also-manga

[ruby moat]

Unfortunately it’s impossible for Oda to be kubo based off of the goofy ass outfits we’ve had sometimes

[dense rapids]

Typical OP fans complain about everything

[keen falcon]

Also yeah big fights like that I at least don't expect to be short

How long was zoro vs pica?

[clever quail]

Fortunately*

[thick mango]

the answer cant be cut nothing, include every little thing, so what if its 300 chapters

[keen falcon]

It absolutely could be like 140 chapters for it though

[royal orchid]

oda is an epithet kubo made so he could draw with fun proportions and anatomy when he got bored of drawing bleach

[ashen perch]

Onigashima has some bad tough choices, Egghead has some bad tough choices, I think Oda shouldn't be making these so called tough choices that are the equivalent of him choking himself

[dense rapids]

Then it’s 300 chapters

[hasty sable]

I think Oda should just choke himself

[ruby moat]

We need a kubo x op collab where kubo draws one piece characters drippy as hell

[ashen perch]

Oda's a writer built for freedom

[keen falcon]

I don't think egghead had much bad choices, onigashima was fucking loaded with some though

[ashen perch]

He shouldn't choke himself, not near the finish line

[thick mango]

you wanted onigashima to be longer? Or filter different thigns?

[keen falcon]

Onigashima definitely could've used more filtering but then not offscreen cool stuff like carrot's fight

But so many of the beast pirates were just jackass with zoan #37

[ashen perch]

Onigashima needed filtering, some parts longer, some parts shorter

Egghead needed to be longer imo

[hasty sable]

Needed a three chapter Raizo fight

[dense rapids]

Egghead was perfect

[hot cairn]

I hope so, I believe in the shonen curse

[keen falcon]

I feel like having all the five elders arrive on egghead at once was a bit much and makes them feel a little weaker

[thick mango]

I think its defeatist to say well you made bad filtering chocies in the past so just filter nothing. And also that wouldnt actually lead to a good end product

[hot cairn]

agreed

[royal orchid]

how kubo felt drawing this simple ass fit instead of the usual fashion from one decade in the future somehow

[keen falcon]

Saturn was so scary on his own

[ruby moat]

Damn you kubo you had a chance and blew it

[keen falcon]

And then once they all showed up Luffy started playing with them like toys

[urban lodge]

Kubo should draw the holy knights

[clever quail]

Araki, Inoue or taiyo matsuomoto would be rad, though probably veteran wsj mangaka get this at the end only.

[keen falcon]

Also I kinda do hope that at least 1-3 holy knights get killed off by the final war

Spread them out at least a bit

[ashen perch]

This could've been avoided had Oda focused on them all more, but he ends up focusing an equal amount of very little on them lol

[thick mango]

egghead was pretty close to perfect it just needed to cut maybe like 1-2 chatpers worth of content in act 3

[ashen perch]

😭

[ruby moat]

That’d be so sick

One piece 50th anniversary 🙏

[ashen perch]

Egghead... Cutting...

[thick mango]

i also didnt like the flashback master plan stuff maybe that woudla been good to cut. Though i havent really thought about what the implciations might be

[hasty sable]

Inoue should draw a Straw Hat basketball one shot

[ruby moat]

Nah egghead did not need the “please wait 10 minutes” shit

[ashen perch]

You might as well be choking Oda with your own hands right now

[keen falcon]

I don't think egghead needed much length cut compared to content changes

[hot cairn]

archer what are you even saying lmao, just drop the manga dude

[keen falcon]

flashback master plan?

[spice cairn]

Immaculate bait

[thick mango]

there was that flashback where vegapunk knew it was york all along but wiped his own memory so york wouldnt know he was on to her

[hasty sable]

Thanks

[keen falcon]

Idk I thought it was fairly cool watching the gambit

[ashen perch]

Ofc you wanted a great chapter that informs us of some context about his actions throughout the arc to be cut

[thick mango]

i think it woulda hit better at a different position in the story. If I remember correctly, where it ended up had it feeling like rewriting hsitory after all the stuff had resolved

[hot cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-garbage-absolute-cinema-absolute-garbage-gif-5207933316851837780

[hasty sable]

I would cut Kizaru giving Luffy food

[keen falcon]

That's literally his biggest character moment 😭

[ashen perch]

Can we just cut Laugh Tale

[thick mango]

I think a superior version would have enabled me to infer that rather than spoonfeeding it to me in a flashback after the fact

[hasty sable]

I like everything he does with Kizaru in the arc except that

[ruby moat]

Damn we cutting stuff from the sbs

[hasty sable]

Pretty sure his biggest character moment is murdering his friend

[keen falcon]

They go hand in hand

[hasty sable]

Vegapunk deserved it btw

[ruby moat]

I still think it’s fucked up that Kizaru feeding Luffy was an sbs reveal

[keen falcon]

He kills his friend but also saves his enemy that he used to dance to

[hasty sable]

At least I can ignore it

[keen falcon]

A battle of beliefs and roles

[hasty sable]

in an SBS

[ruby moat]

Or cope and say it was Sanji moving at the speed of light

[hasty sable]

Kizaru being a pure coward is better imo

[dense rapids]

It was Van Augur

[keen falcon]

Kizaru's motto is unclear justice

[ashen perch]

Spoon-feeding isn't inherently a real issue, it was something we could already infer ofc, it existed to reaffirm our inferences

[keen falcon]

Why the fuck would van augur save luffy lmao

[hasty sable]

Genuinely loved what Oda did with him in Egghead and hated that revelation

[ruby moat]

Ooooo that adds even more interesting implications

[dense rapids]

Plot

[hasty sable]

because it undermined what made Kizaru interesting to me

[ruby moat]

Because he knows something we don’t

[keen falcon]

If Blackbeard and them could just kill Luffy they'd be kinda safe at this point from others taking them out

Shanks and Rayleigh both were shitting themselves in fear about him

[harsh lantern]

It was dragon who fed luffy

[keen falcon]

Dragon and Akainu are busy training their desk haki

[clever quail]

What happens if he's later shown to be a double agent?

[harsh lantern]

True

[ruby moat]

When van augur told Saturn their goal was “the world” he wasn’t speaking on behalf of Bb he was talking about his true intentions

[thick mango]

Maybe that's a base level disagreement I think spending time to spoon feed something that could have been inferred is negative.
It's like a lack of faith in the reader. And serves no purpose to any reader who has already reached this conclusion

[keen falcon]

I mean... his actions at egghead basically made him out to be one

[hasty sable]

https://tenor.com/view/kickers-caught-gif-7775692

[harsh lantern]

Such a sick line

[hasty sable]

Then he’s trash

[hot cairn]

boring

[keen falcon]

Affirmation lets those readers who came to those conclusions finally get closure that they were right, so many people still freak out about shanks being a rat even though it wasn't him lmfao

[ruby moat]

Kuzan + van augur double double agent holy

[hasty sable]

Everyone is a double agent

[ashen perch]

I thought it was clever that he did such a non committal betrayal to the WG, doing it out of sight, at the speed of light, so no one can even suspect a thing. It's perfect for the cowardly cog that he thinks of himself as.

[thick mango]

and maybe that goes to the bigger disagreement too. Maybe teh difference in preference for length could be partially explained by the fact that im ok with leaving conclusions in infer/probabilistic territory, i dont think everything needs to be 100% affirmed

[hot cairn]

why do people want everyone to be good

let some people stay in the other side

[keen falcon]

Well sure, but Kizaru is meant to be the iffy one, that's always been his role

Acting stoned off his ass, giggling, not actually doing a damn thing because he doesn't believe in it himself

That's what makes him interesting

And Kuzan is just a mystery

[royal orchid]

I think Luffy should start killing people

[ashen perch]

I see it as just rewarding the reader's investment, the genius's masterplan being inferred from the author's carefully placed clues kind of allows them to feel like they were involved too. Its the same thing with any mystery.

[thick mango]

I can feel rewarded in my interpretation without a chapter going YUP! you got it. Heres the answer

[clever quail]

Agenda piece head canon is real 💪🏼

[keen falcon]

Dealing with the community going nuh uh forever sounds like a nightmare to me

[urban lodge]

He threw like a dozen people into lava in Impel Down

[ashen perch]

I think you're just a believer of extremely efficient storytelling and I just cannot fw that, what are you in such a hurry for?

[thick mango]

my core interaction with the story has nothing to do with the community

[royal orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/marcoelprro-gif-27525382

[thick mango]

its fine if people are wrong

[ashen perch]

The author acknowledging that they did figure out the mystery is basically an ancient trope

Some level of acknowledgement is necessary, Oda did it through a nicely placed flashback

[hot cairn]

One Piece aint that type of story either

[urban lodge]

I associate some gifs with certain users, this is then Steph gif

[thick mango]

i guess i think the ratio of what you can accomplish with the material you have is one of the things that makes your story good

[hot cairn]

I miss Steph

[thick mango]

being able to accomplish more with less material is positive

the more material you include, the higher the bar for what you need to accomplish for it to have been worth it

[ashen perch]

But are you accomplishing it better

At what point is it just a checklist?

[urban lodge]

We all do

[ashen perch]

Where does presentation come into play, pacing, structure? Is it moving?

