Ok Is this keyboard just not capable of home-row mod keys?
And it keeps, constantly, disconnecting as I try to program it with the GUI.
Can we do this with a text file?
If I do manage to set a Mod Trap to try and create a home-row mod key setup .. the performance sucks.
I can't type a damn thing.
#Ok Is this keyboard just not capable of home-row mod keys?And it keeps, constantly, disconnecting a
north zinc
calm locustBOT
Ok Is this keyboard just not capable of home-row mod keys?
And it keeps, constan...
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hot mason
You're going to have to expand on that. You're saying Wootility constantly disconnects when you're using it?
hot mason
Sounds like you might be running some other RGB software that's interfering.
north zinc
Okay. Help me find it. I am on a macos... what could it even be? I don't add much properiety stuff.
I use hammerspoon and superkey .. those are the most 'keyboard' oriented mods I run.
And, even more importantly, is this why the mod trap home-row key mod I am trying to implement sucks so bad?
hot mason
I have literally no idea what that is. I'm moreso focused on getting Wootility to run the way it's meant to.
Can't help with tracking down potential apps interfering on Mac. We don't have a lot of Apple users.
north zinc
But that is the theory. That some other app is the "problem" and not wootility/the keyboard.
I don't buy it
I have had this keyboard for over a year. This is a new thing.
And if it some other app you can't play with, you should know this. You should want to know this.
hot mason
I don't work in tech support, nor do I have access to a modern Mac to investigate and compare personally.
Discord is not a support platform. You're receiving volunteer help here, not official customer support (in which case your issue would be passed on to those who could test and compare on a Mac)
hot mason
It's our Server. But the Discord server is not customer support, no. 
north zinc
Hmm mmm
What it is for exactly then?
Just vibing?
This is a community support channel.
Maybe someone else from the community. Will be more helpful.
subtle fable
Anyway, v5 is now in stable version and has a lot of fixed bugs from v4
honest dawn
what is the keyboard current firmware ?
2.9.4 / 2.10.1
north zinc
Okay. During my timeout. I upgraded to v5, even though I didn't want to due to it's other documented issues. But, trying to implement home-row mod key setup .. it still sucks, the same s before.
Either this keyboard hardware is just not capable of actually implementing true tap-hold .. or something about the firmware is not honoring the ms settings, or there is some other issue/limitation here.
Is there a way to see/edit the code that is going to the firmware?
As you can see in the video 200ms is relatively standard .. I have tried all values. None can even reliably type an A key without it getting lost.
north zinc
…
pallid anvil
I don't know if this is your issue, but I've noticed that if another key is pressed while the key with Mod-Tap is held down, it will act in "Hold" mode even if the hold time has not yet passed.
I think it's an intentional behavior, but it's inconvenient for this use case because when typing, I usually press another key while still holding down the previous one for a short moment
north zinc
It is a misfeature, if your findings are true.
The key question is whether this is a hardware or firmware/software 'limitation'
If it is software. It can be corrected.
If it is hardware, it can be sold.
And thank you for the work, the video, and sharing it.
loud orchid
I didn't read the million messages but it's not doable right now
don't need to "notice" this, says right in the modal
it's being worked on though, ETA is unclear
night night
If it is hardware, it can be sold.
it wouldn't be hardware
loud orchid
obviously not
night night
i'd say be patient and wait and a fix may come your way
loud orchid
less a fix, more a rework/added functionality
since the feature is working as intended
night night
i mean how likely is it that they are going to add this as a function if 1 person was asking for it?
loud orchid
100% since they have confirmed working on it, after I complained about it and after many other people complained about it too
#1240342257769386085 message see discussion ensuing
night night
ah right, @north zinc little advice tho, the people that are trying to help you are doing it on their own accord. A little bit of gratitude towards them would be nice
north zinc
don't need to "notice" this, says right in the modal
Thank you. Clearly a limitation that other custom/marketed-as-modifiable keyboards do not have. Now the key question for WOOTING. Is this a hardware or software limitation?
north zinc
It has to be one or the other. Becuase other keyboards CAN do this.
loud orchid
limitation implies it can't be done because of one or the other
this is just how it was programmed
therefore there's no limitation, it just needs to be programmed in another way
north zinc
Then it is a software limitation. Thank you. Will WOOTING fix/accomodate this?
night night
there isss a whole modding community in this discord if your interested in coding what u want into wooting
loud orchid
read the discussion
north zinc
Just one person. I bet there are more now.
night night
hm?
loud orchid
whatever makes you sleep at night
north zinc
This keyboard is marketed as customizable
night night
Ill let you know now, i am running custom code along side of the wootility software
loud orchid
sell the keyboard for all I care, I'm just pointing you to the lead software developer acknowledging it
north zinc
Will WOOTING fix/accomadate it?
loud orchid
and you refuse to read it
night night
Will WOOTING fix/accomadate it?
homie, read the discussion
north zinc
I guess that is progress. ... but just admiting the fact goes farther, for now.
loud orchid
so I'm just gonna fuck off
night night
@north zinc just a question
have you looked at coding the thing you want into the keyboard
north zinc
Yes
night night
not as custom firmware, more as custom software to acheive what you want to do
north zinc
The issue is this. It is always optimal to have the keyboard do this.
