🔌│tech

[ashen spindle]

am5 is set in fine by now

but yeah for solidworks or such probably still an i7 if we stay on desktop

at least till early next year

[hardy idol]

whats happening early next yar

[ashen spindle]

zen5

[hardy idol]

new offerings from intel?

ooh

whens the new intel launch tho

[ashen spindle]

rpl-refresh gives you like 5% more sometimes later this year

[hardy idol]

i feel like intel will forever dominate solidworks

and for gaming both brands will work, doesnt really matter (i thnk?)

[ashen spindle]

basically next amd gen is looking really great and intel is looking really bad next gens

[hardy idol]

really

mhm

why is intel looking bad

[ashen spindle]

basically internal predictions got leaked and intels own numbers look really sad

[hardy idol]

ah

so next intel wont be much of an upgrade

next amd will i guess

[ashen spindle]

next 2 intel*

[hardy idol]

the question is

will new amd beat the current i7 for solidworks

or in general tasks

[ashen spindle]

assuming nothing goes wrong now (always could be tbf) it will win

[rough osprey]

atleast more efficient?

[hardy idol]

So it´s better for me to wait if i want to build a new pc

Also, when is novideo RTX 5000 going to launch

[ashen spindle]

we know it comes out H1 2024, I personally guess CES in january will ben zen5 announcement

[ashen spindle]

2025

[hardy idol]

okay so no reason to wait for that

kinda need a new pc in the coming half year

youre right

i will make a configuration

and i guess ill buy most parts then

mobo and cpu will have to wait until zen5 then

rest i can start gathering

I want a 4090 white

I will need to put more effort into it but

this gave me the idea

to get something like this

but I´ll need to actually make a proper file that can be printed

and I need to find someone to do it

[thorny mirage]

How much more does the white cost

[hardy idol]

dont know

but im going for a white build

but thermal performance

[ashen spindle]

amd has avatar cards for the december launch

saphire recolors

[hardy idol]

mhm but printed is extra cool i think

I could always sticker I think?

actually thats probably best solution

if theyre heat resistant

Dutch people that are able to print and cut heat resistant stickers hmu!!!

i mean not necessarily dutch tbh but would be easier i feel like

[mild dome]

Bliz is desperate to try and win back some players

Ads have flooded Sydney for one

[rough osprey]

looking cool

[hardy idol]

I feel like this is them cheaping out rather than actually printing it

A friend suggested them to me too

But I'd rather sticker and best would be UV print like Mansen suggested

As soon as you introduce color and imagery
Not really unless white

Yeah but easier to print on a sheet than to remove backplate, print on it, put it back on

Also you'd want a light coloured backplate for best results

(i think)

Really?

So if i want my Violet Evergarden gpu backplate from a white gpu

What

Yes.
I consider the asus way to be higher quality

It looks and feels more premium

Bla bla frankly I don't really care

It looks good. End of story

If you want something nice, you'll have to pay for it usually

[astral haven]

consider the cyberpunk 2080ti

[hardy idol]

Gonna say that was a better way to do it!

@young pecan

For solidworks, which is usually a single core high freq workload

The 7800X3D won't do it

Yes it's my consideration for team red

[young pecan]

This isn't telling the full story since synthetic benchmarks like Cinebench can't properly take 3D cache into account.

[hardy idol]

But I think the i7 will be sweeter for my goals

[astral haven]

well thats not true

[young pecan]

Well, kinda but sorta no.

[hardy idol]

Ok get me a comparison solidworks 7800X3D vs intel i7

[astral haven]

but this is also not true

[young pecan]

^

[hardy idol]

In what aspect
I don't need to render much

Most of it is modeling

Solidworks likes to use one core especially

It will use others but afaik it mostly uses one

[astral haven]

heavy use of a single code doesnt mean the workload relies on serial processing

[young pecan]

Take the RAM into account, yeah? 3D cache means your timing can be slower without impacting perf, meaning you can do 24 gig sticks versus 16 gig sticks. In big workloads that'll be a direct upgrade.
With Intel the slower CAS will hurt perf.

[hardy idol]

Get me a solidworks graph

[astral haven]

the ryzen cpus are higher bandwidth, where the intel cpus are better at serial applications

[astral haven]

thats also not particularly true thanks to the immense bottlenecks of the ccd to iodie link

[young pecan]

Huzzah for putting the cache on top of the chip.

Yeah that's true, though note I'm not meaning 'yeah just don't care', I'm meaning the fastest 48 gig kit vs the fastest 32 gig kit isn't going to have a real world impact.

[astral haven]

intel can hit 100GB/s bidirectional on dual channel ddr5 and can hit that on a single core
7000 can max out at 35GB/s write and 70GB/s read on a single core

average across all cores 7000 can do 70GB/s bidirectional with 2 ccds but its still not a given that a workload using only a single core will benefit from the cache

[young pecan]

And like idk, at the stage of like removing maybe a percent or two performance but you're pushing up 8 gigs of RAM per stick... not worth sacrificing capacity.

[astral haven]

the real problem tho is that puget systems doesnt benchmark solidworks any more

[young pecan]

The biggest tragedy.

[hardy idol]

This is true

I hate them for it

[young pecan]

Ok but like... which tasks?

[hardy idol]

Doing your mom

[young pecan]

Kek

But no, that only tells you 'yeah one is faster in tasks defined as work'. Ok cool so that's hitting any and all parts of the CPU depending on your task.

Can't work off that info.

[hardy idol]

You're making up excuses

Because I am right and you are wrong

[young pecan]

I'm not seeing any actual data or named tasks.

[astral haven]

you have no proof, therefore my evidence that it came to me in a dream that you are wrong is equally valid

[young pecan]

Actually tbh why are we even considering Ryzen or i7?

Threadripper HEDT is soon.

[astral haven]

hedt is slower than msdt in solidworks

[ashen spindle]

just wait for zen5

[hardy idol]

Also the i7 is already an 8 core wtf

[astral haven]

and ryzen hedt is particularly awful

https://www.pugetsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/SW-CPU.jpg

heres the most recent puget benchmarks

[young pecan]

We haven't had Ryzen HEDT since gen 2, no?

[hardy idol]

Once again proves Solidworks likes high clocks

It's all I ever experienced with these machines

[young pecan]

WX are workstation chips.

[hardy idol]

I know

[young pecan]

Lower core speed.

[astral haven]

wrong

[hardy idol]

I've used xeons too

All slow

[ashen spindle]

wx is TR pro

[astral haven]

tr pro boosting is the same as regular tr

at the same core count and power limit, it clocks the same

[ashen spindle]

tr pro is even closer to epyc thanr egular TR was

[young pecan]

No but both are slower than Ryzen, I mean.

[hardy idol]

What if I get an i3 and overclock it to the moon

Also is that uh

[young pecan]

Nah. Do Pentium.

[astral haven]

slower yes
but lower core clock? no

[young pecan]

Run LN2 daily.

