🎮│game

[bleak pike]

But it's not why I stopped

I can't pay for the sub

[fringe salmon]

you werent even past the free area

tf you paying money for

[orchid prism]

erp

[bleak pike]

Cos I owned all expansions

So it auto removed me from free tier years ago

[orchid prism]

You bought something - That was your first mistake 😄

[bleak pike]

And I couldn't be bothered making a new account

[fringe salmon]

also afaik they confirmed they are going to rework some of the start things in ARR after EW patches are over so new players have a smoother start

if you really cant get through it now

and yeah, just make a new free account, expansion packs including everything go on sale quite often anyway

[bleak pike]

I've heard time and time again how shit it is getting through arr

[unborn spruce]

They're cutting out even more?

[bleak pike]

And once you do it's good

[fringe salmon]

I didn't say cutting out

[unborn spruce]

Ah. A shame.

It needs a lobotomy.

40% of that time can be fucked off.

[fringe salmon]

I said rework because we dont know, so it could be anything

[bleak pike]

But everytime I thought about launching the game I just instantly couldn't be bothered and never launched it

Lol

[unborn spruce]

Let's hope for that 40% snip snip.

[unique bane]

WIsh I could just choose to be ported instantly to newest expansion. CBA solo mainquest from lvl 50

And no im not buying a boost

[bleak pike]

I considered a boost but can't justify it

[unborn spruce]

Of course.

[fringe salmon]

40% snip of ARR wont ever happen because you would loose way too much story setup

[bleak pike]

Swtor you got a boost every expansion with purchase

[unborn spruce]

Oh please, you know it could be done.

Realistically closer to 20%, but it could happen.

[bleak pike]

Maybe don't make me run from character to character for fucking hours

[fringe salmon]

the difference is it doesnt matter what the newest expansion is, you can still play the old content and isn't getting any worse

[bleak pike]

Jesus christ

[unborn spruce]

Given that this makes up 40% of ARR, yeah.

[unique bane]

They should give the lore in other ways than solo mainQ. It's boomer style to enjoy a game in following solo MQ. It's suposed to be a mmorpg ffs

[fringe salmon]

given that is what is literally the reason the game is exploding I doubt you are right

[unborn spruce]

I math'd it, running around pointlessly is between 30 and 40% of ARR if you can combat slightly well.

[fringe salmon]

then it's a different game

[unborn spruce]

If you suck at combat then it drops to like 20%.

[unique bane]

I'm not generalizing, I'm just giving you my humbly shit opinion

[fringe salmon]

and if you dont like a game until it's a different game then you dont enjoy it but changing it would not make the game better

[bleak pike]

Honestly, worst and most boring experience I've had in my life gaming wise.

But everything else is so nice

[unborn spruce]

Right?

When it actually gets down to brass tacks it's really good.

But it's horrific to get there.

[bleak pike]

Just can't be assed most of the time because I'm forced to do such a shitty story

[fringe salmon]

It's just a limitation of them having limited time to rework the game ground up

[bleak pike]

Which is mostly made shit because of how it works

And tbh I don't even know what tbh fucks happening

[fringe salmon]

so until now they didn't really have a chance to go back and rework that part

[unborn spruce]

In which case the best choice is to just accept that ARR is fucking awful and give skips for it.

[bleak pike]

Last I remember I did some guild shit

And got promoted

[unborn spruce]

Make a new tutorial and let people skip it since it cuts out so many players.

[bleak pike]

Got even worse once I joined a guild

[unique bane]

Redo the game like u did in ARR ffs, FFXIV 1.0 > ARR

😄

[bleak pike]

Or faction

[fringe salmon]

no because skipping the set up for a story that really big then makes the story worse

[unique bane]

following questhub mmo is so done

[unborn spruce]

Then do a summery.

[fringe salmon]

yes reworking is can be done and will/should be done

[unborn spruce]

GW2 did that and it works fine enough.

[bleak pike]

Gw2 is way more tolerable

For a new player

[fringe salmon]

but saying to skip is is like saying in a 3 part movie nobody should watch first movie so you dont know anything

[unborn spruce]

I'd rather sit through a Lord of the Rings length movie about the lore than play ARR ever again.

[bleak pike]

Man I tried not skipping

[unborn spruce]

I regret every moment of playing it, a movie would be better.

[bleak pike]

But the story is so badddddd

[fringe salmon]

for other games that would work but in this case just cutting it just won't work

[unborn spruce]

Idc if it's a random documentary or whatever.

[unique bane]

TBH, I'd like to do the new expansion mainQ, bcuz I'd be getting relevant armor pieces and actually progressing. It'd feel more like a real game world rather than something dead. Hard to describe

[orchid prism]

https://tenor.com/view/alisae-ff14-gif-18078583

[bleak pike]

I get the gist of the story tho

[unborn spruce]

Could be a dev sipping coffee and mumbling into the mic with no clothes on, it's better than ARR.

[fringe salmon]

it is NOT the same game as wow or gw2 so naturally doing the exact same thing that would help those games wouldn't work here

and if you skip I can 100% guarantee you that you will not enjoy the story as much

hence a change/rework is needed instead of a removal

[unborn spruce]

I didn't enjoy the story to begin with, not in ARR or the expansions.

Apparently it gets good, but it was mostly unengaging nonsense for the entire time.

[bleak pike]

Id say swtor is amazing for building stories and presenting them but thay also cost more than any mmo in history 😂

[unborn spruce]

That and Nero is a horrible character.

[fringe salmon]

that's fine but vast majority people do so logically you would want to not cut out content that is making your game so good for the vast majority

[orchid prism]

Also the story falls apart once you hit the first expansion in SWTOR. Cause they couldn't afford the voice actors returning xD

[unborn spruce]

Man can actually go die.

[orchid prism]

How DARE you call Spike horrible?

https://tenor.com/view/btvs-spike-come-on-gif-10270351

[unborn spruce]

[bleak pike]

You mean third expansion?

[unborn spruce]

Look at this jackoff.

Fuck he's awful.

[bleak pike]

First two were still the main cast

So was third actually

[fringe salmon]

if I don't like gunplay I also don't suggest Destiny should remove guns, that's the same here, in that case it's not the right game and it would be stupid to want them to change it to fit my preferences

[unique bane]

@fringe salmon I wana enjoy the actually hard content because rest of the game is snoozefest

[bleak pike]

Fourth they completely went a new direction

[unique bane]

I dont wan't a different game.

[bleak pike]

Different story and cast

[orchid prism]

False - The companions stories cut off immediately after basegame.

No amount of exploding Jabba the Hutt planet DLC will change that 😄

[unique bane]

Give me actually something that my untechie gf couldn't finish

My gf soloes FFXIV with her 10 fps laptop

wtf

[fringe salmon]

then get a boost and if you dont want to pay for it and not play through it to get there then it's not the right game for you, ez as that

[orchid prism]

He'll help you - And bill you for it.

[fringe salmon]

story content or ultimate raids? lmao

[bleak pike]

Sorry yes third

[unborn spruce]

Guy, the point isn't to change the game, it's realizing that FFXIV is a genuinely awful experience until you're at the midgame at the earliest, if I wanna set up the story for myself and a basic combat tutorial like GW2 does, that sounds a LOT better than playing through the incoherent mess of FFXIV.
Doesn't matter that the story might get hurt, it's already so unengaging that it hurts itself by existing.

