Gear Progression Chart

[midnight dome]

pretty sure I used to bring it pre scythe buff but not anymore

especially not with rancour

[neat sparrow]

For blood bark do I need excess magic or redwood logs?

Or do any work

[frozen olive]

Don't use anything less than magic

[dusky fog]

better to use at zmi vs vile vigor?

[frozen olive]

yeah you use vv, the ring would just make it so you only have to do it every 3 laps, very small qol that means nothing

[umbral pasture]

magic minimum

and if you have the level for redwoods you should do em

[radiant pelican]

How many laps do U get before vv without ring? 2?

[severe pasture]

2 unless you have high prayer low weight

[terse matrix]

I'm done with zammy and already got a tbow and dclaws, i assume i just get an emberlight and skip burning claws en scorching bow ?

[hybrid blaze]

I think the claws might still be good. Skip scobo though yeah

[terse matrix]

Im also done with cerb and demonics, only got duke left. But it hink its still wurth to get the emberlight for that? Where would i use burning claws over d claws and vw ?

[hybrid blaze]

I dont know what's worth it for you

[terse matrix]

well i got 1 claw already so might just try to complete it and pickup a synapse on the way

[quiet schooner]

emberlight is very good at duke

[wooden isle]

What method would you recommend for bandos?

[gentle kestrel]

Door/Altar is the move

[frozen olive]

https://youtu.be/rvkytWBKzKU?si=iudFa_Fghky3Kkkz

[crystal narwhal]

To add to what the others said: door altar might feel really difficult at first then it just clicks and becomes very brain off. Same rhythm every kill.

The kiting around the room method is easier to master but never becomes brain off the same way (plus, worse dps and uses more run energy)

[wooden isle]

thanks for the info!

[radiant pelican]

any thoughts on waiting for elite CAs until 87 slayer? would make it a bit easier to get points from sire and kraken, while also getting toxic trident for other tasks (currently only have sceptre)

if any due diligence went behind putting elite CAs in that spot in the progression (like an updated list of tasks) that'd be helpful as well. thank you!

[crystal narwhal]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DYmWr1ka-BLWccgFy6C4zhpDmpuZh_rbCBBmiQq3F9k/edit?gid=830453278#gid=830453278

from bruhsailor, list of "easy" tasks to do

[radiant pelican]

thank you, ill check it out

unfortunately the new bosses add an extra 100 points to make elite

but moons amoxliatl and huey have tasks

that i can do

just not arraxor or really colo

[crystal narwhal]

Oh, right. Yeah might have to improvise a bit

There are a lot of tasks taht are very easy if you have pvmed a bit on main that can be thrown in there too, but it depends on your experience

Anyone can get elite though, just gotta learn a little bit if you're new to pvm

[radiant pelican]

yea im trash at pvm but this will hopefully make me better haha

[crystal narwhal]

Everyone starts of somewhere, you'll improve if you want to

[languid sand]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/User:Tae/BRUHSailerCAs

wiki version of that spreadsheet if you prefer

[radiant pelican]

Thank you!

[umbral pasture]

given that the main purpose of elite CAs is to benefit slayer i think you'd really want to avoid doing more slayer before getting it

[radiant pelican]

makes sense

[woven nova]

u wouldnt even have arclight yet so idk

[rugged token]

sounds awful ngl

[woven nova]

sounds bad!

dw about him

:)

if he wants to get like 30-40k an hour safespotting tasks thats on him

[hybrid blaze]

Arclight requires 75 atk

This is a bad idea

[livid socket]

why does some random guys opinion hold any value

let him play how he wants

[hybrid blaze]

Eh honestly all other players are just randos with opinions, there is no harm in exploring options

Just a swing-and-a-miss this time

[livid socket]

I disagree, if you want anyone to take you seriously you need basis for your opinion

[crystal narwhal]

The only decent argument against chins is if you have a ton of "0 time" to afk combats up

But even that isn’t a great argument

[livid socket]

"i think this" without a "because of x y z compelling reason" is completely worthless and should be ignored

[hybrid blaze]

I did a bunch of nmz range, it's less glorious than it seems

And I was doing it right, most people aren't ime

[crystal narwhal]

I did it too, but I didn’t know better. I was doing chins then I got pet in 2k chins and decided to afk nmz

His personal choices are fine, but he shouldn’t claim that they are good, because they are not

[hybrid blaze]

I've got to log off but beware that cg skip is more difficult, not easier, than doing cg

Many people avoid cg because they think it's too hard and unintentionally make their progression much more challenging

[crystal narwhal]

I think a lot of people struggle with it because the difficulty curve is steep in the beginning with CG. You jump right in often with little pvm experience. It is easier in the long run but people often prefer a longer but linear progression like doing moons etc gives. It is a lot worse, but it lets people progress slowly instead of facing a difficult challenge early on (cg)

[livid socket]

ppl like that arent thinking rationally

so rational arguments usually dont work very well

in the case of cg avoiders anyway

some ppl just have incorrect base assumptions (like that barrows gear is useful, or something) and therefore their conclusions are way off track

ive spent enough time arguing with such people and i try not to do it anymore

[crystal narwhal]

• the "fun" factor which people throw in the equation

Barrows is fun (it isn’t)

[livid socket]

fun is 100% subjective so it has no place in progression advice regardless

[crystal narwhal]

I agree, but people still do it when discussing what is "worth" to do

Still glad moons exists though, CG avoiders cry less

[zenith lake]

i liked moons while doing the CAs, it was much more enjoyable then alot of other early pwm

[crystal narwhal]

Moons is great, it does exactly what it should for who it is made for

It isn’t for me but that’s fine

[livid socket]

yeah it isnt

macas/blood moon have a few niche uses

but nothing you care about earlygame

its mostly clogger content

yeah it is

thats what i meant about a lot of people just not thinking rationally about it

its all so tiresome

pretty hard to not have enough gp unless you dodge everything that gives you gp

which for some reason seems pretty popular to do

[thorny adder]

Question - I am at the point where I’m either doing Bandos or Tormented demons. When it comes to tormented demons, is it intended to be done on task only or worthwhile to farm without a task? @full panther

[quiet schooner]

On task

[thorny adder]

Thanks

[hidden abyss]

@full panther hows this looking these days

[forest knot]

still the same I think? Don't think any recent updates really changed the order

[hidden abyss]

Fair enough

[full panther]

my understanding is that there are some potential minor inaccuracies that could be addressed

[hidden abyss]

the blue anchor link colour looks odd on dark mode. not sure if its safaris default css

yeah its the user agent

[undone flame]

question regarding wrath runes and then vork backpack. Is the wrath icon to just get the RC for wrath runes? or do ds2 aswell? confused considering going for backpack looks like its after a few other longer grinds. When I'd figure if you finished ds2 you'd just go for 50kc?

[frozen olive]

you need to do ds2 for access to the altar anyway

but yes you should do 50 kc for backpack when you do

think the step icon is just get the level

cuz you won't have the con yet

actually you do idk lol

[radiant pelican]

whats the reason for elite kandarin in the place where it is? just for herblore?

[radiant pelican]

Also, why no seed box? I'm just thinking for tower nechs

[livid socket]

its nice to have but doesnt really save any time

if you have it, use it

[radiant pelican]

I wonder where the construction cape would fit on this guide

[mortal harness]

Much later. Get 83 early like recommended and then just wait on kingdom/PVM planks for 99. It's just QOL not worth rushing on non-UIM. Just make POH tabs if needed using soft clay from melee nechs and other random stuff (e.g. moons I guess)

[radiant pelican]

Yeah I already have the logs needed for 99 con from kingdom, just have zero motivation to take a detour from slayer to get 99

[full panther]

The Interactive Progression Chart has been updated!

This update includes an initial guess for sequencing the new prayers from the Royal Titans. It might not be fully optimized, but it should be fairly close.

A few fixes and improvements:

• Black Demon icon is now properly Greater Demon to match the right task extension.
• Mixed hide now appears before 69 Slayer, and Ring of Endurance has been swapped for 98 Agility to reflect the correct requirement.
• You can now right-click items and skills to view their names and quickly open their OSRS Wiki pages.

The codebase has been rewritten, making future updates easier and opening the door for contributions. Unfortunately, this means previous chart progress is lost, but that shouldn't be too disruptive.

If you notice any issues or something feels off, let me know.

As always, the chart is available here:
https://madssb.github.io/InteractiveGearProg/index.html

[woven nova]

hey so the guide says 98 agility but skips graceful i should have a lot of marks should i buy it anyways? to save on stams in the future thx in advance

[chilly cove]

where's the dark mode toggle? @full panther

[full panther]

ngl i broke it trying to fix some things and didnt implement it back yet because i figured everyone prefers dark mode. did i fuck up that assessment? 😅

[chilly cove]

i'm not a fan of dark mode personally haha

[full panther]

alright. ill make that the top priority to return it soon-ish

[glossy niche]

I know it's not set in stone but this seems really late in progression for the giants prayers? I would have guessed it would be fairly soon after CG

[full panther]

its a conservative guess where it makes giants the fastest they can reasonably be before doing large amounts of slayer

its feasible that somewhere earlier than that is even better, but noone as far as i can tell has mathed that out yet.

[lavish horizon]

Been following the bruhsailer guide for a new GIM, and I believe the Helm of Neitiznot should be here?

[plush arrow]

Probably a stupid question but why 98 agility specifically? It was a ring of endurance before and I just assumed it to be a general HS grind for supplies

[fallen raptor]

Sepulchre good for a lot of things

[brittle plover]

98-99 you force spawn marks at ardy course, not sure if run energy rework changes that

[fallen raptor]

Gp, agi exp, ppots, magic (alching)

Runes

[plush arrow]

Yeah I love me some sepulchre but I was just wondering why it changed from Ring of Endurance to specifically 98 agility

[plush arrow]

I see, thanks

[fallen raptor]

And yeah this

My bad, missed half your question

[plush arrow]

No worries

[full panther]

Thanks! i will add it to the backlog

[midnight dome]

All the way from 98-99 is probably overkill nowadays, you barely need stams

[winter agate]

My green boxes….

