Gear Progression Chart

[livid socket]

pretty sure ultor gets like 4 specs across the fight and lb gets 6 so it should be weighed in lbs favor

Lb
Base ttk: 70.8s
1st hammer saves 5s
2nd hammer saves 3.7s
Ttk after 2 hammers: 62.1s

Ultor
Base ttk: 66.3s
1st hammer saves 6.4s
Ttk after 1 hammer: 59.9s

was all napkin math based on calcs so possible i made a mistake somewhere

but i averaged the timesaves based on the probability of the spec hitting, average damage it does and the time it takes (3.6s for dwh)

[full panther]

conclusion is ultor sweeps?

[livid socket]

for the 2nd spec i took into account both scenarios of 1st spec hitting and not hitting and averaged the results

someone better at math than me can chime in if thats not correct but oh well

yeah ultor just wins

this was also in max melee with lance so id imagine ultor is even better in worse gear

[full panther]

damn

[livid socket]

you lose a higher % of your max hit by using lb whereas the hammer accuracy doesnt change too much with worse melee gear

[full panther]

feel like i learn something new every day. i really thought lb dominates

good to know though, i will not be stressing lb for more cox anymore then, just ultor asap

i reaaaally dont like toa lol

[livid socket]

yeah i think even before ultor, b ring vs lb was kind of a wash

like you could go either way

changes like guaranteed hammer on tek also heavily favors ultor

[full panther]

wdr is a bit hardline on lb, but i suspect lb maybe is just more valuable in teams more than it is for solo..?

[livid socket]

yeah perhaps, i think you want to 0 def the hand

[full panther]

own calcs always gonna rule superior than taking someones word for at face value

[livid socket]

i have 0 insight into efficient team raids tho

[crystal narwhal]

Lb’s strength both in toa and cox is somewhat it being simple right? No ring switch, +1 inv, more specs (fun)

[livid socket]

i think its a bit better in toa due to higher defenses across the board and higher impact of landing your specs

also stuff like keris using spec

and 2 down wardens (i think) requiring lb

but assuming perfect play, ultor is probably still better

at the very least as a switch for the two melee rooms

i dont care enough to calc it for toa though lol

lb can have situational value like where you would have died if you didnt have enough spec to keris at whatever moment

[crystal narwhal]

Seems harder to calc too

With adren, spec resetting on room end, more def nps

[livid socket]

also having zcb makes lb very good

[crystal narwhal]

Shadow being 4x

Yeah that too

[livid socket]

way more factors to consider so someone better at math can take that on

[full panther]

this does get me a bit excited to keep grinding my ultor atleast :d

[livid socket]

my impression is that ultor+magus (ultor+lb if zcb) is better assuming perfect play

but lb camp isnt like trolling

the gap is bigger in cox

[frozen olive]

@misty hornet

[misty hornet]

Legend! thank you

[undone flame]

so out of curiousity why is barrows/pm gear not in the progression list?

[slate dome]

Don't think it would see much use in that route

[hybrid blaze]

its almost or entirely useless, the progression list only includes upgrades

[livid socket]

not worth getting

[lament merlin]

may i ask why is barrows/pm gear not worth getting?

[crystal narwhal]

Barrows especially is a lot of hours for gear that isnt good

With how fast you can get bofa and bandos, barrows is just not good

[mortal harness]

Was never good basically. The only two specific items that are good are Ahrim's top and Ahrim's bottom, and hunting 2 specific items takes so long compared to just using mystics. Or, if you do want a damage% item, just grind bloodbark

(which is faster)

[crystal narwhal]

If you find it fun, go ahead, but if you want to get to end game pvm it isnt worth your time.

Barrows is for bingos and collection log after you have shadow. (*except for 1 set for mory diary)

[lament merlin]

i see, thanks

[open spade]

is zombie axe worth to get?

[upbeat pendant]

In terms of efficient routing like no not really.

Barraging to get it is pretty quick but also hasta works just as well and is useful at toa/for your eventual lance.

[analog mist]

Just curious on the reasoning for plank sack/log basket in the spots they're in on the progression? Sorry I can't figure out how to search in a thead

[upbeat pendant]

Plank sack is quite beneficial for sep and you'll probably have enough points on your road to 70 con for sote to buy it. And sep is done relatively early on. Log basket has a use in a new plank making method that nets around 8k planks/hr together with plank sack and ring of the elements.

As for their exact location it's pretty likely to change as balance changes truly get rolled out, but I don't remember the chart off the top of my head to know exactly where they're at rn so maybe my answers didn't help you, haha

[open spade]

is mage book really that worth to spend that long getting it?

[hybrid blaze]

unclear

[quiet schooner]

The progression pic right now is cooked extra well done

The log basket rote method for logs is a bit more annoying to do imo Poh butler is kind of brain off

I thinkthats the only use for the log basket

[vague tusk]

log basket makes a couple methods more relaxing besides just making planks - double time between banking at redwoods, teak logs are a comfier method of tick manip compared to herb tar

[midnight dome]

I think you use log basket for 1.5t redwoods with firemaking

[flint pebble]

What does this mean - teak logs are a comfier method of tick manip compared to herb tar

[upbeat pendant]

I think they mean you could drag 28 extra logs with you

or whatever

[vague tusk]

so if you mess up a herb tick manip you have to withdraw grimies from your herb sack, put all but one of them back in, and clean that one, and after that you're down swamp tar and a low-level herb which aren't things you acquire passively. you also need to carry around a pestle and mortar

[upbeat pendant]

but you can do it with an herb sack too so idk

[vague tusk]

also if you mess up the order you're likely to clean multiple herbs which is even worse

log basket punishes you less for messing up because you get a lot more teak logs for free over the course of regular gameplay, and there's no grimy->clean step. it doesn't really add up too much but it's nice to have

also it doesn't lose you an inventory slot while doing hunter rumours if you don't have pit traps blocked. this even more doesn't matter because you should have kyatt+sunlight or red chins and/or moonlights blocked anyway but maybe you're building your initial blocklist or something

[quiet schooner]

just dont mess up lol

[open spade]

Is the moon perils not worth it on the gear progression?

[hard willow]

It isn't.

[terse matrix]

Of u follow this chart, what would be the setup for collo ?

[livid socket]

Fang bowfa

Whip for boss

[wraith thistle]

Also use log basket if you have it

[dusky fog]

👀 <-- me in this chat after latest project rebalance update

[quasi raven]

[terse matrix]

same haha, looking forward to any changes

[severe pasture]

This should be the final version unless the super arclight stuff requires a detour but i expect that’ll just be something on task passively

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1051980886649872384/1245399287106502706/image.png?ex=665944b8&is=6657f338&hm=ecaff0657ec6e27855075351c58e6512aeac1243c0acc88d6f1d7d9c9545331a&

[quiet schooner]

Are eternals really optional now

3% with shadow

[hybrid blaze]

for the record: I think this chart has mistakes

[severe pasture]

They’ve always been optional

[quiet schooner]

4% in toa

[hybrid blaze]

im happy that people are updating stuff but personally I think there's room to do better

[quiet schooner]

I guess they're optional for non shadow owners

[severe pasture]

I don’t know many if any shadowers who plan on using eternals in most set ups

[quiet schooner]

I'd guess mostly in pet hunting setups

Kq sire zulrah whisperer

Probably missing a few

I think Reynolds labbed out eternals already worth bringing to toa before update

[severe pasture]

Yeah so for ppl who think that content interests them they can go for eternals

[quiet schooner]

Even more so now

I guess yeah that all falls under optional

[severe pasture]

Please list out

Piety point has been labbed, you can chiv to DT2

[hybrid blaze]

yeah thats the biggest mistake

I have full confidence that the labbing is wrong

no piety also means no 85cb for that grind

and for some reason people forget that post-70 prayer xp is valuable

once you factor those in it's a no-brainer to get piety early

[severe pasture]

You’re only getting like

0.3-0.4? Doing green dragons that early

[hybrid blaze]

I also dont like mm2 before sep

[hybrid blaze]

sorry but we've had a bunch of similar discussions in the past, I understand that there's a group of people trying to seriously lab, but to me the assumptions tend to be wrong and therefore so are the conclusions.
I checked the numbers myself and found that piety early saved a lot of time. I have not checked your math, but we're in disagreement. So I think you've made a mistake

[severe pasture]

Sep you can start as early as the lv60 chin step, this is just saying you want to finish it before the CG step ideally

[hybrid blaze]

Historically it's very often been a disagreement about what goes into the background assumptions. Multiplying a few excel sheet cells is fool-proof, but knowing which factors to consider is not, and also where I've lost a lot of time over the years to the likes of hyger's sheet

I think piety late is bad, and you are recommending it.

[severe pasture]

Labbing = people playing early game not sheets

[hybrid blaze]

I'll leave you to it though and I might make a version of my own at some point to link in BRUHsailer

[severe pasture]

If you can easily clear SoTF with chivalry you should

And per bruhsailer players can go into sotf with brews and scbs

[hybrid blaze]

See, this is what I mean

piety isnt about sotf

why would you think that?