[unique bane]

pff, who r you to say ffxiv aint the right game for me, I'm a FF fan 🙂

[small comet]

shes a goddess

[bleak pike]

The companions did expand though... Eventually they just scrapped em in the third expansion

[unique bane]

Agree with this

[small comet]

u misspelled OF

[fringe salmon]

but cutting out the first chapter of a book makes the rest really bad and for very many players the story is that important

[unborn spruce]

Again, it hurts itself by existing more than a tutorial would.

Your point is invalid.

[fringe salmon]

if you say "Doesn't matter that the story might get hurt" you are in a vast minority

[orchid prism]

Does a quick google

Google disagrees. Shadow of Revan did not continue companions.

[small comet]

is this swtor talk?

[bleak pike]

They also brought back companions in later expansions... They had new stories and become part of the plot again

[orchid prism]

Pleasant's doing SWTOR apologism 😄

[bleak pike]

@orchid prism

[small comet]

swtor is garbage

[unborn spruce]

Like yes, Quin, it would hurt the story, but it would do so less than ARR in it's current state. The best middle ground is to pull a GW2 and fix up ARR for a relaunch and you let the playerbase go back through if they want.

[bleak pike]

Mate I quit swtor but I know for a fact they expanded on companions

And made the part of the story

[unborn spruce]

Nothing you could possibly do within reason is going to hurt FFIXV more than FFXIV hurts FFXIV.

[small comet]

still shit

[bleak pike]

Especially in eternal throne

Swtor was great as a story but not as an mmorpg

That's why it was pretty mediocre

[fringe salmon]

cutting out story or making it worse when that is what like half the players care for as the only thing will greatly hurt it lol

[orchid prism]

And that's why you can solo most of the game now. They removed group stuff xD

[small comet]

isnt legacy of the sith coming this month

[unborn spruce]

You don't cut the story, you let people do an overview by choice if they don't want to play ARR.

[small comet]

even more gabrage for the collection

[unborn spruce]

I'd rather spend 3 hours watching the story than I would spend 15 hours spending 3 hours watching the story and 12 hours of needless fuckabout.

[fringe salmon]

same thing though, reading a chapter summary can not do the same set up in a book than reading the first chapter

[bleak pike]

I think shadow of revan yes, doesn't do much but they have dialogue, however later expansions we lost all companions but again they came back with their own story and part of the cinematic story etc

[unborn spruce]

Mhmm, so cut out the utter bullshit that is 12 hours of fuckabout.

And let players watch the entire story without the 12 hours of fuckabout needed.

[fringe salmon]

nobody is going to care about a character if you get a summary that says "oh these are your friends, make sure you like them now"

[unborn spruce]

Then skip them to expansions.

[unborn spruce]

I never said that.

[fringe salmon]

but that's what a summary boils down to

[unborn spruce]

I said it'd be better to have a 3 hour lore video than it is to have ARR.

A full LoTR length movie about the story and world would do less damage than ARR does now.

If only because you remove 12 hours of boring nothing.

[small comet]

theres a simple solution here

if you dont like it dont play it

[fringe salmon]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ I think they are well aware of it and as was said they are working on it so I'd just wait on what they do

but going on it from a standpoint where you already don't like it is not a good direction to come from to change it

[unborn spruce]

Bet you they try and patch it to the point of being tolerable but it never quite finishes.

Then at some stage 7 years from now they'll go in and start cutting shit out for a relaunch, probably for game upkeep.

Engine and graphics, that kind of thing.

[unique bane]

@fringe salmon if we ignore the story are you agreeing that the game is a snoozefest for a average two handed gamer?

why cant they make it more interesting

[fringe salmon]

if you don't do the hard content maybe

[unique bane]

What hard content is there for lvl 1-60?

[small comet]

have to say that hard raids are def what make the game nice

[unique bane]

talking pre-endgame here

[orchid prism]

Lategame raid stuff for both ARR and Heavensward?

[unique bane]

ofc

[fringe salmon]

the levelling is not hard yes I agree, but I dont think it should be

[unborn spruce]

Ngl, I found the raids to be kinda gutless feeling in a weird way.

[unique bane]

not talking endgame

[unborn spruce]

Defo action there, but it felt... weirdly flighty.

[unique bane]

talking about the snoofest

[fringe salmon]

and lv 50/60 you can do raids that aren't as good but still challenging if you dont uncap the group

[orchid prism]

You're never going to have a "difficult" MMORPG leveling experience. That's... completely against the formula 😛

(Go away FF11)

[unique bane]

@fringe salmon how? takes 10 hours as a DPS queue

nobody plays old content

[unborn spruce]

@orchid prism We traded game difficulty for mental difficulty.

[small comet]

go away ironman mode in osrs

[fringe salmon]

so stop being a boomer and use discord or party finder

and not only try to queue up with randoms

[orchid prism]

You start up a static group for it obviously. Cause you're not going to clear that on your first evening anyhow xD

[unique bane]

@orchid prism really now? The formula was started by games you couldn't solo you know ;P

[unborn spruce]

Ah yes, that's always the sign of a well maintained set of content in an MMO, needing to hunt people down on Discord.

[unique bane]

yeah..

[unborn spruce]

Epic.

[unique bane]

😄

[fringe salmon]

that argument you are bringing is on the same level as expecting League to have perfect matchmaking

[orchid prism]

Naw. WoW is what MMOs are sculpted from these days. Sorry Boomer 😄

[fringe salmon]

literally not enough people on earth

[unborn spruce]

I don't need to hunt down people on Discord for League.

[unique bane]

Yeah, the dark ages of 2000's and the armageddon that killed good games

[unborn spruce]

Also League doesn't have optimistically 35 hours of fuckabout before ranked.

[fringe salmon]

but the reason is not that too little people do the old content, is that people prefer to team up instead of doing it fully random groups

[unique bane]

Yeah because, the stupid MQ has forced lfg queue bosses lolol

[fringe salmon]

the content is there you can do it and people do it, they just prefer to not do the hard stuff with fully randoms

aside from the super hard content you can get queues for literally anything

[unique bane]

The game is a snoozefest and actively tries to make sure I don't reach endgame

[fringe salmon]

just for those things where you also want to talk usually people dont want to make a worse experience

[unique bane]

It's made for babies that never played before

[unborn spruce]

Ngl, GW2 has a way better gameplay loop.

[unique bane]

Please give me some adversaries that make me not sleep

[ripe tendon]

It's okay guys Nexus Forever has basic combat so soon(tm) all will be well

[fringe salmon]

like I dont care if you don't like the game but there is hard content, it is just not the literal same setup as something else you might prefer

so play something else then

[unborn spruce]

Quin, the point you need to get to hard content in FFXIV is literally 35 hours.

GW2 has you in hard content in maybe 5.

And that hard content lasts to level cap.

And then you start Fractals and Raids.

[unique bane]

more because the game puts you sleep on your keybaord while u try to finish the mQ

so we're looking at 100h

[fringe salmon]

yeah and in warframe it's like 1000hours for the fun to start? yet people still play it

[unique bane]

Warframe is actually fun to start

FFXIV isnt

[unborn spruce]

WF took maybe 10 hours for me to get to the fun bit.

