#Gear Progression Chart

1 messages · Page 16 of 1

craggy granite
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And hasta is the crush weapon for Rax atm

fossil flame
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I just dont have a strong stance on things that I feel can be routed whenever for most part. Like having eye at any stage of progression pre shadow is impactful. where as imo even if u delayed elite cas untill u were ready for heart grind idt itd matter

craggy granite
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Yeah, and that’s mostly araxxyte + smokes from what I see

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Mostly elites ca’s are doable, but imo too early because it’d add more confusion to routing

midnight dome
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afaik waiting for 80 slayer was due to nechryaels making superiors more relevant, I don't see a reason to push it even later tbh

fossil flame
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i think only greater nechs have a superior though

midnight dome
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no

fossil flame
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melee nechs in slayer tower dont have superiors

midnight dome
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thats wrong

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they both have superiors

fossil flame
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ye ur right im tripping

midnight dome
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imo if you don't care for cas it's not technically efficient to get them at all from a slayer xp standpoint although it definitely is for heart grind later on. If you are interested in going for ca's anyways which is a reasonable assumption for a lot of players there's no reason to not do it at ~80

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you'll do all of them eventually anyways right

fossil flame
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i think it just boils down to being kind of annoying/big detour for people to do like hallowed sep

midnight dome
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I guess I am biased, I think cas are awesome and make you better at the game

fossil flame
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not doing sep imo is way worse for slayer grind then not having elite cas at 80 slayer imo

midnight dome
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yeah 100%

fossil flame
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ye and there was discussion about mitigating sep because of hm ppl complained but like ye elite cas I dont see much ppl complain but idk hm ppl actually are doing it either

midnight dome
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I just don't see the vision it doing it at 87, if you just care for it for the heart grind you can get it later when you're going for that specifically which is probably going to be post 99

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with all the bosses, tds etc you do nowadays you're not getting many heart rolls on a 99 grind most likely. I was at around 20% odds to have gotten heart at 99 with completing elite cas at 80

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and that was pre araxor

fossil flame
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ye thats how i feel about it as well but idt its more efficent just that it doesint matter really

midnight dome
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for me combat achievements are part of general account progression and improving at pvm but lots of people don't feel that way for sure

fossil flame
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i think most ppl prob should just start tskipping at 95 finish their uniques and do like 20m post 99 xp for heart or watever

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i totaly agree but i think at that stage of game people just wana build up their gear/stats over going for cas atleast thats how i felt

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like ur expected to get elite cas pre whip whatnot i think ppl will have a diffrent focus in their mind

chilly ruin
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elite CAs is still a pretty quick grind if you know what you’re doing though

craggy granite
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Going for elite CAs when there are a lot of upgrades specifically for them that come after means telling people do bowfa only CAs or grind the other bosses first

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I read the chart, I see “Zulrah is after eye, after elite CAs”
And it’s creating confusion for me to look at Zulrah CAs or not, an to what extent

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I think that while it’s most optimal to do them at 80

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We can add clarity by putting them after

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People who know will know

fossil flame
craggy granite
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It’s basically do them bowfa only or do gwd and toa then go elite ca’s

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And honestly I’m not sure where we’re landing on that

chilly ruin
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feels a little silly to do gwd into elite CAs but maybe its not that impactful

craggy granite
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There’s like 50-60 pts from grotesque guardians and then another 40 from sire & kraken

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I don’t get why I should do toa with scuffed gear for elite CAs at 80 when doing it a bit later I can get eye/trident at least, hasta more likely, more time for voidwaker/dpick

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All those other grinds get spread out

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And I can skip some of the more scuffed ones

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I don’t think bowfa only elite ca’s is something most people will want to do, I’m down for it

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And saying “just get hasta, bgs, voidwaker, etc” that’s a lot of pvm before a whip

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When at already 80 slayer

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87->95 are slayer upgrades outside of blowpipe & eye, which can be moved up, and fang for hydra

fossil flame
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i think u considering to delay elite cas already shows u dont value it enough to stop everything your doing. based on the other discussions to it seems other people feel similarly.

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to me this is like amethyst arrows before doom situation I wouldint stop someone from doing doom with rune arrows. and imo i wouldint stress about elite cas pre slayer but idk its up to u at end of day

hollow cobalt
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Then again, elite CAS before Abby demons/araxytes does basically nothing

craggy granite
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And the difference is only a few nechrael superiors at most?

dusky fog
hollow cobalt
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Big picture the increase in not-very-good superiors is basically nothing

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at 94.5 slayer having elites done basically made me go from 15% chance of heart to like 18% if I'd never gotten it

polar void
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Post 93 one should really have it though

nocturne ridge
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im 96 slayer without elite CA, because they got released when i was 95 slayer. so is it not super worth doing the elite CAs at that point?

nocturne ridge
craggy granite
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So it’s at 93 onward going to be a lot more impactful

nocturne ridge
tacit crow
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Same for araxxor.

nocturne ridge
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yeah slayer goals are TDs, eternal boots, rancour+hally. sounds like i can postpone elite CA until i fully commit to slayer

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i am turael skipping rn too

tacit crow
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Yeah none of those have superiors to benefit from.

nocturne ridge
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thats a nice bonus. i was stressing a little getting 600 points before doing any slayer

neat sparrow
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You'll probably get some smoke(or other barrage) tasks on the way to those other goals which benefit from elites

robust roost
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assuming your goal is eventual bis in all styles, you should probably try to get elite ca's as soon as reasonably possible if you are 93+ slayer

frail sonnet
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I got elite CAs at 80 slayer

tacit crow
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They said they are turael skipping.

frail sonnet
vestal jetty
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Definitely dont need to learn those on a main

nocturne ridge
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yeah goal will be imbued heart one day but tskippin right now for those items so i can do doom/yama

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ill go for heart when i go for 99 slay (and assming i get shadow lol)

frail sonnet
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only people who did that on main would do that on a baby iron with stinky gear

vestal jetty
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True. Having the experience beforehand would definitely help

frail sonnet
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and I got like maybe 100 CA points doing stuff you wouldnt if playing for the first time, and if it wasnt for that, elite CAs at 80 slayer wouldve been awful

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so its def best to postpone till 93

tepid goblet
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I did a list tho and tbh some of those frustrating tasks or ones that need exp can just be skipped

frail sonnet
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if you skip those its really hard to get elite CAs

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I was stuck doing tasks that took ages for not many points towards the end

tacit crow
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I disagree with this.

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There were plenty of tasks to do for free when I went for elites.

frail sonnet
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even towards the end at 80 slayer?

magic blade
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Agreed. 80 slayer aswell

tacit crow
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Yup

frail sonnet
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well I carefully looked through the entire list of all difficulties and really had to put in effort for my last 100 points so idk

tacit crow
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You knock out all the useless boss tasks that you never kill.

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Grotesque guardians have a ton

frail sonnet
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I did those like immedaitely

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then blocked the task

midnight dome
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you go for the kc task with bofa and then check out a guide and you should be fine

frail sonnet
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I cannot imagine any new iron who recently got their bowfa trying to pot this CA and not dying for hours straight

midnight dome
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I didn't and it was fine

frail sonnet
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u can grab some random noob from iron discussion and send them there and see how they fare

north acorn
midnight dome
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well you can always make an effort to learn

frail sonnet
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sure u can tunnel vision that CA and get it after probably like over 3h of dying and learning the boss at 1 kc

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is it even remotely a good idea? no

midnight dome
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that's how like every ca goes for me at a new boss

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you just learn at some point

frail sonnet
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well I first tried that CA after having done 800kc for SRA on my main

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took me a whopping 5 minutes to do that task, gearing included

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if those conditions dont apply, do not do a random difficult GM task for elite CAs

midnight dome
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but then you don't need to do it later lol

frail sonnet
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wtf are you saying genuinely

midnight dome
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why would it get easier when you have the 50kc task or however many it is

frail sonnet
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later? when youre going for GM and are tremendously better at the game and have kc on the boss for grinding it out?

midnight dome
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yeah but you get better at the game by doing the difficult tasks no

frail sonnet
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no

midnight dome
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surely you don't grind out 800kc of every boss before going for gm

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especilly not levi that has nothing useful

frail sonnet
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I think you have good reason to have a good amount of kc in most difficult bosses by the time youre going for GM

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and many people go for SRA and venator ring isnt useless either

hollow cobalt
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No this is just wrong lol

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All of it

frail sonnet
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what is

hollow cobalt
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Basically no one goes for sra, vene ring is indeed borderline useless and loads of people only do it for cas

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I did my bare min 50 KC on 2 acc's and never touched it again until I'd finished every other piece of content in the game

frail sonnet
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shwax literally grinded out SRA for fun and ive seen many high level irons with SRA so idk what u mean

