tachyon mode actuation point not accurate

[idle fern]

Do you use the stock USB cable directly connected to the PC or an active USB Hub (externally powered)?

[exotic geyser]

stock directly on motherboard

[idle fern]

Please completely turn off the brightness (set to zero) and then test it again.

[exotic geyser]

i already do that it's exactly the same

[idle fern]

Here is an overlay which may help: https://github.com/DjCrqss/Woot-verlay
But I can't help you with that and I can't say if it's save or not.

Normally I would recommend to use the touch RGB effect so the analog value is shown on the number row but that don't work with Tachyon.

Besides that overlay you can use an analog profile and bind a controller axis to that key. Make sure the digital key isn't disabled then.
Then the analog value would be show in the gamepad controls, like on https://gamepad-tester.com/.

So when Tachyon is off and you use the touch RGB effect they should match. Then you would need to enable Tachyon and check how the gamepad input changes. If possible please provide a video with some explanation.

I need to know how it behaves differently otherwise it's very hard to help you.

[exotic geyser]

ok thx for your help.actually im in dm witth Syte Simon i willl try your method if he cannot help me.i send him a dignastic of my keyboard

[fluid sapphire]

yeah

same for me, tach off 0.1 is hair trigger, 0.1 with tach on is more like 0.5-0.6mm

[sage quiver]

You also tried with the overlay? I’ll try and see if I get the same problem later. I’m curious to see if the overlay will show it as 0.5 it feels like or the 0.1 it should be.

[exotic geyser]

ok we have exactly

the same problem.the question is it's the problem on all keyboard and people don't really understand or test this actuation difference cause they are not sensitive like us or your and my keyboard are defective cause tachyon iqs not supposed to do that

[exotic geyser]

im on azerty keyboard but for me it's more noticeable on some key .for exemple my Z key i can easily feel the actuation difference tachyon on vs off

[fluid sapphire]

qwerty / US for me

[exotic geyser]

ok and for you the problem is equal on all keys or like me more noticable on Z for exemple

?

[fluid sapphire]

dunno, haven't tested directly

i do know that replugging the keyboard forces it to recalibrate the switches, so to make sure u dont press any of them when plugging it in

[exotic geyser]

yes recalibrate do nothing for me.but i doin't understand you have not the problem anymore?or like me the tachyon on make the actuation point not accurate?for me 0.1 MM is more like 0.5MM

[fluid sapphire]

yes it is still bugged as u said

im just stating how the board recalibrates

[exotic geyser]

ah ok i understand.in my side im still waiting Simon from wooting team come back to me with the data he ask me and find a solution i hope.but im really disapointed cause we are not solo with this problem so we need to understand and know what to do to fix that.i don't want not use tachyon mode and 0.1 actuation pmoint for the price i invest in this keyboard

[exotic geyser]

and what batch are you ?maybe it's related to the last batch.i have EU SOKKEN

[fluid sapphire]

socks

although i have a friend that got one earlier and says same thing

it was the NA batch b4 socks

[exotic geyser]

ok so it's look like not batch related.ask him if oyu can to comze in this post give feedback that can help to fix that and support will see we are not alone.in my opinion the problem is on all keyboard just some people cannot fell this difference .from all my test it's not a placebo feeling ecetera it's a fact the actuation with tachyon enabled is totaly different and not accuracy

[fluid sapphire]

bc cloudy cant remember worth jack lmao

[exotic geyser]

?? sorry im french i don't understand this

[exotic geyser]

ok so we are both socks sokken batch

[idle fern]

You two can still help continue investigating into the problem.
#1075339050011074620 message

[exotic geyser]

im just sad i cannot make a video to show the problem

[exotic geyser]

i try to use it but i don't understand how that's work i think my browser block or something maybe Felt can try this

[exotic geyser]

and you rocky you are 100 certain you have not this problem?

[fluid sapphire]

if u make a version that is like

10x more sensitive, then it can be used, but your program half the time isnt sensitive enough, and the other half of the time, it does not visibly show exactly what i am doing

[idle fern]

I have don't have this issue. I don't even have the ARM version, I have the AVR version which was only used on the first batch. If the problem would be common more people should encounter it.

[fluid sapphire]

yes and all three of us have arm versions

[idle fern]

Who? So far you are two. Or who else has it?

[fluid sapphire]

my point is, i have to press the key in like, 0.3mm with tachyon on @ 0.1mm actuation, but with tachyon off, i can literally practically "tilt the keycap" and it will go off

[exotic geyser]

ah ok maybe it's ARM related.but ARM what i read is a sort of upgrade so why we have this problem with better MCU

[exotic geyser]

exactly the same for me

and particulary on Z key don't know why

[idle fern]

All batches beside the first one are ARM. There are many batches so far. And again I'm not aware what a lot of users have this specific issue. So no, so far I don't think this is common.

[fluid sapphire]

it probably is common, its just so small that only the schizos notice it

[exotic geyser]

i already try dissable the keyboard pcb ecetera swap switch and no difference

[idle fern]

On which data you believe that this is the case?

[fluid sapphire]

it takes 2 min for yall to just plug a board in a debugger and just check values

[idle fern]

Please refer to two more people here who have the same issue. Should be a problem because there are a lot of Wootings out there.

[fluid sapphire]

again, we are talking on the magnitude of <0.2mm

most people just get their board, turn on tachyon, and then never touch the software again

[exotic geyser]

lol

[fluid sapphire]

like, you guys have internal tools and hw, and you are telling the randoms to "collect more people complaining bc we cant be cared to investigate" a thing that would take less than an hour to fact check and prove us wrong

if u polled all wooting owners, >65% of em would just say they turned on tachyon, and set their settings, and haven't touched the software since

like every reviewer did in their videos

[exotic geyser]

it's what i think too, but maybe rocky is in the right

we cannot know

[fluid sapphire]

yeah and its the same thing finalmouse said when they were told their firmware was gimping the sl12 so hard it lost to the orochi v2 by 7ms, they told me my testing was irrelevant, 5 months later releases a "competitive firmware"

[idle fern]

The problem don't seems to be common, I don't have it so I can't reproduce it. I would need data to have the chance to rule it down.
I have a debugger but that would not help you. It would only help if I would have your keyboard to have a look into that.

By the way, I hope that it's clear that I don't work for Wooting.

[exotic geyser]

we need to wait Simon comeback

[fluid sapphire]

yeah i get that u dont directly work for wooting, im just saying, this could be tossed to someone that does have the tools and could check it out relatively quickly

[exotic geyser]

yes np man help appreciated

[idle fern]

You misunderstood it. No one is tying to prove you wrong. But a problem can only be fixed if the cause is known, otherwise it can't be addressed. Even for a workaround you should at least know how to circumvent it.

[fluid sapphire]

yes, disable tach

[idle fern]

Or use another keyboard. 😄

[fluid sapphire]

why would i

im not saying it kills the keyboard, im saying it just heavily neuters actuation distance when using tachyon, i aint gonna just "not use" my $175 board i bought specifically for rapid trigger just because one software toggle has a bug 😂

[idle fern]

Because I would not call disabling Tachyon a workaround to address the issue that the detection is wrong on Tachyon.

[fluid sapphire]

no, obviously not, but the 0.2mm or so saved in actuation distance is going to save a lot more in e2e latency than whatever tachyon gives itself

[idle fern]

Removing the switch, replugging the device and then inserting the switch would be a workaround. Because due to this recalibration the scanning would be more sensitive. But because you would need to do that each time you replug the device I would not say that this is usable workaround.

[fluid sapphire]

yeah but the point of calibration is to set the zero point

[idle fern]

And?

[fluid sapphire]

wouldn't having no zero point just, activate the switch at all times when inserted

[idle fern]

I don't get what you want to say here. If the keyboard is calibrated without a switch these keys become more sensitive. Then you would be able to control the actuation point again with the settings. Of course you would lose range / granularity but it should be possible to get a real activation of 0,1 mm again.

[fluid sapphire]

yeah, id get the 0.1 on tach, but then it would negatively impact the accuracy of switch, ie, what it relies upon for using rapid trigger?

ik you said "not an ideal workaround" to do it for the whole board, but kinda sounds worse than just turning off tach

[idle fern]

I still don't get what you mean. This was just something theoretical anyway and that don't help anyone.
So it doesn't matter... I understand it what way, that you two aren't willing to make tests to provide more data to help to figure out what the problem is. I'm totally fine with that. Instead you want to wait that Simon knows what the issue is and that he will be able to help you. So I keep my fingers crossed that this can be addressed soon. Good luck...