[thick mango]

pacing is the heart of this

slow pacing is the ratio of material to payoff being too low

[ashen perch]

Pacing as in, natural pacing

Not checklist pacing

[thick mango]

fast pacing is failing to accomplish payoff because you didnt establish enough material

[ashen perch]

Natural pacing is actually extremely important to making a scene mean something, I don't know if you're even considering that with the final war

[hot cairn]

Qbz, I think if it were up to you Imu would get defeated right here and right now. I don’t view that as good storytelling really. It’s just rushing to an end that is unsatisfactory

[thick mango]

nah thats a strawman

i would cut like.. 15% of onigashima. 1-3 chapters of egghead act 3. I cant say what i would cut in elbaf yet. But probably a chapter or two out of the rocks flashback

[ashen perch]

Yes ofc Marineford was extremely efficient in its pacing but it fit the idea that Oda was going for, he wasn't going through a slow, meticulous build to a triumphant victory

It was all meant to resemble an ant being caught up in a storm thats just far too much for it

[keen falcon]

I definitely don't feel like anything from the rocks flashback should be cut

[hot cairn]

Marineford is not comparable to Final War. Storylines actually need to end in Final War.

[thick mango]

maybe it needs to be split up into 2 flashbacks, i felt like it was long enough that I lost track and caring of the present, which is negative

[ashen perch]

Final War is an entirely different ball game here, entirely different level of struggle, all leading towards the single most triumphant victory the series will ever have

[keen falcon]

Manga marineford was like 60% two cool characters clashing against eachother and then running away

[hot cairn]

Marineford was just skirmishes to make Luffy feel like an ant in a jungle

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[hot cairn]

you can’t compare that structure to final war

[keen falcon]

Mihawk vs Vista was like 4 panels

[hot cairn]

it’s a WORLD War

people don’t understand that aspect

we don’t know how it’ll go down yet but the scale will be massive

[ashen perch]

The scale, the struggle, the emotions, drama, all of it will require Oda to take his time with it

[keen falcon]

And I would definitely bet on entire countres like wano, alabasta, and zou making grand appearances during it too

[ashen perch]

I'm sure the entire world will be involved, like he has been saying since like 1999

[keen falcon]

Either it's like, at least 150+ chapters on its own, or it's rushed

[ashen perch]

Yup

[thick mango]

Basically the best thread of final war does not get better if its constantly being interrupted by 15 chapter gaps of 15 other threads. There is a limit to what you can juggle before things start to suffer. And i think it is a waste to include meh threads at the expense of the top tier best threads

[keen falcon]

But to me the final war itself is loaded with top tier best threads

[ashen perch]

That's such a mathematical view of it

[thick mango]

one would hope but being realsitic theyre not all gonna be amazing

[keen falcon]

With characters like dragon involved there's so many important people that are gonna need screentime even ignoring the fodder

And it's Oda, so I'm sure there'll be more fodder too

lmao

[hot cairn]

what exactly do you count as a "meh tier thread" and a "top tier best thread"?

you dont even know what the threads are going to look like

[thick mango]

i could give you exampels if i went and reread onigashima with like a spreadsheet

[hot cairn]

exactly

I agree

[ashen perch]

I'd thoroughly enjoy seeing Paulie do something for example but I imagine that'd be a waste of time to qbz

[thick mango]

it depends what he does

and it depends what the cost is

[keen falcon]

Well I mean Iceburg I could see sending a few guys out

[ashen perch]

Cost...

[thick mango]

i might prefer a Nth blackbeard scene to a paulie scene, yes \

[ashen perch]

I just don't view stories like this

[thick mango]

its not fully zero sum but pagetime is to some extent zero sum

[keen falcon]

Tbh momo screentime in wano felt like it had a cost...

[thick mango]

every thing that is included, in the grand scheme of things, means some other thing couldnt have been included

[hot cairn]

cost?

[thick mango]

opportunity cost

[hot cairn]

why cant we have both

[keen falcon]

I can't agree on that, for the most part the things included are the things Oda wanted to include

But every once in a while there's something that doesn't contribute to the story as a whole

[thick mango]

theres eventually a threshold where theres detriment in the interruption of thread A for the inclusion and development of thread B

we might disagree on where the threshold is but i think we can agree on that right

[keen falcon]

I would've been much happier if Sanji didn't go into the bathhouse in wano and destroy all the character growth I felt like I saw him get in whole cake

[thick mango]

it would be annoying if your favorite thread in final war advances once every 50 chapters right

[keen falcon]

Nah cause I'll be looking forward to almost every thread

Except idk, Ideo pirates or something

Oda would have to introduce new characters I don't like to take away time like that for me

[thick mango]

even if every thread is gold, you would lose track of the therad in question. It loses impact and quality as a result of its frequent and prolonged interruption

and just being real law of averages every thread wont be gold

[keen falcon]

I don't agree with losing track over just like 50 chapters

[thick mango]

thats like 2 years

[keen falcon]

Nothing in one piece time

[thick mango]

imagine there were 2 years between cuts to the wano rooftop

[keen falcon]

I mean... luffy vs kaido did last 2 years lmfao

[thick mango]

yeah it was a lot of chapters over 2 years not 2 years between each chapter

[ashen perch]

I'm not for calculating the exact amount of time a story element could take or tiering up the importance of them and then despairing that oh no, that would be too much for what isn't mega important.

I think what matters more is if people felt something while reading, maybe Oda takes the time to do a great gag in the final war? I wouldn't be losing my mind over the time lost, I'd simply be appreciating that gag. Maybe he takes longer than usual for a fight? I'd not be thinking of it in terms of the cost, but appreciating its quality too

[thick mango]

this is a hyperbolic example but im just giving it to show that ok there is a number where this becomes negative. And maybe that number is different for you than it is for me. But that threshold does exist somewhere for everyone

[gloomy tree]

i mean then other stuff would fill that time, i never felt like stuff was interrupting story threads, eventually they will continue

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[gloomy tree]

like did i enjoy when we were on the rooftop, yes, but i also enjoyed the rest on the lower lvls and i knew eventually we would be back

[thick mango]

there were threads in onigashima that i did not enjoy. But I cant say what specifically cause it was many yaers ago.

[ashen perch]

Its like when people make fun of Luffy being trapped in the snake for 15 chapters or whatever

[ashen perch]

It truly doesn't matter if that time is being filled up with other threads lol

[thick mango]

thats only true if all threads are good, which they arent. At least imo. If you love every single thread im happy for you thats a blessed way to be

[ashen perch]

Yeah maybe Luffy gets trapped in the redline for 40 chapters in the final war, its unlikely but for the sake of argument? I'd just shift my focus on the other things

[gloomy tree]

my goal is not to get all the answers but to enjoy the ride as long as it lasts, the answers will come with it most likely

[keen falcon]

I've been waiting for the thread of dragon's abilities to reveal themselves my entire life(the logue town winds were in 1999)

[ashen perch]

Yeah, there's no use worrying about it

Have you actually

[thick mango]

It doesnt really bother me specifically cause im not that into revos but I think the feeling that the revos havent done much in all this time is a valid critciism

[ruby cape]

I get why the extremely long term readers get tired over it but honestly the waiting game ain’t as bad as people make it out to be when it comes to answers anyways

[keen falcon]

I grew up on one piece and he was always cool as a wee lad and I've still been wondering

[ashen perch]

There are people who say that despite actually only starting the series like 6 years ago so its funny to me, just wondering

[ruby cape]

One way or another you’ll be happy when they’re out

[keen falcon]

I was 6 at the oldest when starting one piece and pretty sure younger

I'm 23 now

[ashen perch]

Gotcha gotcha

[gloomy tree]

thats why i dont really have expectations for how long the final stretch should be, i have been following this story for over 20 years at this point, I might disagree with some of Odas decisions but personally speaking i wasnt disappointed in much in the story, Oda will do his thing

[thick mango]

when i was a kid i distinctly remember water 7 being on tv maybe toonami

[keen falcon]

I was on the web seeing as impel down episodes were dropping

[thick mango]

but i didnt understand what i was watching

[keen falcon]

On onepieceget I think or watchop lmfao

[ruby cape]

dang I’m on the newer side

[gloomy tree]

they started showing OP on German TV in like 2003

in a block with a bunch of other anime

[ruby cape]

I’ve known of its existence since like 2015 but only really got into it round 21/22 before I had to try again

[ashen perch]

It just bothers me as a Usopp fan in particular, because they'd say "we've been waiting for him to do something for a decade" and they only caught up like, last year

Bitch I have actually waited a decade, that was like yesterday to you 😭

[gloomy tree]

i dont get these Usopp needs to die in Elbaph discussions recently

[forest jacinth]

[ruby cape]

It’s always the dumbest takes when it comes to Usopp too

“Give him Haki” “Give him a gun” “Do something stop running” bro

[dense rapids]

Nobody was there Dressrosa weekly

[ruby cape]

Either the second or third point gets me the most

[gloomy tree]

like Usopp always will be a bit cowardish, but he will have his moment where he realises that he has achieved his goal a long time ago

[thick mango]

I think its a fair criticism to say that i particuarly care about this usopp development thread and i am disappoitned in feeling like its been a very long time without that thread advancing in a way i find to be significant and satisfying. I dont share that critcism but that criticism is in line with the overall point/framework im describign here

[ruby cape]

And that form of criticism is also justified by your understanding it’s fair to say that

[ashen perch]

Yup

[gloomy tree]

i actually have, that was the time i caught up after i had taken a break/lost track of it

[keen falcon]

Those ones are absolutely missing on one piece's theme/tone as a whole

[dense rapids]

I wanna say I started reading weekly mid punk hazard

[ruby cape]

Just the majority going on about him having to die I don’t see how you can consume over a thousand chapters and conclude he needs to be erased. No sense

[keen falcon]

Oda barely can stand killing villains much less good guys of the present day

[dense rapids]

Or somewhere around there

[ashen perch]

I don't disagree that its fair, I just find that framing of it in terms of real time very silly qbz

[keen falcon]

And definitely not the straw hats

One piece is about dreams and inheriting will

[unkempt sable]

I don’t think Ussop needs to die in all honesty I think that would more hurt his development.

