🔌│tech

[pale sigil]

And it irritates me people seem to value spending loads on not having a meta login.

[tropic nacelle]

I'm sure it's improved now software wisebut it was too much of a compromise with those god rays as that was one of the reasons to upgrade from the rift at the time

Spending 1k for a glorified beta tester and it wasn't that much better overall, in my opinion.

[pale sigil]

Before it was 300 quid vs 800 quid... similar experience.

One has a meta login, one doesn't.

[astral haven]

well the whole being able to move your hands behind your back is useful

[pale sigil]

Well yes but like

[astral haven]

as are the better controllers

[pale sigil]

300 vs 800

lol

[crisp granite]

especially when DNS blocking exists

[pale sigil]

or 1000 if you want nuckle things

[astral haven]

as is the higher refresh

[pale sigil]

quest 2 has 120hz

[astral haven]

the knuckles are quite worth it...

[tropic nacelle]

Had both an AMD and NVIDIA rig at the time both same issues sadly.

[astral haven]

q2 was like a whole 2 years later, and the index is 144hz, brighter, and with lower persistence

[pale sigil]

Did this go down in price?

[astral haven]

usd price has never changed

[tropic nacelle]

I rounded up in my head my bad, was £900 something

[pale sigil]

Oh rigth ye controller no sensors

I just think its abysmal pricing

Especially compared to a Quest 1

Back then

Quest 1 had OLED etc

[astral haven]

q1 had trouble over 72hz lmao

[tropic nacelle]

Yeah this is the thing on paper I thought it would be great and then couldn't believe the end result. The rift s was legitimately 80 - 90% in terms of quality and performance for so little

[astral haven]

it got 90hz about when the q2 released

[pale sigil]

idk man

I prefer OLED over LCD lol

[astral haven]

that is the one ive never tried, so cant comment

[astral haven]

oled smears hardcore

[pale sigil]

Point is 900 quid for LCD 144hz

[astral haven]

and theres no way around it

[pale sigil]

Noice

[tropic nacelle]

The comparison at the time was index Vs rift s not quest 1.

The IPD adjustment
Headphones
Higher refresh rate
Improved tracking

Are the main pros from rift s.

[pale sigil]

Ok to be specific.... 460

[astral haven]

and for the same tracking experience as the q1 you can use 1 base station

you only need 2 for behind the back tracking

[pale sigil]

For a single headset with LCD, no IPD.

Yes but its 919 quid dude

[astral haven]

no

[pale sigil]

Like wtf

You dont get base stations unless you buy max bundle

or seperate

which the sensors are 140 quid....

[astral haven]

again for the same tracking as a q2, you only need 1 base station

[tropic nacelle]

I expected a big gap and missed the 144hz but it was acceptable to the 90hz or whatever I couldnt justify paying over double for it when there were more godrays on the important parts.

The tracking of rift s on launch was bad but by the index launch the update out significantly improved it so there were no real problems for me and I wasn't missing anything from the index.

In isolation if I didn't pick up the rift s in comparison I wouldn't have known they were so close

[pale sigil]

still 600 quid

[astral haven]

yep

[pale sigil]

Now ill admit they are close, but Quest 2 for years was 300 quid

and quest 1 was similar....

[astral haven]

add on nice headphones and some accessories to fix the strap of the q2

[pale sigil]

wait

im wrong

hahaha

[astral haven]

then a cable

[pale sigil]

828 quid

for headset, controller sand 1 sensor

vs 300/400

[astral haven]

thats about the same price as long as you get wands instead of knuckles

[pale sigil]

.....

COME ON

[tropic nacelle]

For the quest 2 yeah it's no comparison it's better screen, lenses and works on its own.

It's why valve really should have released an index 2 with at least an upgraded screen and lenses

[pale sigil]

can you even buy wands?

[astral haven]

ye but it hurts to wear for more than an hour

[astral haven]

ye but from htc not valve

[pale sigil]

ok

so

Still 717.99

lol

Like come on man

It just doesn't MAKE SENSE

[tropic nacelle]

I have no comfort issues with my quest 2, using bobo headstrap it works well. I definitely get the issue with the stock strap but it's £20

[astral haven]

and the audio

[pale sigil]

Audio?

[astral haven]

getting audio as good as the index is not cheap

[pale sigil]

THis price is just wand + headset +1 tracker

[astral haven]

yes

[pale sigil]

Are you kidding me?

The audio is fantastic on the Quest 2

[astral haven]

and the index includes nice earspeakers

[tropic nacelle]

Already had headphones to use so it was ok for me. The audio isn't amazing on the quest but it's definitely serviceable

[pale sigil]

Im a bloody audio creep but jesus

lol

[astral haven]

you must be joking

[pale sigil]

No, its pretty damn good.

[astral haven]

you mean when using earbuds or something right?

[pale sigil]

No.

Have you tried Quest 2 audio?

[astral haven]

yes

[pale sigil]

Strange, i still use it over my k612 pros and now HD6XXs

[astral haven]

🤨

[tropic nacelle]

Its not bad I'd say but I prefer headphones.

When SIM racing if I get too hot or need to be listening out for the door I'll use the built in audio no problem

[astral haven]

it has the impact of a baby with a pool noodle

[pale sigil]

haha

Well, either way

[tropic nacelle]

Pool noodles hurt

[pale sigil]

STILL 300 VS 720

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[astral haven]

add 100 for some headphones

[vagrant pagoda]

you cant compare the tracking

[astral haven]

another 50 for strap

[vagrant pagoda]

at all

[astral haven]

and 70 for a cable of equivalent length

[pale sigil]

50 for a strap o,0

[vagrant pagoda]

audio isnt even the thing to compare for the two lol

[pale sigil]

o.0 15 quid anker

[tropic nacelle]

Oh its not a value argument, index loses hard.

You can get koss headphones that clip on which are the same as the cv1 so very decent for £15

[pale sigil]

approved by oculus same length

[pale sigil]

^

[astral haven]

not as good as the index

[tropic nacelle]

Yeah but not £300+ worth by a mile

[astral haven]

sure

[pale sigil]

Its still significantly cheaper regardless lol, if i get an index i do not want a wand

[astral haven]

but you are paying for a pile of features

[pale sigil]

and if im trying to save money i shouldn't get an index

lol

[astral haven]

sure

[pale sigil]

Your argument is just stupid

[astral haven]

but the point is there is in fact more that you get

[pale sigil]

Buying a Wand for the Index

[vagrant pagoda]

vive/index tracking is leagues beyond the quest.

[tropic nacelle]

As the screen is worse, you can do 120hz on quest 2 now with a higher density screen and better lenses.

It was a hard sell but you could reason it at the time of launch but now it's long in the tooth that it doesn't compare really

[pale sigil]

But you literally dont, the biggest factor for the Index is purely tracking.

[astral haven]

🤷 you wanted to compare like for like

[vagrant pagoda]

the quest is good enough

[pale sigil]

But again

Its not worth hundreds more imo

[vagrant pagoda]

the vive/index is perfect when it isnt occulded

[pale sigil]

I wont pay 500+ more for tracking

[astral haven]

its lower density or lower fov

index lets you choose

[vagrant pagoda]

you would if youre like me and get motion sick

[astral haven]

this too

[vagrant pagoda]

i have a vive and index

and thus have 4 lighthouses

[pale sigil]

I dont think you are getting the point.