[exotic geyser]

Simon make me instal a developer wootility app and send him a scanning date file and im waiting he come back with fix or help

[idle fern]

I was already aware of that.

[sage quiver]

It seems like I can also recreate this. But mine doesn't go from 0.1 to 0.5 or something, but a miniscule 0.1 to 0.2 at most

[exotic geyser]

ok for me on my Z key it's 0.1 MM is 0.5MM on other key it's like you 0.1MM is more like 0.3MM

[exotic geyser]

Do you think this method can work?

[idle fern]

This would be a workaround but as mentioned only theoretical.

[sage quiver]

I can confidentially trigger it with my S key, as that seems to be sensitive enough for it to activate when I only rock the keycap around.

But it will only ever do so with Tachyon off.

Ah, and J too.

[idle fern]

Tachyon is used to speed up the detection as fast as possibel. In order to archive that there are some sacrifices needed. Like to disable the RGB effects and to lose some analog precision. Normally a keys is scanned multiple times in a row before the analog value is determined to smoothen the signal and so reduce noise as much as possible. When Tachyon is used a key is scanned less times to determine it's analog value. But the analog value is the base to determine if a key is handles as pressed or not. So it is acceptable that a key press is not 100% the same for both modes. So while on Tachyon off the activation is maybe really at 0,1 mm when set to this setting it would be fine if the activation happens at 0,2 mm when Tachyon is used of the exact same settings. But it would be not ok if the activation then happens at 0,5 mm. This would not be in tolerance anymore. I guess.

[exotic geyser]

ok i do what's you suggest and my Z key look more sensitive but the other key have still the problem.i cannot remove allswitch all time i reboot my pc but you find find something interessing

[exotic geyser]

i will reboot my pc maybe the change stay let's try

[idle fern]

Again as already mentioned, removing the switches wasn't meant in any way as a suitable workaround. It was only an example what I would call a workaround for this case.

Rebooting the PC should not change anything. The keyboard only calibrate itself every first time it gets power. But when you reboot the PC the keyboard don't loses power and so it would not calibrate.

[sage quiver]

For me this is very much a non-issue, but for just for information's sake, this is what the overlay registers. All the 0,02 are when Tachyon is off, the other ones are with it on.

[exotic geyser]

ok reboot don't change like oyu say my Z key is still fixed.how can i make my keyboard loose power?unplug?

[sage quiver]

Yeah, unplug, then plug then don't touch it for a few seconds

[exotic geyser]

ok let's try

[sage quiver]

touching the keyboard while it starts up can cause issues, so just plug it in and let it do it's thing for a bit

[exotic geyser]

the problem comeback so what we can conclude of this?

to resume when i unplug the keyboard and remove the switch my Z key tachyon on and replug the keyboard and put the switch the actuation point is fixed but when i unplug the keyboard and plug again the fix is done

[idle fern]

I helped and assisted them multiple times by now. You only need to check my previous posts. But no, I don't work for them. I'm more like a technical consultant when it comes to the USB stuff.

[exotic geyser]

so what oyu can conclude with the thing i tell you?

[idle fern]

I don't get what you mean. It looks you are still referring to the removing of switches which again should not be done.

[idle fern]

I don't get what you mean. So I can't conclude anything.

[exotic geyser]

Ok i resume again.i unplug the keyboard, and remove the switch off my Z key , I plug my keyboard and i wait 10 seconds.i put back the switch and voila the actuation is 0.1MM

[exotic geyser]

but when i unplug the keyboard again and replug the fix is done

[idle fern]

Yeah, you tricked the calibration as I predicted. So I don't get what you want to tell me here. It adds nothing new.
When you disable Tachyon the key would be more sensitive too and likely handled as pressed as soon as the switch is installed.

[exotic geyser]

i don't understand you we find something no?

[idle fern]

Give me a minute and I can explain a test which would help.

[exotic geyser]

if we trick ther calibration maybe we can fix the problem in some way?

[idle fern]

1. Import this profile bc85d4dc4c4e6a45f50e854b0d2240eb1c12
2. Replug the device
3. Select the imported Test1 profile
4. Open the Wootility in the analog settings submenu of this profile
5. Put some weights on the pink W key until the analog preview shows a small value
6. Start a video capturing
7. Go to the performance sub menu and disable Tachyon
8. Go back to the analog settings submenu
9. Go to the performance sub menu and enable Tachyon
10. Go back to the analog settings submenu
11. Stop the capturing

The difference in the shown analog preview value would be the difference of the pressed depth of the key.

[exotic geyser]

like suggested by Felt wooting can make a offset in the settings of wootility app to fix that

[idle fern]

No... At first we need to know how bad the problem is. If it's consistent over all batches it would may help to internally apply a different function to convert the signals into a linear curve depending on the mode.

If it's consistent per keyboard then there should be an independent calibration depending if Tachyon is on or off.
If it's inconsistent it can't be really addresed.

[exotic geyser]

im sorry i have nothing to record i never do that im just a player of game

[exotic geyser]

yes but if we fix the problem with the calibration trick it can be fixed no?

[idle fern]

You can use the internally Win function in the case your graphics card driver supports it or you can use a smartphone and record the screen.

[exotic geyser]

im on tv my condition actually are not optimal i alreadfy try to make a video but my we see nothing cause the tv appear greyed

[idle fern]

Your problem is that there is a difference in the detected analog signal depending if Tachyon is used or not. So by the current calibration one would be off. So no, it would not really help.

[exotic geyser]

sad

[idle fern]

As long as you are on a PC it should not matter that you are using a TV as a screen.

Only the Wootility need to work for this test.

[exotic geyser]

the only way i can record is with my phone and when i want record we see nothing cause the screen appear greyed

[idle fern]

This would mean you need to change the ISO value of the recording.

So the camera sensor isn't overexposed by bright objects.

[exotic geyser]

i will try

[idle fern]

Or you can just reduce the brightness of the TV.

[exotic geyser]

im sorry but im not used with this im a plug and play guy

[idle fern]

This is the difference for me on the W60HE. I used around 32 g.

[exotic geyser]

ok so you have the same problem right?

[idle fern]

It kinda differs by around 8% of the total value. It's around 16% with Tachyon off and 8% if on.

This only happens on the lower range, on the upper they are more and more identical.

[idle fern]

It depends... Like there is a dead zone on the lower end. I can't reach a value between 0 and 8%. It's either 0% or 8+%. So the analog control kinda starts with 8%.

[exotic geyser]

ok but the problem is here ?

We see a difference between teachyon on vs off

[idle fern]

As mentioned due to the lesser precision on Tachyon it's expected that it's not as good when enabled compared to when it's disabled.
Also especially the analog precision at the start is very hard to archive. So it's possible that Wooting added an additional safety zone at the start of the range for Tachyon to prevent wrong inputs. Only Simon would be able to either confirm or deny this assumption.

[exotic geyser]

ok can you contact him and follow that ?

[idle fern]

There is a reason why other Hall effect keyboards don't allow such sensitive settings.

[exotic geyser]

ok i understand wooting play with the limit

but i don't say that negatively

[idle fern]

The question is more if this is intended or not. Also this don't tell us if it's the same for you or worse.

[exotic geyser]

on my Z key worse (i think)cause the rest of key are not problematic at the same point

i can handle 0.2 margin of error

[idle fern]

In the case it is intended it would be more logical to me personally to maybe reduce the possible settings when Tachyon is on then messing around with the internal curve. For example to maybe only allow to start the actuation when Tachyon is enabled at 0,4 mm or whatever a save value would be and to not allow for 0,1 mm steps and instead maybe only 0,4 mm steps.

[exotic geyser]

im french so i try to understand to make thius simple you recommend me to put 0.4MM on my actuation point?

[idle fern]

No, that Wooting offers different settings depending if Tachyon is enabled or not.

[exotic geyser]

ah ok you speak about how wooting can try to fix that?

[idle fern]

Like if Tachyon is off that the allowed range is from 0,1 mm to 4,0 mm and if on from 0,4 mm to 4,0 mm.

[exotic geyser]

ok for you it's the only way to fix this?

[idle fern]

So that the used settings is the same, so that 0,4 mm is the same depth regardless if it's enabled or not.

[exotic geyser]

ok so if i put 0.4MM the problem is still here just not at the same actuation point

[idle fern]

I don't know how difficult the scanning is at the start of the range. This is the crucial and important part.
As long as the signal is good enough and stable calibration helps.

We still don't know if it's worse for you compared to me or not.

[exotic geyser]

ok you will be able to go up this info to simon to forward this story?

