🔌│tech

[crisp granite]

give em one more chance

if they fuck up then

don't bother

but don't kill them, because that's just fucked

[astral haven]

Have you ever heard of "predatory lending"

[cursive summit]

@pale sigil Can we get these 2 leave tech talk and move to #🐸│memes

[fickle ore]

guys, can't you type in #politics

[ashen spindle]

can we maybe keep the topics at least somewhat related to technology lol

[cursive summit]

Wait we have #politics?

[fickle ore]

yea

[crisp granite]

a brilliant way to just take everything you've ever owned?

[fickle ore]

its only available for OG members like me

[astral haven]

Look what I got

[cursive summit]

I somehow doubt your claim

[astral haven]

Enough politics look at the pretty infiniband

[pale sigil]

ngl

im tempted to get this now

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT250P2SSD8-250GB-Internal-2100/dp/B089DNM8LR?t

[astral haven]

No

[pale sigil]

for game storage

btw

before you lose it

[crisp granite]

enough politics, we need a channel to post pics of our food

because that's somehow fashionable

[pale sigil]

basically what this is

[fickle ore]

@ashen spindle I meant all the options on that link btw, not only the budget ones, any of those worth with the prime discounts? 980 pro 1tb at 142€ not bad..

[cursive summit]

I mean you could get that, but why not get something superior instead

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-Cache/dp/B07H2RR55Q/ref=sr_1_21?dchild=1&keywords=SSHD&qid=1624300380&s=computers&sr=1-21

An SSHD

[ashen spindle]

ah havent looked at more, will do in a minute

[cursive summit]

Twice the storage

[crisp granite]

no

those are just stupid

[pale sigil]

i have storage

in my NAS

i dont want ancient tech in my pc

[crisp granite]

for the price, better to just get an SSD

[cursive summit]

Like I haven't seen any benchmarks

But I'm pretty sure SSHDs are amazing

[astral haven]

Look at the p5

[cursive summit]

Price/TB is great

[fickle ore]

@ashen spindle np, not gonna get the budget cheap one (crucial) anyway hehe 😉 dont have good experience with them either

[astral haven]

They are horrifically bad vex

[pale sigil]

when i made this build i removed all HDDs i had (4tbs)

xD

[cursive summit]

HDD =/= SSHD though

[pale sigil]

i decided i wanted 2 nvme drives only

[astral haven]

That is incorrect

[cursive summit]

How is that bad if Intel's Optane virtually added cache to normal HDDs

And Optane is cool

[pale sigil]

@prisma crag same

its a good deal

[astral haven]

Optane +hdd isn't the same as sshd

[cursive summit]

Same result?

[ashen spindle]

optane is cool, but only one of the 3 things they all brand under optane

[astral haven]

Not at all

Nah all 3 are very cool just for different folks

[cursive summit]

The original Optane

[astral haven]

Optane memory is great for moron consumers who just buy the biggest number for storage
Optane ssds are insane no matter who you talk to
And dcpmms are insane for anyone with a database

[ashen spindle]

yeah out of that list it seems like P5 is the only one worth looking at, but make sure you can even get the deal and dont have to put tarrifs onto it since its amazon uk lol

[cursive summit]

Why'd you buy a normal HDD when instead you can get a hybrid drive

Price isn't all that bad on the hybrids, plenty of storage and decent enough speed

[astral haven]

Because the hybrid drives are terrible

[cursive summit]

You aren't listing why though

[pale sigil]

SSHDs are still a thing?

[cursive summit]

Always have been

[astral haven]

They are slower than any helium drive

[crisp granite]

because HDDs are cheaper and come in larger sizes, and considering they're only suitable for mass storage, I don't see a point in tiny drives with those

[astral haven]

I made the mistake of buying two

[crisp granite]

oh

[pale sigil]

why the fuck would you get one

honestly

[crisp granite]

and carmonben says they suck

[cursive summit]

Cheaper than SSDs?

[astral haven]

Got slaughtered by the cheaper exos drives...

[pale sigil]

But still just as poo

[cursive summit]

Yeah at least you are saving money AND getting more storage space

[crisp granite]

unimportant when they're more expensive than hard drives and perform just like them or worse

[astral haven]

The problem is that the hybrid drives use horrid hdds as platforms

Actual bottom tier garbage

[cursive summit]

1TB SSD = 2TB hybrid basically when it comes to price

[pale sigil]

Well l

Ye

But

[crisp granite]

that performs like a hard drive

[astral haven]

^

[crisp granite]

and a pretty bad one at that

[pale sigil]

Imagine playing games on a HDD in 2021

[astral haven]

Sometimes worse than a standard hdd

[cursive summit]

Ain't the whole point of a hybrid is that it's accelerated by solid state memory?

[crisp granite]

most AAA games are recommending ssds now

so yeah

that must be painful for the gamers still using spinning rust

[astral haven]

Everything is perfect in theory lmao

In reality it's garbo

[pale sigil]

most of the games i play are effected significantly running on a HDD

Christ even a game like Warframe is painful on a HDD

[cursive summit]

HDDs are far slower than hybrids though

[crisp granite]

the difference between SSDs and HDDs is night and day...just for the loading screens and reducing texture pop in

well worth the price

[astral haven]

Not in reality

[cursive summit]

That

Is not bad

It's not great but ain't bad

[astral haven]

Dude

I'm talking about real world performance

[crisp granite]

compared to loading a game off of a standard HDD, it's on par

so why spend the extra dough for a worse product (in terms of durability, price to performance)?

[astral haven]

The nand doesn't act as a write cache because otherwise it would fail incredibly quickly
And because it's too small it's terrible as a read cache

[cursive summit]

What if you don't need and SSD, and instead want to cram everything into one cheap, big hard drive that's fast

[crisp granite]

that's stupid

small SSDs are dirt cheap, throw OS on that and you're golden

[cursive summit]

But it's not?

