🔌│tech

[astral haven]

It's literally 2 entirely separate units on one die

Don't worry, nvidia is preparing lol

[young pecan]

Obviously.

Still, it's on one die.

[astral haven]

Sure but the problem is design

And nvidia figured that part out already

[young pecan]

Well yeah, because GPUs are already so tightly packed that there's no room for power and VRAM delivery.

Honestly, I'm betting on taller GPUs.

Or the dual layer stuff from 2004.

[astral haven]

Look up the a100 block diagram

[young pecan]

I did.

Not a fantastic solution.

[astral haven]

Here's the thing

[young pecan]

Still run into the monolithic die constraints, just the die is bigger.

[astral haven]

It's fully uma

[young pecan]

Mmm.

Interesting, but it doesn’t solve for the monolithic die.

Will be more expensive, harder to produce.

[astral haven]

Yet it is split entirely in half and still appears to be uma

[young pecan]

shrugs True, but it’s 70% of a solution.

They just need to seperate the components into multiple dies and they’re done.

[astral haven]

Sure but amd hasn't figured out uma yet for their chiplet shiz

And that's the hard part

[young pecan]

Mmm. True.

We’ll have to see who gets there first.

[astral haven]

Nvidia is rumored to have a chiplet gpu already

I mean

Intel got their first lel

But uhhhh

[young pecan]

Leaked from where?

Gotta provide a source for a claim like that, else' it's speculation.

[astral haven]

Slides and Chinese leakers

No way to know if it's not just speculation 🤷

[young pecan]

Hoping it isn't.

Gives me a lot to work with.

[astral haven]

Also for the intel one, Intel showed it working

[young pecan]

Huh.

Interesting.

Working as in functioning well?

Or working like Core 11000 series?

[astral haven]

Working as in doing compute fast

[young pecan]

Pog.

[astral haven]

11 series is great...
... if you need avx512

[young pecan]

Lmfao

Great for shit all people, then. Got it.

[astral haven]

And to be fair tho it's their best avx512 yet

[young pecan]

It also runs like a furnace and lost cores?

[astral haven]

Even tho it's bandwidth constrained it's still close to the 14 core skylake x

And whenbyou dont need the bandwidth it performs like a 3990wx

[young pecan]

Honestly, I can't much care for Intel atm.

I just wanna see where Sapphire Rapids goes.

None of their other projects have been interesting me.

[astral haven]

Apparently alderlake supports ddr4 so there might be something to daily there

[frozen vale]

I just really hope 2022 ends up being as exciting as it sounds like, could use some competition on the CPU side before AMD decides to pull an Intel

[young pecan]

Nvidia will prevent that on the enterprise side.

So that's not too concerning.

Just Intel really needs to get their shit together.

[astral haven]

Nvidia does not have cpu perf

[young pecan]

Grace.

Very, very imminent threat for Epyc.

That'll prevent AMD from sitting on it's laurels for now if Nvidia decides to put some pressure on.

Especially if Grace Gen 2 turns out to be ARM based, that'd be kinda scary to contend with.

[frozen vale]

Couldn't see it using anything other than arm since the first one is

[young pecan]

Mhmm.

[astral haven]

Grace is slow asf lel

[young pecan]

shrugs It's not the product that is scary.

It's that Nvidia, who is trying to buy out shitloads of high end companies for years, is stepping into that arena.

[astral haven]

I don't think k you realize how far amd can drop the prices on current epyc

[young pecan]

I do.

[astral haven]

And still make severe amounts of profit

8k 64 core, what's it cost to produce

[young pecan]

Point being that Nvidia now exists as a threat for Epyc, that's a damned good thing when you consider what happened with Intel years ago.

Any visible contender for the enterprise CPU crown is a good thing in my eyes.

[astral haven]

It's really not a threat

[young pecan]

Not now, give it a few years.

AMD won't slip that fast.

Ryzen Gen 1 wasn't really a threat outside of the 1800X and 1600 either.

[astral haven]

It wasn't a threat there either

[young pecan]

Waited a few years and now Intel is a complete joke outside of fringe cases.

They didn't really move all that fast to secure a spot and so AMD kinda just shoved them off.

[astral haven]

Yet intel still is 70% of new installations not including replacing old parts

[young pecan]

Source for that? And in what environment?

Important details can't be missed, man.

[astral haven]

Enterprise, jpr

[young pecan]

Makes sense for enterprise.

New systems expanding on old systems, legit.

But if you were making a completely new system? Mmmmmm, idk about that.

[astral haven]

Again

[astral haven]

Not including

[young pecan]

I didn't say that.

I said expanding onto an old system.

Racks and such.

[astral haven]

Again 70% intel

[young pecan]

Interesting.

[astral haven]

Amd literally doesn't produce enough cpus to break that barrier

[young pecan]

Iirc the popularity is there, no?

[astral haven]

🤷 they sold 100% of their cpus

Doesn't matter how popular you are if you are sold out

[young pecan]

Fair.

[proper crystal]

We don't know what Grace will be. Nvidia doesn't know.

We will know more in winter when Matterhorn launches (ARM next gen core design; very big changes coming)

Also Grace as a system is very heavily set up for GPU compute... but AMD can do the same thing.
Remember that Nvidia's GTC is... Nvidia's. It's marketing. The part about how bad the x86 designs are is marketing half truth at its finest.
Nvidia already had a Grace-like system with POWER9 CPUs which ran NVLink direct...

[astral haven]

grace already exists

we know exactly what it can do

and that is

not much

also the power9 system was fast asf

my uncle got to work with one of them a few years back and uh
it faaaaast

[young pecan]

Oh shit, bois.

Literally 2 graphics cards, fuckin' ok.

[woven dagger]

[young pecan]

ROI of 6 months as well...

Damn.

[cursive summit]

What are you using

@young pecan

What is that screen taken out of?

[young pecan]

Ethermine.

Just changed to Hiveon.

@cursive summit

[cursive summit]

What GPU are you mining on?

[young pecan]

2x RTX 3070.

-500 core, +2600 memory, 130W.