Just kidding! Thanks for your hard work

[obsidian sky]

I went through all of your links to the wiki, the 86strength one leads to maniacal monkeys#ranged strategy wiki page - every other is correct

[woven nova]

might be correct if ur using death charge and chally while chinning (which u should be)

[fallen raptor]

Yeah you should get that during chinning afaik

[fossil flame]

i rrly like this guide but i think including sra is a timeloss easily not 100% sure

again i think its a nitpick because u already have all the core items before sra anyway. so ur detouring when u already are basically maxed gear

but also id rather just send more tob over dt2 bosses

[midnight dome]

A lot of the end game gear is probably not strictly a timesave. Especially in tob you can just get carried and barely lose out on purple chance

[full panther]

possibly. i forget if this was ever mathed or just speculated. i can imagine it would be a bigger timeloss to get the SRA before scythe relative to scythe before SRA, despite SRA seeing no mileage. this all gets a bit too challenging and arguably pointless to calculate maybe? im not sure

[fossil flame]

i think theres other advantages to be fair going for sra u prob are going to finish bellator/ven ring in process/virtus pieces

but even those items are bis i think its more like rrly niche items like inquistor

[full panther]

sometimes the chart just makes the argument of "if you want this item, the best time to get it would be now", though this is not at odds with scythe first lol

such as with pegs. never ever is the pegs like actually worth the time unless you want them lol

[fallen raptor]

I think near the end things are kinda interchangeable no?

[full panther]

all i feel somewhat confident in is that shadow should precede tbow

scythe is arguably not really that gated by any of the other two megarares, so maybe that should not be literally last

i think spending too much time on this is a mistake

[orchid kindle]

What's the point of 98 agility where it is?

[hybrid blaze]

#1229571283428053002 message

[orchid kindle]

Oh basically saying just do sepulchre at this point, not the actual level. Thank u, read that but didn't see the bigger picture 🤦

I know this is probably somewhere, but when is it best to start sep? floor 4? 5?

[woven nova]

its best to get ur agility xp to 72+ by barb fishing then f3+

[hushed forge]

poor ladlor cant win with his agility graphic

[agile surge]

does this thread/question not deserve its own channel btw?

imagine it would get even more attention if it wasnt just a question here, its a good thing but you have to search for the link for example

i mean its a sticky in ironman discussions but idk

[hybrid blaze]

its in #1052266500041478246

[obsidian sky]

Now that the sheet has the right click option, things that are less obvious at a glance could eventually get a "explanation" which links to either a doc, page on the gear progression or otherwise, to the goals that aren't intuitive at a glance or asked about frequently

[full panther]

If specific parts of a google doc can be highlighted and linked to, id be happy to try to sync it up with BRUHSailer

[midnight dome]

Yeah this has been discussed, the point is that this is a quick overview not a fully fledged guide

[full panther]

But for when it goes out of scope for the guide its not gonna be so feasible

[obsidian sky]

Yeah, I've seen this. I was mostly thinking in terms of 1-2 lines. 98 agility explanation would not need to be more than "98 agility here because it doesn't get improved with later unlocks, while also providing resources for your account. If the grind is too much you can stretch it out but a high agility level is recommended." Can probably shorten it a lot compared to that as well, main idea isn't to like put an explanation everywhere, just the ones where people are frequently asking. Nor is the idea to provide a long guide / answer as response, but just like hopefully an answer that makes people feel like they know what they're supposed to do instead of feeling like they should go ask

[fallen raptor]

98 agi also gives a lot of levels besides agility (con, magic, time (BH runs and farming contracts))

[swift pike]

Is near max agility that important to include in a gear-centric chart? Any thoughts about omitting it or lowering down to 96 or whatever the max run regen breakpoint is?

Bruhsailer has you train every skill at the point of the chart but they're not included

[hybrid blaze]

#1229571283428053002 message

[upper pike]

No one forcing you to fully adhere to the written words of the guide, you could always use it with more chill attitude. If you absolutely abhor a step to just move on to the next thing.

It's a shortened checklist after all & you are a human being with free will

[mortal harness]

You get benefits from Agility all the way through 99 now

Because both run drain rate as well as restore rate are affected by level. I believe one of those two is capped at 96 but the other one is capped at 99

Feel free to modify as needed for your assumptions, only thing is that if you skip Agi you need to make money elsewhere. But lemme tell you it is reeeeeal nice running around the game and using zero stams everywhere. Agility is one of the absolute best ROIs just for that reason but on top of that you make a ton of money and get a ton of ppots so it's kinda hard to say no to that

[weary arrow]

last regen rate threshold is at 90 agi now

cuz they changed the formula

The energy regeneration formula has changed from (Agility level / 6) + 8 to (Agility level / 10) + 15

although with the 99 cape you can boost to 100 for the next threshold ig

[mortal harness]

Drain rate is affected through 99

[weary arrow]

ye that one is

but the 96 agi threshold for regen is outdated

[mortal harness]

🫡

[swift pike]

@upper pike @mortal harness I have no qualms with sepulcher, I understand why it's part of bruhsailer and I trained agi to 96 there myself too. What I'm thinking is, is whether the step is good or necessary for the chart. Afterall, not all moneymakers or high skills are included. I'm inclined to think it's fine, after all there's the barebones chart for pvm only milestones

[upper pike]

it's not pvm only milestones, there's poh shit in there and minigame items

i do see a point with removing all the level-goals from there like 70 ranged, 69 slayer, 92 ranged, 86 stre, 98 agi

well... you'd replace the 69 slayer lvl checkbox with a MM2 related thing probably, as that's what it's for.

@full panther i do have a question about the interractive progression chart:
why is there a bandos hilt and a bgs in 2 specific slots? aren't they "the same"?

[full panther]

it tries to communicate that you shouldn't stay if you don't have the shards required when you get the hilt

like if you don't have it by now, you don't desperately need the bgs just yet, just chill and get it during k'ril grind later on

[upper pike]

i would just remove the hilt from the early section and keep the bgs in the later section there.

[full panther]

thanks for the suggestion

[swift pike]

looks like all pvm unlocks to me in the "bare bones" version.

Either way, now I'm thinking if it should read "98 agility at Sepulcher", or is it important to max run energy now than later?

[full panther]

you don't benefit from delay it, thats for sure

[swift pike]

like would this step make any sense if you just do rooftops to 98

[upper pike]

no

[full panther]

you're missing out on too much misc exp and gp

[hybrid blaze]

#ironman-discussion message

[full panther]

sep is really really solid

[upper pike]

in bruhsailor it very very specifically is for misc xp, prayer pots and gp

[swift pike]

Should the chart then read 98 at Sepulcher specifically or do you assume the reader to fully follow bruhsailor?

[full panther]

yes the chart tries to follow BRUHSailer

[upper pike]

for the prog chart i would make it a lot more detailed and include much more skilling milestones like sepulchre and have a version that is excludes all stat-specific milestones, anything that isn't item/tool related

[full panther]

also goes way past that guide too aswell though

[full panther]

are you somewhat savvy with coding stuff?

like familiar with json, etc?

[upper pike]

whatfor?

[upper pike]

cuz depending on who asks, i do not know what a compoooter is

[swift pike]

I realised I didn't know if the chart was intended to fully follow bruhsailer or just take inspiration. It makes more sense now.

[full panther]

this file decides the sequence of the whole chart

can just add shit to this

rearrange how you want

and render ur own version

[upper pike]

did my message just get yeeted?

[full panther]

seems so

[upper pike]

i tried to just opload the json

[full panther]

ah

[upper pike]

that would be my edits

[full panther]

maybe it was too sus

great!
https://github.com/Madssb/InteractiveGearProg/tree/main

now just download the rest of that and implement it there ish

substituting the sequence.json

and can render ur own

[upper pike]

could have just said you wanted a pull request

[full panther]

i guess

at the moment i am reasonable happy with the current state of things, and am effectively saying you can fork and do whatever you want i suppose

[swift pike]

My point ultimately is, if I misunderstood the chart to take inspiration but not necessarily follow bruhsailer fully, would other people? Would it make sense to write more specif details such as 98 agi at sepu, or that it follows bruhsailer to the tee, or just leave it for the reader?

[full panther]

we had this discussion about a month ago:

https://discord.com/channels/166812746510368768/1335288266538094683

[hybrid blaze]

If you want to have a guide that follows BRUHsailer exactly, might I recommend BRUHsailer

[upper pike]

i don't personally adhere strictly to bruhsailor, but it does give me some nice focuspoints to think off when generally playing my account to have fun.

[full panther]

the chart does effectively assume familiarity with BRUHSailer, or else some of the choices get very arbitrary and confusing

[full panther]

thats good

tbf it goes well beyond the scope of BRUHSailer at some point too

[upper pike]

bruhsailor kinda parks your account slightly beyond cg

the point beyond bruhsailor is where most my interest lies

i refused myself to be trapped in red prison, so i went ahead on some things, need to go backfill some others too. never going to get mage's book tho

when i'm that close to toa

[full panther]

im with you on that one

[full panther]

i think some rewording may be useful. its derived from Parasailer's gear progression chart

and he is a co-author of the guide, so in that sense it is intrinsically based on BRUHSailer

but i never read all of BRUHSailer really

[swift pike]

I can't find the discussion at a quick glance, sorry if I'm bringing up redundant ideas.

