also-manga

[trim lily]

estrid knew she had to be a bad mother for the sake of the greater good

what a sacrifice

[distant vine]

In fairness to Oda if the guy asked him "Why are so many fathers dead?" I'm sure he'd give a similar answer

[brittle basin]

So, Oda kills mothers and makes fathers abandon their kids?

[runic dock]

If it wasn’t for Estrid , the perfect route for luffy wouldn’t have been opened up

Butterfly effect

[distant vine]

^

[grand flower]

No I’m saying that “it happens frequently” or “it happens consistently” probably isn’t why you dislike it because there’s lots of things in OP with that characteristic, you wouldn’t be able to enjoy OP at all if that’s the thing about it that bothers you

[distant vine]

Its a rule applied across the board but if you asked him to imagine a parent holding a child character back from adventure I assume he would imagine a housewife

[runic dock]

“Hey oda why are so many fathers , let alone parents in general , dead?”

“Look kid, are you friends with that other guy that asked a similar question? Wtf is going on here, I’m just doing it to make you feel sad stfu”

[grand flower]

It probably stems from how much wives have played thr role of the caretaker of the house and kids

It can give the impression that mom is the stickler parent cause she’s probably the one kids will be around most

[distant vine]

Yeah

[grand flower]

So that’s the parent theyll be hearing “don’t do that” and “no you can’t” and “that’s dangerous, no” from the most

[shell sinew]

who's mother is alive??

[grand flower]

Lufffy

Dadan is chilling on her mountain

[brittle basin]

Mine is alive. Good job, mom.

[distant vine]

Me and Shuron got it fr

[runic dock]

Puddings mom is definitely still alive

She has to be….

[shell sinew]

probably

[grand flower]

https://tenor.com/view/bornskywalker-dap-me-up-woody-woody-handshake-woody-toy-story-gif-26021440

Technically we don’t know that big moms mom is dead

[shell sinew]

we have big mom whos the mom of all moms

[runic dock]

True

[distant vine]

She can still be under the 150 cap

Its funny how Oda made that the cap while most old people are following IRL human lives

[shell sinew]

is gloriosa a mom?

[trim lily]

no

[potent pier]

We honestly don't know

[distant vine]

Surely we can have one 135 year old human and it wouldnt be disruptive

[trim lily]

poor gloriosa deserved better

[shell sinew]

someone made a mom status chart

blackbeard's mom survived god valley. Maybe thats why he's such a dickhead

[wraith mantle]

gloriossa lowkey the goat, she got her shit together and went back to amazon lily and became an elder

take care of her people

[brittle basin]

Does she even count since we can't be sure about Weevil?

[shell sinew]

I mean she's defo a mom, the question is if wb is the dad

[brittle basin]

I was thinking more do we consider Weevil even alive in the typical sense?

I mean I guess he can still be seen as a "son" if he's artificial.

[tranquil blade]

Have to update Ida to dead now…

💔

[brittle basin]

No you don't.

[runic dock]

Stussy is NOT a real mom

This list is cooked

[shell sinew]

🙁

[tranquil blade]

Buffy I’m sorry…

It has to happen

[runic dock]

She’s the caretaker of a Frankenstein monster

I guess if you wanna call Dr Frankenstein a dad

[shell sinew]

thats a lot of dead moms, oda is a savage only when it comes to moms man

any villains in the series can't seem to stay dead

[brittle basin]

this feels more accurate

[shadow vault]

Wait the female below ginnie isnt that bonney??? Why shes on the mom list

[runic dock]

She’s just guiding him toward a path of her own self fulfillment, not even motherly in the least bit

[sweet anvil]

So if you’re a good character and mom you die

[shell sinew]

someone should draw a cartoon of oda shootup up all these moms

[runic dock]

That’s the old lady Bonney stole her old form looks from

I guess people wanna call her bonneys mom for being her guardian or something

[distant vine]

All of these moms either keep their children home or support their adventures

Noticing...

[shadow vault]

Wait what?

I though it just bonney old version i don't remember any old lady similar to that

[runic dock]

There was an old lady in that church village Bonney stayed at , she gave her her hat , and when she wears it and turns old , she looks exactly like the old lady

[grand flower]

Yeah she's someone's grandma

[shadow vault]

I just search it yeah her name is conney

Fucking oda

[runic dock]

Ah yeah conney lol

[grand flower]

conney fine ass

[runic dock]

Before we knew it was an old lady , Bonney appeared in her old form and was actually recognized by the guards in reverie , this caused confusion in the fandom and people were trying to guess who she really was based off tha

Turns out it was conney look alike form

[vital heart]

hey guys

im tryna reach 1k "hey guys"'s

[grand flower]

Thought to myself

“Lemme give morjs chapter stream a chance”

The universe corrects you quickly

Who gives a fuck about tjis

[runic dock]

lmao

[wraith mantle]

probably not

[runic dock]

We need to pinpoint lokispower level tho!!

[shadow vault]

Yeah Conney was a queen and crazy both bonney and her have similar form

[wraith mantle]

maybe yes because harald has god knight powers

wonder if domi reversi buff is stronger than god knight contract buff

[iron oriole]

The answer is no because Harald is above domi Rocks

[runic dock]

The difference seems negligible

They’re always equal to me

[shadow vault]

Domi harald and domi rock?

[runic dock]

No , Harald isn’t Domi here

[grand flower]

Im just realizing

Another fishman that looks pretty much like a person

minus the tusks

[runic dock]

So Harald under holy knight symbol , and rocks in domi form, without holy knight symbol

[shadow vault]

I dont think harald survive domi rock tho man is a diff level beast

[runic dock]

Thy both get an imu buff and both get to be immortal , it practically doesn’t matter

[wraith mantle]

so the abnormal haki that shanks and gaban felt was just harald's?

[shadow vault]

Maybe because of the imu control too

[runic dock]

It could be haki with a tainted feeling to it , especially if they already know how harald haki feels like

[shadow vault]

The lightning was fully black

[runic dock]

Haki probably feels like th people it comes from

So Harald haki that feels off

Unnaturally boosted

[grand flower]

crazy enough i like OPscans translation of this better

Gaban just says "that's true. You and Buggy are our sons"

Definitively

I thought it was so sweet

[vital heart]

FUCK YOU

im kidding

[runic dock]

The link in the announcements tab is the link for the chapter that has this panel

[vital heart]

I was told to be nicer when defending tcb

[runic dock]

Did this serve not link tcb? Lol

[vital heart]

I love you Shuron ❤️ 🥰

I agree

[runic dock]

Or they just copied

[vital heart]

OPSCANS > TCB

[grand flower]

I love you too meek

[pulsar path]

How come this look like if I asked AI to make a live action of onepiece

Or no it looks like a paper back novel cover!

[vital heart]

Arsal Arsal Arsal

Arsal Arsal Arsal

Arsal Arsal Arsal

I just made a 3x3 matrix of Arsal's

What's the eigenarsal of this matrix?

[trim lily]

first youll have to figure out the determinarsal

[ruby moat]

arsal

[grand flower]

What kinda nerd ass shit

[vital heart]

LOL

[runic dock]

King of the singular pirate!

[runic dock]

Joyman

[brittle basin]

Reminds me of 16-bit era video game cover art when they were still using traditional media, with empahses on airbrushing.

[runic dock]

Me thinking the games were actually gonna look like that

[brittle basin]

gottem. and your wallet.

thank you for paying $70 USD in 1994 for SF Alpha 2.

[tranquil blade]

That's like 200 dollars now

[brittle basin]

gottem

[tranquil blade]

Is there any game worth paying that much for?

[runic dock]

Weren’t games like 40 bucks

Back then

[brittle basin]

PS1 games yes

SNES and N64? No.

[runic dock]

Nintendo classically overcharging

[brittle basin]

Prices varied, but the plastic put them on the higher priced side.

[tranquil blade]

Nintendo loves their money

[runic dock]

Good to see traditions don’t die

[tranquil blade]

What year is that

[runic dock]

60 dollars for madden 97 foh

[brittle basin]

96 supposedly

[dense haven]

zoro looks straight out of kpop demon hunters

[runic dock]

That was oda’s intention when he made Zoro

[hot cairn]

this is the most important thing to discuss about the chapter? Lmao

[iron oriole]

SNES my beloved first gaming system

[tranquil blade]

So the SNES was worth basically 270 if it was by today's standard of money

Honestly probably not the worst

[sage temple]

?

