also-manga

[hot cairn]

in one of the only istances of his appearance

[trim lily]

oh right his new job is training recruits

[deep chasm]

Thats not the difference. You can tell because you havent even mentioned this once either. Even if g5 was not able to do those things, you'd defend it. And at this point I dont feel like debating things that ultimately isnt actually why you believe what you believe

[hot cairn]

he now just trains the new gen

[hot cairn]

yep

[muted hedge]

hearing Kong mentioned just makes me sigh

[knotty pilot]

it was a funny moment dw. his comeback will be goated for sure

[hot cairn]

lmaoo

[thin quest]

No because it's in outer space

[trim lily]

it really is a mystery what actual role kong serves in the government

akainu goes right to the gorosei anyway so does he even have one now

[hot cairn]

it was already confirmed he isnt tho

[red lagoon]

So ur saying something I just said isn’t what I believe like what?😭😭

[hot cairn]

fr fr, you can see the vision

[graceful grove]

i'm trying to manifest it

[red lagoon]

And g5 can do all those things so u saying if it couldn’t means nothing

[muted hedge]

isn't he commander-in-chief or whatever

[trim lily]

yeah but what does that actually mean

[hot cairn]

cooook

[trim lily]

fleet admiral heads the navy, the gorosei heads the WG

[deep chasm]

That is not what I said. I think for some reason today you're not trying very hard to understand things, so I'll leave that alone

[muted hedge]

uh... retired fleet admiral with authority

[ashen perch]

Well thats just how it has always been, it was the same with Gear 4. Luffy would always make his way up to Gear 4th back then even when he didnt immediately use it, and we all knew that the fight would not end without it because its clearly like a hundred times more powerful than the others. He did that against Kizaru too, he started with his base against Gaban, and he does use his other gears against the Gorosei too. He didnt need it against Loki just yet and so he has only used Gear 3 and 4 against him so far.

None of this makes the previous gears irrelevant per se, it just means one is clearly a lot more useful. Even then, Oda's clearly thinking about how to better utilize Gear 4 more often and thats why he has shown an easier to access Gear 4 for him too, the Mini Gear 4 that operates just like Gear 3. One that he can use in his base.

[thin quest]

I really started to think Lodestar was one of the moons during Harald's flashback when he mentioned the Polestar

[trim lily]

i assumed kong would be an intermediary but the fleet admiral and gorosei directly talk anyway

[sturdy steeple]

But that's the point I'm making. What would make Luffy use other gears OVER the superior one? Usually it's the time limit or any kind of negative consequences. We had this with G4. And unlike G5 we've never seen him leave G4 on his own BEFORE he fully honed it.
So getting back to the point, what exactly is the problem if a form becomes less RELEVANT because another one takes its place? I don't really see any reason to use them all the time. And despite our opinions here, Luffy still uses all of them.

[muted hedge]

i thought that Kong would be in God Valley lol

[trim lily]

i mean considering you can reach it by log pose i dont think its in space lol

[muted hedge]

but nope, he just sent Garp

[sturdy steeple]

Like he punched the shit out of the snake and then just left the form like nothing happened.

[hot cairn]

I dont understand his position either, one would think Akainu goes to him and then Kong goes to the elders but we see Akainu just there talking to the elders as well

[thin quest]

who is to say a log pose won't lock onto one of the moons?

[atomic spindle]

Yall be forgetting about my blud Kong

[latent hamlet]

The funny thing is
Gear 2 was literally just "my current stats arent enough I need to roid myself at the cost of lifespan"

[red lagoon]

U just said that’s not why I belive what I believe?? Why u pretending like ur not taking like u now how I feel

[trim lily]

because it doesnt work as a guide then

[latent hamlet]

And now u have g5

[ashen perch]

Kong is going to lead the forces of the WG in the final war, that is his role.

[hot cairn]

maybe he commands the regular folk that are not HK's or Gorosei

[red lagoon]

Like ur telling me u know why i feel what i feel more than i do?

[sturdy steeple]

Kong is going to die from old age. That is his role.

[red lagoon]

Make ts make sense

[trim lily]

law explicitly states that some islands are closer to lodestar (with him choosing a closest one), that doesnt work if its vertical

[thin quest]

how so? we know Laugh Tale can't be reached via log pose

[grand flower]

In addition to things like Luffy attacking Mercury with Gear Third, it’s pretty clear Oda still has plans for the other Gears since he’s bothering to give them developments like Mini-G4

[sturdy steeple]

I wonder how old Kong is tbh

[prisma idol]

good boss imu

[thin quest]

explain the sky island then?

[deep chasm]

"make his way up to gear 4th..even when he didn't immediately use it".
I want you to first notice how this is half of my point. Luffy is immediately using g5.

Luffy for multiple arcs does not use g4. When he starts using g4, he uses it sparingly, as a last resort. So the other forms got to shine for extended periods of time. When we finally get to wano is when he first starts spamming it more often than necessary. I hope you are able to see the difference I am pointing out.

[ashen perch]

They will be following his command, his strategy will be the one they follow. Same role as Sengoku in Marineford essentially, but I imagine Kong will do more fighting

[next prism]

Apoo is a dipshit, but a kind of love to hate this asshole kind of guy. The way you feel about Apoo is how I feel about Caribou. Man that asshole is just beyond disgusting

[trim lily]

...what about them?

theyre unrelated to the log pose they dont have magnetic fields

at least not that i remember

[thin quest]

then why did the log pose just randomly point up?

[latent hamlet]

The plan: I dont feel like using g5 yet but its a pain to do the rest

[red lagoon]

“That’s not why u believe what u believe” like sorry didn’t know u was me

[latent hamlet]

Also ngl why use g3 if mini g4 no drawback is a thing

Its literally just BEEG

[red lagoon]

I fucking hate that nigga

[latent hamlet]

And g2 is just "i need a stat boost real quick"

[thin quest]

when you reach Lodestar presumably the Log Pose won't lock onto another island

[latent hamlet]

But if g2 isnt enough at that point just full send into g5

[muted hedge]

hell yeah Caribou sucks

[graceful grove]

Apoo is a great character. you need assholes like that in a story

[red lagoon]

Like yes sometimes ina show a character gets stronger than old techniques become less used and obsolete that’s just how shit works

[next prism]

I think you're right, when the log pose "settles" in Jaya, I think it's pointing at the rest of Jaya that got knocked into the rest of Skypeia

[hot cairn]

!g2

[tropic nova]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/833428729266438194/861888283901165578/image0-4__01.jpg

[deep chasm]

What would make luffy use g2/g3 instead of the superior one that is g4 keeper?

Another intentional misinterpretation of the point. G4 being used less often, and becoming less relevant is fine, but it has crossed a threshold of irrelevancy I consider too far.

I think they are irrelevant now, thats the issue. You all keep going out of your way to switch the words I say, as if Im making an extreme point. Never said use them all the time, never said he should never use g5, etc

[deep chasm]

what are the plans for the other gears

[latent hamlet]

Sometimes when u got powers and abilities

The reasoning is just
"Honestly I like my new stuff better"

[deep chasm]

So you've made it clear you dont understand what Im saying so I think we should just leave it at that

[latent hamlet]

"Your old ones work just fine tho"
"Yea but new stuff is cool"

[dark nymph]

Luffy needs to pump his blood and glow pink with G5

[brittle basin]

fake news, Juba is a hack

[red lagoon]

You said I’d defend g5 even if it wasn’t able to do those things u said that’s not why I belive what I believe

[deep chasm]

You said you dont understand what Im saying, so leave it at that

[graceful grove]

luffy has to use G5 because they need to move as many G5 products as possible before we get final Gear.

[red lagoon]

Why u tryna act like u know what i belive and what id do more than i do

[atomic spindle]

Juba has a point

[red lagoon]

Make ts make sense

[hot cairn]

I wonder if he'll come back

[deep chasm]

Ive tried to make my points make sense for you, you still didnt understand them. Its just not gonna work broski

[graceful grove]

he will be in final war. he won't miss a chance like that i feel

[red lagoon]

Or maybe your points are just stupid..

[deep chasm]

Yea maybe man

[deep chasm]

call me a larper but is this real or did you edit this

at least the one on the right

[dense rapids]

No?

[hot cairn]

him and bege are characters that I dont know if Oda will circle back to. Maybe we saw them for the last time ever during WCI and Wano lol, imagine that. Well besides some small panels here and there during EOS.

[deep chasm]

no as in which way

[sturdy steeple]

You just either purposefully misread what I said or read half of it. G2 and G3 were used in combination because G4 had more severe consequences of Luffy not being able to use haki PLUS (LIKE I MENTIONED IN A MESSAGE) he couldn't leave G4 freely until Onigashima. And he can do that with G5 if he doesn't push himself to the limit.
SO DOES THAT MEAN
They're irrelevant
Because Luffy can do that shit easily? Do you not think so?????

[deep chasm]

cool

[knotty pilot]

the first one is edited i think

[grand flower]

Wait and see because it happening with G4 gives reason to think it may happen with the others

[urban lodge]

The Kuzan one is real but it's 10000% a coincidence

[ashen perch]

Laww I literally cited multiple examples of him doing the same, he made his way upto Gear 5 against Kizaru (his only real fight since Kaido). He went from fighting in base to Gear 5 against Gaban. He used only Gear 3rd against Warcury, Ju Peter, against Iscat, against Loki (Gear 4th too). This is not immediate at all.

