🔌│tech

[fair gull]

except nvmes are tons lighter

[latent mural]

SSDs on GPUs? What’s the consensus on that?

[reef patrol]

Desperate gimmick to upsell shitty GPUs with not nearly enough VRAM 😄

[fair gull]

like i can definitely see people making the attempt

but i doubt the products would work well

purely due to unsuported length and weight

[latent mural]

I like Cursingsen

Keep it up

[reef patrol]

I guess time will tell.

[cursive summit]

Wtf is a cursingsen

[latent mural]

Cursing Mansen

[cursive summit]

Ah

Well that doesn't happen too often

[vagrant pagoda]

no one who can afford that will use an adapter

lol

[fair gull]

most of the good high capacity smaller e1.s look like this btw

[reef patrol]

Steal my Pepsi, and you'll see me curse like a sailor.

[fair gull]

so highly doubt the weight is easy to support

[latent mural]

What flavor though

[cursive summit]

Amnesia dark descent monster?

[ashen spindle]

nothing to do with the vram

[cursive summit]

Tbf, is Solidigm a well established brand?

Obviously Kioxia I think is what remains of Toshiba

[ashen spindle]

its about using the extra pcie lanes if its an x8 gpu

[cursive summit]

Solidigm sounds like a budget brand, they a solid company?

[fair gull]

isnt it just hynix?

[reef patrol]

Sure. I didn't mean the two were related - I just remember seeing it being specifically on the GPUs that aren't worth the money to begin with, due to their terrible amount of VRAM.

[vagrant pagoda]

Solidigm is sk hynix

[fair gull]

ya so not too much to worry about imo

[vagrant pagoda]

so yeah they are a real brand lol

[ashen spindle]

solidigm is ex intel now under hynix

[cursive summit]

Ahh no wonder that solidigm popped up out of nowhere

Sounded like a chinese offshoot brand

But they seem to have their own fabs so, they must be serious

[fair gull]

if its owned by sk hynix and does nand or ram its prob good

[ashen spindle]

yeah its the old intel engineers for the 660 and optane etc.

[fair gull]

even better

[reef patrol]

Honestly - If we have to add anything to GPUs as a socket, can we just add RAM instead? xD

[vagrant pagoda]

sabrent is the one that came out of no where

[ashen spindle]

system ram? not possible

[cursive summit]

I still have a 660p running on this machine

[reef patrol]

Counterpoint: Laptops using system RAM.

[ashen spindle]

what

[reef patrol]

Anyway just ranting - GPUs need VRAM a lot more than M.2 mounts.

[ashen spindle]

what do you mean laptops using system ram

using system ram as vram is not the same as vram used as system ram lol

[vagrant pagoda]

same

i have a 2tb as my second disk

[latent mural]

Anything under 10 gigabytes is fraud

[reef patrol]

I... I obviously meant adding more RAM, as VRAM. If you -HAD- to socket anything on a GPU 😄

[cursive summit]

So most of RTX 30 and 40 cards?

[vagrant pagoda]

i have a rocket 4+ as main disk

[ashen spindle]

I mean had to be certain xD

[reef patrol]

takes sip of drink

Yes.

[latent mural]

That’s why I’m on the hunt for a 12 gig 3080 FE

[ashen spindle]

AiBs could do that but nvidia would lock that down

[latent mural]

4060 Ti 16gig is worthless too lol

[cursive summit]

Oi wey, it's a good card

The pricing is what's horrible

[reef patrol]

Less worthless than a 8-10gb model though.

[cursive summit]

If Nvidia gave you 16GBs for 299 it'd become a bestseller

[latent mural]

How long do you see a 2080 Ti lasting?

[reef patrol]

I mean - Shit. My 3080 from HP (Technically PNY) has 10GB of VRAM.

It's hilarious to think that the next generation doesn't even match that. (the lower cards*)

[latent mural]

PNY?

[cursive summit]

Decent brand

[reef patrol]

[cursive summit]

Isn't PNY technically related to PowerColor?

Or am I confusing something there

I rather liked the PowerColor GPUs

[reef patrol]

PNY are Murrican.

You might even say they.... they're walking 'ere

[ashen spindle]

pny makes the quadros

[vagrant pagoda]

did

pny is in new jersey

[ashen spindle]

I would assume they still make the whatever the brand is claled now

teslas ? A series?

[vagrant pagoda]

nvidia is all foxcon now

[fair gull]

long enough depending on your wants and needs

[vagrant pagoda]

for founders, tesla and quadro

[ashen spindle]

huh

[latent mural]

Planning to finally get some 1440p gaming under it

For a while

[cursive summit]

Oh god

MAXSUN made an RTX 40 series design

[latent mural]

Till I can reasonably trade it up for a 3080

[cursive summit]

I fuckin love MAXSUN's designs

[fair gull]

not worth it imo

[latent mural]

Actually sick

[latent mural]

Why do you think so?

[reef patrol]

Given how I predominantly play 2D games these days (save for Warhammer), I might just keep my 3080 for another gen or two and focus on an x3D CPU.

[cursive summit]

My weeb tendencies are being tickled

I wish that they weren't China only

[reef patrol]

God knows DDR5 is an expensive upgrade as is 😄

[vagrant pagoda]

i still have 1080ti sli XD

[ashen spindle]

ehh ddr5 has been dropping quite a lot

[latent mural]

Why is it on the backplate though lol

[reef patrol]

(Also CPU blocks are much cheaper than GPUs)

[latent mural]

AM4 or 5?

[fair gull]

idk im personally not upgrading my 2080ti as i dont really feel like the perf increase is worth it. currently waiting for rtx50 series amd the amd cards that release around the same time to pick my next card

[reef patrol]

Got a 5600X, so seems silly to stay on AM4.

[vagrant pagoda]

5800x3d here so same

[cursive summit]

Why is the cool shit only in China

[latent mural]

I’ll try to mangle an trade for a 2080 Ti and a 6600, get the benefits of 30 series for free

[vagrant pagoda]

i did get a big boost going from my 4790 to 5600x

[latent mural]

7800X3D or 13700k?

[vagrant pagoda]

ddr3 to ddr4 was big jump

[reef patrol]

I mean... that'd take you all of no time to do with any GPU and some vinyl stickers.

Just saying 😄

[mild dome]

I figure I'll leap from the 5900 to the Zen5X3d thing (probably 9800X3D judging by the current CPU release pattern)

[reef patrol]

I like AMD, but I am not married to it. First I gotta get this move done. Very not a small amount of money.

We're easily at +12.000€ for the entire move, including a new deposit, movers and cleaning.

[vagrant pagoda]

i think i might move to a 7900/6900 gpu from the 1080s

as nvidia isnt adding 5 screen support back

[latent mural]

New house?

[mild dome]

Seems crazy Nvidia puts a software lock on the max number of screens

[vagrant pagoda]

no software

always been hardware

with sli you could do 5

[ashen spindle]

the display engine is just shit because its not updated

but they likely have to make a better one next gen

[latent mural]

What’s DP2.0 for?

4k 240hz?

[vagrant pagoda]

nvidia hasnt had 5 displays on one gpu for ever

[ashen spindle]

I mean I guess there is a chance even a new one wont have more than 4 lol

[vagrant pagoda]

4 has been max for like ever

but they dropped sli/nvlink

and i cant find actual proof of 3090 nvlink doing 5

[vagrant pagoda]

amd can just mst 5 screens

[cursive summit]

https://www.techpowerup.com/311652/insider-claims-playstation-5-pro-targeting-8k-performance-mode-with-accelerated-ray-tracing

I don't see this happening tbf

8K is beyond our reach imo

Tom Henderson is somewhat mostly credible, but I really have my doubts for 8K with raytracing

[ashen spindle]

its happening just like last get was somewhat targeting 4k already

[cursive summit]

Like, AMD is so much worse at raytracing than NV that just cause of that I don't imagine them playing 8K at more than 5-10FPS

[coarse cloak]

lol 8k with RT hahah

[ashen spindle]

consoles chips!= what you get on desktop

[cursive summit]

It's also AMD tech at the end of the day

[ashen spindle]

not entirely

sony has their own tech and patents for RT acceleration and such

https://twitter.com/Onion00048/status/1497216267576557581

ugh are embeds dead again https://vxtwitter.com/Onion00048/status/1497216277953265682

[cursive summit]

Asynchronous operation?

