🔌│tech

[frozen ingot]

one few others than intel could pull off

[shadow minnow]

Indeed

[wheat plume]

not really....only the 15 Pro Max gets the new CPU, the others get last year's CPU

[frozen ingot]

only other company I could see release a shitty dated product from day one and still get away with it is nintendo

[frozen ingot]

they usually make these claims about the flagship

[cursive summit]

Fuckin colours

[wheat plume]

TBF, the games that Nintendo make are fairly well able to run on that hardware and third party games arent a concern for them since its their first party games that sell the systems

[steep creek]

o yea i like this

[ashen spindle]

M3 pro seems like a downgrade? like you either want M3 or M3 max

[shadow minnow]

Seems like there is a lot of light pollution looking at the space

[shadow minnow]

Oh?

[ashen spindle]

one less gpu core and the memeory bandwidth is kinda weird

[frozen ingot]

a pencil sharpener can run nintendo games

that's hardly an excuse

[shadow minnow]

But like the core will be better and so will rt support and the new cache feature

[cursive summit]

So good they had to keep comparing it to M1 for big numbers

[wheat plume]

idk if the lag im getting sometimes in Mario Wonder is due to emulation or just the game itself

[ashen spindle]

how would you know that if we dont know what the core looks like lol

and the cache feature might just be SLC remapping which isnt new, but calling old tech a new innovation is on brand for apple

[cursive summit]

So where's the gaming stuff and iMac

This is boring

[shadow minnow]

Reminds me I am supposed to visit a cleanroom in here tommorow

[cursive summit]

Intel based lol

Apple loves exaggerated marketing

[steep creek]

imac time

man im not a fan of that chin to be honest. i thought it would become thinner

[cursive summit]

How dare you hate Apple

Bow down to the tech gods

[steep creek]

probably for imac pro when that comes

[crisp granite]

I guess I have a lot more to look forward to for when I get the M4 pro...in two years

for now, my M1 Pro is keeping me happy as a clam

[ashen spindle]

they better have a new cpu core team for the M4

[cursive summit]

Lol, no, Apple silicon is dead

[ashen spindle]

or they still need to compare to intel lol

[mental egret]

so do people run two vertical montiors or one vertical/one horizontal setup?

[crisp granite]

I hope so too

the GPU is the only thing that is really improving

:|

[ashen spindle]

it was to be expected but this is worse than I assumed

[cursive summit]

"Innovating at tremendous pace".. yeah, no

Nuvia leaving really fucked them lol

[steep creek]

the black color was maybe the nicest thing tonight lol

[ashen spindle]

yea lol

[cursive summit]

That was some funny shit

[ashen spindle]

short and painless and no mother gaia at least

[cursive summit]

60% better! Than M1

Only 10% vs M2

[steep creek]

😬

[cursive summit]

Super disappointing event, Apple is stagnating

[mild dome]

IRC wasn't the jump between the M1 and M2 rather small? Or was it just that the GPU was a lot bigger?

[steep creek]

its gone up 1000 nok from the m2 pro, which is about 2530 euros for me

[cursive summit]

Bigger than what this is

[cursive summit]

LOL fuck no, that's a ripoff

[ashen spindle]

it was obvious since M1 was a one time jump since you cant grab the low hanging fruits by switching uArch multiple times

so it is somewhat in line with expectations

[cursive summit]

Get a laptop with an RTX 4090 at 2.5k euros

[ashen spindle]

N3 kinda meh as a node too

[steep creek]

very expensive computer

[cursive summit]

While TSMC continues to struggle with N2

[ashen spindle]

tf you mean struggle with N2

[cursive summit]

Tsmc has been struggling with n2 for as long as I remember

Toms of articles on their woes

Samsung's nodes are better tech imo at this point

[ashen spindle]

we havent really had much news in either way on N2

[cursive summit]

Tsmc continues to insist on finfet while Intel and Samsung are on gaafet

[astral haven]

m2 was slower than m1 at the same core count lel

[mild dome]

Oof

[ashen spindle]

yes and that doesnt matter because what matters is the performance not how you get to it

[astral haven]

they did add more cores to most of the cpus, and lowered the costs on the ones they didnt so it was an all around better generation to get, but still yikes

also alot fewer bugs

[mild dome]

Doin a quick google
TSMC is moving to Gaafet for 2nm, and it seems this was always the plan. However for the 3nm node most others were already on gaafet

[ashen spindle]

no?

[cursive summit]

2nm TSMC is finfet though?

[astral haven]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17469/tsmc-first-n2-node-to-use-gaafets-skip-backside-power

[cursive summit]

tsmc doesn't do gaafet or mbcfet yet

[astral haven]

something new?

[cursive summit]

Wheres the touchbar

[shadow minnow]

I am sure it will be very efficient

[astral haven]

gotta keep in mind tsmc is running about 1 year ahead of the others for the same nm number
and intel is 2 years behind
performance and nm number are very different things tho

[cursive summit]

One of the only features I care about on Mac is the touchbar

[crisp granite]

200 CAD bump from before for me

[cursive summit]

They axed it yet?

[crisp granite]

currency keeps devaluing

[cursive summit]

And far more powerful

[crisp granite]

thankfully, they did

[ashen spindle]

SS is using GAA and so far it sucks so that alone isnt just making stuff magically better

[crisp granite]

it appears the 14" with M3 is the replacement

[cursive summit]

Nice, interest is gone

Thanks, apple

[ashen spindle]

its just like how using x86 or arm isnt instantyl making something better or worse

[astral haven]

wait which node is using gaa?

[steep creek]

I think it’s discontinued

[ashen spindle]

uhh forgot their naming scheme, 3GAE?

some mining chip is lead product on it iirc

or was it 3GAP

[cursive summit]

Eh, doesn't matter, Apple still managed to stay uninteresting with yet another event

[steep creek]

Yeah tonight’s event wasn’t too impressive. I may just go with an m2 pro if I can find a good deal on it

Or not lol

[astral haven]

3gae is first yea

[ashen spindle]

so tldr of apple event: dont get m3 pro, go above or below xD

[cursive summit]

I am a desktop person, mac mini with a +50% overall performance uplift over M2 and dedicated graphics hardware with new gaming translation layers for native performance experiences for all games would have made me instantly switch to Mac

[ashen spindle]

give me some of the drugs you are on if you think 50% is even remotely possible with anything

[cursive summit]

With Nuvia it's possible lel

[crisp granite]

got it
I'll splash out on the M4 MAX when it comes out

[steep creek]

Probably a while until we see 50% increase

[astral haven]

so far the only chips they have made are microscopic crypto chips
not a single cpu or gpu or modem released on it yet
aka nothing exynos

[crisp granite]

anything is possible if you fudge the numbers well enough 😉

[ashen spindle]

yeah 50% vs last intel from 2017

[crisp granite]

50% uplift in this thing that follows this new instruction set we have dedicated accelerators for and last gen didn't have, last gen supported via a nasty translation layer

[slim sonnet]

how am i supposed to play the last of us on my mac!!

