lmfao
#🔌│tech
cursive summit
Pleasant's not Netherlandish, and whoever he's buying for is completely inept in PCs 
tropic nacelle
Tell them they can :).
Sorry so much chat I just try and give some options.
cursive summit
Tbf I would probably just get a prebuilt at that point
There are some decent prebuilts for 1200
pale sigil
Tbf I would probably just get a prebuilt at that point
nah
they were using shitty shit like 1140
stark bobcat
Tell them they can :).
Sorry so much chat I just try and give some options.
My best friend also doubted he could do it but I convinced him and he did just fine
pale sigil
and only 3060s
ashen spindle
5600 needs like 50-60W worst case for gaming, usually less though, ram is 3w or so per 6gb, an nvme needs like 5 or so
pale sigil
i5-11400 sorry
cursive summit
Again I did account peripherals, RAM and other stuff like that into the PSU calculator
It did say 550W is plenty
ashen spindle
even with 10% efficenmcy loss that wont even get to 100w so a 400W powerspike from the gpu is totally fine for 550w psu
pale sigil
plus pre build mobos were so meh
cursive summit
I can get kind of alright prebuilts here locally
stark bobcat
Considering how long they last 20€ more isn't a big deal
cursive summit
With 12400/5600 and 3060Tis for 1200
Netherlands probably has it worse
I wonder if the price for the Lenovo 3070 prebuilt has come down
As far as prebuilts go, Lenovo Legions are insanely nice
Oh shit it has
pale sigil
Lenovo
cursive summit
If i5-11400f is a problem, there is a version with R7 5800
pale sigil
usually single slot and refernece cards
cursive summit
But Lenovo Legion is actually surprisingly really good
pale sigil
lenovo refernce cards a thermal hell
cursive summit
No?
pale sigil
in general thermals are bad with thiese
cursive summit
Lenovo cards are good
pale sigil
@reef patrol its what you got right
reef patrol
Que?
reef patrol
HP 3080 from an HP gaming PC.
pale sigil
@cursive summitlink
reef patrol
But since I don't use the original cooling not super relevant. 😄
cursive summit
Yeah Lenovo's ones are far better than that
pale sigil
LINKY
cursive summit
<@290176243544883200>link
You planning to buy from my local stores?
Okey fine
Maybe it exists somewhere in Netherlands for a good price
Lenovo cards are actually good
And prebuilts are also as good
I think GN or HU reviewed a Lenovo card, it was surprisingly good
cursive summit
No prebuilt imo will ever rival a self assembled PC
pale sigil
i meant vs the one im configuring
cursive summit
I figured so
But I guess it's a fully complete package out of a factory and you only need to slap OS in
pale sigil
idk i just dont like buying these sort of machines
i hate their cases also, but ram itself is usually oem etc
cursive summit
There are video reviews for these things, you know
When I wanted to buy one, I checked a lot of em out
cursive summit
Reception is typically fairly positive
ashen spindle
oem ram works fine if it does the specs it says
cursive summit
Any recommendations to keep price down
Show current list
cursive summit
gonna hate me so much
That'd be pushing the boundaries of what's feasible, I hate you enough now
cursive summit
Good GPU, PSU, case, CPU and RAM/storage
I don't see you spending less on a mobo so that's fine
I guess I'd just kick out the 212
cursive summit
That seems like it's a good list to me
Not much else you can cut on other than fucking REMOVE THE 212 EVO
Stock cooler is adequate
ashen spindle
stock cooler wont work we went over that
ashen spindle
I swear you like purposely read only every third line or so
reef patrol
Grab one of the cheaper Noctuas if they have some. Just to spite Vexx and get better, quieter fans
ashen spindle
suggested that, noctua seems more expensive there
reef patrol
Something from Arctic maybe?
pale sigil
reef patrol
Aren't their F12 fans like """better""" than noctua?
latent mural
How much do noctuas cost???
pale sigil
latent mural
There's one on a Estonian site that's like 21€
latent mural
Wait what
latent mural
on my sites they're like under 30€
pale sigil
what site
latent mural
Arvutitark
ashen spindle
a fan or the entire cooler
ashen spindle
yes we are looking for coolers
latent mural
Oh
pale sigil
near Scotland irrc
cursive summit
Fam that website is so damn slow
Scythe makes good shit
FUMA 2 is some of the best air cooling you can buy
For 60 euros too
I imagine katana isn't that much worse in quality
tropic nacelle
TO LOUD
If the stock cooler is too loud, I fear the GPU may be a problem as GPU coolers are louder than the ryzen stock cooler generally, assuming they set the thermal delay so it doesn't ramp up and down immediately
reef patrol
Noise adds up. Changing the CPU cooler still outputs less noise, regardless of GPU noise levels.
pale sigil
cursive summit
Aren't we looking for cheap?
pale sigil
ye
cursive summit
Arctic Freezer 7X
pale sigil
i was just showing mansen
pale sigil
oh i missunderstood supplier vs the other
tropic nacelle
As you want to save costs to fit budget, why are you spending €100 on the PSU?
https://azerty.nl/product/seasonic-g12-gc-550-voeding-intern/4484240
That's another seasonic and almost 30 euros less
Or even get a 650w and save a few euros still
https://azerty.nl/product/seasonic-core-gold-gc-650-voeding-intern/3979945
ashen spindle
not modular so could be a hassle to deal with if you ever need tto touch anything
tropic nacelle
not modular so could be a hassle to deal with if you ever need tto touch anythin...
Yes but the person can't build it so why pay for a feature you won't use.
Once it's tidied away it's not a problem anyway.
stark bobcat
Wait I thought they weren't building it? I was gone for a bit since I had shit to do did that change?
ashen spindle
no but even if you dont touch it yourself if you get someone to upgrade or change something for you, that might need a psu replacement then
cursive summit
Also the higher the 80+ rating, the better
ashen spindle
but yes could be some saving but I wouldn't go for it even without plans for the owner to touch the system
tropic nacelle
If it was me I'd buy a 750w seasonic and keep it for a decade or so across builds!