[cursive summit]

Shit, that's a rig

Dunno if my RX 5700 would mine much

[young pecan]

Dude...

It’s a 5700.

High $6 USD per day.

[cursive summit]

That's a lot or not?

[young pecan]

shrugs It’s just below one 3070.

How much did you pay for it in USD?

[cursive summit]

Idk, I bought a prebuilt

[young pecan]

shrugs

Go find a price of it near you and divide the price by the eth earned per day after power.

Further divide by 30 for ROI time in months.

Around 6 to 8 is good rn.

[astral haven]

literally anything with more than 4gb of vram is gonna roi in a year

[young pecan]

Without scalper prices 4 to 5 is good.

[cursive summit]

So if you have 2 of the 3070s, and single each of them are "close" to my card, how are yours pulling 453 USD/month

[young pecan]

Optimisations and overclocking.

You could likely push high $7 USD if you ran it overclocked and mining 24/7.

[cursive summit]

Oh and the final nail in the coffin I guess is, that my card is the blower cooler

[young pecan]

Nah. Just run the fan a wee higher. Should be ok. :P

[cursive summit]

How much do you pay per watt?

[young pecan]

0.2 USD or so per KWh.

0.28 AUD.

[cursive summit]

Huh

Here it's 0.15 or so

EUR

[young pecan]

About the same, then.

Both of my cards consume around $1.60 per day.

[cursive summit]

And earn how much?

[young pecan]

Around $16 after power.

[cursive summit]

Eh if I didn't use my PC nearly whole day, I would mine

But as it happens I do actually need my PC

[young pecan]

Mining nights would pay your power bill, at least.

[astral haven]

at least on nvidia you can mine while using the computer normally

[young pecan]

^

That too.

My RTX 2070 Max Q is mostly fine to mine and game so long as the game is light on the VRAM.

[astral haven]

yea i cant quite game without feeling the stutter

[young pecan]

Same for me.

Wish I had a 3090, tbh.

That thing wouldn’t even notice, it’s such a monster of a card.

[astral haven]

uh

i have a 3090

[young pecan]

:C

Feelsbadman.

[astral haven]

i have it constantly severely power limited cause im too lazy to actually tune it properly

which is why itll stutter

if you actually underclock it instead of just setting a power limit it shouldnt stutter

[young pecan]

Mmmm.

[shadow minnow]

6 hours 👀

[woven dagger]

anyone knows a free substitute for exitlag?

[zenith sonnet]

Infinity Cache rocking it

[fickle ore]

seems like 😄

but seems to be a function of die size aswell

[zenith sonnet]

Of course a larger die has higher latencies

So, a 6700XT should be slightly lower

[shadow minnow]

Fractal design is apparently working on pcie gen 4 riser for their cases Pog

[woven dagger]

wow, thanks for the help clown

[reef patrol]

#archived_fortnite_double_movement my dude. Don't cross contaminate. And wash your hands 😄

[woven dagger]

okay

[hard thicket]

quite on point, sometimes i do graphical/physics workload in the background while playing and it just doesn't care

[crisp granite]

now it's not crossposting, but cross contaminating

I prefer that term tbh

[young pecan]

@hard thicket Ikr. Just the sheer amount of VRAM simply rips through everything.

Fuck knows why you ever need that much VRAM in a single card, but nvidia did it.

[hard thicket]

especially if you have two of them in nv

[young pecan]

Mmm.

[hard thicket]

managed to cap it once at 48gigs

[young pecan]

How even?

[hard thicket]

with some heavy particle simulation

[young pecan]

Huh. What were you simulating that takes so much VRAM on that card?

Atmospheric shit?

[hard thicket]

yup.

but i went with an fully inefficient route so

[young pecan]

Ah.

[hard thicket]

it wasn't nessecary, was just curious of the limit

[young pecan]

Lmao

Honestly, it’s such an overkill card for most applications.

And even if you’re doing something that needs more VRAM it’ll likely need more speed as well, so Quadro...

[hard thicket]

for workloads it replaced two quadro A6000's for me

[young pecan]

Not surprising, tbh.

[hard thicket]

for 1/4 of the price

[young pecan]

I just wish I could run game servers on GPUs.

Then I could justify buying one for fun.

[hard thicket]

or VM's

[young pecan]

VMs are braindead to run.

Holy fuck, just use Proxmox.

I swear that program just eats nothingness in resources. Such a small amount of overhead required.

[hard thicket]

yikes

was hoping the opposite

[young pecan]

It’s beautiful.

[hard thicket]

oh wait

misread

[young pecan]

Modified Debian 10, it just sips resources.

[hard thicket]

thats great

[young pecan]

So beautiful.

Iirc it runs on a whole 1 gig of RAM.

Just a single gig.

[hard thicket]

never really looked into the solution, but that might replace a whole rack for me

[young pecan]

Mmmm. That’s my plan.

Threadripper 3990X, have the Proxmox server run HEAPS of stuff.

[hard thicket]

the 3990x was on my sight just because of that

[young pecan]

All of the gaming rigs, OpenVPN tunnel to home, plex server as well as piracy server, game servers, seedbox, docker, major scale projects, etc etc.

[hard thicket]

on a single machine

[young pecan]

Could also just stick the NAS into it.

And home automation/security.

[hard thicket]

thats just nuts

the sheer amount of space you save

and the power costs

[young pecan]

Attach some backplanes and have NV GPUs for work and more planes for gaming setups.

Just pass the USB and shit in.

Attach whole rig to UPS.

[hard thicket]

a A100 for shits and giggles

wet dream

[young pecan]

One little mini rack taken.

I guess I’d need a 4U for the 3990X, and maybe another one for the planes.

[hard thicket]

depends on the usage

[young pecan]

2U for SSD storage with a 3U for spinning storage.

Literally do petabyte project at home. Shits and gigs.

[hard thicket]

are there not NVME supported U1 racks already ?

[young pecan]

If you can afford it...

There are but it requires so, SO much airflow.

Sounds like a jet engine.