[astral haven]

or not even using a translation layers, just running raw cpu code

[crisp granite]

playing a real game
like metro exodus

or RE4

EYYY

[slim sonnet]

just render everything on cloud

[ashen spindle]

transistors vs M2 parts:
M3: 20B -> 25B
M3 Pro: 40B -> 37B
M3 Max: 67B -> 92B

[astral haven]

meh if you are editing photos on a mac, you are supposed to capture everything in heif

[final flame]

they always call them pro devices and spec them like they're for just web browsing

[ashen spindle]

m3 pro literally downgraded transistors lol

[cursive summit]

Since when does a 512gb extra Ssd cost 200$

Those things are like 100$

[slim sonnet]

yeah but its got force touch trackpad

thats like WOOTING TRACKPAD

[wheat plume]

..... nearly 2 grand for a laptop with just 8gb ram is ridiculous no matter what it's use case is for

Wtf Apple

[cursive summit]

Ah yes, I forgot what company makes these

[final flame]

because if oh no, someone ever would install a 3rd party ssd into a first party product
the computer will die if that happens -apple

[cursive summit]

Maybe Apple could start paying those Foxconn workers more than 7$ a week

[astral haven]

ah but then when the computer dies the first time, someone would have been able to repair it, just like i did on the mac at work
cant have that

[ashen spindle]

was m2 pro variant selling too well and they had to cut down the value offering? lol

[crisp granite]

all soldered onto SOC iirc

[slim sonnet]

framework laptops become more popular

[crisp granite]

ew

[cursive summit]

Framework is bleh

[crisp granite]

nah I'm still buying macs

[slim sonnet]

true i feel like even for a linux device mac probably better lmao

[cursive summit]

It's alright you are a debil for a reason

[final flame]

yes we can't have that
we must replace the entire motherboard if any issue arises that isn't an obvious flaw
our technicians are just glorified lego builders, so we must not make the job harder on them

[slim sonnet]

seeing how flimsy the screen on the framework was wasnt nice

[astral haven]

ssd is not on the soc, its soldered to the motherboard

[final flame]

forbid we have to pay them more salary

[cursive summit]

Staying awake this long was a mistake, thought Apple could introduce something remotely interesting and they still failed

Well, it is what it is, shattple stays shattple

[final flame]

when do they ever fail being a dissapointment

[quiet hull]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/17k8pka/monsgeek_he_m1_vs_wooting/

[cursive summit]

Later skaters

[frozen ingot]

damn man I'm really struggling to go sleep

maybe I shoulda put on the apple keynote

woulda put me to sleep within 10 minutes

[cursive summit]

Nah man you wouldn't fall asleep easily cause the presenter starts screaming every 5 minutes cause they are introducing NEW COLOURS

[slim sonnet]

OP's reddit name seems familiar

[frozen ingot]

as long as I'd fall asleep before tim cook speaks, I really can't stomach the guys accent

[slim sonnet]

gotta get a key tester though if you're gonna do this shizz, right?

[astral haven]

there arent any key testers for hall effect yet

[cursive summit]

Tbf this event for them really seemed like second rate cause even Tim Cook didn't want to stay on screen for too long

[astral haven]

you need a setup like ltt labs has to test latency on them

[wheat plume]

The fact the ram is shared means you probably only get 6gb ram for the OS and 2gb for the GPU

[astral haven]

no

its shared

as in its shared live

like intel

[slim sonnet]

couldnt you just like calibrate the height of the tester to be 0 and then have it press down the distance you set it in wootility? or no

[cursive summit]

For a shatple fan that seems more than enough

[astral haven]

amd has their janky solution that requires that you set some ram aside for the gpu

[wheat plume]

Not on a laptop with Pro in the name and such powerful specs

[astral haven]

but thats not how shared works on any of the other devices

[slim sonnet]

https://youtu.be/Fs4shm3Pyfc?t=232 thats what he is doing here

[cursive summit]

You can't really do much Pro anything on 8GBs lol

It's just Apple scamming people as usual

[crisp granite]

👀

[final flame]

Highground has always been just meh
they can't make a good custom, can't imagine they can make a good gaming kb

overpriced and hyped garbage

[slim sonnet]

yeah i just meant the testing method he uses

[astral haven]

who dis

neat

is that the touchpad that linus was showing the prototype of?

[cursive summit]

You know what really pisses me off about Apple? The upselling

You can go rn to a store to get a Pcie4-5 1TB drive for like 100$

DDR5-8000 I just checked for 32 gigs of RAM is like 250$

[final flame]

well of course, basically anything will give you a better value

[cursive summit]

Apple will ask for at least 300$ for 1TB, and like 400$ for 8GB extra RAM

It's fucking insane

[final flame]

apple is able to get away with it since they tailor to their sheep like a shepard giving salt to it's herd

[cursive summit]

I would rather rip out Apples own RAM and slot in 32gigs of fast DDR5

For a fraction of the price

[cursive summit]

Which is why I hope they fail sooner than later

Just money gauging

[cursive summit]

Their little thing with Intel where they decided to get rid of them, and also AMD's hardware too, with their technological marvel M1 suddenly not feeling so well anymore, I hope that as AMD continues to innovate with Zen for high performance compute, Qualcomm surpasses Apple in efficiency and speed, Intel builds up fabs and nodes, Nvidia just continues innovating in graphics and supposedly branch out into Arm soon

I hope that Apple is left with nothing at that point

Cause nothing of value will be lost

[final flame]

yea
can't wait to see the innovation in that space as that will great

not to mention windows 12 is supposed to be optimised for arm use too

[cursive summit]

Ew, Windows 12

I don't like 11, how am I supposed to like 12

[final flame]

yea, but it's going to be the largest option for arm cpus once they take over the mobile space

[cursive summit]

Ngl this will be the funniest shit ever when Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite is better at productivity, gaming and power efficiency than M3

On Windows of all things

Suddenly the thing Mac users were the best at, belongs to Windows again

[ashen spindle]

it's not and M3 is out in a week, snapdragon in 8 months

[cursive summit]

I bet it will be though

[ashen spindle]

it's not

[cursive summit]

Do you know that?

[pale sigil]

Thats bold af

[ashen spindle]

just looking at their own numbers it doesnt really beat what m3 will have in all points

[cursive summit]

Who?

[cursive summit]

Pretty sure it does

[pale sigil]

Tbh ive been under a rock

Is Snapdraggon really doing that good?

[steep creek]

Apparently the event was shot on an iPhone

[cursive summit]

It's the same team who made M1, what do you think

[ashen spindle]

they will have a good one coming but that is like 8 months out

[pale sigil]

😦

[ashen spindle]

and vex is the new priest of preaching it like the new coming of jesus

[final flame]

m3 hasn't even been released yet, it's anyones game at this point
whether you trust apples performance numbers

[cursive summit]

Well yes, Arm is suddenly good now

Exciting times

[ashen spindle]

yes m3 is not out for a week but we can take some numbers form what they showed and get to usefull numbers while ignoring the obvious marketing

we still know some things and oryon is 8 months away, drivers need to run etc.

