also-manga

[graceful grove]

his mod form keeps getting lost

[prisma idol]

I looked at it, and they are just debating with a bit of agenda sprinkled in, its not like old school debates without some name throwing happening but whag they are doing is fine

[graceful grove]

i think one of the mods is eating them

[ornate tartan]

chapter week 😎

[wise vector]

Holy knights arent fraud the straw hats just got strong enough

[prisma yacht]

Krome

Garling is on

[prisma idol]

If it was nothing but name calling i would step in but it isnt

[prisma yacht]

His fuckass head is so weird

[dapper tree]

they can have good fights against people like Lindberg and jack and doffy

[frosty oasis]

Crescent moon shaped

[wise vector]

The real fraud is ussop which miraculously survived egghead and wano

I still dont know how

[ornate tartan]

2 hours ago they were talking about koby lol

[wise vector]

Koby is gay af for leaving the marine

[ornate tartan]

then i come back and see they still arguing

[graceful grove]

nepo armor

[prisma yacht]

have u ever thought maybe it's because he isn't a fraud

[ashen perch]

idk I am too sleepy for this atm

[prisma idol]

I mean is that different from during wano the 5 hours of constant Akainu vs WB debate?

[ashen perch]

I feel like I am forgetting my own ideas

[wise vector]

Kobe should have never left the marîe

[ashen perch]

I will see if I need to add anything else later

[wise vector]

Wasnt his whole dream becoming a amiral

Why punk ass left to join the swords

Kobe is gay

[clear rose]

"left" the marines?

[wise vector]

Swords is not marines no

[prisma idol]

Sword is still the marines

[ashen perch]

they are still marines lol

[thick mango]

sabo? you think the revos are coming?

[prisma idol]

No

[ashen perch]

yeah

[thick mango]

[clear rose]

its just a special branch that kinda does their own thing but it is the marines, and he can very much still become an admiral later

[wise vector]

Ifw the crow guy from the revos heavy

[ashen perch]

check this out, I explained before

[wise vector]

Very cool design

[prisma yacht]

[graceful grove]

mine from jan last year

[wise vector]

The one piece is Lili's rejection letter to Saint Cucklord Imu which can change the world because you black mail him

[prisma yacht]

New prison break

[graceful grove]

doffy will be free

soon

[graceful grove]

oda screwed me with the shiki switch

it was meant to be BB

[prisma yacht]

Why is there a cut on urouge in heaven realm

[ashen perch]

true, true, kinda true, true, true
true, false, true, true, false
true, false, false, false, true
false, true, true, false, false
false, true, true, false, false

I hate editing on mobile, sorry 😭

[ashen perch]

why are we not getting Brook's flashback here

[prisma yacht]

Check my bio

[prisma idol]

I think it should be saved for a later arc and that we should be left to ruminating on it personally. It also doesnt feel like it belongs here in this arc even if the HKs are here

[thick mango]

lol careful itchy trigger finger muting people on that

[graceful grove]

i see enough wins there and there is still hope for several false as of rn ones xd

[ashen perch]

I just can't see it lol, there's been the classic flashback teases for it this arc

[frosty oasis]

You’re finished!

[urban lodge]

It's crazy how bad these scam accounts are getting

[prisma yacht]

Oh no

[frosty oasis]

Yeah there’s been a lot today too

[ashen perch]

all the usual indicators of an imminent flashback for Brook have been fulfilled

[prisma yacht]

I think they were waiting for glex to retire

[graceful grove]

did u add kuma loosing df so 6head can get the fruit?

[frosty oasis]

He did say that

[ashen perch]

Oda's not about to save it for later, certainly not as late as the final war

[ashen perch]

yeah

[graceful grove]

i swear

[ashen perch]

but also

[urban lodge]

I think there are too many parallels between Loki and Gunko for it not to be resolved this arc

[graceful grove]

ill be ok with it if kuma actually dies

[ashen perch]

look at the hands...

[ashen perch]

and Brook and his mentor with Luffy and Shanks is another one brewing up

[thick mango]

is this like teeth counting?

[ashen perch]

or well not quite confirmed to be his mentor

[glass plume]

Everyone has voted for Kuma at least once, right?

[ashen perch]

but the man he owed everything to atleast

[graceful grove]

i hope not. last teeth counter got lulucia'd

[ashen perch]

Kuma's always drawn with the paw print on his hand, this is the only instance of him not having it

[glass plume]

He has it, it's just worn out by the wounds

[graceful grove]

unfortunaely no. no votes for any dudes this time

[glass plume]

you see it here.

[ashen perch]

not how it works lol

brach, there is nothing

its a regular ass hand

[prisma yacht]

Fuck I think I overdid garling's moustache

[glass plume]

No, I swear it's the paw print

[ashen perch]

its literally regular shading lol

[graceful grove]

bonney can have a vote though

[ashen perch]

yes, its not there

[glass plume]

What the fuck

Oda must forgotten

[ashen perch]

its the volume release

it still wasnt fixed

[pulsar path]

Smh

[graceful grove]

company wide dementia

[pulsar path]

Oda slippin

[ashen perch]

there was nothing to fix

thats why

[pulsar path]

First this and usopp

[glass plume]

A fruit can't just phase out from his body, like that right?

Or is this him dying

[ashen perch]

also nothing to fix

[graceful grove]

oda pulling bs

hopefully its nothing

[ashen perch]

I think its this

remember, VP installed a shutdown switch on Kuma

[pulsar path]

I'm actually curious about the raws now

[ashen perch]

he should be in a vegetative state

[glass plume]

[ashen perch]

but VP indicates that its THAT THING

that makes the buccaneers special

that is allowing Kuma to move

so I think he is virtually dead, he lost his DF when he died, but the buccaneers have got a special second life thing going on

[wraith mantle]

https://x.com/marcograndfleet/status/2043341098739777981

𝐌𝐚𝐫𝐜𝐨 (@MarcoGrandFleet)

Ngl Toei animation should've just skipped the first 3 chapters of Elbaph😭

X · Apr 12, 2026, 2:50 PM

[ashen perch]

Oda's the real vaguepost king

[glass plume]

Edging us like always Oda

[prisma idol]

Is this volume scans

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[warm sierra]

what about Kuma's dad then though

[ashen perch]

VP indicates that its something like power of love thats making Kuma move

So thats the difference maker

[prisma yacht]

Holy

[glacial bear]

lmao

[warm sierra]

Legoland reminded me that the tree getting burnt down HAS gotta come up again no?

[thick mango]

i think people are too quick to dismiss legoland

i think there will either be foreshadowing or themes estbalished that we can look back and appreciate in hindsight

just cause were not at that hindsight point yet doesnt mean it doesnt exist\

[glass plume]

I haven't watched the episode yet, is it good?

