🔌│tech

[ashen spindle]

https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic/l_3nm idk looks like an official tsmc side calling it nm

[astral haven]

3nm technology

Not 3nm transistors or node

[wheat plume]

What's the best way to carry a computer onto a plane?

[pale sigil]

you dont

you ship it

[wheat plume]

Find a large enough box
Pad the fuck out of it and box the computer up in it?

[ashen spindle]

too big for a carry on anyway assuming its a normal tower

[astral haven]

PC tower you ship
If it's small you can pack it
If you are in a rush order a case and psu at your destination and pack your GPU, ram, and motherboard

[wheat plume]

Hmm....

Okk

[astral haven]

Laptop you carry on

[wheat plume]

Yes

But I'm talking about my tower

My mom basically kicking me out after college
I may be going to live with my sister at a house together

If we can get a place

Ok.....

Wtf

https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/australia-surveillance-bill/

[wheat plume]

Can we just all collectively cancel Australia?

[crisp granite]

no

we'd lose Aeon

:(

uh

no thanks

pretty sure the DPRK doesn't need any more white seed

...I don't

tasers

and service pistols, of course

that rarely get pulled out, thank god

Locke

I can come and go as I please in Canada

phone tapping does not equal prison state

I was pretty sure you just fucked up the spelling of it

ah

you fail to realise that I don't give a shit

security and privacy has always been a joke

at least, in my lifetime

no point in getting my panties in a bunch over something I have absolutely no say or control over

¯_(ツ)_/¯

it may as well be

:|

just ask the taliban if you can borrow their burnt out AKs since they're upgrading to the latest and greatest from the Afghan Security Forces

[young pecan]

@fair gull Right, so I spoke to the dude I got the board from, it’s a custom BIOS built for massive mining farms. Apparently I do need to boot into Windows and use apps, which is cursed.

[fair gull]

i meam id classify u as a massive mining farm

[young pecan]

Pfff.

I have 2 mining rigs.

The farms I'm talking about are 500+.

[fair gull]

i mean

lemme count mine real quick

0

[young pecan]

@fair gull Obtain loan.

[young pecan]

shrugs That'd be up to you, personally I think more businesses is more good.

Of course.

More businesses in general are awesome.

[fair gull]

i already have like 5 or 6

[wheat plume]

https://youtu.be/azGOKCBzM10

[young pecan]

That's an F.

[wheat plume]

Ah yes

Let me just plug my ethernet adapter card into my ram slot

LOL
KALI LINUX

[reef patrol]

[fair gull]

i dont get it

[wheat plume]

its a PCIE Ethernet adapter

But the product page on amazon tells you to install it into the RAM slot

Step 2

[fair gull]

so?

[wheat plume]

That would brick the computer if you did that and tried to power it on

[timid chasm]

brick is a strong word

[wheat plume]

Its still a bad idea

[fair gull]

idk

[wheat plume]

People may use these steps for installation if they buy it

[ashen spindle]

but how does that relate to kali linux

[fair gull]

i do it daily

u dont know how many happy customers i have that had broken motherboards without them knowing

[wheat plume]

They just have it in their step list for some uknown reason xd

[wheat plume]

he wants me to explain how to use a mouse?!

[umbral knot]

have you seen cloudy with a chance of meatballs? Some people don't know how

[wheat plume]

Yeah...

[umbral knot]

but good luck explaining that

[wheat plume]

Done....

[crimson wigeon]

Move mouse cursor how?

[umbral knot]

take the mouse and drag it across the screen

[wheat plume]

Great feedback

[crisp granite]

top notch

👌

[umbral knot]

is that THE dell

you getting graded by a company

[wheat plume]

He added a comment here, but didnt tell me where to add the info to

[crisp granite]

wait...Lana...are you working for Dell now?

[wheat plume]

no :')

[crisp granite]

:(

[wheat plume]

I tihnk office uses your computer brand name if you dont let it use your account name

[umbral knot]

My grandpa worked for dell

like directly for Michael Dell

he balling out of control

[misty saffron]

the camera icon makes no sense lol

use the actual download icon tf

[wheat plume]

ikr .-.

Turns out he wants me to describe how to use each icon, like what to do after you select it with left click

The damn theme they use blocks almost the entire bottom left corner of the page so I cant put anything there
such wasted space

[young pecan]

https://etherchain.org/burn :O
Look at that Eth burn!!!

560 million dollars of Eth burned thus far.

And we're deflationary.

[young pecan]

LADS IT'S SO GOOD!

-1 Eth/min.

[fair gull]

the frick is going on

[crimson wigeon]

Crypto nonsense

[fair gull]

im unsure what this graph shows me

[young pecan]

EIP1559 added a thing that burns Eth depending on amount of transactions done per block mined.

This makes it deflationary, meaning we lose Eth over time.

[crimson wigeon]

What the hecks a GWei anyway what do they mean by "gas"

[young pecan]

A Gwei is a fragment of an Ethereum, like a Satoshi is a fragment of a Bitcoin. Gas is an amount of Gwei paid in transfer fees.

Basically EIP1559 aims to make Ethereum deflationary, thus making each coin worth more money.

The burn there shows the Eth emission.

[crimson wigeon]

That's a dumb name why not just say millieth or microeth nanoeth

[reef patrol]

Now y'all are just making up meme words.

[young pecan]

:p

[young pecan]

Agreed, but then we don't say microdollar or nanodollar.

[crimson wigeon]

It's also not a currency we have to cut up like that

[young pecan]

raised eyebrow

We do, though.

1 cent, 10 cents, 100 cents (1 dollar).

[reef patrol]

Something something 300 bullion Zimbabwe dollars.

[young pecan]

We don't, however, cut it into 13 decimal places.

[crimson wigeon]

Yeah exactly

[young pecan]

That's the only differene.

So... what's your point? We'd need a different name for each decimal place.

Or we can call a Eth 'cent' a Gwei.

Or we'd get into really stupid terminology like 20 million nanoeth.

[crimson wigeon]

13.6E10

and that kind of stuff

Makes sense, doesn't require dumb names

[young pecan]

Makes logging awful.

[crimson wigeon]

You should always store the "raw" numbers without fancy crap

[young pecan]

We do.

[crimson wigeon]

And present it in a sensible manner that any outsider looking in can easily understand

[young pecan]

0.000002 Ether, that also having a Gwei denominator for accuracy purposes.

[crimson wigeon]

See that's way more understandable

[young pecan]

Most people just use decimal places of a token, though. Hard to get more simple than that.

