early slayer is really bad, so you want to delay it a ton, stuff like lamping till 58 then doing slayer once you have solid upgrades is best
#New questions for new ironman
stark sphinx
for con, mahogany homes is fine till 70, then its normal con using teak or mahog. Generally you dont use poh much, a lot of the items in there are just worse than the alternatives
in terms of gear Beserker ring is important, thralls, piety
in terms of what you should focus on, get farming up to 62 with tithe farm, and start contracts/tree runs
brave granite
hmm ill have to look into thralls, stop playing before it was released
am i fine to do dk's with my current stats?
stark sphinx
yeah
you safespot with ibans
id recommend taking a look at https://ladlorchart.com/index.html for a general idea of efficient progression
major noob traps to avoid are: moonlight moths, hunter rumors, giants foundry, barrows/moons, not doing good money makers (look into bstaves)
brave granite
major noob traps to avoid are: moonlight moths, hunter rumors, giants foundry, b...
are you saying do those? or dont do those?
stark sphinx
avoid those
pure birch
am i fine to do dk's with my current stats?
You can kill rex, you can't do dks. The other two are strong
Definitely do farming
Construction doesn't really do anything for teleports. Training cons is good but probably not for the reason you're suggesting
jade cradle
Faq has better money makers than zombie pirates (better for general account progression, b-staves probably more gp/h as well). Slayer training is best postponed a lot, even lamping up to 58 for black mask. There are many helpful upgrades that improve slayer, such as: b-ring, torso, d-def, thralls, piety, ice/smoke barrage, at which point you'd be able to get assignments from nieve I think for decent xp. Pharaoh's scepter and dark altar at home help swap between barrage tasks and thralls. Doing a lot of farming contracts and magic training, for example alching during sepulcher agility, allow you to start slayer with a good stack of potions and high magic levels for barrage spells.
See for yourself which upgrades you're willing to skip or do but now you'll at least know a handful!
glossy wigeon
major noob traps to avoid are: moonlight moths, hunter rumors, giants foundry, b...
What would be more ideal out of curiosity?
stark sphinx
What would be more ideal out of curiosity?
for which one? haha
glossy wigeon
for which one? haha
Rumors/Moths and barrows/moons
stark sphinx
moths, is a combination of prioritizing farming early, and focusing on getting a good chunk of skilling and upgrades done before seriously pvming
at which point you just have infinite ppots
for barrows/moons you just skip em
none of the items there have long term use, and the short term use is negated by the time spent doing the content
glossy wigeon
Ah ok, my account prob cooked but was curious since I have those grinds coming up
stark sphinx
getting farming up and focusing on contracts asap is always good for anyone
oh, and for rumours, they dont really give anything important. the loot is bad and the xp is weak compared to BH runs
outer fern
major noob traps to avoid are: moonlight moths, hunter rumors, giants foundry, b...
I’m so confused about this list of avoidables. Why are we avoiding barrows / moons?
Why are we avoiding Hunter rumours? If you did 1-99 Hunter via rumours at the start of an Ironman, it’s arguably better than Wintertodt as you get lots of prayer XP, can catch dragon imps for cash / gear / etc.
If you afk a lot and do MLM, giants foundry can also be a good “pure GP” money maker on your way to 88 smithing for diaries.
Am I way off here? Or are we just talking about super sweat methods to min/max?
outer fern
I mostly AFK. So I think the meta doesn’t apply to me
stark sphinx
hunter rumours are just that much slower than birdhouse runs(which are way more afk)
and the loot is pretty shit
todt is good cause its literally your best FM method
and it gives you bad loot
outer fern
Ok
stark sphinx
and token xp in other skills that matter
outer fern
Few creators recently came out saying Hunter rumours are BIS
interesting
Especially for early prayer
stark sphinx
yeah its just so much slower than doing BH runs and killing green dragons
the time to get, and process, the prayer xp, makes it so bad compared to killing drags
as for GF, you are getting way lower rates than doing BF gold, and you have way better money makers
even ignoring the cost of the materials, its like, 200k gp/hr?
you can just do bstaves for 800k gp/hr, without any input material cost
stark sphinx
I mostly AFK. So I think the meta doesn’t apply to me
as a note, limited time to play would mean youd want to do more in the limited time you do have id think, rather than doing sub optimal stuff
outer fern
To give you an idea, I play on PC a couple nights per week, and maybe 2-3 hours each weekend day. So I am inclined to do more tasks that involved runelite when I am on PC.
During the day at work, or watching tv with the wife, I’ll pop open RS mobile and do some ultra afk tasks. Such as fishing, mining (MLM), woodcutting, bank standing stuff, maybe agility here and there if bored.
So yeah, when I’m at PC I try to knock off stuff like quests, pvm, or click intensive stuff.
But 80% of my weekly playtime is mobile
So I can’t take advantage of meta strats
stark sphinx
i mean, there is meta afk stuff too
dont think your afk time really changes what is good
outer fern
Fair
stark sphinx
like, if anything id never afk mlm
afking daeyalt, or, in a dire situation, calcified rocks
is gonna be way better
afk barb fishing very good
afk WC solid yeah
outer fern
I’ve been consuming a bunch of content recently. I was watching / listening to “nooblet” 3 to max ironman series. He rushed Hunter at the start, and although some of the stuff he did was off-meta, I felt like his reasoning for stuff was sound.
Idk!
stark sphinx
its easy to reason anything in this game if you ignore the numbers
building paths isnt hard
outer fern
its easy to reason anything in this game if you ignore the numbers
Fair point I do like number going up faster
stark sphinx
making the paths good by some metric is the hard part
like thats the essence of barrows to moons being a trap
moons likes defence, what gives defence? barrows, so you do barrows. why are you doing moons? because moons gives upgrades, which will let you do pvm
outer fern
What about after mort hards? Doing barrows is decent for the chaos / death for charging your staffs in future, or getting an onyx… no?
outer fern
I feel like that’s what all YouTubers have done. Lmao. Wild that it’s not meta
stark sphinx
youtubers tend to follow a path of least resistance
doing the easiest thing at the earliest point
"easiest"
without any actual regard for how long itll take in total
outer fern
I have lots to learn, can I DM you?
stark sphinx
im no expert by any means, and a lot of stuff is stuff i learned here, so it would def be better to just chat in #ironman-discussion so other people can chip in and correct me if need be
but youll hear a lot of the same thing ive said here in there, and sometime youll even get an explanation :^)
outer fern
I feel overwhelmed with the amount of info lol
stark sphinx
yeah it can be a lot, id just try and ask small questions over time
keep the scope of your questions small and ask the next one when you are ready
strange portal
What about after mort hards? Doing barrows is decent for the chaos / death for c...