[clever quail]

Ask them what they feel about skypiea and if they only watched the anime

[unkempt sable]

I haven’t watched skypiea in awhile

[ruby cape]

We don’t need a straw hat to die at all and none will die

[gloomy tree]

the main point im getting from these discussions is people thinking he needs to die to proof he is a brave warrior

[clever quail]

Brooke reawakens his df to bring usopp back from the dead. Real god usopp loading

[ruby cape]

Don’t know why people think Oda will genuinely just knock one off

[dense rapids]

Wdym Brook is already dead?

[thick mango]

I dunno I find it similar to a season of TV or a book in a series. It's not unfair to say that a large unit of investment was unable to advance your preferred threads because it's become too crowded with other threads

[unkempt sable]

https://tenor.com/view/brooke-one-piece-brooke-spin-brooke-one-piece-brooke-joy-gif-16617681466576271090

[ruby cape]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-ishowspeed-yeah-right-ishowspeed-yeah-ishowspeed-right-ishowspeed-stream-gif-2870397197282141259

[forest jacinth]

[keen falcon]

I could plausibly see Jinbe or Brook being killed off by the end but still don't think they would

[dense rapids]

I won’t be mad if a Strawhat doesn’t die but I’ll be happy if one does

[prisma idol]

No SH is ever going to die

[dense rapids]

I think the big death will be shanks or garp

[keen falcon]

But then again Brook has to go see Laboon

And I feel like it'd be weird for him to die after that

[prisma idol]

Neither will shanks or Garp

[formal wagon]

Strawhat tierlist based on whos most likely to die

[dense rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-bro-hand-on-shoulder-gif-11963500747147243380

[forest jacinth]

I don't see or feel the need any of them dying

[royal orchid]

I can see Garp dying

[prisma idol]

Shanks has his connections with Luffy, and the Figarlands

[dense rapids]

Final War will make marineford look like nothing

[thick mango]

sure maybe putting it in real years publication terms is like.. inhernetly misrepresenting and hyperbolic though Id agree with taht

[clever quail]

The big death will be Luffy

[dense rapids]

Ok?

[royal orchid]

very specific scenario needed though

[prisma idol]

The one with the highest chance is Garp

[ruby cape]

kill GARP bro

[forest jacinth]

It'd have to be something super like deep meaning like final war or something

[prisma idol]

But considering Oda didnt kill him in the hachinosu raid I think that time has passed

[mighty quail]

No no Garp has to be Luffy's redeeming moment for what happened to Ace

[dense rapids]

Shanks will be a Blackbeard victim

[keen falcon]

Yeah I feel like that would've been meaningless if Oda just kills off Garp later

[keen falcon]

I do worry that this could happen though

[prisma idol]

I feel like his connection along with the Child of fate thing, keeps his importance too high for him to actually get a death from the one people think will kill him, BB.

[dense rapids]

Just like Ace

[ruby cape]

Oda had every opportunity to kill Garp with Shiryu getting behind him but he didn’t. Garp ain’t dying

[royal orchid]

garp has to die for letting ace be killed simply for the crime of being born

[distant vine]

None of them are dying

[royal orchid]

I said it I don't care it's true

[keen falcon]

Not even commenting on that one

[prisma idol]

Mailbox is delusional

[mighty quail]

yeah but that's our annoyance not Oda's writing lmfao

[forest jacinth]

[distant vine]

BUT, if you made me say who's most likely to die? Maybe Zoro

But none of them are dying

[thick mango]

one straw hat is dying max. And probably not even that. Id bet on zero sh deaths

[formal wagon]

probably luffy

[forest jacinth]

I think if one had to die it'd be Luffy when he finishes his dream

[ruby cape]

if I had to gamble on one and couldn’t choose none then it’d be Luffy

[forest jacinth]

because all the shit he does is probably not good on his health

[keen falcon]

I really really don't like the thought of luffy dying at the end

[mighty quail]

listen I came in here to complain about people saying Ryou instead of Ryuo still, but man I gotta say, there's a lot of outcomes that people are ignoring, and one of them is Blackbeard pulling a reverse Marineford.

[keen falcon]

Death is the ultimate loss of freedom

[formal wagon]

[royal orchid]

I'd love to see the %s if we made a server bet

[thick mango]

luffy cant die of "I reached laugh tale" disease cause that would mess up chopper

[keen falcon]

Reverse marineford?

[formal wagon]

this, and because i dont like him

[clever quail]

The screams of a thousand fujoshis will resonate across nippon and the world shall know true pain.

....Wrong mango

[mighty quail]

He's gonna execute Garp, the greatest Marine.

[ruby cape]

but I really hate the idea of accomplishing a dream just to die after that

[keen falcon]

How the fuck are you a one piece reader that doesn't like luffy 🙁

[mighty quail]

or at least attempt to, per se.

[ashen perch]

But they didn't actually go through that time, and even if they did (very unlikely), they're analysing a flawed metric and ignoring the 100 chapter void for him and all the breaks in between. It is fair to accept that he can be allowed some grace even now, that maybe you can give him some more chapters to shine (a legitimate metric)

[dense rapids]

Twitter fans putting in stocks for Two Piece characters 😂

[keen falcon]

But even then Usopp has had a good few moments in Elbaf

[prisma idol]

Isnt she anime filler

[royal orchid]

this stopped being a thing post timeskip though and now with g5 even worse

[keen falcon]

More than I feel he's had sincee Dressrosa

[dense rapids]

I don’t remember

[mighty quail]

hey dreams can be dreams.

she is, yes

[urban lodge]

Yeah she's from tequila wolf

[ruby cape]

Ya she ain’t canon

[thick mango]

yeah id agree that viewing it in terms of real life publication time is misleading. But i dont think the critcism falls away when viewed through the lens of chapters

[clever quail]

Love Luffy, but see him as the only crewmember with a real chance of dying to free the world

And then being revived by chopper but bereft of the df.

[wraith mantle]

your mom aint canon

[keen falcon]

I think the story would end with Luffy wanting to keep going on adventures, and the devil fruit makes that fun

[ruby cape]

your LIFE is a filler episode

[mighty quail]

fair on arguing that way for plot threads btw, but I've switched my perspective on reading entirely to character shoes lol (aka putting yourself in their emotional and mental position) so I dunno. plot threads are plot threads, but the experience from the character's perspective still hasn't shattered (maybe a few cracks but not that many)

endings will always be like this, sometimes a plot thread gets saved for a specific moment but that dooms the character to not really be able to develop further in the meantime.

it's also why I'm 100% expecting an Elbaph 1 month training arc like in Udon, but this time for the rest of the crew. Gaban can help

[thick mango]

Basically I dont think people are wrong or ignornat or anything to say that my favorite character/thread/plot is X and I want more of X and the inclusion of ABCDEF probably the cause of my desired progress on X being insufficient in my view

Usopp and dragon are common examples though not ones I personally agree with

[lofty fern]

You could also say its the ultimate freedom, depending on perspective

[keen falcon]

Some of the characters that I want to have flashbacks right now(which several of them will probably share, but still):

1. Brook
2. Gunko
3. Five Elders
4. Sommers
5. Joyboy
6. Imu
7. Davy
8. Mihawk
9. Crocodile
10. Urouge
11. Akainu
12. Dragon
13. Shanks
14. Blackbeard

[lofty fern]

Luffy was a possible for me, though I could still see him being alive in the end. I can see Usopp dying, I could also see Jinbe.

[thick mango]

Dragon might even work better with his reduced page time but who can say without the alternative version to compare

[mighty quail]

Dragon definitely isn't, people forget his purpose far too easily. The revolutionaries are specifically not clearly involved in the Grand Line, since their business is largely the kingdoms outside of it (though they will step in for a few like Lulusia)

[ashen perch]

I think it'd be just easier to extend some grace to him though because with chapters you also began to view it in terms of in universe time, you can think that he could've been a bigger focus before while still recognizing that there's plenty more to come where he could do all that, that his journey is only getting started. Those so called 10 years are only a mere month of his life after all lol

[clever quail]

And they're still teens.

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[mighty quail]

Usopp could've had more moments, but like. I think the problem with him is that he keeps getting put in near death situations but doesn't fully gain control over his haki or understand it really, which is also why I insist on that training arc.

[keen falcon]

Only a few of them

[thick mango]

yeah but i think every chapter a reader consumes is like part of their investment yknow. It being a small part of the character's life doesnt do anything for the fact that it has been a large amount of investment from the reader

[keen falcon]

Luffy, Usopp, Chopper I think?

[ashen perch]

Its a process, Luffy's just a monster but Usopp's only human. I just think it's only fair to give him some time, real time.

[thick mango]

Like a page/panel is the fundamental unit of reader investment it doesn't matter if it covers a second or 5 years

[keen falcon]

Though Chopper's a deer

[mighty quail]

well that is why many advocate bingeing. since it takes off the cost of investment. but at the same time, then you miss details.

[ashen perch]

I think if they were more invested, they'd recognize that it was never going to be quick for Usopp

Or easy

[keen falcon]

I think Whole cake not having usopp made people feel it a lot more

[thick mango]

i agree with you on the usopp front but putting myself in their shoes they might say hundreds of chapters isnt anywhere close to quick or easy

[ashen perch]

Yeah that's what I meant by the hundred chapter void lol

They're straight up forgetting that ofc he didn't do anything when he wasn't even there!

[thick mango]

but he wasnt there because of the proliferation of threads got to a point where there was plenty to cover without him even being present

he wasnt there partially because pagetime is zero sum

[ashen perch]

He wasn't there because Oda wanted to focus on the crewmembers that weren't a focus in Dressrosa, actually

[thick mango]

exactly. We have to choose a focus we cant just focus on infinite things

[keen falcon]

Yeah, but he split them at dressrosa probably because he didn't feel like giving them time there

Though I think we're well past the crew being split up in arcs now

[ashen perch]

I think the split happened to allow that time to go towards establishing the fleet

[keen falcon]

I think maybe there was too much power growth and tension for all the straw hats to be there because Luffy needed a lottt of focus to grow so he could rise to the top

[ashen perch]

So after it was said and done, he realized that he must make for the lost screentime for the other half of the crew and they all did some pretty great stuff in WCi.