[final flame]

usual apple just giving % values outa the ass

[ashen spindle]

yes the % doesnt say much but we do havbe some numbers like mem bandwidth and such on the pages

[astral haven]

just a few weeks ago i learned you can shoot raw video on android
compatible with most androids back to 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2EpX41cVTU

[steep creek]

Crisp, that scene at 1:30 is really nice

[mild dome]

At the company I work at the man who's in charge of laptop standards just updated the channel topic on the group chat centred around testing that hardware. As you can imagine a lot of people join the channel just to ask dumb questions

[steep creek]

Closing timelapse too

[hard minnow]

Hey everyone, just wanted to ask if anyone has mouse recommendations, I am currently using a Razer Viper and I am looking for an upgrade

[cursive summit]

Check rtings

Oh jesus christ

https://tenor.com/view/beating-cristi-memri-gif-25663599

[astral haven]

my phone can record open gate 4000x3000 at 30fps
it runs 25GB per minute with denoising off
18GB per minute with denoising

[mild dome]

If you like burning money you could get the magnesium one

[steep creek]

Lol gotta keep external storage on hand. Nice stuff though

[astral haven]

yep

and ofc like the iphone it can record directly to external storage

or sd card, tho most sd cards arent fast enough

it actually has a mode where it splits between the sd card and internal

[cursive summit]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/western-digital-split-two-kioxia-155950000.html

Not.. good?

[steep creek]

Yeah I mean probably all or most phones with usb c can do it

[astral haven]

maxes out the bandwidth of the sd then records the rest to internal

[steep creek]

Yep

[astral haven]

too fast for usb2

by about 5x

[steep creek]

I’m unsure if all android phones have usb 3, but likely the higher end ones do

[astral haven]

basically same story as iphone yea

[steep creek]

I see

[astral haven]

except the prices are alot lower

oneplus 8 has usb3

[steep creek]

That’s an affordable phone, nice to see such features on it

I saw that video you linked was shot on the 8, and a xiaomi. Impressive it can shoot such detail

[astral haven]

yep

the current best recommendations are the xiaomi 13 ultra which is expensive but also has 4 incredible lenses

[warm schooner]

GTX 1650 Super or a 2080 ti

[astral haven]

and the pixel 8 (and pro) which provide raw recording for both the physical lenses and some of the digital crops

[steep creek]

Aha yeah I have heard good things of the xiaomi. Pixel as well but it’s well known for its camera features

Wonder how it compares to the iPhone. I haven’t seen any comparisons yet

[astral haven]

going a little hard on the number of options for the same
but this phone has 3 lenses physically and 5 digitally

[steep creek]

Yeah like with Apple lol. Couple reviewers claimed it has 7 lenses

[astral haven]

yea except this is one of the first to provide raw output from debeyering on the telephoto

the zoomiest iphone is 12 megapixels from 120mm

this does 12 megapixels at 230mm

[steep creek]

Neat

[astral haven]

samsung has a physical lens that is 240mm but only 10megapixels and tiny sensor

[steep creek]

I have to go, but nice chatting with you

[autumn igloo]

connecting the keyboard to usb 2.0 and 3.0 etc. doesn't change anything in performance,latency etc.?

[rough osprey]

black macbook pro is 🥵

[fair gull]

death of the touchbar

sadge

[rough osprey]

https://twitter.com/kylehalevi/status/1719158262829056073?t=yU95H2kxnD8UCaPEXCKW0A&s=19

ye looked kinda weird

with the gradients and all

[umbral heron]

SF Pro ExtraLight
Gradient
DESIGN

[wheat plume]

Ive searched online and I still cant find out wtf an "Object Call Document" is in Python

Ive seen call() and Objects ofc but not an object call document

[fair gull]

i never knew that mydealz is this serious about stuff on their website https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsnQde0ywmw

[old marlin]

wtf

[wheat plume]

is this shallow copy?

I need to do shallow and full recursive deep copy

:/ idk that last one

[fair gull]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17246693/what-is-the-difference-between-shallow-copy-deepcopy-and-normal-assignment-oper

one google search

but basically its about references or no references

[cursive summit]

Indeed, one of the cool redeeming features of Apple they really want to ax

I was really impressed by the touchbar

Thought it might actually be a dealmaker

But they seem to really want to ax it lel

[wheat plume]

that doesnt mention recursion

[fair gull]

it does

quite literally

from the answer

[wheat plume]

oh hmm

so deep copy == recursive deep copy??

[fair gull]

there is no recursive deep copy

a deep copy is a recursive copy

[wheat plume]

then whats this?

full recursive deep copy

[fair gull]

i think your prof typoed

and meant full recursive copy (deep copy)

[wheat plume]

not me, this is job exam

[cursive summit]

Pffft ahahaah https://vxtwitter.com/IanCutress/status/1719150797273825310

[fair gull]

the word prof vanished there. doesnt matter though its a typo

[cursive summit]

This makes no sense that suddenly with 2 watts gains it's like 50% more powerful

[fair gull]

a deep copy (in all langs i know) refers to a recursive copy of an object structure

so you cant recursive deep copy as that would be just a deep copy

[wheat plume]

so it does the recursion itself... ok ok good to know

watch now...they actually want us to make it recursive ourselves
check if the value is a list item and call the method again on it

[fair gull]

idk why theyd do that as python is slow af and i believe deep copy relies on c code

[reef patrol]

That would be some very impressive and insane gains. And very Apple to bullshit charts 😄

[cursive summit]

Indeed I hold no faith that they achieved anywhere near those gains

https://vxtwitter.com/_wildc/status/1719150026419490965

[fair gull]

we will see when its actually out i guess

[cursive summit]

This is just sad though

M3 Pro is scuffed

M3 Max seems the only one with genuine improvements

[reef patrol]

Only apple could make two seemingly high end ranges and make them appear that different.

Pro...or Max... Max or PRO.

[cursive summit]

Well I'm just happy that Apple is regressing

[wheat plume]

Share code along with a Word Document including snapshots with detailed explanation

they want me to show my work LOL

[cursive summit]

Well.. yes

[wheat plume]

idk how this shit works, what work to show??? ;-;

[cursive summit]

Embed the project file lol

Nah just screenshots will do

Standard practice

[wheat plume]

deepcopy() and copy() just output the same shit

how am I going to give a detailed explaination in that???

[cursive summit]

Cause.. it's a copy?

[wheat plume]

yeh

they want a detailed explaination on that like wtf?

[nimble canopy]

a word document???

[wheat plume]

"it copies the list" ...there done

🤦‍♀️

[fair gull]

they dont

you havent even read the article on stackoverflow

[wheat plume]

seems the same to me

[fair gull]

thats now how you check equality

reread the stackoverflow

and maybe use their equality checking code

[cursive summit]

Also ask AI

Very helpful

[fair gull]

no need this is a concept lana needs to learn asap for coding

quite important in a few langs

[nimble canopy]

make a shallow copy and then a deep copy
then change the data in the nested original data

[wheat plume]

he wants 4 copies, assume 2 of each type idk

[cursive summit]

https://vxtwitter.com/IanCutress/status/1719153647785771119

Lol what

Not even USB3?

Gigabit ethernet?