Overclock go brrrrrrrr

[astral haven]

threadripper is slower because the ram latency to each individual core is worse

[hardy idol]

Does siliconlottery still exist

The company

[astral haven]

nope

[hardy idol]

Where you buy cpu and the tune for it

[astral haven]

died thanks to modern boost

[hardy idol]

Wdym

[young pecan]

Just more advanced boost software.

Zen2 did a big jump, no?

[ashen spindle]

deterministic boosting goes high depending on how good the chip is so it does the boosting based on how good the chip is

[hardy idol]

But there's still better and worse chips right

[astral haven]

intel has lowered their variance on cpus to negligable levels, and ryzen you can just benchmark it directly to see how good it is and no tuning will get you a better result

[ashen spindle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUeZQ3pky-w

basically the same

[astral haven]

the amount by which chips are better and worse is similar to the precision by which you can reasonably benchmark

[ashen spindle]

also just hibernate for like 2 quarters and zen5 will answer your questions on what to get ez

[hardy idol]

That's the most expensive test ever lmao

[young pecan]

Ngl threadripper might be a serious contender. Especially if zen5 is still retarded bad PCIe lane count.

[hardy idol]

Honestly stuff like that

That makes Tech Jesus worthy of saying LTT does bad research

[astral haven]

name one benefit of threadripper for solidworks?

[hardy idol]

No

[hardy idol]

This

What do I need PCIe for

[young pecan]

More lanes more good. Means more hardware in the PC.

Like anything fast lmao.

[hardy idol]

I need GPU, drives uhh

[ashen spindle]

yeah but zen5 ST goes brrr

[astral haven]

thats not a threadripper benefit

[astral haven]

thats also not a threadripper benefit

[hardy idol]

Solidworks files aren't big either btw

[ashen spindle]

ofc im not talking TR

[young pecan]

HEDT has 64 lanes. More lanes is more shit that goes in the PC, yes that's a threadripper benefit?

Well, 64 minimum.

[astral haven]

ah but thats not specific to threadripper

and threadripper has direct measureable disadvantages particularly around single thread workloads thanks to latency

[young pecan]

When we're talking about the alternative being mainline Intel or AMD that're both on 24 still? Yes that is a direct benefit by comparison.

Honestly I'd gladly lose some speed for more lanes. Holy shit please.

[astral haven]

why are you limiting to that?

[hardy idol]

Why do I need more lanes

[young pecan]

Beeeecause both mainline Intel and AMD CPUs only have 24 lanes.

[young pecan]

GPU takes 16, each NVMe drive takes 4, put any more than 2 drives in the PC and you cut GPU performance by making it run on 8.

[astral haven]

ok so you forget xeon and epyc?

[astral haven]

thats not true

[hardy idol]

Yeah that's exactly the plan

And I'll use a harddrive for games

[young pecan]

Neither of those are actual options for this for obvious reasoning. The context is comparing against mainline Intel and AMD.

[hardy idol]

And sata SSDs for art and music storage

[young pecan]

Well actually no Intel is doing HEDT aren't they?

Weird to think about.

[astral haven]

but thats wrong, the context is against systems that can be bought

at the moment intel is selling hedt for the price of top end AMD msdt

[young pecan]

Oh c'mon, that's being pedantic. Nobody is buying an Epyc for solidworks.

[astral haven]

why not?

literally threadripper but better

and cheaper

and a gen ahead

or even cheaperrer at the same gen

[young pecan]

You'd run into issues with single core for the same reason as threadripper, no?

[hardy idol]

The context is I'm considering buying a new desktop PC that will do everything

General use, gaming, but also productivity which is mainly solidworks
I have no reason to have 20398383 cores, but Solidworks likes high clocks

I am sure most processors will also do the gaming well
Gaming also doesn't require 10 million cores

[astral haven]

why?
xeon doesnt do CCDs and IODies

[young pecan]

Yes I retracted that for Xeon.

Talking Epyc there.

[astral haven]

https://www.pugetsystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/CB_Single_Xeon_2400.png

[hardy idol]

24 cores bruh

[astral haven]

epyc is just better because its the same thing for cheaper or better

[hardy idol]

Istg might as well turn off hyperthreading

If you're gonna have 24 real cores

[young pecan]

rolls eyes HEDT historically doesn't start at giga high cores. That's more server territory. Most HEDT has started aroundish 12 cores, though that's well before the nuts Epyc and Threadripper boom recently.

8 in some old platforms.

[astral haven]

or current platforms

[hardy idol]

I had a xeon hexacore

[ashen spindle]

for solidworks only genoa-x might do insanely well but wouldn't want that for gaming xD

[hardy idol]

Get old one though

[young pecan]

Genoa-X is an interesting platform.

The board price scares me tho.

[hardy idol]

Holy fucking mother of God

96 cores

1.3 GB L3

[ashen spindle]

I mean thats just normal genoa

[hardy idol]

😂

[ashen spindle]

that part yeah

[hardy idol]

My brother in christ in not rendering 8k Hentai

[young pecan]

Ok so when are we booting Doom from the cache?

[ashen spindle]

(yet)

[astral haven]

again tho doubt since it misses on ST since solidworks doesnt seem to really be cacheable

[ashen spindle]

in 1.3gb it might be

[astral haven]

ah but 1.3gb is wrong

if you have a single core workload you still only get 96MB

[young pecan]

96 gig cache.

Let's go.

Fuck storage fr.

[ashen spindle]

yeah idk how well solidworks splits it up

[astral haven]

oops

[ashen spindle]

anyway I just stay with take zen5 in 2 quarters and go sleep

[young pecan]

Rn we have to see but more PCIe lanes is honestly better than slow shit components with nothing expansion and fast CPU.

I like all of my shit fast, not just my CPU and GPU until I need more drives.

[astral haven]

obviously not well considering a 3995wx loses to a 32 core with less cache

[astral haven]

if you want that, you go intel with the 2400x

[young pecan]

Like yeah that's what I want. A single GPU and 4 NVMe SSDs and then if my networking breaks then I guess I'm fucked lmao.

[astral haven]

or if you really need it 3400x also exists

[hardy idol]

Not when you have Solidworks PDM
Then you basically download the file from the server and upload it back when youre done

You only need 1 graphics card and one SSD

For modeling, go fast. It really matters

[astral haven]

but $/lane xeon w 2400 wins big time

at least vs threadripper

epyc is a different story

[hardy idol]

And have 1 rendering beast if you need to render
Or endure it when it takes a bit longer those few times you have to render

Depends on how much you render, I don't often do

[young pecan]

If the PC is for everything then we don't load down all of the shit on one drive. You said you wanted to actually get good perf for everything, that goes against that.

Split OS, game drive, work drive.

Then you want room just in case networking dies or whatever.

[hardy idol]

Likely going wsl2

Also

[young pecan]

Loading everything onto one drive just means your IOPS start kicking your dickhole and everything crawls.