And that was mostly because I spent 4 of it wiki crawling.

[bleak pike]

Also the dungeons you do during arr are pretty boring

[fringe salmon]

people like to play korea grinder games where you litearlly just afk kite mobs with AoE for 1- level cap and people like it and I could never enjoy it

[bleak pike]

I'm a huge wf lover but that simply isn't true lol

[fringe salmon]

doesnt mean they should change a core part of the game

[bleak pike]

Starting wf is awful xD

[ripe tendon]

All MMO's are boring. That's kind of their whole point isn't it?

[unborn spruce]

I found it fun due to modding.

But yeah, the start is boring af.

[unborn spruce]

GW2 ain't. :D

Fully voice acted story is nice.

[bleak pike]

The intro story to Warframe is just as bad as arr but actually getting into wf in general is so dreadful

It's gotten better tho

[unique bane]

Man u started FFXIV later so u don't know how it's to start again. I played when it launched, so it's so boring to do it again. I bet you couldn't do it either if u had to replay the shit parts.

[unborn spruce]

I played ARR just before they snipped like 200 quests out of it.

20 hours of walking.

Never again.

[fringe salmon]

I literally agree they should rework parts but suggestions that would literally remove core parts of the game are stupid

[bleak pike]

I would so pay to skip it but it's so expensive

[unborn spruce]

Quin, the core game is awful.

It needs to fuck off and get replaced by something better.

[fringe salmon]

again, if you dont like it that's fine, but changing what the actual active player base likes is kinda suicide for the game

[unborn spruce]

Not even reworking, that's trying to fix surgery with bandaids, it literally needs to vanish and get replaced entirely.

Reworking is not a good solution.

[bleak pike]

Can't they just make a fancy missleading render like they always do to summerize the arr story

[unborn spruce]

Basically a GW2 tactic but do it better than AN.

Like a full scale high quality thing for the story and such.

I'd be game for it.

[bleak pike]

Gotta love God tier animation to show off your game

[unborn spruce]

Put in some gameplay elements as well, Fable did some stuff like that.

[unique bane]

remove the MQ completely and let me grind XP in high lvl FATE's that are harder. Like literally other good games let you.

^this

[unborn spruce]

I'd agree kinda.

I think more important is removing the needless walking.

[fringe salmon]

congrats now you made a game that is DIFFERENT into the SAME as other games, aka removing a big reason why people prefer it

[unborn spruce]

Without the fuckloads of travel and fetch quests it'd be tolerable.

[unique bane]

U dont want teleport questing too. Then people question why in the fuck

[bleak pike]

Omg I do

Yes I do

[unique bane]

but it's already in the why in the fuck category

[unborn spruce]

Nobody actually likes ARR.

[bleak pike]

It's unbearable running from quest giver to quest giver

[unborn spruce]

It's massively considered overall an awful piece of game.

[bleak pike]

90% of your time is just running and walking

[fringe salmon]

yet without ARR MSQ nobody would end up liking Heavensward story

[unique bane]

yes but then why in the first place? just remove it fully @bleak pike ?

[bleak pike]

Please do remove itn

Yes

[unborn spruce]

shrugs Nobody would give a fuck so long as the activities, story, and world are there.

[unique bane]

YES

[bleak pike]

And just have a cinematic

[unborn spruce]

Remove the boring.

[unique bane]

good idea

[bleak pike]

Recapping the story

[unique bane]

watch 2 hours a movie of when Quintosh enjoyed MQ

[fringe salmon]

then why even have a game at all when we could just have only cutscenes and have it be a show

[unborn spruce]

Quin, we like playing good story.

ARR is not a good story.

How is this hard for you to understand?

[bleak pike]

Because no one likes arr so just bin it

Keep the rest

[unique bane]

@fringe salmon Good idea. Remove the history. Time has passed in FFXIV world. You are starting in the "Now" not 100 years ago.

MMO's evolve. Each day in the world is like 6 mins in real life

[orchid prism]

Great... so... you have no idea what's going on for three expansions xD

Top notch.

[fringe salmon]

how often do I have to say I agree they need to change it, but you can't make a good story when you cut out the entire prologue and introduction

[bleak pike]

Again

Mansen

[unique bane]

So 100 years of history already passed in FFXIV

[bleak pike]

Cinematic

[unborn spruce]

@orchid prism Read the earlier comments, 5head.

[bleak pike]

To recap the story

For arr

[orchid prism]

No amount of movies can explain that much plot in a sensible way 😛

[bleak pike]

Mate what plot

There's hardly any plot

[unborn spruce]

Personally I agree.

[fringe salmon]

making a recap for ARR is like saying watch star wars 5&6 and you somehow expect people to give a shit about Luke

[bleak pike]

It takes 10 years just to get a faction to be nice

[orchid prism]

Spoken like someone who clearly didn't finish it and pay a minimum of attention I see.

[unborn spruce]

For ARR specifically I think a GW2 Living World style thing would be good.

If you're ever done a Living World then you know what I'm thinking of.

[bleak pike]

I don't like reading books when playing a game sorry

[fringe salmon]

yes pacing is an issue that is what everyone says, hence why you still didn't get to a lot of it

[bleak pike]

I get the gist of the story

[unborn spruce]

Agreed. If I want to read a book I'll read a book.

[bleak pike]

It's a complete and utterly boring mess

[unborn spruce]

Actually...

How much better do you think ARR would be if it had voice acting?

Like full VA.

Everything done in VA.

[bleak pike]

A lot better

I watched most cutscenes

[fringe salmon]

yes that's the thing that threw me off when the intro scene did not have VA haha

[unique bane]

Again.. I'd rather grind in korean grinder endlessly (which I am In BDO) than spend my evenings clicking quest giver and shitty rewards.

[unborn spruce]

'Cause GW2 has a fucking great story, and a heap of that enjoyment was in the VA.

Taimi is great.

[bleak pike]

I agree but I also don't

I can respect questing

[fringe salmon]

The reason there is so little VA is time and money budgets, hence I hope when they go back to changing things that includes doing more VA now that they have the money for it

given how good it has become in the later parts

[bleak pike]

Like in swtor everything was awesome, side quests were fully voice acted and cinematic sometimes.

But again budget xD

Some games I like questing some I don't

Xiv is just one of those j don't

[unborn spruce]

Mhmm, so bare minimum take ARR and slice out the entirety of the fetch quests, replace them with something fun, and then apply a healthy dose of VA.

I would then consider ARR good.

[bleak pike]

Like I was at one place, spent ages going to somewhere then going back to that orignal place and repeating

Was fucking annoying

[unborn spruce]

Also cut out 90% of the walking.

95% actually.

[bleak pike]

A lot more bearable with a mount but still boring

[unique bane]

Dont they have horses in FFXIV?

[ripe tendon]

and expand golden saucer by at least 200%

[bleak pike]

Yes but you have to wait till lvl 25

[unique bane]

Duh

[bleak pike]

Iirc

[unborn spruce]

Get fucked nerd, you don't get that for ages.

• FFXIV

[unique bane]

Well game has a lot of invisible walls so I kinda understand

[fringe salmon]

you have npc-horse once you go to places once if you talk to the npc for it

[unique bane]

You'd just be bumpin'

[fringe salmon]

and you do get flying for all of ARR at the end

[unborn spruce]

Ok cool.

