Osprey Inspired VTOL? | 3D Printing | Page 1

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:32 AM

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This is to document my journey on my osprey vtol

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:33 AM

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e

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:33 AM

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rn im tryna like

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not have turbulent edges

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I like laminar flow lol

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the original osprey has a rounded edge that eventually buldges out to support the landing gear

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I guess ill have a slightly smaller profile that it lofts into

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cant really tell if thats any better lol

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:38 AM

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Is that a chamfer

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:43 AM

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nah

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just a lofted piece

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how do I fix this nose lol

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:44 AM

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pulsar bridge just a lofted piece

Elaborate

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:44 AM

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I just sketched up some smaller 2d plane

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that fits in the larger one

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and lofted it to that secondary piece

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idk how to smooth out the nose tho

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can I loft the entire nose area into one small circle, and then filet that circle?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:49 AM

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Im not sure what you mean

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Its difficult to work on the nose starting from that shape

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Here's an old model I made last year

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:51 AM

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like

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can you describe how you made that in general terms?

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I tried to just follow the osprey model I downloaded and extrude it but like you mentioned its extremely difficult to compose a nose from this

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:51 AM

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Loft nose
Loft fuselage
Loft wing
Mirror wing
Loft tail

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:52 AM

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loft nose from a starting cylinder?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:52 AM

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Just loft from the very beginning

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:52 AM

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loft what

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what are the two profiles you are lofting when you have nothing lol

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I create a sketch for the nose, and loft that with a second sketch with a fuselage

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and then loft that with the tail is that what ur saying?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:53 AM

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I set up my planes and make a sketch
Then project and modify the sketch for the rest of the planes

Planes as in a geometry plane

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:54 AM

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like what would the sketch for a nose look like?

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just a small circle?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:54 AM

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Yeah

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:54 AM

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and you loft that into the fuselage which is... a larger circle, or did you actually describe the geometry with more detail

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ie is ur fuselage a bunch of lines with detail?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:56 AM

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Like this

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:57 AM

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is that caita?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:57 AM

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This is solidworks

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Should translate to Fusion pretty well

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I hope

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Heres a better example

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:58 AM

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I was gonna make a box and then add semicircles on top and bottom

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:59 AM

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pearl folio Like this

cuz that seems like it roughly equates to the this geometry

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:59 AM

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See how the front consist of different shapes on each plane, and regulated with a guide curve

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 1:59 AM

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yeah I do

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 1:59 AM

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I think to start it would be best to start with the guide curve

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So make a curve that is the top half of your plane

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Im not 100% sure if Fusion handles guide curves the same way solidworks does

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:01 AM

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so curve as a constraint?

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or just as a part of the sketch

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:01 AM

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The loft is forced to follow the curve
Otherwise it comes up with random stuff

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:03 AM

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usually the guides are like linear tho

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oh silly me the loft menu has 'rails'

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:03 AM

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pearl folio Heres a better example

This one has two guide curves
A top one and a bottom one
It's how you control the space between the sketches

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It might be rails yeah

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:04 AM

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yeah

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oh

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you literally just create rails

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and select them

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and it follows them

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:05 AM

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pearl folio Like this

ohhh

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:05 AM

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Exactly

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:05 AM

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so here, you have 4 'rails'

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to keep the lofting linear at the top and bottom

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:05 AM

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Yes

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:05 AM

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pearl folio Like this

in this pic?

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:05 AM

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pearl folio Heres a better example

and in this one, you lofted to a tiny circle with rails that describe it as linear with those specific angles

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:06 AM

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pulsar bridge and in this one, you lofted to a tiny circle with rails that describe it as line...

Yeah that one has two rails

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:06 AM

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so should I do the 2 rails first for the top and bottom?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:06 AM

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That's how I'd do it

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And when you make your sketches, the sketch needs to "pierce" the rail somewhere

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Rail needs to pierce with the sketch otherwise you'll get an error

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Also to close the nose you'll probably need to define a point

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:08 AM

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okay so I have my rails

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and now I can just make a circle and do a loft to the fuselage circle?

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the rails are roughly the length/width I want the fuselage, a bit smaller

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:10 AM

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Ideally you want as many sketches as you need to form the shape you want

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:10 AM

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pulsar bridge the rails are roughly the length/width I want the fuselage, a bit smaller

Are the rails only straight lines or can you make them splines?

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:10 AM

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I can do a spline

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not really sure why I would want one tho

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ig to describe the curve on the sides

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:11 AM

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pearl folio Heres a better example

Well look here
My guide curves (pink stripped lines) curve to form the shape of the nose

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:12 AM

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wait

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the blue circles

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are also sketches?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:12 AM

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Yes

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:12 AM

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wait why does that make so much sense now

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I can just create a crap ton of sketches definiing the exact geometry and then basically just, loft them all together?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:12 AM

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Yes

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:12 AM

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thats awesome

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ig the only missing piece here is tuning the CG

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but I can just change infill to get the CG and center of lift in the right spots?

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ik its kinda cheating but it might work

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:13 AM

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Just don't be too upset if you are getting errors when you first try using the lofts
It's one of the most touchy tools in general from my experience

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Especially the catia version
Dear God

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:13 AM

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lol

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I go to an aerospace university and everyone hates catia

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from what ive heard its pretty bad

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maybe ppl are just naive tho idk

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:14 AM

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pearl folio Just don't be too upset if you are getting errors when you first try using the l...

