Gear Progression Chart

[tacit crow]

I'm getting more and more convinced that the Alluneve account is an AI chatbot

[polar void]

Will he beat the allegations??

[upper pike]

leave your dead internet theory out of here.

[polar void]

SMACKDOWN

[upper pike]

i wish i was a bot, bots don't care about rng and just keep grinding until the end-condition is satisfied

2023-05-05 15:03

[chilly ruin]

no need for this, alluneve has been around a while and i recognise them from elsewhere

[upper pike]

i just have tism.

i should make a osrs version of that image.

[chilly cove]

the odds of you only receiving 3 armour seeds or less at 1375 kc are about 1/283 million

[polar void]

So you're saying it's possible

[tacit crow]

Dude casually pulls up with the dryest log in osrs history suspiciously 5 minutes after being accused

[upper pike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ko3TdPy0TU

[polar void]

Well tbf how else would they show they're telling the truth

[full panther]

Love this video so much

[upper pike]

matt was recently a speaker in a conference i was at in london

[full panther]

I get what u saying linkin it too. Astrononomically unlikely shit happens all the time

[tacit crow]

I don't believe so chatbot.

[upper pike]

well... missing a coinflip 40x is a lot more likely than not getting a 1/50. gotta remember how the cg table is structured right?

[polar void]

If the Internet is dead, then so am I

[noble shell]

runescape3

[upper pike]

if i die i'd either want my brain to be uploaded to the dead internet so i can keep on meming and/or be buried in a unmarked grave with a tree preferably a fruit tree be planted on top of me, so my memory and essence would be gone, but the nutrients of the decaying corpse that would be my human body would create what might someday become a forest and create joy for the generations after me, because a traditional gravestone is absolutely depressing and i'd much rather have a fun forrest where kids play than a cemetary full of stones with names of people no one cares about anymore.

wrong dead internet theory?

[karmic fossil]

the lala works so well with this 🔥

[noble shell]

if i die i'd either want my brain to be uploaded to the dead internet so i can keep on meming and/or be buried in a unmarked grave with a tree preferably a fruit tree be planted on top of me, so my memory and essence would be gone, but the nutrients of the decaying corpse that would be my human body would create what might someday become a forest and create joy for the generations after me, because a traditional gravestone is absolutely depressing and i'd much rather have a fun forrest where kids play than a cemetary full of stones with names of people no one cares about anymore.

Noy rlly sure what this has to do with gear progression though haha

[daring night]

if i die i want a bot to be uploaded to the ironscape discord that shills eclipse moon 24/7

[fossil flame]

agree with what alot others said addy dart dps is not great-maybe for some tasks early (shamans) it might be good but (melee xp is good) the only big value imo is its probaly better then atlatl everywhere

[upper pike]

atlatl earlier/easier to obtain.

it's a dead on arrival weapon for most, especially at only +6 str bonus

[daring night]

addy toxic blowpipe isn't even better than atatl everywhere so i don't see why rosewood blowpipe would be

the new blowpipes will only be used for tagging enemies basically

[fossil flame]

maybe not but id bet on addy bp over atlatl still in most situations

[indigo hollow]

What the fuck lmao

That is unbelievable

[daring night]

it depends on your gear and stats, but anything with like 100 or more def the atlatl would be better

[upper pike]

especially with the full atlatl outfit

atlatl is pretty good

[chilly ruin]

[fossil flame]

ive never calced but id imagine addy dart bp is better for inferno as well and that has good mix of defence

[daring night]

ofc ur not considering blowpipe outside of low def situations anyways

its comparing apples to oranges really

[fossil flame]

oh is it that bad nvm then lol

i remember hearing that but at same time wiki put stats as bp

[upper pike]

so what's in the progression chart from sailing anyways?
better food and combofood? something something angler replacement? and less rooftop agility for extended stams? and for the crazy people making cannonballs a better furnace to do so?

[daring night]

i have no clue why they made the new blowpipes so bad

[upper pike]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/sailing---resources--skilling-activities-poll?oldschool=1

[daring night]

even if rosewood were +10 ranged str it still would not be meta

[chilly ruin]

i fixed it earlier today. think it was just copy paste from tbp error

[upper pike]

even at 20 ranged str it would not be meta

cuz only up to addy

[daring night]

well, it'd at least be a viable alternative in certain cases at 20

[fossil flame]

ye thats bad enough for atlatl to prob win all the time

[upper pike]

mains would have cried their eyes out and would bitch and moan if the new stuff would devalue anything of their old stuff. that's why the only new sailing items in "meta" are just new consumables

change my mind

[daring night]

i think jagex has been pretty good at making stuff that is at least almost good enough in the past

[upper pike]

i'd recon they were afraid of ANYTHING failing the poll

[tacit crow]

I don't think it will ever get there. But if power creep gets us to the point that rosewood + addy BP 1 shots baba boulders at higher scales. That would be pretty cool to save scales at TOA for swarming and baba boulders.

[fossil flame]

theres alot of ppl that like to rush toa at very least ye could be good for swarming in progression if u like toa rush

and tagging stuff prob worth the pickup for that

[upper pike]

even a camphor blowpipe is good for tagging stuff

[fossil flame]

ye exactly

still trash compared to bp for monkey puzzle but early game its nice

[upper pike]

cuz the new pipes do get extra "range" on the darts right

[fossil flame]

basically ye if ur using it to deal dps in anyway its probaly really bad

[craggy granite]

How does the new stab weapon compare to hasta?

[fossil flame]

I did not look into it much maybe someone else here knows think its still worse but not by much

[chilly ruin]

ive heard that it is better than black keris in toa

i should check that

[frozen olive]

I'm checking rn and that's a no

[upper pike]

back keris?

[frozen olive]

worse than hasta so far

and black gem should be better

assuming 350

[chilly ruin]

did they change the proposed stats at all

[frozen olive]

I'm going off of [[belle's folly]]

[last echo]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Belle's_folly

[chilly ruin]

yeah thats the same as what i can see in the blogpost

[daring night]

To play devil's advocate on the rosewood blowpipe, is there any chance the spec has a niche?

Let's say it's somewhere where you are already near 100% accuracy so the 20% accuracy loss doesn't matter. Your base damage is pretty bad, but it's basically rolling 220% of your max hit for 25% spec. Kind of like a ranged DDS

[frozen olive]

looks worse on baba and akkha by ~.2 dps

but I think ppl bowfa baba early now

it was always close either way

[hybrid blaze]

Nah

[daring night]

actually a better comparison is to dragon knives not to dds

[tacit crow]

It could have a niche for doom honestly. If the spec DPS outperforms scobo there.

100% accurate on car phase makes the accuracy decrease not matter

[tacit crow]

Might be good for doom since current progression has you get toxic blowpipe after eye from doom

But id guess only using as a spec weapon specifically on car phase you dump specs. As scobo should defintiely outperform addy darts rosewood base dps

[frozen olive]

is it even better than scoboing lol

[tacit crow]

Only the spec has a chance to beat scobo.

[chilly ruin]

https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=TaskMitreJade same outcome for me. i wonder if ppl forgot its 5 tick

[frozen olive]

only thing its close to is hasta, black keris should hard outperform lol

[chilly ruin]

given you have to pay 100 pts for dura/steve to assign the task and its worse than other options i dont see this being relevant unless youre gwd allergic

[frozen olive]

I do think it's funny they've added 2 weapons to the game for midgame players and both lose to the 4 hour grind from game release 😭

[chilly ruin]

it feels like they realllly want to cater to people who dont want to do gwd

[frozen olive]

I know a few jmods that hate the content so that adds up

[daring night]

im pretty sure its superior to d knives at car phase (i assume no offhand)

[hybrid blaze]

I think it's more to give early game players a sense of progress

[chilly ruin]

feels a bit stuck in old mindset of gwd should be group content, or something

perhaps so

i think when i was new to ironman/contemplating ironman this stuff would definitely have successfully baited me

[quiet schooner]

Delaying inferno for 0 reason is pretty much trolling

[frozen olive]

d knives spec with no offhand are higher dps than blowpipe spec with dragon darts

w/o spec assuming amethyst arrows and darts rosewood with currently proposed stats loses to just scobo on car

[tacit crow]

Its gonna just be used a spec weapon at doom, wouldn't bother comparing its base dps.

[frozen olive]

yeah if you don't have knives/bp, they just said it was better than knives so I checked lol

[tacit crow]

Majority of people won't if following progression guide

[frozen olive]

wyrms!

[polar void]

I'm assuming gryph weapon won't be on prog list

But with zammy spear not being needed with lance disappearing, maybe it is justified pre ToA?

[chilly ruin]

you still want z hasta for other things, and it is worse than z hasta for toa

its also a task only boss you either have to do with a low level slayer master or use points to unlock

[indigo hollow]

Hasta’s such a short grind anyway

[polar void]

Oh that's lame, word

[daring night]

toxic blowpipe spec?

idk what point you're trying to make there

[daring night]

people use knives as a mainhand at car phase? lmao

i feel like you're only correct if you strawman the fuck out of what i said

i was obviously comparing spec weapons because d knife is a spec wep

[polar void]

You use knives spec yea not the normal attack

[dusty widget]

If addy darts bad

Then wats best way to get rune darts

If no smithing

[polar void]

Level up smithing

[tacit crow]

You just don't

[polar void]

[tacit crow]

Or if you have mining for amethyst and have afk time for that.

