🔌│tech

[ashen spindle]

nah, valhalla was always a title that made amd look a lot better, so likely that nvidia just was lacking one thing

[fickle ore]

Does it work on my gtx 1060 tho?

[ashen spindle]

since aside from tht 24% the rest is lower

[fickle ore]

If it's just stupid optimizations then that's boring. If they changed how the driver operates that'd be amazing.

[ashen spindle]

like this is how valhalla was before, ver unusal for nvidia at 4k

[cursive summit]

Also no mention that the driver works with 20 series or down, weirdly

Just for 30

[fickle ore]

RIP. just RTX and later

[ashen spindle]

like the results in valhalla just showed there was an outlier for nvidia they seemed to fix

and no obviously the driver is for all cards they still support aka maxwell and kepler still

well, half of kepler or so but still

[ashen spindle]

not just rtx series

?

[fickle ore]

1060 not RTX ;#

[ashen spindle]

thats marketing

its not going to be 24% for you so they just dont mention it

doesnt change they are putting out driver for 700 series still and its all the same driver

[fickle ore]

I don't even play these games. Just want proper dx12 perf not the fkd up nvidia way of doing it 😛

[astral haven]

Lol wut

[fickle ore]

And proper ReBar too

[ashen spindle]

oh good you're hear, you two have fun talking about dx12 on nvidia, I'm getting food lmfao

[fickle ore]

Im gonna go eat lel

[astral haven]

Yea the only fake implementations Nvidia and amd have on dx12 are pre Maxwell and gcn 1 respectively

Everything else is direct hardware access

[fickle ore]

Any sources for them changing their (dx11) based driver not multithread dx12 anymore? It used to, which is why AMD was faster on dx12. The downside for AMD was vastly worse dx11 perf.

[astral haven]

What

[thick elk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ZqYaPXxas
TLDR: It's only useful if the frame rate you reach without dlss3 is at most half the refresh rate, and you can deal with the artefacts.

[fickle ore]

Just google what hallock said about it a year or so ago

[astral haven]

yea marketing bs

amd has never been better at dx12 than nvidia
period
just look at the compute of the cards vs the perf
what amd does have is their dx12 implementation is less screwed up vs their dx11 implementation

[shadow minnow]

Can even stop and play music in sleep on MacBook through AirPods though can’t airplay

[thick elk]

DX11 / OGL has more room for drivers to matter as you are translating higher level calls to something the gpu understands, vs dx12/vulkan.

[astral haven]

yuppers

[thick elk]

It shows that DXVK can often outperform the gpu drivers by translating to vulkan

[astral haven]

thats why dx12 is really out of the hands of the drivers

and vk

games that are primarily optimized around consoles are also gonna have an inherent advantage on dx12 thanks to the xbox

[ashen spindle]

though that does put in question how you get 24% in valhalla when its just driver changes

[thick elk]

Less room does not mean drivers do nothing, something must have caused problems before

[astral haven]

yup

drivers are allowed to manually intercept calls

could be a specific dx feature that was using a bunch of gpu cycles that when translated to a different set of instructions, works better

[ashen spindle]

cyberpunk is also 20% at 1080p and they worked a long time with cdpr so makes you wonder how that wasn't caught earlier imo

unlike valhalla where they optimized it with amd since its also a console game

[astral haven]

they were talking about cpu optimization

so its very possible they were making changes to the threading of the draw call handling

they specifically mention shader compilation which is fully done in software afaik

[crimson wigeon]

Yearp, drivers can still do whatever they want to shaders, including replacing them entirely

[astral haven]

well
they are allowed to do that, but by default it just gets directly sent to the hardware once its compiled

the fact that the worse gpus are getting better improvements makes me think its a fixed cost item

these optimizations are probably game specific, and likely apply to all fl12 gpus

[fickle ore]

Untrue.

[astral haven]

🤷 its a simple fact fam

[thick elk]

GCN was definitely architecturally better at async compute and dx12/vk at the time

[astral haven]

yep

the hardware was better

the drivers were holding them back in dx11

[fickle ore]

I guess facts only exists when some people tell them 😛

[astral haven]

i think you are simply misunderstanding what im saying

[fickle ore]

Or the other way around...

[astral haven]

i made the claim and you were just disagreeing with it

i dont misunderstand what i meant, I just may not have worded it in a way you understand

[fickle ore]

X_x

[astral haven]

like look at vega 64 vs 1080

best case scenario they are about even in games

yet the vega 64 has a solid 25% lead in both raw compute and memory bandwidth

and in more normal games the 64 kinda gets spanked...

the vega 64 has faster compute than a 1080ti and the same speed memory

its actually embarrassing how bad gcn is at running games relative to the hardware capabilities

[fickle ore]

Here. This is also the reason why dx12 performance on AMD has less overhead. Because a single thread is feeding the API, and the API handless the threading rather than driver. Maybe they have/will figured a way to flip/flop between API's on Nvidia side lately.

Didn't want to spend more time finding a more modern source

[astral haven]

this statement makes no reference to anything applying to dx12

[fickle ore]

It's not changed

Yeah it pertains to dx12

[astral haven]

[citation needed]

and besides that doesnt change my point

regardless how good amd is at tooting their horn, their hardware is faster and their results are slower
since the hardware is what it is, the only reasonable conclusion is the drivers are screwed up

[fickle ore]

Nah, their drivers are better for dx12 and worse for dx11. technically they have less overhead on dx11 too but they're way bound by draw call perf by not multithreading since dx11 does not have proper multithreading within API level

[astral haven]

dag

[fickle ore]

Ben

[astral haven]

the vega 64 has more compute power than a 1080ti
yet it performs the same as a 1080 in dx12

[fickle ore]

I'm not really in the mood of comparing architectures lol

Let's just leave it, topic stupod

[astral haven]

1080ti : FP32 (float) performance
11.34 TFLOPS

vega 64 : FP32 (float) performance
12.66 TFLOPS

this really is not hard to follow

[fickle ore]

I'm not saying AMD beats nvidia on dx12 fps benches or anything like that. Just that their way of handling it is superior (efficiency/overhead) wise to the NV method. NV with their architecture/software optimizations can sure win vs AMD. Just talking strictly the way the drivers handle data.

But I figured this new Driver would have improved things on NV side

[astral haven]

i have provided numerical proof that that is horseshit

[fickle ore]

Which is why I started talking abt it

[fickle ore]

You have random numbers that are not normalized for architecture, optimization, for power and frequency levels. What you have is basically nothing. But enough of this! 😄

[astral haven]

Ben

amds hardware is better in every measureable metric and they perform worse in games
Dag
amd drivers better
Ben
citation needed
Dag
u dum

[fickle ore]

Ben and Dag 🎉

Went for CCA CRA Weiß with mic! ggs

15$

[astral haven]

i chose the + since im not so into upper bass/ lowe mid bump in iems

[fickle ore]

Oh crap, I meant to go for the + too. Gotta cancel this and order the cra+

Damn ugly tho, gold :puke:

[astral haven]

Meh
Looks are whatever imo

The az09 blue LEDs are annoying to photograph lel

oh also the stock eartips were very unpleasant for me, you may want to plan on buying replacements

[fickle ore]

Yea this hobby seems complicated lol

Also ordered KZ PR1's lol

couldn't decide

[astral haven]

spensiv

lmk how they compare

[fickle ore]

70$

[astral haven]

for kz that is spensiv

[wheat plume]

my KZs were 23 euro

[fickle ore]

O wait, Hi-Fi variant is 91$. I dont like bassy 😄

[astral haven]

kz is sharp by default tho

[fickle ore]

hmm

[astral haven]

maybe theyve changed

[stark bobcat]

Kz is bad by default

[wintry ice]

<@&375234916776017933>, I'd like to poll this community about how they find the current analog mode. Am I OK to do so?

