Gear Progression Chart

[frozen olive]

It's 3 str, so depending on other gear it might not be, usually is tho

[tacit crow]

How long does tent take to get? If we factor in completely skipping kraken and use that time towards thieving shards, I can see it making more and more sense

[real yacht]

hmm I like that idea

cause blade is a good chunk better than hally for ultor as well

[hollow cobalt]

I am very skeptical

[desert flume]

how many whips is on rate 85-99 slayer

feel like salad blade is at the very least good dry protection in that regard

[frozen olive]

Few hours, need to do the CAs anyway so

1/400, CAs at least 100 KC, eye is probably disgusting there

[chilly ruin]

it is bis

[hollow cobalt]

Reg whip exists

[desert flume]

do tob teams with regular whip exist

[hollow cobalt]

anyone who thinks there's a difference between reg whip, tent and blade is dumb enough that you're probably better off avoiding them

[tacit crow]

Wait reg whip is only -1 max from tent wtf lmao. I thought it was like 2

[craggy granite]

doing 2t teaks instead of 1.5t teaks over the course of ~75-90 wc gets you the shards you'd need to revert, corrupt blade, and revert back to bowfa

[woven nova]

R u banking at priff with 2t teaks?

[craggy granite]

no, dropping, assuming kingdom for logs

exp rates are very similar

[woven nova]

Oh ok well if u wanna wait like 10 months then sure

U could also just thieve its p quick

[craggy granite]

idk how meaningful the exp rate difference(s) would be

if you're talking about taking construction into account there

[robust roost]

it’s basically the difference of tort > rancour

except rancour isn’t even always a max

[hollow cobalt]

neither is tent

[robust roost]

the difference isn’t huge, it’s mostly a matter of “getting a tent/whip isn’t hard”

[hollow cobalt]

it's just not worth actively grinding em

[robust roost]

tent is 4 str over whip, that should always be a max

except in one specific str breakpoint that i forget the number of

[hollow cobalt]

this is incorrect

it's usually a max

[robust roost]

it’s always a max, in any combination of str gear that you could be wearing

im checking it rn

every single gear setup from like bare min to pre-torva max tent is always a max

and i mean that’s always how it’s been, you get 1 max hit every 4 str bonus

there’s 1 exception ive seen in cox with the lance where you need 5, but other than that ive never had calcs suggest otherwise

[warm owl]

I dont see a nox halbert anywhere in the list? Is it bad?

[hollow cobalt]

it's about as good as a whip

[warm owl]

A tent or normal whip?

[hollow cobalt]

those are about as good

[warm owl]

Yeah dps calc shows with my gear its only 0.2dps better than tent at verzik p3

But it doesnt consume charges so

Im 2/3 anyways so I should grind it right?

[hollow cobalt]

if you want

[radiant pelican]

Where are bclaws used over voidwaker?

In the case where I get my second synapse before my second claw

[frozen olive]

Demons

There's places where it calcs better, like olm hand, vork etc but it's stuff that's so close it's better to use what you take out of the bank first

[tacit crow]

Assuming no dragon claws also?

Id say tob too

[quiet schooner]

duke

[polar void]

Vardorvis, even further if you're rocking any oathplate

[robust roost]

off the top of my head any demon except cerb, vard, vorkath and cox (specifically ice demon with a surge)

vorkath might be iffy since you lose burn dmg to specials

and vw gets a bunch of dmg boosts from salve/slayer

cerb seems to be immune to burn damage

for reasons

[radiant pelican]

Thanks guys that's helpful. Hope i get it before the second synapse to make the decision easier haha

[real yacht]

I clearly dont give Vw enough credit I was very much under the impression that Bclaws were extremely close in most instances

[robust roost]

they are

that's the problem

when you calc bclaws, it's under the assumption that all burn damage always lands

[hollow cobalt]

[robust roost]

there are a lot of random things that nullify burn damage

mainly things that have phases

or things that die before they're finished burning

[real yacht]

Yeah I know thats a problem for Tob

[robust roost]

i lose at least 3 ticks of burn at vorkath even if the spec is thrown at the earliest possible timing

to either of his specials

i don’t remember what the exact damage reduction on acid is

[frozen olive]

greg did a ton of calcs on this a while back

there's prob more but some here #high-level-discussion message

[robust roost]

interesting

[cedar hawk]

.

[indigo hollow]

The difference was very marginal fwiw. Greg found that bclaws would save 40 minutes per 5k kills

[sleek prawn]

So is it still worth going for the VW even?

[full panther]

worth depends on what you want to do, what you are optimizing for, etc

[sleek prawn]

the regular loot is pretty good aswell i assume?

[full panther]

i dont know how one would account for the regular loot, and im not sure it would be worth trying

with that being said, its pretty good yea

red spider eggs are very nice

[sleek prawn]

exactly

its also just a fun wep to use 😄

[full panther]

top 10 most fun deffo

[frail sonnet]

I dont think VW is worth going for in the super efficient sense but its a really cool weapon and the reg drops from the 3 bosses are amazing, so if you like VW, go for it, if not, dont feel pressured to get one as it seems very optional

[full panther]

i admit im not familiar with the extent to how optional it is

[sleek prawn]

great shout

[full panther]

non-negotiable in toa, or is it actually kind of negotiable?

it shares overlapping niche with zcb afaik

[frail sonnet]

did u not see all the talk the past few days about how bclaws are better almost everywhere

[full panther]

i thought the conclusion is that bclaws are weird?

because of phase swaps leading to inconsistencies

[frail sonnet]

depends but toa is one of the places where burn is mostly fine

I think only akkha messes with it a ton

[full panther]

ok so it rivals vw in toa, if not outcompetes it?

and on mid-lvl defence monsters bclaws do better, but is that dependent on all the burns proccing, or even without those too?

[frail sonnet]

they start becoming equal at like 400ish invo and after that its more and more VW advtantage

[full panther]

i see

[indigo hollow]

VW does have a couple of small qualitative things that work in its favor at toa—one being that it’s lower variance (which can matter for stuff like p4, in particular), and the other being that it doubles as a 4t core whacking weapon, potentially saving you an inventory slot. Idk how exactly to factor those into evaluating whether it’s better than bclaws, though.

Bclaws work on akkha enrage, which is nice, and they can be used to instantly make the arcane scarab hop (which VW can too, but for a higher spec cost). I think there are arguments to be made for bringing both

In fact, looking at one of Reynold’s recent VODs, he does bring both in a solo 530

[fossil flame]

imo nex is good reason to get it at some point

toa can be as well but higer raid lvls from personal experince I felt it was viable enough at 400 but 450s and above id rather not bring it apart from arcane

[tacit crow]

Voidwaker grind doesn't speed up a ton from upgrades either. Most likely still gonna Bofa artio down the line.

And your crush weapons for calv/spindle don't get an upgrade until you do nightmare (which you'd want voidwaker for anyway) unless you wanna burn scythe charges on them.

[indigo hollow]

What if I told you that bclaws were also good at Nex

[fossil flame]

how close?

[indigo hollow]

I think VW does win but iirc it’s reasonably close

[tacit crow]

Get some minor gear upgrades to melee gear outside of weapon but you use salve for calv and can only risk so much at spindle

[indigo hollow]

I don’t remember the numbers though

[fossil flame]

vw for supplies is also pretty insane passive advantage though tbh

[indigo hollow]

Might also be affected by scale and stuff like death charge mid fight and spec regen during the down time, which is a bit harder to account for without a specialized sim

[fossil flame]

but to me vw felt much like a heavy detour where as burning claws felt passive with slayer grind/synpases which i valued alot more

[polar void]

VW grind is valuable melee combat XP at the point in the guide it is situated at, worth mentioning

[indigo hollow]

Ok revisiting this in a very simplified form (not accounting for ranging P2 and parts of P4/P5, killing minions, or death charge), they look to be almost exactly equal to me

In max gear, at least

So basically in terms of the theoretical long-term DPS, it’s a toss-up, and the more concrete details of the fight may push it one way or another depending on how many specs you get in practice

[frozen olive]

hardest part is convincing the team you're not trolling

[indigo hollow]

True lol

Ok yeah it’s definitely dependent on some more concrete factors. Running sims at different “scales” (just dividing Nex’s full HP by the number of people) gets different results, but VW seems to be a little bit ahead (like 1%) in most of the cases I’ve looked at

[craggy granite]

I think having both wins for rule of cool 😎

both are good

[magic blade]

I took the path of spooning zcb in a bingo and skipping vw

[real yacht]

conversations like this is why icant justify going back for vw being at ultor/scy portion of the chart lol

[frail sonnet]

kephri tickfix via VW poke!!!!!