[young pecan]

That's literally the Gwei system.

[crimson wigeon]

My point is what the fuck's a Gwei you expect people to just understand that immediately?

[young pecan]

No, but do you know how random other currencies work without research?

Not all of em. :p

[crimson wigeon]

No, but usually they're very sensible eg 527.28 <whatever>

[young pecan]

Aye, exactly.

[crimson wigeon]

The whatever always being the same regardless of amount

I may or may not also still think of eth as a meme after the DAO fiasco

[young pecan]

Fair enough.

[fair gull]

https://youtu.be/G2u7NOpzcBQ?t=5036

i take my hat off to this dude

https://blog.pimaker.at/texts/rvc1/

[misty saffron]

uhhhh

[fair gull]

wlhy are u using ie tho

[pale sigil]

@wheat plume ngl

you got really lucky with your gpu lol

[wheat plume]

wdym?

[pale sigil]

Like your GPU is worth so much more second hand these days

[wheat plume]

o.o

I could sell and get an AMD one

[pale sigil]

GL getting an amd one

[wheat plume]

;-;

[pale sigil]

You'd be getting less

Regardless

[wheat plume]

hmm

[ashen spindle]

no lucky would've been if she had taken the 5700 that would be worth mroe than msrp now

[crimson wigeon]

And think of the mining potential!

[fair gull]

man am i glad i bought an entire super computer

[young pecan]

He knows, do think of the mining potential.

[zinc fulcrum]

hi guys dumb question...got a new job..they are sending me a macbook..can i use a wooting keyboard on it?

never used a macbook in my life

[astral haven]

Congrats and yes

[zinc fulcrum]

thanks and thank god

[astral haven]

Wouldn't recommend playing games on your work MacBook lmao

[zinc fulcrum]

of course yeah

really like the twoHE sounds..and im an accountnat so i use the 10 key alot

thanks again

man

[astral haven]

Yea I'm using it on my work pc and it's pretty fantastic

If you are wfh I highly recommend getting a kvm or at least a USB switch

Keep your peripherals plugged into it and press a button to switch

[zinc fulcrum]

sorry a KVM?

is that like a hub?

[astral haven]

Basically a hub that plugs into two computers

You can plug mouse, keyboard, microphone and camera into it and you can press a button to have the devices switch between computers

[shadow minnow]

GPU I want is in stock… for 500€ more than I would pay for it

[astral haven]

Just don't live outside the us 🌈

[ashen spindle]

I mean, do you even know what the msrp for it is?

maybe it was almost at that

[crisp granite]

MSRP for any RTX 3080 is €1100 or less

I'm assuming this was listed in the 1500 to 1700 range

[ashen spindle]

I means its a higher end model with waterblock

so the msrp is gonna be higher than air cooler

[crisp granite]

which is why I allotted a few hundred euros of clearance on what would be a 750€ ish budget model

👍

[shadow minnow]

Almost year ago 3080s went for 999$. So I don’t think normal msrp for 3080 ti would be over 1500€. But who knows, with current MSRPs…

[crisp granite]

oh, 3080ti

bexin, buddy

listen

may as well spring the €3k or more you'd need to get whatever higher model than the 3090 comes out when the time comes

since you plan on rocking with the system for a long time

the extra VRAM may also come in handy later on

[ashen spindle]

I mean the ti is 1200, waterblock like 200, so I doubt any model with that is ever below 1500

[shadow minnow]

Most of 3090s apart from costing too much for me don’t have actively cooled half of vram unfortunately

[astral haven]

There are to my knowledge zero 3090 with active rear vram

[shadow minnow]

But yeah, even if I wanted can’t spend 3000€ on that. Apart from that being possibly higher than other parts in total, not living on sandbox mode and don’t have infinite money.

[ashen spindle]

slap a heatpad on it and metal backplate and done

[crisp granite]

bullshit

everyone lives on sandbox mode

until the end of the month when the credit card bill comes in

[shadow minnow]

Ek sells some waterblocks with active watercooled rear vram afaik

[astral haven]

Plenty of waterblocks

But none stock

[reef patrol]

Huehue

[astral haven]

Still waiting for my Optimus waterblock :(

[shadow minnow]

Waterblocked 3080 for 1350€ kinda surprised me though.

[crisp granite]

I'd rather cut my pinkie off than pay that much

[young pecan]

Honestly I think the 3080 is the stupidest card you could buy rn.

Not enough VRAM to keep for ages, it’s slightly better than the 3070Ti, but not enough to justify the price, and the scalp prices make it stupid.

You’d be way smarter to find a 3090.

And even then, hells no.

[crisp granite]

or try to snag the new card the day it hits shelves

[young pecan]

The real play is buying old and waiting for Gen 4.

[shadow minnow]

3090 out of budget so 3080 ti remains the only option

[young pecan]

Literally buy old and wait for next gen.

[crisp granite]

the real play is using an iGPU, skipping the budget GPU and saving the costs for that and buying a model up for the next gen

[young pecan]

Yeah, that’d also work.

[shadow minnow]

But atm waterforce wb model of 3080 ti costs same as 3090 waterforce wb

[astral haven]

the 3090 is really good

[crisp granite]

then just get the 90 model, extra VRAM for the same price?

fuck yeah!

[shadow minnow]

It’s still too expensive

[young pecan]

My guy, just buy a waterblock instead of buying a waterforce card.

[shadow minnow]

500€ too expensive

[crisp granite]

my guy

just game on an iGPU

[young pecan]

It will be cheaper and better.

[shadow minnow]

Would end up costing even more

At least atm

[ashen spindle]

not if you get a FE card

[young pecan]

2nd goddamn hand, fuck.

Or FE.

[ashen spindle]

msrp+waterblock ez

[shadow minnow]

Well if I managed to get it at msrp of course yes

[astral haven]

MSRP fe in Europe is entirely impossible

[young pecan]

Ngl, get a mate to buy one in the US and send it over.

[ashen spindle]

my 4 msrp cards I got want a word

[young pecan]

Or buy one off Quin.

[reef patrol]

FE aren't even sold in many European countries 😄

AMD on the other hand have weekly drops.

[astral haven]

Europe?