For reasons that I am sure are obvious to you.
This is why I invested in this keyboard, this company, to begin with.
night night
i wouldn't say your investing into the company
north zinc
Why?
north zinc
I am a customer, I bought the product. An expensive product. I expect it to perform as advertised.
I bought, an even more expensive one for my daughter.
That is an investement. In the company.
night night
im not going to argue over what is an investment since your not really investing anything
north zinc
I might even tell my friends. It depends.
night night
but to bring it to your question, yeah you can find software out there to achieve what you want to do
github is a good place to look
night night
For this keyboard?
universally
I am not sure why you want to do what u want to do, however yes there is probably something out there to achieve what u want it to do
north zinc
Dude. I shared a video
From someone else
That "justifies" this use case, if that is what you need.
night night
im not looking for justification, hell you can do what u wanna do. i made some custom code to make my keyboard flash if an enemy is near me through using an equaliser
north zinc
Not like I should have to defend this. For a marketed-as-customizable-keyboard
night night
alright dude, ive looked at your video. there is a tutorial
north zinc
haha
night night
near the end, stating how to achieve what u want to do
north zinc
Not using the KEYBOARD
Which he started with, as optimal.
The software shenanigans were for the built-in laptop keyboard. Or whatever other crap you are stuck using.
I don't like to invest in crap.
night night
huh
dude, look at the video you just sent, it provides a tutorial. if you are on macos it provides a tutorial on how to do what u want in the github repo
north zinc
Is this that complicated? Are you pretending to be this dense?
NOT USING THE KEYBOARD
That is not the idea here. On a customizable keyboard forum.
night night
homie, your asking to do something to your keyboard. using your keyboard.
night night
.... have a look at the github repo he has linked in the video description
there is a clear instruction set there waiting for you to read to do what your asking
night night
this add on whatever system software is wootility, what your asking is changing firmware
night night
where others can.
and im looking at the github repo, yes wooting can do this
all you had to do was look at the description and read what it is telling you to do
north zinc
Okay. Then forgive me my ignorance, or failure to understand. Can you just explain it? For me, and more for the community?
north zinc
Okay. No. this is not the same thing
night night
this is the github repo showing the instruction set of what your trying to change
north zinc
Kantana is not a firmware. It is an overlay to compensate for firmwares that are deficiant.
This is not an optimal solution.
night night
im sorry to say, there is no optimal solution, be patient and wait until the team at wooting have done what you have requested
if you say that you are an investor, do your job as an investor and wait for the new features to be implemented
north zinc
There is. Many other custom keyboards do this effortlessly. Today. Right now.
night night
right, this is just going in circles and im not interested in arguing with you over this. read what kantana is
i never said it was firmware, have you even looked that the video??? have you even listened to what the guy was saying??? kantana isn't firmware
north zinc
Yes
night night
if you can't be bothered listening to the guy, read what i just sent
north zinc
This is so funny
night night
north zinc
haha
night night
?
north zinc
Like repeating the same non-solution makes it right
night night
not being funny, its literally linked in the description of the video you just sent
north zinc
The keyboard should be able to do this, like the others, without hacks.
night night
....hacks????
north zinc
Yes. Hacks
If it isn't going into the firmware, that I can take to any other computer, and get the same experience... then WHY
That is what this keyboard is for.
I can hack up anything, on that computer, for any keyboard.
night night
I can hack up anything, on that computer, for any keyboard.
okay then do it
north zinc
But you can see the issue.
So it this product can't do what it says it can.
That is your "solution"
night night
right, let me tell you this. as you have been rude to me and others in this thread you have made. READ what you want to do before asking it blindly in here. This is not a support discord, its just for the community. You have called me "dense" but yet you can't comprehend that your asking for something that you have been told ISN'T in the wootility software. I have given you the solution which was linked directly from the video YOU sent in here. You complain about something not being optimal but you can't expect optimal if it doesnt even exist for this keyboard yet. These so called "hacks" aren't hacks, they are tweaks which you can do yourself if wooting doesnt already provide this.
Please do me a favour and read what i have sent you
north zinc
A thing that many other custom keyboards are documented as being able to do.