[ashen spindle]

also that spec list you posted is just so wrong

[vernal copper]

hello, guys i bought the new lekker switches and i was wandering if i could be able to build another 60% with them. If a PCB is compatible with them let me know

[ashen spindle]

no

only works with wooting pcbs

[reef patrol]

Technically they should "work" on any hall effect based keyboard.

But unless you're making a custom board from scratch or some kind of kit, then whatever keyboard you're thinking of is either 3/5pin cherry based, or already has hall effect switches from that manufacturer pre-installed.

[ashen spindle]

true I did oversimplify it

[vernal copper]

ty for response

[reef patrol]

Copy paste to the rescue.

[cursive summit]

https://www.reddit.com/r/IntelArc/comments/158sphx/new_bios_updates_for_msi_boards_now_allow_low/

Apparently it's called ASPM or something like that

[cursive summit]

That'd piss me off

Neutral or nothing

I don't think like the word you are using there

I think you are most likely a very lovely lady and not the s word

Bass is an infection that needs to be eradicated imo

Bass bloat is not good for music enjoyment

Weird fetishes do not correspond to one's um.. harlotry

https://www.techspot.com/news/99534-new-zenbleed-vulnerability-puts-amd-ryzen-cpu-users.html

[cursive summit]

I can tell

[crisp granite]

A delicate little lamb

[cursive summit]

Ayo

[crisp granite]

fit for the slaughter

eyo sup

[cursive summit]

AYO

The thirst emanating from you right now is ridiculous

Calm your weener

[crisp granite]

what in the?

no no it ain’t that

I don’t think I’ve been genuinely “excited” for months

[cursive summit]

That's fit for slaughter... whatever that means

Really unsure if that's uncontrolable sexual tension or psychopathic tendencies

Mixed personality disorder?

[shadow minnow]

Maybe bipolar

[cursive summit]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardnieva/2023/07/24/cigna-sued-over-algorithm-allegedly-used-to-deny-coverage-to-hundreds-of-thousands-of-patients/

AI is not always the best thing for our future

[latent mural]

Anyone have a suggestion with what gaming mouse I should get to pair with my 2 HE

[cursive summit]

Still relevant? They are one of the top options in the market

[frozen ingot]

I had one of the first ninja towers back in like 2007

[quick frigate]

Does anyone have a mousepad recommendation? Need ~24"x12"?

cool ty

[coarse cloak]

the cloth ones?

I'm tempted to get some special pad like glass one and then find some skates for my viper 8k

but I don't even game lol, just going all in so I don't need to upgrade anything else on my desk

[sharp badger]

Would want to buy some special Glass pad if so like that Yume drop Skypad had and buy a M3K

[vagrant pagoda]

I had a razer hard bad for years and loved it

Wore the texture off it

[sharp badger]

Using a X-Raypad Aqua Control 2 atm.

[cursive summit]

https://thenextweb.com/news/apple-1b-uk-lawsuit-excessive-app-store-fees-developers

[sharp badger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah_MMSupDEg

[frozen ingot]

they've been talking about it forever

[hasty thunder]

Yep

testing, reviewing and benchmarking is different to actually building one

So there's that. Their first few tries will suck, that's for sure

He's pretty chill if he has nothing to rant about tho

and genuinely a nice guy

[crisp granite]

The review content is always solid

It’s the rants I tend to avoid entirely

[ashen spindle]

neat

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/CPU-CPU-154106/News/Preiserhoehung-von-Intel-Core-Prozessoren-im-Einzelhandel-1425219/

couldnt find an english part about it bc its from a forum memeber there

but seems like intel is increasing current cpu prices

like a quarter before the next refresh generation

[latent mural]

Yeah, but they are fan swapped

[latent mural]

He also degrilled the SF750

And he installed the FMMJ ram heatsinks which look sick

[wheat plume]

YouTube got a new share menu ....

[reef patrol]

Late night lanaposting.

https://tenor.com/view/jack-sparrow-johnny-depp-pirate-spooky-magic-gif-11873823

[wheat plume]

no

this is only in youtube

see the Create Post option? that would never be in the normal Android share menu

Similar but without the bottom two options

and a helluva lot more apps to pick

and nearby share at the top

[cursive summit]

So I found this weird company called Dream Machines, that manufacture laptops with specs quite a bit better than competitors at their price point

Which really intrigued me

Thought it's some Clevo/Medion or whatever that company is, similar thing

And it is

They list their panel tech as "WVA"

The fuck is WVA

[crisp granite]

When Vaginas Attack

[reef patrol]

Whatever Variable Alright

[cursive summit]

Yall alright

I wish they had mini-leds available

Seems they only peddle in this WVA business

[runic depot]

I take it my system RAM upgrade paths on an AM4 motherboard are somewhat limited?

Rather, this is my current RAM kit:
https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1536655824/F4-3600C17D-16GTZR-Specification

I tightened the timings to 16-16-16-32 (2T), while keeping the clocks the same (3600 MHz).

I presume I'm already at the point of diminishing returns for system RAM?

Just wanted to be sure. I bought that kit in 2019, in any case.

Yeah, capacity is probably the only category where I'd stand to gain 'anything' on the system RAM side of things.

Perhaps I'll see if there's a 32GB kit that's roughly equal to my current 16GB kit on the latency side of things (after I grab a 5800X3D CPU, of course).

When you say 'a little bit faster', is that similar 'in principle' to how a newer CPU will generally be 'faster' due to improvements in the architecture and such?

Or, in other words: Do newer RAM kits have a rough counterpart to how newer CPUS tend to have improved IPC compared to older models?

More efficient at the same clocks, then?

Right, but it sounds like you're saying that RAM also sorta has a form of IPC improvements in newer models.

Or whatever the RAM-based equivalent of IPC happens to be.

I'm well-prepared on the voltage side of things, at least.

This Super Flower Leadex Gold SE 1000W 80+ Gold PSU handles it quite nicely.

Oh, that.

Well, I hope I didn't make a mistake when I picked this motherboard:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10/sp#sp

I didn't make a mistake when I picked that one, right?

Rather, I've seen posts here and there (on assorted forums and such) where some motherboards have odd quirks. A few Gigabyte models apparently have some wonky voltage controllers, or something.

I should probably clarify that I'm already using it. But I sometimes wonder if I made a suboptimal choice.

I suppose I'm a little overly fixated on aiming for as much min-max as I can afford.

Admittedly, Planetside 2 sorta enforces the need for the highest performance you can muster, at least if you care about doing well.

Especially when it comes to stuff like this:

Latency (input-to-display, not network) is effectively added to your reaction time in games. Less latency means you get more peeker’s advantage, others get less peeker’s advantage against you, you can snap to targets quicker, and it takes you less time to correct your aim after an enemy jukes.

Latency depends strongly on framerate.

A long-standing bug reduces your rate of fire depending on your framerate.

There’s a one-frame mismatch between your aimpoint and crosshair, which makes aiming (especially CQC bolting) less intuitive at lower framerates. Also, the higher your framerate is the more PS2’s aiming matches aim trainers’ behavior.

Wall-jumping doesn’t work if your framerate isn’t high enough (over 60), and the higher your framerate is the easier it gets.

Which might have sufficed at launch. Unfortunately, the code has been thoroughly spaghettified, at this point.