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cant even say its just ironscapers that avoid SRA because its literally not true

hollow cobalt
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The vast majority don't get it because it's fucking useless

frail sonnet
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fyi I wouldnt go for SRA either buit lots of people disagree

hollow cobalt
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Which is why it was yeeted from the prog

midnight dome
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yeah either way I just don't think that particular ca is that difficult but ymmv. I wouldn't tell people to go send awakened levi though

frail sonnet
midnight dome
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for me that task is just an example of a pretty easy grandmaster one as all it is is do a normal kill but slower

hollow cobalt
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Wouldn't do awakened Levi on my way to elite CAS, but definitely did a lot of the free dt2 tasks on my baby hc

frail sonnet
midnight dome
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is it? I think cg is harder

frail sonnet
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and 0 cg kc

hollow cobalt
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Cg is much harder

tacit crow
frail sonnet
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I read the opposite and ppl flexing it constantly

midnight dome
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well it's a flex because it's rare because most people don't bother to get it lol

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as it's not even that good in tob anyways for grinding out scythe

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even if you do have it

frail sonnet
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also ive just personally seen countless SRA irons in tob in wdr

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despite the fact a !sra command exists about how bad it is

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it doesnt matter to them

tacit crow
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There's one tobber iron in my clan with it. All the others including myself are 4t legends.

midnight dome
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that's fair, I got a spooned scythe so I was mostly raiding in scythe req raids

hollow cobalt
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What the fuck are we even on about anyways lol

tacit crow
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Idk lol. Seems useless. SRA bad, if bad people want to go get it and waste time, go for it?

hollow cobalt
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Elite CAS pretty good before you get seriously into the heart grind past 92/93, do whatever you want to get there

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Anyways

midnight dome
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yeah this discussion got sidetracked, mb

frail sonnet
hollow cobalt
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Sure why not

tacit crow
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I would not recommend it. But I never killed Levi so there were tons of quicker tasks for me to go for than learn levi

hollow cobalt
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If they've ever seen the boss before why not

frail sonnet
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I 1st tried it since experience on main and still think its a terrible CA to go for if its not a free CA for you

tacit crow
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If you killed Levi before sure, if you need to learn the boss, do something quicker/easier. You have tons of options to get elite

midnight dome
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it's basically just a perfect kill but do it slower

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I think most people can get the perfect kill by 50kc

tacit crow
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I didn't even do more than 3 Levi kills and not even that task when going for master CAs, let alone elite.

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Useless boss

chilly ruin
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is it worth discussing one specific CA lol

tacit crow
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Quicker to get a HMT going and do those CAs than do 50 Levi KC

frail sonnet
chilly ruin
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i didnt see anyone saying that except you

hollow cobalt
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Ok moving on lol

frail sonnet
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I said its a terrible task to go for during 80 slayer elite CA grind

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which is something you do very soon after CG

tacit crow
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I scrolled up and I'm like 90% confident you have been arguing against yourself now.

frail sonnet
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tell me how

tacit crow
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I'm gonna leave it between you, I'm backing out.

frail sonnet
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got ragebaited I see

midnight dome
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nah it was me

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I said that ca is not that bad lol but I guess arguing against an example is silly

chilly ruin
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i saw ppl saying they thought it was fine to try but no one as adamant as you were about it

frail sonnet
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its definitely a pretty terrible CA for someone with barely any real pvm experience in general, and also no experience at levi specifically at all

chilly ruin
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but w/e

frail sonnet
craggy granite
frail sonnet
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like before u even have the kc ca, go do a perfect kill in awful gear on a boss youve never done before

chilly ruin
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i did a bunch of that for elites

frail sonnet
chilly ruin
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my first time ever going for elite cas and starting to get past the progression of my og main

woven nova
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How else r u going to do CAs without learning the content

craggy granite
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I think that if getting elite ca’s at 80 slayer involves 100 kc at every gwd boss & 25+ toa elites and 150 Zulrah kc, and just adding those

woven nova
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It will just take time

craggy granite
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And then it’s a bit of “well, can do those, add doom, etc” and it’s saying before touching and leveling up slayer

tacit crow
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Bro it doesn't

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I skipped kree and Sara for elite and only did 2 additional kree KC for masters, and 20 additional Sara.

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Definitely didn't touch zulrah

hollow cobalt
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There's just relatively little value in doing it at low slayer

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Since those superiors are kinda ass

craggy granite
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I’m saying this not even including GGs, cause unlocking it by then isn’t even on lock

woven nova
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Well then u get it a few levels later

craggy granite
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And if saying hey GGs and Sire and Kraken are part of it

chilly ruin
craggy granite
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Even by Cerb

chilly ruin
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(agreeing w you that its low value)

hollow cobalt
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Whether you do it at 80, 85 or 93 makes 0 difference

tacit crow
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Someone's gotta link that sheet bruh had for getting elites early. Cause there clearly is a misunderstanding of what tasks you are doing at that stage.

hollow cobalt
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Gz on 1% more XP on 1/3 of your tasks

craggy granite
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It’s that doing it early before Smokes and Araxxytes is lower value anyways

hollow cobalt
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It does fuck all

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If you do it at 93 there's a lot less going out of your way for it

craggy granite
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Putting voidwaker, toa, doom, Yama, Zulrah, etc right before elite CAs and after kraken/cerb slayer it makes it beyond free

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And it saves needing to look through a spreadsheet that’s going to be out of date

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And jumping around too much

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There isn’t a one and done CAs for elite CAs write up for ironmen that’s generally accessible

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The amount of time that someone is going to spend trying to figure out which tasks to do and not to do because they’re not worth it

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Will waste more time

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There are a lot of bad tasks available that people can go out of their way to do because it’s accessible and they won’t know better

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Elite CAs early encourages that more than anything else

tacit crow
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Feels like splitting hairs.

craggy granite
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Someone going for 50 kc elite TOA to get Elites specifically before getting better gear wasted more time

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Than just leaving that for later

tacit crow
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You can't really just pluck out random CAs and say bad like that. Some people will need to have done 50 to get their needed uniques and done a ton of tasks along the way. Other will have gotten within 20

craggy granite
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Yea, they could just not do that task atm, but it’s putting a lot of variance and isn’t clear

tacit crow
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I think it is it comes down to do what you want to do. I had fun going for elite CAs early, and didnt feel like it was a struggle at all, just had me going out of my way for sure.

The time you spend you'll make up for in increased xp (if you compare to going back and doing the tasks with better gear later)

Unless you are doing some really inefficient bossing.

chilly ruin
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ya i found it fun and learnt from it and it was much easier than i anticipated

craggy granite
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Ignoring most KC tasks >50 and slayer bosses, I had a count of around 1100 points, including more perfection tasks and groups that I’d recommend

There’s around 1064 points needed atm

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There isn’t that much leeway if not including a lot of the KCs and at least GGs, and it involves already knowing or learning COX/TOA mechanics for a lot of that too

full panther
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it looks like the elite CAs are being discussed. when accounting for the merit of the CA, are yall assuming chance for heart exclusively?

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or also the extra bit of xp

hollow cobalt
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It's equally useless for both

chilly ruin
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i think this whole convo is a bit sidetracked

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i'd be curious about the original reasoning for its placement tho

nocturne ridge
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sorry i started it

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im hunting araxxor/tds/eternals and asked about doing elite CA before then lol

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at 96 slay

craggy granite
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Nah, I started talking about it today a lot (sorry)

chilly ruin
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tds seem like such a big chunk of xp now but i'd be surprised if that alone shifts the meta too much

craggy granite
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The take that I got was thinking too hard about how to do CAs wastes more time than doing CAs then saves

full panther
craggy granite
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Araxxytes and slayer master changes had a bigger impact, and then TDs, Doom, Yama, moving Zulrah back, saying we do less TOA, etc

full panther
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but conservatively so, deciding 85 per my memory

chilly ruin
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i guess the more shit tier CAs that are added the more time away from efficient prog things you have to spend to some degree, and there has been a bit of that lately (unrelated to most of the above discussion)

full panther
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but i cant even find ghommal4 on the chart atm

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nvm there it is

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get 3/4th of slayer with it was the idea

craggy granite
full panther
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starting at 85 ish or whatever

craggy granite
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It’s at 80 slayer or so rn

full panther
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right

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anyhow, easy to get, get it early, get most benefit from it

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original logic

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i can see the embedding it into grinds argument

craggy granite
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Yeah, it needs routing atm, or more knowledge than fresh iron would likely have

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imo

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Putting it before Zulrah, Doom, Yama, Tent, Whip, etc gives an implication to go for elite CAs without them

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When they have between all of them probably like 150+ points?

tacit crow
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I mean only elite tier CAs being added matter? Id argue there are more easier CAs at master from those bosses to make up for the new elite tasks that suck (looking at you 30 second wave 1 doom)

chilly ruin
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iirc the chart only specifies medium pre pest control and then elite, so there's a bit of a jump there as it assumes a lower starting point

quiet schooner
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I love lamp

robust roost
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hate lamps

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i want the light to come from the center of my ceiling not a table in the corner of the room

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ngl

this may/may not be significant

but one thing i hadn't thought about for the scythe placement relative to other megas is that it also helps a ton for the duke grind

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it saves probably around 10s per kill factoring in how much you have to 5t ember

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like 2h saved across the grind if that number remains accurate

real yacht
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Is there a world where you progress pretty much go all the way to yama tiles before going back for 2nd synapse friend is at 4300 kc and still one

craggy granite
real yacht
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I mean that makes sense but he would either A be soloing or B ffa world. Idk if Randoms are fine with stuff like that

full panther
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i wouldn't rely on them no. Also emberlight on 1 synapse is fairly commital, but doable

fossil flame
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void flares aside it still helps with judges to

robust roost
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emberlight on 1 synapse means you’re kinda locked out of doom until the 2nd synapse