I was interested in how the chart reads to an audience who doesn't know all the underlying assumptions and whether it's intended as so, or if you care about making it more easily understood by people who are not already familiar with bruhsailer

[full panther]

i don't really know tbh

the 98 agility part might seem like really really strange to a person not familiar with bruhsailer

[swift pike]

I'm not disputing any of the assumptions of bruhsailer or ladlor's chart

[full panther]

eh i think the chart makes some sense without familiarity to bruhsailer tbh

bruhsailer technically never says 70 lol, they do 64 (?)

and in mm1

an unfamiliar reader might just figure they are supposed to sit at sandcrabs

the chin might clue them onto chinning for those lvls, but they dont have mm2 yet and might get confused, and conclude, "alright, unlock chins, and lvl 70 range at crabs"

which like is not useless still

[swift pike]

My initial thought is to introduce the chart with something like "follows bruhsailer fairly closely up to this point, then does whatever"

[full panther]

Parasailer: Author of Parasailer's Gear Progression Chart and co-author of BRUHSailer, the comprehensive Ironman account progression guide. The current gear progression sequence is largely based on the aforementioned chart and, by extension, BRUHSailer.

here i do cite BRUHSailer as the source of many of the choices

im a bit depleted rn so my reasoning power is not so strong atm

but im somewhere thinking that this isn't actually bruhsailer, and there is only some amount of misconceptions arising with no familiarity to the guide

and with wanting to follow bruhsailer, just use the actual document

so things seem fine as is

[swift pike]

I didn't make the connection but perhaps I'm just an outlier! either way, just a tiny thing to think about, maybe you'll never hear this feedback a second time. Thanks for to chat, it's fun to pick your brains and I learned something about the chart today, and thanks for making the chart! I love to plan with it and make the squares go green

[full panther]

it's fun to hear about how you interpret it too

it sounds like you didn't have familiarity with BRUHSailer, or was not using it, but you use this resource?

[swift pike]

No, I've read through it few times by now and used it somewhat as a roadmap and a lot of the methods for my current iron. I just wasn't sure to what extend your chart was supposed to adhere to it and I started wondering how other people might interpret some steps too. Thinking about readability and learning angle. For instance I saw how confused the reddit thread was 😂

[full panther]

here is where people "come from" when enterring the page

its a bit of a shame that it doesn't count like links opened from disc, but i think its safe to assume that many just find it through there, and maybe most of those are from bookmark in browser

for those that find the chart by any means that isn't that (unknown), i almost assume a lack of familiarity with bruhsailer

so its like a substantial part tbf

[fallen raptor]

I just leave it open on my mobile lol

[fickle arrow]

Linkedin???

[full panther]

yes

[fickle arrow]

"Working at Finance X Y Z gave me lots of time to think about efficiency. So much that I have applied it to the game I love playing! Here you can see how [insert buzzwords] works within the realm of oldschool runescape! Give it a try and let me know" type shi

[full panther]

close enough

[steel lagoon]

Some absolute psychopaths used yahoo that's even more weird

[weary arrow]

prob japanese

[fallen raptor]

Is there a reason the mory legs 4 is not before chinning?

[woven nova]

why would they be

ur doing a whole barrows set just for a bit more bonecrusher xp idk

[fallen raptor]

Oh wait u need slayer too

<- dumb

[woven nova]

it’d be like 170k more prayer xp or something

less than an hour of prayer anywyas

[fallen raptor]

Yeah, I looked for where the legs were in the chart and they were nowhere

So that sparked the dumb question

[slate dome]

What xp/hr are you gathering/using bones 👀

170k being less than an hr seems off

[slate dome]

That isn't using the bones too though right?

[woven nova]

should be

[slate dome]

I always thought wildy greens were like 330-340/hr, then time to use the bones brought it to like 150-160k/hr or something

Even at like fastest doing gravestone method its still 10 mins to use those bones

[woven nova]

the number is a non issue anyways as u wouldn’t do mory elite to save on one hour of prayer xp before chinning

[slate dome]

Oh yeah agree

[woven nova]

it says it’s 175k idk, ask sm1 who makes the chart

[slate dome]

I was just curious if I was under calcing pray/hr that's all

[woven nova]

pretty sure u can get more than 340 an hour anyways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QnVTLT5MWs

you’d wanna pick up hides though ofc so not realistic

[slate dome]

Ahhh leaving hides yeah makes sense

[fossil flame]

hm melee xph per hour is that?

[light prawn]

is there a more written guide for the interactive gear prog?

[full panther]

much of the early game content is derived from BRUHSailer. Anything beyond that point lacks some written source, and was collectively speculated and concluded in this disc

[light prawn]

Im already at cg

[crystal narwhal]

If you want a guide, thats bruhsailer for you, if you want to playwithout a guide but have some direction on "smart" goals to go for, that's the progression chart

[light prawn]

where can i find the bruhsailer guide? just google it?

[hybrid blaze]

tinyurl.com/bruhsailer

[full panther]

👀

[latent oyster]

bruhsailer.guide is available but also triple the price

[hybrid blaze]

I'm more of a https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CBkFM70SnrW4hJXvHM2F1fYCuBF_fRnEXnTYgRnRkAE-guy myself

thats a real iconic url right there

[near pollen]

is there a better contents page for bruhsailer?

for example, for someone jumping in at like 1800 total level

[fallen raptor]

Unfortunately not

You can check the xp per step to see where you are close to and increase the others that are too low to start at that step

[near pollen]

Might be easier to just read through chapter 3 and make some high level notes of goals to go for

[primal nymph]

Morning fellas, sorry if this has been asked a bunch of times but the red chinchompa tile. Is it gather enough chins for 92 range in mm2?

[woven nova]

yes

u can do black chins too if u want

[primal nymph]

Thanks for the clarification

[drowsy ore]

I am unreasonably excited to see where Yama fits in, in a few weeks when it comes out 👀 the earlier the better could be crazy

[storm sapphire]

Is it confirmed in a few weeks? Or are you just assuming off the spring release?

[fossil flame]

yama spring and mokha summer i think

what spring and summer means is pretty vauge though

[drowsy ore]

They said it is was sooner than you think

[crystal narwhal]

I think I saw/heard April, I want to say early April but not sure and haven't been able to find where I got that from.

[storm sapphire]

Just curious, I never trust Jagex tho hope they’re right

[tall lark]

question: does the elite combat achievements really fit here? i'm somewhat following the progression so far give or take a few (+ even done some "inefficient" stuff recommended to skip like moons, gg, huey) but i'm milesssss off
correct me if i'm wrong but i feel like you would just about be getting hard hilt at this point

or is the assumption that at this point you do your own detouring to make up whatever u need to get the points

[full panther]

the rewards on this tier are significant

Superior slayer monsters spawn increased 25% to a rate of 1/150 (compared to the normal 1/200)

Bracelets of slaughter and expeditious bracelets have a 10% chance to fully recharge instead of breaking

[slate dome]

Should be way past hard, no?

You can do most pvm after bofa

Tons of points from toa etc

[full panther]

there are ton of pts harvesting alternatives yeah, some may seem non-obvious

[slate dome]

Don't think that step represents 'you should have elite', rather 'go get elite'

[tall lark]

yeah i know they're huge but i just don't know how u would get close to it at that point in the chart. one of the only things i havent done earlier in the chart is toa but i'm still 600 points off

[slate dome]

Probably loads of easy points you still haven't collected

Post your CA boss log if you want people to point out easy stuff

[full panther]

afaik there is a writeup somewhere on CAs

scoring them in availability and points

[slate dome]

Bruh has one in his guide I thought

[full panther]

some generalized advice is go do the cox ones that are trivial, go do nex ones in masses

go do toa ones like zebak shenanigans

[crystal narwhal]

FWIW when I went from elite to master I did like 150 in a day from random shit

[tall lark]

sure I know i can do cleanup+detouring to work towards it for my own account, but I was just feeling in terms of this progression chart, the jump kinda comes out of nowhere. like "at this point u should get elite ca points" but seems miles off?

especially with how focused things was before. "do x/y/z for _ gear, which unlocks x etc.

[full panther]

i see where you're coming from, but that arrow is like ~2m slayer experience or so?

[tall lark]

yeah unfortunately I think for most ppl including myself more than half of that xp is gonna be from TDs

[full panther]

afaik this sequencing of the elite ca was not mathed out, so i cant give you numeric justification

[tall lark]

no worries i see, just giving my 2 cents on my experience with it! hope it helps

[full panther]

but the logic applied is that it should be reasonably achieveable even without the slayer lvl for bosses accessible

[full panther]

sounds good

[tall lark]

just to close my thoughts on it:

the guide is great and reasonably sequential up until then, but imo the elite ca does feel like a jarring step where i would effectively throw the progression order out and go on your own to get these CAs, which I 100% get I can do on my acc, but in terms of the progression chart it feels by the time you've done the elite CA you probably already unlocked a dozen unlocks ahead of it. sequence breaking

and on top of that i think TDs change a lot. between TDs, gorillas and shamans with avg rng I could very easily approach 90 slayer up until that point having barely done much superior slayer at all. im lvl 86 and done what, 2 dust devils and 5 nech tasks?

of course I don't have a solution but just giving my 2 cents. if others have similar experiences then maybe its worth looking into

[hybrid blaze]

A bit of context: elite CA is supposed to be finished around the time you leave ToA, at around level 80 slayer. That gives you enough opportunity to get the points before resuming slayer, so you get the benefits for the longest time. It does require completing a number of extra CA tasks at that stage, but they should not require slayer.

