(dead thread) Zandr 3

[rigid mason]

but two wires in the same cable that are not interchangeable should NOT be the same COLOR, CREALITY

[dreamy mulch]

125 is still cable management lmao

[rigid mason]

i did that with the spool on top

[rigid mason]

lol i gotta tune PA badd

[rigid mason]

endstop mount designed and printed

nice and secure now

my extrusion is looking quite inconsistent on prints

that's interesting

diagonal-ish vfas

this has to be extruder related, right? or it wouldn't be happening so evenly along all axes

[mighty glacier]

think so, check the gears

[rigid mason]

i disassembled the extruder and everything looks fine in there

didn't get up-close and personal though

[mighty glacier]

maybe wiggly connector?

[rigid mason]

there is no connector on the E motor

[icy hull]

non-round bearings?

[rigid mason]

in the extruder?

idk, they look like circles to me.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

maybe my ptfe tube is too short?

[rigid mason]

super bummed i lost my old cad files

[rigid mason]

but drawing a gt2 profile accurately from its drawing makes me feel like a genius

[dreamy mulch]

Ngl I just draw belt path

.38 one side 1 mm on the other

Hit thin extrude

[rigid mason]

it appears i forgot to make sure my stepper and extruder meshed

rookie mistake

and the current print is coming out so clean i'm almost mad 😭

[rigid mason]

put the brass 0.4 in for some detailed prints

changing nozzles is definitely a pain

[rigid mason]

how do i attach the belt to the x carriage

what is the best way

my home-grown idea of "just squeeze it" isn't very good

[tender ocean]

You can either squeeze with a matching locking interface (so the teeth have grooves to go into)
Or
Make a loop. Teeth to teeth and then squeeze them together, use the loop to attach it.

Either method will work.

[rigid mason]

is that screw going through the belt?

nvm i can't read

i'm doing something close to the 2nd i think
i suppose i should test it more properly

[tender ocean]

You could but that's just an example, generally, I've heard it's not recommended, especially when it comes to belts that are only 6 mm wide (no meat left)

[slow palm]

Something like this also works great

I'm pulling 100N on it right now with no issues

[rigid mason]

what is that exactly

[slow palm]

It's a wedge

I use it in my tensioner

[rigid mason]

can i have it

[slow palm]

This is for X right?

[rigid mason]

yes

[slow palm]

Hmm there's probably a better way to go about it for X

[rigid mason]

thank you

[slow palm]

Actually, that might be an older version. I'm just gonna link the onshape

[slow palm]

Honestly, I just bolt on a "clamp"

[rigid mason]

?

[slow palm]

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/7d1e1c9f03629db48e8db3d1/w/f92eb893a102a281200a6c4c/e/e7591d80428f99d995f04d03

[rigid mason]

do you mean for this to require an account

[slow palm]

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/7d1e1c9f03629db48e8db3d1/w/f92eb893a102a281200a6c4c/e/e7591d80428f99d995f04d03

What about now

[rigid mason]

still does

[slow palm]

I guess it just be like that🤷

[rigid mason]

ack

i can access the endex onshape

this one

[rigid mason]

i think i'm going to try to build a protoxtruder

i'm getting concerning behavior from this metal hgx

is it normal for moving the gear to be so difficult?

[rigid mason]

i'm paranoid i messed something up reassembling it the other day

[keen gale]

I mean the stepper has a certain amount of holding torque when not powered

It shouldn’t be HARD to rotate

From the video it seems like you’re applying a good amount of force though so maybe you’ve got it overtightened

And the extra force is from it compressing the filament too much

[wanton quail]

Belt tensioning

To have proper belt operation it needs to be operating under tension according to specification.

Most printers use GT2 belts and this'll be reference point here. For Gates GT2 6mm wide the operating tension is 30±5N.

