🎹│analog_midi_feedback

[vivid urchin]

Wooting 60he does not have analog support for onboard memory? I use a xim apex on Xbox and I was hoping this would give me@controller movement.. but I can’t seem to get it to work :/

[rough plinth]

you need to set your gamepad mode in the keyboard settings to 'Classic Controller' for the XIM Apex

slightly outdated guide: https://wooting.helpscoutdocs.com/article/72-guide-how-to-set-up-a-wooting-keyboard-for-the-xim-apex

[vivid urchin]

Doesn’t seem to work… my keyboard is not turning on it seems 😵‍💫

[vivid urchin]

Got it working thank you!!!

[brazen cedar]

Yes!!

Not sure what DAW you're using, but in Bitwig I just map pressure to CC. With the new CLAP standard Surge for example will even have per voice expression with the Wooting. Works great when the preset is set up properly.

[severe idol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAuKVsBuHEU

[upbeat verge]

I wonder what analog could be useful for... perhaps dynamics control?

[prisma raft]

yo ive got those same keycaps. glad to see they actually sell on aliexpress... i thought i might be the only one to buy them

[rough plinth]

awesome

[severe idol]

ah they're pretty nice my s/o bought them as a birthday gift!

[prisma raft]

ye i like em too

feel nice and visually pleasing

[severe idol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY7kqri6I1s

[rough plinth]

this is beautiful

keeps toggling the fps overlay lol

I believe you can disable your keyboard keys on your analog profile to avoid that

[severe idol]

it's actually because of the program in the top left, it uses alt + 1-9, and q-m to control the dynamics since Roblox doesn't accept midi

[severe idol]

thank you so much <3

[edgy anvil]

Btw, I released a bump update for the analog midi app, it's mainly project cleanup & dependency updates but should hopefully improve stability: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi/releases/tag/v0.2.2

[short pivot]

What is the advantage to having an analog keyboard as a MIDI? I am not a musician, so don't waste too much time on my question. But, a keyboard (the one with a piano layout, not for computers in this reference) isn't analog usually right?

[fossil oak]

They are, the harder you press a key, the louder it goes. And fancier ones also have aftertouch, whatever that is

[severe idol]

tbh its more about the speed on wooting than actual firmness though

[dark night]

[misty pendant]

It's the same with pianos (including any modern electric keyboard)—the faster you press down the key, the louder the noise. It's called "velocity sensitivity", as opposed to, eg, "displacement sensitivity".

theoretically with an analogue keyboard you could simulate either, but displacement sensitivity would probably be quite hard to control given the minimal amount of force required to press a key.

If you've ever played around with a regular piano/keyboard, you'll know that if you press a key slowly it will make no noise, even if you press really hard when it bottoms out.

because ultimately, the noise is created by a "hammer" that is basically thrown at the strings by the key. The key works like a see-saw to launch the hammer into the strings. If you don't press it fast enough, the hammer will not be launched from the key.

[brazen cedar]

Normal MIDI keyboards detect velocity, but few have polyphonic aftertouch. This means that few have analog pressure control for each key after the notes are played. The ones that do feel terrible at it so it's not easy to take advantage of. Think of it like this- after the note is played on a synth it can sustain indefinitely. If play a chord and hold it, then move the keys up and down without releasing them, on a standard device it makes no difference in the sound. But with polyphonic aftertouch or poly pressure control you can change the sound while it sustains, and each key controls the sound for its respective note instead of changing everything all at once. That's what the Wooting analog MIDI lets you control vs a standard MIDI keyboard.

[severe idol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqJE79Ehq0E

[celest needle]

Hello Wooting Midi community. I'm thinking of getting a Wooting 2 HE primarily as a MIDI instrument, as I'm only an occasional gamer. However, I have a macbook. Is the analog functionality significantly limited on OSX? I've been reading about how Analog input isn't genereally supported on OSX since Xinput is windows only. However, games supporting DirectInput can still provide Analog input... so, does that solve the compatibility issue? I'm having a hard time finding basic compatibility information on the website so thank you for your help!

In particular, I'm super excited about the Wooting because it can probably work like a small version of the Lumatone but at a fraction of the price.

[edgy anvil]

@celest needle I understand your confusion. We aim to have all our stuff work cross platform, I even mainly dev on a MacBook.
On MacOS you can use the keyboard in classic controller mode if you want to take advantage of gamepad bindings. That should work without issues on mac for games.
When it comes to MIDI you can use it fully, it just involves a bit of extra set-up but you should be able to use it with any Midi software you use on mac

[misty pendant]

Might also be worth clarifying that MIDI usage basically involves special handling of the Wooting device (ie, not going through gamepad emulation). Any "analog" support provided by macOS/Windows/Linux (eg, for gamepads) probably won't be relevant. The existing Wooting MIDI software reads the analogue state of all keys directly through a special USB endpoint provided by Wooting keyboards, rather than using the OS' interpretation of an input device.

(Wooting keyboards present multiple USB HID endpoints—at least one that looks like a normal computer keyboard, one that provides raw analogue values (used by wooting-analog-midi) and maybe some others for gamepad emulation and other things)

The different endpoints are basically just treated as separate devices by the OS, so it looks like you're plugging in multiple input devices at the same time.

[celest needle]

Thank you, @edgy anvil @misty pendant ! That’s very helpful. I now understand better what Wooting means that support depends on the game. Thanks!

[bronze cove]

On my Mac I'm getting MIDI device not found after going through all the steps, any suggestions?

Very excited to use analog keys for playing instruments in Ableton

[edgy anvil]

@bronze cove What model is your keyboard and which version of the Analog SDK did you install?

[shrewd hull]

@edgy anvil am I missing something or is this still impossible? https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi/issues/37

[edgy anvil]

Yeah, this hasn't been added

I haven't added any features since the initial thing I made as there hasn't been much of a push

[shrewd hull]

okay that's fine sorry

[edgy anvil]

No bother for asking 🙂, am curious to hear when people are interested in more features. The more interest the more likely I can allocate time to work on them 😁

[rose gull]

Is this not a prereq to some other features tho? Like bottom out for capitalization/enter

[old meadow]

I’m thinking about getting a Wooting for Virtual Piano, but I heard it’s mostly by how fast you play that changes volume, is there any setting to have it how hard you press a key (similar to how my digital piano works)

[prisma raft]

hard and fast is the same

a real piano or electric piano dont sense how hard you press it but the velocity of they key stroke

this doesnt mean how fast you spam press it but how fast it goes from not pressed to fully pressed

[odd jacinth]

#💬│general message

#knob_switch !!

[granite veldt]

how would i set this up to use with bandlab
probably am dumb and havent figured up how to set up everything properly

so far have the midi app set up but unable to use it as a midi input?

[edgy anvil]

You need to have a virtual midi device that the midi app can send data to, then whatever software that can read from MIDI should be able to just read from the virtual device

On Windows you normally have one there by default, on Mac you have to manually configure it (The project readme links to this guide: https://medium.com/@keybaudio/virtual-midi-devices-on-macos-a45cdbdffdaf)

[granite veldt]

thank you so much

i finally got things work now

[edgy anvil]

Great 😁

[desert flicker]

Hi, since i asked the support about mpe possibilities, and they send me here. Did you get anywhere with the keyboards and mpe support?

Would be interesting to hear some feedback in general, for using the keyboard as a controller/„keyboard“ for synthesizers etc.

@latent field

Ah wooting-analog-midi seems to be a thing

Does it use multiple channels? Else i dont see midi handling all this data, or putting it out.

[steel frigate]

I think there is a special type of midi software for mpe besides the standard midi stuff but that's all I remember off the top of my head. @desert flicker what synth programs do you use?

[desert flicker]

Mhh different ones, initially, i think i would test it with Vital, but then wanted to try it with the udo super 6

In Ableton Live

[desert flicker]

@steel frigate

[compact helm]

SUPER cool FEATURE oh capss is stuck

[short dune]

Anyone know if multiple Wootings can be connected to a computer at the same time with different midi channels? Was looking at the Lumatone instrument (v. cool) but it's the cost of 21 Wooting 60HEs, so would be super funny to just stick a bunch together and save some money

[flat sinew]

Hi, is there any plan to make it possible to bind multiple keys to one pitch with this? Would be nice to be able to make a layout for isomorphic keyboard layout for example.

[vast karma]

Well, in theory you can do it by remapping the physical keys to the same logical key at https://wootility.io/

[flat sinew]

I suppose you could, but then it wouldn't work as a regular keyboard at the same time

[vast karma]

I'm not sure what exactly you're looking to accomplish, but you could use a different profile and use one of the top-right keys for switching between the profiles.

[sterile wyvern]

Hey there, I setup the midi keyboard and it works great, but to use it effectively I wanted to ensure all keys have no other function so I created a special MIDI profile with the F13-F24 keys, which again works as expected, but there arent really any other keys that have no function that I can use to extend the keyboard beyond 12 keys. How did you all solve this? Thinking about using AHK to disable my numpad and use these keys instead, but that seems like a really bad hack

I sadly cant get the analog value of unbound keys via the sdk or add private HID codes using wootility, so for now I am stuck it seems

[vast karma]

From what I can tell, there are some unused key codes you can map onto your keyboard by talking to it directly, but the firmware will not report these at all. You might be better off trying to convince your OS that your keyboard is not actually a keyboard (because I assume that's your issue)? As for how I personally use wooting-analog-midi, I just focus that window so that my inputs are swallowed.

Or... you can just use "mod tap" on advanced keys, that will allow you to unmap the digital key while keeping the analog input.

[sterile wyvern]

I settled with the AutoHotKey solution, in case anyone else ever stumbles upon this: https://github.com/Paul1365972/wooting-analog-midi/blob/personal/disable_numpad.ahk

[clear vine]

very cool software paul

[rain thorn]

idk if this idea has been proposed before but a feature where you can import "sheet music"?
assuming there's a standarized set of keybinds for notes, using rgb you can "load up" songs to play based on the color that shows up
would be fun

[prisma raft]

not what this channel is for lol. its for an app to convert the analog keys into midi input for music creation tools

[rain thorn]

oh damn didnt know i was just scrolling and saw that some people were using it for piano keyboard programs

[prisma raft]

it doesnt do anything on its own really except output midi

[severe idol]

theres a standardized layout
https://vp-sheets.fly.dev/index

its just 1234567890qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm

[rain thorn]

oh

do numpad, arrow, f-keys, and navigation keys support midi output?

[prisma raft]

all keys are analog so a program can convert all of them into fully functional midi keys

[celest needle]

Has anyone tried mapping out something like the Lumatone? I don’t have a wooting keyboard, but if it worked for something like that I’d buy it in a heartbeat

How usable have you found it as a piano/synth keyboard

In particular, I’m interested in isomorphic layouts like Wicki-Hayden, and Harmonic Table for exploration. I’ve also found that the WH layout is extremely fun and easy to play chords on

They should be easier to set up—just a layout—than microtonal layouts, but if you’ve heard Sevish you know that microtonal interfaces can be super rewarding, too! (Traditional East, South-East, and South Asian too!)

[covert raptor]

Hello, everyone. I don't know anything about music at all, but recently wanted to learn piano. Regarding WOOTING TWO HE, I'm curious how much the sound made changes when pressing the keyboard at different speeds, or if it's possible to play light and heavy sounds easily?
If it can, and it works pretty well, does that mean it can replace an electric piano to some extent? 🧐
Can anyone answer that? plz~

[vast karma]

I think it's a bit heuristic, but mostly it works such that if you press slowly, it makes a rather silent sound, and if you press quickly, it makes a louder sound.

it's also pretty easy to learn to read this basic notation

just start at C4 (the one on the left in this graph), then you see the dot goes up like half a bar, that means you just play a semitone higher, aka the key to the right of it

then sometimes the dot has the # before that that means you play the black key but that's already beyond basic imo

[random tiger]

Can you please add support for ctrl notes??? for qwerty keyboards they only have the 61 key range, while full pianos have 88 keys, to circumvent this, you can press the keys 1-t while holding the ctrl key to play the lower notes, and the keys y-j to play the higher notes

[zealous crown]

i have a midi kb so i'd probably mainly use the analog functionality of this board to change automation on a track or bus while listening back to it, live

for swells, fades, modulated things, panning

i don't know how i'd go about doing that with an analog keyboard but that would be a killer feature IMO

[zealous crown]

it's called velocity

[vast karma]

idk, it just feels wrong, but I am far from an audio person, as my explanation of how to read sheet music may have given away

[zealous crown]

I’m just telling you that the thing you were describing is called “velocity” in midi data

[rain thorn]

hey im having some trouble setting this up on mac

says i need the dependencies like the analog sdk and ive installed it through brew but upon running the app it says it has issues initializing the sdk

is it a me issue (missing dependencies) or is the project not up to date ?

im on sonoma 14.2.1

[karmic topaz]

Are there solutions for making use of „wooting midi“ on mobile OSes?

