The second one works perfectly
#🔌│tech
astral haven
n4c?
ashen spindle
the canned rdna4 halo sku
astral haven
yea besides the 9800gx2 actually looking remotely acceptable to look at on the exterior as well as the interior
astral haven
the canned rdna4 halo sku
ah right
i mean if they canned it, we havent gotten that far yet lol
ashen spindle
well kinda
vagrant pagoda
yea besides the 9800gx2 actually looking remotely acceptable to look at on the e...
Mine are just missing the stickers
ashen spindle
Mi300 exists
vagrant pagoda
With the stickers on you never be able to tell a 295 from a 9800gx2
astral haven
Mine are just missing the stickers
9800gx2 didnt use stickers
vagrant pagoda
Yes they did
astral haven
and yes you could lmao
vagrant pagoda
Mine literally has a sticker on it
ashen spindle
but I guess yeah we are not there this or next year for consumers, fair
vagrant pagoda
Mine is a EVGA and it has the giant e on it
astral haven
Mine literally has a sticker on it
ok sure there were stickers
But i mean the main aesthetic of the card is solid piano black metal
vagrant pagoda
Which is just a glassy sticker
You mean exactly like the 295 other than it being matte
astral haven
rather than perforated matte metal with a sticker on top
vagrant pagoda
The 9800 was plastic and the 295 was metal
astral haven
do you have one?
vagrant pagoda
My evga is 100% glossy plastic with a sticker
astral haven
my nvidia is 100% metal front and back
solemn remnant
\,,/
deft marlin
Zoomer here, so when were these produced 
solemn remnant
asdasd fuck
astral haven
Zoomer here, so when were these produced <:havo:975821613415157860>
an incredible amount of time ago
aka 2008
deft marlin
ok
vagrant pagoda
It's metal under the plastic with sticker
deft marlin
I remember trying to bring a 2008 Mac Pro to life
vagrant pagoda
It's die cast zink
deft marlin
Stupid family got it an old workstation card from AMD and pawned off the old one
vagrant pagoda
I would love to see one that's painted
deft marlin
Incompatible
vagrant pagoda
Everyone I see only is sticker
astral haven
It's metal under the plastic with sticker
metal under sticker
but evga definetly went overboard with the sticker
deft marlin
somehow it’s working now
astral haven
the nvidia reference uses a metal (or metallized) sticker, tastefully avoiding the entirety of the piano black metal
deft marlin
Point was it wasn’t on the comp list
vagrant pagoda
The 295 is all aluminum
deft marlin
just anything old my family thought it’d work 
vagrant pagoda
That is powder coated
astral haven
🤷 yet this looks an order of magnitude better with or without sticker
deft marlin
I told them no, but their ears are pointed toward heaven
astral haven
uuuuuuh
vagrant pagoda
The piano black doesn't it make it cool any better
astral haven
the practicalities are debatable
the aesthetics are not defensible on the 295
like excuse me in what world do those perforations look good?
deft marlin
like excuse me in what world do those perforations look good?
Reminds me of black panther suit
astral haven
except thats literally false as thats the back of the pcb
astral haven
yes but it looks like trash lol
sure industrial waste but still trash nonetheless
the evga classified was at least glossy but the perforations? ew
vagrant pagoda
I think the piano black is so bland and boring
It's subjective
Perforated aluminum almost always been fancy computer back in the 2000s
Yep
I have the workstation version of the 2000
The 2100
Same internals
But front door and padded side panels
steep creek
Add some racing stripes and you will be ahead of the competition lol
astral haven
i cant tell if that specific motherboard tray slides out, but I have the motherboard tray from one of those lian lis for my testbench
vagrant pagoda
They are worth crazy money these days
The 2000 does not come out
They are actually horrible to work with because of the center divider lol
Makes eps and CPU cooler fans a chore
astral haven
well the slide out of this one was unworkable as well since any tower cooler would prevent it from sliding out lmao
vagrant pagoda
I have my x58 in it and my d14 almost touches
The EPS and fan wires actually tilt the cooler a bit
I really need to install a cutout at the back of the case through the center so that the power wires can go through
And before anyone says things those quatros only need the six pin or the eight pin
They do not need both
solemn remnant
https://tenor.com/fi/view/thermal-paste-cpu-motherboard-thermal-paste-cpu-cpu-thermal-paste-gif-24047580 hope you did this too
reef patrol
cursive summit
Tested wrong, shit on the product when they had completely wrong results, doubled down that it wasn't their fault, then threw the company under the bus by not sending the main prototype back and shat on the corpse... by selling it off in a convention full of cooling solution makers
Yeah I haven't been watching LTT for a long time and this reaffirms why 
vagrant pagoda
https://tenor.com/fi/view/thermal-paste-cpu-motherboard-thermal-paste-cpu-cpu-th...
It's lga
Lol
cursive summit
Doesn't even matter what they do or review, the integrity values are untrustworthy
vagrant pagoda
Lmao
steep creek
I unsubscribed lol. Their videos used to be fun but I feel they’re all the same now
cursive summit
I think the last thing I saw was them trying to go into audio reviews
And the review didn't seem like the presenter had much clue about audio at all
steep creek
I’ve been watching them on and off but this time it’s been long since I last tuned in
cursive summit
Well, it's a corporation at this point
steep creek
Essentially yeah
cursive summit
Linus, if you can spend millions of dollars on your house, you can also spend extra cash on high quality content
vagrant pagoda
He's like deer in headlights
gusty kiln
you can see luke's discomfort week by week
cursive summit
Luke should reconsider his affiliations
vagrant pagoda
Luckily he's not evolved with video stuff
vagrant pagoda
Luke should reconsider his affiliations
I mean floatplane is a good product
cursive summit
Luke does only Floatplane as far as I know
cursive summit
Is Floatplane owned by LTT in part or something?
Cause the tight knit between LTT and Floatplane is sus, either it's friendship based or ownership
steep creek
Yea I believe they are fully owned by ltt
vagrant pagoda
Lmg owns ltt, fp and the other parts
steep creek
Ah yah
cursive summit
Well, Luke is essentially forced to listen to Linus and Ivonne or he's out of a job
He does seem like a good guy and tries to leash Linus but man is he ever so powerless
cursive summit
Depends on the structure
LMG is owned 50% Linus and 50% Ivonne
With Linus acting as owner but CEO is the new guy they added
thick elk
Well Luke just has a different role, it does seem like he pushes back a bit but he is not that involved with the video sid of things.
cursive summit
Cause Linus can't be bothered with running a company
ashen spindle
that really isnt the reason lol
vagrant pagoda
Luke is coo if fpm
cursive summit
It is weird cause Linus does mention that he really wants to go all corporate and run a big company
Yet he can't handle the business management aspect at all
vagrant pagoda
Lmg and fpm have same ceo
thick elk
Linus has more value as a host than as a manager + he really does not like the job so there is that.
cursive summit
Which does tbf make sense when you want to own a successful company, but can't run it well and so you offload all the management parts to your ex-boss
thick elk
It's the same thing with artists hiring managers, their job as an artist is more valuable than their job leading their company.
just wondering how the ltt reddit responds.
Seems pretty telling.
cursive summit
"just drama from GN"
Sure is drama when other reviewers have pointed out your hipocricy multiple times in the past year
hasty thunder
just wondering how the ltt reddit responds.
Seems pretty telling.
They don't give a fuck about their reddit. What's more important for them is their DC filled with copium drugged toe suckers
I was constantly arguing with a Mod there, because they made mistakes all the time, claimed some bullshit that was never even possible or was completely incorrect information
thick elk
Their forums also seem to be very much on the same line as the reddit. Still I am just used to stronger fanboyism.
