🔌│tech

[proud nacelle]

I could have sworn there was O_DIRECT or something

[astral haven]

What you could do is only cache the data

[proud nacelle]

There's also cache on the disks, but that can be turned off too.

As in store it in tmpfs or something?

[astral haven]

Just buy more ram

[proud nacelle]

Yeah that could work

[ashen spindle]

no cache needed if you just buy SLC drives

[proud nacelle]

Was talking HDD caches

But true

[astral haven]

Idea of caching is making the data not be in multiple places

If it's only in ram and you can set 2v vdimm on your motherboard in hardware the data can be erased very quickly :P

[ashen spindle]

to more important topics, the shader for my command prompt is broken, anyone with HLSL knowledge here? 😛

[proud nacelle]

Noted. Thank you for enlightening me.

Intel ME is still evil though, right?

[astral haven]

Define evil

[ashen spindle]

it has less features than amd can offer so far, but I would otherwise call them equal

[astral haven]

Nah

Different

[proud nacelle]

Well. Intel ME runs Minix, does it not?

[astral haven]

No

Well

There are two intel me

[proud nacelle]

There are? TIL.

[astral haven]

There's the processor one and the bios one

Processor one is still fully black box

Bios one was minix in the past

[proud nacelle]

Ok. But Intel ME is still less secure or well, more shady than PSP... right?

[astral haven]

Bios me is

But bios me is disableable

In fact it's only enableable on some special boards

[proud nacelle]

That's Libreboot, isn't it? Not many supported boards though

[astral haven]

No

You need a q or a special c series chipset to enable it

[proud nacelle]

So what is the one in the chip then?

Is it TEE?

[astral haven]

No it's Also called the intel management engine

[proud nacelle]

I meant is it a TEE

Sorry

As in does it do the same thing kinda like PSP/TrustZone?

Or is there more to it?

[astral haven]

Psp is similar to the processor management engine

Trustzone is not a processor

Trustzone is a way of securing a processor

Intel me (processor not bios) and psp are dedicated processors

Both are blackboxes

Trustzone is basically firmware

[proud nacelle]

Perfect then.

[astral haven]

(Extreme simplification)

[proud nacelle]

That's all I need to know. Thank you again for having the patience of dealing with me.

[astral haven]

Anyways neither vendors security processor has ever been compromised

They are outright inaccessible

And probably always will be

[proud nacelle]

Right. At least with TrustZone, that can be turned off. But, as you told me, it's actually useful.

[astral haven]

Well no

Trustzone can be bypassed but it's still in the design of the processor

[proud nacelle]

I guess I didn't say what I meant to say

But yes that's what I meant

[ashen spindle]

oh wow, I looked it up bc of this discussion, looks like the latest threadripper pro series also got the SME/SEV features

thats cool

[astral haven]

yea

tr pro is straight up epyc

its not in any way threadripper

its fully locked 😦

[ashen spindle]

well it is marketing wise to not upset shareholders and server customers 😛

[astral haven]

no?

they are pretty clear about it?

only downside is no multiprocessor

[ashen spindle]

then idk, WEPYC for workstation-epyc would've been a nice name

[astral haven]

and deprioritized support

🤷‍♂️ its threadripper for pros

so all of the consumer features got ripped out

[ashen spindle]

maybe it's so different teams handle it, support wise etc.?

[astral haven]

🤷‍♂️ amd doesnt have multiple support teams 😛

[ashen spindle]

they are getting bigger 😛

[astral haven]

i have a friend who runs a few epyc servers and has a ryzen desktop processor and got one of the same support people when he had an issue

he had alot of issues

he doesnt use epyc any more

epyc is really useless for any of the hardware people

you have to use it as a disposable unit with proper failover

[ashen spindle]

well, no other option depending on what you need/want

pcie4 on x86? epyc

[astral haven]

intel is just expensive

nah the same dude upgraded to intel servers

[ashen spindle]

well, that is proven as intel dropped prices by a ton after epyc started adoption

[astral haven]

pcie 4 is only available for people under ndas

lel

[ashen spindle]

on intel yeah, hence if you are not one of them you need to go epyc for that 😛

[reef patrol]

B550 or X570?
Yes I do.

https://tenor.com/view/listen-here-you-little-shit-bird-meme-bird-listen-here-you-little-shit-gif-19221308

[astral haven]

eh if you have a server, its pretty easy to get ice lake for it

[cursive summit]

https://youtu.be/gb7ta5CMBn0

[proud nacelle]

that picture i recall

[cursive summit]

Hm

[ashen spindle]

maybe now

[astral haven]

you just gotta "contact us"

[ashen spindle]

but not when epyc first came out lmao

[astral haven]

when epyc first came out there wasnt pcie 4

only way to get pcie 4 was power

[ashen spindle]

ok, second gen epyc

still far ahead of nda'd ice lake

[astral haven]

🤷‍♂️ second gen epyc launch was rocky asf

also 3-4 months is really not that long

[ashen spindle]

errm, august 2019 for rome launch, ice lake this month probably, that is a bit more

and the nda'd pre-release options are avaiable on both sides

[astral haven]

ice lake has existed outside of facebook for a year now

[ashen spindle]

sure, they were sampling ice lake in 2019 but nowhere outside of T1 customers

[astral haven]

facebook had ice first but smaller peeps could get ice begining of 2020

[ashen spindle]

that would still be half a year off then if we give amd a 3-4 month lead too

• the recent nvida offerings could only use epyc since they can't sell pre-release ice lake obviously

[astral haven]

nah amd announced epyc while sampling to t1

[ashen spindle]

nope, they had twitter on stage saying they already had the chips for weeks/months and were using them in live servers

idk if there was others too

[astral haven]

"while sampling to t1"

facebook had ice ages ago

im talking about "contact us" availability

amd had that in august and intel had it before q1 finished (no exact date given)

[ashen spindle]

quick intermission: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/m2wqkf/updated_agesa_coming_for_intermittent_usb/

lets hope it fixes the wooting issues

but yeah, I wish I could read the old semiaccurate stories, I'm pretty sure charlie has somewhat accurate dates when those chips were actually available

[astral haven]

What?