[indigo hollow]

P sure keris is just better for that

[frail sonnet]

blue keris maybe

no way yellow

[indigo hollow]

Yes way https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=PenanceMerfolkMalumacs

[frail sonnet]

thats crazy

I thought it only won in ur calc cuz u fed it bis str bonus but its true even in bandos tier gear

altho diff is less small

also true at not 500 and with 20 BGS

[indigo hollow]

Who BGS’s Kephri in a 500 though

[frail sonnet]

bone dagger

back when redxing was a thing tho there was a cool 4t tickfix when setting up redx

vw at least beats any keris there

except black I guess

[indigo hollow]

I don’t think OD comes on for 500s these days

[frail sonnet]

true its like 545 invo

im just used to fighting max def drain kephri every raid because teams

[indigo hollow]

Yeah horn + maul in teams is

[robust roost]

here's an interesting question

if you already have a voidwaker, or burning claws, it is pretty clear that it's not worth going out of your way to get the other one, correct?

what if you did something like this lol

[craggy granite]

you still want dragon pickaxe for toa, though technically can get away with rune pickaxe

and you still want a synapse for other content

[fossil flame]

imo sentiment ive kinda seen bclaws(yama,duke,tob,colo,reg cox more?) voidwaker (toa/corp/nm?) one side seemes more appealing to me

[robust roost]

yeah thats why i only moved the vw up

i think if you ever intend on doing corp vw is mandatory

[craggy granite]

what's the corp strat btw

[robust roost]

spec it to 0 def with dwh/ralos, vw twice fang until you're ~40 hp desert ammy repeat

iirc

or not fang

nox

cause 0 def

[fossil flame]

ye i feel like if i had vw id still want bclaws and they are like 2x as fast to get then vw to

[craggy granite]

i want both overall

[robust roost]

if i had vw already i wouldn't go out of my way for claws, i don't think they'll save 500 tds kills worth of time over vw in a lifetime

[craggy granite]

just that voidwaker can wait a bit imo

[robust roost]

(or 1k if you get none after 2 synapses)

[craggy granite]

(i got spooned claws)

[robust roost]

i was the opposite, had 2 synapses until first claw lol

but at the time we had people like gnomonkey shilling the shit out of burning claws

so i still wanted them

or uh

bone claws xd

[craggy granite]

other than venom, there any other more chill ways to do the 3 td's ca?

[tacit crow]

I have voidwaker already and I had 1 claw at 1,500 KC and 3 synapses. I really wanted burning claws for TOB/Yama prep (pre release). I did 1,000 extra TDs and I'm still at 3 synapses 1 claw. Prob wasted at least 20 hours on that endeavor.

[robust roost]

wanting burning claws for tob is interesting

[tacit crow]

I've given up on it lol

Just gonna use voidwaker/chally

[robust roost]

i calced bclaws vs dds awhile back and iirc found that bclaws are better vs a 0 def bosses if you get at least 2-3 burn damage and you wouldn’t have gotten an extra dds anyway

it’s should be always better vs sote/verzik

and it’s terrible vs bloat

well not “terrible” but probably just worse than chally entry+exit

[radiant pelican]

I know it's not even on the chart, but I can especially ignore nally if I have saeldar right. Idk where nally is used anyways

[chilly ruin]

yeah thats fine

[frozen olive]

some CAs like inferno melee

It's not important tho really

[hollow cobalt]

it has a few niche ca uses, but that's definitely not worth the time

[frozen olive]

I think the really cute use is all melee ggs

But that's dead content

And zulrah

But chally is already gross there

[hollow cobalt]

it's not actually good for ggs though, just lazy

[frozen olive]

Yep

[full panther]

branching behavior on the chart is maintenance nightmare and also hard to make look any decent

one option is if the chart has a config page, that could be achieved to atleast solve the visual part but involve branching

[robust roost]

yeah plus you have to assume people will understand the concept of autonomy

sometimes they get confused if you don't tell them strictly what to do and give them options

which is a horrifically condescending thing to say lol but it be like that sometimes

[full panther]

eh i get it, with some lacking familarity, making choices but not understanding the depths of what they entail can be like daunting

[robust roost]

im kinda used to it atp, i frequent wdr and every raid's gearing section has a table of exactly what upgrades to buy in what order but tons of people regularly still ask "what should i buy next"

suppose it's easier to have someone else figure out what you should do than to do it yourself

[real yacht]

I know the supplies and training is a major portion of vw. Just seems like its major uses are at toa which burning claws do just fine . The big ones are corp and nightmare and those are alrdy grinds someone will do in their own leisure as they give no major upgrades .

[robust roost]

i do think that if you’re gonna do those grinds eventually anyways you may as well get the vw sooner

as was mentioned there’s no efficient crush upgrade until scythe lol

[polar void]

Can someone explain why DA4 is where it's at in the chart?

What is it particularly useful for at that point

[somber dagger]

everywhere where you want to restore

[inland cosmos]

Its generally just a better ornate rejuvenation pool, except the cases where you want to use a teleport in your poh after using the pool

[indigo hollow]

I think the question was less about why DA4 is good and more about why it’s specifically placed between treads/vile transference and the 91-93 slayer drops

[inland cosmos]

hmm that is a good question

I am assuming its because of the 85 prayer step?

that you should get passively from the slayer grind

alternatively some item before then helps with the kq grind

[robust roost]

my guess would be double DC speeding up kph at kq a bit

[robust roost]

is this actually true assuming you need to bank most of the time you're using it? is running to nardah bank faster than poh pool jewelry box to cw

[dusky fog]

How about poh regen to craft cape bank?

Or DA4 if you have it and don’t need stat restoration

1 extra inventory slot though

Might matter depending what you’re doing

[robust roost]

yeah i think for most things i wouldn't want to lose an inv slot to save time on making house teles

nor would anyone likely have 99 crafting so early

at least i dont think someone following the chart would have 99 atp

[inland cosmos]

I did mention poh being better if you have a tp in your poh you want to use after restoring

[pearl veldt]

Don't think that helps, just did the kq grind and you are not killing 2 per minute, and I wouldn't say there is much time during transformation to kill a small kalphite. Those ticks were for eating and sbs

[robust roost]

isn’t there an alt method where you get fairly long trips

maybe extremely outdated

[hybrid blaze]

iron instances hurt a bunch of methods

but you can get long kq trips with the gravestone method

gravestone outside the room

[robust roost]

someone told me about an alt tanking method he used to do 30+ kill trips but if the room is instances for irons that probably isn’t possible

the cerb method for kq sounds pretty fire

[hybrid blaze]

yeah limpwurt got irons instances for kq

[robust roost]

in any trip that goes longer than 1 kill, double dc to kill a bug between kills gets an extra hammer/claw sometimes

seems reasonable

[pearl veldt]

Yeah gravestone tech was really nice, but I was doing about 40 kill trips in an hour

Also it was quite straining on the inventory, I brought minimal switches and at the end of my trip. I could only bring 9 bwans per kill which was not enough a couple of times. Had to do some cringe flinching

Another fun stat I was food piling 300 bwans, which felt crazy to me. Such a food drain

[craggy granite]

how

[pearl veldt]

Are you asking about the gravestone method or why so much?

[craggy granite]

the method to get 300 piled

does it set up a gravestone and then food/supplies get dropped there?

and then you keep piling it from elsewhere to there and it lasts an hour?

gravestone mechanics are something i'm not super clear about, so i'm genuinely curious

[robust roost]

inv space doesn't really matter if you're smuggling in supplies

i think once i finish gm next time i get a kalphite task im gonna try gravestoning a cpl hundred food and taking veng sbs dc thrall with full vw switch

bclaws probably suffer the "losing most of the burn to phase change" debuff

[craggy granite]

Voidwaker or dwh

[pearl veldt]

It does on long trips and you want to keep secondaries

I'm still at a stage where I want those for herb exp

[frozen olive]

are you picking up individual potato cacti

[pearl veldt]

No but kq has like 7 drops I wanted after 30 kills that's minus 7 inv space

With gear and runes and pots that leaves about 8ish for food

[hollow cobalt]

you will have used at least 7 food 30 kills in

[pearl veldt]

Yeah but you deathpile

So loot stays in inventory

[frozen olive]

I think he's saying 8 food isn't enough per kill?