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i would just yama with the arclight atp unless you somehow have enough shards to make a 2nd ember so you can revert to scobow after you finish yama

hollow cobalt
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unless you have ancient shards then you can swap a bit

tacit crow
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I'm gonna guess that the poor soul with 4300 TDs and 1 synapse is low on those. But maybe they did all their slayer pre TDs, so who knows.

hollow cobalt
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or they got 1 and used it for tds

real yacht
dusky fog
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If you’re going to do CAs eventually anyways, I can’t fathom why you would wait till after you’ve done the majority of your slayer

hollow cobalt
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that's not the majority of your slayer though

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it's basically barely the start

dusky fog
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96 slayer is not the start of slayer

hollow cobalt
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if you're going for heart yeah you've barely started

tacit crow
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I mean if heart is the end goal it's closer to the start

hollow cobalt
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and were did we get 96 from lol

dusky fog
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The seacow guy above

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I cba to go find it

hollow cobalt
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80 vs 85 vs 92/93 is basically 0 diff

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do it whenever who gives a fuck

tacit crow
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I think he's already got 96 slayer without elite CAs

dusky fog
tacit crow
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Was also turael skipping for araxxor, TDs and cerb I believe. So zero benefit to actually doing the CAs as well

dusky fog
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Are you saying to just get them passively then?

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Or just before heart grind

hollow cobalt
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get them at some point between 80 and 93 slayer

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anywhere in there

craggy granite
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Probably put elite ca’s at after Cerb & Rancour & Occult then
Where as long as you need Rancour you’re still doing Rax

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?

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Those who can get it done earlier, great

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Those who are just following the chart, do elite CAs before Hydra there?

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It’d be a little bit less efficient, but it’d be mostly done and probably clearer

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Cause it puts elite CAs after Eye, Zulrah, TOA (fang)

toxic harbor
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What is everyone alching at Sep?

tacit crow
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Alchs. If you run out of the typical alchs can do some cut gems, and then downgrade to bolts/javelin heads and last resort of gold bars

inland cosmos
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valuable shit > rune bolts from sep > gold bars > feathers

tacit crow
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You are moreso alching for the mage xp

toxic harbor
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I don't know what the typical alchs are 😄

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I've not followed bruhsailor guide, just using Ladlor as a semi-reference.

frozen olive
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gold bars, runite bolts

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anything break even

toxic harbor
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Oh I do have quite a lot of gold bars actually.

tacit crow
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Anything in your bank that has an alch value close to the gp value and no other uses

toxic harbor
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Yeh fair point.

inland cosmos
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alching gold bars works well

tacit crow
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Typically metal gear, onyx bolts battle staffs, mystic robes, etc

frozen olive
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rune bars despair

inland cosmos
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you saw nothing

frozen olive
toxic harbor
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I can't see how I'm gonna get to 94 magic at sep but I figure try get some levels 😛

tacit crow
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I mean they were asking what alchs are.

chilly ruin
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or the lvl to make onyx bolts even if u get bolt tips 😔

tacit crow
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Those are the typical things you refer to as alchs.

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May have some staffs and may have some random gear lying around, but yeah gold bars/the bolts you get from sep are gonna be your main supply

toxic harbor
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And Sep gives enough nats to keep up or? I can RC them so not worried tbf.

hybrid blaze
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long term yes, in the short term you may need to supply some on the side. Unless you're already at pretty high rc it's likely better to buy them, not rc them

toxic harbor
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I've got ~3k nats atm

umbral pasture
native ridge
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If I can’t stomach doing the sep alch grind atm and want to push ZMI, barraging off task at like, MM2 tunnels is fine to get SBS?

hollow cobalt
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would not ever barrage offtask

native ridge
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So if I’m gonna barrage just do slayer at the same time?

austere pecan
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Just alch doing something else?

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Lots of activities you can get some alch time in on

native ridge
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I have runes for barraging, I don’t have the 40k nats

real yacht
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@tacit crow update lol he finally got it

received_1196043225756070.jpg
blazing fern
tacit crow
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Idk why I included that as a common alch lol. Last alch boss I did was hydra I guess

polar void
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jesus, 4.5k td's and only 2 synapses...awful

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besides the ourania altar worlds, any good place to find others doing ZMI/luring/clanning zmi?

frozen olive
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365/474

polar void
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👿

frozen olive
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?

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they aren't pvp

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ppl skip those worlds so it has better tick rate for skilling

polar void
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omg, you werent lying

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i thougiht this was a lure haha

frozen olive
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😭

polar void
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dope, ty man

chilly ruin
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just hop off them before clueing

dusky fog
blazing fern
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is there a yama duo fc?

north acorn
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haven't found any but there's always a bunch of people lf duo in 394

languid carbon
#

Few questions about the progression chart - anyone aware?

  • Does the "ice barrage" tile on the slayer near the start indicate continue doing slayer until you unlock ice barrage? ad why is this recommended before slayer helm (i)?
  • No moons of peril, does this mean they're not efficient at all?
  • Why specifically 92 range and 86 str pre CG grind?
  • Why not titans prayer scrolls before CG?
hybrid blaze
#
  • No. It means you should have ice barrage here, before doing slayer
  • Yeah moons are awful
  • 92 range is a max hit at cg and 93 is a max on bowfa. You can go higher/lower but it's likely a little worse. 86 str is a normal target for 100cb, and also a max hit on halberd in cg
  • Titans after cg is better than cg after titans. The scrolls only save around 2-5 seconds each per kill at cg.
inland cosmos
#

the magic xp is expected to come from for example mta, and alching while doing other activities such as sepulchure

languid carbon
#

very insightful, thanks both

I'm a little perplexed about 94 magic before starting slayer. I've done MTA and am sitting on 82. I've not started Sepulchure yet, but 82-->94 is almost 100k alchs... feels like i'd still end up short of 94 mage even if i just do sepulcher now to 99 agil and alch all the way. Am I missing something?

hollow cobalt
#

If you arent going for max I think that's kinda suspect honestly

frozen olive
#

Having barrage unlocked is good

hollow cobalt
#

Yes ice barrage is much faster for slayer but if you take a 100hr detour doing something you wouldn't do anyways... That's a lot of time to make up

chilly ruin
#

90 and (divine) magic pot is also possible. you can also use the lowest tier barrage spell much earlier (although its worse)

hybrid blaze
#

you can cast ice barrage at 90, and 82->90 is under 50k alchs

#

you can avoid sepulchre and just do slayer with smoke barrage

languid carbon
#

smoke barrage is a good call tbh

I don't have the herblevel or crystal shards unlocked yet for magic divine pot, that feels like it comes later in the sequence than slayer anyway - but alching 82--> 86 seems feasible

What the hell do you guys get 50k of to alch?

patent pollen
#

Prolly gold from bf and bolts from sep

inland cosmos
#

you can also in the worst case alch feathers if you have nothing of value

#

you alch for the xp and not for the gp

chilly ruin
#

if you're skipping/delaying sep like me and end up making more battlestaves that's some extra magic xp also

languid carbon
#

moths, are you making your own air-orbs daily?

#

50k alchs costs what, like 10m gp to buy?

how did you guys get that stack before cg?

inland cosmos
#

if you follow the chart the answer is sepulchure

chilly ruin
#

not daily no. i did get some staves from zaff but only when i was actively making orbs, i mostly bought from yanille

#

i ended up making more in anticipation of cg battlestaves also

umbral pasture
#

you don't have to buy 50k nats all at once

hybrid blaze
#

you get around 43k runite bolts from sepulchre to 98 agility

hollow cobalt
#

Again, if you're doing agi anyways for max, you might as well alch to set up for slayer. If not its going to be faster to just start slayer with slightly worse spells

languid carbon
#

makes sense tbh - I'll do that. Appreciate the advice all

I don't have gem bag or book of the dead yet - I understand that's needed before slayer, but is there any particular reason they're sequenced before hallowed sepulcher?

hollow cobalt
#

Gem bag can be used for multiskilling stuff, I didn't get one tbh

still smelt
#

Book of the dead is for thralls which you should have before doing any real combat. Gem bag isn’t totally necessary but useful in niche places.

polar void
languid carbon
#

Right - so gem bag is only before sepulcher because it gets you gold bars in the process, which is good alch fodder before you get a good stack of rune bolts from sep

inland cosmos
#

you are expected to buy most of your gold ore

woven nova
#

I guess u make some gold ore out of it but not much

polar void
#

No gem bags let's you do stuff like smuggle gems into gotr for multiskilling

#

It's a very specific item for the most part

hollow cobalt
#

Not sure why its on the prog tbh

polar void
#

Bc gem mining is efficient, no?