[vagrant pagoda]

and the tracking is amazing

[tropic nacelle]

I mean the pixel density on the quest 2 is higher than the index, smaller or larger fov setting.

[pale sigil]

The difference in price is just not there

[vagrant pagoda]

plus my vive controllers work as trackers

[astral haven]

🤷 you get what you pay for

[pale sigil]

We are coming from a new person type of argument

[astral haven]

no its not

[vagrant pagoda]

not effectivly if you are playing via pc

[pale sigil]

If you have two trackers from vive and wand then ye... more reasonable

[vagrant pagoda]

the quest looses some quailty over usb

[astral haven]

the resolution difference is less than 1%

[pale sigil]

Wot

[vagrant pagoda]

wand?

[astral haven]

yea if you are moving fast you can see compression artifacts

[pale sigil]

I think you are like

[astral haven]

its unfair to compare knuckles to touch

[pale sigil]

Being so so so so like.

Bringing up issues most people wont notice

[tropic nacelle]

How do you come to that conclusion? The resolution per eye is higher on quest 2 and a smaller fov, pixel density is higher than the index.

[vagrant pagoda]

yeah it isnt native displayort over usb

[astral haven]

its sub 1% higher

[vagrant pagoda]

index is uncompressed video

[astral haven]

the index has lower density when the fov is higher

[pale sigil]

idk, 300 quid for pretty damn good vr vs 919 quid...

[astral haven]

and the index has higher density when the fov is lower

[pale sigil]

that hasn't been a huge increase since vive other than contollers.

[astral haven]

yes 300 quid is good
but the 919 quid is also good

[pale sigil]

I wouldn't bother which is why i skipped it

[astral haven]

and you are getting what you pay for

[vagrant pagoda]

if you want it as a novilty its fine to get a quest

[pale sigil]

Valve purists lol

[vagrant pagoda]

the index/vive is something valve has commited to for a while

which means upgrades

all the vive and index stuff is compatible out of the box

[astral haven]

i challenge you to use a quest as a monitor for more than 6 hours

[pale sigil]

One why would i? two i did a little when i was in bigscreen for a few hours.

[astral haven]

the index i will admit does definetly need some adjustment and time to set it correctly, but once its set up, you can use it for 8 hours straight

[pale sigil]

But again, whyyyyyyyyyy would i.

[vagrant pagoda]

quest 1 controllers dont even work with the 2

[tropic nacelle]

More than 6 hours? I don't even use my main one for 6 straight, I take a break haha

[pale sigil]

Who the fuck wants to use a VR headset as a monitor.

Go home Mark.

[vagrant pagoda]

and same with 2 controllers on a quest 1

[marsh glade]

What?

Oh Zuck

[pale sigil]

I wont deny the controllers could be better on the Quest 2 tho.

[astral haven]

why buy an extra monitor?

[vagrant pagoda]

where you can conbine any number of index and vive controllers and lighthouses

[pale sigil]

I just dont feel you get what you pay for with Index... only the tracking which didn't really update holds its value imo.

[pale sigil]

This is just, mind boggling.

[astral haven]

i dont have space for a tv

[vagrant pagoda]

way way better tracking

and upgradability

[ashen spindle]

well the index is almost 4 years years ols so ofc now the value seems lower for the price

[pale sigil]

I mean tbf the tracking itself was its own product

if we talk about the headset itself

[vagrant pagoda]

i mean

[ashen spindle]

quest 2 is heavily subsidized also

[vagrant pagoda]

valve made all the tech

[pale sigil]

Yes i know.

[astral haven]

to be fair its only really a problem for competitive gaming

[vagrant pagoda]

its a package

[vagrant pagoda]

yeah but i notice it

i ahve a quest

for when people come over

[pale sigil]

Ill admit this one..

[vagrant pagoda]

and i dont trust them with index lol

[pale sigil]

Quest 2 tracking in beat saber can be a pita.

[ashen spindle]

I just wish I could play beat saber on the quest 2 without having issues lol

[tropic nacelle]

I still dispute your claim of pixel density being higher on index.

It's not possible?
1440x1600 per eye resolution
Vs
1720×1890 per eye on quest 2?
In a slightly smaller fov so the density is always higher?

[ashen spindle]

I wish the sound on my Rift wasn't broken so I could just continue to use that

[pale sigil]

But anyway, the tracking is a product of a previous headset, im talking purely about the headset here mostly.

Even that on its own is quite pricy.

or well

controllers + headset

Since the headset without anything is 460

[vagrant pagoda]

also i have a index and a vive pro 2

[pale sigil]

Damn son

[vagrant pagoda]

and i really really wish vavle would do wireless

[astral haven]

the index allows you to change fov...

[pale sigil]

Quest Link is great... quite demanding and not flawless ofc

[astral haven]

you can go from like 80 to over 120

[pale sigil]

i thought index was software fov?

[astral haven]

how could fov be software?

its a function of how close the lenses are to your eyes

[pale sigil]

Idk but Windows headsets did a similar thing.

[astral haven]

knob on the right adjusts

[vagrant pagoda]

servo

[pale sigil]

wait sorry

Ignore me.

[tropic nacelle]

The fov does not change the pixel density as the panels are still rendering the same you just a closing off part of the panel?
The lowest fov setting is still a bit more than the quest 2

[astral haven]

you are thinking of ipd ye

[pale sigil]

Thought of IPD

ye haha

[astral haven]

yea and crash the lenses into someones eyeballs good idea

or glasses

[pale sigil]

Either way, only way i would get an index is if it was cheaper... because i wanted one, its just to much of an investment when you dont have any previous trackers etc

[astral haven]

yep

all valid points

but it is hard to debate that the index is a more refined experience

[pale sigil]

And yes Quin you are right, price is lower because they can.

[astral haven]

and the index also has the advantage of not being ad supported

[pale sigil]

But at the same time i ask myself.

Why do i care, one is insanely cheaper than the other and pretty close experience so why bother.

Quest 2 still isnt ad supported tho

[astral haven]

and by ad im also including the user data grabbing

[astral haven]

yes it is

[pale sigil]

Valve totally dont collect data?.....

[tropic nacelle]

Ad supported??? What?

[astral haven]

valve doesnt collect pictures of your room
and you have the option to not send crash reports

[pale sigil]

Facebook go brrrrrrrr

Basically.

[pale sigil]

What

[ashen spindle]

because that shows why a difference of lets say 500€ wouldn't get you a difference of 500€ worth of stuff

[astral haven]

should not have said ad supported
how about um
user data sale supported

[ashen spindle]

for buying it it wont matter but it matters to see why the difference could be big

[pale sigil]

You dont get 500 worth of difference and i was saying pounds.

Meta account isn't tied to Facebook profiles.

[tropic nacelle]

Device processes images, not Facebook.
That's not the valid point to make, there are plenty of other things but that isn't

[pale sigil]

I hate this argument so much.

It had merit before.

