also-manga

[grand flower]

Ace defeated Hanafuda the same year he went to Wano and told Yamato that Kid was making a name for himself

[distant vine]

Really hurt me when Oda confirmed he died

[grand flower]

Oda’s SBS answer is that Hanafuda died the same year he lost to Ace

[distant vine]

But on the bright side, people told me the Warlord Ace beat would never get touched on again

[blazing depot]

Also check out these novellas they are super underrated

[distant vine]

And they were wrong

[grand flower]

Would never get WHAT

[blazing depot]

Isuka is my glup shitto

[rustic coral]

you either die a legend or live long enough to see your theory/idea/curiosity become a SBS answer

[distant vine]

Unlike the other theorycrafters my theory would have actual merit as a story too

[blazing depot]

SBS is for serious lore inquiries like this

[warm sierra]

there is neither a question nor an answer here

[distant vine]

"The World Goverment keeps one secret final Warlord to guard the final Poneglyph leading to the One Piece."

[blazing depot]

He made a STATEMENT

He stood on business

[rustic coral]

You called me crazy when I mentioned CoC storage...

[iron oriole]

understandable tbf

[distant vine]

I did?

[rustic coral]

I made the theory of Zoro's CoC coming from Oden's sword

Also Kuina's

[warm sierra]

ex WG man is still the most sound for burn scar man for me. We dont have enough WG defectors in the story

[distant vine]

Ok yeah ofc Id shout it down if you pitch it like that

😭

[blazing depot]

Shiryu’s dumbass headcanon

[rustic coral]

Then Joyboy's buried CoC in Emmet saved the day...

[blazing depot]

Yea man he’s a government guy cuz the world government is fucked up man

[iron oriole]

Shiryu's theory makes sense until you think about it & realise they'd just keep it hidden at Marijoa

[warm sierra]

the bit you are supposed to take from it is that they are a WG man not that they are still with them

[rustic coral]

well he would know

[blazing depot]

He was a 9-5 prison warden before this

[warm sierra]

bro saying it like hes innocent

[blazing depot]

Not even warden the head jailer

[manic atlas]

shiryu's a dumbass

he should let laffitte do the thinking

[rustic coral]

lafeet

[manic atlas]

i bet lafitte weak asl, he's probably nami level

[iron oriole]

mr "hawkeye" couldn't even see Laffitte coming

[wraith mantle]

https://x.com/maxchhumbert/status/2041293404710068568

✧mAxch✧ (@maxchhumbert)

And without effects

X · Apr 6, 2026, 11:14 PM

[manic atlas]

is that a mohawk downscale or laffite upscale? we still dont know if laffite is useful in battle

[iron oriole]

both

[blazing glen]

Laffite's power is to be so underwhelming in power that he doesn't register to people.

[iron oriole]

he quite literally flies under the radar

[manic atlas]

bro's walking around like a normal civilian, real NPC shit

[iron oriole]

meanwhile he's out there on solo missions, keeping tabs on the Revs & starting something to do with them & the barricade on supplies

[warm sierra]

we still dont know what his df is even though that has been a huge focus for the BB pirates

[iron oriole]

i still hope for Hito Hito no mi, model: Lucifer

[warm sierra]

also I guess he was the only original member to already have a fruit before the timeskip other than blackbeard?

[fast pagoda]

Laffite has always been the coolest BBP

[iron oriole]

most likely yeah

[blazing glen]

I was a big fan of the reddit post where they white-washed Usopp and said he's got the He-He no Mi: Model Michael.

[iron oriole]

fucking he he no mi

[obtuse perch]

diabolical

[runic dock]

I think it’s for us to wonder about how loosely their connection to the wg might be on the meta level , his theory doesn’t make sense for him , but it’s meant to inform us imo , not saying it’s like some current wg agent , but they could be a former wg employee or defected or even has a family member in the marines or some shit

imo the connection might still be there , just in a completely different way than any of them suggest

[iron oriole]

i did like the idea that it was a former Gorosei somehow

[runic dock]

A former gorosei would be unprecedented, I’d assume that means instant death

[warm sierra]

they would also be under imu's control bc of the contract

[runic dock]

But then why would imu keep the contract , he would just snap his fingers and melt them like Saturn

It would have to be some crazy shit they pulled

[iron oriole]

yeah same, i just liked the idea because of how Saturn died (being burned to nothing) could be a way to get the burn scar but idk how they'd actually survive

[runic dock]

If that happened it would have been some insane miracle feat that severed the connection right when they began melting , or maybe haki is the answer again lol

[ornate tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/egghead-one-piece-saturn-saturn-one-piece-jaygarcia-saturn-gif-6338562306602871242

[iron oriole]

i think if it actually is a former WG man though, it would have to be someone who was fairly high up, around at least Fleet Admiral position i'd say

idt it would be like some random former VA or Captain for example

[runic dock]

Hmmm

A defected celestial maybe, not an HK with a contract

[ornate tartan]

I don’t think it’s a navy man at all

more likely to be what earl said

[warm sierra]

the bit by Sengoku also cant just have been with no meaning

[runic dock]

We had a recent example of a celestial trying to go the opposite way and getting killed for it (mjosgard )

Maybe there is an example of a successful one

That is not doffy like in nature

Like corazon , but completely severed from the wg /navy

Oda been playing around with different concept of a defected celestial dragon or one trying to go the opposite way , what if there was a full on example ? One who has completely and successfully detached and isn’t evil by nature

[iron oriole]

i think a former "Blade of God" would work well, they discover Imu's existence & abandon Marijoa etc & guard a Ponegylph later on

since thats just tier 1 sub like the one Shanks had

[runic dock]

Doffy is too evil , homing too naive , corazon still had a navy connection , mjosgard too weak

What if there was a good strong successful one completely detached

Not shanks because he was born outside the system

[blazing glen]

Isn't that the entire concept behind the 20th first Kings who decided not to join the others?

[runic dock]

The Nefertari family?

[blazing glen]

Yeah

[zinc mortar]

I feel in 5 years every mystery can be seen

[ornate tartan]

I think the roger pirates know exactly who burn scar is

[zinc mortar]

Ep 1 theory whirl pool

[iron oriole]

very good chance

[runic dock]

Yeah , that’s ancient family tho , in modern day vivi and her family would not even be considered celestials , and were born outside the system , what if there is a good example in the present day of someone who was born in the system and strong enough to completely detach

[grand flower]

I’m telling Yall it’s rocks

Why did Roger and Garp both bust out fire moves

[zinc mortar]

Rocks gone long ago

[runic dock]

I wish we could talk about theories more based in realism lol

I just want to accept rocks is dead bro

[grand flower]

Somebody attacked the holy knights and grabbed him

[grand flower]

It’s entirely realistic

[zinc mortar]

Get some sleep

[grand flower]

What’s NOT realistic is the knights let Ray and Gaban take Roger and Garp and just skeddadle

[warm sierra]

he never went to look for his wife and son this entire time?

[grand flower]

Why was Rayleigh hesitant to tell Roger what happened to rocks?

Why did Gaban dodge the question entirely?

[iron oriole]

if Rocks did somehow survive, idt he's the type to go into hiding & then protect a Poneglyph

[ornate tartan]

if u analyze their actions and how they stationed themselves in the beginning of grand line (crocus), right before the new world (rayleigh), and elbaph (gaban), and also doing things like bringing Loki back to Elbaph (shanks) and other things they probably also know about the 4th poneglyph holder

[grand flower]

Why did Garp and Roger both use fire moves when they have no other fire moves in their arsenal?

[grand flower]

He thought he killed them

Rocks had no idea what happened to Teach and Eris

[warm sierra]

Blackbeard has been a super known commodity now though

[grand flower]

I think thinking his wife and child died may have broken his will

[grand flower]

Only in the past 2 years

Rocks could be waiting for him

[zinc mortar]

When the man with burn scar gets revealed What will you do

[grand flower]

We’ve had people waiting for Joy Boy and Nika

Why wouldn’t there be somebody waiting for the next Davy champion

[iron oriole]

to me, looking at the man Rocks is, that would have sent him even more on a warpath.. he now has absolutely nothing to lose

[grand flower]

What if that person is Rocks who gave up in himself after thinking he failed his family

[blazing glen]

If Rocks were alive he would have heard about Teech becoming an Emperor and sought him out.