Onyx isnt useful
Its only useful for zenytes and you can just spend 3m for an onyx
Fury is wrose than strength ammy for melee, and negligably better than glory
Both should be replaced by torture and anguish after you get bowfa and do gorillas
Xp/hr of birdhouse runs is way higher than rumors up until you have master rumors unlocked
The rewards are bad from rumors for the time spent early, since you can just do wintertodt (which is basically firemaking meta up to 99 anyways)
If rumors were amazing xp/hr all the way to 99 then sure maybe
People just want to do other stuff besides wintertodt
Its fine if you do but its worse, theres no numbers to back stuff like this up in favor of rumors
pure birch
I mostly AFK. So I think the meta doesn’t apply to me
Yeah, you're completely mistaken
pure birch
But 80% of my weekly playtime is mobile
You and 90% of the playerbase. This is very normal.
pure birch
So I can’t take advantage of meta strats
Ah fuck you've already invented excuses for yourself. Good luck and have fun
stark sphinx
i think we went the full gamut of reasoning here
outer fern
Yeah, you're completely mistaken
Is there an up to date video of all meta training methods to 99 that apply in current day? I feel like I can’t find a video outlining this properly. The YouTube Versus Discord convo is vastly different
I mostly consume this content while driving. Listening to it mostly
outer fern
Hmm. Seems like a gap in the YouTube space, someone here could profit
strange portal
watch jcw speedrun on ironman
most of the stuff he does for skilling is still pretty much standard
outer fern
He loses me on all the tick manipulation. I’m just a mobile pleb
strange portal
u do the same fishing method without tick manip
hunter chins are just slower without tick manip but still needed for range
mining just do volcanic mine or something or whatever idk
woodcutting is still teaks prob or sulluisceps
https://www.templeosrs.com/rates/skills.php?ehp=im has supporting numbers for xp rates on most of the meta methods
early game is a bit more messy tho
you can do just fine without tick manip in this game, u don’t need it for anything you’ll just be slower
gray crystal
Few creators recently came out saying Hunter rumours are BIS
Content creators are stupid and make content to make money not to inform u about actual good methods
crisp folio
Is there an up to date video of all meta training methods to 99 that apply in cu...
A lot of youtube content is hcim, where they just wanna do as much boss content before dying. So doing things that are good for the account long-term but don't make good content, like cramming out 98 agility worth of Sepulchre, isn't good for them.
But also all this max ehp content is not supposed to cater to everyone, it's a playstyle for people who want to maximize time spent on endgame content and get there ASAP. End of the day it's a game and if your goal is to have fun doing Moons in mediocre gear for upgrades then by all means have at it.
The bruhsailer guide linked in this discord has a good disclaimer at the front end about it being designed for your 2nd or 3rd+ account and not really being too suitable for a first time rush, unless your goal is specifically to get to endgame in the best possible state in the most effective way and are ok skipping over content to do that.
The whole concept about rushing content is ultimately a subjective opinion on which content is more "fun" so feel free to ignore the advice
pure birch
Hmm. Seems like a gap in the YouTube space, someone here could profit
It's much more engaging to tell people what they want to hear. Every new method is meta and early pvm is great for the account. 
naive ermine
major noob traps to avoid are: moonlight moths, hunter rumors, giants foundry, b...
If rumors is a noob trap, how does one train hunter?
crisp folio
or more commonly, red chins
pallid crater
major noob traps to avoid are: moonlight moths, hunter rumors, giants foundry, b...
I thought moonlight moths are very good
Free prayer pots
Can use for slayer
pure birch
They are not good at all, sorry
wise owl
Can use for slayer
meta progression on an iron has you doing a lot of skilling grinds before serious amounts of slayer because slayer doesnt speed up those grinds, but those grinds help slayer massively
for example hallowed sepulchre and farming contracts which will give you plenty of prayer pots negating the usefulness of moths
manic holly
I’m so confused about this list of avoidables. Why are we avoiding barrows / moo...
moons is only a trap if you're willing to grind out cg soon
the efficient method basically hinges on cg
pure birch
moons is only a trap if you're willing to grind out cg soon
I think this is a bit misleading. It implies that, if you do moons and then not cg, you can do something else. The gear really doesn't unlock much of anything, so you're just skilling/bankstanding/whatever
manic holly
I think this is a bit misleading. It implies that, if you do moons and then not ...
There's a lot of things you can do with moons gear that you can't do with easily obtainable earlier items
all 3 weapons (and sets) are upgrades over easily obtainable earlier gear
pure birch
I don't think that's very accurate
in fact, I think using moons as a step in pvm progression is a big mistake
manic holly
My entire clan keeps telling me to get boppers because my dps is lower at huey without them
pure birch
I think huey is a place where they are good yeah
manic holly
There's also quite a bit of content you can do with atlatl, while not optimal, it will be way, way better than other earlier options like msb
the diff between msb and atlatl is huge
pure birch
I would not use an atlatl for pvm. Even in a cg skip world, theres better routes
If you enjoy moons go for it, but I do not think it's a good approach to pvm
manic holly
What would you do for a ranged option if you skip cg?
daring perch
Msb I is very good weapon pre BofA, there’s a reason people pk with it so commonly
pure birch
What would you do for a ranged option if you skip cg?
a rune crossbow at toa
cg skip is dumb because bowfa is so good, but if you really want to go without a toa rush is a very solid plan
manic holly
This is with shit gear for each (best thing atlatl has is dragon boots and barrows gloves)
granted, it's at my level, which is str 10 levels higher
but i think a lot of noobs have higher melee stats as well
this is with overloads + both 99's
pure birch
I'm sorry, I'm not wasting my time on this discussion again
knock yourself out but I am out
manic holly
Atlatl is better unless you have bofa or tbow in most cases
daring perch
I think this is going to come down to what it normally does. Do whatever you think is fun but don’t tell people it’s max efficiency if it isn’t
rare mica
atlatl is not nearly better enough to be worth the time it takes to get
manic holly
I think this is going to come down to what it normally does. Do whatever you thi...
I'm not saying it's max efficiency, I'm just saying it's the best thing you can get if you aren't willing to do gauntlet
rare mica
please stop listening to content creators
and listen to people who actually devote their time to science this shit out
manic holly
please stop listening to content creators
I'm not, I've been using atlatl myself and it is noticeably better than literally anything I've got
rare mica
yes but the time you spent to get it + the time you'll have to spend resupplying ammo for it will not have been worth it long term
manic holly
yes but the time you spent to get it + the time you'll have to spend resupplying...