[severe pasture]

Because it’s a time loss for every other scenario, it’s like several additional hours of green dragons for a temporary +1 max hit and 1.2m gp

[hybrid blaze]

no, because the prayer xp is still valuable post 70

the prayer skill does not end at 70 exactly

the opportunity cost of more green dragons early versus prayer from slayer later is surprisingly low

especially since you're going to be doing chaeldar slayer

which is way worse

[severe pasture]

This is the point we should resolve then, what is it exactly?

[hybrid blaze]

or is this a wildy turael angle

[hybrid blaze]

when you are at 60/70/60 melees its good to get 85cb before slayer, and getting to 60/70/70 along with 70 prayer is an amazing way to do it

if im not mistaken this is a 9-10 hour grind (~8-9 killing 1400 green dragons, 1 hour using bones)

[severe pasture]

That sounds about right, so you’d save about 65% of that time stopping at 60 prayer

[hybrid blaze]

other combat training methods for 60-70 def are similar, but slayer options are way worse because of the cb restriction

no you also need 65 def

to do king's ransom

[severe pasture]

Shouldn’t be an issue given you have 60 def earlier from def step

[hybrid blaze]

the bones for 43-->60 prayer dont get you 60-->65 def

[last echo]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/>60_prayer_dont_get_you_60

[severe pasture]

What’s this bot

[hybrid blaze]

wiki bot, it thinks double dashes are a call

ignore it

anyway in 9-10 hours you can get to 85cb, get 460k prayer xp, and get 1.9m in green dhides (though offset by thralls cost)

the combat is the most important part

but the prayer is also very useful

[severe pasture]

43->60 prayer gets you 60->64 def looks like

[hybrid blaze]

but not 85cb

[severe pasture]

You said 60/70/70 and 70 prayer with expected hp is 85 combat?

[hybrid blaze]

in your chart you dont hit 100cb by the time you want elite void btw

is that more slayer?

[hybrid blaze]

yes

uh wait no its 75 str from barb iirc

[terse matrix]

Is it still wurth getting mages book when im already grinding toa for shadow ? Probably just get a elidnis ward right ? or are there better options then ward now ?

[severe pasture]

No

[hybrid blaze]

yeah id just hold out for elidinis

[severe pasture]

Mages book is for new/early game accounts only if ur grinding toa you’ll get a ward relatively fast

[terse matrix]

Malediction also looks strong to me ? 1 less accuracy but 7 more bonus. but accuracy is probably way more important ?

[severe pasture]

Looks like chivalry plan stop gets you to 83 combat

[hybrid blaze]

accuracy doesnt matter much, malediction is just slower to get

[hybrid blaze]

could you show your math on that one?

[severe pasture]

And if accuracy does matter you’d be using shadow if maging

[hybrid blaze]

keep in mind your str is from barb so thats zero hp xp

[severe pasture]

60/75/60 60 prayer 67 HP

not sure if 66 or 67 HP

can just subtract HP xp from frewer green dragons from your calc

[hybrid blaze]

I only have you at 59 hp at those stats

did you assume the str training gave hp xp?

60/75/65 60 pray

59 hp

[severe pasture]

No but maybe underestimated how much str came from barb

Oh what step is this in bruhsailer the chivalry one? We can look at my doc

[hybrid blaze]

60 atk is 270k xp is 90 hp
65 def is 450k xp is 150k hp
add them up to get 240k

thats level 59

[severe pasture]

I had a screenshot of my stats post chivalry

[hybrid blaze]

theres some quest xp so the real number is lower

BRUHsailer has HP as a lowest melee-related combat stat like forever

Im checking the detailed xp sheet

starting the chivalry grind BRUHsailer has 60/75/60 with 54hp

Ch2St69

[hybrid blaze]

yeah thats after 70 prayer

[severe pasture]

Yeah 1-2 steps after?

Because i used my bones not all at once

I recall

[hybrid blaze]

the sheet had a mistake here, I did not put in the HP xp from the grind. I remember checking this manually but forgot tot put it in

I now have this grind ending at 61hp, im not sure where the difference comes from

oh wait you have 67atk

thatll help a bunch

if you can get to 85cb with just chivalry thats interesting but I think it's not close

[severe pasture]

Given at this point I was doing the guide 1:1 not sure why my atk xp is higher than the predicted

[hybrid blaze]

I dont know

[severe pasture]

The 85cmb milestone is a big one and if it’s not at all close i can see why Piety is worth it, but just need to confirm that this is the case. Based on the above screen shot and scaling down to chivalry, 67/73/65 would be 63 HP and 60 prayer which is exactly 85 combat

Coincidentally

[hybrid blaze]

yes but we're aiming for 60/75/64 with 59-60hp

[severe pasture]

Yeah not entirely sure where that extra melee xp came from

[hybrid blaze]

I can find the significant sources of combat xp in BRUHsailer if we want to add them up

[severe pasture]

Surely I didn’t go that dry for defenders?

I don’t rember that at least

[hybrid blaze]

I dont know? it seems unlikely

this was actually a problem in BRUHsailer that we wanted to enter the warrior's guild at 55/75

and didnt hit the 55atk

so there was some pre-warriors-guild routing to get enough melee xp

also I dont like locking this progression behind (approx) 99 fish at barb btw

but thats an aside

[severe pasture]

This is a fair point

[hybrid blaze]

btw minor point but with the mlm changes we rate to have gp problems for 70 smithing, probably just a 'do more bstaves' angle but cutting green dragons will compound this issue

and also an addy ore problem for sep

[severe pasture]

I’ve been thinking about this

Wildy agi course is probably the best lol

[hybrid blaze]

nah

[severe pasture]

3M/h 60k/h but like

I don’t wanna recommend that lol

[hybrid blaze]

thats a 'streamer who has six friends who happen to be on in that world and arent paid at all' angle

its only 3m/hr after the first hour or so

[severe pasture]

Yeah exactly

[hybrid blaze]

and any leaving or logging resets it

also its not even 3m/hr

over half is in blighted supplies, which dont convert to cash

definitely not pre sote at least

[severe pasture]

1m/h 60k/h pre 82 is still very good

But only if u don’t die

[hybrid blaze]

yeah but thats not the rate

you dont even need to die

just getting attacked is gg

[severe pasture]

Yeah

[hybrid blaze]

since you cant log or leave

im partial to blast mine as a solution

gives addy ores and profits on the side

but 'just get more bstaves' might be better, idk how to get addy then though

[severe pasture]

That sounds a lot better than MLM

You only need what

200 adamant ore?

[hybrid blaze]

350 ish

[severe pasture]

How long does that take via blast mine

[hybrid blaze]

oh also one cute gp route is to do sep to 82, use that to fund stuff, then use the stuff to do blast mine or w/e, then go back

since you only need nails on f4

[severe pasture]

That’s what i did on my run

Highly recommend it

Sep to 82 then do stuff come back then Sep to 91 get ranged level finish quests then come back

[hybrid blaze]

I dont know since it was buffed recently but I think the buff is a flat +30% across the board, since its faster mechanics and better routing without changing the loot rolls

previously 75 mining was something like 20 rune 60 addy/hr? I'm not sure

and 65k xp

so do that all times 1.3

so thisd be a 'do blast mine for 4.5 hours, alch 100 rune ores' angle

[severe pasture]

Blast mine for 5 hours at 84k/h (scaled) sounds fine

[hybrid blaze]

it also gives a bit of gold ore so that cuts smithing costs

[severe pasture]

That’s only 120k gp in rune ores think just do more bstaves and sit on them

[hybrid blaze]

oh actually ew I hate alching rune

yeah nty

this does require 1k+ dynamite though

cox, daily, shop or cry about it

or make them manually

btw I was also thinking that low level solo vm for prosp hat beats mlm

[severe pasture]

Btw worst case using mith and oak planks isn’t that bad. Make the mith at BF and just 3t endless oaks at Seers and butler plank make for 300 sets

If getting addy is just painful

[severe pasture]

Numulite from sulluiceps from banking crafting boosts?

[hybrid blaze]

yeah

but also its like 9 games and VM is technically numulite profit

so you just need a bit to get started

[severe pasture]

yea thats fine, only issue is dynamite for blast mine sounds like. 20/day free lmao

like 80 expected from 99fm lol

[hybrid blaze]

yes I think the shop is better

500 gp each

or a bit more

but its not convenient

[severe pasture]

ok given gp issues and we don't want to lock prog to 99 fishing via barblore, I can move piety to where chiv - I can see how that's more practically helpful for more players

not entirely sure how to indicate "do sep until 81 agility" after the 60 range step

such nuance is hard to include in a simple image like this

[hybrid blaze]

yeah for sure

the corresponding section of BRUHsailer needs a rework anyway

[slate dome]

Reading this convo has gave me great content during my break. Ty both of you

True geniuses

[full panther]

blows me away a bit how much labor goes into the earlier parts of the progs lol

all i did was try to update the parasailer one, so i never actually did crunch much numbers or take a deepdive

[severe pasture]

its the part of the game easiest to waste time because its the most complex

[full panther]

makes sense to me

[severe pasture]

most things to do and most permutations of requirements

current iteration

[hybrid blaze]

nice that looks good, should that be 82 agility or is it "82 minus quest xp"?