[marsh glade]

For what purpose?

[astral haven]

dont disagree lel

[fair gull]

the github post they made on the current way being too fiddly and that there should be a 2 button mode where the first pressed axis determines the direction and a second one only the amount its pressed

thats the gist of it

[astral haven]

that seems odd imo

I can understand having modifier keys as analog modifiers for other keys
eg you set a curve on the shift key where your wasd keys get multiplied by between 1 and .25 for example depending on how far you press it

[stark bobcat]

that would also something I could see be cool but most games already use tons of buttons at least the ones I play

[astral haven]

yea but basically you have it just be a replacement for the sneak key

[stark bobcat]

I mean I can see that working for elden ring but that game also has a dedicated sneak button

[astral haven]

yea
and this is just an improvement on that

[stark bobcat]

not exactly this would make you walk

elden ring sneak makes you crouch

[astral haven]

exactly

so you can move slowly without explicitly crouching

[stark bobcat]

yeah but crouching still does more than just slowwalking

[astral haven]

think csgo walk key

[stark bobcat]

I know but again crouching also has its utility

[astral haven]

yea

crouching and walking in csgo are separate keys

you could outright replace the walk key with an analog modifier in csgo

[wheat plume]

I bet this is the main reason Apple removed the sim tray

[astral haven]

?

[ashen spindle]

that doesnt even make sense

[astral haven]

why would esim change that in any way?

[wheat plume]

Although most Apple users will never switch anyway

[ashen spindle]

you know you can just get a sim card from your provider if you were to change

[astral haven]

or a qr code

[wheat plume]

they convert eSim to real sim?

[frozen ingot]

I mean, doesn't android phones have e-sim these days?

[ashen spindle]

its the same as if you would break or loose one

that too in some parts

[wheat plume]

some do

[astral haven]

if your android has esim you just scan the qr code

[frozen ingot]

I switched twice

[wheat plume]

to android and back?

xd

[astral haven]

and no they just give you a sim attached your account

[frozen ingot]

iphone to android, then back to iphone, then to android again

now back on iphone again

[wheat plume]

ooff

[frozen ingot]

no idea what am gonna switch to next tbh, phones are too fuckin expensive nowadays

[astral haven]

🤷 seems like a pain but whatevs

[umbral knot]

I switched from an iphone 5 to I think it was the samsung s8 when it came out and I've been on android ever since

[wheat plume]

Only if you care about flagships

[reef patrol]

Your sim card isn't your phone number.

[wheat plume]

Its what handles the IMEI though

[ashen spindle]

anyway making it esim will just force androids and providers to fully support it so that's a net benefit in the end imo

[frozen ingot]

unfortunately you kinda have to go flagship if you want the best cameras possible

[astral haven]

it is in fact not

[wheat plume]

o?

[astral haven]

imei is phone hardware only

[wheat plume]

ooh

[astral haven]

https://onomondo.com/resource-hub/iccid-number-explained/#:~:text=over the API.-,ICCID%2C IMSI%2C and IMEI,-It’s pretty easy

[thick elk]

The only thing I really fear with e-sim is the terms providers may negociate around it.

or in case of apple, oh this provider does not sell Apple devices, no e-sim for you.

besides that there is little reason to have physical sim cards

[wheat plume]

Ive never seen a provider NOT sell Apple Devices

they are always the only ones on display in Ireland

[ashen spindle]

yeah but providers who will not server to apple will miss out on so much money

[wheat plume]

well, not on display, but not just placeholder models

[ashen spindle]

hence why its for once something good that apple is forcing to happen imo

[thick elk]

Thing is sim-only is a thing, not everyone may always want to do bundled deals, especially in countries where there is little incentive for them anywy.

[wheat plume]

Typical Irish phone shop experience:

1. Phones along the wall, that is where they put the Android phones that are just models and not the real phone
2. The stands in the middle with all the iPhones they sell that are actually phones so you can use them and try them out
3. They might have some Samsung phones you can interact with too but not always

[ashen spindle]

you cant really be forced into the bundled deals here so that wont matter or change with this

[thick elk]

I just fear apple may use it as something to hold over providers.
As well as providers possibly negociating deals that limit the number of carriers / allow for single carrier only when carrier locked, things like that.

[wheat plume]

Or make Apple data plans and not allow other eSIM plans to work

[thick elk]

Still I do think the move is a good thing

[ashen spindle]

thats not how esims work but ok

[astral haven]

thats the vendor's faults not apple
the vendors need to provide the demo devices if they want there to be demo devices

[frozen ingot]

I wish shops would actually have some good android phones on display and not just fookin assmung all the time

[wheat plume]

IKR .-.

[shadow minnow]

People but more expensive iPhones than android phones

[astral haven]

i tried out the op7 in store no problem

[frozen ingot]

but its what people have been deluding themselves into thinking that's what they want

[wheat plume]

Ive seen a lots of Xiaomi and OPPO phones on display in Romania when I was there

and a lot of Huawei in Norway

[frozen ingot]

let me try out an xperia or something

[frozen ingot]

eww

[shadow minnow]

In total android sells more but with iPhones profit per model is many times higher so it makes sense they get displayed way more

[frozen ingot]

keep that ccp tech far away from me

[wheat plume]

The last time I went to the phone shop to get help with my sim card not activating on my new phone
The first thing the sales person did was try to sell me an iPhone instead
They didnt even try to fix the problem with the phone I just got a day ago until I declined them

[ashen spindle]

well obviously

thats how they make money

[shadow minnow]

Amogus plushies are for free if you are liked by ccp, @misty saffron can confirm

[frozen ingot]

I don't really mind android as an OS, I do mind it being run by and packed with googles prying eyes though

[wheat plume]

GrapheneOS

Ironically, only runs on Pixel phones!

[frozen ingot]

that involves work though

[wheat plume]

cause they are the most hardware secure

[frozen ingot]

and yeah you have to give google money for a pixel phone

[thick elk]

No rather because google upstreams a lot making it easier to develop.

not because of hardware security per se

[wheat plume]

I assume the Pixel Tablet will use their G2 CPU?

[wheat plume]

Titan security chip is really neat

its safe against even a lot of physical attacks

[frozen ingot]

I don't really trust apple either but at least I don't have to be reminded by my iphone how much it stalks me all the time

google be like "you visited this location last time 47 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes and 11 seconds ago, it was rainy and you were in a bad mood"

[wheat plume]

It still does though

LOL

[shadow minnow]

But the main thing with displaying phones is, you display per model and usually not many phones. Let’s say you have 100 brands that each sell 100 phones per model, and then one brand that has less models but sells 10000 per model. The one brand makes most sense to display really, especially since their models are more expensive and thus you profit more

[frozen ingot]

that's kinda creepy af but uhh.. thanks google?

[shadow minnow]

Apple at least doesn’t sell the data for now

And doesn’t tell you they have it so you have false sense of security

[wheat plume]

Yeah, they do though

[shadow minnow]

Where and to who?

That would be a huge lawsuit

[wheat plume]

Didnt they sell it to Facebook recently?

