🔌│tech

[pale sigil]

Bexin wouldn't and he knows why.

[shadow minnow]

Sure

[shadow minnow]

Actually the reasoning why would make me want to do it more, wasn’t expressed in a nice way

[pale sigil]

Haha my heart did stop

When I did that

Hahahaha

[shadow minnow]

When you did what?

[pale sigil]

I shit myself once I realised what I did 🤣

[shadow minnow]

Oh

Same with when you got an android tablet

[cursive summit]

Pleasant is just coming out as a person with bad bowels

It's fine, it happens

Comes with age

[shadow minnow]

I am not here for even half a year

[pale sigil]

XD

[shadow minnow]

What’s even wooting

[cursive summit]

https://tenor.com/view/why-arewe-still-here-mgs-video-game-helicopter-gif-17583797

[shadow minnow]

Other keyboard companies aren’t for their success rooting

As digital keyboards are their rooting

[cursive summit]

Yoo

Back to tech stuff

https://videocardz.com/press-release/minisforum-launches-venus-um773-lite-minipc-with-8-core-ryzen-7-7735hs-starting-at-409

This is not bad at all

409$ for a mini?

USB4 if you want an eGPU is also a thing, the value is gooood

[shadow minnow]

Just get Mac mini

[astral haven]

question is what gen is that

[cursive summit]

Did you say something? My spam filter has filtered out the ending

[ashen spindle]

this laptop is also now stuck int he windows update screen without go to % view for like an hour zzzz

[astral haven]

zen 3 refresh ouch

[shadow minnow]

Oh weird to have mini filtered out when you just said it a moment ago

But I guess everyone is different

[cursive summit]

Idk man the blacklists work in weird ways

[astral haven]

god amds new naming scheme is atrocious

[ashen spindle]

the 3 in 7735 means its zen3

[shadow minnow]

That’s a bad name tbh, same as Intel laptop CPUs

[ashen spindle]

it ...works.. but its not great

[shadow minnow]

Too many non zero numbers

[astral haven]

intels laptop cpus lead with the generation

[shadow minnow]

Boeing 737-5

[cursive summit]

Uhh

What's DMIC

Discrete MIC?

[ashen spindle]

welll

[shadow minnow]

Pretty sure rn apple silicon has highest single core performance

[ashen spindle]

13th gen has raptor and alder lake

[astral haven]

yep but those are both the same generation

[cursive summit]

Anyone have a clue what the DMIC stands for, cause I can't find anything about it.
Ports & Buttons:

RJ45 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet Port ×1
USB3.2 Gen2 Type-C ×1 (Data Transfer, Right)
USB3.2 Gen2 Type-A ×2
USB2.0 Type-A ×2
USB4 Type-C ×1 (Left)
HDMI ×2
Clear CMOS ×1
**DMIC ×1**
3.5mm Combo Jack ×1

[shadow minnow]

Hmm

[cursive summit]

I think I figured it out, but this makes no sense to me

This is DMIC, used for chinese market microphones

Why though???

[astral haven]

like while they havent improved the low end as much as we would have liked, its still >= the previous model

in this case equal

[ashen spindle]

"dism.exe error 0x800f081f the source files could not be found"
yay time to figure out how to put what I need on an usb stick I guess zzz hate troubleshooting these things

[cursive summit]

Hold your phones

DMIC is Kensington lock?

[astral haven]

interesting

[frozen ingot]

who put ethernet in my XLR port

[cursive summit]

Wtf does DMIC even stand for

[astral haven]

well kensington is a trademark and its chinese lel

they probably didnt want to pay royalties

[frozen ingot]

XLR too mechanically demanding for chinese to mass produce or something?

[cursive summit]

I am a bit confused, cause DMIC gives me chinese microphones with a connector I have never seen in my life

But also DMIC seems to be specified as Kensington

[astral haven]

it looks like standard locking ethernet ports?

[frozen ingot]

sounds like a mixup/typo

[astral haven]

ive seen it on dmx equipment

[frozen ingot]

strange choice for mic connectors

quite a lot cheaper to manufacture than XLR I suppose

[astral haven]

doubt it

but you get 4 twisted pair on 1 cable

[frozen ingot]

plastic block with some pins in it vs large metal barrel with thicc pins and locking tab

[cursive summit]

I remember reading that ethernet cables support audio and I think even display passthrough, but I have not once see them used for that purpose

[astral haven]

8 connectors vs 3 lel

[frozen ingot]

for some reason they decided to keep the female locking tab on there

[frozen ingot]

not like you need to use all pins

[astral haven]

you need to have the tolerances to hit the slots

[frozen ingot]

those tiny flat pins likely still accounts for less weight in metals vs the tanky XLR connector

[astral haven]

weight in metals isnt the whole story

xlr can be alu with zero problems

rj45 has to be copper due to it requiring bending

and again tolerances

[frozen ingot]

its possible you could get away with using similar tooling/equipment to make strips of ethernet pin connectors as you would already use to make flexing ribbon connectors and such

[astral haven]

nah they would reuse the equipment making ethernet connectors lel
but the tolerances of that equipment needs to be more precise than at least 3 pin xlr

have you looked at an rj45 jack recently lel?

like look carefully

[reef patrol]

I have a 30m cable like that.

[frozen ingot]

I would assume china is most likely sitting on more equipment for making computer/networking parts than they are stuff for making ancient barrel plugs that's relatively obscure outside of the pro audio industry

[astral haven]

now that is a believable reason

[frozen ingot]

also ethernet cables are already utilized for some studio recording equipment, but that's a different rodeo I guess

[cursive grove]

I just use a wireless cable

[astral haven]

the audio industry is happyto adopt a new standard whenever they can lel
3, 4, and 5 pin xlr are all used

[cursive grove]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-meme-black-guy-cries-sad-man-thank-god-for-my-reefer-hood-news-gif-24902056

[frozen ingot]

in a way I appreciate that industry largely sticking to the big old sturdy plug types for connectivity, stuff is really hard to break

[astral haven]

but yea cat5e is fantastic
550mhz bandwidth 96v 1a

[frozen ingot]

few people miss the parallel and serial ports of old computing but those things were at least close to earthquake proof with their screw-in securing pins

[astral haven]

i much prefer rj45 serial tho

[frozen ingot]

modern thunderbolt, usb-c etc feels like it'll break if you look at it funny

by comparison

[astral haven]

except they dont

ive had serial pins bend on me, and usb c just hasnt

[frozen ingot]

I've had various smol usb plugs and cables develop connection issues from a couple years wear

[astral haven]

but was it usb c?

[frozen ingot]

one case of usb-c so far

[astral haven]

have you ever used serial to that extent?