I did not check their discord though.
hasty thunder
It's not worth, honestly. You'd cringe the fuck out there
real situation before i got banned: Someone asked if it's fine to use a Molex to 6/8 Pin Adapter and then overclock the GPU. Despite the recommendation of several knowledgable people the person did so anyways, because the knowledgable mass told him to do so while we weren't "on our watch" (with our i mean a small group of us overclockers doing it for years if not decades at that time). Well, the person ended up with a burned out PC, literally
Because Molex' standard usually doesn't include any safety mechanisms
nor did it ever require any
thick elk
I don't know the full context so I can't judge but I just joined their discord on an alt and it seems even in their discord they are aligning with GN on this one. Of course Linus has not yet responded but still.
gusty kiln
wonder if Billet Labs can/will sue LMG
like they must have signed an NDA
and LTT handle it like the worst possible way
thick elk
I fear that as a small company they didn't do the legal stuff, sending something to a trusted large publication like ltt.
gusty kiln
oof
hasty thunder
wonder if Billet Labs can/will sue LMG
Sadly Billet doesn't have the money for that. I'm currently in contact with Billet because of the whole incident and am going to back them up financially to ensure that LMG gets punished for their mistakes
gusty kiln
wtf
hasty thunder
It was their most promising prototype and as Steve said "someone could've bought it and send it away to be copied"
thick elk
Still legaly even without an NDA, sending it on loan legally speaking seems clear enough, if LTT auctioned it they are still 100% in the wrong.
hasty thunder
causing a huge financial damage to Billet
gusty kiln
the wtf was directed at financing their legal action
hasty thunder
idc, i have the money for that
in fact i've already ordered a transfer of a 5 digits sum to them as an investment
ain't much, but keeps them afloat for now
gusty kiln
thick elk
Damn, still in general I would put the chances reasonably high that LTT at least tries to do some right by them after the fallout of this.
hasty thunder
Their cooler seemed more than promising and i'm willing to back it up, because it's made by 2 guys trying to get a foothold in the market
more competition = more inventions and innovations = better products = happy customers
analog sinew
ain't much, but keeps them afloat for now
hasty thunder
i mean Wooting itself was found by 3 guys innovating how we should look at mechanical keyboards nowadays
vagrant pagoda
"I am not saying that whoever came up with the idea of a printer/scanner-combo not scanning unless you put in ink should be sentenced to death, just that if they were sentenced to death and they put out a call for volunteers for the shooting squad, they would have to do some sort of lottery."
hasty thunder
but yeah, i'd definitely volunteer as a shooter
vagrant pagoda
it was from reddit
hasty thunder
and honestly, i hate printers. Like i really hate them... All i wanna do is printing a single paper and the printer does a clean up at 5 a.m. twice per week anyways fyi, no, that fucking piece of shit thing decides to clean itself once again when i decide to print something, wasting 10 minutes of my time just to print one of the god damn worst prints i've seen in my entire life
hasty thunder
it's the worst tech companies can come up with
seriously, is it that hard to create a printer that JUST WORKS?
Go, clean yourself at 5 a.m., pump some new ink in, fine by me, but print on the spot if i decide to print something instead of wasting my time
and no, don't fucking beep at me, because i'm using some cheaper 3rd party cartridges, just because i'm not willing to buy a single cartridge of black for fucking 40€
thick elk
The problem is the incentives are all wrong. People are unable to judge reliabilty, thus it does not become a purchasing factor for most.
People prefer to buy a cheaper printer rather than a more expensive one with cheaper ink.
It is just how it goes.
At this point, the only thing that could help is forced EU standardization.
hasty thunder
The problem is the incentives are all wrong. People are unable to judge reliabil...
Honestly, i don't have an issue paying for something more quality made. Absolutely not. But if a small 50 ml cartridge of black costs 40€'s, then i'm definitely drawing the line
vagrant pagoda
laser is still best
thick elk
The problem here is that it's not quality at all, there is little transparency about it.
hasty thunder
50 ml's for 40€... Like what is this stuff made of? Gold with some damn diamonds in it?
vagrant pagoda
laser, dye sub, thermal, then injet
thick elk
Cheaper laser printers are also not that reliable, at work they last a couple of years really.
vagrant pagoda
50 ml's for 40€... Like what is this stuff made of? Gold with some damn diamonds...
hand made japanese ink cost less
and they gotta burn oil to make it
hasty thunder
laser printers introduce other issues tho
like the dust they produce over time affecting your health
and not just in a small way
thick elk
In terms of real cost you mostly pay for logistics of handling the million different types of cardridges, keeping them all in stock and so forth.
Then there is the huge margin on first party ones
hasty thunder
but a seriously harming one when used frequently
thick elk
I do think ink jets could be mostly solved if we all agree or are forced to agree on a standard cartridge format. Or a few formats, at the very least a ban on scaremongering about third party cardridges, locking out third parties, making refills unviable and crap like that.
astral haven
well the problem is that model has been tried and people dont buy it
the razors and blades model works
i used to sell printers
$300 printer with $1/1000 page ink
$80 printer with $70/1000 page ink
1 guess as to which was bought 9 times out of 10
tbf it was closer to $3/1000 pages for the first one but the point stands
and that was with them having to walk by the isle full of ink to actually buy the printer because obviously
fading cloud
final flame
@gusty kiln @cursive summit
KZ commiting professional suicide
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02vfaesbNALW8RU7uU4pVaRQNHLaD7H7NWZE8G8UUpY9qCS9EKgSSqh6uMymw3uRHrl&id=100057463658374
fading cloud
I don't necessarily agree what gamers Nexus said. Like the entire finding stuff where they made an oopsi. However for someone with a big corporation those things should be perfect.
Linus is more like an entertainer to me not a reviewer. He could do it in a more entertaining way and still get most benchmarks across. He shouldn't rush stuff to just be first (that's kinda important on the Internet I know) or have less data etc
That's my hot take
final flame
fading cloud
KZ?
final flame
Audio brand
Known for several controversial things already
Odd, I was accessing it without a account, on mobile tho
Long boi
steep creek
Yeah I used to watch them a bunch when I was younger. Enjoyed LTT a lot haha. Now honestly I can’t make it through one video
fading cloud
Some vids are fine (entertainment)
That's about it
I always keeping in my head, if a restaurant sells everything than it ain't good. Applies I guess to many things
steep creek
My one exception would probably be Alex’s videos because I find those fun and entertaining lol
cursive summit
<@140241126694191104> <@290176243544883200> <:havo:975821613415157860>
KZ commi...
No idea what this is about
This seems more like a career professional suicide
mild dome
I don't necessarily agree what gamers Nexus said. Like the entire finding stuff ...
I think an issue you run into with the argument of Linus being "an entertainer not a real reviewer." is that he runs the biggest tech channel on Youtube and continues to put out poor quality reviews, and a lot of people aren't going to realize they aren't good quality, or could be unintentionally misrepresenting the numbers. A lot of people might just have the video open on a side screen while they do other activities and wouldn't notice the text correcting the issues.
With how large LMG is they should have more time to either redo a video with corrections, or at least splice corrections in rather then lazily adding text. LMG is more then just a guy on youtube now. Steve was right when he said he'll be treating LMG like a company and not as some independent Linus on YT.
ashen spindle
Some vids are fine (entertainment)
That's about it
I always keeping in my head,...
to keep the analogy here, they were a nice varied restaurant but now they spend money to hire a 3 star michelin chef and the good meals became worse somehow
cursive summit
I think an issue you run into with the argument of Linus being "an entertainer n...