[prisma raft]

brew install wootingkb/wooting/wooting-analog-sdk

idk how updated this is

id try the local method from our repo

[vast karma]

Well, I suppose you can probably plug your keyboard into a phone. Android is supposed to be a Linux, so you can probably use hidraw with the proper permissions to talk to the analogue channel.

[prisma raft]

iirc android blocks those kinds of communication

[vast karma]

I'd figure it's just the usual permission restrictions of hidraw?

So would either need root or have an exception in that one funny file

So, probably would need root either way

I suppose it could be a good project to try to get analogue input support into the Linux kernel with userspace APIs exposing that data. Just a tiny problem being that Linux doesn't have any input API at all.

Microsoft Windows® does have userspace input APIs, but I can't just PR the NT kernel to add support for analogue input, haha.

[rain thorn]

i apologize, didnt check the github thoroughly, seems like someone else also had this issue and solved it
https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi/issues/26

ive managed to get the app to open but its not recognizing my keyboard (two HE), any recommendations?

[vast karma]

Does it work when you run it as root?

[rain thorn]

im not sure how to do that

[vast karma]

sudo ...

[rain thorn]

ah

same issue, there are a few problems i think might be the culprit

• im using a usb hub for the keyboard connection, not sure if that messes with anything
• the sdk the midi app is using is 0.7.0, not sure if the latest version addresses this
  im gonna try swapping to the latest and see if that does anything

hmm i seemed to have messed up where the files are supposed to go

probably will give up running this on mac, i'll try this on windows again later

[vast karma]

actually it seems Mac doesn't have hidraw, so I have no idea how that works

[rain thorn]

interesting, i downloaded wootility so i should have the latest sdk, but it gave me the same error on windows

[rain thorn]

oh huh

it works all of a sudden now

omg this is so fun

[rain thorn]

can this be pinned; also really enjoyed your videos furnik, they are so cool to watch

[rain thorn]

how do you play something like [Wd] where theres an uppercase key

[mortal kestrel]

So how do I bind Analog movement in a game?

[zealous crown]

This is for analog midi

[balmy pier]

dont use mac

[vast karma]

[severe idol]

you just roll the note so play W then let go of shift and press d

[severe idol]

tysm :D <33

[fiery dove]

can you guys add the option to bind alt + key and ctrl + key?

[random tiger]

Yes please

[tepid lynx]

no compatible devices could be found?

[glass mica]

Is it possible to transpose the keys directly from the analog midi program? (Not talking about the shift key)
I've been searching for months but I still can't manage to find it
I'm asking this because I'm using another programs along with it for the sound quality etc but it doesnt have transposing options so I need to play everything at transposition 0 which sounds weird most of the times

[misty pendant]

@glass mica If you're using Linux and/or are able to hack some Rust code, you could try my alternative program that does transposition: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/c5d5133cab1ef3596ac589d2449b25ef

Never really got around to making that usable for other people, just made it a few years ago to the point where it works for me (using a B-griff layout).

[exotic rapids]

what is analog midi?

[misty pendant]

An application that generates MIDI output based on how fast you press down each key on a Wooting keyboard, similar to a piano.

MIDI is the standard protocol/transport for representing electronic instruments, where the instrument is potentially a separate device from the sound synthesizer.

[exotic rapids]

wow nice

[marble field]

Are there piano apps for midi?

[vast karma]

Are there text editing apps for USB?

[misty pendant]

Maybe a late response, but .. not entirely sure what the question is. Before I had a Wooting keyboard, I was using a program called "vmpk" (available for Linux/Windows/macOS) as a piano keyboard MIDI application.

If by "app" you meant a phone app, I made this: https://maxdamantus.gitlab.io/bayan/ which can be installed as a PWA and works with both touchscreens and keyboards and can generate MIDI (by changing from the "Oscillators" option), though it only supports the B-griff layout that I use, and it doesn't support velocity sensitivity as is possible with Wooting keyboards. I use that on Android in combination with the "FluidSynth MIDI" app from the Play Store for actual synthesis.

I've also made an Android app that is able to generate MIDI from Wooting keyboards (so I plug my keyboard directly into my phone), including velocity sensitivity, though I haven't published it anywhere, and the device detection is sometimes a bit finnicky.

[marble field]

This was the correct response “app as in application on windows” thanks!

[misty pendant]

Right, so in combination with the piano application, you'd also normally run some other application to synthesise the sound. On Linux that would usually be fluidsynth, or some wrapper around it. Not sure what's available for Windows. In theory you could also plug it into an external synthesiser using some sort of USB/MIDI adapter (sometimes external synthesisers would have USB built in).

[low wraith]

How can I output midi to something else? In my case, I want it to work with that virtual piano roblox game

[prisma raft]

midi is grabbed by whatever program takes it as an input

[low wraith]

it seems that game doesnt recognize it by itself and needs an external program

but when I try executing it:

i got it working

[stiff plinth]

Hi people! Happy to have my wooting arrived in the mail today. I see MIDI apps but I was wondering has anyone did a OSC bridge or transcriber for wooting? Cheers

[stiff plinth]

Any idea why analog midi can't see my two he? I'm on a mac and I think I installed the sdk (0.7.0) fine

[vast karma]

If Mac is anything like Linux, it's possibly a permission issue? Does it work as root?

[undone dawn]

I bought a Two HE to play around with MIDI. It arrived today. Plugged it into my Mac. The Wootility app works great. I installed the SDK and plugins. When I run the MIDI app, it loads the plugins. But it does not see the device. Screenshots below. Any thoughts on things to try?

[undone dawn]

Hi. Did you have any luck getting your Two HE recognized?

[vast karma]

Try running it as root?

Oh, wait, I see you sudod

Looks like there's some error with the HID enumeration, possibly because it did not guarantee to MacOS that it supports this "secure restorable state"

Unfortunately I have no clue about how you access HID devices on MacOS

[undone dawn]

Thank you. That’s a clue I can work with.

[frozen ingot]

I think it’s related to the startup security. There is a setting in startup options to “reduce security” policy. Then reinstall the program after.

[undone dawn]

Thx for the tip. I uninstalled, switched to reduced security, restarted, reinstalled but unfortunately I got the same result: no devices found. 🤔

[stiff plinth]

Cheers, thanks - unfortunately no luck on my side, I tried sudo, reduced security and root user but analog midi still can't find the device. Also gave the app any possible access via system settings

[undone dawn]

Thanks for sharing. Bummer tho.

[undone dawn]

So I picked up a Raspberry Pi. Followed the directions for building on Linux and the app is working. Now I’m going to try to have the Pi act as a MIDI controller that can be seen by macOS. The goal is to see if I can get the Wooting to send MIDI notes with velocity to GarageBand and Logic Pro.

[stiff plinth]

That sounds like a good solution I may try as well, cheers

[gray sky]

I am suddenly starting to experience extreme delay with this feature on roblox. I've tried everything, any suggestions?

[severe idol]

it works for me, what game and software are you using

[gray sky]

I fixed it lol. I think it was other software running in the background causing it to have a huge delay 🙃 But I use arijans midi to qwerty and loopMIDI

Also funny seeing u here😭

[severe idol]

ikr i didnt expect to see u lol

i also use arijans and loopbe so u should be all good

[gray sky]

Yea, it was def background software causing the delay

[severe idol]

bit mining in the background

[fathom pond]

kablam

[lavish oxide]

How do I get this to work on Roblox?

[vast karma]

umm, what?

[hasty rain]

how to get analog to work for rblx

[vast karma]

wrong channel for this, but typically you'd emulate gamepad buttons on your keyboard, e.g. WASD -> left stick

the wootility has options for this, check the analogue profiles

[hasty rain]

ok thanks

[vernal whale]

helppp

[celest needle]

Keep us updated, I’m hoping for the same thing! (Haven’t ordered an 80HE yet, though.) Currently, I’ve used Bome to have any qwerty keyboard output midi in any isomorphic hexagonal layout. However, of course I don’t have velocity, which is what I’m hoping a wooting will do

[celest needle]

The Japanese layout 80HE seems to have the most hexagonally arranged keys, so that’s what I was hoping to get. But I stopped myself from ordering when I saw this

[nova vapor]

Hi! Is Wooting MIDI dead?

[vast karma]

Depends on what you mean by "dead".

The app still works, but the dev doesn't really have the time to maintain it.

[minor verge]

I am keen to get going with this too. I've lent my wooting to some friends but will beg them to give it back soon! 🙂
It's not a bad poor-person's Lumatone though ...
🙂

The wootless version ...
https://youtu.be/2kxLhwZb7P8

[nova vapor]

Amazing!

[unborn ermine]

OH THATS BADASS HOLY

Do you plan on making a video on how to set it up?

[nova vapor]

Hey community! I'm a little confused about the status of analog midi. Are you personally actively using it? I'd love to purchase a Wooting 80he but it would be primarily for MIDI so I need to know how this project is going. I emailed Wooting for support but they just wrote back one line that Analog Midi a community project. Can someone let me know what the current status is? Does analog midi work on Windows? On MacOS? Are several people actively working on it or does the project feel abandoned? Does it require sophisticated programming or might a novice programmer such as myself be able to make headway with the help of Copilot? Thank you in advance!

[vast karma]

It's a project started by a Wooting dev (afaik), but he's mostly busy with writing firmware and Wootility stuff, so it's effectively abandoned. The codebase is pretty bad, so if you do want to dig into it, I suggest you use your own brain to do so. But as of right now, it works perfectly fine, at least on Windows.

Ah yeah, here's a funny thing that just came to mind, it's not gonna work out of the box with your 80HE unless someone updates a certain SDK.

(but I promise you should get a keyboard from this poor indie company, even tho it looks like they're self-sabotaging, they're still very good keyboards!)

[nova vapor]

hmm, interesting @vast karma. Thank you for the reply! So, if I understand, there's no good reason why it definitely won't work, so it's probably worth tinkering with. Maybe I'll jump the gun.

[vast karma]

I mean, I've seen like most of the issues with this, and probably already fixed them 6 months ago, it's just a matter of patching the shit on your end, so it should be fine. 🙂

[nova vapor]

And somebody's got to do it so it may as well be me 😛

nice, I appreciate the encouragement

[exotic rapids]

Woah that is sick

[celest needle]

Hey! Anybody taken a look a the keychron q1 he? It runs QMK, so, I think that would make coding it for analog MIDI easier. The keys look more stable, too

[vast karma]

Yes, I have: https://github.com/AnalogSense/universal-analog-plugin/

This is a plugin you can install for the analogue SDK so the keyboard is accepted/recognised

but mind that the Keychron stock firmware has a really bad interface for analogue input, so I advice you flash this firmware: https://analogsense.org/firmware/

I already PR'd this into their upstream firmware but nothing seems to be happening there

Let me know if you have any issues 😛

[celest needle]

K I bought it. Yay

[vast karma]

I don't really see why you'd intentionally buy an analogue keyboard from a company other than Wooting, but alright 😛

[celest needle]

I just don’t get the feeling that wooting is supporting analogue midi… they have bigger issues, like how many mm between the r-shift and arrow keys is aesthetically ideal lol. Just different priorities. I feel a lot more comfortable in a fully open source firmware environment, especially since my main purpose for the keyboard is music and exploring hexagonal isometric layouts

[vast karma]

I mean, Wooting is more than 1 person, but I do agree that they often don't focus on the right things. That being said tho, they are still working on improving the SDKs and stuff. Still, MIDI is probably not gonna be more than a toy project.