One of the recurring jokes among the community is "Version control is hard" (referencing the numerous instances where we've had blatant regressions that bring old bugs back, among other things).

Then again, it also doesn't help that the game has been through like, 3 different companies over the span of 10 years.

The original Day 01 senior devs that understood the Forgelight engine from its inception are long gone, too.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure no other game has motivated me to upgrade my PC as much as Planetside 2.

At least, I definitely don't recall having owned (or played) any other game that directly compelled me to consider more hardware upgrades.

Which Kingston sticks?

Rather, Kingston sticks for AM4, or AM5?

Ah...

So you meant Kingston has the best sticks for my particular mobo?

It'll be something to consider after grabbing a 5800X3D, at least.

Especially since it'll likely be the last type of upgrade I can feasibly afford to buy for the foreseeable future. Rather, I kinda doubt there will be any affordable GPUs that qualify as 'hefty performance jumps' over my Sapphire Pulse RX 6700 (non-XT) for quite a while yet.

Certainly nothing affordable from the 'top tier' 3rd party companies (Sapphire, PNY, etc.), probably.

PS2 doesn't make use of raytracing, so any 'gains' would probably boil down to architecture improvements that improve effective clocks on the core and memory.

[astral haven]

bigger problem is the translation layer and how efficient it is

[runic depot]

A770 also seems to be focused more as a compute powerhouse. Gee, sorta sounds like Polaris all over again, eh?

[astral haven]

a770 aka koduri's 3rd attempt at dethroning the 1080

[runic depot]

But yeah, it probably wouldn't gain me much in PS2. Heck, the lack of an L3 cache (at least according to the A770 spec list I found) might mean that it performs worse in PS2.

[astral haven]

16m llc isnt huge but its substantial

remember cpus are different from gpus

[runic depot]

The A770 is a GPU though, isn't it?

[astral haven]

yes

the 3090 slaughters both the a770 and your 6700 and it has less than half the cache of either of them

[runic depot]

Define 'slaughter.'

Rather, are we talking lighting? Ray tracing? Texture handling?

[astral haven]

raw fps on average in most games?

[runic depot]

'Most' games, like...?

Details, I need more details.

Especially considering how practically any DX11 game is going to have an innate advantage on Nvidia hardware (my understanding is that they write multithreading into their DX11 drivers, unlike AMD).

[astral haven]

ok how about this
off the top of your head guess how much more cache the 6700 has vs the 3090

[runic depot]

No clue. I just pull up spec sheets when needed.

[astral haven]

do it now

point is cache is a pretty poor indicator of performance

cache is for gpus with too little memory bandwidth for their performance

[runic depot]

I was considering it 'in addition' to the other parts.

[astral haven]

amd is skimping on bus width and making up for it with cache

the a770 follows the more generally excepted paradyme of limited cache and plenty of bandwidth

[runic depot]

I doubt I could afford the A770 or the 3090 regardless.

Not unless I was willing to risk a lower-end 3rd party manufacturer.

[astral haven]

the more direct competitor to the 6700 is the a750, and its practically the same performance as the a770

and the a750 is substantially cheaper than the 6700

[runic depot]

The A750 has 2GB less memory than the RX 6700

[astral haven]

as does the a770

and the 3080 is the same amount of memory

yet the 3080 runs circles around all of the above

[runic depot]

Planetside 2 has never been the best at texture memory management, in any case.

[astral haven]

planetside 2 isnt optimized enough to notice textures streaming from system memory lol

[runic depot]

3GB GPUs will literally choke if you set the game's texture quality to "Ultra"

[astral haven]

3gb is a long shot from 8gb

[runic depot]

8GB was just barely enough 3 years ago.

[astral haven]

what

[runic depot]

Spaghetti code, man.

For PS2, rather.

[astral haven]

if 3gb will choke now
then 3gb is not enough sure

but you cant even say that 4gb isnt enough if it doesnt choke

[runic depot]

My point is that 3GB chokes, 8GB was just barely above the threshold needed to stop the texture choking 3 years ago in PS2

[astral haven]

you can see if 3.5gb is enough by running a 970

[astral haven]

how do you know?

did you test 4gb?

5gb?

6gb?

is there a 7gb gpu lol

[runic depot]

People have tested this thoroughly, and I kept tabs on the benchmarks.

I didn't personally test 4GB and such, but others did.

Again, this is in regards to PS2.

[astral haven]

this

[runic depot]

Be that as it may, PS2's spaghetti code was already infamous less than 4 years after launch.

[astral haven]

take a guess as to how much video memory this program actually needs and uses

[runic depot]

We still have a memory leak in the sound engine that has literally never been fixed, for instance.

Remind me what ICE.exe is?

[astral haven]

despite what the reporting says you can pretty safely guess that its not 4tb
yet if you were running this and checking the hardware usage numbers, 4tb would be what most folks would think the game is using

[astral haven]

its a gpu accelerated image manipulation program

image composite editor

[runic depot]

And that is probably less spaghettified than PS2's codebase, no?

I'm not even sure that PS2 has ever had a proper code refactor done, like, at all.

[astral haven]

lol it "consumes" 4tb of video memory, how could it not be spaghetti code lmao

[runic depot]

Again, I said PS2 has never been the best at managing texture memory.

[astral haven]

thats the point

this program just stuffs everything into video memory

it uses almost none of it, and most of it falls off into system memory then page files

[runic depot]

And does it release memory as it finishes using it?

[astral haven]

nope

[runic depot]

Does it continue consuming memory until it causes bugs?

[astral haven]

nope

its not using the memory

[runic depot]

It's still 'allocating' though, isn't it?

[astral haven]

sorta

video memory isnt like system memory where its stuck in one place

that makes it insanely difficult to actually report the usage without keeping track yourself

external programs cant really understand

ice reallocates the same exact memory over and over replacing it each time from the gpus perspective

[runic depot]

And that is where PS2 performs worse than ICE. Perhaps a better term might be 'garbage collection'?

[astral haven]

tal

you arent understanding

just because ice says 4tb and ps2 only says 6gb it doesnt mean they are doing a different thing

ice can make use of about 1gb of video memory

[runic depot]

It's also not exactly 1-to-1 to compare an MMOFPS to an image manipulation program.

[astral haven]

ps2 can make use of it sounds like 4

[runic depot]

PS2 is a 64-bit application, actually.

[astral haven]

🤨

are you even trying to learn?

[runic depot]

Learn what? I'm still trying to understand the point you're trying to make.

You're comparing an image manipulation program to an MMOFPS. Not exactly similar.

[astral haven]

programs cant track the data other programs store in the gpu is the point

whatever your gpu says is in use is wrong

except its the other direction from a standard desktop os's incorrectness

[runic depot]

Can I at least clarify that, when I say other people did testing, they essentially verified the amount of GPU memory it took to make the choking symptoms go away.

[astral haven]

yea except they probably didnt

[runic depot]

Ergo, people tested with 3GB, 4GB, 6GB, 8GB, etc.

The vast majority of stuttering and hitching went completely away on GPUs with 8GB or more.

[astral haven]

yes but was it the same gpu

[runic depot]

sigh

It feels like you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, and not for any actual constructive purposes.

[astral haven]

also gotta remember when different people test different systems, you run into different bottlenecks

wasnt it you who got rid of stuttering and hitching by replacing your ssd?

[runic depot]

That was aircraft controls locking up due to the GPU being bottlenecked by the previous SSD during asset loading.

Different issue.

[mild dome]

Maybe the GPU judged them on their table manners and choked because of it. We need to be factoring in utensil placement into all future testing

[runic depot]

Anyway, the bulk of testing done at the time, was when Polaris was still the current gen.

AMD GPUs and Nvidia GPUs of different memory sizes were tested.

I vaguely recall Nvidia tended to opt for faster clocks, but smaller GPU memory sizes for a while.