Gross.

[hardy idol]

2 big NVMe SSD
1 storage HDD or SSD for art and music
1 storage SSD for games

Is my honest reaction to your supposed issue

[astral haven]

actually aeon heres a puzzle for you
i have a 4.0x16 gpu, a 3.0x8 nic, and 6 pcie x4 ssds
what is the platform i use given that i do not have a single one of those devices that is in any way bottlenecked

[young pecan]

shrugs SATA SSD for games is dogshit for some things, especially if DirectStorage takes off.

[young pecan]

Hmmm...

Do I get a clue as for how new it is?

[astral haven]

the pcie 4 x16 gpu not being bottlenecked

[hardy idol]

Dualcpu

Get a server board

[hardy idol]

Why is it not fine then
If its fine now

[astral haven]

oh wait i also have another 4.0x4 ssd that isnt bottlenecked either

the fastest 4.0x4 ssd for that matter

[young pecan]

Given what you do for fun is similar to me, I'm gonna have to eyeball maybe new Intel.

[astral haven]

is that your guess?

[ashen spindle]

~~new intel? raptor refresh for 5% more? ~~misread that

[young pecan]

Mhmm. Whatever the current gen codename is.

Xeons.

[astral haven]

wrong

am4

[hardy idol]

Explain me this Aeon
Why is games on an SSD a sin if I want it for my new PC
When I do the exact same thing now

[young pecan]

Ok so how exactly is that not bottlenecking? There aren't enough lanes to do 1:1 and shit all boards support that kind of splitting.

How much did you spend lmao?

[astral haven]

$230

on top of the system normally

[young pecan]

Ah.

Did you buy an actual raid card?

[astral haven]

nope

pcie switch card

[young pecan]

No no. SATA SSD bad, NVMe SSD good.

[astral haven]

https://www.newegg.com/linkreal-lrnv9349-8i-u-2/p/14G-0600-00047

[young pecan]

DirectStorage is an interesting tech and is probably going to lead into new developments, but the gist is that you need NVMe, can't use SATA for it.

[astral haven]

the x570 ws ace has an x8 3.0 slot on the bottom that doesnt take away any lanes from the gpu

[young pecan]

Bruh. That's got a PLX chip, I was right.

[hardy idol]

What if I just buy the biggest NVMe drives available today and back those up to a harddrive

[ashen spindle]

with how its currently looking sata ssd still works but there is just no benefit to still using sata ssd really since they kinda cost the same

[astral haven]

you were wrong you thought you needed a xeon

[young pecan]

If you want to avoid fuckery with raid cards? Yes you need more than 24 lanes.

[astral haven]

but not fancy platform BS

[young pecan]

But yeah sure if we start fucking around with raid cards and logic cards then that's viable. Most people don't have the knowledge or desire to touch that, however.

[astral haven]

this was 1 card that allows me to run all that i need on a standard consumer platform

[hardy idol]

Yeah but i don't have 40 NVMe slots on the mamaplate

[astral haven]

ah but this isnt a raid card

[young pecan]

Whatever, it's an adapter with a PLX chip.

[hardy idol]

Aeon you're a sore loser 😘

But a loser nonetheless

[astral haven]

and its quite capable of allowing each and every device on it to be run without bottlenecking without needing a xeon

[hardy idol]

❤️

[astral haven]

or threadripper

or epyc or anything else with an excessive amount of lanes

[young pecan]

Oh shush, the only difference between that thing and an actual raid card is that it doesn't actually support the firmware.

[young pecan]

Also this is gold plated bullshit.

You should absolutely know better.

[astral haven]

its $230 direct from china, $280 on newegg

[young pecan]

The card is 8 lanes, if you have enough shit connected to it and hit them at once then you bottleneck.

[astral haven]

thats an order of magnitude cheaper than a new platform

[young pecan]

8 connectors, that bottlenecks the fuck out of 8 lanes.

PLX chips are a perfect solution if you aren't hitting things simultaneously. Or doing software raid for that same reason.

[astral haven]

sure but each device isnt bottlenecked because my system and none of my workloads are capable of reaching the level of bandwidth it can provide

[young pecan]

And if you wanted to run RAID for redundancy? Same issue.

[astral haven]

or if you are hitting things simultaneously but not maxing out the bandwidth of the interface

[young pecan]

It's a good solution in only some cases, but is by no means perfect.

[astral haven]

the number of cases in which it doesnt work are quite limited

you will struggle to find someone able to construct a system which does run into those issues

[young pecan]

Like running any advanced raid with NVMe drives that's using more than 2 drives? Like a RAID 5?

Or a RAID 10.

[astral haven]

actually works fantastically with plx since its heavily bottlenecked by the cpu

you forget how fast these interfaces are

[young pecan]

The lane limitations will still hit you.

[astral haven]

they will not hit me

[young pecan]

8 connectors to 8 lanes ain't it with NVMe. SATA sure.

But not NVMe.

[astral haven]

nor will they hit anyone building a reasonable system

keep in mind i have tested this

[young pecan]

And somehow a RAID 5 is unreasonable?

[astral haven]

its reasonable

but it doesnt hit the bottlenecks you describe lol

[young pecan]

Or say a RAID 1 for the OS and a RAID 0 for like a game drive or something? That's going to bottleneck almost all the time.

Or even 3 RAIDs.

[astral haven]

ok aeon how about raid 0

[young pecan]

Like these are not uncommon for work machines.

[hardy idol]

But uh yeah so uh

[astral haven]

how much bandwidth do you think each of these systems can output via the network

[hardy idol]

The solidworks cpu question

[astral haven]

threadripper with physical 1:1 lanes in my server vs the same drives in my am4

[young pecan]

PC -> Network or PLX -> PC

[astral haven]

crystaldiskmark on the pc

[young pecan]

Right so PLX -> PC.

[astral haven]

vs crystaldiskmark on the server

having moved over the same drives in a raid 0

windows software raid 0

literally ripped out of el pc and stuffed into el server

[young pecan]

How many drives in the RAID 0?

[hardy idol]

Wasnt raid 0 dumb raid

[astral haven]

6 pcie x4 drives tho technically its 3 pcie x8 drives

[astral haven]

yep but it also maxes out capacity and speed which was what i wanted

[hardy idol]

Ah okay

[young pecan]

And their PCIe version?

[hardy idol]

Afaik raid0 is very risky id one dies

[young pecan]

Yep.

[astral haven]

2

[young pecan]

Bruh.

No shit that isn't bottlenecking, none of them can saturate that slot even at 4x.

[astral haven]

quite capable of a million iops tho per x4 which is quite a bit faster than most modern nvmes

[hardy idol]

A rebuildable raid

Is what I wanr

[young pecan]

But here's the thing, it's pretty cool. We're on PCIe 5.0 now.

[hardy idol]

If I wanted to raid

[astral haven]

ah but these drives are faster for most applications than those pcie 5 drives...