[severe pasture]

the latter so 81 is easier to write

[hybrid blaze]

its kinda crazy to me that bloodbark hat is good now. It is, im just surprised

[severe pasture]

well making it is essentially net zero time so might as well in case there is a specific use case

unless u go dry on mats and spoon the bloodbark scroll in which case prio top and bottom

[full panther]

with eternals and pegs labeled as optional, i question if prims should also be optional 😮

the +1 str bonus doesnt do much, right?

meh, endgoal dependent still

[hybrid blaze]

personally id sooner move pegs to non-optional than the other way around but this is subjective yeah

[full panther]

i am contemplating if i decide to pick up the live gearprog, to maybe update all items with an "importance" property, where they can be scored low, medium, and high

could be visualized with some background colors

[hybrid blaze]

I dont think its worth it tbh

or even adds clarity

[full panther]

it would be prone to visual clutter

[hybrid blaze]

more than that I think that the importance property would also need to be understood in context

does it mean "important to get at all", or "important to get right here", or something else?

[full panther]

i seek to eliminate any and all need for text oof

yea i understand

[terse vessel]

progression says just get ice barrage after void etc, is this got through burst tasks or what?

[hybrid blaze]

sepulchre alching

you shouldnt ever burst on task tbh, 82 for smoke barrage is not that high a req

[terse vessel]

magic pot every minute at 82 im guessing?

[midnight dome]

divine magic pot

[terse vessel]

ah yes ofc

[fallen raptor]

Barrage is so lovely yeah

Don't know why I ever bursted

[severe pasture]

divine magic pot at 90 magic 👍

[livid mason]

Any discord chads know how to jump to the first message of this post instead of scrolling all the way up?

[candid haven]

idk how to on mobile, so i went to the pins, went to that msg, and did a quick finger workout: #1229571283428053002 message

[storm sapphire]

If you go to the discord search bar and just type in the first few words of the post, you can jump to the first message. I’m not sure if there’s an easier way but it’s an option

[open spade]

why is sepulchor so important for iron?

[upbeat pendant]

money, supplies, agility ehp, plenty of time to multiskill

[open spade]

what supplies do u get?

[upbeat pendant]

biggest one is ranarr seeds/weeds/prayer pots.

Beyond that though you get a fuck off amount of alchs.

[open spade]

when should we be starting that?

[upbeat pendant]

Pretty early on.

The supplies and money from sep will benefit other grinds, other grinds won't benefit sep.

If you barb fish to 99 you have the stats to do it efficiently as soon as you unlock it, pretty much

[open spade]

my stats right now

[severe pasture]

Start sep as soon as you can unlock it and have 72 agility

[open spade]

thrown off by all the stuff i need to have to do it lol

[dusky fog]

@open spade and good starting stack of runes for slayer and more laws than you'll ever need.

[open spade]

doing sins of the father right now

is it suggested to go to 99? if i want?

@dusky fog

[upbeat pendant]

Typical recommendation is stop at 98 and then ardy from 98->99 for marks at ardy. force spawning them

but I think going to 99 won't actually hurt if you don't mind post 99 xp for marks for stams

[open spade]

easiest way to get vampire dust?

@upbeat pendant

[upbeat pendant]

Don't

[open spade]

what. wju

why

[upbeat pendant]

Slow to gather, not that great.

f3 enchant is great to loot at first, some of the construction checks are good, some you build just for xp

Grapples are acceptable. (some of them, idr which ones)

[open spade]

wont i lose gp if i dont gather it?

[upbeat pendant]

No, all calcs and assumptions are made assuming you're not looting the prayer chests iirc.

[open spade]

that made my day

because i have plank sack + rune pouch

do i need anti poisons?

or the book method + holy symbol works?

@upbeat pendant

sorry for the ping, lmk if it's annoying

[upbeat pendant]

Oh you're fine. I only ever brought the book and symbol

[open spade]

@upbeat pendant do we loot everything in sep or just main?

[upbeat pendant]

There are a few that are worth looting but I can't remember off hand. If you check in #1052266500041478246 there's a guide called bruhsailer, somewhere in chapter 2, I believe, is a sep guide. That should be able to explain a bit better than I can

[wraith thistle]

Elite CAs without whip trident or d boots? SusGe

[mortal harness]

there are plenty of pepefree tasks

good example is literally all of gwd tasks which give you free 5-6 points a pop

I padded to elite personally using GWD GM tasks

[dusky fog]

Hoppy gave you most of the essentials here. Also recommend you check out the sep section on the bruhsailer guide. Ping me in the Ironman discussion channel if you want to discuss further as we are outside the scope of this post

[midnight dome]

easily doable, I got elites at 76 slayer. Bofa is all you need really

that is, if you know your way around pvm. But if you've done cg you are probably skilled enough to learn all the methods

[wraith thistle]

Easily is subjective but I still think there's some things on that prog sheet that make no sense but to each his scone

[severe pasture]

you can list out what you dont get and ppl should be able to easily explain it

[livid socket]

#uim-discussion message

[severe pasture]

ah

got it

[inland mica]

Early infinity boots new?

[upbeat pendant]

They used to be got as part of your initial magic training at mta but they're optional now

[inland mica]

Also bruhsailor alchs my poor granite chest
Fine to alch after zerker ring?

[upbeat pendant]

Yeah.

You don't need it after that

It's for diary and the ring. Idt it's ever used for a clue

[inland mica]

Gotcha, we had good but short memories

[dusky fog]

@ornate sierra

[ornate sierra]

Can someone please let me know what the following items are in the post project rebalance gear progression, not familiar with the images

Step 6 item 7 + 8
Step 8 item 3
Step 9 item 4
Step 12 item 2

[forest knot]

step 6: coal bag + gem bag
step 8: unlock slayer superiors
step 9: teleport anchoring scroll
step 12: ring of shadows

[ornate sierra]

Thank you

[novel sable]

Can someone write a complete breakdown of the items the are in the post project gear progression image?

[dusky fog]

You a real one for typing that out for folks

[novel sable]

Thank you!!!

[severe pasture]

Np if ppl have questions just @ me here

[novel sable]

Why mud battlestaff? @severe pasture

[mortal harness]

Herb runs
Optional, doesn't rly matter

We all did fine with water and earth runes for years

[severe pasture]

saving slots depeing on how u do herb/berry runs can be impactful, but up to you

[severe pasture]

disagree w/ this point tho, why bring a rune pouch then?

[mortal harness]

Meant more like "it's good to have but is going out of your way early for a mud staff necessarily good? later on dks are faster" etc.

I do my herb runs with 4-rune pouch + mud staff now and save 4 slots vs previous status quo

[severe pasture]

doing dks at all later kinda troll anyways

unless ur pet hunting

[mortal harness]

Well ur prob gonna wanna do it to get ur magus ring 😉

[severe pasture]

u get seers ring

[mortal harness]

Yea doesn't mud staff also come from prime

[severe pasture]

very early now

yes

u do both

[mortal harness]

ah I forgot they added that bs 0.5%

crungo

yes if you're already grinding seers then just stay for mud, I agree

with whatever wacky alt setup it is to do only prime

[severe pasture]

0.5% gives a max in standard slayer set up at that time

which lasts until u get occult so thats a lot of slayer xp

[mortal harness]

even if it doesn't at a given level it will at other intervals on the way to occult I take it

prob pays for itself fairly fast, 1/127 doesn't take long to pay off

[severe pasture]

if it didnt it wouldnt be worth

[mortal harness]

yea

[severe pasture]

hence it (they) being so early

[hard willow]

im wearing water tome and dust staff since i don't have a mud staff

[severe pasture]

ye if u did temp and got tome that works

[hard willow]

yeah love me a barrel

[quiet schooner]

I hate that seers has magic damage now

.5% gives a max hit

[open spade]

what's the point of the mixed hide? boots+ cape?

[hybrid blaze]

boots are good for ranged, cape for melee

[vague tusk]

boots are also a very slight defense bonus on climbing boots - might as well swap to 'em

[severe pasture]

if u want but at that point ur just praying against everything so its w/e

[snow harbor]

is anchor scroll really worth going for?

[severe pasture]

It’s good enough GP where it’s not bad at all to go get it if you want but it’s definitely not required

Can be a decent detour pre 100 cmb to get some extra melee xp and some extra cash

[snow harbor]

interesting i was assuming that was the reason for the early cash

maybe not as worth if account is more progressed?

[severe pasture]

If you want it get it when u feel like it

That’s about it

It’s not important enough to say it’s bad to not get

[hybrid blaze]

Id skip it tbh

[icy granite]

save as html based off

[severe pasture]

sure ty

[open spade]

why do we need x2 pharos scepters

[faint crane]

altar + master clue step

[frozen olive]

not just for the master step, the tps are best for a lot of clues

[crystal narwhal]

And to toa

[midnight dome]

necroposting but can I ask why ultor post fero gloves?

Feel like it would save quite a bit of time before 95 slayer?