[shadow minnow]

Haven’t heard of that

And considering Facebook apple relations kinda doubt it

[ashen spindle]

you mean the lawsuit where apple sues facebook because they violated the privacy rules?

thats like the opposite of selling it to them

[wheat plume]

oh

[shadow minnow]

What happens with apple stays with apple
Until apple decides to change that which they can at anytime tbf
But I don’t think it would be likely to benefit them long term unless done really well, though the short term benefit could be quite substantial

Or well benefit meaning profit

[wheat plume]

Can you hide notification content on the lockscreen on iPhone?

Not remove them, but not show the contents, but you still see you have a message or an email etc etc

[ashen spindle]

obviously...

[wheat plume]

why is that obviously?

[ashen spindle]

with how many people use it what sort of insane security and privacy nightmare would that be when you can just see what people get when they just look at the time or so

[wheat plume]

thats the default behaviour

[astral haven]

^

yea you have to go into settings and turn show previews off to disable it lel

[wheat plume]

ok ok good

[ashen spindle]

well yeah that doesnt apply for everyone so its not on by default because generally people care more about convenience

[wheat plume]

Yeah, not many people go into settings to see what you can do anymore ;-;

Tabs in the File Explorer are now in the "stable" release of Windows 11

WWWWOOOO

Windows has a feature Linux has had for decades

[frozen ingot]

shame noone uses linux

[wheat plume]

https://youtu.be/aWP1gHoDoOw

now if we could only MOVE THE FUCKING TASKBAR TO THE OTHER EDGES

[ashen spindle]

huh

[ashen spindle]

you mean time on the left and stuff?

[frozen ingot]

win11 moment

[wheat plume]

No

^

.-.

They said they were adding it back, BUT THEY DIDNT

[ashen spindle]

what feature

[wheat plume]

moving the taskbar to the other edges of the screen

[ashen spindle]

so like sideways?

[wheat plume]

I always used the taskbar at the top of the screen ever since Win 11

cause i prefer it there

or the left side sometimes

[umbral knot]

I have my taskbar on different sides for each monitor

[wheat plume]

yeh, its a great feature

[ashen spindle]

here I am hiding the taskbar so any more features would basically just be bloated features for me

[wheat plume]

The win 11 taskbar is way too thick

[astral haven]

you can do the same thing as before to change the thickness...

by default its identical to default on everything before

[wheat plume]

yeh but it breaks the position of all the text and shit

[wintry ice]

Hi. It is related to an issue that I reported on GitHub. I want to assess how adequate my view is (if there are any more people that find the way the analog mode works inconvenient or excessively sensitive). The plan is to share any findings with you guys, but I've only got 1 reply so far...

[thick elk]

I always just moved the task-bar to the right of my rightmost screen

[wintry ice]

I concluded that this community is one of very few places where it is possible co collect relevant feedback.

[thick elk]

but now on linux I just use very small ones at the top

[wheat plume]

Gnome desktop? XD

That panel is permenent to the top unless you use an extension like dash to panel

[cursive summit]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyleBennett/status/1580247905956376576?cxt=HHwWgMCtuaLGle4rAAAA

Kyle Bennett (@KyleBennett)

Verification from multiple sources that @Radeon Navi 31 will support upcoming DisplayPort 2.1 specification. I am tremendously surprised that @NVIDIAGeForce 4090 only supports DP 1.4a. Props to @LinusTech for calling out the DP1.4/4090 shortcomings! https://t.co/eW84VicAZr

Twitter · Oct 12, 2022, 5:23 PM

[shadow minnow]

Well if you are curious about if you can do sth you can search for it.
Anyways best iPhone feature is if you tell Siri Lumos it will turn on light, Nox off.

[cursive summit]

Is DP 2.1 even at all available?

[shadow minnow]

No

And it won’t be for a while

2.0 can do 4k240 or 8k60 10bpc without compression

Or 1080p960

On the input side even 2.0 isn’t really available yet

On output only it’s lowest version that has half the bitrate

Haven’t heard of DP 2.1 spec being finalized at all yet

Yeah it wasn’t announced yet

[thick elk]

The funniest part is that dlss3 would go a long greatly with a dp2.0 monitor

If you don't want to suffer bad latency you basically need to be hitting at most half refresh rate in terms of framerate

otherwise your latency will skyrocket or you won't be using vsync which for what it intends to do kind of seems important.

[pale sigil]

@cursive summit did Linus address his benchmarks yet

[astral haven]

or with dsc on a 1.4 monitor
its not like dsc actually changes the image displayed

[crimson wigeon]

BuT iT's CoMpReSsEd

[astral haven]

oh noes what a disaster

[thick elk]

I know, but it's a nice meme

[shadow minnow]

It does just very very little

[astral haven]

still waiting on a sauce

[shadow minnow]

But I suppose the main argument is that with DP 2.0 and DSC you could go even higher

[shadow minnow]

I literally gave it to you

[astral haven]

no you didnt

[marsh glade]

You're more than welcome to gather opinions and perspectives for your own personal purposes, so long as you do so in an unobtrusive and respectful way.

Just wanted to check that it's not for commercial purposes

[astral haven]

Not mathematically lossless is obvious and is what everyone says
i need a source on it actually changing the image
cause far as the math goes, it should only be lossy when theres over a certain amount of entropy...

[astral haven]

you need to start reading what im typing

[shadow minnow]

I am saying image is gonna be little bit different, never claimed it’s to a noticeable extend

[astral haven]

it must lose data when showing full screen random data making over 32gb worth of data

[astral haven]

whats your source on that

[shadow minnow]

This

[astral haven]

again no

[shadow minnow]

“Where data is lost after the file is compressed”

[astral haven]

yes

but dsc doesnt always carry more data than displayport carries

[shadow minnow]

Still DP 2.0 + DSC would be better, and useful
Since you can daisy chain + higher max quality

[astral haven]

say you have a block of white, that will be transmitted losslessly

same for an area of black

[shadow minnow]

Well yes but if each pixel is different color you may get some loss

Anyways it doesn’t really matter, but still DP 2.0 would be nice

Especially for daisy chaining

[astral haven]

yes but how much of the screen ahs to be random pixel data for there to be loss

again

[shadow minnow]

Idk about exact numbers for that

[astral haven]

i need a source on what situations the data is actually lost

[shadow minnow]

Oh

Idk about that, anyways yes it doesn’t really matter

It’s way better than like 4:2:2

[astral haven]

the question is when is it different from 444

cause it could very much be closer to rgb than 444 is...

[shadow minnow]

4:2:2 Almost anytime
DSC is way better in that regard
Like 4:2:2 can be noticeable with text in some cases

[astral haven]

444

not 422

cause 444 technically is also a mathematical operation

and legalization does compress 0-255 into 16-235...

[shadow minnow]

Anyways nice thing is with DP 2.0 you can possibly daisy chain 4K 120 10bpc displays using DSC

[astral haven]

possibly

but you can also do that with dp 1.4

[thick elk]

Display port MST can be a pain at times from experience

[astral haven]

^

[thick elk]

I wanted to keep a port free for my vr set and started using a mst adapter, now if I reboot the screens connected to it won't come back on.
Just one thing

I need to fully power-cycle

[astral haven]

nvidia?