tacit crow
#

I mean you can definitely gem mine without it dropping the worst gems before you hit the bank loop

fossil flame
#

theres alot of grinds ppl ask about but idk last time ive ever seen someone stressed about 90+mining/trading stick cooking route

inland cosmos
#

I think most people assume fishing for karambwans instead of buying

polar void
tacit crow
#

Gotcha

quiet schooner
#

Most of that stuff is very unnecessary and not likely to be done

polar void
#

I've only done that method a few times, I personally cannot sustain 3t gem mining, it's a hard method to do long-term

inland cosmos
#

I honestly do think gem bag should be removed from the chart

quiet schooner
#

Sepulchre actually has relevant progression and rewards to do

inland cosmos
#

mlm is such a waste of time anyway

quiet schooner
#

Gem bag and multiskilling in gotr does not lol

polar void
#

You need mlm for diaries it's not a waste

inland cosmos
#

cant you do vm instead?

polar void
#

Maybe? I thought mlm was faster for outfit

fossil flame
#

u only need hat now its pretty fast

#

either way

polar void
polar void
quiet schooner
#

U can do both of those without gem bag

polar void
#

100% I think the chart is simply suggesting gem bag could be handy for the most efficient gotr method

quiet schooner
#

I got a gem bag myself but I could not be assed at all to do multiskilling

#

I just got gotr over with as fast as possible

#

And afk glass blew to 99

inland cosmos
polar void
#

This is also what I did

#

Except I'm at zmi/glass atm

quiet schooner
#

I think stuff like that has no place on a chart like this

polar void
#

What, multiskill?

inland cosmos
#

no gem bag

quiet schooner
#

Whereas sepulchre actually has relevant rewards (prayer pots, gp, time to alch to 90 magic)

languid carbon
#

i'm trynna set up for sepulcher - what's best to loot? only with the charge spell and the crossbow?

the repair bridge thing seems like it needs mith nails - and can't buy those

quiet schooner
#

Getting a gem bag with the implication u will multiskill in gotr is asinine

polar void
#

I agree with your sentiment, but if we are to assume one will multiskill in one place why are we now assuming someone wouldn't in another?

#

Seems inconsistent

inland cosmos
fossil flame
#

imo u arent gona have enough gems to reasonably do this either without a ton of post pvm or actually doing gem mining

polar void
#

That's the real issue I have with gem bag on chart, is it implied I should gem mine a fat amount for gotr?

#

You do need 85 for TOA

languid carbon
inland cosmos
#

yes

fossil flame
#

but getting craft lvls is pretty free

polar void
#

I'm with you, I just want to know if that's the implication with gem bag

#

Well, you do have to wait for seaweed to grow

fossil flame
#

the amount of gems u need for craft xp is insane 10k emeralds is only like 670k craft xp

#

idt ud be able to source a reasonable amount of gems but idk without gem mining

polar void
#

Isn't it like 200+ gems an hour with 3t? I think it's more (gems being any gem above sapphire)

frozen olive
#

It's nice to not have to drop more opals but idk how important I'd rank that

umbral pasture
inland cosmos
#

I was thinking mainly for diary there

#

but yeah those are good mining options

still smelt
#

I believe in that part of the guide you’re doing MLM for coal and gem bag, around the same time going for piety. The mith ores you get from MLM you can process, along with the d hide from getting piety is enough to get you 75 smithing for addy nails for f4 sep. I’m not sure that’s what the gem bag is signifying there though.

woven nova
#

Gem mining gems are good pre 87 crafting and still p decent after and makes u some gp from processing diamond and maybe ruby

#

But it’s for sure not as necessary like sepulchre, just a bit better than other mining/crafting methods early

#

I don’t think it rly matters if it’s there or not

languid carbon
#

MLM?

woven nova
#

blast mine but if u do gem bag or coal bag at later mining levels then u get some addy ore also yea

languid carbon
#

ye sweet

#

and u ignore the grapple loot? so just building bridges and enchnating?

woven nova
#

f3 enchant f4 bridge/enchant f5 all

#

stop looting f3 once u unlock floor 4 or 5 probably or up to you

desert flume
#

If you value med clues then f3 good

#

just the enchant tho

radiant pelican
#

just looked at the chart for the first time in a while

#

scythe is after cox now

#

and dhl is gone

#

so what wep do we use for solo cox?

chilly ruin
#

dhl is returning btw

hollow cobalt
polar void
#

the revenge arc

hardy fractal
#

Does that chart get updated over
time?

austere pecan
#

Yes

chilly ruin
#

just for reference

hardy fractal
hollow cobalt
#

Why on earth is lance back

fossil flame
#

its a pretty fast item to get compared to scy arguements for both sides seemed even

#

cant rrly go wrong with having it imo

forest knot
full panther
# hollow cobalt Why on earth is lance back

the design philosophy of the chart sequencing has been rigidity, not taking into account preferences on what is enjoyable, simply showing the sequencing when deploying the meta wherever. The medium has constraints in documenting the meta execution, but hasn't been a large problem, hence things have largely worked out overall. The matter of dragon hunter lance inclusion however exposes the brittleness of this rigidity philosophy when pushed to its limit:

  1. execution assumptions (that the chart cant meaningfully encode in visuals) can have massive implications, i.e. dhl or no dhl for 2+13, and cox-tob sequencing too. Should the chart extend as far as assuming 2+13 if this is uncontested the best way to do cox? implications are maintenace burdens and stability overall.
  2. Accessibility is pushed to its limit with execution opacity. for most of the steps, inference on what is intended is not too tricky, but sequencing aroung cutting-edge meta for raids now risks having significant impact on average user not in the know.

Rigidity is still the guiding philosophy, but its deemed that it alone cant lift the burden of the chart on this matter, so the compromise is a structural enforcement that alleviates this for now, which is decoupling late-midgame and megarare grind sequencing.

polar void
north acorn
frozen olive
tacit crow
#

If rigidity was always the underlying goal, what was that detour with the scythe/lance dependency with one or the other appearing? Just testing the feature?

full panther
#

it was some boundary testing yes

#

another potentially feasible way of addressing the limits of rigidity that could be explored again. Truthfully i like the feature still

tacit crow
#

I thought it was cool

#

And it made a lot of sense for those two items in particular

full panther
#

The main problem is that this feature is only accessible to someone if they know about it beforehand, or happen to read it in the changelog, or 1:

  1. know they dont want the scythe ever and
  2. goes to the effort to hide it because they don't want it cluttering up things

i 100% agree the feature is cool, but it just doesn't cut it for addressing the problems imo sadly

tacit crow
#

Fair. Thats a pretty big issue

rustic granite
#

can you set the server up so that every other day it adds or removes the lance

pale fable
#

As for rigidity, I think once people are the point they are hunting megas, they should be able to figure out for themself (or at least not need to follow a chart) for how they want to deviate from the "meta" strat and it's impossible for account for all of them. I don't think you need to compromise that much in that regard

quiet schooner
#

It should really just branch off into whatever u wanna do after quiver

loud marsh
#

is it worth adding in pendant of ates for farm runs or is that too small of an upgrade?

raven valley
loud marsh
#

yeah I just saw there are other skilling items on the chart so thought maybe it belongs in the chart too but you're right it is quick to obtain compared to some of the others

fossil flame
#

I agree with tae and chester but I do feel like there needs to be some image or say on how sequencing mrares should be. I liked the impact triangle to loosely show that. expecting someone to get a mrare has always been extreme assumption even if its objective. They are longest grinds so I think people will always drop eff to make grinding more convenient/enjoyment-(having scy so u can grind outside of 2+13 is an example of that)

#

and so I think when we get to the mrare stage it might be best for the guide to be less objective

inland cosmos
#

We don’t place stuff like salts there for herb runs

umbral pasture
#

it's good for doom down the line as well so def worth grabbing

timber kiln
celest token
#

How much agility is expected to gain from the Hallowed Sepulchre tile?

hybrid blaze
#

Until 11,8m xp

celest token
#

How much time should it take?

hybrid blaze
#

150 hours or so

celest token
#

Well I guess I should learn it on mobile then

sharp oak
vestal jetty
#

It’s not worth going for virtus for 3+12 cox if I already have ultor and magus, right?

umbral pasture
#

definitely not

#

full virtus is an outrageously long grind

round pond
#

reading jokerd's chat when he was looking at the chart today was painful, as usual PigYesHoney

austere pecan
#

The osrs playerbase is truly a special one

rustic granite
#

Streamer chat 🤢

noble shell
#

can you set the server up so that every other day it adds or removes the lance

polar void
#

its really not worth getting a nox hally for vardorvis?

