also-manga

[solid stone]

forgot how much i loved elbaf's setting

[hazy turret]

Arsal, have you never seen abusive/toxic parents?

[solid stone]

dang loki too

[olive sigil]

Teach’s weird body explained

[vale heath]

I forgot about Zyphyris

[solid stone]

how does he get in?????

[solid stone]

[maiden saffron]

big door

[strong wadi]

The castle is actually a hologram

[vale heath]

He has a shallow sea mark at this point and we know you can travel through abyss portals with a mark at all, doesn’t have to be a deep one
So there’s an abyss portal in the castle in a really big industrial sized room

[digital spear]

He could just carry them

[solid stone]

why does he look like a nightmare shadow here

[remote maple]

mu is liquid

[vale heath]

Because he is a nightmare shadow

[digital spear]

Imagine how awkward it must be for him to go behind them

[maiden saffron]

looks hilarious here

[digital spear]

He has to be really slow

[strong wadi]

Wait how do we know the lowest level can

[grand flower]

Interesting

[vale heath]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/738580480437387264/1348628301912215624/image.png?ex=69341c7b&is=6932cafb&hm=2fe6525b1b9847f85065bf26868443c70d6056588c309afcf2b7a622f42cd476&

It’d be silly to mark them for no benefit at all

[solid stone]

woah

haven't seen a page like this since the kuma flashback

[iron oriole]

This is probably the only thing the 1st tier gives you

[vale heath]

Right

[strong wadi]

Aight

[rich hornet]

It would make sense if they couldnt. Because if they could why not summon shanks back

[wraith mantle]

Who’s a worse leader, harald or oden?

[maiden saffron]

next chapter is gonna move mountains

[olive sigil]

Pre cane Saturn

[urban lodge]

Neither

[strong wadi]

Well they can’t force him to take a portal I guess

[maiden saffron]

none of them are bad leaders

[wraith mantle]

One of them has to be worse than the other

[maiden saffron]

but they were naive

[olive sigil]

Harald is a lot worse

[wet condor]

They're about equal to me

[strong wadi]

I’d say if I had to say, Oden is worse

[urban lodge]

Well Oden's failure had worse consequences

[solid stone]

oh we're getting close to that incident huh

[wet condor]

Harald's kind of worked out better for his people because they got some good things out of his leadership

[urban lodge]

Elbaf is doing mostly fine without Harald

[wet condor]

Oden didn't even do any leading really lol

[maiden saffron]

elbaf is doing fine, likely because Loki killed Harald

[vale heath]

I think the message here is that setting peace as your goal is foolish. Peace is an outcome, but you shouldn’t pursue an outcome to the exclusion of other things.

[strong wadi]

I mean, Harald didn’t abandon his own country when he knew it was in trouble 👁️

[digital spear]

It wasnt in trouble when he left

[rose rune]

don't you remember what it was like before the flashback? the children were starving, the mothers had to eat grass and the men went out to drink seawater

elbaf was in shambles

[strong wadi]

It was when he dropped off Toki and the kids

[solid stone]

dang

[digital spear]

that was to get to Laugh Tale which is the most important thing anyone can do

[urban lodge]

The seals were forced to eat cement...

[solid stone]

flashback's coming to a close

[rich hornet]

They forced Sommers through in his underwear. Neither him or killingham seemed to initiate or were even aware they were being warped

[solid stone]

we were in this for a minute

[strong wadi]

They have the higher level mark

[rose rune]

not forced... but yeah, they did eat cement

[solid stone]

what was the situation before the fb started again

[leaden rivet]

And that can make you bad

[strong wadi]

Still considered a bad leader for his country

[rich hornet]

Exactly

[maiden saffron]

True

[strong wadi]

And shanks doesn’t

[rich hornet]

Which implies shallows can’t teleport

[maiden saffron]

elbaf is a country of brutes and giants are feared, and looked down upon

no one wants to interact with them

[strong wadi]

And Imu says you still can disobey Imu with the lowest level

[digital spear]

Can we say that if Toki forced him to go

[solid stone]

oh naw, i meant what were the starw hats doing before

wondering how the return chapter's gonna go down

last i remember gunko got taken over by imu

[maiden saffron]

luffy and a few are talking to loki currently, and he's telling this story

[strong wadi]

Yes, because she didn’t force him to go. He’s a grown man who can make his own decisions.