[dense haven]

you could buy a house with that money back then

[grand flower]

How slow you is

[brittle basin]

i'm assuming this is a reduced price too 'cause the SNES had already buy out for a few years back this point.

[sage temple]

What are you tryna say with those images

[runic dock]

Snes and pc were my first , deus ex, carmageddon , super mario world 3

[grand flower]

Genuinely what do you think

[dense haven]

yoshis island is goated

https://tenor.com/view/yoshi's-island-gif-yoshi-mario-super-mario-gif-7929478270979027650

[final trench]

Hajrudin will be king

[sage temple]

One Piece fans when faced with a question about their point and mad because you dont get their point

[final trench]

I dont think loki wants to stay on elbaf atp

[sage temple]

Clearly yeah

[tranquil blade]

So it would be like 400 dollars more like

I hate nintendo

[brittle basin]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-mario-baseball-mario-super-sluggers-cry-crying-gif-4496438716142452909

[final trench]

Facts

[runic dock]

Don’t Hajrduin say some shit before about wanting to be the best giant pirate too?

Not just king

[sweet anvil]

What if both Loki and Hajrudin mirror Luffy but in different ways

[tranquil blade]

That plastic pos could not have been worth that much money

[shadow vault]

[unique lagoon]

haj wants to be king
so he can unite all the clans

thats what i remember

[sage temple]

Oh look someone ate meat off of a stick woo hoo

[runic dock]

💀

Socrates has had enough

[unique lagoon]

by clans i mean all giants around the world

[final trench]

His stomach did inflate like luffy

[grand flower]

socrates ur so dumb 🙂

[shadow vault]

Loki also not really interested being a king right?

[sage temple]

King of the World is his dream rn

[sweet anvil]

Kidds also did

[runic dock]

Loki just wants to flip the world upside down

Higher aspirations tbh

[dense haven]

ragnir vs kid who wins

[shadow vault]

Yeah but i mean of him bejng the king of elbaph

[final trench]

I mean aye man

Jika Nika

[sweet anvil]

This must mean that jika is real

[unique lagoon]

i dont see any signs of loki going for the throne

[sage temple]

Yeah bro can I get what yall's point is by saying this

I don't get it bruh

[shadow vault]

Yeah inspired by rocks

[final trench]

Loki got the cartoon fruit

Maybe

[sweet anvil]

What does akuma mean

[runic dock]

Loki probably just wants to beat imus ass at the end of the day and that’s it

[sage temple]

Yeah just King of the World

[final trench]

Devil

[maiden charm]

Devil or demon

[sweet anvil]

Loki has the legendary demon devil fruit

Crazy

[maiden charm]

But apparently that part meant devil fruit when it was said

[unique lagoon]

i just think oda already set up Haj as king
whole half blood thing and elbaf accepting that as king
then uniting giants

[runic dock]

Literal translation for “devil fruit”

Akuma no mi

[shadow vault]

I also wonder if loki ever get to see those 3 world mural or he know something about WG from xebec journal?

[maiden charm]

Not actually a demon

[dense haven]

https://tenor.com/view/akuma-gouki-dvs-akuma-dvs-gouki-dvs-street-fighter-gif-831185978573572924

akuma mentioned

[sweet anvil]

Wait

[runic dock]

They’re just saying devil fruit

[maiden charm]

The goaaat

[runic dock]

Not devil devil fruit

[shadow vault]

Akuma mean devil/demon

[sweet anvil]

What if the akuma fruit is the interpretation of Nika as a destroyer / devil

[maiden charm]

https://tenor.com/view/raging-demon-street-fighter-akuma-messatsu-shin-goku-satsu-gif-17915317

[maiden charm]

I been saying this bro

Niggas wanna call me crazy

[sweet anvil]

People believed in Nika as a destroyer / devil and that created it

[sweet anvil]

Cook

[runic dock]

this term has been used in the past before to say devil fruit

That’s all

[final trench]

Yea, akuma no mi

[tranquil blade]

akuma no mi is just devil fruit

[sage temple]

🤦‍♂️ Too late brother

[maiden charm]

The Harley text and the second mural gives complete freedom for a destroyer Nika variant

[shadow vault]

Well the giant do believe that there many variation of sun god

[final trench]

Like how the hito hito no mi is the human fruit

[unique lagoon]

people keep saying destroy the world
but no one wants to get into the How part

[runic dock]

“Hito hito akuma no mi “ = human human devil fruit

[sweet anvil]

Oh so we still don’t know the name

[shadow vault]

Luffy sun god can literally destroy too tho?

[ruby moat]

he'll eat WB's fruit

[sweet anvil]

Harald was just saying legendary devil fruit

[final trench]

With the galleila

[unique lagoon]

hmm yes let me just punch the ground destroy the world

[final trench]

They’ll probably flatten the islands

[tranquil blade]

Yeah we dont have the name for the fruit at all

[sweet anvil]

Is it just me btw

[fluid cedar]

blackbeard can do that if he wanted to

[tranquil blade]

We just know it's a devil fruit and that it's supposedly legendary

[grand flower]

Sommers is probably gonna arrive next chapter @olive sigil

[shadow vault]

Also Luffy can make a fire out from his rubber yet imagine he could spawn a fire from him turning the landscape into a rubber

[grand flower]

My bet is safe

[unique lagoon]

doubt it
the gura DF has range

[sweet anvil]

Or has the interpretation of wbs fruit being able to destroy the world different now

Especially with Blackbeard already having it now

[hot cairn]

you’re cooked Sharon

[maiden charm]

I thought this was summer too, okay great

[grand flower]

you've*

[tranquil blade]

Weevil will do that actually

[unique lagoon]

whats next gura df can reach the earths core

[fluid cedar]

yes why not

[final trench]

Sommers get cooked by loki💔

[grand flower]

gotta be him for a reason

[grand flower]

that would be sooo funy

[final trench]

Yea i think eos weevil will find the gura gura

[maiden charm]

Does quilingham have a deep sea covenant

[sweet anvil]

If the dark fruit can negate imus powers could the quake fruits awakened variation allow for him to bypass regen or something

[tranquil blade]

I actually thought I was the only person who would get eliminated but somehow a third of everyone still did

[sweet anvil]

“The power to destroy the world”

[final trench]

Could probably cause vibrations in their body

[hot cairn]

people don’t know how to play smh, trying crazy picks in the first round

[tranquil blade]

Bro

[sweet anvil]

Btw it would also make sense because the strongest of each fruit category would be able to oppose imu the Nika fruit , the dark fruit and the quake fruit

[tranquil blade]

Look

[unique lagoon]

no df can just destroy the world

[sweet anvil]

exactly

[tranquil blade]

I was actually miffed when people were like "the hk kinda looks Shamrock does that count"

[sweet anvil]

The reference of the world is to imu

[unique lagoon]

that just dont make sense in my head

[fluid cedar]

Two can do since xebec needed 2

[unique lagoon]

xebec dint want to destroy the world

[grand flower]

Lmaoooo goofy asses

[sweet anvil]

He wanted to destroy imu who he refers to as the world itself

[fluid cedar]

his definition of the world is imu so yes he did

[deep chasm]

I mean I think whenever its something about destroying the world its more or less just saying its very powerful and could help you reach the top

/very destructive

[unique lagoon]

but thats a different thing
im talking about the actual planet

[sweet anvil]

The quake fruit is the only one stated to be able to destroy the world no ?