[severe pasture]

Feros saves more time to ultor than ultor saves for a few slayer levels + melee hydra (if you even decide to do melee hydra)

You could technically get ultor much earlier but we don’t rly recommend doing vardorvis without 90+ melees

But if you NMZ’d your melees or whatever it’s fine to do vard after whip

[midnight dome]

oh really, I would have assumed the opposite. With my setup I get 2 fang maxhit. Is it because I have much higher melees than assumed

ah right, I have 98/99/90 from doing raids with friends and stuff

[frozen olive]

definitely didn't have that when I was at hydra with hasta

[midnight dome]

I have that at 92 slayer

[frozen olive]

early 90s maybe

[severe pasture]

Yeah placing ultor after hydra means your combats will be very high bc hydra is slow over time bc of tasks

But if you have high melees due to detours just send vard straight away

And it’s fine

[midnight dome]

makes sense. I have 16 tob 30 cox 80 toa, so I don't think that's too many detours actually

Dunno how I got so much melee xp lol

[severe pasture]

Slayer tasks have variance

Could high roll melee tasks vs barrage tasks

But yea vard is just not a reclined boss so imo better to recommend after all slayer drops to have as high melees as possible

[midnight dome]

Actually I just noticed I might run into another issue, I don't have enough whip charges to hit droprate lol

[quiet schooner]

Base whip baby

[midnight dome]

ew

[upbeat pendant]

oh god

[quiet schooner]

Should have spooned second enh

Never have to worry about whips

[midnight dome]

true that's my bad

[quiet schooner]

[severe pasture]

And yes recommending vard after slayer means max whips banked for tent users

[midnight dome]

thinking about it my melees probably come from going dry at vetion, basilisks and doing melee shamans

[hard willow]

I hate saeldor vard. I never fucking hit

[crystal narwhal]

Or you hit 50 50 50 50 and think the GM speed is coming, for it to turn around and go 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

[terse matrix]

Whats the latest updated progression chart now ?

[severe pasture]

Pinned in #ironman-discussion

[terse matrix]

Ait thanks. I wonder why webweaver ?

[slate dome]

Usable for levi, some people will choose to do wildy slayer and include revs, rather than just do the wildy bosses off task

Think that's why it's optional

[mortal harness]

Relatable lol. I got master time once with tent, like 1:04 somehow
Just popped off non-stop
And then another time I popped off even harder and thought 0:55 was coming
Sadly 0 city at the end, when his defense is LOW
And ofc 1:12 time. Sad scam game

Claws are really nice for the finishing potential tho NGL. Voidwaker prob similar or better on average but claws have the potential if you want to reset for time

[quiet schooner]

surely i will get sra and then send vard and gm time will be 0 time to vestige

[crystal narwhal]

Yeah I've started vw grind now for my unevitable grind at vard for last axe piece

[north cloud]

Is this the most up to date?

[severe pasture]

yes check pins in #ironman-discussion

only update will be adding Guthix Sleeps quest items in a month

[thick plinth]

What’s the strat for those early CON levels? PvP planks with the butler, and then mahogany homes?

[severe pasture]

oak larders or teak homes generally

[hybrid blaze]

daddy's home + use up the supplies + tower of life for the early levels, todt to 30+, then oaks to 50

[thick plinth]

Ahh I guess I didn’t make it super clear my current stats. I’m sitting at 63 right now. So just trying to figure out how to get to 75

[hybrid blaze]

teak homes to 70, then sepulchre or myth hangers is solid

or myth hangers all the way

[quasi raven]

"hangers" being the Mounted Myth Cape?

[hybrid blaze]

Yep

[quasi raven]

Awesome, thanks!

[severe pasture]

Good question, we will need to see after it gets added into the game how it makes duke

I expect you’d still want max melees ultor feros

But it’s definitely not gonna be bad if ppl wanna go a little earlier

It’s not worth pre occult because magus over seers (i) on its own doesn’t give you a max for ice barrage on task

But maybe you can go duke before Vard/Hydra with firelight at least

[undone storm]

Isn’t magus bad if you have no shadow

Ive never seen anyone buy that item (main) or bring it in a setup picture (both main and iron) without it

[mortal harness]

Hilarious rounding lol

[full willow]

It could let u use mystic might instead of augury or just no offensive pray for the same max hit so i wouldnt say its useless for barrage

[severe pasture]

why wouldnt u use magus as part of barraging or with sang? im sure there are some potential tob and toa inventories where magus swap has value, which doesnt even matter if that's true or not because its good for slayer

[severe pasture]

drink ur ppots

[full willow]

yeah no im not praying augury 😂 drain is insane

but my point was u might not lose a max downgrading offensive prayer so why not

[severe pasture]

pray is free if u play the game mode

2% magic dmg will very frequently give u a max on task

[full willow]

to an extent but not worth 1 max hit for that amount of drain but you do you

[simple saffron]

max hits for barrage slayer matter more cus of the targets. people noticed xp/h increase going from prossy to monks so i imagine you’d notice 1 barrage max hit easily

but i think i agree if its the same max hit to use a lower prayer u might as well

[undone storm]

idk iron meta but i know for sure that mains never take magus in tob and never take magus in toa if no shadow

i dont know of any reason why iron setups would be different tho

[livid socket]

Thats because of inv space

[undone storm]

slayer i mean i guess, would ahve to dps calc whether it gives max

[livid socket]

Not because magus is a bad item

[undone storm]

also if you use trident/sang + other style i dont think ppl use magus that often

since zerker/ultor camp is usually better if you have melee involved

and for a lot of mage-only bosses you can get away with suffering just fine

[mortal harness]

Wearing ancestral top instead of vestment top will have a similar impact on your prayer drain rate and also only give you one max + accuracy yet people do it

I think it's totally worth using Mystic Might/Augury at all times whenever you're maging now

Same story as Piety/Rigour

This is all under the situation of 1 max, for the reasons that danny said

If you don't get a max then sure I can see the argument

[inland mica]

So you saying more damage better than less damage?

[hybrid blaze]

it do be

[quiet schooner]

A 1 max with a 500 accuracy 60 max hit shadow feels way less impactful though

Mystic lore enjoyer

[inland mica]

More damage

[mortal harness]

Ye shadow is a diff story but I still would use Augury personally because I have a zillion ppots and restores

Fk lower DPS

Same reason I took pegs eternals and crystal helm farseer helm swaps to Zulrah and didn't sacrifice 8-kill trips regardless

DPS is DPS

[severe pasture]

scuffcord is supposed to be ironic not meta

[full willow]

Mystic might sure but augurys just whatever. Ppots arent free because you still need to gather and farm and actually make the pots. Personally ill take the dps hit to not be forced into prayer camping. Man I liked slayer before this stuff more

[mortal harness]

well the seed gathering cost is zero because of ToA, it's just farming and making cost
and I'm pretty sure the time spent making them pays off for using Augury over Mystic Might or Augury over nothing

assuming you do PVM + skilling so you have the seeds

if you do just skilling then it's more interesting but I think it's still worth it. zero or papi prob have numbers

[midnight dome]

its a couple ticks per dose. Less if you value the herblore xp

[fair sparrow]

What cb stats do you guys normally reccomend for sins of the father?

[hybrid blaze]

Piety

[timid zephyr]

i was 69 atk / 75 str / 70 def, was defnitely a struggle for me but it was also my first time doing that quest

[terse matrix]

any idea if the synapse is wurth going for ? and so where to put it in the progression

[hybrid blaze]

yeah its worth it, and probably so are the claws

itd probably come soon after bowfa

[severe pasture]

yep itll be the slayer step right after bofa in parallel w/ zenytes, all on task

[frosty dew]

Is bow worth getting for kril if you have bowfa or is it only good if you have lightbearer already?

[hybrid blaze]

no

[frosty dew]

👍

[mortal harness]

For efficient prog you just get the emberlight and bounce
The bow is just niche for Kril and for doing more TDs

Well rather emberlight + bone claws lol

So I guess if you happen to get a second synapse along the way then yea make bow

[severe pasture]

no, imo youd get bow first, which helps at both DGs and TDs more than emberlight does, and on rate you should get emberlight around when you finish claws; then you do krill using your greater demon task instead of tormented demons w/ bow

[slate dome]

Can the bows spec sustain locking up kril without lb?

Or do you still need to run it

[hybrid blaze]

probably you can sustain, but im not sure. With 25% spec, 90s respawn timer and ~40s kill times you have almost 2 specs per kill

[waxen harness]

Bow or staff?

After emberlight , I mean

[hybrid blaze]

probably bow first, emberlight second

but it depends

[waxen harness]

On what?

[hybrid blaze]

whether or not you have tbow, and are planning to stay for the claws, and unfortunately also your drop rng

[mortal harness]

AFAIK staff is not useful, my personal plan is just 2 synapses + 2 bone claws and leave

[mortal harness]

Seems reasonable

[full willow]

Im gonna wait for rate buffs before I judge whether i should go for claws

[mortal harness]

idk it's insanely fast

I kept up 45 kph on-task based on my last 3 samples

already up to like 210 kc

really fast grind, I can't see them making it much faster

for reference like 1 zenyte is maybe 6-7 hours
so 25-30 ish hours for the 4 zenytes
this entire thing e2e is, what, like 30-35 hours?
it's not too bad, very comparable

[waxen harness]

My kril grind is done so (I think) I don't need the bow. I want to try to use it for Nechryael tasks, getting the last hit with the staff spec. Might end up being too hard to consistently do.

