Expanding design potential of parks

[foggy pilot]

I like to fence off large areas of the park to allow for many mixed animal herds and simulate ecosystems.

Kinda like going to places like Pennsylvania's Lake Tobias Wildlife park. https://www.laketobias.com/ Big Paddocks with many species big and small.

Though I like the idea of going further. If flyers are allowed later on then perhaps larger bird-like dinosaurs like Jeholornis could wander around like Peacocks or pterosaurs like Dimorphodon that according to Mark Witton may have been more like a "ground bird" pterosaur, only flying when it needed to.

And I believe in addition to this to add to the idea of simulating an ecosystem, I think if or when aquatics are added, they should be able to be added to our rivers and lakes and swamps. Could make a large Solnhofen exhibit with window'd areas to see under the water and above to see Archaeopteryx(somewhere that minis could work despite my dislike of them.) crocs, ichthyosaurs, and Compsognathus.

So flyers outside of "minis" able to free roam and aquatics able to free roam. If a species has to be in a mini, then perhaps a free roaming alternative in the form of similar species like how Para and Charono are put together. If Microraptor is too small to be free roaming then perhaps the larger Changyuraptor can free roam?

Would also like to see locomotives, monorails and older styled trains and jeep tours. Diversity and styles to best fit your parks.

And live prey... Though I have gotten backlash for this one, I will edit my response... perhaps fish, large insects, and rats could be used for smaller predators like Velociraptor and younger megatheropods.

So the ability to have land, sea, and air animals all in one exhibit, locomotives, and live prey... maybe to go with the roaming peacock idea, certain animals have no threat level and thus can wander outside of exhibits.

[foggy pilot]

The pic
Now imagine this if we could put small mosasaurs or Ichthyosaurs alongside.

[foggy pilot]

Imagine giant paludariums with Spinosaurus, crocs, Mosasaurs, fish, and other cool things swimming around in it or grazing its shores or resting on its rocks.

...annoyingly this one idea may serve more as a mini... depending on what they put in it.

But I can see a Carboniferous era Paludarium with early tetrapods, the smaller of the giant arthropods, and fish in it.

Depending on the pterosaurs and birds we see in the future, we could maybe even see flyers in these. Like the idea stated before about Jeholornis-like "ground birds" or short distance flyers like Dimorphodon fluttering around in the swamp or jungle. I think it would be realistic to see such animals free roaming since real zoos seem to have no issue with it. Even the park I showed a link of has peacocks wandering around.

Possibly balaur too... depending on if it is seen as a herbivore or not.

[foggy pilot]

Ways to have free roaming flying pterosaurs.

Candidates for this idea, leaving some even I want out as their size would likely make them Mini exhibit things if considered and leaving out certain species like Pteranodon for the same reasons we don't see Albatrosses in zoos often... due to seeing some animals like storks though, some azhdarchids have been taken into account.

Dimorphodon
Harpactognathus
Dearc
Pterodaustro
Istiodactylus
Zhenyuanopterus
Ludodactylus
Dsungaripterus
Phosphatodraco
Azhdarcho
Tapejara
Caiuajara
Tupandactylus

Ways to keep them put

Special diets: Dsungaripterus, Pterodaustro, and Tapejarids may likely stay put in open exhibits if supplied with Crustaceans or Fruits. If fruit tree species are available in the future, perhaps certain kinds can be planted to promote Tapejarids to move about the exhibit while staying in it. Same can be done for Dsungaripterus with clams and crabs and Pterodaustro with shrimp. Maybe even liven up your swamp exhibit with some crabs and shrimp and watch them wade or dive for them.

Staff care and attention: I recall personalities were planned for in the future and I think this can work well with keeping pterosaurs put... as we are not gonna be releasing them into the wild like we would for condor or kakapo programs where we need puppets and reduce human contact as much as possible, here we can do the opposite. Perhaps some more affectionate pterosaurs may want to stay near their favorite keepers. Could maybe have the bonus of them liking their keepers so much that they can star in live animal shows to promote the parks. Imagine having Dearc soar above the crowd in elaborate swoops and dives or an Azhdarcho standing before the crowd and stretching its wings as it sings with various croaks, hisses, and screeches.