[deep chasm]

yea I dont think the idea is any fruit is actually destroying the planet

[final trench]

Rocks already said he didnt wanna destroy it

[sweet anvil]

It would make sense as well if Blackbeard got 2 fruits able to damage or hurt imu

[deep chasm]

its just like if you went around with WB's fruit for example you coudl destroy islands 1 by 1 over time

[final trench]

And that only herald has the power to do it

[unique lagoon]

if you talking about destroying like reseting civilization sure
cuz that happened already in 1st and 2nd world

[sweet anvil]

Darkness to negate imus powers and quake to damage imu

[unique lagoon]

consider they used ancient weapons also

[tranquil blade]

I read all of the rules except what the actual game was about so I was like "huh I dont think Sengoku will be in the next chapter so I'll pick him " Actually cooked myself so badly

I read every other rule besides the one that actually said what the game was about

[unique lagoon]

thats why i like the idea of of ragnir is needed making pluton

[fluid cedar]

If you consider destroying islands as destroying the world then whatever is raising the sea levels is the best at destroying the world

[grand flower]

Lmaooooo

[deep chasm]

yea that too

[sweet anvil]

Idk

Ig im reaching

[unique lagoon]

more like slowly destroying civilizations

[sweet anvil]

But considering how Blackbeard chose his fruits very specifically for his goal

[fluid cedar]

Fishmen prosper

[sweet anvil]

I think the quake fruit is more a tool to defeat imu

[final trench]

I dont think the quake is needed to damage imu, its just a plus

But the darkness fruit was owned by davy

[deep chasm]

I mean I think it has some value just cuz its like, if you take WBs fruit, if he went to an island and really tried his best he could probably cause crazy damage to it within a few attacks

[sweet anvil]

You can’t seriously damage imu with haki though

A legendary fruit is necessary

[final trench]

Indeed

[deep chasm]

so its a lot different from saying idk ace could destroy an island after 2 weeks of attacking with no resistance

[final trench]

The yami yami

[sweet anvil]

dark quake and Nika

[unique lagoon]

thats fine
im talking about the hype words being used
ohh destroy the world but clearly that wont happen

[sweet anvil]

The 3 fruits top of their respective categories

[tranquil blade]

Well the quake fruit doesnt seem to work, Whitebeard used a quake move on Imu and it did nothing

[deep chasm]

yea thats what Im saying, I think most can agree it wouldnt literally destroy thr world. Its an exaggeration fs

[tranquil blade]

I mean it's a powerful fruit

[sweet anvil]

That’s why I referred to an awakened variation

I don’t think whitebeard ever awakened it

[tranquil blade]

I actually do agree that Whitebeard probably didnt awaken it

[maiden charm]

Agreed

[fluid cedar]

Awakening would just be vibrating the area without attacking

[unique lagoon]

gura will prob never awaken

[sweet anvil]

Similarly to how Luffy needed to awaken his fruit to actually gain his op abilities to oppose imu the quake fruit gains a crazy ability to somehow damage imu

Trust

[hazy echo]

https://fixupx.com/POP15thMemorial/status/2002165819372097928

P.O.Pワンピース_メガハウス公式 (@POP15thMemorial)

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**💬 4 🔁 89 ❤️ 579 👁️ 25.5K **

FixupX · Dec 19, 2025, 11:55 PM

[tranquil blade]

Blackbeard probably could awaken it, his whole thing is destruction

[deep chasm]

I said this in a recent convo, but I subscribe to the idea WB and Kaido and ig even BM didnt fulfill the will of their fruits, so they didnt awaken them. WB's fruit is for a destroyer but hes not mcuh of that. But this whole theory just doesnt rlly have the backing from oda rlly

[maiden charm]

Idk maybe you just got to commit to the whole destroyer bit

[deep chasm]

youd think if this was the idea, oda wouldve acknowledged it

[tranquil blade]

I mean Oda doesnt back anything on awakenings tbh

He doesnt shit about them

[unique lagoon]

i just refuse to accept 1 DF can easy destroy the world

[tranquil blade]

He's waiting for something I presume

[unique lagoon]

dont know what to tell you

[sweet anvil]

I think vegapunks theory is partially correct

[tranquil blade]

but idk what

[sweet anvil]

Which is why it was said in the first place

[tough igloo]

i think Oda is just gonna. leave it at if your mind & body don’t catch up with your DF then you can’t awaken .. probably won’t touch on it again until we get the backstory on devil fruits

[fluid cedar]

Zoans only have wills

[maiden charm]

I mean it's earthquakes gang 🤷🏽

[sweet anvil]

Saying something completely false would be pointless

So vegapunks theory is at least partially right

[deep chasm]

yea it wouldnt

[tranquil blade]

People have said "He's Whitebeard, of course he awakened it" but I just don't think that's a valid reason to assume he awakened it

[deep chasm]

yea same goes for bm and kaido

[tranquil blade]

I also do think Whitebeard just wasnt the right person to awaken that fruit

[sweet anvil]

Everyone we’ve seen awaken their fruit perfectly suits their fruits as well

[unique lagoon]

back then i had an idea that during the first world
the yami df was used in a massive scale it covered the world in darkness
that theory prob dead now

[deep chasm]

yea guess so

[sweet anvil]

Katakuri loved donuts and sweets

Doffy was a controlling manipulative person

Puppeteer

[unique lagoon]

cuz i dont think theres a df that has unlimited range

[tranquil blade]

We dont know how someone awakens, and then logias we dont even know what their awakening looks like

[sweet anvil]

Luffy is self explanatory

[brittle basin]

Awakened or not, WB was a force of nature with that fruit.

[sweet anvil]

We don’t know how someone awakens but we have an idea of the requirements

[tranquil blade]

Lucci is a bloodthirsty asshole, Kaku just really like giraffes

[scenic dirge]

I’m honestly fine with the in universe reasoning for certain fruit users not awakening that Oda seems to be going for. I think it makes sense and has a nice magical feel to it. But of course, half the reason that Kaido and BM weren’t awakened is because they wouldn’t feasibly be beatable by the Luffy alliance if they had been. But I do also think BM not really being “aligned” with her fruit enough to not really be that fitting. I think she perfectly embodies a fruit like that tbh. Kaido and WB 100% make sense tho

[maiden charm]

https://tenor.com/view/shirohige-edward-newgate-the-whitebeard-vs-vice-admiral-gif-13157639691249849573

[sweet anvil]

Lucci is a stone cold killer ig you could say that’s relatively similar to a leopard

[tough igloo]

I wonder how long it took him to figure out he could do that once he got that DF lol

[unique lagoon]

only way i can see WB doing it is
he would travel for multiple days maybe months
go around the world using his DF on each island

[runic dock]

LLS > ZKK

[sweet anvil]

What’s LLS

[runic dock]

Ladies love shanks

[scenic dirge]

? 😭

[wise halo]

[grand flower]

I wonder how come kaido was never in elbaph with rocks

[tranquil blade]

Man get this out of here

[scenic dirge]

Why’d you give it an acronym like it’s a theory or take

[runic dock]

Because it is a theory

[scenic dirge]

How lmao. We know he’s popular with the ladies

[deep chasm]

I dont rlly think that was a big deal. In the end people will adjust the ppowerscaling to whatever we see. people still think big mom shouldve have lost to Law and kid. He couldve been awakened and the fight go pretty much the same way, or oda would just have to "downscale" kaido's normal form if you want to think of it that way.

I would say maybe BM is not aligning with her fruit if the idea is that she's meant to give life to people and make them happier. Like in a less manipulative way. Rn she takes years of humans lives to put into objects, maybe the will of the fruit is more to support people

[runic dock]

Some people like to deny it

[sweet anvil]

Wait think about it

[tranquil blade]

Rocks lowkenuinely was not trusting Kaido after that statement he made

[wise halo]

[solid stone]

I like to think the fruit alignment has more to do with the original wish that brought the fruit to life

or smth along the lines of what vegapunk was theorizing(?)

[runic dock]

Lowkeynuienly

[solid stone]

gotta reread that part

[sweet anvil]

I think some part of his theory is wrong though

[wise halo]

[solid stone]

true

[runic dock]

He may have been offscreen , but not the first time because he hadn’t joined yet

[sweet anvil]

Otherwise it would’ve been stated in a factual way

[deep chasm]

like the user has to have wished for a power like this? or wym

[sweet anvil]

Or something that he was more sure about

[steel stirrup]

Lowkenuinely is wild

Bro is a wordsmith

[solid stone]

Like the user aligning with the original wish that led to the fruit's "creation", if that makes sense.

[deep chasm]

I rlly struggle not to use that word, its catchy but Im trying not to seem chronically online

[solid stone]

wordsmith lol

[sweet anvil]

Real

[wet condor]

How do you see them each embodying their fruits respectively?