They are constrained to a budget so it seems silly to spend the small bits you working over for a non feature
If they get the pc repaired or upgraded the shop isn't going to charge extra because the PSU wasn't modular
ashen spindle
can save a 550w for a decade as well if you dont suddently have really big upgrades
cursive summit
I kinda like the power savings of 80+ platinum
I'd even get 80+ titanium but those are expensivo
ashen spindle
not if it works, but will cost more if more devices or so dont work with the cables that come with it
tropic nacelle
Don't mean to say the 550w will break sorry if that was implied, I meant to cater for bigger gpus
ashen spindle
or if a cable breaks you cant really break it
stark bobcat
Higher wattage could also save u power depending on what the average load is unlikely here tho
tropic nacelle
People break PSU cables? Never broken one on 2 decades xD, they aren't technical I assume that's why they aren't building it so they won't be opening it up to any risk of it breaking
ashen spindle
Higher wattage could also save u power depending on what the average load is unl...
could also cost you more, above and below the 50% point is going down
so that is kinda the same
tropic nacelle
The 80 plus rating stuff is only at like 20, 50, 80% load is it not? You have to weigh that up yes.
cursive summit
In the grand scheme of things, is it worth actually investing into a higher 80+ rating if the product is otherwise the same
Like, I imagine it is?
Higher certification means more reliable product
stark bobcat
But the wattage wouldn't be the same
ashen spindle
no it doesnt lol
tropic nacelle
In the grand scheme of things, is it worth actually investing into a higher 80+ ...
They aren't generally the same though.
The certification doesn't mean more reliable.
It just means it hits their target efficiency points, you can have well designed 80 plus rated PSU that won't die but is a a little off efficiency
ashen spindle
Higher certification means more reliable product
literally just means it hits certain points
stark bobcat
Higher certification means more reliable product
This is not true
Go buy a chieftek gold rated psu
tropic nacelle
Seasonic stuff is generally a safe bet as they make very good PSUs, impossible to say it's always flawless mind
cursive summit
PSU calculator does say that your load and annual savings do differ depending on 80+ ratings
waxen hatch
it just demonstrates energy efficiency. Typically to achieve this they’ll have higher quality components and design, but it doesn’t mean it’s a reliable product
waxen hatch
as someone who has lost an entire system to a bad PSU (ty gigabyte), take it from me.. do not cheap out on PSU
tropic nacelle
It can only give you a rough guide, I don't think losing 5% or less isna big deal on 550w
ashen spindle
yes
waxen hatch
550W is shite tho
cursive summit
Fine for the rig
waxen hatch
You won’t be able to use that in your next system
stark bobcat
Will definitely run on 550w
ashen spindle
yeah well it also doesnt mean anything if you get a 1600W psu to be safe forever and cant afford a gpu
waxen hatch
Headroom is OK
pale sigil
again this isn't for me
tropic nacelle
It's fine just saying there is a cheaper one with no real difference and that gets you 30 euro to spend elsewhere
waxen hatch
I didn’t say to triple it
@pale sigil if you don’t know what you’re doing don’t go selling people systems
cursive summit
Fuck corsair
waxen hatch
why
stark bobcat
Why hate rmx is good
stark bobcat
Rm is ok too
tropic nacelle
https://azerty.nl/product/corsair-rm650-2019-voeding/3924464
I linked a seasonic gold 650w for less!
waxen hatch
if you’ve got no business planning a build for someone why are you doing it @pale sigil
pale sigil
I linked a seasonic gold 650w for less!
noted
pale sigil
if you’ve got no business planning a build for someone why are you doing it <@17...
what
tropic nacelle
if you’ve got no business planning a build for someone why are you doing it <@17...
Calm down 😂
waxen hatch
You said this PC you’re planning out here isn’t for you 
pale sigil
I linked a seasonic gold 650w for less!
oh right ye non modular
none modular seems pointless imo
ashen spindle
we're helping making a budget build better its not like he was going to put amd cpu on a intel board or anything that would break it
dont see the issue
cursive summit
I am also willing to rescind my corsair "fuck you" as the RM650 falls under A category in tier list
ashen spindle
none modular seems pointless imo
30 bucks cheaper so depends on if it fits or not
cursive summit
I still hate anything corsair so fuck off
cursive summit
LTT tier list ?
The one and only
tropic nacelle
none modular seems pointless imo
They won't ever open it though, it serves no purpose when you were trying to maximise cost efficiency for the rest of the components 🙂
pale sigil
cos Linus is a great source
pale sigil
They won't ever open it though, it serves no purpose when you were trying to max...
I guess
cursive summit
It wasn't made by him
pale sigil
Ill ask them first
tropic nacelle
LTT doing technical review ratings? I would skip that.
Such a shame Jonny guru stopped his reviews, they were the best.
cursive summit
Did you read
Not made by LTT
LTTforums are a goldmine for good stuff though
Although it seems there's a more up to date version of the tierlist in https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/
pale sigil
So probably going to do with @tropic nacelles suggestion
cursive summit
Sounds like they want a 550W Titanium PSU to me
cursive summit
Can't go wrong with Trident Z
pale sigil
CL16/3200 MHz
cursive summit
Doesn't matter
stark bobcat
What's the cpu again?
pale sigil
5600
cursive summit
CL16/3200 MHz
Honestly the whole CL14-16-18 debacle is useless
I'd prolly get what's cheap and has fastest advertised frequency
stark bobcat
1:1
cursive summit
In what world 3600 and 5600 are remotely comparable
tropic nacelle
For a budget pick the lowest cas 3200mhz really or pick the lower rated 3600mhz.
Most cas 16 3200mhz as you won't be overclocking so pick the best xmp rated ones
stark bobcat
There are some affordable 3600 cl17/18 kits
pale sigil
cursive summit
You already said that
You are asking for them to assemble it, 109 euros is to be expected
tropic nacelle
Is that the only place that offers building service for them?
pale sigil
personally 32gb is a goal but having other better parts is better
pale sigil
Is that the only place that offers building service for them?
others cost more
tropic nacelle
What games are they going to be playing?
pale sigil
think one place a 3070 was like 700 euro
but regardless when i get this one down ill look at other places again
similar price but 3600
cursive summit
I think TridentZ is more likely to have higher binned memory dies so I'd stay with TridentZ
shadow minnow
Not time consuming
pale sigil
cursive summit
The person is probably not going to overclock RAM
tropic nacelle
I definitely recommend overclocking ram
Not for someone who can't build their own pc. Context is key
shadow minnow
Brings a ton of stability and performance
stark bobcat
I think TridentZ is more likely to have higher binned memory dies so I'd stay wi...