128GBs ain't anything

[astral haven]

I compared a raid 0 of sshds to a single 5tb highish end drive and the high end drive slaughtered the raid 0 in every test I could think of besides file copy

[crisp granite]

enough for OS and key programs

[cursive summit]

Yeah but it's still, too small

[crisp granite]

then have a 1 or 2 tb hard drive for mass storage

good for an office PC

[cursive summit]

HDDs are slow though

[astral haven]

128gb ssd + 2tb hdd is the same price as a hybrid, and you can run rst with that which performs significantly better than sshds do

[crisp granite]

which is the only real use I see for hard drives other than mass storage

I personally will have 4 (2tb atm) terrabytes of pure SSD and not a single byte of spinning rust storage in my PC, just because HDDs don't suit my purposes

[cursive summit]

Yeah not everyone is as rich as you

[crisp granite]

if I had a shitload of files I'd need to keep a hold of, I'd have a hard drive for that and that alone

[cursive summit]

How tf do you even get money Doge

You can afford some expensive shit

He doesn't work to my knowledge

[astral haven]

I have a TB of optane, about 16tb of nand, and 24tb of rust

[crisp granite]

worked a job before, quit when covid rolled around but spent so little of it that I have money for when I need it

my entire PC was to replace my laptop when it crapped out

cost me just as much as the laptop I was looking at to replace it

and it also replaced my old xbox, so...saving money compared to a new laptop and Xbox series X

[fickle ore]

Also, dafuq, didn't read yet but title was interesting: https://www.techspot.com/news/90095-connecting-wd-black-sn850-ssd-x570-chipset-kills.html

[astral haven]

Oh my god I have 1.5tb of optane lol

[fickle ore]

Sell me 500gb

[astral haven]

This doesn't surprise anyone

[cursive summit]

https://www.techradar.com/news/nvidia-dlss-22-has-already-been-silently-released-in-rainbow-six-siege

I heard of this

I thought it was posted before, but alas, searches find nothing

[ashen spindle]

sounds like some sort of issues that causes the drive to be read as pcie3.0

would make most sense

[astral haven]

I'll sell you my 480gb for 480 and I'll pay shipping to the continental us

[cursive summit]

https://technosports.co.in/2021/06/20/latest-leak-razer-blade-14-with-all-amd-ryzen-9-5900hx-rx-6600m-spotted/

[astral haven]

But otherwise nah I want my 3 way raid 0 of optane

The extra space is caching for my weaker drives

[fickle ore]

@ashen spindle hmm yeah, gen 3.0 and according to them 10% less perf from via chipset vs direct cpu lane. Hm. Wonder if that's also 10% for usb device latency ;b

[cursive summit]

They are quite good

Blade Stealths I heard were great

The normal ones, idk

[ashen spindle]

eh doubt it, as usb hasn't changed that recently

[astral haven]

I mean there are always a few USB ports direct attached to the CPU so why not use them

[fickle ore]

@astral haven I am ofcourse, for the mouse. Only one controller on the cpu though. High freq device (1-8khz) should be separated on their own controllers for optimal performance

Just wondering if it's around the same ballbark latency (reduction) wise for the USB, as it's basically similar paths

[astral haven]

The CPU has 2 physical controllers if only 1 logical

I mean some do

Just internal connectors

[ashen spindle]

[fickle ore]

@astral haven Idk about that, by default only one is exposed to me. May need to use internal connectors for the 2nd to show up. dunno.

[astral haven]

Mine has dual 3.0 and dual 2.0

[ashen spindle]

my god at first I thought you found some forbidden 2xUsb to DVI or similar black magic

lol

[astral haven]

About what
The CPU physically has 2 controllers under the same logical controller

[ashen spindle]

I mean enjoy paying double than mine for less IO if you just care about IO, idk, always been the case that different categories exist for what they put on boards

no I mean msrp for your board is about twice that of mine lol

[astral haven]

Sad included io but for under $200 it's fine

[ashen spindle]

sure, but thats because people buy x570 when 90% of them dont even need anything that b550 doesnt offer

vast majority of people wont need pcie4 from the chipset

[astral haven]

I need 8 lanes of gen 3

[crisp granite]

I need enough PCI lanes to support 2 M.2s and a single full fat 16x gpu slot

my B450 mobo supports it all

and I don't think gamers need more than that tbh

[ashen spindle]

ah, my bad, it showed me the wrong price for the prime, I thought it was closer to 300€

then the aorus pro is not half price but more like 10 bucks less

[vapid zodiac]

i have the x570 prime, is gud

good enough vrms for 3900x and not had any issues ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ashen spindle]

literally in the post above that told you I was looking at the wrong price...

[pale sigil]

pcie gen 3 will work with 2 right

for m2

[ashen spindle]

what you mean yes, how you word it, no

[astral haven]

And gen 2 platforms usually can't boot from nvme

Some can tho

[pale sigil]

@ashen spindlehttps://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089DNM8LR/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

would you say this is reliable just for games

[ashen spindle]

sure

[reef patrol]

Yep.

[astral haven]

Get a p5 please

It's also on sale

[ashen spindle]

for 30$ more though

[astral haven]

Yes but at least it's using a proper controller

[pale sigil]

ye but am i going to actually see a difference

lol

[astral haven]

Dramless without hmb is just asking for bad performance

It will often act slower than a decent sata ssd

[pale sigil]

67 quid vs 97

lol

[ashen spindle]

I'm with the mindset if you're looking at the cheapest possible option its unlikely one is lookingfor proper performance of it and it'll be good enough if it has normal sata speeds all the time

[astral haven]

It's slower than sata sometimes...

[ashen spindle]

but is the same true for the 1tb model? idk if they all scale the same or if it works a bit better there

also not like you can find sata ssds for cheaper either

[astral haven]

Read doesn't change with size

Yes but intentionally buying a dramless drive just hurts

Also those are comparisons vs other 500gb drives so it's still a fair comparison

[pale sigil]

mate

as long as its better or if not on par with a normal sata ssd

i dont care

[astral haven]

Like if this were for idk storing huge movie files or something that only cares about sequential read speeds then whatever, but this is for games...
Games are qd8 random

Its worse than sata...