[exotic geyser]

actually simon only ask mùe to send him the troobleshoot scan and im waiting the following

[idle fern]

For me personally this is a none issue and at most only annoying. I don't even use such a low actuation point and I also don't use Tachyon.

[idle fern]

He most likely knows how the scanning works. So he should be able to tell if this is intended or not.

[exotic geyser]

im not good with informatic ecetera but trust me i feel little detail like this and it's sad i cannot use the lowest setting for a keyboard i pay

[exotic geyser]

ok so i must wait he comaback and send me a message

cause i spend more time this days on discord than pplay with my mates

[idle fern]

It would be still nice to know how it's behaving for you. At least from my video it's obvious that there is a difference in the detected analog mode depending on the Tachyon mode.

It would be good to know how different keyboards behave here.

[exotic geyser]

i have a clean windows instal and all recording stuff ecetera are deleted and like i tell you i cannort make a video cause of my fucking bad phone or tv screen

[exotic geyser]

i understand

[idle fern]

Remember I put 32 g on the key. I forgot how the switch was defined, I somehow remember it starts at 40 cN and ends at 60 cN.

[exotic geyser]

yes i see

[idle fern]

But 40 cN somehow appears high for me. But if so it would mean the spring contracts earlier.

[exotic geyser]

it's maybe approximative

[idle fern]

I don't have something to really measure the exact depth of a press. It would be necessary to compare the exact results from a depth - analog curve.

[exotic geyser]

what tachyon do exactly?it's the polling rate of 1OOOmhz like mouse?

[idle fern]

No, as mentioned it improves the scanning interval in sacrifice of analog precision. Like before on the normal mode only one multiplexer was scanned at a time. On Tachyon four are scanned together in a group. Also the RGB effects are disabled to reduce the communication to the LED controller to a minimum.

It's a while since I tested it. So it can be that nowadays it's scanned all the time in parallel, but I doubt it.

[exotic geyser]

some people say tachyon on is 1000 polling rate

the keyboard is 1000 polling rate tachyon on or off with no ddifference?

[idle fern]

Tachyon has nothing to do with the polling rate. Tachyon influences the scanning rate. The polling rate is at 1000 Hz all the time.

[exotic geyser]

ok it's 2 different things

[idle fern]

The polling rate is how often the PC should ask the keyboard to check if there is new data available. The scanning rate is the rate at which the keyboard actually scans for key presses.

[exotic geyser]

i read on thee discord somewhere i dont remember wooting keyboard is 5OO hertz when tachyon off and 1000 when on

[exotic geyser]

ok thx for clarification

[exotic geyser]

and both are measured with MHZ?

[exotic geyser]

you still here?

[idle fern]

All Wooting have a polling rate of 1 kHz. The scanning rate depends on which keyboard you have. For a W60HE it's advertised as 1 ms if Tachyon is on vs. 2 ms when off.
A W60HE only has four multiplexer and because four can be scanned at the same time all keys can be scanned in one rush if Tachyon in on.
A W2 HE has seven multiplexer, so it needs two cycles to scan all keys while one of the multiplexer can be scanned each cycle.

[exotic geyser]

ok so the 60he is faster with simple word?

[idle fern]

For the older Flaretech keyboards the scan rate was a bit faster than 1 kHz, like 1050 Hz.

[idle fern]

Yeah, a little bit because less keys need to be scanned.

[exotic geyser]

ok thanks again for all this info.i have 2 last question after i need to go sleep and let you do others things you spend already a lot of time to try to help me today.my keyboard backplate is little hot it's normaL?and you speak sooner about the analog curve for switch ecetera i use the typing profile he use the analog curve too for the actuation point?

cause the problem i have and we speak since a moment is not when i use analog profile it's with the default profile with tachyon on vs off

[idle fern]

For cross reference, this is the difference for me on the W2 LE. I used 35 g here.

[exotic geyser]

ok difference look bigger on the wootting he2

[idle fern]

It would depends how warm it is. Tachyon consumes additional power because then four multiplexer are always on. On a high brightness the LED controller also consumes some more power. The keyboard can consume up to 4 W which will dissipate in heat. So the LEDs will get warm too but a lot of it will go into the PCBA and so the case.

[idle fern]

Indeed, it's 5% vs. 17%.

[exotic geyser]

ok i understansd then it's normal its not too hot but i can feel it with my hand under the keyboard

[idle fern]

But be aware that I needed 3 more grams. So it can be that the dead zone at the start is just a bit worse and that the difference comes from the additional weight.

[exotic geyser]

I use 100 brightness so like you tell it's maybe normal with the power used by led and tachyon

[exotic geyser]

yes it's probably that

[idle fern]

This test isn't scientific in any way. As mentioned I don't have the proper testing equipment for that.

[exotic geyser]

i understand but i think it's a good start

[idle fern]

A real depth to analog curve would be needed.

[exotic geyser]

i hope Simon will come speak more about this here with all the discussion and test you do .i really need to go sleep tomorrow morning i will be dead for job

[idle fern]

A weight to analog curve would do the same. For both the switches to switch tolerance would matter.

[exotic geyser]

you right.on this word i will go sleep thaznks again for the time you take really appreciate have a goodnight see oyu soon and i hope Simon will complete all this thinking.goodnight man

[idle fern]

@warm cosmos As a short summary so far.

The users mentioned that the real actuation point changes depending on the Tachyon state while the other settings remain unchanged.
I was able to reproduce this issue on my W60HE as shown here: #1075339050011074620 message
And on my W2 LE as shown here: #1075339050011074620 message

The used test method is described here: #1075339050011074620 message

The question is if this behavior and inconsistency of the real actuation point is expected because it's kind of confusing that the needed force for the registration of a keypress for a low actuation point changes depending of the Tachyon mode state and so don't match the used settings.

[idle fern]

@exotic geyser Here are some thermal images of the back of the module.

100% brightness, Tachyon off

0% brightness, Tachyon on

Depending on the case the heat can be maybe transferred to that. On the original case you should not feel much heat due to the dampening mat. All the banked up heat should move up anyway.

[exotic geyser]

ok nice with this i understand.but what's the original case with dampening mat you speak?

[idle fern]

The case the module was put into when you bought your W60HE.

7. EPDM foam (dampening mat)
8. ABS Tray-mount case (original case)

If you use a metal case and a foam material which transfers heat then the case would most likely get warm after a while.

I don't think the original case would get warm. Kind of hart to validate because my laptop blows onto the left side of my keyboard. I don't want to create a thermal image for it because it would mean I need to put my keyboard to the side for a while and this means I can't really use it anymore. So it would be a hassle to do so.

[exotic geyser]

i have the original case andd with tachyon on i feel a good amount of heat.today i disable tachyon and the heat is less pronounced

[idle fern]

Where is the heat? On the left or right? On the front or back?

[exotic geyser]

on the left and middle

[idle fern]

So on the keycaps?

[exotic geyser]

cable side

[exotic geyser]

no just under the case

[idle fern]

Please mark it on a picture.

[exotic geyser]

have you a picture then i could mark

[idle fern]

You can make a photo with your smartphone.

[exotic geyser]

im in bed long story but i find a picture on google

[idle fern]

https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/61603672d19aa0d08107f39c/62c845ec92d61660f372b81f_update14-small-min.jpg

[idle fern]

Hmm, there should be nothing under the label. Not sure how the design has changed. My thermal images are from an earlier batch.

The right red circle can be explained by the MCU and the Tachyon. As shown in the thermal images Tachyon causes a transistor to heat up even more than the MCU.

[exotic geyser]

when i disasemble the keyboard i see like a burn on the dampening

[idle fern]

That is not good. Please provide pictures of the PCBA and the foam.

As mentioned I would expect that you should not really feel some heat there.

[exotic geyser]

i need to disasemble again and it's already hard for me to equilibrate the board.cause the screws are not equilibrate

[idle fern]

What?

[exotic geyser]

i inspect the pcb when i see this burn on foam but everything look clean

[idle fern]

If there are burn marks on the foam we should see something on the PCB.

[exotic geyser]

yes im not solo with this problem the pcb or i dont know the name is more inclined on the right side. cause they put a screw on the right side of the space bar and not on the left

[idle fern]

The board shout fit in the case without problems. It should not be hart to keep it balanced while inserting and screwing in the module.

[exotic geyser]

no mark on pcb i inspect with my phone flash when i disasemble it's maybe just a fabric mark

[idle fern]

I always start on the right side. So after the two screws are put in the module is already stable.

[exotic geyser]

some people have saùme problem and mansen if i remember say unscrew a little to equilibrate

[idle fern]

The case and this matches the explosion schematics from above. My units matches these pictures.

