oh right winebugs
#🎮│game
trim rock
fading spade
Yeh ;&;
dense pond
About that shiny vac ban: Can't even play other games without getting veto'd asap. More games into the bin.
young hill
proper cargo
Well, you dont just get vac banned for no reason.
frosty dew
friend got a vac ban on his account because he used a trainer for cod mw2, AFTER they said due to the age it's okay to do so.
... it's always fun in a round of csgo when the enemies check our profiles, because he is usually the worst of us.
imagine the toxity that ensues :D
fringe salmon
no he just used a vm bc he's a linux nerd
proper cargo
lol. your so bad, you use a cheat to worsen your score so you end up with noobs XD
i know alot of people that got a vac ban for stupid reasons. "in a rage for this game, cause its such a stupid game, i downloaded a cheat for it, and then i got vac banned and now i tell people im happy i literally wasted money on a game i got banned from"
i think black ops 2 still holds the record for that
i mean, 1 guy that i talked to on teamspeak in my clan at the time got vac banned in a game he just purchased, like, 2 days later. he instantly made a refund through paypal and got blocked from his account. he continued to sue valve and like, 2 months later he won. gained back access to his account. ofcourse without the game, but they also removed the vac ban. however, that vac ban was removed 2 hours later after he got his account blocked cause it was during the time that those vac bans appeared on random accounts.
so all he had to do was cook dinner or whatever, and go back online and notice he could play again, instead of having to sue valve XD
frosty dew
generally i'd actually recommend waiting a day or two first...
proper cargo
it was entertainment at the time.
we tried to talk him out of it cause we knew that if you tried to get a refund through anything other than steam itself they would block ur account. but nah, he was in rage mode.
fringe salmon
yeah that sounds like a really idiotic move, but also entertaining for others 
small comet
the game is over 5 years old just cheat in it
is nothing someon whos not into cheating would ever trust
keen urchin
Damn, Factorio is getting some hype
fading spade
Wtf is the gta economy?
Shit like a drink or snacks are $2 and then clothes cost like $20,000
fringe salmon
yup
fading spade
I don't understand
small comet
no one does
fringe salmon
you need snacks for gameplay, so they need to be cheap and you often buy a shit ton of it, you easily get multiple millions once you get started so clothes need to cost more or you buy all of it after like a day
would be nothing to get money for then
small comet
i bought all clothes tho
fringe salmon
you also didnt get your money legit
fringe salmon
pretty sure account selling isnt legit either
small comet
i didnt sell one 
trim rock
Imagine buying an account
small comet
imagine grinding money for 20years game time just to buy 1 car
fading spade
why you need snacks?
trim rock
Imagine playing that garbage
fringe salmon
... snacks is what restores your hp
small comet
@fading spade health
small comet
@trim rock its fun with basically limitless money
fringe salmon
it was fun without it too before the hackers and inflation came around
trim rock
I don't think loading screens are very fun even if the number in the corner is gigantic
small comet
@fringe salmon lol so it was fun for like 5 days or so
fringe salmon
till the update with private yachts I'd say
small comet
na hackers were always there
fringe salmon
the later heists were fun again but hackers/inflation were too much at that point
fringe salmon
well yeah, because at the start there was also less incentive to cheat
fringe salmon
I'd say a lot of people who cheated started out with just wanting to make money and then did more
and that initial start only happend to more people bc the stupid inflation
small comet
i just wanted to be driven around by a monkey
fringe salmon
railgun lester stuck on my car was fun to see though I ahve to admit
trim rock
Yeah wish I'd seen goofy shit rather than just making me unable to play
small comet
i miss the days i coded gta5 hacks
fading spade
ooof
small comet
already 5years since i did gta5 hacks
takes me back
to when gta5 hacking was just build a dll, put in folder done
fringe salmon
really? I mean I kinda expected it but hearing it still disappoints me
small comet
#customanticheat
fringe salmon
so you would just replace an existing one and it didnt check validity or what was the deal there
small comet
iirc you just dropped in urs
no replacing needed
it just straight up loaded all dlls
fringe salmon
jfc
small comet
well didnt take long to change
but their protection wasnt the best again
so injectors to just inject any dll quickly popped up
and re: factorio hype
did anything actually change
from early access to 1.0
bleak pike
Prob not
RE: GTA hackers
My friend did it, don't blame him, online is just so shitty and unfair and infested with hackers anyway
placid garden
yeah it’s as simple as a dll
fading spade
hmmmmmmmmmmm
Launch Epic games without the epic launcher 🤔
would this not ban you?
bleak pike
Prob not
I know people do a similar thing to bypass drm
Afaik epic launcher doesn’t need to be opened for games
Just login
Every so often
Depending on the game
fringe salmon
yes EGS is not a drm unless the dev uses it that way, which rarely is the case
proper cargo
yea, but you cant play the game without having the store
you need to have the store installed to play the game, otherwise it wont fire up. unless it is cracked.
i mean, those are the terms of drm right? you need it to play the game.
in that sense, even GOG has drm on it. if you ever need to aquire a new copy of the game, and gog banned your account, or the servers go down for whatever reason, you cant get to your games any more.
hollow sphinx
proper cargo
@vital wyvern let me put it this way, if GOG went down, how would you be able to download the games you bought?
wicked latch
Piratebay or any other site that could still host those installers.
Since they dont require any activation... it is just an installer.