Even just in Dressrosa, he almost immediately jumps back into Gear 4th once he recovers his Haki because thats whats winning for him. Luffy doesnt fight in Zou so lets look at WCI. He uses it immediately against a threat like Big Mom in WCI, he uses it after some initial fighting against Cracker and then uses Tankman again once he runs out of the first Gear 4th offscreen. He does fight Kata in base more, but then uses it multiple times after that first Gear 4th that he fails at making good use of. He uses it immediately after one Elephant Gun on Kaido in Wano. He uses it immediately on the Number. More instances that I am probably forgetting.

[muted hedge]

what the hell even happened with Bege he was abducted

[dark nymph]

HOLY SHIT ITS IMU

[graceful grove]

Bege is gone but apoo is still a pirate thats looking for any opportunity he can jump on. final war will have a lot of that.

[dark nymph]

[hot cairn]

no that was pre time skip, last time we saw bege was during his cover story

[muted hedge]

so we still don't know what that was

the giant fucking floating magnet thing

grabbing ships

[deep chasm]

So g5 clearly has a drawback too. Yes he can leave if he doesnt use it too long. yet hes been hit by said drawback plenty of times already. And again, Ive already told you my point is an out of story point. If oda realizes he has overshadowed these other forms a lot, do you think he is incapable of writing in such a way where they get some shine still?

Theyre irrelevant because luffy doesnt use them in very significant ways anymore

[ashen perch]

it doesnt really matter tbh, just funny new world shenanigans

[deep chasm]

🤦‍♂️

[muted hedge]

i want to know

[hot cairn]

I dont think that it matters, it'll be one of those things left unexplained in the story

[grand flower]

What exactly is your problem? Why would you assume Oda is done developing Gears prior to G5 when you have evidence of the contrary?

[red lagoon]

That’s why I said I think this is all cause of how recent ts is they be forgetting🤦🏾‍♂️

[muted hedge]

watch it be laughtale

[hot cairn]

what do you guys think? @grand flower @ashen perch

[atomic spindle]

I love emerald city man

[grand flower]

I doubt this for any character that’s alive

[deep chasm]

He makes his way up vs kizaru by using g4 for a few minutes. Ive excused that one. He is automatically in base, that is not a real answer. that is not him making his way up. He uses g3 on warcury after being knocked out from exhaustion from using g5 on the gorosei. He uses g4 on loki whos chained up in a one off moment.

He uses g2 and g3 for a much more significant portion of time vs doffy than he uses any gear before going into g5 now. Do you need a page count to understand it?

I also already told you that him finally, after like 7 arcs of having g4, starts to use it less conseratively is not the same as him using g5 less conservatively once he gets it

[atomic spindle]

Any interesting notes from this latest chapter?

[ashen perch]

I was going to say what Shuron said yeah

If they're alive, they're coming back Jesus

[deep chasm]

feel free to explain to arsal or keeper that. They dont exactly think those are ognna keep getting developed either

[grand flower]

They’re not the ones with hang ups over it so I’m not as keen to challenge their thought process on it

[hot cairn]

fair enough

[ashen perch]

Did you not read my message

[hot cairn]

I see

[ashen perch]

I talked about the Mini Gear 4 already lol

[grand flower]

The Vegapunk speech is a prelude

[deep chasm]

Hey maybe go respond to the one where I replied to you

[grand flower]

Oda can’t wait to show old characters again

[opal gull]

I guess we see them for a panel or two here and there

[deep chasm]

you mentioning mini g4 happened isnt the same as you thinking the lower gears will be getting relevant development going forward

[opal gull]

nothing relevant

[ashen perch]

That is Oda clearly trying to come up with ways to utilize Gear 4th in a more easier to access way

That is him thinking of their relevancy

[grand rain]

we need enel back. Oda already wussied out by changing him out with hiyori in the raid

[opal gull]

G4 snakeman is peak

[grand rain]

Obviously this should have been him

[ashen perch]

I didn't just say that it happened

You skimmed past it...

[deep chasm]

Arsal can you respond to our actual discussion

[ashen perch]

Yes I'm getting to it

[deep chasm]

no youre not

youre responding to an irrelevant side chat of me and shuron

[hot cairn]

enel is coming back soon, trust

[grand rain]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-luffy-gear-4-gear-fourth-snakeman-gif-14369010777397003898

[tranquil oracle]

chats getting passive aggressive huh

[hot cairn]

that's true

[grand rain]

I'm just here so I don't get fined

[opal gull]

it does that at times

[sturdy steeple]

But he has been hit with a drawback either where he really needed to use G5 or when he was practically safe afterwards. He's never had a drawback where he could've just died for no reason. And yeah, he does have a drawback like G4 but he can leave out of it. But I think we're through here.
And what do these significant ways entail then? Where would you write them in? I think you would agree that it's almost impossible to write in a reason for using forms that are below the strongest one that doesn't have enough heavy consequences. Rationally, you would just go with the strongest one even in simple situations.
And yes, Oda might not realise it yet. So again, returning to my first message. Aren't those forms less relevant because G5 doesn't present a stronger threat to Luffy when he uses it?
Or do you just want to see them more because they're cool enough? I reckon that's not what you think but it really sounds like that.

And I never said other forms aren't gonna be developed. Luffy grows stronger and so do his forms. But because G5 exists we will see less of them and that's fine.

[deep chasm]

So just because he can leave out of it, doesnt change that its a significant drawback hes had to deal with several times now.

No, keeper, its literally nowhere near impossible. This is why I say the issue is a case of hindsight is 20/20.

I will give you ways, so entertain my question here. Why was it okay that luffy didnt use g5 on the seraphim?

[ornate tartan]

best design in the series, who’s with me

[lofty fern]

very hot

[deep chasm]

Ive answered your question multiple times, no, thats not why theyre irrelevant. Please stop trying to dumb down my point to be about some sort of bias. Just because you dont understand my point yet doesnt mean ive given you any reason to think its a bias

[ornate tartan]

majestic

[dark nymph]

the polka dots will have to grow on me

[deep chasm]

Loki mogs but this is very tuff I will say

[red lagoon]

The colour will make or break them

[red lagoon]

I assume they will just be white tho

[brittle basin]

Could you see the polka dots in the initial reveal two weeks ago?

[deep chasm]

coloring is always the last big thing that can make or break these designs

[red lagoon]

Ye

A lil

[leaden rivet]

Everything but his face

[ashen perch]

He still fights in his base against Gaban, its an instance of him not immediately jumping into G5 for the fight, its still him making his way up, just skipping a couple steps. If we're talking one off moments then nearly every other instance has been a one off moment because Luffy has not been in many real fights since getting Gear 5, its been mostly quickies that he gets through real quick!

Also, no, Pre Gear 4 arcs do not count as arcs where he had it. Introduction and post introduction are the only relevant cases.

[brittle basin]

neat

[red lagoon]

…

[brittle basin]

fantastic drawing

[red lagoon]

Do u want zoro to die fr

[lofty fern]

His face is the best thing

[grand flower]

The Seraphim are impervious to damage and Luffy also knew that there other threats on the island since he watched the same footage as Shaka of Den Den Mushi disappearing. Using G5 on them and burning himself out would have been an obviously bad idea since Luffy knew that wasn’t THE fight

With Lucci, that was seemingly the biggest threat on the island at the time. With the snake on Elbaph, they were gonna go on exploring and Luffy also had energy after so he had a lot more room with those to be a little risky with it

[ocean sigil]

Imu uses a sword, is he a Swordsman? Does that mean Mihawk is stronger than Imu? Where are my Shanks is a Swordsman people?????

[ocean sigil]

Really beautiful

[ashen perch]

Shit I forgot about the Seraphim, he was making his way up against them too

But they got dealt with before Luffy could get to Gear 5

[red lagoon]

Luffy is not kaido who always gonna hold back to enjoy fights

[sturdy steeple]

So like... Am I gonna get a better explanation than that? I told you that the instances where it happened were all justified. And leaving out of it is a MASSIVE boost compared to what we had with G4.
The real valid question would be why didn't Luffy try to use ACoC on them or Gorosei at that matter.
Because Oda said "fuck you", lol. That's a valid criticism but for different reasons. I hate the lunarians gimmick - you know me.

[lofty fern]

Hajrudin's leg is gone 😭

[deep chasm]

Its not making his way up. Whole point is about other gears anyway. Pre gear 4 arcs count because you were aware it meant he chose not to use g4 until then.

I dont care what kinds of fights luffy has been in. The same way you dont complain about luffy not using g5 on the seraphim, you wouldnt have complained if he didnt use g5, or at least took more time to use other forms in other fights

[atomic spindle]

Bruh Imu simping for Lili after the latest aurafarming feels off,blud will go back to that garden with butterflies in the vessel of Lili

[deep chasm]

You'll get a better explanation if you entertain my question I asked

[hot cairn]

dang Imu's design is really cool

[brittle basin]

imu getting distracted by butterflies midfight was still a dumb/funny idea i read this morning

[lofty fern]

Have you been paying attention? Some of the strongest people in the series have been simps

[atomic spindle]

Imu is on another level

[deep chasm]

So there was no issue with him not using g5 on the seraphim?

[latent hamlet]

"Huh. A butterfly"
"PAY ATTENTION"

[lofty fern]

Loki kills a butterfly
Imu: I will have no mercy.