I spent like 2 days getting atlatl
It was nothing
Not even in the top 10 longest grinds i've done in this game so far lol
rare mica
then you got extremely lucky and that's not an avg use case
manic holly
I wasn't extremely lucky
I just spent a lot of time at it during those 2 days
I went on rate
rare mica
how many chests did you open
manic holly
rare mica
because rate to finish is 224
manic holly
did another 30-40 later
rare mica
hmm
manic holly
Failure rate is basically nonexistent, so you get the kc quick and it's very chill, which means you can grind it for a long time
eager shard
How to fail cg
daring perch
Do you guys wanna argue about this in a new chain
pure birch
then you got *extremely* lucky and that's not an avg use case
The problem isnt the time to get the weapon, it's that if you want any further progression it's still a no-brainer to do cg. And atlatl just doesn't beat bowfa, so it becomes -1 bank slot
CG skip is just that bad
but even if you did cg skip, you'd still do routes without early cox
it's not about a few calcs, the whole route is just awful
rare mica
yeah but it's easier to convince someone cg skip is bad if you can convince them that the alternative also sucks
manic holly
yeah but it's easier to convince someone cg skip is bad if you can convince them...
It sucks compared to bofa but it doesn't suck compared to your other options
rare mica
which is a 10+ hour moons grind which gets longer the worse your gear is, and you do cg really early in the account
manic holly
I think this discord generally overestimates the pvm capability of the average player
sweet fog
The average player underestimates the capabilities of themselves.
rare mica
no, we underestimate it
eager shard
Cg isnt hard at all though
pure birch
Cg isnt hard at all though
it is with all the misinformation out there
manic holly
no, we underestimate it
I've had people tell me CG is a 40 hour grind 
eager shard
That sets up your account for the future
pure birch
I think 100 including learning is realistic
manic holly
yeah there's a lot of people that think it's way lower than that
rare mica
66.6 is the number i remember
eager shard
Cg-> crafting ->con makes up for the hours imo
rare mica
the supplies you get from cg alone are more than worth grinding it for the rare drop
imagine doing the sepulchre agility grind but then you leave it with your bis range weapon for years to come
pure birch
yeah there's a lot of people that think it's way lower than that
there's also people who don't realise using atlatl at cox loses 100hr+
manic holly
there's also people who don't realise using atlatl at cox loses 100hr+
I'm not going to tell anyone that greenlogging cox with an atlatl is efficient
rare mica
i would only semi-support the atlatl bowfa skip if you do literally nothing but toa until you got a shadow
because shadow replaces bowfa in most cases
pure birch
the supplies you get from cg alone are more than worth grinding it for the rare ...
They really aren't. The cg loot is between bad and meh per hour, but because you're stuck for a long time it can add up
its nice to get 52m gp worth of stuff along with the bowfa, but without the bowfa you'd stay away
pure birch
because shadow replaces bowfa in *most* cases
yeah this is probably the best cg skip route, doing rcb 400+'s
rare mica
idk how much actual gp you get from 99 agi sep but i know that takes a lot longer to get than bowfa
pure birch
yeah its I think 30m gp and another 35m in runes for 150hr ish
rare mica
vs ~40m in alchs for 70-100h depending how good you are
pure birch
anyway I said I'd leave, failed that, trying again
dusky jackal
idk how much actual gp you get from 99 agi sep but i know that takes a lot longe...
Sep progresses your account tho
rare mica
nono stay you like arguing
rare mica
Sep progresses your account tho
cg does too
you typically start it with your combat stats in the late 80s/early 90s
mage doesn't go up that much but you'll get a decent chunk of range/str xp
dusky jackal
Without bowfa you wouldn’t have a reason to do it but I agree
rare mica
and unlike agility past 85 those actually have consequences on future content xd
quick poll all the old irons who did cg before enhanced crystal seed was a thing
Blade of Saeldor (inactive)
xd
manic holly
Anyone have a link to atlatl vs crystal bow at cox calculation (specifically for average time to get t bow)
Seems to me like the worst dps diff is it abyssal portal? Feel like that's an obvious rcb swap though
eager shard
What about defense lowering spec and melee weapon
manic holly
What about defense lowering spec and melee weapon
whip/hasta and dwh
mayb fang on some
shit, is boppers actually better?
manic holly
tell me they are smoking crack right
manic holly
Might be carving a new path here
im assuming the expectation is that you get both bofa and dhl before doing any cox
i might go back to moons just to get maca 🤣
eager shard
shit, is boppers actually better?
Only with 2 dwhs and like a 40 bgs
manic holly
Only with 2 dwhs and like a 40 bgs
yeah i think its a bit misleading, seems like tent whip is typically better
that being said macas does beat hasta and normal whip
the justification seems to be that it functions as a crush weapon for tekton and vasa crystals
it is a massive amount better than tent whip on tekton
rare mica
macas don't beat whip in solos, but if you're doing teams with competent def reduction they're equal to lance
though the "efficient" gearing path nowadays seems to lean on leaving cox after dex and not going back till you have scythe+shadow
manic holly
though the "efficient" gearing path nowadays seems to lean on leaving cox after ...
if that's the case, then why's bofa even matter if you're getting scythe
is there a crucial item you need bofa for that's required for tob?
rare mica
is there a crucial item you need bofa for that's required for tob?
gwd, titans, demonics/tds (until scobow), zulrah, cox for scrolls, post-shadow cox for vasa/olm head, colosseum, toa
manic holly
do you even bother doing bandos as an ironman these days?
rare mica
yes, bgs is still good
manic holly
also titans irrelevant to that specific case
i think zulrah is the major one
you don't need anything from colo at tob aside from tonalztics (which aren't even needed)
pale viper
do you even bother doing bandos as an ironman these days?
Just tob alone makes it a requirement
Ur actually trolling if not bringing one
daring perch
Doing tob or toa without bgs and blowpipe is def trolling
manic holly
Just tob alone makes it a requirement
Which boss requires everyone to use a bgs spec?
shrewd sigil
How did we get here
stark sphinx
me mentioning noob traps was bait, apparently
shrewd sigil
You can lead a IM to water, but you can’t make him drink IG
rare mica
Which boss requires everyone to use a bgs spec?
xarpus, maiden if nobody has a ralos, without owning dclaws or zcb you’d also be the assigned bgs at nylo and optionally bloat
manic holly
xarpus, maiden if nobody has a ralos, without owning dclaws or zcb you’d also be...
why wouldn't you dwh xarpus
every single person i've ever seen do xarpus has used a dwh (or now, maul)
rare mica
you dwh, then bgs
if you see any tob team that is doing more than 1 hammer per person on any given boss, they are trolling
unless it's a trio and like 2 people miss
manic holly
i think you and i have very different ideas of "trolling"
rare mica
if you have something readily available which is better than alternatives, and you choose not to use it for no explicable reason, that is trolling
manic holly
if you have something readily available which is better than alternatives, and y...