[exotic geyser]

i do same but with my case i need a lot of micro adjustement to equilibrate

[idle fern]

This maybe means that the foam isn't well cut or placed.

Or that a stand off isn't correctly inserted.

Normally all the stand offs should be on the same height plane.

[exotic geyser]

i try everyplacement possible and the only way for me is micro screw adjustement and i must don't use the screw on the right side of space bar

[idle fern]

So please also provide a picture of the case.

[exotic geyser]

what is stand off

[idle fern]

In your case the plastic bars with the metal inserts where the screws are screwed in which are creating a height difference from the bottom of the case.

[exotic geyser]

ok for me everything look good inside except in my opinion the board need a screw on the left side of the space bar to equilibrate.for mye it's logik

6 screws not 5

[idle fern]

If I push the board flexes a bit on the left lower corner but everything is fine.

So I would say the five screws are enough if there isn't a problem with the foam or case.

[exotic geyser]

when you look your keyboard from from you dont see the spacebar inclined on the right side?

[idle fern]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Looking from the front side the keycaps are aligned for me all the way through from left to right.

The left side is maybe 1 mm higher than the right side. But the most left screw is damaged for me.

[exotic geyser]

for me the left side is 2 or 3 mm higher

with mmy micro adjustement it's ok

[idle fern]

Hmm, seems off to me. Did the unit came this way?

[exotic geyser]

yes

[idle fern]

I'm looking towards the pictures, maybe we can find something.

[exotic geyser]

i try to find you the picture of the guy with same problem

[idle fern]

No, please do the pictures yourself.

I need to see how your keyboards looks and not from a different user.

[exotic geyser]

i don't want again disasemble it i spend more hour to fix problem than use it

[idle fern]

Then I can't help you anymore. So you need to start a RMA or live with it as is.

[exotic geyser]

i think you can understand

[idle fern]

Because it would not make sense that I put any more time here myself. I think you can understand.

[exotic geyser]

i make support post post all time i have a problem . and im feeling ignored except by you .now i have in part fix myself and like i tell you usualy im plug and play guy but i pay and wait 3 months for this keyboard and i like it but my copy have problems so im little sad.you help me i appreciate but you must understand im done

[exotic geyser]

and i dont coùmplain just say facts with my posts

[exotic geyser]

i spend hours to aligned my keyboard i dont want to unscrew again just to take a photo.my bad is to not take photo at the good moment and it's my mistake

[idle fern]

I can't do anything without your assistance. So if you don't have the 10 mins to remove the module again and taking the pictures so I can see how it looks like for you it don't make sense anymore for me to think what may or may not happens. Without data it would be only waste of time for me and only just wild guesses.

The misalignment alone maybe is already a problem of it's own and maybe worth to request a replacement. But maybe it can be fixed easily. Who knows... Pictures maybe can help, at least there is a chance.

Like a picture of just the misalignment should only take a minute.

[exotic geyser]

dissable takee 1mn i already do 10 times .realignate and screw micro adjustement take a lot more

but np i understand your argument thx for the time spend

to try to help me.it's my only keyboard i give my old one to a friend so if i rma i have no keyboard

[idle fern]

It don't look that off to me. I assume this is after you correcting it. So it would not represent the actual problem.
Also I thought you are using a TV. This don't look like a TV to me.

[hazy lintel]

I think i have the same problem too. When tachyon mode is on, 0.1mm feels like 0.5mm. think they can fix it with an update.

[exotic geyser]

https://discord.com/channels/167181566978555904/1075494174545149982

[exotic geyser]

it's not mine. it's a joke i hope?

[idle fern]

I'm out here, bye...

[exotic geyser]

i tell you i cannot disasemble again so i find you the post with same problem

[exotic geyser]

and you say no problem on the picture we clearly see the spacebar is inclined

and my keyboard was exactly like this when i receive it

[exotic geyser]

pfff i loose hours and sleep time for this

[exotic geyser]

yes we can hope but not too much im waiting Simon feedback

[ripe tiger]

We are currently looking into this issue, we will get back to you soon with more information

[exotic geyser]

ok thank you.Glad this issue is taken seriously.im waiting the information then.

[ripe tiger]

At the moment, tachyon mode does unfortunately come with this compromise. We are currently working towards optimizing this.

This is not just the case with your board, rather a general limitation of the tachyon mode in its current implementation

[exotic geyser]

ok i understand thanks for shared informations here really appreciate can you inform here when the optimisation will be done?

[steep crater]

after reading this i tested my keyboard, mainly use wasd on 0.1 and w,a,d keys all have a similarly fast instant reaction whereas s key takes a bit more force

I do have both avr and arm version, i'd say my s key is better on my avr. However I also know all springs are not perfectly weighted so that could contribute to the actuation

[unreal blaze]

I’m having the same issue

[steep crater]

Looking forward to this.

[hoary gorge]

are you using a newer version of wootility than the latest publicly available one? I'm getting this "profile is for a newer Wootility version" error on both my desktop Wootility and the web one.

version on both is 4.4.13

wanted to try this to see if Tachyon mode increases my actuation distance, I use either RGB off or 1% on the two profiles I use just to distinguish them and couldn't tell if having it on caused an increased actuation point from feel alone

[left hawk]

most likely beta

[hoary gorge]

fwiw I can't tell a difference in key actuation at 0.1mm with tachyon mode on/off, for comparison I set it to actual 0.4mm with both modes and could tell that it was obviously different than 0.1mm

is the "fundamental limitation" thing that Bexin mentioned absolute? I tested with RGB off if that changes anything. everything stock inc. cable

[opaque flicker]

I have this same “problem”. I was in the socks batch. It doesn’t really matter to me and I only noticed it on the caps lock key. But with tachyon mode on the actuation point increases. I only have a Mac so I’m unsure if I can help to troubleshoot. Lmk if I can be of assistance. Also, I didn’t read this entire mega thread, so excuse me if a solution has already been offered.

[opaque flicker]

Is the conclusion that this behavior is the nature of tachyon mode as it exists at the present moment?

That seems fine given the nature of analog mechanisms

Just curious

[left hawk]

currently (according to the lead firmware dev) yes

[magic skiff]

ok but the team is working to optimize tachyon mode and maybe fix the actuation point not accurate right?i have the same problem others people have and i read Bexin say team working to optimize this

[left hawk]

we are

[magic skiff]

can you confirm when the optimisation will done here then i have no need to check all channel all day thanks

[magic skiff]

ok perfect can you connfirm here when it's done that can be more easy

[ripe tiger]

Sure sure, it may take some time too, we will let you know about any news. I think good way will be, anyone who wants a ping, react to my message. And best don’t send too many messages under so it’s visible, and I can ping everyone then

[magic skiff]

ok i understand thanks i will wait and appreciate your reactivity

[steep crater]

I’ll just put an emoji on your message

[exotic geyser]

Ok perfect happy to hear that i react to your message and im waiting your ping when optimisation are done.i speak for all people in this post and say thank you for your professionalism

[exotic geyser]

just a message to keep the post alive

[wet wren]

No need to keep pinging the thread if there are no updates. It's not forgotten.

[exotic geyser]

Ok but this morning he was removed from my history so i think he was close or something

[ripe tiger]

Threads automatically close after a week, but dw, as soon as there is an update, writing a new message will reopen it, so it will appear when I ping you, once there are updates on this

[exotic geyser]

oh ok thx for info i don't know this it's ok then.sorry for the ping and im waiting for the updates then .have a nice day 😉

[exotic geyser]

I see in your wootility alpha you say tachyon mode optimisation or something like this.it's a fix for the problem of actuation point not accurate with tachyon on or not related?and have you any news or progress about this problem?

[ripe tiger]

If you are referring to the newest alpha version I believe this would not be related, though I may be wrong

[exotic geyser]

Yes i referring to this alpha version.ok so it's not related thanks for info.have you idea when a fix for the not accurate actuation point will be release? cause im hurry to use full potiential of the keyboard

[warm cosmos]

It's still being worked on, no ETA yet

[exotic geyser]

Ok i understand .we still waiting then .thanks for fast response

[steep crater]

Does the new update fix this issue?

[pseudo wigeon]

feels good to me

[exotic geyser]

not for me and this normal the tachyon improvement in this update is not about the problem i speak in this support post.but i speak today with wooting's Simon and they work hard to fix this issue.soon we will have good improvement.and he will post here when he will have something to share

[steep crater]

Thanks for the update appreciated

[exotic geyser]

no problem it's normal you are welcome .community utility 😉

[reef meadow]

i‘m getting my wooting soon, should i not use tachyon?