But not worth actively going for

[dusty widget]

Dam 89 smithing

[polar void]

88 Smith with dwarf stout boost, gold ore smith is like 250k+ XP an hour

Not unreasonable

[dusty widget]

Yh

[polar void]

You'll need it for sailing too even more incentive to get high smith

[dusty widget]

Im guessing buying the gold ore?

[polar void]

Yes

[dusty widget]

How long wud it take take buy 59k gold ore rip

[hybrid blaze]

7.5 hours if you bank it, but its better to immediately smelt it

[dusty widget]

Damm

How many gold can u make roughly phr

[rustic granite]

Lots

[hybrid blaze]

uim gold smelting is around 270k-320k xp/hr depending on effort

[dusty widget]

Wiki says 5600 to 6600

Wud buying and smelting straight away reduce time but decent amount Im guessing?

[hybrid blaze]

yes

I think those are wiki rates for banked ore

I would not rely on the wiki for any rates

[dusty widget]

And also

So buy gold

Smith

Then bank gold and repeat?

[rustic granite]

Yes with ice and goldsmith gloves

[ionic walrus]

you could even just drop the gold bars after you smith them if you're so inclined

[rustic granite]

Yeah if you're a NERD!!!!

[dusty widget]

Wat can u rly do with gold bars

Sell them to any shops?

[chilly ruin]

alch them if not 99 mage

mostly ignore them

[dusky fog]

Gotta disagree here. Yes blowpipe helps trivialize inferno, especially on healers but it’s definitely not a hard requirement

[rustic granite]

I mean nothing is a hard requirement for anything really lol

You could go for Shadow with a yew shortbow

[dusky fog]

His words not mine

He specifically said “cannot skip on it” which just isn’t true for inferno

[tacit crow]

Yama "hard requires" a purging more than blowpipe in inferno. Idk what that guy was on.

[fossil flame]

i feel like this is pretty solved by just using ancients even then its not necessary. though most ppl arent doing colo that early like pre bp whatnot bloodfury/sgs seem like very extra items to get just for colo

bp seems like fair game though to wait for

but like if im not waiting on sgs idk if bp would be much diffrent

[round knot]

btw what are the usual recommended items to have for first time colosseum? i have a few infernos under my belt but never set foot in colo

bp, venator bow?

[fossil flame]

vbow is very optional imo for first quiver

I wouldint delay 1kc just cuz of vbow its mostly frem item imo when learning

[chilly ruin]

the pins in #fortis-colosseum are good imo

ayak fine instead of trident etc

[round knot]

i am completely clueless about colosseum i know nothing about it other than u melee the last boss

[fossil flame]

theres alot of things u can do to make up lack of sgs which alot of irons will experince

bp spec ancients bloodfury are common approaches imo

[fossil flame]

^u can grind sgs idt there is any shame in that

its really strong

[chilly ruin]

yeah its really good there. i'd get it for blessing a quiver at least. even tho its never strictly required

[fossil flame]

u get to work on acb to which is nice for zcb

and gwd kph dont increase to much by waiting for better gear

but for 1kc i would consider doing it pre sgs

[frozen olive]

Correct and d knives is a better spec than toxic blowpipe with dragon darts

Ppl pipe cuz it's heals and is far more accessible for irons

[daring night]

yeah im just confused why you even brought that up in response bc it was irrelevant

[frozen olive]

You said it was superior to rosewood over d knives which is why I responded

[daring night]

I was saying rosewood with addy darts is a better spec than d knives

which i'm pretty sure is true, at least in most gear setups

for doom car phase specifically

[frozen olive]

And d knives spec is far superior correct

[daring night]

d knives spec is not far supeior to rosewood spec

im comparing the two specs

[frozen olive]

Yes, it's better than even ddart bp

Assuming you only care about dps

[daring night]

Yes, rosewood spec is very good dps for car phase

[frozen olive]

I'm not getting that

[tacit crow]

I see it being more of an option as a spec weapon only when you don't have blowpipe.

I haven't done any calcs to compare to d knife specs but the way it's described it should be very good dps

So if the levels make sense at your point of doing doom pre BP, you pick it up to use.

[frozen olive]

Right, I agree, but if you happen to have d knives that's much better lol

[tacit crow]

Let's be real the vast majority of people won't.

And even if they got 1 drop from wyrms, they'll run out pretty quick.

[frozen olive]

Right I'm with you

I just don't know why he keeps spreading misinformation

[tacit crow]

Got a calc? @daring night

What dps figure did you come up with from addy darts rosewood specs.

On 100% accuracy

[frozen olive]

It's an easy one, addy dart and rosewood is 23 ranged str
Gets 10% extra dmg per, so call it 26

D knives is 30

[tacit crow]

Do you use d knives quicker?

[frozen olive]

They both throw 2 projectiles in 2t

[tacit crow]

gotcha

[craggy granite]

I think rosewood spec does 20% extra dmg

From what I read?

or is it just shoot two

And I’m confusing the accuracy decrease

[old grove]

i took a break of a few months, why is arkan blade so early? best early stab weapon? what is the reason

[hybrid blaze]

its basically free, its a really good spec weapon, and has niche uses as a mainhand stab weapon

[upper pike]

it's like a d scimi but with a usable stab option (+8 stab -> +55 stab) && it's spec is a pretty good spec compared to what you can get that at that point in the game. it doing a your hit x1.5 + 10 damage, outclassing the humble dragon dagger, the dragon longsword,.... and itself only really being outclassed once you get mid-game tier special attack weapons like [[burning claws]] or a [[voidwaker]]

[last echo]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Korasi's_sword

[hollow cobalt]

There's very few places where stab actually matters early

but it's free so might as well get it

[south fern]

Like green dragons ^

[upper pike]

well.... looking over how the chart currently goes, it's the only damage-oriented special attack weapon before voidwaker & burning claws.

[hollow cobalt]

Yes it's an ok "budget" spec weapon

but the "stab" part is very overrated

[south fern]

Depending on the content dds is sometimes better.

[upper pike]

it sits post-piety grind, so green dragons tend to be forgotten.

i do see the zombie axe is gone from the chart, so i guess it takes the place of that-ish?

[hollow cobalt]

what

[midnight dome]

Idt zaxe was ever on the chart

[south fern]

Oh well that should be before piety, it's an easy quest and it surely helps killing 1k+ green drags

[midnight dome]

It was always a slight timeloss overall if barraging

[upper pike]

the stat requirements on it are pretty high compared to the grind you do earlier with getting piety, i do wonder what people do use for piety

[hollow cobalt]

dscim

[upper pike]

just slash?

[hollow cobalt]

yes

[midnight dome]

Green drags are pretty low def

[hollow cobalt]

Like i said, stab isn't really actually relevant anywhere pre-toa

[south fern]

Zaxe sits in the spot of are you rushing cg to hasta or you intend to explore the game more. Dscim is actually better against defenseless enemies

[hollow cobalt]

zaxe/warped sceptre etc are very much "for fun pvm rush items"

[south fern]

Warped sceptre is kind of needed for toa

[frail sonnet]

zaxe is huge for colo tho

got my blessed quiver all through zaxe runs

[hollow cobalt]

Don't think many people are blessing quiver pre-whip

[upper pike]

actually... thinking of the super-earlygame stuff. why not take advantage of the elemental weaknesses? https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=AmmoniumWardensMind

[frail sonnet]

mleee isnt potted

[upper pike]

that's because at those extremely low levels, you might not have constant super set running

[hollow cobalt]

what

[chilly ruin]

you need the defence xp

then click pot again

[tacit crow]

Blessing quiver with a zombie axe is certainly a take. Objectively slow and minimal benefit from doing so. May as well wait for better gear unless you just are interested in the challenge

[frail sonnet]

at absolute worst u can always buy the bad pots from warriors guild

and they are still good enough to beat magic

[hollow cobalt]

i mean they used stats so bad you cant even get to guild

[south fern]

You should 100% have pots running here

[frail sonnet]

getting a better melee weapon doesnt really speed it up other than fang for waves, which can be a long grind

[hollow cobalt]

and a defender..

[frail sonnet]

its only sol thats a bit better

[chilly ruin]

you can also use a defender there and pray mage

and a berserker ring

[upper pike]

berserker ring in wildy?

[south fern]

And free and defense xp to actually use piety. Not even close

[hollow cobalt]

yeah i just don't think many people at all are gonna spam 20 kcs or whatever pre-whip lol

[chilly ruin]

its a better protected item than the obsidian cape certainly

[frail sonnet]

its fun af tho

[upper pike]

doesn't most defence xp in the early-midgame come from magic anyways? defencive autocast?