[hard thicket]

oh right heat

forgot about that part

[young pecan]

Little tiny 1U.

Poor 40mm fans.

[hard thicket]

go the camino route

[young pecan]

Spinning at 22 thousand RPM.

[hard thicket]

fully custom loop 4U rack

pure silence

[young pecan]

That’s my current PC.

[hard thicket]

what

[young pecan]

Getting a Silverstone 4U soon.

[hard thicket]

wait wait

[young pecan]

I have the watercooling already.

[hard thicket]

you got the comino ?

[young pecan]

Nah. Doing a rack, tho.

[ashen spindle]

If you just use it at home and don’t actually need the exact 1u size mod it with some metal chunks for heatsinks and much less air is needed lmao, might even still stay 1u if you’re good

[hard thicket]

also there are watercooling solutions for 1U racks

[young pecan]

Jesus fuck, how much blood do you think I have?

[hard thicket]

might help with the noise

[young pecan]

Not gonna butcher my fingers trying that.

[hard thicket]

guess you are not into SFF lol

[young pecan]

Oh I am.

Just trying to mod a 1U to be a halfway passive heatsink?

Yeah...

‘Suppose it’s doable easily enough...

With a router, anyway.

[ashen spindle]

I didn’t say passive cooling, just enough so you don’t Need 5billion rpm xD

[young pecan]

But passive, tho.

It’s totally doable.

[hard thicket]

it is for what costs lol

[young pecan]

Basically need to mill a chunk of metal to contact all heat sources and use wicks to transport it around.

Hyper custom job.

[ashen spindle]

Isn’t noctua releasing a passive cooler this year for like 150w CPU’s ? Just take that

[hard thicket]

for a U1

lol

[young pecan]

Lmfao ok then.

[hard thicket]

with a hole cutout

[young pecan]

The dream.

Little tiny Noctua Chromax cooler.

That but passive. Gimmie.

Mmm. But my plan is essentially to stick 3U cases to my walls.

Make a gaming room where the servers are actually just attached to the walls.

Cables through the roof.

Down the middle area between the desks, then water cool everything and run as silent as possible. Replace the tops with tempered glass and RGB the flying fuck out of them.

Something stupidly complex like that. Been wanting it for a while.

[hard thicket]

my dream is to take all that, put it into a rack

take the rack and place it in another room

so there is no noise whatsoever

[reef patrol]

But...the hum of a server is heaven.

Why would you deny yourself the heavenly sounds?

[hard thicket]

what hum

all i hear is a whoooooooshhhhhhh

and a reeeee from the 40mm fans

[reef patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/relaxed-olaf-relax-gif-6134398

[old marlin]

@fair gull ever touched a phone server?

[halcyon moss]

Like SIP?

i dont hate myself that much :p

[old marlin]

understandable

after swapping to a new connection with the telekom and going from 8 to 16 channels we had some problems

[halcyon moss]

also, who the f still calls? :p

[old marlin]

and the support is currently making it worse

[halcyon moss]

ah, work.. yes

[old marlin]

this is at work

[halcyon moss]

i thought home.

[old marlin]

they decided to do a software update

which worsened the problem we had before

and made 4 dect centers to not work anymore

and now they tried to update those 4

but managed to make none of them work anymore

one after another

so I am already looking at alternatives

I wanted to get rid of this thing for 3 years

like ngl our fritzbox would have done a better job probably

so I might have freePBX running by the end of the week

quite honestly can't get worse than it was before

[fair gull]

i did use one dont remember the name

3cx or smth i think

[old marlin]

are those decent?

[fair gull]

for my home usecase of 1 number for a single meeting call yes

[old marlin]

why did you not just use your fritzbox

[fair gull]

cause that didnt work with microsip and still doesnt after countless different tutorials

[old marlin]

ah

[fair gull]

so i basically had the other one as a middleman so to say

which somehow made it all work

[old marlin]

yea uhhh

workday for their support ended

after making it worse for 6 hours

[fair gull]

lol

[old marlin]

yea uhhh

we have exactly 0 dect centers working rn

oh

the one competent support guy from them might come over now

[fair gull]

lol

have u tried turning it off and on again

[old marlin]

[fair gull]

if that doesnt fix it u will need to buy a new system

100%

[old marlin]

freePBX

[fair gull]

i have a way easier solution

[old marlin]

which would be?

[halcyon moss]

isdn

[old marlin]

don't have that anymore

that was the reason why the previous one was shut down

[fair gull]

dont use phone easy fix

[old marlin]

[fair gull]

no phone no trouble

[old marlin]

tell that to my colelagues

[fair gull]

all ur issues rn are caused cause u use phone

[ashen spindle]

Just replace every phone with some phone like device that’s just running Skype

[old marlin]

skype is going to be dead soon

[fair gull]

discord

[old marlin]

needs to do phone calls

I'd rather just set up PBX

[ashen spindle]

<insert voip of choice>

[fair gull]

ubiquiti phone system

[old marlin]

Too expensive

[fair gull]

and us only

[shadow minnow]

Friend got a windows pc after being on Mac, and after 3 days, app already broken and refuses to launch

[old marlin]

[ashen spindle]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/04/microsoft-visual-studio-2022-will-finally-enter-the-64-bit-world/

wrong link, but still fits I guess

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/04/htcs-wireless-vive-air-headset-outed-by-a-premature-award/

meant to link that

"concept piece, the VIVE Air VR headset"

[shadow minnow]

And it still refuses to work for who knows what reason

[ashen spindle]

I'm certain I now the issue there

PEBCAK

[shadow minnow]

?

[ashen spindle]

ELI5'ing that usually helps but is a lot of work

[wheat plume]

Colorful Mac??!!