[astral haven]

look man, lots of people lie on the internet
the fact of the matter is, the only people who know either the engine or the program inside and out can figure out exactly what is causing a specific issue
and unless the testing was performed using for example all the different 1060 variants on the same testbench, youll never know what caused the issue

[runic depot]

I'm only reciting what I recall reading. And considering the metagame depends heavily on maintaining high average framerates, most lies tend to get ferreted out rather quickly in PS2

I never claimed they understood 'why' the higher GPU memory sizes 'apparently' solved most of the hitching problems; only that they observed the hitching was essentially gone at the 8GB mark (or higher).

[astral haven]

id be shocked if my nano performed substantially slower than your 6700 for example
i mean its already supposed to be slower by raw horsepower alone, but slowerrer than its supposed to be

[runic depot]

Or, in less words: They never said they knew 'how' it solved the problem, only that it 'did' solve the problem, somehow.

[astral haven]

yea by having faster gpus

[runic depot]

A Polaris GPU at the time was generally slower than an Nvidia GPU, but on average had much larger memory capacity.

[astral haven]

"slower"

the 480 was slower than the 1080 which was numerically the direct competitor sure

and im quite confident nothing changed with ps2

[runic depot]

I'm not talking about 1080 though.

Think older.

Like, the GeForce 700 series would have been mainstream roughly 1 year after launch.

[astral haven]

polaris released within a few months of the 1080

polaris released after

[runic depot]

Hm... ah, my bad; I mixed up Polaris with the generation that came before it.

[astral haven]

volcanic islands was a complete disaster as a whole

[runic depot]

Or, more accurately, 2 generations behind.

TeraScale, I think?

[astral haven]

🤨

going back to ATI???

was planetside even released back then

[runic depot]

Trying to find which AMD architecture would have been mainstream at PS2 launch.

[astral haven]

so it was

which ps2
planetside or playstation lol

[runic depot]

PS2 launched on November 20th, 2012

Ah, GCN 1.0 and 2.0

[astral haven]

gcn 1.0 was january 2012

[runic depot]

Yes, but a good number of people probably still had one on launch day.

[astral haven]

oh yea

[runic depot]

Anyway, I recognize the names "Tahiti" and "Hawaii"

Nvidia would have had their GeForce 600 series and 700 series at the time.

[astral haven]

the signs of what were to come

yes

and none of those gpus had more than 4gb of memory lol

except for the 780ti i think thats the only one that made it over that mark

[runic depot]

And testing was done around 1-2 years after launch, I think? It's been so long.

[astral haven]

in 2014 you could barely buy a gpu with 8gb of vram

was the 390x even released

[runic depot]

The Radeon R9 290X had an 8GB model launched on Nov 7th, 2014

[astral haven]

it did not lol

[runic depot]

Sapphire Vapor-X R9 290X 8 GB

[vagrant pagoda]

780 classy with 6

[astral haven]

🤨 it was not available in 2014
vaporx more like vaporware

[vagrant pagoda]

yeah it was

https://www.evga.com/articles/archive/00830/default.asp

[astral haven]

no i mean 8gb

the 290x launched mostly with 4gb

[runic depot]

The initial model, yes.

[astral haven]

the 8gb paper launched and then became available half a year later

even at the launch of the 4gb, you were over 2 years out from ps2 release

[runic depot]

People were noticing hitching back then, too.

Frame hitching.

It consistently occurred if you set the texture quality to Ultra with insufficient video memory.

[vagrant pagoda]

oldest gpu i ahve with 12gb is a k6000

idk if it works

but its 12gb

from 2013

[runic depot]

Heh.

[vagrant pagoda]

that would of been a pretty peny lol

[astral haven]

ok how about this tal
find someone who publishes their test methodology who ran gpus generally considered to be the same approximate performance ( 480,1060 or 290x, 780ti)
or how about 290 and 780
and found substantially different performance between 6 and 8gb versions

[vagrant pagoda]

the 780 did matter in sli

just like the 480s

[astral haven]

oh for sure

i think its pretty safe to say 3gb isnt enough

[vagrant pagoda]

which is why evga madd them

but single gpu

it barely mattered

[runic depot]

Anyway... back to why I mentioned memory size in the first place: I'd rather not replace this GPU with a model that has less memory.

[astral haven]

id happily get the faster gpu for cheaper 🤷

[runic depot]

Would prefer 'equal or greater' memory capacity (in addition to being faster, of course), if I were to replace this with an upgrade.

[astral haven]

obviously preferable

but if you had the opportunity to trade in your gpu for a uh 4060ti 8gb for example?

assuming no money changed hands

[runic depot]

I wouldn't trade my current GPU for that, no.

[vagrant pagoda]

the classy was 15% high clocked

so no real gain from the double vram,

[astral haven]

thats just dumb lol
the 4060ti is a solid 20% faster worst case

[vagrant pagoda]

as oc gave the same gains

[runic depot]

I'm taking the state of PS2's spaghetti code into account here.

With my luck, 8GB will have become insufficient to avoid hitching now.

[astral haven]

find someone who performed testing and ill admit you have a point

[runic depot]

I take it you haven't played the game recently?

[astral haven]

no but i dont have any gpus installed in any systems with between 128MB and 24GB of vram

[runic depot]

There is a lot more bloat in nearly all categories now, whether textures, the UI, or otherwise.

[astral haven]

i can assure you that 128mb is not enough vram

and i can also assure you that 24gb is plenty

[vagrant pagoda]

lol

[runic depot]

If the GPU you listed had that much VRAM, I'd happily grab it.

[vagrant pagoda]

i linked it

didnt make difference lol

[astral haven]

well to be fair they specifically were talking about planetside 2

[runic depot]

Yes.

[astral haven]

which they alledge to be so awfully optimized it acts worse than even shadow of mordor

[vagrant pagoda]

no one would benchmark a online game though

[runic depot]

Rendering 300+ players in a radius of 200ish meters or so means... some interesting hardware demands.

Sandbox environment. No lobbies, no matchmaking.

[vagrant pagoda]

all i could find

[runic depot]

...300+ players being a lowballed average for the sheer per-continent population we had for the first couple of years after launch, of course.

[vagrant pagoda]

some heavy bias to nvidia there

[astral haven]

lol

[runic depot]

And the texture bloat got worse as the codebase spaghettified.

[astral haven]

thats a solid argument against the vram mattering enough to overcome such a huge gap

since that was well within your timeframe

[vagrant pagoda]

because i remeber the 290 spanking a 780

[astral haven]

and none of those are 8gb

[vagrant pagoda]

which is why we got the 780ti

[astral haven]

well it wasnt that bad
it was the 290x that won vs the 780

the 290 itself was more a tossup tho for a heckofalot less money

[runic depot]

I only said that 8GB is where the problem 'completely' went away.

[astral haven]

thats a solid exception tho

https://tpucdn.com/review/msi-gtx-970-gaming/images/perfrel_3840.gif

[runic depot]

Anyway... the game initially launched as a 32-bit application, and ran on the DX9 API.

64-bit and DX11 came later.

[astral haven]

techpowerup average

https://tpucdn.com/review/msi-gtx-970-gaming/images/perfrel_1920.gif

[vagrant pagoda]

that has the 290 faster than the 780

[astral haven]

oh yea

[vagrant pagoda]

the 290 was always faster

[astral haven]

but the gap was smaller on average than the gap went the other way for ps2

[vagrant pagoda]

frame pacing sucked dick on launch

[runic depot]

Incidentally, another running theme people noticed, is that anytime they did an 'optimization pass', we more or less lost any performance gains within the next 2-4 patches afterwards.

[vagrant pagoda]

the game always sucked

[astral haven]

hitman and planetside are near 20% gaps where the average is more of a 10% in favor of the 290

[vagrant pagoda]

as did the devs lol

[runic depot]

Usually at the expense of whatever visuals they removed/downgraded.