[hollow cobalt]

ok but saying "it's huge for x" when x is a thing that only a few people are doing for fun is... wonky

[south fern]

3+1 and if you get pk'ed once on your grind, you are in the 1% of unlucky players

[frail sonnet]

it is technically true though 👍

[upper pike]

https://tenor.com/bmUHl.gif

[chilly ruin]

maybe it does for some people, but not according to the progression this assumes

[hollow cobalt]

what autocasting are you doing pre-barrage slayer?

rex

[tacit crow]

To me it sounds like you would be done it with like 80 melees. Having better gear and 20 more.melee levels would certainly speed up blessing a lot

[upper pike]

well.... my mind went in the direction of abusing the new-ish elemental weaknesses at low level with chaos bolt spells with chaos gaunlets

[hollow cobalt]

no one does that

[frail sonnet]

I did my first quiver with horrible gear and stats yeah but most of the blessing kcs were with 99s and mostly proper gear

bowfa vbow and such

[chilly ruin]

i fear this is just rd sharing accomplishments and not meaningful addition to the guide

[south fern]

You only use offensive spells for quests and rex

[frail sonnet]

yeah theres no reason for blessed quiver to go anywhere but retirement home section

[upper pike]

i was just brainstorming, "no one used to do that" is correct, because those didn't exist until recently and most people are way past that stage of ironman now,

[frail sonnet]

@chilly ruin when tombs

[chilly ruin]

that sounds like a lot of wasted time really, to chaos spell frost crabs or whatever for defence xp

[upper pike]

well... not frost crabs, but stuff like green dragons, early slayer,...

[south fern]

+money and no melee xp. Mage is best as utility training

[chilly ruin]

it is assumed you are lamping slayer to 58 nearly entirely

[upper pike]

any lamp i get goes into herblore, but that's just me.

[south fern]

Early training for both skills is ass, slayer is just slower, but more fun

[hybrid blaze]

It's not actually good at green dragons

[hybrid blaze]

I do not think it should be

[south fern]

Oh dscim actually comes on top in dps calcs?

[hybrid blaze]

No, this is optional

[hybrid blaze]

Nah elemental spells are a joke basically always

[hybrid blaze]

Depends on exact level and boosts

There's also a circular dependency

You need rc for Arkan
You want lavas for rc
You need sotf for daeyalt
You want piety for sotf

If you can tears rc to 50 you can grab arkan early

But idt it's good to actively go for it

[sleek prawn]

if an experienced PVM'er is it then suggested to get cox prayers / raid items earlier than the chart says? Or is the chart still a good guidance for experienced PVM'ers?

[hollow cobalt]

it's not efficient but it's fun

Would do inferno/quiver etc earlier

[sleek prawn]

yeah i got that right after bowfa / zombie axe

[south fern]

The prayers won't help as much at cg as bowfa will at raids imo

[hollow cobalt]

I had fun with 100ish dscim (and eventually zaxe), sceptre, rcb raids but it was not efficient

[chilly ruin]

i tried some for fun and they ended up not very fun from the whiplash of max gear to 0dps

[hollow cobalt]

ok dscim was kinda ass

[chilly ruin]

but i was duoing with a 1 def pure too

[hollow cobalt]

think the first olms i did were like 23-25 min

[sleek prawn]

it was just more if i should do some of the later grinds earlier on the chart?

[chilly ruin]

i think cape/quiver are mostly where that is relevant

[hollow cobalt]

like what

I think tob earlier is probably better for basically everyone but the chartmaker disagrees

[sleek prawn]

okay , well right now im chilling at bandos, but was thinking if i should go get dex first for example

[south fern]

I think you have a few key items in exact spots, but a lot of it is interchangeable

[chilly ruin]

would you put it like immediately post bp?

[hollow cobalt]

I think most people who have done pvm before will just do raids for fun earlier

[hollow cobalt]

either there or get prayers then pot

idk

[chilly ruin]

i think that reasoning rly does make sense to me

[sleek prawn]

does dex even help that much at bandos?

[south fern]

Not really. But at that stage most upgrades are pretty small

[chilly ruin]

youre still limited by respawn time

[sleek prawn]

This is my gear atm for reference, if anyone has an idea of which later grinds i should do earlier

[south fern]

Yeah budget raids are fun, but you just know there ain't no way to see a purple light

[sleek prawn]

yea exactly

[hollow cobalt]

(I really gotta stop slacking and go gwd) https://i.imgur.com/rfOmerm.png

[sleek prawn]

Thats where i am aswell 😄

im at bandos right now tho

i cba keep reparing blood moon, so kinda want bandos before sending yama (if i get bgs i just leave tho)

[hollow cobalt]

been kinda living at yama but no luck

[sleek prawn]

im GIGA slacking on slayer aswell tho

Whats your loot tracker looking like at yama?

[hollow cobalt]

https://i.imgur.com/RvI6Eu4.png

[sleek prawn]

duos only?

[hollow cobalt]

ye solos are unwise on hc imo

[sleek prawn]

oh you are HC

im kinda considering sending solos simplefly when i start

[hollow cobalt]

did mostly solos on the iron

also went very dry on there

[sleek prawn]

goddamn lol

oathplate is so sick, but yama is actually boring lol

[round knot]

dis me, im probably gonna follow the chart pretty accurately but probably gonna do some duke right when i get emberlight though

[polar void]

Not a particularly great amount of shards either, tough

Brave doing Yama on HC, can be deadly

[daring night]

That is not how you calc dmg

[hollow cobalt]

Got another 80something from boxes

Hoping I don't get to nearly 900 before 2/3 again lol

[sleek prawn]

is it 1/400 for any drop from duos?

[tacit crow]

No its 1/240

assuming 50/50 contribution

[hollow cobalt]

Prob more like 300 for me lol

[sleek prawn]

ohh

[tacit crow]

for any oath piece it would be 1/400

[sleek prawn]

oh yea

then 900 kc with 2/3 isnt bad i assume

[hollow cobalt]

900 shards

Not kc

[sleek prawn]

ohhh

sorry

[hollow cobalt]

1600 kc mostly solos on the other acc

[sleek prawn]

ouch

[tacit crow]

You pretty much expect to be 2/3 with crafting your 3rd piece around 1k KC

Assuming all duos

[sleek prawn]

yeah that sounds fair

[daring night]

@frozen olive At worst, it's going to end up being the same dps. Rosewood addy is theoretically higher but due to the max hit breakpoints it might not end up making a difference in certain gear.

Example:

97 range, potted, rigour, full void and venator ring. Subbing pe treads + dizana's for the +6 rng str from rosewood. Rosewood addy is only 1 less max hit, with the 10% damage increase on spec it will be at least 26, making it better than dragon knives.

In other cases, it might end up being the same max hit, but I can't think of one where rosewood spec is a decrease

You can't just add 10% to the ranged str bonus of addy darts... because that completely ignores everything else that gives you ranged max hits

[patent pollen]

the bottom 2 are specs

[daring night]

ty 🫡

[patent pollen]

gearscape doesn't have picture of the rosewood

but it is using the rosewood

[daring night]

I love how confident you are for a person that's completely incorrect

[frozen olive]

I do love how you carefully construed an example that gives rosewood an additional max and not the d knives and it was still worse
If we're gonna add venator ring why not add buckler? 🙂

[daring night]

can't read

other guy posted a much more realistic setup dumbass

d knives does not give a max hit

[frozen olive]

No he didn't

He's using rigour, the boots and quiver

[daring night]

show me your genius setup where d knives gives a max hit then

want me to remove those three?

[frozen olive]

If we're assuming a higher level setup then yeah it's going to even out, but if we're adding that why not at the buckler?

Sure. I used deadeye and assembler because that's what you have in the chart

[daring night]

Post it

[frozen olive]

Was yesterdays calc I don't have it saved

[daring night]

Massive cope

[indigo hollow]

It’s ok guys it’s just a dps calc

[daring night]

He's accusing me of "spreading misinformation" when he's demonstrably wrong

[desert flume]

Shwax slandering again…. Smh

[indigo hollow]

Shwlander

[frozen olive]

Yeah I didn't think it was this much of a thing lol, it's fine to grab as a spec at that point, it's just not as insane as he's stating that's all

[daring night]

It completely replaces d knives at doom

There is no reason to bring d knives as they are sometimes worse and are way harder to upkeep

[patent pollen]

You would go out of your way to get d knives?

[frozen olive]

Hell no lol

The assumption is you have em ofc

[patent pollen]

Un

Um

That was supposed to sound sarcastic

[frozen olive]

I can't tell around here at this point mb

[hybrid blaze]

I think we all learned a valuable lesson on the importance of friendship today

lets resume tomorrow

[frozen olive]

[desert flume]

!remindme 24 hours

[brisk venture]

Missing argument after the time.

[mellow swift]

Ideally there would be no arguments after the time

[frail sonnet]

thats crazy all shwax does is slander random people in ironscape

[frozen olive]

If that's intentional nyx that's good

[indigo hollow]

Let’s not

[frail sonnet]

might as well set ur RSN to this @frozen olive

[desert flume]

https://tenor.com/view/hull-city-hcafc-hull-football-jarrod-bowen-gif-5558269629895600781

[real yacht]

The longest discussion in the chat are always the most pointless and completely theoretical I love it

[polar void]

My fear is an early oath dupe, I only have legs

As soon as you're 2/3 you know there's a definite finish line

[tacit crow]

Early dupe is just +50 shards. What would you fear that?

[polar void]

Exchanging an 80m coffer for 50 shards is simply a bad trade deal imo, or bonds

[hollow cobalt]

Well a dupe is the same as nothing in that case

Its no worse than just being 1/3 no dupes

[polar void]

Not all fears are rational

I have dupe-o-phobia

[tacit crow]

You'll have tons of dupes for coffer and bonds that don't have actual use. Would rather just get the 50 shards and be done with the boss quicker.