[solid stone]

gotcha gotcha

[olive sigil]

I think the problem is harald came to a point where he started hating what made him who he is. He hated himself and his culture. He cared about the giants being accepted but not as themselves. Sure they did some bad stuff but their culture was erased to fit in and that’s not a good thing. Harald saw himself as the evil guy and destroyed his nation because of it. He let go of his friendships and skipped out on a lot of stuff happening to his family to try to atone for his crimes but his hate towards the giant culture really clouded his vision

[maiden saffron]

even though it got hijacked into a bigger flashback

with info that loki doesnt actually know about

[wet condor]

Toki didn't really force Oden to go. If Oden did what I think shoguns have done and are generally obligated to do, then he would've prioritized his country above everything else and addressed what was going on there

[maiden saffron]

the others are currently with gaban and the kids, trying to fight the holy knights

[solid stone]

lol this is like the oden flashback but even bigger

[strong wadi]

It’s not like she paw paw’d him away from wano, and even then, he should have went right back lol

[digital spear]

She threatened him to get divorced

[urban lodge]

It just surpassed the Oden flashback in length too

[digital spear]

He did go right back

[strong wadi]

Naive enough to believe that threat

Bad leader quality smh

[maiden saffron]

I absolutely love this flashback though, it's the most rewarding flashback so far in the story

it might become my favorite, but only a re-read can decide that

[leaden rivet]

Could shamrock have warned shanks about making the final contract? Why did he just up and leave

[urban lodge]

Maybe

[digital spear]

Just undermined how important it was to get to Laugh Tale, something the people of Wano have worked towards for 800 years as well

[strong wadi]

Trust that he talked to people in the flashback and heard all of this

[urban lodge]

Or Shanks figured it out himself

[maiden saffron]

what do you think about shamrock actually being a good guy

[leaden rivet]

Shamrock isn’t a good guy but he may have a good heart somewhere

[maiden saffron]

i think Shanks figured it out on his own, and just knows about it because he's a high ranking cd

[dry hamlet]

It’s pretty obvious he isn’t

[strong wadi]

I mean, that’s part of being a leader. Prioritizing. He prioritized something that wasn’t Wano. So he’s a bad leader for Wano.

[vestal mural]

I’m assuming shanks was acting the whole time with his pompous attitude lol. So he either figured it out or just finished what he came there to do

[wraith mantle]

Shanks probably just asked the logical question of “what do I give up for getting immortality and extra strength”

[strong wadi]

His decision was best for the world, but not for wano

[ashen perch]

I mean I have but I just meant that he doesn't necessarily have to hate his sons

[digital spear]

Shamrock is a good guy, maybe hes just not a 100% bad guy or has some good guy qualities in him but hes still rather bad

[thin quest]

not good, but he and Garling I think have their own separate agenda from Imu and the WG though

[vestal mural]

Yea true but it’s not like he cared much before he left. He was literally disowned too lmao

[strong wadi]

Because he knew he couldn’t be a spy anymore with the higher level contract.

[rich hornet]

Shamrock separate from Garling I imagine

[wraith mantle]

Harald’s only question was “will elbaf join the WG if I become a holy knight?”

[thin quest]

you think?

[ashen perch]

Don't think there's extra strength tbh

[maiden saffron]

How much do you think doffy actually knew about how the WG operates?

if at all

[strong wadi]

He doesn’t need shamrock to inform him of it. And even if he did, it could just be a casual conversation and not like a, “shanks you have to leave”

[digital spear]

Just because he left Wano doesnt mean he prioritized something that wasnt Wano, leaders have to leave their countries FOR the country sometimes and its rarely as urgent as when Oden did it

[leaden rivet]

How did he know?