You don't have to answer that btw if you don't want to Evan lol

Because that's a long answer prolly

[runic dock]

[sweet anvil]

Lowkenuinely is on a generational run rn

[solid stone]

no evan you HAVE to respond now

[grand flower]

It definitely comes across that way to me. A power to share life, a selfless one. But Big Mom is completelys self centered

[unique lagoon]

i think over the years xebec just visited elbaf alone

[solid stone]

the entire world is watching you, awaiting your answer

this is a GLOBAL chatroom

[scenic dirge]

Yea you could be right about the BM thing actually. But idk, especially in Kaido’s case, yea Oda could just make “base” versions of the emperors less insane. But it’s still hard to imagine Luffy being able to defeat a fully awakened zoan Kaido who would have presumably been awakened for a while, and also way more accustomed to ACoC, and then have Luffy spontaneously unlock both of those abilities for the first time and still come out on top. But ur right, there’s still always a way for a writer to circumvent these things ig

[deep chasm]

yea

[wet condor]

I'm gonna be honest man. When someone ask me a question that takes a while to answer, I'll be like a quarter through the message and am like "this is too much"

so I'll either ignore it or I just say "I don't feel like answering" lol

[muted hedge]

https://fixupx.com/pewpiece/status/2002121879222419672

Pew (@pewpiece)

Early design sketches for Garling and Shamrock, drawn by Eiichiro Oda
︀︀
︀︀ went through several variations. Despite that, all of their designs maintained a sense of elegance and prestige. Garling was also meant to have different names before settling on the current one like (figarland Castra?)
︀︀
︀︀The author noted that both characters will play an important role in the upcoming events.

**💬 39 🔁 145 ❤️ 2.8K 👁️ 87.5K **

FixupX · Dec 19, 2025, 9:00 PM

[solid stone]

felt lol

[runic dock]

Great way to bastardize a ln innocent theme and make it look like corrupt Disney

[grand flower]

ikr

[sweet anvil]

Oda just made bm and kaido too strong to give awakenings

[grand flower]

big mom being evil dark disney witch is fun af

[sweet anvil]

The wills aligning thing was just a way to rationalise it

If we’re being honest

[deep chasm]

Maybe so but thats just kinda the thing with powerscaling, if we never saw it this way it'd make just as much sense the other way. We're used to the idea of the canon kaido and his powerscaling, so its hard to imagine him having a tangible powerup, and still losing. But all it would take is oda having base kaido have some worse feats, and or him use the awakening and it not make a huge difference.

Similar to how when BM is fighting law and kid she starts pulling out stronger moves, but law and keep basically keep up the same way to the blind eye

[spice cairn]

https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/2001852649977815209

しゅんドラン (@k42wKKihKBGTvXv)

2026年1月発売最新プライズ

ワンピース ワールドコレクタブルフィギュア-ジュエリー・ボニー ヒストリー-

ワンピース ゴムひも付きぬいぐるみ～モンキー・D・ルフィ＆ジュエリー・ボニー～

vxTwitter / fixvx · Dec 19, 2025, 3:10 AM

[solid stone]

i continually forget that G5 Bonney was a thing

[muted hedge]

i love the pink hue in Bonneys hair even when she's in gear 5

[spice cairn]

Fat plushes you can brutally beat old people with

[deep chasm]

I still say thats not the case, just make them weaker normally and have their awakenings allow the feats they got canonically. Its not like oda wouldve only thought about giving them awakenings when the fight was about to end. He wouldve considered giving them awakenings before their big fights

[grand flower]

Yeah exactly

"made them too strong" makes no sense

he could have just made them that strong with awakening

[unique lagoon]

i cant even imagine what awakened kaido and BM would look like

[frigid gulch]

Or hed just add more power ups

[muted hedge]

Big Moms awakening would be scary

[unique lagoon]

with how much variety of ability kaido can use thats almost like awakening already

[shadow vault]

Even weird is that bonney turn into nika and she has similar outfit to Luffy and has the same sash

[wet condor]

Oda could've wrote them to be weaker. I know that the Azure Dragon is supposed to be a benevolent deity in Far East Asian mythos and lore. It's a guardian deity. It makes sense to me why Kaido's will didn't align with the fruit

[muted hedge]

it's just her outfit but white

her original one that is

[shadow vault]

There also sash

[frigid gulch]

I wanna see a different mythical zoan awaken

[shadow vault]

Like luffy

[frigid gulch]

Nika being our first one..

[muted hedge]

i guess the sash is different, yeah

[unique lagoon]

how many elements can kaido do again?
wind, lightning and fire?

[shadow vault]

Look like the sash is permanent skin

[frigid gulch]

Ye

[wet condor]

Why Big Mom and Whitebeard haven't awakened their fruits, the reasoning for that to me is less clear. There is no clear reason why I would see them awakened or not awakened

[scenic dirge]

Well the dragon fruit is pretty clearly meant to be used for benevolence rather than tyranny as that is quite literally contrasted with Momo who I think will one day awaken the fruit. WB one seems pretty intuitive too. It’s a fruit that is only really used for destruction, and he’s not enough of a destroyer (at least in terms of disposition). BM fruit is kind of complex I think. Laww probably has a fair interpretation that it’s meat to “give life” but BM is not really like that. But my interpretation was that her fruit perfectly encapsulated the core of her character. All her ambitions and desires are twisted and distorted versions of nice and innocent things. To me that’s her whole character. And that’s literally represented by Totland being a twisted fantasy land too.

[sweet anvil]

I believe oda talked about how kaido was too strong and how he struggled to think about how luffy would defeat him at some point in wano

[unique lagoon]

must be hard to think about big punch

[deep chasm]

I think thats still fine. If anything maybe by that time oda already decided not to give him an awakening

[shadow vault]

Kaido fruit is azure dragon right? Its myth from china that it was supposed to be a guardian so no wonder kaido not awakened

[frigid gulch]

But if Luffy gets a transformation and also can affect his surroundings, that’s basically a 2 in 1

[deep chasm]

oh yea thinking back

big punch

[tranquil blade]

Pretty sure Kaido's fruit is supposed some type of guardian mythical dragon creature which is not what Kaido is of course

[ruby moat]

oda didnt know what to do with an awakened gura or soul fruit

[tranquil blade]

So it makes sense he didnt awaken

[wet condor]

Oh I misread your original message. You were saying that they weren't aligned

[scenic dirge]

Yea

[sweet anvil]

My only issue

[wet condor]

This of course can be it too if we're going for meta reasons lol

[tranquil blade]

Yamato is more likely to awaken, and maybe Momo

[sweet anvil]

How did kaku awaken

[shadow vault]

Yeah azure dragon was Chinese Myth it was about guardian and prospecting

[frigid gulch]

I think Momo will yea

[ruby moat]

he fucks with giraffes HARD

[muted hedge]

even more so now when we know how long they've had their fruits

[deep chasm]

my main point is regardless, if Im an author, and I wanna give kaido an awakening, but him still lose, Im just gonna give him an awakening, and convince my readers he still could lose. Worst case scenario some readers are like wow thats bs, which plenty of fans already do with many of oda's fights

[tranquil blade]

He really likes giraffes

[pulsar path]

Omg that's totally it!

[frigid gulch]

Doesn’t VP mention not testing if it could awaken

[vestal heath]

So if you like something very much you become it

[frigid gulch]

That seems like a hint to me

[pulsar path]

Lmao 😂😂 who would that even be

[tranquil blade]

Well it means they could or could not awaken idk

[sweet anvil]

Am I forgetting something or did kaku never mention his insane love for giraffes 😭

I don’t remember this at all

[deep chasm]

I think WB is easy answer. Fruit's will is probably all about destruction, and he aint doin allat. Big mom's is more complicated, but I could believe the purpose of her fruit is to selflessly help others, instead she's taking years off of people's lives for her army

[scenic dirge]

Awakened gura fruit is probably just bigger boom booms lol. Don’t really think that’s the type of fruit that Oda would feel the need to come up with some crazy new idea for

That fruit destroys shit

[muted hedge]

Lucci and Kaku both match their zoans very well

[sweet anvil]

It is

[shadow vault]

Kaku really proud and like his giraffe devil fruit lol

[scenic dirge]

Awakening makes it destroy shit harder

[frigid gulch]

Peak

[sweet anvil]

The awakened Gura is a tool to defeat imu

[tranquil blade]

Instead of externally damaging you awakened gura gives you like a severe version of a tummy ache instead

[sweet anvil]

Each of the 3 classes would have a fruit capable of doing so

[wet condor]

Y'all both gave good answers for BM

[tranquil blade]

Internal damage or smth

[sweet anvil]

Dark Nika and quake

[frigid gulch]

WB goes boom more than he already does

[scenic dirge]

Peak

[pulsar path]

I'm sorry I'm so late aww man I missed video game talk but these were cheep! Ik you know Buffy but fyi to any one else Chrono trigger was over 100 and so was ff6!