[mortal harness]

I'd just get emberlight and bounce if you think you will legitimately never use the bow

Staff -- as of the current impl -- is not worth using that way honestly

[waxen harness]

Still need claws unfortunately

[mortal harness]

Better off just using dps specs like dds

Yea while you still don't have claws def keep potting kc

But I think for that reason what Drogon said is true -- on avg you will get 2 synapses before 2 claws

So scorcho first still makes sense

If you do go dry then that sucks but it's kinda unlikely since synapses are more common

[quiet schooner]

Bow is good if u ever feel like u will want to hunt for hilt/staff from kril

[hexed zinc]

Does the staff cast anything besides Arceeus? Do you get a demonbane bonus manual casting barrage?

[hybrid blaze]

no

[hexed zinc]

k, ty

[terse matrix]

What if you are 99 slayer an have no ancienst shards left lol

[hybrid blaze]

very tough, go get some

check if you have ancient totems

[terse matrix]

Wasted all my shards at cerb last 2 months rofl, dry on smouldering and eternals xd

Still hunting imbued heart zo hopefully i can stack some up

[crystal narwhal]

If you care about clues and have afk time venny bow jellies is a decent use of afk time

[hybrid blaze]

since you are still hunting imbued heart you will likely get more than enough from barraging abby demons and nechryaels

[crystal narwhal]

yeah if you need heart that's probably better

[fallen raptor]

Do we wait grinding cerb until after the arclight upgrade?

Or unblock hellhounds at 91 still

[hybrid blaze]

yeah, getting the upgrade early is good

[fallen raptor]

I got a black demon task instead of a greaters unfortunately, so no TDS for me yet

[hybrid blaze]

since arclight charges count towards the upgrade you can just go for your zenytes and TDs at the same time

[fallen raptor]

Yeah I know, hoped to get an upgrade before tho, made my torture the other day so it would be a big dps increase

[terse matrix]

If u would have already finished cerb/demonic is emberlight still a item to get ?

would it be used somewhere else besides duke ?

[hybrid blaze]

melee nechs, sire

[terse matrix]

no need to do nechs ;p

[mortal harness]

if ur not 99 slayer and 99 herblore and 99 prayer it's a good task

[terse matrix]

i am hehe

[mortal harness]

then yeah just duke although to be fair it's competitive with scythe there for a fraction of the grind time

[terse matrix]

i barrage nechs for shards and heart

[mortal harness]

ye

shards useless though now

so just heart and that's fair

[terse matrix]

yea also no scythe, arclight would be bis at duke atm i think

for me

[mortal harness]

correct, emberlight is comparable to scythe I meant

and doesn't take nearly as long to grind

so worth picking up for that IMO

good chance u get emberlight + scorcho 0-time while grinding 2 halves for full bone claw anyway

[terse matrix]

do i need bone claws ? got dclaws and vw ;p

[mortal harness]

as it currently stands there are places where it's slightly better iirc
but most places slightly worse?

it's more niche for you but if you want to skip I don't think it'll hurt you that badly

[terse matrix]

i think i wanna go for emberligt, bot not claws

I'm stuck at fang 😂

[candid haven]

Hi @full panther, I'm discussing the gear progression infographic with a friend, and they claim that your progression assumes you are to use boosting services for torso. I think that's not true since I've never seen you mention it, is that right?

[rugged token]

no, w306 is fine

just bring a bow to use the arrows, they're op

[full panther]

My progs early parts are derived from parasailers prog, and more so BruhSailer, which afaik doesnt use boosts

[candid haven]

I see, ty for the clarification guys!

[mortal harness]

w306 gang 🫡

msb and chill

[fallen raptor]

Really enjoyed doing it at 306

[full panther]

the interactive gear progression tool has been updated! It now additionally includes relevant items from WGS, and from araxxor too. The new items's position in the sequence is sourced from Drøgøn's new gearpog:
#ironman-discussion message

this update unfortunately messes with any existing configuration from before today

this means some of your selections have moved around

[dusky fog]

Any chance this thread can be renamed to something that’s easier to find?

[full panther]

Interactive Gear Progression by Ladlor

Ye can do

[sinful panther]

How do you view this on mobile? No way am I scrolling up 1500 posts to find the original post

Maybe I just haven’t figured out how the mobile UI works yet haha.

[slate dome]

check the pinned messages

[terse matrix]

why bow + emberlight from TD ? where are u using bow

[lunar lodge]

Kril I believe

[livid socket]

tds themselves

[quasi juniper]

also demonic gorrilas are best killed with bow + sword

[compact shuttle]

this is awesome! thanks for making this

[stable niche]

what is the link for the interactive version?

this is a very useful resource for people with my kind of brain. I love checklists

[full panther]

found in pinned post: #1229571283428053002 message

https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Madssb/InteractiveGearProg/main/gearprog_speculative.html

[stable niche]

thank you:)

[blazing fern]

never mind ! am an idiot

xd

[full panther]

heheh, did you figure out that you can hover over it to see?

[blazing fern]

yes! thank you

and thank you all for all your effort on these guides - truly insane resources i look to all the time

[radiant pelican]

What is seers ring used for in this progression?

[frozen olive]

w/ mages book it gives maxes when you barrage

[radiant pelican]

whats the point of doing burning claws AND VW before TOA? Wouldnt u just use one or the other?

[quiet schooner]

its likely u get claws on rate for 2 synapse

but if u dont i wouldnt sweat it and stay for it tbh

vw is better at toa

[severe pasture]

unless the known math is changed bclaws are bis for slayer

they arent there for toa specifically or something

[frail ibex]

On general mobs or only specific ones? I thought the BClaws were specifically a boss weapon spec only

[radiant pelican]

Where are mage book uses? Is it only for barraging slayer?

And also what are wrath runes for? I've eclipsed them in progression but I've never used them

[crystal narwhal]

barraging, and your bis for a long time for general mage use with trident etc. Wrath runes are for prayer slayer, spells on arceus book

You can get 1:1 pray and slay xp which is super strong

[severe pasture]

Just general bis slayer spec weapon for melee tasks

[magic blade]

broken? :C

[full panther]

How so? when i check on my end, it seems fine

[magic blade]

Not sure why but getting this

[full panther]

sec

i see. has it worked in the past, or is this your first time using it? any clue what you maybe did to break it?

[woven nova]

works for me

[magic blade]

I think I opened it once a while back, tried on explorer and it worked. Lemme try clearing cookies n such

[full panther]

yes definitely try this, and do share if it alleviates the issue. i suspect it will

[magic blade]

Hmm didn't but it's definitely something in chrome. I'll poke around

Was a chrome extension all good, thanks for the site!

[full panther]

glad to see it resolved

[hidden abyss]

@full panther if i can suggest some improvements. This is how I'd probably handle it. https://jsfiddle.net/0ygLpc3h/#&togetherjs=bxUflK4ilu

For me that one murders me eyes and I like to keep things flowing.

[full panther]

i see, i will have a look later when im off work

[hidden abyss]

basically all it does is when you finish a 'set of items' it then shows the next set of items but it follows it down in a waterfall

[full panther]

i do intend for some darkmode implementation before i distribute this a bit more broadly. my issue with adding further functionality is i want to learn more javascript

oh i see, i assumed the murders your eyes referring to the white backgorund

[hidden abyss]

no no just the whole flow of the page and following it

there is something rewarding about completing something and seeing the next set with visual indication you've finished it

[full panther]

I have been thinking it'd be fun to display some score at the bottom, and weight items based on some abstract notion of importance

[hidden abyss]

haha it would be fun

when you say weight, some arbitary value for actual weight?

[full panther]

when i say weight, i mean as in with each item having their own value contribution to the total score

[hidden abyss]

and this would be a made up score?

such as rune pouch = 1, iban staff = 3

[full panther]

yeah

some mix of significance, time cost, etc

[hidden abyss]

i'll add that and see how it looks

[full panther]

feel free to also fork the repo, and do whatever you want

[hidden abyss]

yeah, i just chucked it on jsfiddle because you can collab

[radiant pelican]

I wonder if the new dragon hunter wand will make an appearance in this guide

[waxen harness]

Extremely dubious: there just isn't a good time to do it. The boss is crush weak and your best crush weapon at that point is probably either dragon mace or the new nagua drop, which would be grinding for a weapon to grind for a weapon... that's miserable. Alternatively you do this with hasta post-bowfa, but you're about to get a fang from TOA so probably just skip it. If this is better DPS than fang it could be worth it for QOL or as a pickup before post-bowfa slayer depending on the rates.

[full panther]

Its quite bad time investment afaik

[waxen harness]

but then again this is jagex in currentyear, it'll be a 1/200 drop to see the purple and an additional 1/[partysize] chance for it to be yours so absolutely not worth

[radiant pelican]

That's fair. Will just wait to see if it beats fang for dragons then. Maybe the drop rate will be buffed too

[waxen harness]

It would have to be CRAZY common to be worth getting

If it's a pit stop grind like ancient icon and beats fang, then we're talking

[hidden abyss]

feels like all of varlamore part 2 is a bad investment in time haha

[severe pasture]

wouldnt surprise me if its just get the herblore rewards and get out

[hidden abyss]

pretty much at this point

[waxen harness]

just like p1!

[hidden abyss]

the rates seem miserable

[waxen harness]

someday jagex will introduce more earlygame pvm worth doing /shrug

[full panther]

The gear progression has been updated!