[ashen spindle]

germany

[astral haven]

Wtf

[crisp granite]

sounds like an issue with being European

[ashen spindle]

so, last I checked still in the EU

[astral haven]

What store?

[crisp granite]

mindfactory, probably

[ashen spindle]

the only one that has FE cards, Notebooksbilliger

they get FE stock for germany, netherland and austria I think?

[shadow minnow]

The waterforce wb 3000 model actually seems to be the cheapest 3090 I could get new.

[ashen spindle]

ldlc get stock for france, belgium and some others

[astral haven]

Got some proof?

[ashen spindle]

of what

[astral haven]

$1500 3090

Even vat over msrp

[ashen spindle]

I mean I didn't grab a 3090 just 3080/ti

[astral haven]

So $1200 3080ti or $700 3080

[wheat plume]

How was the second free?

[astral haven]

21% over msrp if google is correct...

It's impossible because of vat lol

[crimson wigeon]

So tax and some markup

[astral haven]

Yea it's only 2% over vat + msrp

But that's not the actual MSRP...

[ashen spindle]

What

[astral haven]

Fe MSRP is exactly 700 usd

700 USD is around 600 eur

[ashen spindle]

Do you want me to get waybackmachine to prove on launch even the Nvidia site did not have exactly 700€as price listed before they stopped selling on the page?

That is the msrp price in euro

[astral haven]

$700 is the real msrp

700 euro is the European price

Because of euro tax

It's not complicated lol

[ashen spindle]

Uhh, please find me where they ever showed 700€ to be the msrp

[astral haven]

Never

[crisp granite]

maybe on launch day?

[astral haven]

$700 is 590€

MSRP therefore is 590€

[crisp granite]

VAT accounts for some of that as well

[ashen spindle]

Shocking news, msrp can be different for different regions...

[crisp granite]

in germany, it's...20% iirc

so that could easily make up the rest, no?

[ashen spindle]

We never had 1:1 msrp with the actual dollar value

[astral haven]

Ah but that's not the MSRP of the product

[ashen spindle]

[astral haven]

That's the regional inflation of msrp

[ashen spindle]

No?

[astral haven]

That's literally what it is

[crisp granite]

MSRP is set by the company, wherever they sell

that ain't inflation regionally

that's just...setting your prices

[ashen spindle]

It stands for Suggested retail price. And the suggested price does not need to be exactly the same in every region

This is the msrp Nvidia set for the euro market

Doesn’t matter what the dollar or yen price is

[astral haven]

The MSRP is the value stated by the manufacturer for the recommended price
I'm not aware of any manufacturers who provide a true MSRP outside of their local region

MSRP is a value you put on a datsheet

[reef patrol]

MSRP includes sales taxes.

[astral haven]

It does not

And vat is not a sales tax

[reef patrol]

It literally is sales tax.

[astral haven]

Nope

[crisp granite]

VAT is sales tax

hidden

baked into the price you see on the shelf

[astral haven]

Vat is a value added tax

[reef patrol]

VAT is literally a pointless term that refers to the sales tax of that country.

[astral haven]

It is fundamentally different from how a sales tax functions

[crisp granite]

nope, pretty much the exact same, other than where it's presented

[astral haven]

No

[reef patrol]

This should be good.

[crisp granite]

no

u

[astral haven]

A vat is alot more complicated and is implemented on a very large scale, usually the country

[crisp granite]

ok, I'm gonna shut up, I'll trust the duck who's been paying VAT his whole life

[astral haven]

I'm a european citizen my guy

[reef patrol]

Last I checked sales taxes were also you know... NATIONal.

[astral haven]

Nope

[crisp granite]

as am I, I just don't live there

😛

[reef patrol]

Yes they fucking are.

[astral haven]

There is the national sales tax sure
But there's also the state and county and city sales taxes

[reef patrol]

Not in my country my dude

[astral haven]

That's the difference between vat and a sales tax for the end user

[reef patrol]

Except when it isn't.

[astral haven]

A vat is nation wide and the proceeds are split up in a heirarchy depending on the value added by each step

[reef patrol]

I don't know what kind of arcane ledger system y'all are using, but in these parts sales tax and VAT are exactly the same thing. A predefined percentage of the product's value added on top for the consumer to pay.

[astral haven]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/valueaddedtax.asp
A vat is very complicated on the back end and presents an easy number to the end user

[reef patrol]

It really isn't complicated...

[astral haven]

You obviously don't understand either what a vat is or what a sales tax is

[crisp granite]

only difference is where you see it

[reef patrol]

Clearly do you. xD

[astral haven]

Nah

It can be presented the same

Most retailers in Europe present it like a sales tax

But it's not a sales tax

By definition

[reef patrol]

If it talks like a dog, and it walks like a dog. And everyone refers to it as thus.

[astral haven]

Technically it's an income tax by raw definition

As it varies depending on the income of the region

[crisp granite]

you can't tell

but I am not drunk enough

to think about taxes and how they function

[astral haven]

That's the problem

[crisp granite]

good ideea

[reef patrol]

I literally don't know a single place in Europe that does this. I'd love some actual examples of where buying something from Berlin differs from Frankfurt. xD

[astral haven]

Those are the same region

[crisp granite]

depends on the country

[astral haven]

Both are germany

[crisp granite]

some have VAT rates dependent on province iirc

others are entirely just national VAT rates

[reef patrol]

I'm not German. Want me butcher the country?

[astral haven]

European economic region is all that matters

[crisp granite]

don't you fly south and drop dookies during the colder months?

[reef patrol]

No no. You specifically said it differed within a country

[astral haven]

No?

[reef patrol]

Now cough up some examples.

[astral haven]

I said region

Don't try to strawman me I know your game

[reef patrol]

Bitch please.

[crisp granite]

🙈

[reef patrol]

This entire fucking discussion has been EU centric. And now you move the goalposts.

Im out.

[astral haven]

What?

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/what-vat_en
Literally the european union is the only system enforcing a vat in the world, how could it not be eu centric???

Note how it never says sales tax?
That's because it's not a sales tax

[ashen spindle]

I really don’t care, 719€ is the official price Nvidia lists a 3080 for so by all intents and purposes that’s the msrp for the card here

[reef patrol]

Your arguments are circular and ridiculous. xD

[astral haven]

Best price you can get is not msrp

[reef patrol]

"VAT can be different from city to city"
"two German cities are the same region!"

Pick one.

[astral haven]

Where TF did I say it could be different from city to city????