The open-source version of the Keychron firmware also doesn't seem to be a 1:1 match with what they actually ship, but it's close enough.

I'd just prefer if they shipped it with a better way to read analogue input so you don't have to flash custom firmware for it, lol.

[celest needle]

Do you have both?

[vast karma]

Both what?

[celest needle]

Keyboards

[vast karma]

I think Wooting has more than 1 keyboard 😄

but I do have a few analogue keyboards laying around here

[celest needle]

lol I see

[celest needle]

Also, I was reading your comments on the implications of Rust’s unstable ABI, and it seemed like alternatives probably wouldn’t be offered any time soon. ChatGPT is suggesting “atomic operations” and “specific compiler flags” to enforce strict ordering, so maybe it is doable? I really have no idea, though

[vast karma]

ChatGPT is really bad when it comes to Rust. The solutions are already given in my github issue on the topic.

[celest needle]

I don’t really understand this stuff, but I did see that the issue has been open for almost a year. That, plus homiemusic’s issues on MacOS, made me think fully open source might be a safer bet at least for the short term

[vast karma]

You really shouldn't be worried about Rust's ABI . This doesn't impact normal users at all. It's only worth noting for plugin developers, and they can simply use the C ABI, instead.

[stray tartan]

where did u get this keycaps ?

[hollow stone]

?? how do i get my hands on these

asap

[proper flicker]

yea this are cool

[minor verge]

Maybe I can make a few sets of keys. What would be an okay price for a set of around 46 keys (enough for the main letter and number keys to get a neat four rows of tiled hexagons)? Shipping from Oz should not be too bad as they would not weigh too much.

I have some ideas to make them channel the light through better by darkening the sides.

[knotty cape]

how do you use this on windows pc

[vast karma]

https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi?tab=readme-ov-file#getting-started

[knotty cape]

is there a way to get a preset virtual piano format?

instead of having to manually write it down

[dense verge]

Are there any videos on this, just want to see how it functions

[vast karma]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wooting+analog+midi

[severe idol]

@dense verge

[obtuse geode]

anyone gotten analog midi to work with FL studio

have it installed and the app detects key inputs as midi but having trouble getting it to receive midi in channel rack

is there supposed to be like a virtual device that shows up here

[winged yacht]

Try loopmidi

[humble hawk]

guys, what setting do yall use for virtual piano games?

like keyboard and programm settings

[vernal epoch]

Hey everyone, I made a web-based alternative implementation of analog-to-midi, which may be useful for some ppl here
First demo - https://mind-ext.github.io/AnalogueKeyboardMidi/

[vast karma]

Based

[tacit loom]

i need someone to explain me ho to enable the analog mode

why the game pad tester isn't working????

[tacit loom]

what's this?

[patent burrow]

This channel is for the analog MIDI project https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi, it's the wrong place to ask what you're asking

[tacit loom]

I saw analog and I asked for help

[exotic rapids]

Make sure to enable gamepad mode (xbox in your case), also I suggest using wootility web v5. Next time if you have these questions, please ask them in #💬│general as it's not related to analog midi!

[tacit loom]

Okey thx

[sturdy slate]

mhm... i think i have a problem, can someone help?

[vast karma]

Well, that seems like an issue with your keyboard and not just midi specifically

it might be useful to know that the keys in your Wooting keyboard are actually just magnets

so try not to have any magnets nearby, idk

[rare bolt]

add better macros, and and them to wootlity web no download software please

[vast karma]

yes, this is definitely the place for feedback/demands

we'll get right on it!

[mighty current]

How do I macros

[vast karma]

Also not the correct channel for that

[mighty current]

Where do I put it

[vast karma]

Probably #1019755933959733258

[gray sky]

I am very confused 😔

says i need the dependencies, but i thought the dependencies were auto installed with wootility

i got it to work 😅

just didnt have wootility open...

[fierce oracle]

Can i use any magnet switches and still have all the wooting features

[stray rose]

features arent tied to switches]

[old pine]

i have no idea if this is the right channel so im sorry if its not, i dont see a software support channel tho, is there a way to change the color of my caps lock? like the light it shows when its on

[vast karma]

Probably #1019755933959733258

but it's the little dot on the capslock key in wootility

[old pine]

ohhhhhhhhhh tysm

it was that lmao

tysm

[severe locust]

thank god we have people with programming experience, or we would never be able to solve these complex problems

[odd plover]

cheers, did anyone manage to get this running on Red Hat / Fedora?

[tall ledge]

there is a problem that occurs when you shift for a note
let's say you have [Teup]
since there is some sort of double key-press in order to prevent weird long key presses or some other bug, it registers the T key twice
one for unshifted - t (double press)
one as the shifted T you have to press in the chord of [Teup] (intended press)

[severe idol]

you have to setup a profile and bind 1-m to a controller input and disable keys with gamepad bindings

[severe idol]

78a5ca39fa5fa554ad05d83112ae2f89ab8e heres my profile

[tall ledge]

i use a non rooting keyboard lol

[severe idol]

o

[tall ledge]

wooting

i’ll figure something out

[severe idol]

yeah you want the sdk to see your kb presses but not type in game

[nova widget]

Does the sdk work with keyboards not from Wooting?

[vast karma]

The Analog SDK is modular in design, and there is already a plugin to expand the capabilities: https://github.com/AnalogSense/universal-analog-plugin

Although obviously third-party, i.e. the keyboard vendors didn't actually put effort into exposing analogue input so can be a subpar experience for sure

[nova widget]

Fantastic, thanks!

[nova widget]

So if I get a wooting keyboard, it will be easier to program support for analog keys?

[vast karma]

If you're just looking to integrate analogue input support to your apps, there is technicaly also the test plugin with a GUI to submit fake inputs

but I'd definitely recommend getting a Wooting keyboard. They're just good keyboards in general, and the analogue input support is unmatched (tho more for a lack of no one really caring, I guess). 😛

[half granite]

how does it compare to midi keyboards? have been wondering for a while but could never find a straight answer

[vast karma]

Well, they're different kinds of keyboards in terms of what keys and in what layout, but I don't think the data transmitted in regards to how you are interacting with the keys is much different

[half granite]

I see, how much does velocity differ? actually usable to play something?

[humble hawk]

anyone got profile for Virtual Pianos?

using this profile makes my fps drop

[amber bane]

I have to try the piano experiment out some time

[humble hawk]

is there any way to disable keys instead of doing gamepad method?

it makes my game lag

[winged carbon]

@severe idol is there a way to enable sustain for this?

it disables keys, but the gamepad also disabled any other setting other than 1-m, even if space is bound to RB

[severe idol]

don't bind spacebar or arrow keys to a controller bind and they should still work, there's an option to enable keyboard keys

[winged carbon]

this is how i have it currently

i tried with and without the spacebar enabled, still wont work either way

[winged carbon]

isee isee

[severe idol]

the secret sauce

[winged carbon]

i do have an issue with the uh

shift notes

[severe idol]

whats da issue

[winged carbon]

its not the uh usual qwerty shift map

[winged carbon]

im using this profile (the one you supplied

[severe idol]

you are the first to notice that

[winged carbon]

do you need to rebind things?

[severe idol]

i have no idea

[winged carbon]

hmm interesting

becuase notes like f and g play the same note

[severe idol]

yeah F is actually g

[winged carbon]

it just plays Cap G twice

[severe idol]

where on wooting its G

do you have a sheet where thats an issue?

[winged carbon]

here it should be going up a note

but rather its skipping one

causing a completely different key than intended

[severe idol]

yeah

[winged carbon]

it cant be fixed on VP, its basically replicated on normal key inputs

heres the shift map
{!@$$%^**(QQWETTYIIOPSSDGGHJLLZCCVBM}

it should be the entire qwerty system but not doubled

not sure if it can be rebound

to match qwerty VP standards

[severe idol]

i dont think theres a way in the software to

[winged carbon]

hmm

could there be a possible way to rebind them in Woomidi and turn off shift amt?

[severe idol]

rebind them in what way?

[winged carbon]

let me try and forge an example rq

[severe idol]

like a custom layout to match?

[winged carbon]

somewhat?

if you can think of it as that

becuase woomidi just creates a shift, not move it to a custom map

which in VP it is a custom map for shifting

you can see it here

that fixes the double notes

[severe idol]

uhh..

you can make shift amount 0

i dont really understand the layout

arent you missing the other notes now though?

[winged carbon]

nope, thats in the Shift form, so now it plays all notes instead of just trans+1

thats why there is lowercased and some uppercased

so instead of just setting the transpose up 1 (which it does rn, it instead just changes the keymap itself

it plays these

and then transposes it up as a shift input for every octave

its probably very confusing

[severe idol]

ya im a bit lost xd

[winged carbon]

thats fine, its just a unique algorithm its set up

[severe idol]

im still on whether or not the wierd note issue is fixable

thats the minor layout thing you sent a ss of

but i dont get how that changes to fix it

[winged carbon]

sorry wait im so dumb i was looking at the wrong map

here, THIS is the shifted map

[severe idol]

a h

[winged carbon]

so this only plays the black keys, nothing more

the notes that are in the grey play normal notes since itll just lead to the same note (such as f and g are the same note

[severe idol]

ohhh

[winged carbon]

maybe i can try to rebind it

lets see

[severe idol]

wait

just set the shift amount to 0

[winged carbon]

yeah

and just bind the shifted notes to the black keys, yeah thats what im trying to do

[severe idol]

nono

if you set the shift amount to 0

then shift in game

the game detects left shift being pressed

[winged carbon]

couldnt i just disable shift key as a gamepad input?

wouldnt that disable spacebar input though

[severe idol]

just make sure it doesnt have any gamepad stuff on it

it works just fine

i tested rn

[winged carbon]

hmm ill see what i can do

thisll take some time

my issue is that

(that says left shift)

whenever i go to bind the capital letters, it thinks im trying to bind shift

[severe idol]

you can do all white keys the normal layout

[winged carbon]

elaborate

[severe idol]

say you do shift +3, woot mid just plays 3 but roblox sees you pressing shift and the 3 from woot mid so it play the correct note

well rather the 3 from midi to qwerty

[winged carbon]

im lost

[severe idol]

xd

can you join me in game

[winged carbon]

sure

[eternal prism]

Does anybody have a flake for the midi software?

(nixos)

[smoky harness]

@vast karma do you know if he NuPhyX BH65 will work with the software ?

[vast karma]

It should with the appropriate plugin

[smoky harness]

What about the aula 68he hero ?

[vast karma]

Hmm, yet more Chinese clones of the 60HE. Probably won't work out-of-the-box, but I bet the protocol is very similar to the other Chinese knock-offs. Just buy a Wooting if you want proper analogue input.

[smoky harness]

im broke 💔

[vast karma]

Whatever money you save in the short-term is negated by the hardware breaking sooner, probably

[zinc crypt]

what app can you use the midi control on the wooting for?

[night viper]

anything that supports midi controllers?

[night viper]

idk what kind of midi controller it is exactly but I’m assuming it could be useful for DAWs

[prisma raft]

you prob need to make your own

the spacing of the locating pegs is quite consistent so measuring it and making a new component should be quick and easy

[tepid shell]

Cool Thanks!
I was thinking of designing a 3D printed spacer between the PCB. This gives some more room for the leds and hall sensors so I can actually max out the switches

idk if the pegs will reach the pcb, but I feel like I will need the holes for them regardless

just in case

[prisma raft]

you prob want to do what most companies do with HE boards which is mounting the sensor on the back

they should be able to get maxed out anyway

the worst thing would be you get the wrong sensors with a too low max flux value

[tepid shell]

Oh that's a very good recommendation! Any sensor you can recommend?
I also have leds in my design. Any tips for how to mount those?

