#Royal Titans and BuhSailor guide

321 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

bronze sage
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i presume you want to swing by for the ranged and magic prayer pre-CG as it's like 1/100 and would speed up CG quite a bit and is easily doable in your pre-CG gear?

outer bone
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“Quite a bit” is definitely an overstatement

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I think if they end up recommending it, it would be more about the overall benefits (especially replacing seers (i) as the source of a barrage max hit) rather than specifically to speed up CG.

calm obsidian
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Only one sentence but I think there's already like three or four questionable or wrong statements in there

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  • I think current best estimate of scroll droprate is 2x 1/256 in a solo, or maybe half that in a duo. That's not close to 1/100
  • the scrolls barely speed up CG
  • titans are not that doable in pre-CG gear, and in fact would require going out of your way for to get some reasonable options
  • we don't know the droprates or the kill times at low level or the contribution scaling yet, so it's really difficult to tell whether it'd be good
  • if the scrolls end up being good, and if it ends up being good early, it'd be for generic benefit. You still wouldn't notice them at CG unless you recorded kills and did statistical analysis, probably
sullen trellis
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yeah I think people overestimate how useful these prayers are in CG, I believe their main use is definitely post-CG and they're certainly easier to get with better-than-pre-CG gear

calm obsidian
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To be honest that's just a classic CG symptom. People love clamouring for upgrades, it lets one blame the lack of the upgrade rather than personal mistakes

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previously it was cox prayers but that was too unrealistic, so now people are crying over titans prayers when they die at cg

bronze sage
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na, my brain was more this might speed up CG when you gotta do like 400-800 of it

calm obsidian
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it does. My guess it by as much as 6 seconds per kill

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on average, of course. And even per scroll, so with 2 of them thats twice the benefit

sullen trellis
calm obsidian
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its very doable, but bowfa + fang is 1:10-1:40 kills while rcb + z axe + 62 ranged is 3-4 minute kills

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you can do it with black knives if you wanted, go and have a blast

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its just not very fast

sullen trellis
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at 95 range with deadeye I save about 4s per kill

calm obsidian
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it also saves some time during prep

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thats why I think its more

sullen trellis
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hm that's true, I haven't thought of that

calm obsidian
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but yes its single digit seconds per kill ish

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btw 1:10 was too optimistic, my own pb is worse

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but 1:40 duos in that gear is slow

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so between those

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oh 2:30 is fine, but do keep in mind that 'pre-chinning', where you get most benefit from deadeye, means 70 ranged rcb together with 75/85/75 melees zombie axe

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its not going to be great

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either way if the wiki rates are accurate the duo rate, if you get half contribution, is about 1/250 for a scroll (not 2x 1/250). And then for both scrolls

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so if its 2:30 kills, call it 22 kph with banking, we're looking at 22 hours

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to get both

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you'd save a lot more than that in the long run

hollow inlet
calm obsidian
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cg alone doesnt justify it, but you could perhaps chin to only 89 instead of 92

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you'll benfit at graardor and kril and tds and dgs

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there's knock-on effects here

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that would be the main payoff

calm obsidian
hollow inlet
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i'm getting 4-5min solos with macas and rcb

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no full blood moon

oak cloak
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is da4 ammy huge for giants too?

calm obsidian
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also if you want the scrolls eventually anyway you're not really spending 22 hours, you're just spending the time compared to what itd take to get it later anyway

calm obsidian
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but the meta kph, the 60+ stuff, seems to be to dump claw specs on entry and da4 every other kill, alternating

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that way the instance stays open

hollow inlet
calm obsidian
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but its day 2, idk whats good

hollow inlet
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so a duo would be 2-2.5min with my gear and stats

calm obsidian
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5 minute solos arent better than 2:30 duos

rotund steppe
hollow inlet
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i'm just pointing out that 3-4min duos seem inaccurate

calm obsidian
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there is a comment on the wiki about this

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thats all I know

hollow inlet
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most of my ranged dps is from rubies even at 72 ranged for me

calm obsidian
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I dont know what 'according to contribution' means

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is it total damage? do you get points for clearing a wall? do the minions count for full damage, or half, or a seventeenth, or double?

hollow inlet
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i wonder if it's just (%dmg/100)*loot

calm obsidian
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extra points for finishing blow? I dont know

hollow inlet
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minions def dont do shit

calm obsidian
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people are saying minions count for full