[vast moss]

fancy

[old marlin]

1450 euros

and you don't even get any ports

besides 2 TB3/USB4 ports

[crimson wigeon]

what's this

[old marlin]

you need a fucking dock for your desktop

[crimson wigeon]

Oh new M1 Macs

Makes sense, Apple loves them dongles

[old marlin]

oh also

8gb shared ram

in a 1.9k€ desktop

wtf is that bs

I don't get it

what is the reasoning for the highest model

you pay 230 euros for 256gb of storage

???

that is close to ten times more expensive than m.2 SSDs actually cost

[cursive summit]

Apple customer support and repair service

Good shit

[old marlin]

there is no support difference between models though?

like

[crimson wigeon]

It just works

[old marlin]

the value proposition on all of them is bad

but the most expensive vs the middle one

is 230 euros

for 256gb of storage

and in case the storage fails you loose all data

so the support is irrelevant

[shadow minnow]

The new iPad 12.7 is really Pog

[crimson wigeon]

Wait 8 gigs of shared RAM
It's like they want it to swap constantly eating up all the SSD writes Pepega

[old marlin]

lol

btw

for that upcost you can get a 1tb external drive + a TB3 enclosure for it

[shadow minnow]

Yeah the ssd and ram up costs on Apple products are always crazy

[old marlin]

was it ever this stupid though?

[shadow minnow]

I don’t think it was, although there may be ram upgrade too, as M1 has two versions

But compared to the iMac, the new iPad looks really great

Thunder bolt, M1 up to 16 gb ram, mini led...

[crimson wigeon]

Why does a little portable tablet have more memory and storage than a big fat desktop computer

[reef patrol]

How on earth does a Mac only have 8GB RAM in 2021...

[old marlin]

tbh you probably can't even open it

[shadow minnow]

By ram upgrade, I mean 256 version may have 16gb

[shadow minnow]

Well, it kinda sucks, but also ram efficiency with ram and Apple os. Looks at phones, where iPhone with less than half the ram can usually keep more tabs open and is faster.

But overall the big bezels and iMacs price... iPad or M1 macbooks look lot better

[misty saffron]

copied ram management from ios

as simple as that

i would get the new imac if i wasn’t a windows developer

fucking windows

[old marlin]

if you hate windows that much

you have a free alternative

[misty saffron]

the alternative doesn’t pay

[old marlin]

you don't need to get squeezed out of your money

you don't need to develop windows programms on windows?

VMs are a thing

[shadow minnow]

New parallels support windows on M1 too which is quite Pog

[misty saffron]

huh.

now you’re actually making me consider buying an imac

[old marlin]

can't wait to see that perf drop

[misty saffron]

actually, nah

not running a windows vm on 8gb

[reef patrol]

You can't "RAM efficiency" Photoshop. If it needs to open a big, layered file it needs all of that RAM 😂

[shadow minnow]

Some storage versions afaik may have 16gb but not sure

[misty saffron]

there’s a reason i have 64gb currently

🙄

running 5 vms at a time helps test shit faster

[ashen spindle]

enjoy some random dev software not working because it needs some SVE simd that m1 doesn't have or runs years slower because it translates it to neon or so

[shadow minnow]

Also vesa mount on iMac, still the design is pretty outdated, for things iPad apps are enough iPad looks lot better

[misty saffron]

i do have an ipad pro

mostly replaces laptop

[shadow minnow]

But also, 850w psu enough for i9 11900k and 3080 water cooled with OC? Corsair rmi series discontinued

[misty saffron]

yes

intel though

[shadow minnow]

Well if I went amd I would not be able to boot the system for another few months till I get GPU

But yeah the value sucks

[misty saffron]

do people not have a spare gpu

[ashen spindle]

buy a 710 for 10 bucks and boot it

[misty saffron]

a 1050ti is always in my server pc

[shadow minnow]

Not when building their first pc

[ashen spindle]

also yeah, 1k for mobo+cpu but some budget PSU, makes so much sense

[shadow minnow]

Kinda yes, also was planning it for a long time

[misty saffron]

bad planning

[old marlin]

my server has a

uhhh

gpu

probably

unsure actually

[shadow minnow]

I think that I have some pci GPU at home but that would not help much

[misty saffron]

i can send you one for free

[old marlin]

I think some random old quadro

[ashen spindle]

he can afford some random spare gpu if you look at what he's getting

[old marlin]

a K4000?

[misty saffron]

i have geforce something i don’t need

there

can run gta 5

[old marlin]

sure

[shadow minnow]

I mean, intel iGPU really sucks but think it will be bit better compared to this

[old marlin]

ngl

[cursive summit]

I think it runs GTA 4

Clue's on the chip

[old marlin]

the K4000 is prob worse than a modern intel iGPU

[proper crystal]

Is it the good GeForce 4, or the bad one?

[misty saffron]

my geforce 4 440 go is the best

pretty sure it’s fucked though

[old marlin]

I have a ton of spare matrox G200s

[misty saffron]

tried redlining and it still draws cute red rectangles all over the screen

reflowing*

[shadow minnow]

I have no idea how is the pci GPU called, also have some spare cpu cyrix mx2 with some bent pins here

75 MHz PogChamp

[misty saffron]

fuck it

$300 bag charm

[shadow minnow]

Yeah those premium brands.... just because of brand name they can charge anything (Hermès)

[misty saffron]

human skin doesn’t cost as much

fuck kinda leather they using

alien?

[shadow minnow]

Apple leather

[crisp granite]

human skin is fairly cheap, no?

[misty saffron]

yeah i can get some for free rn

gimme a sec need a knife

[shadow minnow]

Does it come with from diamond made apple air tag since it’s called Hermès air tag or what

[misty saffron]

comes with the sense of being ripped off

[shadow minnow]

Sure not, it’s definitely good value, why would they sell it otherwise?

[vast moss]

At first glance, that looked like it was chipped; on second look; it seems that that's just how it was designed.

[shadow minnow]

Great, so even uninstalling and installing again app that refuses to launch. So excited for windows

[pale sigil]

Sigh

[young pecan]

@pale sigil What JB and IOS version etc?

[pale sigil]

14.2

checkra1n

[young pecan]

Nice.

You should update to 14.3 Taurine.

There's a blobless method out atm.

Patched in a few days, by account of the dev. Works as I can confirm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/comments/mm0g3f/news_new_method_of_updating_to_ios_143_if_you_are/

[pale sigil]

I saw

[young pecan]

Mm.