[shadow minnow]

Only using DSC + 4:2:0

[astral haven]

thats a negatory

[thick elk]

Sadly yes Nvidia

[shadow minnow]

You can use both

And in this case have to

[astral haven]

no

if you can do 1 4k240 10b with 1.4
you can do 2 4k12010b with 1.4

rgb

[shadow minnow]

That is true, I said 4 4k120 10b though

[astral haven]

you specifically didnt

[wintry ice]

Thank you. I would mention my poll for a couple of days and share any findings. Here is the poll: https://forms.gle/3jjVz36QvyxC4hqTA

[shadow minnow]

Oh lol, my bad, I suppose after writing 4 in 4K I didn’t realize another 4 needs to go there

Sorry for that

But well, 4:2:0 is not the best imo

[astral haven]

yea 420 is bad

[wintry ice]

I would appreciate any contributions

[astral haven]

but dsc does allow for 3 4k120 8b and 2 4k120 10b

[shadow minnow]

That is true

[astral haven]

and how niche is the situation where you need more than 6 4k120

because most of the gpus have 3 displayports or more

heck there are gonna be gpus with 6 displayports which can drive 12 monitors

[shadow minnow]

Don’t most of the GPUs also only support 4 monitors

Or does that not count when it comes to DP daisy chain

[astral haven]

apparently not according to qlum

[shadow minnow]

Well official GPU specs say so but maybe DP daisy chaining bypasses that

Not sure

[thick elk]

yea also normally if I wasn't on linux + nvidia I would use the intel igp on the side

[ashen spindle]

you know what would make this a simple thing, find a comparison of images that show how it looks with and without compression

[thick elk]

that way screens I won't run games on could run of that

but yea I am using a mst adapter

[astral haven]

they dont exist lel

[shadow minnow]

Gigabyte when they provided 6 ports on their GPUs used to have to limit you to using 4 at once

Because they had to

[astral haven]

that was not using mst tho

[shadow minnow]

It would have to be a huge file to make it visible

[thick elk]

which works when combining a 155hz 1440p and a 60hz 1920x1200 screen.

[shadow minnow]

Like raw screenshot

[thick elk]

If I remember correctly older amd cards supported up to 5 screens

[ashen spindle]

that's the entire point, it's not visible under normal use lol

[astral haven]

except screenshot wouldnt work

youd have to read off the data input to the lcd

[shadow minnow]

Yeah

[ashen spindle]

you just confirmed that you would not see it unless you were to zoom in basically

[astral haven]

but from reading the math, as far as i can tell, it also wont lose data unless theres over a certain amount of entropy

so it wouldnt even matter if you zoomed in, there wouldnt be a change

[shadow minnow]

Yes

[ashen spindle]

so if you just said you can't see the difference, what exactly is the issue of using it?

[shadow minnow]

That you technically under a very specific circumstance could see it

[astral haven]

[citation needed]

[ashen spindle]

so basically never, good that we cleared that up

[shadow minnow]

Here the citation

By very specific circumstance I mean circumstance where it would be over the certain amount

[astral haven]

im asking you to prove that images with enough entropy exist

[shadow minnow]

Ok then I’ll counter that

And ask you to prove they don’t

[astral haven]

ez
ive never seen one in my years of using a dsc display 😛

[shadow minnow]

Not proof 😛

[astral haven]

ok so find one that does

[shadow minnow]

My further maths teacher spent 6 hours today and yesterday proving one stats thing

[shadow minnow]

Non of us can prove our statements so it’s 50 50

How exactly does DSC compress btw?

[astral haven]

complicatedly

the non mathematical part tho is it uses blocks of the screen and compresses them a full block at a time

[shadow minnow]

Does it add any latency I wonder?
Probably not much tbf.
Still curious how exactly is the mathematical part

[astral haven]

it was in a slide deck that I linked previously

and it adds no latency apparently

done on the fly at line rate on the asic

[ashen spindle]

https://vesa.org/vesa-display-compression-codecs/dsc/

[vivid vine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYtSKnZRGtE

[ashen spindle]

https://www.quantumdata.com/assets/displayport_dsc_protocols_webinar.pdf thats a very extensive presentation about DSC

[vivid vine]

Not sure about wired mice in 2022

I mean I understand but I will pass

[ashen spindle]

honestly at most I care about mice having scrollwheels that dont break lmfao

think my M3 is double clicking on this one now too sometimes

[thick elk]

Reminds me I still need to rma my mouse for that

not double clicking but not clicking at all

[vivid vine]

I mean I usually don't care how a mouse looks but that Atompalm is just one ugly mofo

Think it might be the bright orange scroll wheel

[thick elk]

I really wish manufacturers took better care around mmb reliability

the button is used a lot in my case at least and basic push buttons and long stems really don't do it any favors

[frozen ingot]

its kinda interesting how often there's issues with switches, scrollwheels etc on mice these days

back in the 90s you could literally use your mouse as a weapon to beat your siblings with and it would still work fine afterwards

now its like oh no a speck of dust went inside the switch, guess its a paperweight now

[vivid vine]

Wish I could get the Viper and Superlight to produce a baby, would be the last mouse I ever need

The opti switches, side button feel, scroll wheel feel and clicks on the Viper, combined with the shape and weight of the Superlight

https://tenor.com/view/que-omg-epic-hymn-heaven-gif-17986389

[wheat plume]

My mouse is still rock solid pretty much like 7 - 8 years later

[vivid vine]

Nah DAV3 pro is still an ergo, I hate ergo's

Might be too strong of a word tho, more like a disliking of them for gaming

Any game that is not work

I am just not an ergo person for gaming, I have a claw grip but I kinda move my hand on the mouse different ways sometimes

So a mouse trying to force me into a certain grip just throws me off which is why I hate ergos

[iron coyote]

Love how everyone's recommending you a DAV3 Pro LOL

If it weren't ergo probably would be perfect for you

[fickle ore]

good specs but clicks are kinda meh

[vivid vine]

It could be exactly how I explained, still wouldn't get it because shape is king

Either going to get a Lamzu or a Shroud 303

But the 303 seems kinda niche so feel like it would be a waste

[fickle ore]

too casual

😛

[iron coyote]

What about a possible Viper Mini Pro ? 👀

[wheat plume]

The Pixel 7 is a pretty phone <3

but the pure black color is boring

[dense escarp]

Just get this bebe

[shadow minnow]

Would you commit arson?

[pale sigil]

I would

[wheat plume]

same

[stark bobcat]

just spend 300€?

[wheat plume]

also is ugly

[dense escarp]

yes 4Head

[stark bobcat]

that mouse is literally more expensive than my monitor

[wheat plume]

its more expensive than both of mine combined

[stark bobcat]

oof

[ashen spindle]

yeah that mouse costs about as much as my monitor

's tax alone

[stark bobcat]

my monitor is now being sold for 321€ wtf

oh well

thankfully I didn't spend that much

[gusty kiln]

my monitor was 500 when I got it

currently 400 on newegg

[dense escarp]

it's an insane mouse tho

could never go back to my gpx

[iron coyote]

My grip would be so uncomfortable on the M2K 😅

Heavy palm/light claw

[gusty kiln]

yeah you gotta already be using a fingertip grip for that mouse

[astral haven]

i claw it

[dense escarp]

I've always used fingertip so it felt like heaven to use

After fingertipping shapes like gpx for ages

[chrome estuary]

so what do you guys think of the 7000 series ryzens? i really didn't even realize it's out.

[ashen spindle]

good for productivity, for gaming wait for v cache coming likely Q1 2023

[chrome estuary]

oh yeah totally. that's been my plan all along.

[gusty kiln]

pricing is gunna be interesting

[chrome estuary]

any news on ram? higher clock or higher cl?