[young pecan]

RAID 5/6/50/60.

Which drives exactly are they?

[astral haven]

iodrives

[hardy idol]

Whatthe fuck is 50 or 60

[astral haven]

iodrive 2 duo to be exact

[hardy idol]

Is that 5+10

[astral haven]

5+0 / 6+0

[hardy idol]

Oooh

[young pecan]

A 5 is 3 or more drives with one taken for parity, a 50 is two 5s with redundancy. So a full RAID 5 can die before you lose data.

Same goes for 6.

[astral haven]

thats not correct

you are thinking of 51

[young pecan]

Ah yeah I'm retarded.

I meant 51.

[astral haven]

50 is 2 5s, striped, doubling the speed

[young pecan]

Yeah.

[hardy idol]

Always knew that

Watch him reply with kek

[astral haven]

but anyways all of these are actually awful

raid 5 is dead, cpus are too slow

raid cards are also 2 slow

adding levels of raid on top is just compounding the slowness

nowdays we use ZFS if we want reliability or speed

and we just use mirroring and striping if we dont

zfs combined with tiered storage will be insanely more reliable and faster than anything that can be acheived with classical parity alone

[hardy idol]

So RAID is completely out the window nowadays

[young pecan]

Ngl if you're doing this actually correctly you do 3:2:1 with a local ZFS store for backups and just RAIDZ2 this shit locally for speed.

zVol go brrrrrrrrrrr

[astral haven]

except for raid 0 and 1

[hardy idol]

But they're dangerous!!!

[young pecan]

RAID 1 isn't.

[astral haven]

nah raid 1 is safer than raid 5

[young pecan]

That mirrors the data across drives so you can lose all but one without losing data.

[hardy idol]

Oh raid 1 is 2 disks same shit?

[young pecan]

Yeh.

[astral haven]

ye

[hardy idol]

Ahh good

Okay so

[astral haven]

and raid 0 is only 2x the failure rate of a single drive

[young pecan]

Not just 2 disks either.

[astral haven]

and you get 2x the speed

[young pecan]

You can do like 7 with a RAID 1.

Just lose 6 drives.

[astral haven]

you can do infinite raid 1 its just dumb asf

[young pecan]

Ikr.

Now that's kinda stupid tbh.

Mirrored RAID 0 is where it's at.

ZVOL GO BRRRRRRRRRRRR

[astral haven]

pure raid 0 with backups is better Imo

[young pecan]

I mean one or two mirrors just to avoid downtime and backups, yes.

[astral haven]

esp if you compress the backups to be able to keep more

[hardy idol]

Hear me out

What if I stick 2 8TB nvme drives on the board

Raid 1

[young pecan]

Still, back to the point a PLX card is dumb stupid if you're trying to connect more than 4 drives that're actually modern.

[hardy idol]

[young pecan]

That's valid. You'd get 8TB with one failure tolerance.

[astral haven]

except its not
every single drive will be accessed at its full speed as long as you have 2x or more the host bandwidth available

[hardy idol]

Yeah and 2k worth of NVMe drive

Don't really have that kinda money fam

[hardy idol]

Also insane speed right

[young pecan]

And this is not true if you're doing multiple RAIDs or all of the system drives on the PLX card.

[astral haven]

actually no
raid 1 is 1x the write speed

[young pecan]

^

RAID 0 and 10 give speed.

1 is pure redundancy.

But like 10 is expensive as fuck.

[astral haven]

except as we have already determined, raid isnt the way to go, and again you still have yet to provide an example of a consumer example that will run into any bottlenecking

[hardy idol]

So id need 0

But I'd run risk

OR

[astral haven]

no you should just use separate drives if you are running nvme

[hardy idol]

Back up the 0 drives to a NAS

[astral haven]

raid is for slow sata drives

[young pecan]

It's specifically a work PC and pulling the 'but a consumer probably won't see it' is a bad argument to make when this is designed to do a lot of high stress things at the same time.

[hardy idol]

You don't benefit from it anymore at that point or

[astral haven]

except thats not the argument I made mr strawman?

[astral haven]

the raid itself slows down the speed of the drives if they are nvme

[hardy idol]

Really

[astral haven]

even raid 0 of nvmes is slower than the drives alone unless you have one of the very tiny number of true raid cards and even those crater your iops

[young pecan]

??? You literally said "example of a consumer example that will run into any bottlenecking", yes this isn't common for most people, but this PC is intrinsically going to be under higher load. An overwhelming majority isn't doing WSL2, for example.

[astral haven]

i meant consumer as opposed to producer

[hardy idol]

Also do I use an old PC to uh

[astral haven]

as in server apps

[hardy idol]

Backup

[young pecan]

Server apps are not the only apps that can screw with a system like this.

Let's say you run the OS and game array on the PLX card, if the OS updates at all and the game is running anything DirectStorage derived then that's instant bottlenecking.

[astral haven]

wrong

windows os updates are quite severely cpu bottlenecked
and even on my optane drives, games are iops bottlenecked

[young pecan]

That's a minimum of 3 NVMe drives being hit, DirectStorage should be able to saturate the bandwidth, anything past that is bottleneck.

8 lanes can't do that.

[astral haven]

it cant

[hardy idol]

Do u like optane

[young pecan]

Optane is funny.

[astral haven]

windows updates cannot even get close to saturating a single lane of nvme

[hardy idol]

Optane were the cards right

[young pecan]

They also had M.2 Optane drives.

[young pecan]

Read what I said again.

[astral haven]

again keep in mind tho that maxing out an nvme doesnt mean running out of pcie bandwidth

[astral haven]

🪞

[young pecan]

If the PLX card is doing it's job? Yes.

[astral haven]

name a single nvme that can saturate its own interface in iops

[young pecan]

We're not talking about a single NVMe are we?

[hardy idol]

I wanna stay awake for this discussion but

242 am lmao

[young pecan]

I actually have to ditch as well. Got a meeting in 20 mins.

[hardy idol]

What

[young pecan]

Need to get ready.

[astral haven]

ok so find a single nvme that can saturate 1/4 of its interface that isnt the 5800x in linux

[young pecan]

Your card has 8 slots.

[hardy idol]

Respectfully I totally forgot you had a job?

[young pecan]

Then again PLX cards exist with 2.

[astral haven]

and 8 lanes

[young pecan]

I run a company. -_-

[hardy idol]

Uhhhhhhh

Yeah I 100% forgor

What do you guys do

[young pecan]

Game dev.

[hardy idol]

Ah what are you devving

[young pecan]

Wait and see like everyone else. :p

[hardy idol]

No

I refuse to

[young pecan]

What I will tell you is the servers involve kubernetes out of basic technological requirement.

[astral haven]

k8s or k3s or what?

[young pecan]

K8s.

[astral haven]

oh boy

[young pecan]

Running on Talos Linux because that shit is unholy levels of cracked.