[prisma yacht]

That smile is so innocent

Makes me want to check it out

[thick mango]

oh i dunno havent seebn im more from a manga perspective

[wraith mantle]

Bro

[trim lily]

legoland is fine

[glass plume]

https://klipy.com/gifs/aegislash-pokemon

[wraith mantle]

Where her organs at

[glass plume]

Ah, I'll check it out

[trim lily]

but given the speed at which the rest of the arc has progressed i feel like we couldve spent more time on actual elbaf than legoland

[thick mango]

i think im gonna go back and watch egghead now that its probably caught up in the dubs

[prisma yacht]

Legoland has Godsopp foreshadowing

Its fire

[urban lodge]

Usopp will get his rematch with Iscat

[prisma yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-shoot-emotiguy-shoot-emoji-shoot-shoot-shut-it-gif-9983659791249040286

[thick mango]

maybe imu will have some monsterous pets

maybe he can like overload the gods knights into monsterous forms on theme with their fruits

[glass plume]

I think his glaive will be called "Anguis" which is latin for Serpent

[thick mango]

thatd be cool id like to see that

[thick mango]

it definitely will have a name and thats as good a guess as any id say

[prisma yacht]

devils devil fruit

[thick mango]

I want sommers to be a thorn elemental and I want killingham to be an overgrown monsterous form of his dragon horse kirin thin

[prisma idol]

Imu doesnt have that

[prisma yacht]

imu has blood lugia

Wait

It said imu has devil's fruit

[thick mango]

i think imu has a massive catalog of powers or every power. maybe every power except nika and darkness logia

[prisma yacht]

Wdym bluko

[glass plume]

I do too

[warm sierra]

its not devil's devil fruit its the devil's fruit is what they mean I assume

[glass plume]

Ability: Devil's Fruit

[prisma yacht]

[ashen perch]

Their name is "Gorosei"

[thick mango]

but if the gk and the gorosei are on teh same pact level why not gk too

[trim lily]

the knights and gorosei arent on the same level

[glass plume]

Gorosei are abyssal covenants

[prisma idol]

I dont think its a fruit

[thick mango]

i thought imu has 13 at the top level and its like the 5 gorosei + the 8 knights

[trim lily]

the gorosei (and gunko) get no aging

the knights do age

[prisma yacht]

It says fruit

[prisma idol]

I think Imu's ability is what the DF concept is based on. The ability to grant others powers by partaking in the "devil's fruit"

[ashen perch]

I don't think the HKs can get a devil power anyways, they have their fruits already

[glass plume]

Ability: Devil's Fruit might just mean what Big News said, that they have the power of any devil fruit imaginable.

[prisma idol]

Dont take it as a literal

[ashen perch]

Like Jabra said back in Water 7

[trim lily]

well there is shamrock...

[prisma idol]

Take it as the name of the power

[trim lily]

but i guess thats by technicality

[prisma yacht]

Cool

[ashen perch]

The two devils will fight each other and cause your body to explode

[prisma yacht]

That can still be a fruit tho

Just saying

[ashen perch]

Yeah Shamrock just has a sword

[glass plume]

Definitely has his own power too

[urban lodge]

I don't think it's a literal fruit

[prisma idol]

The reason I am of this belief is one the odd naming scheme given to Imu's ability, but 2 the facts that the Horosei also dont have fruit names

[glass plume]

I think Imu was born with the Devil's Fruit

[urban lodge]

It's a metaphor for an ability granted by the devil

[ashen perch]

Oh yea, I mean its not his own secondary devil power

[prisma idol]

They partook in imu's fruit, the actual devil's fruit, by taking the contracts and got power in return

[graceful grove]

what if BB found a way for the 2 devils to make love instead of fighting? make love not war secret to having 2 DF in you

[trim lily]

its fair to assume imu can hand out devil fruit-like abilities, seperate to dfs

[ashen perch]

I don't think the Gorosei can eat DFs, and I don't think the HKs can get their type of monster forms

[ashen perch]

Sure

[trim lily]

the gorosei effectively have mythical zoans, just by another avenue

[prisma idol]

Which is why Garling doesnt seem to have one

[trim lily]

though it still doesnt explain the white and black awakening clouds

[ashen perch]

He'll get the fenrir soon atleast

[warm sierra]

Seems kinda inconvenient that if Garling ever decided to eat a fruit during his time as GK he couldnt have become the saturn replacement idk

[prisma idol]

And Shamrock as well, his fruit was given to his sword

[trim lily]

i would assume the black clouds are because of imu but then why the hell do lucci and kaku have them lmao

[prisma yacht]

Garling's pact got upgraded

If he didn't have a df

[ashen perch]

Well luckily for him, he probably did not

[prisma yacht]

We are going to see a yokai form

[warm sierra]

well yeah but I mean for the logic of the system lol

[prisma idol]

Yes

[graceful grove]

esthetics. bad guy = black cloud

[ashen perch]

Maybe Garling's sword had a mythical form though

Wouldn't be surprised

[prisma idol]

Also I think imu's possession of the HKs is similar to DR

[trim lily]

killingham is a good guy then

[graceful grove]

yes

[ashen perch]

Anyone with a sword is not allowed to actually use their sword normally

That's how it is

[graceful grove]

he is misunderstood

[dense rapids]

Elbaph is the top of the ancient kingdom

[prisma idol]

We see supposedly demons exiting the DR giants bodies when they get smacked by Chopper

[ashen perch]

(Unless you're Zoro or Mihawk)

[prisma idol]

I think DR works by flipping the person and getting a demon to possess their body

[ashen perch]

Jabra was so right

[prisma yacht]

Uhhh

[ashen perch]

They were calling him an idiot in Enies Lobby smh

[prisma idol]

This also would work for the DR doesnt work on DF users idea

[ashen perch]

They just did not see Jabra's vision

As a theorist, I feel bad for him

[warm sierra]

how nice of Imu for his powers to just not work instead of exploding the df users

[dense rapids]

Trust the process

[prisma yacht]

[prisma idol]

No

[ashen perch]

He's right about it being a clear Elbaf reference though

[dense rapids]

First appeared during little garden

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[dense rapids]

Dorry and Broggy also went there in OP Party

[ashen perch]

Its very very obvious

[trim lily]

imu is evil but he isnt a killer

(except for when he does)

[dense rapids]

There’s more stuff I found but too deep in the camera roll

[ashen perch]

Oda loves doing this type of stuff, he's like that guy who cant hold a secret

[urban lodge]

He makes other people/things do the killing for him so is he really responsible?

[ashen perch]

He just has to slightly hint at everything

[dense rapids]

That bottom part is what the flooded part of Elbaph looks like

[trim lily]

well imu did kill a few people themself

[dense rapids]

The warland kingdom

That’s why they distinguish the two

Why even say that?

[warm sierra]

I mean the bottom part is because of the culture shift not because warland is sunken or whatever

[dense rapids]

Because Warland is the name of the Ancient Kingdom

The name was erased from everyone except the older people

[trim lily]

the region/kingdom is called warland and the island itself is elbaf

[dense rapids]

And they refer to the kingdom as Elbaph

“Most simplify it”

Also I think the correct translation is “Immense Kingdom”

Which is what Elbaph is described as

[ashen perch]

Elders will know the truth, and they are in Heaven Realm

[dense rapids]

Because everything is so large

[ashen perch]

Jarul already hinted at it too

[trim lily]

oh the elders are in the heaven realm too

[ashen perch]

Well yeah

[prisma idol]

How I view imu currently, its just ny idea/theory on how it all works:

Imu is an actual devil, how he gets the Nerona name I do not know but I do think he has literal connections to "hell" in a sense.

Imu's ability "the devil's fruit" is not a literal DF but more a metaphorical name for how his ability works. Using the abyss as a way to talk to hell, Imu uses the abyss to create contacts like an actual devil, granting powers and slowly priming bodies for the intake of actual demons. Once you reach the abyssal or Gorosei level, you are deep enough that imu bestows you a power, a power to become an evil being or monster, Yokai. This can be seen as partaking in the Devil's fruit for more wealth, power, fame.