[pearl veldt]

Ofcourse 1 kill takes often 7 food

Sometimes it was not enough yeah

That's the rough part

[frozen olive]

But honestly I think banking after 30 KC is ok

[pearl veldt]

Yeah prob should have done shorter trips

[robust roost]

i think lance should be binned from prog

if scythe is being moved up to the avernic spot

there's no way it's worth grinding hydra claw for what is essentially ~99 solos worth of cox points

or i'll be generous and say ~160, that's 5 drops worth and you'll probably have both scrolls by then

lance even over reg whip saves like 40s per raid

[fossil flame]

feel like u shouldint stay for both scrolls regardless augury is really mid i feel like

might be a hot take but ye

[robust roost]

depends who you are

if you can do comfy infernos you can skip cox entirely, but i imagine augury is there for the same reason as rigour

50+ having augury to start is more comfy

but like if we’re going purely off dps gain rigour is fairly minor as well, if you’re good at inferno it won’t make much of a dif

[fossil flame]

i mean its just for tob as well like augury really doesint matter at all in this sort of context

getting rigour makes a decent impact for bp

feel like rigour is enough for ppl as well for first cape

[robust roost]

if you’re sending tob atp in this gear prog your freeze gear probably sucks anyways

well that’s not true

[fossil flame]

if u really wana freeze u should get like sotd or something 15%>>>>>> 1% dmg

and u can just avoid doing role to begin with

[robust roost]

ye you probably won’t have a 15% staff or more than 1 virtus piece

so you’ll be dps every raid and augury will be useless

but hey if you get sotd on the spear grind and virtus top or legs

pretty good vibe

[hollow cobalt]

it's good to be able to do multiple roles if needed

purging staff is 10%, that's fine

[robust roost]

with the mage bonus from conflictions and treads now you probably don’t even need augury to land freezes ever

and if you’re using purging it has 38 accuracy so honestly

fuck augury

[hollow cobalt]

with either a mage pot or the titans prayer, it should be fine in either void or non-void yeah

[robust roost]

i was hoping there would be a setup that does it without having to bring 1% mage armor

a non-void setup specifically, to get the extra 2% from confliction instead of void mage helm

i think this setup does it with some kind of mage lvl boost

in reality you probably just take void occult cape

works with no boost

[hollow cobalt]

cape doesn't really do anything for you there

[robust roost]

if you want to skip a prepot you need something in addition to occult

[hollow cobalt]

Looks like titans prayers should do it without any prepot

[robust roost]

in mage void you still need +61, that setup without cape only has 60

oh actually

[hollow cobalt]

https://i.imgur.com/70mTGPm.png

[robust roost]

infernal cape switch

gets you to 62 lol

61*

[real yacht]

Looks like time to get back to pest control

[terse matrix]

Wait, why is scythe moved on the chart ?

[frozen olive]

Nothing past avernic really adds much to tob, you can already do it pretty efficiently.

Whereas scythe is pretty beneficial going forward

[terse matrix]

but scythe does helm in cox ?

im this deep into the chart so probably doenst even mather that much anymore

[frozen olive]

Yes it helps at duke and cox of what's left there, and I guess technically Yama for tick fix/godfly

[terse matrix]

scythe over emberligth at duke ?

[frozen olive]

Yes

You can bring ember for the 4t enr

[quiet schooner]

Duke enrage lasts so short with scythe it doesn't even matter

[full panther]

i see this vision, but this angle makes me uncomfortable lol

expected purples both scrolls: 5.175

expected just rigour: 3.45 (duh)

[normal prism]

Is lance only used pre scythe?

[full panther]

it depends if you keep doing slayer

i think a player very reasonably would want both a lance or a scythe

[normal prism]

Yeah I agree

[full panther]

I've been trying to think a bit about the scythe lance predicament a bit, and the only calcs that were simple to produce here for me is:

scy before lance (use scy on boss instead of fang): saves four hours assuming you want both
delay lance (use whip at cox, assumes 40s timeloss): loses about 1.1 hours for rigour, or 1.7 for the scroll pair.

anyways yeah it seems obvious even assuming you want both lance and scythe, moving last to post-scythe is the correct move if insisting on keeping it

[robust roost]

even with metal drags blocked?

[full panther]

reg blue dragons, vorkath, etc

metal drags being blocked also depends on clogging or not

[robust roost]

i don’t have metal drags blocked for all of these reasons but i didn’t think any of these things were considered ngl

[full panther]

they're not per se. the only assumption of the chart is "i want all these items"

as for why those items exactly, comes down to if theyre over some arbitrary niche threshold

i see an argument either way for lance

[craggy granite]

Leave Lance with ferocious gloves and just note which ones can be skipped in that additional info if you want

if you get lance while going for gloves, congrats

[full panther]

noting that something can be skipped i think is not the move

[craggy granite]

you put the skip option

[full panther]

yep, it was requested, and it behaves the same for every node

[craggy granite]

yeah, i meant that it might be the effective use case for it

i don't know if it's worth

[full panther]

its use is neither encouraged nor discouraged

it just kind of exists for those who want it

[quiet schooner]

u can just color borders differently for core and optional progression points

it makes it very easy and intuitive

[polar void]

Wait, are people suggesting to delay lance until after scythe?

[craggy granite]

more that lance isn't worth removing from chart probably, but scythe can replace it

cause either lance or scythe get you to cox

[fossil flame]

scy is definitely alot better then lance for cox its not just a alternative

[craggy granite]

personally i'm leaning towards early tob for avernic and the coming back after gloves for scythe and not bothering with lance

but i think that at that point there are so many variations for how to make that progress and they're all probably optimizations of a few hours in the grand scheme of the hundreds of hours

[polar void]

If you were deadset on having a megarare, yeah I guess just grind hydra for fero gloves then camp tob for scythe, maybe if you're lucky you'd get lance while grinding gloves

[robust roost]

gloves are a bigger 1h melee upgrade than avernic and probably faster to get

does avernic even give a fang max at hydra in that gear?

the main adv to camping tob for scythe first i think is you can revert bowfa for it and skip everything whip related

[craggy granite]

thats my main thought

[polar void]

You still need rancour, you'll have plenty of whips

[fossil flame]

id have to double check calcs but scy i think is like 10% better then lance on olm and blade to lance is like 13-14% its pretty big imo for cox

[polar void]

By that point

[robust roost]

do you still do abby demons if you’re optimizing slayer xp

[polar void]

It cannot be worth skipping them

I'm going with definitely, esp considering decent heart rate

[robust roost]

if you’re going purely for heart you don’t do abbys anymore ideally

they kinda got replaced with araxytes

[craggy granite]

question: why not venator bow before heart?

[robust roost]

but that’s a post-this point discussion

[polar void]

It wouldn't be purely, just taking it into account

[robust roost]

venator bow for heart, psure

[craggy granite]

venator bow is late in chart

[robust roost]

they’re in the same block and you would get venator specifically for the heart grind

venator isn’t that useful for anything else really

[craggy granite]

i thought it's good for some slayer options

and also if grinding collo

[robust roost]

nothing important to grind from whisp, not super significant for Colo, will be worse than barraging for slayer

it’s nice for colo but it’s not “do 500 muspah kills without quiver” nice

[craggy granite]

i figured you'd want heart before tbow + elder maul?

[robust roost]

for what?