[ashen spindle]

https://www.semiaccurate.com/ not familiar?

[astral haven]

I am familiar

But I've never heard of semiaccurate being correct

[zenith sonnet]

AGESA 1.2.0.1 is apparently amazing for memory OC

[astral haven]

Until someone else leaks the data

[ashen spindle]

I mean, I don't have a subscription so I can't tell for sure but it seems to be at least >50%

[astral haven]

They are only correct after someone else is 🤷

[ashen spindle]

not denying it, but if that's the case I'm not familiar with the places that get it earlier

[astral haven]

I know that they sourced their ice lake leak from brutus

[ashen spindle]

yup, never heard of them before lmao

[astral haven]

Admin of overclocking discord

Business is small scale but very fast hosting

And he didn't leak his own chip

He only posted a pic of a chip that he got from unnamed sources

[ashen spindle]

cant comment on what I have no clue about

[astral haven]

I try to follow the leak scene as closely as possible

[pale sigil]

Can't seem to oc my cpu anymore

[ashen spindle]

oh god did you kill another part of your pc

[astral haven]

And 50% leak accuracy is worse than my guesswork lmao

[pale sigil]

No

I just thought hmm

Let's see what ocing is like

[astral haven]

How are you overclocking?

And what cpu

[pale sigil]

5600x

Ryzen master for now as that worked in the past

[astral haven]

Zen 3 isn't overclockable

All you can do to improve performance is mess with power limits

[ashen spindle]

ram/IF OC is what you should try rather than simple core OC

[astral haven]

Yup

[zenith sonnet]

I really hope that AMD can do something similar with memory

[astral haven]

Not possible

Unless amd starts making memory

Which they did do in the past

But it was awful

[proper crystal]

Eh... they sold their branding for memory. They didn't really make it.

Not even like say Corsair makes memory.

[astral haven]

Amd doesn't make processors either

But they can do qc for them

That's all they would need to do

[zenith sonnet]

Of course it's possible

Even if you don't make the memory

Like, build an advanced training feature with error detection and the ability to write to BIOS into the IMC, for example

[astral haven]

That would take hours to run and years to develop

And presets would break every 3 months

[pale sigil]

Using apple headphones rn

So damn comfortable

Perfect fit

[proper crystal]

They design them. Corsair doesn't design memory ICs, only maybe PCB and headspreader.
And yet, AMD's involvement with Radeon branded memory was even lesser than Corsair's with theirs

[astral haven]

🤷

Corsair does alot of testing

And they don't put in the spd

You can have identical spds with different ics

And it's dumb

[atomic wharf]

G.Skill is still the best imo they are stable as a rock and many of them use Bdie

[wheat plume]

https://youtu.be/0pPuKZqDjVk

[ashen spindle]

help my cmd cat is broken

[astral haven]

Bdie is rare now

Everyone is using rev e, n, and b

[wheat plume]

150Mbps OR Gigabytes per second

[misty pier]

i want 150 gigabyes per second

[wheat plume]

same..

[misty pier]

i can watch everything in 420k

[zenith sonnet]

We should start measuring speed in GB per hour instead of Mbps
At least that figure is relatable

[analog aspen]

Quintosh having fun with the cmd

[analog aspen]

looking for ways to disable the MSI in hardware drivers now

anybody familiar with this let me know ;-;

[zenith sonnet]

Was MSI the old or new thing? What was the other called again?

Also, I think you just need a different driver

[analog aspen]

Message-Signaled Interrupts

I guess the default is called line-based?

anyways I don't even know if it's really better to turn that on xD

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000125194/windows-10-task-manager-reports-100-disk-utilization-with-msi-mode-enabled

all I can find is this

I looked around regedit and found like 12 PCI VEN_ xxx folders

[zenith sonnet]

Ideally you want only MSI based drivers

That 100% gotta be a bug with a specific driver

[analog aspen]

each VEN_xxx folder have a different MSISupported key

changing the key from 0 to 1 supposedly enable it

but I don't wanna do that before I know exactly wtf I'm doing

since there are 10+ folders in there

xD

okay I found it thanks to this guide

https://www.underealm.com/tech/2019/05/nvidia-drivers-and-msi-support-in-windows/#:~:text=Switch to MSI.-,Enable MSI,a positive or negative value.&text=If the value you see,you should switch to MSI.

can I only change the graphic card driver?

nothing else?

mouse? keyboard?

[pale sigil]

"fun" is a foreign concept for him

[analog aspen]

he's just nerdy. I do that a lot actually

okay the regedit change didn't do anything. device still working properly but IRQ doesn't go negative

pain

how tf 2080Ti doesn't work in MSI mode

[astral haven]

Thought it requires msi-x

[analog aspen]

what's msi-x

anyways restarted the 2nd time it's negative now. Jesus christ spooked the shit out of me

how come a 2019 device can't MSI

[astral haven]

Messaged signal interrupts for pcie?

Oh it's a 3.0 feature

So yea the 2080ti uses that

[analog aspen]

I downloaded the tool just now and only my Intel Chipset SATA/PCIe RST controller and Intel Wireless support MSI-x

still no idea what it is but

[astral haven]

It's a way to send communication packets over pcie

Aka not data

But doesn't require a specific pin, it just uses the pcie data bus

What are you trying to do?

Yea you can disable msi

[analog aspen]

its a long story. keep it short I mentioned about wanting to get Razer Viper 8kHz polling for League, but worry about game compatibility (stutters it's having right now). Partly because 8kHz polling hit the CPU pretty hard, and League is CPU-bound game because it can only use 2 cores

Dag said enabling MSI for my devices should free up the CPU for 8kHz polling

[astral haven]

No

Msi is required for pcie devices and speeds up communication between the pcie device and the system

Just change the affinity of league

Set it so that it isn't using core 0

[analog aspen]

using Task manager or Lasso

[astral haven]

Either or

Also overclock your ram

[analog aspen]

what's the difference between them

[analog aspen]

ye I did. It's a treacherous path tho ngl

[astral haven]

Wut

[analog aspen]

cause I use intel

so no preset calculation

[astral haven]

Uh

The preset calculation isn't practical for ryzen...