[wet condor]

Whitebeard too, but the Big Mom one are real novel

[sweet anvil]

The ability to destroy the world would have a new meaning as well

[deep chasm]

yea I mean if it follows the paramecia trend...it kinda would just be quakes but like within the object or person, which is effectively the same ability

[unique lagoon]

yeah you need to consider the mind and body thing for awakening maybe some characters just not merging with the DF properly

[scenic dirge]

Awakened yami could be very unique and special tho

[sweet anvil]

The world being imu

[glacial bear]

Are they calling Imu big?

[tranquil blade]

Awakened Yami could be really cool if Oda told us what awakened logias do

[glacial bear]

SMH fatphobic

[muted hedge]

mythical zoan guaranteed

[tranquil blade]

Now hopefully the Yami Yami is not actually a secret zoan

[muted hedge]

i have no hope in that yami will remain a logia

[sweet anvil]

Blackbeard would also sought out the fruit because of its ability to harm imu and help him become king of the world

[frigid gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/hand-on-shoulder-akakichi-no-eleven-everything-will-be-ok-my-brother-in-christ-we're-gonna-beat-you-gif-16692013677699419935

[scenic dirge]

You know it’s coming

😭

[tranquil blade]

Aghhhhhhhh

[wet condor]

Awakened Blackbeard... both fruits

I bet on him beating Shanks in a 1v1 if that happens

[unique lagoon]

yami got to be another legendary DF

[deep chasm]

human human fruit model whatever other random mythological entity

[sweet anvil]

That’s how he becomes the second strongest person ever

[wet condor]

Blackbeard seems like someone who could awaken the gura gura

[brittle basin]

I think when I bought FF6 cartridge only in the early 2000s, it was ~$60 USD.

[sweet anvil]

2 of the 3 strongest fruits awakened

[tranquil blade]

No god damn it, why 😭 cant it just be a really cool logia

[scenic dirge]

It’s so easy for Oda to do as well given the yami is already a bit unique as a logia

[vital heart]

I think I got banned from this server

Did I?

[scenic dirge]

Yea

[tranquil blade]

It is easy too

[grand flower]

Yup

[dapper tree]

I wish'

[sweet anvil]

I don’t think you did

Not sure tho

[muted hedge]

Enel has the cool logia

[tranquil blade]

You might need to go to hell

[muted hedge]

hopefully he just returns one day

[unique lagoon]

the only mythical legendary logia

[wet condor]

Best Logia is GBs. Second best is Yami Yami no mi

[muted hedge]

best logia has to be lightning for me

[sweet anvil]

In practical use

[tranquil blade]

"I think I got banned" proceeds to type in chat

[unique lagoon]

i thought GB said its the purest form of logia

[frigid gulch]

Wood is always a cool power to me

[muted hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-skypiea-wings-god-sky-island-gif-16674496710045000296

[sweet anvil]

For Blackbeards goal and combat against fruits its dark fruit

[muted hedge]

Enel just used it like none other

[tranquil blade]

It would so easy too which is probably the worst part

[pulsar path]

It was crazy if you put it though inflation too! But you know what I bet that cartridge still works! They say switch cards might start failing after like ten to 15 years!

[hazy echo]

Best logia is still Enel's one even now

[unique lagoon]

enel also has a clever weapon choice

[sweet anvil]

The best one yes

[tranquil blade]

It'd unironically make more sense than Luffy's fruit

[sweet anvil]

The strongest one no

[hazy echo]

The only other one in terms of versatility is like Greenbull

[wet condor]

When he turned Udon prison from a wasteland into a thriving forest

That's when it became my favorite fruit

[hazy echo]

You can do so much with Enel and GB's DF

And then you have Akainu here that only has it for killing people

[solid stone]

you can plant trees with GB's DF!

[muted hedge]

Enel's fruit probably provides with limitless energy, which Vegapunk saught

[pulsar path]

I actually think kizaru would be the most op if he used his to the peak

[unique lagoon]

haki man enel is scary

[hazy echo]

Hey Zyp

[sweet anvil]

Fr

[solid stone]

hi shreed

[maiden charm]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-egghead-kizaru-borsalino-luffy-gear-5-gif-6095724021030305358

[muted hedge]

Enel powered up the whole city on the moon

[vestal heath]

Snod told me to use context clues for once in my life so I did that and came to a conclusion that kaku has an insane catastrophic love for giraffes

[sweet anvil]

Oda had to nerf it

[solid stone]

how ya doin

[hazy echo]

Doing good just making vids

[solid stone]

nice nice

[scenic dirge]

It’s anime light = lasers

[unique lagoon]

would kizaru and enel just cancel each other out
boils down to haki again

[frigid gulch]

What a nice guy

[hazy echo]

https://tenor.com/n6maysRod0o.gif

[sweet anvil]

Why would they

[tranquil blade]

I mean Kizaru's lasers may be more powerful

[pulsar path]

Tbh kizaru, enel and ace could all be a power source

[tranquil blade]

I mean it's photons so idk how that interacts with plasma

[pulsar path]

Do we have an oil oil logia?

[unique lagoon]

both logia wont really dmg each other

[tranquil blade]

No

[sweet anvil]

He was lying to himself 💔

[muted hedge]

i think that Enels fruit is more powerful

[blazing depot]

Oh yeah I remembered we are getting Saturn’s death soon in the anime

[hazy echo]

@sweet anvil This as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSzRGaVq-aQ

[sweet anvil]

?

[unique lagoon]

unless you do the akainu logic

[blazing depot]

Saturn you ugly af

[frigid gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-admiral-ryokugyu-aramaki-greenbull-gif-16521603320306235569

He walks and just leaves a green path

Pretty cool

[scenic dirge]

I love the way Oda draws Kizaru using his powers tho. Not really the pew pew beams but when he’s like, doing high speed kicks and we get those light effects

[sweet anvil]

What is the context of ts 😭

[tranquil blade]

We should tho and the user should be the king of ballywood

[unique lagoon]

one day GB will pull out that blade
black blade even

[pulsar path]

Maaan why does he got the amarastsu ability from okami

[hazy echo]

I feel like between lightning & light it depends on which one's hotter?

[blazing depot]

The guy is Lil Mar and trust me you’d agree with those comments. He’s depraved

[pulsar path]

Lmao I tbh it could be sued crazy with fire or would fire be it's weakness?

[muted hedge]

lightning just feels more destructive

while light is more precise i guess

[tranquil blade]

I mean irl lightning is more destructive

[scenic dirge]

Does it? Kizaru can blow shit up crazy style

[tranquil blade]

but we also dont make photon lasers irl

So idk

[scenic dirge]

Like he just blew up a massive mangrove tree with zero effort at all

[muted hedge]

Enel summoning a lightning bolt on anyone within his radius is still insane

[tranquil blade]

Enel has kinda crazier range and with assistance can nuke islands

[sweet anvil]

If light was used in the way kizaru used it , it would be way more destructive no ?

[tranquil blade]

but he cant do it on his own

[pulsar path]

Logias should be able to fuse elements

[muted hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-eneru-enel-lightning-thunder-gif-20168136

[hazy echo]

Why doesn't Enel just run away and spam lightning bolts from a distance is he stupid

[ruby moat]

yes

he is

[tranquil blade]

Idk how that would work in the real world

[sweet anvil]

I remember someone saying 1 beam would be like a nuke

Don’t remember the reasoning or anything

[tranquil blade]

Well it is moving at lightspeed

[muted hedge]

he pretty much did, until Luffy lol

[unique lagoon]

what a ridiculous amount of energy enel just casually put out

[tranquil blade]

and any physical object moving at lightspeed would be like a nuke

[ruby moat]

it would be. Something with mass moving at light speed would be incredibly destructive. And kizaru does have mass. if he didn't, it'd just be shining a light on the opponents

[hazy echo]

Tbf Wyper

[muted hedge]

oh right, kickstarting his own heart with lightning is also insane

[scenic dirge]

I mean, Enel’s biggest attacks were also largely amped by the Arc Maxim so it’s not like he can just spam Raigo’s out of his ass normally

If he could then yea, he’d be the most destructive easily

[sweet anvil]

I feel like kizarus fruit is wasted potential

[unique lagoon]

does enel really need the maxim to make the nuke?