The invisible fence: Pterosaurs can be chipped or collared and the in game border of the usable map can have an invisible fence they cannot pass through. Much like how some owners create such things for their dogs or to a larger scale, the barrier in JW dominion that prevented pterosaurs from bothering planes.

[foggy pilot]

Reason I suggested the above species:

I based the possible scenarios on peacocks, parrots, owls, chickens, whales, albatross, and dogs. Birds involved in this are assumed to not have clipped wings as presented in many wildlife shows I've seen videos of or seen in person.

Albatross and whales are why pteranodon, ornithocheirus, or quetzalcoatlus didn't make the list. Large animals with even larger migratory patterns and home ranges. Personally Ludodactylus might be pushing on this but I believe it's fine as the one exception. I've seen pelicans in zoos before and believe similar care could lead to a happy Ludo... if that's disagreed with, I'll remove it from the list.

Peacocks and chickens were why some like the Tapejarids and Dimorphodon were considered. Diets and possibly short home ranges meaning they may consider the place they have good food and shelter as their spot. Forest dwelling animals like Zhenyuanopterus likely are homebodies too so could stay restriction free.

Owls, parrots, and dogs are why azhdarchids are considered and some extent Ludo too. With enough care and training, it's possible to keep them put. The chip and invisible fence idea possibly serving as an extra measure. Pterosaur intelligence could work in your favor with love and care or work against you.

Many of these ideas could also serve many prehistoric birds well but that list may come later.

[mighty shard]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-yapping-level-today-catastrophic-yapanese-gif-13513208407930173397

[foggy pilot]

....

[foggy pilot]

<@&181496074169614336> is something able to be done about this?

[autumn vale]

Are you serious?

[sacred sage]

tagging the moderators was not needed at all for this

though I will say, @foggy pilot ignore other people posting stuff on your feedback post that is deemed irrelevant, and @mighty shard dont you have something better to do?

[mighty shard]

Not particularly, but point taken I'll keep it to myself going forward

[foggy pilot]

Given my feedback was poorly received in the main chat, I was told to post it in here.

Only I guess to just have it follow me.

[sacred sage]

this is the better place to have it more seen so its all good to post it here

[foggy pilot]

Given the response from staff and Boi, I am guessing most feedback isn't appreciated...

[sacred sage]

what staff?

tagging the server moderators will also tag the developers which for a case like this is not worth the trouble, for the future tag an individual mod

[foggy pilot]

I wasn't aware it would ping devs too, for that I apologize.

Also, I wasn't sure if the "are you serious" comment was directed at me or boi

[golden coral]

This is an underrated post tho cuz I think about this with PZ all of the time

[foggy pilot]

Which part if I may ask?

[golden coral]

the air/water/land enclosures

Like an Amazon enclosure

[foggy pilot]

Hell yeah

[foggy pilot]

Speaking of hell yeah XD

Hell creek enclosure, triceratops running around with some Champsosaurus in the water, maybe a large Avisaurus.

[topaz cedar]

Mixed species exhibits are already possible

Aerials and aquatics aren't confirmed

Vehicles and live feed are interesting suggestions though

[foggy pilot]

Not the kind we're suggesting here.

If Air and Aquatic are done in the future then I believe we should have the ability to mix them with land animals.

Again, like adding ichthyosaurus to a spinosaurus exhibit with pterodactylus.

When other games like JWE2 were coming out, I was excited and thought I could do it there.... You need a bunch of mods and even then it is only illusion nonsense.

Given Spino is a good example of what I hope for, the fact it already can get in and out of water could lead to things like crocs in the future.

So we would already have that land/water connection which to me looks promising.