[reef patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/indignation-jump-window-done-gif-3443826

[astral haven]

Show me

Where did I say that

[reef patrol]

Consumers treat VAT and Sales tax as the same, retailers do as well and governments.

Good day sir. Off to bed.

[astral haven]

I've provided two sources who say that that is untrue but alright

Oh shit china has a vat system?

Did not know

[ashen spindle]

So if Nvidia says 719€ is the suggested retail price for a 3080 how can that not be the msrp, when they also sold it for that

[astral haven]

Nvidia announced the MSRP on stage...

[reef patrol]

I'll leave you with this simple question. When someone asks "German VAT or French VAT" are they referring to the difference in added sales tax difference directly based on whether or not the buyer is from the same county as the seller and how much that company has sold abroad within the open market?

The answer is yes.

Conclusion. Same fucking thing

[reef patrol]

And yes - MSRP still includes the sales tax.

[astral haven]

That's by definition not how a sales tax works

[reef patrol]

That is by definition how sales tax works in the EU.

[ashen spindle]

I don’t care about the dollar price, the official Nvidia price in Euros is 719€

[astral haven]

Mansen please read the linked articles on vat and how they specifically state it is not a sales tax

[astral haven]

Ok?
That's not msrp

[ashen spindle]

??? What

[reef patrol]

You're far too caught up in dictionary pedantry. I am talking practical terms here.

[ashen spindle]

The Suggested Retail price of a 3080 is 719€

[astral haven]

Good for you but it is a very large difference

[reef patrol]

There is no VAT, only sales tax eaves hands"

[ashen spindle]

So how can it not be the msrp

[astral haven]

No

[ashen spindle]

Yes

[astral haven]

That's RRP

Not msrp

[ashen spindle]

Tf is rrp

[astral haven]

MSRP is a base level stated publicly by the manufacturer

[reef patrol]

And yet only you seem to care. Everyone else do not

[astral haven]

RRP is what I see on my invoice when I order something at my store

[ashen spindle]

I want to know what the abbreviation stands for

[reef patrol]

MSRP is a suggested price. It can definitely march your receipt.

[astral haven]

Recommended Retail Price

[astral haven]

my receipt
As a retail store

[reef patrol]

Yes. Your receipt.

[astral haven]

No

[reef patrol]

My dude you need to work in retail.

[astral haven]

Not the price on the shelf or the customers receipt

I currently work in retail...

[reef patrol]

Yes it fucking is. Oh my god.

The fact that retailers choose to up the price has nothing to do with MSRP.

[astral haven]

Correct

[reef patrol]

MSRP is literally a baseline suggestion from the manufacturer. Whether or not a retailer follows it is their prerogative.

[astral haven]

nope

[reef patrol]

...yes

[astral haven]

That's the RRP

[reef patrol]

...no

[astral haven]

MSRP is public information

RRP is not

Usually confidential

[ashen spindle]

Ok so your point is by technical definition it’s not msrp, but everyone here is assuming it’s msrp because that’s how people view it here (UVP as the German term)

[astral haven]

Cheap shit is confidential with no nda

[pale sigil]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08TJ2649W?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

thats one hell of a price

[astral haven]

Expensive shit has ndas attached

[astral haven]

It's a garbage ssd

No dram

[pale sigil]

OH

really?

[astral haven]

980 pro is competent one

[ashen spindle]

If Nvidia would’ve launched the card with German audience they would have had a slide showing „719€ UVP“ and that’s how everyone views msrp

[reef patrol]

DRAM is overrated.

[ashen spindle]

So to reword it, I got the cards for the officially recommended price from Nvidia.

Happy?

[astral haven]

Ah but when Nvidia launched the 1080? In china it was still $799 MSRP
Then later they listed the Chinese prices

[reef patrol]

799$ is... The American MSRP obviously.

[astral haven]

Sure
But what's more accurate to say is you got your card for 719€ because that's your recommended price
Recommended price changes by region

[reef patrol]

MSRP has never been a global pricing scheme.

[astral haven]

Ah yes the Chinese MSRP in china is on us dollars

[ashen spindle]

So you mean what you could say is, 719€ is the suggested retail price of the manufacturer for this region

[reef patrol]

Maybe read that again.

[astral haven]

Not officially but yes you could say that and only be fudging the truth slightly

[ashen spindle]

No it is official

[astral haven]

Sorry in us dollars

[astral haven]

No
That's the official price available for sale

It's not the product MSRP

[ashen spindle]

"The list price, also known as the manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP), or the recommended retail price (RRP), or the suggested retail price (SRP) of a product is the price at which the manufacturer recommends that the retailer sell the product. "

yes its wikipedia so might not be legally accurate

[astral haven]

Oh wow Wikipedia simplifies a complicated subject what a surprise

[reef patrol]

It sums it up quite nicely in fact

[ashen spindle]

but thats how everyone uses it who is not in the legal system writing laws about it

[astral haven]

Still incorrect to say that you bought a 3080 for MSRP

[reef patrol]

nVidias MSRP has always included Danish taxes here in Denmark. The Listed Price.

[astral haven]

You bought a 3080 for the German msrp

[ashen spindle]

which is a msrp..

[astral haven]

Yep
You bought it for the listed price

[astral haven]

Not the msrp

[ashen spindle]

so how does it get defined which one is THE msrp?

[astral haven]

I have a meter

[reef patrol]

MSRP aka. What Carmon means is US MSRP.

[astral haven]

I don't have the meter

[astral haven]

A Chinese product would have a Chinese msrp

[ashen spindle]

yes technically it's the UVP as its the german price

do you think anyone knows what UVP means?

no so I use MSRP because it's the same thing

[reef patrol]

And we're back to what can only be considered extreme fly fucking of the dictionary terms that no one used in practice.

[astral haven]

It is beyond misleading to say you got a 3080 for msrp

[reef patrol]

Only in your mind.

[ashen spindle]

who am I misleading with saying that

[reef patrol]

Consumers and retailers alike don't agree with you in every day language

[astral haven]

It doesn't fit the actual definition and it is not accurate

[ashen spindle]

it's how everyone uses it who talks about gpu prices

[astral haven]

Anyone who watches the product announcements on release day...