You can get way better performance by just following the integral guide lel

[analog aspen]

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md

oh yeah this

I used this

anyways can I just turn on MSI mode on all devices

including "Synaptics SMBus Driver" (no idea why it's in my desktop tho)

[astral haven]

I'd recommend not touching it

Also

What stability tool did you use for the ram oc?

[analog aspen]

Buncha memtest.exe

Cause I have 32gb and 4 DIMM slots mobo (not the best config for RAM OC)

Maxxmem

And Thaiphoon

I gave up OC-ing because I OC’d the RAM first, then when I OC’d CPU it caused the RAM to become unstable as well

It takes lots of time so I put it off till now

Current setup is really safe 5.2ghz 1.32v 3200mhz cl14 1.3v

9900k & bdie memory running at XMP

I only downvolted a bit

[astral haven]

Occt

Memtest doesn't work

[astral haven]

Also 1.32 set or 1.32 get?

Also also a 9900k can't be stable on that in avx lel

[zenith sonnet]

B-die is temperature sensitive and its ideal range is ~30-40°C.

I noticed that already. Damn you, Noctua

[astral haven]

noctua?

noctua doesnt make ram heatsinks?

[zenith sonnet]

Yeah, but fans that I need

Been going with barely any cooling for over a year now :p

[astral haven]

get a pwm co from arctic in the size you need (p12 for 120 or p14 for 140)

[zenith sonnet]

I want my NF-A12x25 chromax
Not gonna settle for anything less

[astral haven]

p12 co is slightly better and alot cheaper

[zenith sonnet]

Certainly is cheaper

And louder

It may be a close match to the A12x25 in performance

But I sure as hell don't expect it retain those metrics even half as long as the Noctua fan

Then I got 8 times the noise?

I got 3 fans, that cost a grand total of 10€ for the pack of three and top out at 1100 RPM :p

Bitfenix Spectre or whatever they were called
Glorified plastic waste

I actually need 12, 6 per rig

It could have been 18, but by the time the O11D XL distro plate came out I already had a res in the third rad slot

It's in the vertical slot

Rads are top and bottom

When I built this thing, it was 'Noctua fans next quarter'
Just needed something to pass a few months, tops

Over a year later it's still 'next quarter'

Don't have a better pic right now

I lied

Pre-tubing 😄

Anyway, with these shitty fans my VII still never even hits 50°C, so I'm good with waiting

Sure, might lose 50MHz max CPU boost freq due to the water nearing 40°C after hours of gaming, but eh, could be worse

Only sucks for the memory, since there close to no airflow in the case

Hits over 50°C at 1.48V stress testing with HCI 😦

[proper crystal]

Are you using 120 or 140mm fans on the rad?

Oh, 120.

On the rad, Noctua 120s have the edge, but for the case Arctics are just as good and way more economical.

[zenith sonnet]

The case doesn't really have any fan slots

Getting those rads was a trip, though...

[proper crystal]

Given you have two 360 rads, I think you'll be just fine with Arctic P12s. They do get louder than Noctuas at top RPM, but given the cooling potential you should be more than fine capping them at low noise and still getting more than enough cooling.

And Arctic P14s are in a league of their own.

[zenith sonnet]

Iunno
Didn't know better?

[proper crystal]

As for longevity, Arctic offers longer warranty than Noctua, and I haven't had any problems with Arctic fans, ever. Even from what I heard, the only failures are with fans not working out of the box, which is easy to RMA.

[zenith sonnet]

But in all fairness, the huge res looks cool

This unfortunately released half a year to late
https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-quantum-reflection-pc-o11d-xl-d5-pwm-d-rgb-plexi

Could switch things around...
But 700€ for two them?

[analog aspen]

@Dag#5457 @astral haven not related to 8kHz polling but MSI mode + Lasso made my games giga-responsive lol.
The gain is almost as noticeable as going from 144Hz to 240Hz

If not more

Thank you guys

Maybe if I finish OC-ing my rig to the max it’s possible to get stable 240fps in League

[astral haven]

you check if you are actually stable with occt?

[analog aspen]

XMP is definitely stable

I haven’t touched the OC or plan to tho

[astral haven]

occt also does cpu

[analog aspen]

It’s takes a really looping amount of time

[astral haven]

and gpu

[analog aspen]

I can’t OC GPU jack

[astral haven]

eh max out your memory on the gpu

[analog aspen]

I use the Curve auto OC of MSI Adter burner

[astral haven]

ah

[analog aspen]

And +978 memory

[astral haven]

ah nice

[analog aspen]

But when I check ingame

The GPU max frame goes up

Meaning

I think GPU OC cause me more harm than good

It’d stable because it never cause crash

But also fluctuate frames

[astral haven]

so you arent stable

you are using 20 or 30 series right?

[analog aspen]

Also League is CPU bound (I only play league btw)

Ye 2080ti

Open card

[astral haven]

so yea it has ecc memory (sorta)

so you will not crash when your memory is unstable

you will lose a bit of performance

[analog aspen]

Uhh how to know if my memory is stable then

If not for crashing

[astral haven]

yep

its fun isnt it

basically you need to use a super consistent benchmark

and bring your memory up until the performance starts decreasing

[analog aspen]

I use the Haven benchmark

[astral haven]

yea no

thats not gonna work

heaven is very very weak

[analog aspen]

At least it still takes less time than other parts xD

[astral haven]

youd be surprised

ocing my ram was faster than my gpu ram

[analog aspen]

Wtf

[astral haven]

it took a looong time to find the optimal memory clock

[analog aspen]

Well there are 2 clocks

Ram has... 30?

[astral haven]

cause also there are different timings in the gpu memory but you dont control it

yes but you can get the full performance of your ram by following a few instructions

gpu memory is a ton of trial and error

[analog aspen]

Hmm I guess if you’re moving +5 every time and benchmark every time

[astral haven]

yup

[analog aspen]

Also what do you think about the Curve thing of MSI Afterburner

I think the performance being inconsistent have to do with it

[astral haven]

im too lazy to bother with manual on my new gpu

on my 2080ti i did manually do it but i cba now

[analog aspen]

At least you managed to get lastest Gen

Right now the only option is to rip off prebuilt but I honestly don’t wanna deal with the hassle of reselling that entire build

[astral haven]

get on the waitlist

[analog aspen]

From NVIDIA?

