also-manga

[ashen perch]

yeah no, it just didnt feel good at all

[fringe escarp]

A flashback

[deep chasm]

Im confused are yall saying wano made it seem like the story was ending in a couple years or something

[fringe escarp]

It felt severely rushed for smth he kept telling us was planned since pre release one piece

[hot cairn]

yeah I agree with this, I got scared for a moment there when the "final arc" was announced

[ashen perch]

I dont even mind the flashback anymore, I think it was fine but at the time?

[fringe escarp]

Yes

[ashen perch]

''holy shit Oda is RUSHING LIKE CRAZY OH NO NO NO''

[deep chasm]

I dont recall that being a thing

[fringe escarp]

Yeah I was so fucking scared THAT FLASHBACK was now the precedent

[hot cairn]

yeah arsal, I had that same exact feeling

[fringe escarp]

For KAIDO

like ppl forget now but Kaido was built up more than BLACKBEARD

Kaido could’ve been a final villain type character

[ashen perch]

Oda made it seem like we're heading right into the end immediately after Wano lol, there were people speculating that Sabo or Vivi were already kidnapped and we could be heading to Marie Geoise soon lmao

[fringe escarp]

The sheer amount of set up for wano was immense

Even when reading it felt like the end

[hot cairn]

nah hol up

[dense rapids]

So many callbacks

[ornate tartan]

post timeskip > pre timeskip

[fringe escarp]

Nah don’t forget blackbeard build up in post timeskip was non existent at the time

[deep chasm]

I dont recall feeling that way but if thats how it was for yall then yea that would suck

[dark nymph]

yeah me neither

[fringe escarp]

All we had was Kaido set up

Every single arc glazed Kaido

[hot cairn]

there were some people that actually thought final war was happening right now

[deep chasm]

Felt like we just knew the final saga came after wano, which is still true

[ashen perch]

the thing is Laww, I didnt believe it at first either

[fringe escarp]

Secret god fruit loading

[hot cairn]

I remember saying that we needed a VP arc and Elbaph but fellas said that Oda needs to end the story

[ashen perch]

but things like that short Kaido flashback reinforced it big time

or how powerful it looked like Luffy had immediately become lol

[fringe escarp]

What made it worse is ppl DEFENDING it

[deep chasm]

I mean I think the shortness of the flashback was bad I just didnt think it meant like next arc was the last one or sumn

[fringe escarp]

“Kaido was NEVER suggested to be deep”

[hot cairn]

yea but the whole "final ARC" thing is what made people think it was really ending next arc

[fringe escarp]

“Kaido NEVER needed a flashback”

[ashen perch]

a lot yeah

[prisma yacht]

Kaido's fb was perfect for him

[deep chasm]

I see

[ashen perch]

I remember even Oda's editor was like ''oh yeah I didnt believe Oda on the series ending soon, but seeing the pace of Wano, it seems realistic''

not making this quote up, he really said this lol

[prisma yacht]

Why is bro skulling

[fringe escarp]

And do you know what saved me and gave me hope? What singlehandedly extended the story at least 8 more years?

[dark nymph]

maybe cause I don't really pay attention to these editor notes that much

statements and shit

[ashen perch]

were you reading weekly? these sort of things were unavoidable weekly

[prisma yacht]

It literally says everything we need to know for his char

[fringe escarp]

This ONE MOMENT made egghead feel like the start of a timeskip

Part 3 of one piece

[ashen perch]

its great that this editor has shut up btw, editors in general tend to be like

[fringe escarp]

Not even a new saga

[ashen perch]

too talkative

[hot cairn]

yeah exactly

[ashen perch]

but this guy hasnt really said much, at all

so thats nice

[deep chasm]

I mean Im not gonna say I remember everything from back then but you know I was reading weekly back then

[ashen perch]

I know yeah

[fringe escarp]

The main thing I felt was lost when Wano ended

Was nuance

[ashen perch]

Laww I swear I could find messages from you about the story ending in 2028 too

[deep chasm]

I still dont think people were saying next arc is last arc of the series. I feel like people always said it'd be 2-3 more at least

[fringe escarp]

Nuance felt dead

[ashen perch]

or earlier

[deep chasm]

I dont know if I wouldve said this or not. But yea I mean if this is back in like 2023 or something I wouldnt be surprised

[fringe escarp]

Nuance genuinely felt like it didn’t matter anymore

There wouldn’t be some creative or intricate way of handling the story in a way that made sense

[deep chasm]

I also think I didnt necessarily mean that to say we only have one arc left

I probably thought we'd have 2-3 after wano

[fringe escarp]

Kaido? Nahh we don need a flashback on him he’s super evil that’s his character

[ashen perch]

so you were on the same train then, actually believing that the story has only 180 chapters left after Wano

[fringe escarp]

Luffy getting a satisfying win? Nahhh give him 2 power ups out of nowhere

Call it a god form too

[deep chasm]

I mean I guess. its just we're mixing metrics

I didnt ever think wano or the next arc was the last arc

[ashen perch]

the belief that we're heading towards the end didnt mean that we're literally getting the final arc next

its just that we're rushing towards the end pretty quick

[deep chasm]

yea but we're in reality heading towards the end

like current reality we're in final saga

its not like we thought we were hearing to the end and were wrong

[ashen perch]

its been 140 chapters since Wano, yk what we meant back then

[fringe escarp]

I think ppl forget how bad Acoc was too

[deep chasm]

I think again this is complicated because youre mixing metrics

[fringe escarp]

Acoc set a really REALLY fucking bad precedent

Luffy was fighting Kaido in BASE

BASE

[deep chasm]

using chapter amount vs arc amount vs amount of years is very different. I wouldnt have known exactly how many chapters goes along with each arc which goes along with amount of years

[fringe escarp]

Yeah we learn Kaido was basically using his pinky toe the whole time

[deep chasm]

I never thought there was a chance of the arc after wano being the end

[fringe escarp]

But at the time?

Brother we had ppl thinking base luffy kills admirals

[dark nymph]

is it this shit lol, yeah I read it at the time

[deep chasm]

I think I probably thought it was 2-3 more arcs and each of those arcs would be pretty long arcs

[ornate tartan]

you know the panel that saved one piece for me? here it is

[deep chasm]

yea I guess the time of acoc being introduced was tricky

[ashen perch]

Laww I didnt say that, 2-3 arcs was definitely the common belief, my point was about the time and chapters left

[fringe escarp]

And how did he get Acoc? What ingenious training or strategy did h-

Oh he just

Did it

Oh he never knew it existed til now

And used it 3 panels later

Ok

Oh and now he’s slapping Kaido around in base

Oh roofpiece is over

Oh luffy vs kaido 1v1

[hot cairn]

people dont think about the metrics when saying OP ends in like 3-4 years

[fringe escarp]

OH YES LUFFY LOST FUCK THAT BU-

Oh sky split

[hot cairn]

that's what Arsal is saying

[fringe escarp]

This is how he gets it

[deep chasm]

which I think I have no clue on how many chapters wouldve been left. and back then I probably didnt have a great grasp on how many chapters goes along with how many years.

2-3 relatively long arcs vs arc after wano being the end definitely is a big difference

[urban lodge]

I'm actually more ok with how Zoro got acoc than Luffy

[fringe escarp]

SAME

[urban lodge]

At least Enma is established like 90 chapters before

[fringe escarp]

bro let’s be best friends

[urban lodge]

Lmao

[fringe escarp]

🤝

THIS ISNT EVEN ZORO GLAZE

THE MOMENT WAS ACTUALLY SO GOOD

[ornate tartan]

zay when are u gonna embrace acoc

[deep chasm]

I am more upset of how the new powerups for luffy are just better versions of his previous stuff, so he just barely uses them

[hot cairn]

this message was so hype ngl

[deep chasm]

he has g5, so all previous gears are irrelevant now

[fringe escarp]

when the fandom shuts up about it

[deep chasm]

and because acoc basically functions the same as armament, we barely care for armament anymore

[fringe escarp]

See that’s not the actual issue

[deep chasm]

Im saying thats what I dislike

[fringe escarp]

The issue with gear 5 use is that it’s useless

[ornate tartan]

do we agree that acoc scales to the user

[fringe escarp]

Luffy uses gear 5 HORRIBLY

[sturdy steeple]

I think it's more rational but like, getting hit over and over by ACoC masters is something I reckon would make you realise the formula.

[ornate tartan]

just because someone has it doesn’t mean shit

[fringe escarp]

the other gears shouldn’t be worthless

[fringe escarp]

NOOO YOURE WRONG

KAIDO SAID TOP TIERS USE IT

THAT MEANS IF YOU HAVE IT YOURE TOP TIER NOW

[ashen perch]

I think we even had this discussion before, you were aware of what an X amount of years meant, we just all genuinely thought that the series could end that soon. Not all of us were mad it, you werent, I was for example.

[sturdy steeple]

It doesn't appear out of nowhere. When you fight with strong haki users you get better at it yourself.