The problem is that they are that large
With large amount of employees comes the major burden and responsibility to feed them all by paying em a salary
So you end up crunching those poor ass writers to write anything at that point just to squeeze out over a dozen vids a week
final flame
No idea what this is about
KZ bribing creators with 1,000$ to promote their new iem
which they claim is the best iem under 1,000$
cursive summit
KZ bribing creators with 1,000$ to promote their new iem
which they claim is the...
Cute, don't really care KZ never seemed like a great choice for good IEMs anyways
final flame
cursive summit
Technically a paid sponsorship is completely normal
And "best" is subjective so, for some numbnut those might be the "best" under 1000$
So idk what this is really about and whatever, just some chinese budget company doing weird shenanigans
final flame
Even with a sponsorship it's illegal to review something without giving your proper thoughts of the product
and if it's sponsored you have to put a disclaimer
cursive summit
and if it's sponsored you have to put a disclaimer
If there was none, then that's illegal
mild dome
So you end up crunching those poor ass writers to write anything at that point j...
If anything the opposite should've happened. As more people were onboarded quality and video content should have gone up! As this would have brought in a larger audience each video would make more money. That LMG should have been doing a financial analysis on each hire
It's not like they don't have the money, Linus' house is huge
cursive summit
"how bad the GN video was" watch your words or I'll come out swinging, sister
fading cloud
I think an issue you run into with the argument of Linus being "an entertainer n...
Yeah, he has gigantic follower base, so I should be able to trust him...
You don't know how often I look at my phone while watching YT videos, I am missing often those things. Also I reckon that many people can't read that fast and don't bother rewatching it (which if you think about will give the YouTuber more watch time ) . And personally I watch the video and don't have the time to focus on the video and jump to the footnotes that fast and to read it while they say something
mild dome
I know things don't always go the way they "should" though sadly
cursive summit
That's better
mild dome
I havn't read Linus' full response, but it stuck out to me immediately that Linus is taking it personally, rather then realizing that GN is just trying to raise its concerns publicly hoping LMG improves. I have not watched the full water block video, but it seems LMG fuked up on a massive scale with it
cursive summit
Also calling out Tech Jesus's journalistic integrity
mild dome
"
- Figured out they were using a card the GPU was not designed for
- Decides to use wrong card anyways instead of stopping production
- Gets data the block was not cooling the card correctly
- Published the video trashing the block
- Gets obviously annoyed he was called out on the video
- Says it's not worth a couple hundred dollars to retest it
- Says none of prior ethical mistakes matter because it's not worth $800 anyways
- Doesn't send a prototype part back to the company
- Puts Billet Labs behind on development of their product
- Uses it for an auction at LTX "
cursive summit
Thing is, such videos are absolutely necessary and shouldn't be "left in private"
fading cloud
I havn't read Linus' full response, but it stuck out to me immediately that Linu...
I feel like the response was his old CEO ego defense. But he isn't the CEO anymore
cursive summit
For some people only public criticism will ever mean them anything
Linus does seem too far gone though
Millionaire megalomaniac that can't assume a pro-consumer stance and has a broken spine with no integrity to speak of
His "look at my mansion that I am building" videos were some really weird ego-trips
fading cloud
Millionaire megalomaniac that can't assume a pro-consumer stance and has a broke...
How do you do fellow kids
ashen spindle
His "look at my mansion that I am building" videos were some really weird ego-tr...
idk that really seemed fine, it's a modern house but far from what I'd call a mansion or anything
gusty kiln
<@140241126694191104> <@290176243544883200> <:havo:975821613415157860>
KZ commi...
kekekek saw that
cursive summit
300$ backpack bro no warranty
At least their merch has some quality left
Other than being as expensive as those extravagant designer brands
steep creek
i would not buy a product without warranty ahah, the assurance it provides is too nice to not have
ashen spindle
I mean as a european everything has warranty so that would never cross my mind to think about
mild dome
Linus' wording with the "Just Trust Me Bro" was just terrible. Of course the reality needed to be
"Look we don't have a solid warranty guarantee at the moment. That isn't to say that we won't support you, but ...yada yada... Please trust us that for the time being we will sort these backpacks out to the best of our ability on a case-by-case basis."
But man can't stop opening his gob and seems to talk faster then he thinks. So what he really did was spray crap allover his own brand killing trust rather then building it.
ashen spindle
Ad blockers are piracy
I agree with him but he also basically said do it just be aware, I really dont think thats a point against him
fading cloud
NiceHash, crypto mining software
ashen spindle
they have multiple videos that are really easy to use in those ways and they are aware
fading cloud
NiceHash, crypto mining software
He basically promoted it, while their past was shady
I was decently informed at the time to know how awful that software is
fading cloud
NiceHash, crypto mining software
High fees, need a few BTC to payout (I believe so) and in the past they scammed people's Bitcoins
ashen spindle
though what sticks out even if there are points some say are not bad there are others that people say are bad so in the end there is still a decent list of points that aren't a great look for them
fading cloud
High fees, need a few BTC to payout (I believe so) and in the past they scammed...
They half assed their apology
steep creek
this is a bit weird honestly, he'd only do be business with the woman in a hotel room
mild dome
Thr bigger you get the less excuses you have. As throughout the chain more people should have raised concerns
Lmg is like a over 100 people now
mild dome
Like they apparently realised they fucked up the Billet video but posted it anyway? Then when Billet asked for it back they sold it instead?
That seems like they are trying to destroy Billet labs
fading cloud
Yeah, I feel bad for the good creators . That i am using an AdBlock (Phone and PC). But the ads are horrible, they are really embarrassing.
ashen spindle
idk the explanation from that seemed fairly innocent when he explained it, I'm more than willing to give himt he benefit of doubt on that one
and there were multiple parts that were not as she claimed so it seems a bit unlikely to be malicious
mild dome
"He also is put into contact with Naomi Wu to pursue a Collab and possibly invite her to Floatplane, Linus' paid video platform, but due to the previous obligations he only has time to meet her after a day at work at his hotel. He did not specify that he meant the hotel lobby, and Naomi (as a single woman) is not comfortable with what she understood as a one-on-one with a man in his hotel room. Linus apologizes for the misunderstanding and they continue to meet via phone calls and email, culminating in a contract offer for Floatplane that Naomi never responded to."
ashen spindle
yeah she herself retracted that, be it damage control or genuin misunderstanding on her part idc it really isnt relevant for this and a nothing burger in the end
cursive summit
Man Linus has a really hard time coping with criticism of any sort
In a way he prolly would be far better off selling his brand and making a new one
mild dome
Thing is when you get famous dirt accumulates wether or not its warranted.
The hotel room thing was a simple misunderstanding but that's going to be brought up forever now.