[golden coral]

Maybe not Ichthyosaurs in a Spino enclosure

Not exactly the best idea there

We need fish that spino won't eat

In terms of pterosaurs either Anhanguera or Afrotapejara

[foggy pilot]

I kept using that since it was part of the concept art.

Maybe small plesiosaurs or early mosasaurs... stuff it lived it

[golden coral]

Realistically speaking anything Mawsonia/Onchopristis sized is seen as prey by a spino

Smaller fish could do

[foggy pilot]

Fair

[foggy pilot]

In light of the idea of balloons and other rides, I propose either trains or multi-wagon safari rides. Snaking across exhibits to get a unique view of the dinosaurs and other prehistoric fauna. Imagine getting apple slices and hand feeding megaloceros from one of these tours.

Could for realism have a few forms of cars and wagons.

Something light and open for traveling through a leallynasaura paddock or for a carnivore exhibit you'd want a design that makes the tour look less like a moving snack tray.

Could build fuctional camera stations and other attractions. Would be cool to get your tour photo at the kiosks.

Functional scratching posts for deinocheirus to sharpen its claws or for a sauropod to rub against.

Sprinklers or geysers.

Special tunnels.

[foggy pilot]

"Phoenix, you've had a strong stance against terrariums. Why are you about to make suggestions for it?"

Because try as I might, things like anurognathus aren't getting in as free roamers. I already got into pterosaurs and some other critters and how they can be free roaming but the phanerozoic has a lot of animals you can't put in paddocks.

If I want small guys in the paddocks, I'd want large heterodontosaurs, hypsilophodon, a hefty sinosauropteryx(if the size checks out, disregard if it doesn't) Minmi, stegorous, kunbarrasaurus, indohyus, phenacodus, and more... basically the Thompson gazelles to the hadrosaur and ceratopsian's wildebeest and Buffalo.

But deep time has more than that and though I'd love to see tiny guys scuttling around, at the end of the day it is a zoo sim and sadly an ecosystem Sim like what a few of us may like(basically pk minus the zoo bits) isn't available.

So... the suggestions.

Very simple aquarium:

The pre-cambrian aquarium, a small aquarium with charnia, dickensonia(Pardon if I got spelling wrong) and other critters from that time.

Cambrian tank:

Anomalocaris, Opabinia, unlike the "place with tank" thing like the precambrian one, this one functions like the in-game aviary, an ancient reef or sand bed or rock garden option as well as what you can have swimming around.

Bigger tank:

Though bigger in size, I'm not suggesting large animals in tanks. This can be for smaller sea scorpions(bigger ones I see free roaming), trilobites, small ammonites, and more, good for many species to be showcased in one tank.

Terrariums for land critters:

Gondwanatheres, Multituberculates, Diadectes, Polyglyphanodontians, Tuatara relatives, Ianthasaurus, carboniferous arthropods, a tank for land animals with many options for biomes.

Aviary add ons:

Anurognathus, Confuciusornis, Meganeura, they mentioned they'd be adding a lot so won't say more here.

[foggy pilot]

Wanted your thoughts here but realized you have been in here before XD

[zinc granite]

https://tenor.com/view/manatee-oof-pout-cute-gif-15094781

[jolly summit]

i mean, its been iterated time and time again that devs aren't going to go out of their way for ecosim features.

for free-range pterosaurs, that's deaths waiting to happen, and clipping wings/setting something like the biosyn system for them is animal abuse imo

[foggy pilot]

For free-range pterosaurs... you're in a setting where you don't have wild individuals.

They are engineered to exist to begin with so I'd imagine you'd have less aggressive, raised by keepers individuals. Species choice would likely matter too since I don't think a Tapejara is gonna try and swallow someone like Quetzalcoatlus may.

And I just enjoy the idea of mixing exhibits together. Like how Gharial and Antelope are housed together sometimes.

Just want more creative ability which is already implied to be allowed via the modular system.

Also it just doesn't make sense to create a zoo building game.... and not include ideas zoos use.