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but im glad you know better

hollow inlet
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i often am responsible for all of the minions and still get singular seed drops

halcyon hare
hollow inlet
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so they either dont do shit or barely anything

bronze sage
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i have a feeling that comons scale, but uniques don't as they're a pre-roll

calm obsidian
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maybe you just dont do shit the rest of the kill

hollow inlet
hollow inlet
calm obsidian
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commonly this is released a week or a few weeks after release

halcyon hare
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You both have RCB and maracas without the full set?

calm obsidian
hollow inlet
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no

gusty whale
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"Responsible for minions" is interesting to me. I have not killed a single minion nor have I seen a single minion killed by any duo partner I've had.

hollow inlet
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teammates generally have full blood moon and bowfa

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i'd say i deal like 35-40% of the damage

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and do all of the minions

oak cloak
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lol

halcyon hare
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Full blood and Bofa is going to do a lot more damage than just the boppers and RCB my guy.

hollow inlet
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rubies are def carrying me a bit

calm obsidian
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anyway I think the answer to the original and actual question is: don't overhype the low level titans prayers

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they might be OK, but they're not going to be a game changer

halcyon hare
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they have a ton more stats on you also

hollow inlet
late meadow
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Are these bosses good to do alongside tracts for the seeds?

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Was the only reason why I was gonna pick them up pre cg

hollow inlet
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a lot of my kills were with ppl that were like 5 cmb levels higher

calm obsidian
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no, titans are not a good source of seeds

hollow inlet
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theyre a nice bonus

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but not a selling point

calm obsidian
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thinking rcb + macas is 35-40% compared to bowfa + full blood moon is a hot take

lament halo
hollow inlet
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tbf even at 40% it means that the teammate dealt 1.5x more damage

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at 35% it's almost double

calm obsidian
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well the mage scroll is easy to justify para

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since it replaces seers ring (i) for the 39 ice barrage max on task

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ironically thats the titan that doesnt give seeds

calm obsidian
lament halo
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sure yea I think you would probably get it but before or after cg is the question

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if it takes too long then IMO chin, cg, get pipe, go titans?

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idk if pipe even needed

calm obsidian
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dont need pipe for titans

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fang good though

halcyon hare
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Mage scroll also seems to have a lot more value into late game when it's 3% compared to 4%. Going to be a lot more cases where you don't lose maxes later on. Much bigger gap between deadeye and rigour.

lament halo
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for that one mechanic

hollow inlet
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wave sufficient

calm obsidian
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wave is sufficient

lament halo
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rip

calm obsidian
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you just need +70 mage acc

hollow inlet
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and 75 magic

calm obsidian
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which is a bit of an ask at lower level gear

lament halo
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how much is bloodbark top bot

bronze sage
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same as mystic

calm obsidian
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37 together

hollow inlet
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1 more per piece

bronze sage
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you want a MA2 cape with them probably

lament halo
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37 + ma2 15 is 52
still need another 18

hollow inlet
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or mages book

lament halo
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Muspah sceptre is 20

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So there you go

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4-way

hollow inlet
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bgloves

calm obsidian
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another argument is that if you're going to be low level titans, the usual argument for thralls applies

halcyon hare
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Barrows gloves at that stage too, you wouldn't have feros

calm obsidian
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thralls are meta for endgame gear, they may also be meta for poor man gear

lament halo
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Ah is it possible to skip that mechanic entirely and camp Arceuus instead?

calm obsidian
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just tank the mechanics

calm obsidian
lament halo
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Ppl who plan ahead and have brews win again I guess

calm obsidian
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but it opens a gap

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no you dont brew para

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you da4 (well, ferox/pool) each kill

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amulet puts you right at the entrance

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is my thinking, at least. Either way its a pretty interesting task to optimise this for low level gear and stats

lament halo
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thought that would only be legit for da4 due to time loss to run to pool in ferox
how fast is the respawn? 15s more than enough I guess

hollow inlet
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18s

oak cloak
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ferox doesnt restore spec, dno if relevant

lament halo
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Is this one of those "slot in after bclaws" grinds then

calm obsidian
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I don't know

cobalt thorn
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dk has been doing da4 and he says its really good

calm obsidian
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having deadeye before chinning would be really nice

lament halo
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True

calm obsidian
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but im not sure if the hours justify it

lament halo
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Yea I need to learn more about contribution% and exact drop mechanics

cobalt thorn
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if the uniques arent weighted too heavily against contribution u can easily get boosted fast kills by soemone with scythe

calm obsidian
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unreleased but I'm more concerned about the low level method at all

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is it thralls or normals or what

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rcb + z axe?