[mighty quail]

I'm not sure why there's such a gap in the way others experience that investment, b/c I've just recently watched like 6 separate reactors and a reaction mashup, and the way they all took the pacing was vastly different between each one. felt like each group found something to pull themselves in on, even if it wasn't the same thing. some people focused on details, some focused on the world, some focused on hype moments... I think I've only found 2 that actually match a portion of how I experience it, so like. I dunno.

I also saw the comments from some of the people who dropped fully explaining (because I remember the ones who dropped mid Wano as well) and honestly... to each their own, but some of those complaints literally come down to hyperfocusing, as well as annoyingly, cough reading comprehension. also ignoring parallels, shit like that.

[keen falcon]

Between Dressrosa and Whole Cake luffy went from underdog to peer

So that at Wano he could go from just another competitive pirate to an emperor

[hot cairn]

https://x.com/_uhhoh/status/2049726972465733724?s=20 @urban lodge

!!!!! (@_uhhoh)

*poof*

X · Apr 30, 2026, 5:46 AM

[mighty quail]

I think my point in saying all that is that you could per se view reader investment that way, but it certainly isn't that simple.

.....lol

[ashen perch]

But also, even that is a flawed metric, the real metric is real in universe time.

[keen falcon]

Terrifying metric when dressrosa happened in a day LOL

[thick mango]

well the buy-in is constant but yeah people prefer different things, appreciate different things. So some people feel dissastisfied that their buy in of time and effort doesnt have enough payoff in their preferrred areas, whether that be the world, certain plots, certain characters, etc.

[keen falcon]

I need a supercut of dressrosa in real time really bad ngl

[ashen perch]

Yeah I can't see it happening either now, but I could see a similar idea at play with the final war simply because of the scale

[mighty quail]

honestly I might chalk up the frustration on the part of certain things to them unsuspending their own disbelief.

[thick mango]

I see this in the context of buy-in of reader time and effort which has nothing to do with in universe time. Its people wanting whatever their specific favorite thing in exchange for takign the time to care about the story and read it

[keen falcon]

I mean they could split up from being next to eachother, but they're not going to be written out of the story entirely for arcs anymore

[ashen perch]

Oh yeah true true

[clever quail]

There's enough fiction and non fiction out there and DYOA to make head canon from

[ashen perch]

But something close to it, like split across islands and plotlines? I can see it with the Final War for sure

[keen falcon]

Yeah

They could be at different islands during the final war

[ashen perch]

Yupp

[keen falcon]

They gotta meet up a few times during it though

[ashen perch]

I imagine it'll conclude with them coming together atleast

[urban lodge]

I love this artist, happy they're back to drawing one piece

[mighty quail]

when you do unsuspend disbelief, you do tend to zone in on things that you probably shouldn't be paying attention to other than to call it a flaw and move on. like the story arc structure for example. it exists the way it does because it's stable, and what you should be paying attention to is what's unique and deviating from the standard plot structure. if somebody still zones in on the flaws, it's not just that it's likely to make them drop it, it's guaranteed that they can drop the series at any moment. reader investment is not really the metric to measure that by, rather than simply... not zoning in.

[keen falcon]

Also, I don't think this will happen, but sometimes I imagine at the end the straw hats have to turn around and do one big cycle through all the islands they previously visited and make it back to reverse mountain lmao

[mighty quail]

like it's not a criticism on their part, it's just. story threads exist for you to react to them when they're brought back up, but if you zone in on it too much, it just breaks the story up too much and that will inherently hamper your enjoyment and ruin what could be called reader investment. But the problem isn't that plot threads aren't being handled, the problem is that when it comes to authors flaws, you need to accept them and move on to what you actually care about. so maybe it's just simply that they care too much for the flaws, in the end.

technically, that was the same mistake I made over the filler in anime. I was correct, but I should have simply moved on and changed perspective upon noticing a repeated flaw that I had no control over.

[clever quail]

Some just like their own interpretation of events rather than read the real version of a story and judge it on its merits. It's not the author's version they are interested in after a point.

[mighty quail]

which I did do in the end, but it killed my interest in One Piece for... 4 years?

[mighty quail]

Hollywood smh

[keen falcon]

Well one piece's issue is not enough fillers and too much padding in canon episodes

[thick mango]

i agree with you in terms of like.. outcomes and what behavior people should take. But i dont think we have to say that like.. any critisim is fundamentally pointless and you should just choose not to engage if youre finding things that you consider to be flaws

[mighty quail]

it's not about not engaging, it's about not zoning in. the context should always be larger than the topic. I can't blame them, because I know how easy it is to get stuck in it, but I will still argue the flaw here isn't a misuse of reader investment or the plot threads not being followed.

[thick mango]

like yeah if yorue not having fun you should stop but that doesnt mean theres no value in digging into why you were dissatisfied or that you might be disatisfied in minor ways that arent significant enough for you to quit

and yeah youll have more fun if you go along for the ride and just enjoy things that i definitely agree with

[clever quail]

Criticism regarding pacing of character development without considering that the story is not character centric is a flaw in the reader

[thick mango]

I dont think calling readers flawed is a useful lens

[mighty quail]

like I would say. if you keep noticing the flaws, what should be done is without zoning in, just simply identify and clarify what the flaws are, note them all done, and then whenever that flaw comes up, say "I already know that one, but I won't let it hamper my enjoyment" and move on.

[keen falcon]

Depends on the flaw

[thick mango]

it seems like it falls into like a solipsism that the things i value are what this story is about and the things you consider to be flaws arent important points that should be dwelled on

[keen falcon]

Big mom screaming wedding cake for like 20 episodes was pretty painful

[mighty quail]

the problem is that many times it actually is their own fault, which I'm not gonna blame them for, but we should still be clear that it was their problem not inherently the authors problem.

[ashen perch]

I mean they might as well wait more if they've waited long enough, I just don't think people understand it with Usopp. He has been doing things, cool things, important things, things that they couldn't have lived without, but he wont be a god overnight (not counting time dilation!). He's only human, and I think seeing this very human guy grow into something special will take its time, but it'll be all the more worth it when he does. He doesn't have the growth rates of Luffy, Zoro, Sanji or Koby and that's okay for him.

[mighty quail]

Toei doesn't count, that's an AU lol

[keen falcon]

Well the only reason it's not painful in the manga is a lack of voice acting

lol

One thing that's nice about manga is you can turn the page whenever you'd like

[ashen perch]

It wasn't even an issue for me when I read WCI weekly tbh

[opal gull]

Feels like a mismatch of expectations tbh. One Piece stopped being a crew focused story and became a massive world narrative. If you're here mainly for specific characters you will feel the gaps way more I guess

[ashen perch]

Katakuri v Luffy felt like it dragged more for me, although I don't agree with that anymore either

[clever quail]

If a fan of Mary Sue or gary stus starts expecting usopp to get character development by blasting an admiral apart by end of series, where would you place the blame when their investment turns into sunk cost

[keen falcon]

I don't agree that one piece stopped being crew focused, it's just that some crew members get put in the backseat more than others now

Nami has had soooo much

Chopper and Usopp feel largely sidelined

[mighty quail]

yeah, per se. clashing perspectives will always be that way though. I always value the story as the sum of its own parts including the author's flaws as an incidental. so I will not pull the author's flaws in as an inherent rule to judge the story by, because that's meta and honestly a bit annoying. others can do whatever they want of course, I'm just saying a story isn't judged by reader investment not being fulfilled based on plot threads, because that would be zoning in on one singular flaw when there are per say quite a few others

[ashen perch]

I disagree on Chopper

And Usopp too, really

[opal gull]

Oh yeah, that is what people mean by not crew focused anymore, what I meant was that the focus feels very selective at times

[keen falcon]

Usopp's finally gotten some screentime again, but compared to several others in the crew he hasn't gotten much post-dressrosa

[opal gull]

rather than being balanced

[thick mango]

they are responsible for their own disappointment i supopse but i dont think that makes their preferences incorrect

[keen falcon]

Robin, Brook, Nami, Jinbe all I'd say have gotten more than he has despite also not being the big three

[mighty quail]

I think I did actually say that when Wano ended, told everyone to go reread Wano before assuming anything about how they felt the arc should've been. sometimes another runthrough is all that's needed (like right now where I'm stopping myself from saying Usopp was useless on Wano because I genuinely don't remember )

[thick mango]

I liked the snake oil thing

[ashen perch]

But heavily on Chopper, he has not stopped being a focus, not even close to it. In Onigashima, Oda dedicated an entire plotline to him, much to the chagrin of the readers that complain about it even now. Same is the case with his very apparent role in Punk Hazard and WCI. Chopper's grown as a doctor, as a person when he acted as a more confident big brother to Carrot in WCI and he's undergoing something as a fighter as Oda teases his awakening

[mighty quail]

in context of this though not quite related to your comment, I will be very sad if Usopp doesn't use seastone nails as bullets in the final battle

[thick mango]

I want more pop greens

[keen falcon]

lol usopp snipes Imu with seastone nails letting luffy get the kill

[clever quail]

Incorrect, no, misplaced, yes. It's the author's work at the end of the day, and their interpretation of character progression is the one that matters for judgement of the character.