...Let's make a starbucks sim but exclude the pastries... are they the main point? No they aren't coffee... but they add something that still feels like common sense to add.

Eagles are capable of killing us, we even have fossils that show they did.

And yet we have them and great horned owls in raptor shows.

I can see a stage Module with a specific form of staff walking around with a microphone and maybe taking a Microraptor from an aviary for shows.

[fickle nimbus]

for big pterosaurs not added by your suggestion, i think really doesnt matter if they are migratory animals...since we allready have big sauropods in the game which were quite migratory as well, so dont restrain that suggestion, i am advocate for ecosystem builds too since i kinda try to create ecosystems at this stage of the game...i think that more animals in game, the better will game be.

[foggy pilot]

And honestly I love the idea of ecosystem builds.

Some zoos have little safari areas, loads of zoos and parks have mixed exhibits, so I would wanna see that but with flyers and aquatics too.

[fickle nimbus]

why not fishes that spino wont eat? at one point animals will be pray/predators to one and another in the game, it would be stupid for them to not eat eaxh other, from design perspective i say

[fickle nimbus]

idk why but i oftenly compare this game with jpog in the terms of gameplay, even though jw evolution is way closer to an idea of modern jpog, that game being park building game too, encouraged building ecosystems as a part of the gameplay, i dont see why this one wouldnt...

[foggy pilot]

Given the attention to accuracy in the dino designs, the creativity with the modular building, attention to detail to even include fossil plants....

It steers in the ecosystem direction encouraging creativity so much it honestly would be contrary to not go that way.

[fickle nimbus]

i mean 100% realism is not achievable when game development is in question, but something close to ecosystem build is plausible, like, gameplay wise its logical, you wanna show an environment of extinct animals to people in the park, and to some extent it is achievable...

[foggy pilot]

It feels like you go up stairs but for some reason the last step may be too much?

[fickle nimbus]

what do you mind?

[foggy pilot]

??

Pardon?

[fickle nimbus]

i mean are yoe answering to my comment? or you just stating some thoughts

[foggy pilot]

Stating a thought...

Like when aquatics and flyers were introduced in JWE. I was excited and thought I could see Ichthyosaurs in a swamp exhibit with spino, maybe have pteranodons in there... nope.

Water barely came to their ankles and icthyosaurs were basically restricted to the tanks.

Only got 2/3rds of that with mods to set the pterosaurs loose or keep the land animals in the aviary.

[fickle nimbus]

for ecosystem it is exactly like that, i mean look how many research is needed to understand how extant ecosystems work...and extinct ecosystems are far another level, but with this kind of realism it can be achievable

[foggy pilot]

And the creativity can allow it if done right...

[fickle nimbus]

unfortunatelly i didnt play any of jwe games, but i get your frustration...

[fickle nimbus]

exactly

[foggy pilot]

Everything was in a tank or aviary and unless you mod the hell out of it even then it was only illusion.

"Looks like" and "Good enough" has been the trend for so freaking long in some games and I pray PK breaks that. They don't have something like Universal bugging them.

[mighty shard]

Idk about stuff like tanks for aquatics (cause idk if there is really any other route there I just don't see aquatics working in the painted water we have now), but I would find it hard to believe that any sort of aviary for large birds/pterosaurs wouldn't have some sort of "null" variant as the vivariums do

[fickle nimbus]

for now aviaries that enclosure archeopteryx and microraptor have toggle off option for cage shown around that deat tree...i find that really useful when building ecosystems are in case

i hope in next update vivarium would have the same option to toggle off their enclosure, and to easily blend within its environment...although i dont know how it would look with semiaquatic vivarium

[mighty shard]

It will have the same ability

[foggy pilot]

....Thing is here I am suggesting things that AREN'T like the vivariums.

My problem with them is that... ok you put the microraptor branch in a hadrosaur exhibit... they are gonna stay near the branch.

