also-manga

[west hinge]

thats what im sayin

[brittle basin]

Chapter?

[west hinge]

and at the bottom of ryuma robe and arm sleeves, theres like this dragon claw marks just like dragon too i wonder if theyre connected or a symbol of something

[latent hamlet]

So a random thought
What if Rocks survived (like they found him before the HKs and dragged him away)
Do u think he'd still be fighting or just retired cuz he got fucked up

[olive sigil]

I don’t want to think about Shiki

[formal wagon]

whats a chapter

[olive sigil]

I think he would make a full recovery

[olive sigil]

The thing you’re supposed to read

[sage temple]

I can see him looking at Loki as his own child if he was able to make it out ot GV

And then entrusting his goal to Loki or Blackbeard

From how we've seen their relationship evolve over time

[brittle basin]

4kids Sanji comeback when?

[formal wagon]

like wednesday

january february march april jungle july august march september august november september

[latent hamlet]

Basically he's benched in elbaf as that 1 uncle figure?

[latent hamlet]

True. No 1 really gets permanently fucked up

[sage temple]

Probably not actually

[formal wagon]

loki has to die by the end of this arc

[sage temple]

If Rocks survived Harald wouldn't have been pushed over the edge to submit to the WG

[formal wagon]

all the death flags have been raised

he's not making it out of this

[formal wagon]

he'll be a flashback merchant like ace

[sage temple]

Anyways I can't wait to see Loki's fruit

[latent hamlet]

O ye true. Harald went full sunk cost because rocks died.
Harald probably would have stalled with rocks still around

[sage temple]

Yeah

[formal wagon]

😂 😂

[sage temple]

But seeing Rocks get so close to death might make Harald agree

[formal wagon]

fire template meme

dude im stealing that

[sage temple]

Since God Valley was such a crazy moment for em

[formal wagon]

😂

[latent hamlet]

Rocks probably: THEY WENT AFTER MY WIFE AND KID. TOOK OVER MY BODY HARALD.

[sage temple]

Wait if Rocks survived, Harald wouldn't have submitted to the WG, meaning the Castle Incident wouldn't have happened

So if Rocks survived Loki wouldn't have gotten the fruit

Or Ragnir I guess

[olive sigil]

But the giants are evil I need to bow to the blob demon

[sage temple]

Since he wouldn't have any reason to prior to the castle incident

[latent hamlet]

O ye and harald himself wouldnt go after it

[sage temple]

I think Harald would

[olive sigil]

So really rocks dying allowed Ragnir to get out of the room

[latent hamlet]

Those random giants that messed up another island only for harald to punch em to death

[olive sigil]

Rocks W

[sage temple]

Rocks was talking about that fruit saying it's best for Harald to use

At least most likely-ly

So if Rocks survived he'd tell Harald to eat it

[olive sigil]

Harald was so obsessed on the giants are evil narrativd

[sage temple]

Rocks dying might've been best for the story

[latent hamlet]

Tbf he himself was a shithead
And probably saw plenty of giants being bad too

He's got the years to witness that history in the making

[olive sigil]

But why did he think they were the only ones. He also never believed he had redeemed himself even after all the good he tried to do

[latent hamlet]

Imo
People who genuinely hate their past actions and selves dont consider themselves "redeemed" because to them, doing good IS the mission

Its not about being like "I did good im redeemed now. Yay thats my end goal"

[sage temple]

If Rocks survived he would've let Harald know about how evil Imu was so idk Harald might've gone completely pirate-ish for Rocks to be king of the world

[olive sigil]

He never gave himself the chance to be happy. He focused too much on the mission, a mission who led to tragedy

[latent hamlet]

Blame ida

Hence loki saying 'is this what happens when you love your country too much"

[olive sigil]

Ida didn’t want him to let go of his culture. Just make him a better person

[olive sigil]

There’s loving your country and there’s loving an idealistic version of your country

[latent hamlet]

But if the culture promotes being a shithead intentionally or not, then some might say it needs to be fixed

[latent hamlet]

Hard part would be elbaf's rep tho

[olive sigil]

The culture promotes being ashamed of who they are. The Elbaf pride

[brittle basin]

https://tenor.com/view/beaver-shock-shocked-surprised-drop-gif-12475524430757828058

[wraith mantle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/f1-f1-movie

[formal wagon]

groundhog day?

[brittle basin]

Groundhog night

[golden valley]

https://youtu.be/DIuXdMO7x2U?si=Z0NOglpGAMjdFu2g

Droppin’ the Loki glaze video. Bout time

[sage temple]

Look how everyones switching up

[grand flower]

Kaido could have killed Harald

[olive sigil]

Rip Socrates

[sage temple]

https://tenor.com/view/money-breaking-bad-sleep-on-money-lay-on-money-money-pile-gif-5382667

[brittle basin]

Creature

[sage temple]

Wdym rip socrates

[olive sigil]

I’m sorry this happened to you

[sage temple]

Are they finally carrying out my assassination

[olive sigil]

No but that video just assassinated Loki

[trim lily]

oh its morj

[olive sigil]

[remote maple]

where? is there a morj hiding somewhere?

[olive sigil]

Don’t worry he’s not here

He can’t hurt you with his annoying person

[remote maple]

oh thank goodness

[digital spear]

I will hurt you

[brittle basin]

YC's comment is so real.

[muted hedge]

clearly he has been slacking

[brittle basin]

Well, I'm dead.

[muted hedge]

it's so cool talking to a corpse right now

[digital spear]

Rip Buffy

[sage temple]

I don't get it

[brittle basin]

Thank you for taking my life.

[sage temple]

Oh ic
Hasn't Morj glazed Luffy as well though

[muted hedge]

he glazes the new trend

[snow locust]

Morj glazes anything that makes Kaido & Wano look worse

[brittle basin]

Morj does whatever lines his pockets.

He's after that bag.

[muted hedge]

honestly, i never expected Kaido to be looked down upon like some of the community currently does

[brittle basin]

Kaido is cool. Let no one tell you otherwise.

[muted hedge]

now adays it feels like everyone is just desperate to prove that Kaido was a fraud or something, i don't get it

[fossil nimbus]

kaido is basically the baseline for all top tiers now. Whenever a top tier is introduced, they are always compared to kaido, theres no way people think hes a fraud

[latent hamlet]

Its cuz he was hyped as the absolute strongest pirate
But he's not even really in this last stage

[fossil nimbus]

Tbh even though kaido isn't the strongest pirate, he absolutely delivered.

[snow locust]

It’s just agenda piece and ppl wanting their own favorites to be stronger than him

[muted hedge]

sigh

[pseudo gulch]

Are there people who really do that?

[muted hedge]

sadly

[pseudo gulch]

Wasn't Wano enough

[snow locust]

I think a lot ppl also don’t rly understand his character and think short flashback = poorly written

As if character writing can only happen within flashbacks

[somber flare]

But he was

[brittle basin]

Regardless, Kaido's backstory left many wanting more.

[fossil nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-luffy-vs-kaido-luffy-v-kaido-wano-wano-kuni-gif-12829637601005251637

[somber flare]

Kaido was like the mountain Luffy had to climb to be able to contend with the big leagues

[muted hedge]

i think it was the perfect backstory for the character
Kaido is just a warmongering brute who seeks to shape the world with violence and violence only

[brittle basin]

Despite losing, Kaido is still capable of contending with endgame villains I bet.

[somber flare]

Kaido is a cool B-A tier villain

[muted hedge]

though i can see why people would want more, but i don't think it would fit the character if say Kaido had some tragic backstory

[somber flare]

A for me because of hype and aura

[kind tide]

oda couldnt really show that much without letting us see rocks i think, similar reason to why we had loki offscreen the majority of his fight with harald

[muted hedge]

definitely otherwise he would've been done with sooner

[snow locust]

I think ppl have gotten too accustomed to the idea that every character needs a long flashback. I was perfectly fine with his flashback

[olive sigil]

He hasn’t glazed Jinbe and I’m so grateful

[brittle basin]

I really just don' think Oda intended Kaido to be that deep. He's a child soldier who ultimately saw power as the greatest might both personally and politically.

[sage temple]

Yeah ig

[brittle basin]

Kaido never even needed a flashback. It was neat, and I'm sure Oda could've exapnded it better or whatever, but it's not necessary really.

[kind tide]

yea he was kinda more of just a big angry wall the main group had to break down

[sage temple]

Loki doesn't really make Kaido look worse

[muted hedge]

Kaido's backstory is tragic, though he as a character doesn't view it as tragic
he thrived being a war machine, used for warfare and nothing else lol

[brittle basin]

Kaido had his deepest ties to the concept of joy boy I believe. Or did he use the name nika?