[young pecan]

Yeah I know.

[hardy idol]

What I will tell you is that you have servers and I need storage space to backup (jk I'll find a way to do it locally)

[young pecan]

I did consider a more jank awful solution using K3s and Rancher or some weird custom setup with Kustomize that gets cancer and dies.

But like...

[hardy idol]

Says the windows warrior

[young pecan]

Talos with Kustomize and OpenTF.

Very simple workflow. I love it.

[hardy idol]

Btw Aeon uh

For my pc uh

If I would use WSL2 as you rexommended

Like what does it look like

What environment do I get

[young pecan]

Same as normal linux, you use terminal.

[young pecan]

However many you want.

[astral haven]

wtf?
what use would wsl2 be for solidworks or what are we talking about now?

[young pecan]

^

[hardy idol]

Uh

But like

[young pecan]

Well you can run Linux apps on the Windows desktop using WSLg, but if you want to do random linux shit? Terminal like everyone else already does.

[hardy idol]

I'll just have arch but be able to run solidworks without booting to windows?

[young pecan]

No.

[hardy idol]

Das gay

[young pecan]

WSL2 runs inside Windows, it's like emulating but better.

[astral haven]

wsl2 allows you to run linux terminal apps

[young pecan]

Not just terminal.

[astral haven]

anything more is jank

[young pecan]

You can do GUI stuff since 2 years ago.

And it's actually good now.

[hardy idol]

But most of those apps have a windows equivalent

[astral haven]

terminal apps?
definetly not

[young pecan]

Yeah basically.

[hardy idol]

I want linux that runs windows

[young pecan]

Like yeah I want Linux that can't do Windows shit, or I can have both. Kek

[young pecan]

That's called Wine and it's awful.

[astral haven]

yea thats not fun

[hardy idol]

Time to run parallel

[young pecan]

That's called WSL2.

[hardy idol]

But I don't want windows as the main

[astral haven]

if you want the best of both worlds, you need 2 gpus, plx, and you run XEN

[young pecan]

That is awful jank, holy fuck.

[astral haven]

you completely run both linux and windows on top of xen

[young pecan]

Like it'll work but the maintenance sucks ass.

[astral haven]

actually nah

[young pecan]

Passthrough.

[astral haven]

friend been dailying it for 2 years now completely fine

[young pecan]

It's less bad on Xen than it is on Proxmox, but fuck me it's really not fun.

[hardy idol]

Basically run a higher OS that presents you 2 sxreens?

[astral haven]

its 1 time setup

and proxmox isnt bad either as long as you have a gpu per system

and not an intel igpu

[hardy idol]

Fuck it we're buying 2 4090s

[astral haven]

p sure radeon igpus are fine

[young pecan]

Xen is a hypervisor, Vio. It's an OS designed for emulation and emulation alone. The gist is you emulate Windows and however many Linux distros with the difference being you need one physical display driver per system.

[hardy idol]

What I meant to say

[young pecan]

Or you just do WSL2.

[hardy idol]

I don't know the terms

[young pecan]

And none of that problem.

[hardy idol]

I'll yank a quadro out of my old system for windows

P4000

[astral haven]

wsl2 works fantastically

[hardy idol]

(jk they're not bad but ass)

[young pecan]

Worst use of a P4000 I've ever seen.

[hardy idol]

And windows sucks to use

[astral haven]

p4000 is actually not bad at all lel

[hardy idol]

Tell me I have 2 I think

[astral haven]

least shit option we have

[hardy idol]

I use arch rn

[young pecan]

Arch is 100% a more shit option than Windows, just like all of Linux for end use.

Insecure hellscape that it is.

[hardy idol]

No

[astral haven]

so like you may personally like an option over other options

my favorite desktop OS is actually samsung dex

but objectively its awful

[young pecan]

The one exception to that rule is Talos because they literally don't even have SSH or anything. The only connection that it has is API.

[astral haven]

almost as bad as macos

[hardy idol]

I have an S23U but I haven't used the dex functionality yet

[young pecan]

^

[hardy idol]

I guess you like how the apps are displayed or

[young pecan]

You can like something awful, but that doesn't make it good, it makes you good at tolerating awful.

That's what Windows is.

[hardy idol]

You're tolerating windows

[young pecan]

Yes I know.

It's awful.

[hardy idol]

Yes and I use Arch which is good

[young pecan]

You think I want the new settings page? Fuck no, give me control panel.

[young pecan]

Arch has it's problems like being an insecure hellscape that's asking for a virus.

[hardy idol]

What virus

[young pecan]

Windows is just outright more secure where it counts.

[hardy idol]

No virus is going to hurt us

Maybe coronavirus

[astral haven]

@hardy idol consider all of the possible tasks that need to be done, windows works for on the order of a couple hundred million different workflows
linux in general can do a couple million
arch is slightly more limited but still fine
dex can do a million ish but is lower
and finally macos only allows a couple hundred thousand

[young pecan]

Remember always, more eyes on Linux is not more better, Microsoft actually pays for trained eyes that actually find shit.

[hardy idol]

In the end we all agree macos is shit

[young pecan]

Doesn't matter if there's a billion eyes on Linux if almost all of them aren't pentesters or cybersecurity.

[hardy idol]

[astral haven]

heres the thing tho
I actually dont think its shit
i consider it like a rock
if it works for what you need it, it can be great, but on the grand scheme of things its only capable of a quite limited subset of all possible workflows

[young pecan]

Yeah like honestly when OSx works it works pretty much perfectly.

[astral haven]

and when it doesnt, its actually rather clear about it

linux you never really know

[young pecan]

That whole thing where Linux customization is shit because it gives me 400 ways to badly do my tasks? OSx gives you generously 2 but they've been thought out.

[hardy idol]

Can't we just adapt solidworks to run on linux

[astral haven]

and windows gives you 1 good option, 10 mediocre options, and 100 specialized options that work poorly unless you have one fringe use

[young pecan]

Lmao no.

[young pecan]

POWERTOYS, HELLO.

[hardy idol]

I know

[hardy idol]

Love powertoys window manager

[astral haven]

have you considered trying the other options 😛

[hardy idol]

That's the best application ever

[young pecan]

Objectively correct opinion.

Actually.

Good software is good.

[hardy idol]

No shut the fuck up its THE BEST

[astral haven]

i actually like the stock windows 11 window manager

[hardy idol]

Powertoys should be a standard app

[young pecan]

^^^^^^^^^

[hardy idol]

Like fucking being able to make 10003 window holes predefined

[astral haven]

in fact i dont even have powertoys installed on this computer only my work pc

[hardy idol]

I loved it when I had my superwide

[young pecan]

Heretic.

And you call yourself a techie.

[astral haven]

enthusiast not techie

[young pecan]

That's not better.

[hardy idol]

I had one of these

[young pecan]

Mmmmmmm.