Bin does not matter if they don't oc
shadow minnow
i have done
I mean proper overclocking, each timing
pale sigil
i have
pale sigil
What else would i do
stark bobcat
Get 3600 1:1 is better
pale sigil
What does RAM actually default to when you put in a new set?
2444
tropic nacelle
Brings a ton of stability and performance
How does overclocking bring stability?
That's not right, you can achieve similar stability but you can't increase stability by overclocking
shadow minnow
How does overclocking bring stability?
That's not right, you can achieve similar...
I am joking.
But you technicially in some cases could
stark bobcat
What does RAM actually default to when you put in a new set?
Jdec
shadow minnow
My ram was just unexplainable unstable in some cases, maybe because I was using it with iGPU
tropic nacelle
Technically stock is 3200mhz support but 3600mhz is possible on most ryzen memory controllers
stark bobcat
It should
pale sigil
works for me
cursive summit
I still fail to see much point of going from 3200Mhz to 3600
cursive summit
I'd still go with the 70 euro TridentZ modules
shadow minnow
B die is nice
stark bobcat
If you can get a 3600 set u should 1:1 gets much better fps and frametimes over non 1:1
tropic nacelle
I guess the question is will they set the speed when they build it.
I bet they skip this and ship it at default which is 2133 or 2444 something
stark bobcat
Just need to configure it for 1 second in bios
cursive summit
i will make sure to check this
You'll be hoping that the company while assembling will configure the RAM
Which honestly I doubt
Mine were stock on my prebuilt
stark bobcat
Even non technical people can set up xmp and fclk ratio
shadow minnow
Depends from company to company but xmp itself isn’t hard to enable
pale sigil
funnily enough my 5600x/mobo was pre configured
stark bobcat
If you guide them
pale sigil
because i ended up pre ordering mobo/cpu/ram bundle alongside a 5600x on its own
since it was taking ages
they had done a full profile setup for the ram etc
Sold the second 5600x for 20 quid more
giveaway the ram bundle (16gb)
pale sigil
Looking at another site, even the 6750x costs 100 euro more
stark bobcat
for a non technical person I'd say buy an nvidia card
pale sigil
Because i just spent ages moving from AMD xD
stark bobcat
I have an amd card
they are ok
but any semblance of instability will fuck with the drivers
pale sigil
Maybe one day she will like Linux and be glad to be on AMD
stark bobcat
since amd is more sensitive to that
ashen spindle
that is just your speculation at this point
stark bobcat
no it's not
my nvidia cards have no problems in my unstable systems
amd drivers instantly do the "the version of adrenaline is not compatible"
ashen spindle
what do you mean with unstable system first off
ashen spindle
and how many dozen different amd cards different unstable systems do you have that indicate it is on amd
could literally just be the pcie connection on your card having some tiny issue and this it barely works on a stable system or something random
stark bobcat
man just talk to @astral haven he has more cards than me and agrees with this
ashen spindle
we're not talking about a 580 or anything though
I dont disagree that pre rdna2 drivers arent great
stark bobcat
no my 6700 does this
ashen spindle
so we have 1 sample
stark bobcat
it's not a driver problem
just amd cards being more sensitive
I don't consider it a bad thing personally
but for a less technical person it would be
stark bobcat
so we have 1 sample
again when I brought this up with camonben he agreed altho he prolly has more older amd cards
since he doesn't seem to be a huge fan
ashen spindle
ok but the system will be prebuilt so ram is set to XMP at max and 3200 isnt going to make ram unstable unless you get like first gen ddr4 bins
stark bobcat
sure AMD would probably be fine but AMD does like to bungle up drivers and me personally: I like to do as little troubleshooting as possible for systems I recommend to people
I will always recommend nvidia cards to non technical people
for the foreseeable future
ashen spindle
idk current gpu prices dont let me do that without at the very least mention the other option and how likely i personallly think there is an issue or not
stark bobcat
sure I do mention amd as an option and that they are likely better value
but I strongly urge them to get nvidia
sharp badger
What does the Ver. 4.43 indicate? 😅
ashen spindle
when I see 6900xt new for cheaper than 3080 new I just cant say I recommend nvidia over it for some potential unkown issues at some point
stark bobcat
I like amd but I hate troubleshooting for other people when I don't evne get paid
and I couldn't just leave them hanging either
that would be shitty of me
stark bobcat
when I see 6900xt new for cheaper than 3080 new I just cant say I recommend nvid...
people I recommend systems for are not that rich
ashen spindle
same thing goes down the entire product stack
cursive summit
same thing goes down the entire product stack
That is true
AMD is just outdoing Nvidia nowadays
stark bobcat
eh I'd still prefer them to get a 3060 over whatever the amd price equivalent currently is as long as they know they'd get a better value with amd
ashen spindle
can find a 6800 for cheaper than a 3070
6600xt is better and cheaper than a 3060 as well
stark bobcat
"better"
amds features are pisspoor compared to nvidias
so is rt perf
raster sure
ashen spindle
ok if you do any RT performance on a 3060 go ahead I wont argue there
I also wouldn't use RT on it but thats preference
stark bobcat
so would I but plenty of people do want that
ashen spindle
so back to that topic, aside from RT what else is there that amd does do so much worse
stark bobcat
well when I got my 1070ti one could have thought I'd never use cuda but I ended up using it
ashen spindle
for what
stark bobcat
waifu2x, lc0
cursive summit
What
The only thing I ever needed CUDA for and I am sad I don't have any is Stable diffusion
stark bobcat
I prefer stockfish but lc0 is cool to mess with too
stark bobcat
yes
cursive summit
What on earth are you using Leela on
stark bobcat
The only thing I ever needed CUDA for and I am sad I don't have any is Stable di...
