Crucible Chapter 1 Feedback

[rapid night]

A dedicated thread for discussion about the Crucible system and game balance in test encounters of Chapter 1.

[ivory venture]

🤘🏿👽🤘🏿

[oblique sphinx]

Should the Journal Enrichers already be implemented here?

[rapid night]

Ahh this is a leftover thing. Knowledge: Moons is replaced by Knowledge: Cosmology. This needs to be adjusted to use “cosmology” as the knowledge ID not “moons”

[[/knowledge cosmology]]

Thanks!

[nimble musk]

Quality of life issue: played some of the encounters and thought things were broken because I didn't realize I had to click on the word strike instead of the whole box or the small avatar. Also may be wrong but I didn't see an action counter on the token or a way to take back actions (like I moved too much or started some actions and realized I wanted another action instead).
I liked the actions and arcane customization.

[rapid night]

Thanks for the feedback! Can you clarify for me what you mean by the "whole box" when you're talking about "Strike"?

I didn't see an action counter on the token

There are two action counters, 1 in the token bars there are little yellow pips which track the number of actions available and secondly on the character sheet main tab top-center.

a way to take back actions
Crucible has a "Reverse" system for actions in the chat log, you can right-click on a confirmed action and click reverse to undo it!

[nimble musk]

This is a snip of my hovering over the action. A pop-up box appears. It seemed more intuitive to click on the icon next to the word strike rather than the word strike (at least for me)

I found reverse thank you.

I see the action pips on the character sheet but I am not sure I know what a token bar is.. not seeing it from the token... (I usually have token action hud module running so I don't have to open the character sheet)

anyways...just my two cents.

[rapid night]

aah, you need to turn on token HP bars. Set bar 1 to health and bar 2 to morale

[thin sun]

Hey @rapid night I got a chance to let my players do some character creation and testing for Crucible. This was a party of 4 and we tested the Drakeling combat first. First thing I want to say is that the system recieved overwhelmingly positive reception from the group. They are almost strictly 5e players but all of the work you've done has REALLY sold them on the system. Before I talk about the combat here were some things that they mentioned that they really liked:

1. They really enjoy the action system especially when compared to lower level 5th edition play which can be fairly one-note or muted with only 1 attack or spell being cast on a turn. They really enjoyed having multiple ways to spend their Action Points. There was a variety of builds/playstyles being tested, from a traditional 2 handed weapon warrior build, to a "White Mage" type healer, and even a summoner!
2. They really enjoy initiative being rerolled every round since it keeps the combat changing constantly. They also like that their leftover action points are converted to boons for that next initiative roll.
3. The boons and banes system also really resonated with them as well. One of our main critcisms of 5th edition is that Advantage and Disadvantage just completely cancel out regardless of how many "instances" you might have. They really liked how boons and banes interact with the 3d8 system you have devised.
4. They really like the Health and Morale HP pools as well as the consumables you designed, with the basic Elixir but also the Tonic.
5. They really enjoy the 1 ft grids and how percise movement is.

With the combat it was a lot of fun to run! It lasted 4 rounds which was about how long it lasted when I first ran it for this group in 5th edition. It definetly got spicy here and there and I noticed the Drakelings had a lot more opportunities to land hits which I really liked, even if they were glancing blows. First thing I noticed is that if a player was missing hit points that the drakelings still had banes to their rolls against that target, and I couldn't remove those banes or their blinded condition(this could be my fault and I just missed something). Their Pouncing Strike is also very cool and put several players in pretty dangerous situations. My question about the Pouncing Strike is that if its used from a higher elevation(which seems to be what you want to do) would the Drakeling take fall damage(is there even fall damage rules yet?). Also since these creatures fight to the death as stated in the event, what does "Broken" morale look like for them? Finally, one of my players had the Stasis Rune which they attacked the Drakeling with and I thought "okay bludgeoning damage that makes sense" and then it did bludgeoning damage to morale? I have no opinions on that from a game design perspective but it was slightly jarring to deal bludgeoning morale damage. Overall this fight resulted in some wounds sustained but it was so much fun to run.

Also I liked that their acid spit used focus because when I had a broken drakeling try to retreat and acid spit I realized too late that I actually couldn't do that which I thought was really cool.

[rapid night]

Thank you @thin sun and friends for providing this feedback, it's very motivating to hear. There's so much work that's been done it's great to hear that the first impression paid off. At the same time there is so much still yet to do, so getting this kind of feedback is really encouraging to keep going. ❤️

Please pass my thanks to your friends for trying it out.

[rapid geyser]

This is really lovely to hear that the system itself is such a great experience. thank you for the feedback @thin sun ❤️

[oblique sphinx]

Should the Enricher Tooltip show the values of the actors?

[oblique sphinx]

As Addition to this one: there is no surprised condition i could find in the crucible rules.

I dont know if this is intended: i cant attack this target because its to far away. I think its because of the 20ft height the dragon is on.

A hidden Token is still showing the chat cards to the player characters, so they can see what an invisible creature is doing.

I cant click on a combatant in the combat tracker to jump to the corresponding token.
Nevermind, reloading the combat fixed it.