At least normal sata

[ashen spindle]

are you even reading what was written just now

[astral haven]

The mx500 is a sata drive

[pale sigil]

no

also im after m2 size

[ashen spindle]

if the p2 is the cheapest one you can find I'd still take it as it's good enough imo

[astral haven]

Like it's technically worth it for that price since it is significantly cheaper than sata dram drives

But intentionally buying a garbage product just because it is cheap is a choice for sure

[ashen spindle]

but unless you really need space right now it's not as amazing a deal to just get it for future proof

[pale sigil]

67 quid is the cheapest nvme afaik atm

hmm

ok

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT1000P5SSD8-Internal-Drive-up-2280SS/dp/B087QRVVVH/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3N87RPWSQZDBL&dchild=1&keywords=p5+m.2&qid=1624307050&s=computers&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&sprefix=p5+%2Ccomputers%2C159&sr=1-4

is this much of a deal

[astral haven]

It's a close to flagship 3.0 drive

[pale sigil]

meant the price more than anything

xD

no

[ashen spindle]

idk, go to one of the sites that track prices over time and see if its a good deal or not

[pale sigil]

no 2.5 or hdds

xD

lowest price atm

average £128.35

no 2.5

[astral haven]

It's generally good if your motherboard has a heatsink
It's a bit higher power than the average (3.0) nvme

[pale sigil]

xD

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-MX500-CT1000MX500SSD1-NAND-Internal/dp/B003J5JB12/?th=1

this is also kinda tempting ngl

[astral haven]

Youve seen mine before right

[ashen spindle]

the cheaper way is to see if you actually need everything you have installed btw

[astral haven]

^

[pale sigil]

tbh quinntosh

yes

[astral haven]

I can't say that tho

I have zero right

[pale sigil]

im constantly trying to clean up

most of what i play are 100gb+ ;-;

[astral haven]

Wait wtf 2tb for 140????

Gettit

[pale sigil]

ik

its pretty cheap

but 2.5" -_-

[astral haven]

Yea well

It's better than the p2 lol

[ashen spindle]

pretty sure mx500 was the one where older models needed a firmware update to work after 2.5k hours runtime or so

was quite annoying to figure that out lol

[astral haven]

Yea
The new revisions tho are WD blue tier for slightly cheaper

[pale sigil]

idk 67 quid vs 140 is quite big

in terms of why i was tempted with the p2

since it was so cheap

then again

the 1tb of this ssd is also 67

[crimson wigeon]

So get 2 and raid0 for SO FAST

[pale sigil]

xD

[astral haven]

If you have a need for no cables and a free nvme slot, the p2 isn't thaaaat bad

For that price

But like

Nvme slower than sata is disgraceful

[pale sigil]

im really tempted to get the 2tb

xD

[astral haven]

First check for micron 5100 pros on used sites near you

[ashen spindle]

or just get a 4tb when one is decently priced and be done for a while

[astral haven]

4tb usually is alot more spensive

[ashen spindle]

depends, sata/pcie3 variants for same price/gb as lower ones have been around for a while now

[astral haven]

Per gb

Nah

Mx500 doesn't exist in 4tb, WD blue in 4tb is over $100/gb

[ashen spindle]

I mean, depends if you are fine with QLC or not

[pale sigil]

nah

i dont think i will

[ashen spindle]

https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-Internes-Solid-State-MZ-77Q4T0BW/dp/B089QYSMJT

[pale sigil]

i was drawn to the 67 quid cos of how cheap it was

right now i cant justify spending 100+

[astral haven]

Qlc is dumb for too many reasons to count

[reef patrol]

SSD go BRR

[astral haven]

Not qlc

[ashen spindle]

oh wait, deal only for prime memebers, not applicable for me anyway lol

[astral haven]

A qlc ssd in some cases will be slower than a hdd

[chrome estuary]

so the amazon alexas are normally kinda sketch cause always on audio home assistant

[reef tundra]

ssd machine goes [silence.mp5]

[chrome estuary]

but i'm tempted to buy the fucking echo dot since it's only 25$

[crisp granite]

[crimson wigeon]

Yes.. let them always listen in...

[astral haven]

Yay pakidge

[chrome estuary]

i'll just unplug it when i'm done

[ashen spindle]

yeah because you totally wont get annoyed at doing that and stop it after a while

[chrome estuary]

yeah i'll probably forget to plug it back in

[reef tundra]

Dont forget to tell the chips how much cringe their naming is.

[chrome estuary]

and then all in all forget about it.

[pale sigil]

my friend is like just use the pay off in 5 months offer on amazon

but idk xd

[chrome estuary]

i did it for my 2tb SSD

paid like... 50$/m?

did it for dad's laptop at 250$/m

[ashen spindle]

look out for used server ssds in 2+tb on ebay if you want good quality for cost effective prices

[crisp granite]

as long as there's no interest attached and you don't have the money for it upfront, but still know you'll be able to pay it off

[chrome estuary]

i think it's a prime thing

[ashen spindle]

oh and stop playing shit games like cod that spam the disk with filesize

[pale sigil]

i dont play cod

[crisp granite]

bought a new SSD just for stalker 2

150gb install

man, bell better fucking lay some fibre before it launches or I'm gonna be in a really foul mood

[chrome estuary]

I wanna replace the two 1tb with ssds cause they're hard drives

[astral haven]

The micron 5100 pro is pog

[chrome estuary]

also i want some fucking fibre as well, i hate this 8mbps download shit.

[reef tundra]

Why would someone play cod when you got salmon?

[crisp granite]

I live in a big city and I get (admittedly pretty speedy internet) but still, too slow compared to other ISPs

[astral haven]

This was extremely awesome

The drives were also brand new

[chrome estuary]

i live out in the middle of dick sneeze nowhere

also gah the fucking CRG9 is on sale

it's so dumb but I want one.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71916r38cNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

look at this big dumb beautiful fucker

[crisp granite]

same

thing just has this sex appeal to it

[chrome estuary]

it's still 900$ tho

if it was on the amazon 5 month thing. I'd have one on it's way right now

[pale sigil]

;-;

i hate sales sometimes

[chrome estuary]

i've got a buddy that drives his with a 2070 super just fine

[crisp granite]

I'll just be gigabrain and wait till the G9 finally goes on sale for more than 25% off

[chrome estuary]

sure you're not gonna run everything in ultra high HDR 10bit perfection

[crisp granite]

because best buy always seems to have it for $500 less than normal pricing

[chrome estuary]

dude the 1080 can run mid-high 4k. A 2070 super can run something with far less pixels

[pale sigil]

prime day ends tomoz right

[chrome estuary]

well midhigh 4k at like 50fps depending on the game

also yes, 25 hours

[astral haven]

Wait is it the crg9 or the Odyssey g9
Odyssey g9 is pog crg9 is less pog

[pale sigil]

bleh ill think about it tomoz

[chrome estuary]

CRG9, not G9

[astral haven]

Rip

[chrome estuary]

I fucking wish the G9, that's what my dumbass friend has

I've got the G5 and the 1000R curve is really nice ngl

[astral haven]

240hz is crazy nice

The fast VA is just insane

[chrome estuary]

120/144 is fine enough for me.

i don't really notice all that much.