[craggy granite]

idk

[chilly ruin]

heart isnt very relevant for cox

[robust roost]

heart is just a prepot really

[chilly ruin]

its a prepot sometimes for like 1 room

[robust roost]

it’s great for some post endgame grinds

whisperer, gwd

pnm

[chilly ruin]

unrelated, why is greater demon extension where it is? for hasta grind? you dont touch tds til several steps later

[robust roost]

probably for zammy yeah

i’d probably still extend them even if it was just for hasta tbh

[chilly ruin]

warped sceptre is in the same block, i assume for toa, but i wonder if thats really worth it now

[robust roost]

probably

without it, you’d have to give up thralls to be able to complete the raid

and especially with how early your gear is, you’re probably looking at a pretty substantial time loss

[fossil flame]

ive never been a big fan of the early toa route tbh

i do think lb is good though but u also have to do 5grinds and toa scuffed just to get it

[robust roost]

idk how much time 2x more often chally during barrage slayer is saving

but it’s probably a lot

[fossil flame]

idt its even saving time for slayer i thought its mostly for passive melee xp

but idk

theres alot of ways to easily get cmb xp now though through pvm to obv still helps to start grinds with better stats

[robust roost]

lb also gets used for the doom grind

not that scobow spec is insanely good or anything but it’s free dmg vs an otherwise mostly dead ring slot

[fossil flame]

i think bring is good sub obv not ideal but ye like in guide before u were doing toa with warped sceptre and scuffed stats

[robust roost]

well back in the day you had to actually mage things

so it was kinda cringe

now it’s just one phase of p2

“things” being akkha xd

[quiet schooner]

early toa for fang feels outdated now

[robust roost]

it’s for lb

[radiant pelican]

This discussion has me wonder. What is the best megarare? Shadow has a slight downgrade with eye. Tbow has a larger downgrade with bowfa. Is scythe the best?

[quiet schooner]

shadow is still the best

[fossil flame]

ye fang was moved up way later now near hydra already

[robust roost]

fang comes after you have eye and bp

[hybrid blaze]

It's shadow

[quiet schooner]

it changes how u play the game completely

it is still not even close

for things u would tbow u still ranged before

for things u scythed u still meleed before

but shadow lets u mage things u wouldnt have before

[robust roost]

including things you would tbow or bowfa, like every gwd boss xd

[fossil flame]

idk i feel like with eye tbow is pretty good

eye is insane

id still pick shadow but feel like its close

[robust roost]

tbow is genuinely mid

like i think it’s overpriced as shit lol

just because it’s ludicrously rare

[quiet schooner]

it is the r arest megarare

tbow is really good where it is good tho

[robust roost]

it’s really really good in a few places but then in some other places where you would use it, it’s like…barely an upgrade

although just maiden comes to mind really

[quiet schooner]

delve muspah hydra are places im thinking

[robust roost]

all real

[quiet schooner]

it is also miles above other options for awakened leviathan im pretty sure

[fossil flame]

cox tob toa nex

alot of places tbow would prob be 15-25% better for me apart from tob

[quiet schooner]

barely makes a dif at toa i think

[fossil flame]

ye and toa

but still good for it

[quiet schooner]

if u have shadow tbow is like a p2 weapon

[robust roost]

toa it’s extremely small, cox it’s only a huge deal in cm, nex minions it’s good (please stop shooting nex with tbow), tob it’s okay but more qol than anything

[fossil flame]

im curious about shadow tob but seems so much ppl dont want u to do it that it prob wont be practical for me

[quiet schooner]

its good at cms

i odnt think u use it much in regs

[robust roost]

you bow the head

[fossil flame]

muta vasa olm head pmuch its prob a big upgrade

[robust roost]

and big mut

and the rope mager and vasa

[quiet schooner]

is it better than shadow on big mutta in regs?

[robust roost]

by miles

cm just adds a bunch of rooms you’re forced to do where bow gets a bunch of dmg from increased magic lvls

[fossil flame]

its like 25% better in regs for big muta

[robust roost]

suddenly it’s good at shamans and mage vang

im not actually sure which is better between shadow and tbow in cm mystics

it was bow before delve, but maybe gauntlets made mage better

[quiet schooner]

shadow is much better on mystics i think

its closer in trios

but its like not close in solos

[chilly ruin]

you can cast undead grasp, its only for monkeys and p2

its not ideal but its workable. idk if you can reach monkey oneshot with reasonable gear at that point

[polar void]

Lightbearer is a game changing ring, really hard to not argue to grab it when gear hits a certain level. Not to mention thread

If you're in ToA, going for lb, you also have the chance to hit both shadow/fang, strong items, I'd say ToA until LB is still in a solid position on the gear chart. It is really key for doom too

[robust roost]

i'm actually surprised people aren't asking why scythe is coming before shadow

i didn't think it was common knowledge that scythe is actually pretty good at wardens with oathplate

[chilly ruin]

huh is that really the intent

it beats like, bowfa?

[robust roost]

yup

barely beats eye in full virtus

[chilly ruin]

https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=GuideTalismanEssence assuming max bgs

[robust roost]

but you probably only have 0 or 1 piece of virtus atp anyway

[frozen olive]

another fun one where max treads gets you the max lol

[robust roost]

the range setup is masori bp, neither range setup has pegs attached but they do give both of them a max hit

[chilly ruin]

real consideration tho twinflame max mage earth spells

[robust roost]

nah twinflame is ultra shit

psure it loses to ayak literally everywhere except like...ice demon

lol

[chilly ruin]

yea im just kidding

[tacit crow]

I feel like all those DPS differences are like 1 to 2 hits max on a warden phase.

[chilly ruin]

its not good

[tacit crow]

Really not worth planning around that. The purpose of scythe moving isn't to use scythe at TOA

[frozen olive]

also bellator is better in that calc

[robust roost]

true

but wyd with bellator before shadow LMAO

gim moment

[frozen olive]

tbf I'll be getting it with eye

I did finish gm speed last week with it

[robust roost]

what the heck

bellator is so bad though why do you even want it 😭

i dont remember the last time i actually used it anywhere

[chilly ruin]

wardens toa obv

[frozen olive]

its not good, ofc
I'm just over 2x rate at shadow and anything than to go back to toa

[robust roost]

xd

[frozen olive]

maybe a few more updates

[chilly ruin]

did u know my gim got shadow first purple

[frozen olive]

I didn't ask, that's for sure

[chilly ruin]

[robust roost]

here's 400 enrage numbers with no drain

the mage gear has magus though so that's probably fake

think you just bowfa xd

[tepid goblet]

going from ghommal hilt 3 -> 4, is this an "assumed" progression or something you should sidetrack for?

i'm already at 85 slayer at this point and i've just been picking up CAs when i'm doing the content anyway

but still 200 or so pts short

[frozen olive]

thats elite right

[tepid goblet]

yea

[frozen olive]

you should sidetrack before a ton of slayer

[tepid goblet]

okay sweet

[frozen olive]

maybe can hold off until raxytes/smokes

but absolutely should have by then

[tacit crow]

Every bit of sidetrack is worth it for superiors.

[tepid goblet]

i'll start chipping away at it then

1/150 is quite significant

[tacit crow]

You can definitely get close to 200 from some random bosses you'll never touch again.

[chilly ruin]

it's a pretty fun sidetrack imo and good chance you learn some things from it about content you haven't done before. obv thats not really an efficient argument but it's still a nice opportunity

[frozen olive]

CAs one of my fav things ngl

gets away from the tedium of doing bosses the same way

well, some of them anyway

[chilly ruin]

[frozen olive]

that one is really fun

unironically

properly I mean, not tank and click brew

[chilly ruin]

i sent like 2 attempts and had tragic deaths and left it there lol

[tacit crow]

I did a mix of tank and click brew and avoid damage when I saw it

[polar void]

That's a hilarious CA

[frozen olive]

It's great I wish they did more random shit like that, it's kinda been boring last few bosses

[polar void]

What, you don't like kill counts and PERFECT kill?

[frozen olive]

speed doom is kinda interesting, since there's a lot you can do to save time
melee doom also cool

but yeah it's all kinda the same

yama was really bad

[chilly ruin]

pizza yama seemed fun but was very cheeseable

which isnt the worst

[frozen olive]

yeah it was very free lol

there's 4? perfection there which all culminate into 1 CA basically

[chilly ruin]

most gear limited CAs i think i have enjoyed

[frozen olive]

limits, not checks, usually good

[chilly ruin]

kq is an obvious exception but that's kind of w/e

[frozen olive]

the 20 min thrall kq/hydra probably not in the same vein

I'm lucky I got axe going for set

[chilly ruin]

yeah uh i saved that one and then i deironed and it became free lol

and a while til i do that on new iron

[tacit crow]

Overcoming CA despite the gear are some of the most rewarding ones.

