I enjoyed tob on my main, but started an ironman recently, and was wondering at what point within gear progression it wouldnt be too bad of an idea to do tob. I dont mind skilling and getting upgrades/sidegrades that are deemed necessary before starting but if someone can guide me even a little bit i'd appreciate that ❤️
#Would it be a bad idea to do tob early on in pvm progression?
supple monolith
For context, I have fighter torso, tent whip, d defender, trident of the seas, master wand, f cape, MA2 cape, and elite void
lavish gorge
Well most people wait for things like blowpipe, rigour, and zenytes to tob
Bgs and dwh are big as well
If you have people willing to carry you by all means go with them, you just might struggle to find a team with people you don't know until your gear is better
supple monolith
If you have people willing to carry you by all means go with them, you just migh...
My friends are good at tob and don’t mind taking me which is why I’m considering doing this, just tryna get an idea of what I could get by to make this somewhat feasible
I was planning on getting zenytes and a dwh then sending it, not sure about the blowpipe tho
Was also considering getting a blade too
olive anchor
Chally is really nice if you can
Having the magic lvl for spec transfer is a nice workaround to not having dwh maul or bgs
quick linden
I managed to get an avernic on kc 2 while getting carried by friends at 70s combats, highly recommend
supple monolith
I managed to get an avernic on kc 2 while getting carried by friends at 70s comb...
Nice bro! I wasn’t implying that level of carry tho hahaha. I’m almost maxed cb and can somewhat hold my own during the raid
But I’m thinking if I get a dwh/bgs and a c Hally plus what I already have I should be good
quick linden
Well they asked me, and there I was with my dscim and bone dagger 😅
quick linden
It is!
high cloud
The pvm progression thing says go whenever you can find a team who will go with you. That is still the case. I got a couple friends and we did a bunch and I got a rapier and hilt which helped a lot for toa pre fang
formal lava
Nice bro! I wasn’t implying that level of carry tho hahaha. I’m almost maxed cb ...
Tbh while you may be able to hold your own skill-wise, missing those gear upgrades basically implies that you're being carried DPS-wise
Not having BGS/DWH/Rigour/blowpipe/zenytes is basically just getting carried if your friends have all of those
Even moreso if they have scythes
formal lava
Was also considering getting a blade too
Blade is useless btw, just use tent whip
If you already have it that's great but don't do 400 kc just for ToB
worldly sigil
Getting carried in tob is fine though cuz ur DPS basically never matters
Ur purple chance vs scythes is basically always the same
formal lava
Yeah if your friends have scythes then just accept that ur getting carried regardless
But if ur friends are like a team of irons with whips DWH BGS etc.
Then idk I mean ur getting carried and u really don't have to be
Also if 2 ppl wipe and there's no scythes it's way more annoying
supple monolith
Not having BGS/DWH/Rigour/blowpipe/zenytes is basically just getting carried if ...
That’s basically what I was asking, maybe I just worded it horribly. I’ll get all those upgrades before starting then. I appreciate the advice.
eager eagle
Blade is useless btw, just use tent whip
I took it as him meaning a swift blade
formal lava
Ah hm
Swift blade is good haha thought they meant blade of saeldor
supple monolith
Ah hm
Swift blade is good haha thought they meant blade of saeldor
Swift blade or tent?
formal lava
You would take both
supple monolith
Ok that’s what I thought
formal lava
I just meant blade of saeldor is useless in my comments above
supple monolith
The blade of saeldor would be better than tent right? I’m assuming you mean it’s not worth the time?
supple monolith
I see
formal lava
Doesn't do much for you, and certainly not worth 60 hours of grinding CG for
formal lava
While you go grind 99 Slayer for all of the other items you'll prob get 20+ whips
I think I'm at 32 or something
worldly sigil
Doesn't do much for you, and certainly not worth 60 hours of grinding CG for
0 time if u go on rate for blade and pet 
supple monolith
😏
worldly sigil
I also only have like 5 whips going for 99 slayer lol
supple monolith
Yeah but ur really unlucky I think
worldly sigil
Probably
formal lava
I just need one kraken tentacle right and I’d be done with kraken?
Yes
formal lava
I also only have like 5 whips going for 99 slayer lol
Depends on how you did slayer
I did slaughter-barrage abbys from 85-99 and I also did Konar legit so I did a lot of abbys there
I did most of my Slayer bossing after 99
worldly sigil
I mega spooned heart so abbies were low prio for me so that makes sense lol
Extended torm camp
Did some sire and then blocked around 97
But I also spooned blade so whips literally dead content
olive anchor
If you can get bp dragon darts it's insanely good with void on a 0 def maiden and xarp :)
That's assuming anguish aswell
lavish gorge
Don't even need ddarts for it to be good
supple monolith
If you can get bp dragon darts it's insanely good with void on a 0 def maiden an...