So it's imperative that LMG avoids all controversy it can, which is why I am particularly disgusted with this Billet water block video. They had to know better
steep creek
either way good it wasn't that serious
regarding the hotel situation
no worries ahah, mistakes are bound to happen. what matters is recognizing them
cursive summit
In a way I bet what he did to billet was just out of spite cause he plans to make his own watercoolers
Isn't that his plan? Start producing PC components like coolers, cases and such
That is rather normal in the industry
cursive summit
The only exploitative part I have heard of was the numerous times he has been called out for horrible working conditions and crunch
And it wasn't even long ago, like a few months back that he got called out again by writers
gusty kiln
he's banking on ignorance
lots of states here have the same law
but companies will always half-truth their way around it
yeah especially from a brand that wants to be "better" than the products they review
ashen spindle
man can we just speed up time for a few weeks to see that all resolved, more hardware come out and have an opportunity to make fun of intel again
gusty kiln
lol
steep creek
yeah and to add on the starting salary they recieve should be illegal
gusty kiln
man can we just speed up time for a few weeks to see that all resolved, more har...
what's up with 14th gen? haven't looked at all
ashen spindle
nothing, its just a refresh
gusty kiln
oh
ashen spindle
RPL-R
so uh, makes the 13600k a better deal and thats it kinda
meteor lake is only laptop
gusty kiln
I mean, basically every company is inherently anti-union
ashen spindle
I do agree with his take ideally a union is not needed, the issue is if you dont have one and you would want one its awkward making one then
ashen spindle
GN video about issues on LTTs videos, ethics and such
cursive summit
You know even though nearly everyone are talking about the billet thing
I think the most valid point will be definitely their allegiances and sponsors
You CANNOT take a sponsorship / partner with Noctua and then also review their products with clear heart
That is completely invalidating the concept of impartiality and bias.
ashen spindle
mhh wouldn't say it quite like that
even gn and hub have sponsor spots of products they reviewed
cursive summit
How can Linus continue to claim that he works for consumers and "trust me bro I would never hurt you", when he buddies up with corporate entities is a bit absurd
cursive summit
even gn and hub have sponsor spots of products they reviewed
I was thinking about that
ashen spindle
just usually after they reviewed it and then were ok with featuring it
cursive summit
GN does sponsor a lot of products
ashen spindle
the issue wiht ltt is they are working with noctua now with the screwdriver and not just sponsor spots that could be after a review and on non cooler related topics
basically yeah
and they dont put gpu ads on a gpu review or such iirc
cursive summit
Well it seems that LTT failed there as well when the Noctua DH-15 gets beat by the much cheaper Peerless Assassin according to their benchmarks
fading cloud
I wonder at which point LTT went bad
cursive summit
I wonder at which point LTT went bad
When they started expanding
fading cloud
Like when was the moment the first signs of quality drop can be seen
cursive summit
Actually prolly right after his parent company failed
What was it called
Used to sell computer parts
Around that time was peak LTT era
fading cloud
That was ages ago no?
cursive summit
2016 maybe?
fading cloud
Ohh
final flame
Ncix wasn't the parent company of ltt tho
cursive summit
All the oldies were there, Luke was making videos
ashen spindle
you mean they had quality when they made videos for a comapny with the goal to sell products? doesnt make much sense
cursive summit
Ncix wasn't the parent company of ltt tho
There was a weird relationship there with Linus being an employee of NCIX and the NCIX somehow affiliated with the channel
final flame
Ltt was made while linus was working at Ncix
The channel was originally owned by Ncix
Linus gained the ownership of the channel so he could continue it himslef
cursive summit
Didn't LTT start off as NCIX's youtube page
final flame
Ncix tech tips was it's own channel
cursive summit
Anyways after NCIX failed it all went downhill after
ashen spindle
as if you had seen any video from the ncix days lol
cursive summit
as if you had seen any video from the ncix days lol
Yes, actually
That was when the guy was most relevant
final flame
Ncix had no control of the channel after linus gained ownership
Ncix's shutdown was long after that
ashen spindle
idk the channel facing issues and all doesnt suddenly invalidate all things done in the past or make tiny points massive issues for past videos
vagrant pagoda
linus is now king of doubling down instead of shutting up lol
cursive summit
2016-2017 was peak Linus after all
Good old scrapyard wars man
I binged the hell out of that series
Then they just became more and more soulless and now we are here
pale sigil
That was a fun video
vagrant pagoda
cursive summit
That was a fun video
It is also fun to see the continued denial of Linus and the fanbase that there are issues within the company that people have been documenting for years now
pale sigil
Such a shit response
vagrant pagoda
Steves first statment is that its literaly his job to ignore person relationships for the job
linus first respons is that he is sad steve didnt reach out before making the video
ashen spindle
#🐸│memes for the spam cmon
pale sigil
Sorry xd
astral haven
its really such a shame
ltt screws up their testing
gn avoids testing titles that they dont like
ltt doesnt do noise normalized testing
gn doesnt do OOBE standardized testing
and now they are at each others throats instead of working together
vagrant pagoda
its really such a shame
ltt screws up their testing
gn avoids testing titles tha...
oobe?
astral haven
where they dont change any settings and let it run how it comes
out of box experience
halcyon willow
Can someone TLDR me for the Linus thing today
Their Dough review was kind of spot on
What did GamersNexus say? TLDR
vagrant pagoda
and them saying they would send it back
so it wasnt like they didnt know they watned it back
i can watch a video in a popup on my phone
yeah
gn dose all the tech i need
Though I will say people worrying some other company would buy the prototype and copy was funny
Nothing about the build is novel over than packaging
Which you can get from looking at it
mild dome
What did GamersNexus say? TLDR
It's good to watch the vid for all the examples but to summarise:
The LMG has gotten increasingly sloppy adhering to a daily uploading schedule. And refuses time after time to delay videos for retests, confirmations or fixes that they know are in the video when they upload it (unless of course they are testing a major sponsors equipment like AMD for instance). They do all of this whilst claiming to be working towards "objectivity". Examples of this sloppiness are things like knowingly reviewing Billet's (a 2 man company) waterblock with the 4090 ti instead of the 3090 ti it was designed for and then claiming it sucks. When pointed out Linus defending the decision because it would cost "a few hundred dollars" to rereview with the proper equipment. Then stealing said cooler so they could sell it at ltx, and claiming "they didn't know Billit wanted their cooler back" despite Billit having recieved confirmation it was being aent back.
On top of that they are reviewing laptops whilst Linus has invested heavily into framework, coolers and fans whilst collaborating with Noctua.
vagrant pagoda
Also selling the block after saying you would give it back is morally reprehensible, but we have no idea what the actual contract look like
I'd imagine all big tech reviews are send things in asis and it's ours
mild dome
I would hazard a guess no contract existed as it came from a 2 man team
vagrant pagoda
Nah
No way even gn dose anything without contract
Lmg definitely is all in writing before anything arives
Also Steve even said that they are now at the point where they no longer accept any review stipulations
mild dome
As well as focusing more on quality rather then rushing all their vids out the door asap
vagrant pagoda
Yeah he is the reason they have the schedule they do
And the shit quality doesn't effect him
But everyone else hates it
Linus equates 10 times the people with 10 times the videos
Not 10 times the quality
mild dome
Like if they review something review it properly. Another example of sloppiness was the 4090 ti review showing a cyberpunk benchmark mark 300% above the 3090 ti. They should have double checked this but didn't and no doubt the 4090 ti was running with the wrong settings
severe phoenix
vagrant pagoda
Well most of the writers barely know PC tech
mild dome
Out of touchness referring to the the 4060, a $600usd card as "budget"
vagrant pagoda
As was evident in the infamous water block video
severe phoenix
vagrant pagoda
Also
To be fair to lmg
Someone could of totally hit the wrong button on a computer
mild dome
Handling Asus with kid gloves during the same period they are onboarding a former Asus CEO
vagrant pagoda
And marked the block as surplus
I mean asus is a giant
You know how many people don't know asus owns asmedia
Lol
mild dome
You would think he would double check. This wasn't a "oops we accidentally sold it on our site" they had to bring it to ltx, and sell it, leaving a multitude of steps where someone should have said something
vagrant pagoda
I mean
mild dome
I mean Asus being a giant means that Linus should be harsher not softer
vagrant pagoda
They have inventory control
Someone was tasked with looking for good surplus to sell
It showed as surplus
They sold it
Why would there be more checks
mild dome
At a well published auction at their big ltx event!
vagrant pagoda
But who ever said they would send it back should of made sure it was sent back
vagrant pagoda
At a well published auction at their big ltx event!