[astral haven]

stick with intel for ram oc

[ashen spindle]

well ddr5 pricing is going down still and likely wont need high end ram with v cache so shouldnt cost too much

but yeah for ram OC intel probably gets most results

[gusty kiln]

X3D chips are so casual friendly

[ashen spindle]

assuming the sweetspot stays the same ddr5-6000 is the choice to go and then just dial in the timings on it

[gusty kiln]

just run stock mostly and get most of the performance

[chrome estuary]

aight. I was thinking 6000 or 6200ish

[ashen spindle]

by the time x3d is out I assume enough people tried certain combos so it'll be easier to see what kits to get specifically for OC/regular use

[astral haven]

^

also hopefully we will have alot more than 6000 tho

[gusty kiln]

people hunting for b-die all over again

[ashen spindle]

well yeah, but for stable daily use 6000 is likely all you need, especially with x3d making it less relevant

[astral haven]

🤷 theres no guarantee of being a chip as good as bdie was on am5

[gusty kiln]

I'll probably only buy X3D going forward

[ashen spindle]

trendforce is looking at another 15ish% down in ddr5 price for Q4

CES in january is likely where we get x3d announced just like last time

[astral haven]

hypeish

how hype i am tho depends on 13th gen

[gusty kiln]

can't wait to see 1GB of cache in the future

[astral haven]

just buy milan x

[gusty kiln]

[ashen spindle]

or go ibm with the massive shared L2

[astral haven]

ibms shared l2 is only about as big as milan x

[ashen spindle]

the one were L3 basically gets used as L2?

[cursive summit]

Anyone know whom SkyJuice60 from Angstronomics is, and why is that brand new publication publishing fairly prominent leaks?

[ashen spindle]

been a while since I saw that so I dont remember the details just that it was massive lol

[astral haven]

other way around

it only has l2

[ashen spindle]

ah

[astral haven]

but its oodles of l2

and the cpu sees l2 on other cores on the same chip as l3

[ashen spindle]

right I remember now

[astral haven]

and l2 on other cores on other sockets as l4

[ashen spindle]

well once you know who an anonymous person is, you wont get leaks anymore really

[gusty kiln]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/y19tv4/more_detail_on_sora_no_holes_in_the_bottom_plate/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

@vivid vine

no holes anywhere

[fickle ore]

dis gon release in a week or so

m2k at.. slightly bigger shape

[final flame]

bruh

forget honeycomb, that's like nonexistent

literally 3ds printer supports

[gusty kiln]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/y1hqtl/my_custom_zaunkoenig_m2k/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

we must go deeper

[fickle ore]

if it works it works

[fickle ore]

that isnt a mouse that's just stupid

[final flame]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/381976014018?hash=item58ef8b6cc2:g:dDYAAOSwOgdYrNkW

at this point this is what's needed

toss a good sensor in it and it's good to go

[frozen ingot]

that thing looks like I could flatten it with the weight of my hand

[ashen spindle]

man I just cant get used to this massive boards vs cooler difference on a consumer card lol

[fickle ore]

my car, my bike and my mouse; I feel so holey.

[shadow minnow]

I see you traveled to Romania

[fickle ore]

Why romania 😄

[final flame]

your mouse body got stolen

[shadow minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/volkswagen-beetle-volkswagen-commercial-cars-car-gif-16355289

When you park your car in Romania

[fickle ore]

lmao

[gusty kiln]

[empty wren]

Eh.. not like people palm grip that mouse also looks pretty cool

[dense escarp]

The mouse is specifically made for his grip

So it's really cool imo

[crisp granite]

I don't actually hate that

the 300 euro for a mouse in a divisive shape bit is nuts, especially when you're binning that divisive shape

but this could be good for those with specific grips that just aren't catered to by the market

I'm going to try something similar with my viper mini
thing is good in all ways but shape...and the shitty razer software
I'll see what I can snip in the mouse firmware to prevent the popups and this would definitely address my shape concerns

[gusty kiln]

you should be able to save 1 profile on the viper mini then just uninstall synapse

[crisp granite]

it will still provide the stupid "install synapse" popups

that's my issue

[gusty kiln]

hmmm

[crisp granite]

I want a mouse
THAT WON'T NAG ME TO USE FUCKING SOFTWARE I DON'T WANT ON MY PC

so I switched to something else

but the viper mini would work well for such an experiment

being dirt cheap and a rock solid mouse apart from the thing I plan to address with the experiment, and...that

I can't find an OS solution to prevent the popups, so I guess I'm diving into the firmware to see what to rip out

[stark bobcat]

what is the thing?

[crisp granite]

Razer

viper mini

[stark bobcat]

a rock solid mouse apart from the thing I plan to address with the experiment

[astral haven]

@stark bobcat
this is the thing

el trojan

[crisp granite]

no
the mouse shape is the problem the experiment will...try to solve

the stupid firmware thing I'll just do because I don't hate myself enough to not

[cursive summit]

Oh good lordie lordie

Can't do well for stock

[crisp granite]

"the PC market is collapsing"

bruh

no it's not

[astral haven]

Nah Intel has a dividend

[cursive summit]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-11/intel-is-planning-thousands-of-job-cuts-in-face-of-pc-slowdown

[astral haven]

Relative to covid times it absolutely is

[crisp granite]

those were literally unprecedented times when EVERYONE needed a home PC upgrade

a momentary jump

[astral haven]

Doesn't make now any less lower than then

[cursive summit]

Intel's stock price fell by -50%?

Wew

[astral haven]

Ye

Real good stock if you want a dividend now

[cursive summit]

They are still Intel

So, big big company

But what went wrong god damn

[astral haven]

Speculation? Idk

[cursive summit]

Lack of innovation? Bad company direction?

[astral haven]

no this is stock

not revenue

[ashen spindle]

also all semi is down atm

[cursive summit]

Stock price is pretty important though

[astral haven]

for what

[cursive summit]

Major share drops could lead to acquisitions

[astral haven]

intel is already a monopoly

noone can afford to buy them and also not get antitrusted to hell

[ashen spindle]

the biggest thing its important for is to be able to make better share buybacks with the same capital when you have money and stock drops

[astral haven]

ye lel

[ashen spindle]

amd is probably announcing massive share buybacks this quaters investor meeting

[astral haven]

this is basically just good for intel and people who want to make long term moneyz

[fickle ore]

Wud be nice div but waiting 5years for gains is kinda meh

[astral haven]

youd get $450 on dec first

ish

[cursive summit]

This dividend game is for gold hands

[fickle ore]

Yeah I've a decent enough position on it already just thinking about lump summing it

cost basis of 28$

[cursive summit]

Peeps like me who invest like 500$ max cause that's how much I typically have should stick to crypto

[astral haven]

if you are us vexx you should get series i bonds

[cursive summit]

Eu

[fickle ore]

No i-bond alternative in EU rip

[astral haven]

get rekt then

[wheat plume]

https://www.thetechoutlook.com/news/new-release/gadgets-release/tesla-debuts-in-phone-industry-with-tesla-pi-phone/

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm

[frozen ingot]

its not quite april fools yet

[wheat plume]

Their own CPU

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmm

[frozen ingot]

knowing elon he'll claim its releasing next year, then we'll hear nothing for the next 3 years

[wheat plume]

Apparently 1st December

[true quest]

gib heatgun recommendations

[empty wren]

Cannot go wrong with hakko

[shadow minnow]

Ngl I hope 4080 16 isn’t much worse than 4090, since with the price difference may get me to consider getting a 4090

Nvidia making 4090 make sense by making 4080 not make sense

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-16-gb-12-gb-official-gaming-benchmarks-huge-performance-gap/

These look scary

[ashen spindle]

no

they look handpicked since plague tale is literally a game chosen by nvidia that isnt even released yet

[shadow minnow]

What no?