That’s the plan I’m just not feeling too great about my rng at zulrah based on experiences with my main lmao
rustic parrot
Go tob, have fun that’s what the games suppose be for 😀 When your done having fun get back to the grind of gear progression
shut current
On a related note I'm basically banned from taking freeze roles without augury right?
blissful cargo
On a related note I'm basically banned from taking freeze roles without augury r...
Likely, in almost all discs that do some sort of tob grouping. I did learn how to freeze pre augury, and it's possible in void with boot take offs + book of darkness
I was potting/learning with friends, so it didn't matter as much
I wouldn't recommend it though, since it reduces space for supplies, which can be rough when you're learning
shut current
I'm pretty fluent in tob, just a poor iron with no cox scrolls yet.
Just not familiar with freeze thresholds pre augury
Wiki doesn't say anything about mystic might I think
blissful cargo
Ah, you can use the DPS calc and check the hit chance in your gear with mystic might
Should be 100%
torn reef
If you got mates sending, I’d send asap.
An early avernic would be sick - a sang great but maybe problematic.
lavish gorge
Rigour is really more important than chally
worldly sigil
Rigour will speed up the raids way more since bp DPS on maiden and xarpus is way better than whip but it won't affect ur purple chance at all
Vs scythes
But then again neither will any of the other stuff
Yes sir
mossy talon
Thanks for the advice I'll remember that I don't know shit and not answer any questions in the future
gilded trellis
polar zenith
I wouldn’t wait on optimal Ironman gear if you already know how to tob from your main and have buddies that want you to come
If you’re running with mains with scythes and you don’t have one you’re going to get the exact same amount of mvp rooms whether you’re leeching with a d scim or have all spec weapons and blowpipe, and that amount is 0
quick linden
I think helping to speed up the raid is good
ivory current
Got a source on that
worldly sigil
More raids per hour = more purples per hour makes sense to me 
mighty hull
not endgame iron but alot of main experince
scy just not as useful and its like the only decent item really
tbow/shadow help each other in their raids alot to and are just more versatile
not to mention ur passively working on good secondary items (not justicar) ances claws augury rigour buckler fang lb masori ward etc
lavish gorge
avernic is really good though
supple monolith
avernic is really good though
Late question but would I even have a chance getting an avernic if the rest of the team is rocking scythes? Not sure how much mvp affects drop rate, but if my chances of getting a purple are like 1% then maybe it isn’t worth it
lavish gorge
your purple chance will still be good with scythes
worse than the people getting mvp points but still solid
tob is the most friendly raid towards leechers
supple monolith
Appreciate u
lavish gorge
faint crypt
I love you jack
rare shoal
love you jack
supple monolith
Love you jack
eager eagle
I wouldn’t wait on optimal Ironman gear if you already know how to tob from your...
eh not necessarily true, on the off chance of 0 hammer sotes, you win that room (assuming fang)
eager eagle
that's why I said not necessarily, becomes 0 chance to possible
polar zenith
eh not necessarily true, on the off chance of 0 hammer sotes, you win that room ...
If you really galaxy brain, that makes leeching even stronger if you don’t bring in your own hammer 
eager eagle
seems more likely you mvp maiden or xarpus
You're never mvping maiden unless you go with bozo teams. ranger is always getting crabs bc of stack and you're not gonna out dps the ZCBs or just pure dps from scythe
eager eagle
If you really galaxy brain, that makes leeching even stronger if you don’t bring...
i mean you're not gonna get on a team
polar zenith
I think the op of this thread is asking the merits of sending early tobs with buddies who want to take him whipping with regular trident and no def spec
So fang probably is an upgrade to his setup to go along with the tent at that point
lavish gorge
You're never mvping maiden unless you go with bozo teams. ranger is always getti...