[exotic geyser]

you can use tachyon but if you want really accurate actuation point tachyon off is ok.but like i say wooting working on improvement in tachyon enabled

[exotic geyser]

any progress about the fix of the actuation point not accurate?

[left hawk]

@warm cosmos would know best. i just dont know if he might have forgotten to post here

[exotic geyser]

ah ok can you remind him ?i would really appreciate it

[left hawk]

i think hell see the tag and check it out when he got time

[exotic geyser]

ok thanks 😉

[warm cosmos]

I'm actively working on the issue, it's at the top of my list atm

[exotic geyser]

nice happy to ear that ;)don't forget to post here when everything is done have a nice day and thanks for your work

[barren portal]

Has this been resolved?

[warm cosmos]

Not yet sadly, UwU Wootility has taken a ton of my time and energy the past few weeks. We have some exiciting developments on it, so I hope I'll have enough time to get it wrapped up ASAP

[maiden zephyr]

Pls fix this asap pls.

[exotic geyser]

Ok i can understand you work on a lot of things but please do it as soon as possible then we can use the keyboard at real full potential .btw thank you for keeping us informed and thanks for your work

[barren portal]

Thanks for the update 🙂 Hope it can be soon as I am really looking forward to using wooting tachyon without compromises!

[pseudo wigeon]

So does this mean as of the moment it’s faster and more responsive to use tachyon off

[exotic geyser]

Not 100 % faster but probably more consistent

[pseudo wigeon]

So it’s slower but the actuation is more consistent

[exotic geyser]

The actuation point is not accurate so on some Keys it's faster and others slower hard to explain but if you want accuracy and consistency tachyon off is a good choice.and soon wooting's Simon will improve that.he is working on it

[pseudo wigeon]

Gotcha

[pseudo wigeon]

Have you did any testing with it off? And found that all keys are the same?

[exotic geyser]

Yes i do a lot of test it's for that reason i open this ticket.In my case yes. tachyon off all Keys actuation look accurate

[pseudo wigeon]

Gotcha thanks for the catch up

[exotic geyser]

Np you are welcome 😉 i hope the fix will come soon

[reef meadow]

can confirm what he said, i also noticed inconsistencies after playing 0.1 rapid trigger before and after tachyon off.
on was inconsistent and didnt feel like accurate 0.1 so i left it disabled

[exotic geyser]

Yes exactly some people don't notice the problem but if they test diligently it's easy to see the thing. but wooting team will optimise this asap we need to wait a little.and we will be informed by Simon here

[pseudo wigeon]

Idk why but mine feels more consistent with tachyon on

[exotic geyser]

Like i say some keys can be faster and the problem can be more or less on each wooting keyboard.btw happy if you have or feel no problem .

[pseudo wigeon]

I’m wondering do you have any 3td party programs at ALL running background that could potentially change something

There was a problem with the Wooting before not being able to connect properly from 3rd party RGB apps

[exotic geyser]

No third party program i already test everything.other pc other wooting keyboard different cable ecetera the problem is perceptible.when tachyon on the travel distance when key press is not accurate.the problem exist and wooting Know it and work to fix it or improve tachyon on. lot of people have the same problem if for you it's ok it's a good thing btw thanks to try to help i appreciate man.if you read the entire post you will have a better view of the problem

[pseudo wigeon]

I see

[light beacon]

Any ETA on this? Other boards with RT are popping up so this would be a good to fix now before they start testing them vs each other

[vivid lintel]

Looks like UwU took priority over this but there's still some progress behind the scenes? Hopefully there's an update now on where it stands

[warm cosmos]

I'm going to be spending a lot of time on it this week, things had been moving behind the scenes and they have started to come together now. I made a lot of progress today and I hope to have a testing/beta build this week

[meager jetty]

great to hear

[light beacon]

Super great to hear

[exotic geyser]

You rock ;)don't forger to post here then everybody can be informed when the fix or beta ecetera are up
Thanks again

[warm cosmos]

Hey all, thanks for your patience. I now have a testing build that you all can try! It's not perfect yet, we still have some adjustments to do to fully get it to where we want, so you may get some weird edge case issues. However, it already has a really significant improvement to the analog signal in Tachyon mode (in our testing, it's almost more sensitive than non-Tachyon now).

To try it out right now, you'll need to use the testing build. Later in the week, we may have a beta build to simplify things.

1. Go to https://wootility.io/?test-builds=true
2. Connect keyboard
3. Go to Settings -> Updates
4. Click “Get test firmware” under your device
5. When loaded, select v2.7.1-test.signal.0 - ...
6. Click “Install firmware” and follow the steps

Let me know how you get on!

[meager jetty]

Thanks, will try later

[exotic geyser]

Hello thanks for this i will try this rhis when im back at home in the week-end.thanks for your job happy to see the improvement

[light beacon]

will test today 🙂

[lethal spruce]

I think it works for me

[surreal sand]

I just tested it and noticed significant improvement.
No more chatter on low rapid trigger settings either.

I'll keep testing and update this message if i encounter any weird issues.

[meager jetty]

Seems very fast

Atleast im not really able to notice a difference between Tachyon on and off

[mossy sentinel]

Been playing with it for a good chunk now, have yet to encounter those weird occurrences I did before

Simon is the real mvp

[pseudo wigeon]

Can confirm, its way better now

[exotic geyser]

so first thing thanks for the update i test this so the actuation point now seems accurate and 0.1 MM tachyon on or off look ok but i cannot superglide anymore with my dks setting.im used to have 8/10 superglide accuracy and now it's more like 2/10 i test different dks profile ecetera and the problem is here

and when i go back to normal 2.7.1 the problem disapear

[warm cosmos]

Huh, interesting, I'll have a look with @pallid hearth as he's quite familiar with the superglides

[exotic geyser]

ok thanks.i test 5 time with 2.7.1 signal 0 and 2.7.1 classic and i can clearly see the difference.with 1 hour shooting range training's stand superglide only practice

[pseudo wigeon]

Do you think it’s because the actuation point is just more sensitive to whatever the points where set at and your not fully use to it? As well have you tried mutiple superglide settings with the same results? More then the 2 you mentioned?

[glad horizon]

i accidentally updated mine after updating the wootility app and now i dont have access to the test builds. i've tried it on opera gx too and it's also the same.

do i have to fully reset my keyboard or is there a fix to this?

this is what it looks like on opera

ok i did it and it still doesn't work

also tried to use the restore method but its still the same

[pseudo wigeon]

I’d make a ticket bout it in discord I can’t fathom the problem

[glad horizon]

so i guess for those who have this build on their wooting i suggest they don't update cause the new firmware is the same like the previous one where tachyon mode's actuation point is still innacurate and the new wootility v4.6.9 bugs out like crazy when launched

look like this

can someone send me the previous version of wootility

[pseudo wigeon]

@glad horizon you don’t use a 3rd party software for LED lights do you

[glad horizon]

nope

no other peripherals i own have rgb

made a ticket regarding this issue

hope they can help me out

[pseudo wigeon]

I wouldn’t use opera ether

I have a feeling that might have something to do with it but I’m not sure at this point

[glad horizon]

i use both just to make sure it wasnt one or the other browser bugging out

[pseudo wigeon]

I think wootility is only suppose to be used on specific search engines im pretty sure

[glad horizon]

but i used opera for installing the test firmware and it worked so i think it must have to do something with the new firmware

yeah, I read it's chrome, opera, and edge

[pseudo wigeon]

What I don’t understand is there was a other guy on this thread who could update back to his original firmware and the test firmware without problem so I feel like something is interfering with the interface

Best just to wait for a reply on the ticket with someone who is more software inclined

[glad horizon]

I did that before updating to the latest firmware (v2.7.2), I was comparing the normal v2.7.1 and the test build v.2.7.1. I was installing back and forth to confirm that the test build was faster with no problems until a few minutes ago when I updated Wootility and the firmware to v.2.7.2.

and now im stuck on v.2.7.2 cause by default after restoring or restting, Wootility will flash the latest firmware onto your keyboard.

[pseudo wigeon]

@warm cosmos little update ive noticed ghost inputs as of late of the test build

[exotic geyser]

I test more than 1 hour now. And lot of superglide setting or combination and i still have the problem.in early i think like you maybe im not used but after a full Day of training thé accuracy of superglide is not the same.and when i put back the normal 2.7.1 build i can superglide 8/10

[warm cosmos]

In this case, you can't see it because you need to open Wootility web with the special link to access test builds

[warm cosmos]

For this, I may have broken it and have got a fix ready now 😅

[warm cosmos]

this is super weird, this is the desktop version right? Do you always get this?

