80HE freezes

[dawn moat]

hey, I know it has been reported many times by other people, my 80HE freezes whenever it has 8K polling rate and I'd like to know if it's fixable, thanks

[vivid river]

Thanks for posting your support request!

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[tame rune]

This can be a physical issue depending on several factors:

• USB-C cable
• The device it is connected to
• Local factors (e.g., EMI)

These can contribute to the problem and may be difficult to resolve through software or firmware adjustments.

When the keyboard operates at an 8000Hz polling rate, it uses the "USB Hi-Speed" standard, which lowers the voltage for data transmission from 3.3V while increasing the frequency of information being sent.

This can cause issues if there is a voltage drop during data transmission. For instance, a "1" might be misinterpreted as a "0" if the host system cannot reliably detect data at a lower voltage, such as 0.1V or less.

Electromagnetic interference (EMI) can also be a factor, where slight noise from EMI may result in incorrect detection, such as interpreting a "0" as a "1."

The example image shows a case where the signal weakens due to voltage drop, which can occur from resistance. (sorry for the rushed MS Paint job it is not that accruate but should kind of show the issue)

sometimes it can be resolved by

Trying a different USB port
one further away from the current location preferable color codded differently

Try a USB Hub or KVM (if possible)
Some USB hubs or KVMs may have a "Redriver" function that can amplify a weak signal back to a readable level such as 0.4v that the computer can better read.

• Note if the front of the Computer case has an SD card reader or other functions there is a possibility that this could be a USB Hub in the case

Another USB cable
Some cables may have enough resistance causing voltage drop, or if they are not properly shielded EMI could influence the cable
In case you are not using the stock cable, attempt to use this first as these are designed to minimize the resistances as much as possible.

[hollow swift]

a lot of people have this problem now. It may be helpful to change it to 1k hz, but it does not change the fact that it is a bit weak that something like this happens with keyboards that are sold as 8khz

[hollow swift]

I use the original cable that I received with Wooting 80HE, I tried two ports (usb 3.0)on the back of the computer and it didn't help

[dawn moat]

Okay thanks for the response, I use the provided cable though and the problem occured with it

[dawn moat]

yeah same... it would be nice if wooting could send us a reference cable to buy in order to fix the problem

[hollow swift]

do you think it's a cable problem???

[tame rune]

It is hard to say if it is the cable, as it could be due to several factors, such as the USB controller on the system, the local environment, or how the cable is routed (close to sources of strong EMI).

It is a tricky aspect to check. Sometimes, the issue can be resolved by how the keyboard is connected to the system, with a few cases where a USB hub or KVM resolves the issue by amplifying a weak signal or sending/reading the data being sent better than the original device.

[hollow swift]

I understand, but it's not like this problem for 5 people, one of the posts had over 10 arrows and there are new reports with the same thing all the time

And that's weird

I can try to connect the keyboard to the front of the computer but I don't know if the cable is long enough

[tame rune]

Not saying it is not an issue; it is being tracked on our side, and we are looking into any possible solution we can provide.

For reference, I can also replicate this issue if the conditions are right.

[hollow swift]

Have you changed the hertz to 1k?

And what conditions are you talking about more precisely?

[tame rune]

one second give me a bit to type this up

[hollow swift]

no rush

I will be waiting for feedback

[tame rune]

This is from memory so not the best

Wooting 80HE - 8k polling enabled
Reference:

• System: Back of the motherboard
• USB Hub: Powered USB hub connected to the back of the motherboard

Test 1
Stock cable:

• System, USB-Hub = No problem

Test 2
Cheap third-party cable (2M, 4 AUD):

• System, USB-Hub = No problem

Test 3
Cheap third-party cable (2M, 4 AUD) + no-name extension cable (~1M):

• USB-Hub = No problem
• System = Freeze

Test 4
Cheap third-party cable (2M, 4 AUD) + third-party USB-C to USB-C adapter:

• USB-Hub, System = Freeze
  (This one was odd; the added distance was only 1 cm, so it must be due to poor materials.)

Test 5
Super cheap 25 cm cable:

• USB-Hub = No problem
• System = Freeze

.