I used that on my 1070 too
very fun
ashen spindle
there is an openCL version of waifu2x taht might not be the same but should be close enough
ashen spindle
I see
stark bobcat
*last time I had to use it
cuda accel was about 4x faster than my 2600x
if not more
and gave better results
ashen spindle
uhh, openCL means it would also run on the gpu
cursive summit
What is 2600x
ashen spindle
obviously either are faster than cpu doing the work
stark bobcat
I havn't tried that version maybe I should
ashen spindle
on nvidia its likely not better since its not gotten an update for 2 years but if you dont get thousands of images to upscale it should still be fine
anyway, cuda/rocm features as a reason to go for nvidia, when I can get better raster for less money at all points seems a bit odd as a point
if it was equal, sure
stark bobcat
I also mentioned dlss
cursive summit
Not all that better than FSR
cursive summit
One of you claims its shit, other claims it's better
Lads, it's the typical AMD story
It's comparable, but a bit worse
stark bobcat
I'm not claiming fsr is shit
I didn't claim squat
I think fsr is just worse enough for dlss to be a selling point
cursive summit
I disagree honestly
stark bobcat
and since xess runs very poorly on amd it doesn't matter
cursive summit
I think both FSR2 and DLSS2 are comparable enough to be excluded as selling points
Your favourite RT is also not a selling point either
ashen spindle
I think both FSR2 and DLSS2 are comparable enough to be excluded as selling poin...
thats not how that works as long as dlss is still used without other options in the games
fsr could be 10x better but that doesnt matter if its not used
cursive summit
thats not how that works as long as dlss is still used without other options in ...
?
Wdym
ashen spindle
fsr can be used on nvidia
cursive summit
Yes it can?
ashen spindle
dlss cant be used on amd
cursive summit
No it can't?
ashen spindle
so if dlss is used and fsr isn't used, its not relevant if fsr is better
stark bobcat
also can anyone with a newer nvidia card tell me if you can set digital vibrancy up for specific apps
amd's equivalent is kinda meh
cursive summit
FidelityFX is cool
stark bobcat
it's funny that I end up arguing for nvidia even tho I hate them with a passion lmfao
cursive summit
Tbf your points don't make much sense
cursive summit
I get the stuff that's the most useful
And as long as AMD gives better perf with better price, I don't care if it's NV or AMD
Now if Nvidia released a 7900XTX equivalent with same exact specs and price, I'd go with Nvidia
stark bobcat
lol tough luck
cursive summit
Overall I do value Nvidia more, but only if other specifications and value match
stark bobcat
I hate nvidias business practises and actively avoid buying their products even tho I prefer them
cursive summit
However singling out "DLSS" as an advantage over AMD or "CUDA" as an advantage is borderline disingenuous
AMD has those too that work just as well even if they are a bit worse
stark bobcat
I'd pay more for less performance to have nvidia features if it wasn't such a shit company
cursive summit
The only thing here that I would somewhat agree with where Nvidia definitely has an advantage is RT
But guess what
RT fucking sucks
stark bobcat
rt does not suck
cursive summit
I would not use that feature even if I had a card with RT
stark bobcat
"tessellation suck"
cursive summit
How tf is RT not shit if cubemaps look better
stark bobcat
sure bud
cursive summit
Give me prebaked cubemaps I'd rather look at that than raytracing
stark bobcat
technological advancement bad
cursive summit
Also sacrificing over 70% of performance for "RT" I would never do
When it runs on native perf equivalent to rasterization only, then call me
cursive summit
technological advancement bad
Only if it works well
stark bobcat
talk to you again in 10 years when almost all 3d games will have rt
cursive summit
Sure
Until then there is virtually 0 point to preferentialize NV over AMD then
CUDA's cute though
I wonder if someone made a rocm port of stable diffusion
Brb need to check
stark bobcat
this argument has happened a million times already with features like tessellation
at this point one would have to admit that rt is the future
and nvidia was right
cursive summit
Don't see it
The only reason I see RT as alright is for developers to forget about prebaking the cubemaps
Which tbf look better
stark bobcat
Don't see it
you rn
cursive summit
Lel
ashen spindle
rt is not perfect on first attempt, it currently is not running great on any card even a 4090
RT is absolutely the best thing for light in the future
its really simple
cursive summit
I get that much
So call me when Nvidia figures out how to make it run as fast as rasterized games
Cause rn it's not even pure raytracing either
It's like, half raytracing
It seems stable diffusion is indeed running on rocm https://rentry.org/ayymd-stable-diffustion-v1_4-guide
No UI for it sadly, command prompt only which is sad
stark bobcat
I'd be interested in a performance benchmark
pale sigil
Cuda is not that useful for a casual gamer irrc
cursive summit
AMD Zen 4 to Feature Only 6 Core and 8 Core Variants?
What the fuck is that title
It's about Vcache but man that title is a clusterfuck
stark bobcat
the resident headline reader has logged on
cursive summit
This completely goes against Greymon's 7900 and 7950 vcache parts
Which he, assumedly, "has seen"
ashen spindle
yes and we all have seen a 5950x with v cache that lisa held up on stage
cursive summit
Is there any reason for 7600X to get Vcache I wonder
ashen spindle
products exist and sometimes never make it to retail
stark bobcat
Is there any reason for 7600X to get Vcache I wonder
same as any other cpu with it
sharp badger
What does the Ver. 4.43 indicate? 😅
I can find the Module P/N at the Memory Support list at the motherboard page but don't understand the Ver. 4.43
ashen spindle
no clue, maybe something for the website where it keeps track of it
sharp badger
no clue, maybe something for the website where it keeps track of it
Maybe
cursive summit
Thunderbolt..?
Where tf did they stuff the thunderbolt controller
Somewhere in that phone has to live a controller
For laptops, it's typically nowadays in the CPU
For AMD motherboards with TB, which are rare, I guess it lives somewhere on the motherboard
reef patrol
Where tf did they stuff the thunderbolt controller
USB C?
cursive summit
So if they found space and the extra price to integrate thunderbolt into iPhone 15
Maybe also figure out headphone jack?
reef patrol
First three lines. Come on Vexx 😛
cursive summit
What
ashen spindle
three lines too much for him
reef patrol
No but the controller is really not the issue here. iPhones have plenty of room - especially when you look at the internals and notice how much is stuff that Apple has shrunk over and over.
crisp granite
mhm, but…at the same time
This is according to an analist
Wait till we see samples or a genuine announcement
I bet someone 20 bucks iPhone would go no ports
reef patrol
Oh no. However will Apple manage to fit that in an iPhone. The tiniest phones ever.
cursive summit
So where on earth will Apple stuff theirs
reef patrol
reef patrol
Well... Because USB-C
cursive summit
Just use USB-C 3.2?
reef patrol
Why limit yourself? This way they can keep doing their apple thing.