Without any protection
fringe salmon
drm is about managing options of something you have, not the download of it
keen urchin
You can download offline installers from GOG to ease your tinfoil :p
They'd also have to announce shutting down early enough that you would have time to do so
You're not really at risk of losing your purchases there, even if the service ceases
lime smelt
now is the time to support EGS
orchid prism
Horizon Dawn ... done. Not bad for a port.
bleak pike
@orchid prism STEAM?
orchid prism
wot
bleak pike
do you hav e it on steam
fading spade
I found this hat in GTA :') where you get this xd
wheat kraken
i heard it was an awful port
weak cypress
It was, but that's the thing about Steam, they can be turned into good ports.
fallow bronze
new thing in factorio 1.0 is the spidertron!
orchid prism
I mean it runs well. Only one crash.
So...not a bad technical port by any means. Just some "of course it's a console game" moments.
novel umbra
apparently user experience is vastly different from one to another
fallow bronze
Re "of course it's a console game": just cause 4 has some interesting key binds and menu navigation...
orchid prism
I assume it's how they compile shaders. Or because I'm on a high end machine.
It spends like 5mins on the first bootup compiling shaders for YOUR hardware. No skipping.
novel umbra
what fps do you get?
orchid prism
It locked at 60fps for me, and I never really cared to tweak them. At 1440p
A prime example of console port is when the game designers expect you to hit R once or twice while mouse aiming a bow to load additional arrows.
Now I don't know about y'all's hands, but I can't do that while strafing both ways on WASD. Missing a finger. Lot of "ah fuck" moments there in heated battles.
It also has a big timing issue when you sneak up on stuff to stealth/crit hit it. More often than not it ends up being a regular attack because the prompt vanished for a split second.
And now the enemy is no longer stunned and mauling you.
I would have if not for the heavy focus on precision aiming arrow shots.
orchid prism
Enemies have weak spots. And components you shoot off to remove abilities. This is 99% of each combat.
Scan, hit weak spots (or remove armour plates from weak spots) do massive damage. Next weak spot.
All while Rolling around dodging attacks.
novel umbra
so if the game gets any more hectic than portal I can't play with a controller
yea
because they did it for years
I never played fps on consoler
orchid prism
Probably not quite as well as with a mouse. Never enabled aim assist.
novel umbra
unless minigames in banjo tooie count
orchid prism
But I imagine it cheats and lets you noclip through robot bodies to hit some spots. Otherwise I just don't see them performing well.
novel umbra
?
novel umbra
good joke
orchid prism
Dunno. Maybe the bullet time effect is stronger with a conteoller. More time to move the joystick around trying to hit the sweet spot 😄
proper cargo
lol. gta 6 pre order digital download cd key
weird that some webshops dont even check the keys they put up sometimes
fringe salmon
I bet its either a gigantic site that doesnt bother/cant check it all or a scummy one that doesnt care bc they make money
proper cargo
sold on kinguin. offered by g2play.net. which is powered by kinguin. so technically they themselves are pre selling codes that might not exist for years to come
proper cargo
well, 2 sites but hosted by 1
so they can compete with eachother but win in the end anyways
fringe salmon
yes one hosted by a scamsite so it's two scamsites
kinguin is like the next worst thing behind g2a
proper cargo
yup. though technically i dont really care, i usually pay for the cheapest price. and always through paypal in case the code bounces, which thankfully never happened so far.
fringe salmon
wow might as well just pirate it then and save the money
proper cargo
why?
fringe salmon
because the devs are not getting money either way but with pirating at least you are not giving money to people who are doing money laundering, credit card fraud and actively killing the profits of indie devs so they run out of money
proper cargo
yea, i had that conversation 1 times too many to go into it again XD
small comet
wasnt jeruzalem also the guy that gave back the one game on steam and stayed in offline to keep playing
proper cargo
yea, which was the first time i figured i was able to do that
small comet
so ure worse thab pirates
proper cargo
it was interesting
small comet
gg
orchid prism
Ultimately it's a question of publishers and marketing firms being a little TOO happy about sending out keys to "content creators"
If they didn't do that, then there's be no grey market for that kind of key.
Stolen keys? That's a CC system issue, not limited to games.
fringe salmon
sure but if sites like g2a wouldn't encourage it, CC abuse would be less of an issue for them
orchid prism
And finally. Publishers don't want to help authenticate keys, so there's no recourse for grey market firms.
How do they encourage it exactly? By existing?
fringe salmon
yes, by being a known place that happly lets you sell everything you have
proper cargo
orchid prism
Better close banks then. If they didn't exist, there's be less incentive to rob banks.
proper cargo
actually, developers are able to request steam cd keys from valve for their game free of charge. and we are talking about thousands
of keys
most of the time developers use these keys to sell on cd key webshops, to make money outside of steam. so most of hte time, a cd key price is the steam price, without the 30% cut
fringe salmon
yes, hence why g2a at best is the same as pirating but you pay money to the site, and at worst supports theft and financially hurts the devs directly
orchid prism
Disagree.
small comet
@proper cargo so u actually believe that those keys are legit
proper cargo
maybe for the 1% of the keys that are illegally purchased.
we are really talking about a tiny fraction of keys that might be aquired outside of legal ways.
small comet
so?
fringe salmon
why do you think its a tiny fraction
and not a majority
when there have been devs very vocal about it (tinybuild I think? would have to check) that it very much is hurting them and is not a tiny fraction of keys
proper cargo
so...you are against buying a cd key with a 1% chance its aquired illegally, but you are okey with going down the street, buy a t-shirt that has a 50% chance of being made by tiny hands slave labour from india or pakistan?
cause... thats what we are dealing with here
fringe salmon
what
orchid prism
The real culprits here are transaction handlers.