[ashen spindle]

yes I said you dont get that ammount of difference, that was my point...

[astral haven]

you receive about 300 worth of hardware differences
the question is if the user data collection is enough to tip the balance for you...

the answer for you is obviously no

[pale sigil]

Again.

[tropic nacelle]

Index is old and price hasn't changed, valve don't have economies of scale so charge a high price for low volume product.

Price has stayed the same but tech moved on, it has good pros still but is far worse value these days and it wasn't good value before it was just top of the line at all cost.

[pale sigil]

The data they collect is not on the same scale as say Facebook

[ashen spindle]

are you sure?

[pale sigil]

Im pretty sure, especially since i dont post my life on there.

[tropic nacelle]

What if I told you that you don't need a Facebook account to use the quest 2? 🙂

[pale sigil]

Every single company collects data.

[astral haven]

the relative value prop of the index has technically improved since the release of the q2

[pale sigil]

Especially Valve.

[tropic nacelle]

How?

[astral haven]

yes but valve prompts you before it happens lel

[astral haven]

the quest 2 increased in price and the index did not lmao

[pale sigil]

"Raw images are processed only on the headset and not sent to Meta or third parties"
"All the sensors on the headset (including cameras and microphones) are disabled when your headset enters sleep mode"

https://tenor.com/view/oakdice-runescape-gif-18004007

[astral haven]

yes
and they follow that exactly

[pale sigil]

"Valve may share anonymous data, aggregated or not, with third parties."

[astral haven]

yep

the difference is that valve prompts you

[tropic nacelle]

Oh I see the quest 2 increased by $100 and doubled it storage so it wasn't that big of a hike.

You also ignore the big factor, quest runs without a pc and surprisingly well.

[pale sigil]

"Valve does not sell Personal Data. However, we may share or provide access to each of the categories of Personal Data we collect as necessary for the following business purposes."

[astral haven]

yep but facebook does sell personal data lel

[tropic nacelle]

As the index released before quest 2 I don't think you can say it's value went up as the quest 2 launch really did kill the value aspect

[pale sigil]

They share data with Google Analytics because well coockies etc, they share between their own parties and partners.

Only thing they dont do is "sell" it

[astral haven]

i said since the release,,,

[pale sigil]

But they still share and give access to it.

[astral haven]

yes but that you do in fact have to confirm before it gets sent

[pale sigil]

I think people are just to tinfoil.

[astral haven]

and it is possible to first party disable it

[tropic nacelle]

Yeah since the release of q2 but that's not true, the quest 2 launched and gave a standalone device that is significantly cheaper?

[pale sigil]

And thats me saying that lol

[astral haven]

ah but its not capable of playing hla standalone

[pale sigil]

Trying to find it but i remember seeing something about the data being completely separated and not sold

[tropic nacelle]

😮‍💨

[astral haven]

and its a signficantly worse experience in every other game standalone

[pale sigil]

And a lot of its opt in now

[tropic nacelle]

Aww I wanted facepalm but that didn't exist xD

[pale sigil]

Especially on initial setup

[astral haven]

🤦

[pale sigil]

Im not denying there is data tracking, i think you're just going to tinfoil.

And that its no where near as bad as what they do on Facebook/Insta etdc

[astral haven]

prove it

😛

[pale sigil]

No point trying.

[crisp granite]

only a quitter would say that

[astral haven]

it was a rhetorical question...

[tropic nacelle]

I mean you can't say it doesn't play HLA standalone so it's not a value when it has PCVR wireless /wired AND standalone.

It's a valid value component. I can play beatsabre where I want without a fixed room or walking dead

[crisp granite]

put your money where your mouth is

numbnuts

[pale sigil]

I have no trust in meta, i just think its exaggerated with the VR aspect.

And its also why i waited for Meta account launches as i used Oculus Legacy account lol

[tropic nacelle]

You can't prove a negative.

Prove valve isn't selling your data?

[astral haven]

because they dont have it

[tropic nacelle]

You can't, you can say they claim they dont

[astral haven]

i can prove they dont have it

[pale sigil]

Yes they do.

[astral haven]

because they dont receive it

because my computer doesnt send it

[pale sigil]

They do personalised ads on their own platform.

[pale sigil]

[astral haven]

that is the steam store itself

[pale sigil]

Oh my lawd.

[astral haven]

you are not required to use the steam store on the headset

[pale sigil]

Im done.

LOL

[tropic nacelle]

Which is part of the steam client?

[pale sigil]

No.

Kinda

Its just a browser.

[astral haven]

its a website

valve only collects logs about your use of the headset when you send them
eg crash reports

[tropic nacelle]

But if you give that to them how do you prove they didn't sell it?

[pale sigil]

Doesn;t the steam client literally collect device data

[astral haven]

there wouldnt be a way

[tropic nacelle]

Exactly

[astral haven]

again you are prompted

[pale sigil]

Not on about the survey

btw

[tropic nacelle]

That's the point

[pale sigil]

Not the survey

[astral haven]

but they cant sell what they dont have

[pale sigil]

Survey is prompted to update data they have already.

or when it detects a change in hardware

[astral haven]

ye they do fingerprint your device on login

[tropic nacelle]

So what does meta have?

[pale sigil]

So collecting data

noice

[tropic nacelle]

You use the store... This is the same as you using the steam store

[astral haven]

yep

[astral haven]

never disputed that they collect some data

[pale sigil]

You did

[astral haven]

what I disputed was that they collected user data

aka information about what you are doing

[tropic nacelle]

Oh dear

[pale sigil]

You said only the store does or well the website

irrc

lol

[astral haven]

yep correct

[pale sigil]

But the steam client collects hardware data

[tropic nacelle]

I'm not being this pedantic, its just not worth it.

[astral haven]

if you log into the store yes

[pale sigil]

Same

I think im done xD

[tropic nacelle]

Enjoy what you enjoy

[astral haven]

like theres a big difference between knowing what computer a person is using and actually recording the physical movements of the user

if @pale sigil and @tropic nacelle both look through my messages, youll notice i never actually said what people should buy
i just explained that there is in fact a difference, and that difference does in fact cost money...

people should make an informed decision, and i will admit that for most people, the more logical decision is the q2

[tropic nacelle]

The cameras? Or the IMU? Yeah I mean your point was ad supported on the quest which is not true (you added user data as well), like I say it had pros but the value aspect has declined with age as the price hasn't moved and better headsets are out (not better in all aspects)

[astral haven]

no thats raw data

they record estimated pos

[tropic nacelle]

But they don't send it as it's processed on the device, locally. As they stated many times over the years now

There is no ad supporting on quest 2, it is subsidised and being sold at cost no doubt but there aren't ads

[astral haven]

again
they process the data first
before sending it
facebook is always rather careful about wording

[pale sigil]

They also specified its deleted after processing and that data is not sent...

[astral haven]

they literally have a patent about using body movement data to target advertising

[astral haven]

yep
the original unprocessed data

again its wording
read carefully

they just dont specify because people assume

[pale sigil]

i think you are grasping straws

i think thats the saying?]