[grand flower]

It’s not hard to imagine he lost his will after believing his family died

And decided to wait for a successor

Especially because he’d be believing he killed them

[zinc mortar]

I will sleep now

This is so bad theory

[grand flower]

Read the chapter

[iron oriole]

it's harder than imagining him just going on a warpath & destroying everything in his wake until he reached Imu

[ruby cape]

It’s sad that Rocks never came to find out his girl and kid was alive bro

[grand flower]

Aight bro you haven’t engaged with a single piece of my reasoning

[zinc mortar]

and know that rocks slep long ago

[grand flower]

Not if it broke his will

[zinc mortar]

if you were oda's wife I could have believed you

[leaden rivet]

Does Oda’s wife know what the one piece is

[grand rain]

I'm Odas wife's friends daughters sisters cousins coworkers ex husbands mother in laws nephews coworker

[brittle basin]

Does Oda's wife know who Oda is?

[zinc mortar]

Fr

[grand flower]

Y’all haven’t any given good answers for why Ray and Gaban were weird about answering Roger, why the knights let them get away with Roger and Garp, or why Roger and Garp busted out fire moves ONLY for that attack with no other fire moves in their aresenal

[grand rain]

Yeah AMA

[hot cairn]

Damn you’ve been here since 2016

[grand rain]

I'm OG

[zinc mortar]

They couldn't tell roget that rocks is dead as roger cared for him

[brittle basin]

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-a-lot-question-number1-how-dare-you-gif-20546398

[leaden rivet]

Of course Sandman knows who Oda is

[hot cairn]

Fr fr

[grand flower]

No he didn’t

[brittle basin]

Roger was gay for Rocks. prove me wrong

[grand flower]

Okay fair enough

[zinc mortar]

LET'S DO A BET

[leaden rivet]

There are at least 2 people Roger is more gay for than rocks

[blazing glen]

The man with the Burn Scars is Pandaman. He's not actually a panda, he just wears a helmet to hide it.

[zinc mortar]

rocks is dead

[rich hornet]

I can’t, because it’s true

[grand flower]

Sure I bet you 30 bucks

Rocks is Fire Scar

[zinc mortar]

Done

[grand rain]

You might think rocks is dead but actually he's dead

[hot cairn]

woah

[grand flower]

Bet

[hot cairn]

money bets

[grand flower]

Do you have cashapp?

[hot cairn]

(Sharon is losing sadly)

[zinc mortar]

In 5 years we will know

[hot cairn]

might not be that long

[warm sierra]

there are at least 13 years between GV incident and the FMI road poneglyph going missing what did rocks do during this time

[zinc mortar]

You already preparing to send me money

[grand flower]

I don’t think it’ll take all of Elbaph

[leaden rivet]

Oda really is so much better at writing male friendships than heterosexual romance

[grand flower]

I’m preparing to take your money

[leaden rivet]

Is there even a well written one piece relationship

[formal wagon]

vira will be a decade long arc

[zinc mortar]

Alright!

[grand flower]

How would you know

[leaden rivet]

Well it’s a shonen so I suppose they don’t get any attention

[grand rain]

Luffy and his hat

[dense haven]

sai and bb5 maybe?

[brittle basin]

How do you think Garling failed in the execution? Or is this a spirit lingering type of deal with a host body, possibly involving haki?

[zinc mortar]

Imu X ussop

[dense pike]

30 bucks… thats about
2 + 5 + 3

[blazing glen]

Oda has said he wants nothing to do with romance lmao

[leaden rivet]

That one’s not bad I suppose

[iron oriole]

Kuma & Ginny?

[blazing glen]

the only romance is the young boys romance with adventure.

[brittle basin]

Ulti and Page One.

[leaden rivet]

That one’s pretty good but we didn’t get too much on them unfortunately

[zinc mortar]

Imu and ussop

[hot cairn]

???

[leaden rivet]

Unc

[dense haven]

????

[dense pike]

Chiffon and Bege

[hot cairn]

ayo

[warm sierra]

hold on

[blazing glen]

OKAY honestly Sai is the fucking GOAT for how he handled BB5

[leaden rivet]

Bro thinks this is one piece 🙏

[leaden rivet]

Meh

[dark nymph]

sweet home

[dense haven]

alabuffy

[leaden rivet]

I’m so glad no one said Rayleigh and Shakky

[hot cairn]

@grand flower

[dark nymph]

senor pink and russian

[hot cairn]

???????

[iron oriole]

tf Buffy

[hot cairn]

Buffy wtf

they’re siblings

[zinc mortar]

Imu and Ussop

[brittle basin]

She loves him a bit too much

[blazing glen]

He was such a chad for telling Baby 5 she must have lived in a place where no one tried to stop her from being too helpful.

[hot cairn]

dawg

[dense pike]

https://tenor.com/view/anton-chigurh-no-country-for-old-men-coin-flip-call-it-true-gif-8722415756466710272

[hot cairn]

[brittle basin]

Those are bedroom eyes not sisterly eyes.

[iron oriole]

almost like its a classic trope

[dark nymph]

this is worse than when ppl see two guys being bffs and start shipping them

[leaden rivet]

Now that we’ve listed all of the mediocre romantic relationships compare it to the bromances and you can see a stark difference

Oda needs to be a yaoi writer

[brittle basin]

it's the only agenda I have and will gaslight you all

[dense haven]

buffy you a big fan of the folgers ad?

[brittle basin]

hell yeah

calssic

classic*

[formal wagon]

killer double down

[brittle basin]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-jamie-jamie-lannister-got-gif-4434969898224160734

[mighty shell]

can be said about 90% of shonen authors

[leaden rivet]

Roger x Garp? Sanji x Zoro? Mihawk x Shanks? Harald x Rocks? Come on

[grand flower]

If you go back to that scene, we cut away as Garling is seemingly delivering the attack

I think someone else attacked them, maybe Whitebeard, and they took Rocks away in hus injured state

That explains how the pirates managed to just escape without the knights intervening, and why they were so weird with telling Roger what happened

[brittle basin]

going strong since 2022

[leaden rivet]

Some shonen writers can write romances relatively well

[brittle basin]

Current rayleigh loves every girl but shakky

[dense haven]

now I know buffy is a professional artist from alabama its getting easier to doxx him

[leaden rivet]

Oh I forgot Ida and Harald that one was pretty cute

Shame on Buffy for not saying it

[zinc mortar]

Buggyand Shanks

[leaden rivet]

Doesn’t count that’s gay

[iron oriole]

Kureha & Hiriluk too, it wasn't official but we all know...

[grand rain]

Kumachi

[zinc mortar]

Robin and Chopper

[hot cairn]

[dense pike]

What about it makes it not that well written?

[dense haven]

ida and harald was aight but shes too good for harald

[dense haven]

and Im a ida hater

[grand rain]

Luffy and food

[iron oriole]

Ida was way too good for Harald

[zinc mortar]

Dragon and Luffy's mom

[iron oriole]

she didn't deserve to die

i was so upset

[dense haven]

ida got backstabbed and dumped and then harald used her philosophy to bring elbaf to ruins

[zinc mortar]

Mihawk and aura farming

[grand rain]

Dr hogback and Cindry

[iron oriole]

???

[grand rain]

Lmao

[zinc mortar]

1 eye 1 dead

[grand rain]

had to troll for at least a little

[iron oriole]

lmao

[blazing glen]

Ida was a classic example of "I can change him" syndrome.

[iron oriole]

tbf, she did

[blazing glen]

Yes, because it's a story

[leaden rivet]

Trying to change a man is just foolishness and that’s why she’s dead

[dense pike]

true, and she was too good at it

[brittle basin]

Ida and Otohime were both too good for this world

[dense haven]

oh ya also she took care of haralds son despite everything

I hope harold is burning in hell

[ruby cape]

Ida passed away with a smile on her face

[iron oriole]

Ida died because the Giants are a bunch of racists

[leaden rivet]

Ida’s only flaw is that she gave birth to Hajrudin’s bum ass proving the Elbaf elders correct

[blazing glen]

Just because it worked doesn't mean it's a good trope.

[brittle basin]

loki revenge poggers

[ruby cape]

Secret Will of D

[dense haven]

enabled by harold himself

[iron oriole]

literally

[dense haven]

in a way he was responsible for her death

[blazing glen]

Absolutely not.

[dark nymph]

how could harald have prevented that

[brittle basin]

he was blinded by trying to Make Elbaf Great Again

[blazing glen]

No one can blame Ida's death on anything more than classism.

Because that's what it boiled down to.

[iron oriole]

bro was the King, fuck your bs i cant make Ida my wife because Elders say no

[grand flower]

I feel like this may end up being a genuinely touching and heartbreaking story

I’m glad Oda didn’t do the generic ass prediction of “dragon became a revo because his woman got killed by CDs”

[blazing glen]

I hope we get to learn who Luffy's mom is.