how is using 4 bgs specs on xarpus when he's at 60 defence not trolling?
rare mica
the best dps upgrade is to make the boss 0 def
rare mica
this is like...quintuply true for xarpus, because his range def is super high, so if his regular def isn't drained to or near 0, blowpipers are getting absolutely shafted
manic holly
if one person doesn't bring a bgs and the rest do, it will make literally no difference
rare mica
well first of all, if your goal is to maximize your own purples per hour, you'll never run a 4man
manic holly
so running 4 man is trolling too then
rare mica
if you run social 4s that's fine, but trios always have been and always will be best for purples
so that's up to you
manic holly
there are lots of people that do 4 mans lol
why's everyone in this discord think you can only play the game one way
manic holly
it's not just you
it's also the guy that claimed that if you don't have a bgs at tob that you are trolling lol
completely insane statement
rare mica
it isn't always, but it can be
manic holly
right, but he's categorically dismissing the idea of only bringing a dwh or maul
if other people in your group have bgs you can still easily hit 0 def
rare mica
if you don't have a bgs, you're shifting the responsibility on someone else in the group to take one
and say you're doing 4s, if both of your freezers have ralos and neither of them have bgs, you're forcing them to use a less ideal spec for xarpus and also forcing your other dps to bgs nylo and bloat when they could be dclawing and you could bgs instead
it is very common that 1 bgs in 4s is not enough to 0 def xarp
manic holly
if you're raiding with a bunch of mains then maybe they're cool with you not bringing a bgs and they do
rare mica
all of this is cool and dandy but you're much better off just getting your account prepared for content before you send it
just to not have to think about these things
manic holly
maybe i dont want to grind something that i dont really need
rare mica
bgs is good at other content too, and you'll want the bandos plates regardless for torva eventually, so why not just get it
manic holly
if im dry on hilt and dont want to bother
rare mica
then i mean, sure, do what you want
nobody can force you to play the game any which way
rare mica
You can lead a IM to water, but you can’t make him drink IG
this statement remains true
shrewd sigil
I think this dude just likes to argue
quiet wigeon
maybe i dont want to grind something that i dont really need
I delayed bgs for a long time because I felt I could play around it. I still do but when I started to tob thats when for me it felt worth to go get
ive seen people talk about dwh skip before I feel like its pretty similar concept as bgs skip
manic holly
skipping dwh seems way worse
quiet wigeon
imo I just dont think its worth skipping either just cuz itll be harder to get on teams
manic holly
you are definitely right that it will make it harder to find teams if you don't have both
formal prawn
I think this dude just likes to argue
Goes to an iron disc focused on efficiency & proper play, gets mad when people reject inefficient methods 🤦
rare mica
does the disc mainly focus on eff? i was a part of the hardcore cc a long time ago and the community as a whole seemed very casual
frozen lake
I think it's totally fine if you want to rely on teammates to make up for your selfimposed restrictions, you'll just be more limited in what types of teams you have access to
marble lotus
does the disc mainly focus on eff? i was a part of the hardcore cc a long time a...
i think this disc mainly focuses on giving the proper efficient advice with the hard caveat of: "do what you enjoy... it's a game"
e.g. i didn't 3t my way to 99 fishing with barb fishing, but i did a mix of that and afk barb fish
naive ermine
This discord indeed just gives the good advise on what is efficient which is the best approach. You as the player can decide if you find the given advise fun and deviate where you want to. I did alot of noob traps, and enjoyed the process. Would even say id do it again
rare mica
i think this disc mainly focuses on giving the proper efficient advice with the ...
this is the approach i prefer, but i don't like when people pass off suboptimal methods as optimal or efficient
like they're trying to use buzzwords to make themselves look smarter or their point seem more valid
like boaty calling moons gear efficient when it very clearly isn't to anyone who knows better lol
manic holly
Goes to an iron disc focused on efficiency & proper play, gets mad when people r...
Is there an iron disc that isn't hyperfixated on efficiency? Please shoot me an invite if so
My understanding is that this is just "the" discord for ironman mode
quiet wigeon
osrs discord ironman channel is more laidback/casual
manic holly
Regrettably I got banned from the official osrs discord many years ago
quiet wigeon
some of the theory on routes are pretty extreme esp megarares but just use information and create your own judgement
did u try appealing?
formal prawn
Regrettably I got banned from the official osrs discord many years ago <:kekw:63...
I’m shocked
quiet wigeon
i come from a main and ironman commuity seems to be alot more respectful i think partially it has to do with the discrimination from mains
manic holly
this is the approach i prefer, but i don't like when people pass off suboptimal ...
I've never claimed any of my advice as the most efficient way to play
quiet wigeon
if you think this is rough its alot worse in other places
manic holly
did u try appealing?
I could I guess, I don't really care enough to honestly
I like being in an iron only disc
crude pike
i come from a main and ironman commuity seems to be alot more respectful i think...
Wdr inferno/colo channel bis for this
manic holly
True
rare mica
wdr in general bis mainscape nuthugging
tbf
irons come in looking for gear advice and they're potting fang small mutt in regs
idgi tbh, im all for pushing content with some dogshit, part of the fun of ironman
but coming to a gear advice channel and getting offended when someone calls your bad gear bad
is next level stupid
frozen lake
There is offmeta advice given here, but moons is almost like a 100% timeloss so most people don't really care about crafting a progression around it
Missing the forest for the trees type stuff
manic holly
There is offmeta advice given here, but moons is almost like a 100% timeloss so ...
how is it a "100% timeloss"
wouldn't that mean literally everything you get at moons is completely worthless in any scenario
frozen lake
No, it means it doesn't help you get anything better
manic holly
it does tho 🤨
frozen lake
And all of it gets replaced
crude pike
Bis huey tail so only 98% timeloss!
frozen lake
Yeah that's why I said almost
manic holly
if your expectation is to get bis gear at moons then you have the wrong expectation
quiet wigeon
the thing for very niche use cases/later use cases u can come back with better gear and do moons if u want that stuff for tob or huey
frozen lake
Not really tbh
The only thing that gets strictly replaced is bofa, but grinding out shadow + tbow you will save time overall
manic holly
torso gets replaced
frozen lake
Yeah but you use it for a while
eager shard
3-4 hour grind is way faster than moons or bandos
frozen lake
Basically all the way until 100 cb in melees and its like an hour grind
manic holly
3-4 hour grind is way faster than moons or bandos
yeah but you also get like 10x the stuff at moons lol
crude pike
no you don't
quiet wigeon
moons didint really fit in alot of what i valued for progression its awkward to use for slayer stuff and it doesint help u at cg
manic holly
no you don't
you get 3 entire armor sets + weapons and some skilling supplies
as opposed to a single top for one combat style
quiet wigeon
torso kills value of bloodmoon alot imo atleast for slayer
manic holly
its like going to barrows and saying you get 6 armor sets wwd
all 3 moons sets are usable unlike barrows
frozen lake
Eclipse is worthless tbh
manic holly
it's not
frozen lake
I think blood has the biggest argument
crude pike
.75 blue, 0 from eclipse, .5 from blood
manic holly
it's better than anything else you can get with the same number of hrs invested
crude pike
no it's absolutely not
manic holly
no it's absolutely not
name one then
eager shard
d1 rage baiter
crude pike
we're investing what, 20-30 hours for this at low level?