[astral haven]

point is tho you dont need 8gb yet

[runic depot]

My understanding is that the devs aren't solely to blame, at least for the first 4 years after launch.

[vagrant pagoda]

yeah

[astral haven]

you might need more than 3gb now

[runic depot]

Smedley was still in charge, back then.

[vagrant pagoda]

back then it only matted with nutz so AA/AF

which was on only done with sli/cfx

[astral haven]

but likely the issue is folks complaining about how awful the 1060 3gb was
and that gpu had a heck of alot more than just 3gb cut off

[vagrant pagoda]

i was running 290x cfx with 5400x1920

and vram wasnt the issue

[astral haven]

and i was running intel hd 2000 lol

vram wasnt the issue there either

[vagrant pagoda]

lol

i played ps2 at launch for a bit

[runic depot]

We can at least agree that the game runs and looks worse now than it did at launch, yes?

[vagrant pagoda]

that was with 7970s

nah

it was always shit

[astral haven]

nah

[runic depot]

Rather, in a strictly technical sense.

[astral haven]

and for me it looks an order of magnitude better

[vagrant pagoda]

but yeah

vram wasnt an issue

[runic depot]

Personally though, my only gripe is what they did to the sound engine when they made the PS4 port for the game.

[vagrant pagoda]

beauce gpus didnt do good with high res still

they lacked the width to push frames like that

[runic depot]

We lost the Doppler effect for Phoenix missiles, for instance.

[astral haven]

and now i have an igpu running 4k60 easy in a newly released game lol

[vagrant pagoda]

i went from 290x cfx to 1080ti sli, and 1080x5 to 1440x5

and it ran the same XD

now i want to goto 7900xtx and 4Kx5

will prob run the same

[runic depot]

This is the Doppler effect I'm referring to, btw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxbKsIUm2Z0&t=58s

Listen to the pitch shifting as that blue, glowing missile flies by.

We don't have that effect on the current version anymore.

[vagrant pagoda]

did they drop eax?

[astral haven]

I want a 7990xtx to match my hd 7990

[runic depot]

Don't think the game ever had EAX. But we had Doppler effects for more object types, pretty sure.

We had to make a lot of concessions for the PS4 port; rather, the devs at the time opted to have a unified codebase for both the PS4 port and the PC version.

You can probably imagine that this created some new problems.

[vagrant pagoda]

i knew ps1 had eax

[runic depot]

PS1 existed in the Windows XP era, iirc

So that would make sense. EAX went extinct due to changes in the audio stack from Vista and onwards, from what I understand.

[astral haven]

You say that as if the windows XP era is over lol

[runic depot]

Let me rephrase that: PS1's heyday was back when XP was still the 'current' OS for Windows.

And not outdated legacy software.

[astral haven]

It was a joke...

[latent mural]

Mikhail Tal

[runic depot]

Even if I knew that was a joke, I would have rephrased my statement anyway.

[vagrant pagoda]

i think i have ps1 on my xp machine

[runic depot]

But yeah, audio stack had some major changes in Vista and onwards. Incompatible with EAX, and audio focus in game development sorta... dropped off.

[vagrant pagoda]

nah

mid XP games started supporting native surround sound

headphone users just got shafted if your headphgones didnty have software

[runic depot]

I meant that from Vista and onwards, you didn't see equivalents to EAX as much (or at all) in games anymore.

At the very least, I'd love to see binaural audio in gaming a bit more.

Heck, good sound design in general can make or break a game (in terms of popularity and such) in ways that visuals can't always compensate for.

Even in Planetside 2, there are guns that I find myself using not because their stats are top tier, necessarily, but simply because they sound so GOOD when I fire them.

I'm somehow reminded of the Mantle API.

It sounds like TrueAudio Next never managed to be 'reborn' like Mantle though, correct?

Ergo, no donating its source code to some 3rd party group that re-names it and continues development open source?

Mostly meant when you said TAN was only supported by a handful of games.

Mantle was also only ever supported by a very small number of games at most, right?

It also reminded me of how Battlefield 4 isn't natively compatible with Vulkan (the open source successor to Mantle).

RE Engine?

I mean, Vulkan was literally the result of AMD handing off Mantle to the Khronos Group, wasn't it?

Just made me wonder if Mantle might have suffered a similar fate to TAN, had things been different.

Like, if that roadmap of publishers and engines didn't pan out as planned.

But yeah, I tend to focus more on audio than pretty visuals, these days. That said, texture quality is one of the few visuals that I like to have maxed out.

Not my cup of tea, but that's just me.

I suppose I'm old fashioned in that regard.

Rather, my main concern is 'is it fun to play, and does it have enough replay value that it stays fun for a good while?'

I just meant in general, regarding games as a whole.

Like I said.

Hence, why I said I'm old fashioned. I don't follow tech demos very closely.

Don't get me wrong; it is rather visually impressive.

Not even casual though; just not overly concerned about visuals.

'Gameplay first', might summarize my perspective.

To put it another way: I wouldn't even mind a game that looked like it came from the Quake III Arena era.

[astral haven]

and nowdays with the engines consolidating, there are fewer and fewer tech demos

alot of the time its just "heres our github repo"

[runic depot]

Consolidating also means fewer in-house engines, yes?

[astral haven]

yep

ive only seen tech demos in 4 engines over the past year

the big 2, cryengine, and miniengine

[runic depot]

I have a soft spot for some of the better in-house engines, I suppose.

GeoMod 2.0 comes to mind.

And by 'better', I merely mean 'it served its purpose about as well as you'd expect, and usually didn't suck.'

[astral haven]

also tbh its less inhouse engines and just "not unreal, unity, or cryengine"
there used to be studios who would show off their engine to try to get other people to buy it

[runic depot]

Stuff like GeoMod 2.0 came from an era where building an engine tailored for a specific game (or a specific gimmick) wasn't a dying art yet though, right?

For reference: Red Faction: Guerrilla used GeoMod 2.0, and was originally released in 2009

[astral haven]

oh the smashy game

i had alot of fun in that game

[runic depot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERt5Y4fGPrM

[astral haven]

tbh tho some people considered this to be a tech demo

[runic depot]

It was still a game at the end of the day, though.

[astral haven]

snake is a game

quake 2 was a game

quake 2 rtx is a tech demo

[runic depot]

But yeah, innovation in that category seems rather uncommon nowadays.

Out of curiosity, don't most games made with a particular version of Unreal Engine typically have a graphical 'feel', which stays relatively consistent from game to game?

[astral haven]

thats the general sentiment
but imo its more just the industry as a whole tries to do their takes on a theme

and that theme all has the same feel

dont recognize that name

[runic depot]

Oh wow, this is even weirder: Doom 2016 and Warframe use different engines, yet I swear, their shaders have a very similar 'feel' to one another.

Doom 2016 and Warframe though. Different engines, yet their shaders 'feel' similar, visually.

[astral haven]

fun fact doom 2016 can trace its engine's roots back to quake

[runic depot]

Well, I knew that, at least.

Just seems odd that the myriad game engines are becoming less and less.... visually distinct, I guess?

[astral haven]

🤷 the easier the engines become to work with, the fewer differentiating factors between them

[runic depot]

It's just really weird to go from Warframe to Doom 2016, and feeling like I haven't visually changed games very much at all.

Makes me wonder if that plays a part in why I focus more on sound and gameplay these days...

[astral haven]

you played titanfall 2?

[runic depot]

Nope.

I was playing Planetside 2 full time when Titanfall 2 launched.

[astral haven]

🤷 its timeless imo

[runic depot]

More accurately, I've been playing Planetside 2 since the 2012 Beta Test.

It completely replaced my old WoW habit, and it replaced my Team Fortress 2 habit, too.