[frozen ingot]

to its credit its a major improvement over mini/micro

[astral haven]

i suspect miniusb is good for more cycles than serial is

oh also screwin usb c is something ive seen a few times at this point tho its mostly for waterproofing

[frozen ingot]

the pins are admittedly a potential weakpoint on serial for repeatedly plugging in and out a lot, but the port and casing itself will survive a lot of stress once its hooked up

[astral haven]

sure but you can just add screws to usb c

[frozen ingot]

yeah, though if you subject it to a sudden violent jolt like your kid tripping over the cable or something dropping on the plug there's a pretty good chance the port/plug is done for

[astral haven]

🤷 if its screwed in, the weakpoint is the cable not the plug

[frozen ingot]

the metal plug on the usb-c cable extends into the port though and will contribute some lever effect

I literally had a micro-usb port pop off the board like that once

[astral haven]

thats fair

and its true that i have these magnetic usb c adapters on all my equipment to avoid that lel

[frozen ingot]

are there magnetic plugs that offers the full connectivity of the port or is it mainly intended for charging/power

[astral haven]

ive run an egpu over these lmao

full fat 2.whatever GB/s

[frozen ingot]

interesting

something like that would come in handy for some older devices of mine using those hateful micro-usb plugs

[astral haven]

can be found via "24 pin usb c magnetic" on your choice of online store
unfortunately the micro usb ones are hot garbage

[frozen ingot]

shame

I get mildly anxious each time I plug/unplug those bastards

[astral haven]

if you do need just charging the round ones work fine

[frozen ingot]

on some of them I could get away with just power transfer, on others it needs data transfer

[astral haven]

🤷 good luck
ive been able to get all my devices that need to be unplugged away from micro

and for mini the only thing i use is a drawing tablet which is fine

actually thats not true my drawing tablet is usbc now

[frozen ingot]

I'd just swap out the port altogether if possible but that's a rabbit hole of its own to figure out

[final flame]

Do they have a mini B one

[astral haven]

i only have the usb c one

and that specific genre of cable only has usb c plugs

[final flame]

Among many reasons why I think right angled cables should be more common

It's closer to the port so it's not going to have anywhere near as much lever force as a straight cable

[astral haven]

The adapter I end up using the most lel

but really straight or angled doesnt matter if its magnetic 😛

[frozen ingot]

yeah

[halcyon moss]

https://www.adafruit.com/product/5452 🤔

[astral haven]

ye they are great

[frozen ingot]

straight is more universal but angled has significant benefits in the right place

[astral haven]

i use one for my kvm and my headphone charger, (different voltages obviously)

[halcyon moss]

I might get one for my laptop.. just need a 100w power delivery brick

[frozen ingot]

one thing I was uncertain about regarding those usb-c to barrel plugs last time I looked into it was the polarity

the barrel plug will have its poles split between pin and barrel casing, but usb-c omnidirectional

[astral haven]

any psycopath making live sleeve barrel deserves death

and usb c is reversible

[frozen ingot]

how does it maintain the same polarity regardless of how the usb-c is connected

[astral haven]

???

[halcyon moss]

there is a chip in there anyway

[astral haven]

usb c is (approximately) rotationally symmetric

[frozen ingot]

was thinking whether there's a way to flip the + and - orientation on the barrel plug end

[astral haven]

...

[frozen ingot]

that doesn't really change the fact that center negative plugs are a thing on some devices

[astral haven]

center negative is the correct one

lel

but there are adapters

[frozen ingot]

isn't it more common with center positive plugs these days

like the only stuff I got that use center negative are some older made in japan electronics

[astral haven]

the only janky one ive seen is doublesided sleeves, where theres an outer positive then inside the sleeve is negative, then theres a comm line pin in the center

[frozen ingot]

got a rack unit here that uses a barrel plug, to receive AC power

while were on the subject of jank

[astral haven]

oh god

[frozen ingot]

yes it wants fucking 12V AC

[astral haven]

yay for transformers

[frozen ingot]

not at all an absolute pain in the ass to find a replacement power supply/transformer for

also had one wanting 9V AC, using a 3.5mm "headphone" style plug

[crimson wigeon]

What could possibly go wrong

[frozen ingot]

the wonders of old esoteric equipment

[final flame]

Then you have that one thing that requires a very specific power requirement with a decimal

[astral haven]

those are usually lies tho lel

[frozen ingot]

could always be worse though, like some ancient obscure DIN connector that hasn't had any replacements manufactured in the past 4 decades

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/2f854f94-1a2b-4f1f-bca0-0f0ebba24dca.e014177ec733fa056234df2e97eccf82.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF

the plug is "mono" though so no risk of mixing things up

[astral haven]

i actually wonder how many mic or headphone jacks could handle that

[frozen ingot]

might just survive 9V

might

[crimson wigeon]

Mmm the sweet sound of AC

[frozen ingot]

I managed to send 48V phantom power to a headphone jack once

it did not survive that

[astral haven]

yea i have been delaying getting phantom blockers for my interface
i should probably do that sooner than later

[frozen ingot]

luckily the rest of the device survived unscathed

[astral haven]

my mixer has 1 button for phantom power on all 16 xlrs onboard lel

[frozen ingot]

oof

my interface at the time had a toggle switch for it, hadn't really used the inputs on it prior to that so had no clue what position that switch was in

ofc it was in 48V

if anything it taught me a valuable lesson though

it can only be accessed directly in the software on my current interface

[astral haven]

fortunately my mixer and interface both have yellow leds for phantom power

[frozen ingot]

same on this one

[astral haven]

but the destroy my interfaces button does concern me still :/

it would be 8x the cost of my mixer to protect all of them tho

[frozen ingot]

my cheaper second interface has push buttons for toggling 48V, that I am a bit wary of

obligatory triple check every time something gets plugged in

[astral haven]

yea but how often are you plugging an interface into an input port on another interface?

most xlr mics can handle phantom power without dying

[frozen ingot]

I have that interface for my laptop, in my home setup I have the outputs from it going into my main desktop interface

[astral haven]

lucky me making that all digital i guess lel

[frozen ingot]

I rarely do the other way around

[astral haven]

toslink all the things

[frozen ingot]

I could probably do it via optical or spdif if I wanted, but ehh this works

[astral haven]

i bought this absolutely wonderful full digital mixer with 4 toslink ins and 4 outs

has a web interface for control

its a beaut

[frozen ingot]

motu lp32?

[astral haven]

yeeee

[frozen ingot]

looks pretty similar to the digiface usb on i/o

[astral haven]

except the digiface is just an io card

no hardware capabilities, all it does is io

now you can probably hook it up to a pi for dat sweet cheap setup, but you arent getting line level latency

you could definetly also do the same thing with 4 of those toslink io cards that i found somewhere

https://hifimediy.com/product/s2-digi/

this

[ashen spindle]

Resetting this laptop is taking ages zzzz 4200U is showing its age I guess

[frozen ingot]

if my current interface ever bites it I'd be curious to go that kind of route, more freedom to choose an analog stage of your liking

[astral haven]

yee

[gusty kiln]

Nice bleeding

[ashen spindle]

yeah, not great for dark stuff but I used it for coding in uni and that was fine

[crimson wigeon]

JuSt InStAlL lInUx To BrInG oLd HaRdWaRe BaCk To LiFe

[ashen spindle]

I rather commit unalive before I spend time setting up linux for my mothers laptop

[astral haven]

problem is that the motu doesnt resample the inputs, so everything has to be coordinated, it supports some jitter and clock drift but not enough to accept 48 and 441 inputs at the same time

[gusty kiln]

I'd definitely want an oled screen whenever I upgrade my laptop

[astral haven]

i had to buy an ultramatch pro because my chromecast would output random samplerates

[frozen ingot]

I'll do whatever repairs it takes to get my current one back to life in such an occurence though, fully replacing is an expense I'd rather avoid unless I'd have to

[astral haven]

agreed

[frozen ingot]

someday I'll invest in a better ad/da converter than what I currently have tho

20-bit and unbalanced I/O is not ideal

[astral haven]

i got omega lucky on my analog mixer ($60 brand new 16 channel proper studio mixer) where i was expecting to spend hundreds, I was able to figure out that i didnt want to go the analog route without wasting too much

and i still have the mixer

[frozen ingot]

fook me the ADA8200 has gone up in price

[astral haven]

now that is cool

oh my god it has adat

that would be excellent for me!