[snow locust]

I think that's a huge oversimplification of his character

[muted hedge]

Joyboy if i remember correctly

[brittle basin]

ok

that's what I thought

[pseudo gulch]

One Piece fans when the character doesn't have a year long flashback

[muted hedge]

King really brought him on board the Joyboy train

[brittle basin]

Me when flashback doesn't hype me or make me cry like a little baby:

[snow locust]

How am I supposed to understand this character if I don't see everything about them from birth to the present!

[kind tide]

it is a simplification but i wouldnt say its that much of one, oppressed for his strength and race, became a tyrant, joined rocks, became a dragon, rule wano with the wano version of spandam

[muted hedge]

it is a hot take but i think it's fair to say that some character just doesn't need an lengthy flashback

[digital spear]

Its 50% people who are disappointed or tired of the Wano arc to not deliver what they wanted (i.e. Kaidos backstory being lackluster) and 50% of people are powerscalers who love the hype and want everything new to powercliff the last, and Kaido is a huge milestone, so every new big guy > Kaido

[muted hedge]

Kaido being a prime example of it

[muted hedge]

yeah true

[brittle basin]

wano version of spandam lmfaoooooo

[snow locust]

There's way more about him than that lol? That's like saying Doflamingo is just "was angry he couldn't have slaves, now he enslaves a country"

[muted hedge]

the biggest complaint on Wano for me, was forcing Big Mom to take part
i feel like that really wasn't necessary and Big Mom should've been saved for later

[kind tide]

kaido aint a fraud, bro fought like 15 people who were giving their all for several hours, may not be the whole week or month long fights some characters have done but still

[trim lily]

i think you had to either do big mom in whole cake or wano due to kaido

kaido is built up as a dangerous threat thats nearly impossible to defeat

you cant really follow that up with big mom next

[digital spear]

A few expected the second thing to happen (the powercliffing thing), an old user said Kaido will be like Croc in that Croc was the first warlord Luffy defeated so he will seem the weakest to people, and Kaido waa the first Yonko Luffy beat, so people will be quick to decide that Kaido is powercliffed

[snow locust]

I don't mind her being a part of the arc but I think Oda didn't treat her character with the same respect he gave to Kaido

[muted hedge]

i am one who thought that Elbaph would've been a perfect reintroduction for Big Mom, due to the history there though now with Harald, Loki and all the World Government stuff i can see why Oda didn't do it

[sage temple]

Or the "He wasn't a slave with 50 dead relatives with genocide enacted on their entire race? Terrible writing"

[snow locust]

Lol I remember when Saturn's yokai form was first revealed and suddenly every video and post was about how Saturn was gonna powercliff Kaido and Big mom

[kind tide]

like what? also for doffy that kinda is it chuck in the whole also taken in by trebol who you would definitely not want your kids near

[trim lily]

i dont think big mom wouldve fit in elbaf with how out of her element and outnumbered she'd be

[digital spear]

Exactly

[trim lily]

unless she brought her entire crew and like took over somehow

[muted hedge]

damn, i'm still not willing to believe that he has been powercliffed completely lol

[thick mango]

and then shes competing with imu/gk for antagonist status and that just doesnt make sense

[digital spear]

Out of her element? Fire and thunder ....

[kind tide]

doffy was a world nobel dragged out of that life by his dad to live as a bum, he didnt fully understand why so he became a terrorist

[digital spear]

I think that was the plan

[thick mango]

if she is alive, goal #1 is rescuing pudding. Id prefer shes dead and katakuri leads that though

[muted hedge]

yeah, i felt the same in the God Valley flashback
it feels at some points like Big Mom is just a battering ram for Oda to hype other characters with

[trim lily]

but then that makes the people of elbaf look fairly bad lol

[snow locust]

Self-hatred, glorifying death due to his depression, conflicting beliefs between his hope for Joyboy while also being a slaver himself, showing actual care for some of his crewmates, his relationship with Big Mom, his distrust of humans and hatred for the CDs, etc

[tough igloo]

don’t set up Kat like that

[kind tide]

bum by world nobel standards, if i remember their life was still pretty good

[thick mango]

he's the one who failed to protect pudding, it makes sense he leads the charge in getting her back

[kind tide]

i mean i was more talking about backstory but yea

[digital spear]

Well they would stop her

[tough igloo]

just let the straw hats do it .. don’t need Kat being used as a hype tool for the BBP after he already lost Pudding due to fighting Caesar & Oven

[snow locust]

That's what I'm saying tho. Kaido didn't need a long backstory bc he was properly characterized in the present storyline. His backstory just cleared some stuff up but otherwise he was already a fleshed out character by the time we got the backstory

[thick mango]

i think it will be a coalition effort. BB has angered a lot of people. Law could be included, moria, etc

and theres space for him to win by rescuing pudding without necessarily beating BB

[muted hedge]

i thnk that Katakuri should be part of it

[tough igloo]

yeah still don’t make sense to me cause i don’t see Oda creating the whole plot point of Teach getting Pudding just for her brother to come rescue her right back

[trim lily]

since perospero is mia i assume katakuri will be the one to take on the role of leading whole cake/the bm pirates

[thick mango]

well maybe shes rescued after shes served whatever purpose. Theres a lot of flexibility here

[graceful grove]

BMP, Law, Koby all have ppl to rescue from his base

they could raid it when BB is away to collect the weapons

[kind tide]

i feel like if they bring in some of the other folk BB screwed over theyd be there taking care of the fodder like don kreig and whoever else

[muted hedge]

Katakuri taking over the Big Mom pirates and maybe uniting underneath the Grand Fleet would be very cool in my opinion

[trim lily]

thats a bit too far

[tough igloo]

we saw with Winners Island that Teach takes Pudding with him wherever he goes , gonna be pretty tough for Kat trying to keep tabs on that when Shanks can’t even do it and he’s a yonko with resources

[kind tide]

theyd take the role of the samurai during the wano raid

[digital spear]

Yeah we dont need Big Mom for the Puddin, we would need her in Elbaf to close her ties with Elbaf, but if she doesnt come to Elbaf theres no point in her returning somewhere else, even as a skeleton

[vital heart]

Aloha!

[trim lily]

most of the big mom pirates should despise the strawhats

[brittle basin]

Aloha!

[thick mango]

Mabye im reaching and it isnt intentional but I kinda love that BB as the anti-luffy has amassed a coalition of enemies vs luffy having amassed a coalition of friends

[muted hedge]

well, a lot of people did at some point

i feel like they'd trust Katakuri's decision on it

and give it a chance

if for nothing else then Luffy's banner being a protection for the family at large

[kind tide]

was just about to say that

[snow locust]

If Big Mom made a poneglyph into a homie do you think it could read what's written on itself

[digital spear]

I feel like everyone keeps wanting new crews for the grand fleet but Oda wont do it

[trim lily]

dont think so

its just a rock

[tawny panther]

Kat please stay away from Hachinosu dawg .. we don’t need frozen mochi 🙏🏾

[kind tide]

thats an interesting idea, hopefully that gets asked in an sbs

[thick mango]

the grand fleet doesnt really have the administration/organization capability to bring in new people, i dont think anyone else will join

[trim lily]

yeah i dont think we need to shove everyone under luffy's banner

[snow locust]

Yea probably not

[digital spear]

No but maybe it tells her what the poneglyphs soul is saying (they have a voice apparently)

[trim lily]

we can just have temporary alliances at most

[kind tide]

so are everything else big mom brings to life, theyre all just random objects given life

[trim lily]

yeah

the person who carved the letters into the rock would know what they said, not the rock itself

[graceful grove]

doubt oda will have pudding all of a sudden unlock the ability after hammering Robin being the only one and constantly making a point that she is likely to get kidnapped any moment now. it makes more sense for pudding to fail and BB to come looking for Robin

[digital spear]

The grand fleet would need to gather together to renew the sake exchange with the new members, its not impossible but kinda unnecessary

[muted hedge]

i think it would be a very natural way of uniting everyone underneath one banner
which i assume is what the ancient kingdom was at one point, Joyboy probably had almost everyone united as well when he fought Imu (going by the mural)

[digital spear]

The group I wanted to join the grand fleet the most is the sun pirates under Aladin, but if not even they do it then idk who would...

[graceful grove]

Koby and Law already worked together to raid same island xd

[vital heart]

Holy shit

I figured out the final villain of OP

[thick mango]

yeah thats what i mean theres no process/procedure set up to admit new members. The only way you can beyond that is for everyone to come together and unanimously agree which is never gonna happen

[brittle basin]

Unholy poop

the final villain is BB. I have spoken

[trim lily]

wow

[thick mango]

[vital heart]

It's neither Imu or Blackbeard. It's both of them. Combined.

They are going to fuse, genuinely. Not a meme theory. They fuse and will become Davy Jones.

