CUB and Core Status Effects

[toxic badge]

OK, now I'm really confused. You want to use CUB and you want the core automation?

I thought you wanted it to be an option to enable it.

[onyx otter]

great, it's something the core should handle and not a module. I hope it will be approved soon.

[sleek mulch]

I think it's CUB for duration and core (or cub) for status effects

[latent hawk]

If I readed the code right, Kristian patch also address duration. That, for me, means that I won't need cub anymore.

But people can be using cub for different things, like changing state icons, and that could (or not) be a problem.

[toxic badge]

It does. It uses turns and startTurn based on the current combat to determine when to disable it.

So the default is 1 turn for Distracted and Vulnerable, which really has a different meaning than how Foundry actually means it, but we just store it there anyway.

We use logic in SwadeCombat to determine when to remove the effect.

[toxic badge]

So, I just modified it to not actually use duration, but to use flags. We'll see if that's acceptable. In general though, don't take anything as any sort of final implementation until it's released publicly. 😆

[dreamy tide]

Kristian, with the addition of even more Active Effects would it make sense to have a separate place on the character sheet to show these items instead of in the Quick Access section? Can they be filtered out of that list? Or at least allow them to be sorted to the bottom?

[toxic badge]

That would be up to Florad. I think he had plans for revamping the Quick Access, but I don't know to what extent or how.

[zinc shale]

It's been on the docket for quite some time now, but it's mostly a space issue.

[toxic badge]

@zinc shale I'm wondering if the ones that match with checkboxes could be omitted from the sheet since having both is somewhat redundant.

[zealous urchin]

I want to use CUB to replace the system status effects since I like my icons better and want to be able to set a duration to properly terminate Active Effects. Now, if SWADE would introduce duration support for AEs, in a way suitable for SWADE (basically something like at the end of actors turn, x rounds later where x is the duration (I think everything ends at the end of the owners turn, Powers and Distracted/Vulnerable do for sure).
If the system introduces that for all Active Effects, everything should be fine.

[zinc shale]

https://gitlab.com/peginc/swade/-/merge_requests/198

[noble briar]

Another point for Cub. You can use cool looking icons.

[zealous urchin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems to only target two defined AEs, not all of them:

This addresses duration of AEs specifically for Distracted and Vulnerable (for now)
🤷‍♂️

[zinc shale]

the text is a bit misleading

duration for ALL active effects is supported

distracted and vulnerable are the ones that come pre-configured with a duration

[zealous urchin]

Okay, perfect. Now I'm excited. 👍

[zinc shale]

@toxic badge can probably explain it a bit more xD

I hope I'm not overpromising

[toxic badge]

So the way this works is it updates the premade status effects in config.ts to include AEs for then that have some flags. The AEs just set the statuses on the actor to true.

The checkboxes on the sheet duct actually set those values to true. They apply the premade AE in config.ts which just creates an AE that sets the value to true

The script also adds the AE to the token document.

When the AE is deleted, it reverts back to the value before it was applied, which in this case is false.

The way duration expiration for Distracted and Vulnerable works is on each turn, it looks at the previous combatant's AEs the flags on it. If it matches certain values, it deletes the AE. This stimulates expiring at the "end of their next turn"

[dreamy tide]

If they get "reapplied" that round does it extend the duration? Like for Wild Attack round after round?

[toxic badge]

I think there's a bit of a misconception here. This doesn't automatically add duration support for all AEs with a duration set. Also, this is currently strictly for the preconfigured status effects shown in the TokenHUD. That excludes general things like Wild Attack.

Foundry core has no logic to handle expiring effects based on duration. That's something the system has to define. Additionally, a turn is any combatant's turn during the round. Add to that the fact that Savage Worlds has some things end at the start of the character's turn and some at the end of the character's turn. Thus we have to write logic for each status effect that you see in the Token HUD that has an autoexpiration based on turn. As support for each status effect is added, we'll add the flags and logic for it to the SwadeCombat class.

We started with autoexpiring Distracted and Vulnerable because they share the same logic and are common enough to provide value to GMs and players. They're also a common sticking point. "Oh! I forgot to remove Distracted!" Shaken is also at the top of the list, but that's more complicated because we want to provide a prompt to roll to Unshake and prompt to spend a Benny if the roll fails. We also need to figure out how to possibly pull up the prompt for the player rather than the GM, but it might just have to be the GM to start with. (This is the same issue with redrawing cards for initiative.)

[latent hawk]

<We also need to figure out how to possibly pull up the prompt for the player rather than the GM>

You can use a chat card, instead of a prompt.

[dreamy tide]

What you're saying makes sense. I wasn't expecting the new changes to automatically understand Wild Attack. But in the case of Wild Attack the character is considered Vulnerable until the following turn. Will the player have to mark themselves Vulnerable after their turn since the system will un-mark them?