cursive summit
Why the thunderbolt
ashen spindle
bruh you found a image from over 10 years ago
thunderbolt is part of the USB spec now thats why
cursive summit
Only with USB4
USB3 is still separate from Thunderbolt
I can find images from 2017 with the controller still having its own space on the motherboard for Thunderbolt 3
With Thunderbolt 4, the controller for Intel CPUs is integrated into the CPU
So, where's the iPhone 15s controller going to be
wheat plume
Where tf did they stuff the thunderbolt controller
the space the SIM tray used to take up, id imagine
ashen spindle
have you considered the thunderbolt controller has parts that the usb controller already has so they likely just add it to their m3 or w/e its called
wheat plume
ooh
cursive summit
I highly doubt Intel would allow them to integrate Thunderbolt into M3
cursive summit
At that point AMD would also have it
ashen spindle
intel gave the thunderbolt spec to USB
cursive summit
How come AMD has nearly no thunderbolt 3 motherboards or laptop connectors
Just source it to AMD too then, fine them royalties
ashen spindle
what
cursive summit
Apple is just as much a laptop competitor as much as AMD is
Giving Apple the Thunderbolt spec to integrate into M3 but not to AMD is weird
wheat plume
cause Apple make more money, Id imagine
stark bobcat
what quintosh wrote
stark bobcat
😩
ashen spindle
at this rate I dont even know if I mix up things because you jump from one place to another
stark bobcat
"at least USB 3.2" r u sure?
astral haven
what do you mean with unstable system first off
In my experience and the experience of a few others in the overclocking server, amd driver's loaded will speed up dram errors
If you need 4 hours to get an error on Nvidia it'll take 1-2 with a Radeon card
cursive summit
On the macbooks
Wait, m1 and m2 macbooks have TB3?
ashen spindle
sure overclocking, but on stock?
astral haven
Giving Apple the Thunderbolt spec to integrate into M3 but not to AMD is weird
The thunderbolt spec is a certification program with Intel
Neither apple or amd are willing to go through with it
astral haven
sure overclocking, but on stock?
Some xmps are unstable
wheat plume
this fucking comment
cursive summit
Isn't USB4 on TB4
wheat plume
"USB C IS ONYL FOR CHARGING LOL"
stark bobcat
this fucking comment
stop worrying about what random people say
astral haven
Isn't USB4 on TB4
Tb4 and tb3 are electrically identical it's just a different cert process
And redriver is not controller
reef patrol
It's "likely a TB3 redriver"
Yep. Wanted to find something a bit more modern for reference. 🙂
astral haven
What controls the TB3 on macbooks
The CPU
Just like tiger lake
reef patrol
I was half expecting TB to be on the M chip at this point since Apple loves stacking like it's a damn skyscraper. But no 😄
astral haven
And ice lake
cursive summit
M1 and M2 have support for thunderbolt?
astral haven
I was half expecting TB to be on the M chip at this point since Apple loves stac...
No it is built in
ashen spindle
redriver is not a controller
cursive summit
How'd they even get that
astral haven
M1 and M2 have support for thunderbolt?
Support yes but they don't get them certified
reef patrol
redriver is not a controller
I was not entirely sure - Are they like signal boosters or for voltage?
cursive summit
Support yes but they don't get them certified
And yet they still list them as thunderbolt in specs?
astral haven
And yet they still list them as thunderbolt in specs?
Since when?
ashen spindle
I was not entirely sure - Are they like signal boosters or for voltage?
assuming its like a usb redriver yea, makes the signal go farther and so
astral haven
Oh so they do
ashen spindle
and removes jitter etc. but idk the exact specs for a TB redriver
astral haven
Interesting
That means they are paying Intel the cent or two to put the name on
ashen spindle
are you sure with usb4 they still have to pay intel?
stark bobcat
they are basically saying usb4=tb3 to me
cursive summit
I still have a major complaint with AMD laptops not having Thunderbolt
stark bobcat
usb4/tb3
astral haven
are you sure with usb4 they still have to pay intel?
It's just the name they have to pay for
Intel gives away the electrical spec for free but the name is trademarked
ashen spindle
ah
astral haven
They also will only certify a tb4 laptop if it has some Intel specific security features
wheat plume
thats a pretty clever marketing then......no one will know your device has thunderbolt, even if you do, because you didnt pay for the name
Intel do a smart
stark bobcat
no one cares I think
astral haven
So that's why everything is tb3 certified at best even tho tb4 and tb3 are nearly identical
astral haven
thats a pretty clever marketing then......no one will know your device has thund...
It's a legal requirement of trademark
They are legally obligated to protect it
It just happens to provide them a benefit
wheat plume
so, you cant make a device with a thunderbolt port and sell it, but not call it a thunderbolt port so you dot have to pay?
astral haven
I still have a major complaint with AMD laptops not having Thunderbolt
There are plenty that have them now
astral haven
so, you cant make a device with a thunderbolt port and sell it, but not call it ...
Yes it's called USB 4
wheat plume
if AMD added a TB port to their laptop but never mention the word thunderbolt...would they get in trouble?
cursive summit
With USB4 no
But then again I barely know of any AMD laptops with USB4 to begin with
wheat plume
usb4 is not the exact same though, is it?
astral haven
usb4 is not the exact same though, is it?
If you meet the Microsoft USB 4 requirements it is identical
cursive summit
USB4 might have come out already
But I haven't been hunting for a laptop so I guess I'm not up to date
stark bobcat
usb4 ≈ tb3
cursive summit
But a TB3 connector on AMD laptops is completely alien to me
wheat plume
If you meet the Microsoft USB 4 requirements it is identical
ok, so what if AMD did this, it was literally exactly a thunderbolt port in every way possible. but they never market the device as having one, could they get in trouble?
stark bobcat
tb3 connector?
astral haven
ok, so what if AMD did this, it was literally exactly a thunderbolt port in ever...
Of course not
cursive summit
tb3 connector?