[reef patrol]

Who lives in the US maybe

[astral haven]

Maybe how your friend group does

[reef patrol]

You can argue all you want but fact remains that everyone else uses MSRP defined as "what the consumer pays"

[ashen spindle]

by friend group you mean literally everyone I ever talk to, yes

[astral haven]

But not anyone regularly talking with a bunch of international folks will say MSRP and mean the regional specific pricing

[reef patrol]

Hell even review sites use it like that. When Linus refers to MSRP he means the suggested retail value.

[astral haven]

At least not anyone competent

[ashen spindle]

guess anandtech also is incompetent now

[astral haven]

Nope
He will always say that the MSRP is incorrect and substitute the retail value

[reef patrol]

Nope.

[astral haven]

Anandtech reports the MSRP 🤔

[ashen spindle]

they had reviews with usd/gpb/eur prices

[astral haven]

Prices are not msrp

MSRP is usually never available for a product not sold by the manufacturer

[reef patrol]

Not in your world, no. On earth however...

[astral haven]

Look at Intel and how much egg they have on their face about MSRP

They outright removed it from their website

[ashen spindle]

you mean their 1k listing price?

which is not msrp?

[astral haven]

No

They used to have an msrp

Looooong ago

[ashen spindle]

I mean I'm not going to say I got it at the UVP because no non-german person knows wtf that means

RRP even less people know

and msrp people know what it means

[astral haven]

You can say German msrp

[ashen spindle]

or just msrp...

[astral haven]

Which would be vastly more informative

[reef patrol]

So now we e gone from arguing that MSRP isn't MSRP to... Companies changing their minds about MSRP evaluation.

[astral haven]

You didn't get it for msrp

[ashen spindle]

yes I got it for UVP

[astral haven]

You got it for the German pricing

[reef patrol]

...which we refer to as MSRP

Us normal folk.

[astral haven]

Is Nvidia a German company

[reef patrol]

They could be martian for all we care. Doesn't change the fact that retailers and consumers alike use "MSRP" synonymously with the listed minimum price possible

[astral haven]

Look you don't have to like that Nvidia doesn't officially launch products in your country it's just how it is

They sell them sure but that's not msrp

That's the actual price of the product

[ashen spindle]

so till now on discord, on reddit and on twitter, this is the first time anyone did not know what I mean with it

so I don't think I'm writing it in a way people dont understand

[reef patrol]

Look - you don't have to like that your narrow definition of MSRP is not shared by others. That's just how it is.

Enjoy feeling the need to correct literally everyone, ever that THEY DIDNT GET IT AT MSRP

[astral haven]

If you can't argue that the definition of the word is wrong then you have internalized my point wether you like it or not :P

[astral haven]

Anyone outside of your country will think of a different number...
How is that in any way useful?

Were you just trying to brag?

Cause if so then 👍

[ashen spindle]

not really they all assume msrp = the price set by the manufacturer, most dont even know what the conversion is

I sold all of them with 0 wins to friends so no not even bragging

[reef patrol]

Language evolves. If you're the only one who thinks a definition works a certain way, you're left behind my dude.

I'll be sure to tell everyone - no no that's not MSRP. That's YOUR MSRP

That'll work well.

[astral haven]

Ooh boy you aren't gonna wanna hear about how technical terms exist

[reef patrol]

This is VAT/Sales tax all over again. No one cares if they're technically wrong. It's literally what everyone calls it.

Your industry elitism doesn't work on a consumer market.

[astral haven]

Intentionally being wrong is something to avoid...

And if you think otherwise then so be it

[reef patrol]

Intentionally trying to correct the majority because your petty and elitist is even worse.

Good talk. Off to bed for real this time. God it's late.

[astral haven]

So the earth was actually flat until the late 1800s when the majority of people learned otherwise?

[ashen spindle]

I mean I agree there as I don't call ddr4800 4800mhz for example, but people know what is meant with it, and if I tell someone whos looking a product "no this is wrong, it's GT/s not mhz" because that confuses people more than it helps being correct at that time

the same way more people will be confused "german msrp? wtf is that"

[astral haven]

That's why you say the actual amount you paid...

[crisp granite]

FFS, I go off to eat some food and you guys are still at it?

[reef patrol]

That literally was never the case. I see you've been sipping that 1800s propaganda about how dumb people were in the olden days.

[ashen spindle]

but if I say I paid 719€ that doesnt tell anyone who only knows the US price if that was MSRP, RRP or scalped for 50%?

[astral haven]

That helps the European you were trying to help

[ashen spindle]

should I now expect to look up conversion when its not needed to check that?

[astral haven]

And the us folks would be able to look it up

Ooh boy

The European pricing isn't MSRP

[ashen spindle]

or I just say msrp and everyone knows "the intended sales price"

[reef patrol]

https://c.tenor.com/XYlNF4wF_9cAAAAM/here-we.gif

[ashen spindle]

and 719€ is the intended sales price for a rtx 3080 here

[reef patrol]

suggested

[astral haven]

Yes but that is entirely useless without the following statement

[reef patrol]

Let's make sure we use correct terms.

[astral haven]

Intended isn't wrong
Nvidia intends to sell it for that price in germany

[reef patrol]

Nvidia doesn't sell cards. Retailers do.

[astral haven]

There are terms with definitions and the rest is what it is

[reef patrol]

Outside of their little webshop of course which most can't access.

[astral haven]

Actually that was incorrect
They sold 3080 and 3090 until their webshop got hacked

[ashen spindle]

well the FE cards are sold for the cost they would've been on their website

thats the whole point

that you can get them for UVP bc retailers arent allowed to scalp that

[astral haven]

Yep
That's why you saying the actual price or saying "the German msrp which is 719€" is fine
"German msrp" is like 3200mhz
Technically incorrect but as long as you follow up with the useful information it's fine

That's not msrp

[ashen spindle]

yes but thats what everyone uses the term msrp for

[astral haven]

Those are prices

[ashen spindle]

and it says 700€ which is accurate becuase in the launch window, tax was lowered to 16% iirc during corona

[astral haven]

Ye

But that's not "The MSRP"

[ashen spindle]

but its how everyone uses the term

and unlike the ddr4 thing, the correct term confuses people more

[astral haven]

No?

MSRP means price the manufacturer officially stated which happens to be $699

You meant 719€

[ashen spindle]

the literally name of that acronym disagrees with you

[astral haven]

Noone would be confused by 719€

[astral haven]

Where

That's not the MSRP my guy locke

[ashen spindle]

no thats from tax being included in € prices and the tax happens to be about the same as dollar to euro conversion

thats why it often seems that way

[astral haven]

The problem was quintosh said "I bought 4 3080/ti for msrp"

And didn't specify where or what price

I asked to clarify and mansen started arguing that MSRP isn't official

[ashen spindle]

ok seriously, if you read msrp, do you think I dont mean local msrp?