[bleak pike]

Better than staring off with a donkey like in bdo during its earlier days

[fringe salmon]

but that is something that also added later so some invisiable walls still

[unborn spruce]

So I can skip the horrible story after I finish it.

[unique bane]

BDO honestly became tolerable after getting my 171% speed arduanatt

[bleak pike]

Haha

[unique bane]

the old game sucked

[bleak pike]

I disagree

I think It got worse

[unborn spruce]

The strat for GW2 is getting the Raptor in the beginning.

[bleak pike]

Then again i was ahead of most

[unborn spruce]

Very fast land mount, super useful.

[bleak pike]

In a bit more of a favourable position

And I had tier 8 for a long time

With charge/two seater/drift, insta accell etc

With maxed out horse gear

I was also guru trader

[unique bane]

eww

😄

[bleak pike]

Trading used to be the best thing In the game

I retired from grinding and not long I was out profiting everyone

Each journey would be like 500m

Back then

[unique bane]

BDO is nice casually playing it but I'm insta gone when something actually good releases with PvE content that is hard. Tho BDO has hard content these days, just solo, no grp stuff

[bleak pike]

The the economy now is weird

[unborn spruce]

Return to Minecraft, by far the best game ever made.

[bleak pike]

I also didn't like the combat revamp

[unique bane]

nothing good exists atm

[unborn spruce]

Mod library. <3

[bleak pike]

I'm waiting for crimson

[ripe tendon]

Nothing good has existed for years

[unique bane]

truer words never been said

[unborn spruce]

Minecraft has existed for years.

Nothing good exists inside the game.

Big F.

Reject MMOs.

Return to Steve.

[bleak pike]

The problem is the genre in general is stale

[unique bane]

Because its too carebear

[bleak pike]

Not just that

Nothing is evolving

Everything is either going backwards or staying the same

[unique bane]

Nothing can kill me anymore I became a god in the last decade

[bleak pike]

Boring mechanics

[unique bane]

Devs are afraid of killing their customers

idk why

[bleak pike]

Tab targeting combat for example is a complete and utter joke

[unborn spruce]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, that's actually interesting.

[bleak pike]

If you release it now

[unborn spruce]

New World just turned out to be fucking awful.

[fringe salmon]

are yous ure? WoW is quite well at killing their game

[feral ferry]

https://c.tenor.com/dKCKNaAi1OcAAAAM/eldentring.gif

[unborn spruce]

And aside from New World when did we get a major MMO release of any kind?

[bleak pike]

Elden ring is a sp Co op

Ya pleb

[unique bane]

@unborn spruce lolol NW theres a new exploit every day that kills the game how can something so dead be more deader everyday?

[unborn spruce]

Game was dead long before the exploits.

[ripe tendon]

bruh, NW was worth it

just to watch the shit show

[unique bane]

yeh for sure

[unborn spruce]

When Amazon decided to make 600 servers was the death knell.

[bleak pike]

New world to me is still a survival

[ripe tendon]

I'm so glad that game exists now.

[bleak pike]

I played most of my time on it before they. Revamped it

[unborn spruce]

Now there's no player population, game is dead because the economy is dead.

[ripe tendon]

NW should've just been another survival game like ARK or something but they just had to add MMO on the side

[unique bane]

Does that game actually kill customers? Or out of boredom? 😄

If the first I gotta try

[bleak pike]

130k rn

Still pretty healthy

[unborn spruce]

Sure but that's not true at all.

130k split between 600 servers.

[bleak pike]

I love watching the gsme burn

[unique bane]

130k is loads, but idk how they can still play it without any content whatsoever and godmode bugs

[bleak pike]

But

[unborn spruce]

There isn't enough driving force for an economy.

[bleak pike]

They'll merge

[ripe tendon]

Personally, World Seed is my new jam for the next 2 or 3 days until I get tired of it

[unborn spruce]

shrugs Assuming they do they'll have to deal with the bugs.

[unique bane]

Heck, I'd rather play indie mmorpgs with 10k+ pops than these shitty games. I wish Project Gorgon was better and got more content faster.

[bleak pike]

Is Halo infinite in maint rn

[ripe tendon]

I hope it's in permanent maint

[bleak pike]

Cos it's at 40k and 120k 24h peak

[ripe tendon]

343 is just a bunch of incompetent fucks. I can't wait to see the shitshow that is the campaign

I hope to be surprised though

[bleak pike]

But so far

Irs been amazing

[unborn spruce]

Agreed.

[ripe tendon]

it's a dogshit shooter

[unborn spruce]

Infinite is incredible, they just need to fix up the cosmetic issues and it's great.

Feels like a Halo 3 and 4 hybrid.

[ripe tendon]

yall are out of your minds

[small comet]

what i have seen doesnt make me wanna play infinite at all

more like stay away even more

[unique bane]

I hope Ashes of Creation and Pantheon won't suck. Basically the only western mmorpgs that have a chance to be good. Will see.

[unborn spruce]

Personally I really like it.

Biggest gripe is the grenades, those are overtuned.

Otherwise it ain't bad.

[unique bane]

Riot MMO will be like WoW. Snoozefest and maybe some little hard endgame.

[ripe tendon]

It's just another console feeling shooter but it happs to also be on PC

[bleak pike]

We know ashes will

By the time it comes out it'll already be dated

[unborn spruce]

It's free and well made, I'm all for it.

What's your other choice for competitive shooter? CS?

[ripe tendon]

it's free, sure I'll give it that

honestly? I find Cod to be better than infinite and I despise cod

[unborn spruce]

KEK

[unique bane]

Engines are very upgradeable these days, atleast public engines are. I'm not sure they'll be dated anymore.

[unborn spruce]

Dude you are delusional.

[unique bane]

It's not a sure thing like before

[ripe tendon]

at least cod feels like a goddamn shooter and not some console bullshit

[unborn spruce]

You are so, so delusional omg.

Current cod feels awful.

Even compared to old games it feels awful.

Generic as all fuck, poorly made.

[ripe tendon]

I mean I haven't touched the new one. I last played...something not completely new

[bleak pike]

I msan

[unborn spruce]

An excuse of a game, tbh.

[bleak pike]

Opinions

[ripe tendon]

as is halo inf

it's Halo in name and nothing else

[unique bane]

if u want something cool and competitive check out midair community edition

[ripe tendon]

I mean I guess taking damage behind cover every game is Halo since it was an xbox title

[unborn spruce]

Eeeeh, no. it feels like a Halo game.

[unique bane]

but its prob too hard for normies

[unborn spruce]

You probably either don't remember old Halo or haven't played in ages, it feels like Halo.

[ripe tendon]

and on top of the bullshit they try to pull with their battlepass

at least they had Fiesta for a few days. That was tolerable

[unborn spruce]

I can't blame them for the cosmetics, tbh.

[ripe tendon]

and holy christ the maps lol womp womp

[unborn spruce]

I just cannot.

[ripe tendon]

of course you can't blame them for cosmetics it's free to play

[bleak pike]

The fuck

It's the most halo feeling like game in years

[ripe tendon]

it's the insane grind built into the battlepass and only getting XP from shit challenges

[bleak pike]

MP anyway

[small comet]

no

just no

[bleak pike]

I mean I don't care for cosmetics

[ripe tendon]

considering how shit 4 and 5 was that means nothing

[bleak pike]

But it does suck

[unborn spruce]

Like let's say we have the 120k playerbase each in 12 player matches, this is 10,000 dedicated servers needing to run at the same time. Assume you can somehow push 4 servers per CORE and we're still talking about 2500 cores of performance that they have to rent.