Publishers and developers shouldn't be left with the bill for counterfeit transactions
small comet
@proper cargo lol how do u know its 1% chance of being illegal
just say u like to pirate shit and this disucssion wouldnt happen
proper cargo
well, yes. thats one of the problems why store owners are against paypal these days. they always make the store owner pay the transaction fees
fringe salmon
yes but we can't deal with the transaction handles, we can chose not to engage in something that causes harm to the devs
fringe salmon
its the lesser evil
orchid prism
Hard disagree
proper cargo
how is aquiring a free copy less evil than buying a copy?
i want to know the logic behind that one quin.
small comet
@proper cargo ure buying a stolen copy lol
fringe salmon
literally every dev who was vocal about g2a
proper cargo
and how big is g2a?
small comet
u actually think they sell em for less than theyd get on steam after steam takes the cuts
fringe salmon
its not a made up story bc I dont like g2a or smth
small comet
ya no
proper cargo
g2a was simply singled out cause 1 guy went to the press, told them to do a story about it, and the rest just folowed.
there are tens of other webshops also doing cd key trading. they were never even mentioned
small comet
we also didnt say noone except g2a is evil
fringe salmon
have I ever said I fully support them or anything? I dont know anything about them so I can only speculate
but I know that g2a is scum
so I can complain about them
my point with the fraud thing was, they make millions from the "g2a shield" thing which is only needed if the key doesnt work, which would not be an issue if the keys were just regular keys bc then there is no reason for them to ever not work
they themselves make tons of the uncertainty that the key might not work
small comet
now introducing steam shield for when a steam gift u send from steam itself should not activate
proper cargo
to my understanding, cd keys are handed out by hte developers themselves upon request from valve, or epic, or ubisoft or where ever. those are free keys handed out to them. the developers then sell these keys on webshops, who only ask for a small fee against the 30% the stores usually ask.
OFCOURSE
afterwards, when a key is sold, and the purchaser asks for a refund, he can write down the key, or whatever, and then sell it afterwards.
proper cargo
but ur afraid of that small percentage that is illegal
fringe salmon
the issue is that it's a known fact a very big part is not acquired legally
bleak pike
Oh this discussion again
proper cargo
and because of that fear, you are willingly buying overpriced games.
bleak pike
What happened this time
small comet
ok so 1third is taken away
with a 60usd game thats 40usd the dev gets
keys for these games sell for like 20usd
proper cargo
yea, ur right. its my fault, i had this discussion many times before i should have known better :p
bleak pike
Well games shouldn’t be so overpriced also g2a is poop anyway
fringe salmon
you say its a small percentage, how do you know the numbers, if the only known numbers are devs telling they lose a shit ton from g2a
surely you must have a source for your "only 1% are not legal keys"
small comet
btw keys are usually sold for the same price as on steam
legit keys that is
but thanks to cc fraud etc they get sold for way less
thats what g2a is a plAce to resell keys that are usually the result of cc fraud etc
proper cargo
i once made the calculation. the indi dev that started this whole thing, in another article he said how many copies he sold through steam, went back to the first article, where he said how many illegal keys were going on in g2a, and comparing the numbers only 1% of what he sold were fraud keys.
if those keys sold
small comet
wha
proper cargo
which they didnt, cause g2a pulled them off their website
small comet
thats 1% of all sales steam and g2a is at all
so 100% of g2a keys were fake
plus the numbers of keys change daily
proper cargo
no. of the total would be sales, done on steam and g2a, those 2 combined, only 1% would be fraud keys.
small comet
so send us the articles
fringe salmon
wait so you are including the games sold on steam in the list that counts towards legit keys? that makes no sense to combine them
proper cargo
look, im not gonna search up everything just to entertain you. i had this conversation way too many times, im not going to convince you you are wrong.
if you think you are right, then, yay, you are right.
good for ya
small comet
said the one who literally stole a game in steam
fringe salmon
thats not what this is about lol
I'm happy to be proven wrong bc it means I could learn more, I'm not arguing something this boring just to say "yay im right"
proper cargo
its not that i got exact numbers, alot what i say is my opinion on it. im just telling people who just say "hurr durr cd keys bad" to atleast try to go beyond that ignorant thinking and actually do some research cause atleast the mayority of them are not illegal or whatever
fringe salmon
no. of the total would be sales, done on steam and g2a, those 2 combined, only 1% would be fraud keys.
so if 99% total would be from steam, 100% on g2a are frauds, you didnt really show an argument for the legitnes of keys on g2a
small comet
cd keys arent bad no one said that
novel umbra
small comet
its just that its proven thag g2a is bad
fringe salmon
again, you are the only one who brings up cd keys or other websites, the argument is g2a is a shit website, not the act of selling keys in general
novel umbra
that is only for the one that wube queried for though
small comet
so over 50% were stolen
fringe salmon
and I didnt even know of this one lmao so another one to the list
small comet
ya
proper cargo
that i dont dispute
novel umbra
I am sure you can buy 100% legally acquired keys etc
fringe salmon
I mean isnt gta6 thing just further proof, that the website that offers this is a bad one
small comet
if id want cd keys id buy from trusted sources like humble or so
novel umbra
but finding a site that you can actually trust would be hard
so I'd personally stick to official stores
well yea there is stuff like that
if the game is worth my money the devs should 100% get paid for it
small comet
i mean a key for the same as on the original store or inside the stores "cut area" id say is prob legit
novel umbra
I personally don't wanna take chances on that
small comet
but not for like less than 50percent of the actual price
novel umbra
not 50
but often enough 30-10 percent
lower than it ever was on sale
which sounds suspiciously like money laundering etc to me
fringe salmon
the article mentions the main issue "The findings still show that 61% of the illicit keys sold over the space of a couple of months were sold through G2A."