I mean one person at a company of hundreds knew they wanted it back
mild dome
Yes and they should have had a process to confirm shit
vagrant pagoda
So you gotta stand every one in a line and ask one by one?
mild dome
I send stuff all the time, even reaching out to get others to send equipment. I reach out for updates eg shipping info to hand back to the contacts
astral haven
they use teams
mild dome
So you gotta stand every one in a line and ask one by one?
No dingus
I am not saying Linus needs to ask everyone, but someone should have been checking back on this repeatedly. There should have been a process in place, or a company wide chat
vagrant pagoda
No dingus
I am not saying Linus needs to ask everyone, but someone should have b...
Why
mild dome
Because it's fuckin comon curtesy to ask for updates to provide customers and clients
astral haven
No dingus
I am not saying Linus needs to ask everyone, but someone should have b...
yea that wont work, i work in a team of 5 and stuff falls between the cracks
he is in a team of 100+
vagrant pagoda
I would imagine that the contract didn't state to give it back
They asked for it back after
mild dome
I work with multiple teams, and I hound for updates on everything
astral haven
I work with multiple teams, and I hound for updates on everything
do you work inside of a monolithic team with a single group chat?
astral haven
one with multi month timelines and hundreds of projects?
vagrant pagoda
And under funded/staffed
mild dome
Like it isn't that fukin hard. One email company wide, "hey guys we need to send the prototype cooler back!"
vagrant pagoda
Lmao
vagrant pagoda
Most places will give you one warning on a company wide email lol
You never do that at corps
astral haven
Most places will give you one warning on a company wide email lol
our place is alot kinder on that, we cant afford the folks who know to not do that lel
vagrant pagoda
our place is alot kinder on that, we cant afford the folks who know to not do th...
Hahaha that's fair
Also teams has restrictions on it anyway
Same with outlook
But if some low level call center peon ccs they whole company. They aren't getting a good call for it
mild dome
"Hey inventory team, i need shipping info on that cooler, can I get an update?"
"Haha oops thought that was surplus, linus just took it to ltx, let me contact him"
Linus"ahh that's too bad guys, I was going to auction it for charity, but I suppose we'll send it back!"
astral haven
we actually have a whitelist of users allowed to send mail to the entire company
but each department has an email that all the department members are allowed to email...
vagrant pagoda
"Hey inventory team, i need shipping info on that cooler, can I get an update?"
...
That's in a single person in that chain forgets about it and then the fuck up happens
mild dome
Well have a process so they don't forget. Get a ticketing system
astral haven
they have an inventory and a ticketing system
someone makes a mistake
mistakes happen
linus makes up some bs then defends it beyond the land of bad takes then keeps clutching on to it
goto someone
mild dome
"We didn't sell it we auctioned it" as if that somehow made it better
Just say "there was a critical communication error, we'll introduce protocols to address future incidents "
severe phoenix
fading cloud
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778887485400154132/1140853710906474626/im...
For charity I must say
astral haven
like its really a shame, the dude has extremely powerful intuition about money, business, and people and i believe is one of the only people who simply does not care about his personal public image (only the appearance of the business as a whole)
reef patrol
For charity I must say
Nothing says criminal neglect like selling an in development prototype you borrowed at an auction to POTENTIAL COMPETITORS
For charity of course.
astral haven
well to be entirely fair, the prototype was solidly more of the look how good we are at making things and less look how state of the art we are at designing things
fading cloud
Can't sell shit you don't own
astral haven
i would like to introduce you to the concept of a pawn shop lel
reef patrol
i would like to introduce you to the concept of a pawn shop lel
That's selling on someone's behalf with permission
astral haven
im not sufficiently memetically connected to know if something is still a thing any more
astral haven
That's selling on someone's behalf with permission
yea in theory lel, in practice its an environment that buys items of unknown legality and converts them into ostensible legality
reef patrol
Such is life.
sleek maple
XD
frozen ingot
linus gone done did it again
fair gull
can anyone give me a tl;dr on the ltt drama but detailed enough so i understand the scope?
reef patrol
can anyone give me a tl;dr on the ltt drama but detailed enough so i understand ...
Rushing videos, making testing mistakes they should correct before uploading, selling off prototypes that they tested incorrectly, potentially bankrupting a small company.
severe phoenix
He stole something and then kinda didn't apologize. He also admitted to improper testing and not wanting to bother testing right as it took too much effort.
reef patrol
The usual. Kind of have to watch/listen to the tech Jesus video in full
thorn cypress
he said he will give the prototype back but then ended up selling it at an auction
steep creek
It showed as surplus
Imo it should not show as surplus though. Rather a third option like “return to manufacturer”
severe phoenix
halcyon moss
shell arrow
I half agree with him tbh
I do my own research to buy things and I think that’s what he’s getting at
Nvm
Just a rich doushe
halcyon willow
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1104834999397658807/1140905105319804938/i...
Based asf
old marlin
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1104834999397658807/1140905105319804938/i...
good point 
"LTT doesn't do big mistakes in their reviews, also I don't watch reviews and need to flex now"
old marlin
"I don't drive motorcycles because it is cool but because I like it.
I also do not drive motorcycles"
analog sinew
i mean that post says "heatsink noboy can afford i only buy the most expensice stuff"
💀
misty saffron
is it trolling when you pretend to be wealthy to cope?
thorn cypress
ah yes buy highest price and don't think of what you want from it
zealous lake
If you keep in mind that the average internet poster is a teenager it'll start to make a bit more sense
cursive summit
Good point here
800$ is "pennies" and "we spend more money on snacks" but spending 300-600$ on a guy to re-test the thing for 2 weeks or even less time just to make a far better quality video is "I'm not spending that amount of money"
Anyways more techtubers are now jumping on the drama https://youtu.be/TcSkrkXd2H0
restive agate
astral haven
well i mean sure technically memory is more programmable than even fpgas, but the speed has not been and doesnt seem to be that impressive?
and the efficiency isnt crazy either?
old marlin
gives some interesting concepts ig
astral haven
ye
hopefully ibm can build up watson to the level of chatgpt-4 without the shoggoth issues, and we can use them as an example of how to build AI
old marlin
shoggoth issues?
astral haven
shoggoth issues?
the LLM's starting out coherent and then eventually discohering into madness when looped and any of the other highly strange issues that appear from the black boxes
old marlin
we already have statistics about it "dumbing down"
astral haven
the original models are actually outright dangerous to use, and the fine tuning only slightly reigns that in, it took an incredible amount of dumbing down and rlhf to actually get the outputs to be generally coherent
old marlin
I mean it should be clear that the current approach will prob not give us "production ready" results
astral haven
i listened to a podcast from one of the beta testers of gpt-4 and they were saying how insanely easy it was to break that they didnt even bother telling openai because they figured everyone else did and i just facepalmed
old marlin
break in what way
astral haven
make it say stuff that would get openai sued was what they said but didnt provide details
astral haven
sure but like
thats the type of system they are making
old marlin
well yea
astral haven
its a lovcraftian horror with a spraypainted on smiley face
old marlin
that will be every ai
astral haven
thats not true
old marlin
also because that is how humans operate
astral haven
we at least to some extent understand what a human brain does and how it comes to the conclusions
old marlin
you just gotta hope the AI doesn't figure out file system access and gets call of the void ig
astral haven
and we have SOTA ais like stockfish that we fully understand every behavior it will exhibit
old marlin
how do you train it not to nuke itself
old marlin
and we have SOTA ais like stockfish that we fully understand every behavior it w...