[wraith mantle]

Harald said he felt power

[ashen perch]

Harald just meant that he could feel the power of immortality surging through his body

[leaden rivet]

Harald didn’t know what the contract entailed

[maiden saffron]

Yeah i didn't read that into literally being more powerful

[strong wadi]

He’s not a celestial dragon and doesn’t spend time in marejois

[wraith mantle]

Possible interpretation

[rich hornet]

Garling also made it sound like there’s a power boost when he compared the twins

[latent hamlet]

Shanks left cuz he wanted to be a hakiman not a devilman

[maiden saffron]

i wouldn't put much stock in that. Like obviously you're a better fighter if you can't die

[strong wadi]

When they leave their country when their country is in need, it’s to ask for aid to help their country lol

[maiden saffron]

so you're more "powerful"

[distant vine]

Maybe Shanks got whatever he came there for

[maiden saffron]

i think that's what they mean

[distant vine]

Which Im assuming is information

[strong wadi]

I mean the jig is up. He can’t stay when he knows they’re going to promote him

[digital spear]

and when Oden left the country, he was shouldering the duty the country had for 800 years

[hazy turret]

I don’t think he hates them but I definitely don’t think he loves them either

[rich hornet]

Doesn’t seem like a coincidence that he would intercept the gomu gomu shortly after

[strong wadi]

Tell that to the people that died in those 20 years under slavery

[dense haven]

the new mark is probably the one that let's imu take over and shanks didn't want that

[strong wadi]

I mean this is the obvious conclusion

[digital spear]

That was not because he left for Laugh Tale

[distant vine]

Demon-Demon Fruit goes crazy

[strong wadi]

It’s part of it. He could have nipped the problem in the bud, but instead he let the bud grow by leaving

[distant vine]

Wait, Loki knows how to defeat the demon powers. So yeah he certainly was the one to kill Harald

[ashen perch]

Warcury does basically confirm it

[maiden saffron]

Hito hito no mi, model imu

the one bb has

[latent hamlet]

Im gonna laugh so much if imu is
Demon demon fruit
Model: Mephistopheles

[maiden saffron]

wait for the awakening..

[digital spear]

He couldve just nipped the problem in the bud after Laugh Tale

[latent hamlet]

To fit with the faust vibe contracts

[distant vine]

I saw people theorizing Imu killed Harald like Saturn but nah

[maiden saffron]

its still possible he did

[stone terrace]

I just realized they were gonna give loki a deep sea seal off rip

[urban lodge]

He just resisted it until Loki could kill him

[latent hamlet]

Loki built diff

[distant vine]

BB transforming into an Imu lookalike would be crazy

[latent hamlet]

One look and imu already wants to hire him

[strong wadi]

It could have been too late by then, theoretically. It wasn’t, but that’s luck on Oden’s part.

[digital spear]

Adam how long do you think Oden was away for Laugh Tale?

[distant vine]

"The agenda is he had to transform into a giant demon to beat Law"

[strong wadi]

Think it was 1 year, maybe 2

Enough for Toki and his entire family to die

[digital spear]

It was in the same year

[latent hamlet]

It was just 1 year with Roger i think
Same with Crocus

[digital spear]

So we dunno if it even was like months or weeks or even days lol

[latent hamlet]

Roger was kinda speedrunning once he got oden

[rich hornet]

BB doesn’t have Imu’s power, yet. By then we’ll have found out it was actually Davy Jones’ power and Imu stole it

[maiden saffron]

I'm fairly confident the reason BB wanted the darkness fruit is to do with imu

something that we will find out

[strong wadi]

It’s possible the yami yami’s “dimension” is the same as the abyss

[digital spear]

Oden joined Roger 26 years ago then it was 25 years ago when they did their final parts of the journey and then reached Laugh Tale and Oden returned

[latent hamlet]

Dark vs Abyss

[maiden saffron]