#

and if not, is this the time to utilize my tent whips?

vestal jetty
#

Can someone explain why heart is after cox? Having it to prepot seems nice. Is it just because it takes too long to justify?

drowsy ore
#

Tbow for vbow for araxytes

robust roost
#

i wouldn't get nox pre-scythe though

#

unless you happen to get it on the way to fang

vestal jetty
#

And the cox tile is assuming something like 3+12s right? If thats the case would it be worth getting dragon hunter wand since that involves a lot of barraging?

hollow cobalt
#

Probably not, sotd if anything surely?

vestal jetty
#

I guess that would be the efficient way to go. Not sure I can handle that much manual barraging though

midnight dome
#

ancient sceptre is not too bad for 3+12s, the accuracy matters a lot

polar void
#

if i dont have a venator bow, how should i go about my araxyte tasks?

rustic granite
#

At Muspah

polar void
#

yeah i just dont have a shadow or twisted bow and was thinking my kills are gonna take forever

#

im 93 slayer atm and no heart, so obviously i want to do araxyte tasks, but i see that venator bow is placed much later in the chart, so what is the solution? im finished with araxxor, i have fang but no hally so im done farming him for now

opal patrol
#

im in the same situation, spooned fang but gonna keep killing araxxor till im done with ca's. i have eye and bowfa but not sure if its worth going for muspah with that gear

frail sonnet
#

with ayak idk what ur waiting for

opal patrol
#

hmm ok

frozen olive
#

I did a lot of bowfa/bowfa+ trident for mine and felt it was well worth it as well

rustic granite
frozen olive
#

It's good yeah

opal patrol
#

👍

rustic granite
frozen olive
#

It's pretty hard to use optimally cuz moving off spike and doing 6+ way and prayer in 3t is quick

rustic granite
#

bigger gap than I expected, didn't realize accuracy mattered that much at it

frozen olive
#

Yeah

opal patrol
#

should i bring dwh for when i range?

frozen olive
#

I know a lot of ppl like it, idk what time save/accuracy looks like tho

real yacht
#

I bring dwh just cause slow kills are just annoying would rather desert 4 tele and reset

polar void
#

Is ayak or dwh spec higher value?

hollow cobalt
polar void
#

What area

hollow cobalt
#

uh the task one

polar void
frozen olive
#

You have to do the same thing you do with dags, I did a few tasks and got okayish rates, but doing that and trying to pick up all the venom sacks and other loot is really tedious

wraith dirge
#

hey guys new here, just took a look at the ladlor chart for the first time and I was wondering if there's anywhere I can get a more detailed explanation for the "WHY" things are done in this particular order (specifically things like why is gem bag important early, why such high cons and magic before pretty mild slayer/ranging goals). thanks

wraith dirge
#

also is there a recommended path to efficiently gather the resources needed for 81 cons and 94 magic somewhere?

hybrid blaze
#

@wraith dirge

  • There is no spelled out resource that answers what you're looking for, but people here (and this 15k+ reply thread) hold the answers
  • Gem bag might as well be frontloaded. It's good for multiskill gotr after doing gem mining, and it doesn't get faster later. You could skip it if you want.
  • The cons step is 75. There's no 81 cons step. You get the magic from alching at sepulchre, which is over 3m magic xp en route to 98 agility.
  • Slayer is terrible early. The longer you postpone it the better. There are a ton of ways to make slayer better by doing non-slayer, but very few ways that this works the other way around.
  • Ranged is in a weird spot. There's no weapons worth using or important situations to use it pre bowfa, so you just stay at level 62 (sepulchre grapple) until you're ready to chin to high level and do CG. It's pretty much a dead skill at low level.
wraith dirge
#

Thank you!

rotund reef
#

Full blue moons before Yama now then? 😂

hollow cobalt
#

Wonder if it saves time

silent pasture
#

dont let the rage baiter see this

rustic granite
#

are people mining runite ore

rotund reef
#

Loved the video

full panther
#

that robospear shit is proper cool

#

does anyone happen to know the avg ttk for p3 with donofly?

rustic granite
#

lot of variance

#

low hp phase + varying amount of spec + depends on when he decides to send you to the second judge

tacit crow
full panther
#

31% increase over donofly at p3 seems to equate to a speedup of 90% for yama in total

#

~50 hours to oathplate, thats about 5 hours that could be saved lol

#

how quick is getting bloodbark? surely not more than a couple hours

frozen olive
#

3 ish

tacit crow
#

10 hours might be really generous also for a blue moon estimate if you are doing it at the stage you get bloodbark

tacit crow
frozen olive
#

Definitely not going to be saving time

robust roost
#

mfw moons finally meta progression because of fucking robospear

#

i would actually shit my soul

full panther
#

i would love if it was tbh

tacit crow
#

I had enough fun with the full fur suit in nylo room to make it worth the time getting. Sad oathplate makes it so that I'm never spending the inventory slots on the suit now though.

#

Was still massively inefficient to go for, but oh well.

daring night
#

(joke)

real yacht
midnight dome
#

Would be hilarious ngl

sharp hawk
wheat geyser
#

Wait you dont go for lance in hydra anymore?

image.png
hollow cobalt
#

it's very very optional

wheat geyser
#

Start is to get scythe in tob and then do cox grind?

hollow cobalt
#

Yes scythe is good at cox and cox items don't speed up tob

hollow isle
#

Hello all, is the gem bag a necessary unlock? If so, why or why not?

chilly ruin
#

not at all. it's helpful for some multiskilling

#

and for gem mining

hollow isle
#

I assume spending the nuggets on the prospector gear is more worth for my first nuggets

#

so thanks for the reply!

hybrid blaze
#

ideally you get prospector from volcanic mine

#

mlm isnt great, get the items you want and bail

hollow isle
#

Right so that's why it's in the chart at that spot/

hybrid blaze
#

yes

hollow isle
#

Thanks!

tepid goblet
#

at the doom stage on the chart is there any reason to wait before grinding ayak as well as the boots?

#

I assume u just wanna get LB + double death charge before grinding then ur set

rustic granite
#

Double death charge matters way more

#

Rigour big too

tepid goblet
#

yeah makes sense

#

the chart puts rigour after tho ig it's useful to have but not as much as eye for cox?

rustic granite
#

Sure

drowsy ore
#

Rigour, amethyst arrows and dragon arrows all have weird breakpoints at different range levels from 93-99

#

Sometimes 1 of those upgrades is +3 max hits

lunar lodge
#

Certainly Doom is better to do before Rigour if you are deciding between the two.

nocturne ridge
#

had this conversation in ironman discussion the other day but wanna make sure i dont waste a ton of time. i got 2 synapse before any burning claw at TDs. i dont have voidwaker so wondering if i should continue with td for claw or just go to voidwaker grind? i understand they have diff uses at nex, high invo toa, corp, PNM but thats really it right?

hybrid blaze
#

Personally I think sticking around for burning claws is better. It's a shorter grind and gives meaningful slayer and prayer xp, and some other side benefits.

#

You can additionally go for VW if you want, but I'd definitely include bclaws

nocturne ridge
#

ok thank you. can just get bclaw for now and VW if i decide to push any of those endgame grinds then

#

3rd synapse doesnt hurt for QOL

fossil flame
#

bclaws and vw are both bis items i dont think it would be bad to go for both of them

nocturne ridge
#

good to know they have independant uses but VW can be held off till later in my scenario

fossil flame
#

toa is big thing that justifies it imo nex corp are very deep

hybrid blaze
#

fwiw im a big fan of bclaws and less of vw, other people have different views on this

#

they are both bis in certain situations, so the case for going for both is pretty strong

fossil flame
#

but like id argue bclaws are better for yama/arraxor/cerb/duke/colo/tob/cox so i feel like those use cases can compete with toa for sure

#

and bclaws are decent for toa to

hybrid blaze
#

I think cerb is immune to burn so they suck there

fossil flame
#

id imagine its better then vw but maybe worse then dds

hybrid blaze
#

toa is controversial. I think bclaws are really good there, but other people say that vw is much better.

fossil flame
#

they felt really good at 400 toa but they fall off a cliff after that hard

hybrid blaze
#

yeah im thinking of 400rl in particular

craggy granite
#

Voidwaker is probably not saving time to actually get

nocturne ridge
#

for what its worth i probably wont push past 450 almost ever. just want to get the kit then back down to something comfy

craggy granite
#

Like the time to get voidwaker can be better off used as other things

hybrid blaze
#

I think thats true but also its true for almost all items

#

so its not really a strong case against getting something

fossil flame
#

if its bis imo its always justified getting it

#

at some point

craggy granite
#

Burning Claws should be more accessible and faster to get almost always given synapse

nocturne ridge
#

no doubt VW is a good weapon at certain places. i will get it one day just not now 🙂

#

thanks

fossil flame
#

part of it rn is bclaws are just getting a lot of love rn oathplate enhancing as well and bosses working well with claws

#

if they release raids 4 as crush or something it would be a huge w for voidwaker

nocturne ridge
#

The loot from grinding VW itself is also intriguing

magic gale
#

If i have full ahrims do i even need to go for bloodbark?

hybrid blaze
#

nope

craggy granite
#

I guess a lot of TOA it’d be at high enough invos which want Fang either way

#

Basically talked myself into pushing off voidwaker more

nocturne ridge
#

To be fair I don't have any purples from TOA yet so

indigo hollow
hybrid blaze
#

oh interesting, ty!

indigo hollow
craggy granite
hybrid blaze
#

I still think the "VW is good at TOA" argument is at best debatable, up to 400rl or so

fossil flame
#

before toa changes alot of people were camping 400 for a shadow but mindset has shifted doing higher raid lvls now. like imo its worse now because of that for bclaws

nocturne ridge
#

Same boat as me then

hybrid blaze
#

even so I think there's room for debate on the relative merits of vw and bclaws in the 400-450 range

fossil flame
#

I agree ye but i think u cant get bclaws based on guide. there is so much emphasis on doing toa early as possible for lb. ive never been a fan of ppl walking into toa with no bp warped whatnot. but if u get bclaws then ur losing alot of value of getting lb that early imo- and at that point why wouldint u just slot lb with fang

nocturne ridge
#

What do people camp for shadow these days? Invo wise

#

Higher better ofc but what is comfy?