[midnight dome]

I got elite at 75 slayer right after bofa, its not difficult at all if you have some decent pvm knowledge.

it is a little bit of a grind but there is a lot you can complete, gwd for example has a lot of points and should be fully completable

[quiet schooner]

U can easily get like 150 points just from toa and cox with very minimal effort

A lot of them u don't even need to finish a raid

Although with the ca bloat now u might need to detour a lot for the billybob bosses to get to elites

But it should still be quite doable

[hushed forge]

yeah you are just hurting yourself by seeing elite and thinking "thats insane, i cant do that!"

you're not an "elite" pvmer if you get elite ca's, as others have said its pretty trivial to get even for a new player. dont be afraid to try new things. its a lot easier than it seems

[tall lark]

as i mentioned earlier, I am fully aware i can just go off and get it on my own account.

but this is a guide first and foremost. the point is that in terms of this sequential progression chart, it comes out of nowhere to go from pretty linear focuses to all of a sudden ok have 1k ca points from all these other things. especially factoring in things like TD xp, lots of content skipping/slayer blocking for efficiency etc.

im just saying as the average player following this its very jarring and you get caught off guard

especially as like i mentioned in terms of the progression chart it feels by the time you've done the elite CA you probably already unlocked a dozen unlocks ahead of it. further sequence breaking

[quiet schooner]

Well nothing really changed as far as when ur getting the cas other than the fact that I get an extra 1.5m slayer XP from tds now

So it should be even easier to get elite at that point

Elites has always been early because it is a sizeable increase to slayer xph

[mortal harness]

Hey, one of the authors here. It's mostly just that we integrated as much of the CAs as we could while progressing skilling efficiently, and the reality is that elite CAs give a pretty notable bump to Slayer XP/hr

So there's kinda just this huge cliff at some point where you have to say "OK I really need to have this before doing substantial amounts of Slayer". We decided that after bowfa is that point because it's a lot easier to do things like GWD once you have the item as opposed to before (not saying it's not possible)

It might seem strange for sure but that's why we have accompanying docs ranking the tier list of CAs and you can pick and choose whatever you fancy to get the requirement out of the way. I personally opted for all of the GWD tasks as well as a few of the Jad Challenges tasks, and I found that those + most of easy/medium CAs were able to just about bump me to elite. I'm still only at elite tier now, and I'm satisfied with it because it gives you the best ROI in terms of rewards vs time spent

[dusky fog]

What would you say is the slayer level that upon reaching you should go grind elite CAs before continuing?

I assume it's okay to grab zentyes, synapse, hasta, bandos before you do the elite tier grind, or even as part of it as you eluded too above.

[mortal harness]

barb to 75 str
witchs house, tree gnome village, fight arena, waterfall quest, grand tree, mm1
get ddef
grind out piety
lamp 58 slayer while doing all of the above
do nieve slayer until 100cb (around 73 slayer), should never have to do chaeldar or vannaka
start mm2 until after kruk step
stop, catch 2.5k red chins, chuck from 55 -> 70 in mm2
do zulrah kc, do western provinces hard diary
get hard CA tier unlocked
do pest control until elite void
catch 17.5k more red chins, chuck from 70 -> 92
start cg, get bowfa + 6 armour seeds
after finishing, dump the money on 86 smithing and 83 con
do lumby elite
get fire cape (and infernal cape right after if you're really good)
resume slayer, use bowfa to do demonics and shamans and zammy tasks
should be around 78 slayer at this point, with hard CAs only still
after getting hasta, torture, anguish, go to bandos and get bcp tassets bgs
time for toa until fang + LB
get elite CAs done
now camp slayer straight to 95

[mortal harness]

this plan above should basically have you do all of 78-99 slayer with elite CAs
pretty simple and I think the important thing to note is that basically all of the superiors you will get en route to 99 come after this point

so you get the elite CA benefit for nearly all of your slayer progress
78 might sound like a "high level" but it's really not

[long relic]

Pinned link not working, anyone got an alternative? xxx

[chilly cove]

This is the correct link: https://madssb.github.io/InteractiveGearProg/index.html

[long pewter]

The slayer math after bowfa feels wrong non spooned bclaws is 1m slayer exp which is trident or close enough to trident to wait for it for early Toa.

[midnight dome]

Trident is pretty much irrelevant for toa

[hybrid blaze]

Its not a full guide. It's a chart, without a higher level of detail. There are many many activities that are good to do that are not on here. If you (near) exclusively do what's on this chart you will miss out on most of the game and corresponding progression. I guess you might be feeling that at this step?

[hybrid blaze]

As para said, it's around 78 or slightly higher. I think 80 is a reasonable target

[hybrid blaze]

Yeah, those tiles mean 'start TDs, finish whenever'. Not 'complete TDs'.

[long pewter]

But toa after you start tds but before you get claws is just kinda trolling

[hybrid blaze]

It is not

[dusky fog]

There’s some flexibility in there right? For example, I don’t need torture or hasta to do Bandos first?

[mortal harness]

Yeah you don't

Although the Bandos won't speed up the melee Slayer unless tassets give you a max, which they only would on demonics due to arclight scaling

[dusky fog]

I’m having fun at Bandos right now. Would like to do that first even if it only slightly benefits in slayer at demonics

[mortal harness]

Yea for sure, honestly those zenytes or even any upgrade at all barely matters in GWD because you are hard-stuck by 90 second respawn timer
And if you want to get around that by room-resetting, you are hard-stuck by not having master/GM diary done
So really those upgrades like anguish barely impact kph. I doubt they will even move it by 1 kph lol

[dusky fog]

Even more of a reason for me to do Bandos and hasta before I get back into slayer for TDs then demonics

I already have anguish anyways 🙂

[weary arrow]

hard CA tier before pest control?

i thought it's med

[slate dome]

Hard is +1 over med

Probably why

[fallen raptor]

It saves a bit but idk if hard is easy to get at that stage

If you get a few raids done with people/carries ofc it is

[weary arrow]

ye but getting hard tier before pc, chinning and cg seems kinda unrealistic unless carried hard

and going from med to hard only saves you like 40 minutes at pest control anyway

[drowsy ore]

Cox and tob you can walk to at low levels to leech, but you gotta quest for toa as well

[mortal harness]

Sure might be med instead and then hard later I forget what we ended up deciding after mathing it out

[quiet schooner]

Hards pre sote is kinda difficult to get

Unless u actually go and do all the bozo tasks like bryo obor etc

Like if u clear out the entire easy- med tier maybe but that's very annoying and time consuming to do

[slate dome]

Get like 40 points doing a few kc at nex mass with Ruby bolts and a couple raid carries and you'll be alright 😆

[midnight dome]

I did get hard pre void but I had to get carried through some raids by clannies. I did always want gm longterm though so I didn't mind doing all the bozo tasks

[flint pebble]

I got hard pre void without doing any team content. I did already have all the easy and medium tasks done from when you had to complete the whole tier to get rewards.

[quiet schooner]

yeah id bet if u just did all easy and meds it would be comparatively easy

[dusky fog]

Would it make sense to get scorching bow before K'ril?

[hybrid blaze]

Either way is fine but yeah it's good there

[dusky fog]

@full panther - would it make sense to put Ghommals 3 between these two? Ghommals 2 & 4 are on the chart but 3 is missing. It would make sense to grab it before starting Bandos for the gwd teleport and permitting instances for the CAs while at bandos. I started Bandos without even realizing that I should have had 3 which was my fault, but this would be the spot i think

[full panther]

hi, good question.

Regarding gwd teleport: totally negligible because 5 per day is very generous already.

regarding 0-timing priv instance CAs:
if you can make the 15kc priv instance one 0-time, then thats a >30 min timesave clearly. However, given that these 18pts (only 6 of which are relatively easy) make up <2% of the total pts needed for elite, they are largely unneeded for that tier. going any higher than this is going to require a large time investment that prob dwarves this extra cost of not 0-timing them anyways

[dusky fog]

Thoughtful response. I’m going to grab ghommal 3 anyways since I’m only 20 points off now lol. If I didn’t, I’d probably get to the ghommal 4 step in the chart and still be way off without even having the hard done.

[low stag]

Imo there’s value in getting ghommal 3 just to save time trying to get some of the harder CAs at bandos. You’ll get them passively if you start in the private instance.

[quiet schooner]

Private instances are just better in general and no reason not to always use one

Unlimited food timers is such a huge qol

[full panther]

interesting, i failed to account for that

[low stag]

Yeah even if there wasn’t a time save from an efficiency pov, I’d still consider it worth for the ground timers. It’s so much better to not have to worry about juggling

[midnight dome]

the downside that you can't room reset in priv instance

as in you can start in a priv instance but then you'll probably room reset normal instances towards the end of the trip

but tbh I would probably just aim for elite at that point. it improves gwd bc of room resets even more

[crystal narwhal]

I think for the people following the guide room resetting isn’t a big thing, and the QOL of having the private is bigger imo. (Plus, you can just spam reset at the end of the trip)

[dusky fog]

I’ve done 300 Bandos KC with juggling… and I got to say, it is quite annoying.

[full panther]

hmm could this be correct?

no no its not

[crystal narwhal]

Try private rooms it’s super chill. I just alch all the stuff with ring after a while

[full panther]

ok i give up. its a toss up on if you want the hilt 3 or not for convenience

[dusky fog]

I certainly will right after I get hilt 3. 20 points left to go 💪🏼

[full panther]

at this point i would guess that with more frequent room resetting you could earn back the extra time it costed to go get the third hilt

[dusky fog]

What is this room resetting that you speak of? How does it work

[full panther]

the expected time to kill graardor is <57s with gear prog setup and stats. the kills per hour however must account for the 1 min respawn timer, bringing this to <30 kph. when we have enough room kc however (4 gained per bandos kc), we may skip waiting and forcibly respawn him by leaving and enterring the room for a timesave

[oblique rapids]

can you hop within the room as well?

[full panther]

nope, not available to ironmen iirc

[oblique rapids]

ah okay

[dusky fog]

So after every 5 kills, you can reset for a 1 min time save?

[full panther]

significantly less than 1 min, but yes, assuming 20 room kc is all thats needed

[dusky fog]

At this point in the gear progression, how many extra kills/hr do you think that would gain from the normal 30?

[full panther]

trying to model this atm!

at this point just do whatever you prefer, but having a reliable way to predict kph would be useful anyways

[midnight dome]

it's 35 per reset at hilt 3, 30 at hilt 4

25 at master and 15 at gm

[oblique rapids]

^

and if you have GM by the time you're green logging bandos, you're simply built more different than the other players

[midnight dome]

moons carry

[oblique rapids]

true

[midnight dome]

from experience it's around 1-2 extra kph with room resetting (which is pretty significant for gwd)

[full panther]

hmm

idk what value to put in for T_reset

maybe 20 with waiting for the drop, running to altar, and enterring the room, waiting for graardor to respawn?