Okay. It 's a sell. Thank you for your, wrung out, honesty.
night night
And your complaining about other keyboards being able to do it, well listen, stop being a child and expecting everything to be everywhere, it isn't here, boo hoo homie. be patient as your the investor here and you as an investor should see this company grow
north zinc
I am not an investor anymore. And I am certainly not a child. This will impact your business.
night night
be patient, read a little more before insulting other people. and do your own research if no one else here can achieve this so called "optimal solution" that your looking for
and a little advice, nothing in coding is optimal, there will always be bugs that can be improved
north zinc
Is it a bug?
north zinc
Having your, expensive, custom keyboard do custom keyboard things is optimal
night night
I dont find anything here funny, please tell me what it is that humours you so much about what i am saying to you
north zinc
Your lack of awareness and willingness to gaslight uncessingly. It is humorous.
night night
Having your, expensive, custom keyboard do custom keyboard things is optimal
💀 not what optimal means
north zinc
According to @night night
night night
Your lack of awareness and willingness to gaslight uncessingly. It is humorous.
my lack of awareness is funny?? you lack the ability to read the description of a youtube video to find your so called "optimal solution"
north zinc
Dude, the flex you think you have .. is flat out wrong.
night night
yet you say, I lack awareness
north zinc
No gaslighting will change that fact.
night night
Dude, the flex you think you have .. is flat out wrong.
i am not flexing anything, i have tried to help you yet you have been insulting and condescending towards me and others in this community
north zinc
No, you attempted to defend, deflect and mischaracterize.\
night night
find your solution else where, not here if all you are going to do is insult and complain
north zinc
I am reporting a limitation I have found. I didn't make any preconcieved notions about what/where the blame for that might lie.
Initially\
safe wedge
I don't quite understand the obvious hostility, but modtap behaviour while holding modifier keys is something we'll revisit to allow for homerow mods. I don't see what the rest of the discussion is for.
north zinc
But, as more and more information came to light, from the community, from you ... the fact is clear where the blame lies.
night night
im not interested in what you are reporting, stop being insulting and rude when i have been trying to help you
north zinc
You are not trying to help. me
night night
so nothing i have told you has helped?
north zinc
No.
north zinc
Other than .. the product is somehow incapable of this use case.
Maybe it is a bug? Mabye it is a firmware limitation, maybe it is a hardware limitaiton. No one knows yet.
safe wedge
Maybe it is a bug? Mabye it is a firmware limitation, maybe it is a hardware lim...
I've literally told you we are aware of this. Homerow mod users are a small minority. I'll bring it up internally and we can try and prioritize it, but your attitude doesn't help anyone here.
north zinc
Necessity is the mother of all invention.
Glad to hear someone at wooting is "aware" of this small minority use case.
(that any, expensive, keyboard marketed as customizable should be able to do)
But. I would like you to state right here. Is this a hardware or software/firmware limitation with my keyboard?
north zinc
If it is the former, I would like to start selling now for myself and everyone I can reach. If it is the latter I could maybe hold out.
cosmic flame
(that any, expensive, keyboard marketed as customizable should be able to do)
That's not how the world works, products won't magically have features working in a certain way just because you think they should 😄
"Customizable" doesn't mean you can literally do anything you want, features still need to be developed
safe wedge
But. I would like you to state right here. Is this a hardware or software/firmwa...
It's definitely firmware + wootility
north zinc
That's not how the world works, products won't magically have features working i...
Other customizable keyboards can do this. Many of them can. I bought a customizable keyboard. I’m not asking for magic here, or for the world to spin in some opposite direction. I don’t know all of the logical fallacies by heart, but I’m confident you are engaging in at least one. I’ll naively call it “Appeal to Exaggeration.”
safe wedge
do you have another example video or documentation on this? I've implemented this in firmware but it feels absolutely atrociou, wondering if it's a me issue lol
I added the first one suggeste din the video: the D key inputs d on tap, and LSHIFT on hold. what I end up oding most of the time is pressing odwn the next eky before letting go of D, which makes it so it only sends out the d keydown after the next key has already been presse.d You can see the mistake several times in this message lol
north zinc
There are many other videos of this setup, with many different customizable keyboards
I don’t have them, or have made them myself. But the googles will show you
pallid anvil
Maybe keep it like the current implementation—send the actions if another key is pressed, but respect the delay time instead of forcing it to hold. After sending the actions, reset the timer. If the key is released before the delay time passes, do nothing. If it's still held, send the hold action. Tbh this use case requires a lot of fine-tuning to feel natural
north zinc
It seems to me there is some kind of nkey rollover issue with this keyboard for this feature
But it isn’t just pushing any more then 6 keys at once, like it used to be. It’s pressing any 1 other key, if the first key pressed was a mod-trapped key.
safe wedge
you clearly misunderstand the way it works right now. This doesn't have anything to do with nkey rollover. It feels nicer if you have a modifier key on Hold to immediately input it (before the hold time) if the user presses something else. The issue is with home row mod this behaviour isn't desireable. What I did and we probably will end up doing, is letting you disable this behaviour per modtap key
north zinc
I’m not misunderstanding anything