Like, why

[fair gull]

they list what they want exactly

[wheat plume]

hmmm

[fair gull]

you are basically writing code that should output similar patterns to what they showed using copies and array manipulation

[wheat plume]

??

no it cant be, the values arent changing in the original on the last two

[fair gull]

copy 1 and 3 are shallow copies

[wheat plume]

wat

1 and 2 are shallow

[cursive summit]

Perhaps there should be a separate channel for something like this?

[fair gull]

doesnt look like it to me

[cursive summit]

#software_talk?

[fair gull]

cause 2 cant be shallow

[wheat plume]

why not

[fair gull]

try it

and you will see

[wheat plume]

import copy

# Original object
document = [[1, 2, 3],
           [4, 5, 6]]

# Shallow copy
copy1 = copy.copy(document)
copy1[1][2] = 15
print("name=Original list= ", document)
print("name=Copy 1 list= ", copy1, "\n")

# Another shallow copy
copy2 = copy.copy(document)
copy2[0][2] = 3
print("name=Original list= ", document)
print("name=Copy 2 list= ", copy2, "\n")

# Deep copy
copy3 = copy.deepcopy(document)
copy3[1][0] = '456'
copy3[1][1] = 7
copy3[1][2] = 15
print("name=Original list= ", document)
print("name=Deep Copy 3 list= ", copy3, "\n")

# Another deep copy
copy4 = copy.deepcopy(document)
copy4[1][0] = '789'
print("name=Original list= ", document)
print("name=Deep Copy 4 list= ", copy4, "\n")

[fair gull]

if the output you posted above is from that your code doesnt work

cause copy2 is unchanged

[nimble canopy]

import copy

val = [[1,2,3]]

shallow = val.copy()
deep = copy.deepcopy(val)

val[0][0] = 25

print(val)
print(shallow)
print(deep)

[[25, 2, 3]]
[[25, 2, 3]]
[[1, 2, 3]]

[nimble canopy]

see how shallow has changed even tough i dint tuch it

but deep hasent

[wheat plume]

oh...

[fair gull]

copy2 is still untouched

oh i see

i misread the value you change

you change 3 to 3

makes sense its the same

[nimble canopy]

import copy

val = [[1,2,3]]

shallow = val.copy()
deep = copy.deepcopy(val)

val[0][0] = 25
shallow.append([10])

print(val)
print(shallow)
print(deep)

[[25, 2, 3]]
[[25, 2, 3], [10]]
[[1, 2, 3]]

shallow and val are difrent arrays
but in the array they still point to the same data

[wheat plume]

this is hard for me to follow ;-;

maybe I should not be a programmer

im too dumb

[nimble canopy]

do you know the difrents between primitives and objects

[fair gull]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyZmtVB7ofY

this goes through all 3 "copy" approaches

it explains what you dont understand lana: references

and it also shows why just console logging the content doesnt check if they are the same or not

[halcyon moss]

are they interrupting your news posting?

[fair gull]

software is not tech enough

obviously

[cursive summit]

Indeed

[halcyon moss]

😢 🌊

[wheat plume]

I hate needing to do this in Python, I have a hard time reading python to begin with and now adding new stuff onto it

[fair gull]

why did you apply for a python job then?

now im confused

[nimble canopy]

you need to do this in prety much all of them

[wheat plume]

they mentioned java and c#

not python yet they want python for this

[halcyon moss]

its all about references

[nimble canopy]

shallow copys and deep copys are fundemental to programming not just python

[wheat plume]

and now mom wont stop bothering me .-.

[halcyon moss]

with a copy you're copying references to objects
and with a deep copy you're not, by recreating the inner items

[pale sigil]

I cant dedicate much time to replying rn

so ill justr say

[fair gull]

well mostly important to interpreted languages

[pale sigil]

Fuck yo mum, she lame

[wheat plume]

never saw that syntax to assign a variable

[fair gull]

its a typed variable

[wheat plume]

yeh I see that

[cursive summit]

Where are your ;

[halcyon moss]

are those type hints?

[fair gull]

pretty sure its from the video

[nimble canopy]

sure in C its more explicit becous nested objects can al be inlined
once you have pointers you have to deal with it

[wheat plume]

yeh im watching the video Tony linked

[fair gull]

i feel like its not hidden though like in well all interpreted languages

c/cpp and pointers are way more direct

you can also avoid reference drama quite long doing python and other interpreted langs

[nimble canopy]

feels like a great way to shoot yourself in the foot

[fair gull]

it is

[wheat plume]

python is already too vague for my liking

[fair gull]

but thats the downside of it not being as fundamental as in c

[wheat plume]

what type is this? who tf knows

[nimble canopy]

go try zig then

[wheat plume]

will changing this effect that? who knows!

[fair gull]

cant really avoid pointers in c/cpp at all imo

[reef patrol]

Reminder: Threads are a thing. If you need to go indepth about something like a particular coding challenge, I encourage you to not spam the entire channel 😛

[fair gull]

maybe i just have a different view on this could be... my main view is c/cpp are much more memory layout focused and interpreted langs usually just focus on the variable part not revealing much of the actual underlying memory management part

really wonder if java has a similar concept

[nimble canopy]

no java is all objects on the heap
unless you use misc unsafe

[fair gull]

interesting

[nimble canopy]

it has short lived object optimazation but who nows when that is used

but project valhala is somthing they work on so you can have primitive objects

[wheat plume]

imma make thread...
wait how?

[reef patrol]

[nimble canopy]

permisions

[wheat plume]

not here either

[reef patrol]

There you go

[wheat plume]

LOL, thanks!

python help plz

[halcyon moss]

and vex was never seen again

[umbral heron]

ikr?
Usually there would be spam of Snapdragon Elite news here

[halcyon moss]

or cpu rumors

or gpu announcements

[umbral heron]

One day Vex decides to not enter Discord and we are whole day behind in tech news

[old marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-the-misery-oh-the-misery-everybody-wants-to-be-my-enemy-gif-25368312

[cursive summit]

Just went to take a shower

[cursive summit]

You have quin, no worries

https://www.techspot.com/news/100665-weird-storage-bug-android-14-locking-users-out.html

What now

How do you fuck that up lel

I'm telling you, the more you update your phone, the worse it works

[halcyon moss]

software is complicated and can have many sideeffects

[wheat plume]

🤔 yikes.... glad I dont use multiple profiles

[cursive summit]

https://www.businessinsider.in/tech/news/a-small-uk-software-company-which-trademarked-the-name-threads-over-10-years-ago-is-demanding-meta-stop-using-the-name-within-30-days/articleshow/104830946.cms fuck em up

[wheat plume]

Oh yeh, old news xd

[cursive summit]

So old it was today

[umbral heron]

What's the use for multiple profiles anyway? On the phone at that?

[wheat plume]

there was another article posted a while back that talkekd about this

[cursive summit]

You sure? Link

[wheat plume]

mainly for apps that do not support more than one account logged in at a time

[cursive summit]

Search function is at the top right

[umbral heron]

In the olden days we just logged out and logged in onto another account, kids these days, I swear!