[prisma raft]

leds is a bit more tricky. you can reverse mount them on the backside (we do this a lot) or just find super tiny ones for the front that fit under the switch

[fallow venture]

We have an (ancient) reference that might be useful to you, but note that this was written in 2021 so the products suggested may no longer be the best choices or even available at all

What particular advice to give is based on amount of switches/sensors in the project:

< 8: recommend I2C sensor

≥ 8: recommend analog sensor  

>16: recommend analog [multiplexer](https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/CD74HC4067SM96/390310) in combination with analog sensor

1. I2C sensor: https://www.allegromicro.com/en/products/sense/linear-and-angular-position/linear-position-sensor-ics/a1454
2. Sensor with analog output: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv5053.pdf

[tepid shell]

Great! My current design and firmware also used the 74hc4067. Works pretty well

What sensitivity would you recommend for the DRV5053?

[fallow venture]

That question is waaaay beyond my technical knowledge 😅

[tepid shell]

Haha, I'll manage. I'll look up the sensitivity of the ones I am currently using

https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/sensors/magnetic-field/oh49e-hall-effect-switch-ss49e-compatible
It's these ones, there really cheap

[tame totem]

Wooting 80HE v2 Aluminiumet ect = mon rêve

[vast karma]

Le rêve est réel

[charred elbow]

Hey so i'm on a mac and been trying to use the midi setup, I've seen at least two other people in the past have issue getting the keyboard being recognized by the midi software. Has anyone been able to get their keyboard to work as midi for logic pro here?

[finite fractal]

Maybe it's time for a revival 😈

[analog frigate]

I want to use a Wooting60he v2 to switch effects in AmpliTube 5. How can I do that?

[stray belfry]

funny thing you ask

you cant

[finite fractal]

Funny thing is, you can...

[steep copper]

You fork the original repo?

[sand elbow]

I am new

Hi

Can someone give me overview what’s the current best method to use wooting as a midi and how useful are the results

Can it actually replace an actual midi keyboard or is that a bit of a stretch. Thanks

[sand elbow]

Anybody home?

[west raven]

the usefulness of the analog api really depends on your use case and if you’re willing to write your own software to create what you need

i think it’s cool as a gimmick but won’t really replace an actual midi controller

[sand elbow]

I can’t write my own software so I guess I should not look at this as alternative to midi controller

[flint saffron]

<@&1098943457654997093> missed spam.

[finite fractal]

Oh trust me you can

[grim pawn]

if speed is important then such a multiplexer isn't that good compared to a tmux1208, with ohm rating of 5 ohms and 5 picofarad capacitances if im not wrong, also if possible use the ti drv5055a series, they have automatic temperature compensation and have far better bandwidth and stability for a few cents more, also use lcsc with jlcpcb because from what ive seen it is far far cheaper there, might differ for you though if you are not close to china

[grim pawn]

one more thing DO NOT USE I2C for it is quite slow unless you're using it in precision electronics, cheaper analog sensors will outperform it in most scenarios

[tepid shell]

Great! What kind of sensitivity would you recommend for hall keyboards?

[grim pawn]

I don't know I don't own a he keyboard 😭

I only know how they work

[quiet wraith]

I think it's personal preference since we all use different different settings

[grim pawn]

some might like high some might like low

its up to you

tbh

[sand elbow]

?

[hazy verge]

Z

[glossy cedar]

<@&1098943457654997093> some missed money

[gritty fulcrum]

weird

[glossy cedar]

Yea, no one wanted the money

[gritty fulcrum]

well it showed he was already banned about 10 mins ago by shafie

yet message was still lingering

[glossy cedar]

Weird things happen I guess

[gritty fulcrum]

Discord tings

[low dawn]

Anyone successfully get Analog SDK running on Mac?

[fallow venture]

You don't need it unless you're developing games/tools

[low dawn]

https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi says I need Analog SDK running under the hood. And when I try to open the wooting-analog-midi app, I get bonked saying I need the SDK.

[fallow venture]

For that you do, yea
@deft garnet can you assist this individual with this?

[deft garnet]

wootility has some issues installing the software at the moment

so instead you can download this directly from github
https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-sdk

[low dawn]

I downloaded and extracted wooting-analog-sdk-v0.9.1-x86_64-apple-darwin.tar.gz to my desktop.
In terminal, I then created the /usr/local/lib directory and copied libwooting_analog_sdk.dylib there.
I then created the /usr/local/share directory and copied plugin.h there.

I downloaded and installed wooting-analog-midi to my applications, but when I run it, I get and error:
Error Occured
Wooting Analog SDK Failed to initialize.
Please make sure you have all the dependencies installed correctly including the Analog SDK!

Am I still missing a file or path that's needed? Happy to contribute to updating these directions or providing a follow-along for others if I get this figured out.

[deft garnet]

(software wise i have some limits on this subject)
@steel cargo
any chance you may be able to assit on mac / analog sdk

[steel cargo]

I am quite busy at the moment but I'll try to give this a look.

[edgy anvil]

Calling all Music people. We've just launched the MVP of our experimental virtual MIDI device for our keyboards. You check it out here (https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi) and let us know what you think here!

[fossil oak]

Ah nice, guess I can stop thinking about my never-gonna-be-finished Wootidi project then

[half wraith]

This is relevant to my interests.

[tacit delta]

Awesome! 🙂 I am looking forward to the journey with everyone!

[broken bramble]

I'm interested in trying this. I have yet to use MIDI input, but it'd be fun to try. Is it possible to configure what keys go to what notes or have what function?

[soft solar]

I'm interested in trying this. I have yet to use MIDI input, but it'd be fun to try. Is it possible to configure what keys go to what notes or have what function?
@broken bramble Yeah in the analog midi app you can bind keys to certain notes. You'll see a piano display which you can just click and bind

Let us know once you tried it

[broken bramble]

Trying it out now, feels like the velocity sensing is a bit off, but then again, that could just be me (trying to play piano with a keyboard is harder than it looks, and it doesn't help that I'm pretty rusty at actually playing piano). Also, binding wasn't the easiest as (1) the black keys were slightly offset and (2) after clicking a key, it would immediately stop showing the remap button as if it got its input. Both of these considered, clicking on a black key would often result in it mapping a white key. If you want a screen capture demonstrating this, I can try to provide one.

Regarding (1), it looks (mostly) fine when the window is maximized, but in its default state things look a little weird. I'm still playing around with it to see what's up

[broken bramble]

Also, the GitHub page states that the Shift key shifts octave, but trying it out, it seems to only transpose the notes up one semitone and not a whole octave (12 semitones)

[edgy anvil]

Trying it out now, feels like the velocity sensing is a bit off, but then again, that could just be me (trying to play piano with a keyboard is harder than it looks, and it doesn't help that I'm pretty rusty at actually playing piano). Also, binding wasn't the easiest as (1) the black keys were slightly offset and (2) after clicking a key, it would immediately stop showing the remap button as if it got its input. Both of these considered, clicking on a black key would often result in it mapping a white key. If you want a screen capture demonstrating this, I can try to provide one.
@broken bramble Hmmm, interesting, we would like to revamp the binding UI and iron out some of those oddities. As I'm sure you can tell, the UI is pretty barebones at the moment as we wanna see where things should end up before spending a ton of time polishing the current design

Also, the GitHub page states that the Shift key shifts octave, but trying it out, it seems to only transpose the notes up one semitone and not a whole octave (12 semitones)
@broken bramble Ah yes, that's a slight inconsistency, at one point in time it was shifting a full 12 semitones. What behaviour would you like to see for that? I was thinking of setting up that to be configurable for the amount it shifts and the keybinding for what actually shifts the semitones

[plucky flume]

Hi guys ! Just looking for more infos about the Wooting MIDI ! So does it exist any video or demo of this in action ?

Or is it in a too early state ?

[broken bramble]

As I'm sure you can tell, the UI is pretty barebones at the moment as we wanna see where things should end up before spending a ton of time polishing the current design
This is understandable. Figure out what you want to do with the software before investing a lot of time into something that probably won't make the cut in the release version.
What behaviour would you like to see for that? [referring to key shift]
I think it would be good to have the option to set keys that, when pressed once, transpose all the notes played. It's hard to put into words, so I'll use an example from another PC piano program I use called Freepiano. In Freepiano, you can bind keys to shift complete octaves (+/- 12 semitones), and once pressed, it keeps the octave transposition (within that session; it resets automatically after exiting) so you don't have to hold it down. I'd like to see that kind of functionality, but on top of that, also allow binding keys that transpose the notes by just a semitone (+/- 1). If you want to take it a step further, allow binding a key that resets transposition to ±0 so the user doesn't have to do that manually.

Hi guys ! Just looking for more infos about the Wooting MIDI ! So does it exist any video or demo of this in action ?
I think it is a bit early for that; it's still in version 0.1 and it seems like it was just introduced not even a week ago, but perhaps sometime soon there will be. I'm currently playing with it myself to get to know it

[plucky flume]

I think it is a bit early for that; it's still in version 0.1 and it seems like it was just introduced not even a week ago, but perhaps sometime soon there will be. I'm currently playing with it myself to get to know it
@broken bramble Owkay ! So right timing for me ^^

What behaviour would you like to see for that? [referring to key shift]
@broken bramble Do you know Ableton ? Or GarageBand ? I really like the layout of the keyboard they are proposing: only one octave avaliable but more control over the octave shifting !!

[broken bramble]

Do you know Ableton ? Or GarageBand ? I really like the layout of the keyboard they are proposing: only one octave avaliable but more control over the octave shifting !!
I have heard of them, but I have yet to use either. More than one octave at a time would be nice (the layout I have set forth for both Wooting MIDI and Freepiano cover three) but I'm interested in knowing how they'll treat octave shift.

[plucky flume]

With W and X you can go up or down one octave

(on an AZERTY keyboard sorry ^^')

So it's Z or X in qwerty ^^

[broken bramble]

I see. I was going to ask how then the actual keys themselves would work, but I can see how if it's ZX/WX (I assume it's where the "white keys" are A-K (QWE) and "black keys" are W-U (QWE)?)
Also, I don't know AZERTY all that well, is it only Q-A and W-Z that are swapped?

[plucky flume]

Yes that's it

[broken bramble]

So for you it'd be Q-K and Z-U for white and black keys?

[plucky flume]

Exactly and the M is not at the same place niether

[broken bramble]

Where's that?

[plucky flume]

after the L

And even if it's one octave, the fact that it could be possible to map any other key to different parameters in the software (cutoff filter frequency or anything else :p)

[broken bramble]

I see

Freepiano comes with some extra functions that can be mapped to other keys too, but I use most of the main alphanumeric cluster for piano input keys, so that's what I did with Wooting MIDI too

just to get the convo back on topic, this is what my configuration looks like

And here's ultimately the same notes but shown on the keyboard. Yes, this is Freepiano, and the notes themselves are where the numbers are (1 being C and 7 being B/H). I think the dotless ones are octave 4, so 1 is Middle C / C4)

[plucky flume]

Owkay I get it !

But, in my opinion splitting octaves seems kind of disturbing for me ^^

But is it gonna be hard coded or will it be possible to re map the "whites" and "black" key as we want ?

[broken bramble]

You can freely remap keys to notes, but only one key per note that I know of (but you can have multiple notes per key)

[plucky flume]

we are still talking about WootingMIDI ?

Interesting to be able to map multiple notes to one key (accordion layout incoming ! )

[broken bramble]

So, for example, if you wanted to map F#3 and C#4 to A, you could, but you can't map F#3 to both A and I

we are still talking about WootingMIDI ?
Yes, we are

[plucky flume]

I just understood that you took FreePiano and modify it !

Ok.

[broken bramble]

My bad for not making it clearer, but yes, you can modify your key bindings for Wooting MIDI as you can with Freepiano (but it's a bit easier with WM than FP as with WM it's as easy as a click and a press whereas with FreePiano you have to modify a text document)

[plucky flume]

just to get the convo back on topic, this is what my configuration looks like
@broken bramble So just to be sure, this is the first picture is Wooting MIDI and the other picture is FreePiano

[broken bramble]

Yes

[plucky flume]

Owkay ! And you are the main developer of the project ?