[ruby moat]

^ enel needed the ark maxim to maximize his power

[tranquil blade]

Yes

[sweet anvil]

It’s literally light

Should be way more op

[muted hedge]

if we gave him room to train or whatever, then i could easily see him manage to do these stuff without Arc Maxim

[red lagoon]

How so

[scenic dirge]

Who knows

[ruby moat]

it would be world breaking if it was the power of actual light speed

[scenic dirge]

He had room to train. He’s just a lazy asshole

[tranquil blade]

Hey Enel has his big fat lightning form dont sleep on him

[unique lagoon]

i dont see why kizaru cant make a giant laser tbh

[muted hedge]

well he didn't need to train, since he was already established as god as far as he knew it

[sweet anvil]

if kizaru knew the general direction of an island he could just fly there idk why he travels by ship

[glacial bear]

Enel vs Sengoku in a sumo wrestling match

[muted hedge]

Luffy was his one and only natural counter funny enough

[sweet anvil]

He literally flies at light speed

[red lagoon]

True idk why he doesn’t do this

[ruby moat]

he'd be able to circle around the entire one piece world in seconds if not minutes

[grand flower]

I'm pretty sure enel trained

[unique lagoon]

kizaru can prob just make a giant laser that can put holes on an island

[grand flower]

he told his priests they need to train

[ruby moat]

even with the one piece world being larger than earth

[grand flower]

and enel is hella acrobatic

[muted hedge]

they needed to train to match him

[tranquil blade]

This just means the op world is 10 thousand times the size of our planet

[hazy echo]

God is more of a position thing in terms of Skypeia

[sweet anvil]

He could go from marineford to wano in like 10 seconds

[hazy echo]

It's just like a king title

[muted hedge]

i think he was more of a prodigy than anything, but yeah maybe a bit of training too

[grand flower]

for sure

[hazy echo]

Ganfall used to be the god of Skypeia remember

[ruby moat]

yea itd be genuinely world breaking

[scenic dirge]

He may have “trained” but I guess he was never really challenged much for quite a while living as the Kami

[sweet anvil]

I feel like kizaru could use more running tactics btw

[muted hedge]

that's true but Enel saw himself as the literal definition of god

[red lagoon]

Maybe he can since he was talking bout pulling up on kaido and bm on wano whilst they was fighting already

[muted hedge]

i think he saw it as more than just a position

[unique lagoon]

kizaru can move fast
but his reaction time aint as fast as light

[sweet anvil]

He could just run in and out of someone’s effective range and attack them

[ruby moat]

thats basically what he did against luffy tbf

[hazy echo]

Yea barring like Luffy there's hardly anyone that can outright counteract his DF

[pulsar path]

Kizaru basicly is untouchable even if you have haki he fast

[hazy echo]

The only other one is like BB's darkness fruit

[red lagoon]

I think the only thing holding him back is if not he just would never lose

[muted hedge]

Kizarus clones were impressive

[pulsar path]

BB and Luffy are just cheaters at this point

[sweet anvil]

Yeah but like he could just not lose with it

[unique lagoon]

if you think about it all logias could make a clone

[muted hedge]

probably

[sweet anvil]

What is Luffy doing when kizaeu is 20km in the sky

[hazy echo]

Not Blackbeard

[muted hedge]

Greenbull technically makes clones when he gets defeated

so that he comes back to life in a new body

[unique lagoon]

i mean maybe???
he can spread his darkness ye?

[pulsar path]

Yeah cus he has a clone in em already

[red lagoon]

Bb can’t turn into his element

[hazy echo]

The whole thing with BB is that he can't turn into the element

[prisma idol]

Thats what he wants you to think

[hazy echo]

Which is the main contrast between it with other logias

[red lagoon]

👀

[unique lagoon]

no but im just thinking he could make a darkness shape being

[pulsar path]

Like why is it a logia than

[tranquil blade]

I love Greenbull's fruit conceptually I just wish he didnt use the stupid broccoli form all the time

[red lagoon]

I wonder why he can’t turn into his element

[hazy echo]

Oh honestly maybe not?

His DF is more like on the pure side

[pulsar path]

When you get a special logia but it's a negative

[muted hedge]

it's bound to be a mythical zoan

[prisma idol]

Wait till BB steps into a cave or a enclosed dark place, then he can

[pulsar path]

Bound to be

[unique lagoon]

if teach just coat his whole body with darkness
he can easy absorb all attacks

[red lagoon]

He finna blow the sun tf up

[sweet anvil]

I thought it’s because darkness is the absence of light

[pulsar path]

Or what if Imu and his fruit are split

[prisma idol]

Bb cant turn into his element because Darkness cant exist where there is light

[pulsar path]

So Imu has the logia part or something

[unique lagoon]

so just put a layer of blackhole around his body
sucks everything EZ

[red lagoon]

Probably

So if he turn the light off he finna be op as shit

[golden valley]

Why would he chase after, tho he could

[hazy echo]

Without light there's no shadow

https://tenor.com/r0iKDWmlRor.gif

[prisma idol]

Thats why they put the sheet over BB and WB in marineford, so BB can become his element and use it to take WB's fruit power

[sweet anvil]

My point is he could do that and then just spam hella beams from that far

[unique lagoon]

im telling you BB going to do the classic
make a dome full of darkness
and you need to fight basically blind

[red lagoon]

Why don’t kizaru just send his clones eveywhere

[deep chasm]

they aint gonna hit

[golden valley]

But thats not realistic against luffy

[coarse fjord]

Kizaru did it

[prisma idol]

Lucci told him to be there or be square

[sweet anvil]

Kizaru could deadass just be using gigantic light beams to destroy the island from far away

[red lagoon]

Nigga could have a clone that never leaves marineford

[sweet anvil]

He’s trying to kill vegapunk not luffy

[hazy echo]

Holy fudge

This is cool

[muted hedge]

that would be disadvantageous for him

[deep chasm]

luffy picks up vegapunk so the beams dont hit

[unique lagoon]

yes thats why i think all of em prob do it

[red lagoon]

How come

[golden valley]

They had to protect the powerplant

[coarse fjord]

It might be because it's just a quick afterimage more than a real actual clone

[sweet anvil]

Oh yeah

[muted hedge]

since Blackbeard wouldn't see shit either, would he?

[sweet anvil]

Either way

[muted hedge]

especially if it's against let's say Shanks who can kill observation

[red lagoon]

Kill and shanks

Ur right

Bb will kill shanks

[maiden charm]

Can't be an afterimage because the clones had form and could act physically

[unique lagoon]

also thats too complicated
why not just make a dome and suck everything inside

[sweet anvil]

He could be going back and forth outside of luffys effective range of attack and wear him out

[coarse fjord]

The only fruit that can actually make real clones is string fruit by doflamingo

[red lagoon]

😁

[sweet anvil]

Luffy has like a 5 minute fight meter

[deep chasm]

but also some scenarios are just inconveneint for oda. Theres lots of matchups where we could just say character A stays in the sky and shoots projectiles and they rpolly win, or even king just doesnt use his speed mode on zoro, its just some things are a little inconvenient for oda.

[hazy echo]

All of these logias fails against the true clone user

[muted hedge]

i don't think he will

[coarse fjord]

But they're just gone after that, they don't stay intact forever

[hazy echo]

https://tenor.com/iAs1NdK3CK3.gif

[red lagoon]

When bb kills shanks im finna throw some shit on the grill

[muted hedge]

Blackbeard and Shanks are both too important to kill eachother

[ruby moat]

thats exactly what he did

[sweet anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/how-do-we-tell-him-gif-8272342975911687520

[maiden charm]

https://tenor.com/view/borsalino-kizaru-vs-monkey-d-luffy-gear-fifth-gear-five-gif-16432467806309218627

[trim lily]

i just realized we havent done a true clone paramecia yet

[red lagoon]

No no

Bb too important to die

[coarse fjord]

Doflamingo did it?

[red lagoon]

Shanks can go

[deep chasm]

well this is its own issue. Luffy could do fine fighting in g/4 or even lower gears for a while, but hes spamming g5 so it seems like he'd lose to lots of people if he keeps doing that

[unique lagoon]

croc can prob make sand clones
its just like sand castles but shape of croc

[muted hedge]

Shanks is also too important to die

[golden valley]

No??