this shows that most of them go through g2a bc its easy to sell them there, it's not the normal shady deals you have on every webshop, but ag2a makes it way too easy for this to happen so it further encourages it
unique bane
If they wanted they could easily put subscription cost on their shitty AAA games anyway, which are played through in 6 hours
so nobody could pirate it
novel umbra
lol
I mean
look at that new marvel game
does the fifa strat
full priced game on launch
packed with mtx
small comet
i mean subscription games also get "pirated"
novel umbra
they can't do annual releases though since the game was delayed by a year
small comet
look at pservers for mmos
unique bane
subscription games get pirated AFTER pirates have paid for the sub cost.
and it take years to build the game
novel umbra
well those annual games would just get trading of illegally acquired ingame items etc
unique bane
emu servers take years to build
novel umbra
aka monthly subscription items
unique bane
its not easy
novel umbra
or rmt
unique bane
yeah but pirates pay sub cost like I said ^^
small comet
its just an easy way to really drag out the process
pmuch what drm is supposed to do
unique bane
Some private servers are really good they preserve some old games that would get cancelled otherwise
small comet
but its ny childhood
novel umbra
also was it not shown multiple times that pirating barely does anything to actual sales numbers?
unique bane
ahh ok
small comet
@novel umbra yes
small comet
usually pirates actually buy the game
most pirates (at keast to shit i have read) want a demo more or less
and im one of those
novel umbra
meanwhile denuvo actively censors their spreadsheet on wikipedia
unique bane
I'm waiting for a Vanguard:Saga of Heroes private server.. It's taken too long to build now. It's funny how for example, Daybreak Games is fine with P99 existing off their Everquest franchise
novel umbra
of which games got cracked and which got denuvo removed
small comet
@unique bane i mean there are some pservers i know which run the original source code
like flyff
novel umbra
unique bane
yeah and publishers are fine with private servers Oo
novel umbra
german boomer mmo
small comet
and i actually thought about buying the fantasy tennis 2 ip including source code
novel umbra
kinda wanna play the shitty onlinegames I played when I was young again
small comet
but i dont have 30k usd
novel umbra
like flyff lol
small comet
i still play flyff on a german pserver
they have tons of custom new content
and systems
novel umbra
lol
didn;t know that they sell the ip and source code of old games for that much
I wonder how much flyff is 
or S4
unique bane
I love watching mmos built
Like this is a progression image gallery spanning 4-5 yrs I think
unique bane
it looks pretty good if u watch the latest screens 😄
novel umbra
it has some undeniably great graphics in some areas
unique bane
Oo
unique bane
It's a mmorpg so never gonna look like a SP game yeah
unique bane
But the atmosphere/vistas are gorgeous
unique bane
About 2 yrs to release so plenty time to get better
novel umbra
while something like WoW will always be recognizable
unique bane
thats like a 3 year old photo at this point 😄
unique bane
from Pre-alpha
novel umbra
says 2019 at the bottom
unique bane
Oh Oo
small comet
@novel umbra idk. flyff was leaked anyway but with ft2 we actually got hold of someone from the now defunct dev studio
and they wanted 30k usd
novel umbra
like for an mmo the graphics are alright
but the art direction is not clear enough
atm it seems like "generic fantasy game"
almost like an asset flip
which it probably is not
unique bane
Most of them are actually placeholders, which get eventually replaced as time progresses in the development
So that is why you can see mishmash of good and bad graphics
novel umbra
well I hope they will get a good art lead by then
novel umbra
ehhhhhh
unique bane
Building mmos usually graphics are last thing
novel umbra
the art lead should have showed some distinction by now
like the art leads job is not making it look good
but making it look distinct
and fitting
or well
it's primary job
unique bane
Yeah I guess I'm mainly drooling at the world building. Which is phenomenal compared to current games
novel umbra
even if this is a "revival" from those early 2000s mmos
tbh
not sure if I ever played one I liked more than flyff
just not that convoluted
clear art direction
even though I don't like it
unique bane
This is more of realistic style graphics instead of stylized
The playerbase is a bit older so
novel umbra
even then
you could immediatley recognize a screenshot from half life for example
because it has distinct looks
liek it goes so far that I could instantly recognize the stalker 2 trailer
just from seeing the ferris wheel at the start
without knowing what game it exactly is
unique bane
That's because you know half-life. If you knew this franchise, it has pretty distinct look ala Vanguard/Everquest
It's pretty niche so yeah
unique bane
Yeah it certainly could do with better graphics, but I'm trustful it increases in quality as we get closer to launch
unique bane
For me this is already somethign not found in other games. The immersion/atmosphere in on completely another level. https://i.imgur.com/nTaNhjJ.png
novel umbra
does not look unique to me
ripe tendon
What one is that?
ripe tendon
Oh Pantheon, I see
wicked latch
I will just wait for Ashes of Creation
unique bane
AoC is prob something will tide me over to Pantheon if it releases first
bleak pike
Pantheon xD
AoC hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahah
nice meme @wicked latch 
wicked latch
@bleak pike what? You think it isnt coming out or something?
wicked latch
Wtf is DoE?
unique bane
You backed what?