[astral haven]

evga

[analog aspen]

I’m really impressed those aren’t filled with bots and scalpers

Dayum

[astral haven]

eh

theres a limit to how many scalpers there can be

also you have to have an evga product registered to be able to get on the list

im on the list for a few friends lel

[fickle ore]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/m2muts/hardware_unboxed_nvidia_has_a_driver_overhead/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/m2mv1d/hardware_unboxed_nvidia_has_a_driver_overhead/

[reef patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-go-t-dothraki-itisknown-khaleesi-gif-5465236

[fickle ore]

Good discussion about the subject, I find it very interesting

[reef patrol]

Mhmm 😦

[fickle ore]

I had kind of hoped 6700 xt would be easy to get

[vagrant pagoda]

I'm just glad I didn't need a gpu as bad as a cpu lol

[reef patrol]

cries in buying an entire PC to get 3080

[pale sigil]

@reef patrol won't get selling my 3080 bte

Got an extension

Unless I get lucky and get a 3070

At a normal price

[reef patrol]

Not to worry. Got my own 🙂

[pale sigil]

Ooft evga hasn't sent out my new Psu

Also ooft

You actually got an entire pc

How much @reef patrol

[reef patrol]

I literally bought an entire PC, yes XD

[pale sigil]

How much

[reef patrol]

1675p for the Omen.

Hoping to get 1100 for the PC and my old 2080.

If that happens... I basically paid release MSRP forthe 3080.

[pale sigil]

Rough

[reef patrol]

Already got bids 🙂

[pale sigil]

Still rough haha

[reef patrol]

It's kind of ridiculous.

But at least I got a full reference board, which are the cheapest ones to watercool. 😄

Best bid so far is 1075p

[pale sigil]

Founder card or?

[reef patrol]

Naw.

Only nVidia themselves do those. Ref are "what everyone else gets - unless they decided to fuck them up" 😄

It's basically a PNY card with HP branding as far as I can sus.

[pale sigil]

That's kinda poo

I thought it might be that

[reef patrol]

Air cooler is... not great. But perfect for WC.

[pale sigil]

Aren't reference also smaller than usual

[reef patrol]

Glad it's not an FE. Their waterblocks are so hilariously pricy. 😄

[pale sigil]

Less fans etc (not that you need the fans but size if imagine is an issue?)

[reef patrol]

The PCB is actually just a tiny bit smaller on the FE cards this gen. At least for 3080.

FE

Ref

Coolers can be one fan or triple fan. Entirely up to the manufacturer. The double fan HP cooler is... not great though. Very loud 😄

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cch_c6xHPo

Mini datacenter 😄

[pale sigil]

Ye it's very small

[reef patrol]

Anyhow - I'll deal with the noise till my WB arrives in a week and a half.

[astral haven]

there were blower 3090s for a short while before nvidia banned them

[pale sigil]

Oh

Where's the video from

[reef patrol]

Mine? 3080 in my own case 😄

My old 2080 just BARELY doesn't fit. A bit of cutting and it'll do nicely.

[pale sigil]

Oh you actually have a 3080 right now

[reef patrol]

... yes 😛

PC arrived yesterday. 😄

[astral haven]

ton of peeps with 3080s

[pale sigil]

What's the frequencies etc

[reef patrol]

Haha no.

[astral haven]

800k on steam

[reef patrol]

No clue - Considering the fan noise... probably not amazing 😄

[pale sigil]

I think a very very little select few

In here at least including me

[fallow crypt]

@reef patrol did u buy it from a company as prebuilt? how did u get ur hands on a 3080??

[pale sigil]

Have one

[reef patrol]

Bought an HP Omen.

[pale sigil]

Hp pre build

[reef patrol]

It was on sale as well 😄

[astral haven]

"sale"

[fallow crypt]

Ahh okay gg bro are you planning on reselling parts accept from the 3080 or keeping the whole pc?

[reef patrol]

Selling the whole PC and my 2080 😄

[pale sigil]

This might have been yours mansen

[astral haven]

anyways new version of hwinfo has hotspot temperatures on the 20 and 30 series at least

[fallow crypt]

Yeah would be ur best bet tbh how much was it

[astral haven]

id be curious what your deltas are mansen and how they improve with a waterblock

[reef patrol]

Scroll up.

[pale sigil]

Mansen what's the frequencies or w.e

[reef patrol]

shrug

[astral haven]

hwinfo it up

[reef patrol]

cba

[astral haven]

pls

[pale sigil]

Really curious

[reef patrol]

Too loud 😄

[pale sigil]

For reference cards

[fallow crypt]

Yeah i am too @pale sigil

[pale sigil]

I'd imagine they are basically founder clones

[fallow crypt]

curious to see what they are tbh

[reef patrol]

They are 100% ref.

So... any other ref card will be exactly the same, except for cooler differences. And that is why I can't recommend going the Omen route if you plan on keeping the cooler 😄

[pale sigil]

So lowest but not enough to care about

[astral haven]

you should definetly check your hotspot temperatures with the air cooler to make sure your wb is working properly

[reef patrol]

Why bother. It's literally designed for it 😄

[astral haven]

could have messed up the paste?

[reef patrol]

Naw.

[astral haven]

air bubbles do happen every once in a while

[pale sigil]

Does that matter since afaik

[reef patrol]

No bubbles here.

[pale sigil]

Hes gonna replace it?

[reef patrol]

I scrape the paste out. 😄

That too.

[astral haven]

no

so the air cooler is fine

[reef patrol]

Air cooler is fine.

[pale sigil]

Dyson hoover though

[astral haven]

but you want to make sure the hotspot temp went down with the waterblock

[reef patrol]

It tops out at around 75C at 100% fans.

[astral haven]

no

hotspot temp

[reef patrol]

I give up 😄

[pale sigil]

Hot-spot temp mason

[reef patrol]

Again - Waterblock literally designed for card. Won't make a difference.