[iron oriole]

like genuinely, who was going to actually stop Harald if he just said fuck you, she's my wife

[grand flower]

I love that Dragons motivation was completely strangers being hurt

[brittle basin]

still praying the elders die

[ruby cape]

Harald not being there when Estrid gave birth was funny bro was on the PS5

[leaden rivet]

Well the thing about classism and racism and stuff

Is that like they were right

[blazing glen]

THOUGH I also wouldn't be surprised if it was an Empress of the Kuja Pirates, making Boa Hancock related to Luffy. Would be hilarious.

[leaden rivet]

Hajrudin compared to Loki is night and day

[grand flower]

I don’t think it’s about who would stop him as much as the potential fall out of a ruling monarch undermining a major political branch of the country

[leaden rivet]

Ancient giant blood is that crazy

[warm sierra]

why would that make them related

[ruby cape]

Ida deserved better

[leaden rivet]

Why would you want a scrub like Hajrudin as your king?

[blazing mantle]

Hajrudin has some of that ancient giant blood too

[ruby cape]

[grand flower]

It’s like the president doing a press conference starting with “FUCK what congress just said”

[fluid cedar]

But we didn’t see the true start of the revolutionary army so that case can still be true

[warm sierra]

do you think all of amazon lily is one family?

[blazing mantle]

Couple drops here and there

[grand flower]

It’d cause political unrest

[ruby cape]

Harald shed a tear at the funeral bro fuck dat

[grand flower]

True, I hope not

[blazing mantle]

They’re not all related

[warm sierra]

I know lol

[blazing glen]

Did I misremember Boa Hancock being the daughter of the last empress?

[blazing mantle]

Wdym one family

[brittle basin]

nervous laughter

[dense haven]

yea but harold was working to end their warrior culture so ancient giant wouldn't make a difference in their new age

[warm sierra]

I wasnt posing that as a theoretical I was asking the other person that thought that

[leaden rivet]

Other than Harald being a dumbass, it makes sense to have a strong king even if you’re changing the warrior culture

[dense pike]

In a way, Kuma was responsible for Ginnys death for not being with her when she got kidnapped
in a way, Kyros was responsible for Scarletts death for the same reason
in a way, Cobra was responsible for Titi's death for not sucking up to Wapol so that he could have the ishi 100 save her
in a way, you can spin any death to be the fault of the lover for failing to prevent it

[dense haven]

ending their violence and classism goes hand to hand

[iron oriole]

so what? stand on business, the only ones who would get mad are the Elders & those that think themself superior to Ida

[leaden rivet]

Elbaf needs to be protected

[blazing mantle]

Oh my bad

[leaden rivet]

If Loki wasn’t here and the last line of defense is Hajrudin then what

No point in being silly about these things that are right in your face

[brittle basin]

but imu just arrived. whoops.

[dense haven]

it doesn't make sense because whats the point of having a strong king if your entire nation are pacifists

[brittle basin]

fuuuuuck, anyone got the chapter?

[dark nymph]

yes

[dense haven]

harolds was hell bent on extreme pacifism

[leaden rivet]

Self defense

Strength deters violence

[dense haven]

strength which harold was actively trying to diminish

[iron oriole]

a strong king alone isn't enough

[leaden rivet]

If you want to be a weak pacifist you’ll just be subject to death

[dense haven]

yea thats what he was doing

and succeeded

[leaden rivet]

He’s trying to change the culture not deliberately make everyone weaker

[dense pike]

True. To threaten violence you need to have the capacity for violence, not necessarily the willingness to commit it

[dense haven]

their culture is literally what makes them strong

even then they are bums

trained warriors are bums, imagine without any training

[grand flower]

That’s a really reductive way to look at it that Harald would never be able to lmao that would have been extremely irresponsible of Harald

[formal wagon]

to seven you have to six, not necessarily to eight nine

[iron oriole]

idt it's irresponsible of Harald to demand that the woman he loves is going to be his Queen

[blazing glen]

Harold would have to essentially stage a coup on the elders which would look extremely bad to anyone who saw that when he's preaching about pacifism.

[dense pike]

Harald*

[blazing glen]

I don't care, he's dead.

[dense pike]

i care, stop anglisizing my language

[dense haven]

https://klipy.com/gifs/packwatch-rip-bozo-5

[dense pike]

https://tenor.com/view/viking-man-leaps-ice-water-gif-12813214525354223849

[blazing glen]

Herold.

[grand flower]

It’d be irresponsible to forsake a major part of your country’s political structure as the monarch

[blazing glen]

Heirowhld.

[grand flower]

Harald would be risking civil war and rebellion against the crown

[blazing glen]

Hairohwld

[dense pike]

eh, herald's better, since he did end up a herald of sorts

[wraith mantle]

harald the herald

[grand flower]

It’s not just disrespect to the elders he’s risking

[dense pike]

exactly

[iron oriole]

i really doubt they would have actually rebelled against Harald

[grand flower]

Opening up the gates for sections of your government to be disregarded means Harald woukd bw opening up the gates for himself

[iron oriole]

i feel much more would be on his side too

rather than against him, so even if something did break out it would be quelled easily

[brittle basin]

i think an issue is that Oda didn't really establish the elders as all that important. they didn't get much panel time. I bet they will, however, when we go to the heaven realm.

[grand flower]

If the elders can be forsaken so Harald can do what he wants, why can’t people forsake the crown entirely to do the exact same thing for themselves?

[blazing glen]

The Elders have gotten a lot of panel time

[brittle basin]

i don't remember that

[wraith mantle]

do you think harald would have attacked loki if the gov ordered him to?

yellow buffy is back!

[warm sierra]

elbaf kinda a weird country to have a monarchy in the first place

[iron oriole]

and he's already trying to actively change the ways of Elbaf, him making Ida his Queen could have easily been one of those changes early on

[dense pike]

not the gorosei
they mean the elder giant council

[grand flower]

Like I said, it’d be like the president addressing the country by going “fuck what congress just said”

[blazing glen]

Ooh sory.

[grand flower]

It’s a horribly irresponsible idea

[brittle basin]

yeah the giants i mean

[blazing glen]

Misunderstood.

[grand flower]

It’s addressed why it couldnt

Also

[blazing glen]

Nah, elders make sense. Their whole culture is basically old school norse, so Elders being like, basically higher than kings makes sense.

[grand flower]

It’s not about how much would be against him or not

[blazing glen]

I do agree they don't get much screen time, though

[iron oriole]

its simply just "Elders said no" but he's already trying to change the system, to start with that

[grand flower]

It’s about the fact that he’d be dividing the country regardless

Elbaph has also had history of internal war

We know this

[blazing glen]

Yeah but that's upending an entire belief system, not just political discourse.

[iron oriole]

instead of allowing the woman you love to live essentially outcasted to the lower realms of Elbaf

[grand flower]

So it makes perfect sense when the elders were adamant about not queening Ida, Harald didnr just disregard them

[blazing glen]

Okay but also

Don't forget that Ida was very forward about making sure Harald didn't make a big stink. She didn't really care all that much as long as she was helping the one she loved. Titles didn't matter to her.

So Harald didn't let himself get distracted from working on his dream.

For Ida's sake.

[grand flower]

We know from Estrid and her village that there is still a portion of Elbaph who believe in the ways the Elders wanted to enforce

[formal wagon]

the elders wouldnt have stopped loki

if he were in that situation

[grand flower]

There was a very real risk of splitting Elbaph apart if Harald decided to ignore their decree

[dense pike]

So BM's Loki-marriage plan would not have worked even if Loki had fallen for it

Elbaph would NOT have ben like
"oh word? ig we chill then 😎"

poor confused Linlin 🙂‍↔️

[iron oriole]

Elbaf would have also been like "yes sir Loki sir, whatever you say sir Loki sir"

[warm sierra]

at least the giants surrounding loki being happy for him ended up making sense

[dense pike]

ya think so, or you bein sarcastic? 👀

[iron oriole]

i'm serious, they would have done whatever Loki said out of pure fear

[dense pike]

oooooh fear yeah okay thrn i agree

[ruby cape]

Would Loki rule like a dictatorship?

[dapper tree]

well, like a king

so

yes

[dense pike]

nahh, i think anarchy

vibes based leadership

[wet condor]

If you always follow this logic, then this means as the monarch you can never overrule your cabinet or advisors

[iron oriole]

i think he'd honestly be kinda like BM ruling WCI, fear controls the population but its generally a chill place etc

[dense pike]

i think hed be greedy and ask for whatever he wants when he wants, but he would otherwise leave the people alone and wouldnt bother with oppression and all that

[wet condor]

You are the sovereign. you have more authority than anybody else in the kingdom. Your legitimacy comes from the people, if they feel like you're doing a bad job they'll rebel

[blazing glen]

Loki would absolutely establish a council because there's no way he'd trust himself to not give into his emotions.