[frozen ingot]

makes it worth looking into a used optopre

[astral haven]

230 new vs 350 used

tbh havent looked into it bc i havent really needed much io

[frozen ingot]

the ADA8200 are very handy bits of kit, not much else on the market that'll do its job

except the optopre units from focusrite starting at twice the price

[astral haven]

i want an ultramatch pro for every input of my motu lel

definetly a different category of device

[frozen ingot]

https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--AvzL96Ya--/f_auto,t_large/v1638909298/dgmedri2tx1rf6640qxb.jpg

currently using one of these

does the job but there's def room for improvements

[astral haven]

rca
sad

[frozen ingot]

yep

not ideal

[astral haven]

1/4 trs everything imo

rca should be for spdif only imo

[frozen ingot]

considered looking into modifying it to balanced trs but I'd be approaching the total cost of that behr just getting the jacks needed

[astral haven]

yup lol

oh what would make me the happiest is getting everything on avb but that would be a big investment

[frozen ingot]

or collect 16 scrap devices that happens to have large headphone jacks for scavenging

[astral haven]

a single dead mixer would do it

[frozen ingot]

most mixer inputs aren't balanced/stereo tho are they?

[astral haven]

mine is?

i mean my mixer is full balanced with both xlr and quarter inch options lel

[frozen ingot]

hmm

yeah maybe fancier ones have it these days

[astral haven]

i mean this one is a hardware revision of a 20 year old one lel that is externally identical

[frozen ingot]

don't think those lower level behr or mackie mixers you'll find in some school or community hall PA/stage setup has it

could be wrong tho

[steel lodge]

Can i use all keycaps for my Wooting?

[astral haven]

Lol that's where mine came from
It was a spare that was never used and then sold from a local uni
I had the same model in the highschool theater

The fancy ones have XLR trs combo jacks lel

[frozen ingot]

anything cherry mx compatible

well I'll be sure to investigate this in the event of finding one

[astral haven]

damnable usb a inputs, but it was half the price,
also apparently full hdmi 2.1 for my monitor, 🤞

[pale sigil]

All I wanna do is change audio driver

;_;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cybSt2U1u60

[wary haven]

Do I need the switch lubrication if I bought a new keyboard from wooting?

[reef patrol]

Lube is one of the things you won't know you need till you've tried it.

[astral haven]

thats not just the audio driver lel, thats the audio mixing engine

definetly wont fault linux for making that difficult, its probably the easiest os to do that on...

[cursive grove]

You don’t need it but personally I find it makes it feel better

Also it was pretty fun to lick all the old lube off the switches

[empty wren]

[barren folio]

iPhones are trendy 🤷‍♂️

[empty wren]

Yes but sounds like peer pressure

[wheat plume]

Oh

It is

My sister's friends looked down on her when she switched to Android

She ain't friends with them anymore

[empty wren]

Pretty fucked not gonna lie

[wheat plume]

Yep

[rancid beacon]

lol

[tribal dirge]

Idk, I have both lol

One work phone and one main phone.

[empty wren]

I mean that part makes sense

Employers in some cases calling at wrong times

[tribal dirge]

Mhm, physically removing the source of that from your break time is so nice.

[tribal dirge]

Also that’s caused by apple, apple makes it a pain for iPhones to work with android phones on purpose.

Which gives a negative impression on android to iPhone users.

[empty wren]

Eh, I think yougins here call it status symbol

Same with airpods

[tribal dirge]

Mhm

[empty wren]

Apple being a pain is likely people staying with them

[tribal dirge]

Well, I have AirPods, because the automatic switching between devices is nothing short of magical.

I don’t have to think about them.

[wheat plume]

Most iPhone users I know think Android is ugly and that apps constantly crash

[empty wren]

But then again a ton of people these days are utterly clueless on technology

[wheat plume]

Cause they think it still looks like Android 3

[tribal dirge]

I have a pixel 7 pro, and it’s fine

[wheat plume]

Yep

Xd

It's been fine since Android 5

[empty wren]

That used to be the case a long time ago

[wheat plume]

Yes
But that's their only impression of Android

[empty wren]

So dumb

[empty wren]

Does it have issues?

[frozen ingot]

Android is fine for most part imo, is its parent I dislike

[mild dome]

Some fun videos I saw back in the day were people giving Iphone users Android and telling them it was the next IOS version. And the Iphone users then creaming themselves at all the "new" features that were added in the "IOS" update

Personally I always get annoyed with Apple, because I wind up needing to do something "niche", but because the Apple OS is so heavily locked down to protect the users from themselves that I can't actually get the thing I want done.

[frozen ingot]

issue was for a long time most of the amazing extra features android had were sorta jank and not working all that great

[empty wren]

Precisely

[empty wren]

Yes but some of that was innovation

[frozen ingot]

so yeah it technically had the features but the polish wasn't there

[empty wren]

Lg on g6 had a curved screen and not gonna lie: it is a loss of screen

But it does look nice and on the g6 the light bleed was bad

[mild dome]

One example: For the longest time it was impossible to just plug a USB into Iphones. Like it wasn't a feature I used often on Android, but if I needed to transfer a large file from the phone to a PC it was super useful

[empty wren]

Yep

Had to use itunes to sync it

[frozen ingot]

apple can take ages to implement new shit but when they do its pretty rarely half-baked

[empty wren]

Mmm yes always on display

[frozen ingot]

I mean samsung removes features from one update to another, so there's that too

they gimped the always on display on my note

[empty wren]

Well at least you can downgrade

Apple stops signing versions

[mild dome]

Also their anti-repair shit is reaching comical heights

Replace power management chip
"Oh sorry, we needed to lock out your entire device because "security", please understand that you now MUST buy a new device immediately"

[empty wren]

Yeah that part is stupid

[frozen ingot]

running old versions less secure

[empty wren]

I wonder if they will ever put a hardware lock on batteries

[frozen ingot]

apple is a cunty company don't get me wrong, but all the big dogs do this crap

[empty wren]

Not unless you go on chrome and look for hot Asian singles

[mild dome]

You can always root an android device to install someone else's OS can't you?

[frozen ingot]

last it was samsung who introduced another nail in the coffin for repair rights

[empty wren]

Root is a bad word to use, instead use unlock the bootloader

Root just means you can modify the installed system

[frozen ingot]

and they've done serializing components and locking people out from using certain features when replacing parts as well

[mild dome]

I mean even when Samsung does so, I can transfer everything to another manufacturer since almost all of them use the same OS and architecture

[empty wren]

Yep

Apple is the only solution on one platform while android has oodles of oems

[mild dome]

When Apple does it, it's their way or the highway. When Samsung does it, I can go to an adjacent road and enjoy almost all the same amenities

[frozen ingot]

shame you're stuck with googles clingy privacy routines tho

[empty wren]

Nope

[mild dome]

Implying Apple is any better

[frozen ingot]

regardless of what you pick

[empty wren]

You can remove Google entirely

If you want

[frozen ingot]

in that regard, it is

[frozen ingot]

I mean yeah, and lose out on a bunch of functionality

[empty wren]

Yes but you have the option too

Also there is a way to spoof Google services

Just a bit more effort to set up

[mild dome]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/01/30/fourth-class-action-lawsuit-filed-against-apple-for-alleged-privacy-violations

[frozen ingot]

still not as bad as google

[mild dome]

At least Google is 50% honest, Apple is like 10%

[frozen ingot]

but yes apple does this crap

[empty wren]

In fact I think some phones now from China without Google applications use aurora store which even smaller use of Google pieces

You can install Google play store apps without using the playstore

[empty wren]

Apple could be 5% cuz we do not know what they really do

[frozen ingot]

tbh I'd prefer not using either, if viable alternatives existed

[empty wren]

Okay use blackberry

[mild dome]

Welcome to the Chinese spyware era

Want to play the latest game? Install this rootkit please?