[sturdy steeple]

What kind of bias
What are you even saying man
I'm trying to get to the bottom of your point by giving an actual valid explanation to why it could be off-putting
And what I get is you not adding anything and basically remaining passive-agressive for the entirety of our conversation

[lofty fern]

I need to ask Meek, is Imu now talking in the first person?

[hot cairn]

"I'm always at max effort"👀

[ashen perch]

Why would there be an issue dude? Its the Luffy way to do it usually, he did the same against Kizaru which is an example that I cited myself 😭?

[grand flower]

No there was an issue

Remember that Luffy knew there was another threat beside the seraphim

He watched the monitors with Shaka

[deep chasm]

"or do you just want to see them more because they're cool enough". You have several times tried to ask me if my point is just to do with some sort of preference. ive told you the answer is no.

Why did oda write luffy not using g5 on the seraphim?

[grand flower]

He didn’t jump to G5 because the seraphim weren’t THE fight

[fringe escarp]

Lucci was?

The snake was?

[ashen perch]

Eh, he was figuring out their weakness as well, which was clearly something he thought would take a while

[fringe escarp]

🥀

[grand flower]

Yes, when Luffy fought Lucci, Lucci was the biggest threat on the island

[fringe escarp]

The seraphim were bigger

Like bar none

[latent hamlet]

Ok hear me out
Luffy doesnt like lucci

Thats worth going g5

[grand flower]

The seraphim Luffy wasn’t aware of at the time?

[fringe escarp]

Acoc

[grand flower]

Cmon

[hot cairn]

read again what he said

[deep chasm]

So why doesnt he use g5 earlier

[fringe escarp]

No I mean after

[ashen perch]

The Seraphim were not fighting Luffy

[latent hamlet]

Ok?
Luffy doesnt like him

[fringe escarp]

Seraphim were the biggest threat by that point

[ashen perch]

Because Sentomaru was still awake

[latent hamlet]

Literally everyone
LUFFY DONT FIGHT
LUCCI DONT FIGHT

Luffy and Lucci: IM BEATING THE SHIT OUTTA HIM

[lofty fern]

Zoro: I think he took my other eye out....
And I do think most of the blood is coming from the right side of his face

[fringe escarp]

Ai.

[iron oriole]

Lucci deserved being clowned on so G5 works, but Luffy should have also stayed in base or just used G2 for the extra disrespect

[sturdy steeple]

Oh, okay, I see your point. You're probably trying to say that this is the case where G4 was relevant.
Seraphim is a niche instance where an opponent is straight INVINCIBLE according to Zoro's words. Him using G5 could make him run out of time BEFORE he would defeat them.

[lofty fern]

Ai?

[sturdy steeple]

Is that the point?

[dark nymph]

its kinda hard to understand whats going on ehre

[grand flower]

Lucci simply wasn’t that weak

[sturdy steeple]

"I reckon that's not what you think but it really sounds like that"

[iron oriole]

Lucci simply is that weak

my man Job Lucci

[latent hamlet]

Also im ngl

I dont think luffy really gives a fuck about the seraphim?
I mean who does really

Lucci is actually some1 luffy REALLY wants to punch

Like its on sight

[grand flower]

You keeping on asking this while you refuse to engage with the point that Luffy knew there were threats to deal with aside from the Seraphim is dishonest as hell

You just want to argue

[ashen perch]

Really I wouldn't say there's a later there, its a very short fight and Luffy's still figuring them out as far as we see it onscreen lol

[grand flower]

Even aside from what he saw on the monitors

[lofty fern]

Zoro is on his back, his hand is over holding his left shoulder. His face and upperbody is covered in blood but you can see his eye closed and half of the goggles

[grand flower]

Luffy also was in the mindset of, I have to be able to stop Lucci when we’re done here

Both good reasons for why he didn’t jump to the mode that incapacitates him from combat

[latent hamlet]

Lucci also hurt Atlas
Atlas gave food

Thats grounds for termination

[dark nymph]

ok yeah I see it now

I blame the scans

[deep chasm]

The point is that you all are acting as if every instance of g5 was 100% necessary. And that its near impossible to write these scenarios without luffy using g5. Yet somehow when he doesnt use it on the seraphim, you see no issue.

Luffy also wouldnt KNOW that theyre invincible when he hasnt used his strongest form. The same thing you'd likely argue if he used g5 on them. So ultimately, I right now just want you to be able to understand that just because he uses g5 in situation A or B, doesnt mean its somehow impossible to write him not using it in those instances.

He uses g5 on a holy knight, you can easily write him just using g3 or g4 for that, the story does not take some huge plummet. You can have him use g3/g4 for a longer period of time vs the gorosei to show off those forms. Literally nothing about the story changes. But hindsight is 20/20, so you all are making it seem like oda was trapped in a corner and could only write it this exact way

[latent hamlet]

U know
I get the sense u dont like shonen's formula of power ups

[ripe estuary]

Kinda crazy how this is one of Lucci’s better moments cause his mission was to kill Vegapunk.
When the scene happened I thought he attacked an obviously harmless person just cause

[ashen perch]

Immediate cases are:

Lucci - biggest threat, Luffy deals with him quick, good job!
Saturn - needed to show Bonney Nika, then needed to team up with her version of Nika, makes sense
Snake - doesn't really matter, its quick and he easily got out of Gear 5 without turning into an old man, a sign of him improving.
Gaban - needed to show him Nika
Imu/HKs - monstrous Haki sensed, he needs to deal with them with his best, makes sense

[deep chasm]

and again, you've asked this several times, and Ive said no each time. So at that point, stop asking it

[dark nymph]

night and day difference

[unreal estuary]

Still can’t see shit

[fringe escarp]

Wano: uses base and gear 2+3 instead of gear 4 for 90% of the fight

[stone terrace]

Hes cooked

[ashen perch]

He uses Gear 4th immediately against a fucking number man, its literally the same as the snake thing

[red lagoon]

After one hit against kaido he went instant g4 he used it against the giant person forgo his name

He used it when he came back on Momo instantly

[ashen perch]

Yeah no he uses it immediately multiple times

[grand flower]

Exactly

[deep chasm]

Would you say it would be bad for the story if he used a different gear on the snake than g5?

Please answer directly, I dont wanna hear about "oh well it wasnt bad how it happened" or whatever, just answer

[grand flower]

And the Beast Pirates ship with kid and law

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[grand flower]

Actually, yes

[latent hamlet]

U know
The argument is about story

How about
Oda: I just think its cool

[deep chasm]

You should be the last person to ever accuse someone of dishonesty in a debate

[fringe escarp]

Then immediately drops gear 4 and uses base for 20 chaps

[grand flower]

Every instance of Luffy using G5 Ike against the snake is him exercising his Awakening

[deep chasm]

So now its okay for luffy to not use g5 in short fights? or if hes still figuring out an opponent?

[grand flower]

Every single scene of Luffy exercising G5 substantiates later when he’s used to it

[sturdy steeple]

But there's a logical explanation on why Luffy never used G5 on Seraphim... Shuron and Arsal said it. You're still not explaining why Oda needs to write in other gears more. I just hear you saying that he can. Ok, so what?

[grand flower]

Mmhmm now stop ignoring inconvenient counterargument for the sake of dragging your point

[ashen perch]

I liked it because it looked sick and it was cool that we're seeing Luffy improve. This is the same process he went through with Gear 4th, we could tell that he was getting better when he could slip in and out of it easily.

[grand flower]

You got reasons for why he didn’t use it against the seraphim

Now engage with them instead of asking that question again

[ashen perch]

The answer is yes btw

It would be bad if he didn't

[grand flower]

All three of us have answered you

[deep chasm]

Hindsight is 20/20. If he used g5 on the seraphim, you'd say "oh well he had to use g5 cuz nothing else was working", does that sound about right or not?

[hot cairn]

this is literally why this debate is kinda silly

[ashen perch]

It didn't happen

[hot cairn]

[ashen perch]

That's all that matters.

[latent hamlet]

Yes
The real answer is
Oda: I WANNA

[deep chasm]

why?

[sturdy steeple]

Like, if you want to see more of other gears that means there's a reason to it. Why exactly you want them in the story?

[ashen perch]

I explained it, its a showcase of his improvement

[latent hamlet]

Plus lets be real
U think luffy PLANS out how he does his power ups?

Its literally just all vibes

[deep chasm]

So do you think all of the other instances of him using it does not fulfill that arsal

[sturdy steeple]

I thought that the Seraphim was the example of Luffy having to stay with lesser gears but that wasn't your point

[ashen perch]

The more comfortably he moves in and out, the clearer it appears that he's getting better

[latent hamlet]

We dont get training arc so he's doing the Skyrim method

[ashen perch]

Remember, he turned into an old man immediately after getting out of it against Lucci

[latent hamlet]

Keep doing it until exp builds up

[ashen perch]

That's not happening anymore, that's cool

[grand flower]

It’s also good for the audience. Every scene like that makes it more believable when he eventually gains the endurance to handle his awakening

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[deep chasm]

Arsal, do you think you would notice the lack of this if it never happened

[grand flower]

Laww gon ignore that too though

See

[ashen perch]

Laww

It did happen

And thats all that matters

[deep chasm]

answer my question

[ashen perch]

And its happened twice

[deep chasm]

answer my question

[ashen perch]

He was fine after Gaban too

[sturdy steeple]

Okay, and? Oda could've written it differently, sure. He could've used G5, failed, be saved by somebody, yada-yada. It's possible. I don't necessarily care for that because I'm not saying he cannot use other gears at all. He still actively does so.