[reef tundra]

Fuck amazon

[crisp granite]

waiting for the G9 to dip below $1500 CAD, then me buy

[astral haven]

I got my g7 for pretty much full price

[chrome estuary]

holy shit the sandisk 1tb microsd (just UHS-1) is on sale for 132 USD

[cursive summit]

The only display I want rn is the Gigabyte 34" one

[crisp granite]

grrrr

the G9 is 2k

[reef tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/watch-your-mouth-watch-your-profanity-watch-it-gif-5600117

Then get an fpga?

[crisp granite]

G7 is 800 CAD

should I get it?

at that price?

[reef tundra]

Sad it isnt a G6

cant meme with that once song

[chrome estuary]

i haven't thought about G6 is so many years...

[cursive summit]

The one I want is this one

I can't think of any displays better than this

[reef tundra]

🎵 Like a g6, like a g6, 🎵

[cursive summit]

For that price

Big 1440p display with speakers and HDR10

Jiggybyte is sick

Basilisk Ultimate for that price is a good deal

Though G502 Hero for 38$??? A steal

[old marlin]

basilisk x hyperspeed is even better

35

G502 is more

[cursive summit]

Don't buy the Hyperspeed

[old marlin]

why not

[cursive summit]

It's fine, but it's not a G502

I had it

[old marlin]

[cursive summit]

Broke within 3 months

[chrome estuary]

i like my trackball mice

[reef tundra]

superhyperspeed then

[old marlin]

what makes it different

had both

[old marlin]

doubleclicks?

[cursive summit]

Multiclicks

[old marlin]

yea

[cursive summit]

Like, 5clicks

[old marlin]

razer fixed those

new switches

[reef tundra]

multi function

[old marlin]

something logitech still did not manage to do on the g502

same problem

same switch

[cursive summit]

I even tried to install new firmware

Did shit

[old marlin]

yea not a firmware problem

[cursive summit]

So I got a Viper Ultimate rn

Top end stuff

[old marlin]

is a physical problem

[reef tundra]

Maybe reinstalling fortnight?

[old marlin]

new switches are plated

[chrome estuary]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71XQdry%2BqZL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
ffs Netgear... this thing looks like a god damn star wars ship!

[old marlin]

G502 switches still omron 50Ms

[cursive summit]

With the amazon deals, I hate being broke

[old marlin]

prob 6

[cursive summit]

Iirc 8

[chrome estuary]

AX11000

wtf

what is all this shit

[cursive summit]

Oo a Wifi6e router?

[chrome estuary]

i don't even know what my router is

[cursive summit]

6e routers must cost like 300$

[chrome estuary]

it's not like it even matters to me since the fucking internet is 8mbps

[cursive summit]

Last I checked they cost a fortune

[reef tundra]

https://youtu.be/pb2lo5sOc6M

[chrome estuary]

this star wars router is like 420$ on sale

[cursive summit]

Thing is a fast af router can be used for also wireless data transfer

[chrome estuary]

also yes, 8 antennas

[cursive summit]

AX11000 is a technological marvel

[chrome estuary]

well i'm fairly certain dad's laptop and my m1 mba don't have w6

[reef tundra]

The sterling engine is a technological marvel

[chrome estuary]

well shit the m1 might

apple is weird about that shit

[cursive summit]

Did they announce anything on the M1 successors

[reef tundra]

Quite moving stuff it is

[chrome estuary]

no clue

[cursive summit]

Like they said M1 will be improved upon or something this year

[astral haven]

Nope

[chrome estuary]

unless they're releasing an m1x MBA, then i don't care

[cursive summit]

Also M2 or whatever should follow soon iirc

Like I heard they are going to improve on the M1 fast, and by a bunch

[reef tundra]

RISC-V or it cringe

[cursive summit]

CISC, RISC, whatever the fuck

All is cool

[chrome estuary]

I only got this laptop cause good scren, battery life, half way comfy keyboard, fucking fanless is amazing, and i really wanted to play with macos

[cursive summit]

I wish Windows was as good at multithreads as Apple is with their M1s

[reef tundra]

No, RISC-V is the cooler daniel

[cursive summit]

Also screw fanless

You are begging to melt your PC at that point

At least a single mini fan

[reef tundra]

Dont put your dick in the cd player

[cursive summit]

Like a 30mm fan? Is that too much to wish for

[chrome estuary]

the thing doesn't even get all that hot under full load from what i understand

iirc they're using the chassis as a massive heatsink but i could be remembering wrong

[astral haven]

I've done that several times now

Just having to press a button on the phone to do it makes it alot easier

[reef tundra]

[fickle ore]

source?

[astral haven]

Look at every single block diagram and has released

[reef tundra]

da linky?

[astral haven]

Here's my board for example

Here's a b350

Actually hunh
Wikichip shows each USB port being separate

https://en.wikichip.org/w/images/thumb/7/75/amd_zen_octa-core_die_shot_(annotated).png/1900px-amd_zen_octa-core_die_shot_(annotated).png

https://en.wikichip.org/w/images/thumb/3/3f/amd_zen_octa-core_die_shot.png/1900px-amd_zen_octa-core_die_shot.png

And I'm inclined to agree that those are entirely separate

[fickle ore]

^CPU->FRONT->CHIPSET->? odd routing on the ACE

[astral haven]

Probably was a routing issue?

[fickle ore]

Could be the front port is direct cpu, but it isn't showing up by defualt since I havent connected it to the motherboard, so I can't confirm via device manager

[astral haven]

Check your block diagram

[fickle ore]

None released for x570 tomahawk

[astral haven]

And either way it's supposed to appear as a unified logical controller

[fickle ore]

x570 phantom-itx only has 1

[astral haven]

The official spec calls for 4

But I've only ever seen it in 2+2

Nope

Official amd

Limited to gen 1 if they don't try on the routing

[fickle ore]

odd, maybe they can change those, or rate them differently depending on the shielding/quality of traces etc

[astral haven]

I mean you can always drop speed

Also since x570 is the same as the mattise and Vermeer iodie it also has a minimum of 4 by definition

What's strange there?