[tough igloo]

he made it clear that robin wasn’t the only one , even in Wano he introduced 2-3 more potential readers & also in wano we had big mom & kaido talked about her eye awakening , authors don’t repeatedly put stuff like that in stories unless it eventually happens

[brittle basin]

https://tenor.com/view/boo-this-man-boo-gif-11031463

[digital spear]

Eventually a lot of the world will be under Luffys banner, but idk if they are all called the grand fleet then. Like is FMI or Wano the grand fleet? Maybe its just other forces who help Luffy

[sage temple]

I lowk hear the sound of Ragnir like chitting

[digital spear]

So glue

The last villain is Imubeard

[muted hedge]

yeah that's true, it could be something less direct

[tawny panther]

Lafitte hypnotizes Pudding .. she has to do whatever they want .. I always forget he has that ability

[graceful grove]

yea nothing came out of those potential ones and BM and Kaido planned to kidnap Robin themselves xd

[trim lily]

speaking of reading poneglyphs, how does uh shanks plan to do that

[kind tide]

i seen a similar idea where its blackbeard absorbing imu with the yami yami no mi taking his power as BBs 3rd fruit but i highly doubt therell be any consentual teamwork

[trim lily]

surely shanks wasnt just sitting on his ass for 10 years and had some preparation

[graceful grove]

his ass knows he is not meant to be the one to find OP xd he ain't going there

[tranquil blade]

His aura lets him read the poneglyphs

[kind tide]

probably doesnt, pretty sure he was there when the roger pirates figured it out so he just remembers how they got there

[trim lily]

he wouldnt need the glyphs in the first place then

[graceful grove]

he is gatekeeping it

[tough igloo]

yea my point is that it got brought up again not too long ago in wano about big mom got tired of waiting for her to awaken. it , the fact it keeps getting brought up means it’s eventually gonna happen and now she’s with the main villain… soooo

[graceful grove]

so bums like Kid don't get in the way

[tranquil blade]

Is it possible to like Shanks and Kid at the same time

or does it have to be like this

[tawny panther]

rare but possible

[tranquil blade]

i like both

[brittle basin]

that's called a mental health disorder

[tranquil blade]

...

[digital spear]

I like both, but I am at constant war with the op fandom

[kind tide]

thats likely gyaban doing that, 90% sure were getting him as the man marked by flames, even tho dragons got the ship and likely the ability to create whirlpools

[graceful belfry]

Yes

[digital spear]

You like Shanks?

[tranquil blade]

Yes

[digital spear]

[tranquil blade]

I'm being so serious it came to me in a dream

[graceful grove]

it could easily be a way to keep BB at bay from going after Robin until the end. thats what he did with BM too until she also got tired of it... and decided to go for Robin

[prisma idol]

Who doesn't?

[trim lily]

everyone loves shanks

[graceful grove]

its possible to not like either

[digital spear]

Not Avery I thought and not Illya

[graceful belfry]

I like both characters, although I’m not afraid to admit I am more curious about Shanks (total surprise, right?)

[sage temple]

I don't

[tranquil blade]

Well I did hate him until like 2 weeks ago

[prisma idol]

There is no Shanks hate

[prisma idol]

You arent a real person

[digital spear]

Did the chapter change it

[sage temple]

Or I'm the only real person

Definitely more real than a shipper

[graceful belfry]

Why not?

[prisma idol]

What did Amazon Employees do to you?

[sage temple]

Because of his fans

[tranquil blade]

Well reading it now yes, but I'm telling you it literally came to me in a dream, and after that dream I started to like Shanks

[graceful belfry]

Ah. Classic

[prisma idol]

Guys Cancel Socrates He hates the working class

[digital spear]

Damn what happened in the dream

[sage temple]

They think because Oda glazes him its impossible for anyone to be given more spotlight than him

[digital spear]

Guys this is literal proof Oda manipulates the minds of his readers to like Shanks

[prisma idol]

Translation: they fight back against His loki glazing with Shanks glaze and he doesn't like it

[sage temple]

I guess and they were wrong

[tranquil blade]

My memory is foggy but I remember Shanks fighting Kaido and it literally offscreened, and then it was Kaido knocked out and Shanks was laying on the ground, and he said some really cool one-liner and I think it won me over

but I forgot what he said

[muted hedge]

outside of Luffy it pretty much is

[prisma idol]

Mods MODS ban YC

[scenic dirge]

Eiichiro Oda mine control 😵‍💫

[sage temple]

Loki just got more than him in this flashback

[digital spear]

???

[upbeat yarrow]

the glazing disease: incurable, only suffered by kid and shanks fans

[digital spear]

I didnt do anything

[muted hedge]

i'd say it went hand in hand, Shanks got fair bit of interesting stuff as well
sure Loki got the bigger hand but that's because it's a flashback around him

[tranquil blade]

and when I woke up I felt like a weight was lifted from my shoulders

[prisma idol]

https://tenor.com/view/festthefestivefest-morgone-jones-morgan-jones-tweaking-tweak-gif-14491782401479632016

[trim lily]

yc didnt consult subsection 3 of the server charter before chatting...

[sage temple]

I'm not even going to talk to you about this anyways you don't know the definition of forefront

[muted hedge]

alright then

[digital spear]

Im not even joking this is legitimately Odas writing style, either he is really messing with your mind, or the next Oda is born like the prophecy said

[tranquil blade]

It was like a curse had been lifted

[graceful belfry]

The spirit of character fandom rivalry is alive and well, I see

[digital spear]

This is how people talk who found to religion

[tranquil blade]

I swear he said some like leon kennedy ass one-liner, but he looked so cool doing it

[unkempt sable]

Yo

[digital spear]

Gods 10 liner went hard too

[prisma idol]

I mean Shanks is called the child of prophecy

[graceful belfry]

Holy shit it’s jon watlas

[trim lily]

you should take over writing

[prisma idol]

Or was it fate

[digital spear]

What if he just steps out the manga one time

[tranquil blade]

My dream was "biblical level glaze" in the words of some

and I cant even hate him anymore, the hatred disappeared

[graceful belfry]

Turns to the reader and speaks

[prisma idol]

SABER

[trim lily]

you got a divine revelation

[tranquil blade]

I remember distinctly thinking "I'm supposed to hate him why is he so cool right now" and then I woke up

[scenic dirge]

Guys I don’t like Shamrock

[digital spear]

[tranquil blade]

BOOOOO

[trim lily]

objectively incorrect opinion

[tranquil blade]

To be fair he has like 5 lines of dialogue

[scenic dirge]

Wait wha

[prisma idol]

Why not

[scenic dirge]

Wouldn’t you like to know Bluko

[digital spear]

This is the power of Oda

[scenic dirge]

MIND CONTROL

[upbeat yarrow]

swap shanks with jesus and its exactly how the crusades started

[trim lily]

oda managed to convert me after all this years

[graceful belfry]

This guy doesn’t like St. Patrick’s Day

[trim lily]

he really did it

[tranquil blade]

This is actually how it was too

[scenic dirge]

Avery hates Shanks but likes Shamrock?

[prisma idol]

Dread it but we ALL will become shanks fans

[tranquil blade]

I dont hate Shanks anymore

[trim lily]

shamrock is just shanks but better

[scenic dirge]

Oh shit

[digital spear]

Evan paid ZERO attention to the chat

[scenic dirge]

Character development

[prisma idol]

Its just a matter of when

[trim lily]

[scenic dirge]

Bro I come into chat, say some dumbass shit for 5 minutes, then dip

Repeat

[upbeat yarrow]

isnt that the overall discord experience

[prisma idol]

Acting like retired staff while being actual staff

[lament socket]

Yo twin

[tranquil blade]

I could understand not liking Shamrock if it's off the basis of him being still so new, and worrying that he'll get like a poorly done redemption

[scenic dirge]

That’s not why

[tranquil blade]

Oh

[prisma idol]

Evan just wants to hate

Respect

[lament socket]

Hate is a cultural identity of the one piece community

We shrivel up and DIE if we don't hate for 30 minutes

[prisma idol]

At the rate you and YC are going Glue is going to replace true in your everyday vocabulary

[digital spear]

I understand you but the way how Averys Shanks hate was lifted off like a curse after she had a dream of him beating Kaido and having a really cool oneliner is really crazy and sounds like she found god

[tranquil blade]

I actually woke up from that dream with tears in my eyes

[digital spear]

LETS GLUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[digital spear]

THIS IS INSANE

[tranquil blade]

It's like actual insanity

[graceful belfry]

Shamrock is cool imo cause there’s a few ways that Oda could interestingly explore his character. That being said, the cooking process hasn’t begun yet, and it’s not surprising that people aren’t sold on his existence yet

[prisma idol]

It was so peak

[scenic dirge]

I just don’t think he was a very necessary or organic addition. I like Shanks a lot and I like the Figarland plotline that’s to come. But there’s something about Shamrock’s existence that doesn’t really land for me. And idk why tbh, but I think him literally being Shanks’ identical twin makes the allure and mystique of Shanks himself feel a bit less impactful. Again, probably because they look the exact same. Which might seem a bit silly but oh well

[prisma idol]

https://tenor.com/view/one-peak-one-piece-one-piece-cry-its-so-peak-gif-13413926760013023520

[scenic dirge]

We’ll see

[plucky fog]

Hello

[scenic dirge]

Still too early to speak on Shamrock ig, but just conceptually, not a huge fan

[lament socket]

I'm weeping what do you mean shanks appeared to you in a dream asking you to like him

And it worked

[tranquil blade]

It sounds so fake but it's like actually real

[plucky fog]

I'm looking for a Minecraft friend.