• Dark mode button: There is now an option for enabling darkmode, if you find the white background and bright green too harsh.
• Added an acknowledgements: added url to Ironscape disc for any gamers who has seen the guide, and want to navigate here, be it for technical support, questions about progression, etc. Also gives some extra credit where arguably long overdue.
• Accessible via less cluttered URL: https://madssb.github.io/InteractiveGearProg/index.html ! this one may look like less of a virus if you want to share it with friends. Keep in mind that changes don't persist from previous url. the old one works too, but may lose support at some point

Hope you like these changes! I'm open to feedback as always. Future additions might include a "bare-bones" alternative that strictly aims for maxing, or outsourcing the acknowledgements section to its own page, if users find it clutters the page too much.

please inform me if something somehow broke

[chilly cove]

might be nice to have a changelog above/below the acknowledgements

[fallen raptor]

Will the marked off items change when the order changes again?

[full panther]

if the sequence gets changed as of now, it will yeah. I'll try to address that problem around the time the sequence requires a change.

[fallen raptor]

Fair enough, just wondered

[woven nova]

@full panther any words ending in 's on the website are shown with an uppercase S

[terse matrix]

I know moons isnt wurth it. But if u have to put it in the chart. What drops from it would u put where ?

[crystal narwhal]

Might be better to do moons now depending on how huey ends up in the meta. It does seem strong for herb seeds and the bloodmoon set is great there. Plus the blue armour being master clue req if that interests you.

Guessing after hasta is a good spot for it. Too early to tell and gonna let the smarter guys in the room deliver the verdict.

[radiant pelican]

A helpful thing for the profession would be some accompanying text (brief) for certain items to describe why what place they fit. Like why are you getting wrath runes. Why are you getting seers ring I. Things like that idk just a thought

[midnight dome]

Surely huey has no place in the meta

[crystal narwhal]

Seems like rates for seeds are very strong, might be a herblore boss. Meele xp + shit ton of high level seeds does seem like it can be meta, but again, numbers will dictate that and I’m not the guy calling this stuff. I’ll wait for what the bruhsailor boys figure out

[waxen harness]

Surely contracts and nechryaels+dags on task are better

[wooden isle]

Is there a reason why you'd go for spell swap this early? Won't you just get to 96 magic at some point passively via slayer etc?

[severe pasture]

you can get barrage before doing any meaningful slayer, you use magic to do faster slayer not use slayer to gain magic xp

and you need sbs for rc for the runes to do slayer

[mortal harness]

It's not like the alching is costing you any time anyway
You're looting Sep for the rune items for money
And you so happen to also get runite bolts along the way that you can alch

The only real time loss is buying nats which is barely anything with scar ess these days

So there's no reason not to get 92 Magic before doing any serious Slayer

[fallen raptor]

The SBS thing is only 92? Not just raw 96 without pots?

[quiet schooner]

No it's 96 but u can just use divine magic pots

[fallen raptor]

Ah yeah I have 92, but didn't mark it off yet

[vale terrace]

what method or primary use case is spellbook swap used for? i've never used it and honestly barely knew it was a spell in the game

[frozen olive]

big one for skilling is zmi, so you can spellbook swap for vile vigour

[vale terrace]

ah ok ty

[tardy jay]

Why are wraths before SBS in the progression? Should you use stamina pots at zmi for that step?

[west nexus]

pretty sure you divine magic pot to SBS

[tardy jay]

Does the SBS step mean getting 96 mage so you don't need pots?

[west nexus]

not sure, i'd assume so

[frozen olive]

those should be combined, you're supposed to get sbs before wraths yes, 92 at the least from alching at sep/other passive mage

[midnight dome]

It's pretty good for pvm in some cases where you want venge and thrall

Like tob melee roles, bofa only zulrah

Sometimes for ancients too like leviathan or abby demons

[frozen olive]

I used it for rax pre hally

[severe pasture]

92 + magic potions

good enough for both zmi and slayer

and youll naturally quickly get to 94/96 from those activities themselves so the number of magic pots needed isnt that high

[hybrid blaze]

I think thats a mistake

[tardy jay]

Another odd thing around the same part. The progression recommends you get fremennik elite (83 slayer req, 78 w/ boost) before getting any slayer gear (bandos and bloodbark mainly). Is this right, or would it be better to get those pre-78 slayer?

[hybrid blaze]

I think the logic is that fremmy elite gives noted dbones for the seers ring grind, and seers is good for barrage

so you'd do it whenever possible

[wooden isle]

I'm at the elite diary parts almost but I only have lvl 78 herblore, what's a good way to quickly get more herbs aside from the daily runs?

[mortal harness]

Contracts, dags on task, nechs on task, ToA, huey supposedly

[balmy fjord]

It’s crazy that it’s saying slayer helm after quest cape… or that it’s saying chin to 70 range at MM2 (which, presumably you would use a crystal bow to beat.. which is 70 range)

Unless I’m using a wrong one? This is the one I have

[severe pasture]

newest version is pinned in #ironman-discussion

[frozen olive]

Slayer helm isn't the important part, black mask is, the only thing good at that point would be dust devils, and you can facemask just as easily. It's a low priority item.
You need a 10 range weapon to do the glough cheese sure, but you can also just click food and do melee, or if you really want to cheese can still use magic longbow

[radiant pelican]

If you skipped herb sack and gem sack early game (currently near TOA/fang) is it worth going back for them?

[hybrid blaze]

It's up to you, probably its not worth it but I like having them

[mortal harness]

Some notes for you:

• slayer helm is cosmetic except at dust devils; black mask has same dmg%
• you do not need to complete MM2; you just need to start the maze
• as a result:
  • get 69 slayer with 55 ranged 61 ranged (for MEP1 => SOTE)
  • start MM2 up until the maze part
  • catch 2.5k chins maybe 2.1k chins at prif
  • throw them all to get 70 ranged
  • go buy a crystal bow, do WP hard diary, upgrade to elite void
  • catch 17.5k more chins at prif
  • throw the rest of them for 92 ranged
  • THEN use the crystal bow and finish off MM2 (or grind bowfa, whatever)
    So even in the fixed image it should still be the same

TL;DR -- 69 slay, 92 range, bowfa, mm2/ds2/gm quests, quest cape, slayer

[sleek prawn]

Lance before rigour? Is that because the guide says to fang hydra? or is bowfa with eagle eye better to send than wait for rigour?

[frozen olive]

Fang hydra is good yeah, but also rigour isn't used that much in slayer and if learning cox having all the upgrades is nice
If you're an experienced player I'd def get it earlier

[sleek prawn]

i can easy solo cox

[quiet schooner]

lance is very good at cox

[quiet schooner]

the progression sheet probably falls apart after bowfa for experienced players tho tbh

[severe pasture]

Only depends on your tolerance for doing very scuffed content e.g. inferno cox toa

Of course you can if you want but the vast majority have no interest in that even if experienced

[quiet schooner]

I guess it is mostly still the same but stuff like infernal avernic quiver probably come way earlier for experienced players

If I remade I'd surely do some eagle eye cape as soon as I got bowfa

[crystal narwhal]

There was someone who did first fire cape straight in to infernal

Following this guide

[quiet schooner]

Wasn't that sri

He's a beast tho

[crystal narwhal]

Idk who, just remember hearing about it

[sleek prawn]

So its not awful to start Lance grind with bowfa without rigour?

[livid socket]

its fine yeah

if you already know how to solo cox you can get rigour first if you want

if not just get lance first

[sleek prawn]

Okay awesome - Can just switch it up then

[full panther]

i very much enjoyed cox, so i did a lot before lance. for my solos, i definitely noticed them being significantly slower though

[balmy fjord]

Okay got it. Does this change at all for a HC? Been trying to do NATT and struggling so I was gonna raise stats and go for the tentacle whip to have a better shot at versik

[mortal harness]

Yeah if you're a HCIM you will probably die grinding bowfa NGL

But might as well try cuz otherwise it's not gonna be a fun time

[frozen olive]

Less than 100 hcs alive with 400+ cg kc

[balmy fjord]

Imma go for bowfa probably after leagues. Purposely picking prif in hopes to get really good at it

[crystal narwhal]

Bofa is also longer for HC since they often chose to do t3

[quasi juniper]

You can also use quest worlds and beta worlds to learn CG. Take advantage of when we get the next one.

Some leagues will not let you turn off relic effects.

[balmy fjord]

Makes sense; I also a a mirror main to my HC that I test stuff on too; so I can do leagues then do some main testing. Also need to learn zulrah

[quasi juniper]

learn how to get hit by ranged attacks on "mage" phase kekw

[wooden isle]

Any reason why to get the mage book that early? I don't see it getting a lot of use till late game if you already have a tome of fire/water

[livid socket]

those tomes suck

runes arent a problem

[hybrid blaze]

Mage book gives maxes to barrage

[wooden isle]

Oh okay, so definitely worth it

[drowsy ore]

So does the slayer level in the chart go from 1-58 at the black mask step, 58-69 at the mm2 chin step, and then stay at 69 slayer through the fbow, wrath, construction, blood bark, bandos steps then goes from 69 slayer to 85 through the tds, voidwaker, fang, cas steps and then 85-90~ from then?