[astral haven]

If you don't say local then you don't mean local?

I know a guy who got a 3070 for MSRP even tho they are in canada

[ashen spindle]

because who in their right mind goes to the conclusion "oh this guy said msrp so he probably happend to have his local shop sell it for the msrp of another country"

[astral haven]

While this is confusing it's entirely accurate

[ashen spindle]

dont you think its more likely I would say "lol I happend to get it at the US listing price even though im in germany"

instead of assuming thats the regular way people use msrp?

[astral haven]

If you say MSRP and don't provide any qualifiers there's only 1 default msrp

[ashen spindle]

yes and why would you not assume local msrp

[astral haven]

You didn't state you were in Germany

[ashen spindle]

but it didn't matter in this case???

the talk was not "you cany buy it for 699 but I did it"

[astral haven]

?

[ashen spindle]

when the talk is about how the cards are 500 above what he wanted to pay maximum

and that already includes like 400 premium

[astral haven]

The MSRP of the card is $699

[ashen spindle]

I dont think it matters if I get it for 700 or 720 and then say "yes you can get it for cheaper"

[astral haven]

I said MSRP is impossible in europe

And you said it was

[ashen spindle]

because by literally any definiton of msrp, this is msrp

[astral haven]

Except by the official one

[ashen spindle]

defined where

[astral haven]

Nah the European price has increased

[astral haven]

By Nvidia on launch day

[ashen spindle]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manufacturers-suggested-retail-price-msrp.asp wherever you look, this would imply 719 is by their definition a msrp price

[astral haven]

This is an official Nvidia slide

[ashen spindle]

and this is the official nvidia website

where they show msrp prices

[astral haven]

You know full well 719€ is not 699 usd

[ashen spindle]

I also know if I ask anyone what the price is called they show there, they would call it MSRP

[astral haven]

Ok and people would call 3600 ddr4 3600mhz

It's not useless information but it's incorrect

Just say the price

The price is the price

[ashen spindle]

back to the topic I dont think it makes sense having numbers that people have to convert to their currency to understand

[astral haven]

Vat went up and since it's an import the price went up

[ashen spindle]

vat went back, it was reduced

[astral haven]

What?

Oh

Yea

[ashen spindle]

it was lowered, then raised back

[astral haven]

That's like saying 1 mile

If it's a mile you can't just say it's 1km

Because it's not

A conversion needs to take place

[ashen spindle]

exactly so leave the value out and have a relative thing they know

I dont say 100C but say the temperature water boils

I dont say 719€ but msrp

[astral haven]

But that's like saying my room is 70c

That's incorrect

My room is 70 degrees Fahrenheit

Actually no it's like 78

There are things that need translation my guy

[ashen spindle]

yeah or I use a common reference point that everyone knows in their system

so no translation needed

[astral haven]

What you think of as MSRP changes by region

[astral haven]

So how could that be a common reference point

Quin didn't say "MSRP in Germany"

[astral haven]

Quin said

[ashen spindle]

bc people know what the card costs for their region?

[astral haven]

719 eur is not something that can be interpreted any different way

Anyone here happen to have the app that lets you see the wooting analog value of all keyboard keys?

Link on wooting.io is dead

[tropic peak]

I'm wondering if Team Wooting is going to use another switch with a smaller actuation point. Like the Steel Series Apex pro switches @ 0.4mm.

[neat oriole]

You can already make the lekker actuate at 0.1mm

I’m not sure what you’re looking for

The moon is 3 meters further, your keys actuate

The gravitational pull of the moon. Whenever it’s low tide, your keys actuate on their own.

[true quest]

takes me back

[old marlin]

IBP subbrand now has a mini itx casehttps://hyte.com/revolt-3/

with an alice clone in the product images

[old marlin]

lol

I approve of the keebs in their marketing

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107274.0

[ashen spindle]

https://videocardz.com/newz/alleged-european-pricing-of-intel-12th-gen-core-alder-lake-s-series-leaks-out

now thats what I call hybrid design, premium price, shit value

[reef patrol]

But... What's the REAL - MSRP

https://tenor.com/view/cat-parkour-run-sprint-wall-gif-3574286

[fair gull]

cough

[ashen spindle]

thats the non vat price right?

[fair gull]

yes

but there you have a distribution price

[old marlin]

dunno how much margin they usually take

[fair gull]

most distrib recommend 20percent

[old marlin]

but I assume they will be like 650€ retail or some shit

ok

so more like

750

[fair gull]

i can tell u the recommended margin exactly

[old marlin]

so 850

including vat

[fair gull]

they recommend 4% atm altho seeing how the other percentages dont add up in terms of revenue percentage etc this is prob a placeholder

wait no they add up

might actually be a 4percent margin they recommend

so 730.184

but ya there you have confirmed prices

[ashen spindle]

october 27th is an intel even so expectation is that is either release or annnouncement (or both)

[fair gull]

so how many we orderin boys

[old marlin]

7

[fair gull]

why that exact number

[crimson wigeon]

9

[wheat plume]

6

[fair gull]

is this the lost numbers or smth

[vapid zodiac]

12

[tropic peak]

How? with Wootility? I saw a vid review from ShortCircuit using the software and it only shows the actuation point to be at 1.5 mm. The vid starts around at the 5:00 https://youtu.be/cbV3Tfso-R4?t=301.

[vapid zodiac]

that video is scuffed to all hell

[neat oriole]

The guy unboxing it didn’t read the QuickStart guide that was printed at the bottom of the box and as a result ran the wootility for the 3 year old boards

[fair gull]

they used the wrong wootility

[halcyon moss]

they used the wrong software version!