[muted hedge]

from all the editors saying how important he is to the final arc

[hazy echo]

Technically Brulee

[golden valley]

Its a clone made of strings

[sweet anvil]

He can’t compete in g4

[trim lily]

ahh true

thats probably the closest we'll get

[deep chasm]

he probably could, I think the issue is oda wants to force g5 matchups

[coarse fjord]

Doflamingo made his clone out of string

[deep chasm]

if g4 could compete with kaido it could compete with an admiral. Oda just been milking g5, so its in every single fight

[sweet anvil]

Against kaido and kizaru g4 is not competing at all

[red lagoon]

Against who?

[maiden charm]

Can't the clay dude from sword technically do it

[golden valley]

Kizaru can beat G4 without much issue using the same acceleration attack

[red lagoon]

G4 can hang with them but it’s not winning

[ruby moat]

he literally was competing against kaido in g4, even in base

[golden valley]

But normally, Kizaru cant easily beat it

[trim lily]

maybe?

[deep chasm]

we literally say g4 competing with kaido so thats just not true. It doesnt mean g4 can win, but the point is he can compete with them

[trim lily]

but theyd still be just clay

[unique lagoon]

doffy clone was cuz of the awakening ye?

[trim lily]

no he can just do that

[golden valley]

Kizaru used perhaps his strongest if not one of his strongest moves on G4

[red lagoon]

G4 Luffy not putting down any of the top tiers but it can deffo hang with them

[muted hedge]

Grus creates more puppets than clones i'd say

[sweet anvil]

Kaido doesn’t actually go all out had kaido wanted to kill him in the moment he could’ve

[ruby moat]

okay.

[golden valley]

Thats how he overpowered it

[coarse fjord]

Do we even know if kizaru was going all out at that point

[dapper tree]

like the 4 people above him?

[maiden charm]

Fair

[leaden rivet]

G4 can’t actually compete with Kaido

[coarse fjord]

Didn't kizaru got depressed or something since he killed or has to kill vegapunk?

[unique lagoon]

in this context
aint clones just a look alike of the user but weaker

[sweet anvil]

Luffy before guernica got involved said it was his last attack but if we’re being honest that last attack would do nothing serious to kaido

[pulsar path]

Strong strong fruit should be a logia

[leaden rivet]

At least from my pov

[maiden charm]

Ong

[deep chasm]

its still kaido using a lot of his strength + acoc and clearly showing his enjoyment of the fight. And thats kaido whos likely significantly more powerful than kizaru. point is g4 could compete with kizaru theoretically, its just oda is milking g5 so we have to see g4 not do much

[leaden rivet]

If Kaido wanted to he would destroy gear 4

[muted hedge]

yeah that's true, lol

[sweet anvil]

Kaido would’ve got up killed Luffy then killed the rest of SH law and Kidd like he could’ve

[red lagoon]

Depends what u count as top of him cause Luffy stronger than the admirals but I still got him losing to them 🫢

[maiden charm]

Didn't Luffy go gear 4 against Kizaru

[deep chasm]

Yea Kaido wouldve won comfortably anyway, but it was still luffy keeping up with kaido using most of his strength

[leaden rivet]

Like Kaido is even stronger than gear 5 at some points in the fight and there’s a massive difference between gear 4 and gear 5

[deep chasm]

yes

[leaden rivet]

The fight wouldn’t even be close if Kaido put in as much work

[unique lagoon]

he went snake man

[maiden charm]

I don't think gear 4 was hanging with Kizaru

[unique lagoon]

not sure if he did boundman

[sweet anvil]

I think now we’re getting more theoretical than basing off what actually happened i get what you’re saying but oda wrote it how it happened

[deep chasm]

I agree, I just still believe if oda isnt milking g5 he'd show g4 doing more. Its the same way g4 and shit should destroy lucci but somehow luffy feels the need to go g5 vs him

[sweet anvil]

We saw Luffy in g4 not hanging with kizaru

[tranquil blade]

Well it seemed to lack in terms of speed

[deep chasm]

yes, but Im saying this is because oda is milking g5, not because g4 cant stand up to kizaru at all

[unique lagoon]

yeah kizaru countered snakeman ez

[leaden rivet]

Oda’s trying to show that gear 4 can’t hang with top tiers imo

[maiden charm]

What does Kizaru always say

[red lagoon]

Oda need to make it clearer when adv haki is being used

[dense haven]

luffy wasnt fresh btw

[deep chasm]

yes, but Im saying this is because oda is milking g5, not because g4 cant stand up to kizaru at all

[leaden rivet]

Ohhhhhhh brother

[maiden charm]

https://tenor.com/view/kizaru-borsalino-kizaru-sabaody-archipelago-kizaru-speed-speed-is-weight-gif-24182385

[coarse fjord]

But why would Luffy use gear 4 at this point of the time?

[red lagoon]

G4 can hang but it’s not beating them

[sweet anvil]

So oda decided to make it so g4 can’t hang with kizaru

[leaden rivet]

To waste haki needlessly

[red lagoon]

Like putting down g4 Luffy would not be easy

[unique lagoon]

you think kizaru can haki coat his sword?

[red lagoon]

It’s not like them fighting against a Yc

[maiden charm]

Hmm good question

[sweet anvil]

Yeah

[coarse fjord]

Yeah why

[leaden rivet]

But unironically it’s because gear 5 incapacitates him so he has to use it carefully

[sweet anvil]

My point is characters from kizaru and up aren’t threatened by g4

[deep chasm]

I mean yea, you saw g4 luffy keeping up with kaido. Even if you think kaido had more strength in the bag, thats luffy keeping up. Which doesnt match how luffy for some reason needs to go g5 even vs lucci. The other forms are boring so oda isnt showing them off, but I dont think the idea is luffy is literally useless vs a top tier without g5

[red lagoon]

G5 mins

[sweet anvil]

Like they wouldn’t think they would lose

[red lagoon]

Ye I agree

[unique lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/mc-jugger-nuggets-gif-19032506

[coarse fjord]

Because they would destroy g4 as simple as that

[red lagoon]

Luffy was going against kaido in g4 but kaido was never ever ever gonna lose to g4

[deep chasm]

but this is what Im saying lol, thats competing. Kizaru should not be able to casually beat g4 if oda wasnt trying to milk g5.

[golden valley]

Its just so funny because I remember Pre-Egghead, people had Luffy cooking Admirals in Base or G4

[ruby moat]

Luffy also just likes being in g5

[deep chasm]

that would depend on your definition of threatened, I think theyre not gonna lose, but I think g4 can hurt them a lot

[leaden rivet]

Gear 4 Luffy beating admirals wasn’t unreasonable tbf

[ruby moat]

It’s when he’s the most free and he probably enjoys fighting most while in g5

[sweet anvil]

My point is that they don’t lose any times out of 10

[leaden rivet]

Gear 4 Luffy had better feats than big mom lol

[golden valley]

It just goes to show how off the mark people were

[deep chasm]

yea it really wasnt. its just related to my point of oda milking g5 atp

[coarse fjord]

But gear 5 can't defeat an admiral as seen from vs kizaru

What makes you think a g4 can?

[deep chasm]

I think the whole out of 10 fight thing is kind of useless as a metric so sure

[unique lagoon]

or maybe the Nika effect making him enjoy the form more

[leaden rivet]

I mean at the time

[ruby moat]

He’s being brainwashed

[leaden rivet]

Gear 4 Luffy was looking insane at one point

[unique lagoon]

the DF is taking over luffys mind

[golden valley]

G4 stomping Admirals stemmed from people inherently downplaying Admirals

[red lagoon]

I think Luffy was just hella locked in against kaido

[sweet anvil]

Ok well I’m just saying even though he’s not weak to them he’s by no means winning in any way

[leaden rivet]

Nah

[coarse fjord]

Why do people underestimate admirals so much man I don't understand

[red lagoon]

I dont think we gonna see a luffy that locked in again until against bb or imu

[golden valley]

I was debating against it

[leaden rivet]

It’s just oda not portraying the admirals well enough to believe they could stand up to that level of strength

[golden valley]

I was present

[leaden rivet]

Im not denying it happened

Im saying its on oda

[red lagoon]

I highly agree

[golden valley]

But people had different perspectives of the admirals

[sweet anvil]

Kaido not going all out and playing with Luffy is why people thought g4 slammed admirals

[golden valley]

Pre-Egghead

[coarse fjord]

A non serious admiral is already above any yonko commanders first of any yonko crew members and we're still calling them weak?

[red lagoon]

Oda doesn’t portray the admirals well enough

[deep chasm]

if oda was forced to write luffy in g4 without g5 being an option vs kizaru, do you think Kizaru would easily win?