unique bane
MMORPG development always take time, whats so hard to grasp about it? 😮
I bet both AoC and Pantheon aer coming out
bleak pike
Its a KS MMORPG, it looks trash so far, either they come out and die fast/dissapoint, never come out or DOA
unique bane
k
fringe salmon
oh we on about KS fails? I backed Crowfall 🙂
unique bane
This discord is definitely not a good place to talk about games or being excited for them I guess
novel umbra
backed one KS
besides preordering a wooting
don't regret either
both companies were pretty solid though
fringe salmon
think the crowfall beta is coming this months, was supposed to be december 2016 I think? lul
trim rock
Oh yeah that game haven't heard anything about it for quite a while
Thought it silently died
wicked latch
@bleak pike looks pretty good to me for PRE-ALPHA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkwaYLOuw2s
bleak pike
Another thing to mention is them sighnign with my.com
it looks nice because AoC always focused on demos looking sexy
small comet
@fringe salmon i saldy backed crowfall aswell
bleak pike
They use multiple assets to showcase and say they are working on their own
etc
I want AoC to happen soooooooo bad dont get me wrong
It looks dated before its even made in alpha
small comet
damn id mAke some good kickstarter games
if someone woukd give me the money they have
bleak pike
I was also kinda saddened by the combat lol
trim rock
Ah yes 40man raids is it gonna be hardcore focused as well because I've seen how that goes...
bleak pike
FPS
@trim rock when i was in a discord voice chat with 20 or so people during region wars on bdo i could barely cope
nevermind 40 on a raid
christ
trim rock
Discord voice chat is garbage for that yes because no sub channels
unique bane
24-40 man raids are best 🙂
unique bane
We used ventrilo/TS3 back in teh day for 70+ ppl raids..
trim rock
I meant like in say Mumble & Teamspeak where you can have channels in channels so smaller groups in a larger group can communicate effectively
bleak pike
Stop holding onto the past 😄
trim rock
Ah yes the future of having everyone in one so it's a giant mess 😄
small comet
how is smaller channels in a channel different from a few voice channels in a category
unique bane
In a properly structured raid only raidleader and timers talk
trim rock
Because with the touch of a key you could elevate yourself and talk to all those channels at the same time and such
novel umbra
trim rock
Yeah exactly I'd rather use decent voice chats in larger groups
novel umbra
is ts5 out by now?
small comet
idk but i also dont want to know the new license prices
novel umbra
lol
novel umbra
lol
trim rock
Let's just get rid of all these separate text channels we have here, you only need one
novel umbra
if you are lucky you get a chair or beanbag to sit on
fr though
ts3 just misses a proper way to text chat
mainly
and a way to switch between text chat servers easily
small comet
ya
plus licensing
u get 32slots for free
thats it
like i do like the rights system of ts
its just that i dont like the forced voice chat and license fees
and ts3 client costs money in gplay i think
or at least it did when it released
damn 55usd anually
for 64slots
novel umbra
GAMER LICENSE
small comet
ikr
small comet
idk not liking it personally
small comet
like they dont have to pay for anything cause i personally run it
so a fixed 1time cost with limitless license would be better imo
small comet
this is a license for selfhost
small comet
ts3 does only have 32slots in the free license
novel umbra
if not you should be able to stem 55 USD per year
small comet
still expebsive gor the fact i have to host the software myself
AND pay the ts license
so 55usd plus whatever server cost
tbh i just used cracked ts3 server
novel umbra
yea
they could probably host servers for that price
and make a decent profit
lol
discord did NOT help them out though
novel umbra
basically reliant on german boomers
small comet
most old things are kept alive by german boomers and callum succs
fringe salmon
that is for selfhosting you know that yes?
so you'd still need to run your own server, update it manually etc etc
small comet
basically ure paying for the right to have more people use ur bandwidth and hardware
thats also why i said id ve totally down for a fixed price
bleak pike
"most old things are kept alive by german boomers" ~ Tony 2020
small comet
u get as many slots and vservers as u Want
obviously prohibiting reselling those servers
small comet
lel
like i have a license for wbb
woltlab burning board
and its a 1time pay
@vital wyvern a license to use more slots
novel umbra
no
fringe salmon
yes, license
novel umbra
you pay for being able to have more than 32 clients
trim rock
It's proprietary software, the devs gotta get paid!
novel umbra
@small comet why tf do you have a wbb license btw
fringe salmon
mumble lol
trim rock
Why not pocket some extra cash then
novel umbra
lol
small comet
@novel umbra had a forum for a community for 3 years
small comet
and made some good cash of ingane shops
novel umbra
back when stuff like that was lifetime licenses
small comet
then closed down due to it becoming more toxic
novel umbra
and not some SaaS shit
small comet
wbb is still 1time pay
novel umbra
small comet
dont need to update tho
novel umbra
who tf uses LDAP for forums
small comet
u can literally let it run forever
small comet
its literally just a tiny footer
theres no other branding really
except the footer which states the copyright
novel umbra
lol
small comet
personally dont mind it so idc
just really like the cms for the whole board
and its visually more pleasing that phpbb or some other bs
i mean
its just way better organized and useable imo
and its also not wbb only anymore
its more a community suite
so blog, forum, file downloads
whatever u need basically
fallow bronze
small comet
@vital wyvern none anymore
small comet
@fallow bronze thats wbb yes
fringe salmon
ehhh, not quite correct but funny still
fringe salmon
what, you dont see how they abuse their position to make a monopole that harms others?
how the richest company on earth can only keep the position by using its monopoly to parasitize every other software company on earth instead of their own sales/businesses?
they are suing both apple and google?
the difference is on google you can use other app stores if you dont like the options, on apple you cant use anything but the app store
bleak pike
Fucking hell
The game itself is 5gb
You have to launch it to download the test
Rest
So retarded
proper cargo
it is...
would it be the same for the steam version?
download 5gb, then download a whopping 130 over it. so you install it on a drive that has like 50gb left, thinking its enough XD
small comet
@fringe salmon so dont use ios... its not like ure forced to use an apple device
proper cargo
he uses apple?