[pale sigil]

What do they mean mason

[astral haven]

62c core gives me 76c hotspot

[pale sigil]

I see what you mesn now

Hot spot temp isn't core temp

[astral haven]

yup

[reef patrol]

Mansen knows how to apply thermal paste. He is not going to take the card apart to do it again, except to slap on the waterblock 😄

[astral haven]

"core temp" is the average across all the core temp sensors
hotspot is the highest one

[hard thicket]

what case is that mansen ?

[reef patrol]

HP Omen 30L case.

mATX.

[hard thicket]

looks kinda modified

[pale sigil]

He's not on about where you apply thermal paste

[reef patrol]

His question is pointless. Because there is no variable possible here 😄

Whatever temps I'm getting now are temporary.

[pale sigil]

But the water itself only touched the core no?

[astral haven]

the point is to check what they are now to make sure that they get better

[reef patrol]

[pale sigil]

Or does the water block cool the entire pcb

[astral haven]

no

[pale sigil]

Actual question

[reef patrol]

Of course they'll get better xD

[astral haven]

this is core only

[pale sigil]

Never water cooled

[astral haven]

hotspot is on the core

[pale sigil]

Ah

[reef patrol]

WB cools core and the surrounding chips.

[pale sigil]

Coolio

One day...

I'll. Venture there

One day

[astral haven]

yeup

[pale sigil]

That triggers me

[astral haven]

the problem is there are alot of waterblocks that dont cover the entire core with cooling

afaik both the corsair and the ek are yikes hotspot wise

aka worse than good air cooling

[pale sigil]

He doesn't have good air cooling 🤣

So better regardless

[astral haven]

good thing with bad air cooling is that itll throttle and the hotspot temps will never get that high

[reef patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-press-la-noire-gif-18717264

[pale sigil]

At least his pcb isn't the size of a football field

[astral haven]

top is "core temperature"
mid is g6x temp
bottom is hotspot

[reef patrol]

PCBs are usually quite small.

My 2080 also doubles in length because of the cooler.

[astral haven]

this is my old card (20 series so no vram temp)

[pale sigil]

Long boy

My msi disagrees with you

[astral haven]

eh thats not full length

[reef patrol]

You can tell how bare the PCB is. They extended it to give the power connectors a better position.

[astral haven]

well id bet there are a ton of capacitors on the back tho

[reef patrol]

They'd uh... show through.

[astral haven]

no?

boards are 8 layers+

[reef patrol]

Yes... they would 😄

And sure enough. The back is also very bare.

[astral haven]

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-radeon-rx-6800-xt-strix-oc-lc-liquid-cooled/images/front.jpg

this one has smd caps on the back that you cant see

right under here

[reef patrol]

Yes... and those do not make up most of the PCB 😛

If you look at the back of the Trio, the bare areas more of less match both sides. 😉

[astral haven]

it is true that most of the vendors who put caps on the back put them on the back because they ran out of space on the front

and fuck msi for not doing that

[reef patrol]

It's... time to stop 😛

The Trio is a bare card. No escaping that 😛

[astral haven]

i gave them the benefit of the doubt

and they spat in my face

[pale sigil]

Still long

[astral haven]

it is pretty long

doesnt have an extender tho lel

[reef patrol]

Yep.

It's long for the power connectors, not because the PCB needs it.

Which is what I've been saying for ten minutes now 😄

[astral haven]

eh

considering the capacitor count that may be a 6 layer pcb

which could require them to have the vrm controllers that far back to prevent collisions

[reef patrol]

Something something reference is significantly more dense and packed 😛

[astral haven]

reference is 10 layers

[reef patrol]

It's not exactly as if it's the PCB that's the high ticket item here 😛

They made a design choice.

[astral haven]

if they really wanted they could have made the pcb full length tho

[reef patrol]

Full length - Or almost half the length of what it is.

[pale sigil]

IT'S STILL LONG

[reef patrol]

Yes, Callum. long boi

So's my 2080 😄

[astral haven]

oh ok with the cooler it does extend to full length pcie

direct heatpipes
i too like to live dangerously

[reef patrol]

Always pains me when I see that.

[astral haven]

when will gpu manufacturers learn that direct heatpipes are only ok when cooling a heatspreader

[old marlin]

german ISPs

business fiber GB

[astral haven]

vrm cooling ✅
memory cooling ✅
cpu cooling ✅
gtx 480 ✅
gpu ❌
laptop cpu ❌

id bet that you are cpu limited

[old marlin]

nah

neither CPU nor drive

[astral haven]

you sure?

[old marlin]

ye

like CPU gets a good hit

[astral haven]

check the per core usage

[old marlin]

but it at max is spiking

like ye it goes to 100% temporarily

but doesn't stay there

[astral haven]

i was at 50% on gigabit on my cpu but it was still heavily bottlenecking

[old marlin]

or even close

and I had over 100 MB/s permanently on other days

[astral haven]

it also depends on the game you are downloading

[old marlin]

BL3

[astral haven]

rust for example is 1 core of decompression and thrashes my disk to hell and back

i dont know why i have it installed lol

[old marlin]

buying the ultimate edition for steam was only slightly more expensive than buying the second season pass on epic

[old marlin]

yea my disk is 100% not the problem

is 2 m.2 drives in a hardware raid0

[astral haven]

🤷‍♂️ random writes of an nvme ssd is 50-80 MB/s

and raid doesnt improve that

[old marlin]

I should test the details

but not rn

[astral haven]

in fact raid makes it worse

usually

[old marlin]

a software raid for sure

doubt a hardware raid would

if the controller was made for that task

[astral haven]

theres no such thing as nvme hardware raid technically

[old marlin]

technically no hardware raids exist

[astral haven]

hardware raid for sas and sata do exist

[old marlin]

but they run software

and are not just logic gates

[astral haven]

actually thats not always true

[old marlin]

I mean ig a CPU is just logic gates

[astral haven]

nah a cpu has firmware

at least modern ones do

[reef patrol]

So do NAND controllers :3

[astral haven]

yea

so technically you cant get any form of raid without going through some software

but you can have a raid controller that is hardware

[old marlin]

ye

[astral haven]

scsi is such a simple protocol that you can straight up do that nonsense

its slow compared to an actual processor doing shiz but its still a thing

[hard thicket]

don't forget the windows limitations in file transfer

im hitting nearly 13gb/s in benchmarks, but that's nowhere near what windows can actually do

it's 2021 and they still have not change that

[old marlin]

that is just installing via steam

I can hit more than that

might also be steam servers

used the katowicz one this time

cause german ones are

and even my shitty connection at home can get not always get capped

[vagrant pagoda]

There are old school ide and scsi devices that did raid 1 via dedicated chip

They had to be two of the exact same drives with same layouts

And they didn't allow any drive cacheing

[ashen spindle]

https://twitter.com/harukaze5719/status/1370213312680456195 big boi

포시포시 (@harukaze5719)

roughly, looks like this one?