cobalt thorn
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if ur doing it with other billybobs in billybob gear itll be really shitty i think

calm obsidian
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leech off a high level or duo low level?

lament halo
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Yea that's why I wanted to know contribution% mechanics
Leeching off of HLC can be OK if it doesn't matter that much

calm obsidian
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its on the wiki

lament halo
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OK so it does and thus you do have to do real DPS

calm obsidian
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if you go to the wiki, and read it, it says it scales

hollow inlet
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ye but the question is how badly it scales

cobalt thorn
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is that actualyl confirmed

low sparrow
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That part is; the question is the scaling/weighing on the contrbution and the scale thereof

cobalt thorn
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or is it just assumed

bronze sage
calm obsidian
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right, good luck

hollow inlet
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jagex said it anyway

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on the Q&a

bronze sage
halcyon hare
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Deadeye for the entire pre rigour pvm life seems really nice tbh. Thats a lot of bofaing between zulrah, zammy, ToA, artio (if you get VW), cox itself,

lament halo
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They usually post the entire video to YT with timestamps. Can look around for it

hollow inlet
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uh lemme find the exact timestamp rq

cobalt thorn
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i know the amount of common loot is according to ur contribution but that should not have weighting on uniques

calm obsidian
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thats the clip

hollow inlet
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"if ur solo or duo it doesnt really matter"

lament halo
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He's talking in terms of scrolls/hr

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Which is the correct metric here

cobalt thorn
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assuming equal contribution

lament halo
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Yea it's possible that a duo carry can finish KC more than 2x as fast

hollow inlet
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so it's prob just (%dmg/100)*base loot

calm obsidian
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take your time to crack this one people, its a complicated one

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I swear people are looking for any straw to grasp that they can somehow buy a boost

hollow inlet
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they def assume equal contrib

cobalt thorn
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u dont need to buy a boost though

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if i had some noob friend who asked me id probably help them

hollow inlet
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although this came out of a jmod that snatched the funny username of the funny content that failed the poll

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so the equal contrib assumption may be wrong

rain forum
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It doesn't matter if it's equal contribution. Scroll chance would be determined by damage dealt

plucky turret
abstract sierra
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Why is the only consideration cg? Prayers will be useful at more content then only cg

lament halo
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chin -> bowfa -> fang -> prayers
or prayers -> chin -> bowfa -> fang

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that's the question

calm obsidian
hollow inlet
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assuming 6s saved you'll save an insane 30mins on avg from the prison

plucky turret
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ye ur right mb

calm obsidian
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the question isn't "get the prayers before chinning or solemnly vow never to touch the content again, pinkie promise I swear"

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you can just get it later with better gear

lament halo
calm obsidian
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im not sure why you are deciding to skip it all the way until max

cobalt thorn
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even post max the mage scroll is useful afaik

calm obsidian
abstract sierra
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So even if it’s only break even it’s worth right?

hollow inlet
calm obsidian
# lament halo that's the question

there might even be other options, idk. I just like fang because

  1. its my own bis, and im maxed
  2. fang scales really well with lower stats
  3. fang is already early in progression
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but idk maybe some time between cg and toa fits

hollow inlet
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63% of ppl get enhanced before 400kc

lament halo
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could be yeah
I'm including to believe that deadeye before toa/cox does pay off but haven't done any math

calm obsidian
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seeing where toa is right now, not having deadeye for bandos, kril and half of tds and dgs is a bit of a stinker

lament halo
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exactly

low sparrow
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I still find it funny I'm out-dpsing whips with a zaxe at this content tho

calm obsidian
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thats the mean

low sparrow
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one dude in my clan is 2.2kc dry; but that's such an extreme outlier

hollow inlet
low sparrow
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idk im at 300kc and 2 armor seeds so, maybe it's backloaded

calm obsidian
abstract sierra
low sparrow
lament halo
abstract sierra
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No in order to calc outlier its upper fence + 1.5*IQR

calm obsidian
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its actually 420.22, mb

lament halo
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is that right? that teeeechnically assumes 6 distinct drops as opposed to 6 of the same drop

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like 6 diff items

calm obsidian
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oh you're right

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my bad, I remember seeing a calc that said 450

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and this is then an underestimate

lament halo
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close enough though. I remember simming out something like mid-400s or low-500s but I don't remember anymore

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yea

calm obsidian
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maybe I saw your sim result

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I really thought it was 450

lament halo
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could spin up another one later, it's fri after all

calm obsidian
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nah dont bother unless you're bored

lament halo
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important to note that you can actually get enh + armour in same drop too
not that it affects the numbers much

oak cloak
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isnt there a thingie in resources

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for drop rates

lament halo
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that's just a calc for amount of resources you get from 400 kc

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but actually I should adjust that number to be more like 450 kc is what we're saying

oak cloak
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this

lament halo
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also has 2021 assumptions like actually using the sapphires/emeralds lul

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o that

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that is indeed a simulation based result

oak cloak
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dno if updated cg is updated tho

lament halo
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but most likely because it's a normie acc who made it it will assume 2 enh

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let's check

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so it just assumes 1 enh 1 armour etc.