Another "looks like/good enough" thing

[mighty shard]

I mean that's how its gotta be unfortunately

The task of making something that small a full animal with all that entails, is simply too much for a dev team of this size with the funding they have

[foggy pilot]

Well yes.

And for smaller stuff like walk throughs or aviaries, that's fine and dandy. I am not against that.

Just saying for other animals like ichthyosaurs, larger pterosaurs, and dinos, I'd liket to see the ability to have one exhibit have all three without illusion nonsense or "good enough"

[fickle nimbus]

yeah, and also animals cant walk near it since the barrier still exist, only it's invisible when toggled off

[fickle nimbus]

they are working hard, i think as the game progresses, they will achieve more funding than this, and game will get more popular

[mighty shard]

That doesn't really change vivariums at all

And they have gone on record saying that if there is no better way to go about it, the vivarium system will be used as the basis for aquatics and fliers

Trust me, I'd love for it to be far more complex

But just temper your expectations

[foggy pilot]

Given the details they have been discussing I am for those vivariums.

I have no issue with them.

My concern is if or when we get aquatics and flyers is will they be thrown in a box or tank and call it a day Vivariums upscaled?

Or will we be able to do more with them like all their effort so far implies?

Again why run all the way up the stairs only to stop at the last step?

[mighty shard]

Because the last step may be too high to scale

They also aren't running

[foggy pilot]

And yet in the future they might hire someone who can do it?

A donation might come in that boosts things.

[mighty shard]

And Mau's basement could flood and stop PK from developing ever again

A lot of things could happen

But don't start betting on it

[foggy pilot]

This sort of talk is what puts out the fun fire -_-

If you want everything as looping vivariums then go on a mobile app.

People come in here with such enthusiasm for the game only for someone to spout that like they expect the outcome to be poor quality when whats been presented so far is the contrary.

[mighty shard]

I'm not saying to expect poor quality

Not once did I say that

The vivarium system is frankly very exciting, no other zoo game has made a similar system nearly as complex

[fickle nimbus]

i would say it is achievable to have this kind of behaviour, for instance look to subnautica, maybe its not the best comparrison, but it have whole ecosystems that exist in 3d environments

[mighty shard]

They're a different game with a different purpose

[foggy pilot]

"lower/temper your expectations" basically says that.

Every time that has been told to me.

[mighty shard]

If that's how you read it, that's on you ngl

[foggy pilot]

Me: Positive happy view of the game and its future
someone: Lower/Temper your expectations.

every time

How else are you supposed to read that?

[mighty shard]

There's a difference between a positive view and simply expecting unlikely things

[fickle nimbus]

and certain deoths of the water puddle for instance would allow for various aqatics to exist, for that matter aquatics would need the volume category for enclosure rather than area, like terrestrial animals have...

[mighty shard]

Even with a complex aviary/aquatic system I wouldn't expect them to be able to interact

[mighty shard]

As caution

If your expectations are too high, no matter what happens you will ultimately be let down when limitations are set

[foggy pilot]

I shouldn't expect a good zoo builder with elements found in real zoos?

What do you think I should expect? Swamps with plesiosaurs, pterosaurs, and dinosaurs in the same exhibit with loads of creativity and fun to be had.

Or place and forget vivariums all over the place and wonder why on earth I waited for this?

[mighty shard]

Look at the end of the day

Its not unlikely that pterosaurs and such are limited to a vivarium like system, would you rather them not come at all?

I don't think so

I certainly wouldn't

[fickle nimbus]

dont get that comments too personally, these feedbacks are great thing, but we must be aware that this is indie project, although they have freedom, resources are scarse...

thats why everyone says low your expectations,

[foggy pilot]

I'd want them in and be able to do stuff with them.

I forget the Microraptor and Archaeopteryx is even in the game sometimes because they are stuck in the vivariums.

So to me, what good is a pteranodon to me if it's in a box on loop rather than in a nicely designed exhibit? Assume I stick its cliff or whatever it spawns on in a swamp... and it just flies in a circle.