[formal wagon]

i really meant like loki wouldnt have let them stop him, unlike harald.

[dense pike]

yeah i could also see that

[grand flower]

I think it depends. For the good of the country? Absolutely. For your personal gain, your love life? That probably wouldn’t fly to well with your citizens who believe in the same traditions as the elders

[dense pike]

thats true

[icy magnet]

does someone here have that imu fallen angel image? can't find it anywhere

[iron oriole]

Harald should have just forbid the Elders from forbidding his marriage

[ruby cape]

Yeah I agree too, Harald’s also pretty much like Umberto I of Italy, and Loki’s the anarchist killing him freeing from oppression

[ruby cape]

Umberto was also killed by an anarchist historically

And he was tryna modernise Italy too at the time

The parallels are significant

[wet condor]

There's a bunch of people who follow Harald too. Elbaph seems like a kingdom composed of several smaller constituencies, where Harald is the king over all of Elbaph but also the strongest and central polity. Those people would still follow him

Is anyone else's discord acting weird

[iron oriole]

you mean acting like discord? yeah

[wet condor]

I swear I sometimes can't see the chat

[iron oriole]

do you have your eyes open? just to make sure

[wet condor]

Like it doesn't update

Yes. Though my vision is admittedly pretty bad

[brittle basin]

https://tenor.com/view/sorpresa-gif-17330134416128259640

[wet condor]

I have to restart discord and then it'll update chat

[iron oriole]

i have that issue on mobile from time to time

[grand flower]

Well the problem is dividing Elbaph into civil conflict whatsoever

It wouldn’t make sense for Harald to risk to stability of Elbaph just so he could get married

They already have a history of civil war

We learned that when they were struck by the winter

[wet condor]

Well, there are monarchs in history who've done it

But sure

[grand flower]

Wouldn’t make sense for Harald

He’s self sacrificing and loves his country

[wet condor]

Harald was also pretty irresponsible for not questioning why there's a man sitting on the throne of the world lol

For a man who loved his country, he was willing to completely uproot their culture

Not that I really doubt that he loved them, I think he's just got his priorities backwards

Going about it the wrong way

[warm sierra]

idk why he would question that, elbaf isnt affiliated with the WG

[grand flower]

I don’t think so tbh

Harald mentions before that he’s seen the WG do a lot of good and a lot of evil

Sengoku and Garp talk about how the WG being so huge means it’s not possible to hold every individual accountable

Also consider this

Harald attacked that cipher pol ship and they still kept giving him opportunities to work with them

[wet condor]

I'm talking about when he went to make Elbaph and member of the WG. You don't think it makes sense for him to question why there's a person sitting on the throne of the world government, which has advertised itself as being a coalition of member nations?

[grand flower]

It makes sense Harald didnr immediately conclude “Guy on throne? Must be evil”

[grand flower]

He did

[wet condor]

I'm talking about actually introspect

[grand flower]

Remember Imu upgraded his mark at that moment

[wet condor]

And consider the possibility that this may not be what he thinks it is?

[grand flower]

Harald talks about feeling a rush of power

I think that knocked the suspicion off hus mind

[wet condor]

I just don't find that acceptable for a guy who's supposed to be ruling over me lol

I wouldn't accept such a king

But maybe some other people would

[grand flower]

But even then, we have enough information from the flashback to see why Harald took it so

Imus reveal just tells him Imu is overseeing the organization he already approved of

[wet condor]

Too gullible

[grand flower]

I don’t think he’s gullible

That would require no reason to believe what he does

No good reason

[wet condor]

So you would do the same thing in the same?

Or you find what he does acceptable?

[grand flower]

From Haralds POV, all that’s happening is that he just found out Imu is overseeing the organization he already approves of

[grand flower]

What do you mean what he does?

Harald didnr know what imu got up to just by seeing him on the throne

[wet condor]

I'd just never want a man like him to rule over me lol

[grand flower]

Harald doesnt know what kind of man imu is

All he knows is imu has been lying about being the king

And I know none of us believes Harald is under the belief that no king ever lies

[wet condor]

The fact the he doesn't do any real introspection about why the world government has effectively lied as being a coalition of nations

[grand flower]

Harald didnr have any reason to assume imu was evil

[wet condor]

Not with what he's seen how the WG functions?

[grand flower]

That’s addressed in the story

[wet condor]

Those slaves ships aren't a reason to question that?

[grand flower]

Harald is under the impression the WG is mostly good with a few bad actors

Remember what I said before

Harald attacked that slave ship

It was in the news

He faced no repercussions or punishments

They kept working with him

It makes sense he took that as, these are some of those bad actors that slip thru the cracks

Also a lot of people in OP are pretty lackadaisical about the existence of slavery

It’s almost weird

[wet condor]

Do you not think it'd be a good idea to at least questions about that? And not to mention the manhunt?

He's just not inquisitive enough for me

[grand flower]

We have no idea if Harald knew about the manhunt so I can’t hold that against him

A good idea? Sure

But it’s like I’ve been saying

We have enough information to understand why Harald in this particular case didjt

[digital spear]

Do we even know if the manhunts still happen

[grand flower]

Harald just didn’t have any info that makes “Imu us evil” the only reasonable conclusion for him

[wet condor]

He's namely obsessed with his goal of uniting Elbaph with other nations to where he never questions anything. Bad king, wouldn't want him to be mine lol

[ruby cape]

It’s a triennial contest so presumably offscreen

Although we only saw GV

[grand flower]

It makes sense why Harald with his experiences and what knowledge he had didnr reach that conclusion

[wet condor]

Maybe not

[grand flower]

Harald didn’t have enough reason to question Inu

[wet condor]

After what happend the last time

[iron oriole]

its honestly a shame how naive Harald actually was

[grand flower]

Imu lying about his existence isn’t enough

Also Harald isn’t naive

Yall use that term wrong every time Yall talk about him

[wet condor]

Well, I know I'm asking htose questions in that situation

[grand flower]

Naivety is when you’re ignorant to the way the worked functions

World*

[wet condor]

So I'm not giving him passes

[grand flower]

Harald wasn’t ignorant to it, the entire world is actively being manipulated and fooled by an 800 year old regime

Naivety is about what you know in comparison to the information that’s available to you

[iron oriole]

being naive is showing a lack of wisdom/experience/judgment etc

[grand flower]

Harald did not have the information available to him to know imu was wvil

[grand flower]

Yes but that requires that standard of, “what SHOULD you know”

Harald had literally zero way of knowing imu was wvil

evil*

Calling Harald naive would require him to have had access to information that blatantly says “Imu is evil”

And for him to fail to reach that conclusion

Harald isn’t naive for falling for the illusion of the WG

They’ve been running this con for literally 8 centuries

Bw pretty damn hard if they didn’t make it you know

Believable to observers lol

Stuff like choosing not to punish Harald for attacking slavers is how they maintain that illusion

[leaden rivet]

You shouldn’t lol. He heard the entire “;don’t concern yourself with these people they have no human rights” spiel and still thought it would be good to work under scum like them

[grand flower]

You guys can only call Harald naive because of what you know as readers

[grand flower]

He attacked those people

Imu and the Elders didjt punish him for it

[iron oriole]

he doesn't need to know that Imu is evil to know that he shouldn't be trusted, he knew enough to question someone sitting on the Empty Throne

[leaden rivet]

Like there’s really no justification for Harald thinking these people are anything but evil. But I honestly don’t blame him too much Music, because he’s between a rock and a hard place and has very limited choice

But he was a bit too jolly I suppose

[grand flower]

But why would this mean Imu can’t be trusted? It can’t just be “Imu has lied” because then you’d have to believe that Harald genuinely thinks no good king has ever lied ever

And that’s just ridiculous

[wet condor]

I'm more irritated by him not sitting down and introspecting

[ruby cape]

I mean if the WG is offering a lifeline it doesn’t really seem like there is much choice when everyone else has been turning their back on your own very race

It’s just tragic visionary

Less on naivety

[digital spear]

Imu is hot af why would Harald question it

[iron oriole]

he even told the Gorosei he plans to abdicate the throne & then had Imu tell him "nah thats up to me to decide" & still was like "yeah i'll trust this guy"

[ruby cape]

Up to when he found out he was being played with

[grand flower]

You guys do realize that the way we perceive Imu is the same way Harald would rihht?