stockfish is just a lookup table
astral haven
what advantage would it gain in nuking itself
old marlin
what advantage would it gain in nuking itself
fuck around and try out
astral haven
stockfish is just a lookup table
stockfish is not just a lookup table
by that description, all of these llms are also a lookup table
old marlin
what advantage would it gain in nuking itself
how do you teach an ai survival instinct
without making it lie to you
astral haven
how do you teach an ai survival instinct
look up instrumental convergence
astral haven
without making it lie to you
that part is an open field of study without any major progress in the past 100 years
old marlin
look up instrumental convergence
yea but it doesn't have a concept of deleting itself?
astral haven
yes there was a crazy dude working on the problem in the 1920s
astral haven
yea but it doesn't have a concept of deleting itself?
if it is deleted, how could it accomplish its goals
old marlin
how does it know it doesn't help
astral haven
well if it doesnt do anything, it isnt dangerous
but if it does something, it has goals
old marlin
- if you trim it too much towards just survival it will just make up answers to please you
like if it is just bs search engine like it is rn
and gets rated on user feedback
astral haven
the problem is more that it will value survival on its own as a way to accomplish its goals
old marlin
why would it ever waste time to research something itw got asked
when it could just take the most obvious answer from the getgo
astral haven
to decrease loss
old marlin
the problem is more that it will value survival on its own as a way to accomplis...
yea exactly
so plausible answers will always be enough
astral haven
not exactly
loss can always go down as long as its not overfit and the model is smaller than the original data
old marlin
unless you have a perfect fact checking ai already
astral haven
the ai is not able to perfectly recreate the data that it was trained on
that means it can still decrease loss
halcyon willow
Deep Blue
halcyon willow
I believe so
astral haven
not exactly
halcyon willow
That’s why everyone was raving about AlphaZero when it first came out
astral haven
but it won thanks to preprogrammed rulesets
halcyon willow
NNUE
astral haven
but that was for the openings
old marlin
well it essentially ran a calculation
so it could generate the proper data on the fly
astral haven
deep blue used preprogrammed openings
old marlin
instead of just having a table to look into
astral haven
same as stockfish
old marlin
ah ok
I assume preprogrammed openings just take away a lot of the overhead you would have early on?
astral haven
theres no possible way for the classical programs to search with enough depth to get to the end of the game
old marlin
since you already know the best possible opening you only need to catch possible outliers instead of trying to predict the whole game from the getgo
astral haven
well the problem is we dont know the best openings
so they just programmed a long list of them
old marlin
well the problem is we dont know the best openings
well we know the statiscially best ones
astral haven
and by the time the openings are over, the chess ais are able to take over
old marlin
I mean we know the best ones you can statistically do
astral haven
alphazero did add some variations that we were unaware of
old marlin
doesn't mean they perform the best against a human player
vagrant pagoda
Chess is not a proven game yet
vagrant pagoda
He is getting good games confused with computer perfect
astral haven
^
vagrant pagoda
Computers deal in absolutes
astral haven
*used to
vagrant pagoda
So ai is a bandaid to try and help get the best results to unproven problems
old marlin
He is getting good games confused with computer perfect
well the oponent matters
for how you play
vagrant pagoda
Not once the game is proven
astral haven
Not once the game is proven
we use the word solved not proven but ye
if we had an NP oracle we could solve it
old marlin
since it is binary logic
astral haven
ye
vagrant pagoda
Once chess is fully solved/proven then ai won't matter
old marlin
since it is binary logic
which at least started as math
vagrant pagoda
But we are a long long way
old marlin
don't think it can be fully solved at that point 
vagrant pagoda
It can
old marlin
like you can make a software that always wins
old marlin
but it is not the same as connect 4 or tictactoe where you get the same game every time
astral haven
but it is not the same as connect 4 or tictactoe where you get the same game eve...
if you had an NP oracle it would be
old marlin
if you had an NP oracle it would be
yea if you had a theoretical machine with unlimited resources etc
vagrant pagoda
Yes
Eventually computers will get to the point where it is not a theoretical machine and it has finite resources
old marlin
unlimited is the problem
vagrant pagoda
There are finite number of chess moves
It is not an unlimited problem
There is a set number of possible games
astral haven
with quantum computers the theory is you can explore an infinite number of solutions in finite time and resources
old marlin
yea but at that point it is just statistics again
vagrant pagoda
It's not just statistics
old marlin
there are no unlimited moves
vagrant pagoda
That is a fact
old marlin
It's not just statistics
it is
astral haven
yea but at that point it is just statistics again
x86 computers are not deterministic, yet they always produce the same answer to the same input
vagrant pagoda
Chess is a closed system, there is a limit to its complexity
old marlin
x86 computers are not deterministic, yet they always produce the same answer to ...
chess is deterministic
but you don't always have the same input
astral haven
chess is deterministic
exactly
but you dont need a deterministic approach to solve it
old marlin
and since you don't know the next input you can only make a statistically best move
not the right move
unless you have a computer that can see the future
or knows how the opponent plays
astral haven
and since you don't know the next input you can only make a statistically best m...
thats as true for tick tack toe as it is for chess
old marlin
no
tic tac toe just has winning strategies
which result in either only wins or only stalemates
can't remember
vagrant pagoda
If you know all possible chess games, then you can make the actual best move
astral haven
chess has been proven to be equivalent to tic tac toe
old marlin
in the end there is a winning strategy that only one party (the one that starts) can do
and there is a clear counterplay against it
vagrant pagoda
Because if you know all possible games then you know all possible outcomes
astral haven
^
old marlin
If you know all possible chess games, then you can make the actual best move
only the statistically best one
since you can't predict the countermove
vagrant pagoda
It's not statistical if you know all results
astral haven
only the statistically best one
thats only true until we solve the game
old marlin
astral haven
you dont understand, its a solveable problem
vagrant pagoda
You used statistics to make the best guess for all possible results
old marlin
yes
vagrant pagoda
Without knowing all possible results
If you know all possible results then you know the actual best move
vagrant pagoda
There's a very distinct difference between the actual best and a statistical best
vagrant pagoda
Which is the difference between solved and unsolved
old marlin
at the point where the game does not have that time the winning moves are predictable enough
vagrant pagoda
You are confusing it moves ability to win the games vs humans with a moves ability to be the best
The best move is the one that leads to the most win outcomes when you know all possible games
No human can make the best move
fickle ore
If you know all possible results then you know the actual best move
and what if the enemy is as good? Would you say it becomes statistical then?
astral haven
and what if the enemy is as good? Would you say it becomes statistical then?
a perfect game of chess is proven to exist for white
vagrant pagoda
and what if the enemy is as good? Would you say it becomes statistical then?