He was not just looking for it to mid-diff armament users

[latent hamlet]

Ace was just a test run

[strong wadi]

A lot can happen in 1 year. I hope you realize this

[digital spear]

Im saying it wasnt a year

[wet condor]

Ready to get those giants tamed lol

[hazy turret]

time to read chapter

[hot cairn]

what did you guys think of the chapter

[digital spear]

It was the same year, so we dont know if it was days/weeks/months

[strong wadi]

Good

[rich hornet]

It was a little frustrating tbh

[distant vine]

I'm so ready to read Zoro fighting off an army of demons

[strong wadi]

Fine. A lot can happen in a month. The murder of his entire family. A complete coup. The murdering of all his vassals. You name it.

[sly belfry]

2 more chapters this year

perchance?

[rich hornet]

Maybe not

[stone terrace]

2 month break

[latent hamlet]

What would be a good new years / Christmas chapter

[dense haven]

how many mothers did oda kill in total

[latent hamlet]

Loki saying 'ill join the fight"

[strong wadi]

I can’t believe Oda nerfed broggy just a little bit (by breaking his arm) so he’s Sanji’s opponent and dorry is Zoro’s

[urban lodge]

Ideally returning to the present

[dense haven]

it's a month break

[sly belfry]

he's killed 7 moms since wci

[urban lodge]

But I really doubt it

[dense haven]

no more chapters this year

[distant vine]

I really dont want those fights

Im sorry

[strong wadi]

Rocks’, Loki’s, hajrudin’s, shanks/shanrock’s

[digital spear]

The murdering of all his vassals couldnt have happened in his mind because he trusted them and their strength and they protected his family

[rich hornet]

Well that’s too bad

[strong wadi]

So he got lucky they didn’t move within that time period

Pretty bad leader to rely on luck

[digital spear]

Who moved?

[strong wadi]

Orochi and Kaido with a complete takeover of Wano

[digital spear]

He didnt even know there was anyone to move

He just had a bad feeling

[strong wadi]

Yeah and not knowing is his failure as a leader

[digital spear]

Thats not the part where he failed at tho

[strong wadi]

He failed there first, yes, it just gets ignored for the dancing

[digital spear]

Technically he failed earlier then

Why was he abroad while his father was "killed" and his country overtaken? Failure as a leader

[dense haven]

true

[strong wadi]

At that point, it’s mostly his father that’s the failure, but oden can share 10% of that failure

[digital spear]

Okay

I think ill accept Oden should have put his family somewhere else than Wano but he absolutely needed to go to Laugh Tale now, they couldnt risk anything

[strong wadi]

If I was oden, and I felt that I absolutely needed to help Roger get to laughtale, I’m making Rayleigh sit his ass on wano and guard my family and country

[ashen perch]

He did want to stay after he had a bad feeling, Toki just threatened him with divorce probably because she knew how important getting to the One Piece was

[stone terrace]

Toki and ida DOOMED their countries

[wet condor]

The thing, Oden went with Roger on a gut feeling. It wasn't some sort of measured calculation on hsi hpart or for the betterment of his people

[stone terrace]

[ashen perch]

Toki Saved the World if anything

[strong wadi]

https://preview.redd.it/the-moment-you-realise-oden-roger-rayleigh-could-of-dealt-v0-i4dksgoc41j91.jpg?width=649&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=319a8f2fb13cdd41c86c18180cef4d8674ef91ee

Bro knows

[digital spear]

Well he left his vassals and idk if Oden powerscales like that

[strong wadi]

Bad leader for not powerscaling then

[ashen perch]

Because the One Piece holds the fate of the world itself, thats what was more important

[pine scaffold]

EGGHEAD ENDS IN DECEMBER

https://x.com/pewpiece/status/1996927511330975883

Pew (@pewpiece)

BREAKING 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

THE FINAL EPISODE OF THE EGGHEAD ARC OF THE ONE PIECE ANIME WILL AIR ON DECEMBER 28

4 EPISODES LEFT

X · Dec 5, 2025, 12:59 PM

[digital spear]