How i view DR working as of right now is that it checks if there is a "demon" in your body, so if you are a df user who already has a "demon/devil" you can't accept what DR is about to give you. Then using a contact and forcing a person to "partake of his fruit" Imu forces pretty much a basic contract and allows a "demon" into the body of the person being DR'd. We can see these demons when Chopper smacks someone DR'd.

Of this I believe that the OG dfs are based on Imu's ability, except instead of the powers being demonic, its based on the dreams of everyday people

[ashen perch]

Nerona could really just be a family of the devils honestly, not a big deal

Well not literally but, maybe a family he made out of Domi Reversid humans

[dense rapids]

Loki foreshadowing

[ashen perch]

If Imu is the devil, he'd need to blend in

[dense rapids]

Dino are called Ryu in one piece

[scenic dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/blackbeard-one-piece-walking-marshall-d-teach-zehaha-gif-26977524

[ashen perch]

Establishing a human family is probably not hard for him

[scenic dirge]

Imu could never

[prisma yacht]

Alright it's done

@ornate tartan

[prisma idol]

BB fans try not to bring up BB when he isnt relevant (impossible)

[ashen perch]

Be fat and ugly? Wow

[dense rapids]

Gigachad vs cuteboy

[ashen perch]

Imu really would never

[prisma idol]

BB fans are the mihawk fans of Final Villain Discussions

[scenic dirge]

Damn have I entered BB fans status now?

[ornate tartan]

yo what’s up

[prisma idol]

No but I have seen this exact scenario too much evan...

[prisma yacht]

Get ready for absolute dogshig

[scenic dirge]

Well I want to be BB fan tf

What more do I have to do

[dense rapids]

Mihawk fans are delusional

BB fans have so much proof it makes Imu fans delusional

[prisma idol]

Evan is a BB larper

[prisma yacht]

I just have to give his chest a touchup

[ornate tartan]

let’s see what you got

[prisma yacht]

Hold up a bit

Evan ur a pogger

You rock

[prisma idol]

Probably not

[dense rapids]

Had Imu fans arguing me 24/7 he wouldn’t have a DF

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-laugh-monkey-ksi-primal-gif-15771937260145199571

[trim lily]

i dont feel like imu would be the type of person to establish a family

[scenic dirge]

Lay off Mihawk fans guys, pick on someone your own size

[trim lily]

anyone of their blood is a threat later

[prisma idol]

Or maybe Imu made a contract with the Abyss and became an actual devil because of it, who Knows

[dense rapids]

Speed laugh meme

[ashen perch]

I don't mean literally, I was thinking they'd just be Domi Reversed Humans

[vital heart]

How tf do you know this for a FACT?

[prisma idol]

I mean, It isnt confirmed

[ashen perch]

That exist to mask Imu's non human identity

[prisma idol]

I never said it was fact meek

[dense rapids]

Akuma no mi

All I need to see

[vital heart]

Uh huh

Oh yeah yeah

ooh na na na 😏

[dense rapids]

The devils fruit

[prisma idol]

Meek please read my first line

Omg

[dense rapids]

Like I was saying for years

[ashen perch]

His ability is Akuma No Mi, it can mean that his ability is producing and giving them out too

[dense rapids]

Was so obvious u had people saying Imu was using magic

[ashen perch]

Which is what I am thinking personally

[prisma idol]

Ability: Akuma no mi

It doesnt follow the usual naming scheme or how oda usually does DF reveals

[prisma yacht]

Magik

[prisma idol]

Wrong series

[prisma yacht]

Doomer

[trim lily]

the cds do hate humans...

or i guess just look down on them

[prisma idol]

I mean Imu does use magic

[dense rapids]

This

[prisma idol]

We see that

[dense rapids]

Yea through the fruit

[prisma idol]

We dont know if its a fruit yet

[dense rapids]

It’s not actual magic

[vale heath]

DMs you pictures of cups that are too close to the edge of a table tbh

[dense rapids]

The abyss = technology

Akuma no mi = the devil powers

[ashen perch]

I like how the Gorosei speak of them, "lifeform"

Its really cool

Nusjuro was talking about humans like "bio response detected! how annoying"

Crazy level of dehumanization

[dense rapids]

Also yea

[prisma idol]

Us when we see recent scams

[dense rapids]

Marianne who has Imu abilities also was the MC of vacation island arc

[prisma yacht]

@ornate tartan

Its done

[vital heart]

whos that

[prisma idol]

Mrs golden week

Fake Fan

[dense rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-marianne-marianne-one-piece-little-garden-baroque-works-gif-5153328004248253629

[prisma idol]

Larper

[ashen perch]

Goldenweek soon btw

After 1181

[trim lily]

she'll be in elbaf

oh wait the break

[ashen perch]

No I mean

Yeah 😭

[prisma yacht]

Do y'all like his chest hair I gave a special touch on it 💅

[dense rapids]

Foreshadowing Imu on Elbaph

[prisma idol]

LMFAO

[trim lily]

who knows

both could happen

[urban lodge]

Btw miss goldenweek goldenweek soon

[vital heart]

how the fuck does she have imu abilities

?

[urban lodge]

Oh snail me

[dense rapids]

Not literally….

[trim lily]

shes just that strong

[prisma idol]

Dont ask, Ive given up on understanding Buggy's mind

[vital heart]

Then wdym

?

[ashen perch]

Hypnosis and mind control

[trim lily]

she basically uses domi reversi before it was cool

[vital heart]

Imu does not have hypnosis

[dense rapids]

This

[vital heart]

Imu has mind control

[dense rapids]

Reversal Black

Or whatever it’s called

Domi Reversi

[vital heart]

?

[ashen perch]

Notice the evolution of abilities at play

[vital heart]

Reversal Black 💀

That shit sounds Chinese.

[ashen perch]

Goldenweek
Sugar
Imu

[dense rapids]

Idk it’s called something like that

I forgot

[ashen perch]

Its from lesser to higher forms of mind control

[trim lily]

eh

[prisma idol]

Imu vs Sugar who wins

[trim lily]

its different kinds rather than evolutions

[trim lily]

sugar

[ashen perch]

Goldenweek is the Sugar of Baroque Works
Sugar is the Imu of Donquixote Pirates

Doflamingo is a cringe Imu larper

[ashen perch]

Trying so hard to recreate

[dense rapids]

First Domi Reversi foreshadow

[trim lily]

imu thinks they goldenweek

[vital heart]

Dont you mean doflamingo pirates not baroque works?

[ashen perch]

Yes

I did mean Donquixote Pirates

[prisma idol]

I need the next chapter

[vital heart]

Don't worry, I got you 😏

[dense rapids]

Dolfamingo was trying to steal Imu

Enel was the one actually trying to become Imu

[dense rapids]

He stole his whole flow

[vital heart]

I'm turning 21 on this upcoming Saturday - you excited?

[trim lily]

i hear chapter fans should keep an eye out for next week 👀

[prisma idol]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-awkward-awkward-dog-staring-dog-patchibana-gif-13086408744970718509

[dense rapids]

Yea we’re getting a cutaway to cross guild vs marines

[vital heart]

?