TB3 support with no USB4
AMD just doesn't have laptops that I know that support that
cursive summit
eGPU
Extending product lifetime
Fast connectivity as well I guess
But mostly eGPU
stark bobcat
but can't u do the same thing with usb4?
cursive summit
You can, now
But before USB4 AMD never did a TB3 laptop
I don't at all remember a single laptop with TB3 connectivity
stark bobcat
yeah but like who cares now?
cursive summit
That was a major strike against their laptops back then
Cause they just wouldn't last as long as Intel's
astral haven
TB3 support with no USB4
That's not possible
cursive summit
Then again I also don't know if AMD has USB4 laptops yet either
cursive summit
That's not possible
Of course it is
astral haven
Then again I also don't know if AMD has USB4 laptops yet either <:dogekek:846285...
They do
astral haven
Of course it is
No it's not
stark bobcat
I have one of those and honestly this thing will last me exactly the same amount of time as if it had tb3
I do not need tb3
astral haven
The requirements for USB 4 are lower than tb3
cursive summit
No it's not
Do it the same exact way Apple has done with thunderbolt?
AMD hasn't ever done that
Which was really damn unappealing for me as a laptop shopper
astral haven
Why would AMD go out of their way to give money to Intel???
stark bobcat
they have usb4?
stark bobcat
it does not matter anymore
cursive summit
But back then it made a lot of sense
astral haven
Like you said, it's literally cents
Cents per laptop still adds up
cursive summit
And they didn't do it
stark bobcat
you aren't buying a laptop yesterday
astral haven
BEFORE USB4
No
In talking the amount of money to convert a USB 4 port into a USB 4/tb3 port
You pay a few cents per laptop to intel
And it provides no technological advantage
cursive summit
Sure
I don't at all argue with that
But before USB4, when Intel was brandishing TB3 ports and AMD was left with just USB 3.2 at best, it was a horrid situation
Weird that they never paid Intel some cash to get TB3 cert
stark bobcat
what do u use thunderbolt for?
cursive summit
A lot of things
stark bobcat
example?
astral haven
These 3 laptops have thunderbolt 3 / USB 4
astral haven
4 out of 1642?
Yes amd has only done it in the last few years
stark bobcat
It's mostly for laptop docks
yeah that seem pretty niche to me
maybe I'm out of touch
astral haven
That sounds like USB4
Thunderbolt vs USB4 is identical
astral haven
yeah that seem pretty niche to me
What
cursive summit
Yes amd has only done it in the last few years
Yeah it's USB4
Not Thunderbolt 3
wheat plume
Running TRIM on Steam Deck doesnt have a progress bar... so idk how long its got left
stark bobcat
It's mostly for laptop docks
wait maybe idk what u actually mean can u send a link?
astral haven
Holy crap @cursive summit there's no difference
cursive summit
Are you people dense
I never said there is a difference
This whole time I said that AMD never did TB3 before USB4
astral haven
wait maybe idk what u actually mean can u send a link?
cursive summit
Which clearly they never did
astral haven
This whole time I said that AMD never did TB3 before USB4
Who cares?
stark bobcat
ahhh ic I was thinking of smth else
cursive summit
Who cares?
I care
astral haven
I care <:dogekek:846285268289323069>
Why?
stark bobcat
tb docks do seems useful
cursive summit
Why?
Cause I wanted an AMD laptop in 2021, and they had no TB3s, so now I have a shitty Intel Dell with TB4 that sucks ass
astral haven
Amd didn't make any good laptop chips before USB 4 was certified
cursive summit
That's why I care
cursive summit
Amd didn't make any good laptop chips before USB 4 was certified
They released 5000 and 6000 processors for mobile?
astral haven
Ryzen laptops up to 3k we're complete ass
stark bobcat
intel also didn't make any good laptop chips in that time lol
astral haven
They released 5000 and 6000 processors for mobile?
4k and up had USB 4 options
cursive summit
Well clearly, they did not
astral haven
intel also didn't make any good laptop chips in that time lol
They had better options
cursive summit
Intel had good chips starting with 11th gen
stark bobcat
yeah better but they were still ass
astral haven
Well clearly, they did not
🤷♂️ AMD also didn't make very many chips
stark bobcat
happy with my 4800u laptop
cursive summit
🤷♂️ AMD also didn't make very many chips
And the few they made, were good
5500U was insane
astral haven
5000 has support for USB 4
cursive summit
None of those laptops had USB4
astral haven
It's just no laptop vendors made it
cursive summit
And that is a problem
ashen spindle
amd cpu can do it
laptop makers wont do it
"why didnt amd do it"
astral haven
That may be amds fault for not making any reference boards but 🤷♂️ amd has always been out of touch
astral haven
happy with my 4800u laptop
And my Intel 4th gen laptop is faster thanks to having egpu support
astral haven
Is that because you have a PC?
Because the advantage of an egpu is you literally don't need a pc
stark bobcat
I mean I would never replace my pc with a laptop
cursive summit
I don't see why not
astral haven
I mean I would never replace my pc with a laptop
Which is a mindset that will be broken eventually
stark bobcat
nah I prefer for my cpu not to be thermally constrained
cursive summit
With thunderbolt you can get an external GPU and get it connected to external display
stark bobcat
everything I play is cpu bound
astral haven
nah I prefer for my cpu not to be thermally constrained
Get a better laptop
stark bobcat
nah laptops r ass
astral haven
happy with my 4800u laptop
Because you buy shitty laptops as proven here
astral haven
nah laptops r ass
So why say this?
stark bobcat
I don't need to spend more money for exactly the same thing
astral haven
Look fam you can't have it both ways
stark bobcat
So why say this?
cuz I do not need a laptop as desktop replacement more cost for the same thing
at best
astral haven
So laptops aren't ass you just bought a bad one...
cursive summit
Opinion is wrong, clearly
astral haven
nah laptops r ass
So this is incorrect
stark bobcat
bruh
astral haven
You can't have it both ways fam
cursive summit
I think what our friend artorias is trying to say here is
cursive summit
PCs are better at productivity and more comfortable to use than laptops
stark bobcat
that was my way of expressing it
cursive summit
Not, "laptops are shit"
astral haven
I just do not like laptops
And I maintain that's because you haven't used a good laptop experience
stark bobcat
I do not want a good laptop experience what is so hard to understand?
I need enough
astral haven
I do not want a good laptop experience what is so hard to understand?