To achieve that, we use tensioners to pull the belt tight.
To measure belt tension we can use a phone with Spectroid app or other audio spectral analyzer. Then proceed with hte following steps:

• start the app and zoom in using 2 fingers to show the range from 0 to ~200Hz
• Put the phone microphone next to the middle of belt section and pluck the belt like a string
• Observe the peaks showing on the app. The peak with the lowest frequency is the one you're looking for
• If frequency is too low, pull the belt tighter. You can shorten the belt span (distance between 2 contact points on which you're plucking the belt and measuring frequency) if expected frequency is below 100Hz

To calculate required frequency use
?belt_freq [belt span in m] [belt width in mm if you're using different than 6mm].
This will show the range of frequencies that you should be in.

To check tension based on frequency, use
?belt_tension [frequency in Hz] [belt span in m] [width in mm if other than 6mm]

WARNING: Not all printers are meant to handle the tension like this and due to this belt tension can cause parts to bend or stepper shafts to break. Proceed with caution.

?tensioning requested by: kolman2000#0

[keen gale]

Damn it wrong command

[wanton quail]

?idlertension requested by: kolman2000#0

[keen gale]

I’d imagine something like that would probably make things not move smoothly

[slow palm]

Kinda looks like you missed a bearing

[rigid mason]

when i recorded that there was no filament inside

[rigid mason]

i checked a lot of times but i guess i'll check again

if i lost one somehow the ones from my bmg should fit

[slow palm]

It won't

[rigid mason]

:/

[slow palm]

Bmg uses 5mn shaft, hgx use 3mm

[rigid mason]

how many bearings are there supposed to be

[slow palm]

There are two mr63zz ball bearings holding the reduction gear in, and two needle bearings, one in each drive gear

[rigid mason]

i counted 3 ball bearings i think

[slow palm]

There are 4....

[rigid mason]

and 2 needle bearings

[slow palm]

Pretty sure only 2 ball bearings

[rigid mason]

now you have me doubting myself 😒

[slow palm]

I've fucked with HGX enough to not doubt myself this time

[keen gale]

Oh okay well shit

[rigid mason]

the perks of using designs that rose from the depths of china

[slow palm]

Nah it should still be smooth

[rigid mason]

it looks like all the bearings are there

both ball bearings on the gear connected to the stepper

it only becomes difficult to move when the stepper is screwed in all the way

know what i'm gonna choose to believe this is not a problem for now

screwed into the old stepper it isn't so bad

so it might have something to do with the torque of this new one

simply observing the gears as i push them i can't see anything problematic

it's only strange because i'm not sure that it was always like this

[rigid mason]

why is it always the most cartoonishly stupid things that undo me

ziptied the cable in too stressful a position, it unplugged, and now my cartographer doesn't turn on

[rigid mason]

anyway where can i get an omron d2f around here

[rigid mason]

sigh welcome back

my ender bed is flatter than most so it's fine for now

i'll build a klackender if my carto is truly dead now

[rigid mason]

trying to print a protoxtruder wish me luck

[icy hull]

#1344091947022942329

[rigid mason]

i think my nozzle might be partially clogged

i'm kinda regretting buying volcanoes instead of v6s

it's harder to change them this way

eh this current print is coming out kind of normal

maybe the high ASA temps flushed out whatever was in there

i'll keep the proto parts on hand if i need them but i won't build it yet

[rigid mason]

eh i'll build it and see

why not

wish i had a deburring tool

[mighty glacier]

order it

and some chamfer drills

[rigid mason]

i can get one from the lab when i go back next week

[rigid mason]

daamn it

kids

dont forget your shrinkage compensation

[slow palm]

At the scale of an extruder, shrinkage doesn't matter

[rigid mason]

lmao

[slow palm]

Shrinkage is usually around 0.5-1%

[rigid mason]

so what's the deal with this idler then

[mighty glacier]

try from the other side?

[rigid mason]

the deal is that it goes in from the other side

[rigid mason]

thank you

[mighty glacier]

[rigid mason]

the fit is still too tight for the gear to spin freely

i need to reprint it

using proto will shave 30 grams off

[rigid mason]

belted z inspired design

it's sort of like my first attempt but a lot more robust

and before you tell me i need chamfers yes i know

[rigid mason]

well the hold isn't particularly strong

i can undo it with my hands

i have thickened the clamp piece but that didn't really help

where do i go from here?

[rigid mason]

i'd like to see how other cartesian toolheads do it

[rigid mason]

you know

now that my cartographer is (possibly) dead i might be able to try out reprapfirmware

i wonder if that's worth it

[slow palm]

Do you want to see how I do it?