[mighty quail]

if he can Haki pop greens sure, but otherwise it'd just be a fodder clearer. which is certainly not bad, but then I'd have the same complaint as the gary stu fans, which... ew.

why do I gotta share an opinion with those guys

[keen falcon]

Yeah Usopp's in a rough spot because he's a sniper

So either he oneshots top tiers or he does crowd control

[ashen perch]

Chopper's actually very consistently remained a strong focus in nearly every arc that he has been a part of, and it just gets overlooked because people like to focus on the silly "mascot" shit (that he has been since Oda heard the voice of Ikue Otani in Drum Island lol).

Usopp's case is a bit weird to me, because like I said, there's the 100 chapter void

In Wano, what he gets is incredibly important, but Oda fails in the presentation of it

[keen falcon]

Usopp vs Van Augur will be the hypest sniper duel of all time

[mighty quail]

remember when everyone said Shanks would fight Blackbeard first.

[opal gull]

Tbh a char like Usopp needs to use clever tricks to win battles. Like before he had moments fighting Perona, Helping Robin etc. But now a lot of it is just crying and breaking down. I guess for his fights Oda would need to make more effort, cause its not just harder punches = win or haki upgrade and he wins. There would need to be a proper setup for his fight.

[keen falcon]

He might

I'm really not sure what the plan is for shanks and blackbeard right now

[mighty quail]

though honestly imagine Oda pulls a fast one and it's a Luffy Shanks Blackbeard 3way.

and then Buggy breaks the situation somehow

[keen falcon]

I expect luffy and shanks to have a friendly duel for the straw hat, possibly even a davy back fight

When blackbeard's around shanks won't fuck with luffy

[mighty quail]

still expecting Joyboy's issue to be a davy back fight with Davy Jones...

[ashen perch]

That's where the pacing bit him in the ass, if you don't present something well enough, you will have the readers overlooking it for sure. His persistence against Page One and Ulti, his incredible support against those pesky gifters, his rescue of Kinemon and Kiku. These are all very important things that Oda could've presented better.

[clever quail]

This really differs among people based on whether they think yasopp does something comparable and if Usopp necessarily has to prove himself better by EoS I suppose.

[opal gull]

Maybe BB gets a broken 3rd fruit somehow? I guess we can have Shanks and Luffy teamup and beat BB

[keen falcon]

It might be just cause I don't like the gifters or page one at all

That them being there actively reduces my fun with it

[ashen perch]

Well fair

[keen falcon]

For all we know he already has one

[opal gull]

Cause I have Shanks in the Figarland fued as well and for me that comes after BB has been defeated for the race to OP

[ashen perch]

But thats where presentation is also important, Page One fails to be interesting because Oda does very little with him onscreen

[opal gull]

maybe

[keen falcon]

Well also he's just an unfunny eyesore

[ashen perch]

He's just a one-note dino that we're only left to assume was significant trouble for both Nami and Usopp

[mighty quail]

I think like. because it just feels like "yay, Usopp took care of fodder. yay, Kinemon and Kiku were saved." because obviously we can rationalize that it was stated clearly to be wasting time, and both Kinemon and Kiku had important tasks still at that point that they completed afterwards, but that's all hindsight? so it just doesn't feel important enough.

[ashen perch]

He's a pretty nothing character, which is unfortunate because I did like Ulti

[keen falcon]

Ulti is fun and hot :3

[opal gull]

Then there is the burn scar man, I guess maybe BB reaches to him first and then Luffy and Co have to fight BB to get the final Poneglyph and then we can add Shanks to the equation as well. Another way might be, BB and Luffy arrive to the burn scar man at the same time or something?

[keen falcon]

Blackbeard is missing the whole cake poneglyph I think

[mighty quail]

....wait, actually. Where is Caribou currently?

[keen falcon]

But maybe he got that when raiding them for pudding?

[urban lodge]

Definitely

[keen falcon]

Hachinosu with Devon and Augur

[trim lily]

with the bbp

[urban lodge]

If that's what they got her for in the first place

[jagged geode]

Considering Davy back fights are his making we must see some in the flashback

[mighty quail]

oh and we have pudding with them now. fuck...

we're getting derailed, absolutely

[trim lily]

well davy jones didn’t start the davy back fight, they were just named after him

cause of his myth

[mighty quail]

my only question would then be, like. that is the war that causes Fishman Island's destruction. so where does Garp place in all of this.

[opal gull]

We didnt see them take it yeah, but maybe Augur warped and got it?

I mean if they wanted to, nothing was stopping them from taking it

[ashen perch]

I'll disagree, Oda does place a significant amount of importance on the gifters and has them play a big role in all the individual fights until Tama is able to turn it all around with Usopp. I think people just forget that.

Kinemon and Kiku were done really, they had nothing to do, its Usopp's fiery speech that makes them cling on their life again and move with him with renewed purpose. Its a great moment!

A part of it is really just... People forgetting lol

[jagged geode]

Oh okey

[ashen perch]

I don't blame them for it necessarily, but I think its silly to overlook Usopp's important contributions just because they weren't memorable enough in an arc occupied by 2 dozen more memorable things

[jagged geode]

Can’t recall exactly who the island is

[mighty quail]

no yeah 100% I agree, but I'm saying that's how people felt about it because so much importance was placed on the rooftop and the central area at the time, while that stuff was all happening in the side halls. like it felt more to them like skittering around, rather than actually taking care of stuff? I certainly don't agree with that position, b/c I can actually read further into it, but like... I get how they got to that perspective.

[keen falcon]

Avalo Pizarro

[trim lily]

the best blackbeard pirate

[ashen perch]

That's why I do concede that Oda could've done a better job at presenting it, it was a big deal that just felt lesser due to the lack of more emphasis on it unfortunately

[keen falcon]

We could stand to have flashbacks for all the bb pirates

We know jackshit about almost any of them

[ashen perch]

Not even close

That's Kuzan

[keen falcon]

I think we got a bit about Shiryu

[mighty quail]

Onigashima too big, Luffy too big, Kaido too big, fist too big, can't see important side plot even when it comes up to your face and screams "this is why less people died in the battle, no fuck the claims about fakeout deaths."

[gloomy light]

Snoreyu

[urban lodge]

The BBPs kinda suck

[mighty quail]

I. Will. Stand by that.

[trim lily]

unfortunately what i said was a statement not an opinion

he is objectively the best

[ashen perch]

He's one of the worst ngl

[keen falcon]

I can't judge Kuzan without knowing why he's doing any of this

It feels so out of character to me for him to join the worst pieces of shit when he was supposed to be guilty about that as a marine

Unless he's SWORD or something

[mighty quail]

Kuzan's the shittiest though, I agree with Garp on the comment he made

[ashen perch]

What has Pizarro even done than suck and cry and scream with a cool DF

[trim lily]

he’s funny and makes cat puns

[mighty quail]

like "you get your freedom and THIS is what you do? you fucking dumbass!"

[ashen perch]

Ehhhhh

[gloomy light]

Sanjuan is objectively the biggest bum of the BBP

[ashen perch]

He's a grown man

Those cat puns don't fit

[mighty quail]

.........wait oh I just got that

[trim lily]

arsal cant handle a guy with whimsy

[ashen perch]

He should grow up I think

[urban lodge]

Pizarro is funny, he's among the best half

[trim lily]

he deserved better

[urban lodge]

I hope he's the first one to betray Teach

For bullying him

[mighty quail]

Kuzan still has the mark, doesn't he? he was an admiral.

[trim lily]

he’s actively tried to betray him already lmao

[mighty quail]

do we know for a fact that all admirals have the mark?

[trim lily]

what mark

[urban lodge]

True

[trim lily]

if you mean the imu mark then none of them do

[mighty quail]

maybe that was just me being confused, but I thought the- yeah ok I was wrong

[keen falcon]

Yeah he at least seemed to save Garp

So I have no idea what he's actually doing there

[trim lily]

i meant pizarro but yeah kuzan also isn’t fully for blackbeard either

[opal gull]

Oh yeah thats only Steel Knight, Gods Knight and Gorosei iirc

[trim lily]

but i really really hope he isn’t a spy or part of sword or something

[keen falcon]

I just can't judge kuzan without more info

[keen falcon]

But it feels to me like he is because otherwise he doesn't make sense to me

[trim lily]

i think it’s infinitely more interesting if kuzan joined out of his own choice

[gloomy light]

Kuzan being part of sword would be so lame

[opal gull]

I think it says that only 13 people have the deep sea and the deep deep sea covenant

[urban lodge]

I think Kuzan is genuinely just stupid

[opal gull]

but idk about the shallow sea contract

[keen falcon]

Yeah 13 people have level 2/3 covenants

[mighty quail]

btw I'm just laughing at the fact that the Live Action made it even more clear Shanks lost his arm on purpose and I didn't realize it until now

[trim lily]

that could be it too

[urban lodge]

And thought BB was his best bet at achieving whatever he wants to do

[mighty quail]

like as in obvious, not canon

[trim lily]

me being with the guy who runs a slave trade is much better than being with the marines

[opal gull]

yeah, the shallow one is God's Steel, which I guess the only ones we have seen so far were Shanks and Harald. Tho Harald also gets the Deep Sea Contract as well

[trim lily]

kuzan is the first morally blue character

[urban lodge]

Or the guy who is ALSO trying to overthrow the world government but through not extremely evil means

[keen falcon]

Yeah either he's just being super dumb as fuck or he has a big plot

[wraith mantle]

Vote Bonney

[trim lily]

though i imagine he wouldn’t want to just join another military

even if they are good

[keen falcon]

And I'd bet on luffy over blackbeard any day

[ashen perch]

If he's not solo, I think he's going to be connected to Burn Scar

[thick mango]

kuzan has the possibility to be like top 3 characters eos

[urban lodge]

Oh I meant Dragon but Luffy also works lmao

[keen falcon]

Oh fair

But imagine if Kuzan was a straw hat lmfao

[mighty quail]

I feel like he was both being dumb, and may have actually caught the D from blackbeard, forcing him into BB's dream or something.