quiet wigeon
its same concept as why u didint probaly make steel and mithril scimtar on your progression
u can get better options with minimal downside
manic holly
its same concept as why u didint probaly make steel and mithril scimtar on your ...
waterfall quest requires almost zero skill, that's not really comparable to cg lmao
crude pike
so you have 3 ish hours for bloodbark, 1-2 hours for torso, and almost half your cg grind done
for the same time
eager shard
skill as justification for not doing a grind??
frozen lake
waterfall quest requires almost zero skill, that's not really comparable to cg l...
What does waterfall quest have to do with scims
manic holly
for the same time
and no comparable str bonus for head and legs?
frozen lake
You mean monkey madness 😛
manic holly
or a ranged set as good as eclipse
crude pike
and no comparable str bonus for head and legs?
neit helm
crude pike
legs you drop at most content
eager shard
+2 str doesnt matter
quiet wigeon
What does waterfall quest have to do with scims
it allows you to skip needing other scims since u can just get att lvl and use a better one
frozen lake
it allows you to skip needing other scims since u can just get att lvl and use a...
Oh I'm dumb
I was thinking about fire giants ignore me
quiet wigeon
ye i was trying to use kinda a wack analogy its not great but just what i came up with
crude pike
and we run rune sword instead of zmi warriors for scimmy early anyway
frozen lake
Eclipse is about the same as black dhide
crude pike
unless you're a wow streamer
manic holly
so you have 3 ish hours for bloodbark, 1-2 hours for torso, and almost half your...
find me one noob that can get "almost half your cg grind done" in 10 hours lmfao
this is just bad faith
crude pike
20 hours
manic holly
your math does not add up
frozen lake
10 hours is bad faith tbh
crude pike
its not 10 lol
I'd expect someone doing early moons to spend 30 ish hours to green
or more
I finished in 15-20 in good gear
frozen lake
I'm not sure if you finish it with 10 hours in max
quiet wigeon
ye u can basically just have done cg grind instead of moons
manic holly
still bad faith
quiet wigeon
or have progressed it alot
crude pike
cg is like 50-60 hours yes
manic holly
ok bud
crude pike
?
manic holly
the expectation that your average noob can complete cg in 50 hours average is insane
frozen lake
I think thats a bit generous but imo so is moons in 20 depending on how early we are talking
crude pike
I gave a range for the noobs
frozen lake
I guess if you assume people have 99 all melees at crabs then maybe
quiet wigeon
if your looking to progress it actually is easier getting better gear then trying to do raids/endgame content with moons
manic holly
I gave a range for the noobs
ok, so in that case, 20 hours is almost half of 60
crude pike
25 since we're at moons for 30 yes
eager shard
assuming they are a noob they wouldnt be able to do 300 toas for a shadow
manic holly
you also have to do the entire sote questline and get every single stat req for that, how does that factor in
eager shard
assuming they are a noob they cant do effiecent cox for tbow
crude pike
lmao
eager shard
gg then what buddy
carmine kestrel
assuming there a noob they cant do barrows
frozen lake
Usually people acquire skill with cg which is also nice but hard to account for
crude pike
we can go over time to get cg gp as well if you wanna do that
frozen lake
Moons is more spank and tank
manic holly
we can go over time to get cg gp as well if you wanna do that
you still havent told me how you can get ranged gear comparable to eclipse set within 30 hours
crude pike
you don't
quiet wigeon
bowfa takes longer but its not 1-1 bowfa is a signifcantly bigger upgrade then having all moons gear provides
manic holly
what if their clan wants them to do something that needs ranged gear
crude pike
like what
quiet wigeon
they can use rcb thats kinda lvl atlatl is at
manic holly
do you realize that the average player can't blow 100 hrs on something before actually beginning to play the game
crude pike
that's literally all of osrs
manic holly
no it's not lol
carmine kestrel
more then 60% of the player base plays 6 hrs + a day
manic holly
more then 60% of the player base plays 6 hrs + a day
is this actually true
i honestly want to see stats on that if they exist
sweet fog
I played for a year before I got to CG.
carmine kestrel
is this actually true
if numbers are like rs3 then yes
manic holly
i would not assume that
sweet fog
It's pretty "late" in progression in terms of hours spent. By the time someone gets there, they've shown they're in it. I had never played runescape before the ironman also, so I was slow.
void salmon
How long do people usually spend at barrows before going to moons? Like idk what the rate is on average
manic holly
rs3 has a tiny playerbase compared to osrs, it'd make sense that they are sweatier
carmine kestrel
not sweaiter at all
manic holly
How long do people usually spend at barrows before going to moons? Like idk what...
u really just need one decent top and one decent legs
crude pike
idk what ppl do for barrows at that level ngl, are we using mory legs or arc tp in house
can assume its a few hours at least
manic holly
i got mory legs extremely early
crude pike
but ppl justify barrows early by saying you need a set for diary so
even tho you do like 25 chest/hr later
manic holly
you spend 100s of hours questing
in my view questing is a lot more interesting than cg, but not everyone will see it the same
crude pike
I enjoy the early game, lotta dopamine
quiet wigeon
do you realize that the average player can't blow 100 hrs on something before ac...
i think ppl have a very false perception of hm dps they actually are gaining from moons esp atlatl
manic holly
questing also isn't rng based so that you have to flip a coin and do the quest again if you lose the coin flip
manic holly
i think ppl have a very false perception of hm dps they actually are gaining fro...
this is with 99s, overload, and not considering atlatl set effect, on olm head
with shit gear
crude pike
that looks like a great way to show why you don't spend 30 hours getting atl lol
rcb good
carmine kestrel
rcb goes hard
manic holly
rcb is great but you can't use it in every case
and it still loses to atlatl by >10%
even when ur getting the best case from it
crude pike
but also assuming 99s so
manic holly
but also assuming 99s so
could reduce the stats and it would show a similar picture
quiet wigeon
calc does not show 10% worse but tbh idk if that calc factors in burn dmg or not
crude pike
it doesn't make it 10% lol
eager shard
this one does
manic holly
calc does not show 10% worse but tbh idk if that calc factors in burn dmg or not
atlatl set effect adds at least 0.7-0.8 dps
manic holly
this one does
whats gear/stats
quiet wigeon
if it accounts burn then its like 3% worse also 5t olm is much easier esp for solos
manic holly
no b ring?