I have very few expectations considering this is my first time even using CAD software

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ive been programming for like 10 years tho, have done a lot of graphics programming and voxel stuff so CAD makes sense to me

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:15 AM

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It's not bad
A little more analog than the others
Where SolidWorks and presumably Fusion 360 can kinda understand what you're trying to do, you have to tell CATIA exactly what you want

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There's just better cad options available nowadays though

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:15 AM

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I always used sketches as little as possible but now it makes more sense, you are supposed to use sketches to pretty much define your exact build and then only really extrude once you have the final layout

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:15 AM

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I went to an engineer convention and most use Creo and Siemens NX now

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:15 AM

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ooh

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I want to also try autodesk CFD on my build

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I get it with my uni

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and have a decently powerful computer to run it

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I also have $100 in AWS credits that I could burn

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:16 AM

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I have a little CFD add on with my solidworks

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:16 AM

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but if I do that it would mainly be surrounding ground effect and vtol stability

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:16 AM

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Though I'd like to learn Ansys

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:16 AM

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idc that much about forward flight stability, its pretty trivial to test and prototype

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but vtol will require one hell of a PID and a tonnn of fine tuning

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:17 AM

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Designing and programming the tilt is what's gonna get you

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:17 AM

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programming im not worried about

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should just be a half decent PID

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:18 AM

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I'd reallllllly stick to fixed wing

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:18 AM

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pearl folio I'd reallllllly stick to fixed wing

you havent heard the craziest part yet 😭

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but theres a specific reason I want vtol

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tbh I would just make a quadcopter but I want the fixed wing to improve range

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:18 AM

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Fair enough

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:18 AM

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I need vtol capabilities but ideally long flight time

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:19 AM

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Have you considered a quad plane

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:19 AM

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tbh havent even heard of them

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:19 AM

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If you do osprey style specifically you have to achieve full vertical Flight control with only two motors

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Which is gonna be hell I think

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:20 AM

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wdym

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the elevator will still have some authority

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and rudders might help a tiny tiny bit

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:20 AM

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Not in vertical Flight

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Unless it's an STOL and not a VTOL

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:20 AM

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💀

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so I need perfect CG basically

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any imbalance and the elevator wont be able to compensate

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:21 AM

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The control surfaces are irrelevant

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:21 AM

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yeah ur right

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theres no airflow

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:21 AM

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You'd only have the motors to control yourself

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:21 AM

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so id probably need the ability for the props to angle more than full vertical

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ie backwards a bit

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:22 AM

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If they move forward backward to create yaw moment then yeah

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:22 AM

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theres probably a good reason most people havent really tried to diy a vtol drone

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but idk im bold ig?

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hopefully not hopelessly naive about it

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:22 AM

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DIY quad planes get done

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:22 AM

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true but like

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:22 AM

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Osprey style is huge challenge

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:23 AM

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what makes it so challenging

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assuming the geometry is good

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CG is good

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and the motors have very fast response time for throttle and tilt

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and I have a good, high frequency PID loop

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:23 AM

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Like I said, you have to achieve control with only two motors

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:23 AM

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im a little confused on why that is such a difficult task if you have all of the above figured out

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like as long as the two motors give you the authority you need to correct, it should be do-able?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:24 AM

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Tilting the motors forwards and backwards to control yaw seems like a challenge, no?
And then there's roll

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:25 AM

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uhh

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how does osprey do yaw

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:25 AM

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Osprey has cyclic controls

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:26 AM

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oof

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just googled it yea

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:26 AM

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Unless you want to design a helicopter engine on top of everything else

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:26 AM

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lol

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nah im good

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unless something like this already exists

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but it doesnt seem like it does

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:27 AM

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I've seen Osprey RC models
Never seen that configuration used professionally in drone form

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All the drone companies use quad plane in that case

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:27 AM

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I could try buying cheap rc helicopters and reusing the cyclic mechanisms in them lol

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:28 AM

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That's true

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:28 AM

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but yeah

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in this form factor it would be near impossible to have pitch control without gears and other complex mechanisms

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I dont think you can get a servo/motor small enough to reasonably fit it in the same assembly

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I mean like maybe, but programming the PID and everything else for it would be very difficult to say the least

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:29 AM

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I think with the swinging motors you could get pitch and yaw
But then roll would be a nightmare

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:29 AM

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yeah

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I mean

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it would fuck up the drag but I could put

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a tail rotor 💀

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:30 AM

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Then you have a tricopter

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:30 AM

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fixed wing tricopter?

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:30 AM

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That could work I think

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:30 AM

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fixed wing tricopter actually sounds kinda cool

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:30 AM

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The back rotor would be idle during forward flight

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 2:51 AM

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pearl folio The back rotor would be idle during forward flight

or just propel it forwards

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pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 2:52 AM

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Yeah that could work

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Again if you've never built a RC before I'd start simple
There's challenges associated with traditional drones and challenges associated with fixed wing drones
And I wouldn't want to take on both at the same time

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Traditional will deal more with control and programming while fixed wing will deal with aerodynamics

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If you decided to build something like that, I would design it fully in CAD
Then build only the frame with electronics and motors. Once you can get that to fly around comfortably then you implement the aero parts

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If you jumped straight to the Vtol winged prototype you'll probably find yourself dealing with a lot of problems at once

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 3:03 AM

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yeah ur right

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ill do a simple fixed wing drone to start

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once I get my printer ill prototype something and order some motors and all the other stuff

pearl folio Feb 24, 2024, 3:06 AM

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Don't forget center of lift and mass

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Those tend to be kinda important when it comes to fixed wing

pulsar bridge Feb 24, 2024, 3:08 AM

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yea

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thank u for ur help so far

pulsar bridge Feb 25, 2024, 9:25 PM

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will order some props and build my first frame prototype sometime next month

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I wanna do lithium ion

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but I would have to find some BMS to use

pearl folio Feb 25, 2024, 10:07 PM

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Might be better to do lipo

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They are cheaper and safer

pulsar bridge Feb 26, 2024, 2:20 PM

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but lower density right

#Osprey Inspired VTOL?