[ashen perch]

Laww your line of questioning is terrible

[sturdy steeple]

Answer this please

[deep chasm]

So we wont be able to debate if you're already disingenuous and now won't engage in the question

[lofty fern]

indeed

[deep chasm]

Because its powers luffy has, so they should be showed off

[grand flower]

Hilarious demand

[deep chasm]

And my point is he uses them rarely to the point that they appear irrelevant. You dont have to care, its my point

[red lagoon]

All the gears have been used for 100s of chapters is it the end of the world we’re seeing him use his new gear

[deep chasm]

You have already admitted to being dishonest in debate, I dont think you matter

[sturdy steeple]

Laww, dude, that's a terrible argument for why it has to happen, lol. Genuinely. And I mean no offense here.

[ashen perch]

Laww the problem is that youre discussing a hypothetical and yes, if it didn't happen and Luffy got into the old man form again then yes I wouldn't notice it

What has been proven

[grand flower]

No I haven’t. You very much are though

[deep chasm]

So you can make anything seem like that if you feel like. Why should anything be showed? Whatever you say is terible

[ashen perch]

Explain it to me, what did you prove with the hypothetical

[sturdy steeple]

Like what does that mean? If Sanji was using only Ifrit Jambe from now on would anyone think it's a problem? Not really. It's his stronger form of DJ.

[grand flower]

You love ignoring counterpoints you can’t respond to so you can keep repeating the same refuted argument

[deep chasm]

Id like you to answer my question

[ashen perch]

I did

[grand flower]

Now that we’re done with the ad hominem

[deep chasm]

I love to ignore you because you are dishonest

[grand flower]

Cap

[ashen perch]

Yeah he just becomes an old man again so yeah I wouldn't notice the lack of it, I would think "wow Luffy still sucks at this"

[deep chasm]

So it wouldnt be bad for the story. You would not notice a lack of it. The story would not change for the worse whatsoever because there are a dozen other instances that fulfill this requirement.

[ashen perch]

Instead of "hey my boy is improving!!"

Laww noooo

Noooooo

[buoyant comet]

Are they saying that Luffy is overusing G5 or???

[red lagoon]

Ye

[ashen perch]

It is a positive for the story that Luffy is showing signs of improvement

I have said this and you ignored this

[buoyant comet]

Its his free form he'd always prefer to use it so I don't see the problem with him making it his default

[red lagoon]

We done with the 90s

[ashen perch]

It would change for the worse

[wraith mantle]

imu came here to avenge harald's death?

i think imu might be a good guy

[sturdy steeple]

Because it's not a valid criticism when these powers aren't as good as G5. They don't really have to be used anymore IF NOT for emergency situations (like with Seraphim). They don't HAVE TO is the key here because he still uses them occasionally.

[deep chasm]

Gear 5 is not exactly just the stronger version of those forms. Yes you can argue he should be able to do the things in other forms using g5, but he doesnt very much, and regardless it is not just a better version

[ashen perch]

When a positive ceases to exist, the story gets worse, thats simple enough

[deep chasm]

You can try reading the part where I mention there are other showings of this. He has gone g5 a dozen times. He can show improvement in the other 11 examples

[ashen perch]

Laww, there's only been 3 instances of him slipping in and out of it

[deep chasm]

I dont care if you think they have to or not, the point is for a story, you should still show em off. The same way g2/g3 were still shown off after g4 was introduced

[ashen perch]

The first one establishes that he fucking sucks

[deep chasm]

3 instances is enough for you to understand

[buoyant comet]

How is Gear 5 in any sort of way not stronger than any of his Gears? There's unparalleled strength and durability gained just by using it, like forget about the techniques, Gear 5 alone allowed Luffy to recover instantly from attacks he got knocked down/out from by Kaido

[deep chasm]

bro

[ashen perch]

The other 2 show him improving at this

[deep chasm]

actually

[ashen perch]

Understand what

[deep chasm]

clay can you send some calcs on this

[deep chasm]

that he's improving...

[sturdy steeple]

Like I tried to give your argument more leverage by saying that G5 needs to have more impactful consequences for other forms to be used more often.

[ashen perch]

No????

[buoyant comet]

Werent you complaining about people's attitudes when discussing and now you're doing this?

[ashen perch]

The snake is the first instance of him showing improvement

[sturdy steeple]

But you're just saying "these forms have to be used because it's a part of his skill set"

[deep chasm]

Can you send some calculations on g5 vs g4

[ashen perch]

Lucci - slips in and out, fails, turns into an old man

Snake - slips in and out, no old man

This is like very very basic

I don't know whats clicking

[deep chasm]

Powers that have become defining features of luffys fighting style for the past 1100 chapters I think should stay relevant. You tried to mention Ifrit jambe, I told you the difference

[dark nymph]

Lucci robbed us of g4

He only went g5 because he asked

[deep chasm]

so have him show improvement in one of the many next examples of g5

[iron oriole]

thats anime only

[sturdy steeple]

No? Where does it say so? Is there a manual on how powers should be used in the story? If the other forms were necessary for the victory that would be another case.

[buoyant comet]

I'm pretty sure he didn't on the manga

[dark nymph]

fr?

[iron oriole]

you could argue he went G5 in the manga because he wanted to show the clear difference between them

[iron oriole]

yeah

just like the 1 hit Lucci got

[red lagoon]

Luffy fr just wanted to bully Lucci

[latent hamlet]

Luffy went straight to g5 in manga
Probably just cuz he REALLY wanted to beat lucci

[deep chasm]

No keeper, just like theres not a manual on anything that makes a story good or bad. Do you need a manual to decide if you think something is good or bad in a story?

[lofty fern]

Man, what the heck TCB. All the other scans are so much clearer

[red lagoon]

Omg the first time I seen ts and can acc understand what’s happening

[dark nymph]

yeah this shit had me questioning even reading tcb, since I can read these scans

[hot cairn]

Gear 5 is part of Luffy's fighting style, how does this complaint work?

[fast pagoda]

Im able to make out Zoro now

I thought that was Rodo

In that last panel

[iron oriole]

TCB fell off so hard fr fr

[hot cairn]

I noticed it was him because of the swords

[red lagoon]

I’m so glad it wasn’t me being sped that it was hard to understand what was happening

[dark nymph]

yeah i remember now, my memory was overwritten cause those eps were just so good I watched them a lot

[deep chasm]

by the fact that the point is about him barely using other parts of said fighting style

[red lagoon]

Fax

[formal wagon]

hajrudin deserved this

[red lagoon]

I love rewatching the clips on uojtibe

Yotuueb

[fast pagoda]

People instantly trying to ai upscale scans sucks a lot

How do you fuck up youtube that bad dude

[hot cairn]

but this just sounds like a preference Laww, it's all part of Luffy's arsenal. He uses whatever he wants to use.

[iron oriole]

yeah Toei had to add some filler there since from what we got in the manga, they met > next we saw, Luffy was in G5 so they just made it so Lucci asked to see his form on the bounty

[red lagoon]

Chill💔

[lofty fern]

It's so beautiful.....

[fast pagoda]

Sowwy

[red lagoon]

I had no problem with ai till it started messing with my one piece

[sturdy steeple]

Okay, G4 does kaboom and G5 does MEGA KABOOM. I think only Snake Man is your only argument here because it works in somewhat different way. And he tried using that on Kizaru (the faster character) and failed miserably.
And I'm sorry, I'm not letting you off the hook. He can DO ANYTHING in it. That's a fact. He still does older moves in it. Maybe you just want to see more of G4 visually incorporated into G5? That would be another argument that could work for why you're displeased with it.

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/feels-the-aura-aura-meme-aura-farming-feels-the-aura-meme-gif-8288143849566529885

[red lagoon]

Ts gotten too far

[hot cairn]

deserved what?

[fast pagoda]

I want to redraw this with Sommers and Killingham in the top poses reacting to Imu

[formal wagon]

going like auuhuuhghhhuhhh after imu hit him with magic or something

[deep chasm]

I think its not a prefernece. ive explained my point to arsal and keeper many times now. My point is not about an in story perception of why luffy uses it.

[ashen perch]

Literally an entirely ridiculous line of reasoning here lol, he had him show it in a casual battle because it made sense there for him to casually go from the form, finish the job, and back to base. Just as the battleship in Wano or the number were used to establish that he can slip in and out of Gear 4 now, unlike against Big Mom last arc where he has to be carried by Sanji when he gets out of Gear 4.

[hot cairn]

yes exactly, Luffy can do things he does in g2 or g3 so what's the issue here really?

[red lagoon]

I think this is valid Luffy incorporating g4 moves with a g5 twist would be cool and best of both worlds

[hot cairn]

what do you think of what happened to gerd and stansen

[sturdy steeple]

Well I suppose Laww wants more of g4 specifically

I honestly don't think we were talking about g2/g3

At least I hope so

[ashen perch]

I'm tired

[iron oriole]

we need more G2

best gear

[dark nymph]

uojtibe is crazy bro

[fast pagoda]

It feels like Oda wants to phase out Gear 4 unfortunately

[red lagoon]

Chill on me😭😭💔💔

Autocorrect meant to fix my mistakes

[fast pagoda]

Now that mini gear 4 is a thing

[red lagoon]

I type too fast

[ashen perch]

I think you're free to hold that opinion laww because nothing's actually clicking here

[ashen perch]

That's just a new way to utilize it though

[deep chasm]

So g4 is more than kaboom amd g5 is more than mega kaboom. and I think the comprehension of that is relevant.