craggy granite
#

If I get to the point where it’s just shadow grinding where voidwaker is good, then those hours doing just voidwaker when I’ve got most everything else feels silly

#

That same time at that point could go into running COX or TOB without a real change

hollow cobalt
craggy granite
#

Does voidwaker get used at Vard still with Oathplate now?

fossil flame
#

people were debating it before oathplate released. oathplate is a pretty nice buff for bclaws idk though but its either or angle for sure

craggy granite
#

Something something join a clan/clan chat right before bowfa so the drop gets broadcasted

And then join up wildy boss masses to work towards VW

#

That sounds efficient to me

frail sonnet
midnight dome
#

You can definitely add some akkha invos too if you want, depends on your tolerance for long raids imo

desert flume
#

not a toa expert but loved my vw grinding for lb/fang

#

made kephri/core easy

#

didn't struggle with no bp/claws

sinful obsidian
#

Any idea why rune pouch is so early? Doing it at mage arena takes a ton of runes which are difficult to fund early

chilly ruin
#

its quick and free at LMS (ish)

loud jasper
#

you beat the current bots in lms by equipping your robes and a crossbow and ice/blood barraging them from 10 tile distance

#

then you stand on the edge of the map and slowly walk towards the safe zone and you dont even need to know how to pk to get points

rustic granite
#

You can kill them more quickly if you swap to a melee weapon and attack on the same tick

loud jasper
#

you can also stall longer by freezing someone and standing under them for the full freeze and repeating

#

if you are one spot from a point threshold

rustic granite
#

Don't do this

#

LMS is very winable

#

And getting fast kills means more loot

#

If you get to the final 1v1 with a rapier VW and ZCB you just win

frail sonnet
#

of course the by far most obnoxious thing ive ever heard you can do in LMS is some ironscape tech

cursive pilot
#

When grinding prayer for piety is the method just d scim green dragons in wildy and use bones on wildy altar or is there an alternative method people typically use?

south fern
#

There are plenty of alternative methods, but they are all significantly worse than the one you described

cursive pilot
#

Thanks

hollow cobalt
#

If you have OK melees from crabs or something you can quest most of it tbh

quiet chasm
#

Dt2 took me from 63 to 70 prayer

hollow cobalt
#

Same

blazing fern
#

why is ags in the retirement section of the pvm chart?

south fern
#

Because it has essentially 0 value in pvm

real yacht
frozen olive
#

deep delves

patent pollen
#

so sad to see arma godsword get its name stolen

#

but ancient godsword

noble shell
#

Hi where is the Ladlor chart for RS3?

hybrid blaze
#

There isn't one

noble shell
#

Okay well make one lol so lazy...

chilly ruin
low stag
#

F tier rage bait lol

#

Too obvious

full panther
noble shell
#

Woor

#

Woot

#

See look guys if you put in a little bit of effort (by asking in the channel) your endeavors will be rewarded (someone else using ai to do the work)

round pond
#

Ai is poggers

robust roost
#

i like the random 2 pieces each of arma and bandos, the staff of light & zaryte bow after chaotics, and all 3 drygore weapons

#

and royal crossbow is there for reasons xd

tacit crow
#

I know nothing but rs3, but my personal favorite is getting the blue scythe at the end and in the middle.

noble shell
#

Classic bowfa before fire cape moment

robust roost
#

if you were trying to do gear efficiently on rs3 im psure you don't even get drygores, maybe 1 for shield swap

iirc nox scythe is just the better t90

#

no chance you spend time farming kk for an occasional t90 auto attack

#

why am i even talking about this

noble shell
tacit crow
noble shell
#

@full panther can you provide the link to where this is hosted on your domain

full panther
#

it was a one-off gag, but i could take it a bit more seriously and make something accessible on ladlorchart.com/rs3

rustic granite
full panther
#

(is there also some things right?)

rustic granite
#

berserker ring early is good but should probably be after crystal staff

full panther
#

ah cool

rustic granite
#

there are multiple BIS items on here

#

I think that's about it

full panther
#

aye

rustic granite
#

I think the first tile should legitimately be qpc lol

#

putting off PVM is even more important in RS3 not only because of skilling helping PVM, but because the longer you wait the more xp you get from dailies/weeklies/monthlies

#

and there's so many quests that as long as you're playing a single digit number of hours per day you can get a LOT of dailies/weeklies/monthlies done on the way to qpc, and that xp + quest xp helps you just go from one quest to another

full panther
#

i do want to mention again that this was intended as a gag, and not an attempt in good faith at accurate progression

rustic granite
#

I wonder how much iaia/premiere jot you'd have to do to get 120 herblore before killing a single boss EguchiThink

noble shell
#

People just can't help themselves (this was my master plan)

full panther
#

with that being said, if i have some input file on the format:

[
  ["item1", "item2"],
  ["item3", "item4"]
]

i could render that

#

so if someone nerds out and makes one like that then im happy to show that lol

rustic granite
#

I've only gone through it on Leagues but I could throw something together

full panther
#

the item or whatever must case-sensitively match the page_name field in infobox item

image.png
chilly ruin
#

bucket mentioned weirdglorp

rustic granite
full panther
noble shell
#

Bucket

full panther
#

the rs3 and osrs wikis now use buckets for get requests

#

very useful

noble shell
#

Can't believe Grey Nine will be spearheading Ladlor's new RS3 branch in conjunction with Amazon studios (Alexa+)

rustic granite
#

what am I doing wrong

full panther
#

eh not sure

#

https://runescape.wiki/api.php?action=bucket&format=json&query=bucket(%27infobox_item%27).select(%27page_name%27,%27image%27).where(%27page_name%27,%27Quest%20cape%27).run()

rustic granite
#

ok I fixed it

nocturne ridge
#

for this section here could someone explain why the treads/vile are not after araxxor with the other doom items?

image.png
#

are they assumed to be dropped at an earlier KC?

full panther
#

the treads impact the grinds, but ayak and gauntlets dont

nocturne ridge
#

and treads "should" be the first item to drop?

#

due to rates

#

idk if i understand the drop rates at doom yet

noble shell
#

Ur overthinking it

#

Just move on when you get the drop

full panther
#

the logic applied is a bit of:

did i get the boots yet? if not , imma keep going

#

got the staff and gauntlets? dam ok, but dont have my boots yet

nocturne ridge
#

gotcha

#

boots good

#

for cerb/araxxor

daring night
#

the vast majority of progression items are rng based, so it's very probable you get some "out of order" even if you're following it perfectly

#

u could try to get a thread and then get a shadow drop instead

tacit crow
#

Yeah, but they all are fairly even if you are consistently deep delving, but cloth/eye being slightly more common because you do more of wave 2/3 than 8

nocturne ridge
#

so what are the most important numbers on the table here? say you get to delve 7 your cumulative chance is 1/179 for cloth then?

image.png
#

and 1/65 is your chance at ANY unique?

noble shell
tacit crow
nocturne ridge
#

ill do some research on doom but sounds like wave 8 is the goal then

hollow cobalt
#

no the goal is as deep as possible

nocturne ridge
#

👍

hollow cobalt
#

getting to 11 is basically twice as good as getting to 8 and much faster than doing 2x8

nocturne ridge
#

so skill gets rewarded. good concept. long grind for me then Noob kekw

tacit crow
daring night
daring night
nocturne ridge
#

after watching a quick guide, is wave 9+ any harder than wave 8? or the challenge is just supplies

hollow cobalt
#

easier since it has less hp but is mechanically the same

rustic granite
#

just have to convert this to the format now

# 
big top bonanza + caches + nemi + woad leaves
jot+daily challenges+troll invasion+wildy flash events+herby werby+tog+penguins+god statues+oyster+forinthry+agoroth+meg
anachronia resources+pof+all penguins
crystal staff+mahjarrat aura
combat wildy events
ports
tog bowl
extinction for Iaia
sunspear (magic)
berserker ring x 10
Quest Cape+cinderbane gauntlets+invention
deathwarden's nexus+conjurer's raising amulet+zorgoth's soul ring
death guard + skull lantern 10
death guard + skull lantern 20
death guard + skull lantern 30
death guard + skull lantern 40
death guard + skull lantern 50
death guard + skull lantern 60
death guard + skull lantern 70+5 piece deathdealer
reaver's ring
underworld grimoire 4
fire cape+tokhaar-kal-mor+igneous kal-mor
death guard + skull lantern 80+5 piece deathdealer
death guard + skull lantern 90+5 piece deathdealer
zemouregal's nexus
omni guard + soulbound lantern + 5 piece first necromancer
shard of genesis essence
scriptures of ful
elite CAs
reaper necklace + amulet of souls + EOF
FSOA+Roar of Awakening+Ode to Deceit+Elite Tectonic+Cryptbloom+Enhanced Kerapac's Wrist wraps+Enhanced Blast Diffusion Boots+Grasping Rune Pouch
TokHaar-Kal-Mej+Igneous Kal-Mej
champion's ring
Ek-ZekKil+Dark Shard of Leng+Dark Sliver of Leng+Vestments of Havoc (including boots)+Enhanced gloves of Passage+abyssal armour spikes alloy
TokHaar-Kal-Ket+Igneous Kal-Ket
Stalker's ring
Bow of the Last Guardian+Blightbound crossbow+Elite Dracolich+Enhanced Fleeting Boots+Pernix Quiver
TokHaar-Kal-Xil+Igneous Kal-Xil+Igneous Kal-Zuk
Channeler's Ring
eof ornament kit
10 EOFs```
noble shell
#