How fast is Checkra1n? Was on unc0ver before and it was getting pretty sluggish.

[astral haven]

android is great you dont need root for most things

[zenith sonnet]

Damn, Adrenalin 21.4.1 looks juicy

[young pecan]

@astral haven Yeah, but nobody is actually going to keep it unrooted if they want to be able to really customise shit.

And honestly, iPhones are far better for the modification scene.

I’d say that they both have upsides and downsides. The OS is just opinion based, iPhone security tends to be WAY better due to the container build, android is far easier to exploit a vast majority of the time, etc etc.

The only thing is when you jailbreak an iPhone you can kinda change it from the ground up to be whatever. Hell, my iPhone is basically a mirror of android with iPhone style features.

[astral haven]

Don't need to root for pretty much any customization

Android is containerized just like ios

And android doesn't need a root to be entirely changed

[young pecan]

It does because of the containerised design.

Admittedly there’s not much that needs root, but if you’re going the custom route why not go all the way?

[empty wren]

Root requires an unlocked bootloader these days I would think. Having an unlocked bootloader is a security risk.

[astral haven]

nope

most roots these days are just like ios jailbreaks

unlocked bootloader is only if you want a custom android version

a root just gives you root permissions on your current android os

[pale sigil]

@young pecan it's annoying considering I have to boot Linux up

[young pecan]

Mmmm. Might be worth upgrading to Taurine.

Works with the AltStore method.

[astral haven]

and android in general is alot harder to attack
it usually takes 6-8 months after launch for the dod to get into the average android device (without going to the manufacturer)
vs apple where its within a week of launch

and the best thing about android is native free sideloading without adding any security holes

[young pecan]

6 to 8 months for the DOD?

When the actual scene teams usually have prototypes within a month?

The fuck is the DOD doing?

[astral haven]

prototypes of what tho

like the problem is that there are a crazy number of android devices

and most of them take a few hundred man hours to break into

same for the ios devices

except there are only around 10-20 ios versions to deal with instead of the 10s of thousands of different androids that exist

[young pecan]

shrugs I'm talking about the 'mainline' android releases, not all the misc ones.

How is the DOD taking so much longer than scene groups? Most groups out there will actually have prototypes for root access within a month or so.

It's the following months that it becomes stable to actually use.

But actually locating an entry can't actually take the DOD that long.

And hell, 8 months is a long time for a full usable exploit after discovery.

[astral haven]

root access without a password is a million times harder than root access with a password lol

[astral haven]

here im talking about getting data off of a locked device for evidence

[young pecan]

That explains that.

I was talking about creating a root exploit.

Very fast with the right team.

[astral haven]

a root isnt a security problem

lel

it may be a profitability problem for the cellphone maker but its no problem for the end user

[young pecan]

It can be an indirect problem.

Direct access? Yeah nah, a LOT of pen testers spend time making sure that shit doesn't happen.

But user stupidity is easily the best exploit of all.

Best way to exploit dumbasses is by giving them too much access to stuff they don't know how to use responsibly.

[astral haven]

yea thats the big advantage of android rooting

[zenith sonnet]

What's this garbage, a tablet with a stand?

[neat oriole]

Nothing wrong with a tablet with a stand

[zenith sonnet]

Wonder how much that stand costs

[neat oriole]

It’s included

It’s an AIO

They’re basically all just big tablets with stands

[zenith sonnet]

Ooooof

[vast moss]

I don't think iMacs have touch input, or at least as of a few years ago they didn't.

[zenith sonnet]

1500$ for a tablet with 8 GiB of shared memory and 256 GiB of flash storage? Damn

Magic Keyboard, and Magic Mouse.

[neat oriole]

Nah no touch input

[zenith sonnet]

Are they serious? Lol

[vast moss]

So it's basically a big tablet on a stand but missing one key tablet feature
by this point, really not a tablet

[neat oriole]

Sure

[astral haven]

its a desktop

wait

uh

wheres the camera?

oh nvm

[neat oriole]

On the front of the display

[vast moss]

I know; we used to have iMacs here. Not sure if we still use them though.
I also used to use an all-in-one PC myself, but I haven't touched it in years

[astral haven]

aio pcs are generally pretty bad since you usually end up getting a big laptop inside a shitty monitor instead of a small desktop inside a monitor

[zenith sonnet]

299$ for a "Magic" keyboard??
It better do actual magic for that price

[astral haven]

it has touchid built in at least

i thought that was pretty good

[neat oriole]

Idk why the Touch ID isn’t integrated into the power button or something

[astral haven]

that makes too much sense

[neat oriole]

Is this xeanoa’s first Apple product briefing

Although to be fair Apple M1 is pretty decent

[astral haven]

its alright

[neat oriole]

And the display is pretty nice

[zenith sonnet]

All I see is stuff that looks like it should be half the price at most

[astral haven]

🤷‍♂️ its apple

[zenith sonnet]

What the hell is so great about that keyboard that makes it worth 300$?

[neat oriole]

A MacBook Air is $999

So for 300 more you get a bigger screen

Basically

And more connectivity

[astral haven]

its prettyish

[zenith sonnet]

There's also an ipad without the stand for 400$ less

400 dollar stand...

[neat oriole]

An iPad is also quite different in terms of use case

[astral haven]

also alot smaller

[neat oriole]

I feel like people get caught up on Apple pricing so much they overlook actual flaws with the company and its product

[astral haven]

and alot better looking

the imac is terribly ugly lol

[neat oriole]

I think it’s fine

[astral haven]

its like a c series product without the actually being cheaper part

[neat oriole]

Chin gives me an area to brace the USB ports

Instead of touching the screen

[astral haven]

uh

have you heard of a bezel?

computers currently need bezels to work

or even if you dont want a bezel, make your hinge stronger than the insertion force of the usb lel

on the imac i have its absolutely not a problem to just plug in the usb devices

same with all of the aios ive tried

[neat oriole]

It’s not a pointless design feature

[astral haven]

i mean

it just looks very ugly

[neat oriole]

Design is subjective

[astral haven]

to some extent

[neat oriole]

Not really, aesthetics are inherently subjective

[astral haven]

design is not equal to aesthetics

and its poorly designed

[neat oriole]

Ok but when you said it just looks very ugly you were referring to it’s aesthetics design no?