[warm cosmos]

The firmware will dynamically learn the signal, but it stops once an input is detected. So if you reach the ghost input stage, currently, you should replug to reset it and then it should be fine

[glad horizon]

with the previous version no, it was smooth

[glad horizon]

alright, can't wait for it to be fixed

[glad horizon]

yes, i forgot to record when i used the link you provided but it's basically the same like the one in opera. i tried the same thing on my other pc but the results are the same. on edge, chrome, and opera.

[pseudo wigeon]

its what i did works great now

[warm cosmos]

Build with it fix is being pushed out currently, v4.6.10

[warm cosmos]

wootility.io should be live with the fix now, just give it a couple Ctrl+F5 refreshes to be sure

[glad horizon]

alright

[pseudo wigeon]

@warm cosmos should we all do the update for the fix

[glad horizon]

finally fixed it

waiting for the new version now

[exotic geyser]

@warm cosmosand about the superglide thing have you find a track with Darren?

[warm cosmos]

The Wootility release is just fixing up some stuff, so no rush if you're unaffected, but may as well update

[warm cosmos]

I haven't been able to dig into it with Darren yet sadly

[exotic geyser]

no problem i understand.keep me informed when you find time to look about it thanks for your job btw 😉

[pallid hearth]

On the "ghost input" topic:

Keys on this test build can get stuck in a ghostly "on" state, although rare and often only certain keys
The best conditions for this to occur is using 0.1mm actuation, or just Rapid Trigger with a high upstroke setting in continuous mode
The most likely keys to be influenced are keys with stabilisers (such as shift), but it can also be a random key somewhere on the keyboard

Best you reconnect the keyboard (replug usb cable without touching the keys) to recalibrate it. That will likely solve it for you otherwise feel free to send any more feedback on the issue
we are of course going to continue to improve on this and find a proper solution for this. for now manually recalibrating the keyboard when you see ghostly behaviour should do the trick

We don't expect "ghost inputs" unless you are changing the brightness above 70% in Tachyon mode, or use a long USB cable that brings power draw issues
(however that same phenomenon should happen on previous firmware, so we're not too interested in that here)

[mossy sentinel]

So we can get off the test build and update to 2.7.2... Or are people still experience less sensitivity compared to 2.7.1...? I have yet to update

[pseudo wigeon]

i updated feels good still hoping that he pushed whatever fixes made to the analog signal in with the 4.6.10 update

[glad horizon]

I will try to test it out after this. I'm on the test build right now and I still feel that it's way faster than 2.7.2.

[glad horizon]

tested it and the test build is still faster

[exotic geyser]

2.7.1 test signal zero is faster and more accurate actuation point with tachyon on than 2.7.2?

[glad horizon]

yes, with tachyon mode on, test build 2.7.1 test singal 0 is more accurate

[mossy sentinel]

Figured, I will stay on the test till Simon pushes this out to stable

Thanks fella's

[exotic geyser]

ok thanks i will wait then

[glad horizon]

you can try it out for yourself by going to a keyboard polling rate tester website and just scraping the keyboard gently without tachyon mode then turn on tachyon mode and repeat it. you'll get more inputs when you turned off tachyon mode because the actuation point isn't accurate with it on. But on the test build you will get around the same number of inputs with both tachyon mode on or off.

i didn't test it out like that but it's a good way to check for yourself if you don't want any hassle

[exotic geyser]

thanks for tips but i trust you and in all case i need to wait Simon and Darren look about the problem i have with the test build and dks superglide accuracy

[glad horizon]

I've never really thought about using the dks for superglides before. I've always used macros. Gonna try it out after this!

[pallid hearth]

It just works for me

your timing might just be off because you are now using a different actuation point

even when I was on apex over the weekend I had not noticed any trouble with my manual superglides

#1071597896581001297

Otherwise send us your profile code and I'll give that a try

[exotic geyser]

@pallid hearthfirst thing thanks to try to help me here but the timing is just press space bar on the top of climb so i cannot fail or not at this point .i test different dks actuation point and dks apex profile all the day and still not effective .if i use the old build 2.7.1 i have no problem at all so for me something look off but don,t know what

[slow trail]

Any luck with this Tachyon/actuation point issue yet, @pallid hearth/@warm cosmos?

[warm cosmos]

#1075339050011074620 message

[barren portal]

is test firmware still recommended? or does 2.7.2 include it?

[left hawk]

2.7.2 doesnt include it as far as i know

also simon is the lead firmware dev so hed know

[warm cosmos]

@barren portal 2.7.2 does not include the changes. I'm hoping to release a beta with the signal improvements ASAP

[barren portal]

Thank you

[slow trail]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-musclebob-buffpants-anchor-arms-gif-19663294

[left hawk]

@safe flax #1075339050011074620 message

[boreal elk]

have you looked into the issue where you lightly press a key down where it inputttttts a tttton at the same ttttttitme? its doing with my t key right now

testing in both 2.7.1.0 test signal and normal 2.7.2 I have the same issue, its just not as bad in 2.7.1 (better performance in 2.7.1) the white still makes tachon mode suffer at the .05mm float point thats with tachon cap

[naive jewel]

So all i have to do is upgrade to v2.7.1 and thats it?

[wet wren]

You need to use the test version specifically

[vivid lintel]

I'm sure @warm cosmos can speak for the pending changes and where the team currently stands with this

[slow trail]

[tender meadow]

i have 0 clue about the subject but i like your criticism (mby little bit aggressive but i can understand why if it is like you say)

[wet wren]

Simon's already in the thread, so there's no need for me to ping anyone regarding this

[idle juniper]

I can understand the frustration, especially if you are aware and it's always at the edge of something coming.

This ultimately is my responsibility and fault for it (still) not being amended. It's in my power to move priorities and I have not pushed this high up the list amidst other developments. This has made developments sluggish until about 2 months back when this was shot to the top of the list.

Does this mean nothing was done since February? No, that is not the case. Simon and Darren have been chipping at this issue for months. And at multiple points has it been flipped around when new discoveries were made. But it never got a 100% the time to breath and then push it all the way to the finish line. I am, honestly, also not sure if we had the capability to push it through the finish line earlier this year.

The reason is that we've learned an incredible amount of new things that has helped us better understand the underlying causes and what can be done to solve, and even improve it. See this as digging deeper and deeper into our understanding of an undocumented terrain.

End of the day it isn't a "spend some time in the code and come with a quick fix" because a quick fix might fix it for a handful of people, but not everyone, nor guarantee it doesn't cause new issues.

That's because we'd be tinkering with firmware fundamentals and every keyboard has it's own unique characteristics due to:

1. Manufacturing tolerances (switch magnet position, hall sensor position, magnet strength, hall sensitivity, pcb thickness, switch installation)
2. User's direct environment (EMI by electronic devices, weather)
3. User's computer setup/quality (motherboard, usb ports, usb hubs, kvm, cables etc.)

Minor differences stack up together, causing unique scenarios that aren't applicable broadly on every keyboard.

What that means is that we need a broader understanding and a far more flexible firmware that is able to tailor the input to output behavior on a per key basis based on live data (things change over time). Far more complex than calibrating the keys and mapping it out to a certain expected behavior.

This makes large rollouts also more scary and slower.

What you might have noticed that we have released incremental improvements to deal with points 1 to 3, with the aim to improve overall stability. Also before February. From what I remember, it's one of these updates that also caused Tachyon mode to take a hit in analog accuracy (for stability). We just didn't expect it would remain for so long.

All that said, Simon and Darren have made incredible progress, a beta is going to roll out within this month. It has a few more improvements over v2.7.1-test.signal.0 firmware , but this is fundamentally the firmware improvement. We haven't reached a cap in this development, and know there is more we can do, but this is a leap forward in what is currently in Public.

Lastly, I need to emphasize that Tachyon was made so we can push the limits at the expense of other features. If performance is affected by things such as full white RGB at any %, then we will limit you here and disable it.

We'd then mark this as the limitation and aim to improve. This usually means further innovation in hardware/firmware development.

Also lol. Time has passed so fast.

[idle juniper]

It comes down to that if tachyon mode is not delivering on the best performance because other features or settings are influencing it, then we limit the other features.

[idle juniper]

This issue for reference. All white LED draws far more power than any other color (it needs to turn on all 3 led color to get white ) and exceeds/nullifies the purpose of our brightness cap.

[boreal elk]

So far the test version helps but there is still the occasional triple input but its almost impossible to get pure spam

[idle juniper]

Tachyon mode, 0.1mm actuation and 0.15 rapid?