Scobo delve 16 vs. tbow/ZCB delve 16 being the most recent addition

[viscid lark]

zcb probably hurts more than it helps for the long trip CA

the hp cost, plus the opportunity cost of not having a healing spec really adds up

i would always be low on supplies around 15, then i swapped out zcb for bp and had half my brews on w15

[tacit crow]

HP is not an issue whatsoever for delve 16

[robust roost]

most perfect ca's are cool in theory

some are very stupid

primarily the perfect tob bosses

because the "optimal" way to do the bosses is to use hp as a resource for more damage, since you restore between rooms

[frozen olive]

you don't like freezing nylos at verzik?

[robust roost]

i certainly like it less than i do freezing nylos at nylos

but im not allowed to do that either

:))))

[craggy granite]

It could be worth getting an estimated amount of charges used on arclight to get double death charge

Cause double death charge with arclight without Emberlight at Yama before voidwaker might be worth doing

[drowsy ore]

Estimated shards usage is not hard to work out since it only uses charge on successful hit

So you just halve max hit, and then however much damage you deal per kc with arclight divide by that half of max hit

[craggy granite]

Kk, I’ll estimate that vs someone in max stats and see what comes out

at 40% contrib and 50 max hit, that's 40 charges per kc, so around 4000 total

So I'm going to say that's approximately the ceiling

cause combination of purging staff, defense specs not hitting, people having better gear, etc.
and max hit is above 50

synapse -> arclight at yama assuming on rate for synapse, should be just short of max infusion

td's until single synapse, arclight at dg's until 60%, otherwise get torture without arclight, then yama for double death charge

[craggy granite]

i think generally speaking that should avoid time getting excess shards, and gets emberlight active

if scobow + arclight is the way to go at td's, then probably worth doing that for both synapses to avoid needing more shards

[craggy granite]

i used 5,500 charges for my 500 td’s, so that’s like 16.5 shards
It’s about 3500-4000 arclight charges 11-12 shards there

And needs apparently 9 per zenyte from what people said

double death charge would help with voidwaker and toa, and it uses fewer charges than a synapse, so using arclight instead of emberlight could be worth

If it doesn’t need a synapse (I think others said the others can use purging staff), then can send it early

tl;dr
Double death charge from Yama uses fewer charges than a synapse and can be gotten without grinding slayer, might as well send it after Torture and just barrage for >30 ancient shards if needed

Gets a perma upgrade immediately that also helps with the rest of slayer, and just needs one zenyte there

[polar void]

You don't need both arclight and purge for Yama?

Oh nvm I had to reread your thesis

Well, double death charge wouldn't assist voidwaker grind (assuming no rev weapon) too much because you don't have a decent spec weapon for that grind though, do you?

Arkan blade? Dwh for spindel maybe yes

[craggy granite]

d mace/dwh/arkan blade, plus it’s going to be useful while getting charges because chally during slayer, and going into toa gets to be used there

[craggy granite]

It’s basically Emberlight isn’t that important until doing like Cerb and/or tower nechs, so can go for second synapse after double death charge and use arclight to go scobow-> doom without losing too much

[robust roost]

dmace is a pretty good spec weapon when your mainhand is only hasta

for calv anyway

spindel has a lot more def so, uncertain

if you happen to get dwh before hasta/zenytes that’d be good at spindel

emberlight makes a bigger deal for cerb than anything, the stab bonus is by far the biggest dif between the two

[polar void]

Whatever piece of pvm content spoons you first is the best to start with imo

[real yacht]

Seems to be the case

But dwh at spindel seems like a play didnt think of that

[crude wharf]

why is fire cape so late in the chart?

[chilly ruin]

quicker to get with good range gear, doesnt speed up previous melee training much at all

[hollow cobalt]

All the untradeable capes are basically "this is as late as you can put it off without trolling"

[hybrid blaze]

This is literally true but misses some nuance imo (sorry): quiver and infernal cape are great if you can do them earlier. Fire cape doesn't gain much if you rush it, and you kind of need to do a low level melee cape to even come out ahead

its just a very popular but not very strong item, and a lot of people do shit like 2hr+ fire capes or die a couple times to jad hands. That's so slow that it makes it not worth it going early

[hollow cobalt]

At the end of the day if you have done jad before, doing a scuffed 90 min ysb cape vs doing it later with bowfa, the difference in time is gonna be on the order of minutes, at which point just do what you want

If you have never done jad before, it's probably not a good time

[hybrid blaze]

Which, poetically, is kind of the opposite of how people treat delaying jad

[radiant pelican]

I'm getting to the point of yama double death charge and I had just a few questions for the 100kc. Solo or duo? Emberlight/bandos + purging/bloodbark? Any method I can Google and replicate? Thank you

[real yacht]

Gregfly is my preference for solo

Duo is probably best for double DC tho since it just needs 100 kc and dossier to drop

[frozen olive]

Duo is gonna be better for spec consistency, less banking, etc
You'll want to learn a p3 method, dono/greg are fine
You want 20% mage dmg including purging, which is usually occ and torm

[radiant pelican]

I have conflicted but dont have occult yet per the chart

Do I learn these methods solo and then hop in duos?

[frozen olive]

Solo definitely harder, nice thing about duo is you often kill before p3 orbs

Either is fine

[robust roost]

does that 4 way include prayers or no

brain

does that 20% include prayers

wait what am i asking ive done like 1k yama lol

if occult + torm is enough, confliction + augury should also be enough

[frozen olive]

I definitely like 3 way vs 2 way aug

[robust roost]

but tbf

in the 300 ish recent kills ive done ive had to stop to kill donofly flares maybe 3 times total, any others we simply skip or glyph

i prefer 3 way but if it's not an option then just take 2 way aug for the sub-1% chance that you actually have to kill flares

[radiant pelican]

Purg + conflicted + treads + ma2 cape will be 20%

[robust roost]

if you're doing any fly method in a duo with a landed hammer/maul, you should almost always out-dps them p3

oh wait

true it's still 3 way

lol

treads exist

even with 1% treads it's still 3 way

that's a good excuse to get treads first actually

[polar void]

small question, is it possible ladlor to make the chart color the tile differently as well when you choose the 'skip' option rather than only having the triangle in the corner?

would make it much easier to navigate the chart and circle back to the skipped steps

[full panther]

certainly possible yes

[hollow cobalt]

to me a skip is "this item has been replaced by something better, there is no point going back for it"

[polar void]

not necessarily, i do skip steps with the intention of returning to them at some point (some of them)

[full panther]

what color would you find suitable shimbles?

[polar void]

🟠

[full panther]

noted

i have to prioritize some other things than implementing this atm, but ill make note of it being requested and adding it to the backlog

[polar void]

cheers mate

why was rite of transference put in same quadrant as treads

[robust roost]

because there's like...no actual difference which one you get first

[polar void]

also, proposal here, should antivenom+ be reccomended at delve step?

[robust roost]

in terms of which one helps the other more

[full panther]

their sequencing relative to eachother had negligible considerations, and generated a lot of discussion in spite of that

[robust roost]

if you check the changelog it'll usually explain why something was moved or removed

at the bottom

[polar void]

if i already possess BP im sure that rite of transference goes up in value relative to tread grind

[hollow cobalt]

sure,

[craggy granite]

I think that getting double death charge pre-TDs would’ve been more optimal doing it after zenyte(s)

Cause it’d help directly with slayer the rest of the way, it’s a consistent grind in terms of time invested, and you get good exp rates too

Having more chally specs for slayer is always good, puts it before toa, and with dwh has its use in wildy

Even for other options, gives Arkan Blade more value

[austere valley]

@full panther any chance of an option where checking things off the list completes them and removes them/minimizes them or something? Maybe like after you complete an entire line it goes under a "completed" section, and the completed section has a toggle to hide it or something

I'm sure it's been requested before but ye

[full panther]

this is the first to my knowledge!