Shame they aren't using CPU 2.0 ports tho

Those are amazing for mice

That's definitely a routing nightmare tho

Amd

[fickle ore]

@astral haven it reads 2x 3.2 gen 2 and 2x 3.2 gen 1 :b

[astral haven]

yea but you can always turn a gen 2 connector into a gen 1 connector

thats ez

[fickle ore]

one of them is sadly C, but 3 usable ports is quite nice

[reef tundra]

They really need to take some kneecaps for that bs they pulled in the naming

[fickle ore]

yeah usb naming became horrid

[astral haven]

i use 2 out of my 1 current usb c ports

[fickle ore]

Yes but why would they do it, if it weren't for signal quality issues..?

So I suspect it's that

[astral haven]

to be entirely fair to the original intention of the usbif, they wanted you to call the usb by its "speed"
so low speed, full speed, high speed, superspeed, superspeed+

but everyone ignored that and called them by the version of the spec

noone complains for a second that displayport 1.4 has 3 different speed classes in it and they are the same 3 speed classes as in dp1.2

[reef tundra]

For the average user its way too complex to be of any use. bigger number == better.

[astral haven]

i mean

yes?

when isnt that the case?

[reef tundra]

usb 3.2 Gen 2x2

[astral haven]

bigger number is better

[reef tundra]

But what will they interpret that when gen 3 comes around

[astral haven]

wdym?

theres no gen 3 and there never will be

next usb speedup /revision /whatever is usb 4

[reef tundra]

Ooh, USB 4 specification has a Specification Language Usage Guidelines available? 3 pages long.

[astral haven]

there has always been that for every usb revision -_-

[reef tundra]

USB-IF emphasizes the importance and value of consistent messaging on USB product packaging,
marketing materials, and advertising. Inconsistent use of terminology creates confusion in the
marketplace, can be misleading to consumers, and potentially diminishes USB-IF’s trademark rights.

Most of it is just telling that manufactureres should adhere to the naming more closely

[astral haven]

yes

[reef tundra]

USB-IF Product Data Base Notice to OEMs and Manufacturers
The term(s) “TBT3” or “Thunderbolt” should not be used in the USB-IF product/marketing description of
products being listed in the USB-IF data base that are being submitted/certified by the USB-IF. Note, companies may choose to use these term(s) “TBT3” or “Thunderbolt” as part of their actual
product information as authorized by Intel, but these terms do not belong in the USB-IF data base.

Preempting marketing yet again

Will still happen a lot, but alteast they warned you

Wouldnt intel be able to take those items down for trademark infringement, in that case.

[astral haven]

why?

a tb3 device can be usb4

in fact most tb3 devices already are usb4

if they arent actually tb3 then that will be a problem

but as long as they are tb3, they can call themselves tb3 as long as they want

[reef tundra]

On 24 May 2017, Intel announced that Thunderbolt 3 would become a royalty-free standard to OEMs and chip manufacturers in 2018, as part of an effort to boost the adoption of the protocol.
that makes the point irralevant in the first place with that

I thought they still held exclusive rights to thunderbolt 3

[astral haven]

they have exclusive rights to "thunderbolt 3™️"

but you can put the hardware wherever you want as long as its not called thunderbolt

[reef tundra]

To certificating them

[astral haven]

yup, certification is only for tb4

[astral haven]

Why make a high quality motherboard when a nice coat of paint will do

It's a very nice coat of paint lol

[young pecan]

Is the board shit?

Also why put art on the back...? Asus? You ok?

Ok sure, but is the board spec good?

That says absolutely nothing.

TUF boards run from awful to really good.

shrugs Is it upper mid tier or above as far as a board of the generation goes?

I’m in 100 grand of debt, don’t talk to me about money. :C

[crisp granite]

that's your fault tbh

but it doesn't even seem like a bad debt you've taken

those GPUs will sell for what you bought them... AT LEAST

[young pecan]

That’d be because I know what I’m doing with it.

[crisp granite]

possibly more now that lite hash rate cards are floating around

[young pecan]

The LHR cards mean nothing to me.

They don’t stop me whatsoever.

[crisp granite]

they're still profitable

[young pecan]

Just not for Ethash yet.

[crisp granite]

anyway

[young pecan]

That’s getting broken very soon. I almost smell the hackers nutting.

[crisp granite]

Aeon...when I get a new phone, I gotta flex that other 3070 I snagged

not an LHR card, an EVGA XC3 Ultra gaming

[young pecan]

I’ll take a pic of my awful cable management mining rig. :P

[crisp granite]

it's a sick looking card

[crisp granite]

my phone is ancient and takes really bad photos, poor rez and such

I'm saving your eyes

[young pecan]

[crisp granite]

I'm gonna get a new one in a few weeks

I just don't know which to get

[young pecan]

Flagship iPhone or a tertiary Android phone.

OnePlus or something of that sort.

[crisp granite]

I want to get a samsung

just...which one???

[young pecan]

Don’t.

[crisp granite]

why?

[young pecan]

Go for a better phone.

[crisp granite]

last one still kickin' rn

[young pecan]

Samsung doesn’t actually make the apex of phones rn.

[crisp granite]

I'm well aware

I'm not after the apex

I want a strong performer

[young pecan]

Lots of companies out there anyway, some kinda smack em around for the same price.

^

A PixelXL device would be fuckin’ great.

Those things are surprisingly good value.

[crisp granite]

fine

but before I dig deeper

milk and halva

brb

[young pecan]

Same with anything Apple.

It’s so depressing.

Did it just work?

Quite pog.

Unlike iTunes.

iTunes is pogn’t.

[reef patrol]

Always delightful to wake up to Google having a meltdown.

[cursive summit]

Google's having a meltdown?

[reef patrol]

Gmail had a huge outtage. Which caused Android phone to do a "Google has crashed" popup loop.

[cursive summit]

hmmm

Didn't have that issue

[reef patrol]

Only affected some phones apparently. I guess some might have a longer tolerance for checking up on Gmail.

Wife's phone was going nuts.