[ashen perch]

His reaction to being called Burn Scar felt a little suspicious to me, like he knows the guy

[trim lily]

i think it was meant to be a joke with him also having a burn scar

[keen falcon]

Yeah us not having a clue about burnscar drives me nuts

[keen falcon]

Well burnscar is rumored to be a marine

[ashen perch]

well jokes can be more than jokes

[mighty quail]

I saw people throwing comments about the eyepatch guy as well, though that's still a meta character

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[wraith mantle]

If Oda lands his redemption arc

Kuzan can be a really great character I agree

[keen falcon]

Eyepatch guy is going to be interesting, but burnscar is rumored to be the one with the last road poneglyph to the one piece

[wraith mantle]

wtf

[urban lodge]

Oda already showed us Burn Scar though... In the ASL flashback...

[mighty quail]

a.

[wraith mantle]

Virus

[keen falcon]

So burnscar is more painful

[ashen perch]

a.txt

[trim lily]

sabo

[opal gull]

nah it was the image lmao

[urban lodge]

Bluejam actually

[trim lily]

ohh

close

[wraith mantle]

Jhee man if you want my credit card info just ask

[ashen perch]

Davy Jones was in the ASL flashback?

[trim lily]

anyway the burn scar man is sunbell

[wraith mantle]

Don’t try to fool me 🥹

[opal gull]

[ashen perch]

You know the scammers are getting real smart now

[opal gull]

also wasnt there some news that Oda said The Burn Scar man would appear in 2026

[trim lily]

as a sunbell truther i stand proud knowing my choice is the only one to match all the requirements

[ashen perch]

They roleplay as a friend in DMs

[trim lily]

yeah

[thick mango]

odas yearly messages are full of lies

[mighty quail]

yeah, they post 4 images of mr beast now, how very smart

[trim lily]

but oda loves to lie

[ashen perch]

And many have been getting fooled lmao

[thick mango]

There was a period of time where people with variations of QBZ were friending me like every other day

[ashen perch]

Believe it or not, the number of scammers we catch is higher than mostly ever

[thick mango]

i wonder what the scam was

[ashen perch]

So it's clearly effective

[thick mango]

are people falling for the oh shit dude same username scam

[trim lily]

it’s weird how many people the mr beast scam is getting

like higher than normal

[mighty quail]

is it actually getting people!? wtf

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[royal orchid]

most of the scammers that message here in the server are accounts that have been members for years

[keen falcon]

If it wasn't getting people it wouldn't be so prolific

[opal gull]

I guess you would need to check the icon if you have them added as friend already or not

[thick mango]

i imagine every big server is constantly being bombarded by scams

[urban lodge]

Could have been when discord changed their naming system from the number system to unique usernames

[trim lily]

i saw one account hijacked that had a fully loaded profile with nitro

[ashen perch]

Yup, all people that fall for the scam and get their accounts taken away

[opal gull]

if its not a tick and you know you had them as friend, it means its a scam

[urban lodge]

Maybe they wanted to buy the qbz name from you

[ashen perch]

I have recognized more than a few

[trim lily]

very high value

[ashen perch]

Its scary

[thick mango]

whenever you see a person with like a role color who has been here for a while posting some BS they fell for some previous scam

[royal orchid]

if the edge of your lips rotate even ONE NANOMETER UPWARDS you get casted into the infernal pits of tartarus

[urban lodge]

The MrBeast scam is so funny

[royal orchid]

the website one?

[dense haven]

wtf how does that work

do they steal their pfp and name

[urban lodge]

The one with the 4 images

[mighty quail]

whaaaaaat

[ashen perch]

Their whole account spice

[royal orchid]

I actually went into that website once

[mighty quail]

I had to look up sunbell, btw.

[royal orchid]

I wanted to see how bad it was

[blazing depot]

Chapter is coming! Chapter is coming!

[dense haven]

thats some crazy work

[ashen perch]

Then they go through the friend list and start dm-ing

[blazing depot]

https://tenor.com/view/usopp-young-usopp-run-running-one-piece-gif-760307084827123506

[dense haven]

wait

you mean someone who has access to your account?

[royal orchid]

it's actually the worst scam ever made and I don't believe anyone with half a brain falls for it

[opal gull]

wasnt there a time when some staff fell for that weird scam

it started with blaming you for being a bad person etc and that proof is on a certain server and if you tried to check that server. You would get hacked or someshit

[urban lodge]

Fr though HOW do people fall for it

[trim lily]

he has flame markings on his arm, he’s a fishman so he could’ve both taken the poneglyph from fmi and make whirlpools, he’s a roger pirate so he would both know about poneglyphs and have incentive to keep it safe

[blazing depot]

I’m in discords for school and students get scammed and hacked all the time

[trim lily]

it’s sunbell baby

[keen falcon]

You can't do this to me

[urban lodge]

I get it if you're a literal child, but besides that?

[royal orchid]

nah have you been to it

[ashen perch]

Anyone who falls for a scam is basically guaranteeing their loss of account

[blazing depot]

This one time a guy sent nsfw links in the class discord at night pinging everyone

[dense haven]

idk man those milfs are surely in my area

[royal orchid]

it asks you for money, like I think 50 USD before you can withdraw the 5000 in your account

[opal gull]

Complacency i guess?

[ashen perch]

The first thing discord scammers do is take your account, before literally anything else lol

[royal orchid]

it's so fake

[trim lily]

surely mr beast would want to talk to me personally

[urban lodge]

MrBeast is in desperate need of your 50 dollars

[thick mango]

i think the whole idea is theyre trying to climb the ladder or traverse the web of social connections. stealing accounts where people are well known to appear more trustworthy and steal more accounts. eventually finding some thing a value like a mod or using them as advertising or whatever

[dense haven]

well ofc I thought you mean someone who would roleplay as one of your friends with an entirely new account

[mighty quail]

considering I've seen people dumber than children... oof

[opal gull]

I remember when I was around 14, I was about to fall for that Spin Wheel "You have won a PS4"

I didnt have a card at that time, so I went to my cousins house and he said it was a scam. I didnt believe him, I thought he was just jealous.

[ashen perch]

Oh nah

I meant roleplay as you when they do get the account

There's been some real silly screenshots I have seen on Twitter

[opal gull]

yeah lmao

[ashen perch]

Of these scammers trying their absolutely best to speak like your dead friend

Its funny

[blazing depot]

I remember an a girl from high school kept DMing me for some crypto scam, pretty sure she got hacked.

No girl wants to slide in my DMs unless it’s a scam

[mighty quail]

.....do they train an AI on it, maybe? ...though I suppose that's too easy to trip nowadays

[ashen perch]

Maybe, there's that egirl scam too, which is just completely ai based

[thick mango]

its so they can one day slip in their sus link or whatever

[royal orchid]

https://fixupx.com/i/status/2045155610006606269

yahiamice. (@Yahiamice)

🚨 NEW DISCORD HACK/PHISHING METHOD 🚨
︀︀
︀︀hackers are getting a little too advanced at this... someone who took over a friend's account seems to have taken note of how much i play Minecraft and made a rogue modpack with a credentials stealer in it
︀︀
︀︀BE WARY!!!

**💬 313 🔁 7.4K ❤️ 43.0K 👁️ 2.34M **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Apr 17, 2026, 3:01 PM

shit is targeted

[ashen perch]

*so I have heard

[thick mango]

[ashen perch]

I haven't fallen for these scams, just to be clear 😭

[royal orchid]

also yaha mouse

[blazing depot]

I know it’s a scam cuz no ladies want me

[ashen perch]

Fr

[opal gull]

Also there is the scam where they make you invest money, they will be like I wont ask for access or anything at all. Its just a broker website where you can put money and they invest for you. But then the broker website is a fake shady website that they built themselves. So a lot of people get a fake sense of security. You send real money and they show that money on the fake website and start increasing it so it looks like you getting a profit. But its all fake.

[mighty quail]

that shit specifically. makes me wonder just a little bit

[ashen perch]

I know Jenna isnt really seeking me out

So I ignore her

[opal gull]

I got this some time ago

[mighty quail]

SMS: but would you like this job that definitely isn't a pyramid scheme?

[ashen perch]

I feel bad for the ones that actually believe Jenna though

Shes not even real

[mighty quail]

LOL

[royal orchid]

I'm in, time to scam people.
The fuck is a one piece?

[opal gull]

[dense haven]

I know some people who love wasting time of scammers with those kind of stupid chat

some people have a lot of patience

[royal orchid]

I haven't gotten a good scam call in ages

[dense haven]

just keep going for half an hour

[royal orchid]

💔

[opal gull]

I pick up calls and just talk to them, they be like oh I have a new plan for you and stuff.

[mighty quail]

happens to be, I was in another server where someone got hacked and sent an invite to another server. not 100% sure but it might've actually been legit, and like... one of those servers that tries to blackmail people with um. certain content.

[opal gull]

theres this guy called Kitboga, he does this shit a lot

[urban lodge]

Who even calls people in 2026

[mighty quail]

if you've heard those stories btw, god some people are depraved

[royal orchid]

iphone users don't fucking get notifications on their cellular device

[mighty quail]

family. so I don't pick up the phone unless you're in my contacts. lol

[royal orchid]

either I call or they never see it

[urban lodge]

I always assume 100% of the calls I get are scams

[opal gull]

just have 2FA

you should be safe

[clever quail]

Some ways that can be skipped now.