[ashen perch]

Does that mean you can legally drink now

I'm scared

[trim lily]

having an imu reveal then immediately pivoting would be incredible

and people said i was insane for imu not doing something being a possibility

[dense rapids]

I can see the slander now 🤣🤣🤣

[prisma idol]

Because you are

We arent cutting here

[ashen perch]

Nah there won't be any cutaways, we're in THE Imu volume

[vital heart]

Wait does the volume start on 1179 ?

[dense rapids]

“Oda hype Imu up just to cutaway to Bepo”

[ashen perch]

1178

[dense rapids]

If burn scar appears 1181 there’s gonna be a cutaway soon

[vital heart]

Ah, then 1178 - 1187/1188 will be super Imu centric. I guess the end of the battle will be ~1188/1189

[dense rapids]

Or any of these ongoing chapters

[ashen perch]

Nah

[dark nymph]

cutaways, flashbacks, or any panel without Imu as the main focus = Oda is a fraud

[ashen perch]

Perhaps, perhaps not

[trim lily]

are we ready for egghead timeskip 2

we cut to imu already having beaten everyone after 5 chaps

[dense rapids]

First time offscreen no mi will be used on the Strawhats 🤣

I can’t wait for shanks vs Blackbeard to end like the ace vs Blackbeard chapter

The reactions will be so funny 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[prisma idol]

No dolfius you are falling into the doomposting hell again

[thick mango]

i hope so

[ashen perch]

The battle of Banaro was Kuzan v Garp

[prisma idol]

Honestly if it is like that it would be so fucking boring

Im tired of the constant offscreen BB fights

[dense rapids]

Agreed

[ornate tartan]

yoo

[prisma yacht]

😎

[thick mango]

I want blackbeard to arrange like a 20v1

[dense rapids]

BB off screens aren’t done tho

[prisma yacht]

Did you like the chest hair tho

[dense rapids]

I feel 1-2 more coming

[thick mango]

i want kid and barto helping bb out

and any other enemy shanks has made

[prisma idol]

Barto wouldnt

[dense rapids]

Bro said barto

[prisma idol]

Kidd wouldn't either

[dense rapids]

Blackbeard already has his #1 fan

[ornate tartan]

🤣🐐

[dense rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-caribou-caribou-one-piece-swamp-tongue-out-gif-30545506879782158

[ornate tartan]

my boy @prisma yacht

[thick mango]

barto i can agree is iffy but kid? Shanks revenge is his only thread. Someone offers him shanks revenge hes gonna be like no im too proud i need to impale myself on the rhp for the third time

[prisma yacht]

||rocks slayer 🤫||

[urban lodge]

Caribou will backstab BB because he killed his papa Wang Zhi

[dense rapids]

I could see it

But at the same time

Why is he still giving him the info

[prisma yacht]

Thoughts on his chest hair tho

Krome

[prisma idol]

Yes however I see him as too prideful and the Shanks losses as being to important to him for him to rely on someone else to get it done

[thick mango]

but anyway the reason i like it is i want BB to have similar inspiration/coalition building powers to luffy and id like for him to build a coalition of haters/revenge to help him take down shanks. I dont care about it being a fair fight at all

[prisma idol]

Rats have to work their way up to the top

[ornate tartan]

does he even have it in canon, interesting addition tho

[dense rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/krieg-one-piece-one-piece-krieg-don-krieg-angry-gif-26181486

Bro forgot Won Wrieg is on Hachinosu

[thick mango]

hes not delegating to kid, hes making his own fight against shanks less fair and avntaged

[ornate tartan]

😭😭

[dense rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/imu-imu-speed-imu-ishowspeed-speed-imu-ishowspeed-imu-gif-5082088216306763781

[prisma idol]

BB is inherently different, but he also already has his own coalition, literally all of Hachinosu is a massive group of pirate crews

[dense rapids]

Blackbeard’s fodder is Krieg, Pearl, Gin, and Caribou

He has to do some recruiting 😭

[thick mango]

i dont think bb cares about winning in a 1v1 at all

the only reason bb's crew didnt help against ace was bb didnt think they would be helpful

[dense rapids]

Only time we’ve seen that is vs Ace

And that’s because he knew his crew was too weak

It’ll probably be the same with Shanks

[thick mango]

i dunno i think his crew has come a long way

and shanks is so defined by people he cares about, thats another way for other to help put pressure on any shanks fight

[prisma yacht]

I don't think it's canon tho

[vital heart]

Could be wrong ?

I could be wrong.

[dense rapids]

Imagine if BB captures shanks and garp

Shanks would def give him a W with the CDs

Idk about Garling

If he still loves shanks or not

[ornate tartan]

break week is almost over my friend

cut that out😭😭🤣

[warm sierra]

1 week until sunday chapter

[dense rapids]

Garp and Shanks foreshadowing

Ace denounced Roger

[urban lodge]

Who will be the surprise top 5 next week

[dense rapids]

Shanks will denounce Garling

“GARLING IS YOUR FATHER”

“NO MY FATHER WAS THE KING OF THE PIRATES”

[urban lodge]

Last week it was Lucci, now it's Uta

[dense rapids]

The opposite of what happened in Marineford

Luffy returns the Strawhat to shanks at the execution platform

[spice cairn]

Can Teech spoil that hes my father

[dense rapids]

Forgot about bb

They’re gonna be a lot of parent reveals during the final war 😭

[trim lily]

finally we can find out who rockstar’s parent is

[frigid gulch]

Rocks’ long lost brother’s kid

[dense haven]

ITS CHAPTER WEEK

[dense rapids]

The only thing Bogard has done

[lofty fern]

Considering he's incapable, I doubt it

[lofty fern]

pretty good in LA though

[signal fiber]

I wonder if the Bogard memes reach Oda

[dense haven]

https://klipy.com/gifs/polonyalii-1

[ashen perch]

Watching the opening again and I can't believe ppl are hating on this, its so good

Toei went so light on spoilers here lol, which is pretty funny

Like nothing here is actually hard spoiling the arc, the worst is things that a first time viewer wont even get like the slight glimpse at the mural

[stone terrace]

Heccin wholesome opening

Before the arc gets scary

[ashen perch]

Yupp, its perfect for these first 13 chapters

The shift in tone only happens when Shamrock arrives

[vital heart]

yo dawg

send me the fuckin opening

pls

[ashen perch]

No?

[vital heart]

??

why lol

is it on yt

[ashen perch]

I'm kidding I'll send it

[vital heart]

or do i gotta pirate it still

[dense pike]

yes

[ashen perch]

https://fixupx.com/i/status/2043333441656176853

Pew (@pewpiece)

New onepiece opening

**💬 306 🔁 3.4K ❤️ 22.7K 👁️ 989.1K **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Apr 12, 2026, 2:20 PM

[vital heart]

@ashen perch Am I stupid for expecting to see the Imu design teased in it?

Or at least rocks?

Or at least harald?