Im not letting you off the hook. Sanji goes from hot kick to hotter kick. theres actually no difference besides degree. Please tell me you dont think the only visibile difference between g5 and the other gears is magnitude

[fast pagoda]

I dont know if well ever see Bounceman or Snakeman again

[ashen perch]

That's actually the opposite of phasing them out, and let me explain

[red lagoon]

We deffo will

Luffy hasn’t just abandoned his old gears

So I don’t get the problem

[fast pagoda]

Yeah

[red lagoon]

He still uses them

[fast pagoda]

He just tends to jump straight to Gear 5 now in Elbaph

[formal wagon]

meta wise i feel like oda is just gonna attatch their limbs back/ oda has started going for limbs/ extremities to increase stakes without killing people, but my reaction to it otherwise was blah normal "i hope they're okay" "can gerd still doctoring :( ?"

[hot cairn]

I've been reading the whole debate so I've seen your points, and you cant really split the in story usage from somehow the outside perception of it. You're not really the author of the series.

[deep chasm]

My point acknowledges the authors ability to affect the story

[hot cairn]

so it is just preference

[fast pagoda]

I guess Luffy hasnt been in any situations where he needs it recently

[dark nymph]

They're gonna find some limb-reattaching tech in the Elbaph lab

[red lagoon]

This debate is dead can we go back to meaningful arguments like Mihawk vs shanks PLEASE

Something with some substance

[deep chasm]

No its not. If the author wanted to, he could have luffy like using g5, while still making the usage of g5 more conservative. You would not think anything differently if luffy didnt use g5 on the snake, and didnt use it on scopper for example.

[dark nymph]

so true, Mihawk > Shanks btw

[sturdy steeple]

It's just that it would be fine if, you know, it wasn't just "he has to use these moves because that's the kind of story it is". I'm sure you read plenty of stories where the older moves were replaced by better versions, sometimes strikingly different. And I'm sure you had no problem with that.

[red lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/denzel-training-day-gif-16743259178450786472

[sturdy steeple]

That's not a good reasoning

[low blaze]

Mihawk > imu and imu > shanks, therefore mihawk > shanks

[red lagoon]

Now we speaking my language

[hot cairn]

it really doesnt

[red lagoon]

This is what one piece is all about

[lofty fern]

It is night and day

[iron oriole]

and Tama > Mihawk

[deep chasm]

Theres no manual on anything. Thats how trying to dissect the quality of a story works. You can say literally anything you believe to be a criticism of the story. I can tell you "what manual says thats bad?"

Again, you tried to use ifrit vs diable. I explained how g5 vs other gears is not the same as just "higher degree"

[hot cairn]

I can see Oda finding a way to undo that damage

[deep chasm]

It really does

[next estuary]

Ello chaps

[deep chasm]

Say anything you believe is a criticism. Watch me ask you for the manual which says its bad

[iron oriole]

Stansen's leg is probably staying gone, Gerd can have her fingers reattached though

[next estuary]

Shoutout to Oda for making a biblically accurate angel

[brittle basin]

[sturdy steeple]

What makes Luffy go into gears? I think it's reasonable to say that it's the desire to defeat his opponents. When your newer form surpasses your older ones in efficiency and can also replicate almost anything... I'd say it's fine to dumb it down to kaboom, lol.

[low blaze]

@chatgpt summarize their argument and give their strongest point for each side

[sturdy steeple]

Like yeah, Luffy uses Snakeman against the fastest person on Earth. Where does it take him? G5.

[deep chasm]

And again, my point is not about luffys desire to use gears. My point is regarding oda's ability to determine how many times he uses it. If luffy had used g5 8 times instead of 12, you would see no issue, and yet I could say that other gears were used to a satisfactory extent

[red lagoon]

😭😭😭😭

[bold sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/scary-job-application-kaiwashere-gif-1229406297668886656

[red lagoon]

How do I give ChatGPT access to my discord so it can debate ppl all day for me

[deep chasm]

And even if it didnt necessarily make sense why he needed to use it, you'd defend it

[ashen perch]

I think Oda is looking to establish Luffy's base and his Gear 5 as his two main designs.

In Base, Luffy will be using Gear 2nd, Gear 3rd, Gear 4th (Kong Gun, the Balloon form that looked like Tankman that saved Hajrudin and his crew) all at the same time. He's going to achieve a level of mastery that doesn't require him to actually go into the form anymore, his base will just have all the gears.

The other of course, is Gear 5. Where he just uses... Gear 5 lol

[hot cairn]

sup euge

[dark nymph]

the one where hes flying is actually crazy

[next estuary]

Just read the chapter

https://tenor.com/view/its-peak-old-man-shaking-head-gif-3938163323164042530

[sturdy steeple]

Because I... Wouldn't care? Just like I don't care if Luffy uses G4 despite being able to use a superior form for short periods of time?

[ashen perch]

I'm not sure how another gear will fit in here, but that's upto Oda to figure out, he got this

[dark nymph]

TCB be like he doesn't need a mouth

[hot cairn]

true

[opal gull]

is that topic still ongoing

[iron oriole]

where's Meek to defend TCB this week

[sturdy steeple]

My bad

[low blaze]

Can you summarize i asked chatgpt but he couldnt

[deep chasm]

So thats the point Keeper. You all are making it seem like every instance of g5 usage was necessary for the story. Im explaining how it isnt. And oda could keep all of the positive narrative of luffy using g5 often, while still showing off other gears, and there is literally 0 issue.

[next estuary]

Is ChatGPT a he now

[opal gull]

I am eating rn and i type slow with one hand so i will later

[deep chasm]

if oda has luffy use it 8 times instead of 12, and use the other gears more often, guess what, maybe no one is saying the gears are underutilized, and you wouldnt be complaining about the lack of g5 either

[low blaze]

No worries, nevermind

[sturdy steeple]

Because there's no such thing as necessary. It's whether it's justified or not.

[red lagoon]

Neither—I’m an AI, not a person, so I don’t have a gender.

If it helps, you can just think of me as whatever vibe you prefer 👍

[sturdy steeple]

And in every case it's justified.

So yeah, that's kind of it

[kind vortex]

im half way done with enies lobby and ive seen TONS of spoilers and im so bored of it, where can i start back

[ornate tartan]

i’d rather see luffy not jump to gear 5 immediately, i can see why he does it tho and it fits his character

[red lagoon]

Episode 1

[deep chasm]

And if you understand my point, its not about being able to deduce if every case is justified. Its whether or not the other gears are underutilized

[brittle basin]

i have decided you are a human male.

[deep chasm]

If oda wanted, he could utilize them more, while still maintaining frequent usage of g5

[dark nymph]

feel bad for the 2 people who used em dashes

[deep chasm]

correct or incorrect?

[red lagoon]

😂💔

Oh fuck

Speaking of ChatGPT reminded me I got a report due

[hot cairn]

wdym by start back?

[red lagoon]

That’s tomorows problem I got agendas to push

[ashen perch]

There's actually a lot of people who did smh

[kind vortex]

like what episode should i start from because enies lobby is so bad and boring

[red lagoon]

Bruh

[hot cairn]

damn lmao

[red lagoon]

If u don’t like enies lobby

Then I think

[red lagoon]

There no hope

[hot cairn]

wait, did you start the OP anime with enies lobby? without watching episode one?

[grand flower]

That would weaken the impression of luffy exercising his awakening, which takes away from us seeing him get closer and closer to mastering the strain

[pulsar path]

Ban

[red lagoon]

TELL MEHE DIDNT

[kind vortex]

ive watched until enies lobby

[sturdy steeple]

Yeah, I've read that. And I asked immediately why do you want to see those moves being played out more frequently if not for specific situations. And your reasoning was "because this story needs it" basically

[red lagoon]

phew

[iron oriole]

keep watching

[sturdy steeple]

But it doesn't so yeah

[hot cairn]

then why do you want to rewatch it if you didnt like it?

[red lagoon]

Enies lobby is goated

[sturdy steeple]

We might be done here lol

[opal gull]

read wiki till MF , watch MF then wiki till Wano and then watch from wano onwards

my friend did this and he is as informed on OP as I am

[ashen perch]

I used the em dash but with just a dash before AI a lot, but only because I don't know how to use the em dash on my PC

[urban lodge]

Skip to chapter 1154, that's when one piece finally gets good

[kind vortex]

i meant like where can i skip to

[ashen perch]

You shouldn't

[red lagoon]

U giving out some ass advice gang

[hot cairn]

skip? nah maybe just drop the anime

[deep chasm]

Yes, and your response is about the fact that nothing says its necessary. And I will keep responding back to you, I can say the same thing about any criticism of the story

So thats where me and you are stuck at

[opal gull]

skibidi gang pop yoyo

[red lagoon]

If u wanna skip parts of the show just don’t watch the show

U not forced to watch one piece

[pulsar path]

You can skip to a different anime at that point

[grand flower]

I do that because I learned that as a way to avoid run-on sentences

[red lagoon]

It’s not for everyone

[dark nymph]

before AI, so you stopped smh

[hot cairn]

if you watched til enies lobby and still dont like the show just drop it ngl

[ashen perch]

Nah I still do lol

But I had to tone it down

[grand flower]

Same

I don’t

Fuck that

I ain’t policing myself

[ashen perch]

Fair fair

[kind vortex]

i love the show i just dont like the arc, im getting bored of it

[graceful belfry]

I use those shits still

[red lagoon]

U gotta push through gang

[iron oriole]

this guy is baiting fr

[red lagoon]

What’s the last thing that happens in enies lobby

[iron oriole]

EL is one of the best arcs in the series

[red lagoon]

Fax

Luffy vs Lucci goes so crazy

[kind vortex]

luffy and lucci are fighting i think

[pulsar path]

Kokoro turned them off

[hot cairn]

push through then if you dont like that arc, I dont recommend skipping anything in OP

[ashen perch]

Yeah no I still use it, but its kind of shitty when I use it and someone immediately goes "um AI???"