[wheat plume]

https://tenor.com/tWmm.gif

[umbral heron]

I'm 25yo, I can already oldwhine at this point

[frozen ingot]

ngl am with mark on this one, fuck these people buying up domains/trademarking shit only to sit on them

[umbral heron]

It's a whole-ass trademark, not only domain
But yeah, fuck people parking domains

[old marlin]

it seems like they hade a very specific usecase

and didn't just make a very generic trademark

[vagrant pagoda]

Work/Personal, or if you have kids you can lock them to their profile when they use it I guess?

[reef patrol]

MHmm

[umbral heron]

I'd never want to have work/personal phone, but kids argument is valid

[vagrant pagoda]

Not even like corporate work think if you're self employed

[umbral heron]

Still, I'd rather have some cheap-ass phone for sms and calls only, so I can just turn it off in the night

[vagrant pagoda]

If you can just turn off the second Sim

That's what I do

I don't use multiple profiles though

[cursive summit]

Take your sedatives, grandpa

[umbral heron]

Ain't no time for sedatives, there's still 7 hours of work left

14 hours workdays ffs

[lofty pivot]

meh I wish apple would give realistic graphs so we can actually see how the gains look from m2 to m3

doesn't look like anyone would upgrade anyway beyond super high end use cases, m1 was too good for the typical usage

[cursive summit]

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-updates-its-free-media-comparison-tool-icat

The true Jensen appreciation experience

Look at him.. the ultimate kitchen oven master

There's prolly another 30kg package worth of silicon and whatever else cooking in there right now

[umbral heron]

Oh ffs
Jira's dead again
I have 40 minutes to cleanup whole month of work

[cursive summit]

https://vxtwitter.com/rowancheung/status/1719347795373555952

They added seeds?

That's incredible

[reef patrol]

It failed though?

[cursive summit]

What's failed, Jira?

[reef patrol]

The tablet no longer looks like tablet. It looks like...well a STONE tablet.

[cursive summit]

Well cause the person took the image on the right to modify

[umbral heron]

Nah, you can see on the top of second image he said "make an image like this, but add this"

[cursive summit]

You get multiple renditions, like 2 - 4, with single prompt with Dalle

[reef patrol]

Yes... I am comparing with the image on the right.

[cursive summit]

I like the modified more one

AI is genuinely a godsend as far as QoL is concerned

Doesn't replace proper artists, but is really good tool for artists and just normal peeps alike

[vagrant pagoda]

M3 is targeting M1, not M2

[ashen spindle]

and intel optinos from before

[vagrant pagoda]

M2 is a M1 refresh

M3 is a die srink

[umbral heron]

They do "tick-tock" Intel thing?

[ashen spindle]

not really

more by accident

[vagrant pagoda]

Thats the reason Apple kept selling m1 in the low-end stuff

M2 wasn't made to replace m1 all together

Also the mini and studio didn't get announced in m3 oddly

[ashen spindle]

not enough chips yet maybe

[vagrant pagoda]

Likely waiting on the ultra

[lofty pivot]

Honestly my M1 Max still kills everything I use it for, I don’t see upgrading until they do a redesign or similar

[vagrant pagoda]

Yeah

Apple has the issue of m1 being so good

People harp on the base model being 8gb

But they have never used a M1 8gb lol

[ashen spindle]

doesnt matter, ram is so fucking cheap now and the upgrades are a scam at these prices

[vagrant pagoda]

Always has been

IBM charged 5x market value for ram on the AT at release

[ashen spindle]

sure but always has been a complaint and just gets worse every time

sure, but dont care about that when calling this shit out

[vagrant pagoda]

I think the og PC was worse

[ashen spindle]

so?

[vagrant pagoda]

It isn't new

[ashen spindle]

and? doesnt make it any less scummy

[vagrant pagoda]

Yeah the OG PC was 1600, and cost 2000 bucks to go from 16k to 256kb

With the consumer market price of that same ram being closer to 500 bucks

So that isn't great, but the at was worse

[crystal halo]

My dad uses an 8gb m1 air every day for normal pc stuff and zero issues lol.

8GB Mac unified memory is a lot better managed than michaelsoft

[reef patrol]

At least you can add more for Michaelsoft.

[crystal halo]

But it’s a feature to make you buy a new computer lol

[crystal halo]

Not always unfortunately

Dell XPS moment

[ashen spindle]

I dont care if for usecases it works better or if it was worse in the past

its a scam how much they ask for more and how stingy they are

[reef patrol]

It's completely off the table with Apple. But it is an option on Windows/Linux based products as a whole, with exceptions of course.

If you expect me to buy a new computer every year, then sell me a subscription service instead and actually recycle the stuff properly 😛

[crystal halo]

Well my Mac is 2 years old and running as well as the day I bought it. My previous XPS was struggling a year after purchase lol.

[vagrant pagoda]

You can solder ram

[crystal halo]

Perhaps, but let’s be honest if you were in Apple’s shoes you’d want to make money too lmao

[reef patrol]

Uhhh.....

[ashen spindle]

yes but I'm not the biggest company on the planet try to screw people out of more money when its dirt cheap to have more ram

[vagrant pagoda]

M1/M2 are locked down on ram like the ssd

[crystal halo]

They’re a business. Businesses exist to make as much profit as possible, Apple is simply the best at it so easy to hate

[reef patrol]

Are you telling me to delid an M1 and try and solder off RAM from the package somehow? 😄

SOCs be like.

[crystal halo]

They’re not a charity LOL

[ashen spindle]

there is a big difference between being a charity and not asking for like 10x the regular price or whatever they charge for more ram now

I'm not saing dont have any profits

[crystal halo]

If you want more ram in your $2000 laptop, make your own multi trillion dollar company and get back to me on that

[ashen spindle]

no I will say it's a fucking shit deal because thats what it is

[crystal halo]

And people buy it because it’s the best laptop for their uses

[ashen spindle]

I dont care, that doesnt change what it is

[crystal halo]

Exactly

It doesn’t have to

If people were truly fed up by the prices they’d vote with their wallet and buy something else

It’s incredible how much horsepower I can get by simply walking into a store and buying a ready-to-go laptop where I’ve done zero R&D for

[ashen spindle]

they are charging 230€ for 8gb when it costs them less than 20€

[crystal halo]

Two words: research and development

[ashen spindle]

I really could not care less what the rest of the product does

[crystal halo]

I guess 3 words

Developing that SoC wasn’t free

[ashen spindle]

that part is a shit deal, makes entry cost look better than it is if you need it for higher specs for no good reason

my guy I'm not saying they should sell it for free

[crystal halo]

Their base laptops are incredibly powerful

[ashen spindle]

I'm saying you dont need >10x the actual cost

[reef patrol]

I am also not a billionaire.

[ashen spindle]

holy shit this is worse than the musk fans meme

[reef patrol]

I can keep a PC upgraded much cheaper and easily than buy a new Mac every few years.

[crystal halo]

Indeed you can, and that’s excellent. It’s what I do too for my desktop

[crystal halo]

Why not? People still gladly pay it, it funds future research & incentivizes them to make better laptops in the future.
Apple is simply making returns on their investment and it’s really easy to hate it because they’re successful

[ashen spindle]

It’s easy to hate because it’s a shit deal that everyone should hate

[reef patrol]

Ehhh... Can't agree with that. Apple or any similar company has never been driven by innovation but by profit.