[halcyon moss]

well, my zigbee CC2531 dongle's time is over, it has been replaced.

[cursive summit]

https://community.amd.com/t5/blogs/product-and-os-support-update-for-radeon-software-adrenalin-21-6/ba-p/477423

GCN 1-3 archs will no longer be supported moving forwards

So, R series and lower

R9 390X, etc

Polaris cards and Vegas still supported

Sadly my boy R9 Fury and Nano has met his end

Also, FSR is available

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-21-6-1

[young pecan]

Don't bitch about the R9 Fury.

It's not a GPU.

It's a space heater.

Iirc that card is accepted to run at 80c+...

[cursive summit]

Fury is still an amazing card for its time

The only problem with it it's that it ain't future proofed

4GBs of VRAM is painful

If it had at least 6 or even 8

It'd be relevant for years to come

[reef patrol]

Still beats the 970's 3½ GB xD

[cursive summit]

Jesus mansen, where'd you pull the special symbols out of

[reef patrol]

The what now?

[reef patrol]

Oh. That's on base layer in ISO DA xD

[wheat plume]

he has a compose key xd

[ashen spindle]

at least its not 3 ⅓ to confuse people even more

[reef patrol]

It's the tilde key next to 1 on the row.

Quarters and thirds however are absolutely hidden away. We just use ½ casually like that.

[cursive summit]

My tilde doesn't do those things 😄

[old marlin]

⅖

[ashen spindle]

as if mansen would use linux good one

[reef patrol]

[wheat plume]

:P

½

⅘

[old marlin]

what about ẞ though

[wheat plume]

ß

[ashen spindle]

wrong one

[wheat plume]

I noticed

[fickle ore]

Any nerds on AMD GPU, new driver fixed power usage on idle (from 31W to 6-8W): https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/o5grk2/new_amd_2161_radeon_drivers_finally_fixed_144hz/

[ashen spindle]

not an issue for me since im only on 100hz

[vapid zodiac]

needed new drivers for a while

apparently needs windows update... wtf

[pale sigil]

https://youtu.be/K07sEM6y4Uc

i got the 2tb btw

[ashen spindle]

wut, isnt this a really old thing that happend

[reef patrol]

Nope.

Well yes and no. They never stopped 😄

That specific SKU has 5 secret variants of controller and NAND.

[ashen spindle]

yea I have one too and remember checking that, what, last year or so?

[reef patrol]

TLDR; Linus put up a bounty for every unique variant to buy from fans. Then he benchmarked them to show that changing parts matter. And is absolutely something manufacturers need to disclose. Cause the reviews don't match consumer products at all.

[ashen spindle]

does it at least match the specs they put out themselves?

for random/seq read/writes ?

[reef patrol]

They just say "up to"

[old marlin]

8 actually

[reef patrol]

So... anything between zero and 3500 is TECHNICALLY true.

[old marlin]

linus just had 5 different ones to test

[reef patrol]

Touché

[pale sigil]

i emailed em mine

lol

[old marlin]

lol

[young pecan]

How do you think that’d go in court?

That stinks of a class action if I’ve ever known one to happen.

[reef patrol]

The thing about class action suits is... They can takes five or more years and give each owner...20bucks maybe.

[pale sigil]

teaches em a lesson tho

[wheat plume]

This is a reason I have a dash cam

https://youtu.be/wKJZTRAzSKI

For fuckers like this

Trying to claim you hit them

[ashen spindle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFZAo6xItOI

[dry tendon]

FSR is actually good. I expected decent but it is actually good lol

[ashen spindle]

yeah (ultra)quality modes seem quite nice

but you do notice the differences, dlss is much better at lower resolution upscaling than fsr

which is kinda ironic, given ampere mostly flexing it's muscle at 4k resolution

[cursive summit]

Damn they actually released a competitive product?

Siiick

[dry tendon]

I will be honest with you - DLSS 2.2 even is best used at 4K and Quality mode

FSR is similar

[cursive summit]

Nvidia 10-series owners are prospering rn

[ashen spindle]

but I'm quite happy to see they can compete on a close level, so they have some time before they actually need to add AI upscaling in like 3 gpu generations or so

because in the long run you will need that

[dry tendon]

I mean, AMD usually does that. Sometimes it isnt a GREAT competitor, sometimes its a clean sweep curbstomp (R9 380 vs 960, 6800 vs 3070 Ti)

[cursive summit]

What's the cloud thing they are doing

RDNA3 will bring like cloud accelerated ray tracing or something?

Or was that 4

[ashen spindle]

wut

[cursive summit]

This thingy

Does this tie into FSR being a thing now?

[dry tendon]

anything cloud accelerated can go suck it

[ashen spindle]

it says ray tracing vision, how does that relate to FSR

[cursive summit]

Well we are in the next gen point rn with the hardware acceleration

FSR is in a way cloud accelerated

It's "smart"

And could defo help with ray tracing

[ashen spindle]

uhhhh

as it's not saying real time that most likely means using cloud computing to build it with raytracing baked or so

or maybe pre-generated info ala dlss to easier compute it on the final pc

but fsr has as much to do with RT as any other setting you can change to get more fps

but best part it's open source so it can be used much more

[reef patrol]

Oh look - Every single tech youtuber is talking about FSR today. I wonder if AMD NDAs are suddenly over.

[ashen spindle]

given they publicly announced the date when they unveiled fsr during computex... yes?

[crimson wigeon]

Great I wonder if it works with my card oh wait they put it on legacy support feels fucking bad man

[ashen spindle]

[crimson wigeon]

I don't see why it wouldn't work anyway isn't it really just some fancy shader

[ashen spindle]

just wait a month for the usual linux nerds to work 24/7 on it to release it for older cards if it does work

also it's a game thing, not a driver thing so it might still work out of the box?

[reef patrol]

You're missing the "oh look - review time" snark 😛

[ashen spindle]

ah 😛

[crimson wigeon]

Ah yes I'm sure they'll also figure out how to apply it to every game

[ashen spindle]

ehh, since it takes place before the final image, that would require extra hackery for every game

possible

but even for the linux no lifers a long work

[crimson wigeon]

Nah just apply it on the finished frame

Who cares if the interface looks messed up

[dry tendon]

So FSR at 4K max vs DLSS 2.2 at 4K quality
FSR slightly under DLSS 2.2 in image quality, no bluring like DLSS though, similar image quality

DLSS advantages come into play with lower resolutions or quality settings though

[pale sigil]

Any database manager suggestions?

or well a gui tool

[misty saffron]

what's wrong with phpmyadmin

[pale sigil]

HeidiSQL being poo

[crimson wigeon]

Why are you using some SQL garbage come on use MongoDB!