[frozen ingot]

you either resign to a life of digital hermitry or surrender to being big corpos bitch in order to enjoy the perks of their ecosystems

[empty wren]

Not a big deal if you do not live in china

[wheat plume]

Xiaomi have to make a global and EU versions of MIUI on their phones that don't track user data

[frozen ingot]

also ads in play store apps are fuckin out of control

[frozen ingot]

fat chance

they are a chinese company

[empty wren]

Whatcha mean out of control

[frozen ingot]

which means they answer to the ccp

[empty wren]

And what someone can do is unlock the bootloader and load aosp on it

Problem solved

[wheat plume]

They can't, in the EU due to the data laws here

[frozen ingot]

anything a chinese company will tell you about privacy or data collection is a big fat lie

[frozen ingot]

china doesn't give a shit

literally zero

[mild dome]

I don't want China's gov to know my fav brand of pron, they'll use it to make a sexy assassin robot to kill me

[empty wren]

[wheat plume]

Xd

[frozen ingot]

they got that stuff collecting info in the background

[empty wren]

Honestly eh

Just would be nice if they can make it less resource intensive

[frozen ingot]

by all means chinese brands make some pretty well polished devices these days, but I would never assume for a second they're not riddled with ccps prying eyes

its just what they do

[wheat plume]

I just noticed I did a funny and put a tile that makes a lot of light next to a tile that makes things darker

[empty wren]

The way I think of it sheep is like this all the governments in the world be doing this shit and I just cannot be bothered to care anymore so long as my own cannot spy on me

[frozen ingot]

soon enough china government is your government

[empty wren]

Cool

I want inexpensive production

[empty wren]

Would be a dream

[frozen ingot]

and have your windows and front door welded shut when you're suspected to be contagious

[empty wren]

Whatever

US likes to shoot random balloons down probably will not end up happening

[frozen ingot]

their zero covid obsession even got their otherwise obedient population to grow tired of their shit

[empty wren]

To be fair to China

They have a lot of people

[frozen ingot]

quite

[empty wren]

And I am sure it would spread like a wildfire

Especially considering they have respiratory issues already

[cursive grove]

There’s other countries then China that has slaves

[frozen ingot]

yeah, problem is ccp idea of reaching zero covid mostly end up backfiring

[empty wren]

India is probably the next china

[cursive grove]

I remember when everything used to say Made in Japan on it

[astral haven]

Apparently fake made in America stickers are the made in China stickers of China

[empty wren]

Lol

[frozen ingot]

eventually india will be the new made in china from two or so decades ago

janky low quality but stupid inexpensive manufacturing

[empty wren]

Some stuff is being done in Vietnam or Taiwan as well for better quality even today

Man I do wonder though

Will china ever leave the industrial era

And what would happen if it did

Since it has to happen eventually right

[frozen ingot]

they kinda need a total societal reform to really progress

[empty wren]

Hmm

[frozen ingot]

ccp won't let that happen if they can help it

current model is very profitable for them

[empty wren]

I wonder if it could rb a possibility after a years of India taking over

[tribal dirge]

True

[frozen ingot]

its gonna be a long and difficult road

[empty wren]

Well I mean look at what they are doing in africa

Helping to put it into what could be the following industrial age after India

And probably have some stake in that as well

[tribal dirge]

Who knows where nations like America would be by then.

[frozen ingot]

similar to russia they've been subjected to decades of conditioning and hardlining rulership

[empty wren]

Population decline at the very least

[tribal dirge]

Probably

I mean, I don’t plan on having any children.

[empty wren]

Who knows we may have lots of old people

Like 120years old or so

Just to hypothesize

What if America becomes the retirement place

[frozen ingot]

we're experiencing some pretty historically significant times atm

[mild dome]

With America's current Healthcare system, they would need to export their old to Canada to keep costs down

[empty wren]

Fair point

[tribal dirge]

Lmao, so true,

[frozen ingot]

a lot of our beliefs and ideas on how the world around us works are being turned on its head and future is looking increasingly uncertain

[empty wren]

Inb4 in two years we all become furries

[frozen ingot]

I'll be that one man who discovered the cure

[mild dome]

If I could at this moment become a dragon, I fucking would.

[tribal dirge]

[empty wren]

[tribal dirge]

Nah, I still want my hands

[empty wren]

For what?

[tribal dirge]

For my CNC mill and my lathe, I wanna make stuff.

[empty wren]

Oh.. okay

[mild dome]

Dragon's have hands
Big hands
Perfect for
Dragon
Things

CNC with your claws damnit

[tribal dirge]

Ah yes, tiny Dino hands

[frozen ingot]

as crappy as humanity may be I prefer to stay this way thnx

[tribal dirge]

Same (for the most part)

[empty wren]

I mean you could become a sheep nightman

How does that sound

Just stay away from the wolves

[frozen ingot]

not great honestly

[empty wren]

[tribal dirge]

You’d think you have good muscle control, until you see what a cnc machine can do.

[frozen ingot]

imagine having to walk on all 4

[empty wren]

Fair enough

[frozen ingot]

sounds kinda weak ngl

[frozen ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-conduciendo-gif-24377638

[tribal dirge]

[empty wren]

We can be monke until recession and COVID ends

[mild dome]

Human spines were a mistake

Ooh, Owie my back

No but seriously, if we had engineering done on the human body, you would need to take some notes from the Shrew's spine

[frozen ingot]

pretty sure animals experience bad backs, they just don't have a voice they can use to complain about it

[pale sigil]

Why is Linux such a pita

[empty wren]

Wrong channel

[frozen ingot]

nah its super ez man, literally grandma proof

[mild dome]

This is a spine made for something that walks upright
Yet for some reason god put it inside a shrew
Some angel must've mixed up the paperwork

[empty wren]

Hmm, looks beefy

[frozen ingot]

windows got nothing on linux self-explanatoryness

[tribal dirge]

It’s just so perfect at making things

[empty wren]

That always looks cool

[tribal dirge]

Indeed

[empty wren]

Just disappointing that is subtractive manufacturing and there is material waste

[tribal dirge]

Well, additive is arguably worse

[frozen ingot]

collect metal scraps and resmelt

[tribal dirge]

You need support material, the parts are generally weaker, and they can generate fumes.

[empty wren]

Fair enough

[final flame]

yea just melt all the shavings

[tribal dirge]

I just send my metal chips to a recycler.

Despite it being covered in coolant.

[empty wren]

[mild dome]

Human eye could also be fixed. Reverse the layers so that the light receptors are ABOVE the blood vessels and Nerves rather then below, eliminating the blind spot. Maybe add some extra light cones.

[tribal dirge]

I’m pretty sure it just burns off as it gets melted down.

Also another thing is that most aluminum stock isn’t pure aluminum, they’re always alloys.