[ornate tartan]

is zoro a top tier to u bro😂

[deep chasm]

yes this is true too. His ass time limit should mean he at least tries to start with other stuff

[ornate tartan]

maybe his fans were right he’s yonko level

because acoc= top tier

yamato yonko level🔥

[fringe escarp]

This is the actual problem

[deep chasm]

I think both are problems

[fringe escarp]

Post gear 5 luffy is genuinely a fucking moron

He’s so so fucking stupid

[fringe escarp]

Ye but I wanted to get the root of it

And how it led to the issue of other gears being ass now

Luffy is just being a fucking moron and it’ll catch up

[deep chasm]

So I think an amount of chapters is also not a good metric in the first place. You never know how much content is in each chapter.

I think the best metric when deducing how much people think is left is arcs. I dont think I ever believed 1 more arc was an option

[fringe escarp]

Gear 4 didn’t make gears 2 and 3 useless because those are effortless to use now

But gear 4 has a drawback hes keenly aware of

[red lagoon]

How

[deep chasm]

Its not rlly the root of it. Those are just separate issues. Even if he used g5 well I'd dislike that the other forms are useless now

[fringe escarp]

Gear 5 nah that’s what he sees as base

[fringe escarp]

Well no the other forms would be useful because he’d use those far more often

[deep chasm]

penny explained it in the next messages lol

[fringe escarp]

Gear 5 would be a last resort

And not his base

[ornate tartan]

@red lagoon what the fanbase gonna do when usopp decides to stop being in base and transforms

[red lagoon]

They finna lose there shit

G5 don’t make the other forms useless cause Luffy not always gonna fight g5 lvl opponents

[fringe escarp]

This

This made weekly reading so fucking painful

This fucking cancer still exists

[deep chasm]

shouldve known g5 was an issue when he pulled it out on lucci

[ashen perch]

Both are fine. Luffy was taught the mechanic on how its meant to be used by Hyogoro without knowing what it is, which is by design. Oda just didnt want Luffy to walk into the Kaido fight with a powerup as big as that, or else we wouldnt have gotten Roof Piece or that first dramatic loss to Kaido in 1013 where Luffy is extremely inexperienced at utilizing it and just got too cocky.

[fringe escarp]

Nigga he used gear 5 on a snake

He does not give a fuck

[ornate tartan]

well I don’t believe that but i think majority of ppl do

[red lagoon]

Maybe that snake strong as hell

[fringe escarp]

I know

[red lagoon]

Plus we seen Luffy use g4 on the seraphim

[fringe escarp]

I’m just saying it’s so painful

[deep chasm]

dawg hes used it on lucci and scopper while zoro was helping him

[red lagoon]

He’s not only used g5 since wano

[fringe escarp]

Bro

That was the last time he used gear 4

[deep chasm]

this is like the only good instance

[fringe escarp]

Other than mini gear 4

[ashen perch]

he used it against Kizaru

[fringe escarp]

That was 120 chapters ago

[red lagoon]

Scopper is like that tho

[fringe escarp]

LMFAO

[deep chasm]

every relevant fight hes been in besides the seraphim he has used g5

[sturdy steeple]

Kizaru was the last time

[fringe escarp]

LOOOOOOOOL

I FORGOT

[deep chasm]

scopper is not so like that to where he needs to use it when he has zoros help

[red lagoon]

Ye he did use against kizaru

[ashen perch]

yeah you did

[fringe escarp]

THAT SHIT WAS SO EMBARASSING

[deep chasm]

and then goes right into g5. Hes used it too much

[red lagoon]

He used it here too

[deep chasm]

dawg

[red lagoon]

Even if mini g4

[sturdy steeple]

I mean

[ashen perch]

also again, I didnt say 1 arc was an option, that was just impossible. I was talking about years/chapters

[deep chasm]

I feel like we're grasping at straws

[fringe escarp]

I’ll adjust it then

It was 100 chapters since he last used gear 4

And 50 since he used baby gear 4

[red lagoon]

How

[deep chasm]

the point is not that luffy has literally never used any other gear since wano

[red lagoon]

He’s used g4 as much times as he’s used g5

[sturdy steeple]

If I had an ace I'd probably use it more to end things faster lol

[fringe escarp]

No he hasn’t calm down

[ashen perch]

literally never is just false

[red lagoon]

And he still needs to master g5 so why wouldn’t he used it

[grim locust]

nah hes used 4 more than 5

[ornate tartan]

cerberus omen

[deep chasm]

so Im literally explaining it rn

[red lagoon]

How can he master something he never uses

[sturdy steeple]

Like he probably goes into other forms when he's not feeling confident enough to waste energy.

[deep chasm]

when did I say he should never use it

[fringe escarp]

Luffy used gear 4 2 times in egghead

And mini gear 4 in elbaf

He used gear 5 3 times in elbaf

3 times in egghead

[fringe escarp]

Actually 4 times in egghead

[red lagoon]

I never said u said it im just saying not everything is an attack😭😭

[fringe escarp]

Its fucking worse

[warm sierra]

He also said hes at his most free in G5 maybe he just wants to be in it

[fringe escarp]

He used gear 5 7 times since wano

[deep chasm]

You asked a question implying my point says he should never use it

hence me saying youre grasping at straws

[ashen perch]

I think

if the difference is like 2-3

[spiral sapphire]

straw hats?

[deep chasm]

you're trying to make this point out to be more extreme than it is

[ashen perch]

you should reevaluate the significance of this being a real issue

[red lagoon]

fr

[deep chasm]

no one said luffy never used g4 or other gears since wano. No one said luffy shouldnt ever use g5

[fringe escarp]

The difference is 4 times bro

[ashen perch]

its negligible at best

[hot cairn]

last time Luffy used gear 4 was on Loki when he talked bad about shanks @ashen perch @sturdy steeple

[red lagoon]

Luffy has also fought the gorosei admirals and holy knights since wano

[sturdy steeple]

Oh shit

[red lagoon]

Idk why the amount he’s used g5 is bad

[sturdy steeple]

LOL

[ashen perch]

I knew I was forgetting one Jesus

[deep chasm]

The point is he's used in pretty much every relevant fight besides the seraphim. And it at this point takes away from his other forms when at any point things are serious, he almost immediately used g5

[ashen perch]

thank you

[sturdy steeple]

Yep

[ashen perch]

so 2-3 times?

non issue

[fringe escarp]

ok? He fought Kaido in base and gear 3 and 2 for 90% of his fight

[deep chasm]

you also dont want to know since you dont respond when I explain it 😭

[fringe escarp]

Because this was never a issue with gear 4

[ashen perch]

I think he has used the other gears more often if we actually start to count

[fringe escarp]

Gear 4 was almost always a last resort

[warm sierra]

Gear 2 and 3 are just kinda rolled into 5 anyways, only 4 is really still unique

[fringe escarp]

It felt like a treat to see gear 4

[deep chasm]

Lets also remember there is a significiant difference between luffy using g4 for one move and then turning it off, compared to fighting an entire fight with g5

[ashen perch]

if you add Gear 3 into the mix

the gear 5 usage is even lower compared to the other gears

[fringe escarp]

Gear 3 barely counts as a gear

[deep chasm]

Yes maybe it is if you're counting one off attacks with the other gears and compiling all of them together

[fringe escarp]

It’s basically just a attack

[vital heart]

Tekking's birthday will be on next Friday, when TCB will release Chapter 1181

[ornate tartan]

Luffy uses Gear 3 the most if you count it as a gear

but I see it as a move

[red lagoon]

He didn’t even unlock g5 till the end so how does this matter😭

[fringe escarp]

You forget he had gear 4

[deep chasm]

so he knows how to fight strong people with g2 g3 and g4

[ornate tartan]

elephant gun used to be his go to

[ashen perch]

doesnt matter

[deep chasm]

He does not need g5 immediately for a holy knight for example

[red lagoon]

G4 made him lose out on his haki

[fringe escarp]

^^^^^

[red lagoon]

He had to use it sparingly

[fringe escarp]

And gear 5 makes him lose

Like just lose

[deep chasm]

...

[ashen perch]

he does

[deep chasm]

oh my god the irony

[fringe escarp]

Gear 5 has a far worse drawback

Gear 4 he can at least move around like normal

Gear 5 he straight up is worthless

[deep chasm]

yea so your logic is he wont use g4 cuz of the time limit but then defend him using g5 with an even worse time limit . Can we just at least notice the inconsistency

[vital heart]

Bruh

luffy can one shot any holy knight outside of Shamrock without gears

[deep chasm]

Yea dont even debate that with me

[fringe escarp]

Do you not see the actual issue

[ashen perch]

He was worthless in Gear 4 lol, you dont even remember that

[vital heart]

https://tenor.com/view/spheal-real-spheal-that-makes-you-say-real-beach-pmd-gif-18150506591313841187

[ornate tartan]

to be fair oda only lets him gas out when the confrontation is over

[sturdy steeple]

Uhhh what did you guys do to wiki channel

[dark nymph]

I'm okay with Luffy spamming g5, he's trying to get used to it

[vital heart]

#wiki

[ashen perch]

Dressrosa, he was actually worthless

he got better by time

[vital heart]

The word wiki sounds Hawaiian

[fringe escarp]

If he runs out of gear 4 he is still able to physically move

[vital heart]

Tiki Tiki Wiki Wiki

[ashen perch]

not until WCI

[vital heart]

Kumbaya !