[royal orchid]

if it's not on my contacts it's a scam

[opal gull]

yeah

and then there are some calls, when you pick up. They hang up

[lofty fern]

teenagers

[blazing depot]

This is how Luffy recruits for his crew

wtf do you mean you have a family here JOIN MY CREW MAN

[opal gull]

thats unfortunate

[blazing depot]

I went a car dealership a few days ago and the day after the dealer kept trying to sell me a Honda Civic over the phone after I picked a Toyota

At another dealer

[mighty quail]

well more than just skipped. it's notoriously easy to do it for those who have the know-how. thankfully the scammers don't do it thaaaat much, but...

[clever quail]

And there are 0 day 0 click exploits but that's state actors who will almost never target normies

[blazing depot]

Like I told the guy I signed the paperwork for the Toyota and he said “that’s no issue I’m gonna sweeten the deal for you” like son

[mighty quail]

"there is no deal, but the one piece is real"

should've told him that

[blazing depot]

Also I should mention when I went to the Toyota dealership he kept calling me saying shit like “I hope your test drive there goes BADLY”

What an experience

[lofty fern]

Who do we think is going to take Loki's spot? I'm assuming Garling got promoted to Elder so that left a spot open for Loki to be offered an HK position. That spot is still open so who gets to be a new HK?

[blazing depot]

Charlos

[ashen perch]

New character, one of the God's Blades

[lofty fern]

I've seen some suggest Lucci

[keen falcon]

Or they just can't get it filled

[thick mango]

i could see lucci

[ashen perch]

There could be more than just one spot open after Elbaf too, but same thing there

[lofty fern]

Nah, we need all 13...12 is just blah

[keen falcon]

I hope they don't put Lucci in again

[ashen perch]

I think it'll just be filled by the God's Blades

[keen falcon]

He's had his time

[urban lodge]

Imu's current servant

[lofty fern]

The problem with Lucci is that he's a commoner

[keen falcon]

That's Gunko

[thick mango]

i think lucci gets another thing. The stussy thing is unresolved

[ashen perch]

They exist for this purpose, trained to be HKs eventually

[lofty fern]

Harald and Loki only got a chance because they needed them for the Elbaph plot

[urban lodge]

We saw them a couple chapters ago so it's a different one now

[lofty fern]

Yeah but we don't know any more

[keen falcon]

What chapter again?

[lofty fern]

Other than Shanks, who I guess is still a blade

[ashen perch]

They'll be introduced I'm sure

[urban lodge]

Lemme find it

[native cloud]

Sup guys

[lofty fern]

That would be WILD. Shanks takes the spot

[prisma idol]

I need oda to answer these questions about the Nun and HKs if not in story in the sbs... but he doesnt pick those questions

[keen falcon]

He lost the mark on his arm

[ashen perch]

Oda's very good at inventing characters, I'm sure he has new knights in mind already

[prisma idol]

MAFFEY WILL RETURN

[native cloud]

What are you guys talking about here 🙏🏽

[grand flower]

Not a black one tho

[ashen perch]

I don't think its going to be any existing character

[lofty fern]

We don't know if that actually erases the contract since that seems to be more of a soul thing

[ashen perch]

Ofc

[lofty fern]

😑

[keen falcon]

I don't know why else he'd lose his arm

[lofty fern]

I mean that wasn't planned when all this was put together so it's hard to reconcile the two

[keen falcon]

We don't know that

[lofty fern]

I'm pretty sure we do. Oda didn't even want Shanks to lose his arm

[prisma idol]

Notice how Garling and Sommers are here alongside Maffey. This tells me maffey will play as important of a role as these two have so far, or somewhere between, considering Garling's role is already really important compared to the other two.

Ch 1166

[keen falcon]

We do know he was far stronger than losing his arm to a sea king not on purpose

[lofty fern]

I'm sure we'll see Old Maffey again

Or her kids

[thick mango]

i do think some gods knights of god valley should be dead by now but yeah i guess putting maffey in this key shot makes it likely that maffey is still alive and active

[native cloud]

These twats! Bruh I hate this panel lol

[wooden sigil]

THE GOAT

[urban lodge]

End of 1178

[keen falcon]

At least 2 of the ones from god valley have to be out of commission

[lofty fern]

Also, even Shanks wouldn't know for sure if his contract is actually gone until he actually comes in Imu's presence, which he has avoided forever.

[wooden sigil]

@urban lodge witness the strongest pirate ever

[lofty fern]

I can see how one would fear that

[wooden sigil]

You fool

[urban lodge]

😭

[keen falcon]

Ah so zoomed out I didn't really notice them

[native cloud]

You still think Shanks has it?

[urban lodge]

Canonically weaker than the squirrel btw

[prisma idol]

You pinging penny about rocks death is funny because if anything that page would make penny happy

[lofty fern]

Oh yeah, he has more than one attendant

[wooden sigil]

If by" canonically " you mean "completely stupid" then yes

[keen falcon]

Could be one of the three active god knights we haven't seen

[lofty fern]

I think it would be too good not to. Shanks is the ONLY blade left that's important. He had to bring up that a Blade has to obey in Imu's presence for a reason

If not applying to Shanks than why bother having that be a factor at all?

[prisma idol]

I would say the knights who were in the GV knights page will most likely all return in some fashion

[keen falcon]

Imagine if it was Buggy lol

[native cloud]

I see..

[urban lodge]

Hey, argue with Oda. Harald, who was Rocks' equal, needed the Imu buff to think he was strong enough to beat the squirrel

[prisma idol]

All of these will return, which means however Shoujo Prince and gas mask are dead

[urban lodge]

Damn you Oda

[native cloud]

The interaction between Shanks and Stabs, how do you think it’ll be? And please don’t say hostile cause I doubt that
@lofty fern

[urban lodge]

Shoujo Prince deserved better

[lofty fern]

I think some have to have retired by now. We've had too many additions since then

[thick mango]

idk about the beast lookin guy but the gunner and the sword woman are probably are still alive

skull guy also unclear

[prisma idol]

Rip

[lofty fern]

Killy joined, Gunko became a knight, Shamrock became a knight, Harald became a knight. That's 4 spots right there. 3 if you want to think that Gunko already had a spot

[thick mango]

or is that actaulyl a lance

its a weird sword

[prisma idol]

How many does the knights have?

[prisma idol]

I believe its a glaive

[ashen perch]

They're fine

[lofty fern]

13-5 so 8

[urban lodge]

Gunko already counted probably because although she was a blade of god in rank she already had a higher contract

[ashen perch]

The Gorosei aren't going to be part of the 13

[thick mango]

there are also 8 in dragon's thoughts on it that create a silhouetted group

[lofty fern]

So 3 spots got taken

[keen falcon]

7 cause 1 vacancy

[lofty fern]

at least

[ashen perch]

There will be 13 Knights.

[native cloud]

Why not?

[lofty fern]

Well, I mean that harald had to have taken someone's spot and then after he died there was a vacancy

[keen falcon]

They definitely are, that's where the regen and stuff is from

[native cloud]

They are also knights right there?

[ashen perch]

Because we know of over 8 HKs already and there's absolutely no reason for any of them to have been killed or retired or naturally died

[upper rose]

i think maffey might have died somehow around the time that xebec was killed

god valley ended with a massive lightning bolt, much like the bolt that slew harald

[lofty fern]

Because Arsal says so

[native cloud]

Lol

[keen falcon]

And Garling showed the hk to elder pipeline

[ashen perch]

Their system will be different

[native cloud]

Come on man

[prisma idol]

8 were shown in GV including the gas mask and shoujo prince.

If those two died, Shamrock, Killingham and Gunko can come in. As Garling moves up

[upper rose]

correlation not causation sure, but it was definitely a choice to show the bolt

[thick mango]

god valley was like 39 years ago they absoljutely coulda retired or died

look at sommers they do get older

[prisma idol]

Why?

[lofty fern]

We know spots open up, so someone has to leave or be removed, it's just normal

[ashen perch]

Sommers is barely even 60

[keen falcon]

Yeah flashback characters are not immune

[urban lodge]

The only one I'd say is guaranteed to still be around is Maffey

[ashen perch]

He's not old lol

[urban lodge]

Because Oda put her alongside Sommers and Garling

[ashen perch]

They were all very young in GV

[prisma idol]

PLEASE ODAAAA

[hot cairn]

I kinda hope all the present holy knights are new

[thick mango]

also this. i could see maybe 9 if 8 is two guys but its 9 max

we dont how old skull mask guy or beast looking guy are they could be old

[lofty fern]

Gunko might have already had a spot. So you lose 3 to get Sham, Killy, and Harald in there

[ashen perch]

Okay so that already contradicts the idea that the Gorosei are part of it

[thick mango]

it would be natural to assume a distribution of ages rather than them all being young

[ashen perch]

Why stop at 9?

[prisma idol]

Skull Mask or Yeti

[native cloud]

Sommers dying this arc would ruin a lot for me. Mfs is evil funny

[prisma idol]

I feel like the manmayer girl could have retired too

[thick mango]

while silhouettes dont mean much the number of instances of a thing is one of the few things we maybe can take from silhouettes

[ashen perch]

You're already seeing the 9 silhouettes contradict the Gorosei idea, and those are only in view, 4 more could be hidden

[lofty fern]

What do numbers matter to you Arsal. Make them 50, 100, 20,000 knights if you want lol

[trim lily]

i hope skull mask is like 90 years old and in a wheelchair now

[prisma idol]

Still wearing that mask

[native cloud]

How did Kaido miss out on this guy??