[red lagoon]

U think that’s boring!!?!

[pulsar path]

Troll

[kind vortex]

no its just being dragged out way to much

[dark nymph]

paragraph with em dashe used? yeah ur cooked buddy

[graceful belfry]

Enies Lobby is a crazy first arc to dislike considering a lot of the goofier arcs with less stakes that come before it

[red lagoon]

Read the manga

Don’t skip

Just read

[hot cairn]

switch to the manga then

[deep chasm]

@sturdy steeple you think an adequate response to me is "well nothing says thats a bad thing". I think sure, thats true, but nothing says any criticism of any story is a bad thing. Unless you can show me a manual for your criticisms of stories, then we're stuck there.

But I will say, Im sorry if Ive seemed passive aggressive towards you. I appreciate you having the conversation. The other few I believe just are disingenuous

[red lagoon]

You’ll get through it faster without missing information

[hot cairn]

the anime is slow as fuck

I dont recomend it

[kind vortex]

ok

[red lagoon]

You can read the manga then watch the fights in the anime

That’s what I did for later arcs

[kind vortex]

where do i read it

[iron oriole]

anime does what anime does

[pulsar path]

Weak but sure

[next estuary]

!mangawhere

[tropic nova]

#wiki message

[red lagoon]

I use weebcentral

[iron oriole]

dont you like seeing the same scene from 275439235 different angles?

[ashen perch]

Yea that

[hot cairn]

tell me which episode you stopped at to tell you which chapter you should start from

[ashen perch]

That site

[pulsar path]

Manga plus has the whole series free on app

[low blaze]

You can read the wiki and watch the fights on tiktok

[pulsar path]

You only get once read tho

[hot cairn]

stop

[red lagoon]

😭😭😭💔

[low blaze]

It’s much faster

[red lagoon]

Ask ChatGPT for a summary

[pulsar path]

90 percent of onepeice fans these days

[kind vortex]

half way through 309

[ashen perch]

!wokereader

[tropic nova]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/527128641096908803/621744554995089436/Screenshot_20190912-183027.jpg?width=800&height=153

[slate tundra]

Sanji and zoro are both down
We NEED a saviour
We NEED someone to clutch up
WE NEED USSOP

[ornate tartan]

https://x.com/dybala41/status/2045198677019673006?s=46

Dybala (@Dybala41)

Nerona Imu #ONEPIECE〜

X · Apr 17, 2026, 5:52 PM

[mighty shell]

yeah i mean realistically what is gear fourth actually going to do in most scenarios these days. it's better to just convey that luffy's past the stage of needing it as a crutch and has mastery over it

[slate tundra]

He’s just like me I just read the spoiler summary

[ashen perch]

Hey someone actually saw that

Ty emood, yeah I agree

[slate tundra]

This server made me lazy

[red lagoon]

G4 to Luffy is now the same as g2 and g3

It’s not what it used to be fr

[ashen perch]

yeah I like it honestly

[mighty shell]

back in my day we thought gear fourth tigerman was going to beat kaido...

[red lagoon]

I don’t mind it at all

[red lagoon]

😭😭😭

[deep chasm]

yea tigerman shouldve been a thing

[graceful belfry]

Lmfao

[red lagoon]

I ain’t heard tiger man in years

[low blaze]

It’s fine to use g4 cuz it doesnt have that short time limit of g5

[deep chasm]

and tankman shouldve made a reappearance somehow

[red lagoon]

Fax lol

[dark nymph]

that one attack against Mars is kinda tankman

[iron oriole]

Tankman was the best G4

[pulsar path]

They need to start using this kinda stuff in movies

[sturdy steeple]

Well, yes? Do you genuinely believe this is a good reasoning? "Because its powers luffy has, so they should be showed off". You're right that any argument or criticism can be disputed but that's another level. That doesn't tell me anything. They should be showed off because what? If there's no reasonable explanation within this verse then idk what to say here. Imagine if I said "Sanji should've showed off more moves like hell memories". Why? Because I want so. Lke come on, man
"I'm sure you read plenty of stories where the older moves were replaced by better versions, sometimes strikingly different. And I'm sure you had no problem with that."

[ashen perch]

Wano theories were hilarious, the fandom's best ideas were Tigerman and Gear Red and people had the gall to say that ACoC was too basic

[dapper tree]

Down? Bro they are fine, just blasted back

[red lagoon]

Kaido is poneglyph

[brittle basin]

Instead, Kaido got beat by a retcon.

[red lagoon]

Resin theory

[dark nymph]

We need more ridiculous theories

[dapper tree]

Cheese theory

[opal gull]

Imu is taking the dub here

[dark nymph]

people are too tame now

[graceful belfry]

Enel theory

[prisma idol]

Time Space bending luffy

[dapper tree]

Cheese

[sturdy steeple]

Like it's fine if you prefer him using other forms more but I just thought there was a deeper reasoning to that. But it's just... That.

[red lagoon]

Man I thought bb was finna come and snatch kaidos fruit loool

[brittle basin]

With imagination on Luffy's side, Resin is still possible. And Imu is Gear Death, so that's in the bag. Goda.

[ashen perch]

Oh yeah, you reminded me of the other

BOUNCY CASTLE

😭

[mighty shell]

tbh bouncy castle kinda did happen

[graceful belfry]

He basically does do that

[mighty shell]

just not in the way anyone thought

[graceful belfry]

There’s just more to it

[hot cairn]

damn are you sure you want to switch to the manga? the fighting ends that same episode lol. If you still do it's chapter 427.

[sturdy steeple]

Have we ever seen UFO from Luffy outside of PH

That's my favourite move

[ashen perch]

No yeah but its only a tiny part of his abilities in Gear 5

[ashen perch]

People thought that was beating Kaido

[ashen perch]

YES

I loved that image

[deep chasm]

Yes, that is good reasoning. Powerset that you've had for 1000 chapters should not suddenly become irrelevant.

And yes, saying sanji shouldve showed off more of hell memories is a perfectly fine take.

No keeper, I dont think ive read many stories where a character is defined by a certain powerset for 1000 chapters and then they rarely use it after. And whatever those might be, I'd be happy to criticize.

Name any criticism you have and then Im going to ask you this same question. Why? Wheres the manual?

[ashen perch]

Awakening.... IT CAN BE ⁉️

[hot cairn]

you're just a closeted g5 hater smh my head

[red lagoon]

This is clearly doflamingo level😭😭😭

[iron oriole]

not the "this is clearly Doflamingo level"

[mighty shell]

lol going back to my reactions from when law and kid awakened. i should've known to let oda cook

[deep chasm]

And again, you try to dumb it down to me just liking other forms more

[ashen perch]

I like the random goon shouting YEAH THIS IS DOFLAMINGO LEVEL yeah lmao

[sturdy steeple]

I'm not trying to

[red lagoon]

I thought Luffy wouldn’t awaken

[deep chasm]

Thats what you did

[sturdy steeple]

You genuinely don't realise how you sound?

Man

[deep chasm]

Ive already responded to you

[hot cairn]

LOL

[deep chasm]

you cant understand my point, and so youre making it a bias that ive not once indicated

[hot cairn]

damn I wonder if Folarin still reads One Piece

[deep chasm]

@sturdy steeple

[low blaze]

was that the guy who dropped op because the resin theory didnt come true

[sturdy steeple]

But like
Everything you said just falls apart.
Is it forgotten? No
Is it used rarely? Also no
And yes, you did. There are stories where characters drop their old moves and move on to better versions.

Don't lie to me like that...

[hot cairn]

nah that's Stoop

[low blaze]

Lmao

[ashen perch]

I think when Law and Kid showcased their awakenings, the awakening idea was definitely gaining steam and I did think it'd happen soon. I just thought the fanbase was really uncreative with it

So my main opposition to the idea was "if it happens, it needs to be creative"

[prisma idol]

Nah stoop did the tsuki tsuki no mi with someone else

[deep chasm]

Youre not responding to my point. It is used rarely. I have said nothing about being forgotten. Please name a criticism of the story and watch me respond to it the exact same way

[ashen perch]

And well thankfully, it was

[hot cairn]

lmaoo

man I miss Wano

[red lagoon]

Fr

[hot cairn]

with Oli, but stoop dropped because of gear 5

[sturdy steeple]

If three to four people here failed to understand your point then perhaps it's either not a well formulated one or it's just invalid. For your sake, I'll stick to the first one.