[austere valley]

Oh interesting

[full panther]

again can add that to the backlog as something that has been shown interest for

[austere valley]

Aight cool

Would be kinda nice with the mobile UI since it starts at the top and you scroll down, would make it so the stuff you still haven't gotten is right at the top instead of stuff you've completed

Not sure if people using the desktop UI would really care as much

[full panther]

i have been playing around with the idea of some configuration panel that can tailor the chart a bit

[austere valley]

Ah nice

[full panther]

a "remove when completed" would be a simple addition to that

[austere valley]

For sure 🙂

Cheers

Add an animation where the item explodes when you check it off for bonus points

Gotta give the kids their dopamine hits

[hollow cobalt]

Doing yama with 0 synapses is rough unless you've got a duo willing you carry you

[robust roost]

it's probably pretty low value for TDs, since i think the best spec weapon you have atp is damage-reduced arkan blade

and the rest of slayer is mostly just barraging

[round pond]

But then there's the issue if someone accidentally clicks something they didn't complete, how would they reverse it

[full panther]

keep some "last removed" cached in local storage, and keep an undo button

[frozen olive]

It's over, start a new account

[full panther]

and if you wasted that cache ye hard reset all

[karmic fossil]

Could have a “view hidden” toggle that makes them all visible and lets you uncheck them

Or I guess at that point it’s the same as you turning off the hide when completed option nvm

[radiant pelican]

I disagree with this. If you're gonna go back to it then just don't check it off

[radiant pelican]

I agree with this

[radiant pelican]

This will destroy the aesthetics lol

[austere valley]

To my knowledge the "skip" option was my idea as well and people made fun of me for it

I'm taking credit until someone disproves it

Why did I call it "opt out" tho, am I stupid?

[full panther]

the skip thing got implemented because someone made a merge request on github

that someone being leonprz

[polar void]

Ladlor can choose the right color

I figured it would make it simpler to identify which ones you skipped

[craggy granite]

It’s mostly that first synapse being scobow -> doom means you can get double death charge without Emberlight, so that lets you get that upgrade sooner. Technically it skips the req for a second (grinding Yama for oathplate probably wants a second synapse)

But all in all, if Doom before Cerb, breaking the req for second synapse saves a lot of TDs there

It is lower dps, but it’s still getting you the double death charge

And putting it before voidwaker + toa means double death charge is unlocked there, and having double death charge pre-85 slayer for sbs Abby demons would also be the goal there

[robust roost]

sbs abby demons? as in you're sbsing every barrage? because that's a barrage task

you wouldn't melee abby demons

[frozen olive]

It's a real thing yes, only for true sweats tho

[craggy granite]

I thought it was the meta to do that cause otherwise you’re leaving a lot of the prayer exp to go to waste

[frozen olive]

It's meta yes, most ppl just take the L on the prayer there in value of the lower intensity

[hollow cobalt]

with ember it's not crazy tbh

[craggy granite]

6-10 hours to do double death charge with arclight and get 750k melee exp if you have the shards already just seems worth not delaying

Cause it’s generally useful and a perma unlock

[hollow cobalt]

if you have someone willing to carry you sure, have fun

[craggy granite]

I think even with first synapse running it with staff and getting it done out of the way makes sense

Just I don’t think two before Yama for double death charge is required

[hollow cobalt]

thought you started this by talking about doing it pre-tds

[craggy granite]

It also doesn’t sound like you’re getting hard carried bc people have been saying purging staff doesn’t come up

[hollow cobalt]

where did you get a synapse from?

[craggy granite]

I’m saying it can go more clearly before second synapse, arguably before first

[hollow cobalt]

before first you are definitely just leeching and need a friend who's willing to do it

[craggy granite]

Main thing is that right now it’s expecting two synapses before double death charge

And I’m mostly pushing that doom + Yama don’t need to go after two synapses

[hollow cobalt]

what does double dc early even get you?

[craggy granite]

And Emberlight is mostly a before Cerb unlock

toa + voidwaker specs

Doom

[hollow cobalt]

doesn't do shit at doom without spec weapons

which is why they're on the same tier

[craggy granite]

Elite CAs

[hollow cobalt]

just don't think it matters much at all for any of the stuff between synapse 1 and doom

if you have friends who are willing to pot it, you can do it earlier

just like you can go do tob with a dscim and ysb if you want

[robust roost]

perhaps, maybe with goadings it's not super annoying either

but if you had ember that should mean you already have 2 synapses and we avoid this convo tbh

unless you'd stay at tds for bclaws even after 2 synapses, i wouldn't personally (assuming already owning vw)

[radiant pelican]

I'm having this conundrum right now. 2 synapse, only one claw, have a VW, 90 slay. May just stay with TDs until 91 slay and then give up and go to cerb->arax->smoke->hydra

(don't tell me turael skipping is bad, turael skipping is goated and I will always do it lol)

[robust roost]

turael skipping is good

turael boosting is outdated

[frozen olive]

Skipping is definitely not good when you're at 90 slayer

You should still value xp at that point to get to the uniques

[radiant pelican]

Idk, as someone who's went 2k dry for two synapses, I'm glad I'm at 90 slayer instead of 95 slayer. But just personally I don't value post 99 slay xp

Plus with how good turael skipping is now..

Def not efficient xp wise but I like doing it

[blazing fern]

when was scythe moved up and what was the reasoning?

is quite a significant jump forward

[frozen olive]

It was placed too far in the first place, there were pretty minimal increases from the upgrades past the avernic step

[blazing fern]

if scythe is being moved that far up you can almost make the argument to just not grind dhl, no?

[frozen olive]

Correct

[blazing fern]

that's interesting. so it's not any update im missing right? just the realization that scy should be moved up

[frozen olive]

Basically yeah, there's some above and below this on scythe discussion #1229571283428053002 message

[blazing fern]

interesting, thanks for linking. just caught up on all of this. makes sense

was thinking the same that cox prayers could be removed in that case as well

not removed, but pushed back to somewhere maybe between magus/shadow

and inferno to right after bp, but i undestand why it's placed post rig

[frozen olive]

I really like rigour, but I'm biased, you pipe a lot and that adds up.
I'm not sure what mystic vigour does for breakpoints for freeze roles but I'm sure it's workable.
Probably gonna have trouble finding teams if you walk in with them, but I'm sure you can find more flexible/like-minded ppl as well

[blazing fern]

ur not wrong

in my experience the breakpoints with mystic vigor were tough as freezer, but yeah as long as u got a team thats cool with it ur fine (realize that's not the norm)

also coping from 300 cox no rigor yet, so i just skipped a few gear prog items around there

but as a first time caper / not giga gamer or anything, inferno, quiver, etc was tough but def doable with titans prayers

iirc deadeye is only 5% worse than rig, mystic vigor maybe the same vs augury

[strange nexus]

I dont know if this is true. Jyhys plank was from tura skipping for xp

[frozen olive]

Iron skillcord doesn't like it and they're all about post max xp #517608414910873601 message

[strange nexus]

Yeah id imgaine being clue locked would provide a lot of xp that tips the scales for example I dont think he had to do much melee slayee

None the less with the changes its probably quite close

[strange nexus]

Can probably just bring a ancient book and drop it after madien would have to calc for your exact setup

[radiant pelican]

Sorry I don't understand this comment at all lol

[strange nexus]

Jyhy probably the most efficient player in the game died yday tura skipping for xp

https://fxtwitter.com/Life_OSX/status/1967582777840472275

Life (@Life_OSX)

Guy in a PK disc I'm in just killed rank 1 ironman clogs in high risk world at Ghorrock tele..
︀︀
︀︀Ouch, I hope you got some dupes king
︀︀
︀︀#osrs #runescape

**💬 56 🔁 12 ❤️ 456 👁️ 180.5K **

FxTwitter · Sep 15, 2025, 1:34 PM

[inland cosmos]

That is something

Accidental tp or just being too comfortable?

[strange nexus]

Yeah he hopped to 365 for a free world at abby demons then clicked ghorrock tele instead of lesser and got instant tbed

[inland cosmos]

Ah

Rip

[sharp hazel]

Why does that chart say to get the royal titans prayers after cg grind like it's super easy boss and helped me like crazy at cg

[strange nexus]

Bowfa saves more time at titans then prayers do at cg.

Especially considering the chart skips optional upgrades like moons gear for example

[quiet schooner]

They did not help u like crazy at cg lol.