The Players cant climb up to the drakelings, because of the constrained movement. The GM hast to do it for them.

I think this is more Ember/Foundry related, because we had the same problem in my DnD group, but because i am testing crucible now, i leave it here:
Sometimes a user has the problem, that foundry seems to be running normal. But the Dice from DSN and the chat card results dont show up. Its like if they are somehow disconnected from foundry, but moving the token is still synced.
In this case i was connected with my local running foundry with 2 Browser Windows. So no network issue i think.

Reloading with f5 is solving the problem. And the chat cards which werent visible are back again.

The Shield Bash is causing damage twice.

[oblique sphinx]

I was also thinking about the Pouncing Strike. I think it would be useful to use the jump movement. Climbing from the cliff doesnt make sense.
But how should the jump movement work if the drakeling jumps down?

Since they are blind and have always 2 boons if the target isnt wounded, i wouldnt let them get fall damage if they hit.

[oblique sphinx]

Players can delete other actors from the group actor, but they can't add theyr actors back to the group again.

[oblique sphinx]

I have testet 2 fights with 4 player characters level 1 (i played with myself!):
Sickly Drakelings and Good Ooze, Bad Ooze

Both where very fast over. I defeated the enemys in 2-3 Rounds. The Heroes took damage too, but noch so much. Only 1 was wounded.
Espeacially the drakelings felt to easy, but i think this was because i couldnt get rid of the blinded condition.

But like the first playtest, the combat felt so good and dynamic because of the action economy. I really like how the combat is in crucible.

[soft dagger]

Yes, and for me it does (will double check it does for that one specifically).
As for surprised, Atro confirmed for crucible it should be "unaware"

[oblique sphinx]

For me it works when i first hover over one of the enrichers, but when i hover over another one, it seems somehow broken.

[soft dagger]

Hmm curious. Will test with that too and see if I can narrow it down

[rapid night]

Thanks for all the feedback @oblique sphinx , appreciated

[thin sun]

Yeah as a general rule of thumb since my experience with TTRPGs is "specific trumps general" rule just having that in the ability itself would clarify to a GM that if the Drakeling uses this ability they take no fall damage if they hit.

[oblique sphinx]

Can these links be made selectable so that I can copy them when copying and translating?

[oblique sphinx]

Will there be some resting rules for wounds and Madness in the next update?

The Kiska Lineage gives the Player the shadow rune. But what if he doesnt have presence 2?
It looks like he cant use the rune. Is this intended?

[rapid night]

resting rules are definitely needed soon. I don't know whether it will be the very next update or not, but maybe.

[rapid night]

Those prerequisites should be ignored even if you don't meet the presence requirement.

might be a bug.

[oblique sphinx]

No Problem, we will improvise them until then 😊

[rapid night]

I will need to test and balance some different rulings for what recovery looks like, but my suggestion as informal rules to go with for now is that you reduce Wounds and Madness by an amount equal to your character level when taking a long rest.

[oblique sphinx]

Should i raise a ticket if so?

[oblique sphinx]

Cool thanks for that advice, we will test that out.

[rapid night]

that might scale too much in favor of high-level characters - I think that informal rule should be fine for low-level play but something a bit more carefully balanced will be needed.

[oblique sphinx]

Thanks for the insight of your design process, well appreciated 🙂

[oblique sphinx]

This is not a bug, he can use the shadow rune .👍

But thats maybe a but, he cant see the active rune in the talent tree:

[oblique sphinx]

The Rolls dont react on the party and the party members yet.

[oblique sphinx]

We played yesterday and startet a fight against the playtest 1 enemies and then we started the first ember event. So here is our first feedback from our round:

• overall the fight run very smooth and most of the mechanics where really well automated.
• the mix between ember and crucible is so cool, we cant wait to dig in deeper into this.
• overall: keep going, this will be so freaking cool in the future to run an crucible/ember game

Here are some gameplay questions which come up:
Reach 2, Flanking and Engagement/Disengagement

• The Step gesture has as only cost double movement cost. The Reactive Strike costs WEAPON Action Points -1 plus 1 Fokus.
• This was a bit unfair for the "tank" in our fight. It wasnt possible to hold the enemies as close combat fighter.
• And what is with reach 2 in this cases? How does Reach work in terms of flanking, engagement and disengagement.
  Use of Ranged Weapon in closed combat:
• against the melee opponent?
• against other targets outside of the closed combat?
• is flanking with ranged weapon (in melee range) possible?

[rapid night]

Thanks for the notes @oblique sphinx good feedback. Definitely some rough edges you highlight to fill out and make work better.

So much still to do, we keep going!

[oblique sphinx]

Is there already a fix I can apply manuallx for the blinded condition of the drakelings?
Our fight is next week 😅

[rapid night]

there will be a patch going out, but I don't know whether it will be in time. Unfortunately it's not a simple change - had to reorganize several aspects of the action workflow

[oblique sphinx]

Okay, then i will give them 2 boons 🙂
Thanks for the fast answer.