[ashen spindle]

Holy shit you don’t need 10x the cost as price to finance R&D

[reef patrol]

More competition has literally shown time and time again that it breeds more innovation than profits.

[ashen spindle]

Which is already baked into prices of the rest of the machine

[lofty pivot]

No one buying a MacBook Pro buys it for value vs windows though. Very different use cases

[ashen spindle]

Sure that still doesn’t change how bad this is though

[crystal halo]

I got a simple solution for you, which you have obviously taken:
You’re not the target market don’t buy it

[ashen spindle]

Are people not allowed to point out something if they don’t own it now?

[lofty pivot]

I mean I agree, they shouldn’t change so much for ram, but it’s also not a huge deal either since the upper spec pros usually come with more ram anyway

[vagrant pagoda]

Yep

[reef patrol]

So valid criticism is merely being the wrong target market.

The target market being... people who want a computer that is competitively priced?

[vagrant pagoda]

Also remember apple is the only reason we have good laptops

[crystal halo]

Go buy a windows laptop then

[vagrant pagoda]

Remember laptops before the unibody MacBook?

[lofty pivot]

I’d assume most mac users don’t buy based on competitive pricing

[halcyon moss]

Sony did it first

[lofty pivot]

Maybe the ones who buy entry level airs for uni and such perhaps

[ashen spindle]

If someone artificially limits your ability to upgrade something yourself and sells you that option at 10x the price when they don’t even make that product I call that a scam or shit deal at best

[crystal halo]

Yeah and you really don’t have to buy it

[ashen spindle]

That’s not the point lol

[lofty pivot]

Usually it’s more that they put the default ram and such higher on the upper spec models

[crystal halo]

It’s not a scam if you get what you agreed to pay for lol.

[vagrant pagoda]

It isn't 10x the price

[ashen spindle]

230€ for 8gb? Yes

[lofty pivot]

For example you don’t pay the 10x ram price if you bought the M1 Max top end model since it upgraded the ram as part of the spec bump (but you’d pay more if you wanted even more ram on top of that)

[crystal halo]

Go make your own M3 system on a chip for 230 and get back to me

[ashen spindle]

What even if your argument, am I not allowed to want not insane prices for something that is just resold essentially

[vagrant pagoda]

Yeah and dell charges 200 for 8gb

[ashen spindle]

Ok and I’d complain the same there then

[crystal halo]

Isn’t it a coincidence

[vagrant pagoda]

Then it isn't apple issue

It's an industry issue

[lofty pivot]

Does Mac even have competition? I feel like the whole reason Apple charges what they charge is because they don’t have a comparable alternative

[crystal halo]

They’re so far ahead it ain’t even funny lol

[reef patrol]

Okay Steve Jobs.

[vagrant pagoda]

Air is comparable to the XPS plus

[lofty pivot]

I mean more for usage scenario for people buying pros

[crystal halo]

In the pro space I’m thinking is his thought process

[vagrant pagoda]

For pro laptops not even close

That's the main reason for the M1

[lofty pivot]

For just normal pc users sure. But for people who use it for work usage a lot of them just locked into Apple stuff already

I don’t really have an alternative laptop since I prefer Final Cut pro for editing

[vagrant pagoda]

The MBP is class of its own for weight/size to performance

[crystal halo]

Even then, performance on battery is something that Apple just wipes the floor

[vagrant pagoda]

For sure

It's comparable though

Which is why I said fell charges 200 for 8gb

[crystal halo]

Yeah

[vagrant pagoda]

The XPS 13 is that

Soldered ram

8 to 16 is 200

[lofty pivot]

And the software is so crazy fast when it’s optimised for Apple hardware

[crystal halo]

Problem with the XPS for me was I had to be tethered to the wall to get any decent performance

[vagrant pagoda]

I can't wait to see m3 rt

[crystal halo]

Once I went out on battery I had a choppy experience that lasted all of 4 hours

Courtesy of Intel processor lmao

[vagrant pagoda]

Yep

[lofty pivot]

when I bought my MacBook it wasn’t a matter of ‘what else non Apple can I buy’ but more ‘how much power do I need’ to decide which MacBook to buy

And at that point you’re just comparing Apple models vs other Apple models so windows machines didn’t even matter lol

[crystal halo]

I ended up buying the base 14” M1 Pro and I could not be happier for the performance I’ve enjoyed since then

I “only” have the 8c CPU and it’s silly fast

[vagrant pagoda]

I still pissed they don't sell the iMac screen

Dual or triple setup on the iMac would be dope

[crystal halo]

That would be very nice

Just take the m chip out of the iMac 24” and sell it for $700 lol

[vagrant pagoda]

I thought about using iMac to stream PC games

[lofty pivot]

I just view it as any other work purchase. Every maybe 4-5 years or whatever it is I’ll have to buy a MacBook Pro from Apple for whatever it is they cost at the time

Just like upgrading camera gear or lenses etc

[crystal halo]

Oh and you can sell that 4-5 year old MacBook for a decent chunk of change still, an XPS would be practically ewaste

[lofty pivot]

Now if I’m upgrading my gaming machine I’m very price sensitive though - but that’s cause I have alternative options for everything

[vagrant pagoda]

100%

The market for 4 year old laptops is shit

[crystal halo]

I bought my XPS 15 9510 with an 11800h / 3050 ti / 32 gb DDR4 for $2400, within two years I was barely able to get $1000 for it when I graduated Uni with my comp sci degree lol.

[vagrant pagoda]

During the peak mining craze

My buddy still got a 2080 laptop for under 2080 desktop MSRP let alone market

Because it was a year old

[astral haven]

youd be surprised

skylake + 10 series is bawling

[crystal halo]

During the peak mining craze I was able to snag like 11 or so GPUs over the months for friends at cost lol, I was a hero to my people

[vagrant pagoda]

They mean price wise

[crystal halo]

Yeah value in Washington’s in your pocket. Not worth selling

[astral haven]

ah but the macbook is awful to buy

[crystal halo]

Pretty good sell tho heh

[astral haven]

especially since its gonna be yeeted from support soon

[crystal halo]

Wym?

Apple has excellent support lol

[astral haven]

apple is yeeting intel 2025 or 6

[vagrant pagoda]

M1 is only 3 years old

[crystal halo]

I don’t blame them

[vagrant pagoda]

For 4 year old Mac is intel

[astral haven]

1 year longer than ppc was supported lel

[vagrant pagoda]

Xd

[crystal halo]

I have one Intel processor and it’s in my work laptop and he’s a power hungry beast who needs to be plugged in 24-7 lol

[astral haven]

my intel processor needs to be plugged in 24/7 too but thats because it is a desktop

[crystal halo]

I mean it doesn’t have to be plugged in

[astral haven]

but no intel is more efficient, apple just chooses to not make use of their capabilities

[crystal halo]

Huh? Arm performance per watt is way higher

[astral haven]

no

m1 perf/ watt is higher

but only in the apps that apple accelerates

[crystal halo]

Fair

Unoptimized garbage will be unoptimized garbage no matter the platform

[vagrant pagoda]

Also dual ppc towers are one of the dopest OEM systems

[astral haven]

remember an intel 2018 quad core has more cpu horsepower than the newest m2 max or ultra
the big 20 core one

around 250Tflops fp32

vs 240tflops

[crystal halo]

But uses 3-4x the power correct?