[boreal elk]

Correct

255 230 0 at 70% is color profile

[exotic geyser]

@warm cosmos@pallid hearth today i discover a thing on the signal test build when i switch profile using FN+enter shortcut some key are spammed usually the W and V key,that not happen with 2.7.2 build have you idea whats wrong and have you the same problem?

tachyon or off same problem

[pallid hearth]

I could also simulate a similar experiences on the live test build with the most sensitive settings by leaving my keyboard on an idle state for a long period of time on a all-white RGB profile (with or without tachyon)
Next build should have much more consistencies there

[exotic geyser]

ok for me that happen with test build ,rgb on rgb off tachyon on tachyon off

[pallid hearth]

here is a handy webpage that can show you your key events and history: https://config.qmk.fm/#/test

[pallid hearth]

feel free to share the profile code if you want, I'll load it onto mine to crosscheck

[exotic geyser]

d5ea08e1cd07a30305ad1b4588fdfab7b5d9

[pallid hearth]

can you also share the profile you switch to?

[exotic geyser]

if i press a key after i switch profile and the key is spammed the spam stop

149e27dd82c01b7b13c7a8f83e29c5323eab

the normal rapid profile

[pallid hearth]

yep I get almost the same result, thanks for sharing :)

[exotic geyser]

ok when you switch profile you have w v or ; key spammed right?

[pallid hearth]

for my device I only get it to press v

[exotic geyser]

ok strange and for me thats not happen on the 2.7.2 build ;but happy if im not solo with this then you can work on it .can you make me a sign when you find a fix with the same performance with the test signal build

[exotic geyser]

the problem only happen to you with my 2 profile combination or no matter?

[pallid hearth]

for me it only happens with the combination of those two profiles
I'll have to look into it to figure out why that is

[exotic geyser]

ok keep me informed here when you find something i really appreciate .thanks for your reactivity 😉

[barren portal]

thx for all your work on this btw

[vivid lintel]

Are we still on track for the beta to be rolled out this month?

[dim merlin]

is this solved

[exotic geyser]

not totally.signal test signal build 2.7.1 improve tachyon mode actuation point not accurate but Darren work to improve more and work on a issue with profile switch and maybe other things i didnt know

[warm cosmos]

Yes, I hope to get a build out ASAP, just got delayed a bit as I was moving countries

We already have improvements on top of the test build which should resolve some of the known issues

[dim merlin]

so how do i revert to firmware 2.7.1 i’m on 2.7.2 as of rn

[exotic geyser]

#1075339050011074620 message

but with this build if you swap between TYPING PROFILE and RAPID PROFILE you will have key spam problem but the tachyon not accurate is improved

[exotic geyser]

everything clear?

[dim merlin]

yeah thank you the latency seems to be better i like it thanks

[exotic geyser]

np you are welcome. yep accuracy of actuation point with tachyon mode is improved on the signal test build just waiting for final build for more improvements and fix for the key spam problem and then we can finaly close this post

[dim merlin]

accidentally switched my profile how do i get rid of key spammed or is just gon be stuck

[exotic geyser]

click on the key spammed stop the spam for me

or just plug unplug keyboard

[dim merlin]

lastly any idea why it keeps on auto pressing shift it messing up all my games because it sprint then stop sprinting

[exotic geyser]

you have this problem when you switch profile or only since you update to the test signal build?

[dim merlin]

it only happened with the test signal build

[exotic geyser]

and this happen before you accidentely switching the profile?

in my case after the build test signal my keyboard actuation become more accurate and the key really sensitive at 0.1mm but it's normal but no shift or other keypress unintentional except wjhen i switch profile like i tell you sooner.if you up the actuation point on the shift key this still happen?

[exotic geyser]

@dim merlinproblem solved?

[warm cosmos]

#📰│wootility_updates message Beta release is out 🔥

[exotic geyser]

this fix the problem about key spam i speak with darren sooner in this post?

[warm cosmos]

My expectation would be that it would, but you'll have to check yourself

This version will save the calibrated properties on a per profile basis, so it should now go straight into a good state when switching to a profile that has been calibrated

[exotic geyser]

ok i will try and give you a feedback thanks for sharing here all the progress i appreciate

[viscid stream]

yessssssssss

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS CHAT

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS

[exotic geyser]

dont rush i see some people having problem after update

@viscid streamhttps://discord.com/channels/167181566978555904/1187862357720977530

[viscid stream]

ofc

[viscid stream]

i NEVER had spamming problems once or key problems

so i should be fine for now

[exotic geyser]

ok perfect 😉

[viscid stream]

v2.7.3-beta.0 right

i cant tell if i feel a difference or not yet lol

feels more responsive

[exotic geyser]

you use the new beta 4.6.12?

[viscid stream]

yea, the firmware v2.7.3-beta.0

[exotic geyser]

web version right?

[viscid stream]

yea

[exotic geyser]

2.7.3 is a improved version of 2.7.1 signal test improving the accuracy of actuation point when tachyon is ON and effectively its more accurate and responsive but for me and darren from wooting that had a problem of keys spamming when you switch profile between typing profile and rapid profile

[warm cosmos]

Do you get it on 2.7.3-beta.0 as well?

[exotic geyser]

i can test it with no problem? cause i read on feedback 4.6.12 some people have some problem with shif key ecetera and i dont want to mess with my keyboard

[exotic geyser]

i take the risk for the moment the problem look to be fix

[exotic geyser]

do you ask me about the spam key or the actuation point improvment?

[viscid stream]

He is asking if your keys are spamming on the beta firmware

[exotic geyser]

the key spamming look to be fix on 2.7.3. beta 0

[exotic geyser]

@warm cosmosi desactivate tachyon for test and most of keys have deep actuation point now(like 0.1MM is 2MM or more) i re enable tachyon and the problem is still here

[reef meadow]

fr

[reef meadow]

Ye Thus

Like bro it's getting worse per update

[exotic geyser]

you have same problem?

[reef meadow]

Ye\

Like when switching to 1.0 to all my switches the switches I set to accuate at 0.1 accuate at 1.0 or more

[exotic geyser]

ok its late today.when Simon or Darren from wooting will come back from christmas holydays they will probably try to fix that.i already ping him about this

[reef meadow]

Also the 0.1 is still not accurate

[exotic geyser]

for the moment the best build look like this one have you already test it?

#1075339050011074620 message

2.7.1 test signal

[reef meadow]

ye

feels like exact same for me

No not at all it feels like 4 or smth

[exotic geyser]

ok its another problem i think you need to create another support thread cause its look like it's different problem

[reef meadow]

When u have tachyon off in the new version is it 0.1?

Its like .4 in 2.7.1

No clue never tested older versions

.1 with it tach on or off

.1 with tach off is perfectly fine in 2.7.1 but with it on it's not really accurate

Is it for you not accurate with it on?

it feels like 4 when on 2.7.3 off

[exotic geyser]

yes close to accurate on 2.7.1

[reef meadow]

^

Hope they fix the issue where it's not accurate with it on

[exotic geyser]

for me on on 2.7.3 ON or OFF its more like 2 OR 3 MM

[exotic geyser]

yes we will see

[reef meadow]

It feels more stable but instead of 0.1 its like 0.6 - 0.7

[exotic geyser]

maybe a calibration problem we will see when wooting Simon will come back

[glad horizon]

I have an issue with the test build occurring lately, sometimes I cant enter my pin when I want to sign into my pc. I'd have to unplug and replug the keyboard or use the on-screen keyboard from the accessibility menu if replugging the keyboard doesn't work.

and I also notice lately i get more frequent ghost inputs

[warm cosmos]

@exotic geyser @reef meadow With this build, you can't just change tachyon mode and test immediately. The keyboard progressively learns the signal for every key while the keyboard is idle, and changing tachyon mode will reset it. So if you want to compare, you need to have one profile which is tachyon on and one that is off and switch between (and leave them idle for a bit to calibrate)

[exotic geyser]

thanks for your reply ah ok you change the calibration system i understand ok i will test this after the christmas.the calibration is made all time the keyboard is plug or powered (from first boot or idle mode)or one time and after we are ok forever?

[warm cosmos]

It will continuously learn while it is powered on. In this build, it will save the profiles' learned parameters when you switch profiles. So once you have learned once on a profile and it has saved, it will load it immediately every time that profile is loaded. But it will still do it when it's idle to ensure that it has the most accurate calibration for all keys
However, if you change tachyon mode on the profile, it will reset it and have to learn from scratch again. (Which is a fairly normal thing to do, so I need to make that quicker to respond and not fully reset)

[exotic geyser]

ok thakns for clarifications and explanation.last question can i save my settings on wootility immediately or i need to wait all the calibration process is done before i click on the SAVE button?