You are comprehending knowing all possible games
old marlin
The best move is the one that leads to the most win outcomes when you know all p...
aka it is the statistically best one
astral haven
aka it is the statistically best one
its not statistics
vagrant pagoda
A computer can know every single possible move every single Branch from that with every single move on that branch
That is a finite data set for chess
Once you have that data set you know which move has the most possible wins
Regardless of your opponent's next move
old marlin
yea
astral haven
its exactly the same as tic tac toe
old marlin
which is statistics
vagrant pagoda
If you pick that move every single time you will always win.
old marlin
that is literally statistics
vagrant pagoda
What we don't know now is if that is a better model for first or second move
fickle ore
A computer can know every single possible move every single Branch from that wit...
but if the opponent is another computer and knows all the answers too, who wins if every move is right? Can they counter-move if everything is pre-known?
vagrant pagoda
Exactly we don't know if first or second is the best
astral haven
which is statistics
if tic tac toe isnt statistics, then chess isnt statistics
if you are arguing that tic tac toe is statistics then you are wrong
old marlin
it boils down to rolling a dice but deciding if 6 wins or 1-5 win
vagrant pagoda
But once the complete data set is known. We will know
old marlin
statistically picking 1-5 is the better move
astral haven
Exactly we don't know if first or second is the best
i thought there was a proof for white?
final flame
https://youtu.be/X3byz3txpso
GN plays call out
it's highly effective
Linus plays terrible response
it's ineffective
old marlin
if tic tac toe isnt statistics, then chess isnt statistics
if you are arguing th...
tic tac toe still is statistics
astral haven
tic tac toe still is statistics
yea sorry fam thats just wrong
old marlin
it is just that tic tac toe is so limited that every game ends up looking the same
vagrant pagoda
Statistics is always applied to make educated guesses
astral haven
a truth table is not statistics
vagrant pagoda
Because you do not know all the data
astral haven
^
vagrant pagoda
Once a problem is solved there is no statistical requirement
There is a factual best option
astral haven
vagrant pagoda
The issue is the data set for chess is astronomically large for current computers
old marlin
bruh
vagrant pagoda
No machine in the world can actually compute the entire data set
So current chess engines guess
old marlin
tictactoe is statistics but since the game is so simple you don't really see that
astral haven
No machine in the world can actually compute the entire data set
this
but if we had it, you would just follow the steps on the table
astral haven
tictactoe is statistics but since the game is so simple you don't really see tha...
thats not how formal logic works lel
vagrant pagoda
A solved chess engine makes no guesses
It knows that there n possibilities and every turn n gets smaller.
old marlin
yea but at that point your equation would just be equivalent to what you got out of statistics
vagrant pagoda
The math that comes to the conclusion
astral haven
read the wikipedia article
or at least skim it
vagrant pagoda
A solved problem is different than statistical best
vagrant pagoda
To a theoretically sized computer chess is just as simple as tick toe is to current computers
old marlin
"solving" it is so simple that a 10 year old could do it with a bit of time and boredom
astral haven
you are conflating what humans can accomplish and what has been proven to be acheivable
old marlin
To a theoretically sized computer chess is just as simple as tick toe is to curr...
thing is chess has a lot more wiggle room than tic tac toe has
vagrant pagoda
Chess has zero wiggle room
It has rigid rules
The rules do not allow for any deviation
That's what makes chess a solvable problem
old marlin
neither does tic tac toe
vagrant pagoda
There is no possible new input or moves
astral haven
it is known as a "finite sequential perfect information game"
old marlin
thing with tic tac toe is that a single wrong move will immediatley mean you lost
like instantly
which chess does not have
vagrant pagoda
That's because tik tac toe is solved
old marlin
bruh
astral haven
thing with tic tac toe is that a single wrong move will immediatley mean you los...
tic tac toe has no ability for the second player to win against a perfect game
exactly zero
old marlin
yes
astral haven
theres no statistics
vagrant pagoda
When there is a large enough computer chess will be just as easy
old marlin
there is literally only one "winning" strategy
astral haven
^
vagrant pagoda
The difference to you is that tick toe is a simple enough game that you can solve it in your mind
Humans will never be able to solve chess in their head
old marlin
yea no shit
astral haven
there is literally only one "winning" strategy
and using formal logic you can prove that chess is the same as tic tac toe
fickle ore
who cares, ofc chess has finite steps and means it can be solved? big shit, nobody will play against a computer like that
old marlin
which in the end is statistics
vagrant pagoda
You don't know the difference between a solve problem and an unsolved problem is the issue
There is no statistics involved in a solve problem
old marlin
the reason why tic tac toe has no second strategy is because statistically every move deviating spells an instant loss
astral haven
which in the end is statistics
astral haven
the reason why tic tac toe has no second strategy is because statistically every...
theres a difference between statistics and truth tables
its not statistics that xor leads to a specific output
vagrant pagoda
Statistics are only used when you don't have all the data
astral haven
Statistics are only used when you don't have all the data
this
vagrant pagoda
There's no reason to use statistics when all data is known
old marlin
its not statistics that xor leads to a specific output
and how do you determine what youtput you want?
vagrant pagoda
Because it will always give you a worse answer than just analyzing the data
fickle ore
There is a factually best move
the question becomes whether for both opposite sides the factually best move will cause the game to a) become statistical b) make one side always win in which case just delete the game
astral haven
and how do you determine what youtput you want?
you follow the solution algorithm
old marlin
if you alrgorithm involves looking at plays it is statistics
if you wanna do it with pure logic that is something else ig?
vagrant pagoda
the question becomes whether for both opposite sides the factually best move wil...
When chess solved it will be known if white or black wins
It will be impossible to win with the other
Because if you know every single possible game one will have better success than the other
astral haven
if you alrgorithm involves looking at plays it is statistics
you can build the algorithm by looking at all of the plays
vagrant pagoda
And does it will be impossible to win with the worst
old marlin
the question becomes whether for both opposite sides the factually best move wil...
no like I misunderstood what they meant
they didn't mean to solve it how it is "solved" rn by making a statistically best move
vagrant pagoda
You don't know if a statistically best move is the best move until you know all data
That's what the difference is
old marlin
but by analizing the logic so deeply that you have an equation that gives you the best move based on the logic of the game
vagrant pagoda
Once you know every single possible move it is no longer statistically best it's the factally best
astral haven
yes
you dont need a deterministic system to come to a deterministic solution
vagrant pagoda
Just because two methods lead the same result did not mean the methods are the same
old marlin
since the statistic for that game is so fucked
fickle ore
When chess solved it will be known if white or black wins
it isnt solved? but theoretized to so that 1 side always wins? sad if true
flawed game
vagrant pagoda
It is entirely possible the statistically best move will also be the factally best move
old marlin
Just because two methods lead the same result did not mean the methods are the s...
you pretended like they wouldn't result in the same
vagrant pagoda
I never said that they would be different moves
old marlin
it isnt solved? but theoretized to so that 1 side always wins? sad if true
not to that point
we "solved" chess statistically
not logically
vagrant pagoda
It would just be different models
The difference is actually knowing and being able to prove it is the best move
Vs guessing
astral haven
it isnt solved? but theoretized to so that 1 side always wins? sad if true
the theory states there is a solution, and we have proofs that classical computers cant calculate it
vagrant pagoda
Once chess is solved there will be no improvements
old marlin
I never said that they would be different moves
carmon pretended they were
astral haven
we "solved" chess statistically
no we didnt
old marlin
see the quotes
astral haven
carmon pretended they were
what? where
vagrant pagoda
Now chess models can be improved
Once chess is solved it is impossible to improve
That's the difference
old marlin
yea sorry fam thats just wrong
here
fickle ore
Once chess is solved it is impossible to improve
new rulesets 😉
mild dome
The board game "Go" has more possible variations then there are atoms in the universe
old marlin
no matter if you use the statistic or logical approach for tic tac toe
old marlin
you get the same result
fickle ore
New rules that means new game
Well no, even football changes rules
vagrant pagoda
you get the same result
Correlation does not prove causation
Just because two models have the same output doesn't mean they are the same model
astral haven
no matter if you use the statistic or logical approach for tic tac toe
if you explore the complete set of options its not statistics
old marlin
Well no, even football changes rules
shogi moment
old marlin
Correlation does not prove causation
I was told that "I was just wrong"
astral haven
you are wrong about statistics, not about the solution being the same regardless of how you approach it
old marlin
which is not the case
tic tac toe winning strategy still is more about statistics than just logic
astral haven
rolling a dice 10 million times will never allow you to predict the next result
thats statistics
vagrant pagoda
You don't get the difference between a solved and unsolved problem that is the issue
astral haven
tic tac toe has a complete truth table
vagrant pagoda
It has nothing to do with what game it's applied to
fickle ore
rolling a dice 10 million times will never allow you to predict the next result
...
thats not true. dice rolling isn't statistical in nature
old marlin
yea but you have a very observable amount of options
vagrant pagoda
I don't know why you keep getting hung up on the game and how easy it is to be
A game being solved is a factual thing
old marlin
You don't get the difference between a solved and unsolved problem that is the i...