[hardy idol]

Powertoys is REQUIRED

For those

[astral haven]

its not

lel

[young pecan]

I would sooner die than give up my iPhone.

[rough osprey]

das a wide boi

[hardy idol]

Actually is I couldn't live without it

The window manager allowed me to use the screen

[young pecan]

Fuck Android and the janky horse it rode in on, I get enough exposure to god awful UX design when dealing with Ubuntu.

[astral haven]

i would sooner give up my iphone than step on bubblegum

[young pecan]

Fuckin' Ubuntu man... sigh

[hardy idol]

You're extremely funny

[astral haven]

but i have it imposed on me from work so i have to tolerate it

[hardy idol]

I've had no issues at all using my S23U and I've enjoyed it far better than I do when I fix people's iPhone issues

[young pecan]

iPhone good. It does what it does near flawlessly, haven't had a problem or quirk with it in literally a year.

[astral haven]

ive been on work iphone for 2 years and i constantly run into issues

[young pecan]

The real issue is a skill issue.

Brb
Meeting

[astral haven]

how the hell is it considered acceptable that theres no way to customize the power button???

[young pecan]

Holy fuck.

Wait.

freeBSD > linux > unix > a monkey and typewriter > windows

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS.

[hardy idol]

Hahahha

[young pecan]

NO.

NO SIR.

BAD TAKE.

[hardy idol]

What is bro crafting

[astral haven]

gimme a shortcut for my camera
gimme a shortcut for flashlight
please

[hardy idol]

WHAT IS BRO CRAFTING

[young pecan]

Agreed.

[rough osprey]

iphone users have time

[hardy idol]

EXPLAIN V

[rough osprey]

😀

[hardy idol]

What the fuck do you create

[astral haven]

like in what universe is it ok that ios hasnt had a way to make buttons shortcut to that without hacking
why

heres a fkn crazy take
windows actually works fantastically for all of those, sometimes better than dedicated distros of linux or freebsd

main reason being that it actually is designed for everything to be interoperable with itself

freebsd and linux will definetly do each individual task better (unless you get into the serious graphical stuff like windows IOT or whatever)

but windows has the ability to do multiple things at the same time without clobbering each other

[hardy idol]

But windows isn't nice to actually use

Expecially windows 11 is just plain cursed

[astral haven]

especially now with wsl2 allowing for everything linux to be used as a subset without running into the issues

[astral haven]

thats an opinion that isnt supported by facts

[rough osprey]

for what?

[astral haven]

like sure its a valid opinion but theres nothing factual about it

[hardy idol]

It looks ugly

And uh

FOR SOME REASON

[rough osprey]

best looking windows yet

[astral haven]

thats your own fault, everything is customizeable

[hardy idol]

My last windows machine idled using over 5GB RAM

How the fuck and why

[crisp granite]

One reason I use MacOS

[astral haven]

and you actually have no idea how much your linux machine was using since it uses storage as ram (which actually causes problems if you arent paying attention)

[crisp granite]

can genuinely use 16gb and it works just fine

[hardy idol]

You're funny because when I boot my laptop on Linux it runs quieter too

Like very very noticeably

[rough osprey]

how is gaming on linux

[hardy idol]

On linux it mostly runs passive when idling

[astral haven]

🤷 linux does less

[hardy idol]

Never got it to do that on windows

[astral haven]

if you have your windows do more, it will do more

[hardy idol]

Works very well l

[hardy idol]

Talking stock vs stock

[astral haven]

set it to balanced mode instead of max performance lel

[hardy idol]

And used vs used

[hardy idol]

No it's the opposite way

[rough osprey]

can i just install a game and play it

and also install creative cloud

[hardy idol]

Linux is always on max performance

[astral haven]

stock windows is capable of an insane amount more than linux lel

[hardy idol]

Possibly but I haven't run into issues using arch apart from solidworks

So it's all clutter I don't need

That's the simple conclusion that's to be drawn

[astral haven]

are you sure about that?
or did you just forget the workarounds you employed?

[hardy idol]

I haven't

[astral haven]

🤷 prove it

i had a number of issues trying to connect a monitor to my steam deck in desktop mode, and thats arch

[hardy idol]

I have a laptop

And I don't run extra screens

When I had the PC I had that Superwide

The PC was an old hexacore xeon btw

[astral haven]

ah so theres a workaround
you stopped using external screens
might not have been causal or intentional but it still happened

[hardy idol]

No

I used it on pc too

Ive also used it when I still had the horizontal + vertical sxreen

[astral haven]

i use 5 monitors at work, 1 of them a touchscreen, and planning on adding a second touchscreen soon

also planning on adding a wireless touchscreen 6th monitor

just gotta be hands on for drawing sometimes

[young pecan]

2 monitors for me. Planning on 2 more and an ultrawide.

More desktop room more good.

[hardy idol]

I don't have space for more

I need a superwide again

[astral haven]

thats definetly not true

you can mount additional monitors to existing ones

even if they are small

oh wait you wouldnt want to do that bc linux incompatibility with mixed dpi monitors...

not that windows is a whole ton better but...

[hardy idol]

Uh idk I have a small desk

And I don't need more than a superwide
The superwide gives me 1 16:9 screen in the middle and 4 quarters/2halves off to the sides to use for research or YouTube Spotify discord

I mean tidal nowadays

[astral haven]

if you have a single 24 inch monitor, you could replace it with 2 13 inch monitors side by side vertically
and that you could replace with 4 7 inch monitors in a square

[hardy idol]

Thanks to @young pecan 💜

[astral haven]

5 monitors 6 computers here
but all of the other computers are remoted into

[hardy idol]

Uhm I don't like emulating how it is to be a fly

[astral haven]

but id also bet you could stack another 16:9 on top easily

[hardy idol]

I could but I'd rather stack another superwide or an ultrawide

[astral haven]

and you probably also could replace the existing monitor mount with one that supports 2 monitors, and add a vertical monitor to one side without significantly impacting your space

[hardy idol]

The 16:9 as a monitor isn't for me anymore

Sadly theres no 21:9 laptops

[astral haven]

any time you want a wider monitor, you could instead get a wider and taller monitor and get even more space for almost certainly the same price

[rough osprey]

downgrade

[astral haven]

only exception is if you are an antidowngradeist who made the mistake of getting a 240hz monitor
i cant buy a bigger monitor otherwise i am downgrading my refresh rate 😦

[hardy idol]

You can fight @young pecan on this

[rough osprey]

damn so limited?

bandwidth

[astral haven]

no just noone has made a 4k240hz panel over 32 inches

[rough osprey]

soon

[astral haven]

if i want a 42 inch its 120/144
48 inch maxes at 165?