[ashen perch]

Extremely

Stupid

This is for the first 13 chapters man

None of them are even appearing this cour

Wait actually, I guess we will see Harald's portrait

[urban lodge]

The background art is incredible in the opening

[ashen perch]

But yea, all that for next cour and the one after

Yeaa, especially the mural part looks so good

Op anime kinda almost always has sick background art tbh

[lofty fern]

Well, the only way Oda could even know his name is Bogard is from the memes, he doesn't actually have an official name

[mighty shell]

i wish one piece ops were more willing to have less generic songs to accompany the visuals

which are always quite nice these days it's just

very rarely do i find them memorable

they're just Shonen Openings

[lofty fern]

Considering their reputation, no. But a little early here. Rocks and Harald will get the next one

[stone terrace]

I feel like this jusst aint true lol

For some sure but op songs feel a lot more out there than typical stuff

[mighty shell]

on the whole? not really

they're some that stand out to me

[lofty fern]

We could get a hint to it. Loki teases Rocks pretty early on, and Harald and Ida are also talked about pretty early

[trim lily]

one piece openings feels pretty normal for the most part

[mighty shell]

they're also not bad

just comparing the aina the end dandadan op to this the music is so much more toned down

[trim lily]

us was probably the most unique one in recent memory

[dense rapids]

Usopp stopped walking in the opening and people think he’s gonna die 😭

[sweet anvil]

What’s stupid is that they have all these chapters in reserve and are doing 1 chapter an episode

[ashen perch]

They really dont lol

Its just a 50 chapters gap right now

Which isn't a lot

[trim lily]

its a decent bit

[mighty shell]

this has always felt reductive to me. like especially in wano sure they were adapting less than a chapter an episode but also oda's own pacing is really really fast

[ashen perch]

We've gone from a gap of 40-ish chapters to 50, that is all.

[trim lily]

theyre only doing half the amount of chapters/episodes this year so they can afford to cover more

[ashen perch]

They kinda are

[trim lily]

i suppose 3 pages more is more

[stone terrace]

1 chapter an episode is a blessing

[ashen perch]

This episode adapted slightly more than a chapter for example, but expecting any more? Silly

[stone terrace]

Do you not know the trenches we've been in

[ashen perch]

Oda takes a lot of breaks

[stone terrace]

😭

[sweet anvil]

They’re doing 26 episodes a year no ?

[ashen perch]

It doesn't exactly allow the anime to jump ahead like the usual seasonal anime would be able to

[trim lily]

well we can say one piece has around 30 chaps a year at minimum

26 eps per year, 1 year of lead time

[ashen perch]

You're looking at 34 chapters v like 48 for the usual manga

Per year

Its a big difference

[stone terrace]

https://preview.redd.it/the-animes-pacing-visualised-list-of-the-average-chapter-to-v0-r0azk2olx9751.png?auto=webp&s=76dba3a705bea1fe2d6387381b789f67a4fa6bcc

Someone should update this

[ashen perch]

Reverie 😭

It was so funny seeing that weekly

[digital spear]

Do people not know any shame counting "Reverie" as an arc btw

[ashen perch]

!toei

[tropic nova]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164971940648321024/588976616634581002/image0.jpg

[ashen perch]

This literally happened

We were screaming at Toei

[sweet anvil]

It’s so insane

[tough dust]

good thing its 1 chapter per ep since egghead

[sweet anvil]

One pieces anime could’ve genuinely surpassed the manga quality wise

[pulsar path]

That's old toei

[sweet anvil]

If we had good pacing

[pulsar path]

Pre digimon databreak or what ever it's called

[ashen perch]

This really does put things into perspective though, handy chart for sure

[pulsar path]

The cats in 3d now

[digital spear]

Is the anima at the flashback

[pulsar path]

https://tenor.com/view/toei-animation-logo-title-sequence-cat-earth-gif-20561765

[pulsar path]

In elbaf?

[digital spear]

Fuckass cat thinks hes puss in boots

[tough dust]

why will u assume that its lol, we just started

[sweet anvil]

We start the flashback first batch of 2027

[pulsar path]

They was in yano

[sweet anvil]

so this time next year

I think

[digital spear]

Sometimes I just like to ask questions that are obviously wrong

[trim lily]

they should skip to the flashback

[urban lodge]

They should skip the flashback

[sweet anvil]

Lmao

[ashen perch]

This cherry pie is so good v it sucks

[tough dust]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-beocord-no-lol-gif-24435520

[stone terrace]

What if next chapter oda skipped to the outcome and its luffy impaled on imus spear and elbaf on fire (for the third time)

[digital spear]

They should d- They should throw a f*cking beach party

[sweet anvil]

The flashback was good

[trim lily]

i mean would you really lose anything if we skip the flashback

maybe a bit of harald lore

[sweet anvil]

The conclusion of god valley was rushed imo

But the flashback was very good

[dense rapids]

[digital spear]

This wouldnt be good but it would be aura so they should do it

[tough dust]

the GV stuff was fine but i loved everything else about the flashback

[trim lily]

shamrock and gunko are in a relationship

just like shanks and buggy

[sweet anvil]

I loved the rocks stuff

[ashen perch]

Imu could really just wrap it up in one chapter on screen too

He doesn't even have to offscreen it

[sweet anvil]

But specifically god valley wasn’t the best

[stone terrace]

GV was whelming

[dense rapids]

[digital spear]

Is Shamcock ok that Imu is using his gf as a vessel

[tough dust]

rocks was cool but i thought harald and loki was much more interesting imo

[sweet anvil]

I can sss why

See

[trim lily]

no thats why he's planning with garlic to take revenge

[wraith mantle]

how did this server react to gear5 spoilers/reveal in the manga?

[ashen perch]

Insane age gap (Gunko is like 90)

[sweet anvil]

Haralds conflict is interesting

[trim lily]

40 and 70 isnt too bad

[digital spear]

They were surprised

[sweet anvil]

But I can’t bring myself to like his character

[ashen perch]

38 and 90 is quite bad idk

[lofty fern]

It's funny, I've seen people say that everyone from Garling to Ju Peter is going to be a traitor...rather than point out the most obvious candidates of all.

[trim lily]

gunko is like 70 not brook age

[wraith mantle]

1044 was released in 2022 March

freakin 4 years ago

this is wild

[upbeat yarrow]

38 to 70 ish, she cant be older than brook

[digital spear]

Whyd you go more accurate for Shamcocks age and just go bonkers for Gunkoos

[trim lily]

also wow shanks is younger than i thought

[ashen perch]

Well

[dense rapids]

Resin

[trim lily]

i keep thinking hes like mid 40s

[digital spear]

Damn it was the world cup back then and now again

[sweet anvil]

Damn

When you say it like that

[ashen perch]

Gunko is probably still 80 though, I don't think she's much younger than Brook

[urban lodge]

The age gap is like the least problematic thing 😭

[wraith mantle]

true!

[digital spear]

Didnt Brook say shes 70

[lofty fern]

Why are we trying to ship Gunko and Sham again?

[trim lily]

dont think so

because of buggy and shanks

[ashen perch]

He said she'd be old no?