[astral haven]

no excuse
titanfall 2 is at most 10 hours long afaik

seems most of the vids on youtube are 4 hours tho they seem to be moving relatively quick

[runic depot]

I've frequently had PS2 sessions that lasted 'at least' 10 hours.

[astral haven]

thats what im saying

that would be like not playing portal to play wow

[runic depot]

I'm a hopelessly addicted no-lifer. What can I say?

I've never played Portal, either.

[astral haven]

🤨

have you at least played hl2?

[runic depot]

Nope.

[astral haven]

did you play the campaign in doom 2016?

[runic depot]

Up to a point.

I never finished it, though.

[astral haven]

😱

[runic depot]

I think I got frustrated with the Rune Challenges.

[astral haven]

you dont neeed to do those???

[runic depot]

Sure, I probably didn't do myself any favours by starting on Ultra Violence difficulty right off the bat, but still.

[astral haven]

im pretty sure i only played 1 of them

[runic depot]

I'm also a diehard completionist.

[astral haven]

you can go back after youve had the fun experience to do the boring bs

[runic depot]

And what sort of completionst doesn't 100% the game they're playing, right?

I also wanted the runes to make the playthrough easier, regardless.

[astral haven]

the type who waits to have a fun experience finishing the game and only cares about completing it after finishing it and having fun?

[runic depot]

It probably didn't help that I started Doom 2016 after I'd already spent 7-8 years in Planetside 2.

Ergo, I'm stuck in a metagamer's mindset, at this point.

[astral haven]

sure but missing out on at least 4 of the top 10 games of all time is kinda yikes

[runic depot]

Hey now, be fair. There's probably classics that you've unknowingly missed out on.

Hell, I missed the heyday for Quake III Arena, cuz I wasn't allowed to have my own computer at the time (I was literally a kid).

I didn't even have my own PC until 2011

Literally.

I didn't discover Quake III Arena until long after its heyday was over.

Same for Unreal Tournament.

Again, didn't have my own PC till 2011.

And I turned 30 in May this year.

[astral haven]

ive spent a long time going back to older games to play em
and the only games with sufficient polish to call classics were very 2 dimensional

[runic depot]

Pinnacle of Arena FPS genre, wasn't it?

But yeah, prior to getting my own PC, I was largely limited to WoW, Brood War, Red Alert 2, and a few PopCap games (back before EA acquired them).

Along with a myriad assortment of console games.

[astral haven]

well add portal, portal 2, half life 2, and titanfall 2 to your list of games to play

[runic depot]

I'll pass. My current library already takes up most of my time.

[astral haven]

-_-

[runic depot]

...Well, Planetside 2, mostly.

I never did much Battlenet for Brood War.

I was a kid back then.

[astral haven]

make the time for them

[runic depot]

Literally a kid.

[astral haven]

there are very few classics that hold up well

[runic depot]

I was a kid. A child. I don't even remember if I was allowed to do actual online multiplayer in Brood War back then. Parental authority and all that.

My parents weren't (and still aren't) the most tech savvy or game-savvy people.

shrug

[astral haven]

and they let you play a game called "Warcraft"?

[runic depot]

Like I said. And technically, I started WoW on my older stepbrother's account. My parents probably assumed he was supervising me.

[latent mural]

How are you so polite

[astral haven]

starcraft sounds reasonably child friendly and educational

[latent mural]

And your grammar and pronunciation is amazing

Tal

[runic depot]

And bear in mind that being a kid also meant that school got in the way.

I didn't even know what IRC was at the time.

My attention span was split between school, and the handful of games I had time to play.

Not really, no.

Unless you include the Nintendo DS.

But we had to wait for lunch break for that.

That wasn't a thing for me until high school.

Wasn't able to participate as much as I wanted, either. I hated schoolwork, and was often behind.

Still have a head full of lessons that I almost never use, even.

Never cared for that, personally.

Sitting in a classroom with upwards of 30 other students.

I just wanted to go home already.

Incidentally, I have no intention of attending post-secondary education, at this point.

Anyway... I don't often try new games, these days. I typically prefer to have 1 or 2 games that I dump most of my time into.

Instead of being subpar at 10+ games, I can focus on getting good at just 1 or 2 of them.

[astral haven]

no you just play the games

you play them for the experience

all 4 of them are practically for most folks 1 and done experiences

[runic depot]

What experience? The narrative?

I've heard it all before.

[astral haven]

the gameplay

[runic depot]

'1 and done' sounds boring.

[astral haven]

^

[runic depot]

What, that I prefer a game that I can keep playing over and over without having to stop?

[astral haven]

have you found yourself to enjoy any work of art on its own merit?

[runic depot]

Sorry, had to answer my door.

You'll have to clarify what you mean by that, cuz I get the impression that you aren't referring to instances where I can appreciate 'cute' artwork of fluffy cats or something.

[astral haven]

i mean having a work of art resonate with you to a deeper level than appreciation, understanding, addiction

[runic depot]

'Resonate'?

[astral haven]

causing significant non anger emotion?

[runic depot]

You mean, besides the sheer euphoric rush I get when I win against 3-4 other enemy pilots with no backup to assist me?

[astral haven]

but thats not the game causing that

[runic depot]

So?

[astral haven]

thats your hard work causing that

[runic depot]

So??

[astral haven]

im talking about a work of art itself causing the emotion

[runic depot]

Um...

I wish I knew how to do a convincing 'raised eyebrow' emote IRL

[astral haven]

and i dont just mean limited to games

i mean a book, movie, tv show
painting, music, anything?

[runic depot]

Cuz your statement really makes me want to do a 'raised eyebrow of incomprehension' right now.

You're literally asking 'does a narrative mean anything to you anymore?'

[astral haven]

no
quite the opposite in fact

[runic depot]

'Feelings of joy from the artwork' is part of the narrative.

For it to do that to me now, it would have to be something I haven't already seen before.

[astral haven]

thats quite reductionist and also does answer my question

^

[runic depot]

I haven't truly cried over anything in years, actually.

Literally.

And that's actually fine by me; I do not enjoy sorrow.

Anyway, being a pure PvP-only game means Planetside 2 has a constant element of unpredictability; every session is unique in some way.

facepalm

[astral haven]

but does it actually surprise you?

[runic depot]

Frequently, yes. For better and for worse.

[latent mural]

Bro got abused

[runic depot]

I never said I avoid all feeling. I merely suppress sadness.

[latent mural]

You have problems you mean

What kind of robotic Elon Musk Suckerburg shit is that

[astral haven]

nah criminal shoo

[runic depot]

I see no problem with keeping an unproductive emotion suppressed. Nothing productive comes from constantly feeling sad.

[astral haven]

well thats not true

[latent mural]

Fine

[astral haven]

half of your brain relies on emotion to function

[runic depot]

I'm not bothered by what Criminal is saying. I've heard that rhetoric before, too.

[latent mural]

We wouldn’t even exist without emotion

[runic depot]

Not the first nor the last to jump to conclusions with me.

[astral haven]

thats also not true

[runic depot]

Dude. I said I keep sadness suppressed. That's one emotion out of a suite.

[latent mural]

Life would be meaningless

[runic depot]

That said, anger is very difficult to control safely.

[astral haven]

thats also not true lmao

[latent mural]

Why do you think we get so moved by when animals show emotion?

[runic depot]

Funnily enough, I find it easiest to control my fear.

[astral haven]

curiosity is not an emotion

the intent to solve problems is not an emotion

[runic depot]

But yeah, I don't actively try to make myself sad. The sensations of sorrow and despair are... extremely unpleasant.

[astral haven]

when i say feeling an emotion, i mean your emotion actively taking control away from your logic

[runic depot]

Some emotions can be 'tempered' with logic, actually.

[astral haven]

all can

[latent mural]

What emotion do you feel when seeing this?

[runic depot]

Dunno.

[astral haven]

but if you can temper it, that means you didnt feel it fully

[runic depot]

My sense of fear would wholly disagree with you.