[rough osprey]

didn't they already announce on

[astral haven]

nope

[rough osprey]

like gamescom

[astral haven]

that was a 32 inch monitor

only matching what ive got now

[rough osprey]

oh over

oops

[astral haven]

138hz for now 😦

[hardy idol]

Like I've been enjoying the journey with tidal tbh

[rough osprey]

great for you

[rough osprey]

:(

[astral haven]

oh wait the odyssey arc is 165hz!

so if i go up to 55 inch i can get 165hz

but yea still a downgrade from my current 240 😦

[rough osprey]

get 27inch oleds

4

[vapid perch]

Qobuz better

[astral haven]

i would run out of ports on my work pc, and holy crap the price of a matrix switcher for that would be absolutely beyond my means assuming i could afford 4 27 inchers lel

[vapid perch]

Idk what yall talking about imma dip

[rough osprey]

bye bye

[vapid perch]

Awooting bye

[rough osprey]

hmm

[hardy idol]

Isnt that the more quality but terrible UI

[rough osprey]

get closer to your monitors then :D

[astral haven]

also oled for reading text (which is half of my job) is cringe

[rough osprey]

ye

hope windows makes an update

[astral haven]

my eyes getting worse 😦

[astral haven]

its not on windows

[rough osprey]

oh

[astral haven]

the monitors need to be able to communicate the pixel pattern somehow

[rough osprey]

no linux user making a custom preset yet?

[vapid perch]

Yep

[astral haven]

macos gets around this by just making everything blurry but that is such awful bs

[astral haven]

uh people make stuff that they say works but 🤷 never looked sharp to me

[rough osprey]

less music and grouping small artists into one person where my problems

looks fun tho when one profile has classical music and rap

[rough osprey]

ah sad

[astral haven]

dont get me wrong its definetly less awful but i use text every day

at least 4 hours a day are spent reading

[rough osprey]

wondering if the professional oleds have that problem

[astral haven]

yep

its still the same panels

actually hmm
I could set up an array of 13 inchers

use them all at 200% scale

[rough osprey]

who else is using the 24inch 4k oled Panel

[astral haven]

still a refresh downgrade and my poor work computer rendering windows at 8k

[astral haven]

p sure the 24 inch 4k is used for laptop 1440p panels?

16 inches?

[rough osprey]

ah nvm

its 24inch 1080p oled

lol

[astral haven]

well the existence of 1440p 16 inch panels implies the existence of 4k 24 inch panels

[rough osprey]

ye probably

[astral haven]

oh wait nvm its 4k 16 inch nvm

https://www.asus.com/us/laptops/for-home/vivobook/vivobook-pro-16x-oled-n7600-11th-gen-intel/techspec/

[rough osprey]

but not the one i was looking at

[hardy idol]

Artists into one person i noticed

That's a shitty thing

[rough osprey]

only 60hz tho

[hardy idol]

BESTie (kpop) isn't the same as BESTIE (idk what that shit music is)

[astral haven]

https://innocn.com/products/innocn-15-6-portable-monitor-pu15-pre
yea alot of 60hz oleds

this is one of the cheaper ones that id be interested in for work

[rough osprey]

have u found anything else with 24 1080p?

[astral haven]

wouldnt do at home tho

[astral haven]

nah theres that japanese esports one tho

[rough osprey]

which one

[astral haven]

https://blurbusters.com/joled-update-120hz-oled-monitors-coming-to-market-soon/
oop nvm looks like its 22 inches

[rough osprey]

ah

okay

oleds seems to be already kinda out in the pro scene

can also reach 1000000:1 contrast on lcd

[astral haven]

yea
DLLCD for the win

and you could pair dllcd with miniled these days

[gusty kiln]

shame JOLED is kill

[astral haven]

theres really no need since a million to 1 (true contrast) is pretty hard for someone to be able to see, and its already beyond what consumer oleds are capable of producing (thanks to optical issues)

no real point in spending twice as much for a device that cant provide any benefit in the near term

tho with VR displays, we could probably get alot higher contrast ratios

and with very low power we could probably actually reach into the 20k nit range (that is actually needed to recreate the brightness of objects lit by sunlight (even matte objects)

paper can reach up to 50k nits at noon

[rough osprey]

pls dont

im getting blinded by my oled tv already

[astral haven]

Only because you are using it indoors

[rough osprey]

ye its kinda heavy

[astral haven]

Nah even just like opening windows while watching videos

[rough osprey]

so people outside hear what im watching?

[astral haven]

???

I don't mean physically opening them
Even just not throwing the blinds

[rough osprey]

ah

hm why would i tho

[astral haven]

🤷 why not?

[rough osprey]

having everything else dark kinda nice

[astral haven]

It's only nice because it has an advantage thanks to your poor screen

[rough osprey]

maybe for some casual yt

but wouldn't wanna watch a movie like that

only seeing the tv makes it more immersive

[empty pasture]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qieSLe6rLR0 i wonder if we will see Wooting use these in any new products

[astral haven]

Those are a and x series CPU cores

Wooting is using m series real time cores

[hardy idol]

When LEG CPUs

[young pecan]

Needs BODY interconnect first.

[latent mural]

What about the BRAIN chip?

[young pecan]

Shit you aren’t wrong. If we’re doing BRAIN chip we should probably also be doing EYE chip.

[latent mural]

You’re absolutely right.

[empty pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/wiggle-dance-wyoming-snake-gif-8014362

[halcyon willow]

Here we go.

[haughty vector]

can someone who has a decent amount of knowledge give me some advice with upgrading my pc?

[halcyon willow]

talk to me

[haughty vector]

so currently i have a i7 8700k, msi z370a-pro, and gtx 1080 ti and i just realized that my cpu is bottlenecking tf outa my cpu

i want to upgrade my cpu and motherboard in order to be up to speed with my gpu but dont really know what to go with

[cursive summit]

Ehh, 8700K was fine with the 1080Ti back when it released, your system is aging but CPU is definitely the weakest point

[haughty vector]

yeah when i first got it the 8700k was a good mathc with the 1080ti but now its horrid

[crisp granite]

get a 5700X
and a nice mobo to go with it

[cursive summit]

Do not

[crisp granite]

that will allow relief of bottleneck now

and expansion once the GPU is tired out

[haughty vector]

i was thinking of getting a i7 13700k

[cursive summit]

How much are you willing to spend?

[haughty vector]

500 macx

500 usd

for both cpu and motherboard

[cursive summit]

Are you willing to wait like 6 months more?

[haughty vector]

yea theres no rush

[cursive summit]

There's some good shit around the corner next year

I'd wait for Zen 5 tbf

Will release in 2024

[haughty vector]

hmmm but i was also trying to get a motherboard that would be compatible with my ddr4 ram that i have right now

[cursive summit]

Buying Intel is also pretty bleh move, Arrow Lake is dead on arrival and the motherboards will have no upgrade paths

[haughty vector]

yeah thats the problem im having right now

[cursive summit]

You live in U.S next to a microcenter by any chance?