How do you know that when you haven't tried it...
stark bobcat
I can go to a store and try any laptop
and I know I don't need it
I have a perfectly good pc
stark bobcat
I do not need to know
do u need to know what poop tastes like to know u don't want it?
astral haven
I can go to a store and try any laptop
And they sure as heck don't let you try out the laptops when docked with an egpu lmao
astral haven
what is so hard to understand: I DO NOT WANT IT
How can you know that when you don't know what it is
stark bobcat
do u need to know what poop tastes like to know u don't want it?
see this
astral haven
You know what poop is tho
stark bobcat
I know what a laptop is
astral haven
I know what a laptop is
No you don't
stark bobcat
astral haven
There is not a single person in the world who groks laptop
You may have a base level understanding of how you use laptop
But that's not a full understanding
Poop isn't hard
It was food but now all the nutrition is removed and extra body waste is added
stark bobcat
I understand that a laptop with an egpu is cool and definitely right for some people
I just do not care
cursive summit
Is carmonben in trolling mood today
astral haven
I just do not care
Thats not what you said before which is why I was arguing against you
I can understand that pov
👍
cursive summit
Tbf I'd also throw in a curveball and say that laptops are shit for productivity
astral haven
Laptops are identical to desktops for productivity if you pay enough
cursive summit
Fair assessment, especially if you add displays on top
Still, they are weaker than PCs and not as good for gamers
astral haven
But the laptop will always have the scram advantage
cursive summit
Plus the built in displays are too small to be usable
astral haven
Plus the built in displays are too small to be usable
A small screen that you can use while away from power is better than a large screen that you can't use
And you can absolutely use the laptop with a large screen no problemo
sharp badger
Yeah quite usable for some people to have a portable ''workstation''
astral haven
Still, they are weaker than PCs and not as good for gamers
You have to pay a lot for a PC that's faster than the laptop
cursive summit
You have to pay a lot for a PC that's faster than the laptop
Uhh
No?
Laptops have never been faster than a PC of the same price
astral haven
More precisely
You need to pay a lot more for a sufficient laptop+ a powerful PC then a powerful laptop when used as an egpu
astral haven
Laptops have never been faster than a PC of the same price
If you need to get a laptop regardless
And it needs to be a laptop of some capability
It's cheaper to get the extra 200 for thunderbolt and an EGPU
sharp badger
Well a SFF could be a viable solution with a ''portable'' setup but it's such a niche use case
astral haven
Well a SFF could be a viable solution with a ''portable'' setup but it's such a ...
I've had plenty of friends who tried that experiment and it is simply not as practical
The company I work for regularly deploys laptops to replace desktops
sharp badger
I've had plenty of friends who tried that experiment and it is simply not as pra...
Yeah some can do it but it's very niche
astral haven
Yeah some can do it but it's very niche
The thing is though it's generally not that much cheaper than a laptop
And generally worse
Cuz built-in GPU on SFF makes it huge
And EGPU on SFF isn't as good as EGPU on laptop unless you get the minisforum
sharp badger
The thing is though it's generally not that much cheaper than a laptop
And gener...
Yeah laptops are getting better
sharp badger
Cuz built-in GPU on SFF makes it huge
And EGPU on SFF isn't as good as EGPU on l...
Yep but would be interesting to see if AMD with their new G series or with Intel Meteor lake would make it doable to start using SFF cases
astral haven
God if only Intel would fix their drivers
And AMD would manufacture more chips
sharp badger
But still very niche and Laptops are getting good
astral haven
I've been helping One of my friends decide on a laptop for his business
And holy god the AMD options are so expensive
A normal laptop should not cost more than a surface pro of about the same capabilities
That's just a complete travesty
sharp badger
Yeah
cursive summit
I've been helping One of my friends decide on a laptop for his business
And holy...
What
AMD has cheaper laptops than Intel
sharp badger
The Macbooks are good though
sharp badger
Well it depends on the work though
cursive summit
AMD has always had cheaper laptops
sharp badger
The use can vary so much
astral haven
AMD has cheaper laptops than Intel
He needs either dgpu or dock support
cursive summit
Intel ones are damn overpriced, especially for "ultra premium"
Ok so
Get a 1000$ Zephyrus with RTX 3060 and a 5900HS?
astral haven
Get a 1000$ Zephyrus with RTX 3060 and a 5900HS?
Over budget
astral haven
And not sufficiently repairable for a business machine
cursive summit
If 1000$ is too expensive for dgpu then I have no clue what your partner's business is even remotely about
CAD people spend thousands for their shit
astral haven
If 1000$ is too expensive for dgpu then I have no clue what your partner's busin...
He just needs alot of displays
He monitors a number of signals and video streams
He's already aware that literally everything can decode all the signals he needs, it's really about the display count
He also wants 8 cores because his current 6 core does start to bog down
cursive summit
How about... a PC
astral haven
How about... a PC
He needs to scram to work often
Frequently in the middle of the night
crimson burrow
I wanna try getting some ones opinion on this, does anyone know know a really good headset to buy?
astral haven
I wanna try getting some ones opinion on this, does anyone know know a really go...
Valve index
cursive summit
He needs to scram to work often
I heard of wireless displays nowadays
sharp badger
Budget?
cursive summit
That sounds like something your friend would need
astral haven
like headphones and a mic?
Sennheiser game one, mh752
sharp badger
Modmic works wonders with a lot of Hifi headsets
astral haven
I heard of wireless displays nowadays
He needs to verify the quality of the video streams themselves not the wireless display codec
cursive summit
I can't say that's bad for headsets, but I'd much rather just get headphones and a standalone microphone
cursive summit
He needs to verify the quality of the video streams themselves not the wireless ...
I can't say understand
crimson burrow
Budget?
so what I did was a list, a Artisen Hien, a Deathadder v3 Pro, and a Wooting 2 HE, and my budget is 1,465
in american
cursive summit
1,465$ for a headset?
astral haven
I can't say understand
His job is verifying there's no glitches in a TV signal, so putting a glitchy wireless codec that compresses the signal is a no go
cursive summit
His job is verifying there's no glitches in a TV signal, so putting a glitchy wi...
I'm glad we can agree that wireless is shit
marsh glade
I can't say that's bad for headsets, but I'd much rather just get headphones and...
I see this question about what headset is best and instead of answering that, I'm going to derail the conversation and unabashedly state that headsets are definitely better than standalone mics because I can use my headset while I'm on the toilet.
crimson burrow
I just wanna find a really good headset and mic to buy sperate or together, as long as I sound good and the sound quality is really good
cursive summit
I see this question about what headset is best and instead of answering that, I'...