[astral haven]

🤷 they have many many many horrifically dystopian patents

[tropic nacelle]

They use the video, process on the machine to gain position from this and then send that on.

How is that bad? They aren't sending the photo or anything

[crisp granite]

I'll grasp your windstraws

give em a squeeze

[pale sigil]

loads of people do

and most aren't executed till they are

Soooo, till then you are tinfoil mode.

[tropic nacelle]

The video and images are deleted, you need position data.

Having a patent about advertising doesn't mean you do advertising ....

A patent has no bearing on what's on a device.....

[astral haven]

They send post render captures
Many captures of your screens would include pictures of your room
Qed

[pale sigil]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/patent-which-pushes-microtransactions-through-matchmaking-granted-to-activision#:~:text=Activision has successfully patented a,based on a player's profile.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160005270A1/en

[astral haven]

Ye it's my mistake for saying ads when I meant data collection for targeting

[pale sigil]

pretty sure this is still not acted on yet either, just because a patent is made does not mean its used right away, if they ever do then ye fair game.

[astral haven]

2 reasons to release a patent
It's an obvious idea that is near market but not patented yet
It's not obvious but you will release a product using it soon
You can't release a patent after there's an example already for sale

[tropic nacelle]

Many captures would include pictures of my room?

I feel like you are making assumptions here now.

[pale sigil]

My main point being its not in action yet.

Till then its silly to say it is.

I will happily jump on the band wagon if even activision used their patent

[tropic nacelle]

If you get a patent approved everyone can see it. Of course you apply for patent with an idea incase it becomes relevant and good later on

[pale sigil]

That too

[astral haven]

Again prove it
They did already use VR headsets I forget which where they were testing advertisement effectiveness

[tropic nacelle]

"To improve the hand tracking feature, we collect certain data from your device when you choose to use hand tracking. This data includes your usage data, estimated hand size, and source image telemetry (e.g., exposure, contrast)"

Sounds like they don't get the image when it also says it's all deleted locally and processed locally.

The only bits sent on are extrapolated from that image which is NOT the image.

And yeah the fact quest 2 has hand tracking is another feature I guess heh.

[pale sigil]

cool but its kinda shit

tbh

[tropic nacelle]

Works ok, it's got substantially better with the later update last year

[tropic nacelle]

Haha early adopters tax, easiest way to deal with that is say you had X months of use which is worth Y difference

[astral haven]

and the x3ds ofc

cant forget those

still no boards that fit my needs 😦

[crisp granite]

would be better if the boards weren't so fucking expensive

[gusty kiln]

AMD claims cheaper board next month

[crisp granite]

same argument I had for buying an r5 3600 when I did

[gusty kiln]

soon^tm

[crisp granite]

comparable intel CPU was actually a bit cheaper, and performed a bit better in benchmarks iirc

boards were a solid hundred or so bucks more expensive than AMD comparable at best

[gusty kiln]

yeah AMD is in an awkward position this time around for mainstream CPUs

not counting threadripper

[astral haven]

and intel noticed that and now its near the exact opposite lel

[gusty kiln]

kekek

if there's margins to be made, it will

[astral haven]

profits

[gusty kiln]

pwofitsss

[astral haven]

margins are related to profits

[gusty kiln]

higher margin is what I meant

[ashen spindle]

idk how much amd can influence board makers compared to how much intel can though

[gusty kiln]

yeah that's an interesting dynamic we don't know about

is it like nvidia or reverse nvidia

[astral haven]

amd definetly has the disadvantage of using 2 chips to match the features of one intel chip

and it is noooot a small chip

[pale sigil]

I shouldn't laugh

i got a 5600x at launch

xD

280 quid from ocuk

[ashen spindle]

yeah and intel has the benefit of idm prices vs tsmc/gf prices

5600x didnt really have anything that was out 6 months later that lowered prices though

that tooka while longer

[astral haven]

the 5600x itself dropped in price lel

[ashen spindle]

no that soon

at least not here

[astral haven]

and it only took a few weeks

ah

[fleet sand]

are the new ryzen cpus good

[astral haven]

well in the us it was 50 off relatively soon

[ashen spindle]

yes but february is when the better ones come

[astral haven]

there arent any bad cpus really
but define good...

[mild dome]

With the talk about how they were splitting the board chipset into two chips I really thought boards were going to be cheaper then last gen

[gusty kiln]

depends on platform cost

[ashen spindle]

and yea depends on what you want it for

[fleet sand]

are they better value ig?

for the same performance

[ashen spindle]

for what

[astral haven]

solid no

[gusty kiln]

intel slightly ahead in everywhere

[fleet sand]

so intel has better value rn ok

[astral haven]

unless you need avx512

[ashen spindle]

it depends on what you use it for

[gusty kiln]

idk what's your budget and use case?

[mild dome]

Board cost too high, only possible adcantage is in theory you could easily upgrade with the 8000, 9000, etc. cpus

[fleet sand]

so the chip itself isn't bad value, its just the board?

[gusty kiln]

nothing is bad

just bad prices

[ashen spindle]

again, it depends on what you use it for

[fleet sand]

yeah I meant price-wise

sounds like intel and amd have flipped XD

[astral haven]

the chips arent cheap
the boards arent cheap
and they dont support ddr4

[fleet sand]

I remember when the z370 boards cost like double the prices of a b450

[astral haven]

well yes

[mild dome]

When people ask if something is good they usually want a comparison price wise with the closest competitors. Stip being pedantic

[fleet sand]

and you needed good cooler to OC

[astral haven]

bad example lel

[fleet sand]

all those extra costs made me go for the 3600 xd

[astral haven]

you need a muuuuuuuch stronger cooler if you want to oc amd

[gusty kiln]

he still hasn't stated a use case

[astral haven]

and several people want just as fast as possible

myself included

[fleet sand]

no one really ocs amd

[astral haven]

because its hard and requires a ton of effort

[fleet sand]

I think performance increase wasn't worth the extra $

[astral haven]

intel was relatively aloot easier to oc
you could easily push it super far on just air cooling

but then they kept adding cores...

[tropic nacelle]

AMD mostly maximises what you get out of a chip these days, there isn't much left on the table which in a way is a good thing for the general public but a bit of a loss for those who used to overclock heavily

[fleet sand]

yes cause the kcpus were pretty much meant for OC

wait you don't OC intel chips anymore?

[astral haven]

you can it just now requires beefy cooling

liquid preferably

[mild dome]

"Hey I need help selecting a device, is this one good"
"Everything is good!"
"But like what is the best"
"Everything is best! Unless you consider the things!"
"What's the best for the things?"
"Well that depends, they are all good :::::DDDDDDF"

Like just ask for use case straight up and stop playing games

[fleet sand]

im not buying anything

[astral haven]

"everything is best" is demonstrably false

[tropic nacelle]

Context is key yes, good products are relative to the budget and primary uses

[gusty kiln]

still no use case

[fleet sand]

I just wanted to know how the cpu market is today

at least approximately

[mild dome]

It's an exaggeration of the what the other guy said god damn

[astral haven]

still is a strawman

[mild dome]

Gaming, working, at what price?