Would be great if they put animatronic modules into the game. A sign with a pterosaur looping around it or a pizza shop with an allosaurus roaring... would be cool.

But not for a large flying or aquatic animal.

[mighty shard]

I mean the vivariums are more complex than that

Or at least will be when they get reworked next update

They have set animations yes

But its not a pure loop

They have several "points of interest" to chose from at any given time to go between

[foggy pilot]

Ah yes, my mistake.

Sometimes they switch to a different loop...

The Freddy robot might say hi instead of hello...

[mighty shard]

Sounds like you just wanna believe what you want so I'll just leave here

[foggy pilot]

You're the guy who put the rude yapping level gif a while back so honestly my expectations of you, given what you presented so far, was low.

You presented something rather unfavorable and thus the expectation upon seeing you again was more of the same.

Is that not how expectations work?

PK has presented high quality so far with lots of attention to detail and care to their product so far.... so I am supposed to expect that to stop?

I have gone to zoos.

They have gharials with flamingos and antelope.

They had iguanas sitting with parrots.

They had flyers, aquatics, and land animals all in the same exhibit.

This is a zoo game but with prehistoric animals.

So if you are telling me to lower my expectations because I expect to see what I have seen in zoos before...

Am I suppose to expect a zoo builder.... that doesn't build zoos? An OK zoo builder that does good enough? Or is the current state with touchups as good as it gets?

Expecting what has be presented so far and advertised then told to lower expectations is both enraging and confusing.

If I was a business trying to get my product off the ground I wouldn't want people telling custormers to lower their expectations, you don't put all that time, man power, and money into something only for some guy on the internet to tell your customers to lower their expectations.

[rocky frost]

That's a lot of words to just say "I want an ecosim".

[foggy pilot]

-_-

I'm not asking for something stupid like dragons or something unrealistic here......

[golden coral]

Not really
I mean a lot of zoos mix different species with different niches

The whole point of this thread (I think) is that we should be able to eventually mix aquariums/aviaries with regular habitats

Which, while not easy to do in game dev standards, should probably have a workaround eventually

I suppose it would be nice if mixing species was more challenging/dynamic

[tough dagger]

Notably none of the images here show the kind of size discrepancy that vivarium species and the vast majority of regular animals will have. I'm legitimately not sure what the issue is besides not liking the fact that vivarium animals specifically will have no true AI, reasons for which have already been explained. Bottom line, you can still mix animals.

[hallow bronze]

who said you couldn't mix stuff

once combat gets added just turn off a bunch of stuff in your sandbox

[zinc granite]

I mean, it's an interesting idea, but it's not something that will be added anytime soon.

and you can mix land creatures, so it is already in-game I guess?

[foggy pilot]

The thing in this topic is the ability to add decently sized pterosaurs, aquatics, and land animals in the same exhibit.

Not vivariums... unless you're using the modular system to make one big enough for a spino....

[zinc kite]

you can use the null options on viviariums to delete the walls, making them blend in with environments of normal habitats

[foggy pilot]

.....I feel the point is getting missed.

I have my opinions on vivariums but I do agree they serve smaller animals better. More power to them. Hell we got their statues, I'd love to see a meganeura aviary.

But what I'm suggesting is the ability to make a nice big lake and put ichthyosaurs, crocs, and plesiosaurs in it and have larger pterosaurs flying around it with hadrosaurs drinking from its shores. Permit our creativity to reach its beautiful peak once flyers and aquatics get in.

"Oh just do this with the vi-"

Though that's a nice idea for a big vivarium with multiple modules in like... a walk in exhibit... not the sort of thing or scale I'm going for here... want things that can explore the exhibit rather than go on 5 different loops in the corner...

[zinc kite]

I feel like you're misrepresenting the new vivarium system a bit, but more importantly we don't even know how pterosaurs or fully aquatic animals are going to be implemented yet. There's not really any indication that those animals would be implemented as anything other than animals with full AI.