That shit is not cheap.

[ripe tendon]

5 was the worst halo ever and 4 was extremely meh

[bleak pike]

I hated 5 and dislikes 4

[bleak pike]

Agreed

[ripe tendon]

yeah servers are hard to come by for the indie teams of 343 and Microsoft

[unborn spruce]

Sure, but the game is free.

They lose on it by default.

I can understand battle passes, but nothing else.

[ripe tendon]

Halo Infinite Grind was the official title, I believe

[unborn spruce]

Though tbh I'd love it if the cosmetic shop fucked off and the cosmetics were on challenges, then have 50 level Battle Passes.

Once every 2 months or so.

Maybe 3.

Also free the color palette.

Just give like a photoshop color picker and let us use that.

Other than that I'm pretty damn ok with Infinite.

It gets massive bonus points for having the best vehicle in Halo history.

[bleak pike]

Honestly

[ripe tendon]

so

if you say anything other than Gungoose

I know you're wrong about everything

[unborn spruce]

Fuck off, heretic.

Wasp is great.

[ripe tendon]

Good to know you're wrong about everything

only Gungoose matters

[unborn spruce]

<3

[bleak pike]

I just don't care about cosmetics, not like I did reach

[unborn spruce]

Wasp is superior.

[ripe tendon]

Vehicles are weird though. They're super weak and so easily countered

[bleak pike]

Wasp sucks

[ripe tendon]

but I guess that's somewhat better than lasting all match

[unborn spruce]

Fall over and stub your toe.

[bleak pike]

They butchered my banshee

[ripe tendon]

thankfully most people are morons and don't bother to shoot a vehicle

[unborn spruce]

Look at this thing.

It's beautiful.

[ripe tendon]

sniper rifle op

fuck your banshee, 3 shots to kill it lol

[unborn spruce]

Ngl tho, grapple hook is awesome.

That needed to be in Halo for ages.

[bleak pike]

https://youtu.be/9igIGfYc5WY

[ripe tendon]

it's fun but the repulsor is my favorite for embarrassment

got a wraith shot? Repulsor don't care.

[bleak pike]

Wasp is quite weak imo

The missiles anyway

[unborn spruce]

It's weak kinda.

You more than likely haven't noticed, but it fits everywhere.

And there's a weird lack of kill zones.

So you can just ambush spawns with it.

[ripe tendon]

it doesn't fit between the two building on that horrendous map that's too big for 4v4

but too small for 12v12

[unborn spruce]

Yes it does?

[ripe tendon]

nah it gets stuck and then takes consistent damage

[unborn spruce]

I was playing Infinite today and flew it through the gap.

It fits, but it's tight.

[ripe tendon]

esp with their glorious ceiling height

[unborn spruce]

It do fit but it's just really tight.

Idk how you're getting it killed.

[ripe tendon]

not to mention their god awful spawning system

Pretty sure they don't have line of sight check enabled for matchmaking and ranked spawns

it's just an option for customs

[bleak pike]

Guess I'm weird

[ripe tendon]

because the ceiling height is lower or the same as the top of the buildings so you can get stuck between the invisible ceiling and the two buildings

[bleak pike]

Cos I've been a major fan since halo ce as I grew up with it, halo is my favorite game or all time

And im liking halo invite so far mostly

We'll see how the campaign is I guess

Not the biggest fan of it being open world

[unborn spruce]

It isn't open world.

Semi open.

[bleak pike]

Semi open world is still open world

Otherwise it wouldn't be called semi open world

:p

[unborn spruce]

Not true open, I mean.

[unique bane]

https://wccftech.com/dune-open-world-survival-game-adds-nukklear-as-funcoms-co-developer/

[bleak pike]

@fading spade this bothers me

[fading spade]

Hmm?

[bleak pike]

snow feels plastic

or well looks

[fading spade]

Oohh

Welcome to shaders

Especially the Nvidia RTX ones in bedrock

Everything is covered with a thin layer of plastic

[young hill]

So do barbies

[young hill]

My spartan is not one anymore, they are many

[barren pewter]

I want you on my fireteam

[young hill]

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/r78moa/halo_infinite_has_a_major_desync_problem_which_is/

Well there it is a lot of consolidated proof to a single conclusion

This probably is the best explanation for the aim, the awful ping, strange frame behavior on very high framerates and gameplay vs theater.

On the plus side 343i also took notice of this today and really looking into it, so sometime soon I would expect this to be resolved.

343i did themselves a favor probably by releasing a wide beta

[orchid prism]

He is... Special

[orchid prism]

30 minutes till BUNNYPOCALYPSE'

https://tenor.com/view/bunnies-rabbits-bunny-attack-gif-3553410

[orchid prism]

Aside from the fact that servers are crashing left and right... not bad for a first minute queue xD

[bleak pike]

That's kinda impressive ngl

[orchid prism]

Lot of people are at like +3k now xD

I'm already in and doing the new story.

[bleak pike]

Ah

Lol

[orchid prism]

Here we go!

[bleak pike]

Time to uninstall

[orchid prism]

[crisp parcel]

Anyone use the gamepad movement in hunt showdown? It's useful for sneakypeeking or getting just the right angle in a building

[bleak pike]

Good to know.

[crisp parcel]

I was surprised when it just worked but pleasantly so

I'll have to figure if there's a way to combine the two control schemes since there are things you can do in one and not the other

[bleak pike]

@unique bane they revamped classes again? (bdo)

[severe nacelle]

Any csgo/valorant noobs here try to cheat their way to the top yet with the dks feature?

[crisp parcel]

DKS instantly makes you LE in CSGO and you will unbox a knife on the first try

[fading spade]

"Minecraft set to be 30% faster on Linux with Mesa drivers | GamingOnLinux" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/12/minecraft-30-percent-faster-on-linux-with-mesa-drivers/

Damn it....I need to get an AMD GPU so badly

[fallow bronze]

mesa drivers are poor mans drivers right?

[unborn spruce]

Now the question is less 'is the driver faster' and 'is it faster than Windows'.

[fading spade]

Does it have to be? Minecraft plays really well on Linux already

[unborn spruce]

Not my point.

[fading spade]

I can definitely run shaders faster than on windows currently and I have a Nvidia GPU

[unborn spruce]

My point is that is it an improvement over windows, or is it equal performance.

I'd wager improvement over windows, but it doesn't really say how much.

[fading spade]

Idk how they compare in performance
I just know that I can get more fps using shaders on Linux than on windows

[unborn spruce]

30% faster is good, but 30% faster than... what exactly? Lmao

[fading spade]

Faster than before this update

Duh

[unborn spruce]

Yeah but that's just comparing against yourself, kinda shitty.

I just wish they put some comparative performance in their thing instead of a useless 'it's 30%' faster.

[fading spade]

You saying that there is no reason to get a performance boost unless it's to compete against another OS?

[unborn spruce]

No I'm saying that saying 30% performance boost is meaningless unless it's compared against something that isn't itself.