Just trying to theorise the herblore level you’d have at each step to theorise a mixology progression

[hybrid blaze]

Yes

[drowsy ore]

From the spreadsheet it says you’ll have 83 herb and 76 slayer at the lvl 83 con Poh step, that seems like a good place to do mixology for goggles/ amulet + goading potions for slayer

[mortal harness]

83 is a bit conservative; if you do all of the 99s you will prob be 90+

Both Drogon and McClumpy ended in upper 80s/lower 90s I think

[terse matrix]

I assume i dont need scorchin bow and burning claws if i have a tbow vw and dragon claws ? Probably just getting an emberlight then ?

[mortal harness]

Burning claws still have uses even if you have dragon claws
For example, Araxxor

But yeah you can prob get away with just Emberlight if you don't particularly care about Zammy

I'd aim for bclaws + ember, and if you happen to get a 2nd synapse then honestly the staff is good for manual cast slayer as it has 10% damage and 37 magic accuracy which is pretty solid

[drowsy ore]

If log basket is in gear prog

Goggles and amulet should be as well

[mortal harness]

I think it's just not updated yet XD

Content just came out!

[drowsy ore]

Haha nah I’m not saying it should be

That’s just my thoughts/ discussion

😄

[mortal harness]

Yea I think ppl are just waiting for meta to settle cuz it seems like they may or may not adjust numbers still for a couple more weeks. Usually after about a month once everything is settled it's pretty safe to start updating charts/docs

[drowsy ore]

I was just moreso thinking where it would go, because I think it has a place at multiple points

[quiet schooner]

Probably any time after u unlocked highest potion and have available herbs

Although idk how important they are

Goading potions seem good for like barrage nechs but nothing else?

[fallen raptor]

Dust devils? Abyssal demons?

[quiet schooner]

Radius seems too small for abbys

Maybe I'm wrong tho

[hybrid blaze]

isnt it big on all barrage tasks?

[waxen harness]

Probably not big enough for smokes. Probably big enough for araxxytes.

[severe pasture]

very big at smokes

still need cannon tho

[mortal harness]

It's big on the barrage tasks but the thing is that in efficient progression you are pausing at 100cb/73ish slayer to go do all that void/chinning/bowfa/etc.
And you can finish off a bunch of 99s then too like Mining/Agility/RC/etc.
So that gives you plenty of time to get your Herblore level up high to 90ish
And then ofc you can easily sail thru Mixology to get the goading pots for rest of Slayer

Which is like the other 90% of it time-wise

You will always have goading pots for nechs/abbys/smokes as a result

It's just the small amount of time between 65-73 Slayer that you don't which is fine

Better to take that time loss than grind Mixology with lower Herblore

[drowsy ore]

You would also change how you get your xp post 81 herblore. You wouldn’t make junk pots since mixology is better ehp.

You still would need good potions which get much better mileage with goggles and amulet as well

[mortal harness]

Mileage on the good pots is basically just redistributing birdhouses to black chins lol

Lant secondaries are 0-time from Vork regardless and you get so many in excess of your lants

Cad secondaries are the time-save basically

As for junk pots it's basically just that you need to make fewer super attacks and you can dump irits at the minigame

[mortal harness]

Logic here is a bit complex but brews best => saving nests with Mixo rewards => fewer BH runs => more black chins

[midnight dome]

how about more rumours? 😁

I personally did bird houses all the way to 99 because what if I go 3x rate at nex

[mortal harness]

1-9 museum
9-80 BH
80-93 red chins
93-99 BH

that meta gets you 13.3k nests = 10k brews for your 99 and doesn't troll ranged
so that should work out nicely for skillers and pvmers alike

can math it all out in a sheet for you if you want with exact reasons cuz nest loot does scale within each tier as you level up. pre-99 anything is such a mess for this reason

[fallen raptor]

80-93 chins is how many?

[mortal harness]

20k red chins

[hybrid blaze]

That's 70-92, it's a bit lower. Use the calc Isan 😉

That final level doesn't equal the first 10 does it?

[fallen raptor]

Oh yeah I was just wondering, I have 93 ranged almost now already

[mortal harness]

Are you sure?
(7,195,629 - 1,986,068)/265 = ~19,658

Or did you mean Ranged levels and not Hunter levels

[hybrid blaze]

Yes

[mortal harness]

Ah got it, I meant 80 Hunter to 93 Hunter for 55 to 92 Ranged yeah

[hybrid blaze]

Ahh mb

[fallen raptor]

Oh yeah I wondered what 80 hunter to 93 was with chins, sorry for the confusion

[strange pawn]

Just range void for chins right?

[frozen olive]

at the point you get it yes, but since you need void for diary anyway it's a good grab
also has uses in tob

[finite elbow]

what is the crystal hablard used for?

[hybrid blaze]

great str xp while chinning

[finite elbow]

is that the only purpose?

[severe pasture]

you use it for all of slayer as well

at pretty much every barrage task besides dags

[finite elbow]

do i need the mixed hide cape if i have a skill cape?

[hybrid blaze]

its better to get it

[finite elbow]

but that stats of firecape are better or am i wrong?

Also what construction level do i need for the 4 listed construction build items. Sorry for all the questions is there a word document somewhere?>

[hybrid blaze]

yes, but fire cape is inconvenient to get that early

[hybrid blaze]

75

[finite elbow]

Opps i mean firemaking cape

[hybrid blaze]

no, firemaking cape is worse

[finite elbow]

but its plus 9 in everything?

[hybrid blaze]

not in strength

[finite elbow]

ah okay i see ty

[finite elbow]

is that 75 with crystal saw boost?

[woven nova]

#ironman-discussion message

@finite elbow

[dusky fog]

Can use it at hespori for the CA master time

[hybrid blaze]

No, you need 75 unboosted

[novel sable]

Is there a text version of the new progression? I don't know what a lot of the icons are

[full panther]

if you hover the icons, the names of the items in question should show up!

[novel sable]

Its not showing for me on mobile

All good I just tried on another browser haha

[full panther]

right. Ill make note that generating some list of sorts on an alternate page could be useful

[obsidian cobalt]

Yes id love to see a list version as well, thank you for all your work Ladlor

[finite elbow]

for the rejuv pool it says you need stamina potions so are you suppsed to have 77 herblore at this point?

[severe pasture]

yes

[mortal harness]

should easily be like 78 by then at least, if not 80+

keep in mind u have caviar to extend pots

[dawn bridge]

You can boost from 73 pretty easily with pie

[novel sable]

Is it efficient to skip the tormented demons grind and just do zammy with bowfa?

[hybrid blaze]

No

[low stag]

I just finished the TD and Zammy grind. Trust me, you want scorch bow + greaters task. You shred through zammy

[novel sable]

Do I use crystal armor + scorch bow for zammy?

[low stag]

Yes, crystal legs + body with slayer helm

[novel sable]

These results are with my current stats. It's only about a 2 sec decrease in average ttk

[low stag]

2 max hits makes a big difference. Plus getting scobow gives you the chance for burning claws and emberlight

Also the spec on the bow is a huge help if you ever mess up door altar

[novel sable]

Ah I see that makes sense. Yeah can see how the spec can bail you out if you miss a tick

[verbal sinew]

Sorry if this has been asked but havent played in a couple years, Have bowfa/fang but mage gear is still mystics. Do i bother chasing ahrims or the new moon armour? or am i a mystic lord till ancestral

[fallen raptor]

You can get bloodbark armor, thats also 1% magic dmg

[verbal sinew]

The lower accuracy compared to ahrims/moon stuff not relevant anywhere?

[fallen raptor]

In general you can think dmg >> accuracy in all armor sets

The small difference between accuracy is a slightly higher hit chance, but the dmg gives actual max hits. Max hits (generally) count for more in dps

But you can always check the dps calc to be sure

[verbal sinew]

The blood moon set also has % damaage though doesn't it?

[normal prism]

I think its generally not worth the time it takes to get for the accuracy, but it is better. So you can decide for yourself what you’d rather do

If you are at a later stage it might be faster for you to obtain moons or ahrims, compared to the guide, or it might align with other goals you have, making it worth for you

[full panther]

The Gear Progression has been Updated!

• Versioning has been introduced. The current version is 1.1.0.
• A FAQ section has been added with answers to the most common questions. A link to a dedicated, more comprehensive FAQ page has also been included, which I plan to expand further. Suggestions are welcome!
• A bare-bones version has been released and can be accessed on the main progression page.
• Item selection "memory" is now independent of sequencing, meaning that completions will no longer be affected when new items are added to the sequence.
• Relevant Mixology rewards have been added.
• The gear progression, as always, can be found at https://madssb.github.io/InteractiveGearProg/index.html.

*Please note that https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Madssb/InteractiveGearProg/main/gearprog_speculative.html is deprecated. I can keep it backwards compatible with redirecting to the aforementioned URL, effectively erasing progress (which can be filled back in less than five minutes tbf). Alternatively i keep it as version 1.0.0, with no progress loss, and no effort to update it either. *

[drowsy ore]

Love the placement of the mixology stuff

[blissful crow]

man the gear progression chart has the reddit boy's brains in an absolute pretzel. got a good laugh reading through that thread

[hybrid blaze]

Classic fire cape outrage

In fairness the rebuttals are also not quite accurate

[crystal narwhal]

If you get a fire ape before bruh, Para and Ladlor says you can, Jagex bans your account

[full panther]

i try my best x)

what is the accurate rebuttal?