[red lagoon]

I just don’t get how g5 takes away from the other forms ifs used the other forms almost just as much as g5

[fringe escarp]

If he runs out of gear 5 he literally loses

[fringe escarp]

So literally one arc later?

[dark nymph]

Kinda bored of this time limit thing again tho, was boring with g4 and its even more boring with g5

[fringe escarp]

We are two arcs into gear 5 bruh

[vital heart]

3

1. wano
2. egghead
3. elbaf

[fringe escarp]

FR

[deep chasm]

And again you also dont want to know because when we explain you ignore the response. Youre stuck on the idea that its purely a matter of counting how many times each one was activated

[fringe escarp]

And he’s gotten WORSE

[vital heart]

Fr

Luffys a bum with g5

[fringe escarp]

Because he doesn’t use it well

[vital heart]

He got g5-rotted

[red lagoon]

Ok then explain it and I’ll respond

[vital heart]

He's become lazy

[fringe escarp]

He spams it like it has no drawbacks

[red lagoon]

I got two people saying different things

[vital heart]

Fr

[ashen perch]

yes, give him some time

[ornate tartan]

so what we thinking is luffy going to fight imu in his normal state first

lmk

[fringe escarp]

Wano was 140 chapters ago brother we’ve had time

WCI is half that

[deep chasm]

First of all, can you acknowledge you just contradicted yourself. You made a point about luffy not using g4 becaue it gasses him out, but you defend him using g5 despite its worse time limit?

[sturdy steeple]

Oh he still had his outfit

Cool stuff

[red lagoon]

Ok

[vital heart]

Keeper smh

Smh keeper

[fringe escarp]

I’ll stop talking to let law explain

[sturdy steeple]

What's up Meek

[dark nymph]

Think Luffy's mastering g5 the arc after this one ( time limit wise )

[vital heart]

have you ever heard of the phrase "my brothers keeper"

[fringe escarp]

We don’t need two ppl yapping at him

[sturdy steeple]

I might have

[ashen perch]

I dont think the chapter count really matters here, he'll get over it soon enough. I bet even as soon as next arc lol

also Luffy can move in that old man form lol

[red lagoon]

Zoro had to carry Luffy when he gassed out

[ashen perch]

he can run around, same as he did in Gear 4

[trim lily]

barely

couldn’t he also not move after gear 4

[red lagoon]

Barely

In wci he was fine tho

[ashen perch]

they are both the same

[deep chasm]

The problem is not purely counting how many times its used. But Luffy has used it in pretty much any somewhat relevant fight, excluding the seraphim fortunately. No one said he hasnt used other forms, nor that he shouldnt ever use g5. But the frequency of his usage of it has taken away from the other forms.

Even when you count his activation of other forms, you're showing instances of a one off move half the time. Keeper just posted one of the instances of g4, its literally luffy using g4 for one attack and then deactivating it. Same thing for the panel you posted earlier.

You all know oda can have luffy use g5 often enough to show it off, without it being spammed and taking away from other forms cuz thats how g4 worked. Luffy could perfectly well be written to fight for a significant amoutn of time in his other gears even vs people like gorosei, holy knights, etc. Rather than immediately using g5

[ashen perch]

Luffy is capable of running around a bit, only barely

but he is

and regardless, he's unable to fight in it for 10 minutes

so he's deadmeat if the opponent catches him

against Katakuri, he was only saved because of the mirror world

he was able to escape to different parts of Totto Land

[hot cairn]

I wonder what happened to those humans that were with Loki lol, they just disappeared after this lmao

[clever idol]

I think its likely imu and loki destroy elbag and the denizens evacuate

[clever idol]

And thats the ragnarok

[deep chasm]

I mean arent they just stuck in the first world

[clever idol]

so glad it didjt turn out this way

[urban lodge]

Lmao

[clever idol]

Roger was never supposed to be him

[urban lodge]

I love Roger but that's crazy

[clever idol]

Insane

[ashen perch]

😭

[sturdy steeple]

I'm not gonna lie but like, G5 does the same thing as G4 but better. Boundman for sure. And at the end of the day, Oda wants to include it as many times as possible because he just likes the idea of Luffy being free to do anything in that form. He's not restrained, he can draw any crazy shit.

[ashen perch]

dude I never heard of that one before

[clever idol]

Rlly?

[ashen perch]

yeah

[clever idol]

I think it stemmed from ppl expecting roger to live up to their pirate king expectations

[sturdy steeple]

Probably still in underworld.

[hot cairn]

lmao Morj is so dumb sometimes

[ashen perch]

what was he thinking 😭

[sturdy steeple]

They had no business appearing afterwards.

[clever idol]

Ppl assumed roger overtook rox by himself and banished imu

[ashen perch]

I dont really pay attention to OPtubers ngl

[red lagoon]

Man I still don’t get it but if you don’t like it u don’t like it

[ashen perch]

havent seen a video from an OPtuber in a while, I only hear about it from here

[hot cairn]

yeah but they never appeared when Luffy and company were down there with Loki nor when Loki was freed

[hot cairn]

exactly

[red lagoon]

Maybe Luffy just likes g5

[deep chasm]

Oda can draw whatever he wants. Fans are also allowed to criticize if they believe it warrants criticism.

Yes, the g5 case is a lot like the g4 case, and I believe g4 was handled better. Luffy didnt spam it, he'd use it more like a last resort. I think now theres the fact that, narratively, g5 is his freest, so it makes sense he'd not want to necessarily use it purely as a last resort. But its become a problem because he uses it so much the other gears are barely used in relevant battles.

I think oda could find a balance of him using g5 more often than he did g4, without it overshining everything else so much

[gloomy light]

Oda just likes g5

[red lagoon]

Seems like fun to use

[deep chasm]

🤦‍♂️

[ashen perch]

Luffy definitely did spam Gear 4

[deep chasm]

Yes it is fun to use, I have no issue with the in story reason being luffy likes to use g5. But we are readers, and we can criticize it from outside the story. I think oda could just have him use it a bit less to still give other gears some shine

[sturdy steeple]

I mean, I guess. But at one point Luffy also spammed G4.

[deep chasm]

Im not gonna get into a debate thats obvious. We all know luffy did not spam g4 the way he is spamming g5

[ashen perch]

he spammed it more

[deep chasm]

we're nitpicking words at that point

[ashen perch]

from like 784 to 1044, theres like 30+ times he uses Gear 4th

[sturdy steeple]

I don't see that as a problem at all. I don't even believe that's a valuable criticism, sorry.

[deep chasm]

Luffy never spammed g4 like he is currently doing with g5. Before g5 was a thing, luffy frequently used the other gears for significant amounts of time before he'd pull out g4

[red lagoon]

Ok I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t get it

[deep chasm]

I do, don't mention it

Luffy did not even use g4 for multiple arcs of the timeskip despite having it available to him. Even when its introduced to us, he uses base, g2, and g3 for significant portions of fights before activating g4

Luffy is not using other gears for significant portions of fights before using g5 (outside of seraphim battle, and Ill give a pass to kizaru because in story the idea is kizaru was too fast for him in g4)

[red lagoon]

Luffy has mostly fought hella strong ppl he may not even have the option to use g4 and the rest against them

[deep chasm]

he also was fighting hella strong people for his standard back then

this means nothing

[red lagoon]

Non of the ppl Luffy fought was stronger than him till doffy

[knotty pilot]

he could go g4 against lucci

[deep chasm]

please explain to me how you think Lucci or the holy knights are too powerful for luffy to even try using anything less than g5 on them

[celest mauve]

https://x.com/gersslp/status/2045189268214083853?s=20

Jeff (@gersslp)

IMU

#ONEPIECE1180

X · Apr 17, 2026, 5:14 PM

[gloomy light]

I mean I guess but I personally dont see an issue with the times he’s used g5 so far. Against Lucci he was fighting an awakened fruit with another awakened fruit, and all five Gorosei arriving at once called for g5, and so is the situation with Imu since he unleashed that massive amount of Haki

[red lagoon]

True I guess

[deep chasm]

Yes, and the people he fights after, including doffy, he uses the lower gears on, remember?

I think you dont understand that my point isnt that he cant use g5

its that hes using it frequently and immediately, to the point the other gears dont get shine

[clever idol]

Why wouldnt luffy want to fight in the form he feels most free lol

[red lagoon]

But these aren’t longed out fights like before there much shorter

[deep chasm]

Please name his fights pre g5, most of them he fought in g2/g3 for a period of time before usingg5

[mental lake]

Plus, as luffy has stated that form is the form where he feels the most free so of course he's going to use it when he gets the chance from a narrative perspective.