Twitter · Mar 12, 2021, 3:21 AM

[wheat plume]

https://youtu.be/zH3zyZ4q0oU

[zenith sonnet]

Ever heard of Deutsche Glasfaser GmbH?

[umbral knot]

for some reason that sounds familiar but I'm not German

[old marlin]

that is exactly the provider

9% packet loss on average

[zenith sonnet]

Oooof

They wanna built fiber in our village

They're slightly more expensive than Vodafone KD

[umbral knot]

Better than mine

[zenith sonnet]

But I'm mostly curious what their service is like
If they're a good ISP

Well, it's not like Vodefone is free of packet loss either... :/

But not 9%

[zenith sonnet]

Any good way to test for packet loss? Particularly long term?

[tawny prism]

I'm just glad Comcast never noticed that I'm over-provisioned.

[old marlin]

pfsense

aka

our firewall

this feels good

[tawny prism]

Like I pay for the 50/10 chud package but my internet speed is bottlenecked by my router currently.

Which has like 600mbit throughput

[zenith sonnet]

Thinkbroadband has some packet loss testing, but it's lacking...

[analog aspen]

@astral haven 5.3Ghz 1.4v 3900MHz 17-17-17-35 1.5v VCCIO 1.35v
It's stable for now but my voltages are loose af

haven't touched 2nd timing at all so maybe I can tighten it a bit more then tighten down all the voltages before I fry everything

heard expected bdie latency is 35-40ns but I don't think I can reach it with this setup

computer wouldn't boot past 3900MHz, or CL lower than 17. Pretty sure tightening 2nd and 3rd timing would shape off ~2ns at best

[zenith sonnet]

AGESA 1.2.0.2 is seemingly the one
Once GIgabyte gets a stable BIOS with 1.2.0.2 out I'll finally start working on the memory

Wonder if I can hit the same latencies again

It's ok

[analog aspen]

it means wasting days just to get 2% more fps. Don't go down this hole

I'm 90% sure if I spent all that time playing the game to git gud I'll net more result than doing all this

[zenith sonnet]

More like 15-20% with Zen2/3

It's actually that big

[ashen spindle]

Do you want to know what things mean or is it just a comment to express you don’t care?

[zenith sonnet]

It depends a little on the game/engine, but with Zen2/3 a memory latency reduction translates to an FPS gain at a almost 1:1 ratio

[analog aspen]

Quintosh how do I get 40ns with my bdie 🥺

Mine gets to 50ns and there’s hella errors from OCCT I’m loosening the clock back now

[zenith sonnet]

Lower clock, and much lower latency

[ashen spindle]

Idk I have cjr and not touching it outside of xmp till the agesa that fixes usb

[zenith sonnet]

What's your board manufacturer?

[vagrant pagoda]

SSF life. New motherboards vrm is too big, so I can't fit radiator anymore

[zenith sonnet]

I know Asrock has 1.2.0.2 out already

[ashen spindle]

But since b die is quite popular it should be easy to find tips on that online

[zenith sonnet]

For b-die:
Run 1.5V, make sure you have active memory cooling, get CL12 stable, then the clock as high as possible

[ashen spindle]

Idk unless asrock has something nobody else has or is better at price, I tend to avoid it

[analog aspen]

Trfc and CR?

[vagrant pagoda]

Any manufacturer actually put vapor chamber coolers on memory anymore?

[ashen spindle]

Ram or gpu memory?

[analog aspen]

Also I don’t have active memory cooling I think

[vagrant pagoda]

Ram

The sexiest ram I own is ddr2 mushkin assents

[ashen spindle]

canj't recall that on any ddr4 really

[vagrant pagoda]

They have amazing coolers

Vapor chamber and finns

Lmao

I remember sd ram

And damn rambus

[ashen spindle]

tino you would be old enough to attend such an event wtf are you on about

[vagrant pagoda]

So how hard can you bend a aio fitting before failure

Asking for a friend

[ashen spindle]

depends on how much pressure you put on the loop :p

[chrome estuary]

@vagrant pagoda nfc, test it and tell us

[vagrant pagoda]

Tbo

I'm more worried about the mobo

And the dumb giant reario cover thing

[zenith sonnet]

You don't want a kink in the tube

[vagrant pagoda]

Why is this a thing now

[vagrant pagoda]

It's the fitting...

[zenith sonnet]

Aren't fittings rigid?

[vagrant pagoda]

Exactly

[zenith sonnet]

How can you bend a piece of brass?

[vagrant pagoda]

Needs to go down another 1/4"

Well

I went am3->intel-am4

And thought I could just swap the mount back

Nope

So my custom loop got pulled out

I had to grind the aio mount to work on am4

There wasn't enough meat on the custom block to amek it work

I mean

I got 2 screws in

Should work until I get new block

To big

No handles

[analog aspen]

bclk frequency : ram frequency ratio
@zenith sonnet what is that setting? I just changed from “Auto” to “100:100” and latency zoomed into 75ns
Edit: nvm that’s just because 100:100 automatically make MHz turn into “Auto”

[vagrant pagoda]

I got 3 screws in

2 in one fan, 1 on the other

Good enough right?

F

I forget to run wires behind it

[vagrant pagoda]

Well

The OCP on this psu isnt enough for dead shorts

Used the wrong esp12 wire

I don't even know where I got a single different modular cable from

[edgy hull]

Simple stuff, you buy ten Arctic fans and only use like four, when they die you use the other four, and so forth. Perf is basically the same, lifespan/$ is better due to how cheap it is.
Even then, Noctua is meh for lifespan compared to smth like Gentle Typhoon which has longer lifespan and serviceable bearings (reoiling).