[fair gull]

tmw the lurkers come running

[halcyon moss]

lol, all at once

[neat oriole]

There’s a pinned comment under the video that points this out

[tropic peak]

yep fair enough

should've deleted this vid

[halcyon moss]

well.. yesn't

it was not done correctly, but its still advertising

:p

[tropic peak]

now I'm confident in getting Wooting 2 HE TKL

[halcyon moss]

well.. you might have to wait a while.. first the 60% needs to be released

[tropic peak]

yep I can wait while earning some money

[fair gull]

i cant

[reef patrol]

Well to be fair we don't know if they add a TKL HE at some point 😄

[fair gull]

pretty sure some founder said they wanted to get a tkl back into the shop

and that they didnt expect it to sell out of stock this quickly

[reef patrol]

I don't see why they wouldn't - eventually. But given they're a tiny company having more than one board revision on the design table is... optimistic 😄

I figure once the HE and 60 are in stock and the production's running smooth, they can devote time to doing a third PCB.

[fair gull]

ye same on that

i guesstimate end 2022 or mid 2023 for tkl

depends on how its designed

[halcyon moss]

just take a chainsaw to the fullsized version

[reef patrol]

Redesign the fullsized so you can SNAP the numpad off.

Sell the spare numpads seperately.

[halcyon moss]

add a microcontroller somewhere 🙂

[wheat plume]

Honestly, a detachable numpad would be a great idea

[fair gull]

slots?

[neat oriole]

Locke wants to be a founder and have a mark on the PCB

[fair gull]

when was the date

of like store page

i swear i had a pretty exact date

[young pecan]

Literally this.

Idk how it's so confusing. If you need a 60% to go, why not design a board with a detachable numpad and F row?

Then you can pick and choose functionality and not be restricted.

[wheat plume]

I think a large problem is how to make it look good... the right side of the board would need to accomodate whatever linking mechanism it has

[young pecan]

It's not like this would even remotely class as revolutionary technology, we just have contact pads.

[earnest jay]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/12/22227299/asus-rog-claymore-ii-mechanical-keyboard-gaming-gladius-iii-wireless-mouse

It's something.

[wheat plume]

ooo

oo, magnets

[young pecan]

Yep.

Magnets and contact pads.

Maybe a little stabilizer as well.

[wheat plume]

thats neat, but the media keys or on the numpad s id have it always attached
or would have it always attached if m mouse didnt handle the media keys for me

[old marlin]

why not just an external numpad

is a cable too much clutter?

[young pecan]

Literally braindead, I swear.

[reef patrol]

It sneaks off.

Gotta magnet that bitch. 😄

[old marlin]

true

[young pecan]

Idk how this is so hard for you, @old marlin.

[old marlin]

oh also

rog claymore 2 is 250-300€

[young pecan]

Why not external numpad? Because not everyone likes carrying around 12 devices in their laptop bag.

[earnest jay]

Early adoptor's tax.

[old marlin]

and uses asus proprietary switches

[old marlin]

their previous gen had it

and detachable numpads have been around for ages

[earnest jay]

https://media.giphy.com/media/KYNywoibU1PQ4/giphy.gif

[old marlin]

like if you want a detachable numpad the mountain everest would be the thing I would go for

stil a badly priced board

[earnest jay]

Than I have no clue why'd be so expensive.

[old marlin]

but at least you can get a replacement keycaps if one inevitably breaks

[young pecan]

It's expensive due to lack of choice.

[old marlin]

https://mountain.gg/keyboards/everest-max/

[young pecan]

Were they more common they'd be cheaper.

Y'know, like literally everything works.

[old marlin]

is 260 btw

you can save 30€ by not getting that dial on top

as well as the wristrest

but at that point you might as well get the full package ig

ah

msrp is 250

thanks caseking

[young pecan]

Wooting 60% with attachable F row, Function Keys, Numpad.

Literally this.

[old marlin]

attachable f-row

[wheat plume]

o.o interesting

[young pecan]

You're such a joker.

It's hilarious, ngl.

[old marlin]

why not just 70%

and attachable numpad and arrow keys

[young pecan]

Because some utter brainlets will be crying about not having a 60%.

[old marlin]

well

there is a 60%

[young pecan]

Y'know, because we need to have a 60% for reasons I guess.

[old marlin]

go buy it instead

[young pecan]

There's always a goddamn brainlet.

[old marlin]

dunno how many of those sold btw

Ganss ALT71

not a lot I imagine

[halcyon moss]

that looks like a very thick board

[old marlin]

250 USD

[young pecan]

I can almost guarantee you that'd be functionally better than every 60% that exists.

90% sure nobody has made a good enough profile to compete with that.

[old marlin]

the thing is

I could just get an external numpad

I never need dedicated f-row

I don't play MMOs

[halcyon moss]

i use them quite a lot when programming actually

[old marlin]

yea I can still use them

but I don't need to use them enough to need them as dedicated keys

[halcyon moss]

hm, i see. its also nice to ahve them double as media keys

[old marlin]

I have separate media keys

use fn+ arrow keys at home

[halcyon moss]

not on your wooting

[old marlin]

I don't use a wooting atm

I don't own a wooting atm

gave my two to a friend

[halcyon moss]

because thats profile switching hehe

[old marlin]

who got a desktop

granted I rarely use media keys

what is that

uhh

ok

[old marlin]

I hate raspberry pis

just don't use sd cards as boot drives

[wheat plume]

Go buy the m.2 expansion card then

use ssd for booting

[reef patrol]

Or an external usb xD

[wheat plume]

Yes

[old marlin]

USB sticks have the same problems

SSDs are not as easy to set up as they should be

you need to first install to an SD card then transfer

cause reasons

[reef patrol]

Oh no. STEPS.

On a LINUX piece of hardware.

[wheat plume]

Linux and ARM!

[crimson wigeon]

Just install Windows on it then ecks dee

[old marlin]

still doesn't always work

[wheat plume]

yes and so much lag you cant do shit

[reef patrol]

Never had USB or HD not work.

[old marlin]

it ONLY works with their raspberry pi os GUI shit

you can't transfer otherwise from what I have seen

[wheat plume]

other Pi OSs cant use anything but SD card to boot?!

[reef patrol]

Here's an idea. Buy a Pi like with built in M.2 if you have such an issue with SD 😄

[old marlin]

well they probably can

[old marlin]

exists

costs 3 times as much

[wheat plume]

Yes but muh ssd

[old marlin]

rock pi

[reef patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/shipit-gif-4770652

[old marlin]

has an m.2 slot on the bottom

but still needs a riser etc

like this

you can do something similar with a pi

but only with compute modules

[old marlin]

literally anything that doesn't perish after 3 months would be fine

SD cards are not made as boot devices

they fry themselves

[reef patrol]

Too bad. It's what everyone uses if not CF.