Holy

#

I love GreyAI

#

GreyI

full panther
#

berserker ring x 10
one for each finger? PauseChamp

flat flame
#

need 10 to make the upgraded ring iirc

native ridge
#

RS3 chat my discord is cooked despair

noble shell
#

And one more my CGIM teammate has

#

Soon ...

indigo hollow
rustic granite
#

BIS several places, close to BIS everywhere

#

(across all styles)

tacit crow
#

1,280 rex despair

rustic granite
#

putting it before the necro stuff gives you more time to milk dailies etc

rustic granite
tacit crow
#

Are the respawn timers adjusted on rs

quiet chasm
tacit crow
#

Ah that makes it not bad at all

rustic granite
#

the ladder clickbox is terrible

tacit crow
rustic granite
#

having to click it 1k+ times is the worst part

quiet chasm
tacit crow
quiet chasm
#

i dont use reddit much, sounds valid tho

rustic granite
#

Jad and Zuk being in the same step is very funny though

noble shell
#

Zuk on RS3 is a joke though

#

Hardest content I've done so far is Broken Home challenges...

#

Misclick last tile before using the spell and the monster killed me 🔥

umbral pasture
rustic granite
#

[
["Ringmaster hat", "Diviner's headwear", "Goebie (pet)", "Woad leaf"],
["Legendary jack of trades aura", "Challenge token", "Reward book", "Sack of very wild rewards", "Ancient seed", "Stone bowl", "Penguin spy device", "Statue of Juna", "Sea cucumber", "Oak frame", "Black pearl", "Treasure chest (player-owned port)"],
["Wood (Anachronia base camp)", "Kandarin cow", "Sheldon the Penguin"],
["Crystal staff", "Mahjarrat aura"],
["Combat XP lamp (Wilderness Flash Events)"],
["Scrimshaw of vampyrism"],
["Ornate bowl"],
["Enriched pontifex shadow ring"],
["Sunspear (magic)"],
["Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring", "Berserker ring"],
["Quest Cape", "Cinderbane gloves", "Augmentor"],
["Deathwarden nexus", "Conjurer's raising amulet", "Zorgoth's soul ring"],
["Death guard (tier 10)", "Skull lantern (tier 10)"],
["Death guard (tier 20)", "Skull lantern (tier 20)"],
["Death guard (tier 30)", "Skull lantern (tier 30)"],
["Death guard (tier 40)", "Skull lantern (tier 40)"],
["Death guard (tier 50)", "Skull lantern (tier 50)"],
["Death guard (tier 60)", "Skull lantern (tier 60)"],
["Death guard (tier 70)", "Skull lantern (tier 70)", "Deathdealer hood (tier 70)", "Deathdealer robe top (tier 70)", "Deathdealer robe bottom (tier 70)", "Deathdealer gloves (tier 70)", "Deathdealer boots (tier 70)"],
["Reaver's ring"],
["Underworld Grimoire 4"],
["Fire cape", "TokHaar-Kal-Mor", "Igneous Kal-Mor"],
["Death guard (tier 80)", "Skull lantern (tier 80)", "Deathdealer hood (tier 80)", "Deathdealer robe top (tier 80)", "Deathdealer robe bottom (tier 80)", "Deathdealer gloves (tier 80)", "Deathdealer boots (tier 80)"],
["Death guard (tier 90)", "Skull lantern (tier 90)", "Deathdealer hood (tier 90)", "Deathdealer robe top (tier 90)", "Deathdealer robe bottom (tier 90)", "Deathdealer gloves (tier 90)", "Deathdealer boots (tier 90)"],
["Zemouregal's nexus"],
["Omni guard", "Soulbound lantern", "Crown of the First Necromancer", "Robe top of the First Necromancer", "Robe bottom of the First Necromancer", "Hand wrap of the First Necromancer" "Foot wraps of the First Necromancer"],
["Shard of Genesis Essence"],
["Scripture of Ful"],
["War's medallion (Elite)"],
["Reaper necklace", "Amulet of souls", "Essence of Finality amulet"],
["Fractured Staff of Armadyl", "Roar of Awakening", "Ode to Deceit", "Elite tectonic mask", "Elite tectonic robe top", "Elite tectonic robe bottom", "Cryptbloom helm", "Cryptbloom top", "Cryptbloom bottoms", "Cryptbloom gloves", "Cryptbloom boots", "Enhanced Kerapac's wrist wraps", "Enhanced blast diffusion boots", "Grasping rune pouch"],
["TokHaar-Kal-Mej", "Igneous Kal-Mej"],
["Champion's ring"],
["Ek-ZekKil", "Dark Shard of Leng", "Dark Sliver of Leng", "Vestments of havoc hood", "Vestments of havoc robe top", "Vestments of havoc robe bottom", "Vestments of havoc boots", "Enhanced gloves of passage", "Abyssal armour spikes (alloy)"],
["TokHaar-Kal-Ket", "Igneous Kal-Ket"],
["Stalker's ring"],
["Bow of the Last Guardian", "Blightbound crossbow", "Elite Dracolich coif", "Elite Dracolich hauberk", "Elite Dracolich chaps", "Elite Dracolich vambraces", "Elite Dracolich boots", "Enhanced fleeting boots", "Pernix's quiver"],
["TokHaar-Kal-Xil", "Igneous Kal-Xil", "Igneous Kal-Zuk"],
["Channeler's ring"],
["Essence of finality ornament kit"],
["Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet", "Essence of Finality amulet"]
]

#

@full panther

#

I guess it doesn't include codexes but people can figure them out

full panther
#

these broke a bit but the rest are fine:

Goebie (pet)
Statue of Juna
Wood (Anachronia base camp)
War's medallion (Elite)
Channeler's ring
rustic granite
#

Statue of Juna isn't an item, may need to do something custom for that one

#

ring should be
Channeller's ring

#

try replacing the wood with
Compacted wood

full panther
#

hmm, strange

rustic granite
#

same thing with the medallion, not sure what's wrong

#

oh I have an idea for Juna

#

Sculpting chisel (Guthix)

#

try that instead of the statue

#

maybe you need to escape the parenthesis?

#

since the ones that broke all had them

full panther
#

heres how it is now, with a few missing from misc bugs

#

cool stuff

calm mason
rustic granite
#

idk what that is

calm mason
rustic granite
#

oh right yeah

#

I kind of meant Scripture of Ful to cover "all the pocket stuff you won't always want to use charges on" but that probably fits better

#

so @full panther Scripture of Ful -> Erethdor's grimoire

calm mason
#

Fuls fine for general use and one of the better options for necro and good for melee, but honestly wouldnt seriously use magic/range without a grim, its pure agony

rustic granite
#

yeah everything after necro BIS is kind of a meme anyways

#

I don't think anyone is waiting for BIS for all styles before doing a ranged Kiln run lol

tacit crow
#

We should make another thread for these nerds. I can't be seeing this rs3 blasphemy on my slacking off from work discord channel

calm mason
#

More stuff to read while slacking rollsafe

full panther
tacit crow
#

Can't believe the ragebaiter wins this round

native ridge
#

Guys I actually reckon we don’t need bowfa

#

I think the bowfa agenda is just being pushed by big discord

#

Atlatl is good and moths are efficient

#

If anyone tells me different I’ll grief a random thread over the course of 3 days

daring night
native ridge
#

The king himself

daring night
#

bitches about griefing threads by... griefing threads

#

genius

low stag
frozen olive
#

It's always the ppl you expect the most 😔

blazing fern
#

why is arma godsword in the retirement section of the pvm gear prog?

frozen olive
#

muspah smite skip PauseChamp

full panther
blazing fern
blazing fern
#

either way, appreciate the response

#

and sra

full panther
#

for sure

robust roost
#

there's no way you actually made an rs3 gear chart

drowsy ore
#

Making charts is more fun than playing. Makes sense to me

rustic granite
#

I was playing today too

dusky fog
karmic fossil
#

I recognize berserker ring and fire cape Verypoggers

real yacht
#

Is sailing going to be a skill worth rushing hard right out of the gate I've paid zero attention to rewards and unlocks

rustic granite
#

Well not Mahjarrat Aura and Crystal Staff, those are actual things (before you start doing combat wilderness events)

full panther
#

!8ball .