[robust roost]

i will happily trade 160m off the main to kill 100 less shards worth of yama

[hollow cobalt]

i shoulda boosted the shard contracts tbh

[covert bay]

whats stats and gear reccomendations for sotf?

[frozen olive]

70s melees and piety

[hollow cobalt]

id rather use the xp from it to get piety

[frozen olive]

You'd rather use sins of the father tome on prayer over herb?

[midnight dome]

A lot of noobs struggle with the fight pre piety so not the worst idea to get imo

[sterile warren]

if the vampire ring still works you can quickly make one of those

[rustic granite]

dhide is good

60 ranged for red dhide is good since you need 62 for sepulchre anyways

[covert bay]

i have fighter torso, i was thinking fighter torso, mixed hide cape boots and legs

[south fern]

better to grab mage defense over a little strength bonus

[slender crane]

did the 98 agility get removed from the chart?

[loud jasper]

its still implied, the step is now "do Sepulchre as much as you can bare", probably because of the negative reactions people had to 98 agility being here

[slender crane]

where would it be implied at? I cant remember now

[woven nova]

hallowed sepulchre tp crystal image

[dusty widget]

Why is scorching bow significantly after z hasta?

[hollow cobalt]

Why not?

getting hasta early is good

[dusty widget]

I heard scorching bow op for kril

[hollow cobalt]

it's very slightly better than bowfa

[dusty widget]

Ohh

[hollow cobalt]

it's just more chill

but having hasta for all that slayer is good

[dusty widget]

Yh checks out

Thought scobow was signifanctly better than bowfa

And the new stab wep with sailing

Wud hasta just skip that?

[hollow cobalt]

it doesn't look very good

[abstract hinge]

New stab wep kinda trash vs hasta in ToA

[south fern]

also hasta is stab and crush

[chilly ruin]

it scales really well but that early u dont quite have the gear to make the diff that big

[tacit crow]

Yeah full masori helps put at that level above Bofa. But even with, it isn't as big a gap as you'd think when you look at kph cause of the classic GWD effect.

[hybrid blaze]

I think the people advocating scobow over bowfa for kril are thinking of the spec cheese strat, which requires lightbearer

For regular altar door I think scobow is better but a marginal increase in kph as you mentioned, and takes a while longer to get. So I think it's not worth waiting for

[loud jasper]

where is this calc

[abstract hinge]

OSRS wiki

[hollow cobalt]

!dps

[brisk venture]

For calculating dps in osrs there's currently 2 main ways to get accurate dps comparisons.

Bitterkoekje DPS Sheet
Click File and Make a copy

OSRS Wiki DPS Calculator
You can click the share button top right to get a link to save your loadout or use the wikisync runelite plugin to export your gear to the wiki.

[abstract hinge]

Plug in hasta vs the new stab weapon for 350+ toa

[hollow cobalt]

have fun

[abstract hinge]

Big dif

[loud jasper]

yeah I know how to calculate dps I was just wondering if someone posted about it so I dont have to plug everything in

[chilly ruin]

dont think manually changed things export with wiki calc

but its bad, i think ppl who think its good maybe forgot its 5 tick?

[loud jasper]

I was imagining it as a zombie axe but stab

how do I input a custom weapon in the wiki dps calculator?

[indigo hollow]

You’d have to pick an existing weapon with the same attack speed (and preferably of the same class so you have the same attack style choices). Then you can enable manual mode at the bottom of the page and change your overall equipment bonuses to match what they would be with the custom weapon

[chilly ruin]

you can change attack speed, too

[indigo hollow]

Oh right, I forgot that was added

[chilly ruin]

so just not to non integer figures

[loud jasper]

ok I picked a ghrazi rapier and changed it to 5 tick

[indigo hollow]

Yeah that should do it

[frozen olive]

When I plugged it in it was ~.2 dps worse on relevant things than hasta and obv much worse than black gem

[loud jasper]

where do you use bgs in the raid?=

if its 0.2dps worse that seems fine

[frozen olive]

right but why do that rather than getting the 4 hour weapon that also counts as your crush lol

[loud jasper]

presumably because its faster to get

[umbral pasture]

hasta is already very fast to get

[chilly ruin]

not sure about that. its from a task only boss

and -100pts to unlock from duradel/nieve

[umbral pasture]

this is the fundamental problem with trying to skip it lol

you're barely skipping anything

[loud jasper]

how long does hasta take to get?

[umbral pasture]

4 hours as said above, though that doesn't account for time spent learning kril (but you need to learn it at some point cause you're gonna do bandos which is the same method)

[loud jasper]

ok if its 4 hours then skipping it is senseless

[frozen olive]

I'll grant that that doesn't include time to learn

[umbral pasture]

the learning time is not skippable even if you skip hasta anyway, you'll just spend that time learning at bandos instead

[spare holly]

Im a bit but isnt it quite a bit better in terms reducing damage? cause you dont have to wear crystal which is quita shite defencivly no?

havent set foot there yet, but i notice i get blasted at bandos wth crystal

[quiet chasm]

We use bone dagger for 350+ for toa right?

[indigo hollow]

Unless you have fortified masori I doubt you’ll see much of a difference between crystal and god d’hide/karil’s

[hybrid blaze]

you're going infinite on healing at kril, damage taken doesnt matter

[hybrid blaze]

still bgs I think

[spare holly]

really? that much easier than bandos?

[frozen olive]

you go infinite healing there too

benefit of kril minions is on task, but you lose b2p passive food

[hybrid blaze]

no, they're the same. You go infinite at either one

[nocturne ridge]

what on earth are you talkin about

[south fern]

you don't need kandy elite to make a hasta

[nocturne ridge]

definitely. why are those a req for hasta

[south fern]

hiding the evidence

[loud jasper]

guys what are you on about

[nocturne ridge]

you just pay 300k vs 150k thats the diff lol

[hollow cobalt]

[abstract hinge]

My bad I thought we were referencing Arkan blade vs hasta which is a full 1 dps difference. Didn’t realize there was a new stab wep with sailing as well

[umbral pasture]

crystal is fine defensively, it's got better mage and ranged def than blessed dhide and mildly worse melee def

well mage def is identical if not considering helm but ye

[quiet schooner]

If u use rune arrows and crystal they are basically identical

[abstract hinge]

Main advantage is the spec to root him if you mess up 6:0. That said once you get used to the rhythm you rarely mess up, and if you do you can reset him mid kill

[frail sonnet]

what I like the most is that u can comfortably and reclined flick minions mid kill

means u never have to eat during kill and such

[quiet schooner]

Even more reclined to just afk in corner but going out of the way for .3 DPS increase on kril with a scobow is so cope

[tacit crow]

It's definitely best to do it when you go back after hasta (if you choose to get ZGS/SOTD), the burn damage also adds to the DPS may as well take it. But never worth delaying hasta for.

[rustic granite]

This + not having to do the entry method

Whenever you're approaching your KC req to reset the room (depends on CA tier) make sure to build your spec, then once you hit it and kill him, leave the room, re-enter, and just bind+kite

Still not much of a kph increase over just doing the Bowfa entry every reset but much less annoying imo

[abstract hinge]

Interesting, I actually found the entry method much easier to learn than the actual 6:0 cycle. Suppose different parts different people find more challenging

I also didn't have a great grasp of the tick system at that point in time (CG was the only real pvm I had done at that point), so I can see someone with a better understanding of the tick system going in having an easier time getting 6:0 consistency

[rustic granite]

For me it was click accuracy, I also wasn't great at feeling how long a tick was but just reacted to my attack cooldown being ready with attack timer metronome

It's like timing your sinister strike for HOJ/sword spec procs

[tacit crow]

I feel like you get a lot better at entry for the boss you learn door altar on. Honestly don't remember using entry all that much for zammy since I did all the hard part at bandos.

[dusky fog]

Idk what this means but it sounds sweaty and I like it

[karmic fossil]

it's so u maximize the gain from getting an extra attack proc

[round knot]

Skipping hasta sounds just so weird to me like are you never gonna get a lance? Or whats the logic there

Seems like lots of ppl are just scared of gwd

[abstract hinge]

It’s a WoW thing, if you get a wind fury/hoj/sword spec proc (which gives you an extra auto attack), it resets your swing timer. In order to not reset your swing timer when the cd is partially complete, you time abilities that swing your weapon right after your auto attack goes off, hence increasing dps (by not wasting any swing timer cd). He was comparing the timing of that to osrs timing

The rhythm in osrs feels much better imo though (was a nice comparison though)

[rustic granite]

yeah since there's such a thing as perfect in OSRS and there isn't realistically for sinister strike timing

[frozen olive]

The sinister strike timing is easy you just use it turn 1

[hollow cobalt]

Lance just ain't very useful in 2025. Still unclear why it was resdded.

[tacit crow]

Chart creator poisoned by 2+13 Propaganda

[opal patrol]

you only see it if you hide/skip scythe i think

[hollow cobalt]

good compromise

[hollow cobalt]

scy nally etc

[loud jasper]

you do tob before cox, you can use scythe in cox instead of lance

[tacit crow]

Exactly. I'm fairly confident the point/hour increase from 2+13s compared to 3+12s with scythe doesn't make up for the time spent getting lance.