Which is IDE xD

[old marlin]

CF

on a pi

[reef patrol]

On smol module PCs 😛

[old marlin]

ah

[reef patrol]

Not PI specifically xD

[old marlin]

I don't even care much about speeds

[reef patrol]

Go pester the PI Foundation about making M.2 the standard going forward. Or making non-SD booting easier xD

[old marlin]

would require them to abandon a formfactor

not like there is much intercompatability that would require them to not change it

shields would still work the same

would just need to be a bit longer

ah pine64 is also m.2

literally just the raspberry pi foundation

that everyone buys because of software support

that use the shittiest hardware

[reef patrol]

[fair gull]

never had issues with pis and sd cards

[reef patrol]

If you unplug them, they have a very real chance of getting fucked.

The PI that is.

[crimson wigeon]

Don't do that then

[old marlin]

Not even the problem

SD cards are not made for a lot of file transfers

[reef patrol]

Kind of hard to avoid in a lot of scenarios.

[old marlin]

If you throw light read and write at them over a long period they die quickly

Hell they even survived the blackout we had a month ago

[reef patrol]

Photographers would like a word my dude.

[old marlin]

Yea they write how much a month

Also bigger card usually means holds longer

[reef patrol]

I'm hearing a lot of goalposting 😄

[old marlin]

Since they rarely overwrite the same lhysical memory

[old marlin]

Still no good solution

[reef patrol]

We'll just have to wait for SD card sized M.2s xD

[old marlin]

Doesn't have to be m.2

Would just be a convenient for factor

[reef patrol]

It needs to be a consumer popular format to be recognized and adopted.

[old marlin]

yae obv

not asking for raspberry pi storage containers

but with SD cards there is little a company can do to improve it

[fair gull]

[young pecan]

Cursed.

J want one.

[pale sigil]

So that's why it can feel choppy sometimes

[shadow minnow]

Why is UK so behind with mobile data. 3g has 2g speeds, and 4g is slower, and in some places like where I am even slower than 2g would normally be. In Slovakia LTE wherever it was was lot faster, and even 3g was quite fast.

[wheat plume]

4G in Ireland is like that too

even with LTE+

[ashen spindle]

just be closer to the tower

[wheat plume]

nah

thats what 5G wants

[ashen spindle]

no that's what anything wants?

any signal gets better if you are closer to the source

[wheat plume]

Especiallyl 5G

[ashen spindle]

Yes but the same still applies to 4g

[shadow minnow]

Sure but even with 1 bar LTE used to be quite fast for me. Now with 4 bars it’s like 1.5-3mbps

[fair gull]

tmw

germany doesnt have 3g anymore

and 5g is barely out in big cities

welp

i just saw the map

5g works everywhere but our backyard lands

[shadow minnow]

Tbh don’t get why to disable 3g. The speeds in Slovakia are great even on 3g, you can do anything you want basically. Not a lot of 5G here, but LTE has good coverage and is fast too

Even though I had smaller carrier it started rolling out 5G in some places but for some reason didn’t add my phone to supported devices.
UK carrier allows me to set up 5G stuff but it should not work on 5G

[fair gull]

they get rid of 3g antennas for 5g

[crimson wigeon]

Yeah why? Even here they seem to still be running old 2G stuff.. maybe I should dig up some old phone and get it connected for shits and giggles

[fair gull]

2g is used mainly as a very reliable fallback

[shadow minnow]

In Slovakia 2g still exists but for some reason it has 0mb download in most places, used to be lot better, even though not possible to like Watch yt video on 2g. 3g however was quite good. And then LTE.

[fair gull]

also psure 2g has gsm and gprs in it

aka telephone

as in the antennas basically put out 2g/gsm/gprs/edge

[empty wren]

HSPA HSPA+

[fair gull]

thats 3g

[empty wren]

3G going out of commission anyways

[shadow minnow]

Yeah for some reason. Even though LTE does not have good coverage outside villages, especially on roads…

[empty wren]

If you get lte signal you got coverage

If you got low speeds: obstructions and distance plus a hint of congestion

[shadow minnow]

Even with bad signal LTE used to be fast for me.
Now no matter the signal 4G in UK just sucks.

[empty wren]

2G unlimited data

[fair gull]

2g is just a really efficient and well covering thing

look at most providers coverage maps

2g goes literally everywhere

[shadow minnow]

2g is too slow. Imo could replace it with sth like 3g LTE (long range) for fallback so it’s fast enough too.

[fair gull]

3g is too power hungry

[empty wren]

2g is fine for calls and sms

[fair gull]

ya

[shadow minnow]

Nope, not everywhere, even some roads and stuff

[empty wren]

Not good enough for downloading Apex legends when watching YouTube how to video

[fair gull]

wha

how does ur country not have 2g coverage

how do u make calls

landlines?

[shadow minnow]

Even for just video not good enough.

[empty wren]

I use wifi for that and there a ton of wifi hotspots these days in America

[shadow minnow]

It does, just there are few smaller spots that don’t. But most places have 3g coverage, LTE is in most villages and all cities, 5G being quite rare.

[fair gull]

if it has 3g coverage it has 2g coverage aswell

[shadow minnow]

Again, still not an option for stuff like traveling, especially when you travel often to school/work by bus or train.

[shadow minnow]

Yeah, but there are spots with neither

[empty wren]

Locke

Xfinity routers

Give strangers access

Just through a click of a button

[fair gull]

gives a new meaning to stranger danger

[empty wren]

Xfinity literally invites strangers to use it, only their router and their network has this feature

[fair gull]

glad idk who that is

[empty wren]

https://c.tenor.com/YD39qu2MAhgAAAAM/oakland-athletics-oakland.gif

[shadow minnow]

Discord servers getting raided with more bots than there are people…

[pale sigil]

tis a shame really

[empty wren]

As silly as this sounds petition again for barrier to unlock server from partially or not at all open

Could limit bot traffic

Could be a simple verify phone number or something else, by the way phone number can be removed after that

[crisp granite]

better idea

[shadow minnow]

Wootbot is quite good against bots

[crisp granite]

we make the server private but keep the open join link on the wooting server and in the emails

[empty wren]

That could also work

[crisp granite]

that way someone would have to purposefully inject their bot into our server

prevents pretty much every attack

[empty wren]

Even better idea

[shadow minnow]

Don’t think it’s needed yet tbh, who knows however if bots get even more advanced.