[scenic dirge]

HUH?? 😭

[lament socket]

Avery.... Stop the agenda Avery

[tranquil blade]

I cant stop now

[sweet anvil]

Yo this nigga cried over shanks im dying 😭

[lament socket]

No i mean that's what shanks told you

Stop the hate calendar

Agenda

[prisma idol]

Avery had a prophecy from Oda himself

[lament socket]

Bro this is the funniest thing I read this year

[digital spear]

@scenic dirge this is why I said Oda is controlling our minds to love Shanks, this is even his writing style

[craggy vapor]

I decided to ask a girl out I like next tuesday. Should I ask her if she likes One Piece?

[sweet anvil]

He’s describing this dream about shanks like a religious experience

[prisma idol]

Good thing we still have 348 days left

[muted hedge]

no

[sweet anvil]

No

[lament socket]

I don't think anything is going to beat Avery having a spiritually mystical experience with a Shanks dream

[clever apex]

no

[sweet anvil]

Actually it depends

If you’ve known her for a long time and know she watches anime

[tranquil blade]

I'm convinced Oda and I happened to be asleep at the same time and he astral projected into my dream to make me see the appeal of Shanks

It has to be

[upbeat yarrow]

i think it has to do with just shanks stepping out of the mystique and feeling more like a living, breathing character
sort of the same happened, a lot more mixed opinion for character like kaido and roger exist now that they are pretty fleshed out, at least thats how i see it

[lament socket]

Weight lifted off of her shoulders as if shanks haters are cursed with some cruel primordial spell which shanks himself lifted off of jer

😭😭😭

[tranquil blade]

😭

[craggy vapor]

ok then

[digital spear]

!rmd 11months will something beat Avery having a spiritually mystical Shanks dream experience in 2026

[sweet anvil]

Oda astral projected this manga panel into my dream to show how much of a bum he is

[lament socket]

I will return to this very moment and reveal if something has

[sweet anvil]

Idk if it’s possible 😭

[tranquil blade]

The dream was too peak... there's no going back to Shanks hating now

[digital spear]

Okay important who is stronger

Shanks or Mihawk...

[tranquil blade]

https://tenor.com/view/lowtiercat-ptsdcat-gif-2094566730569540919

[lament socket]

It is saved in my calendar

Saved as a birthday

[digital spear]

The way chat silenced for a moment was crazy

[lament socket]

Celebration of the day I learned of this groundbreaking event

[tranquil blade]

Idk if I can answer YC...

ummm

They're equals maybe?

[lament socket]

Shanks he clearly off screened Kaido and said a Leon Kennedy one liner

[digital spear]

Damn I didnt know your Mihawk glaze was that crazy too

[tranquil blade]

Maybe Shanks just ever so slightly higher

Idk

[tranquil blade]

The logical side of me wants to say Mihawk, but it's like

It's like left brain right brain stuff

[unkempt sable]

Mihawk

[latent hamlet]

Mihawk also barely gets action

[thick mango]

im wondering what mihawk can do

[latent hamlet]

Granted, same with shanks but shanks is more.... "active"

[thick mango]

cause like.. he has to win any fight against not zoro

[tranquil blade]

cut things I guess

[latent hamlet]

Mihawk just wants to drink wine

[thick mango]

is the cross guild expected to be in the anti WG coalition you think? I would assume so

[unkempt sable]

The ability to upscale from any and all swordmen

[lament socket]

World's strongest swordsman (except shanks roger rocks big mom vista thriller bark luffy tashigi)

[tranquil blade]

Illya is gonna be disappointed if she comes back

[latent hamlet]

They would
Because the wg is bad for business

[golden valley]

Mihawk coming to Elbaf

[lament socket]

Just to clarify I'm joking

[latent hamlet]

They arent stopping the wg for altruistic reasons

[hoary steppe]

Helo chat

[sweet anvil]

Mihawk lowkey mid diffs imu

[golden valley]

i cant condone this glaze

Mihawk isn’t even mid-diffing big mom

[latent hamlet]

Plot twist: mihawk has the covenant but forced it to give him powers without mind control

[hoary steppe]

What the hell

[sweet anvil]

This is just a mihawk upscale

[golden valley]

Plus, Mihawk cant mid diff his mother

[sweet anvil]

Mihawk > harald

[golden valley]

Migawk and imu are related

[unkempt sable]

[lament socket]

Imu stabbed the posters with a sword LETSSSSS GOOOO

[hoary steppe]

Fun fact

Mohawk more human than s hawk

[sweet anvil]

Why not

[hoary steppe]

U might be cooking

[lament socket]

https://tenor.com/view/mihawk-one-piece-agenda-piece-mihawk-upscale-mrbeep-gif-4652002396828019758

Im all for upscaling mihawk since every mihawk upscale means

https://tenor.com/view/another-vista-upscale-vista-one-piece-one-piece-agenda-agenda-piece-gif-15289568797106535655

[hoary steppe]

What is YC typin bro

[sweet anvil]

I mid diff my mother

[unkempt sable]

Real question is prime harald and rocks vs prime WB and Roger

[lament socket]

A detailed report of averys dream I hope

An SCP file

[latent hamlet]

Tbh its hard to say

[hoary steppe]

Based on my calculation

Yesn’t

[latent hamlet]

Cuz harald and rocks are dead by that time and we dont have many comparisons

[unkempt sable]

[latent hamlet]

Besides one piece is a story of
"They're dead? MOVE ASIDE FOR THE NEW KIDS"

[latent hamlet]

Like they get over the top dogs real quick

[sweet anvil]

Use your imagination

[hoary steppe]

LMAO

[unkempt sable]

Are Roger and WB kids tho

[lament socket]

Zoro kills Kaido then the raid will fails at the end of Wano I'm calling it

[muted hedge]

https://x.com/Toji_Feet_Lover/status/2012548643786473515/photo/1

Cleopatra🧚‍♂️✨️ (@Toji_Feet_Lover)

Don't ruin it with AI slop
#digitalartwork #ONEPIECE

X · Jan 17, 2026, 3:32 PM

[sweet anvil]

Whoever you like more is stronger

[latent hamlet]

"Kaido and BM together? Its the return of the rocks pirates!"

dies
"Damn. The trinity is the real stuff now"

[sweet anvil]

That’s how I decide things

[unkempt sable]

[muted hedge]

https://x.com/Ruca5240/status/2012521577561383158/photo/1

Ruca (@Ruca5240)

実写ロビンちゃん😭🙏

X · Jan 17, 2026, 1:45 PM

[latent hamlet]

If I had to pick I'd say harald and rocks probably win more often but its feasible they can lose depending on context and certain scenarios

[sweet anvil]

And if people disagree you should act like their opinion makes no sense

[hoary steppe]

What if ppl agree

[sweet anvil]

Whitebeards fruit is lowkey an issue

[sweet anvil]

Then they’re right

[hoary steppe]

Huh

[lament socket]

YC is still writing his novel

[latent hamlet]

Hence why I think it really depends
Cuz i would consider rocks and harald stats and haki probably a bit higher but white room fight theory is meh

[lament socket]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[unkempt sable]

When aren’t they

[hoary steppe]

[latent hamlet]

Maybe in 1 scenario WB loses cuz he didnt use his fruit enough. Or maybe too much

[sweet anvil]

We lowkey haven’t seen whitebeard fight

Like the guy only clashes

[latent hamlet]

Maybe in another wb wins cuz he managed to land a fruit slash that fucked up rocks/harald a bit too much that day

[sweet anvil]

In his prime

At least

[latent hamlet]

So....eh

[hoary steppe]

Cuz noone match his power

[latent hamlet]

I'd probably say 55-60/100 leaning towards rocks+harald

Besides
Was rocks even in his prime

[unkempt sable]

I would say yes

[latent hamlet]

Same with harald

[sweet anvil]

I think he would’ve got stronger

[hoary steppe]

My headcanon says prime WB = domi reversi xebec

[sweet anvil]

Not by much

[sweet anvil]

Alr buddy let’s not go too far here

[latent hamlet]

The guy has a long lifespan. What counts as a giant's prime

[lament socket]

I'm genuinely getting intimidated by what YC writing rn

[hoary steppe]

[hoary steppe]