[hollow cobalt]

i mean that you don't need lance for 2+13s apparently

[tacit crow]

Oh lol even better

[noble shell]

RuneScape 3

[round knot]

Ya i know but i feel like its really weird to NEVER get lance

Ah well maybe im too old fashioned

[hollow cobalt]

Get it if you want, but it doesn't seem useful in the current year

[midnight dome]

Scythe oath olm go swoosh

[noble shell]

Runescape3

[upper pike]

Big question: Why is the warped sceptre still on the chart? where exactly is that used?

tagging while barraging? but it doesn't seem worth for that

[hybrid blaze]

toa

potentially dks

[upper pike]

dks is pre-sceptre and ayak lies before most of your toa?

[frail sonnet]

its crazy how I got slandered for suggesting warped sceptre in 2023 but now its part of ladlor chart

[upper pike]

and with the recent toa changes you do not need magic for akkha

going under the assumption you might not solo your toa for ring/thread, it feels optional

[frozen olive]

It's always been optional yes

Ppl just really didn't like grasp toa

[hybrid blaze]

dks is not before sceptre
sceptre is only for the part of toa thats before eye

maybe you're thinking of rex, not dks?

[frozen olive]

It would be an early tribrid layout for em yeah

[upper pike]

you go get seers/archers before toa? i don't really see that

[hybrid blaze]

I dont think this is a good assumption, but play any way you prefer

[hybrid blaze]

The CAs, not the rings

[upper pike]

oh right, ghommals elite before ayak

yeah i see it

[chilly ruin]

skull sceptre toa goes hard

[abstract hinge]

It’s not that warped scepter is great for wardens, it’s that it allows you to camp arc spellbook for thralls and desthcharge that makes it really solid

[chilly ruin]

you can cast undead grasp and still have that

[craggy granite]

lightbearer obviously very good, still doesn't feel must-have enough for me personally to go for it before i get something like eye

[blazing fern]

anyone know how to hide the floor at bloat and verzik post update? sorry if this has been asked before. i just ran my first tob since the update and ground object hider + skybox not working

[forest knot]

tob utilities plugin has the feature for bloat, not verzik tho

i assume blindfold would work for verzik too

[blazing fern]

thank you

on a mish to figure out verzik

confirmed tob utilities plugin works for bloat. ive been spectating randos in 416 to try to figure it out lol

[round knot]

hmm i just started to wonder, since i have shadow, wouldnt it be good to do cox even without scythe or lance?

finding a 2+13 partner and i just shadow olm i dont need either

i feel like im missing something obvious here though

[craggy granite]

Melee probably has better points per hour? But not sure

[tacit crow]

Also shadow/tbow aren't doing much at all (tbow does a little bit, shadow does nothing) for TOB.

[fossil flame]

i think its still good to have either or gona be much harder to get on teams if only role you can do is mage

but if u have friends it doesint really matter ye

[fossil flame]

in 2+x its the same since u are aiming to kill hands at same time and melee doesint rrly bring mage gear to help in most setups

[craggy granite]

That’s neat

[magic gale]

what is the wrath rune part of the progress chart is this just for use of max elemental spell use?

[polar void]

It's for offering

[chilly cove]

no it's primarily for demonic offering

[south fern]

elemental spells are very ignored everywhere

[polar void]

What about fire striking the lesser demon at the 3rd floor of mage tower? Someone forgot the best magic training method

[frozen olive]

Water striking*

Do you even elemental weakness

[round pond]

I may have used earth surge on metal drags in the past...

[frozen olive]

That one is more justifiable with how shit early slayer is

[nocturne ridge]

Any real use for a early masori top without tbow? Completed tds and have DHL so don't need Zammy spear

[hybrid blaze]

corp

[nocturne ridge]

so not really then lol

[polar void]

Corp is real

[nocturne ridge]

yeah i know its used there

i just dont have any reason for corp at my stage

[polar void]

The main uses for masori are tbow or dragon dart ripping shit with BP, if you're not doing either of those it's likely not seeing much of or any use

Oh, also kril farm with scobow if you need hilt/sotd masori is great for

[nocturne ridge]

just need sotd there but even that is a niche item

guess what i really need is a tbow..

[polar void]

It does suck that the armor doesn't really come online without a megarare, but this is mostly only true for irons who have limited dart resource

Amethyst dart BP if you afk'd a bunch is also very good with masori for lots of content

You'd prob want to use calcs at that point

[nocturne ridge]

i do have a DHCB so i wonder if that + masori top is more dps than bowfa at olm

will have to check one day

[indigo hollow]

Almost certainly yes

[polar void]

DHCB with masori and assorted ranged gear almost guaranteed yea

[nocturne ridge]

nice. will have to bring bowfa for rooms then likely

[indigo hollow]

You should calc how much of a difference masori top actually makes. Not sure that’s worth an inventory slot unless it’s a big DPS boost

[hollow cobalt]

Can use it for inferno tasks if you're trying to go fast ig

[nocturne ridge]

Would love to do zuk tasks with tbow one day

See you guys in 400 cox hours though

[chilly ruin]

probably still good with bp

but its a funny swap to bring

[hollow cobalt]

Well really the crystal is the swap for zuk only pretty much

[chilly ruin]

bp would be better on magers?

[fossil flame]

even bp is better on olm bowfa is really not that strong there. 1way dhcb in carmor was better dps when i calced it by like 12% or something

[chilly ruin]

https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=OverchargedSlaveTribal oh even without masori

[hollow cobalt]

Turns out bp is a good weapon

[nocturne ridge]

Turns out masori deserves its spot late on the chart as it gets extremely stronger with tbow

[chilly ruin]

i think maybe im just too used to unpotted no prayer first cape calcs for mobs lol

[quiet schooner]

Nex

[fossil flame]

dhcb at cox is mainplace im planning on using my masori (if i ever get dhcb ) pre tbow

[nocturne ridge]

My first purp at toa and I was/still am super stoked but shocked low little use it has (right now)

Bowfa carries too hard

[chilly ruin]

i used it a lot with venator bow

[indigo hollow]

Scorching bow too

Outside of doom where void is better

[umbral pasture]

why wouldn't you

[austere pecan]

then you dont need bloodbark

[umbral pasture]

why would you get bloodbark when you have ahrims 🤔

[austere pecan]

bloodbark is good because its easier to get than ahrims

but if you already have it

[rustic granite]

you should get echo ahrim's

[upper pike]

defence matters jack shit on magic gear

[umbral pasture]

yeah especially not the microscopic def difference between ahrims and bloodbark lol

you'd rather have the superior magic accuracy from ahrims

[round pond]

Ahrim is also the superior fashion

[rustic granite]

[[echo Ahrim's]]

[last echo]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Echo_ahrim's_robetop

[rustic granite]

I got this set for the legs and used them for under a week before I got full Virtus lol

[midnight dome]

Echo virtus on top

[rustic granite]

been using it yeah

[upper pike]

i only have kits for echo virtus, not for echo ahrims and i'm out of league points. League kits are amazing on higher-end gear cuz it makes it free to reclaim from yo grave

[full panther]

The website has been updated!

Full customization is now available on the Customize page.

The resolver supports items, spells, quests, construction objects, slayer rewards, skills, and prayers.

Many names are case sensitive; use the exact wiki spellings.

Try it here: https://www.ladlorchart.com/#/customize/

A note on dragon hunter lance: It's staying off the chart, and gets added if scythe is hidden, with no plans to change this.

I hope this is a fun one. Do let me know if anything breaks, and any and all questions.

can also share built ones, but the url is extremely long though:

||https://ladlorchart.com/#/customize?data=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-2J4FUIuUCGuiMe1UxjVov0J3XJ-U3RvEDNk7NUvM23KERjYfostlltsq6Pe2Pd+M6iUg6ez0Ot93Lqs+9fagN6gmxHcQYckzMgC056227ZVDRzksHRcHytq4-C0-1jcADqr79M28r7hWnq-mu-51n2KY3AAclY7y3qOlogKwGgSMctrELsPQQD4eCZNsxbOp+4bftBnY1j2m6BgAKoRDA+AA+mRe5flBHarl2cG9ji54Gix3RsZxqDbCOWaYU+lCsOMMTxhRC7UbxK7VnGAGAsCYwTOxKngWGSqRrR-H0RuZ79gS+kQIZ2robJj4Tra4jYPgRCkKppbqWZfFaSe8FblwGAeexXk5EsEE8f5ml-rWQlJohoVYLgEUkGAMn3mOVquZQ6hpIE+iGMYpg+VRpntvFsGJYxwKFQE7ElZ45XGZBcVHrVDHWYhjUYM1HhlTQ2UPuOYiTnaljWHgtj2I4FUSB11VdQJdUBsCbTTde7G2OxrAOE47WxStMFrT1iYiUG23ELtrD7Ydo25bmE22pq7ilV4i3LYeZ2WTpW4AEpooNn1tdFJnlp1f3acFyUDsDiig61I1OTlcn5Sk-gZJs30nb9dGw0lDXY+gklgsdfmnYTQVJVd-Vk5kXxPRjr25IUBR41TBMWUT9UghzRSU1VPOBYJjFXfEBQFCzLls1jRVlBUVS8DU86+SLP40+LG03AzD3lOxKs1MLUPU7ztMSzZBr6wdhvG7L435grpQaAAHsyH5LfjWsWzrgH6+7gim0uvti+tl3W3rpPsUHjt5fLJS6MEWihGY6uVWbosJRdunR0V7Ep2n3Hc2HOdWZHfUx0XYTxy9zv1I0LTtJ04n5O+lHe6X5nh7nW6N80YDsR0XQ9O3Jeaz35cA-DBIAIqENkt2FjMt1SBgddQIvPSTQA7AATHovAaDgYRc5PAXT3DwIAMrH6fNA3AAMhAABufDsYQFzsSY6T8BPWcy7dQrghAcKFyh12wrhPeh874nzPhnLuF8arnRAVuOBD9n5vw-l-H+Gg-7Bwhj9IBqCZ5XXAWhM06McxQLwpQKIMR4g0ESOfQBU9gEz2BAw9iTCWEhxopfDhcMrrcN4fiOuYBfjlEmrQegTAWDsFQJwHg-BPad2Iew0h19Bx0AYMwfaHB2IqIEAA0Omj-rCKjrIvRt1FHICMXwAQdcLiaAfpNUQ4gpAyHkFkVhZjBFaOJnrMQGApA-x8YoUxAiUEWLplHDxoTGDhIUPZde6A66MAwD0FwzAJAYEmkMUYSlkzTFJIgjRATYn8zsiUmYWgHKUn4RpVaVTepgNQpAnCdCQA1KmHUvx0SWl811r00pd4Ww+3McMyuA5Rl1PYmkiR0xpG2kKYpCYtSylewqTE6Zec5mzAaYQiZ3dKl7OElHChnToE0luUAA||

[round pond]

the spoiler is just as long lol

[daring night]

do you just store all the data in the url so there's no need for a database

amazing if true

[inland cosmos]

that is correct

I wonder if you could compress the url more, seems to be static no matter the length you use

[daring night]

you could theoretically compress it to a very high degree, the question is whether it's worth the effort to do so

[inland cosmos]

the maximum length of a chart you can make with this url length is comically large tho

as per my example

[daring night]

best way to get a max cape fs

[rustic granite]

you can do url encoding

[loud jasper]

I will use this plan ty

[loud jasper]

Is there a way to copy the original chart so that it's easy to make small adjustments to it with a custom chart without having to manually input everything? Do you have like the text you would input?

[full panther]

yes!

https://github.com/Madssb/InteractiveGearProg/blob/main/data/logic/sequence.json

[full panther]

how it works is the share button creates an url, and when the page loads, it checks if the url provided some things. stores everything so that another call to my backend doesnt need to be made

[full panther]

lol was hoping it wasn't

[loud jasper]

I delayed sepulchre

[chilly ruin]

this is pretty unusable as a feature if thats how its gotta be done lol

[frozen olive]

bro we already have trouble getting ppl to link their dps calcs now we gotta be like "link your chart" 😭

[full panther]

Ill see what i can do

[hollow cobalt]

Don't think it matters, making a whole custom chart is gonna be pretty niche

[rustic granite]

Custom charts makes perpetuating the myth easier

[daring night]

im gonna make a chart dedicated to moons

[north acorn]

@full panther how much traffic does the chart has?

[full panther]

volume of requests

bandwidth

[north acorn]

I was thinking what if you could do something similar to the wiki's calc

where it returns a shortlink but you'd need a db

and have a job that checks for activity every 15 days or so as maintenance

but first it'd be good to have an estimate of how much traffic do the custom charts have

[full panther]

oh. i dont have metrics on that specifically

[full panther]

I started some work on this 1-2 hours ago! all that remains is setting up some postgreSQL database i think

i might have shorter URLs working by tomorrow

[midnight dome]

Thats not too bad! More than I expected

[loud jasper]

You cant seem to see the text portions like in the original chart in my custom chart, like "86 strength" or my new "82 agility"

are those a separate thing you would need to implement?

[full panther]

Could be a bit buggy

« 99 Firemaking» is what i made work i think

Capitalizing the skill is important maybe

[loud jasper]

doesn't work so idk

[swift pike]

Hey!

Regarding dhl appearing when scythe is hidden: very easy to miss, as you'd need to know you'll be skipping scythe by the time of dhl grind and also wanting to hide it from the chart. I would personally never hide items unless they've become obsolete.

I'd propose adding a visual identicator or write about it in how-to-use-chart. maybe a half/half square with the text about the choice or even a toggle.

Another minor thing: in the FAQ regarding zenytes, amulet of torture is missing from the sentence:

"Melee is used more than range for Slayer, so it is prioritized over Anguish. "

Now "it" is pointing to "melee" instead of torture.

[craggy granite]

What about showing both Scythe & Lance on the same slot, and then when you choose one, it hides the other?

That way it's communicated that you go for whichever one, doesn't matter (technically inefficient to go for Lance, but still)

[full panther]

thanks for the feedback, ill add it to the backlog. The current behavior stays as is

[long burrow]

just out of curiosity, is scythe the fastest megarare? Over shadow

[hollow cobalt]

no

[long burrow]

so its shadow>Scythe>>>>>tbow

[hollow cobalt]

Shadow is like 140ish, bow is like 185 and scy is like 170?

[rustic granite]

Shadow depends on invos obviously but around there yeah, my mental number is 145

Including loot room + banking

[hollow cobalt]

prob add some to toa since you aint gonna be sending 500s with a hasta right?

[rustic granite]

If you add some to COX for the rigour grind I guess lol

[hollow cobalt]

Don't think rigour really increases your pph that much

[rustic granite]

No but the gear you'll have is very different, especially if you're saving TBow to be your last megarare

Trident DHL vs Shadow Scythe

[hollow cobalt]

still in near-max mage eye. should be fine enough

don't need to melee at all for the scaled shit

[rustic granite]

Eye before rigour is silly imo

[hollow cobalt]

that's whats on the prog

[rustic granite]

I know

[hollow cobalt]

but yes

[rustic granite]

Eye will never increase your rigour per raid rate and saves like a couple hours of Olm-ing

Rigour can let you push deeper and get to grub phase sooner

There's basically no skill cap at Doom, if you're not doing 6 hour delves more power will always help you

[full panther]

yall saying ayak doesnt impact rigour aquisition, but rigour impacts ayak aquisition?

[hollow cobalt]

don't think that's true

[full panther]

ok, then i misunderstood somthing

[rustic granite]

Ayak speeds up rigour because you get faster clear times, rigour speeds up Ayak because you get faster clear times and higher success rates

[frail sonnet]

I will say as a rigourless doomer that literally every run I get at least once instance of rigour diff being enough to skip something very important

cuz im off like less than 10 HP from killing it

so its tremendously more important than just TTK difference

but idk if id change it in the chart cuz sending cox without ayak also feels really bad

[rustic granite]

Doomed if you do, doomed if you don't

[hollow cobalt]

Don't think that even comes close to the... 35% dps increase

more if you get gloves first

[vague tusk]

i mean you only do mage hand for part of olm, and you only do olm for part of cox - eye is wayyy less than 35% timesave per cox kc

[hollow cobalt]

you will mage all of olm

[craggy granite]

Something something, turns out my magic staff may have a use

[frail sonnet]

this 2+13 slop ruined ladlor chart

[rustic granite]

If you don't have gauntlets can you even do 2+13

I thought you had to have closeish dps

[craggy granite]

Isn’t it that you’re on melee

[loud jasper]

but you arent getting rigour with 2+13, why was 2+13 brough up?

[rustic granite]

I thought 2+13 was the reason we're getting eye before rigour

[craggy granite]

tbh I was gonna do 3 + w/e cox raids for rigour + augury

[loud jasper]

like you mage olm in 2+13 with eye? I thought you needed shadow for that

[rustic granite]

Who's on first

[fossil flame]

olm headphase is main brickwall (range gear) eye is pretty close dps

[loud jasper]

so you use eye instead of range for the headphase? Based on the chart you dont have a dhl or shadow yet for the hands

[hollow cobalt]

Why not?

[fossil flame]

no im just saying with the way meathod works u barely take any dmg pre headphase so u could even do it with whip/trident and it not make raid any harder just longer

[hollow cobalt]

https://i.imgur.com/1YzM7pw.png

[fossil flame]

im sure u can do 3+12s as well as mage ppl just like shadow but ayak is pretty good

[dusky tartan]

Is it most optimal to just skip trident for eye now a days?

[lunar lodge]

Yes

[dusky tartan]

feels bad i am 3.3k delves 200 deep with 4 boots 3 cloth and 4 pets, no eye.

[tacit crow]

Send more deep

[dusky tartan]

I just use karambwans and anti poisons. Been doing 8/9 consistent now since like 1500 ish delves. Hard to go any deeper than that without blow pipe, extended antivenom + , and brews.

my deepest with this setup is wave 11.