[astral haven]

not only

design is part of the appearance of the product

[neat oriole]

Well apart from aesthetics it either works or doesn’t

[astral haven]

aesthetics + design = finished product

you can make 2 entirely different looking devices that do the same thing with the same aesthetic

the aesthetics are fine

its the same as the iphone 12 and new ipad pros

it just looks awful cause of the poor design

they should have made it more reminiscent of the ipad

in terms of even bezels

if they want to go that route

[neat oriole]

It’s a classic design

[astral haven]

wut

not at all

not a single imac that came before it had a flat back

[neat oriole]

The front

The chin

[astral haven]

the chin is larger than any previous imac

[neat oriole]

?

[astral haven]

remember chin is separate from the bezel

[neat oriole]

No?

Chin is just the bottom part of the bezel

[astral haven]

no

the chin is under the bezel

for example the ipad has no chin

[neat oriole]

It has a chin it’s just uniform in size to the sides and forehead

[astral haven]

wut

the new imac has a smaller bezel sure

but it has a larger chin

so it looks worse

thats not an aesthetic decision thats a design one
and its objectively bad

[neat oriole]

?

[astral haven]

"No, the Touch ID keyboards won't work with your non-M1 Mac"
🤦‍♂️

[neat oriole]

Why is it objectively bad

In what way does the iMac function worse with a large chin

[astral haven]

its worse than the previous one for no reason

[neat oriole]

How would it function better without a chin

The guys don’t change

[astral haven]

in the previous mac the chin housed the apple logo

so now it serves no purpose

[neat oriole]

If anything the display would generate more heat if the Mobo was placed behind it

[astral haven]

and is just a tumor along the bottom

yea thats bs

[neat oriole]

The heat from the display would likely affect thermals*

[astral haven]

thats not how it works

the heat generated by the display is along the edges unless these are miniled which i dont remember them being

and uh

[neat oriole]

I don’t see how this has anything to do with objectivity

[astral haven]

its dead space

[neat oriole]

So?

[astral haven]

like while you can argue about aesthetics

[neat oriole]

Negative space is a thing

[astral haven]

dead space is not negative space

negative space contrasts something

dead space does not

[neat oriole]

Yeah it’s contrasting the display

[astral haven]

no its not

[neat oriole]

And it’s colour matched to the stand

[astral haven]

that makes it even worse

[neat oriole]

How?

[astral haven]

you have no contrast with whats above it

you have zero contrast with whats below it

theres nothing in the middle as an accent or anything

its just

dead

[neat oriole]

[astral haven]

this is just a miss from apple

[neat oriole]

From your subjective perspective

[astral haven]

i told you how it is objectively poorly designed

[neat oriole]

You didn’t

[astral haven]

and you havent been able to address a single one of my arguments lol

[neat oriole]

Looks aren’t objective

[astral haven]

design is

[neat oriole]

Neither is design

There’s several schools of thought

[astral haven]

it is possible to create objectively bad design

design is the engineering aspect

aesthetics is the art aspect

[neat oriole]

No engineering is the engineering aspect

[astral haven]

engineering aspect of the appearance

[neat oriole]

Here’s a mechanical package, build a box around it

Tadaaaa

[astral haven]

thats not design as it relates to appearance

[neat oriole]

I’m pretty sure design relates to appearance

[astral haven]

yes and this isnt that

[neat oriole]

Otherwise I’m in the wrong field

[astral haven]

appearance is made of 2 parts

aesthetic
design

[neat oriole]

I still don’t know why it’s objectively bad to have a chin

[astral haven]

aesthetic is the part the artist has control over
design is the part constrained by physics on one end and manufactureability on the other

what does the chin accomplish for the looks of the device

besides nothing

what part of the aesthetic is it advancing

[neat oriole]

It’s an accent contrast piece?

[astral haven]

contrasting what

[neat oriole]

Builds continuity with the rest of the design?

[astral haven]

and dont say the display it cant contrast something that could be brigher and darker than it at the same time

and no its absolutely not continuous with the rest of the device

it looks added on as an afterthought

[neat oriole]

That’s your subjective take

[astral haven]

contrast is objective

continuous is also objective

afterthought part sure is an opinion tho

[neat oriole]

Explain what is in your opinion contrast

[astral haven]

color on the opposite side of middle grey nearby

[neat oriole]

What if I told you it’s not just limited to colour

[astral haven]

depends on your definition of color

[neat oriole]

Colour is the wavelength of light that’s reflected?

[astral haven]

but i use the definition of color that includes luminance since i come from a computer background

not any more

[neat oriole]

On a physical device it is

[astral haven]

🤷‍♂️ pedantics

[neat oriole]

Not talking about a screen that emits light

[astral haven]

well you were the one saying the chin tumor contrasted the screen 🤷‍♂️

[neat oriole]

Well it’s not a screen so it’s contrast to a screen

You either like the chin or you don’t

[astral haven]

here is a way to mess with the aesthetics that hides the poor design

[young pecan]

I mean...

[neat oriole]

This doesn’t improve it in any way

[young pecan]

It's got some hot garbage features.

Headphone jack, somehow no SD reader. Why?

Also no USB Type A?

[astral haven]

at least the chin has a function now

[young pecan]

Bruh, not everyone wants a dongle chain.

[astral haven]

it holds the apple logo

[shadow minnow]

Objectively poor designed does not exist lol, then everyone would hate it, I don’t think it’s subjectively good either, but objectively it’s based on personal opinion, and not really good or bad.

[young pecan]

What's even the intended purpose of this machine?

[neat oriole]

I wouldn’t say holding an Apple logo means it has a function

[astral haven]

no ikas

[young pecan]

It's that thin that the CPU must be garbage.

[neat oriole]

Glorified Netflix machine

[young pecan]

Bruh.

