Crappy and Weird Under Extrusion Issues | 3D Printing | Page 1

left harness Dec 8, 2024, 9:01 PM

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Ok starting a help forum post for this because I keep running into issues and need a place to collect them all so I don't have to explain the background every time. Swapped the nozzle two days ago after struggling with weird extrusions on the last. Cleaned out the hotend, checked extruder gears, leveled bed, checked z offset, cleaned the nozzle as best as I could and I still get these weird thin extrusions. Any ideas?

crisp ventureBOT Dec 8, 2024, 9:01 PM

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left harness Ok starting a help forum post for this because I keep running into issues and ne...

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AI Help

It sounds like you've done a lot of troubleshooting already, which is great! When you're still experiencing thin extrusions after cleaning the hotend, checking the extruder gears, leveling the bed, and adjusting the z offset, it could be an issue with the filament itself. Make sure the filament diameter matches the settings in your slicer software and that the filament is not tangled or stuck. Also, check the temperature settings to ensure the filament is extruding at the correct temperature. If the issue persists, you may want to try a different brand or type of filament.

placid kiln Dec 8, 2024, 9:14 PM

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did you have this on the old nozzle?

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it might be esteps

pearl breach Dec 8, 2024, 9:26 PM

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Tighten the filament tensioner maybe?

crisp ventureBOT Dec 8, 2024, 11:27 PM

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left harness Dec 9, 2024, 8:47 AM

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placid kiln did you have this on the old nozzle?

No, I had something else

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Here are some pics from the last cht clone nozzle

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 8:50 AM

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pearl breach Tighten the filament tensioner maybe?

Thing is when I set it to extrude (without doing a print) what comes out of the nozzle seems solid and instant

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 8:51 AM

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placid kiln it might be esteps

I have calibrated E steps about 7-8 months ago

pearl breach Dec 9, 2024, 9:02 AM

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left harness Thing is when I set it to extrude (without doing a print) what comes out of the ...

Hmm thats interesting...
So then whats happening between there and the build plate..... 🤔

Does it do with a different filament?

What do the power connections look like?

I've not seen the problem before sorry.

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 10:13 AM

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Power seems fine, temps are all good (did PID tuning a while back so yeah)

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 10:14 AM

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pearl breach Hmm thats interesting... So then whats happening between there and the build pla...

Yeah I haven't seen it before either... it's pretty weird

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I haven't tried a new filament on this nozzle though, probably should

final mango Dec 9, 2024, 12:04 PM

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left harness Ok starting a help forum post for this because I keep running into issues and ne...

what temp and material? Have you cleaned the bed with warm soapy water? Have you done a cold pull? Have you checked extruder tension?

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Have you double checked slicer settings?

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 12:39 PM

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final mango what temp and material? Have you cleaned the bed with warm soapy water? Have you...

I have cleaned the bed, Polymaker PLA at 215C for the nozzle and 65 C for the bed, printing on a textured PEI plate, have done a coldpull, but I have not checked the extruder tension

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 12:40 PM

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placid kiln it might be esteps

Did e-steps again (cold, not warm) and they are fine

final mango Dec 9, 2024, 12:42 PM

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left harness I have cleaned the bed, Polymaker PLA at 215C for the nozzle and 65 C for the be...

👍 i can only think of extruder tension, so check that and if it doesnt work lmk and i'll invest a little more thought into this

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 12:50 PM

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final mango 👍 i can only think of extruder tension, so check that and if it doesnt work lmk...

Increasing it or decreasing it?

final mango Dec 9, 2024, 12:52 PM

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left harness Increasing it or decreasing it?

increasing it

crisp ventureBOT Dec 9, 2024, 2:56 PM

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left harness Dec 9, 2024, 3:02 PM

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I did increase the tension... Still getting weird extrusions during prints

left harness Dec 9, 2024, 3:34 PM

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So it's like the nozzle extrudes too thin and too slow, but what's weird is that it's only when printing

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It's most certainly not the nozzle as I unclogyrd it twice and did two coldpulls, which came out perfect

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Crappy and Weird Under Extrusion Issues

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Could it be flow rate/flow related?

crisp ventureBOT Dec 9, 2024, 5:51 PM

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left harness Dec 9, 2024, 6:09 PM

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OK I'm so confused right now..

crisp ventureBOT Dec 9, 2024, 8:11 PM

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pearl breach Dec 9, 2024, 10:19 PM

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left harness Could it be flow rate/flow related?

https://www.raise3d.com/academy/how-to-improve-printing-accuracy-a-look-at-extrusion-width/

According to this, if it's the flow rate, you should be getting under or over extrusion......