small comet
na was about the whole "on apple u can only use appstore" thing
if u dont like that dont buy an iphobe easy as that
fringe salmon
except in a lot of places you are, if the work system is in the apple ecosystem etc. you are basically telling people to buy a second phone etc.
small comet
its also not like any of the limitations of both are a secret
before u buy a phone u pmuch can know exactly what u get urself into
proper cargo
apple and android. then there are android versions like from huawei that dont have the google store and got hteir own store, but do you really want to use chinese apps? XD
small comet
@fringe salmon a work phone isnt supposed to be ur private phone
fringe salmon
saying just dont use apple is like saying just dont use windows since macos and linux exist and thus microsoft can do what they want
fringe salmon
ya they cant
small comet
exactly
but if u dont like it u also dont have to use it
if u need to for work then only use it for work
proper cargo
microsoft got forced through laws to make windows a general use platform. that means it isnt allowed to push its own products, but allow equal competition with other software developers.
i remember back in...windows 7? they had to show you a screen with different browser options
or was it already back in windows xp
not sure
small comet
i wanna see those laws
proper cargo
but at 1 point, they got sued for pushing windows explorer as the default browser on windows. their product on their OS. and they got sued. and lost
not sure if its exactly a law
but i do remember they got sued over it and since then had to show a screen with different browser options
small comet
not really a law plus they did it again with edge
pyshing it on everyone and when u tried changing the default browser a popuo appeared to ask u to try edge
proper cargo
orchid prism
I find it hilarious how people complain about a flight sim with global content is too big, when Warzone is a single map of a tiny bit of Russia.
fringe salmon
this is also not only about consumers, what if you have an app, you have a lot of people who use ios and want to provide an ios app, but your payment system would mean you would basically lose money, so you need to decide between losing money or not providing the app to xx% of your users?
proper cargo
they got sued by the government about pushing their browser over other browsers
small comet
@fringe salmon the rules for inapp purchases are clearly defined
if u dont like it dont develop for ios
u all play thus as if apple was like "now that u sigbed dev shit heres our rules"
and im 100percent sure everyone knows the rules beforehand
fringe salmon
yes people know the rules, the rules are shit
small comet
so then dont use apple shit
again
if u dont like smth dont use it
no one forces u to
proper cargo
actually
you can be forced to use something over something else. like, when the other option is worse.
fringe salmon
so as a company I should just not provide my app to 10k people bc I would lose money from doing so thanks to apple rules?
proper cargo
exactly
fringe salmon
or more or less, just a random number of peopel
small comet
thats what u have to decide lol
proper cargo
good thing you are not the boss of a company then
small comet
the company would prob just take the small loss
proper cargo
you dont think business wise
orchid prism
And that's where you're wrong.
When you achieve a monopoly like state of affairs the government takes action.
small comet
oh man all these companues taking the big hit of steam taking a cut
they are all starving
and running out of money
ya no they aint
proper cargo
@orchid prism not sure how deep you are in this wooting thing, but isnt it the same with the keyboards? like, you hate the rules china exerts on imported products, but its a country with 2 billion people, so you are forced to follow the rules and allow the keyboard to be imported and sold there? :p
otherwise you would miss a huge market
small comet
digital goods are almost always generating money
orchid prism
I uh... Fail to see the comparison 😄
small comet
and u can factor in losses beforehand
fringe salmon
if you charge lets say 10$, and need 9$ to run cost even, then you want to put it on apple, apples takes30% so you only get 7$ but it still costs you 9$ per customer @vital wyvern
small comet
u wouldnt cgarge 10then
fringe salmon
you would because you cant make the apple option cost more
proper cargo
no, its the same as what tony says. if you dont like the rules of apple, dont do apple. keyboard same thing. dont like the rules of china, dont sell it in china.
small comet
that would be like me selling a laptop for 10eur more than i paid for it but doing all the customer services for free
trim rock
Then you silently raise the price on iOS sheeple
small comet
thats just bad business
fringe salmon
Then you silently raise the price on iOS sheeple
@trim rock thats against apple TOS and gets your app removed
thats one of the issues
orchid prism
I still don't see the comparison.
trim rock
Skate around it clevelry then
proper cargo
then nevermind i guess
trim rock
Or just take a stand and tell iOS users to switch to something that respects users (and developers!) more
small comet
if u price smth u factor in losses, winnings and a small safety margin
fringe salmon
you'd just raise prices for the product on all platforms I guess
@vital wyvern and that could put it to cost more than what people want to pay for in general so you lose even more users
orchid prism
There are two competing markets. Apple and Android.
There are not two competing brands in the keyboard market
Now if Corsair and Razer were the 90% of the market and did shady things, then we could compare.
small comet
@vital wyvern costs 9usd to change a value in fortnite database so the vbucks show up
proper cargo
exept that you are forced to use the apple app store on apple. android allows you to have your own app store, outside of the android app store.
fringe salmon
it the cost for the example app I gave, not a game but a service like youtube for example
small comet
u thiught its virtually free to deliver digital goods?
orchid prism
The "but android has alternatives" doesn't really work when you're a monopoly.
proper cargo
well sure, you reach way more people on the android app store than on your own, but still, the option is there
😛
orchid prism
The Appstore comes preinstalled and any alternative store front end has to go through the app store.
proper cargo
epic could make their own installer for fortnite
orchid prism
Well play store whatever.
fallow bronze
other installers in not allowed on play store
orchid prism
No. It is not an option for your average user.
fallow bronze
amazon store is not allowed for example
orchid prism
You cannot legally expect Linux levels of understanding for average consumers.
fringe salmon
if you want a hands on example, Luke from LTT talked about this issues with their floatplane app, if they price it the same so they are allowed to put it on ios, they make a loss on it
fallow bronze
f droid is not allowed
bleak pike
small comet
thats just calcukated bad then
they knew cuts from apple beforehand
could have factored it in
fringe salmon
so because apple charges more, they should ask people on pc to pay more?
orchid prism
The Microsoft example of assuming browsers is actually perfect here.