[dusky fog]

So I guess for this conversations purposes, the question would be, would you rather get one to two kills more per hour or not have to juggle and have a quicker teleport to the dungeon

[full panther]

    N  Kills per Hour
0  40       31.830239
1  35       31.991875
2  30       32.209961

with TTK=57.1s and T_reset=20s

[midnight dome]

nah you can do both, just priv instance until you have an inventory full of food then reset until food is out

[midnight dome]

I think reset time is shorter than that, my guess would be more like 5-10 seconds

you wait next to altar, if its bad you insta tele and insta enter

[full panther]

oh, as in just go to altar while it dies, prepare to tp if no drop?

[midnight dome]

keep in mind respawn timer only starts when the boss is completely dead so you're not actually waiting extra time for the drop

ye

[full panther]

    N  Kills per Hour
0  40       32.114184
1  35       32.320123
2  30       32.598853
3   ∞       30.742955

hmm

with T_reset = 10

[midnight dome]

sounds about right

[full panther]

T_reset=5:

    N  Kills per Hour
0  40       32.258065
1  35       32.486786
2  30       32.796842
3   ∞       30.742955

[dusky fog]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-confused-math-gif-26401692

[full panther]

it seems the bigger difference is doing it vs. not doing it, rather than the actual room kc required

[dusky fog]

^ ladlor right now

[full panther]

negligible diff?

[midnight dome]

oh I just noticed

gwd respawn timer is 90 seconds not 60

that's why your kph figures are so high

[full panther]

oh fr?

[midnight dome]

ye

[full panther]

bruh

well thanks for letting me know, thats pretty significant hahah

[midnight dome]

ye I had a 2nd look at the formula because 32 kph is very high

I think I got like 28 at most

[full panther]

N =   40: 25.97 kills/hour
N =   35: 26.20 kills/hour
N =   30: 26.52 kills/hour
N =  ∞  : 24.47 kills/hour

model doesn't account for time required for kc, which is substantial tbf, but idk how to model that without it being very wrong

[midnight dome]

seems difficult as trip length varies a lot

experienced players can do 3 hour trips while learners might only get 10

[full panther]

right

[midnight dome]

fwiw for the question of ca's I don't think it's too relevant doing 40 vs 30 kc

[full panther]

i agree 🙂

[midnight dome]

but yeah the model seems about right, if every room reset saves around 80s a 40kc reset saves 8s/kill while a 30kc reset saves 10.67s

[full panther]

this whole process of modelling graardor kph grabbed my attention quite a bit, especially with accounting for trip length and prep time, so i made a heatmap showing how they map out kph

[hybrid blaze]

Nice 😄 the most vital aspect is the colour scale, 21-25 isn't much difference at all

[fallen raptor]

Seems like some heatmap to show big difference and make false claims with 😉

[midnight dome]

I feel like the scale is kind of odd, thats a trip length from like 20 mins to 1hr20 or so

[fair sparrow]

Can you pin the right gear chart please. It doesnt want to load for me

[full panther]

bold statement wtf

kc/hr formula used that doesn't account for triplength or prep time

kc/hr formula that adjusts initial guess based on ratio of time spent at boss to total time

with

with TTK=57.1s, the T_prep ranging from 0.5x 221s (prep time measurement i took with only pewing with bowfa)

[full panther]

the idea was really that a 10 trip length is minimum for like proficiency, and 30 is growing absurdly long (?)

a bit of an arbitrary choice tbh

[midnight dome]

wouldn't call that absurdly long, you can do 3 hour trips if you want

[full panther]

hmm ye

[midnight dome]

also you should barrage goblins from the bridge and hop to get kc

[full panther]

hop n barrage method on first attempt took me 341 ticks to get to bandos

[midnight dome]

I'm surprised

[full panther]

normal pew was 365 ticks

deffo skill issue bcs i fucked up and got hit a few times

[full panther]

https://madssb.github.io/InteractiveGearProg/index.html

the pinned link got updated, and i don't have the privilidges to pin stuff

[slate dome]

Just need to petition for mod

#ladlor2025

[full panther]

oops i can just edit the message lol

that works too

[fallen raptor]

No no, not that you do that, its just that visualizing statistics can be done right or wrong, but this feels a bit shady (scale going from 20 to 25 instead of 0 to 25)

To indicate a smaller/bigger difference

[full panther]

i get what you're saying, in that manipulating axes can be misleading

[fallen raptor]

You can do a lot with visuals

[full panther]

but think about what is even practical here

[fallen raptor]

Yeah

I agree

Its that images like those could be used to influence people in a wrong way

[full panther]

gotcha

[fallen raptor]

(I don't think there is a perfect way to visualise statistics)

Its hard and always comes with setbacks

It's about kp/h on a boss in a medieval themed point and click game from 2 decades ago, so it's not used to manipulate masses of ppl, just something to keep in mind when visualizing stats

But we get off topic here

[vestal jetty]

Is there a preferred order for avernic defender and quiver? Avernic seems helpful for quiver, but I'm not sure about the other way around

[fossil flame]

ive heard quiver gives a bp max with amethyst darts/void

quiver is guarrnteed though so its easy to weave in in a sense beforehand

[vestal jetty]

Havent learned tob yet. How much bping does that involve?

[hot escarp]

you will likely bp maiden, 1/3rd of nylocas boss, and xarpus

id say roughly 4-5 minutes of blowpiping per tob, ~25% of the raid

[low stag]

Do we have an idea of where Yama will fall on this guide?

[hybrid blaze]

Likely late, but it's not certain

[quiet schooner]

Surely has to be after u get synapses

[low stag]

I’m at the ultor ring step and I feel like it would be good to go for now. Right before colo/avernic and shadow

[quiet schooner]

I don't think u will save time going for Yama before ultor and avernic

[low stag]

So maybe here would be a good fit?

[umbral pasture]

is there a reason not to get it before ultor and avernic

does having those for yama save more time than having oathplate for vard

[quiet schooner]

Might be ok to go 100 kc just for death charge but the armor is like 75 hours

According to jagex

[umbral pasture]

granted ultor and avernic are more broadly useful so if you're doing other content maybe you'd rather have them first

[quiet schooner]

I don't think the armor does that much tbh

Especially if ur just gonna do toa and cox after

[full panther]

yama uses ultor or nah?

ok rough numbers

diff numbers source: https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=RogueStrawberryScrawled

yama after ultor for sure

[neat sparrow]

Could be before avernic though?

[umbral pasture]

waow

i should really get started on ultor

[full panther]

oop this only accounts for oathplate. the rest of the rewards i dont know well

[neat sparrow]

That's it besides death charge scroll which is soft guaranteed at 100kc

[umbral pasture]

and doesn't do anything at vard to my understanding

[full panther]

oh neat

[neat sparrow]

Helps at stuff like toa, but already have it before shadow grind probably

[quiet schooner]

Im not sure how useful it is at toa

It only gives u something at kephri? Maybe baba

It's pretty useful at Colo tho id think

[full panther]

more colo delay cope for me

[indigo hollow]

I doubt it truly changes the conclusion here, but it’s worth noting that the increased slash defense is meaningful at vard

And is not accounted for by a standard dps calc

[hasty berry]

Is there anywhere bgs is actually used besides tob now?

[quiet schooner]

toa?

[forest knot]

cm speeds

[hasty berry]

Horn elder better

Yeah cm teams is good

[quiet schooner]

horn elder at toa 💀

i guess

[hasty berry]

I could see just skipping bandos if you have friends and can get consistent Yama+toa partners

[quiet schooner]

but ur giving up an inv slot for it

[hasty berry]

It’s better than bgs

[full panther]

i did see bandos skip proposed, but surely you want bgs in ur repertoire unless you're hyper specialized anyways

[dusky fog]

What spec weapon would you use at Yama for the Bandos skip?

[low stag]

Isn’t ember light a good option?

[dusky fog]

Think 3 emberlight specs

[slate dome]

duke?

[full panther]

i dont have any informed opinion on this atm

yama is spec reduction reliant boss, or?

[hasty berry]

Yeah bgs is quite good at Duke isn’t it

[slate dome]

bis I thought

Its about the only place I can think of atm lol

[full panther]

dont the tobbers bring both anyways, or does the horn genuinely solve this

[hasty berry]

Bis is horn elder, second bis is horn dwh, 3 emberlight is 3rd option

You get a lot of spec bc kills are 2-3 minutes and you get 2+ death charge per kill

And 2 ppl collectively to drain it

[dusky fog]

Bandos skip person isn’t going to have elder. Possibly has dwh

Can always get a teammate with either

I suppose

[slate dome]

idk man, the people that try and do weird pvm skips are normally the type to camp cox for 4930493043 hours to get tbow

[hasty berry]

I wouldn’t write a guide assuming ur friends got ur back, but at Yama it’s a safe assumption

[slate dome]

they might have maul 😄

[dusky fog]

Would just need called out that it assumes duo with some extra help you wouldn’t have on your own doing solo methods

[somber dagger]

what you think about faceguard skip?

[hasty berry]

Faceguard skip seems very reasonable

Bc same str as oathplate and then it’s in the bin anyways after nex

Seems completely pointless to get faceguard now

[somber dagger]

yee agree

[dusky fog]

I feel a primal urge to defend Bandos because I just did the grind not too long ago 😭 but na jk aside I did get pet so I don’t regret

[somber dagger]

gotta need it for torva

and bgs still have sues

[quasi juniper]

Can you horn buff yourself, or does this only apply in 2+?

[hasty berry]

you can horn yourself but you need another person there

so you can't horn yourself in solos

[normal prism]

Is it really true that it's never worth to get the titan prayer scrolls?