[trim lily]

the parallels

[wraith mantle]

people thought he awakend the resin form? lol

[sweet anvil]

Gunko should die

[digital spear]

Because of Shanks x Buggy

[sweet anvil]

But oda won’t do it

[lofty fern]

But that's not a thing either

[trim lily]

[urban lodge]

Yet

[digital spear]

What

[ashen perch]

This was like one guy mostly

[trim lily]

gear 5 caused quite a divide at the time

[sweet anvil]

Oh fr

[trim lily]

though most of the detractors have mostly calmed down or left

[ashen rose]

Shippers have no rules

[lofty fern]

Sham would never take the Great One's girl anyway. That's a one way ticket to death

[wraith mantle]

yeah i can imagine gear 5 being so controversial

[ashen rose]

What do you think "crack ship" is

[trim lily]

anyone opposed to gear 5 was Dealt With

[ashen perch]

It wasn't that controversial really

[digital spear]

Gulp

[sweet anvil]

Wdym dealt with

[digital spear]

[ashen perch]

It was like a 25/75 divide

[lofty fern]

I'm beginning to think you don't think anything is controversial

[digital spear]

No politics

[ashen perch]

What lol

Its true

[sweet anvil]

Wait

[ashen rose]

"oh look, the underdog was secretly the chosen one with a broken ability this entire time"

[sweet anvil]

How long was the rocks harald flashback does anyone know the number

[digital spear]

20

[urban lodge]

Like 20

[ashen rose]

20

[trim lily]

it was moreso the nika pill/fruit retcon than gear 5 itself

[ashen perch]

There wasn't some 50/50 level divide and we don't have to pretend like there was, thats all I meant

[sweet anvil]

So if that flashback was 20

[lofty fern]

It was totaly controversial, some people still hate it

[digital spear]

20 minutes Chapters

[sweet anvil]

How long will the void century one be

[urban lodge]

35

[trim lily]

the actual gear 5 ability/usage controversy was in egghead

[ashen rose]

An entire arc hopefully

[digital spear]

Hopefully 30 at least

[dense rapids]

Really was arguing with people that it’ll be Nika

“No he’s resin”

[vital heart]

swrml?

[dense rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-ishowmeat-funny-laugh-gif-3834932356741800396

[sweet anvil]

I wonder if we’ll get first world lore as well

[grand flower]

Luffy was never an underdog

[ashen perch]

Yes, 25% of the server disliked it

At best

[ashen rose]

Yes he was

[ashen perch]

Pringles

[wraith mantle]

gear 5 has two reasons to make the fandom upset:

1. overly cartoonish, very oriented-towards-kids kinda vibes
2. luffy becoming a very obvious chosen one type character

[ashen rose]

What?

[vital heart]

Oh right

[stone terrace]

Pringles was the man

[urban lodge]

The goat

[vital heart]

Swrml iirc thought it was a literal Sun Logia, not the Sun God. but the literal cosmological body

[digital spear]

The one

[sweet anvil]

Ngl the second one was a problem I had after the hype

[dense rapids]

“THEY ARENT TALKING ABOUT LUFFY THE FRUIT IS ZUNESHA”

[vital heart]

Do you guys remember Swrml?

?

[sweet anvil]

No matter how I try to angle it

[stone terrace]

Vaguely

[trim lily]

i think i was a zunesha believer

[digital spear]

Yes

[lofty fern]

There are others beyond the server.

[vital heart]

Swrml iirc thought it was a literal Sun Logia, not the Sun God. but the literal cosmological body

[grand flower]

Luffy steamrolled the East Blue and up until the Marineford saga, he pulled a miracle if that’s what was needed to win

[dense rapids]

Zunesha truthers were insane🤣🤣🤣🤣

[ashen perch]

Yeah, I was on that idea too lol. Ace parallels and such...

[stone terrace]

I remember he beefed with a mod and got the hammer

[ashen rose]

It was never the "gear 5 being goofy" up until egghead where Luffy was shown laughing the fuck out near Vegapunks corpse

[wraith mantle]

he was always a subtle chosen one, but this one made it glaring and obvious

[grand flower]

Marineford is effective because Luffy was never expected to lose

[sweet anvil]

Luffy just feels like a joyboy reincarnation even though I know he isn’t literally

[ashen perch]

Same can be said about them too.

[digital spear]

Like before or after the reveal

[grand flower]

Luffy has never ever been portrayed as an underdog

[trim lily]

i dont know if luffy had the upper hand in alabasta

[vale heath]

Luffy was explicitely pointed out to be the under dog in Whole Cake

3 times

[sweet anvil]

Voat , legendary sun God fruit , pretty much reincarnation of the first pirate 800 years ago

[ashen rose]

You cannot tell me alabasta was not him being an underdog, he had to actually use more than just raw power to beat crocodile

[lofty fern]

And you have data to back up this 25% number. or just opinion?

[grand flower]

He wasn’t physically weaker then his contemporaries, didnt rack up failures, wasn’t portrayed as lacking in talent

[ashen rose]

Luffy vs katakur

[vital heart]

1043

[digital spear]

Arsal ran a statistic

[wraith mantle]

and joyboy's freakin straw hat lol

[grand flower]

Nope because literal miracles came thru for him twice

[ashen rose]

He was a fucking cockroach this fight

[grand flower]

That went out the window as soon as G4 started putting hands on Katakuri

[sweet anvil]

The chosen one archetype is something I don’t like but the more I think about it considering imus pretty much the devil it feels like it had to happen

[digital spear]

I feel like in that case Luffys powers would just change to fire

[trim lily]

luffy was still losing against katakuri until he figured out how to use future sight

[lofty fern]

Eh, you don't think so? I think most of his opponents very much have the upper hand to start

[wraith mantle]

i dont mind chosen one tropes too much if they are written well

and i think luffy is a well written chosen one

[trim lily]

just because you get the upper hand later doesnt make you not an underdog lmao

[ashen rose]

NOOO?? gear 4 gave him the slight edge, katakuri was dogging him and he kept getting up

[dense haven]

kata let luffy win

[trim lily]

an underdog is someone who is up against greater odds to defeat their enemy

[ashen perch]

What YC said (no I just have a better memory than the fanbase, Gear 5 was loved by the majority of the fanbase and it was impossible to avoid praise and love and sick fanart of it for like a full month on Twitter)

[ashen rose]

Basically almost every arc

[dense rapids]

Nothing will top this day 😭

[digital spear]

Im an overdog

[trim lily]

thats the entire formula of a battle shonen for the most part

or most stories really

[blazing depot]

Yeah I agree Luffy is a well written chosen one since he barely knows about the prophesy and couldn’t give less of a shit about it

[wraith mantle]

!os

[tropic nova]

#other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series #other-series

[lofty fern]

Agreed. I actually enjoy chosen one stories if they're good

[sweet anvil]

Mb forgot

[dense haven]

everybody talks about the underdog but never about the updog

[trim lily]

underrepresented demographic

[ashen rose]

Most shonens I believe

[wraith mantle]

be better

[ashen perch]

Whats updog

[ashen rose]

What's up dog?

[vital heart]

HOLY SHIT

[stone terrace]

1044 wasnt as crazy i think 1045

[trim lily]

nah shonen is too wide a demographic to generalize

[vital heart]

HOLY SHIT

[stone terrace]

Thats where a real divide happened

[ashen perch]

Someone had to

[vital heart]

**KID DIED 100 CHAPTERS AGO 🥀 **

[digital spear]

Haha whats updog

[sweet anvil]

Whether he knows about it doesn’t matter since it’s so apparent as a reader

[stone terrace]

You wither loved it or hated it

[wraith mantle]

!meek

[tropic nova]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/738580480437387264/1446300848891101275/hey_guys.mp4?ex=6934cda1&is=69337c21&hm=9e287afdfe9fa3539ad425d03605119e92c595cbebd4039a9bbce99fb4269eef&

[sweet anvil]

Died ?

[vital heart]

**KID DIED 100 CHAPTERS AGO 🥀 **

[digital spear]

NOOOO

[trim lily]

its crazy what kid did in 1179

[sweet anvil]

He’s coming back bro

The damned one jika

[fringe escarp]

i like the chosen one prophecy in one piece since there isnt a chosen one

[vital heart]

The damned one jika 💀

[fringe escarp]

prophecies in OP are intentionally BS

[grand flower]

If you read Luffy sweep the east blue then paradise and concluded he was an underdog I don’t know what to tell you

[fringe escarp]

they can be true but they just as easily can be false

[sweet anvil]

There isn’t a chosen one ?