[golden valley]

Not really true

[sweet anvil]

Kaido could’ve taken Luffy out any time before g5 had he wanted

[coarse fjord]

That's not true

[leaden rivet]

Like Kizaru stalemated Rayleigh and took more damage than Rayleigh did in their fight. And that was his best feat

[red lagoon]

But I think it’s a bit of both

[golden valley]

Pre-Egghead, people had Admirals giving tough fights to Yonkos. It didn’t stem from headcanon

[coarse fjord]

Admirals has been portrayed since the beginning of the story as someone to balance the yonkos

[unique lagoon]

he did took luffy out before g5
but dumbass threw him off the island

[leaden rivet]

Talking about the actual fights

[sweet anvil]

Oda changed the strength of Luffy to best fit the story so obviously no , but we’re arguing over what we’ve actually seen and what decisions were made narratively g4 Luffy doesn’t seriously compete

[leaden rivet]

Compare what you’ve seen of Kaido and Luffy and then look at Fuji and Greenbull and tell me how they hold up

[red lagoon]

Even the Ws the admirals get u can barely count as jus there Ws

[coarse fjord]

We haven't seen any of the admirals full 100% strength. None of them ever showed their punches, probably kizaru vs Luffy but at that time he was mentally down

[golden valley]

G4 stomping Admirals stemmed from Admiral downplay, there was a precedent to not take them as that weak.

[red lagoon]

I can’t even blame ppl for downplaying admirals cause odas portrayal of them sometimes is shocking

Or am I up playing them?!?!

🤔

[golden valley]

Hence why Admirals ~ Yonko takes were a thing prior to Egghead

[leaden rivet]

I never went that far

[trim lily]

man poor greenbull just had to be sacrificed for shanks

[deep chasm]

Okay but you just explained my point. if your answer is no then thats exactly what Im talking about. if oda isnt trying to milk g5 for his story, and he was forced to show off the strength of everything luffy has minus g5, like he did with kaido, luffy would probably not be beaten so quick and easy by an admiral even in g4.

I think Oda is just milking the hell out of g5, so thats why youve barely seen any other gear being used against anyone post wano for more than a few pages. And so to go along with that, he cant have luffy fighting for several chapters against kizaru with g4 only

[leaden rivet]

I thought we were talking about g4 beating admirals not stomping them

[red lagoon]

The admirals just feel like hype tools

[leaden rivet]

Ofc stomping them is ridiculous

[grand flower]

idk

[leaden rivet]

But beating them wasn’t at all

[grand flower]

kizaru put up a better fight against g5 than any elder did

[deep chasm]

yea pretty much

[golden valley]

We talking pre-egghead

[leaden rivet]

Holy knight>Admirals was crazy tho

[coarse fjord]

Gear 4 got stalled by cracker yet Aokiji just completely blitz cracker and freezes him, anything more to be said?

[deep chasm]

dont get me started

[grand flower]

oh they do look better even then

[leaden rivet]

Talking bout an entirely different level of Luffy

Base Luffy right now is stronger than g4 Luffy who fought cracker

[red lagoon]

The g4 that fought cracker is not the same g4 of today

[deep chasm]

Okay this is g4 before advanced armament, future sight, and ACoC, and general stat buffs, I feel this is unfair

[red lagoon]

That g4 Luffy is getting washed by base current Luffy

[coarse fjord]

That's fair

[leaden rivet]

Like you come out of showing us the behemoths that are Kaido and Luffy and then the next admiral moment we get is shanks bitching Greenbull and you’re surprised people don’t hold them as high up?

This is just on oda

[red lagoon]

I’m telling u oda be using them as hype tools😭

a no named admiral killed by rocks before he even started his crew

Green bull getting bitched hy shanks off island

[coarse fjord]

You guys might make it sound like a meme, but Kizaru offered up to go to Wano after big mom's and kaido's alliance. Unless you guys think Oda is trolling and just make that panel up just for the memes, I think that's enough to potray that an admiral exist to fight the yonkos

[red lagoon]

Aokiji needing to jump a washed up old Garp

[unique lagoon]

oh woops wrong chat

[leaden rivet]

People care more about things they do not how strong were told they are

[sweet anvil]

You’re now questioning the narrative though luffys fights are obviously be different if you change the events of the story , oda made Luffy in g4 weaker than kizaru because he had g5 I agree and based on that I’m saying kizaru is decently stronger , oda milking g5 is his choice

[coarse fjord]

Sorry I don't understand

Oh I get it

[leaden rivet]

Sorry comma missing

[red lagoon]

I blame oda for why the fans downplay admirals

[coarse fjord]

Well if you want something that they're capable of doing then simply just see Kizaru vs G5

[red lagoon]

Maybe oda just don’t like the admirals

[leaden rivet]

We’re talking prior to this

[golden valley]

The overall point is that people were off the mark of the Admirals strength, I used to engage in G4 vs Admirals where G4 was beating every single one, even Old Garp got the same disrespect and the belief didn’t necessarily stem from “the Admirals are built different, trust” there was a literal basis.

[ruby moat]

kizaru vs g5 aint all that he just ran out the clock

[coarse fjord]

Prior to that we have Aokiji freezing the entire bb commanders, a yonko

[leaden rivet]

Who I mean constantly lose

[red lagoon]

G5 can put down an admiral but it’s got like a 5 min timer so if he doesn’t do it he will lose and then g4 cannot put down an admiral

[golden valley]

Thr Admirals except maybe Akainu don’t necessarily get this treatment anymore or as much as they used to specifically, but Akainu’s strength is going to be something that a vast majority got wrong about as well

[red lagoon]

Luffy in like a weird middle ground

[coarse fjord]

Downplaying at its finest

[unique lagoon]

theres also the whole progression in strength with the MCs

[sweet anvil]

Agreed

Idk if this is unpopular but I don’t think Luffy is top 10 rn

[red lagoon]

He’s a weird case

His peak is strong

But it doesn’t last

So can he really be up there

[woeful moth]

his base is actually strong enough to hang in there... his peak is just on another level

[unique lagoon]

luffy will just blitz you anyway

thats his fighting style

[woeful moth]

yeah Luffy belongs in there

[sweet anvil]

Clearly doesn’t work on anyone at kizaru level or stronger

[golden valley]

Luffy has always been “beat you before my timer runs out”

It shoukd change against imu tho

[unique lagoon]

thats why oda gave him food = recharge

which i still find stupid in shonen

but i have to accept

[red lagoon]

😂

[coarse fjord]

Pretend it's not kizaru..

[final trench]

It will be over soon

[red lagoon]

If u against akainu u not getting a chance to eat

U just finna die

[sweet anvil]

I feel like vegapunk could make luffy some kind of tablet that’s the equivalent of eating a meal

So he could fight longer

[final trench]

After elbaf there will be nomore food nerf

[sweet anvil]

Hopefully

[coarse fjord]

Bro died

[red lagoon]

I think there still will be a timer

[sweet anvil]

He can still be brought back through Lilith

[sweet anvil]

By time he fights imu I don’t think there’ll be a timer anymore

The timer issue will slowly disappear

[unique lagoon]

luffy dint do the recharge with only nika vs kizaru right?

[sweet anvil]

No

[red lagoon]

Nah

[coarse fjord]

It might be stupid for me to say this but Luffy should improve his haki way more than his g5

[unique lagoon]

seams like a kaido exclusive atm

[red lagoon]

He was just locked in

[sweet anvil]

His haki ?

[coarse fjord]

No nvm it's not stupid, haki is essential

[deep chasm]

oda milking g5 is his choice and Im saying the feats of his other geara dont fully reflect their strength lately for that reason. at the en dof the day oda himself aint rlly a powerscaler, so he's not perfect, but I dont think he intends for g4 to be powerless vs an admiral

[red lagoon]

Luffy vs kaido was peak Luffy

[coarse fjord]

Yes. His haki, as in his techniques as well as proficiency

[red lagoon]

Luffy haki can still grow I agree tbh

[sweet anvil]

His haki is already top tier the way I see it it still needs to be sharpened but his stamina and gear 5th mastery are bigger issues

[coarse fjord]

Top tier?

[red lagoon]

After seeing the conq that joyboy let off and shanks somehow having the ability to cut off observation

[sweet anvil]

Yes

[unique lagoon]

we dont even know the limit on how strong an armament can be

[red lagoon]

Luffy deffo has top tier haki but there always more