Or you know, go push/pull Arctic and get quieter then push or pull only Noctua

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean I have almost 10 year old noctuas

And the only bad ones are 2 my dog broke blades off

Over 10

[edgy hull]

right, but I was using a comparison to the other fans. Not outright stating Noctua has low lifespan

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean they haven't been in the market long enough to fail

[zenith sonnet]

I seriously want someone to do benchmarks on fans that have been in 16/7 operation for at least two years

[vagrant pagoda]

I've had them in 24 operation almost the whole time

They only get loud when dirty

[fair gull]

so

the noctua fans where running for almost 10years straight

and still are super quiet

i somehow doubt that

[vagrant pagoda]

Yep

It was my main machine

Then it became backups setup

Still running

D14 for the cooler and 4 of these fans are still in thetr

[ashen spindle]

https://twitter.com/BradChacos/status/1370411744020070401 wouldn't be too shabby for a first gen effort

B-rad Chacos 🎮 (@BradChacos)

20x faster than Crystal Well with 3DMark on the screen, eh? @Gordonung did the math and Intel's upcoming Xe HPG graphics card for gamers ~could~ wind up battling the RTX 3070: https://t.co/fUws8awBIm https://t.co/VQlDrOOfNN

Twitter · Mar 12, 2021, 4:29 PM

[vagrant pagoda]

Also why would a psu manufacturer use the same connector on both ends of a cable, but not make them straight though cables

[crisp granite]

that would be insane

if true

and I do have my doubts

[ashen spindle]

are you sure?

tsmc 7nm, 2022, not a ton of optimization, potential driver issues

I would hope it would at least have general compute performance of a 3070 with all that

[crisp granite]

I'm worried about the latter two

and I guess the TSMC 7nm isn't gonna help supply much

[ashen spindle]

intel has much more manpower than amd, that will be a much faster catchup

and by then amd is moving toward 5nm

[crisp granite]

I guess

still

I doubt 3070 level performance is coming out first time

[ashen spindle]

why

you do realize 2022 means it's 1.5-2 years later

[crisp granite]

and by then graphics cards should be in stock

and next gen parts coming out

[ashen spindle]

so you think it'll be better?

[crisp granite]

no

I think it'll be too late, and not as great as they claim

[ashen spindle]

we're still talking about intel here

the issue are withing the process nodes, the design teams had not had really any issues for a while now

so the track record would suggest it could be even better

[crisp granite]

I'm still skeptical, ok quin?

intel has kinda dropped the ball lately

so, I don't expect them to absolutely nail it here either

[ashen spindle]

as I said, people making the node != the people designing the hardware on it

and the ball dropping was solely the 10/7nm nodes

[crisp granite]

I know

but I'm still skeptical

[ashen spindle]

[crisp granite]

I never take corps at face value

it's just me

I like independent benchmarks more

[reef tundra]

Corpos REeeeeeEEeeee

[zenith sonnet]

Won't it actually sucks for game devs to have to support a third brand?

[crisp granite]

I guess

besides

unless intel comes out with something ray tracing and AI upscaling, they'll be disadvantaged hard

[zenith sonnet]

Considering how many indie devs already ignore AMD hardwarw for the most part...

[ashen spindle]

ofc they have RT accelerators

idk about dlss equivalent, but you need to keep in mind intel has billons in AI companies and AI acceleration stuff in cpus etc.

whereas AMD is like nonexistant there

[reef tundra]

AI? artificial Intellect. 🧠

[crisp granite]

I gotz none of zhat

me squishy head

[reef tundra]

Makes head traumas less likely. Smart thinking there

[zenith sonnet]

I'm sure you'll want to deploy rocm unless you want Nvidia to have a quasi monopoly

[astral haven]

You ever tried to run rocm?

It ain't fast

[zenith sonnet]

Somebody has to start using it, unless you wanna Nvidia tax for the rest of your life

[vagrant pagoda]

Installing windows from a NVMe usb-c 20gbps drive to a NVMe boot drive, takes under 5 minutes

Nice

[latent mural]

Nvme 20gbs drive? Which one is that?

[vagrant pagoda]

its a m.2 nvme enclosure that is 20gbps type c

[vagrant pagoda]

So new mobo/cpu and now my gpu won't detect the right resolution for my monitors...

That's a new one

[zenith sonnet]

Update firmware time

[vagrant pagoda]

on what

everything is updated

[formal meteor]

Probably have to reinstall drivers

[zenith sonnet]

The monitors?

If that doesn't help, I guess CRU can fix those EDIDs

[vagrant pagoda]

they work with the old os/mobo

something about the x570 is doing weirdness

[zenith sonnet]

Try clearing them with CRU and see if they reload properly maybe?

[vagrant pagoda]

i reinstalled windows twice

ill give it another go clearing them

[zenith sonnet]

You also installed the chipset driver?

[vagrant pagoda]

yes

i tried with and without it

[zenith sonnet]

What GPU is it?

[vagrant pagoda]

1080ti

[zenith sonnet]

What CPU did you upgrade from?

[vagrant pagoda]

4790k

[zenith sonnet]

Bios is also up to date?
Did you check if there is new firmware for the monitors?