[empty wren]

I feel there has to be some reason man was made this way

Maybe what you say would work but what if it deteriorates at a fraction of a lifetime

[tribal dirge]

I usually get aluminum 6061

And some 7075 stock

[empty wren]

I do have a question, do you flatten that out first or is the top fine as it is?

[tribal dirge]

Almost never have to do that.

Usually the stock is perfectly square and flat.

Give or take 0.001 inches

Of tolerance

[mild dome]

The answer is evolution:
Eyes evolved from a patch of skin.
normal skin ---> Light sensitive patch of skin allowing light/dark discernment ---> Light sensitive pits in skull allowing limited direction discernment ---> Light sensitive patch inside alcove with pinholes in skull allowing limited image discernment ---> Mucus membrane to protect eyes ---> Lens made of clear cells to focus light clearing image

[tribal dirge]

There are rare cases where I would have to do that, like milling a solid object from block stock.

Or facing the top of a material to form to its desired shape.

[mild dome]

See things went wrong at the second step, because evolution isn't a conscious process, but random mutations making use of previous adaptions. It was advantageous for the light sensitive patches to exist well below the skin because it was fragile. However that meant a hole existed in the patch of light sensitive cells to connect the nerves and bring fresh blood to them. It's only later did this become a slight disadvantage in that our vision is slightly less clear and now has a hole our brain has to patch out. Usually it uses the second eye to do this, but if you close one eye you can under specific circumstances see the hole

Some critter however travelled down a different route, to reach the same goals

[empty wren]

I see what you mean now

[astral haven]

uh
dont we have significantly better light gathering capabilities than octopi tho?

[mild dome]

I mean probably since we need to see things at a distance, whilst water will obscure an octipi's vision to a few meters, but cephalopods have this one advantage. Their Retina has a better overall structure, so if I could engineer the human eye, I would use the cephalopod retina structure

[astral haven]

the problem tho is the visual cortex

the visual cortex is the actually difficult part

because human eyes are capable of detecting single photon events

so increasing the efficiency of light gathering is useless

increasing the quantity of light would help but that requires bigger eye

[mild dome]

this does not increase light gather efficiency, this increases image clarity

[pale sigil]

Sigh

NTFS does not play well with proton

[mild dome]

Since light right now hand to pass through blood vessels and nerves you lose clarity.
Fixing this part of the eyes wouldn't be a miracle, but it would be an improvement

[pale sigil]

Ofc it doesn't

[astral haven]

i see what you mean, but is that actually true?

the image a camera takes gets alot less clear if you remove the coatings

[mild dome]

Well it's impossible to say without replacement someone's eyeballs

[astral haven]

for example moire

[mild dome]

What?

[empty wren]

Just use the universal eyeball adapter

[mild dome]

Coatings? Your nerves and blood vessels do not act as a coating

[astral haven]

cameras often have an olpf coating

intentionally distributing the light received between the subpixels within the area of a single pixel

[mild dome]

The human lens does have a UV coating to prevent UV from hitting the eyes

but the retina itself as far as I know has none. Hell you could probably add one to an engineered eye that would be far better then what so many layers of uneven vessels and nerves ad

[astral haven]

now old cameras had significantly less precise olpf, and that you could remove to get better image quality, and some companies are experimenting with using microleses for example

[astral haven]

yea im talking about coatings directly on the sensor

not ones that are on top of the glass shield protecting the sensor or in the lenses of the camera

tho again old olpfs were on top

[mild dome]

My argument is that when engineering the eye, you would want to make sure that the sensors are not behind the power delivery, and signalling circuits. Human photoreceptors act quite different from a camera's

[astral haven]

thats only for cheap cameras relatively speaking

the only cameras we have near the same capabilities of the retina are ccds, and they have the comm wires and data movement between the source and the collector

[mild dome]

Actually I just realized, we could check the fovea. The fovea is the most sensitive region of your eyes, with the greatest clarity. You can see that as a part of that adaption the blood vessels and nerves have sort of cleared out as much as possible to make sure that area gets as clear vision as possible

[astral haven]

the fovea is not the most sensitive region using the technical definition of the term

its higher resolution but lower sensitivity

its quite significantly worse at light gathering in fact

[mild dome]

That's likely due to lack of rods

The Fovea goes all in on cones for superior colour vision and clarity, sacrificing the ability to discern brigthtness contrasts

[astral haven]

thats the other thing, how thick are these neurons compared to the width of the rods?

and an even better question, whats their refractive index?

[mild dome]

They are about the same size

[astral haven]

where are the neurons?

[mild dome]

That gooey stuff under the light detecting cells in the image

[astral haven]

oh also theres another thing, different wavelengths of light pass through different thicknesses of material before interacting with it in a probabilistic manner

[mild dome]

the cones deal with that irc

[astral haven]

but the rods need to absorb all wavelengths

[mild dome]

Yep

Like I am not an expert on biochem, but they use these lil disks to do the job

I presume the disks are stacks to increase the chances that light interacts with em

The shape must be important here, but I believe pigments are also used to capture light

Oh, here's the answer

[astral haven]

This level of exactitude is beyond me
but all i can say is that our best efficiency camera sensor tech has the wiring on top of the gates that catch the photons, and that cmos sensors are not at the level of counting individual photons by a long shot

[mild dome]

Rods are the grey one, you can see they are sensitive to a surprisingly narrow range of light. Might be why red feels the "dimmest" of the three primary colours?

I mean googling that thing about cameras it looks like they put wiring on top because it's easier to manufacture that way

but I know way less about camera sensors then eyeballs

[astral haven]

thats only for cmos

and bsi sensors are available for cmos

but cmos sensors are only able to be so efficient

the most efficient camera sensors we have are ccds

and all ccds need the wiring to actually mostly cover the photoreceptor

[astral haven]

also this is normalized, not absolute light gathering

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/bright.html#c2
holy crap thats quite significant

[mild dome]

This article says that back illuminated CCDs would be better at gathering light, but are hard to make
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/back-illuminated-ccd-improving-light-sensitivity/

Hyperphysics!

[astral haven]

these are comparing different things tho

its quite complicated, but even tho the sensor absorbs more light, because the sensor is more noisy, it actually varies which one produces better data

[mild dome]

Where does the noise come from anyway? Always wondered that, radiation?

[astral haven]

the noise they are talking is thermal noise

which is a type of radiation

[mild dome]

Ah
But the human eye seems to avoid this thermal noise (as far as I know anyway), so it wouldn't have a more noise problem?

[astral haven]

but with ccds, because of how they function, its actually better to have the wiring in the front, on top of the charge carriers

[astral haven]

the eye doesnt avoid it
the brain does

and its not a problem for us because our eyes arent nearly sensitive enough

[mild dome]

Why is the wiring being in front of the charge carriers good for the image? Could I have a source?

[astral haven]

its pretty obvious from how ccds function in general

[mild dome]

I mean part of the problem there seems to be that CCDs are sensitive to infrared

[astral haven]

the way ccds work is they have basically a bucket that stores electrons knocked off of some doped silicon
to read the data from the ccd, you need to move those electrons to the edge of the display, and that is done by shifting them over between the buckets

the closer to the bucket the control wiring is, the faster you can accelerate the electrons around and the less time you have for thermal noise to seep in

[astral haven]

well the other problem is that anything conductive is also generally sensitive to infrared lel

https://www.gatan.com/ccd-vs-cmos

[mild dome]

So having the wiring in front allows for a simpler design with faster simpler circuits that are right next to the photoreceptors.