[fleet sand]

cause back in the day you could literally answer "ryzen for budget, intel if you want to spend extra on single core perf and do all your OC stuff"

[astral haven]

and you would be wrong if you said that

[fleet sand]

that was the answer back in the day though

[astral haven]

"people said that" doesnt make it correct

[tropic nacelle]

The value component was valid for AMD from really 2000 series onwards.
For games of didn't being a "just get AMD" until 3000

[fleet sand]

ic, well I was just wondering what you guys thought of current cpu market

[astral haven]

the 8100f slaughtered the 1600af for cheaper

[tropic nacelle]

Generally before you would say Intel for best gaming performance but AMD for value for money

[fleet sand]

ah I meant 2600/3600

in the US

[ashen spindle]

cpu market is in pretty good competition and it's funny to laugh at intel for having so many delays in all markets lel

[fleet sand]

back when intel didn't lower their prices XD

[astral haven]

which were beaten by the 8400f

the low end f series were pretty good deals

it was always a tradeoff

[fleet sand]

the deals came later, months after intel realized amd was killing their market

[gusty kiln]

wait when did they add HT to lower end parts?

[fleet sand]

and they were only comparable in gaming

[astral haven]

@gusty kiln then

[fleet sand]

cause their multicore perf was very very different

[astral haven]

yes but they were the same performance for aloooot cheaper

[tropic nacelle]

I think now the 13th gen i3 and i5s are better value in general for gaming right now.

AM5 boards are too expensive right now but it's getting closer in total package cost.

[astral haven]

buzzer noise incorrect

[gusty kiln]

I remember when battlefield was not hot garbage and it was causing the some 8th gen i5 to stutter a lot

[astral haven]

the 2700x smashed the 8700k in productivity
that was basically it

everything else same price got you the same perf

with intel taking a miiiiinor lead in st and amd taking a miiiinor lead in mt

[fleet sand]

i mean if you look at benchmarks, the 2600 is a lot better than the 8400f in multicore

and when the 3600 released

[astral haven]

depends on the benchmarks

[fleet sand]

9400f wasn't comparable

[astral haven]

9400f was extremely comparable lel

do a quick bit of ram oc and the 9400f was a screamer

benefited alot more from ram oc than the 3000 series did surprisingly enough

[fleet sand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGNG9AZKtsg&ab_channel=HardwareUnboxed

you can take a look at any 3600 vs 9400f review on tests like blender etc.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/3097vs3494vs3235vs3397/Intel-i5-8400-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-2600X-vs-Intel-i5-9400F

[astral haven]

except the intel was noticeably cheaper

[astral haven]

again depends on the benchmark

[fleet sand]

yes that was when they slashed the prices

[astral haven]

no

[fleet sand]

which was like months after

[astral haven]

again no

[fleet sand]

and at that point it was just comparable for gaming

[astral haven]

the intel boards were cheaper

[fleet sand]

depends on which board

im assuming you're talking about the b460

[astral haven]

and the 3200 low cl sticks that were fantastic on intel were alot cheaper than the 3600 sticks you wanted on amd

[astral haven]

heck with intel you could go way further down the stack and get a very solid board

[fleet sand]

yeah but you could skip out on ram oc

its only like 2-5% more perf

[astral haven]

buzzer noise incorrect

a good ram oc is over 50% at the high end
and intels low end with the tiny caches benefited alot more

[astral haven]

and no i mean stock vs stock

with xmp 3200 low cl vs 3600 at same price

[tropic nacelle]

You didn't need 3600mhz for AMD it was just peak performance against infinity fabric clocks.

3200mhz with reasonable timings were fine

[astral haven]

yep but at 3200, intel was faster

in many games, amd lost alot below 3600

[fleet sand]

you get 50% more performance with good ram oc?

[astral haven]

yep

[fleet sand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHJ16hD4ysk&t=436s&ab_channel=LinusTechTips

is this some extreme ram oc

[astral haven]

from worst ram to best oc ram you can double your perf

[astral haven]

yep

but the point is you can gain alot

and 3200 c14 was aloooooooooot cheaper than 3600 c18 at the time

[fleet sand]

do you have a link to an article/post

I don't remember seeing such perf gains in the past

even though infinity fabric did become a lot more important after zen 2

[astral haven]

this was intel not amd

amd couldnt oc ram as hard

[fleet sand]

oh you mean 50% gains for intel

[astral haven]

itll take me a while

[fleet sand]

wait I thought intel didn't care about ram back in the day

thats all I remember hearing

[gusty kiln]

yeah my 3700X had trouble with 3600 a few times

[astral haven]

what you heard wasnt nescessarily the truth lel

[fleet sand]

I lived in bapc for about 6 months back when I was building pcs for other ppl as a hobby

[astral haven]

again same story

[fleet sand]

but then I stopped cause life yenno

[astral haven]

bapc is not known for stopping to think deeply

[fleet sand]

ye but thats where ppl go to get builds from XD

[astral haven]

🤷 doesnt mean the advice is correct

and also just because the intel was technically faster if you spec exactly correctly doesnt mean that people should buy it

[fleet sand]

well again its all about value

and use case

which is why ryzens were flying off the shelves

[astral haven]

yep but we already figured out that intel did in fact have a value advantage despite their sales not reflecting that...

[fleet sand]

and ppl only bought intel for OCing high performance purposes, or because there was some sick sale once in a blue moon

[astral haven]

well no

intel outsold amd alot:1

pretty sure it was between 3 and 4 besides in germany

[fleet sand]

I'd believe it 100% that intel outsold amd a lot

even back during the zen 2 boom

but back then most ppl only thought about intel

[astral haven]

https://kingfaris.co.uk/blog/intel-ram-oc-impact/6

[fleet sand]

cause amd had been throwing out mediocre chips for the better part of the last decade

[tropic nacelle]

Definitely depends on the game, at 3200 cas 14 for both 9600k and 3600 they performed very similarly in TPU games, not much in it some wins and losses between them.

Intel was always known to be less latency sensitive so they gained less from ram increases and were competitive with 3200 no doubt. Just wasn't required for either though

[fleet sand]

and also intel has so many more pre-build deals

[astral haven]

"mediocre"

[pale sigil]

Another example of why USB Type C 2.0 sucks ass

[astral haven]

buzzer noise incorrect
ryzen dgaf about latency
all that mattered was that the fclk be synced and as high as possible

[fleet sand]

yes from the piledrivers or w/e you call them to the first ryzens

[pale sigil]

4gb file

[tropic nacelle]

An example of windows copy being abysmal 🙂

[fleet sand]

first ryzens were decent at best but still lacked the single core perf that ppl wanted

[astral haven]

they were not mediocre

they were atrocious

[fleet sand]

XDDD

[astral haven]

Phenom was faster

[fleet sand]

I guess I should've said mediocre at best

[tropic nacelle]

Should have been more clear, because the fabric speed is 1:1 up to 3600mhz it benefited more.

The end result is yes it benefited more from faster ram being setup

[pale sigil]

Could not use teracopy sadly

[tropic nacelle]

Phenom was a beast, screw Intel did AMD so dirty.

[gusty kiln]

I know some people are using alternative file explorer

which ones are actually good?