[rigid mason]

yes

[slow palm]

As the belt gets tensioned, it clamps down harder

[terse flicker]

This design is so interesting

[slow palm]

I like this one even more

Much more compact

I'm running this right now at 100N and it's holding on great

(maybe that's why my idlers are dying 😂 )

[terse flicker]

Nice, my design is similar, but uses the act of pulling the belt holder into the tensioner to bite down on the belt

Similar to belted z tensioner

[icy hull]

Just shifting the weakpoint to another component

[rigid mason]

i don't understand how this one works lol

are both ends of the belt in there?

[terse flicker]

I'm guessing the other end just goes into a similar holder

That one is for tensioning

[scarlet roost]

this is bad

layer adhesion

[rigid mason]

yes it warped

[slow palm]

As the belt pulls, it pulls the block with it and clinches down harder

[rigid mason]

but i put it in the enclosure and it was fine

[scarlet roost]

kevin i may steal your 9mm y axis at some point

im too lazy to rn

[rigid mason]

i think i get it

now to figure out how i elegantly model this

[dreamy mulch]

get ur rails alligned first 😭

[scarlet roost]

I can’t cuz my holes are wrong there why I got a cf bed to do the holes right

[rigid mason]

need to make an ali order but i'm scared of the tariffs

[scarlet roost]

The tarrifs aren’t active maybe?

Stuff doesent seem more expensive

[rigid mason]

they're coming soon

don't want to get caught with them while order is being shipped

[rigid mason]

also im switching to kalico

[rigid mason]

and done

[rigid mason]

it's gonna be impossible to fit these clips in here

[icy hull]

Just make the slot big enough to fit the wedge in, then feed the belt through and pull it tight

[rigid mason]

yea

[slow palm]

For something like this I recommend having it in two pieces

[rigid mason]

i did do that

the first time

if i make it wide enough i can reuse the toolhead mounting screw instead of adding more holes

[rigid mason]

i wonder if this is ok

[rigid mason]

this wedge clamp is indeed a great hold

i got this warning after switching to kalico, what am i supposed to replace this with

[rigid mason]

getting it out might be impossible though

[mighty glacier]

min_power

it has fan power normalisation

so if your fan starts at 20% you set min_power: 0.2 and it'll scale the fan to 0-100%

so what's really 21% to your fan is gonna be 1% in the slicer

https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/pull/6307

why

[rigid mason]

nevermind

lol

i was wrong about that

thank you

[rigid mason]

pulley won't stay on the darn shaft

unless i put it upside down

but then i can't double shear

gotta get some loctite i guess

[slow palm]

Wym

Thats impossible

[rigid mason]

it is loosening

the grub screws are loosening i mean

[slow palm]

Locktite

[rigid mason]

i wish the d cut section just went lower

btw how do you take the belt out of these clips???

[slow palm]

Which

[rigid mason]

the angled ones

[terse flicker]

I'm finally getting retaining compound

[slow palm]

Pull em the other way

[rigid mason]

o okay

[slow palm]

This is belt after 1 week of 100N tension

[rigid mason]

my belt didn't go all the way through though; i made the opening shorter but forgot to make the clamp shorter :/

[slow palm]

This method is very gentle on the belt

[terse flicker]

What's 100N in hz, 300mm path

[rigid mason]

looks like i'm finally rid of that old belt hook

i have to design a tensioner that can go tighter than this and take a 20t idler

the clip is a little off center though

[icy hull]

ya got some funky belt angles going on there

[slow palm]

oh god you do NOT want to attach your belt like that

this will make your X steps variable across the X axis

[rigid mason]

it was like that before

i mismeasured and made the clip off-center

i'm going to fix it

[slow palm]

and that's not good

[rigid mason]

yeah i know

[slow palm]

you see how on my belt attachment it goes all the way inside the extrusion

[rigid mason]

i know how it's supposed to look

[scarlet roost]

Ew

[rigid mason]

forgot to invert dir pin and x carriage fell off

no bearings fell out thankfully

this is what i get for being too lazy to print an endstop

soon i will install awd y
as long as kevin has cad for 6mm belts bc i really don't feel like spending more money on this thing