[broken bramble]

No, I'm just a user trying it out

[plucky flume]

owkay great 🙂

thanks for the answers I am more and more interested in this keyboard ^^

[broken bramble]

It's definitely worth checking out, especially if you play video games that could benefit from analog input

[edgy anvil]

I think it would be good to have the option to set keys that, when pressed once, transpose all the notes played. It's hard to put into words, so I'll use an example from another PC piano program I use called Freepiano. In Freepiano, you can bind keys to shift complete octaves (+/- 12 semitones), and once pressed, it keeps the octave transposition (within that session; it resets automatically after exiting) so you don't have to hold it down. I'd like to see that kind of functionality, but on top of that, also allow binding keys that transpose the notes by just a semitone (+/- 1). If you want to take it a step further, allow binding a key that resets transposition to ±0 so the user doesn't have to do that manually.
@broken bramble
Hmmm, interesting. I think it could be worthwhile to have the option for the shift to be a 'toggle' or not? So then you could choose between the behaviour of shifting while pressed or a press toggles between the states of it being shifted or not.
The possibility that I am a bit stuck on in relation to this is the behaviour of multiple shift keys. So let's say you have an Octave shift and a Semitone shift key both set to toggle. Do they behave independent of eachother? So if you toggle Octave shift on you have +12, then you toggle Semitone shift on and have a total of +13? Or should only one be active at a time, so if you do an Octave shift and then a Semitone shift, the Octave shift is disabled and you only have +1? And if they behave independently then the behavour of the "±0"/reset key is tricky. I'm guessing based on your description that FreePiano follows the approach where only one is active? So the current transposition is whatever the value is of the last transposition key you pressed?

You can freely remap keys to notes, but only one key per note that I know of (but you can have multiple notes per key)
@broken bramble
That is the current behaviour, but it doesn't have to be like that. I could change it pretty easily to allow for multiple keys per note, we removed that behaviour as in the current basic UI it isn't very clear when you have multiple keys bound to a note. But if that is behaviour that is of interest I'm sure we can figure out how to make it at least somewhat intuitive

Owkay ! And you are the main developer of the project ?
@plucky flume btw I'm the main developer, if you have any more questions let me know!

[broken bramble]

I think it could be worthwhile to have the option for the shift to be a 'toggle' or not?
If this means what I think it means, it could be good to allow the user to select whether the transposition applies only while pressing the key or have it stay transposed after releasing the transposition key. The one I've had in mind is the latter, where even after releasing the transposition key, the transposition stays there.
Do [octave shift and semitone shift] behave independent of each other?
What I was thinking is that they'd stack. So if I press the +12 then +1 keys, they'd add up to +13. After that, I can press another key to reset the transposition back to ±0.
I'm guessing based on your description that FreePiano follows the approach where only one is active?
I must have been unclear, then; the transposition in FreePiano stacks, so pressing +12 then +1 adds up to a +13 transposition instead of replacing +12 with +1.

I could change it pretty easily to allow for multiple keys per note
This would be interesting to see, so you can freely map multiple keys to a single note and multiple notes to a single key. I can understand if it wasn't intuitive enough, though; perhaps there is a way to make it work, but I'd have to think on it awhile.

[edgy anvil]

@broken bramble Sounds good, I've created an issue on the repo here (https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi/issues/4) for tracking/discussion around this particular feature. So if you've got any more ideas on this you can throw them in there. I've also created one for the binding of multiple keys to a note (https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi/issues/5)

[broken bramble]

Great, thanks. I'll check them out soon.

[fierce star]

Anyone made a song yet?

[half wraith]

This fucking window is simply the worst.

[edgy anvil]

wth, that's really weird, the analog sdk installer is fully self contained and doesn't have any network dependencies, windows pls

[prisma raft]

i dont remember the installer having that red symbol in the top

[vocal lake]

hmm

[cinder ridge]

That is why i like terminal, much less wacky ui and for me ending in pressing every button

[broken bramble]

It didn't look like that for me as far as I could recall. I was on Windows 10

[charred sphinx]

Log file?

Did you actually install or change the feature states afterwards from the Windows control panel?

[half wraith]

Pretty sure I didn't.

Also, no log file, that'd've been too easy.

[fierce bloom]

Ok so I have an idea of something I'd like to see: Wooting lekker switches + per key rgb + planck layout COMBINED WITH theoryboard style midi input (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/irijule/theoryboard-thy333-music-theory-made-easy)

you'd probably need the lekker switches so you could play the notes very softly

it would be probably the most effective planck style keyboard ever built as well because you could have different key layers based on depth

you'd technically need 2x planck keyboards to get the full theoryboard layout but I think theres a way to simplify it onto one half

[tepid shell]

FreePiano is a opensource software that can let you play music with your computer keyboard.FreePiano | Advanced virtual MIDI

Website: http://freepiano.tiwb.com/en/
Free Piano - Browse Files at SourceForge.net https://sourceforge.net/projects/freepiano/
Search · freepiano · GitHub https://github.com/search?q=freepiano

Features of FreePiano:
Fixed a bug on input channel select setting.
Completely free, you do not need to purchase to use all the features.
Using VSTi, you don’t need to install a virtual MIDI device.
Support a variety of audio output, including DirectSound, WASAPI and ASIO.
You can define any key on the keyboard and display functions.
Multi sets of keyboard layout can be switched anytime during play.
Export your song to mp4 directly.

2015-05-09 Freepiano 2.2.2
MID file can be opened directly in freepiano.
Fix a bug that output type did not save correctly on 64bit version.
Fix a crash bug when using some VST plugins when exit.

2014-03-14 Freepiano 2.2.1
Show detailed error when failed to load VST plugin.
Adds a null audio output.
Displays note first in muti-bind commands.
Fixed a bug in LYT key map.
Fixed a bug that sequence label did not saved in fpm file.
Adds lots of demo songs.

2014-03-06 Freepiano 2.2
New ‘Sequence’ command.
Support both sharp and flat modifier on notes.
Export ‘mid’ file is now supported.
New ‘SendKey’ command, smuliates key press to another program.
Adds a preset to control windows default photo viewer pages.
New ‘Menu’ command, activates main menu on keyboard.
New ‘Release’ value change modifier, restores to current value before any key is released.
Adds a preset to simulate sustain pedal.
New ‘ChannelVolume’ and ‘ChannelPan’ command.
‘Pitch’ command now takes a ‘Smooth’ value modifier.
New ‘Loop’ option on playback setting.
New ‘Fullscreen when maximized’ option on GUI setting.
Can reset to default layout in other key signatures (No transpose).
Random velocity option is now saved.
Displays subfolders in keymap menu.

[civic pond]

I got news of the new Wooting releasing, congratulations! I am designing a MIDI device using Arduino and would like to see about building a prototype with analog switches to get velocity-based response. I was wondering if individual switches would be available and if a connection with an analog port would be possible without the keyboards standard PCB/controller.

[tepid shell]

A suggestion: The default audio source (Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth) has a lot of latency when I played music quickly. Can the user change the audio source by himself?There are a lot of excellent vsti audio sources (Addictive keys, Mad piano, Hypersonic2, pianoteq 6 stages, TheGrand2, TruePianos, Plucked String, Addictive Drums 2), if we can load the vsti sources of sound,That will be very great!😃

[edgy anvil]

I got news of the new Wooting releasing, congratulations! I am designing a MIDI device using Arduino and would like to see about building a prototype with analog switches to get velocity-based response. I was wondering if individual switches would be available and if a connection with an analog port would be possible without the keyboards standard PCB/controller.
@soft solar

A suggestion: The default audio source (Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth) has a lot of latency when I played music quickly. Can the user change the audio source by himself?There are a lot of excellent vsti audio sources (Addictive keys, Mad piano, Hypersonic2, pianoteq 6 stages, TheGrand2, TruePianos, Plucked String, Addictive Drums 2), if we can load the vsti sources of sound,That will be very great!😃
@tepid shell There is an option in the UI for "Output Port" which can be changed to whatever virtual port you want. A recommendation for Windows users from WootingPiano(https://github.com/microdee/WootingPiano) is to use loopMidi(https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html) instead of "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" as it performs a lot better

[tepid shell]

@edgy anvil thanks a lot . I setuped the loopmidi,restart the wooting analog midi ,and selected loopmidi port but no sound? what should i do next ? 😂

[edgy anvil]

You need to use a DAW or any application that accepts a MIDI input. This page has a nice overview of the setup: https://bvavra.github.io/MIDI_Accordion/midi-playback/ under the "Virtual MIDI Controller/Playback Software" section. I tried out the "Virtual MIDI Piano Keyboard" application it mentioned (https://vmpk.sourceforge.io/) and that appears to work quite well with loopMidi and gives you nice customisation.

[edgy anvil]

Hmmm, looks like vmpk is no longer packaging fluidsynth so the setup is a bit awkward. If you're using the new Chromium based Edge or Google Chrome you should be able to use https://virtualpiano.eu/ with loopMidi for playback. That's what I mainly use for testing on Linux

But really, anything that accepts MIDI input should work, that's our main goal with Wooting Analog MIDI, to make the keyboard into a MIDI device that can nicely integrate into existing music workflows

[severe idol]

So i'm a qwerty player and play piano with a normal keyboard and the idea of getting a wooting keyboard to have velocity control instead of just on or off is the main reason i have even been interested in wooting keyboards so this is like a dream come true. As for notes and what not there is actually already a standard for keyboard piano and tons of sheet music to go along with it using those notes. If you go to a website like virtualpiano.net is a good example but my favorite website would be pianorhythm.me as it has midi support and support for qwerty players. Having the ability to show dynamics like a normal piano but with qwerty keyboard is amazing <3 As an example for notes i do have a trello page which a lot of other people who play qwerty piano use as their main source of sheet music: https://trello.com/b/ZLpezOwO/furniks-piano

[tepid shell]

Everyone Piano - Forever Free Piano Software, Download Numerous Music Scores, Stave and Numbered Musical Notation, and EOP File. https://www.everyonepiano.com/

[severe idol]

four rows
1-0
q-p
a-l
z-m
from row 1-0 to row q-p
octaves are one down 2 left
same for q-p to a-l
a-l to z-m
octaves are one down 1 left

from a qwerty piano discord ^

[tepid shell]

🙂

[severe idol]

o thats wierd ive never seen that layout before

[tepid shell]

This layout makes full use of the keyboard and USES normal notation and staff, making it very easy to use.

[severe idol]

hows the sheet music look for that

[tepid shell]

hows the sheet music look for that
@severe idol just visit https://www.everyonepiano.com and https://www.everyonepiano.cn/ and https://jp.everyonepiano.com/

Lots of music sheets over there

[severe idol]

ya really wierd lol

[severe idol]

i wonder if something like freepiano is possible so you can setup your own custom layout that way it works with multiple types of keyboard piano music sheets

[broken bramble]

Yes

This is what mine looks like

[dark night]

Hi... i want to use the velocity information for a different project. I tried the analog read c# example but it is way to slow. how do i get that velocity information that is udsed for MIDI velocity control?

[fossil oak]

Luckily it's open source so you can see what it does.. hint: last time I checked it simply polls every 10ms

[dark night]

Looks like it reads every 10mS, but if i record all readings when typing in normal text on the keyboard, i most often get the first analog value at 1, to get analog values below 1 i need to type quite slowly on the keyboard. Reading the buffer faster than 10mS i just get repeats of the same analog value. This is not fast enough for my application.... Is it possible to calculate the velocity in the keyboard processor itself, so that it can determine that velocity much faster? i need readings in the order below 1 mS. Any suggestions on how to read velocity of fast keypresses ??

Anyway....observing the speed of the lightbar in the "touch" preset in wootillity, the velocity is being read much more accurately and faster. this is what i try to obtain for my application.....

[edgy anvil]

@dark night The raw analog data that you can get through the Analog SDK is sent from the keyboard every tick, at the same rate that regular keyboard input is sent and RGB effects are processed. Make sure to disable any RGB effects on your keyboard and you can also enable Tachyon mode, this should give you much faster scanning & input rate and as such should be able to get new analog values at a higher frequency

[dark night]

...set Tachyon mode, and i am now reading the driver with max speed. Its a lot faster, but still on the slow side for my application. Basically.....if you considder someone typing away normal tekst on the kaybord, i still get half of the readings showing fully depressed, unable to determine the speed.