[astral haven]

Well let's not exaggerate here...

[tropic nacelle]

I mean paying for big businesses like dell to not sell competitor CPU was pretty dirty.

With a crippled income R&D suffers immensely

[astral haven]

Phenom was faster than it's successors yes
A beast it was not

[astral haven]

🤷 it happens both ways
Intel just had more money to throw around

[tropic nacelle]

Maybe I have a spot for it because I had an X3 and unlocked it into a fully working x4, those were the days haha

[fleet sand]

I took a look at the intel ram stuff

the avg seems like a 10% increase at best

between 3200cl16 and the top ram ocs

[tropic nacelle]

Nah it doesn't happen both ways, there is giving discounts and then there is telling them no money unless you 100% don't sell our competitors.

It's why they were fined but AMD needed the money so had to take the small 1 billion

[fleet sand]

I dont remember exactly how much ram costed back in the day but im pretty sure it wasn't worth it and thats why it wasn't being recommended XD

easier and cheaper to get more performance by upgrading cpu instead of paying 100$+ more for the best ram

[astral haven]

That's not quite correct
But I bought my 3200 c14 for 100 for 32gb

And make sure you are looking at the auto

Because you can do a ton of secondary and tert tuning to make things faster

[fleet sand]

isn't auto on intel set at like 2133 or something

if you don't touch the xmp settings at all

but back then the cheapest and best value ram was either 3000cl15 or 3200cl16

[astral haven]

2666 for 9000

[vagrant pagoda]

i got lucky with my x3d

[tropic nacelle]

That auto is same thing for AMD, they are both low and you need to load the overclock profile for your ram as technically they are overclocks

[astral haven]

That's incorrect by being a definite statement
The best value ram depended on the CPU you bought

[vagrant pagoda]

she dosent complain running 2000 fabricx

[fleet sand]

ah yeah if you buy like 9900k and need some more perf, the extra $ you spend on better ram is probably worth

just cause ram is smaller % of overall budget

[astral haven]

Buzzer noise again
High end parts had more cache
More cache = less caring about ram speed

[fleet sand]

ok but theres no way you spend all that extra $$$ for 4200cl16 ram when you're running a 8400f

which was the whole point of the intel vs amd convo for budget builds in the first place

[astral haven]

That ram you can't purchase

It's an overclock

[vagrant pagoda]

yeah

[fleet sand]

do you just buy ram and hope it bins well?

idk how extreme ram oc works

[vagrant pagoda]

4200cl16 zooming

[gusty kiln]

some of intel's 13th gen non-k CPU have their L2 cache reduced

[ashen spindle]

because they use alder lake dies for it

or cut down rpl

[gusty kiln]

avoid anything lower than a 13700

[astral haven]

there are specific chips that overclock well
you buy kits that only have those chips

[fleet sand]

like bdie or something

[astral haven]

yeeep

[gusty kiln]

think e-die was a budget option

micron

[astral haven]

i got a solid kit of ewaste special bdie for partially free

micron chips are called rev-#

so micron e = rev e

my ewaste special bdie stock is 2400 c16

it overclocks to 3800c17

also quite happy at 3200 c14

i bought 3200 c14 bdie, and that stuff ive never managed to push to its limits bc the 1900x is my limiting factor for it

[fleet sand]

hmmm well since you guys want a use case and budget, what if someone wanted to buy a cpu + mobo + ram for 500$

assuming 16gb of ram

[astral haven]

wait for new stuff to release

[fleet sand]

and use case being gaming + streaming + light video editing

whats coming out?

[astral haven]

depends

do you need cpu encode?

[fleet sand]

id assume not really

[ashen spindle]

the zen4 vcache cpus are coming in a month

[fleet sand]

since gpu encoders can do the job for streaming these days

[astral haven]

probably 5000 ryzen then likely

perhaps mid 13th gen ddr4 will fit?

[fleet sand]

ic

then if the budget were to be raised a little higher to like 700$

would you go intel?

[astral haven]

probably starting to look at the lower end of ddr5

intel or amd

[fleet sand]

ok

good to know

either way im not upgrading rn, but ill wait and see what comes out ig

[astral haven]

once you are actually at ddr5 really the diff between the two is minimal, but then x3d will change that...

[ashen spindle]

we'll have to see with the V$ cpus since some games will get 0 uplift and some could see a lot, so that will be a more situational thing probably

[astral haven]

yep

but im curious to see when the performance falls...

[fleet sand]

I feel like gaming is such an easy requirement for hardware these days

[ashen spindle]

also for the 2ccd versions it'll depend on how well the scheduler will work

[astral haven]

"170w" to "120w" is a big change

[astral haven]

depends on the monitor lel

[fleet sand]

software used to take big hits on hardware but now everything can run x

more about how many extra frames you can get so you can appreciate the difference between 144 and 200 fps XD

[ashen spindle]

I mean if we run 30fps@720 sure, above that we have games and resolutions that challenge that

[astral haven]

also this^

msfs

[fleet sand]

oh yeah resolutions are a thing, but your gpu will die first def

ig in that regard we're not caught up at all

[astral haven]

gpus are speeding up faster than cpus can keep up

[ashen spindle]

we'll still need a much bigger performance jump though if we want proper RT implementations to run well

[fleet sand]

AAA games are limited by cpu?

on higher res*

[astral haven]

everything is cpu limited at 1080p on the 4090 and 7900s

1440p too

and in many many games at 4k too

[ashen spindle]

not with heavy RT and such

[tropic nacelle]

At 4k? No
At 1440p? Depends on the game

This also assumes you are talking about higher than 60hz screens

[astral haven]

also true

[ashen spindle]

control on high settings is gpu limited for me lel

[astral haven]

4090 and 7900xt

[ashen spindle]

not even high, medium rt too

but man does it look nice with RT and HDR

[astral haven]

if your cpu was 2x faster, your fps would be signiiiificantly higher

[ashen spindle]

well I guess with RT being partly limited by cpu due to the way it is, not wrong I guess

[astral haven]

the point is that your fps can be gpu limited, but it is not gpu bound

[fleet sand]

the only way I know how to test gpu vs cpu bottleneck is to see if gpu usage is at 99%

that was the old method XD

if it was at 99%, then you're being gpu bottlenecked

otherwise, cpu bottlenecked

or just bad game design

[astral haven]

yep and thats not always correct

[ashen spindle]

usage isn't really a useable indicator anymore

[fleet sand]

much simpler back then

[gusty kiln]

more power now

[astral haven]

if your gpu power usage is 100% of its power limit, a faster gpu will increase your performance

i dont think anything else is particularly provable

[fleet sand]

so we're supposed to look at wattage now?

instead of usage?

[tropic nacelle]

Yes no upscalers or frame interpolation to wonder "what is a valid frame "

The old days were simpler better or worse in the games you play. Now it's a little more difficult to pick the pros and cons completely

[astral haven]

no just ignore it until you are unhappy with the performance

[fleet sand]

Im perfectly happy with my 5700 xt

[tropic nacelle]

You are always going to hit a bottleneck it's just accepting a point you are happy with really.

Most mid range CPU is going to cover you for most games like the 5600x or i5 equivalent these days.