Possible tbf

[ashen spindle]

no not possible, impossible for anything else

they dont lie about it but you always see the best selection they can find

[fair gull]

apparently flight sim just doesnt work on anything but the 4090

or im reading it wrong

[ashen spindle]

they might've also just missed it, since for whatever reason they had to make it look like their own graphs instead of just posting the picture of the compared number that nvidia made

[fair gull]

arent those 3 also dx12 titles?

[ashen spindle]

see there you get an entire 5 frames more for 600€ more

[cursive summit]

I don't at all mind that design

But everything else about it is a major question mark

Custom SoC?

Like, a lot of the most crucial factors of why Apple and Samsung work well is the OS

And a brand new phone OS from them is a sure way of not working well initially and prolly lead to lacklustre sales, meaning to support or even a phone sequel

[ashen spindle]

where does it say custom os

[cursive summit]

Operating System Tesla OS

IP68 though, not terrible

Still no headphone jack

Featureset wise this is pretty damn packed

[ashen spindle]

it doesnt say anything about the OS on that link for me

[cursive summit]

All that will result in how good it is is the OS

[wheat plume]

Watch now, it runs TeslaOS
Which is just customized AOSP

[ashen spindle]

ok does it say tesla os on another link or what

[cursive summit]

Is this phone a joke or what

I've never heard of this

And it goes back to April?

Musk didn't announce it on twitter either, where's the news coming from

[cursive summit]

Where are the rumours coming from

[ashen spindle]

first sentence in the article

probably somewhere from tesla

[cursive summit]

I've never heard of this before today

GSMArena doesn't even have it in the database

It goes back to April and June?

[shadow minnow]

My guess is cpu bottleneck

[ashen spindle]

the whole stick about dlss3 is supposed to be that you get more frames even in cpu bound scenarios

but yes 5fps also is obviously not the norm for difference either

just showing that its clearly not as massive as in one unreleased game that was likely optimized specifically for that gpu lmao

[cursive summit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmUb9sDS9zw

[wheat plume]

wait.... why cant you put open source apps on the Apple App Store???

[ashen spindle]

what

[wheat plume]

you arent allowed to have open source apps in the App Store

[ashen spindle]

no all that means is apple need to sign off on it because they test the app beforehand

[wheat plume]

oh

[ashen spindle]

if you were to open the link and read the post you'd see that it's about certain types of licenses...

[fair gull]

can we get #JustLanaThings

[ashen spindle]

sure would've been weird if I had to tell my boss the open source app we released 2 weeks ago wasn't allowed on the app store despite apple giving it the ok

[fair gull]

smh

breaking tos

[reef patrol]

https://youtu.be/fuin5SnqzcA?t=955

(Timestamped)

[misty saffron]

oh well, guess telegram has to be removed from app store now

[ashen spindle]

oh yeah true

[misty saffron]

https://github.com/TelegramMessenger/Telegram-iOS

[reef patrol]

Eh... debatable.

[ashen spindle]

rdna 2 aint coming close to a 4080 tf are you ona bout

[astral haven]

yea only the 4070 that nvidia called a 4080 12gb

[ashen spindle]

ye

but even then idk about handily outperforming it

[astral haven]

yea

a solid getting rekt by 2-5% lel

rdna3 tho?

thats another story

[vivid vine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmUb9sDS9zw

Corsair rep is probably getting slapped out back right now

[ashen spindle]

probably an engineer that though all cables work like theirs and theirs is different or so

and didnt check it with pr clearly lmfao

[astral haven]

nah

[vivid vine]

@ashen spindle why sometimes it better to just say nothing at all

[astral haven]

saying the card detects the number of plugs plugged in is wrong

[vivid vine]

Facts tho, dude definitely did not run this by PR what so ever

[astral haven]

the adapter detects it and changes how it presents the card depending on that

[astral haven]

4 sure

[vivid vine]

@astral haven the card does tho, literally from Nvidia's mouth

[astral haven]

nvidia is simplifying

the card itself just looks at the reported number by the cable

the cable is what detects the plug count

[ashen spindle]

effectively the same result and teh corair guy should know

[astral haven]

nvidia specified they needed an active ic for that

[astral haven]

yuppers

big L from that person

[ashen spindle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9vC9NBL8zo&t=1541s "My rage is uncapped. There is no cap."

[pale sigil]

Would anyone be wanting to buy the gen 2 jsaux steam dock? UK? Used It like twice. I'll charge excluding tax.

[wheat plume]

So here's your problem, you're a gamer
Linus Tech Tips

[shadow minnow]

Indeed

[crisp granite]

look

I wouldn't be playing minecraft on my macbook otherwise

[wheat plume]

xd

[crisp granite]

ngl macbooks make solid gaming machines

[frozen ingot]

yeah its getting to the point where one should seriously ask oneself if gaming is really worth all this money

[crisp granite]

short answer
quit being poor lol

but actually, yes

[shadow minnow]

no

[frozen ingot]

like yeah I think video games are fun, but are they $3000+ fun

[shadow minnow]

No

[crisp granite]

PC gaming is really becoming a rich-man's-activity

[shadow minnow]

No either

[crisp granite]

console gaming ain't an option either

[shadow minnow]

Even more wrong

[wheat plume]

PC gaming: High ass entry cost + low ass game prices + Mods + Free multiplayer + TOO MANY FUCKING LAUNCHERS

Console gaming: Low ass entry cost + Expensive ass games + Costly multiplayer

[ashen spindle]

you know there isnt only 4k 240hz as a playable option? the cheaper variants are still working fine

yes its expensive to get that, but you dont need to have the best possible

[shadow minnow]

Many people play on very old computers where entry cost is barely any

[wheat plume]

true

[shadow minnow]

Or non if it’s a pc from their parents

[frozen ingot]

technically you don't need a 3 grand machine to game but still

[shadow minnow]

Though it may not be able to run many things

[wheat plume]

if I didnt have a desktop with a GPU, the Steam Deck is perfect for all the gaming I wanna do

in terms of specs

[ashen spindle]

also almost all games have price parity on pc/ console so where is the higher game cost coming from?

[shadow minnow]

I have survived gaming exclusively on old macbooks for a while

Long while

[ashen spindle]

if you mean lack of cheap indie games that are 5$ each, thats somethign else if they dont make a console port

[wheat plume]

same with my old ass laptop for minecraft years and years ago

[shadow minnow]

I mean you can usually get it for cheaper on some sites for pc, or well uh, avoid cost

[crisp granite]

I remember playing metro redux on my old laptop

[wheat plume]

lack of sales on console

[crisp granite]

it ran quite well, solid 30-40 FPS throughout, on a 720p panel, low settings, intel hd 520

[wheat plume]

such as 50-70% off for steam sales etc

[shadow minnow]

I remember 10fps world of tanks

[wheat plume]

I remember 9fps Minecraft @ 2 chunk render distance

and using my mouse on the couch beside me

cause I didnt have a desk

[crisp granite]

counterpoint to costly games

Xbox live gold and PS Plus

[wheat plume]

Fair point tbh

[crisp granite]

you'll need it for multiplayer anyway (iirc, that's been binned this gen)

but you get free games every month

[wheat plume]

thats how my cousin plays most games on his Xbox

[crisp granite]

for games with gold, I got some gems, like BF1, SR2, a bunch more

[wheat plume]

SR2?