[rigid mason]

ok i printed a fixed belt clamp

[rigid mason]

note to self: utter destruction of old clamp was not necessary to remove belts! the clips can be pushed out from their slots from the front with a pointy object!

also

my heatblock is too big for this toolhead

it keeps annealing the part of the carriage where it touches lol

kind of fascinating

[rigid mason]

now it's a mm off in the other direction 😭

[rigid mason]

ok it's aligned now

but the pulley isn't

[scarlet roost]

Why do the parts look like that

[rigid mason]

the camera is really close

[scarlet roost]

But still

[rigid mason]

but still what?

[rigid mason]

tariffs

[scarlet roost]

I was gonna buy 9mm belts but didn’t because of this

[rigid mason]

looks nice and isn't so hard to move by hand anymore

gotta re-run input shaper

don't have carto or ebb anymore so i'll screw my adxl board into the nozzle

after i reposition my pulley

[tender ocean]

https://a.co/d/cezieWD
What would the difference be for something like this instead?

[rigid mason]

that's not gates

[tender ocean]

Ah, just different material type and stuff. What does it affect in terms of going with something like that or gates? Like is it generally stronger and grippier

[slow palm]

Gates belts are generally stiffer. Less "stretchy"

Like, very noticably so

[tender ocean]

Good to know, thanks

[terse flicker]

The fake gates i got seem to be great

[rigid mason]

bro has the fences belts

[slow palm]

Why tf would you get fake gates😭

Gates are so cheap as-is

[terse flicker]

They were for belted z

X and y are gates obv

[scarlet roost]

Not anymore

[slow palm]

Nah. Still cheap

Even with 145% on top

[tender ocean]

https://makerparts3d.com/products/gates-ll-2gt-rubber-open-timing-belt-1-meter-6mm-9mm?variant=46044885418222

So would this be a good price? 1M for $6.99?

Looks to be US based so.

And it's long enough to be usable.

[terse flicker]

Eh, from mellow on ali they are like 3 dollars a meter

[tender ocean]

Oh, I was seeing the $40 for 2M up above lol.

[terse flicker]

Ali pricing is boned rn

[rigid mason]

where

if it has now been boned it will not be un-boned till trump changes his mind

let's take a moment to remember where this printer once was

[terse flicker]

Ali, mellow, 6mm is like 3.50 a meter, 10mm is like 4.50

[rigid mason]

yeah i can't find that

[rigid mason]

the speeds i run are still barely faster

they definitely would be were it not for the safety of my poor y motor

[tender ocean]

I couldn't find anything either.

I feel like if that's the case, 6.99 for a meter of some real stuff isn't that bad all things considered.

[terse flicker]

Mellow has them for like 7 dollars a meter rn but when tarrifs aren't on its cheaper

[tender ocean]

Can you link?

[terse flicker]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtv1Lzv

[tender ocean]

That's still almost $15 per meter for the 9 mm wide gates belt (which is what we were discussing)

So the option I presented is still cheaper

At least for now, until tariffs reset, if they ever do...

[terse flicker]

Yea, the issue with the mellow listing is it ships from the US, so they include the tarrifs

[tender ocean]

This other place also ships from the US

I mean you'll still have to pay shipping but

[terse flicker]

Then it's not a bad price for rn

[rigid mason]

interesting

i think i would prefer something like this over a CAN board

not for this printer though

[rigid mason]

i wish there was a 0.5mm zs plus

[rigid mason]

time to test this ASA-GF

[rigid mason]

went OK for no tuning or configuration

definitely super overextruded

stiff as hell

it doesn't feel like it should be possible for plastic to be this stiff

[rigid mason]

moment of silence for all my wasted threaded inserts

i'll try to get them out

nvm this is not worth it

[rigid mason]

i miss my carto.. i wonder if it's fixable

[mighty glacier]

it's pretty easy tho

[rigid mason]

i don't have proper iron tips

[icy hull]

Put a screw in, heat it with a lighter, pull out with pliers

[rigid mason]

yeah i could do that

but i'm too lazy

[rigid mason]

only on thingiverse

[rigid mason]

i will try converting protoxtruder to single gear

[icy hull]

So...just grinding the teeth of the pom gear of one of them?