[jolly summit]

how, or even if

[foggy pilot]

If they have more than what I think they do so they aren't robotic feeling. Then great, genuinely happy for it.

And true I'm not sure how those two will be added but I hope it is in a way that follows the creativity promoting that has been presented so far.

I personally have the view that I honestly don't see a giant module for quetzalcoatlus or mosasaurus being made... how big would you make that so it can realistically fly around?

Unless you wanna get really ridiculous with the modular system, I see free roaming for larger aquatics snd flyers as the only way.

For those still crazy on vivariums... I can see an anomalocaris tank or mixosaurus aquarium, I gave such suggestions further up.

Just want creative freedom rather than everything be modular... if you scale the vivariums up and if looping animals is easier then why bother with fences, enrichment, shelters, and hatchery if you could just plop a jungle down and spawn a rex... as nice as the modular system is, I don't want it to later become a crutch and solution to all problems.

[zinc kite]

I don't see that being a problem. If an animal can realistically be made with full AI, then it likely will be.

[foggy pilot]

I'm hoping so.

Also for those bugging me about it... I don't want ecosim.

Just want a full safari.

Maybe do story based show and tell stories like the old zoo tycoon 2 days.

Or damn, our own fanfic of a continued prehistoric park

[sweet hemlock]

Yeah, it's honestly just too soon to say how aquatics and flyers will work

Like, the devs aren't even seriously thinking about it yet

Hell, they're not even guaranteed to happen at all

just depends on how well the game performs (and while the forecast is good, best not to bank too hard on the game being successful enough to start making ambitious promises)

Flyers and aquatics being completely freeroam would be ideal, yeah

(though personally, I don't really care for putting full aquatics in painted water- not really great for viewing areas, and not really useful for safaris either, at least given how water works now)

But the fact is- it's fairly easy to make animals move convincingly in a 2-dimensional way. This is how every animal in the game works currently. Adding a 3-dimensional navigation system, and then making it look good, is a whole other can of worms, and certainly a massive undertaking. Like, freeroam flyers would need to be able to navigate in 3 dimensions in a way that believably looks like flight- they can't just stop dead in their tracks, or do a 180, etc. Same with aquatics, broadly speaking

And that's what people mean when they say "temper your expectations" for freeroam flyers/aquatics- because it's not just "PK upholding the same standard it does with all of its features", it's PK doing something it has never even tried to do before, and going way above and beyond. Like, heck, even larger/more well funded development teams can't pull it off.

Not to say it's impossible, but it definitely shouldn't be treated as guaranteed/a given, or that not having it would be an arbitrary, unreasonable decrease in quality by the dev team

And the "expanded vivarium" system is a lot more reasonable of an expectation because it doesn't require that 3d locomotion. Half the point of the system is to implement animals that, for one reason or another, are too complicated to add as conventional ones. This can even include things like giant amphibians, where tadpoles would make reproduction and ontogeny basically impossible to simulate

And even for things like Quetzalcoatlus, you could make them work with an expanded vivarium system. Sure, it would need a gigantic "vivarium" as the default, but having a physical cage around it is optional. You can make it appear that the animal is sitting within a larger enclosure, it just isn't going to fly off outside the "vivarium" space

And plus, like, vivarium system or not they'll need to have cages for flyers somehow, at least as an option. It might sound ridiculous to you, but there would need to be some kind of fence or means to create a big aquarium or aviary, because, surprise surprise, people will want to build those too!

So like, ultimately/TLDR, it's fine to have a lot of confidence in the dev team, but do remember to treat the devs as people, with a finite budget and finite manpower- so they have limits, and things might be harder or more complicated to add than you would think. So it's important to temper one's expectations and not get upset or hostile if they can't pull something off quite like you hoped

[foggy pilot]

Idk if it's still in or not but there was a prefab large dome.