Like a 60% boost in CS:GO performance is great, but performance on what against what?

It doesn't exactly say much of anything beyond 'some kind of number go brrrr'.

[fading spade]

So....
If your computer could only run Minecraft at 20fps
And you saw that a new version of the driver will give you a 30% performance boost

You would not care, because it's not aiming to beat out a rival OS?

[unborn spruce]

Read the above?

[fading spade]

Pretty sure everyone would be happy with a 30% boost

Regardless of OS

Or game
Or whatever

[unborn spruce]

Yes but the OS is irrelevant.

[fading spade]

Ye

[unborn spruce]

Reading through the article says nothing.

[fading spade]

It always was in this discussion

You brought in windows on your own

[unborn spruce]

This is the entire thing, it doesn't compare against anything.

[fading spade]

I know I read it

[unborn spruce]

All it says is 'number go brr' essentially, there's no actual information there.

Ergo why should anyone with eyes give a shit if it's not actually comparing against something established?

[fading spade]

But it's still a good thing that there is a performance boost

Not everything needs to be compared to something else

[unborn spruce]

Sure the performance boost is good, but it's not clear whatsoever as to how much of a boost that realistically is.

Are we going from 90FPS to 120FPS? 2 to 3?

There's no comparison.

[fading spade]

Oh yeah

20fps to having more than 30fps after this is totally not clear to see how much a boost that is

[unborn spruce]

raised eyebrow And it's not clear to how many FPS is expected or on what hardware.

[fading spade]

Mesa drivers are used mostly on Intel integrated graphics
So those players will get a nice boost
And also AMD users

[unborn spruce]

Beyond 30% and AMD/Intel.

That is not much info to go off.

[ashen lark]

I mean you don’t have point of comparison against other stuff, but if you already have the hardware you know what’s the performance boost gonna be which is nice

Minecraft is not easy to directly compare to other hardware

Too many variables

[unborn spruce]

This. No point of comparison doesn't really tell me anything.

[fading spade]

Anyone on intel integrated graphics or AMD GPUs will get 30% better performance

What more info you need?

[bleak pike]

@fading spade

[ashen lark]

Doesn’t you, but does to people who already have it, and I guess they are the target audience

[bleak pike]

Did you see the Linux tablet

[unborn spruce]

Apparently it's both Intel and AMD, so idk is it only for Intel? @fading spade

[fading spade]

The Jingpad A1?

[fading spade]

I legit just explained that

AMD GPU and Intel integrated graphics

Cause Nvidia uses their own shit

[unborn spruce]

Yes and now we're back to no comparisons.

[fading spade]

And?

Do you need one?

[unborn spruce]

Is the boost 30% on an iGPU and a 6900XT?

[fading spade]

It runs better on these GPUs after the update
Which is nice

Ye

Both

[unborn spruce]

Will it 30% on mid end hardware? What about old iGPUs?

[bleak pike]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-agree-yup-nod-gif-14017499

Me want even tho it has flaws

Including price

[unborn spruce]

This is the information not in the article, and that's what makes it shitty.

Boost good, lack of comparisons and info bad.

[fading spade]

Intel integrated graphics
AND
AMD GPUs

[bleak pike]

Also I managed to get half a funding for my deck

[fading spade]

What's so hard to figure out?

[bleak pike]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-sweet-hell-yes-pump-it-gif-3532253

[unborn spruce]

rolls eyes My dude, that doesn't say much of anything.

[fading spade]

Aha! ❤️

[unborn spruce]

It's taking massively broad statements and assuming the umbrella catches everything, you should know better than that.

[fading spade]

Yeah
It's just to inform people about the new driver version and the main feature which is the boost

[bleak pike]

*APUs

[unborn spruce]

Hell, what about APUs actually?

It's an iGPU and AMD, the boost must be 60%.

Fuck I wish.

60% more perf on an iGPU would be so nice.

[fading spade]

ANYTHING USING MESA GETS THE BOOST

Gosh damn it man

[unborn spruce]

C'mon, admit the post is bad.

Low effort post, kek.

[fading spade]

Only from your perspective of wanting everything to compete with other OSs

[unborn spruce]

We operate on forum rules in a good society, low effort shit isn't appreciated.

[fading spade]

Xd

[unborn spruce]

At least, at least put some performance numbers in there for popular GPUs and then estimated performance.

Then idk, maybe some info regarding release date.

[bleak pike]

What are we arguing about

[unborn spruce]

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/12/minecraft-30-percent-faster-on-linux-with-mesa-drivers/ Just this being low effort af.

[bleak pike]

Wow that's shitty

[fading spade]

Aeon decided that the post is bad and would only be a good article if they compared Minecraft performance on mesa drivers to performance on windows

[unborn spruce]

Ikr.

[bleak pike]

Though I agree with aeon I do disagree with him on Windows

No reason to compare windows

[fading spade]

Yep

[unborn spruce]

Disagree.

[fading spade]

Exactly

[unborn spruce]

Reasons to compare Windows and Linux.

Especially since both are so close.

[bleak pike]

It's an article about Linux improvements not Linux vs Windows

[fading spade]

That's not the point of the article

[bleak pike]

Lol

[fading spade]

Yes.. thisl

[bleak pike]

That's like making benchmarks everytime wine updates

[fading spade]

Any improvement to Linux gaming is good

[unborn spruce]

Always good to see performance versus things. With a Linux update I'd be interested to see how the update compares against both it's past self and other platforms.

[bleak pike]

It's really not

[fading spade]

Past self..... Yes
This article compares it's past self

[bleak pike]

It's good to see what you'd expect on Linux and what you gain on the new drivers

Since its about new drivers in Linux

[unborn spruce]

It really does not. It says 30% more perf than before, which is great if you're currently playing MC on Linux but not useful for anyone else.

[bleak pike]

And it says on Linux not 30% faster than Windows

[unborn spruce]

Low effort post is low effort.

[ashen lark]

No

It just has different target audience

Being already Linux users

[unborn spruce]

Ah, so now all Linux users play minecraft on MESA drivers.

[bleak pike]

Low effort post I agree but I disagree with your whole windows vs Linux :p

[fading spade]

Yeah....
Usually people using Linux either have Intel integrated graphics or AMD GPUs

Because no one wants to deal with Nvidia drivers on linux anymore

So this post is incredibly relevant

Fuck Nvidia can't wait to not have a Nvidia GPU

[unborn spruce]

Epic, so we're making low effort posts because of idiot conditions.

Very epic.

[fading spade]

Idiot conditions?

You saying using Intel or AMD is being an idiot?

Or using Linux

[unborn spruce]

Assuming Nvidia on Linux bad, which it is, and then assume nobody with an Nvidia card is playing Minecraft on Linux.

This is pepega brain thinking.

[fading spade]

A lot do

Like me

This post isn't relevant to me

[unborn spruce]

And so the natural progression to this is making a low effort post that is only appealing to a tiny minority.

So very epic.

[fading spade]

I'm still glad that Linux gaming is being improved for people with open source drivers

Any improvement to open source drivers is great

[unborn spruce]

And hell, even then this could be improved relative to that tiny minority.

Why are there no charts for previous iGPU/AMD performance of various kinds?

Not like everyone is working on the same hardware, if I was looking at buying an AMD card this is kinda important information. Do the 6700XT be making more sense than the 6900XT?