However this doesn't apply to the human eye as it isn't built like a CCD, nor does it operate like one. The nerves are constantly sending signals to the brain which then have to be filtered out.

[astral haven]

the important part is the actual signal is traveling less distance to get read

cause whenever you are moving electrons around, that introduces noise

[mild dome]

What is the max framerate of a CCD?

[astral haven]

7 trillion lel

practically tho the best off the shelf option is a little over 10 million?

[mild dome]

Now biologically I still think Octipi retinas would be better, as the nerves wouldn't really change in complexity (hell they might be shorter with the improved eyes since they don't need to travel around the whole retina), however for Cyberpunk eyes it does look like the CCD with front wiring would be the best I suppose

[astral haven]

also this was cheated

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ys_yKGNFRQ

10 trillion lel

tldr take an insanely short exposure, then repeat the experiment starting the light collection for the exposure 1/10t of a second later every time, repeat

[vagrant pagoda]

toasty

[wheat plume]

https://youtu.be/HfNNMlAH26A

Hmmm

[halcyon moss]

hmmmmmmmm

[wheat plume]

Hhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[halcyon moss]

HMMHMMMMHMHMHMH

[fair gull]

they should have just made random normal galaxy z fold 4 boxes contain one of these

true gacha mechanics

[old marlin]

they somehow need to implement pity mechanics in that though

[wheat plume]

APPLE

WHY

[old marlin]

Lol

[wheat plume]

They are changing it in iOS 16

[wheat plume]

https://youtu.be/zbrPQsMK2gU

too hard to cancel a subscription

got to phone call them and all that shit

[shadow minnow]

They already changed it

But yeah it wasn’t great

It’s way better now

[wheat plume]

good

Why is the signal strength just a bunch of "!"?

[shadow minnow]

I have two SIM cards, top is for the one I am using data from rn, bottom part is for the other one, and rn I have full signal strength

[tribal dirge]

Hmm? I honestly think it’s better.

[wheat plume]

NO ITS NOT!!!

why does the icon stay full until 19%???!

[tribal dirge]

It doesn’t?

That was with the beta

[wheat plume]

not anymore

xd

Why cant you multiselect on MacOS in the thumbnail view?

you must switch to list view

[shadow minnow]

You can

[fair gull]

totally not possible

[wheat plume]

can you select a range with ctrl?

not scattered like that

[marsh glade]

shift

[wheat plume]

aha

[frozen ingot]

you've been able to since like forever

[vagrant pagoda]

https://youtu.be/LzvF7xZbcaI

1kw on water!

[tribal dirge]

Intel coming back into the server space?

[vagrant pagoda]

That's workstation

[tribal dirge]

Hmm? But don’t they make xenon for that?

[vagrant pagoda]

HEDT is High End DeskTop

[tribal dirge]

[vagrant pagoda]

So think workstations

[tribal dirge]

Bruh these names

[ashen spindle]

both HEDT and servers are xenon chips

[vagrant pagoda]

Intel stopped calling HEDT cpus core series a while back

Why, no one knows

[tribal dirge]

Oh, huh.

[vagrant pagoda]

AMD calls HEDT Threadripper

[ashen spindle]

and it makes sense since hedt are much closer to server chips on both intel and amds side

[tribal dirge]

I have a Threadripper, and their Epyc CPUs.

Epyc is their server CPUs

[ashen spindle]

yeah and threadripper is basically cut down epyc

[vagrant pagoda]

TR pro isnt

It's full fat

[old marlin]

No

[tribal dirge]

No, Threadripper and Epyc are different

[vagrant pagoda]

But yeah Genoa is a big issue for Intel with sapphire rapids.

[old marlin]

Epyc still gets higher core counts

[tribal dirge]

Epyc has more PCIe lanes than Threadripper

And more cache

[vagrant pagoda]

Nope, there just isn't new TR pro

[ashen spindle]

that is why I said its cut down

[old marlin]

That is what cut down means

[tribal dirge]

And Epyc can handle more memory controllers

[ashen spindle]

TR (non pro) is epyc but more limitations

[vagrant pagoda]

The last TR Pro has all the cores, lanes and channels as the Epyc did

[old marlin]

Wasn't tr pro also octa channel

[vagrant pagoda]

Yep

[tribal dirge]

Yes, 8 channel memory

[old marlin]

Although im server space you can do multiple modules per channel

[ashen spindle]

and epyc has dual socket support

[old marlin]

While tr pro afaik only does one

[vagrant pagoda]

TR Pro Genoa would demolish Shappire rapids

[tribal dirge]

Ye

[tribal dirge]

Ohhh for sureeee,

[old marlin]

Depends on workloads

[ashen spindle]

but for the most part both on intel and amd the HEDT options are server chips with a few limitations or lacking validation steps

[vagrant pagoda]

Thar chip in the video is barely beating TR

And TR is still ddr4

[old marlin]

Depends on workloads

[vagrant pagoda]

Ddr4 to 5 in a synthetic bench is a big difference

[tribal dirge]

Doesn’t their zen 4 architecture have ddr5 support?

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean geek bench has a memory test in it

[old marlin]

Yes

[vagrant pagoda]

There is no zen4 tr

[old marlin]

But it depends on the specific workload

[tribal dirge]

There will be,

[ashen spindle]

well that makes sense, since SPR was designed to launch with milan/castle peak xD its just super delayed and amd is on zen4 now

[old marlin]

Which of the two plattforms is better for you

[tribal dirge]

Zen 4 tr and Epyc is inevitable

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean the 64core TR will be faster in some workloads

[ashen spindle]

zen4 epyc is out, zen4 TR is not inevitable

[old marlin]

If you run software that was optimized for intel specifically the new tr gen might still suck for that

[vagrant pagoda]

People are still buying zen3 tr

And AMD has no issues selling last gen today

[ashen spindle]

the biggest optimization would likely be avx512 which zen4 will do better than intel can currently

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean they recently stopped making Ryzen 2000 XD

[old marlin]

Doesn't intel have a new avx like thing

[ashen spindle]

amx

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean other than Genoa having a 96 core part XD

56 vs 64 is doable with high ipc

[ashen spindle]

yes for AMX specific software intel is likely better, but that only if there is no other bottleneck anywhere really

[vagrant pagoda]

But 56 vs 96 is going to be impossible for multithreaded

You seen what Genoa dose to cinabench?

You can't even see the damn thing render

[ashen spindle]

intel is mostly still benefitting from customer inertia to not change

[old marlin]

Cinebench is not the real world though

[ashen spindle]

but its easier to visualize than some random number in fluid dynamics

[vagrant pagoda]

Any bench

That is multithreaded

Flys

[tribal dirge]

Unless you’re like me and do cad product renders every now and then for documentation and presentation.