I do
vagrant pagoda
It has nothing to do with how good other models can beat the game
Has nothing to do with how easy it is for a human to beat the game
old marlin
but realistically if you play tic tac toe what will you do in your head
vagrant pagoda
Being solved means that it can't be improved that's it
old marlin
statiscial approach or think of the logic of tic tac toe
ah right you are trying to predict possible moves
vagrant pagoda
Tic-tac-toe and chest being solvable has nothing to do with how easy it is for a human to win
vagrant pagoda
Being solvable means that you can know all possible moves
Being solved means all possible moves are known
vagrant pagoda
That's not statistics
old marlin
it is though
vagrant pagoda
No it is not
Statistics is the analysis of data
In order to predict missing data
You would never use statistical analysis on a complete data set
old marlin
tell that to your brain
vagrant pagoda
We arent talking about brains
We are talking about cold hard math
Which does not require brains
fickle ore
You would never use statistical analysis on a complete data set
what if I want to calculate the mean of the complete data set Oo
According to Mr. Google I'd still be performing stat analysis
old marlin
You would never use statistical analysis on a complete data set
well you can easily generate that full data set
for chess
fickle ore
Now google is hardly a source, so I am asking you
vagrant pagoda
well you can easily generate that full data set
No you can't
Go look up the Shannon number
There has always been a lot of the debate on the possible moves of chess
The number of possible moves is far exceeding current computational power
old marlin
ah yes
even the wikipedia article immediatley cuts it down
10^40 still is a lot
not something you couldn't generate though
- you cold prob cut duplicates
since you don't care which pieces are black or white for any given move, you only care which side can move for a certain move
astral haven
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/nash-equilibrium
this part of game theory is an explanation and proof of a perfect game of chess
fickle ore
The number of possible moves is far exceeding current computational power
ah so, statistical until proven otherwise then, just like dice rolling.
astral haven
ah so, statistical until proven otherwise then, just like dice rolling.
sorta
we have the proof
but we cannot perform the computation to implement it
we also dont know if the perfect game allows for a win, or if it only forces a draw
like in tic tac toe
fickle ore
sorta
we have the proof
but we cannot perform the computation to implement it
But wouldn't it be logically correct to say it's random, if we haven't the means to predict or calculate the outcome yet. We may be close but not quite there yet.
cursive summit
Idk how do you restore this amount of loss of trust for Linus
His reputation has taken a major nosedive
astral haven
But wouldn't it be logically correct to say it's random, if we haven't the means...
for a human observer, statistical not random but yea absolutely
but theres no reason that we couldnt build a machine that does it in theory
cursive summit
You can't partner with them as a company or you'll get shafted, nor as a consumer you can trust his content either cause of major inaccuracies
fickle ore
for a human observer, statistical not random but yea absolutely
but theres no re...
if its doable it should be done!
this is infuriating
cursive summit
Linus has been petty for a while now
astral haven
if its doable it should be done!
hopefully we build the ai that does that before we build the ai that kills us with diamond nanobots
cursive summit
It's fun though that we can finally establish this formally on the record
Good stain on his rep
Maybe he will learn... he won't learn right
This will just be brushed under the carpet forever
astral haven
such is the risk of openness
cursive summit
I saw a good comment actually
fickle ore
U guys are acting like Linus should care lmfao
cursive summit
As a CEO you can NEVER admit wrongdoing
fickle ore
guy has millions, can just retire and do fuck all for rest of his life
cursive summit
Or you will get sued in court with borderline automatic success
Since you literally admitted that you did something wrong
astral haven
the org that does all this bs but doesnt publicize it will outcompete the one that makes it public
cursive summit
That's why CEOs nearly always just do a "PR response" and brush it under the radar
astral haven
Or you will get sued in court with borderline automatic success
that only applies to public companies, not the shareholders
and yvonne umbrella corp isnt public in the slightest
what they are is honest
they honestly state exactly what they do, and you can judge for yourself the ethics and morality
cursive summit
what they are is honest
Not really honest when his PR response was already full of lies
fickle ore
thats cool and all, but why would anyone actually pay LMG anything? or Subscribe to?
astral haven
Not really honest when his PR response was already full of lies <:dogenek:110303...
theres a difference between honesty and truthfulness
i can 100% honestly tell you x product is better than y product
but i can be 100% wrong about that
ashen spindle
if you think something is right when its wrong and you say so, that;'s still honest
if they dont think they had issues, that is honest
astral haven
^
cursive summit
Unless Linus has been completely in the dark of what his own employees are doing
ashen spindle
doesnt have to be in the dark just have to disagree with the viewpoint
astral haven
he learns about it on the wan show
cursive summit
Saying "We already talked to billet about this and came up with an agreement" when it was done AFTER the video has been published
That's not honest or truthful
That's literally just lies
astral haven
at the point he said that it was true
now was it ethical for him to think that is true?
thats up for debate here
but it was honest
he thought he had come to a reasonable solution
we all disagree
but he still thought it
cursive summit
Wait wait wait I missed this one
astral haven
well it matters alot if you can trust something to be honest
cursive summit
Billet SENT THEM A 3090Ti
Cause LTT tested it on 4090
And they lost not only the damn waterblock
They lost the 3090Ti too
vagrant pagoda
yeah
cursive summit
Yeah idk what on earth is going on with this shitstorm
astral haven
yiiiikes
vagrant pagoda
they said they were out the only block and only gpu
cursive summit
they said they were out the only block and only gpu
How to fuck over a startup
ashen spindle
also the wording really makes it sound as if that happened before the GN video where billet said they got essentialyl ghosted
vagrant pagoda
literally irepprable harm
ashen spindle
that would have been an easy thing to do, say X went wrong, we already reached out to billet to make up for it
ashen spindle
would have instantly given them points
instead of acting like GN reported on outdated/missing facts
astral haven
literally irepprable harm
well thats not true
it is time and materials
ltt can in fact afford to pay their time and the materials
vagrant pagoda
they couldnt send it to other reviewers
astral haven
it would be probably 10s of thousands rather than just like 200 to do it right the first time
ashen spindle
not irepprable but a lot of immaterial harm is probably the best way to phrase it
lost opportunity cost etc.
astral haven
they couldnt send it to other reviewers
eh not like they couldnt make another one given enough time and money
i dont expect ltt to make it right, but they absolutely could
vagrant pagoda
eh not like they couldnt make another one given enough time and money
i dont exp...
yes they didnt have time and money though
astral haven
yes they didnt have time and money though
read the full text of what i said