[soft dagger]

A fix I did locally was to change the action hook code on Blood Sense from delete action.usage.banes.blind to delete rollData.banes.blind - that seemed to work forme as a hacky patch

[rapid night]

As a patch, that’s a good suggestion!

[oblique sphinx]

In the Overview Page are the wrong drakelings linked. These have to be the mutated Versions.

[oblique sphinx]

Thank you so much ❤️

[rapid night]

Good catch thank you!

[oblique sphinx]

We had our round yesterday and here is the feedback we collected during the first 4 events of chapter 1:

• the chatcards are hard to follow who made the check and for what was the check. What we think needs to be improved:
  • the skill should be bolt so its easier to see what check was made
  • the char "portrait" should be displayed
  • the players color could be implemented for easier separation.
• The Partysheet could be improved by adding some values:
  • wounds
  • madness
  • passive awareness
• the condition of the pallid drakelings should be hidden for the players.
  • generally i think that the players shouldnt see all conditions on the enemies

[rapid night]

Thanks for the feedback Tom, some of these can be easily accomplished but others will have to wait for later

[ornate citrus]

Bit of a weird bug I've got going with one of my player characters. The talent "Regulated Rhythm" that is part of Kivahr lineage seems to proc ever turn. I'm assuming this is supposed to be a triggered action, not just a passive that happens every turn in combat.

Don't suppose there's any poking around I could do to see about identifying the root cause of this? It also isn't showing in the combat log that it's happening, but we did a bit of testing and confirmed the health / focus loss was in line with the description.

I would expect to find the effect and length in the effects tab on the player character, but it is not showing there at all.

[rapid night]

Hmm interesting. It’s supposed to be a triggered action that creates an active effect with a duration. Then the resource balancing should be automatic every turn while that effect is active

[ornate citrus]

For sure, that is what I assumed. Curiously, even removing the trait from the actor's kivahr lineage, it continues to happen every round, costing HP/Morale and raising the other respectively.

[rapid night]

I wonder if there is an active effect present that just isn’t displaying properly

[ornate citrus]

Happy to poke some commands into the terminal if you have any that might shed some light.

[rapid night]

Can do in about 5m

[rapid night]

Please try the following:

const actor = game.actors.getName("Exact Actor Name Here");
console.log(actor.effects);
console.log(actor.effects.invalidDocumentIds);

check if there are any effects applied to the actor (or invalid effects)

[ornate citrus]

Did this and both actor.effects and actor.effects.invalid returned undefined.

which would make sense in the current scene as the actor has none

at least in the effects tab

[rapid night]

they should definitely not be undefined

[ornate citrus]

Okay, I might be uncertain where best to be checking then. This is what I see when I poke around in the actor data.

[rapid night]

Sorry, should look like this, and should be console.log(actor.effects.invalidDocumentIds)

[rapid night]

hmm, yeah okay

the token that is placed in the scene, is it linked or unlinked to this base actor?

[rapid night]

What do you get when you:

1. Control the Token in question
2. console.log(_token.actor.effects)

[rapid night]

hmm yeah okay

I'm not sure then I'll have to debug this more thoroughly

thanks for the report

[ornate citrus]

No problem, enjoying Crucible lots with my group and happy to be involved in the polishing process. Can do any more poking around as needed.

[rapid night]

aah yeah okay I see the problem

Will have to wait until the next patch to be fixed I'm afraid

[ornate citrus]

All good! Glad it's been found

[oblique sphinx]

The Request Rolls still dont work? I am clicking on the group icon and nothing happens.

And also the Language Tooltips dont work for me.

Hmm, could it be that the main party isnt properly configured in my round? Because i also cant find the party members in the hazards.

But the Characters are all part of the party.

[rapid night]

Hmm... does it work if you manually add actors to the roll? Maybe the bug is just the quick button to add the whole party? This is probably related to your next problem actually.

@oblique sphinx your party should have been auto-flagged as the primary party, but maybe somehow it wasn't. Go to system settings and assign your group as the "Primary Adventuring Party"

[oblique sphinx]

That was the problem, thanks so much ❤️

[white ore]

the Shattered Expectations event does not seem to be converted to Crucible. has you roll a Constitution save and also i think the damage would be real low for crucible

[rapid night]

┌──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
│                                                          │
│ Logged all feedback or issues up to this point.          │
│                                                          │
└──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

[oblique sphinx]

I have a problem with the milestones.
The players earned 1 milestone before the system was implemented that they can get them from the journals.
Now i gave them 2 from the quests they already finished.

The Characters show 3 milestone points and the group 2. Can i somehow fix this? The players have 2 milestone points.

[white ore]

yeah, there's no convenient way to mess with an actor's milestones that i know of. that's something i'd like ideally too.

however in your particular scenario, you actually can even out their milestones by manually setting their level down to 1 and then back up again to 2.

this only works when the number of milestones you want is the exact amount you need for a certain level (or one fewer, by going higher than the desired level and then back down to that level)

[sonic frigate]

In the standalone quest Shattered Expectations, the roll table Kaleidoscope Crystal Effects text itself still references Lesser Restoration and Dispel Magic (dnd5e spells)