I mean roger and garp aren’t on their prime tho

[unkempt sable]

Holy weevil upscale

[lament socket]

Industrial revolution and it's consequences

[sweet anvil]

It’s not like they were leagues away from their prime though

If I had to guess after the haki bloom from that fight they were probably pretty close

[hoary steppe]

Looking by how luffy jump from fighting YC1 to yonko

[plucky fog]

hi

[hoary steppe]

Yee thats big

[plucky fog]

How are you

[latent hamlet]

Ye i dont think GV Roger + Garp was massively far from their "prime"

[hoary steppe]

Idk its just me

[sweet anvil]

They were 40 and the strongest in the world at that time

[hoary steppe]

Yup

Im just guessing numbers

[sweet anvil]

Idk how much they could’ve grown

[latent hamlet]

Even imu praised pre-covenant harald for his power i believe

[sweet anvil]

Considering they were at the peak of the world

[lament socket]

I'm staring at the YC is typing... Message in awe

He's genuinely writing a commentary on the english dictionary

[latent hamlet]

Its possible harald got stronger than rocks post GV pre covenant

[sweet anvil]

He’s a peaceful guy

He was fighting fodder pirates

[hoary steppe]

His dna boost him

[sweet anvil]

Only

Idk how much stronger he would’ve got

[hoary steppe]

Xebec was a mere human

[latent hamlet]

But he's gotten plenty of action

[sweet anvil]

Against no names

[lament socket]

Something makes me wanna think Roger and Garp were close to their prime if not at it

Because if not

[sweet anvil]

He probably got marginally stronger

[lament socket]

That heavily discounts rocks

[sweet anvil]

Age wise as well

Shanks and mihawk are around 40 roughly

And this might be just me but I feel like they’re advertised as in their prime

[latent hamlet]

Realistically it doesnt seem like OP characters tend to train and if they do its offscreen
They're more likely to get more powerful through constant action

[deep chasm]

I think it would make more sense if they were in their primes when roger reached the one piece, rather than them having fell off by then

[sweet anvil]

Roger was already sick by then

[deep chasm]

they still woulda been battling plenty post GV, outside of Harald ig

[lament socket]

At the same time not growing in like 30 years would be odd

[deep chasm]

I dont think the sickness made him weaker until his last days

[muted hedge]

Crocus said that the sickness that Roger had didn't halter any of his combative capabilities

[snow locust]

I mean we already know Rocks killed an Admiral in the Holy Land and hardly had a scratch on him, so you can’t discredit him that much regardless

[deep chasm]

or else crocus wouldnt be saying hes good to fight

[tranquil blade]

Pretty sure in one of the chapters after Rocks died it says the pirates continued to grow

[sweet anvil]

He lived like 13 years after god valley

[latent hamlet]

The sickness was just a time limit on Roger's life if anything

[hoary steppe]

Ye it is

[tranquil blade]

So I assume every major pirate had gotten stronger after God Valley

Except the ones that died

[deep chasm]

yea

[deep chasm]

WB is like

a definite

[sweet anvil]

True

[lament socket]

My question is had the people rocks ran the gauntlet against surpassed him

[sweet anvil]

If I had to guess

[latent hamlet]

Most likely yea
The way they imply after the rocks pirates split up shit got super rocky with many pirates vying for turf, power, and crew

[lament socket]

Or some of them at least

[tranquil blade]

and Kaido and BM in Wano were explicitly said to be much stronger than they were in their Rocks days

[latent hamlet]

They most likely all got stronger fighting each other

[sweet anvil]

Prime age for Roger and garp is from after GV until Roger is caught

[muted hedge]

Roger, Garp and Whitebeard probably surpassed Xebec at least

[snow locust]

I think Roger and WB definitely surpassed him, and Kaido and BM possibly did too

[sweet anvil]

Idk about kaido and bm

[lament socket]

Ok if Kaido and Big Mom surpassed rocks then he's not all that in the end

[latent hamlet]

Do u guys think pre covenant post gv harald is above Rocks

[lament socket]

No disrespect to Kaido and Big Mom I have Kaido #1 of this gen but

C'mon gang

[sweet anvil]

Roger wb and garp are the only guys I can imagine surpassing rocks and harald

[lament socket]

Like from a storytelling perspective I don't see anyone surpassing rocks but if someone did then only the goat trio

[deep chasm]

I will have to say no

[tranquil blade]

Garp is less explicitly said but he did train after GV still, we know that because of his battleship bags training with Kuzan and because he trained before fighting Chinjao

[digital spear]

Its logical that a high ranking celestial dragon like Garling wouldve had multiple children, if one got lost he wouldve had more, because the CDs are about prestige and securing the family.

But Shamrock seems like Evil Shanks because he is his identical twin. Since Shanks also was in the Imu ranks before it wouldve been fun if he acted for him as a double agent or because he has to for a grander goal or something, but Shamrock just takes that away and is just Holy Knight Shanks in person even with his face and all

And the moment where Shanks visits the Gorosei was still not revealed if it was him or Shamrock? Wasnt that the point or were we just supposed to think in a few chapters in Elbaf that Shanks is evil. So yeah currently Shamrock feels a bit like a device to give us evil Shanks without cracking the image we are supposed to have of Odas golden haki boy. All that said, this might be too unfair about a character who just appeared there can easily be more to Shamrocks character

[sweet anvil]

I wonder how old rocks was

[snow locust]

The reason I say Kaido and BM possibly did is bc if you think Rocks > Kaido/BM then by extension you have to think Loki is like, massively stronger than Kaido

[sage temple]

I think they're equal

[sweet anvil]

If I had to guess he was like 3-4 years older

Than Roger

[sage temple]

Yeah Loki being stronger than Kaido isn't crazy

It's not like a plothole

[tranquil blade]

I think he was in his 40's at least, maybe close to 50

[latent hamlet]

I could imagine harald being slightly stronger but not by much. Maybe instead of a 5/10 fights its more like 6/10

[tranquil blade]

I feel like he's a little older than the rest of them

[latent hamlet]

Not enough to truly make a significant difference

[sage temple]

Loki being stronger than a lot of Yonko is possible

[sweet anvil]

I’m starting to think oda doesn’t really care about the power scaling aspect of things

[snow locust]

I don’t think it’s crazy either, but I’m saying Loki would be massively stronger than him, which seems odd to me

[latent hamlet]

But harald probably had a much higher ceiling on account of his genetics and lifespan

[lament socket]

I mean he's writing a shonen he has to care a LITTLE

[deep chasm]

chinjao vs rocks becomes a real conversation

[lament socket]

But he doesn't focus on it

[sage temple]

It just isn't odd

But to each their own I guess

[sweet anvil]

I got shanks and primebeard above him fs

[digital spear]

What Shamrock already offers is at least 1 cool matchup possibility and a cool sword

[lament socket]

To me powerscaling is just for the lore

[sweet anvil]

Big mom and luffy below him

[lament socket]

So some hierarchy has to be clear

[sage temple]

Okay well I got Shanks and Whitebeard below him

[tranquil blade]

I mean Chinjao was a notable pirate he just has a bad rep in the fandom because all we saw was him losing a clash against Garp and then losing to his grandson in the current day right after

[lament socket]

And rocks roger garp and wb are amongst those who cannot be surpassed

[latent hamlet]

Now that I think about it
In terms of a single lone combatant
Imu-Harald probably was #1 in the verse until fruit loki + ragnir huh

[lament socket]

Idc about feats or agenda here just lorewise

[latent hamlet]

Or at least top 5 minimum

[tranquil blade]

Which is a pretty big fall from grace considering how strong Garp was in Hachinosu

[lament socket]

Idk who's among them is stronger that might not matter as they're portrayed as equals

[snow locust]

I think it’s odd to hype up one character as the strongest guy around and then be like “jk there was this guy living like one island away from him who could’ve beaten him without too much difficulty”

[lament socket]

But rocks was portrayed as someone even above them

[deep chasm]

#1..