[hollow cobalt]

But why

Why on earth would you remove the cox prayers

[polar void]

That is incredibly sad

Imagine how he is feeling rn

The "pls I pay 3b from alt" is crazy though lol

[hollow cobalt]

Tbh the stuff he lost is basically nothing compared to the length of his current grinds lol

[dusky fog]

The cannonball loss is crazy

[hollow cobalt]

Can make like 200k cballs in the time it takes to get +clog

[full panther]

losing the bp kit kinda sucks if he doesnt have a replacement

[dusky fog]

With the amount of clues he’s done, I bet he does but ya who knows

I wonder how many of the items he lost he already had dupes of 😂

[hollow cobalt]

Everything except torva legs it looks like

Unless he dropped dupes

[strange nexus]

AFAIK he dropped all his dupes that he lost

[dusky fog]

Fair enough, no one expects to unintentionally risk super valuable items

[chilly ruin]

[radiant pelican]

I think this is so dumb BTW. Like he's rank 1 clog, let me just DROP ITEMS?????!!!!!!

[tacit crow]

Rank 1 clog dropping items surely means the main is at well over 10b. I feel like I'd stop dropping anything I only have 1 dupe of after like 5b main.

[blazing fern]

I immediately corrected myself lmao and said “pushed back”

[polar void]

what pots are worth using alch amulet charges on?

just restores/brews?

or anything else

[tacit crow]

Depends entirely on what kind of player you are.

[real yacht]

Personally just prayer/restores

[polar void]

id say brews/restores/pray pots about it right?

stams maybe?

[polar void]

trying not to be a noob one

[tacit crow]

I mean your goals, play style, etc.

[polar void]

saving myself as much time as possible ig

[tacit crow]

That's not what I mean

[polar void]

youre being very cryptic lol

[tacit crow]

For example if you are going for 200m all, you likely wouldn't see any benefit from even using the amulet for your account.

[frozen olive]

If your care about time then you only do it on hard to get secondaries

Like zammy wine

[tacit crow]

Secondaries don't matter

[polar void]

ok not that

[tacit crow]

The goggles are infinite

[frozen olive]

??

[tacit crow]

He's talking about the dose increase from amulet

[frozen olive]

Correct

And you need secondaries to make potions

Period

[tacit crow]

I mean I guess they matter in terms of time to obtain, sorry I thought you were talking about goggles lol

[frozen olive]

The value of making amulets for stuff like nests isn't worth cuz those are so quick

[polar void]

no the ammy

[frozen olive]

Right

[tacit crow]

But if you know that you are a birdhouse avoider then you get value from using amulet on nests

So it really just comes down to how you play.

[fossil flame]

feel like restores/stams/goarding/regen are only pots most ppl will get stuck on

[frozen olive]

Range is nice too early

[tacit crow]

Goading/Regen are probably the only one that you can universally say yes for.

[fossil flame]

maybe brews to ye but i find those easier

[frozen olive]

Before you hit good pvm

[tacit crow]

So in short we can't answer your question but I think you have enough info to determine what you should use the amulet on. @polar void

But you can type here what you plan to use it on and then someone will flame you for it being inefficient.

It's a weird calculation since it takes time to make amulets and time to gather secondaries/herbs, and obtaining the secondaries/herbs depends on your play style/goals.

[bold latch]

I see that cox prayers are placed before inferno/colo and that makes sense efficiency wise, but how necessary are they for those pieces of content? (Especially for someone attempting to learn both from scratch)

[fossil flame]

its less efficent probaly but helpful for ppl to get their first capes

its not as big anymore with deadeye still nice and the standard but ppl will tell u its not big deal

[north acorn]

what’s the ideal midgame setup for zulrah in terms of efficiency/comfyness

extended antis and nhally?

or will bowfa+eye will beat it by a mile?

[fossil flame]

nally kinda an enigma ive heard its quite good for zulrah and decent for other things but its not on the prog

i think in general theres a good arguement to get bp pre delve but rn ye ur considered to bowfa/eye zulrah with extended antis

[blazing fern]

its not a huge deal, deadeye 5% worse. did mine first time with deadeye (but only cuz 300 dry for rigor and said cba)

both inferno/quiver

nhally is so worth for zulrah imo but guess prog wants you to hope you get nhally by time u get ranc

[forest knot]

especially for inferno ppl overrate the importance of rigour, 95% of your time in there, you're not using offensive prayer as a learner.
It can help in sticky situations in later waves and will also make it less likely you get a 3rd set, but it can be overcome

[hollow cobalt]

Basically no gear is really "necessary" for anything

but the prayers are very good for how fast they are to get

[robust roost]

prog wants you to not acknowledge nhally as an item

for content that you attack with a slash weapon, it’s barely better than whip

for content that you actually use the range on (zulrah, aviansies) it’s worse than doing the content “properly”

would liken it to getting a 2nd enh before 6 armors

if you get it cool, if not it’s not worth staying for

we’re starting to float into that area now with hydra claw xd

[blazing fern]

yeah all fair and i agree

is bofa + ayak zulrah better than nally/chally?

or just if u dont get nhally its not that big of a diff

[robust roost]

i haven’t expressly checked bowfa vs nhally

but iirc eye completely smashes it vs both red and green

in half decent mage gear

chally is still good to take with like a 3-4 way as a spec if you want

for last hits

[blazing fern]

gotcha yeah

i know this isnt "efficient"

but thats too bad, nhally chally just feels so good

[robust roost]

oh

well thats against red snake

and assuming you have full oath

which you likely wouldn’t yet

still better

[hollow cobalt]

eye op

[robust roost]

blue/green

eye is way better than nox against green than nox is against red

and you’re never tribridding lol

so you’d do eye+bowfa anyway

[blazing fern]

yeah i gotchu

shame cuz nhally/chally so chill

[robust roost]

you could still do it if you have one, nhally is the best option if you just want to do 0 switches afk zulrah

though there are some spawns where you can’t melee without being in venom

so it might still just be overall worse than bowfa camp lol

[hollow cobalt]

yeah, nally still exists as the "weed pvm" weapon for a lot of stuff

even if it isn't efficient

[low stag]

wait wtf when did scythe get moved to pre-shadow?

[tacit crow]

In the last week or so

someone linked the discussion a bit back. I asked about it and then discussion started happening

[low stag]

damn i havent been paying attention. is there a short explanation?

[real yacht]

Scy v good and other Megas dont help at tob whwre scy helps at cox and Duke

I think thats what it boiled down to

@low stag

[tacit crow]

yeah pretty much

but i wouldnt say tbow doesnt help at tob

just that scythe helps a lot more at cox than tbow does at tob. and cox is a lot longer than scythe

[real yacht]

Its a qol item bp beats it everywhere you would use it no?

And pre fires

[hollow cobalt]

bow makes tob more enjoyable, but not substantially faster

tbh basically no gear makes tob completion substantially faster other than like.. def reducing specs

[tacit crow]

yeah freezing as a bower vs. bper is so much more chill. also nylo boss more chill. pre hits are fun/nice. I think those are my main points

[real yacht]

That's fair I actually hate freezing with blowpipe I end up missing like 2 attacks to be sure i get my freeze

[robust roost]

just don't north freeze and you're good

south has to delay like 3 ticks anyway

throw on augury as soon as you see a scythe or bow hit coming in at around 5% over

you have a fair amount of time to do the 3-4 way switch you're doing

[bold latch]

How are people enjoying using eye for cox in general/olm mage hand as compared to toxic trident?

[bold latch]

Or I guess more specifically how much better is it, and are the 3 tick methods for mage hand harder/less convenient to do?

[frozen olive]

its good

#chambers-of-xeric message

read the messages below for starts

[real yacht]

I love the eye walk after getting it down and it sheds

Its closer to shadow run but no swaping styles just click the tiles and hand

[forest knot]

personally i think claw is alrdy dead content. Get scy as your first mega then use that to camp melee in 3+12s for tbow

[robust roost]

yes, remains true even if you aren't megaing though

but yeah it would be significantly to your benefit if you could do big scales and be scything the whole time

when your mage wep is eye

and scy is better than lance vs green drags which are bis prayer xp to 99 with wildy elites,

[forest knot]

isnt 99 pray free assuming you get wrath runes before you start doing nech tasks?