crude pike
you'd have zerk ring
carmine kestrel
no archer ring?
eager shard
no
crude pike
but again, no point really calcing this, you aren't sending 1k olm like this
carmine kestrel
then a shadow
eager shard
yeah
crude pike
if you wanna send the occasional shit with the boys, rcb looks great
eager shard
22 ttk over 500 times not counting the rest of the raid
manic holly
you won't have any mage, you'll have what, z axe for hand?
eye of ayak
manic holly
scobow
eager shard
he has scobow i think
manic holly
atl tormented demons
crude pike
oh so now we lose more time not having bowfa
crude pike
if you can't even switch for tds wwd at doom
upper egret
What’s best mining training (pre 70) for people who hate mining
manic holly
if you can't even switch for tds wwd at doom
you dont switch at doom
crude pike
need a lot of sand
manic holly
other than 1 weapon
crude pike
its very intensive
manic holly
sure
crude pike
the content in general
manic holly
i just hate switching
crude pike
why would you wanna raid then
eager shard
Just because you dont like switching doesnt mean moons is better going for than bowfa
!?
manic holly
ofc u have to switch
manic holly
Just because you dont like switching doesnt mean moons is better going for than ...
all im saying is moons is easier than going for bofa
its also worse than bofa
for some noobs that is an acceptable tradeoff
carmine kestrel
bwofa bis
carmine kestrel
but if ur playing a iron ur most likly not a noob
crude pike
everyone does first acc iron these days 😔
quiet wigeon
maybe cuz i havint felt like skipping or delaying bowfa
carmine kestrel
mainscape bad if u choice for it to be bad
crude pike
ppl come in from other games and expect to be handheld when the gamemode is supposed to be difficult
carmine kestrel
but u should always get bwofa
quiet wigeon
but ur calc just showed that atlatl is closer to rcb then bowfa. idt i would feel compelled to worry about upgrade when im basically doing rcb dps regardless also 3t is difficult
manic holly
ppl come in from other games and expect to be handheld when the gamemode is supp...
i dont think ironman is supposed to be difficult
its supposed to be whatever u want it to be
frozen lake
It is
crude pike
its a challenge gamemode
carmine kestrel
iron is suppose to be difficult
crude pike
its supposed to take longer
frozen lake
If you want to do whatever you want go play main
frozen lake
that is true
Nice cat btw
crude pike
correct, I'm just saying ppl come in, shit takes a long time and ppl want it to take less time
carmine kestrel
it just come down to when playing iron u want to as efficent as u can
manic holly
If you want to do whatever you want go play main
the reality is that if youre playing main, you feel like an idiot if youre doing anything other than optimizing for max gp/hr
manic holly
Nice cat btw
ty u2
carmine kestrel
as a iron ur optimizing xp/h
manic holly
correct, I'm just saying ppl come in, shit takes a long time and ppl want it to ...
i think its fine to give up on something if its taking too much time as well
manic holly
as a iron ur optimizing xp/h
i dont, i optimize for if i enjoy it
carmine kestrel
then u can play a main that not optimze all about gp/hr
crude pike
It's really telling that the only ppl you see doing raids/hl content with moons are streamers, and ppl like lake who've done it before immediately went back to getting a bowfa on new hc cuz he hated it so much lol
frozen lake
the reality is that if youre playing main, you feel like an idiot if youre doing...
I never felt like that when playing main really
I just had 3 rune dragon alts going and I never had to worry about gp 
Back in the day when you could make a bond back in a couple hours on an alt
manic holly
if you are the type of person to care about efficiency even remotely then that is a natural impulse
frozen lake
Yeah
manic holly
how many mains chop yews and sell them
manic holly
cuz its not efficient at all
carmine kestrel
what irons chop yew?
frozen lake
Atleast most people I know don't care about gp when doing like cox vs nex vs toa or whatever
manic holly
Atleast most people I know don't care about gp when doing like cox vs nex vs toa...
thats because those at least all give you a decent amount
within an order of magnitude of each other
frozen lake
Yep
People don't always go for the highest method was my point. Otherwise colo wouldn't have stayed such good money for such a long time
manic holly
To me, the purpose of ironman mode is to encourage you to experience as much of the game as possible. Some people will try to go for max efficiency instead, which is fine, but I don't think everyone has that same priority
frozen lake
It's really telling that the only ppl you see doing raids/hl content with moons ...
Either way I agree with this statement
carmine kestrel
To me, the purpose of ironman mode is to encourage you to experience as much of ...
u clog on either game mode
frozen lake
I cant remember the last time I've seen an iron, clannie or otherwise stick to atlatl for long
manic holly
u clog on either game mode
Sure, but it means a lot more on ironman when you get a specific drop
carmine kestrel
the 7 range is killer
frozen lake
Yeah unless it's an atlatl
carmine kestrel
Sure, but it means a lot more on ironman when you get a specific drop
to me makes no difference
quiet wigeon
I have a friend thats also hard on skipping bowfa-but the general trend is what shwax said like if u have alot of experince u can take atlatl far
rare mica
260 messages in the last 40 mintues what the fuck happened
is the "moons early bad" concept really that controversial
manic holly
is the "moons early bad" concept really that controversial
i think its a "moons at all bad"
eager shard
Moons good for ca and clogs!
frozen lake
100% subjective but I hate moons even in max
rare mica
it's not, at all. blue moon is needed for a master clue, and a good chunk of kc is needed for CA's so you get some passively.
what's bad is doing it at 60-70 stats with a d scim or an arkan blade, that is dogshit
manic holly
Moons good for ca and clogs!