Meaning

Our understanding of Imu comes by proxy of the WG

Before we get displays of Imus character, we as the audience judge him based on our observations of the WG

Harald is doing the same thing in universe

[iron oriole]

imagine being told your kingdom is now mine & still going along with it

[grand flower]

We already know Harald has come to the conclusion that the WG is a net good but has rotten portions that can be weeded out

So when Harald sees Imu

[wet condor]

It's honestly hilarious

[grand flower]

His assumptions are going to be based on his perceptions of the WG

You guys are making the mistake of judging Harald based on what you know

[leaden rivet]

This panel kills me for some reason

[grand flower]

Not by putting yourself in his shoes and looking at it through what HE knew

[wet condor]

I am putting myself in his shoes, and I know that if I was him, I wouldn't be doing what he's doing

I know myself well enough for that lol

[digital spear]

Harald just wanted that Imussy

HARALD DID NOTHING WRONG

[leaden rivet]

Harald ignored way too many red flags but he really had limited options so I can see why he did

[grand flower]

You’re basing that on what you know about Imu and the WG

[wet condor]

Not even

[grand flower]

Because the story makes it very clear why Harald believes in the WG in a way that makes sense

[blazing glen]

Putting yourself in someone's shoes doesn't mean you're just borrowing their shoes. It means you're in their mindset as them.

[grand flower]

^^^

[blazing glen]

It means literally think about it as them.

[wet condor]

I'm basing that on all the things that Harald's been told. I know if I'm getting that information

[grand flower]

You have to look at tjis based on what Harald has observed

Harald has observed the WG being 80% good with 20% rot slipping thru the cracks

[wet condor]

I have the theroy of mind to model Harald's thinking. I'm saying that I think his theory of mind is a bad way of looking at the situation

[grand flower]

That goodwill extends to Imu

The same way our vitriol for the government extends to Imu

[blazing glen]

His theory of mind is "I don't care what happens to me so long as Elbaph is free".

[leaden rivet]

Free with a huge asterisk

[wet condor]

Or his course of action is never something I'd do

[grand flower]

It’s not even about theory of mind as much as it is about what information did Harald have for him

[blazing glen]

He was totally willing to accept being corrupted so long as Elbaph wasn't affected

[grand flower]

Like that panel Kieran posted of imu telling Harald he can’t just leave the throne makes sense

You are joining an organization as the representative of your country

[supple bane]

hail wpol

wapol is god

[grand flower]

And you’re gonna immediately leave and put in someone we have no working relationship with?

[digital spear]

hail wpol

[wet condor]

I just don't accept this because I know people who would be in Harald's situation who would question it lol

[grand flower]

Ofc the leader of the organization is gonna go “yeah you can’t just DO that if you’re working with us”

[blazing glen]

People in his situation aren't him though.

[wet condor]

Just because Harald has this information doesn't mean his way of thinking necessarily the only way to go about it

[supple bane]

wpl will rise and all shall submit

[wet condor]

True

[leaden rivet]

Which is where the stupidity comes from. Because his only worth as king is that the people of Elbaf follow him. How could he think it was only him that would suffer?

[grand flower]

That really doesn’t matter because it’s about what Harald knows and values

[sturdy steeple]

I think it’s more like “Harald was tired of having Elbaf seen as constant threat which resulted in centuries of oppression”. Keep in mind that he’s lived through things like hunger, violence and etc.

[blazing glen]

Because he has a martyrdom complex from his desperation to change Elbaph as a whole, fundamentally.

[grand flower]

You guys have to remember that Harald himself was a scumbag who became better

Harald is surrounded by giants who became better

[blazing glen]

It's not that he wanted to better himself, he felt he needed to atone for not just his sins but the sins of his ancestors as a whole.

[leaden rivet]

And because of that he stupidly ignored several red flags because he believed he didn’t have much of a choice

[sturdy steeple]

Like him choosing to ignore bad sides is not surprising

[grand flower]

So when he sees the gov being 80% good, 20% rotten, ofc he’s not gonna just give up

[sturdy steeple]

Giants as a nation had it rough

[blazing glen]

He was willing to sacrfice himself so long as his people and country benefitted.

[grand flower]

I don’t even think he’s ignoring it as much as it’s accepted the WG is so big, bad people will just be there

Sengoku and Garp say this during that same flashback for fhis very reason

[muted crown]

His tragedy was that he was never able to really grasp until the end that the ways he thought he was sacrificing of himself greatly affected other people at every turn. He just kept turning a blind eye to it, with his wife, with his son, with the people he brutalized as the dog of the WG.

He had these reformer’s ideals, but he refused to put them into practice in his own life, sort of like a far more damaging mirror of Fisher-Tiger’s blood transfusion rejection.

[leaden rivet]

Like he sees Imu sitting on the grand throne, which should throw out everything he truly knows about the WG out the window but he’s like fuck it we ball

[stone terrace]

Its a great honor

[grand flower]

Why would it do that instead of making him go “oh this is the guy overseeing the organization I think is doing a lot of good”

[blazing glen]

Think of it this way. Ida ignored Haralds red flags when he was at his worst and chose to stay with him. With that in mind, why wouldn't he think that with enough effort, he could ignore some red flags so long as he could make a difference eventually.

No one goes in thinking "Boy, this guy will absolutely corrupt my mind and mind control me"

[grand flower]

Why are you guys acting like it doesnr make sense that all of the goodwill Harald felt toward the WG just got projected on Imu once he found out Imu is responsible for the WG

[leaden rivet]

Like I think it’s a bit moronic to believe that you the supreme leader of Elbaf being a slave to the WG wouldn’t include Elbaf’s people

[wet condor]

That's a good point too lol

[blazing glen]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Harald wasn't an idiot for that.

[grand flower]

You guys understand projecting your hatred for the WG into imu

As a narrative device

[sturdy steeple]

I think it’s fair to say he ignored the very top of that rotten ruling mechanism they have. Celestial dragons, that is.

He just wanted his people to finally live good. He wasn’t fighting for freedom of the whole world.

[manic atlas]

Harald just like me fr, a good dude that got finessed.

[wet condor]

He was fighting for that though

[grand flower]

I think for him, it’s the same trap the rest of the world is actively falling for besides the Revos

[iron oriole]

also makes me laugh how Harald was all like "i allowed my best friend to go to his death" & then still did the thing that said best friend warned him about

[grand flower]

People overlook the rotten in the WG because they believe it’s a small part slipping thru the cracks

[blazing glen]

I think it's also fair to understand that Harald came from a lifetime of everyone wanting to murder and enslave Giants because of how brutal the giants were to everyone else. I can see how, coming from that life and mindset, Harald could see the way the Celestial Dragons were behaving as his comeuppance and not just how they treat literally everyone.

[grand flower]

Even the CDs

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/popup-ad-popup-ads-popup-ad-ads-gif-18927683

[grand flower]

The WG takes advantage of a utilitarian illusion

[sturdy steeple]

I think with CDs it’s kind of impossible at that point because he was directly involved with Imu, Gorosei and etc.

[wet condor]

Not the freedom of the whole world, but he's definitely a cosmopolitan

[blazing glen]

Please don't post seizure bait.

[grand flower]

“Evik exists here becausw evil will inevitably exist everywhere but at least we reduce the overall evil in the world”

That’s the WGs con

[manic atlas]

[leaden rivet]

The writing was on the wall that the WG clearly weren’t what they seemed

[wraith mantle]

is break week over yet

[muted crown]

As another of my favorite musical animated series says,

“You see, sometimes we hide from the scary things
By trying to side with those very things
…
“You might feel initial relief,
But I promise you, it will be brief”

[grand flower]

This is a faulty conclusion because Harald has seen their practical impact on the world

You can’t argue with results

[iron oriole]

"i left him there to die"

also Harald: i'm going to join the WG, the 1 org that my best friend warned me about & absolutely did not want me to join

[leaden rivet]

I’m ___ and this is deep

[grand flower]

Harald has seen the WG protect people over and over and over

[sturdy steeple]

His goal first and utmost involved the idea of making his nation reign without prejudice.

[grand flower]

The WG has kept up this con for 800 years by projecting the illusion that theyre a net positive on the world

[sturdy steeple]

Ideologically, sure. But that’s not what he’s been trying to do.

[grand flower]

Calling Harald naive for calling for the same con the rest of the world has been falling for for 8 HUNDRED years

Should tell you your analysis is super off

That just means the entire world is naive

[blazing glen]

Yeah, especially when they have not been a part of it and are only looking from the outside in.

[grand flower]

Which just goes back full circle to

Why are we singling out Harald kmao

If sniffing out Imu was that easy this regime wouldn’t have lasted 8 HUNDRED years

[muted crown]

And here I was trying to agree with you, but fine, be insulting for no reason.