Well this also kinda says if he stayed he would already die in Wano, there would be no finding of Laugh Tale, Roger dies, Imu wins, and thats bad for Wano in the long run

[olive sigil]

Bro thinks he’s mailbox

[strong wadi]

Again, tell that to the thousands of people who died under the tyranny of Orochi and Kaido

[wet condor]

But Oden didn't know this and Toki didn't explain why he needed to do it

[ashen perch]

She didnt, she just said he can't turn back

[wet condor]

Like yeah we're talking about this in terms of OP, but in the real world, what Oden did was a failure to his own people

[ashen perch]

The world is bigger than Wano

[strong wadi]

Is oden the leader of the world?

[rich hornet]

And that’s okay

[ashen perch]

Toki clearly came back from the past with a mission that she couldn't really tell anybody about, Oden shouldered that responsibility along with her

[strong wadi]

Politics rule really cooking me rn

[ashen perch]

I mean we can just stick to One Piece, I am just saying that this is the clear explanation for why Oden didn't turn back

[digital spear]

See this is the result I say that wouldnt change if Oden stayed or left for Laugh Tale and then came back, but if you say it could have happened though then we arent talking about results anymore but possibilities. So what if Rayleigh isnt strong enough for the force that Oden thinks is in Wano and dies so his family dies regardless

[ashen perch]

Why's Rayleigh coming in here

[strong wadi]

I mean I say Rayleigh is stronger than oden so I don’t have this issue.

[ashen perch]

He's not strong enough

[strong wadi]

If oden had to leave for his skills of poneglyph reading, he should leave an equivalent or better fighter

Can’t be Gaban since he’s the navigator

[ashen perch]

And if his strength is so necessary, its also needed for Roger's crew anyways

[stone terrace]

Who would do the vice captaining

[strong wadi]

[ashen perch]

Rayleigh is getting dropped by Kaido the same way, its not really making a difference

Actually really, maybe worse

[barren token]

what was the last thing that happened int he anime

[strong wadi]

Rayleigh dropping that fool, but more importantly, he dropping Orochi and the 2 kurozumi

[ashen perch]

But I'm not gonna get into the powerscaling of things here, it doesn't matter

[urban lodge]

Last ep was Nika Bonney

[sly belfry]

bonnika

[strong wadi]

The combined punch against Saturn

[ashen perch]

Rayleigh is not killing Kaido, lets be very realistic here

[olive sigil]

Roger can’t complete his dream without everyone in his crew

[strong wadi]

Saw everyone meming on the punch cause it went back to classic toei shenangians

[hazy turret]

Good chapter

[strong wadi]

He can though

[urban lodge]

The Mars punch was really painful to watch

[digital spear]

We just disagree then I just dont think the characters can powerscale each other like that

[strong wadi]

Oops I meant mars punch

[urban lodge]

But Nika Bonney was good

[ashen perch]

I don't think Saturn is punched down to the sea yet, we just had Mars get Team Rocket'd

Thats next episode

Next episode probably ends at it, like the chapter should have

But Oda was rushing

[sturdy steeple]

Hopefully ends at it

Yeah

[barren token]

are you rushing or are you dragging?

[sturdy steeple]

I like it and hate it at the same time.

[ashen perch]

Toei once again fixing Oda's mistakes....

How did that even happen, wasnt that the first episode to adapt two FULL chapters too?

I saw the clip and that went like 2 minutes for absolutely no reason, looked so stupid

[hazy turret]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-miles-teller-andrew-whiplash-what-gif-18304619

[ashen perch]

Since like Thriller Bark I mean

[distant vine]

Which one?

[sturdy steeple]

You mean like the last episode

Mars?

[urban lodge]

The combined attack

[distant vine]

Mars waiting for them in Mariejois like he's waiting in a multiplayer game lobby is still hilarious to me

[ashen perch]

Yeah

[sturdy steeple]

Idk honestly

Like I get that Mars is resisting but dude

[ashen perch]

It adapted two full chapters and they were very packed too, haven't seen the episode but that's what I heard

[distant vine]

Oh I remember now. Why?