[pale sigil]

i usually use mongoDB

[gilded oriole]

Anyone see anything worth getting on Prime Day?

[reef patrol]

No Amazon here. So that's an easy answer 😄

[cursive summit]

I love mySQL WorkBench

Useful stuff

[pale sigil]

not a fan

a lot of clutter

[cursive summit]

That's kinda.. amazing

@wheat plume

[wheat plume]

( i no haz super)

[cursive summit]

1660 could in theory actually 4K

Good results

[wheat plume]

Is this the levels of DLSS?

[cursive summit]

No this is the levels of FSR

[crisp granite]

[cursive summit]

AMD is destroying the market

"See this card? See this card man? 200$? 4K gaming", - Lisa Su

[crisp granite]

nah mate, if you ask me, I'd say NVidia is crushing it with the GT 710

it sucks

but it's in stock

[cursive summit]

6900XT is in stock..

Stock has been normalizing

Price is still a bit high but it's again, normalizing

[crimson wigeon]

ULTRA QUALITY

[crisp granite]

funnily enough, a lot of RTX and RX gpus are in stock rn on amazon.ca, compared to late last year

[crisp granite]

for at least 2 to 3 times what I'd actually pay for them

[ashen spindle]

3080 is in stock too

[crisp granite]

for 1500 euros

that's something the miners would scoop up, not the gamers tbh

[ashen spindle]

no

only 1450 for the one blower style cooler

[crisp granite]

a decent candidate for a waterblock?

[ashen spindle]

not really since you can get one with waterblock for less than that price + waterblock costs atm

I guess yes if you have the block already

[crisp granite]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I don't touch waterblocks

but if I could have saved a few hundred going with one, I'd splash out on a rad and pump

[cursive summit]

Guys

I found a steal deal

[crisp granite]

vexxsie

that cost more than both of my RTX 3070s

combined

[wheat plume]

wot tf

[crisp granite]

how is that a deal?

[wheat plume]

sarcasm

[crisp granite]

ah

[wheat plume]

you nitwit

[crisp granite]

should just put "/s" after that so that I understand it is sarcasm

[wheat plume]

i usually do

/s

jk I do xd

[cursive summit]

I mean I don't really consider you retarded enough that you'd think that 6k for a 500$ GPU is a "deal"

[crisp granite]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

you underestimate my ability to fuck up

[cursive summit]

Nah I like you, don't worry

No homo

[crisp granite]

😳

[cursive summit]

NO HOMO

[crisp granite]

what if it was homo?

[cursive summit]

Sadly there is and won't be any

[crisp granite]

ok

[young pecan]

Holy shit wot?

Who tf is paying 6 grand for a 3070...?

[cursive summit]

Me

Apparently

[young pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/wheeze-laugh-gif-14359545

[crisp granite]

vexxsie

wtf m8

my cards were both less than 1k CAD each

and you are considering 6000+ euros on one GPU?

[young pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/yeet-oof-gif-18378648

• Vexx wallet

It's such a good gif.

I've gotten so much use out of it.

[cursive summit]

I am not

[young pecan]

Bruh, wym?

I can get a Threadripper Pro for that card.

Worth it.

[cursive summit]

I mean if I sent the picture, then I am "apparently" considering it

[young pecan]

[cursive summit]

Nah I ain't buying no cards anytime soon

[young pecan]

Just...

Go crypto mining.

[cursive summit]

When time comes, either next gen stuff or 6800XT is my thing

[young pecan]

Now is kinda the best time.

[cursive summit]

Meh

[young pecan]

Hyper pog.

[cursive summit]

Scared of PC blowing up

[young pecan]

Lmfao

Pussy.

[cursive summit]

Also I need my PC for work

When this piece of shit is mining, I can't do shit

[young pecan]

My cards.

I'd rather replace the fans early since they're literally cheaper than having a hooker spit on you.

[cursive summit]

Meh

I'll find ways to get money

[young pecan]

Imagine.

[cursive summit]

A single 5700 won't earn me a fortune anyways

[young pecan]

No shit, that's the point of a loan.

[cursive summit]

Fuck off

[young pecan]

[cursive summit]

I ain't risking my future cause some guy on the internet told me so

You like playing risks? Sure

[young pecan]

Then do the math, it's not hard.

[cursive summit]

Don't go advising people to risk their livelihoods

[crisp granite]

what if I told you, that stocks are indeed a great way to grow money, with fairly little work

[young pecan]

I'll advise you to do the math and learn your shit.

[cursive summit]

I am in fact going to do stocks

[young pecan]

Does stocks, doesn't do mining.

Bruuuuuuh.

[cursive summit]

Aeon, go commit die

[crisp granite]

Aeon, Direct Investing is great

[young pecan]

Lookit all that greeeeeeeeeeen.

[cursive summit]

Yeah, and

Like I get it that's it's basically a no risk thing

Just sell the cards and get your cash back

I just can't be bothered

[young pecan]

I mean...

[cursive summit]

Neither do I want to be bothered

[young pecan]

Literally everything else is more work.

That's kinda where the point dies, y'know?

Anything else is more effort.

[cursive summit]

It's

1. Boring
2. Not interesting
3. Doesn't really appeal to me
4. I actually want to have fun

Which is why work is actually fun you know

[young pecan]

That's not work, dude.

That's a hobby you get paid for.

A career.

[cursive summit]

Yeah if I wanted that, I'd go pro in gaming

Go do tournaments and stuff

[young pecan]

Work by definition isn't fun.

[cursive summit]

Stream on spare time

[young pecan]

It's a grind.

[cursive summit]

All of that is fun

[young pecan]

If you can enjoy work then it's a career for you.

Very different.

[cursive summit]

Ok, and

[young pecan]

Well, that's not really accurate.

If you enjoy something enough to stay with it for long enough to be classed as a career it's kinda stopped being work as a whole.

Tomato tomato.