Raise3D: Reliable, Industrial Grade 3D Printer

How to Improve Printing Accuracy? A Look at Extrusion Width

crisp ventureBOT Dec 10, 2024, 12:21 AM

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left harness Dec 16, 2024, 4:35 PM

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Ok got a new nozzle...

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And here's the first result...

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Not good

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Still same weird scars

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 4:53 PM

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@dull scroll sorry for the ping, but I talked to you about a week ago about this and both you and Derra suggested that it might be a nozzle clog problem. I got a new one, and I still have the same weird diagonal scars. Any ideas?

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I also lowered flow back to 1 as you suggested

crisp ventureBOT Dec 16, 2024, 7:00 PM

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sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:24 PM

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left harness

would guess there is some deeper mechanical issue going on. like the picture above that has some weird pattern where some parts have ok Zoffset but others are to far away

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:24 PM

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sudden reef would guess there is some deeper mechanical issue going on. like the picture abo...

Yup

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Exactly

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:25 PM

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would start by checking if the motion system is correctly assembled and tensioned

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:25 PM

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From what I can see, in those parts it doesn't extrude, or very slowly, which causes it to crimp up on the edges

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Motion system is fine. No grinding, no slipping from what I can tell

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Tensioned the belts

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:25 PM

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there has to be something off

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:25 PM

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It's a hotend issue I think...

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As I said, the extrusion during the print is weird

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:25 PM

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like the zoffset changes by just direction changes

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:25 PM

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oh wait

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no it's not that

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:26 PM

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left harness And here's the first result...

I change the z offset in the upper corner of this pic

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:26 PM

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why the stripes in the middle?

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:26 PM

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left harness

And here in the upper left corner it's not the z offset, but rather weird extrusion as I said

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:27 PM

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there are a few of the stripes that adhere properly

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:27 PM

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yeah

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:27 PM

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then it starts to not adhere

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:27 PM

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It's that + weird/slow extrusion

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:27 PM

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the perimeter extrusions looks like the zoffset is to high

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:27 PM

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mostly the latter from what I can tell visually

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I can guarantee it's not z offset. Trust me I've been fiddling with it for a week

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:27 PM

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would guess that the Y axis Vslot wheels might be not properly tightened

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:28 PM

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Oh

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How would I go about tightening those? is there a guide or something

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:28 PM

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the same as the others

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one side has excentric nuts

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?vslot

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hmm

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we have a command for that

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but god knows how its called

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:28 PM

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yeah I'll run in it #bot-commands

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I'll find it

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:29 PM

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would check all the vslot wheels to make sure they are properly tightened

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:29 PM

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But the problem with what you are suggesting is that it still does not explain why the extruded distance when the bowden is removed is fine while when it's hot it's not fine

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So like under extrusion, but only when using the hotend

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:29 PM

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do you notice it stripping the filament?

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is there some powder on the extruder?

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:30 PM

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No

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I tested for that to see if the idler tension is to high

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it's not

crisp ventureBOT Dec 16, 2024, 7:30 PM

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left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:30 PM

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it's like in the first pic

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:30 PM

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if the vslot wheels are not correctly tensioned its possible that the toolhead slops to much, blocking the nozzle

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:31 PM

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don't think so... I watched it closely and it doesn't really look like it

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:31 PM

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left harness I tested for that to see if the idler tension is to high

that extruder can strip filament rather easy, even with correct tension

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:31 PM

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Yeah I've seen that online before

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not in my case though

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:31 PM

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left harness don't think so... I watched it closely and it doesn't really look like it

check it, better than thinking its correct

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:31 PM

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Hold on a sec, I'll check it rn

crisp ventureBOT Dec 16, 2024, 7:32 PM

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V Rollers
Vslot rollers are on most of the popular budget printers such as the ender 3 and other v-slot based printers. Your printer should have come with a wrench that is able to adjust the eccentric nut that increases the tension of the wheels. Usually on a plate with 3 wheels, only one can be tensioned, and on a plate with 4 wheels (usually the Y carriage) there are two wheels that can be tensioned, you can see which ones need to be tensioned by looking for eccentric nuts (Labeled in drawing below).