[vagrant pagoda]

yes and eys

[zenith sonnet]

Hrm

[vagrant pagoda]

had to update to get 5900x to work

and monitor has no updates

[reef tundra]

"WIndows just works"

[vagrant pagoda]

exactly

lol

[zenith sonnet]

Tbf, I never heard of that issue before, either

[vagrant pagoda]

i mean, nvidia drivers on linux are a joke

[reef tundra]

They work atleast

[vagrant pagoda]

some times

[zenith sonnet]

It might just be the Nvidia driver that doesn't play nicely today

[vagrant pagoda]

i run a vega 64 on my linux workstation

[zenith sonnet]

If CRU can't solve it, I'm out of ideas

[reef tundra]

Ethereum miners get shafted lmao

[analog aspen]

Couldn’t get 3900mhz 17-17-17-37 to stable 0 error in OOCT
Settled with 3600mhz 14-14-14-34.
Going from 56.8ns XMP to 53ns for all that effort
Either my setup sucks at RAM OC or I just lose the silicone lottery hard lmao

[astral haven]

remember slightly unstable ocs wont have any errors show up cause the cpu will just deal with it, but will decrease your performance

[analog aspen]

uwu I heard Integral said average of bdie is 40-45ns I’m so mad that my kit won’t even go past 50

[astral haven]

also did you yeet refi into the ground?

thats where most of the bdie perf comes from

[analog aspen]

What does refi mean

[astral haven]

sorry trfc

rfc is the time the ram spends refreshing the data stored

[analog aspen]

Didn’t touch it honestly

[astral haven]

its kinda the most important timing for bdie

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328891236918493184/710883508683538523/tRFC_v21.png

lower is better ofc

you should be able to hit 300 or better on 3600

[analog aspen]

Kk what else

[astral haven]

whats rfc at rn

[analog aspen]

I thought they didn’t gonna change much

560

[astral haven]

yikes

[analog aspen]

XD

[astral haven]

yea just change that and you should hit 48ns

[analog aspen]

I didn’t knowww

[astral haven]

start at 300 and go down from there

if you have bdie

which you probably do

[analog aspen]

Ye

I’ll post my Thai piin

Give me 10m

[astral haven]

yea integrals guide has you mess with rfc before even dealing with primary timings lmao

[analog aspen]

current timing

[astral haven]

yea so while you were gone i checked integrals guide and trfc is literally step 2

[analog aspen]

I know I suck at OC 🥲

[astral haven]

thats why you follow the instructions...

[analog aspen]

Maybe just skipped straight over it

It’s hard tho

In the BIOS

So I have to read that guide on my tiny phone screen

[astral haven]

gimme 30 s and ill give you a tool to change it in windows (everything but cl you can change)

[analog aspen]

ASUS AI Suite 3 got taken down I think

Can’t find it anywhere online anymore

I use MAXIMUS XI mobo

thaiphoon

no idea how to read report tho

[astral haven]

ah the classic 3200 14-14-14

[analog aspen]

I said it from the start

The worst part is

It’s RGB

I didn’t know back then

[astral haven]

🤷‍♂️

doesnt matter much

[analog aspen]

I was like “it’s exact same bin why it’s so cheap”

Compared to non-RGB

I heard RGB kits OC worse because different layout

[astral haven]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s7azeckt1f2s4yt/Mem TweakIt-V2.02.46.7z?dl=0

difference isnt something you will be able to take advantage of

this link still up?

memtweakit 2 keeps vanishing, this is the most recent one shared

[analog aspen]

ye I dont know why Asus taking down the old wares

[astral haven]

its actually not old

[analog aspen]

Cpu z realbunch ramcache

ramdisk

[astral haven]

theres a new version released with every new series of boards

[analog aspen]

new boards don't even get them

all they get is the junk armoury

that update old drivers with out-of-date drivers

and mostly for RGB

"error during driver installation"

[astral haven]

there is memtweakit for z490

[analog aspen]

noice

fml

[astral haven]

🤷‍♂️

if it really doesnt work, use xtu

hope that the option is there for you there

[analog aspen]

there's xtu in my bios

i'll see if i can work with memtweakit

[astral haven]

xtu the program not the bios option

[analog aspen]

Next is tRFC. Default for 8Gb ICs is 350ns (note the units).

this is step 2 of Tightening Timings

I gave up at Tightening Timings

didn't think it would net more than 2ns

[astral haven]

did you set the timings that integral just gave you raw numbers for?

[analog aspen]

if you're correct then this could net 4ns

[analog aspen]

nope. I used to it the past but nothing POST

[astral haven]

this can get alot more than 4ns if you spend the time to tune it properly

[analog aspen]

actually, is it even okay when I OC ram outside of BIOS

will my windows go brrrr

I have a restore point for this morning but

[astral haven]

be careful lel

[analog aspen]

last time I tried OC memory it corrupted the restore point file

I'd imagine it's more damaging when Windows is running

[astral haven]

🤷 always a risk no matter how you oc memory

And nah

Usually system files get corrupted most often while booting

The problem is that entering settings into bios causes a retrain

[analog aspen]

Max Dual Channel Bandwidth (MB/s) <~ what is this for

[analog aspen]

true

[astral haven]

That's your max theoretical speed

You are using aida64 right?

[analog aspen]

occt

[astral haven]

as in to benchmark

[analog aspen]

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/Maximus_IV_GENEZ/#download

this used to be where people get their memtweakit

why its taken down

no idea

[analog aspen]

o Maxxmem2

[astral haven]

yea so use aida64 memory and cache benchmark

or you can use the intel mlc

[zenith sonnet]

I have the exact same memory, except with a different XMP profile

[analog aspen]

yeah I remember

my last attempt at OC-ing RAM you showed me your timing

3600 14-13-13-28 iirc

[zenith sonnet]

3666 14-13-13-21 😄

[analog aspen]

damn

[analog aspen]

my bin can't get there at all

it wouldn't even boot with 3600 14-13-13-34

is your RGB kit tho

[zenith sonnet]

Yes

Literally same memory

[analog aspen]

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?120581-Memtweakit-error-fix/page3

yeah literally hopeless sigh

time for xtu

[analog aspen]

what mobo

also what's your VCCIO

[zenith sonnet]

Aorus Master, and Auto, so 1.05 or 1.1V?

[astral haven]

Ryzen doesn't have vccio

They have soc

Which cant go above 1.2

[zenith sonnet]

Call it whatever 🤷

[analog aspen]

MSI dragon ball time

[astral haven]

I just remembered Asus has real-time memory tweaking off by default

[zenith sonnet]

I got my tRFC down to 244

[analog aspen]

how many DIMM slots

[analog aspen]

eh. that's fucked up

[astral haven]

You need to enable it in bios

[zenith sonnet]

2 DIMMs

[analog aspen]

this is why

my MAXIMUS XI hero have 4 DIMM fml

[zenith sonnet]

Why do you need so much memory?

[astral haven]

You can't compare io to soc

[analog aspen]

i tried disabling 2 in BIOS but can't change the layout I guess