[hollow cobalt]

^

and obtain brews

[frozen olive]

Seen scobo deadeyers in here with no pipe hitting 20s

[dusky tartan]

yeah if I had brews and extended antivenom + I believe I could probably hit 20 considering I've finished 11 a few times with 2 anti poisons 3 prayer pots and 2 range pots using rune arrows scobow and karambwans

i have high enough herb to make brews I just blew through them all when learning.

and cba to stop grinding doom as I am 1 drop away from greenlog so I just maintain with the ranarr seed drops and buy antipoisons from the tai bwo wannai shop and I afk cook karambwans before bed

afk fish befrore bed and cook when i run out**

[daring night]

t bow is 185 hours?

im definitely doing cox wrong

[tacit crow]

That's a really aggressive PPH.

[hollow cobalt]

That's the one all the 2+13 enthusiasts claim

[tacit crow]

160k? For that 185 figure? Feel like 200 hours is more reasonable even considering 2+13s

So it goes down to 150k pph

[hollow cobalt]

That's what they claim

[tacit crow]

Are there any real ironmen without tbows getting those rates consistently?

[fossil flame]

i doubt it i think thats like extreme end and idt those ppl factor scouting time either just the raid tiself

[hollow cobalt]

Can scout during the raid

[fossil flame]

ahh ye i didint think of that

if scouting is assumed free idt its impossible

u can do sub 1hour raids consistently 2+13s without tbows but it requires a rrly good alter

theres way better ppl but this was roughly what i was getting in 2+13 me having bowfa/1dhcb

in general i think avg player prob gona get 10-20% worse then max effiency rate with most things

[tacit crow]

Hoe many stams do you use in a 2+13?

[fossil flame]

u can use vilevigour to use none but i prefer just using stams

its only around 2 stams per raid

[tacit crow]

Gotcha

[frail sonnet]

I remember tbow 333h of efficient cox tf happened

[rustic granite]

it used to be 133 hours of raid reloading now it's just the 200 hours of raiding

[quiet schooner]

is bow actually 185

that seems very fast

[rustic granite]

12/12 is definitely way slower than 7/7 at either of the other raids

Three megarares + other goodies to go dry on

[tacit crow]

Hilarious that elder maul used to be a complete troll drop. Arguably worse than a dragon sword cause it meant you hit the same table as tbow.

[hybrid blaze]

is this 'drop table' in the room with you right now?

[rustic granite]

Why would dragon sword not be on the same table

[chilly ruin]

i assume he means elder maul. but ye purple or no purple is really the only distinction that matters surely

[hybrid blaze]

The one that matters is 'items you are looking for' vs 'the rest'

[chilly ruin]

you can increase your ratio of uniques:other loot tho in cox and that's more what i was implying is relevant. but for elsewhere yea

[daring night]

i feel bad for anyone that might have deaths coffered that

honestly one of the best buffs jagex has done if you ask me

[loud jasper]

death coffering that even before it was buffed is insane

[daring night]

i dont personally know anyone who did but i could see a person being salty enough to do it

[tacit crow]

Id never coffer a non dupe unique. Regardless of how useless. But I think there's a chance someone did

[rustic granite]

I had this stance then they gigabuffed granite hammer and now I'm never budging

Warped sceptre paid off at Colo too

[tacit crow]

I'll be -1 bank slot forever because of these stupid granite gloves I got doing CAs.

[rustic granite]

Yup, probably useless but I'll hoard them forever

Once I get Eternal Glory I can use Death to store some of that stuff ig

Along with my beginner clue stack lol

[tacit crow]

I might be out of the loop on death storage. What does eternal glory have to do with storing at death?

[rustic granite]

You suicide to a recoil alt or with venom sacs to get from the fountain of rune to edgeville and claim the charged glories from death once his storage is almost full

Unless you're also reclaiming your glories every lap you want death storage to be empty for this

[tacit crow]

Ohh interesting. So as a non clogger I could just store some of this useless and worthless stuff at death with no downside?

[rustic granite]

And it's a short term enough goal I'd rather get the grind out of the way than put stuff into storage and take it out later

Yup

[tacit crow]

Is it just gp limited because we get charged a bunch of money on expensive items?

[rustic granite]

Yeah don't store expensive stuff in there but granite ring, brimstone ring, etc are good candidates

There's 120 slots and you want to have enough room that dying with a full inventory and full equipment + not getting to gravestone in time won't overfill it

[chilly ruin]

become a gim for free extra storage!

[rustic granite]

So if you treat it as like 80 you'll be fine

[noble shell]

runescape 3

[noble shell]

https://pobb.in/eTgnEgyjJ4E_

[real yacht]

Poe ladlor chart when?

[elder scroll]

aurabot enjoyer spotted

[loud jasper]

A new update (v.1.01) is out on THE chart guys (text or skilling icons not showing up bug is not yet fixed)

[chilly ruin]

new phishing method just dropped

[spice cloud]

Hello wanted to ask the wrath rune is to receive or level up runecrafting till 95?
If yes maybe somebody could give me a tip whats the point of doing it?

[austere pecan]

you get 95 rc to be able to craft wraths for offerings

[desert flume]

90 rc w stew boost

[magic blade]

Fuck rc kill yama

[rustic granite]

HOLY SHIT IS IT TIME FOR GRANITE RING TO SHINE

[frozen olive]

literally dropped all mine

[round pond]

whens the ladlor chart for sailing

[nocturne ridge]

retirement home

[noble shell]

Runescape3

[real yacht]

Im sure sailing will be a hard req for a future boss that drops a desirable item

[south fern]

Trident of the seas should be locked behind sailing

[noble shell]

ok

[rustic granite]

Sailing takes place in the timeline without Ladlor

[fossil flame]

u dont rrly even need that high of a sailing lvl right even for niche stuff?

like 68 sailing u can catch marlins/go to crabs for armadyl brews?

[hollow cobalt]

Need pretty high for the pipe

79

[real yacht]

Pipe is bad tho right

[hybrid blaze]

People said it might be a spec weapon at doom

[tacit crow]

Only thing it seems useful for is as a spec weapon for doom.

[hybrid blaze]

I think it's bad everywhere else

[tacit crow]

Assuming you don't have a toxic bp for specs. Cause I'd say the healing from that is more valuable. (Which you wouldn't if you are following the chart exactly)

[rustic granite]

If you get it before BP you could use it for luring slayer mobs

[hybrid blaze]

You can just use knives for that and not have to make darts

[rustic granite]

(post BP I'd still use the scales for the venom chance)

[tacit crow]

Can also use it for swarming at kephri for extended range pre bp

Since you bring knives in anyway

[rustic granite]

I feel like I've gotten adamant darts passively somewhere

Looks like it's just Supreme nvm

[rustic granite]

Even with bad darts it should still be your best option for monkey room thralls too

[tacit crow]

Yeah those are like 4hp right?

[pale fable]

I'm pretty dry at zulrah and have like 10 billion steel darts from graardor 🤧. The one extra range isn't super helpful, but it's still something. It's still bad, but i will be using it for the time being for luring

Actually i use goadings, but if i were to still tag things manually, i would

[rustic granite]

2

[tacit crow]

Oh yeah it'll be pretty nice for pre BP ToA then

Use at 2 rooms

So in terms of usefulness

1. Doom spec weapon (has to be addy darts/rosewood BP
2. TOA pre-bp (kephri swarming and monkey room thralls)
3. Tagging slayer monsters for barraging.

[pale fable]

Not worth going out of the way for but if you have all the reqs, might as well pick it up

[tacit crow]

Yeah it's going to depend on where sailing is routed more than anything. Rosewood BP is a pretty high sailing req

[pale fable]

And WC for that matter 🤣

[frail sonnet]

the extra 1 range from real bp is extremely useful for kephri tbh

ive done both knives and bp and without that range its almost impossible to do it as well as with bp

[pale fable]

Truee

[ionic walrus]

Also useful for phosani's, even if that is retirement home. But not worrying about swapping darts out of my toxic blowpipe means I'll probably make a low tier one lol

[hollow cobalt]

I mostly just want it for doom spec

[low stag]

Why is it good at doom? Sorry I haven’t read the spec yet

[hollow cobalt]

basically the same as dknives spec but only consumes addy darts

[low stag]

Oh damn, that’s pretty nice

[robust roost]

is it like rly easy to get or smth

[hollow cobalt]

just sailing lvl req

[noble shell]

runescape3

[real yacht]

But if you have toxic blowpipe its still better cause of the heal right

[tacit crow]

Yeah. I get way more value out of using the heal to delve deep instead of dps. Plus if you aim to use most of your bp specs on doom, it's also a good DPS bump over reg BP shots

I think I end up around 50-60% of my BP specs on doom vs. 40-50% on the trees for max hit

[drowsy ore]

Toxic is better, but doom is before zulrah in current chart, hence the use of rosewood blowpipe

[loud jasper]

Isn't it going to be skipped entirely? Or do you want the potions for something?

[hollow cobalt]

Currently i dont see much reason to do it early or really ever

[tacit crow]

Well I can think of one big reason

[hollow cobalt]

[craggy granite]

Just got 60 sailing rn, and seeing the multi nechs spot is pretty exciting ngl

[toxic juniper]

So is the recommendation to still get 95 rc as early as this gear progression says? Or is killing Yama a faster path to getting wrath runes now?

[umbral pasture]

you have to do quite a lot of slayer before getting to yama, so i think you'd still rather do 90+ rc first

[toxic juniper]

Why only 90+? Are people really stew boosting? Realistically how does that work? Log out every 10 seconds until you have enough runes?