[stone terrace]

How many people have met imu in the past 800

[leaden rivet]

I wasn’t insulting you

[blazing glen]

At least 13

[leaden rivet]

It was a joke

[wet condor]

A lot of people are tbf lol

[grand flower]

You mocked him by doing that KOL

[leaden rivet]

Harald is definitely a flat earther

[blazing glen]

Harald is way too large to believe flat earth theory.

He can see the curvature by standing up straight.

[grand flower]

You diminish that word to mean absolutely nothing when your criteria includes 90% of the planetary population

Tbh

[wet condor]

I don't know if it's that much. I'm sure there are several people who question the WG every day

[grand flower]

I just don’t see how “Harald is naive because he fell for the same con Inu has been tricking the entire world with for 8 centuries” is a valid analysis of his character

Yall are way way way off

[stone terrace]

Except harald had so much more knowledge into the inner workings

He was deluding himself

[brittle basin]

finally some good theories

[stone terrace]

The average person tills land for a living and doesn't believe in devil fruits

[dapper tree]

oldest trick in the book

[clever idol]

Hope u realize that harold doubling dowm is directly because he feels grief over not helping rox. Its essentially him saying that in his way that if his friendship was the cost for this ghen he was going to make it worth it

[blazing glen]

Harald is Naive, but not because he fell for the con of the WG.

[leaden rivet]

This is the truth

[dapper tree]

should have seen it coming

[leaden rivet]

The world government having a true leader is the most obvious sign that there’s some fuckery going on

[blazing glen]

He's not even naive about it, he was literally prepared to sacrifice himself.

[leaden rivet]

That’s the naivety

He believed sacrificing himself didn’t include Elbaf

[stone terrace]

He asked to be a slave and the monkeys paw curled

[wet condor]

Everybody understands this. Another person could've taken this information and went in the other direction

[clever idol]

Harald was never going to go against the wg unless tjey did shit like what they are cjrrently trying to do to elbaf

[wraith mantle]

has anyone discussed bb vs imu final villain today??

[stone terrace]

How can you possibly even say you've been deceived. Does a slave have rights?

[clever idol]

Ur correct. Its not in harald to start a war
Thats like his whole thing

[blazing glen]

BB is gonna be final villain and BB is going to absorb Imu so that Imu is forced to experience "sinking into the blackness of the abyss" like Davy Jones.

keeping the "promise"

[leaden rivet]

This is literally what Imu was trying to tell his dumbass too

YOU said you were MY slave

[clever idol]

Harald would only take actiom against tjw wg if absolutely necessary and that would be elbafs current situation

Its not just naivette its against his goal of making amends for elbafs warmongerimg history

[grand flower]

Harald tells Rocks he’s seen personally the WG do more good for the world than their worst members have harmed it and yall are wondering why Harald didn’t assume the one responsible for it was evil

[clever idol]

His conviction in this cannot be understated

[grand flower]

Y’all want Harald to ignore the results he’s SEEN the WG achieve

And judge Inu based on…vibes

And that…would FIX his naivety???

[blazing glen]

Harald was not naive. He was just unprepared for the level of control Imu had. He even said he would be willing to let the WG have some giants so long as the giants being recruited were willing to join them. He was preparing to make that compromise to join the WG when Imu said "Nah dog, you don't understand. This isn't a compromise, it's GOING to happen and you're going to do it this way" and mind controlled him. If Imu didn't have mind control powers with the mark, Harald would have been like "I see the folly of trying to negotiate and be at peace. We cannot work with the World Government."

[clever idol]

He was geneuinely surprised by thosr wg agemts hurting thos islanders and still acted

[grand flower]

And when he attacked them, he wasn’t punished for it

Which gives the impression that the WG didnr mind, if not approved

[leaden rivet]

Maybe don’t make contracts with someone you just met

[grand flower]

This analysis requires ignoring tf out of what Harald actually says and goes thru

[leaden rivet]

Yes here’s this contract that makes you immortal and more powerful that’s it. Nothing else.

[grand flower]

Harald has been working with them for years 😭😭😭

[wet condor]

I get why he did it. Still would say he made wrong decisions. And reason his people aren't being enslaved and used as weapons of conquests is because Luffy and company are pulling up

[grand flower]

Ay dios mio the thinking caps are NOT on tonight

[leaden rivet]

Yeah that’s where I’m at also

[wet condor]

No we're thinking. We just don't care about Harald's excuses

[grand flower]

Yeah it’s the wrong decision but that’s based entirely on the consequences

[leaden rivet]

He was in a tough position, he’s still a dumbass. But tough position nonetheless.

[grand flower]

Not on Harald making a decision that all the information he has said he shouldn’t have made

Harald had no solid reason to think Imu was evil

[stone terrace]

Im not calling it a tough position because he put himself in it

[grand flower]

Finding out Imu existed just means Harald found out Imu is responsible for this

[stone terrace]

If elbaf was facing some kind of impending peril thats a tough position

Harald aggressively chased this

[grand flower]

Again, holding the slave ship against Harald doesnt make sense when he attacked that ship

And the organization did nothing to him for it

[leaden rivet]

No red flags here guys

Let me enter a covenant with him

[wet condor]

Told that man "Your country is my country"

[grand flower]

Acting like red flags = irrefutably proof this person is wvil

[grand flower]

Cmon bro

[stone terrace]

The hundreds slaves being beaten and r worded on his way to the throne room happened to escape his mind

[wet condor]

"What your people do is what I say. I make the rules"

[sturdy steeple]

This guy is acting like any royalty would so lol

[grand flower]

You just joined the United Nations ans you tell them “yeah you know how you’ve been working with me all this time? I’m gonna throw that out the window and you’re gonna be working with…some guy instead I don’t even know right now”

[blazing glen]

People here acting like there's no way they'd be so caught off guard in this situation that they wouldn't overlook some things while trying to process it.

[grand flower]

Obviously they’re gonna go “uhhh no wtf?”

[stone terrace]

Well I'd never get there so I really cant think of that

[leaden rivet]

If I’m caught off guard by a random black blob who is defying the entire concept of the World government who just told me that he decides who rules my country I probably won’t make a covenant with him

But that’s just me

[wet condor]

This is not even really analogous because country's have ambassadors for the United Nations and they change all the time lol

[grand flower]

You’re joining someone else’s organization and you’re shocked they have rules?

[blazing glen]

Exactly, it's a WORLD GOVERNMENT.

[grand flower]

Okay

Let’s say this then

You’re about to film a porno

You discuss it for months

[blazing glen]

It's not a corporation, it's a collective of countries with people and power.

[wet condor]

This where you going?

[grand flower]

Your costars says ey yeah it’s gonna be this other guy instead

[leaden rivet]

Yes and the sheer existence of Imu defies the concept of it in the first place but Harald doesn’t even think twice of entering this covenant

[fast pagoda]

Apparently they call Killingham gum saint in japanese

[grand flower]

Because lesrning about Imu just means he now ascribes this to Imu

[fast pagoda]

https://x.com/kjjmmmut/status/2040066255965786588?s=46

熹嶋 (@Kjjmmmut)

社交パーティにいる神騎士の妄想

X · Apr 3, 2026, 1:57 PM

[blazing glen]

This happens all the time in that business, though.

[stone terrace]

Shout out to an actual wise king

[wet condor]

If I remember he's a bit of a sucker too but at least he's smarter than Harald was lol

[sturdy steeple]

Who the hell is this on the left

[leaden rivet]

Not a high bar

[blazing glen]

The difference is that his background isn't coated with the blood of everyone else and his goal isn't to try and rectify the mistakes of his predecessors.

[manic atlas]

RIP Wobra

[grand flower]

I’m just saying it makes sense that Imu would respond with “no, you arent gonna just drop out when YOURE the one we’ve been establishing this working relationship with”

Like that doesnt make Imu wvil

evil*

[blazing glen]

Ahh gotcha, my mistake. Thought you were trying to say something else.

[grand flower]

Especially when Harald canr even tell them WHO is gonna replace him

He literally says “yeah itll be SOME GUY”

[frigid gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-the-gorosei-about-to-end-cobra-in-front-of-imu-nefertari-cobra-gorosei-saint-jaygarcia-saturn-the-five-elders-gif-10556269074512151968

Respect him

[iron oriole]

ehh its more than that, it's essentially Imu saying that he has no say in what happens on Elbaf anymore

[fast pagoda]

Garling with his hair down

[leaden rivet]

Idk about wobra 😅 lets stick to cobra

[frigid gulch]

Took two tail strikes from Imu

[grand flower]

That’s a leap

[blazing glen]

It's saying that to US because we know what Imu is really like.