I am considdering opening the keyboard, and read directely from the optical sensor, just to see if my application will fly.

Are there any optins that you can share some information about the hardware architecture inside the keyboard? I expect that some tailored formware can give me the readings i am after.

@edgy anvil The initial target is to device a setup that will recognise indivdual users based on their typing behaviour....sort of a signature, that you cannot tamper with 😉

[edgy anvil]

@dark night Sounds like a very interesting project! What rate are you getting new data at currently? If you're getting close to the 1KHz of the polling speed then I'm not sure how much progress can be made assuming you were wanting to still do stuff over USB

There's a lot of finicky details to the hardware architecture that are hard to get right, so without lots of embedded development experience I imagine you'd struggle to get something working well from scratch before pulling your hair out from the frustration of it all. On the other note, I don't think I can share with you much of the current firmware source, given that it's closed source. @soft solar thoughts?

[soft solar]

Readings below 1 ms will be hard to do even with the right firmware. How did you get to this number? From what I've heard from researcher a keypress on average takes 30-50 ms. Did you verify the C# application delay? I'm not sure what the number is with that now

[dark night]

Some testing.... inside the keyboard each individual key is measured every 8,4 mS and in Tachyon mode, every 2,48 mS. (every tenth scan takes a little longer for some reason, and makes it a little unreliable....) I did some measuring directely on one of the keys (had to disconect the multiplexers and IR led supply etc. to get a pure analog reading on the oscilloscope), and for my application the keypress variations are within 1 to 10 mS. (difference between fast press, and farly slow press. (this is the downward key travel time... disregarding the duration of keydown!) So for my application the keyboard is just not fast enough. Unlesss: the firmware is adopted to read even faster. A suggestion would be super fast scanning, and the stop the scanning at first key pressed, calculate the down travel, and then continue normal scanning. But i guess this is a far call for me...

This is actually the only way to get a usefull MIDI experience as well.....

[dark night]

Another thougt.... on a MIDI keyboard with weighted keys, pressing a key actually causes a weight to accellerated. The velocity is then an expression of the force acting on the key.... this is quite different from just compressing a spring, here the force is always the same, and it is simply not possible to press the key with varying force, because the force of the spring is always the same. One can only vary the speed that the key is presse, and it makes it a bit tricky to measure how "hard" the key is actually pressed.

Complicated physics 😉

[bitter rampart]

priority rescanning for active sensors is quite common - use fast/inaccurate all over scans if nothing is pressed (no sense waiting for an adc to stabilize anyway) - then once something starts to show activity, reserve a precentage of the scantime for a specific key

then keep scanning "near" keys in some prio matrix to find out of secondary presses are happening

for pianokeyboards this is extra easy because human hands are only so big, and next keys are usually within some probability map of an octave

also -> due to human hearing -> once you have more than 1 key pressed and you need to split priority on highspeed sampling many sensors, you can actually afford to lose -some- detail again because with so many different notes going on the ear will not really be able to hear the difference in scanning speed

@soft solar for percussive actions, most people start to feel latency over 4 to 5msec - but take in to account that you need to add this to the total audio system latency -> 1msec reserved from keyboard -> cpu only leaves you about 3msec of latency in your audiodriver which is asking a lot from your operating system on heavy loads

ears are annoyingly detailed compared to eyes

for phasing/repeated rhythms ears are MUCH more sensitive than 4msec even

but that is not always so relevant for human input

although some drummers manage to hit a single drum twice within that span to create odd effects

[soft solar]

Right, very interesting. We're working now on some better scanning methods, which we can also apply to the flaretech keyboards. We should have a consistent <1ms experience, without these "random" pauses in between. I wonder if that in itself will be fast enough, otherwise some extra speed output could be nice to have

Because it sounds like even with the fastest scanning possible, if you include the whole USB + OS chain just calculating the speed from the raw values you get will never be fast enough for a great experience

Thinking how we can output a raw analog speed representation.

[cedar coral]

The random pause, for me it also input s as if I'm reducing presure

[soft solar]

What do you mean?

[cedar coral]

if i do the mode

if i use tuch

*If i use the tutch rgb effect for example

im pushing down on my key going down slowly at a constant pressure

it lights up

f1

then f2

then f3

upto 6

for my h

it goes to 7

unlights 7

then unlights 6

then continues normaly

every switch does it at a differnt place

[fierce star]

@drifting pagoda

[severe idol]

does the midi application have support for capital letters and symbols? so s and S would able to be bound to different keys on the piano along with 1 and !

although jank heres an example

[edgy anvil]

There's no way to bind different notes to the normal and capitalisation of a characters as the note gets bound to the particular key. Although, if you're thinking of using it with like holding shift, then that allows you to shift the notes you're playing by an arbitrary amount (I can't remember what the current downloadable build has, but it may be just at a fixed octave shift, but there's a newer dev version which defo has full customizability for that)

[severe idol]

Yeah holding shift just shifts everything by a semitone technically so as long as when you let go it returns back to the normal then that should work too

also heres an example of the playing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7_uPLLEpQ

[fiery bridge]

can you lube these switches without losing the analog movement im a semi pro fortnite player and trying to get the best quality and feel out of my board. i have o rings on them now but id like to see how amazing these would fee lubed

[severe idol]

the wooting 1 and 2 can be lubed but you have to be careful. wooting lekker and he can be lubed no problem and i think come lubed from factory

[rough plinth]

flaretech wooting keyboards can be lubed if you're being cautious where and how much you apply
but I'd recommend getting the HE (lekker switches) once available if you want the highest tier of analog control

[vast bear]

@fiery bridge @rough plinth you can safely lube these from the outside without endangering the internal prism.

See #archived_keebs_talk

[quick summit]

That is a very interesting idea. Renoise has used the computer keyboard as a velocity-less midi keyboard for years and never implemented anything like using the shift as a modifier for your notes. That's a really good idea.

I'm not sure if I would want different notes, or if I would prefer it to be an octaver, so that I could have say 5 full octaves rather than the usual 2.5

If you treated the two (left and right) shifts differently, you could even get a full 7.5 octaves out, I would think, maybe more

It could be super duper interesting to have each shift act differently, like say the left shift makes the note flat and the right shift goes sharp. Then you could naturally play a C note by hitting right-shift+"B" or play an E note by hitting left-shift+"F". Of course, left-shift+"E" would play an E flat or a D sharp (same note)

Maybe control would be the octaver? I would still like to have all my sharps and flats available without having to hit shift, but having the shift be a full semitone shift in the direction of the handedness of the key would be really cool.

[severe idol]

yeah the most common standard for virtual piano is having the shift key move a semitone and then ive seen ctrl as a modifier to allow for 88 key input

but the ctrl thing isnt really common or standardized

[quick summit]

I mean, I invented the ctrl key thing as I was typing... kind of pulled it out of my ass, but thinking of it...hrm. yeah, in renoise you can jump to an octave with ctrl+1,2,3.. and can move the octave up and down with ctrl+[ & ctrl+]. That's a pretty intuitive way of navigating octaves it seems.

You're right though about [ctrl], because in Ableton to go up and down octaves it's z and x rather than ctrl modifiers. I don't think shift does anything in ableton, but velocity can be affected with c and v, which is only kinda awk.

I haven't seen any layouts that require shift to access flats or sharps though, interesting concept. You could definitely get a full 88 out of it that way, but might take some re-programming of thought on it. OTOH, it could be great for always playing in key... it would make accidentals more...intentional haha

[severe idol]

yeah people use transposition to turn most songs into c major to avoid shifting and making it much easier to play

[quick summit]

What DAWs / soft instruments are you using? 🙂

[severe idol]

not sure

[severe idol]

a bit strange but this game : https://www.roblox.com/games/5593470048/Virtual-Piano-Visualizations-2?refPageId=52a09f34-3209-49dc-80e0-09c670bf5923 has the best virtual piano using the format

[brave glen]

This abandoned thing looks interesting. I just install it and it works?

[soft solar]

Not abandoned, just inactive. It should work if you follow the instructions here: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi#getting-started

[edgy anvil]

The download is a bit old, there's more recent changes in the codebase with many improvements

I'll see if I can get a release with the latest stuff out, but the download should work in at least a basic form

[drowsy temple]

how do i run the midi

do i need to compile it myself

or

@fierce star

[fierce star]

This isn't really my area sorry

https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi#getting-started

Should help

[edgy anvil]

@drowsy temple the release build is a bit old but should work, if you want to use the latest stuff right now you'd need to compile it yourself but am planning on making another release soon with latest stuff

[drowsy temple]

@edgy anvil

is it a standalone app

or do i need to move the files somewhere

[soft solar]

It's a standalone app, you can download and install the latest version here: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi/releases/tag/v0.2.0

[edgy anvil]

Only other thing you need is the Analog SDK. If you're on Windows and have Wootility installed you should be good to go

Otherwise, follow the getting started on the readme to get set up: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi#getting-started

[drowsy temple]

@edgy anvil

keep getting a fataql error occured during initialization

nvm

fixed it

how do i remap keys tho

[edgy anvil]

@drowsy temple You click on the piano key and then press the key on your keyboard that you want to bind to that note

[drowsy temple]

@edgy anvil that doesnt seem to work

[edgy anvil]

Does it say you have a device connected as iirc it won't work properly unless something is there

[steel mountain]

i cant bind to more than one channel

correction i cant bind anyhting

unbinding dosent unbind either,

[grim grove]

i'm in the same boat :')

[edgy anvil]

@steel mountain @grim grove Version 0.2? What does it say on the top left? Does it correctly identify a keyboard connected?

[steel mountain]

yes shows wooting two

do i need to use a different keyboard to set the binds?

[edgy anvil]

nope

does it show anything bound already? as it should have some base ones

[steel mountain]

yes

http://minecack.com/hotlink-ok/dwLcK0Ww1a.mp4

[edgy anvil]

Hmmm, strange, you on Windows?

[steel mountain]

yes

also

unbinding not working

http://minecack.com/hotlink-ok/RRytbar9QD.mp4

you can see even when i unbind H it still plays the note

[edgy anvil]

hmmmm, lemme have a look into this

[steel mountain]

let me know if you need anything

[edgy anvil]

Figured out the problem and have fixed it, pushing new release now. Will link here when done as there is no auto-updating

[prisma raft]

the question is

have u figured out the problem

[edgy anvil]

👀

@steel mountain @grim grove Could you try out this version: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi/releases/tag/v0.2.1 ? Should be all good now

[steel mountain]

nice works

now if only it supported changing instruments

im using the coolsoft synth and cant figure out how to force it to use different instrments

midi players work though

but the wooting midi just dose the same instrument on all channels

[edgy anvil]

afaik midi is midi, not aware of it defining an instrument. I believe that's something that'd be up to the virtual midi port to determine or the application that's reading from the port

The analog midi app just pipes midi packets through the selected virtual port

don't think there's anyway to control instrument type that way

[steel mountain]

um you can definitely change instruments over physical midi.

you can select bank and preset

128 presets and like 256 banks

[edgy anvil]

physical midi != virtual midi

physical midi will be defining its interface and its capabilities. the virtual midi will define those by the app that's hosting the virtual midi port. The analog midi app just pipes messages through whatever port you have selected, it has no control over the other properties that it exposes

well, may have spoke too soon

[steel mountain]

i was going to say windows virtual midi has full general midi support

[edgy anvil]

getting a clear definition of the midi spec is tricky, different places is giving me different sets of capabilities

[steel mountain]

yeah

just like physical midi

[edgy anvil]

From what I can find, it looks like this "Program Change" message is how instrument changing works http://midi.teragonaudio.com/tech/midispec/pgm.htm

How would you expect changing instruments to work through the app?

i.e. how would you want it to work

[steel mountain]

i mean just a simple per channel would be fine, nothing to fancy

[edgy anvil]

Alright, will open an issue for it. Very little priority is on the analog midi app atm so not sure when I'll be able to get around to it

[grim grove]

I just woke up! I'll give it a try once I'm at my computer :)

[grim grove]

https://youtu.be/B6rGESv3wNI

@edgy anvil it works well!! thanks for the fix

[steel mountain]

man are lekkers that loud or is that just the mic?

that seems louder than even my clicky flaretechs

[grim grove]

i put my mic right on top of the keyboard on purpose LMFAO

i've never done a keyboard sound test but the lekker definitely isn't loud

[grim grove]

I'm also learning to be more precise with the analog, so i'm practicing not bottoming out

[steel mountain]

ah

[grim grove]

i was def bottoming out on all keypresses in that video but my 'normal' use on the lekker is the quietest keyboard i've had for sure, coming from browns and blues

[steel mountain]

i have a two with some red and blues

i like blues for modifiers

red for rest

[tepid shell]

@grim grove Try this:loopMIDI | Tobias Erichsen http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html

With LoopMIDI, you can load different audio sources to create a stack of sounds. Like Pianoteq V6.7.0

[grim grove]

oo thank you for sharing! I'll take a look :)

[wary nacelle]

Hey, I don’t know if this is the right place to ask, but I’m building a MIDI instrument, and I’d really like to use the Lekker switches in it. Would it be possible for me to source the switches and hall-effect sensors at this time?