[lament socket]

I suppose he could've been surpassed but idk man

[sage temple]

Imu-Harald was #1 in the verse but Harald let Loki kill him. This doesn't take away from the fact that Loki is likely the only one in 8 centuries to have actually killed a regen user, and Loki took a hit from Imu-Harald easily

[trim lily]

in terms of story they’re going to be surpassed eventually by this generation

[latent hamlet]

Probably
And im counting imu's power boosts

[lament socket]

By this one yes

Or Luffy at least

I don't have anyone else nearing that tier

[sweet anvil]

Does it make sense to say imu harald because it wasn’t really the same as the way Saturn and Gunko were possessed

[lament socket]

Blackbeard ok yeah him

[trim lily]

koby will likely surpass garp

[latent hamlet]

The way they spoke of imu-harald, they basically make him out to be a nigh unstoppable force that no 1 could beat except fruit ragnir loki

[lament socket]

Sure him too

[sweet anvil]

He was forced to follow orders but he didn’t have the eyes right

[muted hedge]

definitely

[latent hamlet]

Plus imu-harald was so cracked, that losing harald scared imu off for years

[muted hedge]

Sabo surpassing Dragon, Luffy surpassing Shanks and Koby surpassing Garp

[sage temple]

Well Loki has been kept secret so I don't get why we're supposed to have known about him. Kaido likely had no idea who he was so no reason to incorporate him into the rankings of strongest creature

[hoary steppe]

Kaido got powecrept

[sweet anvil]

I don’t think kaido got power crept

[frigid gulch]

I don’t think this stuff really means Loki stomps Kaido or Luffy or w/e

[muted hedge]

Kaido isn't the one who gave him the strongest creature epithet

that's decided by the world at large

[sweet anvil]

If he for some reason reappeared he would be stronger for no reason at all

[frigid gulch]

Kaido hasn’t been powercrept

That’s pure nonsense

[muted hedge]

a similair case as Mihawk who didn't declare himself as the world's strongest swordsman either

[sweet anvil]

Because in one piece characters strength and scaling isn’t really consistent

[hoary steppe]

[latent hamlet]

I think kaido's in an awkward spot because we see him against growing underdogs

[frigid gulch]

Fans have a disease

[sage temple]

The world at large seemed to keep Loki under covers though

[latent hamlet]

We dont see kaido against the other greats

[deep chasm]

this is true but I will be shocked if the idea is Loki is fully just the strongest character alive , especially since shanks did stop him

[frigid gulch]

In trying to powercreep everyone in the past

[sweet anvil]

Kaido isn’t powercrept yet

But he will be

[trim lily]

given the nature of this story threats later will be more dangerous or harder to beat than those in the past

[muted hedge]

it took a whole nation to beat Kaido and a bit more

[digital spear]

Isnt it interesting how theyre the 3 generations of Monkey Ds, but the older ones have another student thats not from their family to pass their teachings on

Which is why I think the eos trio Luffy (king of the pirates) Coby (hero of the marines) and Sabo (leader of the revolution) will be the 3 pillars that will oppose the World Government, each of them either is, or was taught by a Monkey D.

[muted hedge]

yeah i agree 100%

[frigid gulch]

This whole conquerors stuff had people tryna claim he got power crept

[latent hamlet]

To me, im still not sure if we can consider Imu as #1. Assuming we are not, Loki may be #1 as a solo combatant, but he probably wasnt so far ahead compared to current shanks

[muted hedge]

i feel like it has been set up since day one

[frigid gulch]

When in reality

It was regular conquerors coating

[snow locust]

I’m talking from a narrative perspective it kinda makes it cheap in retrospect to present Kaido as this unstoppable force and then not long later introduce a character significantly stronger, and not even have that character be an arc villain or smth. Like I said I’m not opposed to Loki being stronger than Kaido, I think it’s about 50/50 rn, but it would sorta dampen any reread Wano knowing that the “worlds strongest creature” could get mid-diffed by someone living 2 islands away

[deep chasm]

you think theres someone stronger than imu?

[sweet anvil]

I’m not buying this koby agenda

[craggy vapor]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Sengoku is behind all the title hoax

[unkempt sable]

Ragnir>kaido

[sweet anvil]

I don’t think any title is false

[digital spear]

And this is why their faces look so similar lol

Oda even changed Cobys over the time to look more like Luffy

[sweet anvil]

Nvm

[muted hedge]

lol yeah that's funny

[sweet anvil]

Inconsistent scaling that all trust

[frigid gulch]

This Loki stuff I feel is being taken a bit far

[latent hamlet]

Well we have to take imu's powers into account
Harald still was getting kinda fucked up from Gaban Shanks etc, but his immortality just allowed him to stop caring. To me, he was #1 but not in a "my stats are wildly superior"

[digital spear]

Coby doubters in massive 2026, go back to the Barbell waiting room 😭

[sweet anvil]

If kaido was to somehow come back he would be stronger than Loki is what I believe

[ashen perch]

It seems quite clear to me that Loki is fundamentally better equipped than anybody to deal with immortals given his fruit is one of the two that was going to let Xebec take over the world. I don't think Imu is aware of this and so he's acting like the strongest guy ever must be in Elbaf

[frigid gulch]

But I pretty much always believed hed be up there

[muted hedge]

it's very impressive for sure but i feel like there's a huge amount of recency bias at play as well, which is natural

[sweet anvil]

Because when characters come back oda makes them stronger for no reason

[trim lily]

well some have more reason than others

like loki should be weaker now than he was 5 years ago

[latent hamlet]

For all we know
Imu could have insanely high combat stats without counting regen/immortality

[sweet anvil]

What did Law do between the end of the dressrosa fight and the rooftop to get that strong bro

[latent hamlet]

And he could have more powers than we expect

[sweet anvil]

What did crocodile do in jail to get that strong

Is there a secret impel down diet

[craggy vapor]

imagine BB with Yami Yami and Ragnir. Sucks his opponents and ragnirs them to dust

[latent hamlet]

He realized "...its time to stop relying on my fruit"
Then still relied on it

[muted hedge]

he can do that with the quake though

he wouldn't really need Ragnir

[frigid gulch]

Croc got upscaled

[sweet anvil]

Crocodile got starved and chained up in sea stone and somehow got stronger

[sage temple]

Okay well it also depends on what they mean by "creature" like Imu and the Gorosei are also creatures but that doesn't mean Kaido beats them. It's pretty obvious that the creature thing is more of an exaggeration and Loki isn't given much mention since he's been swept under the cover by the grand scheme of things. Loki being stronger than Kaido isn't really a contradiction or anything it's literally just title-scaling at it's finest

[snow locust]

Mental image training

[sweet anvil]

I think it’s obvious oda isn’t too fussed about the consistency of the power scaling

[ashen perch]

Well tbf I feel like torture is the sort of the thing that would make characters stronger in the series

[sweet anvil]

That’s why when people try to powercliff kaido it doesn’t make sense to me

[frigid gulch]

Law coulda just gotten stronger from Dressrosa

Being pushed to the edge

[sweet anvil]

Because if kaido came back rn he would be stronger

[snow locust]

I never said it’s a contradiction, I’ve agreed with you that there’s nothing that makes it impossible from an in-story perspective

[latent hamlet]

The frieza method

[deep chasm]

law also couldve arguably been getting stronger during the BM fight

[latent hamlet]

"I was in constant suffering so I image trained thinking I was built different"

"Now I've mastered my abilities even further"

[sage temple]

I wouldn't really be surprised since there's no definite read on Shanks and Loki interacting being a 1 on 1 fight and it adds to the inconclusivity since Loki seemed stronger than Shanks 14 years ago

[ashen perch]

Why are people so obsessed with cliffing Kaido anyways, it's perfectly okay for him to be the strongest when he was called the strongest, it's not gonna hurt you

[frigid gulch]

It’s not like we see what these characters do all the time

[sweet anvil]

Luffy was pushed just as much and went through an even harder event at wci and saw just an equal amount of growth

[frigid gulch]

They could be training

[deep chasm]

yea I know

[snow locust]

Agenda Piece

[latent hamlet]

Tbh I dont think croc got physically better during impel down
He just fought better

[muted hedge]

it seems very likely that Shanks stopped Loki from going to Marijoa

[sweet anvil]

Dressrosa to wano is like a week bro

[frigid gulch]

Cause it also depends on what Oda wants to do

[latent hamlet]

He didnt act like an overly superior guy he just locked in

[sweet anvil]

That’s my point

[craggy vapor]

true. gura gura could maybe deal more area of effect damage while Ragnir deals more damage to a single target.

[frigid gulch]

Even still

Nah your point mainly made it seem like it was solely that

[muted hedge]

like, Loki calling Shanks a coward would also line up if Loki was inclined to go to Marijoa and Shanks forcefully stopped him in his tracks and got him back to Elbaph

[snow locust]

Weren’t they in Wano for several weeks though

[sweet anvil]

Beginning

Of wano I meant

And end of dressrosa

[frigid gulch]

Plus I meant up until the raid

[deep chasm]

yea

[sweet anvil]

Even so

[ashen perch]

its all unimportant, Law thought "I'm weak, let me train to be stronger" and then he got stronger

[sweet anvil]

It’s like a month

If a month of training is enough to do that

[digital spear]

Whats more, they are the 3 youngest people in this spread, everyone else is 39 or older

So theyre the most important people in the battle for One Piece who also represent the next generation

[sage temple]

Yeah at the time I think Loki was searching for the Galley La and Shanks realized his grand plan and captured him

[snow locust]

Yea but I mean they could’ve been training while they were in Wano. Thats what Luffy did and he went from getting one-tapped by Kaido to actually gaining his respect and being able to hurt him with
advanced armament

[frigid gulch]

By the raid, he can use awakening, it’s just super draining. After Wano…

[sweet anvil]

Then what would law do in a year

[frigid gulch]

He uses it off rip against BB

[ashen perch]

His fruit is like one of the greatest fruits ever, so naturally once he got awakening that was a crazy boost

[muted hedge]

yeah they're the new generation corner stones for sure

[ashen perch]

I don't think this is how it works

[sweet anvil]

A year of learning haki to a better degree ?