You animal
astral haven
I'm glad we can agree that wireless is shit <:dogekek:846285268289323069>
Well anything that is pro gear (and good) needs a display connection to begin with so the only option is software which is shit
crimson burrow
I see this question about what headset is best and instead of answering that, I'...
I mean
you have a point
astral haven
I just wanna find a really good headset and mic to buy sperate or together, as l...
Yes but how much do you care?
Is it just games?
Or do you also want it to sound good in music?
Wireless?
There's a billion options
sharp badger
Yeah
stark bobcat
I see this question about what headset is best and instead of answering that, I'...
my sisters boyfriend does the same thing
no cap
wireless headset users
crimson burrow
Yes but how much do you care?
Is it just games?
Or do you also want it to sound ...
games and music, and as cool as wireless is it has less sound quality and mic quality is godawful
so wired for me
cursive summit
games and music, and as cool as wireless is it has less sound quality and mic qu...
For games and music I'd not go wireless or headset
How about you get proper headphones for hifi audio and a modmic
Or just a standalone microphone
astral haven
I'd avoid modmic
cursive summit
There are some great headphones out there that are far better than headsets
astral haven
Modmic gets rekt by Sennheiser built in mic
astral haven
There are some great headphones out there that are far better than headsets
Depends on the headset lel
cursive summit
There's a headset better than susvaras?
crimson burrow
yeah I know there's tons of choices
astral haven
There's a headset better than susvaras?
Sus isn't that great lel
cursive summit
Still greater than headsets my man
astral haven
Solidly arguable that 38x is better
And especially if you don't buy an amp
Sus ampless is yikes compared to the stuff designed for no amps
cursive summit
Now you're talking out of your bosom my man
astral haven
yeah I know there's tons of choices
Anyways pick a specific dollar amount
crimson burrow
Anyways pick a specific dollar amount
hmmm
latent mural
What If you use a headphone that is supposed to be used with a amp without one
astral haven
What If you use a headphone that is supposed to be used with a amp without one
Depends
But hifiman headphones it does impact the sound significantly
crimson burrow
Anyways pick a specific dollar amount
anything below 450 and around
cursive summit
Can you do a dedicated microphone?
latent mural
Depends
But hifiman headphones it does impact the sound significantly
Hmm
astral haven
anything below 450 and around
Open back or closed (how noisy is your room?)
cursive summit
A lot better recording quality on dedicated microphones
crimson burrow
Can you do a dedicated microphone?
sure
cursive summit
And obviously open or closed back
sharp badger
Soundquality will usually suffer without an amp
stark bobcat
if he wants a headset recommend him a headset
cursive summit
if he wants a headset recommend him a headset
And you should stay out of conversations
astral haven
Soundquality will usually suffer without an amp
Highly depends
crimson burrow
I guess I'll go closed back since I like being immerse
stark bobcat
And you should stay out of conversations
why
sharp badger
Highly depends
Yeah
latent mural
Soundquality will usually suffer without an amp
Can you suggest a amp?
astral haven
I guess I'll go closed back since I like being immerse
Open back is generally more immersive
crimson burrow
Open back is generally more immersive
really?
astral haven
Can you suggest a amp?
Cx31993
crimson burrow
huh neat
stark bobcat
Your takes are bad <:dogekek:846285268289323069>
uhhhhh I'd say that is projecting
cursive summit
Do you like bass my bud?@crimson burrow
astral haven
really?
Yep
It costs more than you can afford to get closed back sound as immersive as the $200 560s
crimson burrow
Do you like bass my bud?<@609477317277909024>
yeah it's cool
astral haven
AliExpress my guy
cursive summit
Especially from Drop since HD 6XX rn is on discount
latent mural
AliExpress my guy
BRUHHH
cursive summit
What's currently good in mic department in drop
latent mural
Suggest something else lol
astral haven
I mean, you can't go wrong with HD600s
The Sennheiser are not bass heavy
cursive summit
They are not but have plenty
astral haven
Suggest something else lol
Apple USB c dongle but it only works on PC or apple
cursive summit
I'd also say AKG but Sennheiser has more than AKG's
latent mural
Apple USB c dongle but it only works on PC or apple
what
crimson burrow
so a type of headphone I really want is one with a really good mic and all around good for sounds in general like hearing some ones foot steps in a game
sharp badger
https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-dac-plus/
https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/
Or something from Topping
https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/edition-xs.html
This is what i'm looking for atm. i've got a seperate mic so
crimson burrow
and the mic can be separate if it has to be
latent mural
so a type of headphone I really want is one with a really good mic and all aroun...
a good mic can't be expected from a headset
astral haven
so a type of headphone I really want is one with a really good mic and all aroun...
Look at the Samson go mic portable for your mic
cursive summit
https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-dac-plus/
https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/...
No need
latent mural
most aren't terrible but not the best either
astral haven
a good mic can't be expected from a headset
Literally everything Sennheiser wired is good
final flame
Sennheiser has a lot of bad wired and wireless products lol
astral haven
Sennheiser has a lot of bad wired and wireless products lol
Not wired headset mics
astral haven
Here you go
Oh God that's terrible
cursive summit
Oh God that's terrible
Your audio opinion is literally terrible
stark bobcat
funny how audio is one of the most divisive subjects on this server
astral haven
Your audio opinion is literally terrible
You can't handle the truth
fluid cave
is there currently a cheap smaller laptop on sale? im really looking for a new laptop for online banking - the last one i bought took ages to even power up - one of those max screen size and buy for cheapest price 
stark bobcat
just let people enjoy things
fluid cave
im a tech noob sadly
cursive summit
You can't handle the truth
If the truth means the headphones sound like shit then I'd rather not hear the truth and have enjoyable audio experience
latent mural
@fluid cave what will you be doing on it
cursive summit
is there currently a cheap smaller laptop on sale? im really looking for a new l...
How about.. your phone?
stark bobcat
is there currently a cheap smaller laptop on sale? im really looking for a new l...
it's hard to know what is on sale when we don't even know where u are luckily we do know when you are
latent mural
<@439385571098361856> what will you be doing on it
Nvm
astral haven
If the truth means the headphones sound like shit then I'd rather not hear the t...
Yea so why recommend spending $200 extra from a website known to have poor warranty