[severe idol]

I dont think you can buy lekker switches atm

[sick timber]

You can send an email to [e-mail] with the request. Please also introduce your project and (commercial) intention. Then we are able to send over samples to help you along with development.

[wary nacelle]

@sick timber thank you! 😁

[misty pendant]

FYI, regarding changing instruments, it shouldn't actually be necessary to do it in the application itself. Not familiar with Windows, so maybe there's something weird there that makes this irrelevant, but .. changing an instrument is just another control instruction, which can be sent from any MIDI source.

So as long as you can connect multiple sources to the same synth, you can use one of those sources to change instruments.

(though I imagine it would generally be an expected feature within such an application, so you don't have to rely on another one)

Anyway, don't have a Wooting keyboard yet (preordered one the other day mainly for this potential MIDI functionality), but I wonder if anyone else has considered using a B-griff or C-griff layout (as featured on chromatic button accordions) instead of a piano layout. Seems to match a computer keyboard layout a lot more closely.

I've been playing random melodies on my non-analogue keyboard for a while using the B-griff layout. Made a webpage for it if anyone else wants to try: https://maxdamantus.gitlab.io/bayan/

(that webpage can output MIDI when using Chrome)

[dull mortar]

Good afternoon you magnificent people,

For some reason I'm receiving this error when launching Wooting Analog Midi for the first time

By the time I installed this 0.2.1_x64, I did not had Edge installed as I had it removed earlier with Revo unistaller, but apparently this requires some Edge functionality.. So I uninstalled this, re-installed Edge, re-installed this again, but the error remains the same

[prisma raft]

it doesnt require edge

[dull mortar]

but the installer triggered WebView2 Runtime

[prisma raft]

hm

i was under the impression it uses electron/chromium like all other woot apps

[dull mortar]

well, Wootility works just fine but this one doesn't

I doubt it will work after Edge uninstallation

[prisma raft]

ya so it prob changed cause it uses something else as engine

[dull mortar]

so if there's a fix available then I'm interested :b

[misty pendant]

Wootility uses Electron, the MIDI application here seems to use some "Tauri" framework, not familiar with it.

[prisma raft]

na its react of some kind

ah wait ure right

now i see the tauri dep

[dull mortar]

are there any troubleshooting tips for the "invalid title with quotes" error upon initializing this midi software? I really would like to get it up and running nvm opened issue on github

[edgy anvil]

@dull mortar Please see the github issue for my response to the issue

[severe idol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIMIQsMwgUs

wooting 2 he

[severe idol]

wonder if its possible to add a button to disable keyboard output and have it only output the midi signal instead of both

[fossil oak]

For now you can do that by making an analog profile with digital keys disabled

[edgy anvil]

Very cool! What do you think of the app?

[severe idol]

works well i like it although i couldnt get it working with another program that converts midi into keyboard input with velocity

[severe idol]

dont think this works

[sick timber]

Since the MIDI app uses the Analog SDK, you can take an analog profile and then off digital keys which disables the keyboard keys.

Really awesome to hear/see this - would it be possible for us share a clip such as this but with a keyboard cam included?

[severe idol]

ya sure

how do i disable digital keys in an analog profile?

[fossil oak]

So you didn't even try my suggestion heh

[severe idol]

i did but idk if it did it right

i jsut unbound all the keys on an analog profile

[fossil oak]

Yeah that's not it, there is an option somewhere to enable or disable digital keys.. maybe, don't actually know how it's on HE/LE

[severe idol]

ah that works

[severe idol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBLE7eLu0g8

[sick timber]

Awesome - any idea why numpad 0 was continually pressed?

[severe idol]

uh

oh i jsut noticed that

wierd

numpad 0 is gone but now its left arrow being registered

[sick timber]

Hmm

Replug the keyboard and it’ll calibrate

I assume the SDK takes the padding into account as wel but might be missing something here if it continues.

[severe idol]

ya that fixed it

[sick timber]

Do you mind to repeat the above but now without the issue 😅 the numpad basically disguised all the presses

[severe idol]

ya sure give me a minute

[severe idol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tl_nhiA49Y

[sick timber]

Thanks so much. Do you mind if I use this as an example for the MIDI app GitHub and perhaps it’ll end up somewhere on our website as the same type of example?

You can let me know which credit you’d like me to add as either a watermark or caption when displayed

[severe idol]

ya no problem you can use it anywhere you'd like and for credit just whatever is easier for you :)

[sick timber]

Then I’ll refer this as Furnik from the Discord community - thanks 👏

[tepid shell]

@severe idolVery nice playing👍 ,more midi videos, please!😋

[severe idol]

ty <3

[fierce star]

Late response but epic

[severe idol]

[deft lodge]

How's the lekker switches on the xim for analog?

[fierce star]

Lekker switches are insanely good with Analog vs flaretech

[rough plinth]

pretty much perfect 0.1mm to 4mm sensitivity

[winter crane]

Hey if this works for midi control does it also have velocity sensitivity? Just wondering.

[severe idol]

ya it does

[winter crane]

Nice! then I might actually give it a go using it as a midi controller.

[winter crane]

Are you guys using a software to connect your keyboards to a DAW or just doing it directly?

[winter crane]

Hey guys, what midi programs/DAWs are you using? I'm having a real hard time getting Cubase to recognize my keyboard as a midi device. Any help would be appreciated.

[severe idol]

im using the wooting program outputting to loopbe then just to any piano program you want

if you want it setup like a piano you can use something like freepiano or pianorhythm website

[tepid shell]

@winter craneloopMIDI Software | Tobias Erichsen http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software.html

[misty pendant]

And if you want to try something different to the traditional diatonic piano layout, my website can be used to produce MIDI output from a B-griff layout (like on a Russian accordion): https://maxdamantus.gitlab.io/bayan/

(Might be worth pointing out that all of these web versions will very likely not support velocity sensitivity)

Also, the web versions will only be able to output MIDI on Chrome.

[rough plinth]

looks like a nice layout

especially for iso

[severe idol]

https://trello.com/c/bMxrPxlw/33-comprehensive-list-of-other-sheet-sources

https://trello.com/c/3ED5yrW9/25-our-vp-guidebook

https://www.pianorhythm.me/

https://www.roblox.com/games/5593470048/Piano-Visualizations-2

𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐭𝐨 𝐬𝐞𝐭𝐮𝐩 𝐏𝐢𝐚𝐧𝐨𝐫𝐡𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐦 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐕𝐏: When you enter the Pianorhythm website you won't be able to instantly play VP. First you need to choose the correct input, and to do so you have to do this. First click on Settings > Input > Keyboard Input Mapping > Choose VIRTUAL_PIANO
To change transpose you press the HOME button to go up [+] and END for [-] And before you begin you need to change the octave to 2 so press PGUP to go higher and PGDN to go lower. You always start at 3 so just press PGDN. If you don't have those keys, there is a menu where you can change that too.

hi I'm sharing all the resources someone would need to get started playing with the same layout i use! there are also communities if you look a bit deeper with thousands of other people who play actively. you can play with them in piano games on platforms such as Garry's mod and Roblox

Trello

Comprehensive list of other sheet sources

people that (usually) transpose their sheets:

iulian - https://trello.com/b/n3cbomdF/virtual-piano-sheets
xjdiivision/nebula/kinlei - https://trello.com/b/0dGCsaeK/classical-qwerty
iriome - https://trello.com/b/vi7kJsjk/iriome-sheets
gimek - https://trello.com/b/FcKY7JbS/gimek222-qubeks-vp-sheets
tenebris - https://trello.com/b/gdo7qxlS/tenebri...

Comments

12

Trello

Our VP GuideBook!

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Important Information

[sharp steppe]

you can use it on roblox??

that's surprising lmao

[severe idol]

ya

with velocity too

[sharp steppe]

neatoo

[severe idol]

you dont need a wooting to play any of these btw just for velocity ^^

[severe idol]

https://youtu.be/1GvBTB7qE_g i did another song

[edgy anvil]

super cool! Love the use of the aoe effect for it!

[minor aspen]

sdf

[grand steeple]

Is there a quick guide somewhere on how to set up my system for the bare minimum of just playing around with a keyboard like this?

[severe idol]

if you have a Roblox account you can just join the piano vis game

link for everything you need I put above in a message ^^

[grand steeple]

what about with that website

how do you get velocity working?

[misty pendant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE8TbDVWs8Y

(not a guide on using velocity sensitivity, just a demo)

FYI, for velocity to work, you basically have to make sure you're using Wooting MIDI program to interpret the keystrokes.

Also, in my experience velocity sensitivity is fairly inaccurate without enabling tachyon mode.

(in normal mode, I could see that it was providing somewhere around 160 updates per second while in tachyon mode it was over 800 per second---pressing a key often involves only 8 updates in normal mode)

er, sorry. that 8 number was in tachyon mode.

in normal mode I can press a key and see only one event, so not possible to sense velocity from that.

[grand steeple]

I downloaded the analog midi too but it has a TON of latency?

[severe idol]

download loopbe and make the wooting midi program output to it then select loopbe as the input on piano rhythm

I highly suggest using the same format I play in since the community that plays with it has been developing for over like 15 years so there's lots of sheet music and resources that support it

[severe idol]

your velocity scale is set really high so it's just playing most of your keys at 100% volume

obv it's preference but seems to work better and actually able to hear and control when it's set lower

[misty pendant]

@severe idol Hmm.. With the velocity I chose there (2.5), I have to hit fairly hard to get max velocity.

You can see the velocity in the bar that shows up at the bottom while a key is pressed.

[severe idol]

yeah

theres other factors

[misty pendant]

Anyway, I'm planning on experimenting with different ways to produce the velocity, and maybe other modes that are not pure velocity.

[severe idol]

wym

how would that work

[misty pendant]

Sorry, gotta go to work, will explain later.

[severe idol]

ciao

[misty pendant]

Don't have scrorlback so dunno if was anothec message since my last one (switched clients), but with velocity, I suspect there should be a tendency for velocity sensitivity ta reduce at higher velocities, so you should be able to get a lot of control in the softer notes but it should get harder and harder to reach max velocity.

maybe just a matter of applying some logarithmic/exponential scale.

and for the non-velocity aspech, I'd like to look into using displacement sensitivity, which would be more suitable for simulating violin/trumpet etc, where you can play a single notu at varying volumue, and with vibrato.

and maybe some combination of both, will require experimentation.

[severe idol]

I like this idea

I've struggled with having a lot of control over velocity

seems like it would help

also playing very soft is a bit strange have to slowly press keys but sometimes won't register

[tepid shell]

If the button is 10mm high, the velocity effect is even more obvious, 4.1mm seems a bit short.

[misty pendant]

I think a lot of it is just learning to control it, just like with a regular piano.

I've been randomly messing around on a regular compuher keyboald for over a year, so it feels strange having the additional control.

To the extent that I've played muiscal keyboards (not much), I don't think I've had very good control there either.

[grand steeple]

do I have to assign all the keys in the wooting analog tool for that?