Most of the time when i had issues seem to be from a direct connection to the motherboard

i also attempted to connect the keyboard to the USB hub on my monitor but that was not the best test as it seem to have some issues not related to polling and occured with all the keyboards

[hollow swift]

Oh okey and also my USB port in wooting is wobbly

And it's new keyboard so it's weird

[tame rune]

80HE ?

[hollow swift]

yes

[tame rune]

If you move the cable (gently) , any connection/disconnection issue might be a poorly soldered USB-C port.

[hollow swift]

When I slightly move the USB-C port on the keyboard, it moves a little

But it doesn't cause it to freeze after I just start moving it

I already wrote to technical support once with a problem such as the keyboard freezing on November 14 and I still haven't received any response.

[tame rune]

Moving the cable was to check if the keyboard flashes off/on, which can be a quick way to identify if the physical port on the daughterboard is poorly soldered or breaking. This would require a replacement part to resolve.

If it seems to work, the issue could be that the daughterboard is not properly screwed into the case, causing slight movement (though this is hard to confirm).

[tame rune]

Ahh sorry about that we are bit behind on tickets we just brought on 2 new staff to help on techical tickets but may be awhile till up and running as still in training

[hollow swift]

I have a few final questions: Could the issue be due to the cable being coiled when it arrived, potentially causing minor damage? Did you change the frequency to 1 kHz, or are you experiencing the same problem I am? Should I reach out to support regarding the USB-C port?

[tame rune]

While I used the cable and combinations from the keyboard to the system to replicate the problem, it is possible that the system itself could be the issue. However, it's hard to provide a definitive answer for this, so the cable might be working fine.

The only way to confirm this would be with expensive tools or equipment.

---

The tests above were conducted at 8k. For general use, I typically lower it, but for the past week, it has been on 8k with no issues (I forgot to change it back).

---

The issue with the port seems fine, but if you experience problems like the keyboard disconnecting/reconnecting when moving the cable, please reach out. If possible, record a video so we can escalate this for a replacement part.

[hollow swift]

I don't have a problem with the keyboard disconnecting and connecting, and the problem with the keyboard freezing usually occurs when I use the computer for a long time, but not always. Once in the morning, I just turned on the computer, it happened twice within 5 minutes, and it happened the same way one weekend. that twice within 5 minutes when it first happened, I restarted the keyboard in the settings and it didn't help, then I restarted it using a key combination and it solved the problem for about two days. What's also strange is that when I got the keyboard a few weeks ago, nothing happened for 5 days and everything was fine, even though I used the computer for a long time, it started happening overnight.

[hollow swift]

The same day when it first happened, I added a third profile to the keyboard. Previously, I had only two default ones, but the settings were changed. After restarting with the keyboard shortcut, nothing happened, as I wrote, and having two profiles, problems also started (after restarting, I imported them from the code I saved)

||for example, yesterday, nothing happened all day after returning from school until the keyboard froze twice, almost on demand (there was a time gap)|

[tame rune]

It seems like you're explaining potential troubleshooting steps for a keyboard issue involving local factors or interference. Here's a more polished version of your explanation:

It's a bit tricky, as local factors could be playing a role. For example, the issue might have been worse at some point due to the system, or perhaps the cable was moved near a strong source of EMI. I'm not entirely sure, and I apologize if this isn't the clearest answer.

The best way to check for such issues is to connect the keyboard and use a device on the other end to read the signal, such as an oscilloscope to measure voltage, or use software like Wireshark to capture all the data sent from the keyboard. Look for anomalies, such as instances where the data should indicate a "0" but shows as a "1," or vice versa, and see how often it occurs. Compare this data at different points in the day or under various configurations.

That said, this goes into territory where I have limited knowledge, so there might be better methods available.

[hollow swift]

Could the thing that emits EMI be a router?

I have a router on my desk connected to the computer with a cable, I also have speakers with a subwoofer and a Go XLR

[dawn moat]

Can the interferences come from the USB A to USB C adapter ? The cable may not be the problem but the adapter can be ?