Saints Row

ah

[crisp granite]

Saints Row 2

the good ones

SR, SR2, SR3

the reboot...

uh

🤢

[wheat plume]

Dont you love when you get over half the achievements in one of your fav games completely by accident? <3

I didnt try to get them, just got them while playing the game

[crisp granite]

a large amount of achievements are just tied to certain completion things

I managed to 100% fallout 4

by accident

I was just playing the game
completing quests
collecting collectables, levelling up
when the nuka mixes came about I started using those because those were awesome for my melee build

[wheat plume]

this aint done from just playing the game, unless you try to get as many as you can without knowing its an achievement

[crisp granite]

and that nuka mix thing where you kill 40 nuka world creatures under the influence of said nuka mixes

brought me to 100%

[wheat plume]

nowhere in the game does it require you to get friendlys

ok how tf you get this one?

im trying to think of what level in that campaign this might be possible in

[crisp granite]

just use a scorestreak

pleb

[ashen spindle]

https://videocardz.com/press-release/3dmark-speed-way-directx12-ultimate-gpu-benchmark-is-now-available oh nice, new benchmark just in time for new gpus to OC on it

[ashen spindle]

you wont believe who it was, well unless you already know lmao...

[cursive summit]

https://twitter.com/greymon55/status/1580411605325869056

Greymon55 (@greymon55)

definitely around november 20th

Likes

152

Twitter · Oct 13, 2022, 4:14 AM

Seems the RDNA3 availability is in November after all

https://twitter.com/greymon55/status/1580589982720602114

Greymon55 (@greymon55)

@jortego128 It can certainly compete with the 4090, but its perf ceiling may not be as high as the full fat ad102.

Twitter · Oct 13, 2022, 4:03 PM

[ashen spindle]

as expected

[cursive summit]

I'm not sure what Greymon meant by this https://twitter.com/greymon55/status/1580540885179461633

Greymon55 (@greymon55)

@kiran_8309 launch

Twitter · Oct 13, 2022, 12:48 PM

Launch date is November 3rd, no?

[ashen spindle]

no

[cursive summit]

How is launch and "sale date" different

[ashen spindle]

nobody ever launches stuff the day its announced

[cursive summit]

You launch it during announcement and it hits the shelves at a specified date?

[ashen spindle]

yea so nobody has time to watch reviews or be ready for it, definitely something people would enjoy...

so you cant ready the marketing for it earlier

[cursive summit]

Surely, November 3rd for RDNA3 will be both an announcement and a launch date

With availability starting Nov 20th

[ashen spindle]

if you can buy it nov 20th, then the 7900xt launches nov 20th

or w/e the name

[cursive summit]

Then why'd greymon not say "sale date"

Why the differential

[ashen spindle]

to clarify what was meant since he probably also didnt know wtf the rando was asking

[cursive summit]

I suppose

Waiting for that RDNA3 angstronomics article that Kepler jebaited us with

[astral haven]

"hits the shelves" day is launch day

[ashen spindle]

oh also the adapter thing gets even more awkward now, since apparently the reason is that nvidia gave gn/press other information than AiB and psu makers, allegedly

but even if that's true, a bit too aggressive how that was posted

[astral haven]

also rereading what the rep says
gn is throwing a fit over misreading

[ashen spindle]

no I thought that at first too but seeing the chat it wasn't a misread

what makes it more awkard is that it isn't a random rep, they worked together before..

as in, those statements were from jonnyguru

[astral haven]

Yea

And while aggressive
Johnnyguru is 100% correct

[ashen spindle]

he isnt

he said that but that's not how the connector works

this is how its working apparently

[astral haven]

That's irrelevant for how the card works

[astral haven]

Yea exactly

[ashen spindle]

I mean, the answer he gives to that question is contradicting it, since he says the card is only looking for one sense pin, when its clear it looks for #0 and #1 and depending on which one gets detected it can draw more or not

[astral haven]

If Johnny guru is correct, sense 1 isn't monitored 🤷‍♂️

And the card will draw 600 or 450w depending on if sense 0 is grounded or open

Nvidias adapter is what is monitoring how many cables are connected

The card is unaware

[shadow minnow]

It kinda is aware

[ashen spindle]

yes, if 0 is open its 450, but if 0 AND 1 is open, then it will fail

[astral haven]

Only when using nvidias adapter

[ashen spindle]

so it has to look for both pins

[shadow minnow]

Yes but that’s the issue really

That it is true with nvidias adapter

[astral haven]

Or
1 is perpetually grounded

[ashen spindle]

its not, the image is from igor who manually tested it since psu makers and aibs wouldn't tell him how it works

could link the video, but its in german

[astral haven]

That's the spec ofc

But is Nvidia actually monitoring sense 1?

[shadow minnow]

Rip my nice cables too

[astral haven]

Either way the card still doesn't know how many cables are connected
It is guessing based on the wattage reported by the adapter

[ashen spindle]

I mean jonnys own sentence here implies that the sense #1 wouldn't be permanently grounded

and then ofc the nvidia rep being specific about that too, would be weird if he says the adapter tells the card which option is connected and then the card just ignores it

[astral haven]

Again you are misinterpreting it
I am 100% sure that neither of them are implying anything besides what they literally say

johnny could have covered his ass by saying "the sense pin the card monitors reports the wattage of the cable and allows the card to draw over 450w when grounded"

but the card's power usage doesnt change when plugging in the adapter

it just allows it to be changed

[ashen spindle]

tried to see but neither igor/gn nor guru3d tried to see what happens with 2 connectors since that would make it extremely clear if #1 is always grounded or not

and/or ignored

[astral haven]

nah

the adapter could be wired first 2 8 pins to the first set of 6 pins then the second set of 2 8 pins wired to the second set of 6 pins

[ashen spindle]

I mean could also check if the card posts, what the max power limit it reports is

if it shows 300w it is clear it looks at more

[astral haven]

the card doesnt post with 2

gn said that

but that doesnt mean the card is monitoring the other sense

[ashen spindle]

ok, if it only monitor #0, how does it know not to post with 2 connectors then

[astral haven]

this

half of the connector itself wouldnt be receiving power

[ashen spindle]

so the not posting would then not be from missing sense pins but from missing 12v rails?

[astral haven]

yap

[ashen spindle]

but that doesnt really add up with the nvidia rep saying the IC makes it so that the sense pin tells how much can be drawn, unless they make it so lower end cards work differently and then not break when 12v is missing?

sounds possible but a bit of a mess

[astral haven]

yea it would be a bit trouble of wiring, but nvidia really likes messing up the wiring for sense reasons

[ashen spindle]

wouldn't it break spec if 2 8pins connected are not powering all the 12v pins then?

or is that the spec for lower power

[astral haven]

🤷

i would highly suspect that nvidia is doing some trickery considering they always do

and this isnt really that complicated

[ashen spindle]

yeah its not hard, but I wonder if that is how the spec works, but idk if I'd manage to decipher that lmao

ok igor did check that

[astral haven]

does it monitor sense 1?