[halcyon willow]

13600k or 7800X3D

[haughty vector]

i do live in the us but my nearest micro center is like 7 hours away

[halcyon willow]

I'd upgrade everything at that point

if you want to future proof get a 7800X3D

[crisp granite]

worth the trip

my nearest Microcentre is across an international border and I've still made the trip

[haughty vector]

bru

[cursive summit]

7 hours is a lot, wouldn't bother

[crisp granite]

tbh by how I wrote "centre"

probably obvious

[halcyon willow]

lol bro what

[cursive summit]

That is absolute horseshit

[halcyon willow]

get a 3060 TI

[crisp granite]

for the USA, that's nothing

that's a trip within a state
maybe a state border or two

[cursive summit]

Don't live in that god forsaken place then

[haughty vector]

3060 ti doesnt seem much better than my 1080 ti

[cursive summit]

It's not

It'll a bit better in most scenarios, but not really a worthwhile purchase

You'd be much better off just getting a new CPU

[haughty vector]

yeah dont really wanna spend an extra 300 for a 5% increase

[haughty vector]

thats what im thinking

and just buy a gpu whenever i feel like i need a new one

do you guys know what to look for when looking for motherboards

like whats good and what isnt

[cursive summit]

Best choice would be something like an R5 7600 and an A620 or a B650 board

Should be about 500$, and you get upgrade paths for the future

It'll be a top-performing CPU currently in the market anyways

[haughty vector]

uhh the bottleneck calculator still says the 7600 would be too weak

should i even trust the bottleneck calculator

[cursive summit]

You should not lol

If a brand new latest generation, top performing CPU is too weak, then nothing in the market is good enough

[old marlin]

prob not

[haughty vector]

i mean the 13700k is good enough for the calculator

[cursive summit]

That just screams like Intel bias

What website are you using?

Anyways there's this https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-7600X-GIGABYTE-Motherboard/dp/B0BV3C5GTL/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?crid=2G10ZA04VNS16

[haughty vector]

oo thats nice

but the problem is my ram

i have ddr4 ram

[cursive summit]

And you can add something like this to the bundle https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-2x16GB-5600MT-Desktop-CP2K16G56C46U5/dp/B0C2B7W1W4

Man wtf are these links

[haughty vector]

time to sell my ram ig

[cursive summit]

If you plan to sell the RAM there're a lot faster kits available

Although no, most top up at 6000 that are cheap, this thing should easily OC to that

Yeah 7600 will cover your bases for a long time, B650 will give you a few generations worth of upgrades to later consider

[old marlin]

just cut out the ref

[cursive summit]

And DDR5 isn't going anywhere

[cursive summit]

It was a lot worse before, already truncated it

[old marlin]

still not as bad as ebay links

[cursive summit]

Is DDR6 a thing yet?

[old marlin]

no

DDR5 is still new

[haughty vector]

i was using this one https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator/

[cursive summit]

We just got 5, but 4 just overstayed its welcome

[old marlin]

afaik DDR6 specs are not even a thing yet

should go in testing next year apparently

and then to retail in 2026

so we might see it on consumer plattforms in 2027 or 2028

[cursive summit]

I would suggest you don't use these calculators, and instead watch/read reviews

[old marlin]

a bottleneck is dependant on game etc

typically most gpu demanding games will just bottleneck on that anyways

[cursive summit]

Also resolution you are playing at

[old marlin]

and the ones that are cpu dependant typically get a lot of fps nowadays with a modern cpu anyways

[cursive summit]

Yeah it's really not much of an issue

R5 7600 is a really good CPU, it'll carry your 1080Ti

[old marlin]

in the end it is very depedant on the exact title

[cursive summit]

Not really much dependant when you have a 1080Ti tbf

It's an older part, it'll never get bottlenecked

[old marlin]

[cursive summit]

If you have a 4080, then yeah, no CPU is good enough for that yet

[old marlin]

also depends on title

you can easily cap out a 4090 in some games

[haughty vector]

whats the difference between the b650m aorus elite ax and b650m ds3h

[old marlin]

even with curent day mid tier gpus

[vagrant pagoda]

also res

at 4k most cpus can feed a 4090

[cursive summit]

One's a "higher quality" motherboard with wireless module installed, other is without those features, might have less USB ports

DS3H should be good enough but depending on the price difference, Aorus might be worth considering

Wireless is worth considering, brings not only wifi but also bluetooth connectivity

[haughty vector]

i dont really use bluetooth

i am planning on getting a wireless mouse but those use a dongle right?

[old marlin]

yea

[cursive summit]

Usually they have both dong and bluetooth

[old marlin]

only thing I use bt on my board is for my controller

[cursive summit]

But nobody uses bluetooth for a mouse

[haughty vector]

yea dont really use bluetooth then

[cursive summit]

Unless you need battery life or something

[old marlin]

not necessarily, but you shouldn't use it for gaming anyways

[haughty vector]

i also have ethernet cable so i dont need wifi

[cursive summit]

Only for battery life I would ever enable BT on a mouse

[haughty vector]

so i would get the ryzen 7600x and a motherboard because of their upgradability right?

[cursive summit]

Sounds solid

@old marlin thoughts?

Nearly thought I pinged the wrong person, wtf is a ninorp

[old marlin]

would not be suuuuper reliant on upgradeability

[old marlin]

pronin backwards

[cursive summit]

Ah

[old marlin]

first gen plattform and all

[raw zephyr]

we miss Yamatoklok

[vagrant pagoda]

amd has an amazing track record with that though

[old marlin]

since you prob don't want to upgrade to second gen cpus

[haughty vector]

hmmm so why wouldn't i just get a 13700k and a motherboard compatible with it? just curious

[old marlin]

and third gen might have upgradeability problems

[old marlin]

gets you a guaranteed 0% upgradeability

[raw zephyr]

price/performance

[cursive summit]

13700K is so damn expensive for a 500$ budget

[old marlin]

next gen intel will be the last on that socket

that is 3-9% faster

[cursive summit]

Like, 13600K is over 300$ usually

13700K is well over that, and you need a motherboard for 500$

Intel isn't a budget suited hardware maker

[raw zephyr]

how is the 7800x3d? just curious if i ever upgrade my 9900k

[cursive summit]

X3D still kicks ass

[old marlin]

"still"

atm prob the best gaming cpu overall

[cursive summit]

Yeah, even if they handicapped it this generation

[vagrant pagoda]

even 5x00x3d is almost top tier

intel only has a few skus over it in gaming

[cursive summit]

I like how you wrote x instead of 8 as if anyone has a chance of even getting a 5600X3D

[halcyon moss]

And they are steaming hot

[vagrant pagoda]

most MC have them in stock

[old marlin]

so you cover like what

30% of the us population

[cursive summit]

MC is in very few locations, and don't ship most of the things they have

[haughty vector]

whats the difference between an overclocked 8700k to 4.7ghz and a 7600x

[cursive summit]

Also, Americans only damnit

[old marlin]

IPC

[raw zephyr]

7800x3d goes for 420€ here in czech

[cursive summit]

Speak in layman terms