[digital spear]

He returned and is now called Nerona Imu one of the 20, creator and king of the World

[grand flower]

“100% success rate against his opponents up until Marineford” is not how an underdog is written but do you

[trim lily]

yes he did quite well in east blue, what about the entire other part of the story

[lofty fern]

Eh, I think that depends on the crowd you surround yourself with. I saw many liked it, many hated it, and some were just bewildered. Simply because most of the people you noticed, liked it, doesn't mean there wasn't also a faction that also hated it, especially when it first appeared

[sweet anvil]

Toki comes from the void century saying that wano will see the dawn and all that shit

[grand flower]

You mean his 100% success rate until Magellan?

[fringe escarp]

he literally suceeded in every single arc with the sole exception of sabaody/marineford

[grand flower]

Like????

[trim lily]

didn’t luffy famously lose to crocodile twice

[fringe escarp]

wdym like

oh you're agreeing LMAO

[sweet anvil]

Then luffy conveniently comes 20 years later like she predicted and frees wano

[grand flower]

Yeah when a character loses overwhelming to someone and then wins because fate decided to bail him out, I think that’s pretty clear theyre not an underdog

[sweet anvil]

Feels like the prophecies are spot on

[trim lily]

alright nevemrind

[lofty fern]

I think it's how he won those battles that makes him the underdog. Not simply that he wins. Most shounen heroes win, but many of them are also underdogs

[digital spear]

Isnt the point that he always starts as an underdog at the start of almost every arc

[fringe escarp]

there's another part of the prophecy that was outright false

[grand flower]

The fact that crocodile got Luffy so good ans Luffy still won REALLY tells the reader “expect Luffy to win”

[fringe escarp]

yeah but that isnt the same as being THE underdog of the entire narrative

[grand flower]

“No matter what, have faith in Luffy, he WILL win” is not an underdog

[sweet anvil]

That he would open wanos borders ?

[trim lily]

i mean duh lmao

you don’t go into a story expecting the protagonist to lose everything

[fringe escarp]

no, that MOMO would open wanos borders BEFORE "joyboy" arrives

[grand flower]

Goku loses all the time

[trim lily]

literally the core of battle shonen is the protagonist is up against great odds and will win regardless

[grand flower]

Naruto is an underdog because he regularly fails and loses

[ornate tartan]

until he runs into garling

[grand flower]

Luffy wins every time

[trim lily]

except for when he doesn’t

[ornate tartan]

no type of plot armor will save u 🌛

[trim lily]

but we ignore those

[lofty fern]

I think we might need to hear your definition of an "underdog" because its not matching mine

[grand flower]

Like when?

[grand flower]

An underdog is expected to lose

[trim lily]

i think we just have a very different idea of what an underdog is

[grand flower]

Who the fuck left Alabasta expecting Luffy to lose

[trim lily]

but he did lose twice

[lofty fern]

Expected by whom? The audience or the people in story?

[sweet anvil]

Fair enough but the fact that toki knew that joyboy would come back again 800 years later kinda underlines the key part of the chosen one bit for me like it was predestined for Luffy to be joyboy and free the world from imus rule

[trim lily]

then won in the end

he was up against great odds, and managed to win it out eventually

[grand flower]

At the MOST that should have told you, OP is a “let’s tune in to see how Luffy wins” story

[grand flower]

Exactly

The fact that crocodile did what he did to Luffy and Luffy still came out on top

[fringe escarp]

the problem is that its such a major part of the prophecy that the GOROSEI were attempting to use it to their advantage and time a strategic invasion of wano the MOMENT zuneisha opened the borders

why do you think zuniesha felt so irrelevant in wano

[grand flower]

That tells you

[ashen perch]

That may apply to you more than me, I was active in enough spaces to get all their perspectives lol. And I didn't say there wasn't a fraction of the base that hated it, just that they were just one quarter of it.

[grand flower]

This is a “let’s see how Luffy wins this arc” story

And that’s not an underdog

[trim lily]

shuron would you say luffy is up against much greater odds every arc

[grand flower]

I’m not defining an underdog that way

[digital spear]

What does this mean

[trim lily]

alright see it’s as i said

[grand flower]

Not with OP because Luffy getting better from the fight is baked into the story

[trim lily]

we have two very different ideas of what an underdog is

[grand flower]

Luffy regularly gets stronger WITHIN the fight

[fringe escarp]

by your definition what has changed?

[grand flower]

That’s a part of why he’s not an underdog

[digital spear]

Underdawg

[trim lily]

i see it is a character who is up against greater odds and generally isn’t expected in the story to win

[grand flower]

Even when Luffy starts off weaker him getting stronger on his way to victory is an established motif of the story

[fringe escarp]

functionally luffy is still objectively speaking the underdog of each respective arc

[trim lily]

someone the audience can root for against a greater foe

[grand flower]

Obviously the audience

[fringe escarp]

then nothing has changed

[sweet anvil]

In this instance I guess you’re right but my main issue is that it feels like luffys path was predestined/prophesised for a guy all about freedom

[ashen perch]

I've not followed the convo but I agree that Luffy's not really the underdog in Alabasta

[sweet anvil]

Maybe I’m misinterpreting it though

[fringe escarp]

theres one other massive part i didn't mention about the prophecy that also didnt come true

[grand flower]

The problem is that OP has already conditioned us to expect Luffy to surpass his foes by the end of the fight even if we know they start off superior

Luffy being an underdog is about expectations

[lofty fern]

You might be alone in that then...I'm not sure what to tell you. Luffy's expected to lose most times in story, because he's a young upstart who is seemingly much weaker than his opponents, who loses over and over again and by sheer grit, determination, and shounen powers, he's able to win the day. That's what I call an underdog.

[fringe escarp]

in both wano and egghead oda has attempted to hammer into our heads one massive truth that changes the way you view wano's ending

[grand flower]

And he doesn’t fit any of the expectations of an underdog

[grand flower]

If you expect Luffy to lose you’re delusional

[fringe escarp]

that being luffy ISNT joyboy

joyboy is dead

[trim lily]

from a meta perspective, no it’s unlikely luffy will lose

[fringe escarp]

that was the ultimate conclusion to the luffy = joyboy debate in the story

emeth made that abundantly clear

[grand flower]

You have to be truly horrible at pattern recognition to make it through luffys numerous sweeps and think “oh yeah this time he REALLY is gonna be too weak”

[trim lily]

but in universe and from a writing perspective it’s set up so it’s unclear if luffy can win against such a great foe

that’s literally the core of writing a battle shonen

[lofty fern]

huh... there is the fact that the audiences is jaded these days by tropes, so there's a meta element. Everyone knows the underdog wins in the end, that's what makes him an underdog and not a plain loser.