Temper fear with cold logic, and you get vigilance.

In stark contrast, uncontrolled fear is just blind panic. Which is not useful, or productive.

[astral haven]

have you never had fear actively take over and cause you to move your body in ways that you never would have without the fear?

even for just a fraction of a second?

[runic depot]

I can only vaguely recall possible instances where I've been that afraid.

Cuz I'm pretty sure 'very afraid of wasps' doesn't count here.

Being stung by a swarm of yellowjackets in my childhood left quite an impression on me, in fact.

[astral haven]

ok but you at least have experienced that level at some point
now the question is have you felt joy or sadness to that level from a work of art on its own?

[runic depot]

Besides the wasp thing? I don't really keep careful track of that.

Why do you even care, though?

[astral haven]

thats the whole point of works of art

well some

[runic depot]

I can appreciate competence that goes into artwork, but I suspect that's not the response you're hoping for.

[astral haven]

well im not hoping for a specific response

[runic depot]

Your last few statements heavily suggest otherwise.

But do go on.

[astral haven]

well not any more lol

[runic depot]

Yeah, exactly. You were hoping for a specific response.

[astral haven]

i was
im not any more

[runic depot]

Never really understood why people are averse to being straightforwardly honest with me.

[astral haven]

i am being straightforwardly honest

[runic depot]

That raises further questions. Especially here, since we're separated by hundreds of kilometers of space.

For what it's worth, people still put me off balance when they beat around the bush with me. So I suppose we're even.

[astral haven]

i mean i definetly did not feel like i was beating around the bush

[runic depot]

I don't listen to any music when playing Planetside 2.

I need to be able to hear in-game sounds without any hindrances or distractions.

Ha! The gunfire and explosions are the music. And the death screams are the choir section.

[astral haven]

...

[runic depot]

In Planetside 2, of course.

IRL war is lame.

[astral haven]

i wish that that was universally agreed upon

[runic depot]

It confounds me that it isn't universally agreed upon.

Real life permadeath is so... boring.

[astral haven]

well who knows maybe it isnt
but that is getting further from the point

logically speaking, titanfall 2 is only a good game

but what i valued most about the experience is how it made me feel

[runic depot]

But yeah, that's part of why I'd much rather channel that energy into games like Planetside 2; no one actually gets hurt IRL, regardless of how much in-game mayhem is unleashed.

[astral haven]

actually no thats not true, titanfall 2 is a fantastic game even without the emotional investment

[runic depot]

I tend to play worse when my emotions run wild. Especially if I'm sleep-deprived.

[astral haven]

yea but the goal of a work of art isnt to accomplish a task, its to enjoy some emotion

[runic depot]

Excuse me, I happen to enjoy 'getting good' at Planetside 2.

[astral haven]

sure but planetside 2 isnt a work of art

[runic depot]

So??

I don't judge people for enjoying pineapples on pizza. Why judge me for having different gaming habits?

[astral haven]

the point is that we are recommending emotional gaming experiences, not competitive ones

[runic depot]

My childhood was an unstable rollercoaster of uncontrolled emotions.

[astral haven]

🤷 theres plenty of time

[astral haven]

the point of the great works of art is the emotions are highly controlled
just not by you
you have the freedom to let go and get taken for a ride

[runic depot]

I've only had 'relatively consistent stability' for about... 6 years now?

[astral haven]

like riding a rollercoaster vs bumpercars

[runic depot]

By your logic, a 'meltdown' must be the time of your life.

But for me, that was traumatizing.

[astral haven]

in what world are meltdowns highly controlled???

[runic depot]

'you have the freedom to let go and get taken for a ride' is what you said.

[astral haven]

yes but like a rollercoaster ride not a joyride in a car with its steering wheel broken and the accelerator stuck to the max

[runic depot]

That last part literally describes me without medication.

The 'broken steering wheel and stuck accelerator'

Not fun.

[astral haven]

exactly

[runic depot]

And even with medication, control isn't perfect.

If this is what it takes to shift your perspective, I'm simultaneously disappointed, yet unsurprised.

[astral haven]

now imagine a meltdown except instead of negative emotion it was positive emotion
and instead of not having a specific end time, you know it will soon come to a close

[runic depot]

I've had meltdowns that stemmed from 'positive' emotions as well.

It all comes back to that sensory overload.

[astral haven]

have you been on a rollercoaster?

[runic depot]

There's no rollercoasters anywhere close to where I live, so no.

[astral haven]

ah so the rollercoaster analogy probably isnt helpful

hmm

[runic depot]

However... I did take a ride on something called "The Zipper"

Imagine an oval ferris wheel with enclosed cabins that also rotated independently.

Ah, I think this was the ride:
https://westcoastamusements.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/KJD7937.jpg

[astral haven]

yea that doesnt really seem like a guided experience

[runic depot]

Found a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8JYmGZgz14

It picks up around the 1 minute mark.

I rode it once, as a child. Apart from feeling like I might slip out of the seat, I was relatively okay.

I distinctly recall hearing that some dude's girlfriend ended up puking in the cabin, and they had to hose it out. I laughed at that, since I didn't get even the slightest bit sick.

[astral haven]

that looks like a double pendulum experiment gone wrong

thats the exact opposite of a controlled experience

now sure thats a thing that probably is fun

[runic depot]

I endured it without getting even slightly motion sick, and I laughed at hearing about that dude's girlfriend puking in the cabin.

[astral haven]

but its not a guided on rails experience

[runic depot]

But yeah, there's no proper rollercoasters in my area. I know what they look like, but I've never ridden one.

[astral haven]

yea i cant come up with any good analogy

[runic depot]

If you want something akin to a more 'guided experience', there's always the old Open Ocean Exhibit that used to exist at at museum in the provincial capital in my area.

After watching some brief bathysphere documentary, you entered some pitch black elevator, and very slowly ascended while a pre-recorded narrator explained 'what' we were seeing.

Starting from the ocean floor, then into the midnight zone, and then finally the surface layers.

The 'midnight zone' always unsettled me; I was a child back then, too.

Especially since they had a bunch of models set up that eerily mimicked the bioluminescence of the fish found in that zone.

With very brief moments where individual specimens would be dimly highlighted, showing just enough detail that you could make out their horrible, gaping maws.

Ever been in the pitch black dark, where the only thing you can see, is an eerie pattern of flashing bioluminescent dots?

[astral haven]

all i can say is i hope one day you find some art that resonates with you the way that doom 16, portals, half lifes, titanfall 2, viewfinder, the beginners guide, risk of rain, prey 16, talos principle, and probably many more that i am forgetting resonated with me

[runic depot]

You'll be stuck hoping for a very long time.

[astral haven]

nah i will forget about this conversation by probably thursday afternoon, my memory is awful

[runic depot]

Like, isn't it enough that I happen to enjoy myself when I play the game?

Is 'resonance' truly necessary?

[astral haven]

its not "nescessary"

[runic depot]

Then there's no problem.

[astral haven]

its just not the same experience

like i didnt resonate with osu

yet i highly enjoyed playing it for several years

same with csgo

i was addicted to csgo

[runic depot]

I lost interest in standard CS:S rather quickly; I didn't enjoy having to wait for the round to end just to keep playing.

I only stuck around when I found the gungame servers. Now those were fun.

I think I've only ever played one shmup.

Space Megaforce. Otherwise known as Super Aleste.

It's a fun distraction, but I doubt I have the time needed to master its harder difficulties, without having to take time away from Planetside 2.

Only cuz I need to eat.

I play worse when I'm hungry. Especially if it turns into 'hangry.'

Why would I want to?

Funnily enough, I was actually less healthy during high school.

[astral haven]

yea it depends on the type of addiction lol

[runic depot]

Well, other than my cardio. But even that was only because I biked to and from school. Both ways. With a heavy backpack. 5 days a week.