[low stag]

They’re in the most recent progression chart so I’m assuming that means they’re worth

[woven nova]

before cg prob not

[normal prism]

Am I using an outdated chart then, cus it's not in my bookmarked one

[woven nova]

sometimes the mage one is just same breakpoints for less prayer

[normal prism]

oh shit im blind, mb

[woven nova]

idk ab range one tho

[low stag]

https://madssb.github.io/InteractiveGearProg/index.html

[normal prism]

it's there wtf, spamming for no reason, sry guys

[full panther]

i realize the expected kc for all oathplace pieces i use here is incredibly wrong lol

anyways redid things with using mean kc for all pieces, including using shards, is 650 kc (src: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1kqmsbh/yama_ironman_completion_statistics_repost_with/).

Using setup detailed at https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=RogueStrawberryScrawled, the expected time to kill diff of ultor to berserker ring(i) is 8s. Corresponding for vardorvis with oathplate armor and bandos armor is 10.5s. Note that this diff fails to account for vardorvis healing throughout the fight, the number might realistically be larger. 650 kills for full oathplate leaves 1.4 hours to be saved at Yama by routing vardorvis first. 1088 kills at vardorvis leaves at least 2.4 hours to be saved at Vardorvis by routing Yama first. The numbers suggest that Routing Yama before Vardorvis is preferable.

[hasty berry]

In those 2 setups Vards accuracy goes from 67.7% to 54.6% so the reduction in lifesteal is going to be significant

[waxen harness]

In my personal back-of-the-envelope calc, double bclaws slightly beat a single BGS (assuming full burn, 50 spec = 60 spec, BGS always hits its average hit, etc) and are the reason I'm not going back to bandos

I can't say for sure without a comprehensive spec calculator (if such a thing exists...) but if claws at duke haven't been examined then they may be worth a look.

[slate dome]

Why can't you just put this into a dps calc?

[fickle arrow]

smth smth only 3 people can calc burning claws dps

[midnight dome]

Pretty sure bgs wins by a big margin at duke because it sets your cycle up nicely

Emberlight -> BGS means you don't lose ticks for quite a bit

If all you have is a 4tick weapon you'll lose a bunch more ticks

[normal prism]

So if Yama is pre ultor, I feel like it can move quite far up the chart no?

[full panther]

one thing to keep in mind is that emberlight has a 1.6x multiplier on the strength bonus, so extra str adds up quickly

[normal prism]

Oh damn okay

I was just thinking that on task, the only upgrades between zenytes/synapse step and ultor are prims, rancour and Infernal cape

[full panther]

example https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=PrisonZamorakOhns
the setup on the right is a 13% dps upgrade

[normal prism]

But that x1.6

Oh gloves as well

Avernic isnt fair tho

In terms of where it goes in the list

[full panther]

true that

marginal reduction, avernic is not much +str gain

[normal prism]

True

[full panther]

thinking Oathplate here, and maybe a 5 hr detour before the slayer grind gets going

its 90 ish kills on avg for that death charge upgrade?

[normal prism]

Thats post slayer no?

[full panther]

yes, im thinking split the dc upgrade and oathplate

and ignore the horn for being too niche

[normal prism]

Oh I see what u mean

[raven drift]

re:650 kills to finish oathplate, that's gotta be solos right? or am i trippin

[full panther]

correct

the actual kc u get by dividing by ur contribution%

e.g. 650/0.5 = 1300. Also note that some lockbox math is not holding up perfectly anymore at that point

[raven drift]

yeah the duos lockboxes thing is interesting. i aint no math surgeon

[midnight dome]

~15% extra chance to get a unique item from lockboxes in duos vs solos

[full panther]

oh wtf i missed this

[low stag]

Where did you find that? Wiki shows 1/600 for me

[full panther]

its cropped screenshot of the lockbox droptable

[low stag]

I’m dumb lol, thank you

[full panther]

i was not aware that the lockbox dropped the pieces directly tbh, so i shared here

[midnight dome]

Ye it adds up, 1300/30 lockboxes*1/134

[candid haven]

Is the dry protection of being able to smith any of the three pieces of oathplate armour with Oathplate shards and Infernal shale worth accounting for in avg time to completion?

[midnight dome]

Yes you're on rate for about 2.5 pieces iirc when you get enough shards

Median completion kc goes down by about 130kc (solo)

[hollow cobalt]

Only needing 2/3 to finish cuts the average KC in half

[faint crane]

How do you guys track what your contribution is per kill? Is it just a rough estimate or is there some sort of damage tracker you can use?

[long pewter]

All the drops have fixed qty you can see what % of the solo drop you get

[faint crane]

Ahh I see

[quiet schooner]

u can realistically get an avernic as soon as u have a dscim

[low stag]

What else could you possibly want before going for avernic if you’re following that chart lol

I’m one item away from that part of the guide and I can’t think of anything else I’d need to send tob

[quiet schooner]

the only req for avernic is friends

[hearty briar]

need a guide for that pls

[raven drift]

Ye it adds up, 1300/30 lockboxes*1/134

is that 1 - ( (133/134)^(1300/30) ) ? ~27%?

[toxic harbor]

If following this progression order, how is con being funded so early?

[slate dome]

You only do like 70 con early right?

Its just mh

[toxic harbor]

75 I think for the jewel box, I'm just about to hit that point of progression and only have like 2m

[slate dome]

2m probably enough for teak MHs

[toxic harbor]

Ooh interesting, throw max teak on kingdom I guess?

I need to find a decent way to upkeep kingdom tbh

[quiet schooner]

I think u chop teaks on fossil Island for the early con but I don't remember for sure

[somber dagger]

ye you do

1100, but you use most of it for plank sack

well basically everything

[fossil flame]

its insane amount of hallowed sep

[low stag]

So general consensus is yama before ultor? Asking because im on the ultor step rn lmao

[indigo hollow]

Threw together a quick sim for vard that includes healing from damage done as well as the changing defense and strength throughout the fight. I'm getting an average TTK of 109.36 s in your Bandos setup and 97.42 s in your Oathplate setup, so a difference of 11.94 s per kill.

Though it's worth pointing out that at that point in one's account, you probably have a nox hally if you have prims, feros, and a rancour

Probably bandos tassets too, which are marginally better

If you use nox hally in both and bandos tassets in place of blood tassets, the comparison is 105.82 s to 95.15 s (10.67 s in favor of oathplate)

[midnight dome]

Ye something like that although you get half those rolls in solo too so the gain is only ~13.5%

[full panther]

Draft for post-Yama version. Oathplate after misc strength gear and before Vardorvis. DC2 upgrade after Emberlight, on the assumption that its a single-digit hour grind, and that getting it now rather than postponing would incur at worst not that many extra hours, that could probably be recouperated during slayer with extra DC2.

[full panther]

i snagged the ladlorchart.com domain for added convenience. old URL works too

[formal breach]

this is clean AF. i love charts to 'tick' off and this hits the mark, especially the right click option on items.

functionally this is clean AF, helpful AF to have all the gear and the ability to link right to the wiki just in case. it's soo nice. Well done my friend.

[toxic harbor]

Yeh I'm gonna be using this when I'm a little lost and looking for direction (which happens a lot)

Is elite void actually still worth going for?

[full panther]

used in ToB and for throwing the chins. maybe has some other niche uses too

[toxic harbor]

Yeh I was thinking for chins it might be best, which is a bit of a shame 😂

Is there room for perilous moon sets in here? May not be efficient but I'd like to greenlog them as an early/midgame challenge

[full panther]

blood moon is a "go for it if you want" kind of thing. Personally for me i got two bcp's before tassets which sorted me out for the bandosian components i need for the Torva, so i padded those out with blood moon ones myself because i like the content.

[toxic harbor]

Where would you suggest slotting them in?

(Sorry, I'm not particularly experienced, but like using stuff like this as guard rails to figure out next steps whilst still playing for fun)

[drowsy ore]

Well you need to do 25kc at some point for ca

[full panther]

those that rush moons usually go to barrows for tank gear, which i advise against, so i dont know how you'd merge in blood moons here. do it some time after getting reasonably strong. maybe post-hasta?

[slate dome]

After bandos/hasta/tort probably best

[midnight dome]

^ reason being its really surprisingly ass without gear/levels

Anytime I've heard someone actually try with barrows gear and bad stats it sucked

[toxic harbor]

I'm on the PM quest now, is it viable to complete without actually having tank from barrows then?

[slate dome]

Sure

Wouldn't do more than needed for the quest though

[woven nova]

ya just normal melee gear

[somber dagger]

Why toa before Titans? You dont use fang nor lightbearer on titans?

[fossil flame]

wat made the change to get oathplate before ultor? thought ppl yday were saying get ultor then yama

[full panther]

i fucked up a calc and ultor before yama seemed better

[fickle arrow]

fang is prob ur bis with the gear u have at that point, so yes u do use it

[full panther]

idk if ppl were considering the alternative for other reasons than that too. anyhow, oathplate into ultor is the one that minimizes total time the most

[slate dome]

If you consider faceguard not being worth picking up, oath before ultor makes more sense

[thick spoke]

What's the benefit of having a small detour for the dc upgrade before your slayer grind? Does it save that much time or is it just a "might aswell"?

[fickle arrow]

its pretty big for a guaranteed drop

(semi-guaranteed)

[full panther]

15% extra spec per minute, 42% increase in specs per min. vw specs sit at 22dps on nechs while emberlight on 12 dps, so speccing as often as possible gud

didnt do any more math than that, i genuinely dont know how to make a solid time estimate here

so its just as early as possible to benefit the varying usecases it has the most

[hollow cobalt]

I mean with that based on napkin math, you get an extra spec every 3 min. Every time you spec, it's worth roughly 2 ember hits so you gain 2.4s every 180s, so 1%

[hasty berry]

No way faceguard is worth getting anymore right

Basilisk’s suck

[fickle arrow]

wasnt the hunter crossbow good on those?

probably still an eternity taking task

[somber dagger]

No

You melee them

[hollow cobalt]

I was just about to unlock them on the hc, but maybe they can wait

[fickle arrow]

with what weapon?