[vagrant pagoda]

The 96 core has a 50%+ lead on the 64 core milian

[old marlin]

Until you use a different featureset that isn't represented in cinebench but you still wanna use in whatever render software you end up using

[vagrant pagoda]

Intel need to overclock SR to beat a 64 core milian

So overcoming a almost 2x core deficit would be magical

[ashen spindle]

yes cinebench does not show every use case but in this case any other comparison is still similar aside from few exception, CB is no the exception here

[tribal dirge]

Raytraced renders take so longggg

[tribal dirge]

Video renders are worse

[uncut slate]

From everything I've ever seen, there's no good mice on the market. There's now a good keyboard, but there's still no good mouse. They're all destined to break, and most aren't even programmable. I try looking for something with optical switches, to finally solve the double-clicking issue, and the apparent planned obsolescence, but it's only applied to the two main buttons, meaning that the side buttons will still break, which makes the optical switches pretty much useless for that purpose. And let's say maybe there's a mouse out there that has even that (never seen it, but maybe), the encoder is probably still destined to fail, the mouse cable is probably terrible, and it's probably not programmable, or you may even be tied to some terrible software just to use your mouse. I so wish Wooting would solve mice just as they solved keyboards.

[mossy plinth]

Swiftpoint Z exists

[uncut slate]

Is it fully optical? Like, all switches are optical?

[empty wren]

No

And it is not wireless either

[uncut slate]

Alright, then I don't care about it. I don't mind it not being wireless though.

If I'm paying over $100 and it's still just going to break on me soon, no way.

[mossy plinth]

Just don’t break it

Sorry I should have added sarcasm to that

[uncut slate]

Double-clicking is a matter of material touching material, causing the material to break down over time.

[frozen ingot]

wooting switches are hall effect

[uncut slate]

It needs a new paradigm

[empty wren]

Just so you know chubkatuff double clicking on many Logitech mice is due to using omron switches that are not speced for mice

Some companies go to Japanese omrons instead or use huano/kalih

[uncut slate]

I've had double-clicking even on the Ducky Secret. It's happened every time on every mouse.

And the encoder also goes easily

[empty wren]

Well you are not wrong that is inevitable

[frozen ingot]

what mice uses contactless switches

[empty wren]

Razer and roccat

[mossy plinth]

Use a pen instead, or bind key switches to mouse click

[frozen ingot]

huh

[uncut slate]

Well, that would be optical switches. Hall effect is another option, but I've never seen anyone do it.

[empty wren]

Probably because it would be significantly expensive

[frozen ingot]

be kinda nice not having to worry about wonky mouse switches, guessing optical draws more power though

[empty wren]

Just for some context a Lekker switch pack is $10 meaning each switch is $1 a piece

While many typical keyboard switches are quite inexpensive being under a dollar

[uncut slate]

I'd pay premium for a mouse that finally gets it right, just like I paid premium for the Wooting Two HE.

[ashen spindle]

errr thats not the actual price for a switch since that also includes packaging and logistics + other overhead

[empty wren]

I mean you are not wrong

[frozen ingot]

if they could pull it off while maintaining decent weight and battery life figures I'd be sold

[empty wren]

So long as they skip any idea of analog probably possible for good battery

[mossy plinth]

Got my Lekker switches on the way, I'll be making a custom macro pad. Maybe I'll toy with making a mouse from them

[uncut slate]

Logitech has this mousepad that just continually charges their wireless mice as you use it. That seems pretty decent. On the other hand, why not have a cable that you can connect or disconnect, like the Wooting KB has?

[empty wren]

Only on their mat

[mossy plinth]

additional weight and things to go wrong

[frozen ingot]

I don't really need a charging mat, I can put up with connecting the cable for a few hrs once a week or so

preferably not more frequently than that though

[uncut slate]

I get the additional weight thing. Personally, I'd just use a wired mouse, but if I ever wanted wireless, the capability is nice, and I doubt it'd strictly require a huge amount of added weight.

I mean, I suppose it matters what weight range you're thinking of

[astral haven]

eventually wireless mice will (be able to) weigh in under 10 grams

[mossy plinth]

wireless is at the point where it's easy to add but you still need to factor in so many things
i.e BMS (Battery management System), Access to the battery, Charging port, What battery to use, Shipping Batteries.

[frozen ingot]

I'm not that obsessed with maximum lightness but preferably under 90g

[astral haven]

the g305 is often on sale for ultra cheap and while its not great stock, with a lithium aa battery it has excellent weight distribution

[frozen ingot]

and a weeks worth of charge at the very least

[astral haven]

month but sure

[uncut slate]

If you just changed the entire paradigm of how mice work, you could get them way lighter right now. Put all of the technology in the mouse pad, and the mouse itself can be very light, and pretty much any form factor.

[astral haven]

yup

i already have a pointing device where the part you move is under 20 grams

and if you remove the weight in it its under 10

[vagrant pagoda]

So EK just released a sp4 block, wonder if EK knows zen4 tr is coming xd

[uncut slate]

Like, what if you made a mouse that was more technologically similar to a tablet? The mouse wouldn't even need to have power.

[astral haven]

exactly!

[ashen spindle]

zen4 tr is not even coming this year probably

[astral haven]

and also the acceleration limit of the mouse would be insanely high

[vagrant pagoda]

Who knows

[uncut slate]

Interesting consideration. Didn't think of that part of it all.

[frozen ingot]

the gpw has kinda set the benchmark for whatever mouse I eventually replace it with, needs to at least match its weight/battery and preferably improve on it

[crimson wigeon]

nani

[astral haven]

amd will make zen 4 tr depending on how successful w790 is

[ashen spindle]

and last roadmap it was already 2H 2023

[vagrant pagoda]

I think they are just waiting on pricing

[astral haven]

what

no chance

[vagrant pagoda]

To see how well sr performs

[astral haven]

the pricing is already out there, the question is how many people buy

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean AMD

[astral haven]

nope

they dont have the skus or the motherboards ready

they havent even really developed them yet

[astral haven]

they will develop them if they need them depending on

[ashen spindle]

it would also need ddr5 so costs are higher as well compared to zen3 TR so if that is still basically on par, they will just sell more epycs and not care about HEDT

[astral haven]

depends on how successful intel is

[ashen spindle]

and from the original TR team almost none are still at AMD so there is also no hobbyist push to get it out faster

[astral haven]

they might very well just copy intel and just make their partners make some workstation motherboards for epyc lel

[vagrant pagoda]

Those exist

Lol

[astral haven]

not really no

[vagrant pagoda]

Tyan makes a workstation board

[astral haven]

only epyc 7000 counts, and they do not make a workstation board for it

only a server board in a desktop style case

[vagrant pagoda]

Tyan showed a sp5 with audio

It's not on the site

[astral haven]

😉

proof of that is that its not out yet lel

https://youtu.be/LzvF7xZbcaI?t=659
XMP Rdimms!!!

[ashen spindle]

saw that, I wonder what the price is for these lol

[vagrant pagoda]

Or if there will be more than one manufacturer/kit

They are only 16gb sticks though

But with 8 channel that's all you need

[astral haven]

we will have to wait and see, but intel seems very determined here, so at least corsair and gskill will be doing stuff

[vagrant pagoda]

Hopefully it's open standard

[astral haven]

lol its xmp

[uncut slate]

$6000 is a little steep. I'll probably just buy a $189 8 core for now.

[astral haven]

the point is the pcie lanes

for under a grand you get 64 gen 5 pcie lanes

[uncut slate]

Well sure, I'm just referring to the one in the thumbnail that says 56 cores for $6000.

[astral haven]

ye its definetly not a gaming cpu lel

but the 20 core should be an absolute monster

[uncut slate]

I've seen this lineup though. I get that the other stuff is a bit more of the point for HEDT.

[astral haven]

$360 for the cpu for 4 channel and 64 gen 5

[vagrant pagoda]

The non X are oem only

[astral haven]

[citation needed]

[ashen spindle]

oh yeah that is true too

[vagrant pagoda]

It's in Romans video lol

[uncut slate]

Heard it through the grapevine

[astral haven]

i didnt hear that? timestamp?