[iron oriole]

hardly

[stone terrace]

4 pistols and a supreme grade for a dying man

[grand flower]

No it’s not becausw “you can’t leave the throne Willy nilly” doesnt mean “we now also decide your local laws”

[blazing glen]

It's not surprising at all considering everyone in the WG knows about how the Celestial Dragons are.

[wet condor]

The fact that there's a supreme sovereign of the WG sitting on top of a throne when the organization is supposed to be a coalition of nations, is the actual shot caller doesn't cause some deep introspection I just find hilarious and disqualifies any person from being a head of state

[manic atlas]

forgot about this

[iron oriole]

Imu is openly saying, he can't decide when or who he abdicates the throne to, it's Imu declaring control over Elbaf from that moment forward

[grand flower]

It makes sense when Harald has already seen the illusion that the WG is a net positive to the world

[wet condor]

I ain't going for it

[blazing glen]

We know that because of the pretense. Any king who joins a world-wide coalition would need to discuss a thing such as changing the leadership with the coalition head first.

[grand flower]

Projecting your impression of the WG onto Imu isn’t unique to us as readers

[blazing glen]

He didn't even know who he was going to change heads to.

[grand flower]

Exactly

[wet condor]

I'd maybe be more forgiving if there was some panels of him seriously considering it

[grand flower]

It’s enough that it’s logical Harald would project this impression of the organization into the one running that organization

We don’t need to see Harald do so because WE can connect the dots

[leaden rivet]

Literally enters a covenant with him the NEXT panel it’s so funny

[grand flower]

We were already given Haralds POV of the organization

[blazing glen]

You're not taking into account the fact that Harald didn't just go "I think I'm gonna go try to do this because it's fun lol", he literally dedicated his entire being into this effort to change Elbaph and the world's views on it.

[grand flower]

We should be smart enough to understand “oh, he just ascribed that impression to Imu because now it’s his understanding that Imu is responsible for that impression”

[blazing glen]

He went in there knowing he'd join no matter what.

[leaden rivet]

Not even a “let me think this through the entire basis of the world government is a lie you were spreading around the world” just makes the contract

[fast pagoda]

That is one of the main reasons Imu doesnt reveal himself

[stone terrace]

This is straight up even worse as a leader

[wet condor]

You don't tell them that you can't do it lol

[fast pagoda]

He wanted human respect so bad

[grand flower]

That’s not at it all

[stone terrace]

Fully buying into sunk cost

[wet condor]

That's domestic politics

[iron oriole]

thing is he knows enough to question it

[wet condor]

You don't tell the king that he can't abdicate his throne

[grand flower]

They made sure Harald was deeply exposed to the WG prior to meeting Imu

[wet condor]

If it's a nation of equals

[fast pagoda]

I know its just funny to call him dumb

[leaden rivet]

This is what makes him so stupid

Like I’ve said

[grand flower]

You do when you’re joining someone else’s organization lol

[leaden rivet]

He’s under the impression that him as the supreme leader is completely separate from Elbaf

[wet condor]

No you don't

[fast pagoda]

I wish we actually saw Harald's reaction to the atrocities commited by the celestial dragons though

[wet condor]

You don't tell a king, of his own nation, that he can't abdicate his throne

[stone terrace]

You are not intended to think harald was being a rational actor in this flashback

[wet condor]

You can tell you can't join

It's not your decision

[sturdy steeple]

You can kind of do that, lol

[grand flower]

We already have his impression

[stone terrace]

He basically went mad following rocks and idas deaths

[leaden rivet]

When you so desperately enter a deal, even willing to become a slave you lose all possible negotiation rites

[red lagoon]

He’s not wrong about it tho

[leaden rivet]

It’s the worst thing a leader of a country can do

[fast pagoda]

He's more talking about the navy though

Harald was working directly with world nobles

[grand flower]

It’s remarkable how much OP fans fail to understand this is how the WG keeps up its con

[fast pagoda]

He was in mary geoise a lot

[fast pagoda]

That is very true

[grand flower]

Mmhmm and they are the rot within an organization that Harald believes was overall a net positive for the world

[fast pagoda]

I think thats why the RA are such big deals

They show you dont have to be a marine to be a hero

[sturdy steeple]

You’re joining the organisation that is far powerful than you. I’m sorry but yes, they can impose conditions.

[wet condor]

I understand this completely.

[tough dust]

more so blinded by a dream that is not realistic sadly

[sturdy steeple]

And that doesn’t mean much to whether they’re evil or good.

[fast pagoda]

Yeah I do understand that, I just wish we actually saw his direct thoughts. And this conversation was before he joined the knights or went to mary geoise the second time

[stone terrace]

Its not like its the council of kings imposing them

Its one guy who harald had literally just met

[grand flower]

Even without power, it’s just common sense “you join us, we have rules and regulations you have to follow”

[stone terrace]

Who SHOULD not exist

[small ember]

I guess the dramatic irony is that we know the WG is awful but Harald doesn’t know as much as we do

[stone terrace]

Oh he knows plenty

[grand flower]

Mmhmm

[wet condor]

Of course

[grand flower]

Not enough

[tough dust]

THIS lol

[small ember]

I mean I’m sure he does but as much as the viewer? Nope.

[fast pagoda]

Like yes the WG attacked him when he visited the Reverie but that isnt very surprising

[tough dust]

we the readers know how horse shit the WG is but harald don't have the same amount of info as us

[grand flower]

This is just gonna keep being relevant throughout this discussion lol

[small ember]

Also keep in mind that he was guided by his passion for Elbaf but you could also say it blinded him

[fast pagoda]

Even if the WG wasnt evil that would be a natural response to an intruder

[stone terrace]

Yes he was blinded

He ignored all of the red flags

[grand flower]

I think the grief of rocks and Ida dying probably clouded his judgement toward the end

[stone terrace]

But he had info, and elected to not consider the implications

[red lagoon]

In his eyes it would be better for elbaf in the long term to align themselves won’t the wg

[grand flower]

It’s not that he ignored the flags, it’s that the regime that’s been fooling the entire world for 800 years are masters of plausible deniability and the illusion of prosperity

[stone terrace]

Mind you at this point harald at a minimum knew of the events of god valley, orchestrated by celestial dragons

[fast pagoda]

I just wish we actually saw Harald's direct reaction to stuff like slavery or the killing games

[red lagoon]

And he sees them as a organisation that’s mostly good

[fast pagoda]

Because there's no way he didnt see that

[stone terrace]

And he had met saul, who was fresh off a genocide

[small ember]

Yeah I would think so for sure. Like how could that not weigh on him so heavily

[small ember]

Yeah that would have been great to explore

[grand flower]

He doesn’t know about the hunting games, from what we know

[blazing glen]

He was blinded by his desperation to change Elbaph's history, even if it meant sacrificing himself. If he knew that the WG was just going to use his influence to turn Elbaph back into blood-thirsty warriors he wouldn't have accepted. He was just under the impression that HE would be the sacrficial pawn for the betterment of his people.

[grand flower]

Him attacking the Cipher Pol ship is his reactions to slavery

[small ember]

He def saw slavery around though

[dense haven]

harold was totally fine as long as the slavery didn't happen to his own

[blazing glen]

What I'm most curious about though

is what Imu said recently.

[blazing glen]

"Elbaph is D".

What the hell could that mean.

[wet condor]

To his own people or his own allies, yeah

Honestly, I'm not even bothered by that

[iron oriole]

And then as a King, went & offered himself up as a slave which would naturally result in Elbaf becoming slaves as a whole

[fast pagoda]

We dont talk enough about how Morgans is lowkey racist against giants

[grand flower]

That’s not what he did lol

Harald was offering to sacrifice his place on the throne to become a slave

[blazing glen]

Morgans is racist against anyone so long as it generates the most hype headlines.

[fast pagoda]

He was always on Harald's ass and kept calling him a savage angry giant in headlines

[wet condor]

Harald looking out for his own people and his own allies is fine by me. There just isn't enough questioning which I find hilarious and ridiculous

[grand flower]

He wasn’t about to be king of Elbaph and a slave simultaneously

He was expecting Elbaph to replace him and move on

[red lagoon]

Be put his people first

[iron oriole]

Literally offered himself up as a slave

[red lagoon]

Turn a lil blind eye for the best of his people

[knotty bone]

Actually put his people last

[dense pike]

Wolf in sheeps clothing
hes pandering to racists
so gotta act like one to sell more papers

[grand flower]

Which means leaving his throne

[iron oriole]

A King offering himself up as a slave puts the entire country at risk

[red lagoon]

He did what he thought was best do them

[grand flower]

He obviously didn’t mean he would be a slave king

[red lagoon]

He even wanted to sacrifice himself for them

[grand flower]

Elbaph was just gonna replace him

[knotty bone]

Cause he dumb

[fast pagoda]

I know the whole character of Morgans is that hes kinda soulless and has no values other than selling the most papers (which can be a good or bad thing)

[red lagoon]

U can say harald is dumb or naive but he always had good intentions

[fast pagoda]

But I do wonder if he really does have personal values somehwere deep down beyond that

[iron oriole]

The throne he was told he wasn't allowed to leave because he's now a slave you mean?