[astral haven]

nope

[vagrant pagoda]

Yes but the m2 max has like 10 times the GPU grunt

Mac's get better battery life because of macos

Not because of m1

[astral haven]

yup

[vagrant pagoda]

Windows is hot garbage for battery

And Linux doesn't even count

[astral haven]

windows does have a good battery saving mode

but you cant run anything besides wsapps

completely atrocious

its not like linux has good battery management either

it just does less

[vagrant pagoda]

Atleast being os Linux can have things like the deck do well

[astral haven]

but yea cpu alone m2 ultra maxes at 120w, where the skylake quad core I was thinking of uses around 105, but you also gotta add the chipset and ram so its just about even

[crystal halo]

Oh. Thought it was like 45W for some reason.

[astral haven]

it can be

but then its aloooooot less performance

but again thats raw compute power alone

no accelerators

besides simd

but simd is used for everything so its fine

[vagrant pagoda]

Run Linux on both and then bench

Running cpu only M1 isn't great

[astral haven]

im pretty sure thats what they were doing

not like linpack macos is that optimized

[vagrant pagoda]

I meant in general useage

[astral haven]

wow what a shocker

if you take a chip built around accelerating everything as much as possible and disable the accelerators, its not great

😱

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean for arm vs x86 power usage

[astral haven]

yes

x86 also takes a dump if you disable the accelerators

[vagrant pagoda]

Apple only went arm so they could do a full custom chip, not because it's better

[astral haven]

yup

[crystal halo]

This makes sense

[astral haven]

if apple had an x86 license, they would have built an x86 cpu

[vagrant pagoda]

No chance Intel would licence x86 or amd 64

[crystal halo]

But they didn’t have that

[astral haven]

not by choice

apple probably could have acquired AMD

[vagrant pagoda]

They like their dualopoly

[astral haven]

would still have been a duopoly lel

just with a bigger company on the other side

[crystal halo]

And created the mega corp amddle

[vagrant pagoda]

Apple could buy AMD and tsmc

[astral haven]

im not sure thats true

[vagrant pagoda]

And ruin Intel

[astral haven]

tsmc would be rough to acquire

very very very hard

definetly could have nabbed amd tho

[vagrant pagoda]

I meant just how bad that would be for intel

[astral haven]

yea it wouldnt be good at all

although it would have been alot worse 5 years ago

[vagrant pagoda]

Apple id already almost 50% of TSMC income

[astral haven]

id be shocked if intel isnt fabbing apple chips before 2030

despite how utterly trash lg and boe smartphone oleds are, apple still keeps trying to use them because they hate being single supplier

[vagrant pagoda]

Imagine what apple could do with Samsung oleds

[old marlin]

wdym

they use samsung oleds

[astral haven]

^

they just hate it

which is why they keep trying out alternatives and keep getting burned

[vagrant pagoda]

And Samsung doesn't do anything custom for them really

Apple would pay double for a better screen

[astral haven]

nope, and apple doesnt even use the latest gen panels

[old marlin]

yea cause that would mean they are even more reliant

[vagrant pagoda]

But Samsung won't sell it

[steep creek]

I read they’re trying to design custom screens but have Samsung / others make them lol

[astral haven]

they are working on microleds and uoleds

[steep creek]

Yeah

[astral haven]

pretty sure they are working with sony, but they are trying to make them themselves

thats one of the silicon fabs that noone expects

sony

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-outlines-One-UI-6-eligibility-for-25-devices-including-Galaxy-S20-and-Galaxy-Note-20-models.763867.0.html
we mentioned samsung tho

🤨 now thats pretty darn good

[old marlin]

wdym

[astral haven]

getting an unpromised os update

[old marlin]

ah

well they are at 5 years now

with their newere devices

[astral haven]

but they only made that promise for the newer devices

[old marlin]

A54 is a banger deal if you ask me

usually is at under 400€

gets 5 years

[astral haven]

its nice to see they are actually going retroactive

[old marlin]

yea is good to see

[vagrant pagoda]

Samsung over delivering on os updates is big news lol

[astral haven]

nah

the big news is them delivering updates they didnt say they would do

[old marlin]

is it?

they tend to be good with security patches

[astral haven]

that used to only be for their current and last gen of devices tho

my s21 has been getting security patches faster than my fkn iphone recently

[old marlin]

[vagrant pagoda]

That's called over delivering

[astral haven]

nah

over delivering is delivering 2 security patches within the same android patch

[vagrant pagoda]

Delivering more than what's promised, is over delivering

[astral haven]

https://doc.samsungmobile.com/SM-G998U1/TMB/doc.html

they released 2 updates on the september security patch

[vagrant pagoda]

I wonder how the m2 max will be on battery in performance mode

[astral haven]

they wont allow that

chip uses 120 watts, they arent gonna even let that exist in a laptop

[vagrant pagoda]

You didn't watch?

They said the new m3 series will do full performance on battery

Including the max

[astral haven]

maybe

but thats only gonna be by limiting the max performance to lower than the tdp of the m1 max

[vagrant pagoda]

Why

Just make the battery able to output the power

[astral haven]

thats definetly not the issue

they dont want the battery to drain in less than an hour of usage

if they arent actually just lying like they usually do, they will just limit the max tdp of the chip

think like laptop 4090

except if there wasnt a desktop 4090

or 4080

or 4070 lel

[astral haven]

this is like saying the a17 pro will do full performance on battery

well sure

but if you didnt limit the full performance, it would do better if it werent on battery

[vagrant pagoda]

Considering they said the full range will not lose any performance while unpluged

Idk what you think that means

[astral haven]

so imagine you have a 3175x

except its locked to 120 watts

[vagrant pagoda]

All chips are tdb limited lok

[astral haven]

then you stuff it in a laptop that can dissapate 130 watts easily

[vagrant pagoda]

If it's faster than the M2 the what's the matter

[astral haven]

sure but the 3175x is quite eaasily capable of 1kw

limiting it to 120 watts cripples the performance

limiting m3 to 65w may even be the limit of the chip

but it wont allow you to run an m1 max at full performance in a laptop

at least not an apple shaped laptop

heck apple may even be able to squeeze 120w worth of m1 performance out of 65w of m3

but it wont be the max performance of the chip

it will just be the max that apple allows

[vagrant pagoda]

M2 max isn't 120w though

[astral haven]

yea we have no idea what it does use

but a box with an m2 max and practically nothing else in it draws 200w

and apple says the soc alone is 120w
so we go with 120w

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean it only has 140w charger

Which is the same as the m2

[astral haven]

cool

thats not true on the full performance variant of the chip

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio/24-core-cpu-60-core-gpu-32-core-neural-engine-64gb-memory-1tb

this box draws 200w at max, and apple says the cpu is 120w worth of that

again

[vagrant pagoda]

The studio has the power to supply TB

[astral haven]

which is why it has a psu rated for something like 320w

yet it only draws 200 when you stress test it

look fam im very interested in getting the fastest computer for the lowest power

if apple did it, id get it

[vagrant pagoda]