You can't expect folks to know how to sideload apps outside of the Play ecosystem anymore than you can expect people to know there are alternatives to IE when it comes preinstalled.
fringe salmon
yes and thats shit because there is no need for it
small comet
seemingly there is
proper cargo
small comet
cause apple wants it
fringe salmon
@vital wyvern floatplane in this example is a service like youtube, so they have costs for serverupkeep, streaming the videos etc., not a one time download of a game
fallow bronze
netflix pays less
fringe salmon
starbucks and mcdonalds also pay less
fallow bronze
nope
fringe salmon
probably by them telling apple if they cant put their app on ios, millions of angry people would hate apple
fallow bronze
it also would not be fair competition since apple has their own video streaming platform
proper cargo
@small comet hey, im a big corporation. tell me to pay less to you, and i will make an app for apple.
orchid prism
Apple made special agreements with Amazon and others. Because 30% is suddenly too much when you're dealing with large corporations.
proper cargo
thats the power of big corporations
small comet
didnt epic say the other apps use other payment processors
fallow bronze
so this laptop is a 1000 bucks, but at the end there is a 30% apple tax.
fringe salmon
idk what the other apps use, but either way its not what others are allowed to do
fallow bronze
lets say its on amazon and its a dell
proper cargo
then amazon takes whatever cut they agreed on with dell
small comet
i only read about ither apps offering physical stuff through their apps using different payment processors which is allowed by the appstore tos
proper cargo
though, in countries like america, amazon might be 1 of your only options since they are the biggest.
small comet
cause u just have to use apple stuff if its inapp content or the app itself
fallow bronze
smaller cut for everyone is better for everyone except apple and google
(and epic and valve)
small comet
im psure they could survive with smaller
fallow bronze
fuck big corporations
proper cargo
there ya go
small comet
not that the cut percentage is the problem here
fringe salmon
yes they could survive, the issue is with hardware sales slowing down, the app store is more and more of their income and they dont want to lose it
and yes, the % definitely is a problem, just not the only one
proper cargo
yea, but sometimes change has to be forced
same with steam and the epic store
though valve would never admit it, epic did cause steam to change some things. the bigger developers that sell a certain amount of hteir game, has to pay a lower cut to valve
small comet
like in epics case (which is all i really argued about) they knew before hand that offering digital goods for inside the app has to go through apples processing
they were asses about it so their claims imo are unjust
they could have just
sued without all of this
on antitrust basis
all this drama they are making rn is just hot air for the media imo
fallow bronze
but now they have publicity
small comet
ya but now i think even less of epic
fallow bronze
and us law works better with that
small comet
like i already didnt think much if them but ya
fringe salmon
apple and google are already under anti trust probing, but the public didnt really care about it before
small comet
they blasted themselves from my mind entirely
fringe salmon
they did this to speed this process up by years
small comet
so? still a shit move imo
proper cargo
i dunno. sure, epic does some wacky stuff, but it causes change. and some changes good, some changes bad. we will see how this ends up
small comet
this literally shows how controlles by media the people really are
fringe salmon
what is a shit move, trying to open up a monopoly is a shit move?
small comet
@fringe salmon have u read anything i wrote?
their useless drama
thats a shit move
their drama rn is based on nothing
fringe salmon
but it's not useless drama, it adds a much much higher pressure onto apple/google
small comet
they knowingly broke tos
fringe salmon
it makes it much more likely for stuff to change
small comet
and knowling said other apps use different payment processors aswell
but all the apps mentioned sell physical goods
like food, drink, actual items etc
not vbucks
fringe salmon
and why should it matter if its a coffe or vbucks, why should apple get a cut in one but not the other?
small comet
thats not for debate... for debate is them breaking it knowingly to get attention instead of just suing for it
the rules might be shit so change them and dont be an ass about it to change them
fringe salmon
because adding pressure via media and public opinion is much much much much more likely to change it, we know the legal system is shit so sadly stuff like this has an influence on it
fringe salmon
yes its drama, no it's not useless, I 100% think without it they could sue and nothing would change
proper cargo
but imagine if it would
apple would be forced to make the apple app store a general use commodity where everyone can freely be on it. or atleast be allowed to offer their services on the apple OS without apple forcing them to take a cut out of everything.
same with android. google offers android free of charge. everyone can be on it. only google services are paid apps. but you can have android without google apps. huawei is doing that right now. they still use the android OS, but simply dont offer google services.
keen urchin
Woah, too much talk
proper cargo
imagine samsung making an apple phone
fringe salmon
what
proper cargo
what if epic can push it so far, that the apple OS is forced to be freeware like android.
keen urchin
I imagine they might lose
Nobody has to use an iphone with iOS. There are alternatives. Can't really call that a monopoly
fringe salmon
that makes no sense to ever happen
proper cargo
but imagine
fringe salmon
it would be android with a different skin, done, I imagined it
proper cargo
the samsung iOS phone
bleak pike
People not happy https://store.steampowered.com/app/1250410/Microsoft_Flight_Simulator/#app_reviews_hash
This cracked me up
trim rock
Oh yeah that's clever forcing that massive download ingame
ez 2 hours so refunds are harder
orchid prism
bleak pike
And from their shitty slow servers
orchid prism
Y'all could have bought the damn discs 😛
bleak pike
What’s a disc?