[snow locust]

Anyone who works out knows you get the fastest gains at the beginning of your training and then you start to plateau

[muted hedge]

i think that Shanks warned Loki to not head out for Marijoa as it wouldn't be wise, Loki didn't listen to Shanks so Shanks made sure that he got out of harms way as it wasn't the time for Loki's defeat yet as Joyboy hadn't arrived

[ashen perch]

Sure but his strength won't be growing at the same level

Awakening was the big difference maker

[latent hamlet]

Wasn't awakening described as your mind lining up with your fruit
It doesnt seem like you have to get that through training, its more like a realization

[deep chasm]

I mean its just anime logic. The new generation is gonna be young people cuz thats shonen, and theyre gonna have crazy jumps in power cuz no one wants to watch them slowly grow like people in the old gen did

[sweet anvil]

And law has used armament like 3 times

[deep chasm]

I dont think youre meant to read much into it

[sweet anvil]

I’m just making the point

[frigid gulch]

Oda def adjusts it

But I think in universe explanations would just be that stuff

[trim lily]

law has always been very strong so him being capable in wano doesn’t feel like that much of a stretch

[ashen perch]

That seemed to be about Zoans, never explained how it works with Paramecia

[frigid gulch]

But it’s both

[deep chasm]

People like roger wb etc dont reach their primes til 30,40 if not 50. Characters in shonen just grow very fast for the sake of a fun story

[sweet anvil]

That if a character is to come back after a while even if they weren’t training they would be stronger

[trim lily]

he just learnt how to use his fruit better and got an awakening

[muted hedge]

Loki already underestimating the World Government said everything it needed to say
then adding onto that Gaban and Shanks reaction to it

[sage temple]

Yeah thats prolly it

[deep chasm]

yea fs

[sweet anvil]

Just because everyone else in the story has gotten stronger

[frigid gulch]

I don’t think Kaido would need to come back stronger

Cause Loki’s ability kinda separates him

From everyone atm

[tranquil blade]

This is basically happened with Crocodile before the timeskip

[frigid gulch]

Just that specific aspect

[sweet anvil]

Yeah he was my main example

[frigid gulch]

Otherwise Kaido’s showcase is fine

[ashen perch]

Kaido could return the exact same in the very final battle in the series and he wouldn't look out of place, why would he need to get stronger lol

[snow locust]

Bounty scaling is the best scaling actually. Loki is only in the 2 billions which means he’s weaker than every admiral

[trim lily]

jack is nearly as strong as katakuri

[frigid gulch]

The very same conquerors coating that debuted in that battle is relevant rn

[sweet anvil]

Kaido would appear stronger than what he was at wano

[ashen perch]

Well

[sweet anvil]

Imo

[muted hedge]

i wonder if Ragnir is the reason for why the galley-ra giants are frozen in ice

[ashen perch]

I think he appeared the strongest in Wano personally

[muted hedge]

and if so, i wonder why Ragnir would do it

[snow locust]

True. I mean a mammoth is way cooler than mochi

[trim lily]

i still hold current luffy would lose to kaido

[golden valley]

No shot

[trim lily]

the thing with kaido is it was a team effort from everyone involved to take him down

[sweet anvil]

Wait didn’t it say no one ever used Ragnir or am I making stuff up

[golden valley]

Kaido is already stated to hit his prime

[frigid gulch]

awakened Kaido

[trim lily]

sorry he’s not cool enough for that

[muted hedge]

it said that no king has been recorded to have been seen as worthy

[ashen perch]

Current Luffy loses to Kaido and its high diff

[golden valley]

The only plausible thing is awakening but i doubt hes fit for his fruit

[sweet anvil]

This isn’t my argument

[latent hamlet]

Wasn't the Azure dragon supposed to be a guardian protector
Doesn't seem like kaido would ever reach that

[golden valley]

Ok, then how else would he come back stronger

[frigid gulch]

Yea

[golden valley]

Wano Kaido is his peak

[snow locust]

Remember when Luffy said he’d just kick Loki’s ass if Loki went on a rampage bro is biting off more than he can chew

[trim lily]

who knows how zoan awakenings work at this point

we don’t even know why some people use black clouds and some have white

[tranquil blade]

I dont think Kaido would need to be stronger if he came back, he just would be weaker than half a dozen people

[sweet anvil]

Purely by the will of oda is my point but kaido might be a bad example of what I was trying to say considering he hasn’t been powercliffed yet

[latent hamlet]

Its said your mind has to equal your fruit right?

[tranquil blade]

but I dont think Kaido is coming back at all

[trim lily]

i don’t think so

[frigid gulch]

The fruit thinks Kaido sucks

[golden valley]

But Oda only makes characters stronger because they havent peaked

Crocodile didn’t peak in alabasta

[brittle basin]

TRUE

Goda

[golden valley]

Doflamingo
Katakuri
Have yet to peak

[frigid gulch]

[sweet anvil]

@golden valley my point was that if a character is powercrept then when they return even if they haven’t done anything to deserve being noticeably stronger they’ll appear to be stronger

[deep chasm]

I mean who would kaido even be weaker than thats been shown so far? I feel nothing has changed. He'd still be stronger than the gorosei and holy knights unless youre one to argue every immortal person is stronger than every non immortal. We already knew imu would be stronger. Any theories about shanks>kaido were already around back in wano.

Loki is the only new character that might be stronger than kaido

[brittle basin]

Anyways, superior translation tomorrow.

[snow locust]

My prediction is that Kaido will come back for 1 chapter in the final war and he’ll Boro Breath a Holy Knight into oblivion and then dip

[golden valley]

Sure. But I don’t think Kaido is one of them

[muted hedge]

i think that both Kaido and Big Mom should stay dead

[trim lily]

they should

[sweet anvil]

Or he does it so they fit into the story better ?

[frigid gulch]

It’s Kaidul’s time now

[trim lily]

you’re on the right side of history for thinking that

[golden valley]

There is always an inverse reason

[snow locust]

I mean it’s one piece and they were never stated to be dead in the first place

[tranquil blade]

I think they should too

[trim lily]

don’t let oda trick you into wanting fake out deaths

[muted hedge]

i just don't see what purpose they'd serve other than the shock of seeing them return

like, they aren't necessary anymore

[golden valley]

Dorry and Brogy are prolly the most questionable power growths

[sweet anvil]

Oh I forgot about them completely

[snow locust]

Yea but Oda keeps characters around unnecessarily all the time. Like why tf is Pound still alive

[tranquil blade]

The most I could see is BM having some unfinished business but idk if it warrants her comign back

[sage temple]

I don't see why that'd be the case. Jarul talked about the letter 56 years ago as if it was recent

[muted hedge]

i guess the best bet is the previous ice fruit user then

[snow locust]

Tbf even in Little Garden they had a pretty crazy feat of destroying that island-sized fish

[sage temple]

Yeah it would

[muted hedge]

well, i think it's a bit different considering the roles that Big Mom and Kaido had compared to Pound lol

[tranquil blade]

I think it's because Oda's scope changed massively, they were supposed to be a big deal then and now but he had to adjust their strength for the current saga

[sweet anvil]

Realistically the more I think about it Loki should be far and away the strongest character

[muted hedge]

my point is that Kaido and Big Mom have ran their race, i feel like it would be unnecessary to bring them back to the starting line

[sweet anvil]

But then he lost to shanks

Which doesn’t make sense

[muted hedge]

even more so if Kaido and Big Mom did return it would devalue the Wano arc as a whole to me

[tranquil blade]

It does

[snow locust]

I don’t think they’ll be relevant to the story anymore, but I also don’t believe they’re dead until I see corpses or until the story is over

[frigid gulch]

Maybe because he isn’t far and away the strongest

[golden valley]

I don’t think that changes the point, also its poop was Island sized, the Goldfish itself was like a large mountain. If you put Egghead Dorry and Brogy in Little Garden, I don’t think theres a world where Mr. 3 even remotely comes close to restraining them much less Mr. 5 explosions being detonated in their face and damn nearing KOing them

[latent hamlet]

Shanks probably jumped him ngl

[golden valley]

Yeah

Thats plausible

[sweet anvil]

He beat a largely amped harald after using his fruit for the first time

[tranquil blade]

It'd be kinda funny if all of this hype ends up resulting in Loki not being actually this godlike character who's stronger than Roger and Whitebeard and literally everyone

[digital spear]

Lets call it the Fidget Spinner Trio

[tranquil blade]

but also powerscaling is kinda like fake lol

[muted hedge]

good one, lol

[frigid gulch]

Ye but it didn’t look like Harald resisted

[sweet anvil]

Agreed

[frigid gulch]

After the first hit

[latent hamlet]

I think loki is probaaaably #1 but its not like insanely high difference

[tranquil blade]

All 3 of them would play with fidget spinners I think so this makes sense

[latent hamlet]

Gaban and Shanks still messed up harald, just not to actually win

[muted hedge]

this chapter also made it clear that Loki wasn't alone on the sea, he had a giant crew with him

[sweet anvil]

Loki should’ve have gotten decently stronger after that fight

[muted hedge]

so the giants we see when he proposed to Lola make sense now

[frigid gulch]

I’m just not surprised that a big beast like Loki at that point knocked him away

But what happens after is questionable imo

[snow locust]

I think the goldfish is meant to be about the same size as Little Garden, considering Dorry & Brogy killed those two sea kings that we see are the same length as the island, and I’m not sure how the fish would produce a poop larger than its own body. Though I do agree with the rest

[frigid gulch]

Did Harald not do anything because the first hit messed him up ?