[vagrant pagoda]

Only unlocked chips are boxed

[astral haven]

ah

thats unfortunate

[vagrant pagoda]

Intel dose that alot

Like the high clock, low core count xeons

[astral haven]

doesnt affect me since i wont buy a cpu that isnt overclockable

but its still unfortunate

[vagrant pagoda]

There's no reason for it to be locked too though

It's just so they can say the platform starts at some low ass price

[astral haven]

i mean thats not related to the overclocking

[vagrant pagoda]

The low core count high clock xeons are so they can advertise higher single threaded performance on the socket

[astral haven]

thats verifiably untrue lmao

[vagrant pagoda]

Remember Sandy bridge where they stuck mainstream cpus in HEDT just to advertise

[astral haven]

and kaby lake x

i want a 2475x

but we shall see what sort of ram is available...

definetly wont buy unless i can get 32gb xmp sticks, a board, and most importantly a great cpu block

[ashen spindle]

maybe TR zen4 is delayed till you can get 32gb xmp rdimms lel

[astral haven]

maybe

i really dont want to increase my idle power draw tho...

[ashen spindle]

see now here is the funny part

[astral haven]

and my experience on am4 has only been pain

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean that was oced

So they likely disabled speedstep and all thst

[astral haven]

package power is lies tho

gimme wall power

[vagrant pagoda]

This

[ashen spindle]

fair

[vagrant pagoda]

Who uses software power draw smh

Package power is as much of a lie as tdp XD

[astral haven]

actually tdp is generally closer on intel

[ashen spindle]

feel like 47 vs 142 is even with software inaccuracy not that far off xD

[vagrant pagoda]

Still lies

[astral haven]

the problem is soc

amds soc is awful

intel doesnt have an soc, they have a chipset

[ashen spindle]

other point, what if TR works with UDIMMs

[astral haven]

9900k at 20 watt package had total system draw of about 90w

5950x at "15w" package has total system draw of around 130

[astral haven]

actually a disadvantage

in 5 years or so, 96gb or 128gb rdimms are gonna be relatively cheap, and there wont be any udimms of that capacity on ddr5 most likely

obv depends on the price of the rdimms now, but we shall see

[ashen spindle]

hmm can you make a board work with either R or U or does it have to be only one

[astral haven]

only 1

[ashen spindle]

ah nvm then

[astral haven]

u = 5v r = 12v

[ashen spindle]

well idk if you can route it so either would work

[astral haven]

all of the pins are identical

the only difference is the location of the notch

[ashen spindle]

ah didnt know the notch was different

[astral haven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG5ontMa8kw

thanks sth

[ashen spindle]

ahh good to know

[astral haven]

i wonder tho if you could use a sort of laser beam that looks through to see what voltage to use?

that would be a huge pain to engineer lel

[ashen spindle]

was more thinking maybe the resistance of a pin could be used

[astral haven]

no dice

[vagrant pagoda]

Wut?

Oh you mean look at the notch?

[ashen spindle]

or a bios option to toggle it on own risk but 5v on default to not fry the the 5v sticks?

[astral haven]

so you have two lasers
one aligned with each notch

[vagrant pagoda]

Why not ir

[astral haven]

passing through all the dimms

[vagrant pagoda]

Or even better a mech switch

Just have the notch slide

[astral haven]

a microswitch would be rather large

[vagrant pagoda]

And connect pins on the mobo

[astral haven]

and the area the switch would need to be is highly valuable board area

[vagrant pagoda]

Just have the notch on rails inbthe socket with tiny spring contact onto pads on the mobo

[astral haven]

you could have an ir laser if you want, and you would only need 1 per set of dimms

[vagrant pagoda]

Mobo won't start if they aren't all the same

[astral haven]

thats the point

dimms are now on a common bus

[vagrant pagoda]

Until a bit of dust gets under the dimms and it won't start xd

[astral haven]

compressed air

[vagrant pagoda]

Yeah by diagnosis

[astral haven]

also a laser would probably power through minor dust

[vagrant pagoda]

Takes time

I mean there are already low frequency signals going to the dimms

Wants 2 more pins

[astral haven]

per dimm

[vagrant pagoda]

Yeah

Per swtiches

You could mech interlock all the slots

[astral haven]

where you could have a single laser pair for all 4 dimms on a side

look fam its tiiiny

a mechanical system would be unpleasant to engineer in that size

[vagrant pagoda]

Also there isn't a reason

I doubt the imc on the xeons will run udimm

[astral haven]

its quite likely it would?

[vagrant pagoda]

You think Intel dosent lock that out?

[astral haven]

the data lines are identical the only difference is the control

[astral haven]

intel didnt lock out ddr3 on broadwell xeons lel

[vagrant pagoda]

Fair

Idk if anyone would do it

Also want speeds will the imc even do?

[astral haven]

asus says 6800

[vagrant pagoda]

And there will be rdimms that fast

Only reason for all the expense to run udimms

Is more speed

[astral haven]

except rdimms and udimms are identical data transfer physically

[ashen spindle]

intel doesnt make money from locking it and they can say it starts cheaper as a deal so dont see why they would lock it, if it would come to that

[vagrant pagoda]

Udimms clock faster

[astral haven]

not on ddr5

[vagrant pagoda]

So me 10000 mt rdimms?

[astral haven]

theres no reason they cant exist 🤷

again theres no buffering of data

[vagrant pagoda]

There won't be if the imc dosent go to 10k

That's what I'm saying

[astral haven]

🤷 its the same imc probably

[vagrant pagoda]

It matters what Intel has set as the max speed in the imc

And if you can make any speed rdimms

Why run udimms

[ashen spindle]

$

[astral haven]

you do need a register chip

cause while the data transfer itself is identical, the control signals go through the register

[vagrant pagoda]

No one running z790 is going to care about ram cost lol

[astral haven]

i mean if the platform is affordable enough, some people will

[vagrant pagoda]

You know how expensive the boards will be?

They all have dual 10g

Lmao

Plus getting all the gen 5 to all the slots

[astral haven]

its all intel

and they arent using that many switches

[vagrant pagoda]

The retimers alone

[astral haven]

what retimers

[ashen spindle]

goes hand in hand though, if they could offer cheaper entry they also have an incentive to make cheaper boards to increase the TAM

[astral haven]

^

[vagrant pagoda]

Who needs HEDT cheap and new

If you need ddr5 and pcie 5

You aren't running a cheap setup

[ashen spindle]

I mean HEDT is already not a big market thats why amd is having TR just if they can afford to leave some epycs for the plebs

[astral haven]

if you want 2 x16 gen at least gen 4 slots, and you want high end gaming performance, theres zero options right now

[ashen spindle]

so might as well make the TAM bigger

[astral haven]

now if you also want it to be overclockable? hah

[vagrant pagoda]

I mean what needs dual x16 gen 4 even

That's already putting you out of cheap area

[astral haven]

1 modern gpu, and 1 modern network card

or 4 modern ssds

its not cheap cheap, but its not expensive

[vagrant pagoda]

What modern network card for a desktop needs x16

[astral haven]

100gbe

[vagrant pagoda]

You need 4 SSDs at bandwidth at the same time?

And even 40g cards are x8

[astral haven]

40g is under half the speed of 100g lel

100g is only about 1 pcie gen 4 ssd