fallow bronze
its dlc on a bit of plastic/metal
is a dvd slower than most internet connection these days? 🤔
wolfram alpha says ~5MB/s.. so yes it is slower
orchid prism
Wat? No no no haha
a 24X DVD drive reads at around 31 MB/s
BD is four times that.
small comet
even at 1x dvds usually have around 11mbit/s
bd has a 1x rate of like 30ish
cd is slow af tho
orchid prism
Suffice to say even my 500/500 connection isn't faster than what optical media can reach. 😄
proper cargo
hmm
proper cargo
maybe wait for that game to be cracked
orchid prism
It's one of those games you don't REALLY want to play as a pirate, since it updates over time.
small comet
flight sim?
if this is about the above mentioned ms flight sim pirating it is kinda bad cause of the updates mansen mentioned but also that it is a really good flight sim
orchid prism
That too 😄
proper cargo
yea, but microsoft seems to circumvent the refund policy of steam this way.
orchid prism
Just being very objective here - There are practical reasons why you shouldn't pirate it. Not just moral ones 😄
yea, but microsoft seems to circumvent the refund policy of steam this way.
@proper cargo Eh... Most big games can be accused of this.
If anything Steam needs a better way to calculate playtime
small comet
its just that they prob dont expect this mass of new people
proper cargo
small comet
not to mention
most people that bought it on.steam arent even playing it for the sim part
but just to ruin it for everyone else
proper cargo
how much is it. 60 euro?
you telling me people spend 60 euro just to ruin other's their game?
70 euro
small comet
yes
orchid prism
I mean... people buy games only to use bots to annoy others 😄
trim rock
Why not just get game pass for 1 euro
proper cargo
wow. 70 euro on steam
thats bonkors
they want you to buy that game with a console price on top of it
orchid prism
Welcome the world of sim games.
If you want a stroke look at the price for that train sim plus DLC
proper cargo
if you want to skip the stroke and go to instant death, look at flight sim 10. it has so much dlc steam cant even calculate the price.
admittingly, most of that is user created content
im glad im not part of that world
small comet
its at least 4.5k btw
proper cargo
same as those free to pay games. 30 bucks just for 1 of its numerous weapons/items/tanks/skins
capitalism at its finest
keen urchin
Or Sims 4
Or whatever that City Sim was
fading spade
when you need to turn down the DPI because the java library minecraft uses cant handle it too high
fringe salmon
wow, java doing a good thing?
fading spade
hm?
fringe salmon
forcing people to use lower dpi
fading spade
why is lower DPI good? other than this scenario
it fixes mouse stutter <3
that happened since the library update
fringe salmon
makes you move your arm and not the hand area that causes RSI
fading spade
I just move my wrist
fringe salmon
yes, the area where people get RSI :p
fading spade
Whats report rate?
weak cypress
That's why I have a vertical mouse.
fringe salmon
its scan rate
unique bane
high dpi is good
orchid prism
yes, the area where people get RSI :p
@fringe salmon Honestly I'd rather risk RSI than heavy arm fatigue from having to keep my arm lifted at all times to move a mouse 😄
fringe salmon
dont really nee to have it lifted
orchid prism
My entire wrist causing friction disagrees.
fringe salmon
could try a biger mouse/different grip I assume, but fair enough
orchid prism
It's a Dark Core SE. It's a big boi. Change grip? Yeah that's like asking someone to just use their other hand 😄
fading spade
how it compare in size to the roccat kone xtd?
novel umbra
@fading spade you mean the report rate?
@fringe salmon scan rate is not report rate
scan rate is internal to the mouse
or a keyboard
fringe salmon
oh I assumed its just what they call it on the software
novel umbra
ik some engines have problems with high report rate
like Lithtech
which is used for crossfire
orchid prism
If I have to keep my arm lifted from the desk for long times, that causes fatigue, Fleim.
I rest it on the desk normally.
You know...the same reason keyboards have wristrests 
orchid prism
No thanks.
novel umbra
orchid prism
- My Dark Core is just perfect.
- I'm not made of money.
novel umbra
lol
no wonder your wrist hurts
also "not made of money" when you can get decent mice at 90g for under 40 euros
orchid prism
I'm sorry but we can't all have dainty hands 😄 😄
And I happen to use the wireless functionality and not have to deal with yet another control app just fine.
And you could consider if your opinions are more than that
It's not like the weight of the mouse has the slightest to do do with the fact that the bottom of my hand and wrist are on the desk by default.
I could be using a 30g Logitech freebie and still do that.
novel umbra
you do know that your mouse is not heavy because it is so ginormous?
orchid prism
I don't recall saying that.
orchid prism
I rather specifically said that in regards to someone acting like 150g is a brick.
novel umbra
all stuff to prevent arm injury
orchid prism
My DPI is just fine.
novel umbra
if you don;t move your arm?
orchid prism
I do. None of those things have anything to do with my arm stance. My god
novel umbra
single monitor?
novel umbra
no lazy design corsair dark core se best mouse
orchid prism
"Use arm to move mouse"
"Sorry bud. Can't do that due to how I hold my mouse"
"Your mouse too heavy! It brick!"
"Uh...no first of all. Second of all I'd still need to lift my hand to do it with a Featherlight mouse"
"Stretch fingers!"
"Great suggestion - not relevant to the whole lifting arm thing though"
If anything this is a classic case of two different camps not coming to terms with differing opinions.
novel umbra
you do know humans did not have tables for millions of years
novel umbra
they do though
bleak pike
150g is a brick
unique bane
how tf do you have your wrist touching the mousepad