[deep chasm]

Yes they are long fights. Cracker and katakuri are long fights, he uses g2/g3 for significant portions against them. Kaido was a long fight, he uses base on kaido

[clever idol]

Gear 5 alsos allows him to everythimg he can do in previous gears and then some

[deep chasm]

scroll up

[red lagoon]

Yes that’s what I’m saying there long fights so he’s switching between his forms if he’s fighting for a short time there’s no need to save energy

[hot cairn]

yep

[red lagoon]

He deffo can beat Lucci even in base by why waste the time

[sturdy steeple]

Okay, so what? Every time he uses G4 he loses to these strong people. It's a valid thing that he would focus on honing his strongest form. What's the point of the criticism if G5 gives Oda more freedom to make the fights more entertaining? We've seen other gears, dude. We don't need to see them 1000 times more.
In fact, that would be a significant problem (not really) if he wasn't other gears occasionally. But he still does.

[deep chasm]

He has had long fights since having g5. Hes still chosen to use g5 immediately. Also I think you should realize if you just start the fight and use g5, you didnt know the fight was going to be short. the fight just began

[warm sierra]

Why do I care as a reader that G3 doesnt get any shine when luffy literally becomes giant in G5

[clever idol]

Sure. But considering weve have several hundreds of chapters pretty much since ennies lobby of him using gear 2 and 3. I dont know if im that receptive to this take about those two. Gear 4 however im with u. It came and went too soon

[sturdy steeple]

Like this rubber moron is an emperor now. Narrative pushes him to be in his strongest form all the time.

[shell sinew]

this symbol on imu's back i swear ive seen it before but i dont remember at all.

[red lagoon]

😭😭

[clever idol]

Id like to see more of gear 4 too but i dont really yearn as much for the other two

[ruby moat]

That’s the symbol that gets put on the deep sea covenant folks

[red lagoon]

I ac admit maybe seeing g4 more would be nice

I do miss snakeman

[sturdy steeple]

Why should I care about Luffy using King Kong Gun in G4 when he can do similar shit in G5

Luffy lost to Kaido and Kizaru in G4

[mental lake]

There's no way anyone wants to see gear 2 right now

[shell sinew]

oh yeah thanks

[clever idol]

I just like gear 4s design too

[red lagoon]

😭😭😭😭

[deep chasm]

Please replace every mention of g5 with g4, think back to when g5 wasnt a thing, and then see the issue.

And again, I already told you the answrr. His reason in story for wanting to use g5 more is fine. Im saying oda is perfectly capable of still having him be a little more conservative with it as to not make the other gears seem irrelevant. You can have the other gears be relevant still without seeing them 1000 more times. The same way you werent complaining with how often luffy used g2 and g3 when we got introduced to g4

[red lagoon]

We done with the 90s

[sturdy steeple]

Their designs are cool yeah

And we get a glimpse on them

[clever idol]

I think thats his point

[leaden rivet]

Gear 2 is pretty much indistinguishable from base Luffy at this point

[clever idol]

Its just a glimpse when he would like it to be more than that

Which is fair

[deep chasm]

Yes and like I just told Keeper, you didnt see this as an issue when luffy was still using g2 and g3 afyer g4 was introduced. If you agree on g4, thats fair. Even g2 and g3 could still get some shine. But at least you see the point Im making

[sturdy steeple]

Brother, before we had G4 Luffy was overusing the shit out of G2. It was never the problem.

[fringe escarp]

The grand GRAND majority of shit luffy does in gear 5 is shit he was always able to do

[deep chasm]

Thats literally not a thing. Nothing about being an emperor means you have to be in your strongest form 24/7, that actually makes 0 sense

[fringe escarp]

^^^^^

[clever idol]

Big mom and kaido were constantly holding back as does shanks amd wb

[fringe escarp]

Big mom doesn’t use her form that cuts her life span 24/7

[sturdy steeple]

That makes a lot of sense thematically to push him as the stronger being in the scenes.

[red lagoon]

Shanks and wb don’t even have forms

[fringe escarp]

He can do that without making him dumber

[red lagoon]

And neither does big mom that doesn’t take her life

[sturdy steeple]

G5 doesn't kill him lol

[fringe escarp]

Gear 5 literally puts him in positions where he should die

[deep chasm]

so dont care. But I dont see why you're trying to make it seem like its not a valid criticism. Good for you that you dont mind. The point is the other gears are still separate. And even to that point, he doesnt really show off g4 like moves much in g5.

I also dont know why you think its relevant to say luffy lost to kaido and kiaru in g4

[fringe escarp]

The only reason he doesn’t is MC tax

[mental lake]

For luffy it's not about being in his strongest form, but more so his freest form

[sturdy steeple]

Oh, the problem is just him being goofy now. Aight, I see your angle.

[knotty pilot]

it basically does

[clever idol]

Ur not getting rhw point. Using the strongest form is them going all out which they seldom did

[sturdy steeple]

It does not.

[fringe escarp]

Are you daft

I said he’s dumber not goofier

[mental lake]

https://tenor.com/view/gear-5-gear-5-luffy-monkey-d-luffy-luffy-luffy-gear-5-white-gif-12225526310195709408

[clever idol]

Its the equivalent of shanjs or wb usong their strobgest attacks

[fringe escarp]

As in he’s using gear 5 like a moron

[sturdy steeple]

Draining energy is not the same as killing yourself.

[knotty pilot]

luffy was lucky kizaru fed him

[fringe escarp]

Making your body into a sitting duck basically is

[red lagoon]

But we did see them and in the case of wb u know why he wasn’t

[deep chasm]

I dont think you understood my point. My point is right now you're arguing oh we've seen the other gears, lets focus on g5. But you had seen g2/g3 for years as well when g4 was introduced. But you werent complaining that nooo I want to see g4 get spammed and lets stop using g2/g3

[red lagoon]

Shanks hit kid with that big shit

[fringe escarp]

Gear 4 was hit with a massive downside that made using it a risk that he was completely aware of

[deep chasm]

so you can make luffy seem stronger without forcing his strongest form. There is literally no show where being a strong dude means you have to always be in your best form

[clever idol]

They why doesnt matter when my point is that they more often than not were not going all out and were actually holding back more often than not.

[fringe escarp]

If anything it makes him look WEAKER

[deep chasm]

Im aware, my point stands as Ive already responded to this

[fringe escarp]

because he NEEDS to use a self nuke form to do anything

[ashen perch]

you could say the same shit about him not needing Gear 4 against a Number but does it really matter

[clever idol]

Shanks and wb specifically hokd themselves bafk more than a bm or kaido

[ashen perch]

he still used it anyways, it was fine

[red lagoon]

Or ulti

[ashen perch]

yeah

[red lagoon]

I think it’s cause it’s all to recent

[fringe escarp]

He doesn’t, but he also doesn’t use gear 4 nearly as flimsy as gear 5

[sturdy steeple]

Pretty much what I was writing

[shell sinew]

i agree, i like seeing luffy using all of the moves in his kit not just gear 5. But i think oda intends gear 5 to be just the "new luffy". Gear 1-4 is just outdated to luffy now.

[fringe escarp]

No gear 5 is 140 chapters old

It isn’t recent I remember how gear 4 was handled

[deep chasm]

Yes, I could, and Id be fine if someone back then wanted to see an issue with him using it on a number. "does it really matter". None of the shit you debate in a discord matters. The point is I believe it to be a valid criticism. If it doesnt bother you, dont talk about it. But currently for you to be debating it, you must be saying its not a valid criticism. Has nothing to do with if it matters or not

[sturdy steeple]

Luffy used his strongest form at that time to fight off weaker opponents when in all honesty he could've finished without pushing his limits.

[royal orchid]

who's Jason Klum

[next prism]

To be fair, we had a decent chunk of flashback crammed in there. Your point still stands tho

[deep chasm]

Yea, guess what, this is also when hes about to get a new form. This is after several arcs of luffy having g4 that he finally started to use it on weaker opponents

For multiple arcs luffy does not ever use g4

[red lagoon]

Luffy doing it here was worse cause he knew he was finna go fight a yonko

[deep chasm]

and then when he starts to, he uses it as a last resort

[fringe escarp]

^^^^

Luffy doesn’t spam gear 4 nearly as much as you pretend he does

[deep chasm]

so no, luffy in wano finally starting to use g4 more often is not the same as g5 being introduced and being used in every relevant fight while the other gears get one off attacks before being deactivated

[red lagoon]

Ok I get what ur saying but Luffy being the most free I think is why he spams it

[blazing depot]

Niche optwt e-celeb. He talks about the animation in the anime mostly

[red lagoon]

His whole dream is to be free

[deep chasm]

holy repetitiveness

[blazing depot]

Idk what the new drama is though

[red lagoon]

Why would he hold back the form that lets it be the most free

[ornate tartan]

https://x.com/boofywock/status/2045252379008700622?s=46

BOOFY (@boofywock)

#ONEPIECE1180

Took me till just now to realize imu gave Summers & Kilingham omens and completely left gunko, despite those 2 (mainly Summers) flunking the mission but gunko putting in the most work, could that brief moment of defiance with Brook be coming back to bite her?