[somber dagger]

Hasta

[slate dome]

hasta

seems fine if you don't plan on doing early yama

But if you do faceguard seems meh

[fickle arrow]

im pretty sure the sunlight crossbow is more dps

[indigo hollow]

If you consider the bolts zero-time, sure

[slate dome]

dragon knives good if you consider them zero time

[indigo hollow]

Actually I’m not even sure this is true

[somber dagger]

Nope

Hasta more dps

[indigo hollow]

I think sunlight cb is just better than other ranged options

Besides dragon knives I think

[fickle arrow]

this is what i get

https://i.imgur.com/KnlCYsE.png vs https://i.imgur.com/6HlIDZ6.png

[indigo hollow]

Hasta on crush

[fickle arrow]

Ah

[indigo hollow]

And v’s shield/mirror shield

[fickle arrow]

i mean v shield does nothing

but i wasnt aware it was crush

cause ive seen people use fang

so i assumed it was stab

i said nothing then

[indigo hollow]

Yeah fang is just op lol

[full panther]

my understanding is u fang em

thats not optimal or?

[indigo hollow]

Fang’s a bit better yeah, but if you don’t have fang then it’s hasta

Or zombie axe if you’re down bad

[fickle arrow]

tbh i spent longer getting the task than killing them, id hate going dry there

[hasty berry]

Don’t you fang them?

Fang should be really good bc you can’t use defender

[hasty berry]

I went 4300 kc

[coral fractal]

echo'ing jelloranger at the top of the thread- explanation of orger would be really nice for those new to the server who see this chart as the holy text 😄

[fickle arrow]

got mine in 3kc

the CA completion was still in chat when i got the drop

[midnight dome]

I wen't 3k for that stupid jaw

So many ppots down the drain, would not recommend

[fickle arrow]

just for oathplate helm to replace it

[low stag]

I ended up spooning oathplate helm last night, it is better than face guard right?

[midnight dome]

It's fine tbg

[low stag]

Face guard @ 36 KC
Oathplate helm at 6 KC
LMAO

[midnight dome]

Faceguard still better for nex

[fickle arrow]

defensive wise it has less ranged defence, but otherwise similar (negative mage/range attack) but better slash att

str is same

[fossil flame]

u could still get serp but i dont think itd be worth using for yama

[fickle arrow]

unless u go 2k kc for serp and have 400k scales

[low stag]

And no prayer bonus. So other than nex it’s a replacement for face guard?

[midnight dome]

It's a replacement anywhere you slash if you have both

Also puts lance on slash ahead if you have more oath for cox

[low stag]

This is so cursed lmao

[fossil flame]

if ur doing mp2 trios oathplate helm still has significantly better melee/range defence

so maybe still worth using only have 3 less magic defence

[midnight dome]

Yeah to be clear, what I meant was if you have both you'd take faceguard

If you only have oath you use that

[full panther]

someone on reddit just flagged ring of suffering placement as unusual to which i agree. my theory is i at one point had one or more zulrah uniques there, and then i moved em, and now suffering is lagging behind. Or is there any other reason it would just be there on its own?

[lunar lodge]

Isn't it kind of immaterial to space zenytes out at all? If you're doing demonics, aren't you gonna basically do them as you get black demon tasks until you have all 4 zenytes and it's really more of an order thing?

[full panther]

i agree with the sentiment here, but there is also some notion of "urgency". like the suffering is dramatically uninteresting until zulrah

remaining zenytes are interesting for toa. in this way the ros isnt projected as falsely important. im open to revisiting how this is conveyed potentially

[lunar lodge]

True. I can understand that

I was just thinking from my experience doing slayer in that block last year, the zenytes were done loooong before the tds also.

[full panther]

Right

[indigo hollow]

Potentially a hot take, but I don’t even think RoS is very interesting for Zulrah. I’ve done a decent amount of Zulrah with normal recoils, and it was completely fine (at least when I used the plugin that notifies you when your ring breaks)

RoS is purely QOL there

[full panther]

never did that myself so not familiar. there is no capacity problems, cutting trips shorter than otherwise?

still, probably the time cost of getting a RoS wouldnt outweigh gain of maximizing trip length lol

[indigo hollow]

I usually brought a backup ring or just broke my ring manually when banking if it was almost out of charges

So worst case was losing one inventory slot

[full panther]

noted. mage+ range, or bowfa camp?

[slate dome]

Ros nice to have in diff places though

Gwd, corp etc

[indigo hollow]

I was bowfa camping in that case

And yeah RoS is still good to have long-term

[full panther]

oh ok. am surprised to see two recoils is sufficient

[indigo hollow]

I was also leaving mage prayer up when I didn’t need to pray ranged

Which meant fewer snakelings actually hit me

[full panther]

i see, actively flicking it, or just in idle times?

[indigo hollow]

Just camping it when mage snakelings were on me and Zulrah wasn’t actively ranging me

Could have flicked but cba

[midnight dome]

someone didn't watch the newest pecanbread vid

Ultor is better at corp

[slate dome]

That's with ralos method only right?

I thought normal fang tanking still prefers ros

I need to go rewatch I think

[hybrid blaze]

Yes this is fine

People really are just that obsessed with ros

[midnight dome]

Don't think so but halberd+ralos is a lot better

[full panther]

[[ralos]]

[last echo]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Ralos

[full panther]

this?

[midnight dome]

Yes

[indigo hollow]

[[toenails]]

[last echo]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tonalztics_of_ralos

[full panther]

anyhow ill remedy the RoS by moving it pre-zulrah uniques. ill admit im tempted to just remove it now too

i haven't caved into like moving fire cape yet, so RoS seems like a reasonable hill to also die on

[midnight dome]

that's gonna give you more engagement on reddit for sure

if you remove suffering

[full panther]

i am a fiend for engagement i can not bullshit anyone

i dont think people would mind that much tbh tho

[midnight dome]

if it's not at all there people might not notice

[full panther]

exactly

[midnight dome]

kinda funny looking at your post giving a disclaimer that noone is forced to follow this etc etc and people still complain about skilling on there

[hybrid blaze]

Just put a ring of recoil in its place. Literally put it on the progression

[full panther]

Happens. The disclaimer is not for curbing criticism per se, its more intended as i don't want to mock the way anyone plays by asserting some more "right" way to do things

[midnight dome]

yeah some people get offended by pointing out good routing

[full panther]

i think it goes the other way a little too, getting too stuck up on what is ideal routing too

[midnight dome]

I guess I should call it efficient or something because good has a value judgment

[full panther]

like culturally (?)

or atleast it can

[midnight dome]

I've had some people get offended at me saying stuff like "this nex team is bad, 8min trio, imma find another"

because they can't do it any faster

just being in vc and nexing with randoms, noone from there was in the team

[lunar lodge]

People who KNOW they are not doing the "best" thing still get very offended when told they're not doing the "best" thing... in my experience trying to help people.

Even if I present it like "hey do what you want but I want to make sure you know about this more efficient alternative"

[midnight dome]

I'm not even giving unsolicited advice, just complaining about bad teammates lul. safe to say I switched clans

[slate dome]

What's your thoughts on face guard?

[hybrid blaze]

I don't have opinions on it right now. I'm waiting a few weeks before getting to draw conclusions on yama

Committing early just means being among the first people who are wrong

[soft rune]

Fyi Wdr discord says ros is bis for inferno first capers. Might not want to remove it from the guide entirely.

[full panther]

true that

[midnight dome]

Very debatable imo

I think lb suffering rotg are all equal

Up to preference

[hollow cobalt]

I don't think so.

Suffering just better than all of those

[indigo hollow]

I liked ROTG for the holy wrench effect, but it a) probably wasn’t needed and b) is probably even less important now that prayer regens exist

[soft rune]

Lb troll for first cape. Def from suffering probably better than 4 prayer to first capers. Especially if you have Regen pots

[fickle drum]

I was discussing & simming bandos drops w/ trisk & I don't think getting full bandos during bgs grind really holds up after yama. There's a ~55% chance that you get the tassets passively (which are the more relevant piece as it can give up to 2 max hits with emberlight). & I don't think the argument that you should do bandos early for torva really holds up when it's routed before rigour in the progression.

[soft rune]

But I worked so hard to get my full bandos

[fossil flame]

with a setup of like bandos ultor inf cape fero prims (+ avernic)

idt tassets give any max hits

ur 66 regardless i think

or 64 without ultor

[fickle drum]

yeah just checked, this is true but if you lose avernic or rancour you do lose 2 max hits from not having tassies + you're going to be doing other demons after bandos grind so you might lose a max hit here and there from scb breakpoints/missing str levels/specific gear setups

there is definitely a time save for tassies but I don't think it's enough to go for them after bgs

[terse matrix]

shouldnt there be anothe synapse in here to make a purging staff for yama ?

or is melee just better ?

[latent oyster]

I don't think there's any situation you'll need/want both scobo and purging staff at the same time currently?

[woven nova]

yeah just turn scobo into staff

u dont need 2 in duos anyways im p sure

[terse matrix]

ow u can switch those up after u made them ?

[hybrid blaze]

Yes

[fallen raptor]

Why is the death charge before wildy bosses?

Oh wait its toa right after, that's where its useful right?

[woven musk]

Can help with Spindel/Venenatis dwh too I guess

[full panther]

Interesting, thanks. Many brought this one up as dead, sounds like the numbers back that up then

RIP to a cool looking armor set lol

[thick spoke]

I was under the assumption bandos was just a do untill hilt then move on, even before Yama, so that if you got hilt first you'd just be a Torso Timmy untill you were ready for Nex?