[red lagoon]

Whatt

[hot cairn]

I think Droog just mixed him up with Pringles

[prisma idol]

Otama joins the SHs

[dark nymph]

if Luffy's awakening was just rubberizing his environment that woudl have been so boring

[red lagoon]

Ppl not fucking with g5 like that

[ornate tartan]

imu design is so majestic

[low blaze]

YES his name was pringles. How could i forget

[deep chasm]

Or youre all wrong. 3-4 people have disagreed with you before, dont act oblivious

[ashen perch]

Stoop is reading again, we saw that on an alt they made lol

[ornate tartan]

there are more fans of G5 then there aren’t imo

[red lagoon]

I always loved g5

[prisma idol]

I need the next chapter already

[red lagoon]

From the very first chapter

[urban lodge]

Revo Luffy my goat

[ornate tartan]

yes it’s a nice power

[red lagoon]

I need the next 10 like rn😭

[prisma idol]

I know the Golden week break is going to SUCKKKKKK

[rich hornet]

There were so many lame awakening theories, but I do remember someone saying Luffy would have a mythical hito that gave him cartoon powers and I’ve spent hours trying to find the message

[trim lily]

i hear rumours there’ll be a chapter on sunday

[prisma idol]

[deep chasm]

And also, yes feel free to think my point isnt well formulated. Dont dumb down my point for me, I didnt ask you to try and act on some moral high ground by trying to "help" . My point is not about a bias, and Ive told you that multiple times now

[brittle basin]

NO BREAK NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ornate tartan]

it will but only great chapters wait beyond it

[hot cairn]

I will never forget all of you ganging up on me for saying that the legendary fruit was Luffy's

[red lagoon]

Oda in here fr u know 👀

[ornate tartan]

👀

[trim lily]

i wonder if oda will cap the goldenweek chap with something good

[hot cairn]

lol, man I havent seen Oli in a while

[ashen perch]

The Sun Wukong theorist got very close in predicting the abilities too, but I don't remember who it was

[prisma idol]

Probably luffy showing up

[mighty shell]

(edited) is doing a lot of heavy lifting here

[trim lily]

i think loki and co. got at least 2 chaps before that

[red lagoon]

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[ashen perch]

Look man, I was just really putting a lot of stock in that paneling

[hot cairn]

ah right lol, I knew he wasnt just going to stop reading

he was so dramatic

[red lagoon]

I thought Luffy was gonna awaken agasint bb

[sturdy steeple]

I dunno, man, I was trying to give your argument a shape within the verse. If you think that's a high moral ground or whatever - aight.

[ashen perch]

Why show that conversation with Zunesha!!! That was my main argument back then lol

[prisma idol]

It really does depend on how well you see Loki doing. I dont see him doing well 1. Because imu is just that strong but 2. Loki is injured still

[hot cairn]

ugh dont remind me

[ornate tartan]

because u think BB is the final villian aluerax

[red lagoon]

I don’t think I know

Trust

[ashen perch]

Oda just loves his red herrings though, I should've known

[trim lily]

i think oda will want to show him off a bit more, plus i assume we’ll also be seeing what sommers and killingham get up to

[ornate tartan]

I mean u can say I believe but I know is crazy😂

[red lagoon]

[trim lily]

oda hates YOU personally

[prisma idol]

OBVIOUSLY OTAMA WILL AWAKEN HER FRUIT

[trim lily]

i thought the fruit would be zunesha’s

[ashen perch]

I thought Zunesha was the one to have it too yeah

[rich hornet]

With a resume like this, Usopp must really be beating Imu

[hot cairn]

because Zunesha was friends with Joyboy! (we can look back to that now)

[trim lily]

stupid vague elephant

[hot cairn]

true

[prisma idol]

I remember thinking it would be luffy and disliking a lot of the theories people kept putting for the awakening

[ashen perch]

Hindsight and whatnot...

[hot cairn]

smh

people called me crazy

[trim lily]

i thought we’d get a luffy awakening but i assumed it’d just be like doffy’s

which it kinda was

[hot cairn]

they were dropping essays on me saying how it was never going to be Luffy's

[ashen perch]

Resin was baddd, I liked the Hanuman/Sunwukong ideas so I guess Nika wasn't too far off

[hot cairn]

Resin was trash

[sturdy steeple]

Yeah I immediately thought it should be a mythical zoan at the very least

[hot cairn]

I dont even know why the server tried to push that lmao

it was all pringles and burst

[ashen perch]

Pringles man

[sturdy steeple]

LEGENDARY FRUIT
Resin

[trim lily]

peak

[low blaze]

Resin made sense

[trim lily]

i don’t know if it did

[sturdy steeple]

Made NO SENSE whatsoever

[deep chasm]

Ive told you what I think, Ive answered multiple times its not a bias. This isnt some team game where you're gonna help me by having me say something Im not saying because you dont get my actual point. I would rather you think my point is invalid and discuss it.

I think our dispute now comes down to the fact that no criticism has an actual handbook. I believe if you ever engaged in trying to say your own criticism, you'd see how easy it would be for me to just say "Why? What manual?"

[trim lily]

granted i don’t think the other theories made much sense either

[rich hornet]

My theory was that the protector god that Hyo compared Luffy to was based on Joyboy’s awakened form. Which didn’t happen, but not a bad line of thinking in hindsight

[hot cairn]

dont get me started on the joyboy possession nonsense (spice and archer)

[ashen perch]

Pringles didn't even make the theory btw

[urban lodge]

It's crazy how viral it went, Pringles posted a tiktok he made and it had like 270k likes

[ashen perch]

It was Yuderon

[trim lily]

i think we were like one decision away from that

[red lagoon]

Ppl thought g5 was like orange/red too

[trim lily]

oda even had it in his concept notes of the zoan will overtaking the user

[low blaze]

Knowing him, resin will come true over 3 years

[hot cairn]

I think I would've been the one to drop OP instead of Stoop if that happened lol

[hot cairn]

yellow

[ashen perch]

The worst part of the weekly experience is seeing how reactionary everyone is.

Its also the funniest looking back at it

[hot cairn]

ridicolous

[red lagoon]

Well even look back at now like that

[trim lily]

i was pretty terrified of the prospects of gear 5 after the chapter dropped

[red lagoon]

I can’t wait for ussop will die ppl to look back now and see how stupid they are

[trim lily]

glad it wasn’t as bad as i thought it’d be

[rich hornet]

G5 forever splintered this fan base lol

[trim lily]

makes sense given how gigantic of a change it is

[red lagoon]

I loved it from the very first chapter

[trim lily]

it’s basically changed the course of the story

[ashen perch]

Right. It can be annoying now to deal with these people but remember that nothing will be funnier than this in a few years time

[red lagoon]

I can see why it did split tho

[latent hamlet]

Imagine if g5 was just a traditional power up
With all the fanart color themes

[low blaze]

I havent fully read the 40 page document. But i can see resin become real if luffy gets a logia property because he already has zoan and paramecia

[hot cairn]

I guess some things never change in the fandom lol, most of the Wano breaks were people overreacting on shit

remember Oden week?

[royal orchid]

I wanted gear death instead of gear 5

[hot cairn]

[latent hamlet]

Remember when people called it the super saiyan of one piece

[trim lily]

enel is in onigashima

[urban lodge]

That should have been true

[latent hamlet]

Gear death be like "ah yes this show is finally serious"

[prisma idol]

People still want luffy to stop laughing in G5, saw some people saying that Imu stops him from doing it

[rich hornet]

The silhouette

[low blaze]

Imu is gear death

[hot cairn]

get outta here

[royal orchid]

GRRRR... KAIDOOOOO

[red lagoon]

I hope when op ends I don’t look back and think me saying moon piece was Stupid

[mighty shell]

where is that one artwork of law giving luffy the immortality surgery and saying D will never die

[trim lily]

i will say it was pretty bad in egghead

[latent hamlet]

We'll get a haki aura

[trim lily]

luffy laughing as vegapunk is dying out on the floor makes for a weird tone

[latent hamlet]

And then luffy unleashes GUM Gum Death Pistol

[ashen perch]

The worst silhouette isnt even the Hiyori one, its the one silhouette that Oda technically still hasn't revealed 😭

[royal orchid]

solid haki constructs

[ashen perch]

Remember the silhouette following Robin and Jinbe?

[royal orchid]

reverse haki technique

[low blaze]

Luffy knows he didnt die because a man dies when hes forgotten

[trim lily]

i hope oda justifies the loki silhouette

somehow

[red lagoon]

Is there still hope

[trim lily]

yes

[rich hornet]

I’m a law hater so I was kinda on board with this but what we got was so much better

[prisma idol]

No

[latent hamlet]

If we had gear death luffy would have had this aura

[trim lily]

elbaf is ending in 5 chaps then we go to the moon

[latent hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/robin-nico-robin-aura-sanji-one-piece-gif-26718930

[wraith mantle]

Pretty sure that was an intentional hint by Oda that gear 5 may have a really dark twist to it

Kinda like smile fruits

[red lagoon]

U hating it’s happening 🔥🔥🔥

[hot cairn]

according to the anime, it was Yamato lol

[opal gull]

when we going to lodestar

[trim lily]

i thought it might but then it didn’t go anywhere lol

[wraith mantle]

Luffy laughing his ass off as Vegapunk was dying was pretty horrendous

[ashen perch]

The anime shows that its Yamato but the manga literally never ever acknowledges it again 😭

[hot cairn]

Idk man...

[low blaze]

Imu is way too strong so kuma teleports everyone to the moon to have a training arc

[trim lily]

oda kind of dropped the idea of the zoan will negatively impacting the user

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[royal orchid]

if we went to the moon robin would probably not even say anything and just be a complete nerd looking at the moon structures

[wraith mantle]

I think Oda dropped hints in egghead and will expand on it in elbaf

[red lagoon]

Zoro will be tryna read the ancient moon transcripts

[hot cairn]

SOON

[red lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/zorro-onepice-gif-27262828

[urban lodge]

Robin would be excited to learn that aliens exist

[hot cairn]

good

[mighty shell]

this was a really funny filler episode in hindsight

[red lagoon]

What if lodestar is on the moon oh Yee

[royal orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-water-7-zoro-roronoa-zoro-drink-gif-8498340062512481928

[red lagoon]

It’s go time

[trim lily]

it’s insane that you can just breathe in space in one piece

[prisma idol]

Is it still possible guys?