[ashen perch]

And still, one scene felt like it was from Wano Act 1 lmao

[urban lodge]

It was just so unbelievably dragged

[sturdy steeple]

It's very nicely animated but they messed up the pacing.

[ashen perch]

Remember that Urashima struggle?

That's what it reminded me of

[sturdy steeple]

Yeah that was the worst case of pacing

Like it hasn't been as bad ever again

[distant vine]

I hated that fight lmao

[real trout]

Hey guys... do we know if rudo (the giant) is a cp0 operative?

[distant vine]

I was still anime only by then

[ashen perch]

It was fun in the manga but the anime just dragged it so much

[rich hornet]

That’s the first episode I watched since PH and the last I’ve watched since

[ashen perch]

I can understand hating it there

[sturdy steeple]

This is what I will say

It's an amazing episode but the director is still quite young.

[ashen perch]

But yea, the Mars attack felt the same to me lmao

[sturdy steeple]

She's still learning the ropes basically.

And I can get behind that.

[strong wadi]

The exact opposite actually

[ashen perch]

I haven't seen the episode yet so can't judge the episode, just seen the Bonnika clip and that Mars clip

Bonnika was amazing atleast

[languid juniper]

who needed this discord recap wtf

[ashen perch]

Also, Rodo was out there kidnapping Cipher Pol agents for fun, he is definitely not part of it

[wet condor]

Ehhh, failing the people who you are supposed to lead is not an okay thing. If you're the head of a nation, you've got obligations to them and they should always take priority. At least that's how I'd be operating as a head of state. I mean it's going to be alright in a sense that Oden's work will be used for freeing the rest of the world

[strong wadi]

Yeah I had to double check there wasn’t a giant named rudo

[ashen perch]

In the past month or so, they had been sending Cipher Pol agents to Elbaf for scouting iirc, I think Gunko mentions it

And Rodo was turning all of them into livedolls

[strong wadi]

Like maybe that was that’s who Loki was choking out last chapter or something

[sturdy steeple]

Yeah Rodo was kidnapping people and even kidnapped the guys that were sent as the informators to Elbaf

[grand flower]

Those could be Lokis stink men

[wet condor]

Same lol

[rich hornet]

Not saying Oden knew how important it was, but if he did had all the info it’s the right choice. You’re talking about the lives of some of your citizens vs the future of your entire nation

[long basin]

the guardian of elbaf

[sturdy steeple]

My god, could you imagine us tearing each other apart if we had a rule that allowed real political examples?

[olive sigil]

Road upscale

[ashen perch]

It was before I was in the server but they did allow it at one point, was pretty bad from what I heard

[sturdy steeple]

I don't remember so whatever. But funny to imagine.

[ashen perch]

But yeah, I don't think you really need to in 99.99% cases

Just stick to One Piece

[wet condor]

The way OP is structured, if Oden doesn't go on that trip, then it could be bad for Wano in the future, yeah

[hazy turret]

But

[ashen perch]

Some of them were like CP6, so he's stronger than Nero atleast

[tranquil blade]

Nero level

[grand flower]

Wonder how this foreshadows Imu

Let’s go back to Nero’s scenes together Arsal

[ashen perch]

He kinda looks like Mihawk

Well dresses like him

[urban lodge]

The Road thing is kinda insane, he's probably responsible for like hundreds of deaths

[hazy turret]

Of all the Mihawk slander I’ve seen throughout the years

[ashen perch]

They were all pirates or Government agents, its fine

Rodo is chill for that

[vestal mural]

Rodo sympathizers before gta 6

[hazy turret]

There are many of them

[rich hornet]

Does he just know not to mess with any of Shank’s friends

[distant vine]

Sexual harassment, kidnapping, reckless endagerement, theft. But he's a navigator so...