#

ok stupid, doesnt work here

#

gg

real yacht
daring night
#

but the decent stuff might not be worth the time to train it

#

in terms of wearable gear i don't think there's much of any upgrades as far as i know

#

they're releasing a rapier that is a worse fang

pale fable
#

I'm slightly looking forward to the blowpipes for early game pre-zulrah cause it makes it easier to tag dust devils and the like

#

Def not an upgrade though, just slight QoL

daring night
pale fable
#

Isn't it two extra range?

daring night
#

Ahh yeah

#

That's true

pale fable
#

Dart: 3 tiles, Knife: 4 tiles (can shopscape in thieve's den), BP: 5 tiles I think

daring night
#

They'll be good for that situation but there's goading potions anyways

pale fable
#

On rapid

#

Yeah true

daring night
#

They really were quite conservative with a lot of the stuff they're adding, I think they could have pushed the power levels on a few things at least a little bit further

#

Who's to say if the new BiS fish are even worth getting

#

Anti-bleed tonic might be pretty good

robust roost
#

new bis hard food

#

bis range pot for range-only content

daring night
#

So basically that potion is useful in the case that:

  • You're already divine boosted
  • You just did brew+restore
  • Defence matters very little in the fight

and the benefit you get is an extra 11 hp per dose

pale fable
#

You can brew + brew between attacks then restore after but yea

daring night
pale fable
#

Sorry sara => armadyl brew

daring night
#

sara -> arma -> restore means you're ending up at your base ranged level (roughly)

pale fable
#

Assuming you're starting boosted

daring night
#

Right, but I don't know why you wouldn't be

pale fable
#

Huh

#

112, saradomin brew => 99, armadyl brew => 112

daring night
#

I guess in that case it does have more utility

pale fable
#

I think with armadyl brews you would just alternate yeah. +16 hp +11 hp. (if you can fit in between attacks otherwise just arma brew)

#

They seem nice for inferno you can effectively bring a couple extra ranging potions to speed up pre-50s

robust roost
#

they're gonna be super helpful for entry level inferno speeds

#

probably also the doom speed since you take a ton of unavoidable dmg there

#

and just generally ranged speedruns, they're no tickloss 44hp per slot

#

that you can pair with a sara brew if you aren't piping

hollow cobalt
#

Think there's some very narrow use cases for inferno

#

Kinda cute for jad healer skips for sure

rustic granite
robust roost
#

if i have afk time, i'll damn well camp new bis fish if it's afkable

my current afk time is already doing anglers

noble shell
#

runescape 3

quiet chasm
#

cape acquired, probably should skill and upgrade my mystics now

image.png
rustic granite
#

quiver next?

real yacht
#

When doing hydra with fang what is the best spec wep ?

robust roost
#

boner claws prob

frozen olive
#

lowish def so yeah

#

if nothin else dds like the old days EZ

buoyant creek
#

Why is the blowpipe after all the doom stuff? Isent it extremely usefull for the car phase?

frozen olive
#

its good, but eye and gauntlets are also really good at zulrah

#

its a minimal thing either way tbh, pick whichever you prefer first

quiet chasm
jade grove
#

for the avernic treads part of the progression, would you go out of your way to get pegs, or just put prims and eternals into them?

hollow cobalt
#

Rangers are not on the prog

#

should be in the "retirement home items"

frail sonnet
#

I dont know about every setup but the +1 specifically from avernic (pe) gives tbow 3 maxes with void so if that sounds interesting then yeah

#

altho just do passive meds day 1

jade grove
#

yeah, ty for answers :)

upper pike
#

what are aproximately the players stats at the point in the progression chart it says to get the toxic blowpipe?

lunar lodge
#

99 range, 99 hp?

upper pike
#

because I've been looking at the chart and the [[Rosewood blowpipe]] + addy darts (it's best darts). and the specific scenarios in the upcoming progression chart of where you'd actually use a toxic blowpipe. and most of those scenarios can easily be served with the rosewood blowpipe.

with the doom removing the need to get any trident and the serp helm also not being used.

hollow cobalt
#

No that's just incorrect

chilly ruin
#

rosewood blowpipe is really bad dps wise

hollow cobalt
#

real bp is very good. rosewood bp is not good

upper pike
#

the rosewood blowpipe has identical stats to the toxic blowpipe, with the caveat that it can only use adamant darts, so it's equal (minus venom) to a toxic blowpipe with adamant darts.

neither is stellar in dps with adamant darts, but with your main weapon of choice being the bowfa + crystal, your main uses of the toxic blowpipe are stuff like the small enemies in kephri room, and very low defence enemies

hollow cobalt
#

yes for kephri it's the same shit

#

but for tob/cox/inferno/etc it is not

#

so uh

#

Adamant darts are never used because they are bad

chilly ruin
#

i don't think they had the same stats in the blogposts, but i can see that they do on the wiki pages atm

tacit crow
upper pike
#

no, i just have autism

tacit crow
chilly ruin
tacit crow
#

In other words it's s gonna be really bad

upper pike
#

ok, if it's only +6 ranged str, it's going to be REALLY bad

chilly ruin
#

yeah i see why you reached the conclusion you did on that basis

#

ill update the pages in a sec

hollow cobalt
#

It would still be bad

#

But its megabad

tacit crow
#

Yeah even regular blowpipe with addy darts is bad

#

It is nice for swarming though without having to commit to a blowpipe

chilly ruin
#

pages for all three should have the correct proposed stats

#

but its possible they will be rebalanced further

#

they will all def be worse than tbp tho

upper pike
#

well... in the theoretical scenario where the rosewood bp had stats equal to the toxic bp, but only shot addy darts, it'd be usable enough to skip on the toxic blowpipe and instead bring your eye of ayak, rosewood bp, bowfa and zhasta to toa to get a fang. you'd instead use your bofa on hydra and do cox with a slightly scuffed blowpipe. the only place hard-requiring the toxic blowpipe in its current state where you cannot skip on it is mostly inferno.

hollow cobalt
#

Tob

chilly ruin
#

i'd realistically put tob up there too, and youd be pretty rude almost to try and tob with addy darts

#

i agree that you can do toa without bp tho

upper pike
#

i'd mostly say that you'd move up the toxic bp from post-doom to pre-tob and move inferno to pre-tob and have that be done post-yama and post-hydra

polar void
chilly ruin
#

bp is really convenient though

polar void
#

Do rune knives work?

#

Or do you need drag

upper pike
# polar void What would you use for swarms

we were hypothetically speaking in a world where you'd skip zulrah and get a rosewood blowpipe where the rosewood blowpipe had the same stats as a toxic bp, but only addy darts and no venom, as it was in the wiki pages until recently

chilly ruin
#

bronze knives work

umbral pasture
polar void
#

Ah didnt know that

umbral pasture
#

you just buy em at rogues den

upper pike
#

anyways, back to the drudging that is my 1900th tormented demon kill without any burning claws or synapse, can someone come kill me irl?

edit: i just wanna go learn doom and yama, but tormenteds say no

polar void
tacit crow
#

Also zulrah isn't getting a whole lot faster after you get ayak and gauntlets. Next significant jump is gonna be like shadow/tbow.

upper pike
#

i was never able to pick up the one synapse i got because of a dc.

image.png
#

but here's loot from 1790 tormented demons

image.png
chilly ruin
#

and agree those are nice but not massive

hollow cobalt
#

Pipe is really nice for Colo tbh

upper pike
#

i'm going to get a rosewood blowpipe to yeet in the stacks of mith darts and bring it to tag enemies

chilly ruin
upper pike
#

i'm the type of person who'd get a venator before colo, but that's just my own plans

hollow cobalt
#

If you don't have sgs the spec is very cozy

tacit crow
#

I would pipe spec frems

upper pike
#

venator + sgs

hollow cobalt
#

And with no vene its nice for sure

tacit crow
#

Most wont have sgs for first cape

hollow cobalt
#

Did trident+pipe+nally on the hc

upper pike
#

i tried colo in gridmaster, i died 50 times in gridmaster and threw in the towel. need to get better someday before trying to learn again

chilly ruin
#

for first quiver i think i just had blood fury/fang + brews

polar void
hollow cobalt
#

Also I think the assumption that you'll have rosewood pipe early is kinda sus anyways

polar void
#

It has a high sailing requirement it seems

upper pike
#

Future ironmen will not have 1 sailing with 90s in other stats, they'd be similar stats all cross

chilly ruin
#

thats a good point. its 84 fletching 92 woodcutting

polar void
#

Seems like a lot of effort for a worse blowpipe

chilly ruin
#

and at that point you can use rune darts and a regular bp

upper pike
#

Well... The idea was that it's only stat locked, not rng locked

polar void
#

This is certainly an advantage, but I think it would depend on how key sailing is in progression too

chilly ruin
#

the whole chart falls apart if we rank things on rng

#

especially something as trivially easy to obtain as a blowpipe

upper pike
#

I know, stares at my 1790 tormented demons and 1200 cg with 3 armour seeds and no synapses to be able to use

polar void
#

It'll turn around Alluneve, I'm praying for ya

frozen olive
upper pike
#

I got spooned on the bowfa itself to, at 89 kc.

frozen olive
#

I don't believe you lol

hollow cobalt
#

Oof

polar void
#

Holy hell that is frustrating, there's no way

frozen olive
#

it would be the equivalent of almost 7k kc no enh lol

sly moon
tacit crow