[warm cosmos]

You can save it immediately. You should just press the mode key or profile key to make sure it saves the calibration

[exotic geyser]

ok thanks i will test this after christmas cause yesterday all my keys have not accurate actuation point but its probably caused by this new calibration system.and i try to use the new toggle on the FN key ,it work but i have not the rgb color i choose when its toggle. merry christmas to you 🎅

[warm cosmos]

@exotic geyser Merry Christmas to you too!

Btw, do you have RGB layers? (As in holding Fn gives you different per key colors?) Because that will override any indicator for that. (And right now it will use the white colour from the toggle key, not the colour for the Fn toggle, that's something I should have a look at)

[exotic geyser]

no when i press or hold fn i have not different per key color.when i toggle fn key i have white color on fn key and i put blue in the little circle

[warm cosmos]

I see, i know what's happening, it's a bit of a gap/inconsistency in the UX right now. I'll keep it in mind and try and get it to behave as expected

[exotic geyser]

my caps lock when toggle is blue like i want but fn key is white and that will be perfect if i can have blue too.ok thanks to work on that too .sorry to give you lot of job since i opened this post 😅 but it's for the improvement of the keyboard

[warm cosmos]

No worries, the weirdness you're hitting with it isn't great and needs improvement. So it's a good thing to highlight :)

[exotic geyser]

happy to ear that.merry christmas and thanks again for the job done and keep improving the keyboard 😉

[slow trail]

Thank you so much for all your hard work, @warm cosmos. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you and your loved ones!

[zinc aurora]

been saying this ahhaahah glade someone else noticed this

[haughty silo]

Hello so yesterday I disabled tachyon mode and my keyboard is back to responsive asf

My keyboard with it on felt slower than my logitech g pro keyboard

But yesterday when disabling tachyon mode the keyboard now is so responsive that i miss click some times so if anyone has problem with latency or delay just disable tachy mode

[exotic geyser]

@haughty silo if you use tachyon ON and you totaly disable the rgb do you have latency improvement?

[exotic geyser]

Notice what?

[left hawk]

are you even using the beta?

[pliant pawn]

So should 60he be turned off or turned on tachyon mode?

I'm very confused

[exotic geyser]

Turned On for better latency

[pliant pawn]

Which version has this problem?

[exotic geyser]

Dont know, the Guy with this problem don't explain more

[dim merlin]

what more accurate and faster the 2.7.3beta or the 2.7.1testsignal

[exotic geyser]

I am still testing don't hesitate to share your experience

[viscid stream]

cant tell

[idle juniper]

The beta should include improvements on top of signal

[dim merlin]

might just be the calibration thing but i feel like test signal felt a little bit faster just based off of what i feel and the inputs

[exotic geyser]

I have same feeling and actuation point accuracy look better on 2.7.1 test signal .need more time on it to be sure and like you say it's maybe the new calibration thing

[pallid hearth]

#1187862357720977530

after update you may need to leave the keyboard idle for a bit to learn new calibration

~20s at most

[exotic geyser]

yep Simon explain that before holidays .but with 2.7.3 you change the actuation point accuracy compared to 2.7.1 signal test build or you change only the calibration method?

[reef meadow]

How can you change it

[exotic geyser]

change what ?

[reef meadow]

The accuracy of actuation

[exotic geyser]

i ask Darren from wooting if they improve or change the actuation accuracy between the 2 firmware

[pallid hearth]

changed some things about calibration hopefully making it faster and store the past calibration when switching profiles (hopefully also having better accuracy right away instead of needing to wait for it)
if you try the build out there send feedback in the beta channel so we can keep track of what build you're running

we do currently have a known problem when changing the brightness though, so do use it as a beta build it is definitely not tournament ready at this stage

reconnecting the keyboard when anything weird happens should be the fastest fix if you do need to get things going agian quickly

[exotic geyser]

ok thanks hope we can have in a close future a final stable build and close this support thread.

[boreal elk]

I switched from avr to arm and it helped push brightness limits for stability

[boreal elk]

100% white brightness and no actuation issues :D so happy

[exotic geyser]

double click on my keys and in majority on the space key since the update of 2.7.3 firmware and same behaviour on 2.7.1 signal test build i roll back to the oldest firmware i find 2.6.21 and the problem disapear.it's seem related to rapid trigger

[exotic geyser]

2.7.2 build work too

[exotic geyser]

the build 2.7.3 beta 2 improve the actuation point accuracy and sensitivity but do something wrong with the rapid trigger lot of double click and in majority on space bar regardless of the setting of the actuation point. Disabling rapid trigger or up the upstroke to 2.35mm reduce a little the problem.i need to rollback to 2.7.2 to stop this problem but i loose the benefit of the actuation point more accurate

[slow trail]

I have the same issue with spacebar double clicking.

[dim merlin]

works just fine for me

what i really wonder is, is there any room of space to further improve the tachyon mode or is it at its best right now? in terms of input delay

[exotic geyser]

yep i inform Simon of the problem but it's weekend we need wait monday i think.i post a long description here if you want add your problem to mine here that can accelerate the fix #1187862357720977530 message

[boreal elk]

fast and slow press nothing for me only time I had issue was when I slammed my space bar into the plate

then it doubled

yeah that I can replicate, I bottom out the space bar on the spacebar counter test and it doubles

using: https://skill-test.net/spacebar-counter I press my spacebar hard into the plate and then release and it triggers a double accuation

[boreal elk]

ok

should I leave the last bit about the double press or no @exotic geyser

[exotic geyser]

yes ofc man

[exotic geyser]

on this website when i press space bar with 2.7.2 firmware my key press is register only when i release the key(normal thing).when i do the same with 2.7.1 signal test build or 2.7.3 beta 0 or 2 sometimes the space bar key press register when i press the key (1 count) AND when i release the key(2count) it's the double click problem im speaking .so it's obvious something change with the rapid trigger system or become too sensitive with the last build .it's look like my upstroke rt is counted as downstroke rt so that make the double click https://skill-test.net/spacebar-counter

[warm cosmos]

@exotic geyser do you know if it is also the case for you like @boreal elk described? It would be very helpful to know if it is happening at the start of the press or at the end

and if how hard/fast you press the key changes it

[exotic geyser]

at the end of press and like i tell you in the message just before your it count 2 press .i press slow the key one input registred i hold the key and when i release a second input is registred.if i press hard like a slam the double click increase but that happen with slow press or normal press too

[exotic geyser]

if i press like literallly slam the key i can have triple click but it's not normal use

@warm cosmosdid you read all my messages about the problem?i do a lot of test and the upstroke rapid trigger is the problem if i up upstroke at 2.35 mm that reduce a little the number of double click .if i disable the rapid trigger that reduce a little more the problem and 2.7.2 build fix the problem

[warm cosmos]

Yeah I read all the details you gave. I think the best next step would be for me to get a little test thing running where we can easily see the history of the analog signal, so we can get a better understanding of what the underlaying analog signal is actually doing to cause this

[exotic geyser]

what i must do?

[warm cosmos]

Nothing right now, I'll follow-up with some instructions when I have some things together. I need to make something so we can get better insight into it

[exotic geyser]

ok i understand thanks.keep me informed when we can do that

[warm cosmos]

I have built up some tools to help me get insight, so if anyone else is having issues with key registration, please DM me so I can follow-up with you and investigate your issue

[vivid lintel]

@exotic geyser

[exotic geyser]

@vivid lintel yes what's happen?

[barren portal]

ur a a hero

[dim merlin]

if the developer could is it possible to improve the tachyon mode even further? or is it at it limit? by this i mean input latency etc

[warm cosmos]

There are still some small optimisations that can be made, but at this stage, it's already pretty good. With the 60HE for example, it's already scanning the keys at close to 2khz in tachyon mode and the polling rate is at 1khz

[vivid lintel]

How has the data collection been progressing, and have any patterns been noticed among the cases?

[warm cosmos]

I haven't been able to collect much data

So it would be very helpful if people are able to tell me that they are using the latest beta v2.7.3-beta.2 and if it is all working fine or if they are experiencing some issues

[lethal spruce]

I’ll try it later today

[lethal spruce]

Its working fine for me, did some testing on https://skill-test.net/spacebar-counter and I see no double inputs

[lethal spruce]

one more thing I noticed, especially when I am playing osu (on the 60HE), when holding a key longer then 2 secs it suddenly stops sending the input. idk why

[snow crown]

ln disaster

[lethal spruce]

well yes if I would mainly play mania

I will try different actuation points to see if that makes a difference