[fleet sand]

got it on fb marketplace for 180$ cad

and I only play competitive games so XD

[astral haven]

so ignore it lel
have fun until it starts being a problem

[tropic nacelle]

That is the best advice

[astral haven]

yes but if cpus had increased in perf as much as gpus, our fps would be aloooooooooot higher

[fleet sand]

lowkey my rx 570 I had before wasn't giving me any problems, but I really just wanted a decent encoder

[astral haven]

oops

[tropic nacelle]

Yeah it's a very different workload though sadly!

[ashen spindle]

I guess playing with power/clock limit does make for a somewhat good way to see if the gpu is the limitation for a usecase

[astral haven]

nope

[ashen spindle]

but easiest way is probably just looking at reviews if another card goes faster lel

[astral haven]

it may tell you if the gpu is A limitation
but nowdays both parts will increase your performance...

[ashen spindle]

I mean

there will still be cases where it's just hard limited

[astral haven]

ive looked for a while

most hard limits are engine limitations

[ashen spindle]

sure, but some obvious cases like if you have an AI heavy thing won't see any change if it's just hard limited by that

[astral haven]

sure but thats usually not raw fps

[ashen spindle]

huh

[astral haven]

civ its seconds per turn for example

[ashen spindle]

oh I dont mean something like civ, but if you have a crown in a sity cim, like cities skylines or so

[astral haven]

i havent seen any graphs of cities skylines where a bunch of different hardware had the same performance?

[ashen spindle]

I have no clue about it, it was just the best thing I could think of

most games like gta do crowd sim in a less heavy way

[gusty kiln]

2042 shows both cpu and gpu frame times

https://preview.redd.it/j93egl9vp3z71.jpg?auto=webp&s=9c6b3d7728476195506b255fd0bccd5969fd8df4

dunno what the other 2 are

[ashen spindle]

sim is probably server tick rate

[gusty kiln]

huh, 30 is actually not bad for 128 players

[astral haven]

and mp/s is probably pixels per second

[ashen spindle]

could be I guess

[astral haven]

it shows 3.6 which means it could go as high as what is that bit over 250 fps?

[ashen spindle]

does 2042 have a local game mode or so?

so could be singleplayer goes as high as fps

[gusty kiln]

think for solo bot matches

[astral haven]

i mean csgo doesnt do that

internal sim rate is often limited for physics consistency reasons

[ashen spindle]

yeah but this is EA and they are weird

but the legend above it says fps/ms as if its not a x out of y but the same in different units

idk how 30fps would be 3.6ms though

[astral haven]

it takes 3.6 ms to calculate

[ashen spindle]

and then limits it, yeah would make sense

[astral haven]

and they wait 1/30 of a second after the previous calculation to calculate again

[ashen spindle]

would make sense but just weird to display it like that

[astral haven]

🤷 its how ive always seen it when both were needed

[gusty kiln]

man I want a new gpu, but really lazy to sell my 2080

250-300 on ebay

[astral haven]

btw if yall dont know about thinkcenter aios, they are awesome

[tropic nacelle]

What makes it awesome compared to other all in one?

[ashen spindle]

oh wow looking at ebay, I should sell my 6800 lol

[astral haven]

you slot the computer in there

[gusty kiln]

roughly 400

[ashen spindle]

lol no, 500+

[gusty kiln]

wait some for 500

not in the us

400-500

you can get half a 7900xtx

[tropic nacelle]

Oh fair, I did wonder why there was a power header and display port header.

How expensive are the upgrades?

[astral haven]

its the price of a normal sff desktop

because it is their normal sff desktop

thinkcenter tiny's

[tropic nacelle]

Oh ok, maybe I thought too much. Is this just the "pc" part comes.off the monitor rear or something?

[gusty kiln]

what SoC?

[astral haven]

yup

Tiny little babypc

[tropic nacelle]

Fair enough, useful if you don't need the compactness of a complete sealed thing and gives you the upgrade path.

Never seen them in person, are the monitor parts just a standard hp monitor IPS panel or something?

[astral haven]

yup

we buy generic 24 inch business ones

they are a bit more expensive than normal monitors ~250 but they come with camera mic and speaker built in

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/monitors/tiny-in-one/11gcpar1us

oh wait this one is touchscreen????
we dont get touchscreens
thats awesome i want it now

[tropic nacelle]

That seems like a nice way to have thin client setups, clean desks.
Can't stand the idea of speakers for everyone though xD

[astral haven]

these arent even thin clients lel

that pc has a 6 core 65w capable i7 and a very low end quadro

[tropic nacelle]

Do they not do low spec versions of them?

[astral haven]

not that low

afaik

tho they might

dunno

[tropic nacelle]

Well "thin" kinda lost its meaning these days, but yeah i7 is not what I had in my head haha.

I assumed i3 or something would be nice just for meeting room pc or as a client pc.

Cool eitherway though for a cleaner setup

[ashen spindle]

anyone here wanting to buy a 6800 so I dont need to deal with ebay and/or people lol

[astral haven]

found one lmao

[tropic nacelle]

Yeah that would do just about haha. I love how it says it has windows 10 over 11 as a feature haha

[astral haven]

we use them as our main desktops

tho bc i do a quad monitor setup, i actually use a dp cable into the back of the monitor so i can get that sweet sweet nvidia functional drivers

my boss agrees

currently have around 300 of them deployed lel

lenovo overnights us replacement parts lel

[pale sigil]

Fuck off

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[empty wren]

What phone?

[pale sigil]

I just restored to oem rom

[empty wren]

😵‍💫

Well that sucks

Especially since usually can carryover data

[pale sigil]

Lesson learned I guess lol

[empty wren]

Though it is weird the watch needs to be reset

Maybe a privacy feature

🤷

[pale sigil]

I backed up my health data thankfully lol

I missed miui so much

[empty wren]

Yeah I am not so certain vanilla android makes much sense anymore, especially with the hardware available today

[pale sigil]

I really hate the modern discord app

Why is everything so big

[empty wren]

Whatcha mean everything is normal sized

Anyways you can fiddle with those settings if it really bothers you

And this is why you do not give a gpu drugs

[final flame]

gpu drugs is overclocking

[tropic nacelle]

Yeah it's privacy, it's to avoid you connecting to a random phone and potentially have the data captured over there.

So you must reset it to be on a different device, makes sense but a pain if you flashing ROMs!

[fair gull]

i wish that was it lol. was just. a broken viewer gpu from der8auer

[empty wren]

Graphene is cool just cuz you can lock your bootloader

[frozen ingot]

heck yea

got the bad switch in my sensei ten swapped for a working used one I salvaged out of a broken deathadder

no more doubleclicking frustration

[gusty kiln]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/109kzd9/sennheiser_hd_560s_seem_to_have_made_an/

Looks like the hd560s are not a go-to recommendation anymore

Downgrade in materials and bass quality

[vagrant pagoda]

Just they way she goes bubs

[ashen spindle]

https://twitter.com/aschilling/status/1613542578103754753

Andreas Schilling 🇺🇦 (@aschilling)

The Core i9-13900KS is here. Unfortunately, Intel did not distribute any samples in advance. We won't be in the first round of samples either. It's almost as if they don't want to sell it ...