X · Apr 17, 2026, 9:25 PM

[fringe escarp]

Because it clearly is a detriment

[urban epoch]

I can tell you with a high certainty that it's definitely not me

[fringe escarp]

It’s like encouraging someone to use drugs because they feel good with em

[deep chasm]

Like I said to multiple people. The in story reason for Luffy to use it more is fine. That doesnt change that its within oda's ability to not have him use it so much that the other gears seem irrelevant

[fringe escarp]

^^^

[red lagoon]

I don’t get the bad here

[royal orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-james-doakes-doakes-meme-doakes-suspicious-gif-2531780266508928302

[sturdy steeple]

Are we not arguing that using your stronger form with severe consequences on opponents you can defeat without one is dumb? There are two points here divided I guess.

[fringe escarp]

The cooldown for luffy is being bitched about more than EVER

[deep chasm]

[opal gull]

does Luffy even know it has severe consequences?

I dont remember if he does or not

[fringe escarp]

he knows it gasses out

[next prism]

He did use it on Loki when he pushed the "insult Shanks" button, and that felt weirdly uncalled for at the time

[urban epoch]

I mean he's aware by now that he's drained after use of gear 5

[shell sinew]

thats the point though, the other gears are irrelevant now. Oda is intentionly writing the other gears to be irrelevant now gear 5 is introduced. You can like or disliek that decision. Im in the middle

[deep chasm]

No that is not my main argument. I agree that is dumb, but as Ive said, I think in story its fine because at the end of the day luffy isnt very smart, and I think it makes narrative sense for him to use the form that he feels free in anyway. I am not saying the exact same thing as the other guy

[deep chasm]

Yes, Im saying it is a bad decision to make the other gears irrelevant

[sturdy steeple]

Okay then

[royal orchid]

they are putting prices on his existence on twitter

[inner agate]

he knows and he doesnt care like when lucci told him gear 2 will shorten his lifespan

[fringe escarp]

Nah luffy IS smart

[red lagoon]

Delete pls

Thank u

[royal orchid]

ok that gif sucks

[red lagoon]

My eyes was hurting

[opal gull]

Gear 3 is irrelevant tbh

[fringe escarp]

The use of gear 5 is actively making him unintelligent because it’s a drug

[royal orchid]

I thought it was stationary lmaoo

[hot cairn]

OP twitter user

[fringe escarp]

He ignores the downsides in favor of the feeling

Like this is extremely obvious

[next prism]

I agree with you it would be nice if Luffy would build into using G5, especially if he's not facing some he knows requires G5, like Kizaru.

[fringe escarp]

If anything we should be seeing more work put into other gears so that he doesn’t have to rely on gear 5

Because his downside hasn’t gotten better over time

[next prism]

I give him Lucci for free, it was a "last time you pushed me to the brink, this time I'm going to put you down like a dog"

[fringe escarp]

He’s gotten worse

[opal gull]

I guess after each gear x

gear x-1 doesnt have any side effects

so when Luffy got G5, G4 now has no side effects i guess

so he can just use G4 and not even think about G2 and G3

[fringe escarp]

Gear 4 didn’t lose the side effect

[red lagoon]

What ppl did Luffy use g5 against he should have started in lower gears

[deep chasm]

Hindsight is 20/20 is like the motto of One piece fans.

If luffy for example didnt use g5 on lucci, used g4 for a significant amount of time on gorosei, didnt use g5 on holy knights, etc, its not like anyone here would be like NOOOO why isnt luffy using g5 more???

But because we got what we got, we have to act like theres no way it could reasonably be a bit more conservative

[fringe escarp]

Lucci

The holy knights

Gaban

[royal orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/luffy-gear-4-gear-fourth-snakeman-luffy-snakeman-gif-5566093877490573139

[shell sinew]

i dont know if its a "bad" decision. I think oda keeps gear 5 fresh with luffy making up new interesting moves every time. I also agree, I miss the old gears.

[opal gull]

The gears dont make a difference on the Haki tho right?

[gloomy light]

Against Lucci Luffy was fighting an awakened fruit with his own awakened fruit so I don’t see a problem personally

[red lagoon]

Lucci asks to see I swear I forgot if that happened in the manga but it did in the anime

[deep chasm]

Holy knights, Lucci, scopper, Gorosei.

Yes those are strong people, none of them are so strong that he'd be useless in his lower forms. if you're gonna be disingenuous and use the gorosei, sure. He still couldve very well used lower forms for holy knights, lucci, and scopper

[red lagoon]

Gorosei???

Ain’t no way u think Luffy should have started in lower gears against the gorosei

[fringe escarp]

Nah chill

[deep chasm]

Hey so have lucci not ask, or leave lucci and let him use it more reasonably in other instances

[fringe escarp]

Even in gear 5 gorosei clapped

[deep chasm]

can you read the whole message please

[red lagoon]

Loool my fault

[sturdy steeple]

I think Lucci is like the only time where Luffy had no need in G5 but then again it felt good seeing Luffy shit on him at his peak. That was the point of it.

[opal gull]

for Lucci he could've been in base and beaten him. Cause the Haki is still at the same level as it would be in G5 i guess

[red lagoon]

Plus Luffy gotta get back for sentomaru

[red lagoon]

Fax

Had to show him he not the same Luffy

[opal gull]

cause iirc he used it in base vs Kaido when he unlocked it right?

[fringe escarp]

The snake?

Did he need it vs gaban too

And sommers LMAO

oh and for a whole chapter of talking with Nami

[opal gull]

yeah he was base here

just using Haki

[red lagoon]

Luffy and scopper didn’t even fight fr so why does it matter if he went g5

[deep chasm]

Did luffy need to immediately go g5 for scopper or could he have tried g4 given he has zoro with him

[opal gull]

should have been able to beat lucci with ease

in base

[ashen perch]

He hasnt used Gear 5 like that either. Nearly every time he has used it, its been to his benefit and its been the smarter move to do so.

The two times against Kaido are self explanatory, the first time he overcame the weakness and the 2nd time the battle was over already.
He quickly dealt with Lucci while they were in a hurry, so that worked in his favor and the weakness did not matter here.
He didnt jump straight to Gear 5 with Kizaru, and had good reason to use it against him eventually. The weakness mattered a lot here, the most it matters outside of RIGHT NOW.
Same with the two times he used it against Saturn, he had good reasons here, the Giants were already carrying him in the first instance and the weakness did not even matter the 2nd time around.
The one against the giant animals was silly, but it didnt matter anyways and he was perfectly fine after it. Its his equivalent of Gear 4 against a Number.
Then he jumps into it against Gaban after briefly fighting in base, but he gives up and Luffy jumps out of Gear 5 and it doesnt matter again.
Now he uses it here against Sommers and Imu and yeah the weakness is a real issue for the 2nd fucking time. Big deal.

[red lagoon]

Did u want Luffy to go g4 just for show then they don’t even fight

[next prism]

I'd say Gaban yes, Luffy has a knack for knowing if he's fighting a true enemy, but the Holy Knights, it's not that the HKs are too strong, it's that the situation was an emergency. A quick and decisive victory was a very valid tactic.

[fringe escarp]

The sentiment matters

[deep chasm]

so do you have a response for the full message

[deep chasm]

what are you talking about

[red lagoon]

They didn’t fight

Luffy went g5

[deep chasm]

what are you talking about

[red lagoon]

And scooper gave up

[thick mango]

What is the thing? Luffy not going 100% max power all the time?

[deep chasm]

okay

[fringe escarp]

Opposite

[deep chasm]

so yes, I think it would make sense if luffy went g4 there

[fringe escarp]

Spamming gear 5 to a detriment

[deep chasm]

the same way he went g5 just for show

wheres the issue?

[opal gull]

so G5 is fine unless Luffy uses it for so long that it automatically runs out

[thick mango]

Like luffy using g5 too much and should instead more strategically save energy by meeting a threat at the minium effort required to beat it?

[red lagoon]

U said the issue is he went g5 against scooper gaban

[sturdy steeple]

I think Gaban is a bit tougher opponent than someone like Lucci, yes. And I don't find it unbelievable that he jumped straight into it when Gaban annoyed him. Zoro or not.