[toxic badge]

Even if you mark the character as Vulnerable during their turn, the system will unmark them at the end of their next turn automatically. Applying an AE adds the current combat ID and sets a startRound and startTurn value based on the current combat.

[toxic badge]

That's true, but does it really need to pollute the chat and be available to all users? We don't do that for initiative, and I don't know that we should do that for this either. @zinc shale might have his own thoughts on the matter though.

[latent hawk]

Arr you really asking this to the betterrolls 2 author? 🤣 🤣

I'm clearly not very worried about chat polution when it increases convience.

[karmic grove]

I have a mild preference for chat cards

I also have a 40” 4k screen

These things are not unrelated

[hexed hound]

get Chat Log Scaler and crank that font to skyhigh and feel the pain the rest of us mortals have

[torpid lichen]

I am already amazed by the changes and I can't wait to see what Flo has up his sleeve regarding the Quick Access.

[toxic badge]

Fair!

I guess I want to make sure we leave all that real estate for BR2 to use. 😆

[zealous urchin]

Honestly, for initiative it really should. Asking players which card they want gets really annoying in no time. :D
Anyway, what I'm concerned with is that binding the sheets status checkboxes to the status effects (again) will conflict with CUB. We had that before where then the status is applied twice (once from the system and once by CUB) until FloRad deprecated that feature..

[toxic badge]

I think the preferred solution is to use sockets to prompt the player directly

[winter folio]

If you removed the triggler triggers for those conditions wouldn't that stop them from adding twice?

[zealous urchin]

And only add the one from the system. That's the problem.

[torpid lichen]

That is an interesting point. But actually it is a tradeoff between versatility for people who know how it is done vs. added functionality off the shelf. Plus, not all modules work well with CUB (Token Action HUD comes to mind). Did I get this right? The key feature you are lacking is that you want to modify the look of the status icons?

[zealous urchin]

CUB offers far more than that and is irreplaceable for me. Some of SWIMs functionality relies on it's API as well.
Also why does it have to be a trade-off? Kristian already signaled to be willing to find a solution. And module incompatibility with other modules really is no reason for a system to enforce a incompatibility with a module unless it's a decision of this or that but I don't see this kind of situation here.

[torpid lichen]

Well, I am using CUB myself, that is why I am curious

[toxic badge]

I'm not making any promises 😬

Also, I can't help but think of this. 😆
https://xkcd.com/1172/

xkcd: Workflow

There are probably children out there holding down spacebar to stay warm in the winter! YOUR UPDATE MURDERS CHILDREN.

[zealous urchin]

I get that. But I experience you as pretty thoughtful and willing to find a solution. That's all I could ever hope for. =)

[toxic badge]

We think we found a way for it to not break custom CUB status effects. We're pulling system data from SWADE.statusEffects rather than from CONFIG. That'll leave CONFIG stuff untouched. So when someone sets Shaken from the sheet, that's where it comes from. The token HUD will use CONFIG.

[zinc shale]

yeah we can't prevent people from changing CONFIG.statusEffects

[zealous urchin]

Wait, does that mean that it won't use the custom Shaken status set up in CUB when ticking the Shaken checkbox on the sheet?

[toxic badge]

I'm really starting to hate CUB. Possibly. Ticking the checkbox on the sheet doesn't set the status. It creates an AE that overrides the status.

The thing is, I don't know that we can have synced SEs and support CUB fully, too. I could be wrong, but I'm just not seeing how at the moment.

[toxic badge]

@zinc shale , do you have any thoughts on this? You know CUB better than I do.

[zinc shale]

I really don't

unless CUB can guarantee the IDs match up I will stand firm in our decision

[zealous urchin]

Hm. CUB can be set up to listen to the checkbox being set, so it should be able to set it's status when it it ticked. The only thing that could cause issues would be the AE then. Wouldn't it be possible to deactivate setting the AE then? Like an optional switch or something so that CUB can do it's own AE instead of the system forcing its?

[zinc shale]

Technically possible but I don't think we're going to do that

[winter folio]

Would disabling the AE on CUB and using the system AE (so CUB is a visual reminder) have the same result.

[zealous urchin]

Can't be configured in CUB (yet) I think. It could work but I don't want to loose that functionality because it's very handy for things like berserk.

[zealous urchin]

Okay, so the update messed CUB up completely it seems. We don't even get duplicate AEs. The system seems to force its own AE and status icon. Unfortunate.
I also don't quite get why a new tab Expiration was added instead of using the default Duration but okay.
I'm sure you did what you could to support CUB but apparently there was no way.

[zinc shale]

there was indeed no way. I even checked with errational