[wet condor]

Oda kind of pigeonholes the decisions in this way. Like, if Oden doesn't go on that trip with Roger, then that can lead to bad things for Wano. Maybe even worse than if he had stayed. So it'll wind up working for the best in the long-term in a way. In OP, the circumstances and stakes coincidentally force this kind of thing to happen while in real life they are never really like this lol

[rich hornet]

Oda likes his idealism

[latent hamlet]

Im ngl we need a name recap of some of the elbaf giants
Cuz i need 1

[wet condor]

Yeah

[sly belfry]

they're al bums no need to remember them

[grand flower]

I think it’s just okay that Oden made a decision that hurt his country

Every time people talk about oden I find myself thinking

“Yall remember he died for all that right?”

[sly belfry]

loki is the only one you need to remember

[grand flower]

Like, oden fucked up

And then he died for it

I feel like it’s just that simple

[hazy turret]

Will you say the same for Garp

[wet condor]

It depends how bad you fucked up lol

[latent hamlet]

The real reason every1 slanders harald is cuz it reminds them of oden

[grand flower]

Depends on the consequences of Garp’s actions

[rich hornet]

Except Harald did everything wrong

[latent hamlet]

Every1 be like theres no way he has CoC

Meanwhile ace and kidd:

[grand flower]

It’s pretty clear to me that Oda is going down the road of “rebelling marines are the ones who liked Garp”

[hazy turret]

Rent free

[rich hornet]

Harald didn’t turn a blind eye to the Orochi’s and Kaido’s, he rolled out the red carpet for them

[latent hamlet]

Elbaf has shifted to the peace that he and Ida wanted

He technically accomplished his goals

Just that harald had to pay up

With his life

[wet condor]

Yeah lol

[latent hamlet]

If anything blame Ida for convincing Harald

[grand flower]

Harald had literally no idea they were about to get down like this

[urban lodge]

How about we blame Imu

[grand flower]

The only warning he had was Rocks

[latent hamlet]

Because no 1 cares about blaming the bad guy

[rich hornet]

He had more than enough reason to be able to figure it out

[shell scroll]

Nah ida fault I agree

[wet condor]

Jarul gave him one too

It wasn't the same or as explicit as Rocks'

[grand flower]

Mind you, rocks was the same guy who visited Harald with a group of followers who’d regularly say “I can’t wait for rocks to die”

[iron oriole]

How about we blame Harald for thinking the secret ruler of the world was gonna uphold their side of the "deal"

[hazy turret]

But it’s clear harald was taking what she believes way too far

[rich hornet]

Harald is blinded by his own self hatred. Even Ida thought he went too far

[grand flower]

Idk why anyone expects him to have believed rocks

[bleak plover]

Based, I wish my followers acted the same.

[latent hamlet]

Thats fair, thats on him

which they should have talked about but apparently not

[grand flower]

The only clue really was that the government engaged in slavery at all

[wet condor]

Well Jarul told him about what happened with Galley-La

[grand flower]

Harald doesnt know they were about extent of their depravity

[grand flower]

Rumors and half stories

[wet condor]

"Your meeting fell through, and it may not be your fault"

[iron oriole]

"Why is there a secret ruler of the World? Hmm i should totally trust them"

[rich hornet]

He spent time in Mariejois. You can’t miss it

[grand flower]

I mentioned the slave thing earlier

[ashen perch]

I do think Harald's end is atleast somewhat redeeming him, he realized it late, sure, but he still atleast messed with the WG's plans to the point they still resent him

[grand flower]

That’s what he would see in Marijoa

[bleak plover]

I feel like people judge Harald based on their nigh omniscient perspective as readers, but are completely missing the ideas that drove Harald to act the way he did.

[wet condor]

And he doesn't even inquire further about it

[iron oriole]

Absolute madness

[long basin]

He's from the U.S., trust

[distant vine]

He was also kinda backed into a corner. The WG has all the leverage in dealing with Harald. If he refused they would just drop him immediately and then Elbaph is outcasted

[hazy turret]

Is Oda sending a message to anyone that hates their own culture and history?