[rigid mason]

no

i'll replace it with a bearing

like this

[rigid mason]

i'm also thinking it might be time to design a toolhead

i'm not a fan of how tight this heatblock fits in yavoth

[rigid mason]

i have the ability to laser cut acrylic

i wonder if that could help in a toolhead somehow

[mighty glacier]

you can make cool extruder front covers and put LEDs behind it

[rigid mason]

is it worth getting one of these

i have a pt1000 but the fly has no amp

[terse flicker]

If you really want to run pt1000, or just get some ntc and call it a day

[rigid mason]

i am using a pt1000 right now

[terse flicker]

Yea, ive found that pt1000 on normal boards has pretty inaccurate temp readings

It made my pla smoke at 200c

[rigid mason]

._.

it really hasn't seemed that bad so far

[terse flicker]

It was close to 30c off

[mighty glacier]

what mainboard?

[rigid mason]

fly dp5

[terse flicker]

I also have a weird hotend so that little bit more temp meant a lot

[mighty glacier]

uses standard 4.7k sense res, not bad not terrible

if you don't go above like 280C it should be fine

[rigid mason]

i would like to

[mighty glacier]

ime 4.7k pt1000 is good about there, 2k is about 350C, but amp is nice

[rigid mason]

alright i'll get the amp

[mighty glacier]

there's ntc thermistors good to like 400C

[terse flicker]

Where haha

[mighty glacier]

dyze and mellow

[rigid mason]

lmao all these ali amps are such shameful copies of the adafruit one

they even took the damn listing description

[mighty glacier]

https://dyzedesign.com/shop/accessories/thermistor-300c-500c/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000591370691.html

[terse flicker]

Ah yea, cartridge ones

[mighty glacier]

the dyze is m3

[terse flicker]

I mean... i could kinda use them, not really

[mighty glacier]

I like cartridge most tbh

all the others are fragile

[terse flicker]

Very

I broke the bare pt1000 I got haha

[mighty glacier]

the $5 pt1000 with mica wires is still my fav

haven't broke once, readings as steady as the first time

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005580118922.html

[rigid mason]

i have that

[rigid mason]

i was spurred by this post to check my ebb36

hmm

the max31865 on it works fine but my heater heats up by itself

[rigid mason]

fixed my carto

connector was borked so i soldered the wires straight to it

gonna hot glue for strain relief

[rigid mason]

ender style

[rigid mason]

benchy collection (all but purple and one of the white from this printer)

[rigid mason]

i don't want to think about this anymore

[mighty glacier]

I feel that

[rigid mason]

i think the belt is finally figured out

[rigid mason]

i was wondering why i could feel a little bump when i moved x

i just spotted a bearing that fell out of my carriage that one time

[dreamy mulch]

oh yeah I like that

[scarlet roost]

What in the print quality

[rigid mason]

do you have anything constructive to say

all you've done in this thread is vaguely hate

i know it's not good, i didn't tune the filament

[dreamy mulch]

I mean

doesn't matter aslong as the part is strong its fine

Look at stratasys printers e.g. they don't print pretty but they print well enough

[scarlet roost]

true true sorry

[rigid mason]

re-counted bearings, re-greased x carriage and no more bumps in the movement

[rigid mason]

boy the cartographer is too close to the bed

i snipped off the protruding leads so it's usable for now but i guess i should still be reprinting the mount

:|

[rigid mason]

against my better judgement i continued to tighten my nozzle past the point you would reasonably consider it snug, thinking "is this too far? i don't want it to snap again", continuing anyway, and thus snapping the nozzle

this isn't catastrophic like last time because i have a properly sized heatblock but now i gotta get this damn thing out

[rigid mason]

diy v6 nozzle!