[ashen spindle]

all 6 12v pins are bridged so if you have 1 8pin, that powers all 6

so by conclusion it has to

[astral haven]

nah

[ashen spindle]

ok then I dont get how

[astral haven]

the ic could communicate to the card via 1 sense pin

that wouldnt be a problem

but it would make more sense to use the second sense pin

[ashen spindle]

ok, but if it uses sense 1 for something, then it uses both

so we'd be back to it using both

[astral haven]

why?

[ashen spindle]

we have 3 "states", 600,450, fail

how would it do that with only using one sense pin

[astral haven]

by sending data over the sense pin?

[ashen spindle]

so you mean sense #0 is either open, grounded or sending data?

[astral haven]

for example

now that would be dumb

but I wouldnt put it past nvidia to say they were doing that to corsair

[ashen spindle]

would also contradict what igor measured form my understanding

[astral haven]

did igor measure the card not turning on when using a pure 12 pin cable?

(no sense pins)

[ashen spindle]

https://www.igorslab.de/en/this-is-how-nvidias-4-fold-adapter-for-12vhpwr-connection-of-geforce-rtx-4090-works-with-workaround/

now it sounds like sense 1 was the same if its <4 connectors, so it only changed with the 4th, so the idea that it has 3 states wouldn't fit

did he check all options where nvidia might've done something sneaky? probably not but even for nvidia that would be weirdly complicated here to do for no real reason

but, lets say somehow what jonny said would be correct after all, why tf wouldn't you reach out to the people directly instead

[astral haven]

johnny definetly made the mistake of reporting what nvidia said to him lel

[ashen spindle]

wait it might even get more cursed, what if they have an early adapter where it was indeed different lol

[astral haven]

oh yea thats definetly likely

i would suspect tho that nvidia sent them a preprod card that didnt have the sense circuitry on it, and just told corsair what the card would do in the retail card

or they didnt even send a card and just said what it would do

[ashen spindle]

maybe they just gave them a 3090ti board with the connector replaced since that was the orignal test pcb for higher powerdraw and that had issues

well, either way GN didn't show the name or direct chatlogs so it was handled relatively professional in that regard so I hope that gets figured out and we dont have more unneeded drama

[astral haven]

GN did misrepresent what Johnny said tho

Or at least misinterpreted it

[ashen spindle]

well I didnt say I want jonny to go and apologize, figuring out means just figuring out, idfk if there was more text or private chats or w/e

and whatever side erred is just hopefully going to stand up for that, and maybe it's both sides, would just suck to lose out on potential informative content due to this

[astral haven]

The things that gn said about the card are obviously correct

The things Johnny said are technically correct but easy to misinterpret

And what gn said about what Johnny said was misinterpreted

[cursive summit]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/rip-to-microsoft-office-henceforth-to-be-known-as-microsoft-365/

https://tenor.com/view/johnny-depp-pirate-pirate-salute-salute-intergalactic-pirates-of-the-caribbean-gif-25016099

You were so good until they ruined you

[ashen spindle]

ngl thought that was something they already did years ago

[cursive summit]

Until now 365 was their online suite

I guess everything will now be 365

[ashen spindle]

I mean I always saw it as one big thing anyway so meh

[cursive summit]

I can't say I like their move towards online

I find the online suite hard to use

[astral haven]

incorrectamundo
they arent changing anything

[ashen spindle]

I dont use it anyway

[cursive summit]

I never said they are changing anything other than name

[astral haven]

they arent changing the name

[ashen spindle]

started using libreoffice some years ago because MS excel was missing a feature and just never went back bc I barely use it anyway

[astral haven]

"The company also points out that the Office brand will continue to exist, at least for a while. Existing Office 365 accounts aren't being renamed"

[cursive summit]

Libreoffice is just so 90s though

[reef patrol]

inb4 office becomes a sub only app just like Adobe

[cursive summit]

When I tried using it the UI was unusable

[cursive summit]

That's what they are most likely moving towards

And why the rebrand is happening

365 I think is subscription model based?

[reef patrol]

Yep.

[astral haven]

nothing is changing

365 has always been a subscription

[reef patrol]

That what Adobe said for years... Until

[astral haven]

thats not true

[cursive summit]

Carmonben, "Office brand name these apps have all been grouped under will begin to go away, to be replaced by "Microsoft 365."

[astral haven]

🤷
that already happened

[cursive summit]

Not for the standalone versions

[astral haven]

standalone?

[cursive summit]

These boyos you install

[astral haven]

you cant buy them standalone...

[cursive summit]

Well, the downloadable version

Tf is it called

Less-online version

[astral haven]

offline?

[cursive summit]

Isn't it nowadays actually online to an extent?

[astral haven]

"cloud enabled application"

[cursive summit]

Yeah that thing

[astral haven]

nope
office 2021 is fully offline

[cursive summit]

So, offline with online elements

[astral haven]

yea and that has always existed as m365

[cursive summit]

I thought the post-2016 Offices embraced Cloud

[astral haven]

negatory

[cursive summit]

Alright then

2016 still the best version

[astral haven]

if you make the mistake of buying m365 ofc its online enabled

[reef patrol]

Interesting.

So when Adobe stopped allowing old, existing offline licenses to be reactivated and began selling only subscriptions, you dont consider that exact thing?

Again - Calling it now. Microsoft's going to pull the same shit in a couple of years.

[cursive summit]

Mansen, I'll be that kind of person
Who genuinely, that is not employed by a company, buys Adobe software

[astral haven]

yes except in this case, microsoft is simply announcing that the product on store shelves will change

m365 and office 365 have existed in parallel for several years now

[reef patrol]

And that's how it begins ... Slowly phase out the old and then stop allowing existing licenses to work and only sell subs

[astral haven]

these are both subscription only is the difference lmao

[reef patrol]

Buy? Yes. Subscribe? No.

Adobe can burn in hell before I pay for Photoshop after CS6.

[cursive summit]

Can someone genuinely explain, why everything is moving towards SaaS

More affordable services for more peeps?

[astral haven]

lel no

[reef patrol]

Because it means more money overall.

[astral haven]

also not nescessarily

[astral haven]

institutional investors value subscription revenue more than repeated revenue

[reef patrol]

People won't be trying to reuse their Office 2013 over and over, if you can prevent them from doing it at all. Please pay half of what office uses to cost to own, every year to keep it running.

[astral haven]

And if you do you can get this fancy little button to press

[reef patrol]

Office already has autosave.

[astral haven]

except this is fancy online autosave

[astral haven]

also not entirely
it automatically saves your work
but it will not update the main file unless you manually hit ctrl s

[reef patrol]

Oh my. And I only have to pay a liver to get it.

[cursive summit]

I thought just a second ago that online features don't exist on the offline versions

[astral haven]

half a liver for a year

[cursive summit]

That button exists on the damn 2021 version of Office I have on my laptop

[reef patrol]

Every year.

All those subs stack up fast.

[astral haven]

is it a subscription or the normal version?

[cursive summit]

Normal one

[astral haven]

you sure?

[cursive summit]

Yeah?

[reef patrol]

Aaaanyway. Duck offline tools being locked into subscription models.

This duck's going to bed.

[cursive summit]

Nighty nighty, duck!

[astral haven]

thats strange
the toggle is not available in 2019

and its been available in m365 since the begining

[cursive summit]

I think the one on my laptop is the 2021 version, toggle's there

[astral haven]

hit it and see what happens

its online only...

for some goddamn reason they dont allow you to autosave locally...

only autorecover

[cursive summit]

Huh

It seems it actually is online with 2021