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that's why the mean is very close to 400

hollow inlet
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ye def

lament halo
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the more-common items barely affect the rarer item

hollow inlet
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cuz the 279kc is almost what i mentioned earlier

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so its def 1 enh

lament halo
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well 1 enh but also 1 armour only

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and the issue is we need 6 armour

hollow inlet
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oh right

lament halo
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which would bring up both median and mean TTC

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(time to completion)

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easy to sim it tho

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RNG with 1/400 per kc to get enh, 1/50 to get armour, both in separate slot rolls (can get both simultaneously)

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keep going until both enh + >= 6 armour are there

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mark down kc

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repeat for 1e6 trials

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avg

oak cloak
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prompt received

lament halo
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Wrote the code, running it rn. Brb

untold tundra
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Only other question is if Twinflame staff would be good anywhere, is that an obvious no?

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Mostly have seen people talk about the prayers

oak cloak
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it sux yea

untold tundra
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Thought so kekw

lament halo
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496.715021

oak cloak
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(or it has no real uses)

untold tundra
lament halo
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Nice close enough 👍
Call it basically 500 and we're done

lament halo
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Nice trolling

halcyon hare
lament halo
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01134 reacts only

plucky turret
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i think he might look at more comprehensively once rates come out and see if its worth

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atleast thats what was implied to me

untold tundra
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Ye we need actual numbers

oak cloak
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just need vibes

hollow inlet
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they're mandatory

plucky turret
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vibes imo lean towards ppl getting it at around expected wiki rate

hollow inlet
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without deadeye you won't stand a chance against cuthbert

plucky turret
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ive seen most ppl get it fast with some outliers

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but thats just vibes

untold tundra
# lament halo Nice trolling

Ah shoot, I was just being silly and trying to say that was my kc, wasn't trying to imply I simmed it, mb. Wasn't trying to troll.

plucky turret
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i feel like

lament halo
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It was tongue-in-cheek, no worries

oak cloak
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just go send some kills with shit gear and see how it feels pepeLaugh

plucky turret
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its mostly ppl just dont know how dmg contribution factors/ if it does

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if its more like nex then ye the rate is true but not for u

untold tundra
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I've tried with Bowfa/Zaxe solo, it's not too bad. Technically meta-wise I'm post Bandos but pre-Zammy/toa. My account has been very meta up until Zaxe, just grabbed it to try at Titans is all.

hollow inlet
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i'm getting 4-5min solos with rcb and macas (no full set)

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so at rate it's a 20h grind for me

untold tundra
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Uhh I'll have to check my times later

hollow inlet
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actually my kill times are more like 4-4.5min

rotund steppe
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What does a bowfa hasta solo time look like I wonder

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I really just need to go try the boss tbh

hollow inlet
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even had a 3:49 in there

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nvm just got a 5:08

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no rubies at all

hollow inlet
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3:36 with lucky rubies

subtle edge
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I'm in between post CG, bandos, hasta, and all zenytes, but pre fang. I assume these prayers will be good for TOA

bronze sage
hollow inlet
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mystic vigour is still useful

subtle edge
plucky turret
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hardest thing imo is lance before chambers

calm obsidian
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since by that point you also have occult, toxic trident, dwh, bowfa

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which is the basic kit

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torture, anguish

cunning dawn
subtle edge
cobalt thorn
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fang is not good at cox

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if we;re talking about olm

red edge
lament halo
# calm obsidian torture, anguish

Rancour these days I guess
Araxxor comes pretty much same time as occult and both are basically 2-3 tasks to get the drop with bracelets

halcyon hare
lament halo
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Keep going for rancour and then pot melee hydra and get occult from smoke tasks
If still none after finishing hydra then back to Duradel until occult
Doesn't really matter if you get 99 and then head into CoX anyway

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But also a lot of the TDs stuff happens in the early 80s so it's just that you'll have fewer nechs et al en route to 92/93

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I think you'll probably get 2-3 tasks of araxytes and smokes before getting deep past 95 if you use bracelets properly