[mighty glacier]

oh no

[slow palm]

I'm half horrified, half impressed

[rigid mason]

is there any reason not to use a mk8 heatsink

[terse flicker]

You just have yo make sure all of your parts match like heatsync, heatbreak, and heater

[mighty glacier]

it's bad

[rigid mason]

how so

[mighty glacier]

smooth structural break only held by setscrews, form factor and mounting is meh

[rigid mason]

so what's the best kind of heatsink

[icy hull]

V6 styles are tried and tested🤷

[rigid mason]

my v6 heatsink is kind of crushing my heater wires

also the fact it (mine has dragon-style screws) mounts from the top is a little inconvenient

[mighty glacier]

toolhead plate

heatbreaks have gotten so efficient that you can just dump the heat in the toolhead/extruder body without a fan

[terse flicker]

Lol

[terse flicker]

Assuming you have a metal toolhead

[mighty glacier]

well, that's the best kind

[slow palm]

wym inconvenient

you want the v6 clamp?

[rigid mason]

uh no

i want mk8/mosq/bbl side mount tbh

[mighty glacier]

the mosq one is nice since you can add a net to it and then the heatsink becomes a rigid part of your toolhead

https://github.com/TheRealDeathsneeze/Deconstruder

[rigid mason]

i've heard of it

but didn't end up with nf crazy

block i have is similar to uhf mosquito

[mighty glacier]

potato potato

I think you can mismatch nf crazy and mosq

[slow palm]

But if you don't do that, the two bolt mount from the top are woefully insufficient

[rigid mason]

i'll just keep the current one

[rigid mason]

aliexpress taking longer than expected

[rigid mason]

i am actually considering no longer using a uhf length hotend

pros:

• filaments melt better
• faster printing possible
  cons:
• harder to tune
• nozzle swap is a total PITA
• three (3) separate things in the heatblock threads to hot tighten
• loss of z axis space
• worse vibrations because longer

if i'm being real i never cared about attaining the world's fastest speedbenchy

[mighty glacier]

the happy middle is using a single block that's long enough

tuning let's be honest is not an issue, and I've used blocks from mk8 to supervolcano

but I agree on the million things to hot tighten being pain

[rigid mason]

if you could find one with one handed nozzle swap screws that isn't a million dollars sure

[mighty glacier]

lancer long

[rigid mason]

should have specified but no chc

[mighty glacier]

but why

[rigid mason]

i'd like to print beyond 300

they're also somewhat fragile

[mighty glacier]

I printed up to 350 with it

and it ran away up to 400

[rigid mason]

seems healthy..

[mighty glacier]

I mean it only died because I forgot to undo the connectors and ripped it off the printhead

but otherwise it can do 350

[rigid mason]

okay

[rigid mason]

can it really go to 350 safely?

max temp in its listing is 300 and that's what most resources say you shouldn't exceed with a standard chc and ntc100k

not trying to fafo with temps hotter than i solder

[scarlet roost]

Why do you need 350

[rigid mason]

nylon

[scarlet roost]

Don’t you need an enclosure

Nylon on an ender seems eh

[mighty glacier]

I mean under regular conditions due to the position of the thermistor the cores themselves get close to 400C while heating up

[rigid mason]

i have one

[mighty glacier]

I was using it a lot at 320C, not a lot at 340C because the pc was better at 320

[rigid mason]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rigid mason]

good night sweet prince.
took it apart yesterday to pack for the move.

maybe when i'm finally in my new house, https://discord.com/channels/167661427862142976/1367906259549819030 (which i now possess) will help you run again

[wispy vortex]

[rigid mason]

thank you to everyone who helped out and chatted here during the months this project was active

i'm gonna be deleting my discord soon, so while i'm not done with this printer, there will be no further updates here

(dead thread) Zandr 3

[wispy vortex]

Best of luck going forward

Hope you eventually return

[rigid mason]

i hope i never have to return to discord, but if something ends up forcing me to make a new account, i will return to this server

[mighty glacier]

wish you the best

[burnt sphinx]

hey guys

it's me

i'm done with moving; my printers and i are now in a new state; and i have... an everest of work ahead of me to ever print again

lmao i can't rename this

i should maybe have thought of that

[icy hull]

Welcome back

[icy hull]

What shall it be? (Or just make a new thread and link this one in the first message)

[burnt sphinx]

hm yeah i think i shall do that

not at this very second though

[icy hull]

No worries