[fringe escarp]

again how has this changed

[glacial bear]

I think Luffy will surprise Imu

[grand flower]

It’s never unclear if Luffy is gonna win

We know he will

[trim lily]

im not arguing it is

[grand flower]

We tune in to see how it’ll happen this time around

[glacial bear]

To contrast the God Valley flashback

[grand flower]

That’s why he’s not an underdog

[fringe escarp]

oh then this convo is pointless it means nothing

[trim lily]

correct

[fringe escarp]

bruh

[grand flower]

The story never actually asks you to expect Luffy to lose

That’s why marineford is so effective

[digital spear]

Well then each villain is more stupid than the last because they always underestimate Luffy

[lofty fern]

No one expects the underdog to ultimately lose, then there's no point to being the underdog

[trim lily]

shuron is trying to argue luffy is not or has never been an underdog

[ashen perch]

We absolutely do not head into Alabasta with the expectation that he's going to lose, even the crew literally says so when that first round begins

Then comes a bit of a reality check for Luffy, but even that doesn't position him into the underdog role, it just acts as the reminder that this is serious business now. It acts as his motivation to fight and overcome his humiliation.

[grand flower]

Law explicitly calls Dofy out for this

[fringe escarp]

luffy is the underdog from the perspective of everyone that isnt a strawhat

[glacial bear]

Shuron is the GOAT

[digital spear]

Honestly it still doesnt make sense for me that Doffy was like that too

[glacial bear]

And I agree with what the GOAT says

[fringe escarp]

this is undeniable

[digital spear]

Luffy is an indog he has that dawg in him 🔥

[fringe escarp]

ppl consistently underrate luffy's potential in the story

[trim lily]

luffy got that down dog

[digital spear]

reddit dog

[trim lily]

updogs to the left

[lofty fern]

I think the problem is that shuron is talking about the audience, that in order to be a true underdog, WE the readers have to expect him to lose. Which makes no sense

[fringe escarp]

from a audience standpoint thats a different story

[digital spear]

https://tenor.com/view/butta-dawg-dog-with-the-butta-butta-dog-i-put-the-butter-on-him-the-dog-with-the-butter-butter-dog-gif-19244197

[ashen perch]

Did Doflamingo underestimate Luffy? He only overestimates himself in comparison

[sweet anvil]

He’s inherited his will to the tee and even though I understand he isn’t joyboy my point is he’s already been prophesied to overturn imus rule as the sun God 800 years prior for Luffy who’s all about freedom do you understand why this wouldn’t sit right win me

[ashen perch]

But he does recognize his threat

[trim lily]

ideally the audience shouldn’t expect the protagonist to always win, unless it’s the kind of story with a wish fulfillment op protag

[fringe escarp]

from the perspective of the prophecy it absolutely matters whether or not luffy is considered joyboy

[grand flower]

Being an underdog means the story hasnt given you any reason to have faith in their victory

That’s never the case for Luffy

[fringe escarp]

because it changes what it actually means for luffys journey going forward

[glacial bear]

I ALWAYS have faith IN MONKEY D LUFFY AND IMU NERONA IS NOTHING BUT A COWARD

[fringe escarp]

whole cake island puts it perfectly

[grand flower]

Law calls him out for tracking Luffy and still believing he can’t possibly win

[lofty fern]

The point of an underdog is to watch them struggle and fight their way past the odds in order to win. You never expect them to actually lose. You know you're reading a story, that's just how stories go.

[glacial bear]

EVEN USOPP IS MORE BRAVE THAN IMU

[fringe escarp]

the future isn't set in stone

[glacial bear]

Luffy will come in clutch

[trim lily]

suspension of disbelief and all that

[fringe escarp]

everyone has the will to change their fate

[glacial bear]

Never again will a crew mate die

Or be in danger

[digital spear]

I guess its mostly in the end where he finds Gear 4 silly

[fringe escarp]

and this is far from metaphorical because the main power up in whole cake outside of snakeman IS future sight

[ashen perch]

Yeah I'll disagree with that, the idea at play with him often is that he really does have odds that should be insurmountable against him, but there's always some miracles pulling him out

[lofty fern]

It just seems silly to think that a person's not an underdog simply because the audience knows he will win in the end

[fringe escarp]

if prophecies were truly set in stone then future sight is a worthless ability

[ashen perch]

Now, we as the readers recognize the potential for those miracles, but it doesn't make Luffy any less of an underdog

[fringe escarp]

prophecies in general are pointless in the story of one piece

[trim lily]

yeah this is the case for most adventure or action narratives

[ashen perch]

Can you blame him

[grand flower]

We have to have a lack of faith in their victory

[fringe escarp]

future sight works as a ability because it directly allows you to change your future

[digital spear]

Wouldnt that be how those prophecies were made in the first place

[ashen perch]

Gear 4 is absurd lol

[fringe escarp]

read one message above

[digital spear]

Well yeah I can hes wearing a flamingo coat and hottie leggings

[ashen perch]

That's called aura, you wouldn't get it smh

[fringe escarp]

prophecies are only valuable to the ppl who intend to change it

[digital spear]

Aura

[fringe escarp]

because merely knowing about the future has already set in motion change

[lofty fern]

I think even there, just the meta knowledge of what kind of story we're reading is going to hamper that. The author can do a good job making things seem insurmountable, but in the back of our heads we still know how the story ends.

[sweet anvil]

I actually agree with you but I think whilst it may not be set in stone the premise as a whole is right it may have said incorrect details but the main premise is the same the inheritor of joyboys will 800 years later will liberate the world

[glacial bear]

I hope we see Imu’s grimoire again. Because if not. Then what a shame

[trim lily]

bit of a shame how little of imuko in action we got

[glacial bear]

Bro is NOT READING ALLAT

[fringe escarp]

prophecies have to be objectively correct for them to be valid

[glacial bear]

I mean it’s Lunko so it’s understandable. Wommers on the other hand…

[fringe escarp]

momonosuke knew about the prophecy

momonosuke knew that his father wanted him to follow it

[grand flower]

To be very specific

I think luffys win streak starts too early and is maintained for too long for any persons investment in his character to be “an underdog” to the point that that’s why G5 bothers them

[fringe escarp]

JOYBOY sent zuniesha to wano for it to be fufilled

and momo denied it

[glacial bear]

Hmm. Is Emeth still alive?

[fringe escarp]

zuniesha coming to wano was quite literally worthless and that's the point

[glacial bear]

If not. Zunesha should die ngl

[trim lily]

very dead i believe

[glacial bear]

Can we KILL all of Joyboy’s homies

[grand flower]

That’s my point. Knowing the pattern of the story IS relevant to if a character is an underdog

[digital spear]

-Imu

[urban lodge]

Dw Garling is repairing him as we speak and we will get evil Emet

[fringe escarp]

from that point on prophecies are just a guess

it relies on the idea that luffy is joyboy, something that has been constantly spammed to us is not true, not just in terms of literal identity but in terms of their desires and goals

[digital spear]

Holy shit Garling is Gendou and he tells Shamji to get in Emeth

[sweet anvil]

If the prophecy was right about a detail then is that detail not prophesied, whilst the other details didn’t follow the prophecy the main premise of it is still right , the inheritor of joyboys will, will liberate the world

[sweet anvil]

Doesn’t it rely on the inheritance of joyboys will ?

[fringe escarp]

no it relies on the identity of the person

[sweet anvil]

I had the idea zunesha had a misinterpretation

[fringe escarp]

you're correct, just the wrong context

[sweet anvil]

Thinking that joyboy would return himself rather than the inheritor

[fringe escarp]

zuniesha didn't think joyboy would return, but in the moment luffy awakened he believed he did

emphasis on IN THE MOMENT

because in 1044 when momo asks zuniesha to clarify if he meant luffy, he doesnt respond

...until 1046