[opal gull]

But if Luffy himself switches back then its fine I guess

[royal orchid]

vs imu gunko lmao

[red lagoon]

Like maybe Luffy understands his opponents strength and doesn’t under estimate

[deep chasm]

And I just responded. Yes, it would work for him to use g4 for show instead, just like he used g5 for show

[red lagoon]

Scooper isn’t weak

[iron oriole]

Luffy honestly should have kicked Lucci's ass in base or just G2

[deep chasm]

oh my god

[ashen perch]

fixating on the snake and Gaban instance is silly because as I said in my message above, the weakness is literally irrelevant

[deep chasm]

do you think g4 luffy alongside zoro is weak

[ashen perch]

its just a quick Gear 5 appearance and its cool

[red lagoon]

No

[hot cairn]

https://x.com/goroseitaken/status/2045148481757569156?s=20 @pulsar path

TAKEN (@goroseitaken)

#ONEPIECE1180
Lembrando que quem fez as roupas dos Mugiwaras foi a Gerd, cujo hobby é (era) fazer roupa para humanos.
Parece que vai ter que arranjar outra coisa...

X · Apr 17, 2026, 2:32 PM

[sturdy steeple]

I also don't see any reason why wouldn't Luffy jump into G5 while going at the Holy Knights. He sensed a massive surge of haki because Imu was there.

[ornate tartan]

it’s time to have some uncomfortable conversations

[red lagoon]

But u can always get caught slipping

[sturdy steeple]

Is that unbelievable too?

[red lagoon]

Why take the risk against a seasoned vet like him

[ashen perch]

Nerona Mi btw

[graceful grove]

Hajrudin finally died Oda cooked

[ashen perch]

thats the conversation that makes many uncomfortable

[red lagoon]

True

[ornate tartan]

yes she is special indeed

[deep chasm]

I didnt ask if hes a tougher opponent. Im asking if he needed to immediately use g5.

I also am not asking if you believe it. Im asking if he physically needed to use g5 on scopper. The situation is scopper shows up and is this strong guy. He has king of hell zoro helping him, is scopper so strong that itd be dumb for him to try g4 first?

[royal orchid]

it's not about opponents strength, Luffy enjoys G5 because of the freedom it allows him

[pulsar path]

I can't understand any of this!!

[red lagoon]

That’s what I said but he didn’t like when I said it 😔

[deep chasm]

okay so why are you telling me scopper isnt weak as if that changes anything

[red lagoon]

Cause u can always get caught slipping if u don’t take opponents serious

[deep chasm]

Same logic goes for luffy using g2/g3 when he had g4. Why didnt luffy use g4 immediately in every fight he was ever in?

[red lagoon]

Idk ask him

[deep chasm]

So g4 is serious if you couldnt tell

[next prism]

Gerd made the clothing for the Mugiwaras, that was her hobby. Guess she'll have to find a new hobby

[deep chasm]

Or you tell me. Are you unable to answer?

[red lagoon]

Idk maybe u just like g5

[ashen perch]

I did address this already but its an invalid criticism because you're fixating on instances where it literally is just a quick Gear 5 appearance that does not negatively affect Luffy in any sort of way, and his logic of using it is perfectly sound. Outside of it, you might just be mad about seeing Gear 5 a lot, which isnt a real issue.

[pulsar path]

Imu will die for this!!!!

[red lagoon]

Don’t like*

[red lagoon]

That’s what I’m saying

They didn’t even fight

Why does it matter if he went g5

[deep chasm]

Because Oda in my scenario realizes he doesnt want the other gears to seem irrelevant.

If oda wrote luffy using g4 there, you'd see absolutely 0 issue. The same way you dont have some issue with luffy not using g5 on the seraphim

[pulsar path]

Gerd didn't even get a chance to make clothing For Robin and NamI!!!

[ashen perch]

Luffy is literally running around perfectly fine after the snake fight!!

what even is the issue there lmao

[deep chasm]

Can you come up with an actual response instead of trolling

[graceful grove]

they need clothes?

[red lagoon]

I’m being serious

Maybe u just don’t like g5

[ornate tartan]

the G5 vs snake episode is this sunday btw and the animation looks promising

[ashen perch]

Oda just thought it was cool, Luffy thought it was cool, thats kind of it really

[pulsar path]

Gerds going to join the. As the seamstress/ doctor l

[deep chasm]

Tell me what my point is

[deep chasm]

Youre trolling, don't bother me with that if youre gonna troll or do stupid strawmanning

[red lagoon]

I just said I was being serious

[deep chasm]

Im telling you youre not

[red lagoon]

How do u know what im doing

[ashen perch]

you were arguing about Luffy not using it smartly, and spamming it willy nilly

[red lagoon]

Sorry aluerax

[deep chasm]

So elaborate on what my point is

[ornate tartan]

bro apologized to himself 😂 aura

[red lagoon]

I said earlier I don’t understand ur points but if u don’t like it u don’t like it

[opal gull]

I think what Law means is if it would be wrong for Luffy to even try G4 in the first place as he also had Zoro with him and Scopper was just a "strong guy"

[ashen perch]

I elaborated on my point already, his usage of it has been logically sound and has not negatively affected him outside of the Kizaru fight

[red lagoon]

At least in this small chat I seen more ppl not understand it either

[ashen perch]

I dont need to elaborate on your point

[red lagoon]

Maybe we all just slow

[deep chasm]

So you dont understand my points, just leave it at that then instead of trying to dumb down a point you dont comprehend

[opal gull]

G5 works but G4 would have also worked

against scopper

[deep chasm]

I asked you to elaborate on what my point is. I dont think you know it. Im not saying the same thing the other guy is saying

[red lagoon]

but I don’t get why scopper is even a valuable problem if they didn’t even fight

[ashen perch]

so you tell me what your point is then

[deep chasm]

Yea you dont know what it is

[red lagoon]

U know oda just added that to draw a cool scene

[dark nymph]

oooof

[ashen perch]

none of these are a real problem

[deep chasm]

So is it is an issue if oda drew it with luffy using g4 instead?

[ashen perch]

yes

[knotty pilot]

luffy doesn't need g5 against holy knights

[ashen perch]

Gaban needed to see the white form

literally the whole point of the scene

[red lagoon]

He also sensed imus haki so why woudlnt he

[deep chasm]

Mr disingenuous as always

[ashen perch]

that is the point though?

[deep chasm]

uh huh

[knotty pilot]

against imu sure

[deep chasm]

So you know how someone is able to not immediately activate their form? Like he could just wait til he reaches imu to activate it? Especially if this form has a time limit

[ashen perch]

Just being silly now, it quite fucking literally is the point 😭

[red lagoon]

So ur upset he didn’t wait to use g5 against imu

[knotty pilot]

true

[wraith mantle]

I have a feeling elbaf will have a second flashback soon

[clever idol]

Yall still going at it huh

[shell sinew]

Its gear 5 piece now, that is the exactly the way oda wants it to be. gears 1-4 are dead. This is the way one piece is now. You can dislike the change but thats irrelevent

[deep chasm]

can you respond seriously

[ashen perch]

Gaban ends the fight because he sees Gear 5, he gives up because of it

[clever idol]

Laww u rlly will fight any and everybody

[deep chasm]

So stop debating in a server if everything is irrelevant

[clever idol]

[grand flower]

What y’all wrong about this time?

[deep chasm]

so gaban wouldnt give up over g4?

[ashen perch]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[royal orchid]

half of the Kizaru fight last arc used snakeman

[clever idol]

U not being ashy

[bold sonnet]

[clever idol]

[knotty pilot]

are you excited?

[wraith mantle]

Yes

[ashen perch]

Gear 5 is Nika

[dark nymph]

I'm never wrong

[ashen perch]

Gear 4 is just a fat balloon guy

[royal orchid]

the imu flashback will break the internet

[red lagoon]

He didn’t give up cause of strength he gave up cause he just wanted to see the form

[grand flower]

Yeah I stay moisturized try again

[ashen perch]

why would Gaban care

[knotty pilot]

that's so nice

[grand flower]

Also Gaban very explicitly wanted to see luffys “white form” himself

[shell sinew]

exactly the debate is pointless

[red lagoon]

Oda wasn’t tryna have Luffy have a full fight with gaban so why would he go through all his gears

[graceful grove]

not a singl thing it took no time for imu to reach luffy and loki

[grand flower]

That’s like, EXPLICITLY his test

[royal orchid]

not pocket sized tsk tsk tsk

[red lagoon]

Fr

[hot cairn]

they're debating if saying Luffy is spamming gear 5 is a real critisim or not

[sturdy steeple]

That's fucking Scopper Gaban. He made them nervous BEFOREHAND. And no offense to Zoro but he's not that guy. He goes into G5 and then goes out of it without losing any strength.
At this point, I'm confused. You don't want other gears to seem irrelevant but if Luffy can just go out of it then what's the problem? Do you just hate seeing G5 visually? You're not asking me if it's believable, okay, then I'm failing to see the problem here. And now we're back at "don't you think it was dumb to use it instead of trying something else first"

No, because it's fucking believable

Here's your answer

[grand flower]

OP is such a masterpiece thr fandom gotta debate stupid shit like this

[dark nymph]

real

[red lagoon]

When Luffy fighting the gorosei do we deadass expect him to use other gears that’s not g5

[sturdy steeple]

Like I'm trying to understand the point of the criticism and I just cannot lay these pieces.