[cursive summit]

Fam I want to use my card for gaming

I ain't going to leave it running overnight

[young pecan]

4head, you aren't gaming 100% of the time.

[cursive summit]

So yeah sorry not sorry, but idgaf

[young pecan]

And nighttime makes up half of all time.

[pale sigil]

%mute @cursive summit 1m "revenge for so much stuff"

[young pecan]

In all seriousness, you do you and whatnot.

[pale sigil]

fuck

[young pecan]

Lmao

[cursive summit]

What's much stuff

Kay I got your point

[pale sigil]

oh

would help

if i had the bot on

[crisp granite]

Trigger Warning: Mild flexing, part of finger in frame, poor quality photo

[young pecan]

Very pog!

:)

You should hear it.

[cursive summit]

@young pecan You know what, how about you send me money and I'll make a mining rig, and I'll pay you the whole price back with the mining money +like 20%?

[young pecan]

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[cursive summit]

I ain't taking no damn loan

[pale sigil]

now thats a trigger warning

[young pecan]

All the time.

[pale sigil]

also

%mute @cursive summitsie 1m "revenge for so much stuff"

[young pecan]

Loud as fuck.

[pale sigil]

abort

[latent mural]

Aborted

[crisp granite]

[pale sigil]

%mute @cursive summit 1m "revenge for so much stuff"

[latent mural]

Muted Vexx#8933 for 1m.

[young pecan]

@cursive summit Lmfao, you strike a shit deal.

[pale sigil]

THere we go

[young pecan]

My deal with my investors is actually so much better.

[crisp granite]

sad thing is that the miners do that shit so often that the supply is non-existent

[young pecan]

rolls eyes Y'know all of those cards came from gamers making a quick flip, aye?

[crisp granite]

welp

[young pecan]

Yep.

[crisp granite]

still

mining is shite

[young pecan]

Naah.

[crisp granite]

for everyone else

[young pecan]

I make stonks, dude.

[crisp granite]

so do I with stocks, but without fucking lots of others over

fuck, english is hard

[young pecan]

Think about it this way, my investors get a fantastic deal so I'm alright dealing with it.

Other people benefit, therefore humanity, therefore morally green.

[crisp granite]

🙄

[pale sigil]

%unmute @cursive summit

[latent mural]

Unmuted @cursive summit

[pale sigil]

in4 mod abuse

[crisp granite]

abooose

[cursive summit]

Yes we can both read your PMs

[pale sigil]

ty for being my test subject

[young pecan]

She ever left?

[cursive summit]

Yeah I'd rather have you subject Lana for those things

At least it'd be somewhat kinky

[pale sigil]

i already did

she got muted for escaping her cage

[cursive summit]

I'll take this as a weird declaration of "proclaiming love"

So, thanks?

Was I ever in any cage?

[young pecan]

Mates, think about it this way...

[crisp granite]

Aeon

stop

mining bad for hardware market, but make stonks

mkay?

[young pecan]

One day. :)

All solo mined blocks.

[cursive summit]

Aeon my offer still stands, if you really want me to get into your shitty mining, get me like 5k, we can sign a contract, I'll get you back like 7k in few years time

[young pecan]

Pff, 5k?

The fuck you gonna do with 5k?

[cursive summit]

Buy like 2 cards and a mobo

[young pecan]

My standard deal with investors is 20k, 10k minimums.

60k maximums.

[crisp granite]

hm

[cursive summit]

How the fuck am I going to return 20k

[young pecan]

Easily?

[cursive summit]

I would earn 600 a month in a job at bare minimum

[crisp granite]

can you best my usual year over year growth with stocks, Aeon?

[cursive summit]

I ain't in magical aussieland

20k is massive money here

Would take me years to return that

[young pecan]

Yeah, that's why I went family first.

Grandmother gave me 10k, other fam gave me 5k each for a combined 20k.

I have another 20k lined up with a prospective 40k tomorrow.

[cursive summit]

Yeah if I ever mentioned those projects to my family, I'd get fucked up instead

[young pecan]

I'm hoping for the 80k, but I'm not expecting it.

[cursive summit]

And prolly kicked out of the house

[crisp granite]

Aeon, growth per year pls?

[young pecan]

Maybe 60k or so.

[crisp granite]

I'd like to know what I could expect should I invest

[young pecan]

Depends on the year, in theory a 20k rig returns a bare minimum of 17k yearly at the shitty mining time of now, but they can easily push 35k when the season is good.

[cursive summit]

When it came to my card like what, a month back. I could buy a brand new 5700 after a month of mining

[young pecan]

If you're smart with your investing and you do compound investing you can maybe do 50k annually after a few cycles.

[cursive summit]

So basically put 2 together, 2 weeks for a new card, 3 for 1.5 weeks for a new card, 4 for 1 week, etc

[crisp granite]

compared to stocks, that's stellar, but...I don't see any safeguards...

[cursive summit]

And that snowball is stupid af

[young pecan]

Basically, Vexx.

[young pecan]

The safeguard is that you can simply change what you mine.

[cursive summit]

I think the safe guard is

You can just sell the equipment

For minimal loss, or profit even

So, either way you break even

[young pecan]

With GPUs you aren't locked into any particular thing, you can go from Eth to CCX like I did, or from Eth to LTC or something.

ASICs have no safeguard whatsoever, but they ROI extremely quickly.

A few months average.

[cursive summit]

There exists a way to earn hundreds of dollars daily?

With minimal investment?

[young pecan]

shrugs Dump 20k into an ASIC.

Plug it in and it does 200 USD daily.

[cursive summit]

I only have like 200$ rn

So, a 200$ asic?

[young pecan]

I wish.

[crisp granite]

no such thing

[cursive summit]

Yeah I know

[crisp granite]

and I knew a guy who bought a lot of last gen ASICs

[crimson wigeon]

Just mine whatever with what you have right now, hodl it for years and hope it's worth loads

[crisp granite]

I think I've told that story already

[young pecan]

Actually this.

[cursive summit]

Idk, idc

[young pecan]

Or you do compound investment with something like Pancake.

[cursive summit]

I just wish I got AMD stocks years ago

Would be like 40x profit rn

[young pecan]

Though I'd wait for USDT to completely collapse before trusting anything Binance.

60bn fraud, anyone?

Biggest in human history.

You guys seen that yet? It's nutty.