This post gives me 0 good info, may as well go somewhere else.

[crisp parcel]

I mean I read the post and would have assumed I would be getting a 30% uplift in performance if I was using the drivers as compared to before

[unborn spruce]

Which is great if you're playing and will continue to play on your current hardware.

[fading spade]

Which is amazing information to get if you run integrated graphics especially since you are most likely below 30fps currently

[crisp parcel]

that's the point of the post tho

[unborn spruce]

But maybe it makes more sense given the 30% boost to buy something new.

[fading spade]

This new driver will get you above 30

[unborn spruce]

Hence more info would result in a better post, if slightly.

Otherwise you would literally need to grab a benchmark set for AMD hardware and add a rough 30% onto it.

[crisp parcel]

I guess you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who isn't using linux

[unborn spruce]

He says, thinking I'm not suffering Proxmox. :(

[crisp parcel]

in which case yes it is not useful info, you only know that Linux Mesa improved 30%

[fading spade]

Why would you run Minecraft or any game on proxmox?

[unborn spruce]

Proxmox is light af, my dedi server runs it and when I switch to Threadripper I'm probably integrating a LAN gaming system onto it.

[fading spade]

You can run the Minecraft server but that doesn't need GPU performance

[unborn spruce]

Mhmm, and if I VM Windows/Linux and game from that?

[fading spade]

I thought you can't just a GPU in VM unless you did passthrough

[unborn spruce]

I lose something nearish 20% performance because VM, this would be very interesting to a power user.

But oh wait, oh wait shit.

Useless low effort post.

F

[unborn spruce]

You can't.

[fading spade]

Yes

[unborn spruce]

Fortunately I have 26 GPUs. :D

[fading spade]

I know....

Xd

[unborn spruce]

[crisp parcel]

totally off topic but I somehow ended up with 64 gigs of ram in my computer, either of you know of a good use for it?

[unborn spruce]

Hmm.

You could host MC servers.

[crisp parcel]

might set up a Minecraft server for friends or something lol

[unborn spruce]

Or do some crypto mining.

[crisp parcel]

isn't that GPU intensive rather than memory?

[unborn spruce]

Iirc Chia has some acceleration shit you can do with plotting but it needs a lot of RAM.

[trim rock]

lol chia

[unborn spruce]

[trim rock]

Does anyone even care about it still?

[unborn spruce]

Ikr.

Haven't heard about it for ages, so I doubt.

[fading spade]

Can't wait for my Anbernic to arrive :D

[unborn spruce]

Apparently not nearly as much as they did a year ago.

But it's still fairly expensive, so I guess.

[fading spade]

Going by their last numbers, there would be approximately 1,396,640 monthly active Linux users on Steam.

Ayy
Linux gaming above 1% on Steam hardware survey

Wonder how much the steam deck will affect this

[novel umbra]

Not much

[fading spade]

Wonder what percentage of Deck users will immediately install windows

And then complain about how the software experience is shit because the hardware and software are designed to work together using SteamOS

It'll be like running android on a Switch
Possible but not the best idea

[young hill]

Yeah but android could run well on the swirch

I cannot say the same for Windows

[fading spade]

True

Can the joycons charge on switch usong android now?

[young hill]

No idea

[fading spade]

And connect without using Bluetooth

When on the console

[small comet]

no one will install windows on the deck

[fading spade]

Yes they will

[small comet]

the people who buy it either know the limits or are sheeple

[young hill]

But tony how will people feel if they cannot see the insides

[fading spade]

Or they want their games on the go

The ones that don't run from steam

And use anticheat not supported on Linux

[young hill]

Valve stated in regards to that

[fading spade]

Even though battleye and EAC are on Linux now, the game dev themselves need to send a request per game to enable it ..... So not many devs will bother doing that

[young hill]

Might be worth circumnavigating it

Even if people start hacking on it

That is much smaller population

Most games have a report button anyways as well

[fading spade]

Pretty sure they would get a lot less unban requests if they did enable it for Linux

Due to all the Linux players who got banned for being on Linux

[young hill]

Huh

That sounds so stupid

[fading spade]

Fixed my typo

[young hill]

Why would anticheat ban for being on linux

[fading spade]

It does

"modified software" or "unsupported software"

[young hill]

Well then may be even more worth to crack the anti heat then

[fading spade]

There was a game a while ago that banned anyone who had a browser tab with "cheat" or "hack" in the tab title

[young hill]

....

I guess they may have been attempting to cheat

But that just sounds like the game controls your pc at that point

[fading spade]

That was the logic

"might attempt to cheat"

[young hill]

Well the likelihood is probably very high

[fading spade]

Yes
But if anyone was serious about it, they'd probably know what to look up without those words on the title

[young hill]

But those terms step outside of games anyways

Anyway whatever

I do not see why valve just borks anticheat or something

So whatever people wanted to play it will run

They already have hardware and software control

[trim rock]

Because then the anticheats devs would bruh and fix their anticheats and then bans

[young hill]

Sigh

So they will only care when it is harmful to them

[unborn spruce]

Obviously.

[young hill]

I just mean would they not want a larger playerbase

[unborn spruce]

The difference is minimal.

[trim rock]

I think they're just worried about cheating, even though I'm sure most cheating skiddies are real fucking scared of Linux

[young hill]

Yeah which makes it strange

[unborn spruce]

Nah.

Think about it from a different perspective.

[fading spade]

I like ad blocker

[unborn spruce]

They remove 1 in 100 people at very most, and in exchange the major publishers think Steam is safer than an alternative that doesn't enforce anti cheat.

The publishers are where the money is, so why would valve give a fuck about 1 in 100?

[fading spade]

I know a game with no anticheat
And no one uses hacks or cheats in anyway whatsoever

[unborn spruce]

Doesn't matter.

It's averages we're talking.

[fading spade]

I think a lot of it is feeling good from breaking anticheat

[unborn spruce]

Activision doesn't want hackers in cod, so Valve enforces it.

And because of that Steam can get a shitload of players.

Remember, you're not the customer, you're the product.

[trim rock]

New CoDs are not on Steam anymore though

[unborn spruce]

The example remains stable.

Any major publisher holding on Steam is going to be operating like that.

[fading spade]

Where are they now?

[trim rock]

Battlenet

[unborn spruce]

They don't want cheaters since it means less people want to play, which means less money.

[fading spade]

Oh

Forgot battlenet exists

[unborn spruce]

For good reason, nothing happens there anymore.

[fading spade]

I remember needing to use it for BF3 and 4
Had to login to the web browser
Search for mp matches on the website and lauch the game that way

Buggy piece of shit

[trim rock]

That's Battlelog

[fading spade]

O.o

[trim rock]

Bruh

Anyway I think the opt-in Wine/Proton compatibility for some anticheats is probably the best compromise Valve managed to make happen, and we should just encourage devs to flip the switch and watch the cheaters roll in enjoy all the Deck gamers playing the game

[fading spade]

Yeah
It's going to make people less angry than if they forced devs to enable it
But now devs have the option not to enable it and a lot won't

"2% of players on my game use Linux? Nah, too much effort to enable this"

[unborn spruce]

The core problem here is that Linux is shit to use for basically anything gaming if you're a dedicated gamer.