[knotty pilot]

it has many flaws

[deep chasm]

🤦‍♂️

[hollow hawk]

😂😂

[clever idol]

Name 97

In order

Or ur wrong

And ugly

[deep chasm]

So dont involve yourself with it

[hollow hawk]

I mean he shouldn’t have used it on lucci what a waste

[ashen perch]

Laww do you genuinely believe this is about strength

[grand flower]

Gaban explicitly wanted to see G5 specifically

[hot cairn]

true

[ashen perch]

Gear 4th is a fat balloon guy, Gear 5 is the all white Nika form

Gaban wanted to see Nika

[red lagoon]

Luffy vs gaban wasn’t meant to be a serious fight it was just to see his form

[sturdy steeple]

That too

[red lagoon]

Why we wasting time on g4 and g3

[sturdy steeple]

Narratively the scene was about Gaban seeing Nika and what he can do

[deep chasm]

Wow man its almost like g4 is stronger than base, maybe he should try that now that base wasnt working.

Again, if g4 was used there, you would see 0 issue. You see an issue because hindsight is 20/20. Unless you want to show me screenshots where you complain about luffy not using g5 on the seraphim.

[opal gull]

personally I feel G5 should be used on rare occasions or at the very end, so it is still Hype and doesnt become "normal"

but nothing wrong with what we have.

[royal orchid]

Gaban in the last panel

[hollow hawk]

I think luffy should work more on his base

[royal orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/american-dragon-the-bradster-jackpot-jake-long-win-gif-21865119

[deep chasm]

So I think you should realize something being a believable use to you changes nothing about my point

[opal gull]

his base is pretty good

[red lagoon]

Oda wasn’t tryna have Luffy and gaban have a full brawl so I still don’t get why u wanting Luffy to use g4 on gaban

[deep chasm]

good for him

[grand flower]

Gaban noting the white form is very clearly supposed to be related to the same thing shanks is thinking here

[muted hedge]

https://x.com/y5art/status/2045232106184364400/photo/1
they added a health bar lol

Zoro (@y5art)

Elbaph final boss ⚔️

X · Apr 17, 2026, 8:05 PM

[hollow hawk]

Always more for improvements

[ashen perch]

exactly

[deep chasm]

Good for him

[hollow hawk]

So he doesn’t have to rely on other forms

[dark nymph]

health bar should have been on Imu tbf

[ashen perch]

also youre right Shuron, so many of the arguments we have here are so damn pointless

this is why I'd rather just talk about the future of the story

[deep chasm]

so please do that

[royal orchid]

wonder where shanks got to learn about nika

[sturdy steeple]

Or maybe he can try a stronger form because the base wasn't working. The most nothingburger thing I've ever witnessed.

[deep chasm]

Whys there multiple people acting like they cant just not engage in the debate if they dont want to

[grand flower]

Sometimes I genuinely can’t believe the things people allegedly evaluate stories on

[muted hedge]

i think it makes sense for Loki to have it, given he is the one who is going down

[red lagoon]

When I didn’t reply u pinged me saying why didn’t I reply

[deep chasm]

Yea keeper, its almost like this is a debate based on several instances. And the scopper situation is one of many. Whats confusing you?

[muted hedge]

it also plays into the Imu is the protagonist vibe

[dark nymph]

wait, true

[grand flower]

“Is the battle shonen MC using his strongest form too much in the final stage of the story” what are we joking?

[opal gull]

also i think luffy is made to use G5 more recently so people can see he is Nika?

[deep chasm]

Mind you, I am not talking about you. You never expressed not wanting to debate, you just dont understand it or respond

[dark nymph]

Imu is the MC

[sturdy steeple]

Because the other instances are no better. They're the same thing.

[hollow hawk]

Lucci is worst example tbh

[opal gull]

he was for his era

[grand flower]

I wanna ask Laww what is his point since I wasn’t here but I’m afraid he won’t answer me

[hollow hawk]

Luffy should of slapped him in base

[opal gull]

yeah absolutely

[red lagoon]

Luffy had to show Lucci he’s not the same and also didn’t Lucci ask to see it

[hollow hawk]

That’s the thing

[hot cairn]

I'm waiting for this debate to end ngl, it's kinda silly that you guys have gone for almost two hours on it

[deep chasm]

So please scroll up and remind yourself of my point. The point is you are an out of story reader, you can see these instances add up, to the point that other gears have become irrelevant. I think oda should be trying to make them somewhat relevant still

[hollow hawk]

Only ppl worthy deserve to fight his form

[grand flower]

Also you guys also realize Luffy needs to exercise his Awakening to gain conditioning toward it right?

[hollow hawk]

Unless it’s training or smth

[ashen perch]

I feel like sometimes its just trying to formulate a real tangible issue that they can point to when they struggle to identify why they dislike something. What forced criticism is basically, its fixating on non issues or trying to come up with issues that seem just real enough lol

[red lagoon]

True

How can he get better with it without using it

[grand flower]

That’s why Luffy uses it for stuff like the Elbaph snake

[ashen perch]

and he was perfectly fine in the very next panel

so he's getting better

[sturdy steeple]

The thing is
If you guys were just to say "oh I like G4 more visually so I wanna see it more often" I would eat it up, no questions asked. That's not a valid criticism but that's at least a valid wish.

[grand flower]

That’s why I tell people, they need to know it’s okay to just dislike something because that’s just the vibe you feel

[hollow hawk]

Luffy should just focus on stamina

[red lagoon]

Exactly

[grand flower]

It’s okay to not have an in-depth reason

[red lagoon]

U can say u wanna see g4 just because

[grand flower]

You CAN just dislike something because you just do

[red lagoon]

Exactly

[grand flower]

You don’t need to make up something about it inherently being bad

[red lagoon]

U can just say u wanna see g4 more

Just cause u like it

[grand flower]

Not every good thing will be your cup of tea

[royal orchid]

me to oda if luffy actually starts to stay longer and longer periods in gear 5 after tiring out just like he's working out till failure and slowly gaining muscle mass

https://tenor.com/view/arc-bumpy-gif-14916454485267326964

[deep chasm]

@grand flower and dont be one of the people complaining about "man I wish we didnt have to debate this" if youre gonna ask about it

[hollow hawk]

They need training arc asap

Esp before final arc

[trim lily]

do they though?

[ashen perch]

Things would be a lot simpler yeah, like maybe the criticism doesnt have any substance but its fine if its a more subjective evaluation from somebody. Its just a feeling that somebody has, its not inherent to the series nor is it going to be universal. Thats fine!

[dark nymph]

I got one more arc with time-limited g5 left in me, then imma start hatin

[sturdy steeple]

But we're arguing about whether he should've done so or not, whether he could've tried something else at first. And in most of the G5 scenes him using it was justified be it narratively, thematically, logically, whatever.

[deep chasm]

Yea keeper, why would I say that when I dont care about that?

[trim lily]

didnt they handle the knights pretty well here

[grand flower]

Idk man I don’t really think you have a start when the current arc also showed Luffy with new talent at G4

[hollow hawk]

Half of them got no haki

[trim lily]

well thats not really an easy fix lol

[hollow hawk]

Without plot armour

[trim lily]

unless oda gives them a speical haki drug

[hollow hawk]

They r dying

[grand flower]

The gears are being rendered irrelevant but Luffy is also developing mini-G4 in the current arc?

[ornate tartan]

omen knights

[grand flower]

How does that work?

[ornate tartan]

im excited

[hollow hawk]

Bro each of them should Atleast have one haki max

[grand flower]

Yeah that’s how I am with like, Bege

[deep chasm]

Yea, my point isnt about some design or random bias preference. Yall are discussing this just to make yourselves feel better

[hollow hawk]

It’s embarrassing how some still don’t have

[ashen perch]

Luffy has used the other gears about as much if not more than Gear 5, there's a pretty good balance here

[grand flower]

I have no in depth rhyme or reason

[trim lily]

they should yeah, or at the very least seastone

[grand flower]

Bege just doesnt hit like that for me

And that’s fine

[trim lily]

its crazy oda hasnt given them anything related to anti-df stuff yet

[ashen perch]

thats fair

[deep chasm]

You know my point already. You arent bothered by it, so dont discuss it

[dark nymph]

saving that for Shanks crew ig

[hollow hawk]

Eg robin should have armament, ussop observstion maybe Nami too

[red lagoon]

If Luffy hasn’t used g4 at all since I could understand

[hollow hawk]

Franky could be either

[knotty pilot]

basically no one using sea prism stone is crazy

[royal orchid]

nami has weather observation

[ashen perch]

I love Bege, idk, I just fall in love with him so hard weekly. You dont see a lot of love for him from people who weren't really there

[red lagoon]

bege cool

[trim lily]

just give franky seastone arms or something

[red lagoon]

Fuck apoo

[hollow hawk]

It could be for travelling etc

[red lagoon]

I hate that nigga

Omg I hate apoo soo much

[hollow hawk]

Since he’s navigation

[trim lily]

use seastone at all really, its so underutilized

[hollow hawk]

Shes*

[ashen perch]

you just take him in more when youre reading weekly, he's on your mind more

[deep chasm]

Which again Ive broken down already. But you all are just stroking each others ego at this point being like "yea man if the criticism was over a bias Id agree" its not over a bias so get over it. Debate it or leave it alone

[sturdy steeple]

Like maybe your point is more like "I want G5 to a powerup that is exclusively used in extreme situations BECAUSE (that's important) it SHOULD have very severe consequences (IT DOES NOT NOW)"
And in THAT CASE Luffy using G4 would be more justified.