[latent hamlet]

experience diff? Shanks jumped em? Who knows

[frigid gulch]

Or was it because his senses were knocked back into him

Or could he not do anything at all

It’s not just one possible answer

[sage temple]

Why are you saying that like the story definitvely says they dueled?

[sweet anvil]

Averys point of power scaling just being fake makes the most sense to me

[sweet anvil]

Oda loves to glaze shanks so I for some reason doubt he jumped him

[latent hamlet]

Well fights dont always come down to stats

There's always different factors

Maybe a certain attack used or unused

[sweet anvil]

Idk what factor would help shanks best Loki

[sage temple]

That's what they said about the castle incident saying Shanks would get the spotlight against Harald instead of Loki

[tranquil blade]

I dont actually think Oda is as consistent as people claim he is, like again Loki will do all of this impressive stuff and I could still see him losing to Shanks without some weird circumstances

[sage temple]

You always argue "Oda glaze" like it's definite Shanks win

[snow locust]

The fight being at sea. Just destroy Loki’s boat

[deep chasm]

exactly

[sage temple]

That's the most stupid argument that has resulted from One Piece

[sweet anvil]

He can fly

[sage temple]

Exactly it's so irritating

[snow locust]

Not confirmed, TCB translation says “jump”

[sweet anvil]

Oh fr ?

[frigid gulch]

We’ll see tmrw

It could be fly

[snow locust]

Yes, apparently the Japanese wording could be fly or jump, is what I heard

[sweet anvil]

Exactly

[golden valley]

From the Magazines explaining how the Goldfish works, its poop absorbs moisture from the sea water rapidly expanding, it’s why it can be mistaken as islands or even continents. And Sea beasts can get up to 5km’s, so it makes sense why those sea beasts Dorry n Brogy killed were that big

[sage temple]

Anyways since Loki and Shanks 1v1ing isn't really confirmed you can't act like it must happen because Oda glazes him

[frigid gulch]

Well we’ll prob get our answer

Next chapter

[sage temple]

Shanks could have definitely jumped him to play on the fact that he doesn't play by the rules

[sweet anvil]

I’m stating my headcanon when I say he lost to shanks

[clever idol]

I hope the w is fraudulent for Shanks

Need that

[snow locust]

Fair enough

[latent hamlet]

Also loki would only have the remains of surviving soldiers as backup

[tranquil blade]

Not to say Loki is weak, I'm sure he's right up there with the strongest pirates of this era at least, but I would wait before we say he's like an untouchable god compared to everyone else

[frigid gulch]

Defo

[sage temple]

Okay well I'm stating my headcanon when I say he got jumped by Shanks and Whitebeard/his crew

[sweet anvil]

I just think it’s the most probable scenario

[sweet anvil]

Ok ?

[snow locust]

Honestly I don’t think so

[sweet anvil]

Idk what you want me to say lmao

[sage temple]

Ok 👍

[snow locust]

Oda is rly dragging out everything to do with Loki

[clever idol]

Loki slipped and fell into the ocean

[wet condor]

What's going on in here

[frigid gulch]

Why not

He has to ascend

[unkempt sable]

!headcanon2

[tropic nova]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/814175126403940402/Untitled-1.png

[tranquil blade]

Hi music

[wet condor]

Hi Avery

[clever idol]

Shenanagins

[sage temple]

Yeah but these soldiers are more like servants and I don't see them doing much

[tranquil blade]

!!

What's up

[frigid gulch]

We’re already told he can jump/fly

[tranquil blade]

Oh wait you left for a bit

[frigid gulch]

I guess I should say

I’m assuming he can do it in base

[wet condor]

Nm, just chillin. Peepin in for a sec

[sage temple]

I'm showing you how headcanon doesn't really hold any importance in conversation

[wet condor]

Wbu?

[frigid gulch]

But if not then yea

[sweet anvil]

Socrates getting tight about me saying loki lost to shanks 💔

[tranquil blade]

I thought you just were busy, im alright

[wet condor]

Yeah I left for a lil' bit.

[snow locust]

Yea but there’s no guarantee he’ll do it next chapter or that we’ll see it happen. Oda has been hiding the fruit for so long, I think it’d be weird if he hid it during the climax of the flashback but then revealed it just to show how Loki ascends

[unkempt sable]

It do just be like that

[sage temple]

That isn't confirmed though so why say it like it's a fact, your headcanon doesn't really matter lmao

[latent hamlet]

Hence why I believe they were most likely subdued and then shanks and crew stopped Loki
I don't think the difference was loki>>>>>shanks or whatever either. Too many things

[sage temple]

God forbid I call out something that isn't true

[sweet anvil]

I didn’t mean it like a fact

[frigid gulch]

Ye that’s fair but I was thinking if he could do it in base then he can show it

[sweet anvil]

But ig it might’ve sounded like it

[snow locust]

Ah yea maybe

[wet condor]

I'll tell you now Suspect... with the way Loki is looking right now... the Loki glaze may be overpowering the Shanks glaze

I'm just saying

[sweet anvil]

Regardless if we all know it’s not fact why act like i meant it to be

[wet condor]

https://tenor.com/view/druski-shrug-idk-iono-hands-up-gif-7122581203490458147

[frigid gulch]

It’s a mythical so

[sage temple]

It usually implies a fact when you don't use anything like "I think" or "probably" instead

[sage temple]

I'm just calling out something that isn't true

[unkempt sable]

So how much work we think Loki is putting on imu in percentage (keep in mind he is injured unless he gets like a healing ability next chapter)

[frigid gulch]

Loki will magically heal too atp

[sage temple]

Probably similar to Luffy's work against Imu

[snow locust]

On Gunko-Imu? 100%

[sage temple]

I doubt Oda would sideline Luffy for this

[unkempt sable]

Loki top 1

[sweet anvil]

It’s headcanon but it’s not unreasonable

[frigid gulch]

To some extent tho, injuries are ignored by Oda when he wants

[unkempt sable]

I just hope Bonny gets involved in some type of way she’s too OP to not

[snow locust]

Gunko killed his dog which means Loki has to punt her off the island

[sage temple]

Although Loki seems stronger than Luffy, they could go 50/50 at the very least and 70/30 at the best

[sage temple]

Yeah it's headcanon and I was just making sure it was because you said it like it was a fact

[sweet anvil]

If Luffy is going equal with Loki oda is just having fun atp

[iron oriole]

Loki hard carried by his squirrel friend

[sage temple]

Wow someone can't do much without their weapon! What a shock

Gosh I wonder what the job of a weapon is

[unkempt sable]

That’s more of a reason he shouldn’t join the crew. Let’s just say he somehow get out of this battle unscathed he still has to rest for like months

[snow locust]

Tbf Loki is injured rn

[sweet anvil]

For aura

[iron oriole]

saying that as if he doesn't have a whole ass weapon that he ate

[sage temple]

Yeah but Luffy has MC powers and Loki is injured

[iron oriole]

[unkempt sable]

Ragnir is 95% of lokis aura

[sage temple]

He can't have multiple weapons?

Kaido has a club and a fruit

Big Mom has a sword and a fruit

But when it comes to Loki it's bad

[iron oriole]

as of rn, he's never without a weapon

[sweet anvil]

Notice how dragon has no weapon

[sage temple]

Holy double standards lmfao

[iron oriole]

who ever said it was bad?

[sage temple]

He didn't use Ragnir from what we saw when he was in his Zoan form

So

I don't get what you're trying to say

[iron oriole]

putting words in peoples mouths isn't good Socrates

all i said is that he's hard carried by Ragnir

[sage temple]

You said he was getting carried by it that implies it's a bad thing, I'm telling you depending on a weapon is usually how fights work