[hybrid blaze]

The key point is the low amount of melee between where it is reasonable to go for a fire cape (say, 60+ ranged) and the point where you can get a bowfa. I think in the thread people have a vision of training ranged early and then doing a lot of slayer later, to eventually look for CG in a distant future. Instead the ranged training is best done much later, and by the time you are firecape-ready you can also chin to 92 and be close to cg-ready.

The alternatives for training ranged early - stuff like bone crossbow, rune crossbow, even msb, especially on slayer tasks and the likes - just loses a bunch of time. As a result ranged training is highly nonlinear - it is low until you need it for something specific, and then you chin to that target

[fallen raptor]

What thread?

[hybrid blaze]

https://old.reddit.com/r/ironscape/comments/1g95n1v/i_updated_my_interactive_progression_chart_for/

[fallen raptor]

Oh thx, I checked the normal 07scape

[full panther]

tbf there definitely are mistakes in it even still

it was brought to my attention that the mixology rewards for instance can probably be moved to just after the varrock armor 4, given that it at minimum requires 85 herblore

[fallen raptor]

It's mostly quite logical, like you use the things before to get the next block of things

[hybrid blaze]

I, for one, love seeing the same three questions eight to ten times each

[full panther]

the FAQ strives to maybe alleviate that :d

needs some more padding

[normal prism]

Wait what requires 85 herblore?

[hybrid blaze]

varrock elite diary

[normal prism]

Why do mixology after tho? Dont you want the rewards to save secondaries and get extra pots from the pots to 85?

[hybrid blaze]

you do mixology at 81 herb

[normal prism]

Any reason why specifically there?

[hybrid blaze]

mixology unlocks good pots at 81 herb

[normal prism]

But my confusion was mainly why you’d do it after varrock elite instead of before

Unless I misread ladlor

[hybrid blaze]

id do it before

[full panther]

Noted, going in the backlog, along with moving plank sack

[undone flame]

do you just go for 1 pharaoh sceptre or 2? for altar + clue step?

[hybrid blaze]

2, the second is also for getting to toa

you can choose to only get 1 though

[quiet schooner]

i think if u just get 1 and use it on the altar u will probably regret it down the line

[full panther]

requesting a sanity check on these proposed changes:

• plank sack moved to {dscim, imbued b ring ,herb sack} group, to abide by BRUHSailer, if what #general message claims is true.
• defender is sequenced somewhere later than neitiznot helm in BRUHSailer too. at this point, not sure where the defrender would sit, perhaps just swap neit and ddef in the prog?
• move the MM reward inbetween bowfa and varrock armor, as varrock armor is at minimum 85 req, and would do some herb on the way to 85 post 81 at MM. I can see it even being way earlier, though im not sure where BRUHSailer expects the player is around 81 herb.

[wooden isle]

Does the wrath runes icon mean you need to unlock wrath runes the runecrafting level or just finish ds2?

[livid socket]

the level

[severe pasture]

plank sack before kingdom and 70 agility is not good, ive playtested this myself

[woven nova]

yeah personally i did the con step and mh in bruhsailer later

i dont hink it matters 2 much but i didnt have anything to multiskill during it so

didnt have logs to make headless with at the time before some kingdom

[umbral pasture]

the level, but 90 or 91 is sufficient since you can craft a few thousand wraths off one stew boost using scar essence

[wooden isle]

Damn, going lvl 90/91 runecrafting that early

[frozen olive]

Rc helps slayer a lot more than slayer helps rc

[umbral pasture]

it's a big grind, pays off in a lot of prayer xp though

[wooden isle]

Prayer exp?

[umbral pasture]

offering spells

plus you get a lot of runes for barraging along the way

[wooden isle]

Also true

Was thinking about going to blood runes after getting the full set from gotr

Idk what the guide says about where to do runecrafting?

[woven nova]

lavas to 65 -> gotr till ur done -> zmi

[midnight dome]

blood runes is more of a money making method with bonus xp rather than an actual rc training method

also you need blood essence to make it good which you might not have

[wooden isle]

I guess it's best to follow the detailed version instead of the barebones one? Tho some skilling grinds really seem to make it less fun

[fallen raptor]

The skilling grinds are all really useful though

[full panther]

ill be honest, the bare bones isn't that well thought out at this point. It attempts to be a bit less broad, and ignore some stuff that is not so useful if staying true to a strictly pvm gear progression

or maybe useful, but for other reasons maybe can be argued doesn't belong.

[wooden isle]

Ah okay, good to know! I guess I should just suck it up and get through the runecrafting grind etc

[full panther]

as long as you don't burn out

[obsidian cobalt]

That’s the thing with these guides that we gotta remember

These are the most efficient routes. However, if a grind gets too tedious, just take a break and go do something more “fun”

Anytime something seems daunting, go do a rs activity you enjoy more like a boss or something different

[wooden isle]

Also very true, I can level it runecrafting while also doing muspah or bandos sometime

[obsidian cobalt]

Yup exactly. As soon as this IM account is good enough, I’ll be taking breaks to do Barrows bc I love Barrows and the nostalgia and wanna collect it all

[fallen raptor]

Just be aware that if you ask for advice it will generally be efficiency driven

[livid socket]

nobody can advise you on what you consider "worth" doing because it's more fun/less effort/whatever since that's entirely subjective

so we just give advice based on objective metrics like time spent to reach x goal

[mellow folio]

List was extremely Nice for me after completing cg, to just Get some pointers. So many things i had neglected that i did not realize. Even when im not following it 100% all the time it still helps a ton and is super usefull.

[astral dagger]

Woulnd't going for Zenytes before bandos be more optimal? Or I'm I missing something?

[frozen olive]

Dps upgrades in gwd are all pretty small, since your kph is mostly gated by spawn time. It will make learning a bit easier so a lot of ppl postpone until they get them.

I did it with glory and lumby ring just fine

[astral dagger]

I see, I do have 90 crafting so I was just wondering if maybe I should go for one zenyte before GWD for bandos and zammy

but you're right KPH is gated by respawn time

[frozen olive]

Anguish is great if you decide to go that route

[astral dagger]

where would sara godsword fall? I'm guessing before quiver

[severe pasture]

whenever you want to after cg tbh doesnt rly get impacted too much by order of things. right before quiver works

[hollow fern]

Has it been suggested before to add a quick blurb with "what" and "why here?" for each icon when highlighting over them?

For example, I'm pretty sure the black demon icon is purchasing the extended task. Something like "Purchase extended black demon tasks. Unlock before farming zenytes at demonics for longer tasks."

Or for the bowfa/crystal - "Get enhanced weapon and 6 armor seeds at CG. If lucky on drops, thieve elves for remaining shards to make gear. BIS range until Tbow most places, done early because other gear not useful here."

Edit: Allowed boosts might also be helpful here. So ice barrage = 91 + 3, wraths are 1 trip 90 + 5 with extracts, etc.

[pliant bear]

Any reason karamja hard is not bundled with karamja elite?

[livid socket]

hard is a req for elite

[pliant bear]

all of the requirements are met for elite when hard is being done

Just wondering what changes after getting a sceptre and 96 magic

[livid socket]

im saying you cannot complete elite before hard

the game doesnt let you

[pliant bear]

🙂

[livid socket]

unless i misunderstood what you were suggesting

[pliant bear]

If you put the step to get karamja 4 gloves, it would obviously imply to get karamja 3 gloves first

Just like the progression chart assumes you will do morytania elite to get the achievement diary cape

[livid socket]

probably an oversight then

[pliant bear]

My question is why is karamja hard singled out when at that point in the progression chart it is possible to complete karamja elite

[frozen olive]

yeah not sure why it's put there, you get the final req when you do slayer to 100 cmb, pre void

[sonic elm]

Would it be the 87 herb requirement, or is it assumed to have that level by that point?

[pliant bear]

Varrock elite would assume that

[quiet schooner]

I'm a lil surprised sbs is after wraths mostly actually after looking more carefully

[sonic elm]

Ah, elite varrock is there so yeah its assumed 90

[quiet schooner]

Otherwise I don't see any real issue

The icons in the step are just kind of jumbled

[severe pasture]

the only situation where kgloves 3 timing is relevant is if you plan on doing 3t gems for a substantial portion of your mining xp before/around CG, before doing RC

[severe pasture]

im assuming them implication is SBS = 92+4, wraths = 90+5

[drowsy ore]

You can use gem mine with Karamja gloves 2

[severe pasture]

No you can access the gem mine with 2 but the teleport requires 3

Need the tp to properly mine gems

[hybrid blaze]

Its a fun idea but the extensions in the chart are wrong. Putting "this is here as a mistake" in the label would be weird 😛

[radiant pelican]

what is ring of endurance used for?

[frozen olive]

I think it's moreso a symbol for doing sep to high level, the ring itself is small qol

Blast furnace/zmi/herbi

[radiant pelican]

ahhh makes sense, ty

[forest knot]

Am I blind or is bellator not on the progression?

[quiet schooner]

i dont think it is

isnt it just a niche item for cm speeds

[livid socket]

its good at cms with scythe

thats about it

not worth getting for vard or duke

[sudden venture]

Do we know hour estimation for blood bark??

[frozen olive]

~5 hours give or take

[forest knot]

i thought it was also worth bringing for efficient tob

[livid socket]

nope