I'm aware you'd still have to contain them. I presented in one of my earlier posts some ideas for that. Training, keeping/making certain species to better contain. I can still see(if the guests are made to react in certain ways) tapejarids with berry feeding stations but maybe be able to wander like peacocks or maybe kept in large exhibits with free roaming animals. Could see Dimorphodon and Coelophysis in a shared exhibit if both species get spots for just them.

And I understand the reasons for the vivariums, I just don't want them to seemingly become a crutch or the only way forward. I see the logic for Amphibians, and I even gave my own suggestions above. I don't see ontogeny working for like... large radiodonts... so a Cambrian reef tank works. Anurognathids I see working fine in a vivarium. Not asking for those to be among the free roamers.

I get mad when people tell me to lower or temper my expectations because all I expect is the same quality and care they've presented so far. I understand they are people. They can only do so much with man power and money but even under those limits... its praise worthy. If the vivariums get compex enough that maybe a grid could happen? Maybe link a few together so one microraptor through programing seemingly has more roaming room. I'd be fine with that, not a true freeroam but could now see it's use in freeroam exhibits rather than spam them and hope it looks good.

I don't expect the efforts of a gaming dev company harassed by universal... they disappointed enough and JWE3 remains to be seen...

My expectations are seemingly high because of what's been presented so far and I believe once it's completed and if(IF I'm not demanding either) they add flyers and aquatics then I see the point of vivariums, would love a Cambrian tank and Anurognathus aviary, but would also want species able to be used in places we terraform and build ourselves outside of the vivariums.

[main depot]

If we get a tracked rides suggestion thread at some point, then calling dibs on trains beforehand.

[foggy pilot]

Personally want an old timey train(though with modules I guess you could just build around the track using module.)

Though I think we might have two? Serpentine one for trains and the other for single things like jeeps.

[frigid warren]

If it's design potential of parks, id like to see terrain stamps with square, circle and triangle to make it easier to add or remove terrain and make even slopes.

[foggy pilot]

Not a bad idea.

[jolly summit]

we do have circle and square already

[frigid warren]

No I mean stamps, not brushes. Stamps would be able to be positioned like structure placement either above or under ground and then when you press the tick it will place or remove terrain

https://youtu.be/aBFHzBCQMeE?si=YSI-OAjpuqqHpqap

[jagged ether]

the stamping is possible in PZ because of the voxel terrain system, if I'm not mistaken. PK lacking such a system means it's impossible to add. I would like there to be an easier way to create slopes, for laying down paths, but that should be addressed before EA anyway

[foggy pilot]

Auto crafting waterfalls too instead of the modular splash effects..... unless I misunderstood and I am confusing that for another game.

[fickle nimbus]

yeah, that irritates me too

[foggy pilot]

Crude drawing, my apologies.

But some ideas for aquatics and how they could work.

Limitations in natural waterways.

and tanks working sorta like a hybrid of vivariums and fence exhibits, autofilling just as it registers as a exhibit.

Not considering them as giant vivariums because I still like the idea of aquatics finding a home in natural landscapes too. Hanging out in lakes with viewing areas as comfortably as they would be in a normal tank.

Limitation being, if one desires a viewing area, you'd need to build a tank and manipulate the terrain and install ramps if you wish for land and semi-aquatics to enjoy the water.

After messing with the vivariums more(and even more once the update is public fully) I may adjust this suggestion/idea more.

If a certain depth limit can't be made.

We could implement barrier reefs, bits of stone, natural barriers to prevent them from beaching.

but land and semi-aquatics can crawl over.

[violet minnow]

Honestly quite a good idea for underwater viewing and aquatic animal implementation

[golden coral]

This should be made as it’s own post

[foggy pilot]

Fair, but also this thread was basically my general idea dumping ground...

that way I am not managing(or spamming) 50 different thread ideas.

[golden coral]

I get that

But

It’s hard to support multiple ideas in just one post

[foggy pilot]

....fair.

You make a valid point.

https://discord.com/channels/173172667623407616/1453021206377791559

[foggy pilot]

Your thoughts in the new thread would be appreciated then.

Thank you for the suggestion so far.