[wintry trout]

I have the same issue, have tried many different USB-A and USB-C cables, with and without USB hub, connected it to 2 different computers and problem still occurs. Even without touching the keyboard.

Don't know if this is the case for everyone since some people seem to be able to use the 1000hz option as a temporarily fix but this has not been the case for me and some others.

[tame rune]

Most of the time, EMI is hard to account for as it comes from various sources.

For example, if the cable is near or on top of (would need to be close to) AC-DC power bricks, wireless chargers, or wireless signal sources, it could cause interference.

Usually, issues are related to the keyboard hall sensors, so there aren't many references for cables.

[dawn moat]

damn that's messed up man

[wintry trout]

Does your keyboard RGB start to blink before your keyboard disconnects too? @dawn moat

[dawn moat]

thank you for the answers you are giving, it's really detailled and it helps understanding the issue

[dawn moat]

wdym disconnect ?

[wintry trout]

disconnect or freeze

[tame rune]

No problem been wanting to answer some qustion in the discord for awhile but it is hard to make the time over tickets with how long people are waiting

[hollow swift]

the cable is close to the router and a couple of power bricks at the back of the desk

[dawn moat]

bc on my side when the keyboard freezes there isn't any RGB issues (as far as I can tell)

[hollow swift]

mine no it just freez

[wintry trout]

oh okay I think our issues may vary then

[dawn moat]

I'll try to make the keyboard freeze again give me some time I'll tell u

[hollow swift]

rgb freezes and the last input is repeated and no key can be pressed, this is what I have

[dawn moat]

Since I have tachyon mode activated I can't see any RGB change but it doesn't turn off

[wintry trout]

it either freezes the RGB or it completely shuts it off, and usually blinks a few times before it does.

[dawn moat]

But it's the first time that the key stays pressed

[hollow swift]

So do you think that such thing might cause this problem that my keyboard cable is near power bricks and router?

[dawn moat]

8K with tachyon/rappid trigger disabled works fine though

I also have a 250w power brick near the cable

[hollow swift]

when I have 8k without tachylion mod and rapid trigger it also happens

and this is also happening with rapid trigger and taychlion mode

[dawn moat]

what sensitivity do you have ? I was on 0.4mm

[tame rune]

Maybe the 8k issue involves a lot of possible causes, which could be one, many, or a combination.

[hollow swift]

2mm 8khz no rapid trigger no tachylion IT frezzes////0,1mm 8khz tacvhylion on rapid trigger on IT frezes

[dawn moat]

maybe we should organize some sort of collaborative testing with all the people having the problem and gathering as much data as we can with various profiles

[hollow swift]

I agree, but we can't do it alone and the wooting team must also help us

[dawn moat]

yh for sure

but idk if they really wanna talk about it because it would probably decrease their sales

[dawn moat]

tried with the same settings and for the first case it works fine on my side

[hollow swift]

Due to all these problems, I was thinking about returning it because even though I understand that keyboards can have various problems, I have never had such problems with any keyboard I have had and explaining it is not an excuse. Nothing like this should happen, even though the keyboard is much more advanced than the standard one from the supermarket.

[hollow swift]

@dawn moat

[dawn moat]

yeah that's true, I'll wait a bit to see Wooting's answer though, maybe it can be fixed software side ??

[hollow swift]

explanation of how it works for me

[dawn moat]

oh okay I didn't see that thx

[tame rune]

ill make a better image in that case

[hollow swift]

maybe it could be caused because keyboard is demanding a lot of power or smth like this

[tame rune]

also yes... it is very braod of possible causes....

[dawn moat]

did you try it on Windows or another OS ? It may be linked

[hollow swift]

don't know I am only ussing windows

[dawn moat]

ok, I'll try it on Linux but idk if it will change anything, they might handle the inputs differently

[hollow swift]

it doesn't happen very often, it happens sometimes, usually in the evening, when I've already used the keyboard for a while, but as I wrote, it happened once, a dozen or so times in the morning, even though I had just turned on the computer and then restarted the keyboard. Sometimes it even happens in the afternoon after returning home.