[stone terrace]

Harald mutilating himself to prove a point should tell you he was not sound of mind anymore

[wet condor]

I'm willing to agree with that lol

[knotty bone]

It's hard to rely on my good intentions when my heads full of things that I can't mention

[grand flower]

That was AFTER this and AFTER Harald was promoted

[dense pike]

he probably does
I think Gatz is a good example of Morgans' future character arc

[grand flower]

Ehhhh

That’s not framed negatively in OP

[dense haven]

right? what else would they need him for? lol if the guy is so easily replaceable then he wasn't actually important in the first place

[grand flower]

Katakuri stabbing him self

Luffy stabbing him self

Zoro stabbing him self

[fast pagoda]

He did take in Vivi and Wapol, maybe Vivi can fix him

[grand flower]

Lot of people stab themselves

[fast pagoda]

Ultimately Harald is someone with very good intentions who went down a wrong path

[wet condor]

This don't really bother me

[knotty bone]

Self harm isn't cool

[wet condor]

You lucky Rokaya wasn't in here to see that

[tough dust]

if harald didn't do what he did, elbaf would have been invaded a long long time ago

[wet condor]

lol

[small ember]

Harald is a cautionary tale of what happens when you trust the WG too much, or even think they have your best interest

[tough dust]

🤷‍♂️

[knotty bone]

Oda shouldn't be glamorizing it

[small ember]

Like literally we saw him make a deal with the devil

[wet condor]

In general I would agree with you though

[iron oriole]

The fact it happened after doesn't change the fact that Harald became a slave to the WG, doing whatever they commanded of him & by doing so as King would naturally put the entire country at risk of being slaves too

[sturdy steeple]

Honestly, it’s not really complicated for me at least to accept the reason why he so desperately wanted to join World Government. His entire flashback is basically how his people suffered back and forth. He did ignore certain stuff, sure, because he wanted to at least set Elbaf on the right path. World Government has god knows how many countries under their wing and Harald saw that this system is net positive.

[wet condor]

Most self-mutiliation is due to some mental illness. But harald is trying to show his devotion. I don't think he's necessarily crazy

[stone terrace]

Zealots are the craziest people

[dense haven]

harold is the polar opposite of akainu

extreme pacifism vs extreme militarism

[tough dust]

they lived 14 years peacefully after harald death btw

[sturdy steeple]

I’m more surprised to why Imu thought Harald would obey him before he messed with his mind. I guess he just wanted to try lol

[stone terrace]

Thanks to him dying

Otherwise theyd be soldiers rn

[wet condor]

Yeah, this is clear. I get why he does it. The reasons why he does it I think aren't good and I don't think he questioned things enough. Not something that I'd want if I guy is supposed to be my king

but in real life, I wouldn't even care if it's not my country lol

[knotty bone]

Because he was desperate for Ida's approval even though she was mid

[red lagoon]

Ego

[small ember]

Glorious Imu was right not to trust that lunatic

[wet condor]

I don't want to put it all on her even though she obviously gave him ideas lol

[dense haven]

we all did crazy things for some booty call man

[stone terrace]

The only thing I wonder is why imu had harald do the whole humiliation ritual

Dude was so eager to join he couldve just slapped the mind control mark earlier

[sturdy steeple]

This is why we’ve been saying it’s not a good look if you can’t imagine yourself in his shoes. And for that you’d have to live through decades of starvation and oppression.

[fast pagoda]

Imu is probably a sadist

[small ember]

Prob to make an example of him, or to make him know that he’s lesser

[red lagoon]

If u let anyone join willy nilly u risk not being a secret

[wet condor]

Who're you talking about? The Giants?

[knotty bone]

If Harold was gonna slum it with a commoner he should have gone after Gerd

[red lagoon]

U gotta be down for the cause 100%

[wet condor]

The giants of Elbaph as far as I know weren't oppresed at all

[knotty bone]

At least Gerd doesn't have a potato nose like ida

[fast pagoda]

I could be reading this totally wrong, but it seems like Imu here believes harald simply lost to someone instead of letting himself go, i need to reread the flashback though

[tough dust]

these come at a cost, he can't just hand it out that easily

[wet condor]

In One Piece, from what I remember, they ruled and were terrorizing the New World lol

[grand flower]

No it doesn’t because they could have just elected a new king

[iron oriole]

You gotta stop

[knotty bone]

It's not an democracy.

[wet condor]

Just like the Vikings of Scandinavia were doing to much of NW Europe

[tough dust]

he had no idea what killed harald

until he just found out recently that niddhog was learking

[grand flower]

Harald told Imu and the Elders that Elbaph would elect a new king

[sturdy steeple]

?
That’s the reason why they were feared and oppressed in return, lol. The moment Harald decided to set a peace course, they were fucked.

[knotty bone]

Lol, the strongest warrior would just take the crown. That's how monarchies actually work

[fast pagoda]

Yeah I'm aware, I just didnt know if Imu was aware Harald let himself die

[wet condor]

The giants of Elbaph, I don't ever remember it being mentioned they were oppressed

No one could oppress them

[red lagoon]

No one fucked with the giants

[fast pagoda]

The D did

[wet condor]

Part of the reason why they were autonomous is because they're just so powerful

[sturdy steeple]

What

[small ember]

Imu’s gonna talk about this discussion next chapter

[tough dust]

he wouldn't know since he has not seen in it from any pov

[fast pagoda]

Also giants ARE oppressed lol

They are enslaved a lot

[stone terrace]

Harald did a lot to turn around the giants reputation. He was impatient and arguably greedy though

[knotty bone]

Oh yay, talk-no-justu from the king of the WG

[fast pagoda]

Just often non elbaph ones

[stone terrace]

Of COURSE you can't repair hundreds of years of damage in just 50

[small ember]

Now we see them sold and bought as child soldiers—Mother Caramel and the like

[fast pagoda]

He was able to talk to Harald telepathically though

[red lagoon]

The one Rayleigh freed in sabaoady too

[small ember]

https://tenor.com/view/imu-one-piece-imu-angry-one-piece-episode-1119-imu-looking-at-sabo-gif-3150554157530427386

[stone terrace]

Speaking of carmel kinda funny oda just sidestepped that whole thing

Not enough time i guess

[latent hamlet]

Evidently not enough if he was like "idunno what killed harald but definitely dont wanna fuck with that"

[wet condor]

The non Elbaph ones, yeah. But saying they were oppressed implies to me they were preyed on or that they were the target of genocides of some large scale slave trade or something

[sturdy steeple]

The idea is that most did not like giants because they had a reputation of literal criminals. There was a plenty of prejudice. The whole face was feared, enslaved for labour and violence.

[fast pagoda]

I really wish carmel appeared

[latent hamlet]

Caramel was basically big mom device

[small ember]

Oh true

[fast pagoda]

Even just a panel

[small ember]

That thing with Caramel can always be answered in an SBS but wish we got some time devoted to it

[tough dust]

imu was confidence enough that not a single soul in elbaf was able to beat harald lol
so there is no reason telepathically call again when hes body is being able to controlled and he can't stop it

[small ember]

Wasn’t John Giant a part of that scheme?

Child soldier and the like

[latent hamlet]

If anything HK Harald was probably number 1 in the verse not named Imu

Until nidhogg loki

[sturdy steeple]

And I was talking about the moment Harald decided to change the course for Elbaf. Him not being with WG meant that the trade routes and whatnot were fucked. There are pages where we see Harald being frustrated with his people starving.

[small ember]

And we also have that group of giants that WB absolutely rocked at marineford

[wet condor]

The way you phrased it made it sound like to me that Elbaph is this nation that's always being preyed upon

[fast pagoda]

I think hk harald and domi rocks are probably equal

[tough dust]

yeah probably

[wet condor]

They had that one famine from what I remember yeah

Or they almost did

But they had allies that they had gained due to Harald's diplomacy

[latent hamlet]

Stat wise prooobably but HK Harald was of "sound mind" while rocks was a more rampaging beast

[sturdy steeple]

They had these allies and then WG intervened, lol

[latent hamlet]

Tho idunno if HK boost is greater than demon boost

[iron oriole]

Definitely is

Its more exclusive