But so far

[ashen perch]

Laww I'd like you to state your point of disagreement

[ashen perch]

Because I have shared my idea of what I think it is

[sturdy steeple]

G5 is absolutely perfectly fine

[ashen perch]

but I havent heard it from you directly laww

[red lagoon]

I fuckin hate apoo

[royal orchid]

this is one damn thing I have about this series

[deep chasm]

Ive told you my point already, do you need me to screenshot it again?

[trim lily]

at least hes not the worst in fiction

[royal orchid]

sea prism stone is only used for cuffs

[red lagoon]

Sadly…

He may just be

[ornate tartan]

shanks fans hang in there

[ashen perch]

Apoo is funny to me

[royal orchid]

no one uses weapons

[ashen perch]

there's one Apoo fan here

[red lagoon]

Yuck

[trim lily]

we have a perfect tool for those without haki to use and oda completely neglects it

[ashen perch]

and its probably not anyone you guys would expect it to be

[muted hedge]

kinda feel this way with Caribou

[ashen perch]

its a staff member, take your best guess

[trim lily]

did over half the strawhats in egghead need to be completely unable to hurt kizaru

[dark nymph]

fats

[red lagoon]

Snod

[knotty pilot]

fr. like we saw hawkins using against law and how effective it was

[opal gull]

Juba?

[ashen perch]

Abdoo is correct

it is Juba

[red lagoon]

Yuck

[ornate tartan]

dang i was wrong

[red lagoon]

I feel my self being sick hearing apoo and fan

[royal orchid]

lmao I was between juba and fats

[ornate tartan]

the first time in years

[red lagoon]

In fact

A*oo

[ashen perch]

you guys were not around when he was semi regularly posting this shit

its not nsfw

[royal orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-bege-bege-one-piece-capone-bege-supernova-gif-9080945751313498553

[ornate tartan]

does anyone in here like vinsmoke judge?

[trim lily]

then whyd you censor it

[red lagoon]

Yuck

[ashen perch]

but it might be difficult for some eyes to see all that

[royal orchid]

bro thinks he's part of the team

[hot cairn]

me with Carrot

[deep chasm]

@ashen perch . I think regardless of in story reasons, you have a situation where now the other gears appear irrelevant to the story, I think it is perfectly within oda's capabilities to make that not the case, while still having luffy use it often and fulfill these narrative situations you want.

If you dont understand how thats possible, I think you need to better understanding of how an author affects a story

[sturdy steeple]

Yeah I'm confused because I thought we weren't discussing whether Luffy is dumb for using stronger than necessary forms

[ornate tartan]

and Law😂

[deep chasm]

this message literally shows me saying thats not my point

[ashen perch]

there are some former judge top 5-ers

[dark nymph]

do we still consider x-drake a supernova, cuz if so he's the worst one

[sturdy steeple]

Which is what I'm saying

[trim lily]

not anymore

[deep chasm]

When did I ever say my point is now that luffy is dumb for using the form

[ashen perch]

is that still a thing

[sturdy steeple]

But now we're back on it

Somehow

[trim lily]

hes back to being a marine

[deep chasm]

No we arent

what are you talking about

[dark nymph]

oken so hawkins is the worst

[trim lily]

yeah

[red lagoon]

Hawkins is better than a*oo

[dark nymph]

something something shit vs shit

[royal orchid]

he's there with apoo on the ones oda just chucked into wano to finish their arcs for now

[trim lily]

hawkins had a fun-ish fruit but hes dreadfully boring

[muted hedge]

i rarely think about Judge

probably one of the characters i think the least about

[graceful grove]

https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-well-of-course-i-know-him-hes-me-kenobi-star-wars-gif-21401108

[trim lily]

the only time i think of judge is in regards to his marriage with caesar

[grand flower]

https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/luffy-using-mini-gear-4.jpg?q=49&fit=contain&w=750&h=422&dpr=2

???

[muted hedge]

i'd say maybe in regards with him being a trash father

[graceful grove]

sanji will be begging judge for another power up after this arc

[red lagoon]

A** litterally looks dumb as shit sounds stupid af is weak as hell and got 1 shot by zoro is a pussy he is the worst worst gen and brings nothing to the story even urouge who still hasn’t shown up in a arc is better than him

[deep chasm]

what does this possibly have to do with what you just replied to

[muted hedge]

marriage with ceasar is definitely close runner up though

[royal orchid]

who switched "Time for Gear 4!" to "Mini Gear 4!"

[thin quest]

X-Drake is going to come up later in a big way because as far as we know he's the only OP character really interested in outer space. The hobby on his vivre card is astrophysics

[trim lily]

that was a fun week of us losing our minds on if oda is old or not

luffy would never use gear 4 like gear 3

[graceful grove]

his ass should've died in wano

[royal orchid]

oda was so old at the start of elbaf

especially shudders the first chapter

[thin quest]

nah he knows something big and it'll be exciting to learn

[muted hedge]

X-Drake is captain of SWORD ain't he

[trim lily]

yeah

[royal orchid]

yep

[trim lily]

apparently

[muted hedge]

i wonder who is the headhoncho

[thin quest]

Garp

[trim lily]

well thats him

[thin quest]

obviously

[graceful grove]

no one is listening to him

[red lagoon]

U can say u want to see g4 and the rest more but all the times we seen Luffy use g5 except the snake and maybe Lucci are valid times Luffy has used g5

[muted hedge]

really?

[graceful grove]

Helmeppo should be the leader of sword

[dark nymph]

Urouge will be in the good supernovas club along with Bonney, Bege, and Killer 🙏

[thin quest]

I think it makes a lot of sense especially since Koby is a member now

[trim lily]

not officially but garp basically serves as their higher up rep

but on paper garp is still a vice admiral and hero of the marines

[hot cairn]

nah law is for shit and giggles (I also dont want him on laughtale with the crew)

[sturdy steeple]

I thought about going piece by piece about you want but I'll just focus on this message. Because what makes G4 irrelevant and other forms (that are still currently used btw) is the idea of G5 being SUPERIOR to them. Is that not true? Answer this.

[muted hedge]

i thought more so about Sengoku maybe, either him or like Fujitora

[hot cairn]

he's coming back

[muted hedge]

Garp doesn't feel like the type who'd become the headhoncho for something like this

[dark nymph]

fuck I hope not

[trim lily]

well we saw garp head out with them to go to hachinosu

[thin quest]

Lodestar is one of the moons that orbits the blue planet and they'll need Drake's help to get there

[trim lily]

and he tends to rebel against the marines/wg

sengoku is too much of a legal shrewd to have headed sword

[ornate tartan]

lodestar is gonna be an amazing arc

[muted hedge]

that wasn't because he was the headhoncho though

[graceful grove]

law can learn the secrets with the rest of the world through news. he don't need to invite himself to LT party

[ornate tartan]

a island which we have no idea about

[deep chasm]

No keeper. Its irrelevant because theyre barely used for relevant things. G4 was stronger than g2/g3, that didnt mean g2/g3 were now irrelevant. Before jumping to another point, can you acknowledge that a form being stronger doesnt mean the weaker forms must not be irrelevant?

[ornate tartan]

exciting stuff

[hot cairn]

cook

[trim lily]

yeah like i said, not officially

i dont think they have one other than drake

[hot cairn]

nuh uh he's the leader of sword

[muted hedge]

so weird

[graceful grove]

fuck the sword

[dark nymph]

I need about 5 more years to start missing Law

[knotty pilot]

what about kidd

[hot cairn]

garp is retired

[ornate tartan]

lodestar was hidden in wano, the way it looks at least

[dark nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-reacts-flight-yikes-flight-meme-gif-12822158462297009384

[ornate tartan]

do yall think lodestar has residents or people who live there

[graceful grove]

garp is dead, hopefully.

[red lagoon]

The difference is tho g2 g3 and g4 we’re all different g5 can literally do the same thing they all do

[trim lily]

wasnt he famously not allowed to retire

[thin quest]

people really out here dismissing the captain of the most important organization in the Marines and how important vivre card info is, not us 💅🏻

[muted hedge]

Shanks base

[hot cairn]

true

[dark nymph]

jokes aside, I do hope he comes back, there's potential for him to be likable if he does

[graceful grove]

maybe but its probably where BB v Luffy fight will go down

[hot cairn]

nah Kong said he retired post war