Twitter · Jan 12, 2023, 2:25 PM

intel not giving event hose to the reviewers after the recent lower tier skus just got dropped at CES with no info is just not a good look lol

[gusty kiln]

Yeah not surprising since the hd600 got some downgrades a few years ago as well

[gusty kiln]

Hwu already got a review, barely even 5% faster than 13900k on average

[latent mural]

im in a tricky situation. I have a 3080ti msi suprim x, that i can sell and with that money i can either buy a 7900xt or 4070ti (Asus rog) no extra money or i can buy a 6950xt tuf gaming oc and make 200 +. what should i do

[ashen spindle]

why do you want to sell it

[latent mural]

because i can have smth slightly better for no cost

or smth even for 200 bucks in my pocket

[vagrant pagoda]

4070ti isnt a bad upgrade

6950 is a big step down

[latent mural]

6950xt is at least as good as 3080ti

if not even better

[ashen spindle]

depends on the game

[latent mural]

except few RT games

[vagrant pagoda]

power

6950 is way way less efficient than a 3080ti

[latent mural]

[ashen spindle]

eh

draw more power sure, but alos beats the 3080ti depending on which game

look at some games that you play or reviews with simialr titles and see what would make more sense for your use case

[final flame]

wait til there's actual measurements, these are all subjective listening tests

[ashen spindle]

if you play lots of CoD get the amd card no questions asked for example

[latent mural]

Apex mostly

[ashen spindle]

I mean, doesnt that have an engine cap at like 300 anyway?

which means it depends if you would even gain anything from getting a better gpu

[gusty kiln]

What resolution on apex?

[gusty kiln]

Yeah, but I can see the slight pad material change affect the sound. Hope Resolve gets a pair to test. Just like how he did the sundara pad change.

[gusty kiln]

How hard do you dip in bang ult/smoke with a 3080ti? and what cpu

[latent mural]

13600kf

[latent mural]

idk tbh

i can test in firing range

[gusty kiln]

If you play all low should be able to get 200 fps minimum even in intense moments

[latent mural]

but im capped at 165hz atm cause my monitor cant do more but i wanna upgrade that aswell to 240hz

and i want the 240 to be as consistent as possible

[gusty kiln]

1080p 240 would be ez

[latent mural]

1440p enjoyer

[gusty kiln]

But seems like 1440p

Yeah same

[latent mural]

[gusty kiln]

I got the m27q-x

2080 struggles in a lot of scenarios

[latent mural]

i might get the aorus fiq27 x or smth

[gusty kiln]

There are better options

Unless region

[latent mural]

which

i can get that monitor for around 400

slightly used but perfect condition

[gusty kiln]

Is that the one with bgr pixels?

[latent mural]

bgr pixels?

background?

[gusty kiln]

Blue green red pixel layout

Instead of red green blue

It makes texts look worse compared to rgb

[halcyon moss]

there are settings for that

[gusty kiln]

It is bgr according to rting

Guess that's why it's cheaper

[final flame]

theres ways to fix it but it doesnt work for apps that use certain text rendering

[reef patrol]

Seems like something you could override in the driver?

[gusty kiln]

You could just flip the display

[reef patrol]

[gusty kiln]

Either the m27q-x or the msi 1440p 240hz would be my budget pick

After that go 4k or oled or go home

[latent mural]

which msi

Which 1440p 27" monitor is good for 400

this is the best i can get here in germany

even the m27q is around 600

[gusty kiln]

Ouch

Lemme check the part number

[gusty kiln]

MAG274QRX

How much is that model in Germany

[latent mural]

663

RXDE 559

[gusty kiln]

Damn

[latent mural]

in offer, usually 649

[gusty kiln]

Well just get whatever you feel comfortable spending

[latent mural]

400 is max id go on Monitor

thats why this offer is coming in handy

[gusty kiln]

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/gigabyte/aorus-fi27q-x

[vagrant pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNGJ13VSRLk

[thick pine]

This is what I got recently

LG UltraGear QHD 27-Inch Gaming Monitor 27GL83A-B - IPS 1ms (GtG), with HDR 10 Compatibility, NVIDIA G-SYNC, and AMD FreeSync, 144Hz, Black https://a.co/d/f3Ylrpw

[latent mural]

aight

idk if that is supposaed to be a suggestion. If so, it doesnt have 240hz

[thick pine]

Huh?

That’s 140

Oh you want 240

Can I ask why?

[ashen spindle]

because if he is on 165hz 140hz would be a downgrade I would assume is the reason

[thick pine]

Yeah but what do you need 240 for?

Like what does anyone need 240 for

Unless you’re a pro LoL or CS player, it’s virtually worthless

[ashen spindle]

because we are not at 1000hz or so yet where you could actually argue it wont matter

diminishing effect, sure, but it's still something most people can see the difference in

[thick pine]

No graphics card is gonna go 1000fps on most games

Or even 240

[ashen spindle]

if he plays one game that has an engine cap of 300 and people reach that cap

whats the issue with wanting 240hz then

[thick pine]

Idk I tried a 240 on CS and I couldn’t tell a difference from a 165

[vagrant pagoda]

have you tried to git gud?

[thick pine]

I was GE man 😢

[ashen spindle]

that could simply mean the 240hz screen had a slower panel or something

[thick pine]

I doubt it

[astral haven]

nah

[ashen spindle]

or it was not enough of a difference for you to notice

[astral haven]

its just you didnt know what to look for

[thick pine]

It was like a $800 monitor

I didn’t buy it

I tried it

[ashen spindle]

oh if only cost was an indication of quality lol

[astral haven]

^

[thick pine]

What else

[astral haven]

if you just tried it for a few mins, you definetly wouldnt get accustomed to it

[ashen spindle]

raw specs?

reviews that are not from the person trying to sell it to you is usually a good way when marketing tries to hide stuff

it's unlikely a cheaper one outperforms a lot, but nothing stops companies from selling bad models for way too much and selling it lol

[thick pine]

If a product bombs and gets terrible reviews people won’t buy it

[astral haven]

very untrue lmao

[thick pine]

I’d wager most people make purchasing decisions based on amazon reviews lmfao

[ashen spindle]

and amazon reviews are like 90% bots 20% idiots who dont understand anything

[astral haven]

amazon reviews are unrelated to professional reviews

[thick pine]

That’s just wrong

[ashen spindle]

they match reviews to show reviews for different products under the same category even if it's totally different specs without making that clear

they are absolutely useless

[astral haven]

well most of the bots are also idiots that dont understand anything lel

[thick pine]

No

Most of the reviews are from verified purchasers

Human beings

[astral haven]

🤣

[thick pine]

Who ordered the same product

And made a review

[astral haven]

do you know what amazon's return policy is?

[ashen spindle]

ok, so if there is a monitor in 24 and 27" sizes, they could be vastly different, lots of people liking the 24" size and the 27" is trash but it gets the same review section so it looks like a good deal

[thick pine]

You think that majority of sales on Amazon are a bot buying an item, writing a fake review, and then returning said item?

Delusional as fuck