[ashen rose]

500 holy knights

[urban lodge]

I'll be so sad if we never get any more of Yeti

[native cloud]

They would’ve been best of friends

Lol

[lofty fern]

Oda probably retired a few and we might even have a new roster of young 20 somethings other than Sommers

[prisma idol]

Also ive come to the conclusion that Shoujo prince... is dead and gone

[keen falcon]

I think that's 8 silhouettes

[trim lily]

he’s showing up soon don’t worry

[ashen perch]

That's clearly 9

[thick mango]

i think 8 is garling it looks just like him in this stancew

[trim lily]

i can’t say the same for the mask knight that everyone has forgotten

[prisma idol]

I feel like it will be a mix of new and old over just completely 100% new

[upper rose]

massive bolt hits elbaph when loki kills harald

massive bolt hits god valley offscreen, and despite all her prior relevance maffey has yet to be seen since

correlation not causation but oda at least made the conscious choice to draw lightning striking god valley and harald's body both; the knights' weaknesses are shown to be their metal hearts which implies abilities suited to affecting metal such as lightning could at the least affect them; loki, whose story revolves around the hk, is a user of lightning and his lightning breath was like, the one attack imu bothered to make a shield against instead of clashing or dodging. so lightning important, basically

[prisma idol]

Yeah but like.... why maffey?

[upper rose]

she was the most relevant hk

[hot cairn]

mistranslation over there

[upper rose]

besides fartling and wommers

[lofty fern]

Guys, we already know that Oda changes the images of vague silhouettes all the time. 8 or 9 doesn't really matter. Or do we not remember the treasure chest debacle?

[hot cairn]

LOL I remember that

[trim lily]

oda got a little silly with it

[prisma idol]

I just want tall horn lady who shoots beam to return

[trim lily]

i need to know what her power is

[prisma idol]

She's cool, and she could have the godzilla fruit

[trim lily]

it can’t be anything but godzilla

[prisma idol]

If oda was brave enough....

[hot cairn]

I want a clean slate

all the holy knights should be new characters

[ashen perch]

Lets count again:
Before Garling became an Elder, there were 5 confirmed Active HKs already: Garling, Shamrock, Gunko, Sommers and Qilingham

During GV, there were 5 more present as well:
Maffey, YetiGuy, Cow Mask, Goth and the Other Manmeyer

Thats 10 confirmed HKs already, its just very unlikely that those 5 died or retired during the last 38 years lol as they all appeared to be very young, so 10+ HKs it is.

[upper rose]

i like maffey but i'm kinda not expecting much from frauda

[hot cairn]

Oda loves to introduce new characters

[trim lily]

you forgot shoujo prince

[ashen perch]

I think you guys are being silly about this

[ashen perch]

God's Blade

[prisma idol]

Shoujo Prince wasnt confirmed to be a HK

[trim lily]

an intern

[ashen perch]

He'll be back as HK

[prisma idol]

The eternal intern

[ashen perch]

Nahh

[trim lily]

it’s a bit of a shame all those knights in the past are gonna be old now

[ashen perch]

It's very simple to me, Oda intended to introduce the HKs through all the designs he has shown. He's not going to make up new ones, that's silly

[lofty fern]

You putting alot on your own idea of "unlikely". Oda could change them up for whatever reason he wants. We already know for sure that spots open up since Harald was given one, and he could have it automatically because you have to wait for such a spot. So yeah, some from the GV days are definitely gone

[ashen perch]

None of them will be old.

[thick mango]

like hes hunched over like that

[prisma idol]

Hmmmmmmmm
Ch1167

[ashen perch]

They'll be middle aged, like the admirals!

[keen falcon]

It's stated that only those with the marks can travel through the abyss markers like the five elders used to teleport to egghead

[hot cairn]

wait, how many holy knights and god’s blade do you guys think there are?

[trim lily]

they’re like 60 something

[prisma idol]

There can be infinite God's blades

[keen falcon]

7 holy knights, any amount of god blades

[prisma idol]

Hks I think 8

[keen falcon]

Room for 1 more hk

Because the 5 elders have marks

[lofty fern]

It literally says that the Depths and Abyss together are limited to only 13 people. I don't know how much more you want

[ashen perch]

I know, I'm saying the Gorosei will transcend the regular covenant system

[keen falcon]

I don't see any reason to believe that right now beyond assuming everyone at god valley is still an active knight

[thick mango]

yeah my read of that statement is x + y = 13, not x = 13, y = 13

[prisma idol]

Oda should clarify More and just show us all the God's knights now

I SEE IT NOW

[keen falcon]

When there's much other things to suggest they are using the covenant

[ashen perch]

They are using a covenant, I didn't deny that...

[prisma idol]

THE END OF THE ARC ENDS WITH IMU SITTING ON THE EMPTY THRONE, THE GOROSEI BOWING AND THE CURRENT HKS DOING SO AS WELL

Please oda

[ashen perch]

Just not one of the 13

[thick mango]

are you saying theres a 4th unnamed covenant?

[keen falcon]

Seems really weird for them to go "yeah, only 13 people can access these 2 higher level covenants, except there's a random 4th one btw so we can add in more"

[lofty fern]

We also know that both Shanks and Harald couldn't become knights at the same time, there's a limited number of openings and there ARE openings. Which means some HKs were gotten rid of

[keen falcon]

I find it more plausible that the 3rd level is what stops aging and the 2nd level is everything else

So Gunko and the five elders have that

[urban lodge]

Wait I have a new idea, if Burn Scar isn't Bluejam, what if it's Shoujo Prince? And we get a really sad flashback about how he was rejected into the holy knights and Imu burned him but he survived

[ashen perch]

Is it? The Gorosei are on a different level to them with a greater set of abilities, if there were only 5 like that then it wouldn't explain Gunko.

Gunko is on a Gorosei tier deal

[keen falcon]

Gunko definitely is

She's been Imu's right hand woman for like 60 years probably

Attending directly in his room

[thick mango]

do we know specifically waht covenant gods knights have

is it stated

[ashen perch]

And that contradicts the idea that there are 5 abyssal covenants then

[prisma idol]

I also believe Gunko is likely on the abyssal covenant

[keen falcon]

I didn't say there were only 5 abyssal

[lofty fern]

It was never stated that there can only be 5 with the abyssal covenant. Just that only 13 can be in the depths and abyssal.

[keen falcon]

Just that there's 13 between depth/abyssal

[hot cairn]

the same that Harald had, he was a Holy Knight

[lofty fern]

Exactly

[ashen perch]

So there are 7 knights then?

[keen falcon]

Yeah

And 2 are out of commission for some reason since god valley

[ashen perch]

When we saw there are 8 in GV...

[keen falcon]

Likely dying because they're holy knights

[thick mango]

nah i think hes just a blade not a knight right? if im reading that panel correctly

[keen falcon]

Harald was a blade at the start but then got promoted I think

[thick mango]

#also-manga message

[ashen perch]

There were 8 HKs in GV, 5 Gorosei and Gunko already on a Gorosei tier deal

[urban lodge]

He got promoted shortly before he died

[prisma idol]

Do we still believe the zodiac theories for the Gorosei and Hks?

[ashen perch]

How do you explain that

[keen falcon]

Once he got promoted that's why he lost himself at elbaf

[hot cairn]

after that he upgraded to holy knight before he died. That’s when he met Imu.

[thick mango]

yeah idk the simplest read to me is gorosei > knights > blades then

[keen falcon]

Two of Maffey or the unnamed are no longer holy knights for some unknown reason

[ashen perch]

You'd have to kill off 4 lol

Not 2

[hot cairn]

@thick mango

[thick mango]

why do harald and gunko get longevity but sommers doesnt

[prisma idol]

Gunko does because she likely has the tier 3 Imu sub

[urban lodge]

Harald didn't

[ashen perch]

Its really a lot simpler to assume that the number 13 isn't actually a fixed number tbh

[hot cairn]

Harald didnt

[lofty fern]

7 knights, 1 Gunko, 5 elders

[urban lodge]

By immortality they mean regeneration

[hot cairn]

yeah

what penny said

[thick mango]

oh

[lofty fern]

One of the people we thought was a knight might have been a blade

[ashen perch]

The supreme commander that was missing

[lofty fern]

What supreme commander?

[ashen perch]

Wdym what 😭

Garling was just a knight

[lofty fern]

and?

[prisma idol]

Undying in the sense of the regen

[ashen perch]

They always have a supreme commander?

[wraith mantle]

Magnola

[keen falcon]

There were not 8 HKs in GV, and we don't know that they had a supreme commander at the time

[thick mango]

it could be that maffey or unnamed were supreme commander. Though theyre not really acting like it

[lofty fern]

They don't have to. That could have been a rank created later. Military does that all the time

[prisma idol]

I need to know what Omen does

Like for the Knights

[prisma idol]

Nahh, Maffey would have been stated, she got her title box

[hot cairn]

I hope we find out next chapter

[ashen perch]

I don't know why they wouldn't have a supreme commander really lol

[thick mango]

most things that big have a leader

[keen falcon]

Killingham was not at god valley and shamrock was a baby and Gunko was a devoted blade at the time leaving exactly 7 during God Valley we were aware of

[ashen perch]

its what makes sense, ofc they do have a leader

[keen falcon]

However any one of the unnamed four could've been a supreme commander, my bet is the goatskull guy

If they had to have a SC at the time

[ashen perch]

Garling was acting as the leader though

In absence of the real one

[keen falcon]

Wait was that stated

[ashen perch]

Nah but he's giving out orders on his own

[thick mango]

theres only 7 guys here cant the 8th be leader? The other people can be blades of god

[wraith mantle]

Heart pirate queen

[thick mango]

the leader can just be unnamed dead guy who wasnt there for whatever reason

[wraith mantle]

I command you to vote for Bonney

[lofty fern]

Do you know how long it took the US military to create the position of 5 star general? Knowing Garling he might have even made it up because he wanted to be important.
I'm not simply the commander, I'm the SUPREME commander!

[keen falcon]

Gunko has the covenant by then though