[robust roost]

possibly?

but also you get a lot of wraths from yama, so im wondering if you even need 95 rc in the first place

if we're going off the assumption that you melee nechs and abby demons so you can offering the ashes

there's probably some routes where you get synapses early enough that you're doing yama before 80 slayer

not sure exactly how likely that is

the amount of yama it would take roughly to get full oath, i think you get somewhere around 5k wrath runes from him

is that enough to do 99 prayer without ever crafting one?

because assuming you follow gear chart you should almost never cast a surge spell

[frozen olive]

Probably not if we're cutting out Hydra

[radiant pelican]

For someone who doesn't have plans to grind mega rares, and just will Cox until prayer scrolls, I should still grind claw right

[frozen olive]

Not sure lance will do much just for that, esp if you team
It's gonna be a way longer grind than the time you save.
It does make melee hand a lot easier tho

[radiant pelican]

Wow you have me completely rethinking my path

[frozen olive]

You'll want fero still

So you can reevaluate after them

[radiant pelican]

Good call ty

I guess I never thought about teaming for the prayer scrolls

[robust roost]

lance is like

4 max hits over tent

5 over reg whip

iirc

51/52-56

it's a big difference but not worth doing 500 extra hydra before 150 cox for

assuming you get dex on the 5th purple, which is unlikely, more likely you only have to do around 90

that's also assuming solo points rates, if you do 3+12s or even just basic team 3+4s you should take less

[hollow cobalt]

Dex/lance order was always a bit of a meme

And never mattered

[robust roost]

if that's the case then it seems like a no-brainer to just skip lance altogether

with how early you get scythe now

[radiant pelican]

So basically re: the chart, slayer ends once you get fero gloves. But if I'm going for 99 slayer, might as well keep skipping for hydra until DHL?

[robust roost]

depends on your goals

the only thing in the entire game that my lance comes out of the bank for these days is vorkath

[radiant pelican]

Fair enough

[robust roost]

which is completely dead post-50 unless you want super antifires, which are useless unless you're trying to clog

or unless you're trying to clog

lol

[radiant pelican]

I guess I'll just finish off slayer normally after fero gloves then

[robust roost]

post-fero slayer xp is probably mostly gonna come from araxytes

and smokes

or cerb

depending on how fucked you got on prims/eternals

[radiant pelican]

Is there a reason why pegs aren't included with treads?

[robust roost]

rangers take way way way longer to get than inf boots/d boots

for +1 range str

[radiant pelican]

Does the +1 range str not do anything

[frozen olive]

It does

[robust roost]

even if it does, and it probably does in some places, it takes so long to get rangers

not worth the time

[hollow cobalt]

Tbh if shit like torva is on there, rangers should be

[robust roost]

(if you want max gear eventually you should still get it)

yeah that's fair

[hollow cobalt]

More useful than torva legs

And faster

[robust roost]

tbh

if you were gonna put it there it'd probably be pretty early

it doesn't take much to optimally farm mediums

or do them

not any earlier than treads ofc because they're useless before then

[radiant pelican]

Yeah rangers are only like 20 hour grind tbh not even that long

so you run whip at cox instead of DHL. what if you have saeldar or fang? sry ive never done the raid

[frozen olive]

Well you'd use blade ofc, can fang tek if no good crush, vangs

[hollow cobalt]

Blade is just strictly better than whip

[robust roost]

blade also doubles as a top tier vasa crystal weapon

(on stab)

[radiant pelican]

why am i getting more dps on olm left hand on dpscalc with fang rather than blade?

[robust roost]

you aren't calcing with def reduction

in a solo you typically calc with 1 dwh

in a team (trio+) the hand should usually be 0 defense, if your group understands how def reduction works

also make sure your boosts and everything are included. overload, piety, etc

people forget things all the time with calcs and end up misleading themselves into thinking something is worse than it is

[craggy granite]

I don't know if that gets 2 synapses by 80 slayer, but I think scobow -> delve gets more than enough prayer to just barrage nechs and go for second synapse

[radiant pelican]

blade starts getting better than fang after 2 dwh hits fyi

[craggy granite]

banking td's ashes means its not a big issue

I figure that Oathplate grind should happen after Rancour though?

[robust roost]

ehhhhhhhh

it varies wildly from person to person how much loot you actually get from delve

[robust roost]

yeah but you can't 4:1 fang

[craggy granite]

Yeah, I mean that in the route there the prayer exp has its value

[robust roost]

you either 3:1 and lose a tick every cycle, or you "world fang" and die half the time lol

[radiant pelican]

ok good to know, yeah i had no idea about this raid tbh

[robust roost]

fang solo would be maybe a viable method if 4:1 didn't exist

but you 4:1 noprep and do fast solos with no damage taken

or much less damage taken*

and yeah in teams, the hand should always be close to 0 def so fang is awful

[radiant pelican]

good to know ty

worth using serp over nezzy helm at cox or not worth the scales

[robust roost]

uh i would calc to see if it gives your blade a max hit

use it if it does

(Overloaded)

fwiw if you choose to do inferno before rigour, you get to get infernal, oath and ultor before you enter cox

this pushes blade above fang at 1 hammer

[radiant pelican]

ive been debating inferno pre-rigour

thoughts?

maybe once i get occult/max treads? or better to use devout boots

[robust roost]

if you’re good at inferno, rigour won’t matter

[radiant pelican]

never done it

[robust roost]

if you’re learning, it can make a difference but it probably won’t be the thing that causes you to lose a run you otherwise would’ve finished

it’s more the case of “if im getting it anyway, i may as well get it before i do this hard content that im camping range for”

[radiant pelican]

fair

ill just wait for rigour then tbh

[robust roost]

rigour vs infernal is probably the same case as rigour vs lance, likely makes too little difference to worry about, do whichever is more comfortable

not having to go out of your way to turn on steel skin for the extra defence in waves where you really need to dps something fast is pretty nice qol

for non-speeds usually the only time you use a dps prayer before jads is when there’s a melee+blob on you and you need to kill it quickly

or a bat

[radiant pelican]

thats good to know, thank you. osrs has so much decision paralysis

[robust roost]

not very helpful when you need to be able to make quick decisions based on random spawns xd

[radiant pelican]

i was more meaning of like what content to grind, what gear to go for lol

cause when i lock myself in a place until i get the item

each decision has potentially 100s of hours behind it

[robust roost]

idk, decision paralysis is a pretty accurate description of what causes most inferno learners the most trouble

but as far as gearing goes it’s not really that deep

you won’t usually lose 100s or even 10s of hours if you go for things out of order for w/e reason

depending on how out of order it is kekw

at the end of the day the most efficient way to play is the way that keeps you playing

burning out is min eff

[hollow cobalt]

Most of the time it's more like minutes from doing things in a weird order

[forest knot]

and then sometimes you have irons that do 5.6k corp for ely doing mmorpg's chicken method from 2016 in 2024 like a guy in my clan because they dont have any gear to do better methods

[real yacht]

Ffs

[robust roost]

lol

im in a weird spot

i want to do corp, but i want ralos first, but ralos is just obnoxiously fucking rare for no reason

[hollow cobalt]

If you think ralos is rare, I have news about corp

[robust roost]

im ready to take a thousand hour corp vacation

but i want literal as bis as it gets first

only thing im missing is the stupid destructo-disk

[low stag]

I thought the method for solo corp now was just voidwaker spec > fang till low > house pool

[frozen olive]

https://youtu.be/rGQrQS6Z0Rs?feature=shared

[radiant pelican]

doing corp grind rn is risky af cause its a prime place for rework over the next few years id say

[low stag]

Idk I feel like corp is way to iconic to rework

[radiant pelican]

the one big rework i can think of without changing the essence of corp is just allowing irons to kill it in a group

is DHL needed for any CAs?

[frozen olive]

Maybe for some gm stuff like Huey speed if you aren't getting megas

Vork

But for master CAs no

[robust roost]

it does help for vork gm but you can probably rng that one with the dhcb you're likely to get on the way to tbow

[dusky fog]

Unless you spoon dhc or grind for dhw , you’ll need it for one of the Huey CAs

[tacit crow]

I mean. That's definitely a CA you can skip forever until you go for GM.

And you'll likely have dhcb when you go for GM