Apple rates the M2 max at 145w

[astral haven]

which is why its no surprise that the cpu draws 120w when stress tested

[vagrant pagoda]

Ultra at 295w

[astral haven]

what

[vagrant pagoda]

That is draw in stress test

[astral haven]

im pretty sure the ultra doesnt draw 2x the max

oh wait it does

[vagrant pagoda]

https://support.apple.com/en-us/102027

[steep creek]

it should considering the ultra is just 2 maxes

[astral haven]

yea thats nice
good thing that apple rates their tdp numbers properly

[vagrant pagoda]

It wouldn't be crazy for apple to get the max down under 140w

[astral haven]

sure

[vagrant pagoda]

And just allow that on battery

[astral haven]

but they arent getting it down to the 60ish watt range that they target for their laptops

not without intentionally limiting it

[vagrant pagoda]

Fam

[astral haven]

which they may do

[vagrant pagoda]

They gave it 140w charger

Means it will draw around 130w max

[astral haven]

you said m1 max dude

[vagrant pagoda]

I meant m3

Lol

[astral haven]

yep

[vagrant pagoda]

They said m3 will not lose performance on battery

[astral haven]

and what im saying is they will only make the m3 do it by intentionally limiting the perf

[vagrant pagoda]

130w on battery is crazy, but doable

[astral haven]

yea but they cant do that

[vagrant pagoda]

Why not

[astral haven]

first of all the display consumes over 30 watts on those higher end devices

thems briiiiight

[vagrant pagoda]

Yeah and the 145w is a full running m2 max

[astral haven]

over 30 watts

[vagrant pagoda]

And you think the M3 will draw the same as a M2?

[astral haven]

yes

unless apple intentionally cripples it

[vagrant pagoda]

Fam setting a tdp isn't crippling

100% the studio could run high clocks if it was bigger

That isn't crippling

[astral haven]

that im not sure about

the studio is reasonably cooled

and even with the ultra, the mac pro vs studio performance is about on par

[vagrant pagoda]

For 300w? No way

[astral haven]

youd be surprised

the studio is incredibly well cooled

at least as long as you dont block the vents

and even if you do the hide it under a table in a corner trick that folks do with their macs, it takes a while to heat up

[vagrant pagoda]

Also the studio v MBP is about 2-5% different

Which is likely all cooling

For the M2 max

[astral haven]

in what

be specific

😛

[vagrant pagoda]

Cinebench, geekbench, etc

[empty wren]

Disappointing discount for black friday

[halcyon moss]

its black friday?

[empty wren]

Not yet no

But some marketplaces start deals early

[astral haven]

citation needed on the cinebench, tho if you only run it for a short time, sure

geekbench isnt long enough to throttle

thats how the scores are so close to desktop on phones

ok in a 4 ish minute render, the mac studio is only around 12% faster

imagine if you had lets say a hour render

cause in a 1 minute geekbench test they are about the same

[steep creek]

for example the 14 macbook throttles faster than the 16. i think the studio is able to sustain a lot longer

[astral haven]

yup

its also not like apple is maxing out the chips on the studio either before

[old marlin]

why is that disappointing

[vagrant pagoda]

Im not talking about sustained

[astral haven]

aaaaand here come the asterisks

[vagrant pagoda]

The M1/M2 MBP throttled always when unpluged

[astral haven]

nope

[old marlin]

[vagrant pagoda]

It was forced and nothing to do with thermals

Yes they did

[old marlin]

textbook definition of moving the goalposts

[vagrant pagoda]

They run faster plugged in

[vagrant pagoda]

No

[astral haven]

after a few seconds sure 😛

[vagrant pagoda]

I said same performance unplugged as plugged

[astral haven]

thats not what you said

[vagrant pagoda]

Yes I did

[astral haven]

ok you said that eventually

[vagrant pagoda]

That's from the announcement

[astral haven]

after moving the goalposts the first time

[vagrant pagoda]

No

[astral haven]

but its also not true

[vagrant pagoda]

This

You missed that

I guess

That's what started this

[astral haven]

yep and thats an entirely different statement from same performance unplugged as plugged

its also not true

but its an entirely different statement

[vagrant pagoda]

It's from the announcement and it's in the site

[astral haven]

its potentially possible that the macbooks will do full performance on battery

but the chips themselves will not

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean until they release a desktop it's true

[astral haven]

no

[vagrant pagoda]

Yes

If you can't get it any faster, then it's running full speed

Lol

[astral haven]

again if i release a 3175x that is locked to 120w
and lets say i call it the 3175
i am not getting the full performance of the 3175 at 120w

i am getting the same performance on a laptop at 120w and a normal 3175, but thats not the same as the full performance of the chip

[vagrant pagoda]

But if the faster option doesn't exist

You have the fastest

As of right now there is no m3 desktop

Only iMac and MB a/p

[astral haven]

and sure if that was what you said, that would be true

but you said full performance

[vagrant pagoda]

Yes

Full performance right now is the laptop

There is no desktop that runs a M3 faster

[astral haven]

ion

[steep creek]

was this statement exclusive to the m3? if im not mistaken then you could also get full performance on m2

[astral haven]

again using the wrong word

[frozen ingot]

black friday has only gotten increasingly disappointing for every year going back to like 2017

[astral haven]

its not the full performance of the chip

its the same performance of the laptop

[vagrant pagoda]

M2 pro and max are slower unplugged

It's a hard power limit

[astral haven]

not by your metrics lel

[steep creek]

yea i see

[vagrant pagoda]

The laptops literally limit power when unplugged

[astral haven]

in a 1 minute test they perform the same

pl2 is the same

pl1 is different

tau is different

and sure pl2 may be the same on studio and laptop (which while it isnt true, is less false)
pl1 and tau are very different

[astral haven]

but neither pl1 nor pl2 are the "full performance" of the chip

again if i sell a system with a 3175x limited to 120w pl2, one has tau of 1 second, one has tau of a minute
neither are the full performance of the chi

the full performance of the chip is a pl2 of 1200w

[cursive summit]

Ah the weekly ionstorm and someone else bickering episode

Now it's about Apple?

[astral haven]

the performance of the systems are the same within pl2, but neither are getting the full performance of the chip

[vagrant pagoda]

There isn't an option for more power though

So until this is, it's full performance

[astral haven]

you can hold that opinion, but its pretty clearly wrong

[vagrant pagoda]

How is it wrong

Show me the M3 product that can use more power?

[astral haven]

take one of those laptops, and just strap a fan to the bottom

boom more performance

[vagrant pagoda]

Yeah it will be the same plugged or battery though

So no change

[astral haven]

yep

[vagrant pagoda]

That's the whole fucking statment

The M2 will throttle more on battery

Even with the fan

Because the battery can't keep up

[astral haven]

possible
but neither plugged or unplugged does the laptop get the full performance of the chip, not without modification

[vagrant pagoda]

Don't know why you try to avoid the actual statement

[astral haven]

the statement apple made is while debatable, technically true

[steep creek]

joking will a model s plaid also perform better wired than on battery lol

[astral haven]

what you said is definetly not

[vagrant pagoda]

With some asinine argument that isn't related