[grand steeple]

if I have the piano rhythm window selected, it detects both the midi and the digital key stroke?

[misty pendant]

You need to configure the keys in the wooting analogue tool, yes. You'll also w'nt to make sure you're only inputting in the wooting analogue tool, not another tool.

not familiar with piano rhythm, but I'm guessing it can interpret keyboard and midi input. You'll only want to interpret midi input in that application, because wooting analogue midi should be handling the keyboard input.

One thing to note, at least on Linux, the wooting analogue midi application will interpret key presses regardless of application focus, so you'll need to wake sure you're noh fogused on another applicationp

[severe idol]

You'll have to disable digital keys in the wootility I just set a separate profile with it disabled

[severe idol]

Yeah

[severe idol]

youll want shift ammount set to 1

and just have to do the white keys

[grand steeple]

There's an option in room settings to accept midi input only

[grand steeple]

Right shift doesn't work I noticed

[severe idol]

o ye

still required for roblox

but youll need another program for that lol

[grand steeple]

For what?

[grand steeple]

What's required?

[severe idol]

if you want velocity on roblox pianos

the program

youll have to input midi into this program

and it converts it back to keypresses

but then in roblox

to get velocity it uses a kinda jank method

the program press like alt + w or alt + t and that controls the volume of your piano in game

along with the key you pressed

if you look at the video i sent earlier the little blue bar on the top right of the piano gui indicates the velocity

it was originally designed just for actual midi keyboards (pianos) to play on roblox

but also works for keyboards that output midi lol

[grand steeple]

so I have everything set up for using pianorhythm but there's quite a bit of latency still (far less than before, but still a noticeable amount that is annoying. Any ideas?

[misty pendant]

Looks like pianorhythm is a website, so I'd expect latency if it's pcoducing the audio.

Personally I use fluidsynth for rendering the audio, but that's on Linux, not sure how well it works on Windows.

(and when i do use fluidsynth, I specifigally avoid usdnf yilseaudio for lahtency reasons)

pulseaudio*

[severe idol]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/173gbZ-BQJgv10Ig2bXZtFoQQcFpcR0qb?usp=sharing

youll have to download a soundfont and select it

also under the keymap menu select the vp.map

to load soundfont go to instrument and click browse then find your soundfont of choice

[grand steeple]

I'm getting the same double input issue here

I see no way to disable keyboard inputs here

🤷🏻‍♂️

[grand steeple]

this just doubles everything

[severe idol]

click into something else

[grand steeple]

then why does the keyboard map matter?

[severe idol]

transpose on arrow keys

personally sometimes i dont wann aplay with velocity

esp if im just testing a song or something

[grand steeple]

ah

what settings do you use for note trigger and velocity scale when you do?

seems hard to get anything that isn't just ᑫᵘᶦᵉᵗ or LOUD

[severe idol]

0.25 and 1

it takes a bit of practice to get used to

[vernal nymph]

Hellooo!
I guess this question comes up alot but, what software should i download to get out the CC's from the keyboard?

I have tried a thing called WootingPiano from microdee but i can't get that to work...

[edgy anvil]

Try the one linked in the channel description: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-analog-midi @vernal nymph

[vernal nymph]

Ah! Did not know about channel descriptions 😄 Wil try!

[vernal nymph]

Hmm, there is no midi device showing up in my software, maybe thats not what that software is supposed to do?

I can see that Wooting Analog Midi is recieving signals since the bars is moving.

[edgy anvil]

What platform are you on?

You'll need some virtual midi software to connect it to

on Windows you can use loopMidi

[vernal nymph]

Sorry, yeah on windows.
So then i choose loopMidi in the "Wooting analog midi" software, and then choose loopmidi in my software?

[prisma raft]

so i can use my wooting in flstudio?

[vernal nymph]

You should be able to @prisma raft

[prisma raft]

hmmm been trying to get the background music going for a song

tried using garageband on my macböök but im not good at this

[vernal nymph]

Woho, got it to work now!

[chilly cave]

I tried setting up analog midi on mac os, but I only get a white screen. Does anyone else have this issue in MacOS?

[edgy anvil]

did you install the analog sdk?

[chilly cave]

Yes, the issue seems to only occur in the packaged dmg. When I directly build from source it works perfectly

[edgy anvil]

Oh, interesting, could be something broke with the release build

[misty pendant]

I think I know what that is.

When I built it from source (on Linux—haven't tried a precompiled build), I had to change the CSP used by the framework.

index 31fe859..aa871f0 100644
--- a/src-tauri/tauri.conf.json
+++ b/src-tauri/tauri.conf.json
@@ -61,7 +61,7 @@
       }
     ],
     "security": {
-      "csp": "default-src blob: data: filesystem: ws: http: https: 'unsafe-eval' 'unsafe-inline'"
+      "csp": "default-src blob: data: filesystem: ws: http: https: tauri: 'unsafe-eval' 'unsafe-inline'"
     }
   }
 }

Might be related to some versioning thing. Maybe a different version ignores the CSP or maybe it uses a scheme other than "tauri://". iirc when I looked into it, it looked like a lot of that configuration was probably just copied from some example tauri application.

(without that change, I also just got a white screen, since the HTML was referring to a script using a URL that was something like "tauri://blah/abcdef012345.js", which was blocked by the CSP)

FYI, the original CSP is pretty silly. It basically just allows everything.

[thin cloud]

any chance wooting will add native midi support? (make keyboard appear as a midi device like how xbox controller stuff works)

[misty pendant]

I'd be surprised if it went in that direction, since the X-Box controller stuff works like that for compatibility reasons and I imagine doing it in the keyboard (as opposed to emulating a joystick in Windows/macOS/Linux) is probably still relatively natural since the keyboard is already a USB HID.

And usually when people are doing MIDI stuff on a computer, they're already running multiple specialised bits of software in the OS, so an extra bit of software for simulating a MIDI controller is not going to seem unusual. It's also pretty typical for MIDI sources to be created in software, unlike joysticks.

If I could request something particular to MIDI handling, it would be adding some sort of monotonic timestamp to the analogue HID reports, since at least in Linux (using /dev/hidraw) and Android (using UsbRequest), there are no timestamps provided, so you have to use an extra system call after reading each report and hope that there was no significant delay between generation of the report and the return of whatever system call is used to tell the time.

I feel like the Linux and Android programs I've written (haven't published them anywhere) achieve noticably better latency handling than the wooting-analog-midi program (using the wooting-analog-sdk, which imo doesn't work very well when you need precise timing information between changes).

[misty pendant]

Actually, I guess a further improvement for MIDI handling would simply be somehow producing key distance data more frequently, since even 800 reports per second doesn't seem like quite enough to detect velocity smoothly. It's pretty easy to press a key such that it will only receive 3, 2 or even 1 report before bottoming out, so I think it tends to work better just measuring the time between the first detection of the key press and when the key is pressed below the activation point (and often the first report will be of the key being below the activation point, so velocity is basically infinity).

[lavish silo]

I don't know everything about their set up, but I would guess the communication buffer is basically the only thing responsible for the slow down. The sensors are more than capable of naturally producing a proportional speed output. It is very likely that the processor could as well, for it does detect fractional changes across any key as it does is a good reason to believe it could respond to those sensors. Atmel-xmega-128a4u, seemingly inside wooting one, sure seems fast enough to handle the job of calculating key speed and it would be what you are looking for. Time stamping the inputs as they occur is a pretty good idea so it can buffer up everything and you might get a real world offset for what might be called USB frametime though this really seems like something that should be baked in to the midi standard. I am guessing the wooting midi extension is all being applied by the computer to create a virtual midi device. The keyboard processor will likely need to onboard some of that.

[prisma raft]

processing doesnt happen on the kbd

at least for midi

the midi apps use the abalog sdk to receive the analog data every few ms

so all calculations happen on the pc

[thin cloud]

i just know it's relatively easy to make a midi hardware controller, and although it would obviously take a little more work to implement and integrate with wootility, it would create a hugely useful and reliable compatibility layer to use wooting keyboards not just for music but also control software and hardware for lighting and fx that all uses midi

[prisma raft]

i think such a midi compat layer should still be a seperate software since the wootility is just a heavy software

[misty pendant]

I don't think the timestamping is as important if the MIDI data has already been produced, since the MIDI data already has the computed velocity.

It's just that whatever is computing the velocity needs accurate timestamps, which is currently software on the computer.

I suspect it would also be sufficient for the USB host controller to record a timestamp when it starts receiving the packet (which is already on an interrupt endpoint), but dunno if HCs normally do that.

Probably also sufficient for the OS to record a timestamp when the HC interrupts the CPU, though I'm not entirely sure how that works. As mentioned before, Linux at least doesn't seem to provide a timestamp coupled either through hidraw or directly through the USB ioctls (as used by libusb, or by UsbConnection/UsbRequest on Android)

But yes, another issue with MIDI in the keyboard itself as BigBrainAFK alluded to is you might want to tune it, and Wootility is pretty heavy.

I've been using my own program to do MIDI using the wooting on Android, and I don't expect there's going to be a Wootility for Android.

[thin cloud]

if there was onboard midi, you could set it up on pc with Wootility (or just turn it on to some default with Mode+M) and then use it on Android with any midi app. That seems like an ideal use case to me.

Also I'm sure you could get more accurate velocity info from firmware dedicated to it instead of polling

[misty pendant]

Well, if the device includes timestamps in reports (and produces reports as a sufficient frequency), then the computer (or phone) can calculate the exact same velocity.

(fwiw, my current Android solution also works with any MIDI app/website, since it just uses the Android MIDI API)

(I particularly just use an app called "FulidSynth MIDI")

FluidSynth*

[misty pendant]

also regarding polling: reading analogue values from the device as-is does not need to involve polling. In my programs, the keyboard reader is normally idle because it's waiting for the OS to receive the next USB interrupt packet.

though using the wooting-analog-midi API, you do need to poll (one of the reasons I avoided it)

[misty pendant]

er, using the wooting-analog-sdk API*

[thin cloud]

how else do you read analog values other than wooting-analog-sdk?

(i'm still new to wooting stuff)

oh you're doing direct requests to the keyboard via the usb stack?

so basically writing your own driver

i'd say that's too low level for the vast majority of users and even devs

(i don't consider wootility, which doesn't even have to be running unlike every other modern keyboard and mouse driver, "heavy")

[misty pendant]

But when you're doing stuff with some MIDI controller you'd probably expect some visual feedback of what the state is, and maybe also be able to graphically configure some of it.

eg, which MIDI channel it's currently outputting to, what the current transposition is.

and you'd likely want to be able to change both of those settings, maybe more. For transposition I have that control bound to the arrow keys, but I can also see the current setting on my screen.

[misty pendant]

I also like seeing a graphical view of the keyboard layout, so I have that as part of my application, where it shows names/colours of notes for all the keys, and graphically shows both the MIDI velocity and displacement distance for each key.

I guess another aspect is that having that special application allows an obvious focus place for MIDI to work.

When my application receives focus, it opens the hidraw file and starts reading from it. When it loses focus, it closes that file, so it won't keep producing MIDI output while I'm doing other things on my computer.

(My Android application actually works differently; in Android I just claim all interfaces on the USB keyboard while my activity is alive, so I can keep using it while looking at other things on the device, or while switching instruments in the synthesiser application)

(I don't normally use a keyboard on Android for other things, so claiming the entire device seems fine for me there)

I guess such behaviour would also be something you might expect to control graphically while you're doing MIDI stuff, since I can imagine my Android behaviour might still be desirable on a computer in some cases.

[scarlet merlin]

Hi, I’m diy builder for electronics for audio. I’m interested to build a midi controller with analog mechanical switches. I saw wooting blog post about analog switches, and it mentioned I can contact wooting guys if interested about the switches like lekker. Not sure this is the right channel to ask, but maybe it’s close enough. May I know can I buy the analog switch and corresponding sensor from wooting?

[prisma raft]

the sensor is any hall effect sensor

the switch just moves a magnet up and down

you can probably get swiTches from wooting but the sensors arent anything special and the switches dont have any real magic in them either

@scarlet merlin

[edgy anvil]

You can email us at [e-mail] to enquire