my scalding take is that you should do moons pre-scythe rather than post-scythe
carmine kestrel
getting 8 kill a hr is great
rare mica
moons is good for clog number go up and for some other things, but doing it early for account progression is dogshit
frozen lake
Prescythe is totally fine, zhasta+bandos is very solid
manic holly
Prescythe is totally fine, zhasta+bandos is very solid
i used z hasta to get mine
rare mica
the argument for moons is you get gear, the point of gear is to save time doing other content, and the time saved with moon gear will never make up the time you spend doing it on a mid lvl account
frozen lake
How did you get it? Gen curious
manic holly
How did you get it? Gen curious
i plead the fifth
rare mica
if you have bandos+hasta you've defeated any purpose of getting blood moon
frozen lake
But then you're doing a bunch of slayer without bofa and items downstream from there
rare mica
eclipse moon is already dead content
manic holly
if you have bandos+hasta you've defeated any purpose of getting blood moon
correct, i don't have blood moon
other than chest
manic holly
Because all the prebofa methods suck
i enjoyed it
frozen lake
I guess if you're skilled you can melee and flick everything
rare mica
someone who can do that has no reason not to be at cg
manic holly
someone who can do that has no reason not to be at cg
elfphobia
quiet wigeon
i think way alot of ppl prob go about is socbo then do toa for lb then zammy probaly
frozen lake
I know one guy in here did a purposeful atlatl run
rare mica
and zammy is zammy so even if you're a g at melee flick you still get RRAAAAAAAAAUGH sometimes and lose 40 hp and 20 prayer and your mom is ded
frozen lake
But he was doing 430 toass or something with it
rare mica
if you were to skip bowfa
atlatl is still useless
because you're only using it at zebak
you eye everything else
frozen lake
The argument is atlatl->scobo->eye I think
rare mica
if you're raiding with a warped scep or a trident and no bowfa then we need to realize the year we're living in
frozen lake
Although you can mage tds maybe?
carmine kestrel
mage is better
frozen lake
Ye
quiet wigeon
bowfa skip is more viable then ever but also still not worth
frozen lake
Either way thats why nobody bothers with coming up with a proper moons route because its too much of a pain if the alternative is simple
manic holly
Either way thats why nobody bothers with coming up with a proper moons route bec...
i personally would not be able to tolerate doing 1000 cg if i go dry
quiet wigeon
even if u have shadow u still have to range things sometimes eye cant replace range stuff entirely olm head vasa etc are some examples
frozen lake
Gotta keep in mind it's very unlikely to happen
rare mica
does that sound more or less painful than 1500 atlatl expert toa
frozen lake
Average completion is 430 or so
rare mica
like if you're gonna use dry streaks as the argument, id rather neck than do 1k+ toa without a bowfa on an ironman
can't cherrypick
again, the only maybe scenario where i can accept not doing cg is if you're truly going to camp toa till shadow and you have an eye
and in this case, eclipse is still doggy
manic holly
Gotta keep in mind it's very unlikely to happen
8% chance
manic holly
can't cherrypick
you can, because i find some content worse than others to actually do
i actually think doom is kinda enjoyable
even if i go dry on it
if i did 1000 cg and had nothing to show for it i'd be pissed
i dont like the prep phase i think its lame
quiet wigeon
if your having fun thats what matters- I definitely skipped things and delayed them as well but ignoring bowfa is like ignoring moons in ur eyes
crude pike
you'd have over 100m gp and crafting for zenytes almost banked lol
manic holly
i dont think anyone has to do moons, and i would not encourage them to do it if they didnt enjoy it
shrewd sigil
Bro HOW are we still doing this
rare mica
bp is pretty good dps tbh if ur willing to use it
ehhhhhh not in this case
im under the impression no bowfa also means no bgs
unless you’re doing like…freeze eye bandos? idk how that goes
eager shard
Probably no cash for fletching either
quiet wigeon
ye i didint think about that
manic holly
again, the only *maybe* scenario where i can accept not doing cg is if you're tr...
is eye better or comparable dps to bofa at toa?
crude pike
they're probably doing horn hammer toa duos
rare mica
and piping zebak without bgs or masori is gonna be real bad, probably worse than rcb
rare mica
is eye better or comparable dps to bofa at toa?
it’s better at akkha, can be better at wardens depending on gear, terrible at zebak
manic holly
ok ez just atlatl zebak
crude pike
you gotta have pretty cracked mage gear at wardens
carmine kestrel
yikes
crude pike
ye
manic holly
well yeah atlatl is not even close to bofa
crude pike
i think with conf magebook you only need 1 virtus piece for eye to beat
my setup needed more, but I guess its rl dependent
eager shard
Is this assuming confliction
rare mica
ofc, you don’t leave doom until you have all the uniques
eager shard
marble lotus
im happy i did my red prison sentence lmao
carmine kestrel
i did 3k for fun
daring perch
I think it’s a silly assumption that someone getting burnt at cg will grind doom completion
daring perch
Has the skill to*
rare mica
kinda the Ironman thing
daring perch
It’s true
pale viper
good luck
rare mica
it’s hard to argue against “i don’t want to burn out from grinding x” because burnout is very subjective
but at what point is it time to decide “maybe iron isn’t for me?”
cause if you burn easily
got some bad news
manic holly
I think it’s a silly assumption that someone getting burnt at cg will grind doom...
i will do it out of spite now
daring perch
Do it no balls
manic holly
frankly, in theory, you don't even need skill. you just need to be able to tolerate it so much that you do it a lot
manic holly
you get treads starting at delve 4
pale viper
Nally zcb tbow?
chally tbow no zcb
eager shard
Bp or d knives?
pale viper
bp specs for healing in car phase
eager shard
I wanna try to go to 16 but too skill issued
manic holly
got some bad news
its ok to do ironman even if u get burnt out of something, u can just do different content
its also a guarantee that you will go very dry on something at some point, and you will probably need to take a break when that happens
frozen lake
i loved doom even after going dry
I love doom, unfortunatley couldnt finish before going abroad for 3 weeks and now sailing is announced
I'm kinda dry at doom (not really)
On rate for 6 uniques but got 2
My threshhold for complaining about dryness is 2x rate
I've seen some streamers go dry at early moons too, seemed awful
rare mica
i went about 3.7k total and like 1k deep delves before first treads
a guy in my clan went to rank 1 irons before getting his first eye
stark sphinx
why has this thread become #ironman-discussion 2.0
manic holly
ironman discussion was great, let's have ironman discussion 2
eager shard
Because there was a moons glazer
formal prawn
Every one of these off the rails threads is from bowfa skip convos with someone adamantly supporting another method lol
frozen lake
I get baited into the discussion every time 🙁
stark sphinx
i blame myself
frozen lake
Actually I love to argue but you guys are rights its gone off topic
stark sphinx
i baited by listing noob traps
frozen lake
I added like 200 comments by saying moons is almost 100% timeloss
frozen lake
Wait theres the exact same discussion in iroman discussion
manic holly
i baited by listing noob traps
correct
outer fern
I added like 200 comments by saying moons is almost 100% timeloss
Is barrows 100% time loss too? Genuinely asking
manic holly
"100% time loss" doesnt really make sense if it gives you any resources at all
crude pike
the gear doesn't really have uses, you do need a set for the elite diary, so it needs to be done at some point
crude pike
you might get some use out of ahrims pieces or tanking with karils
having axe is nice for hydra CA so you don't have to fun weapon thrall it
rare mica
ahrims is a slight upgrade over bloodbark in some places, but early game barrows is long
if you want to do barrows for cas or diary there’s virtually no reason to do so pre-eye
outer fern
Lmao. Ok so what I’m reading between the lines is that it’s about a 64.3% time loss
And to just use Rune and Black DHide
stark sphinx
optimally you dont even use that
quiet wigeon
u skip with better items like bloodbark-bandos/oathplate-bowfa/carmor
manic holly
basically, you skip everything other than bis or near-bis gear
just get bofa cuz u dont need any gear to get it
then get all the bis shit with bofa
stark sphinx
ah yes, the over exaggeration of the century
manic holly
nah its pretty accurate
quiet wigeon
bowfa is actually a pretty terrible item at the endgame but its one of the few things thats worth getting before you throw it away
outer fern
Lmao. Basically, all the stepping stones Jagex added aren’t worth it. Sounds like Jagex has some balancing to do.