But other than cardio, I was... overweight during high school. My eating habits were awful.

[astral haven]

if you look at the game as a digital sport, and are addicted to getting better, thats probably not unhealthy?

[runic depot]

'Getting good' is a very addicting sensation.

Skill feels good.

[astral haven]

yea and as long as thats not a euphamism for drugs, its probably not unhealthy

sure but chess atheletes do the same thing

[runic depot]

Define 'athlete.'

I don't jog, even though most would say that I 'should.'

IRL? Nope.

Rarely.

I usually just walk.

Dunno.

I was going to say that my cardio did go slack, post-graduation.

Cuz that 5 day a week thing? That was literally only because I was not given a choice.

But after graduating, I no longer 'needed' to keep up that routine. Y'know, cuz no longer in school, because I graduated.

That said, I did fix my eating habits.

Looking back, it's a bit disconcerting to know that I briefly reached 280 pounds as a 5'11" male.

I weigh closer to 180 pounds now.

[astral haven]

i ended up keeping it going for quite a few years, in fact only just recently did i buy a car
and i destroyed my eating habits due to having a good job

[runic depot]

And the vast majority of that weight loss was just a matter of self-discipline and pushing myself to eat real food.

Junk food left me feeling like crap anyway. And proper nutrition means I play better.

That said, I recently got a proper jacket, so I might consider taking walks once the colder months roll up again.

The rains came really late last year, though. Human-accelerated climate change irks me to no end.

It's like they want to cook their brains until the grey matter drips out of their ears.

I should probably clarify that I am not a fan of the warmer months.

If it's not the heat and the humidity, it's the damn bugs.

And the allergens... bloody hell, all that pollen...

Hay fever sufficiently severe that, for 3 months of the year, I'm frequently forced to take Extra Strength Allergy + Sinus Claritin.

24 hour Claritin, even.

Oh, it was actually less bad when I was a child.

The accelerating climate change has made the trees even more pollen-happy.

[mild dome]

If climate change meant rich people's yachts would evaporate it would've been fixed in 10 years max

[runic depot]

Ergo, they practically explode with pollen these days, as the springtime weather keeps coming earlier and earlier.

[runic depot]

Ha! They'd just come upn with a rich-people-only anti-evaporation countermeasure, and then procrastinate for another 4 decades.

"Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish been caught, and the last stream poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money."

[mild dome]

True
So many decades to fix it.
I am willing to bet that everytime a scientist said "global warming" the oil tycoons probably just imagined how many more tropical properties they could buy up

[runic depot]

That quotation I found? I find it rings true, to a rather depressing degree.

Sure seems to be our current trajectory, at any rate.

I don't recall if I have or not.

[astral haven]

greenland the tropical resort island

[runic depot]

But yeah, it doesn't really inspire 'hope' for the future.

So I just try to do what I can with the meager resources and time that I have.

Yup!

[mild dome]

A lot understand this, but problem is when the super elite own everything, and are able to fund mass media and big think tanks to spread the lies they need. As they have all the money they need to just sail away (literally in a lot of cases) from any troubles.
I fucking hate my cuntry somehow birthed Murdoch

Oh well, humanity will live through the climate change catastrophe, but it's going to be a wild ride

[runic depot]

See, you understand.

That said, it might seem strange that, despite my lack of hope, that I still dare to desire longevity.

Like, I want to live as long as possible. Preferably as close to 'forever' as I can manage.

And that's incomprehensible to someone like me.

I used to read lots of books in my childhood. Having a PC just means most of my reading is done on a computer screen now.

Recommend a book on 'what', exactly? The philosophy of death?

I wouldn't read it, but for different reasons that you seem to think.

I've already chosen to 'not' accept death. I have no intention of expiring on a deathbed if I can help it.

The idea that my consciousness... my 'sense of self' would just go 'poof' and stop existing after death?

That inspires existential dread in me.

[mild dome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdCB9yE9Hcc

[runic depot]

No.

If I were rich? Maybe.

[mild dome]

Not very deep that's for sure

[runic depot]

Probably not very deep, but eh.

[mild dome]

Like see a coral reef, but I ain't going into a sunken ship

[analog sinew]

heard the titanic is fantastic this time of the year

[runic depot]

'Rich' compared to my current finances.

I can't even afford to own a car. Not that I have any desire to own one, but that's beside the point.

[mild dome]

https://tenor.com/view/underwater-explosion-blue-sea-gif-11884498

[runic depot]

Probably not.

[mild dome]

It seems you are trying to go for a GOTCHA type of attack here

[runic depot]

A license and having to renew auto insurance would get expense real fast.

[runic depot]

I'm answering questions as they are given to me.

There's nothing deeper to it than that.

[mild dome]

I meant V is trying to GOTCHA on you Tal

Like "HAHA YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH A SLIGHT CHANCE OF DEATH, THEREFORE YOU SHOULD YOU ARE WRONG TO FEAR IT!"

[mild dome]

AI is just gonna add cream cheese in

[old marlin]

Only reason they are non perishable is the high sugar content?

Might as well add honey

like with our sponsor

[crimson wigeon]

Deckard copium

[raw zephyr]

okay so what did i miss here since friday?

[halcyon moss]

nothing

[cursive summit]

Holy moly https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.12008

A major new advance in science just happened

Nobel prize worthy, easily

[old marlin]

wtf

[fair gull]

well first we wait for other labs to reproduce it

[analog sinew]

yeah, fake ones have been presented several times

if its real tho that would be c r a z y

[fair gull]

this could be like the south korean cloning papers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_affair

this but with super conductors

[halcyon willow]

thanks V

[reef patrol]

First of all, rude.

[halcyon moss]

haha

[raw zephyr]

sounds about right

anyone 3d printing here? got ender 3 yesterday

[halcyon willow]

ye

[raw zephyr]

first print https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668815506958057495/1133451026133950636/IMG_0731.jpeg

forgot to align seams in slicer

is some stringing unavoidable? currently using no z retract and i wonder if doing like 5mm would help or not

[fair gull]

better than any print the ender 2 or whatever it was i used at work ever made

[cursive summit]

https://www.forbes.com.au/news/investing/spotify-share-price-takes-huge-dip-amid-subscription-price-hikes/

6 billion dollar loss in market cap

That's big

[fair gull]

time for yt music to rise up

welcome our google overlords

[cursive summit]

Ngl I still fail to see the point of YTMusic

I just use Youtube for music

[fair gull]

well yt music makes it easier to find the non music videos

and it gives u both versions freely changeable

[ashen spindle]

No bandwidth used on video if you are metered

[fair gull]

also that ya

can even reduce the audio quality if youre extra metered

[halcyon moss]

and a UI that is well suited to listening more than 1 song in a row

google play music was better though

[fair gull]

never used gpm

[halcyon moss]

but ytmusic was really annoying for me to use bcause of the youtube profile thing. i had to constantly switch

nowadays i'd just run it in a browser container tab

[fair gull]

i have no real issues with ytmusic

[halcyon moss]

/shrug i switched to deezer

[final flame]

youtube musics own greatness is it's own weakpoint

[fair gull]

id switch but i dont wanna pay 2 subs

[final flame]

Large music library at the expense of sound quality

[halcyon moss]

deezer has lossless streaming by default i found out

[fair gull]

carrying around all my flacs didnt make me happy either

[final flame]

for more niche music it's hard to find anything that hasnt been re encoded to all hell

[thick elk]

I do rip music from deezer for that reason from time to time

[reef patrol]

Spotify pushed an update which is just... terrible. I can't find out specifically which tracks in my library are no longer unavailable.

[ashen spindle]

AI sound upscaling to the rescue to save yt music

[cursive summit]

Completely wrong

YTMusic has no compromise for sound quality

[fair gull]

play them and if they play fine they are no longer unavailable

[cursive summit]

If you are talking bitrate, bitrate doesn't matter