Vslot rollers should be tensioned and checked as a part of your frame check before you fire up your 3d printer. They should be tightened until you are able to turn the wheels with your fingers with a little friction, but not too tight that they are too hard to turn at all (failure to do so will result in quicker wear and tear of your Vslot wheels, certain printing artifacts and excess strain on the stepper motors ).

Make sure to check that all your Vslot plates and carriages are free from wobble along the X, Y and Z axis wherever your printer uses Vslot rollers. You should check these regularly to clean them of dust and to see if the rubber is worn, if so, they should be replaced with new ones.

Example of how to tension wheels

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:32 PM

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this is the command

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:35 PM

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Y and hotend rollers are both tight as a fiddle

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So it's not that @sudden reef

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:37 PM

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bed springs properly pretensioned?

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:37 PM

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Should I try upping flow to like 120%?

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:37 PM

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sudden reef bed springs properly pretensioned?

Yup

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And bed is leveled

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:37 PM

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there is something clearly off. not sure whats causing it

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increasing the EM to 120% is just ignoring the issue, not fixing it

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:38 PM

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True I guess

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My problem is I can't find the issue...

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:38 PM

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its pla right?
what are the hotend temperatures and first layer speed

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:38 PM

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I'll try and clean the nozzle again and increase flow to 110% and see what happens...

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:39 PM

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sudden reef its pla right? what are the hotend temperatures and first layer speed

Yeah polymaker pla, on a textured PEI sheet

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:39 PM

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also what filament manufacturer, possible its a crappy one

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:39 PM

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No it's decent

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Have excellent prints with the spools I'm using

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and I tried multiple spools, so it's not the filament

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:39 PM

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sudden reef its pla right? what are the hotend temperatures and first layer speed

215 Hotend temp

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:39 PM

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temperatures and speeds would be still important

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:40 PM

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15 mm/s first layer speed

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and 20 mm/s first layer infill

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:41 PM

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thats fine

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:41 PM

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haven't messed with the defaults

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Yeah

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:41 PM

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0.4mm nozzle right?

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:41 PM

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yup

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:41 PM

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is it properly installed? possible its leaking causing the extrusion issues

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:41 PM

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New one. Just bought it, installed it two hours ago

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I'll double check, but yeah I tightened it pretty good

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:42 PM

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changed something on the hotend? like a new fanshroud

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:44 PM

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no, it's just that my silicone shroud broke

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and yeah nozzle is fine, just checked

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no leaks, tight fit, etc.

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Sorry silicone sock. But from what I've read it doesn't matter

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:44 PM

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im running out of ideas

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yea the sock is mostly thermal insulation

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:44 PM

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I have another new nozzle, I could try changing it again

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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its probably not nozzle related

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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I definitely know it has at least something to do with the hotend

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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tried to babystep it down a bit?

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just to see what happens?

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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Babystep? as in z offset?

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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yea

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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yeah I did that

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doesn't work

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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what happened?

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:45 PM

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like it does, which is why some parts of my print looked fine as you said, but the rest just doesn't work

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extrusion wise I mean

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I'll change the nozzle and adjust z offset again, maybe something new pops up. If it does, do you mind if I ping you in like 30 min?

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:47 PM

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the initial picture does looks like the zoffset where to high

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im probably not aviable in 30 mins

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:47 PM

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sudden reef the initial picture does looks like the zoffset where to high

That's from a week ago. Another nozzle.

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jammed one I think

sudden reef Dec 16, 2024, 7:47 PM

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doesnt change that there is not enough squish

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 7:48 PM

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Yeah probably

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ok I'll babystep it again and see what happens

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I'll post the results here, and if you have time later on I'd appreciate it if you could take a look

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Thanks for all your help so far though!

left harness Dec 16, 2024, 8:41 PM

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Same issues

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tried babystepping the nozzle

crisp ventureBOT Dec 16, 2024, 10:45 PM

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left harness Dec 17, 2024, 8:01 AM

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Ok so checked again, and I think I am having heatblock issues

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The nozzle was not screwed in fully, and the heatblock is at a slight angle

#Crappy and Weird Under Extrusion Issues