[hybrid blaze]

you use scar essence to make 3k runes per inventory

[umbral pasture]

you stew boost once and make 3.5k wraths with scar ess

[hybrid blaze]

that way you only need 1 or 2 inventories worth

[toxic juniper]

Ooh

Amazing, thank you

[hybrid blaze]

training rc is still good, it doesnt get faster later and zmi gives a ton of runes for slayer

so its meta to do it first

actually going all the way to 99 is better than stopping at 90, but many people dont want to do the whole grind at once

[dusty widget]

Wat are wrath runes even used for mainly

Except for surge spells?

[still smelt]

Offering spells for prayer xp

[dusty widget]

I zee

Arceuss spell book?

[still smelt]

Yep. Got your thralls and offerings

[tall lark]

theres a bunch of stuff here like sepulchre, bloodbark, wrath runes etc. that are routed on the assumption that you care about maxing so cant see why sailing would be any different

so sailing by virtue of being a skill should be routed into the guides here

[loud jasper]

I mean it's not like every skill is mentioned, those listed help you with PvM stuff

Or get you more XP during slayer with wrath runes

[tall lark]

im sure theres stuff in sailing that are beneficial to progression if u assume u are getting the levels anyway

[inland cosmos]

one thing you are forgetting about both of those grinds is the amount of gp they give (or save you from spending to buy runes)

they are indeed routed with the assumption that you care about maxing

but they are put into positions where they are the most valuable to the other grinds

sailing is more of a gold sink and is very self contained

It will be routed, and sailing is still getting updated of course

But I don't think it will be early in the guide

[fossil flame]

from little sailing i feel like ive done u get no loot at all for training it

[tall lark]

sepulchure isnt really that good resource wise. im sure earlier in the thread people have discussed this a lot. same thing with the huge rc grinds

[inland cosmos]

they are at least not resource negative like sailing is

[tall lark]

the only reason its considered good is cause people here are getting the levels anyway

anyway give it a few months to a year im sure guidemakers will reroute stuff to include sailing 👍 its just a massive task cause a new skill has never happened before and probably require rewriting entire routes and guides factoring it all in

[loud jasper]

Probably not with what it's currently offering, I guess in bruh sailer you get quest cape so you would need the sailing level requirements

[desert flume]

the skill is almost completely self contained outside of multi nechs afaik

and ur even more incentivized to delay it if you’re on a new account since there will be more content added later

[hybrid blaze]

These are not based on an assumption that you're maxing

[hybrid blaze]

so far the main obstacle doesnt seem to be the current content, but rather the anticipation that there will be many updates in the near future. No point writing a guide now if it's going to be obsolete in two weeks

[tall lark]

grinding 91+ agility and rc?

i feel like those are for maxers

[desert flume]

the guide marks 82 agi as an optional stopping point and 90 rc for wraths is less than half way to 99

[tall lark]

especially how sepulchre doesnt really get good until high level

[full panther]

commital grinds for sure

[desert flume]

also Bloodbark is goated

[tall lark]

iirc didnt the barrage level via alching fall apart if u dont do the full agility grind?

[hybrid blaze]

you can stop the agility earlier. Sepulchre is not good if you do not want agility xp

The runecrafting is much more reasonable even if you dont care too much for the xp

there's other sources of magic xp, but you'll take a hit on slayer likely starting with smoke barrage over ice barrage

idk what to tell you other than read the last 80 times this came up. There's plenty of alternatives if you dont value the xp. You do not have to do content that you do not enjoy!

[woven nova]

Besides sailing

[hollow cobalt]

We don't have rates for the rosewood pipe thing, but I was fishing for ~3hrs and only got 1 so i think it's moderately rare at least

[full panther]

I'm happy to share that the urls are no longer walls of text! example:

https://ladlorchart.com/#/customize?token=h9MOaD03qdc

[quiet chasm]

Nice

[loud jasper]

https://ladlorchart.com/#/customize?token=m71GYvsX-lw

[real yacht]

Where are people finding nex teams these days

[winter pumice]

Probably ffa nex cc

Or nex ffa

Can’t remember which way it is

[real yacht]

What would be my ideal nex set up I have chaps but they aren’t fortified. Kinda wanna push for vamps before toa grind and maybe snag zcb

[winter pumice]

Not sure on set ups. Probably best strength helm and not sure how masori compares to Karils have to have someone better than me reply. Sorry 🙂

[fossil flame]

tbow/fang/vw thralls/dc rest kinda depends on if ur gona run trios or duos imo

imo bring karils/bandos or oathplate

[real yacht]

Probably trios to get comfortable never done the boss

[fossil flame]

it really shouldint be to bad now post changes

but if u are gona do this prob good call if u can to get atleast master cas first

ive heard from ppl that would not consider nex untill post gm

[real yacht]

This is in regards to the kc reqs right? Obv longer thrall is good

[fossil flame]

ye mostly kc req

[tacit crow]

Longer thrall is from master now also

[hollow cobalt]

longer thrall is pretty insignifcant at nex

[sharp hawk]

Why pipe after doom items?

Isn’t BP crazy OP for delves after 4?

[daring night]

zulrah easier with eye prob

[hybrid blaze]

the eye is better at zulrah

[daring night]

i think the core question is "does X thing save me more time at Y or does Y thing save me more time at X"

[sharp hawk]

Yeah I get that but at the cost of no blowpipe at doom? I’m still learning doom but isn’t BP crazy good for it?

[daring night]

it seems reasonable that eye would save you more time at zulrah

[sharp hawk]

Yeah, I guess it just assumes you’re already good at doom and don’t need blow pipe?

[frail sonnet]

no and Im extremely suspicious about the current order being correct

bp doesnt merely speed up the kill or make it sligthly easier but is insanely important for pushing as deep as possible

the better you get the more value bp gives you for pushing deep

my pb is 30 and im not sure id get to even 20 without pipe given you lose so much HP healing and lose out on any chance of free acid clears at orb phase

and if u assume that u get 30 clear with bp and 20 without then clearly bp is gonna have to come before doom

[daring night]

the problem with prescribing a certain path is that it ultimately comes down to how skilled you are

can guarantee that there are people who will never hit 20 under any circumstances

[frail sonnet]

from my experience, bp is least useful if ur only sending mainly normal delves and get to 10 or 11 at most

if the chart assumes ur an absolute gamer (which it is supposed to), bp instead becomes tremendously more useful

[daring night]

should the chart assume you are an absolute gamer? wouldn't it have more utility if it targeted the average person?

[frail sonnet]

thats a different convo because the current charts direction is based on a skilled player that has most likely played one or even multiple accounts before

I agree a chart for normal people would be better and more useful, but thats not ladlor chart

[daring night]

yeah, i think it's impossible to get a chart that targets literally everyone anyways

for every person there's some level of content that is impossible (or has an extremely low success rate) for them if they lack reaction time/memory/etc

i think the way it's ordered now is defensible for at least some section of the playerbase

[hollow cobalt]

Getting to 30 instead of 15-20 just isn't that big of a time save

But using eye at zulrah is a very big timesave

[frail sonnet]

seems cap af to me

ur also gonna get so many more timewaste 2nd shield phases if u use a bad weapon for car phase

[real yacht]

Did doom ever get solved why it seems most items are dropped on wave 1-8 and not post even tho it should be the most likely to drop

[indigo hollow]

Is there even data showing that to be the case?

If it's just "more of the drops that have been obtained period are on 1-8" that would probably be because there are more 1-8 completions than deep delves, surely

Not to mention if someone gets a drop in an earlier delve, they're going to stop there

[quiet schooner]

This is just reddit copium

[real yacht]

I figured it was more so most people dont deep delve so those get posted and those who do deep delve dont

[umbral pasture]

it's because most kills are 1-8

people make the mistake of thinking 8+ has best odds = most of my drops should come from 8+

but then they only have like a 20% deep ratio so ofc most of their oranges are gonna be 1-8

[patent pollen]

3-8

[frail sonnet]

I havent gotten a single drop outside of a deep delve at 8 drops

its the early delves that are bugged bro

[patent pollen]

I think pet was the only drop i got deep delving

2 boots both on 6 and eye at 7

[tacit crow]

I do think value could be derived from calculating a better estimate for exactly how much time blowpipe saves at doom.

It's really tough though. You'd have to start with an incorrect assumption of it not letting you delve deeper, but I think assuming 15 delve without blowpipe is fair, and that's where the curve started flattening for value from deep delves.

Main thing would be calculating percentage change of skipping 2nd shield with/without blowpipe I think. That doesn't seem too bad but I'm not smart enough to do that.

[hollow cobalt]

Overall it looks like roughly 1/4 of all drops should be from deeps https://i.imgur.com/AesplTz.png

[tacit crow]

That's a lot less treads in the game than I would've expected.

76k pairs

Guess it makes sense why they are holding good value

[torn wind]

I read or heard on a video a jmod confirmed the drop rates for doom are working on their end and according to the wiki crowd sourcing the drops rates are correct.

[umbral pasture]

having the most BiS applications of any item by far helps a lot too

everybody wants them for everything

[fading finch]

can someone resend the link to the progression chart

i tried scrolling up and i got tired after 2 minutes