[neat oriole]

M1 is pretty decent tho

[astral haven]

there are objective parts of design thanks to how human brains work

[young pecan]

No really tho. is it M1 or something? Surprising power?

[astral haven]

its m1

[young pecan]

Can it do valuable things and not overheat?

[shadow minnow]

How are there people that like this design then, if it’s objectively bad?

[neat oriole]

It’s not for professionals no

[young pecan]

...

[neat oriole]

But some light video editing will be fine

[astral haven]

you can like something designed poorly

[young pecan]

OBJECTIVE GARBAGE.

[astral haven]

i love the looks of my sager

[neat oriole]

I mean depends who it’s for

[young pecan]

Bruh.

How much does it cost?

[shadow minnow]

Too much

[neat oriole]

$1300

[young pecan]

So buy a custom HTPC with a graphics card.

Got it.

[astral haven]

for same specs as 999 mb air

[neat oriole]

Not everyone wants to do that

[young pecan]

Garbage design is garbage.

Prebuilts are better.

NUCs are better.

[neat oriole]

Idk if NUCs are better

[shadow minnow]

The thing still is that you can run macos and windows on this, but only windows on normal PCs

[neat oriole]

I’d put them about the same tier

[astral haven]

nah

there are alot better nucs

at least speed wise

[young pecan]

NUCs can support graphics cards.

[shadow minnow]

Although iPad or MacBook Air with external display sound lot better

[young pecan]

This thing has no hope of that.

[neat oriole]

Yeah but external displays are kinda expensive

[astral haven]

uh

[neat oriole]

Especially a decent 4K one

[astral haven]

not $600 expensive lol

[young pecan]

^

[shadow minnow]

Well, 4K ones many times yes

[young pecan]

Basically apple released object garbage and now everyone is excited over it.

Coolio.

[shadow minnow]

I am not excited over it, just saying the design is not objectively garbage, although I don’t like it too.
And the ram and ssd pricing really sucks too

[astral haven]

my dad literally just bought a 4k display with a minimum of 2x the contrast (we dont know the contrast of the imac panel yet)
for $320

[young pecan]

Wouldn't even be annoyed if they made it slightly fatter and made the back out of fins to enable passive.

[shadow minnow]

iPad looks like a lot better device, and actually quite a good value

[young pecan]

Hot garbage tho, can't be upgraded because Apple, no real use outside of google.

[astral haven]

his other option was a thunderbolt monitor with similar specs but with a built in hub for everything for $600

same 2x or more contrast

[shadow minnow]

The GPU of this thing can run quite a lot of stuff too.

[astral haven]

quite alot of stuff*

[young pecan]

Of course, 3D minesweeper counts I suppose.

[astral haven]

*as long as its in the app store

[young pecan]

Consider me not impressed regardless.

[astral haven]

you are sol on any serious game

[young pecan]

Hasn't even got a real GPU, an APU. ._.

[astral haven]

serious as in graphically demanding game

[shadow minnow]

Well, the GPU has better performance then many PCs. Now not saying the iMac is good, but you will be able to play quite a lot of things on it.

[young pecan]

[astral haven]

its 50ish percentile for pcs

[shadow minnow]

Yes, an APU, that’s like 10 times better than the intel one, in terms of GPU performance

[astral haven]

since about 50% of pcs are dx12

and uh

nah ikas

[young pecan]

I suppose having any GPU over not being able to afford a discreet GPU because scalping counts as better than 50%. :L

[astral haven]

the m1 igpu is pretty bad compared to the intel one

[shadow minnow]

No lol

[astral haven]

it has some great acceleration for a few things that intel doesnt have

[shadow minnow]

Intel iGPU is 3 times worse than GPU from 2017 MacBook Pro

[young pecan]

Which had a dedicated GPU.

[astral haven]

the 2017 mbp has alot of gpus

the weakest dgpus from that laptop are worse than even last gen intel ones

[shadow minnow]

And M1 is better than that dedicate GPU

[astral haven]

in what

[young pecan]

[astral haven]

remember

[young pecan]

Thanks to app acceleration.

[neat oriole]

It’s 500 nits peak brightness and supports P3 wide colour

[young pecan]

In very specific circumstances.

[shadow minnow]

Not only, the performance overall is too

[astral haven]

hardware accelerated tasks cant be used as a benchmark of igpu performance

[neat oriole]

I can’t fine one that doesn’t cost 2K and has a brightness over 400 nits

[young pecan]

^

[shadow minnow]

Normal benchmarks too

[young pecan]

Well then, I think Ares found the one way the display actually wins.

How 'bout that.

[astral haven]

brightness doesnt matter if it looks dimmer

and perceived brightness depends on contrast

🤷‍♂️

[young pecan]

Mmmmmm, hard no.

Accuracy is good for darkened rooms.

[shadow minnow]

But when sun shines that does not matter, and you need more brightness

[astral haven]

actually thats not true

[shadow minnow]

^

[young pecan]

Good for HDR production, though the use of this specific device is eh.

Need a GPU to do video editing in any real time.

[astral haven]

actually no the m1 has pretty good acceleration

[young pecan]

Especially when you're actually able to afford to record real HDR.

[astral haven]

its almost on the level of the intel 10th gen chips

[young pecan]

Dude.

[astral haven]

but tiger lake is just another level

[shadow minnow]

It really does not, the GPU literally performs better than dGPU iMac had before, although most likely unlike the iMac Pro one

[young pecan]

If you're recording HDR you're also probably recording in 4K.

[astral haven]

ikas

[young pecan]

M1 can't quite do that.

[astral haven]

dont compare to the macs

apple was using amd for dgpus lel

and they were sandbagging the intel chips

[young pecan]

Macs are historically garbage, IkaS...

In so many ways.

So, so many.

[shadow minnow]

It depends, the value is, but for example longetivity...

[young pecan]

The value is about the same as making a Hack Pro, but alright.

[shadow minnow]

And also, subjective thing, but I tbh prefer macos over windows

[astral haven]

a $200 pc that is 10 years old can be fully updated

[young pecan]

Hack pro, just said it.