If you're stacking 50s and 70s sure
Not everyone does that though
Especially if it's a trio
worldly sigil
You're never mvping maiden unless you go with bozo teams. ranger is always getti...
just run with iron teams and u never have to worry about those
eager eagle
Especially if it's a trio
I mean even in a trio your range should be chinning
lavish gorge
wdr disease i fear
olive anchor
yeee...
eager eagle
i've always been told don't chin unless stacking
chins still do more damage than barrage unless this changed
lavish gorge
that depends on your gear setup exactly
olive anchor
if you chin in trio you either chin early to kill crabs or late but by then old crabs leaked
and if you do it early you cant scythe n1 and 2
and then you let s1 leak aswell
its just bad
lavish gorge
i was envisioning chinning to finish stack, not stacking 50 70 at all
i've seen it in wdr before
probably just have someone else deal with s1
olive anchor
kind of no point and you're just putting urself offtick at that point which is rly bad for trio
lavish gorge
and chin after hitting n1 n2
i agree
i think that's the situation being presented though
olive anchor
honestly just dont do it, if you rly wanna help clear clump just take a dinhs
lavish gorge
yea
devout nest
trio range chin is wild im a shitter and I know that isnt a thing
lavish gorge
the reason people do this is because wdr's experienced channel required black chins for maiden but did not require stacking
so rangers just thought they were to chin the stack and that it's good
devout nest
do you get gutted irl if u bank the chins when they say no stacking?
eager eagle
buddy I haven't touched wdr in like 5 years l0l
devout nest
I brought chins in a wdr yesterday after asking if we were stacking and they said yes
eager eagle
you fuck your nylos if you dont bring chins regardless
devout nest
after I asked why we didn't stack and they said what we stacked n234 and s234
nearly broke me
devout nest
ye chins for nylo always good but if ur not stacking I was always under the assumption I'm better off tbowing boss than chinning just 1 spawn
unless tossing 2-3 chins at just 70s is good sometimes or something
devout nest
I usually nfrz to avoid being asked to bust out chins
lavish gorge
watch your language
devout nest
yesterday they asked me to and said we're stacking and proceeded to not stack or skip 30s
sorry
lavish gorge
nfrz isn't a real thing
devout nest
mfrz = nfrz right
lavish gorge
yeah
lavish gorge
you're misunderstanding the question
eager eagle
doesnt matter who freezes n but yeah mfrz used to always n
just whoever is north catch 1234
lavish gorge
yeah we were just referring to the role itself
err i was at least
this is something that gets preached in here somewhat frequently so i assumed abel knew the rest of the story
devout nest
Jack yesterday a group had me bring 15 chins and didn't barrage clump a 2nd time and didn't want to stack
they expected me as rdps to just clear it
eager eagle
am new to iron anyways
devout nest
am I wrong in thinking that's incorrect
eager eagle
there is no such thing as rdps
there's range, and then there's the niche range frz role that isn't used anymore
devout nest
idk every1 types rdps so that's what I type
lavish gorge
am I wrong in thinking that's incorrect
yeah telling an iron to do that is psycho
eager eagle
it's because they're terrorists that they type rdps
lavish gorge
it is hard when all the random lft channels use old terms
cause you get used to them
olive anchor
if you type nfrz ur also a terrorist
devout nest
I type nfrz 🙂
ill try to adapt to regular words
I just copy what ppl type in standard channel bc that's where I've done my last 30 raids
lavish gorge
yea i mean if you're using those channels you have to speak their language
but also get out of those channels asap lol
eager eagle
if you type nfrz ur also a terrorist
gl clan friend btw
olive anchor
gl clan friend btw
who tf
devout nest
yeah I mean I don't want to go to advanced and stuff b4 I'm actually consistent bc I do get the occasional melee at p3 etc
im getting decent at 2-2-1 with tent tho
eager eagle
i havent been active in san since neji and piety left l0l
olive anchor
piety is in vintage now i think
lavish gorge
shincord is the only clan i identify under
devout nest
im also not part of any clans or anything to find groups outside of just adding ppl and dming xd
eager eagle
he is yeah
lavish gorge
🗣️
supple monolith
So fang probably is an upgrade to his setup to go along with the tent at that po...
so fang over tentacle unless i have dwh?
polar zenith
so fang over tentacle unless i have dwh?
Not anymore after the nerf
Fang is really good at sote on stab because it’s tanky and has a def reduction cap
Even if the hammers hit it will outperform tent I believe
supple monolith
ah i see so youre suggesting i bring both
polar zenith
Ye exactly
supple monolith
would it be overkill to bring swift blade too
polar zenith
Nope I’d def bring that too if you’re meleeing
supple monolith
yup thats the plan
polar zenith
This is all assuming you’re experienced at tob from your main of course, if you think -2 brews will actually kill you then whip is good enough as a catch all wep
supple monolith
no i could def fit all these in
just pulled an occult the other day so im working on upgrading the gear slowly
appreciate all the help ❤️
polar zenith
Huge you got this legend 😘
supple monolith
i think im gonna go for a dwh then send
polar zenith
I skipped magic fang with an early sang so hopefully you have similar fortune once you get started
rustic parrot
I mean even in a trio your range should be chinning
You never chin maiden in trios, nylos only