[trim lily]

the space pirates have a suit that covers everything except their head

[trim lily]

yes

[red lagoon]

😭😭😭💔

[ornate tartan]

is luffy ever gonna fight a normal sized person

[trim lily]

oda said one piece would end in 2026

[wraith mantle]

2027 lmaoooo

[ornate tartan]

😂

[low blaze]

There is a possibility that no one likes…

[royal orchid]

did cunk leave or just bugged

[dark nymph]

damn

[hot cairn]

fools @barren token @pseudo gulch all of you

LOL

[prisma idol]

Getting Cunk'd

[distant vine]

Idiots lol

[hot cairn]

@brittle basin

[mighty shell]

i have a year and 7 months to be proven wrong

[wraith mantle]

What arc aaa 2022

[distant vine]

Luckily Ive never given a serious date. Thats the power of fence sitting

[hot cairn]

egghead

[wraith mantle]

Wano still?

[wraith mantle]

Zamn

[ornate tartan]

late wano early egghead i think

[urban lodge]

I remember people seriously thinking one piece would end in 2 years by the end of Wano

[royal orchid]

arcs take some time to end

[hot cairn]

wano ended in 2022, egghead started late 2022

[trim lily]

didn’t oda give an estimate of like 3 years in wano

[brittle basin]

i hate one piece

[wraith mantle]

If one piece doesn’t end by 2033 I am gifting everyone nitro

[pulsar timber]

Big boss shows who runs shit

[hot cairn]

that was in egghead, it was supposed to be on 2025 lmao

[trim lily]

he’s late

wrap it up oda

[hot cairn]

we're so back caleb, Zoro and Sanji got WASHED

[mighty shell]

next year is the 30 year anniversary what are we doing for the birthday

[rich hornet]

One Piece will end next chapter when Loki one shots Imu

[prisma idol]

Chapter 1066 just released

[hot cairn]

ending the series? jk

[trim lily]

everyone should send him something in the mail

[mighty shell]

let's all send him resin piece theories

[pulsar timber]

There’s levels to this. Gaban glaze as well. No one or rocks whitebeard garp or roger had haki like him

[red lagoon]

Zkk

[hot cairn]

that's a bit outdated

[sturdy steeple]

Laww, I don't know how to say that but haven't you ever, I dunno, entertained the fact in your head that we're kind of buddies out here? We've known each other for a long time. As in I'm not playing against you necessarily. Me asking questions and trying to conceptualize your point has nothing to do with acting on a higher moral ground. It's me trying to understand it correctly because misconceptions happen here. Maybe you haven't mentioned one key part that would make me realise it? And I'm trying to get to the roots of it? Do you think I'm sitting here for hours chatting with you because I want to show off my ego? I thought we were above that, really.
Yes, criticism takes form from opinions. That is most definitely true. But I just thought I'd get an answer that would feel more... Founded? I dislike Mihawk but I'm not telling people Oda should've written him better even if I think so. That's not valid in my opinion.
And this is why I spent hours trying to get to the bottom of it with you. I thought we could find a middle ground because G5 being all-powerful is what essentially steals screentime from other forms. And that's what makes them less relevant. IN A WAY.

[trim lily]

that makes it better

[red lagoon]

Zki

[hot cairn]

Oda is cooking

[wraith mantle]

I am sending him this

[gloomy light]

we never doubted him

[prisma idol]

Egghead's start is almost 5 years ago

[trim lily]

good lord that york design is horrendous

[red lagoon]

WHAT?

[hot cairn]

jesuschrist

[mighty shell]

so you want him to have a heart attack and die?

[royal orchid]

ch1066

[wraith mantle]

Damn I feel old

[hot cairn]

wait bluko

that's not true is it?

[pulsar timber]

One piece fans don’t want women to show any skin

[trim lily]

did you know elbaf started 4 years ago

feel old yet?

[prisma idol]

Its closer to 4

[wraith mantle]

Allergic reaction and die yes

[pulsar timber]

Elbaf started 17 years ago

[prisma idol]

But we are getting there

[hot cairn]

yeah lol it's def 4

[brittle basin]

It should've been me.

[urban lodge]

Maybe the real time dilation was for us

[wraith mantle]

This is really funny cause manga loved the York design specifically lol

[deep chasm]

Sure, I understand that. I dont think you're trying to be malicious. But I think it is a bit frustrating if we're having a debate, and you ask me several times, if not just state that you think Im just being biased. I would rather you just believe my point is bad. Thats a more normal thing in my opinion

[royal orchid]

was that the last time seastone was used in a creative way
seastone poker hidden in a lipstick

[hot cairn]

elbaph will be 2 years old in october/november

[trim lily]

it feels way longer

[prisma idol]

The start of wano is going on 8

[wraith mantle]

Chat is this aura panel or what

[deep chasm]

Again, I understand. But no criticism is "founded" then. Name a criticism, thats not just a bias, that has any sort of manual saying its valid

[trim lily]

that flashback did wild things to the flow of time

a little

[mighty shell]

i saw a tweet going around about how the last time usopp used any haki was when obama was still president 😭

[deep chasm]

There is no criticism of a story that has an actual handbook acknowledging its bad

[pulsar timber]

Loki about to get bounced by the king bruh. Tragic because I like Loki a lot

[royal orchid]

best chapter in one piece

[urban lodge]

Whoa

[prisma idol]

Omg its true...

[urban lodge]

He returns

[hot cairn]

well

it is true lol

[trim lily]

the next time usopp will use haki is when obama is president

[prisma idol]

Sb? When did you hack meeks

[royal orchid]

oh no my mask

[wraith mantle]

Need Socrates unbanned so he can tank the ensuing Loki slander when Imu low diffs next chapter

[fringe escarp]

Are yall still talking about gear 5

[warm thunder]

10/10 aura panel, imu mogs your fav and has low cortisol

[pulsar timber]

Imu after shitting on Loki and Luffy

[fringe escarp]

There’s no debate bro 🥀

[wraith mantle]

Imu canonically has high cortisol

Joyboy haki spiked it last arc

[trim lily]

what if imu was green

[hot cairn]

this chapter or the last one? Are you an Imu fan now Sb?

[trim lily]

how does this affect his aura

[fringe escarp]

Meeks isn’t SB bro

[rich hornet]

Depends on the shade

[royal orchid]

man calling me Sb I think jesus really does hate me

[trim lily]

[prisma idol]

The start of WCI turns 10 in 3 weeks

[sturdy steeple]

I think that's fair. I'd say the lack of tone in text is really messing the perception for both of us. But like, from my perspective I was sure that you have some kind of point but it wasn't directed to me clearly. You thought one thing but it sounded very different. Which is why I was mentioning the bias angle.

[urban lodge]

Someone's gotta be Sb while the real Sb isn't around

[prisma idol]

@hot cairn is this true?

[sturdy steeple]

Not that you meant it, more like "it sounds this way"

[trim lily]

rip sb, they finally got him

[hot cairn]

buh

[trim lily]

[fast pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/gear-5-gear-5-luffy-gear-5-luffy-wallpaper-gear-5-luffy-pfp-gear-5-gif-gif-9441059792819355795

[brittle basin]

Gonna be funny when Imu decimates all that aura.

[rich hornet]

Nah no thanks

[trim lily]

wow i see how it is

[hot cairn]

I dont hate any user here (the ones I did are gone now)

[wraith mantle]

My glorious king Imu will avenge the death my goat harald

[royal orchid]

he hates me so much bluko I don't know what I did to deserve it 💔

[deep chasm]

Well I cant do anything besides tell you its not bias. Again, I think the issue is you dont recognize that there is no handbook or manual for ANY criticism of a story. Or you dont recognize that my criticism here falls under that

[royal orchid]

out of context this looks really funny

[pulsar timber]

Imu got black flames jambe before Sanji

[hot cairn]

hold on now, we're missing context here

[royal orchid]

[pulsar timber]

Change the server icon to imu he runs shit now

[trim lily]

you got the trifecta

[fringe escarp]

I read up a bit, i think you can criticize odas writing based on decisions made with a character

[royal orchid]

no...

https://tenor.com/view/british-cop-screaming-screaming-sad-gif-10576833416044093400

[brittle basin]

English only server btw

[wraith mantle]

Mensagens

[fringe escarp]

That’s just inherent in reading a story

[low blaze]

Is this swedish or danish

[fringe escarp]

You’re naturally going to find things you dislike because of how it was written

[royal orchid]

portuguese brazilian

[trim lily]

close

[royal orchid]

just a country or two away

[low blaze]

Portugal portugese?

[hot cairn]

wait didnt Wano start in 2018?

[fringe escarp]

I think genuine criticism comes out of a desire and expectation of more

[royal orchid]

for Portugal it's just "portuguese"

[mighty shell]

i'd like to believe this but i find too often people are just hating for the sake of hating

[pulsar timber]

I assumed that Zoro and Sanji would fight Killingham and sommers but I was wonder how they’d be revived and powered up. Looks like we go thr answer