[astral haven]

a $2k imac that is 10 years old cant be

that aint longevity

[young pecan]

On top of that the cooling is hot garbage and you can't actually fix it.

Means you get worse performance for what you buy.

So...

[shadow minnow]

Laptops however you can. Be sure that will last, unlike many 1000$ ones stopping to work after a year

[young pecan]

Yeah yeah nah.

Not how that works, dude.

[shadow minnow]

And desktops are still pretty bad value, but M1 laptops not really

[astral haven]

i literally have an imac that is across the room from me that got decomissioned cause it couldnt get updated

[young pecan]

You can't find replacement parts outside of people like Louis Rossmann, and if you go to the Genius Bar...

They'll say the logic board needs replacing even though the SMC might be fucked.

[shadow minnow]

But you usually don’t need them

[young pecan]

$5 fix.

[neat oriole]

Ok I found a BenQ that has similar specs except it’s only peak 350 nits and it’s 1k for a monitor

[astral haven]

uh

[young pecan]

$1300 price tag.

[astral haven]

ikas

[young pecan]

^

Dude, whut the fuck?

Small parts on Apple shit fail ALL the time.

Just the amount of SMCs that die and can't be replaced...

Fuck.

[shadow minnow]

Idk, nothing failed on this 2017 MacBook at all

And its running like 3 and half years now

[young pecan]

Any PPBUS failure can just destroy the poor thing.

And you can't actually replace it easily when it dies.

Because even though getting an SMC is easy, you can't just flash the software off one onto another because it'll be a jihad and kill itself.

Means that a VAST majority of the time a simple $5 fix can't be done.

How tf is that longevity?

[astral haven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8
apple longevity at its finest

[neat oriole]

Yeah I think it’s safe to say if you were to buy a similarly specced out 4K display to the iMac built in you’ll be spending close to 1k on that monitor

[young pecan]

Good guy Louis.

[neat oriole]

Yeah right to repair is good

[young pecan]

^

[shadow minnow]

Just that you usually don’t need it.
Still, the MacBook Air with M1 is imo quite a good value, with battery life, performance and its price, unlike iMac
And also iPad with the mini led and M1

[astral haven]

im trying to find the "small percentage of customers" meme

[young pecan]

Listen here, IkaS.

That's shit reasoning.

No, do not.

Do not pass go.

[astral haven]

where rossman reads all the apple excuses for repeated design failures

[young pecan]

Do not collect $200.

Jesus fuck, man.

[astral haven]

isnt the ipad microled?

also idk why they downgraded to a worse microled than they could get with oled

[neat oriole]

I mean it all comes down to the user and what they’re looking for. If they’re not a power user, and only occasionally does some light photo/video editing, the iMac with its amazing screen is perfectly fine

[shadow minnow]

They called it minileds but the leds are really small, 10 000 leds in 13” display

[astral haven]

ah

so its miniled

fuk

that really sucks

microled is an entirely different tech

the way the leds are attached to the substrate is different

and prevents the leds from dying like tiny leds normally do

[shadow minnow]

Yeah, but afaik even the smallest micro leds, even though it would be nice to have them, are too big for ppi iPad has

[astral haven]

yea thats not true

we have 1000 ppi microled only screens (no lcd layer)

[neat oriole]

It’s a good screen and won’t suffer from burn in so

[astral haven]

and there are 10k ppi black and white microleds (which could be used as a light source for an lcd

[shadow minnow]

Yeah, but the iPad or MacBook, even if you need to do some edditing, final cut performance on MacBook...

[neat oriole]

I’m sure they’ll update the 16” MacBook

[astral haven]

the imac screen is alright but its not amazing

its still sub 1.5k:1 🤷‍♂️

[shadow minnow]

Yeah, but I guess they want to release sth like M1X before or sth

[astral haven]

yea the 12 core is coming

[neat oriole]

I mean if you buy a separate one with similar specs from Dell or BenQ it’s like close to 1k so

[shadow minnow]

The iMac is pretty bad value compared to other M1 products

[neat oriole]

Idk what $300 4k monitor is 10 bit and supports p3

Not to mention they all max out at 350 nits

Compared to the 500 nits on the iMac

[astral haven]

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07MQBDY91
4k
hdr certified
144hz
actually calibrated
still can just barely fit a 11th gen nuc with 8gb and 256gb in the price

[zenith sonnet]

The trade-off is probably that the display in the iMac has similar reaction times as LCDs from 2005 had

[neat oriole]

Still only 400 nits peak brightness

Well 350 but display HDRn’t 400

[shadow minnow]

Also 11th gen nuc will be behind for some things, but the egpu support is nice

[astral haven]

11th gen nuc is gonna be unilaterally faster

unless you really really need macos

[shadow minnow]

Not for GPU

[astral haven]

if you install macos on the nuc sure itll be slower

the intel igpu

even the worst one

is faster than the m1

[shadow minnow]

Doubt that

Don’t have time to look for exact benchmarks rn, but in Tflops M1 wins too (which does not reflect that much on real life performance though)

[astral haven]

yea the whole problem is the whole
uh
not running things

[old marlin]

why is this discussion still existant

[neat oriole]

Isn’t Apple M1 better at emulating windows than Microsoft’s own arm processors running windows native?

[shadow minnow]

Afaik yes

[astral haven]

yea

[old marlin]

if you NEED macos and you NEED a GOOD display

the 24" imac is worth it

[astral haven]

the m1 has a bunch of x86 instructions

[neat oriole]

Yeah

[old marlin]

the middle model that is

otherwise it is not

[astral haven]

unlike windows for arm which is native arm

[old marlin]

the m1 does not have a bunch of x86 instructions

their interpreter has

btw

[shadow minnow]

Parallels now support windows on M1 too, Pog

[old marlin]

are there any non-sucky smart wallplugs

[astral haven]

no yama the processor itself natively handles x86 instructions

[neat oriole]

Gib source

[old marlin]

Even if

[neat oriole]

I’ve looked it up before with zero results

[old marlin]

Not the full set