And just use obby legs where it mattered

[full panther]

the chart has stated they're worth going for. it could be it was never worth because +1str really isn't huge. I consistently find it hard to appropriately value items for slayer

[thick spoke]

I've not found a lot of places where I've been missing out on a max hit by not having tassets, but I suppose it's quite gear/stat dependant

You can also just opt to use blood moon tassets if you happen to have those for the PM enjoyers

[crystal narwhal]

I was a torso user from 2017-early 2025. Only place I think I felt a diff was toa and vardorvis

[full panther]

im a fan of bcp flicks in my chambers solos but one likely makes do without that

just reduce items brought and the noprep still works

[crystal narwhal]

Yeah it’s good, but if I got bgs tassets I’d probably just get oath and wait for torva to do bandos

[full panther]

i'll probably remove bandos later today. Not fully eager to see what the community response to that could be, but the less bloat the more reputable. also gotta trust that people keep doing what they want lol

i did moons bcs i wanted the +str and wanted to check out moons

the bandosian components will implicitly be understood is obtained by whatever is the best means by the time you need them

[fickle drum]

I'm not saying it's necessarily dead, just that I find it hard to see where it saves time if you already get unlucky

[thick spoke]

I think if you're gonna present a chart like this, when you're quite heavily influenced by Bruhsailer (in my eyes, idk if you have more motivations) and discussions around an efficient pathing, you should take the community response with a grain of salt

[fickle drum]

someone would have to run far more complex math to be sure

[thick spoke]

especially when it comes from reddit

[full panther]

yeye

[dusk needle]

Morning guys, can I just check something, what is the expected crush weapon to complete araxxor with? Can't see bludgeon, etc. on the chart. Maybe I'm missing something?

[slate dome]

Hasta

Bludgeon if you have it, but not really worth going out your way to get

Though sire is much better now than it used to be

[fickle arrow]

hasta on crush is very servicable, got the coagulated venom in like the first 10kc so its not bad by any means

[dusk needle]

I did a small amount of kc with hasta and didn't enjoy it at all. Although, I was spooned a rancour so that made it worthwhile. Is it worth grinding for nox hally?

[slate dome]

Yes

[midnight dome]

if you have a bunch of whips from slayer those work fine

[fickle arrow]

bludgeon isnt gonna change anything about the fight compared to hasta outside of making it a lil bit faster

[toxic harbor]

For the imbued cape, why Zamorak and not the others?! Heathens.

[opal dagger]

zammy godwars is my guess. (also looks the best )

[craggy granite]

Did I miss something as to why spellbook swap is after zmi? Is it cause boosting magic lvl with magic pots when needed there?

[woven nova]

either is fine

[midnight dome]

seems odd indeed

[craggy granite]

also what’s that near bandos is that hilt?

[midnight dome]

you can right click to see the item

[fickle drum]

you need runes for magic xp probably

[midnight dome]

but ye it's bandos hilt

[full panther]

i do intend sbs is available for the zmi grind 😮

thats not the case atm?

[midnight dome]

92 magic by zmi is kinda hard to get fwiw

[craggy granite]

Wrath Runes come before sbs

[midnight dome]

assuming you do minimal slayer and alch during 98 agility

[full panther]

hmm i see

[midnight dome]

although you don't really need wraths pre 80 slayer

[craggy granite]

You should have the runes for slayer magic from sepulcher

[midnight dome]

and I suppose you'd get the magic level by then

[full panther]

how is zmi post run energy changes?

[craggy granite]

zmi imo is after sep and some slayer

[full panther]

still reliant on vv?

[midnight dome]

you can definitely get away with super energies

its a little slower but not too bad

[midnight dome]

you still vv but only every 5th lap or so ime

maybe more if you glassblow

[full panther]

i've made a note to have a look at sbs and wrath. seems logical to me sbs comes first if that is indeed feasible

[craggy granite]

I think Bandos stays because it’s combat achievements you can do

[full panther]

bgs stays, the armor may not

[craggy granite]

It’s not really needed though?

Like it can happen whenever more or less

[opal dagger]

Only exception is tds from what I can tell. Not sure how many people are doing tds before 80 slayer.

[craggy granite]

bgs can be grinded out later technically too, right?

[fickle drum]

you really don't get that much gp from sep to 99 cuz half of it is pre 92

[craggy granite]

I mean isn’t it like 40-50k blood and soul runes?

That’s how many hours of barrage

[opal dagger]

How many runes do you get from cg

[midnight dome]

realistically you'll run into arclight charge issues

so I would expect people to leave them blocked until later

[craggy granite]

I assumed that the sepulchre grind got enough runes to get to ~92 magic after all the alching, did it not?

[midnight dome]

it should, I got 90 magic from sep alching alone

and that was before mage's book was worth getting

so doing a little slayer should get you there

[craggy granite]

Cool, so it’s a bit of slayer again before zmi after for sbs

And then wrath runes

[midnight dome]

I definitely tried to squeeze every alch tbf

[craggy granite]

Probably put wrath runes either with the sbs or right after imo

[midnight dome]

bruhsailer assumes 89 magic from sep

[craggy granite]

Bandos I see myself mostly going for the CAs and then if I get anything great, otherwise I’ll be doing my Zammy gwds for hasta

I’m kind of thinking to myself I’d get more out of just having deadeye than bgs for all of that subsequent content

[midnight dome]

bgs is great for toa

unless you want to do strictly teams and have someone else bgs or horn+maul

[craggy granite]

How much of the difference is bgs vs bone dagger?

I do like bgs there, I just assume that if I’m doing for just ring & fang, I could rock up with the bone dagger or go teams

[fallen raptor]

What potions was the amulet for?

Want to push to 90 and debating on getting the amulet first or just afk make pots now

[slate dome]

Barely think its worth using opposed to just making more pots, but the usual answer is any pots you're making to actually use

[fallen raptor]

Oh yeah it only adds doses

[midnight dome]

it's quite a bit better but probably servicable otherwise

[midnight dome]

I use it for ppot, super rest, brews, surge pots

[fallen raptor]

Yeah I wanted to go for pot storage but I actually cleaned by bank a while ago

Guess amulet first

[midnight dome]

annoyingly you still need to make jade amulets whcih have so many different steps

[slate dome]

Id go goggles first probably

Then reagent pouch

[craggy granite]

I think doing Moons CAs, Bandos CAs, and Yama double death charge and seeing what I get and kind of prioritizing things according to that makes the most sense in my head

where it's not really going for any super specific gear

but in the KC needed to do those things, odds are something will reward while making progress toward elite CAs

but I don't know how to actually phrase or display that in any meaningful way

just kind of putting Bandos at the Yama double death charge in my personal pathing

[midnight dome]

I would not include the specific bosses to do for cas

gets way too complicated

[craggy granite]

valid

[vague tusk]

might be worth adding SGS at some point now? it's pretty good at colo/yama, and it's probably going to keep getting better as they keep adding forced max hits at various places in the game. obviously it's not necessary at all but basically nothing in the last couple of rows is

[fallen raptor]

Why pouch? Thats just a Qol right? No added storage space or more doses

[low stag]

Makes gathering some secondaries a lot quicker right?

[slate dome]

Because I value QoL pretty high

[midnight dome]

it speeds up herblore slightly

[slate dome]

It does, but you barely ever actually need to gather 2nds. I mainly like it for making pots

[midnight dome]

I was sceptical because its more clicks per banking but its definitely feels nice

[vague tusk]

bank locking really helps the pouch out

[craggy granite]

Most of the time using dps specs and having those on hand is just better iirc. Though I’m not sure about that for Collo

[midnight dome]

unless you want to burn blood fury charges sgs is really good for colo

if you're perfect ofc you never take damage

[craggy granite]

yeah, sgs for colo makes sense and I can definitely see going for that there and doing an earlier colo

[midnight dome]

I also like it over claws for yama tbh

the run is kinda long so rather have long trips

[hollow cobalt]

bp spec also seems fine enough

or just 84 brews

[craggy granite]

But yeah, BP Spec healing gets there

Having blowpipe and extra restore probably better

?

[midnight dome]

I guess, I hated blowpipe for the mage minon

2tick attack speed is awkward

[hollow cobalt]

Don't think it's really worth spending 25 hrs grinding a sgs or whatever just for that

[midnight dome]

probably not

[vague tusk]

in terms of time no chance but if you've made it past rigour i think you've made it past the point when you care about the time value of items. SGS adds breadth to your character power which is really neat, not just a few stat points

[hollow cobalt]

Might as well throw in an eldritch staff too just for fun ig

[vague tusk]

fair enough i guess - probably add it on the same step as heart/vbow/venator ring because you do save some time by using a mega over bowfa there. it's still a nifty utility thing to get around there for miscellaneous future grinds

[craggy granite]

How long is v bow supposed to be?

[slate dome]

20h or something like that?

[full panther]

Oh neat, dossier droprates buffed from 1/20 to 1/17

[somber dagger]

30 hours

Depends on gear ofc but only bofa proboly takes around 30 hours

[craggy granite]

1/17 which becomes like 1/50 with 30% contrib for dossier?
odds seem really high of finishing it up within 100 kc

at that point

given the dry protection

that's like what, 5-10 hrs of Yama for double death charge?

[glossy niche]

Just wanna chip in on the sbs discussion earlier today: admittedly I didn't do sepulchre to 98, I stopped at 95 for the moment. But post CG, semi-post sepulchre I'm at 89 magic without doing a ton of slayer. It's pretty unrealistic to get to 92 by the time of zmi (pretty much post CG) imo. However super energy pots do more than fine for that. Sbs isn't really needed for that grind with the agility changes.

[hybrid blaze]

Fwiw I think it's not that unrealistic. 72-95 at sep is about half the loot from 72-98, so also half the magic xp in alchs. Those last three levels give you something like another 1-1.5m magic xp. 89-92 is 1.7m

[glossy niche]

I did some napkin math on that and came to the same conclusion. If I went back to mage arena to get mage book I'd be around 92 by the time of 98 agility. Just wanted to give perspective for people like me who don't want to do the 98 agil grind in one go and want to progress.

[half quail]

That was exactly my experience. 98 agility at sep got me to 91 mage (with 10k rune bolts left over) and MTA got me to 92.

[soft rune]

Lmao every time this guide gets posted to Reddit

[somber dagger]

No moons?=bad list