stark sphinx
i mean
manic holly
Lmao. Basically, all the stepping stones Jagex added aren’t worth it. Sounds lik...
correct
stark sphinx
what are all the stepping stones?
manic holly
what are all the stepping stones?
moons
stark sphinx
like, you have prayer, so non str armour doesnt matter for melee
outer fern
Barrows Into moons into cg
stark sphinx
so you are going from fighter torso, to bandos, to oathplate/torva
quiet wigeon
i think for how difficult (*easy) moons/barrows is its in a good spot in terms of power boost
manic holly
so you are going from fighter torso, to bandos, to oathplate/torva
why use bandos? oathplate exists
stark sphinx
you get bgs
outer fern
I feel like Karils is great against stuff that Ranges /Mages. then you can use melee and range swap? Idk
manic holly
you also likely get bandos
right which you won't use because you can get oathplate instead
stark sphinx
sure, ignore all of slayer grind
manic holly
you don't need bandos armor to get oathplate
quiet wigeon
you will want for niche torva applications super deep
manic holly
you don't need bandos armor to kill tds either
crude pike
Barrows Into moons into cg
the thing is cg needs no gear, so its just the ultimate pipeline
stark sphinx
str bonus goes crazy with arclight
crude pike
if you needed gear it wouldn't be on the list at all
manic holly
you will want for niche torva applications super deep
true but at that point it's broken down
outer fern
I’m new to runescape. I genuinely don’t know the shit you guys are spouting off about as if it’s common knowledge
stark sphinx
again, youll use bandos for all of slayer really
outer fern
I was following thread early on
quiet wigeon
true but at that point it's broken down
ye but that alone gives u a reason to get bandos at some point
stark sphinx
thats not a small amount of time
rare mica
bandos for all of slayer huh
manic holly
I’m new to runescape. I genuinely don’t know the shit you guys are spouting off ...
tldr; if you can tolerate grinding out bofa than do that, if you cant tolerate that than do whatever you want
crude pike
you do a lot of melee early
outer fern
I have only melee my tasks. But I’m only 80 slayer
I haven’t gotten many bursting tasks yet
quiet wigeon
u have torso 2str bonus from tassets is very minimal for pvm and training
outer fern
And CBA cannon
quiet wigeon
ppl bin legs half the time
rare mica
you barely even do any slayer until post bowfa
crude pike
unless we're talking doing turael to only barrage or smth lol
rare mica
don’t you bowfa all your non barrage tasks atp
rare mica
but you don’t have strong melee options early
manic holly
I have only melee my tasks. But I’m only 80 slayer
80 slayer is already a good number
u can barrage nechs
crude pike
you get hasta
stark sphinx
but you don’t have strong melee options early
its gonna be hasta, arclight
rare mica
most melee xp comes from hitting a demon with arclight or hitting a barrage stack with chally
crude pike
And CBA cannon
yeah only thing you really want cannon for is smokes for slayer
maybe some wildy stuff
pallid crater
Daggs and kalphites?
manic holly
i cannon shamans but i have been deemed insane
crude pike
kalphite is a block
dags you barrage
rare mica
or do dks
rare mica
2/4 rings aren’t useless
pallid crater
And also red x with main wen I feel like it
crude pike
its fine at shamans
pallid crater
kalphite is a block
dags you barrage
Oooh
Burst??
Never seen that one
At cata??
crude pike
yeah
quiet wigeon
melee is strong a lot of tasks
is it good early though? like if ur using runescim/ancient staff for 69slayer ye. but i feel like post that u mainly are barraging/bursting outside of tds/some niche things.
crude pike
you want barrage for the timer tho
pallid crater
Damm
manic holly
burst is ass
im guessing the answer to mage before barrage is alching at sep
pallid crater
you want barrage for the timer tho
Aggro timing Im guessing u refering to?
crude pike
no, freeze timer
rare mica
alch at sep, do mta
pallid crater
I burst rn
manic holly
I dont got barrage
worth noting you can divine mage pot to barrage 4 levels earlier
shrewd sigil
tldr; if you can tolerate grinding out bofa than do that, if you cant tolerate t...
With the caveat that what ever else you do will be strictly worse right?
That’s the whole point of this conversation
crude pike
if you can't do em I still wouldn't cannon unless you got a ton of cballs
manic holly
With the caveat that what ever else you do will be strictly worse right?
no shit, that's the "if"
shrewd sigil
You’re actually a gronk btw
pallid crater
if you can't do em I still wouldn't cannon unless you got a ton of cballs
Yh learned fast from my first daggs task lmaoo
Eats cannons
shrewd sigil
The whole point of this argument is that the discord is telling you the most efficient way to do something, they aren’t telling you the only way to do things
manic holly
The whole point of this argument is that the discord is telling you the most eff...
except a lot of them are 😂
shrewd sigil
You’re arguing like you’re being told you cannot play the game how you like
crude pike
he's just baiting at this point
shrewd sigil
except a lot of them are 😂
That’s strictly not what’s happening and for you to argue the opposite is disingenuous
crude pike
conversation has been run through
manic holly
That’s strictly not what’s happening and for you to argue the opposite is dising...
its not, i can reference tons of people saying you should never do moons
shrewd sigil
its not, i can reference tons of people saying you should never do moons
You can read right? You know what I’m saying right?
Keyword should
They aren’t saying can’t
manic holly
You can read right? You know what I’m saying right?
looks like you can't
shrewd sigil
If you ask a question in a public forum dedicated to finding and discussing the most efficient ways to do things, why would you expect anything but?
No one is saying you can’t skip bowfa or do moons
They are just telling you it’s not the best option
You’re taking everything said in this discord as bad faith, and using it to argue with everyone
You know you’re doing it too
Just accept you want to do your own methods, and move on
manic holly
If you ask a question in a public forum dedicated to finding and discussing the ...
it's okay to express how to do things efficiently, it's also okay to express how to do things if you don't want to do the efficient route
shrewd sigil
Who ever said it’s not
manic holly
people get pissed when i do the latter