Now if you're a power user it's not an issue, but if you're just using it to game it's a god awful experience.

[fading spade]

Nah, if games support it, just as easy as Windows
and a lot of games run mostly ok on proton, you just enable that for all titles on Steam settings

[unborn spruce]

it really is not.

You're talking from the view of a power user.

[fading spade]

if a game is outside of steam...then you need to know shit

[unborn spruce]

Just installing Linux to begin with is one of those things that bars a good 80% of everybody from an easy time.

Picking a distro alone is fucked a lot of the time.

[fading spade]

I still go by the fact that the Windows installer is more difficult to use

1: It forces you to do partitioning
2: Doesnt show drive names, just each partition and "Drive 0, 1, 2 etc" beside it + disk size
3: Linux installers show the drive name + let you choose to install to the drive automatically so you dont need to know the fact youd need to remove all partitions

[trim rock]

Let's be honest here if you're installing an OS you're already beyond the "average gamer"

[fading spade]

if you have two drives of the same size, you going to be fucked

[fading spade]

Yeah... most users tbh

[unborn spruce]

Lmfao no.

Most people can't install Windows, the fuck fantasy land are you living in?

I'd say maybe 30% of gamers can do it.

[fading spade]

When I had to reinstall Windows, I have two drives that are 256GB
I only knew which one had my Linux install on it due to the partition count, cause it has 3 partitions and not two like the windows drive

[unborn spruce]

Optimistically less than 10 percent of the population won't struggle with it.

[wheat kraken]

My drives are named

And last time I remember. It does show named drives

[fading spade]

so are mine

It doesnt show drive names

[wheat kraken]

It's probably due to me naming them on windows

[unborn spruce]

I won't lie to you, Lana, you're making a shit point.

[fading spade]

I named Hell V10 on Windows and Games

[unborn spruce]

Installing Windows is harder than installing Linux, yeah.

But.

Most people aren't even doing that.

[fading spade]

Im aware

[unborn spruce]

They're buying prebuilds.

[trim rock]

HMMMM I WONDER WHY

[fading spade]

yeah

[unborn spruce]

Using Linux is worse by default.

[wheat kraken]

Probably due to people being far more comfortable with windows & gaming being way easier on it as well

[unborn spruce]

Personally I only partially agree.

I'd say most steam games yes.

But like...

Installing Java, I can't count how many people I've seen fail that task.

[fading spade]

Imma boot into my windows ISO and check if they are named

[wheat kraken]

I'd say all games. Not every game is going to work well with Linux unless they have specific builds

[fading spade]

From USB

Oo... Now they are

I guess the version I last installed they didn't show drive name

[unborn spruce]

So we're actually now at Linux just being harder by default.

Kek

[fading spade]

Nah
You still are forced to deal with partitions

[unborn spruce]

I'd say the nightmare of the Distros is worse than partitions.

[trim rock]

I think we'll just wait for when the Deck is out, there's a purely gaming focused device with Linux preinstalled

[bleak pike]

Linux is pretty easy tbh for basic use

Every distro has a store

Most applications are just like using a phone or tablet

[trim rock]

Problem is Windows users are conditioned to Googling for <software name> install which won't do

[fading spade]

Installing Linux , you just need to know what drive you want and that's it

On windows, you need to know what drive you want, hope you have a drive name, have to be aware you need to delete all partitions and create a new empty one

[unborn spruce]

This.

This is a massive problem.

[bleak pike]

You can

[unborn spruce]

Not for everything.

[bleak pike]

Debian anyway

[trim rock]

Of course that's thankfully being solved with things like flatpaks

[bleak pike]

Most applications you just run the deb file and install

Like an exe

[fading spade]

Yeah
Debian based systems require you to hunt down Deb files online

Same as exe files

[bleak pike]

Well. No

Lana

[fading spade]

Most of the time

[bleak pike]

No

[fading spade]

You need to for Minecraft

And Spotify

[bleak pike]

No

[fading spade]

Unless you use flatpak

[bleak pike]

You don't

[wheat kraken]

I've wanted to pull my hair out more than once because some fucking package was impossible to find due to some bug in package upload

[bleak pike]

Spotify etc is usually on the store or via terminal

With ububtu or debian packages

That are pre configured

Not packaged

Packages

What's the term

Repo?

[fading spade]

Spotify isn't in any store due to it not being open source

It's either in the store cause it's a flatpak
Which require users to know what a flatpak is

[bleak pike]

I can literally do apt install Spotify

[fading spade]

Or vevajss the distro doesn't care about software being strictly open source

Wut

[bleak pike]

Right out of the box

[unborn spruce]

Did you not know that, Lana?

[fading spade]

Did you add the PPA

?

[unborn spruce]

You can just apt install basic apps.

[bleak pike]

Most have ppa already on

[unborn spruce]

Well, in most distros.

[bleak pike]

Most debian distros have ppas pre installed with most used apps

[fading spade]

Last time I used anything based on Ubuntu or Debian, you needed to add a PPA or use Flatpak to get Spot ify

[bleak pike]

Especially ububtu based ones

[wheat kraken]

I mean you could refrain from using Spotify

[fading spade]

I dont xd

[bleak pike]

Spotify is love

Spotify is life

[fading spade]

I used to use it

[wheat kraken]

I've been using apple music

[fading spade]

Ew

[wheat kraken]

Ngl, it's rather nice

[fading spade]

Apple

[wheat kraken]

Apple Music is like their M1.

[bleak pike]

I don't like apple music

[wheat kraken]

It's the only good thing they've done.

[bleak pike]

Or well

I didn't when j tried it

Gui prob updated a lot

[wheat kraken]

It's app is a little... Annoying sometimes. Clicking library or whatever should take me to my song list.

[bleak pike]

Idk I like Spotify, if does everything perfect for me and is open, also I pay fuck all for it.

I have apple music though via family

And apple TV

Just choose not to use it

[wheat kraken]

I was wanting to try Apple HiFi

So I paid 10$ for 3 months

[bleak pike]

Deezer was great when j used that

But I couldn't justify it

Deezer hifi I mean

Can we all agree youtube music sucks"?

[wheat kraken]

The nice thing about apple music is it's cheaper than most other hifi providers but they it also comes with any package you get

[fading spade]

TBH, youtube music is best for me though I hate the UI sometimes

[wheat kraken]

I use YouTube music on the phone and computer because adfree

[bleak pike]

Isn't apple hifi like

Not even hifi got most tracks

It was like a very few amounts

[wheat kraken]

Most tracks aren't provided in hifi no. Lots are but not every single one

And there are different levels of HiFi

[bleak pike]

I have youtube music via youtube premium

[fading spade]

I like yt music because it works great with my mouse
I have my extra mouse buttons assigned as media keys

[orchid prism]

Wife likes it easy and our Chromecast and WiFi radio only supports Spotify. So that's what we have 🤣

[trim rock]

Chromecast doesn't support YT music? wut

[fading spade]

wut?

[wheat kraken]

I never use media keys unless I'm using the laptop

[fading spade]

It at least supports YT itself?

[trim rock]

Well I wouldn't be surprised with that knowing Google ecks dee

[orchid prism]

The radio is the weak link here. 😄

Poorly phrased on my part.

[bleak pike]

@fading spade do you use YouTube music on your phone much

Ik you use um