[wet condor]

Like if Imu told Harald the true history of why there's a world ruler and Harald still decides to go through with this

Like it's indefensible at that point

[olive sigil]

Which is?

[grand flower]

Exactly. They apply what they know about Imu.

They also ignore that Harald himself used to be a complete scumbag so his only outlook would be to see where the government can progress

[distant vine]

Well Ida said he should appreciate the warrior side too, so the message is to have a level headed critique

[grand flower]

But what’s inherently negative about Imus position?

Well not negative

[latent hamlet]

I do find it funny that people say harald should have stopped cuz "wg does slavery"
Meanwhile elbaf has centuries of history of being warmongering destroyers

[grand flower]

What’s inherently evil?

[hazy turret]

Huh?

[iron oriole]

Nobody is supposed to sit on the throne & have single rule

[sturdy steeple]

He was desperate for a reason. Flashback does show the struggles of Elbaf pretty clearly, yeah.

[ashen perch]

And it was his ideals for what a Giant should be that allowed him to do that, his resentment of violence is what helped him at the end. That's what he learnt from Ida. A giant who loves war and violence and wants to join the WG would have been disastrous.

[wet condor]

Well, it's based on a lie is the thing lol

[rich hornet]

Fully untrue. We can understand and sympathize with the reasoning behind his actions and still recognize he was objectively wrong and blinded by self-hatred. He’s a flawed character

[tranquil blade]

I think it's moreso the deception aspect of it

[sturdy steeple]

But I think that will be ignored in the favour of "yep he's dumb" for the majority.

[distant vine]

I would agree that self hatred biased his view

[latent hamlet]

The first few pages of the recent chapter had to remind people that the view on elbaf and giants have changed

But every1 conveniently ignores it

[wet condor]

Like Harald was like "there's not supposed to be someone on that throne as a symbol that no one person should rule" and then there's someone on there

[grand flower]

Lemme be clear for Yall, I’m talking about from the perspective of Harald

Why would he, upon learning that Imus sits on the throne, inherently assume that means Imu is malicious or evil?

[tranquil blade]

The idea of the empty throne is to show there is no sole ruler or despot of the world, but it's not true as Harald finds out

[wet condor]

Yeah, like this should be setting off alarms

[grand flower]

Is Harald to think Imu is the only king who’s lied?

[distant vine]

Yeah a lot of fans will skip the mental labor and just go "Erm he dumb why not just join Rocks?"

[real trout]

Oh i see, i thought he was because he uses their terminology and wears their clothes... but alright

[urban lodge]

Oda does a great job showing the psychological aspect of it that led to him making these decisions

[wet condor]

Because the throne is supposed to be empty and yet there's a guy sitting on it

[sly belfry]

why didnt harald do as i ask

[latent hamlet]

I have a better question

Harald: why are you sitting on the throne!?
Imu: u got a fucking problem?
Harald: erm uh no

[sly belfry]

is he dumb

[iron oriole]

It should 100% be making you question things, hell i'd have started questioning things the moment the Gorosei told me about "God"

[urban lodge]

That scene of him beating up that giant was really sad

[bleak plover]

He took it upon himself to restore the reputation of his people, a reputation that took several centuries of constant ruination, and turned it around within a couple of decades, he is the inverse of Oden in the way he saw the history of his people, the damage they've done, and did everything in his power to make reparations for it.

[cunning jacinth]

? if the WG is lying about the throne being empty why would they tell the truth about their plans for Elbaf?

[sturdy steeple]

Oh, also, nice to see you, Steph.

[grand flower]

Same thing I asked Avery tbh is Harald supposed to be under the impression that the good kings he’s met have never lied for a good reason?

[ashen perch]

Oh yeah welcome back Steph

[bleak plover]

Yeah, Harald had borderline self-hatred, but his actions were mostly driven for the explicit purpose of bringing Giants up in the world stage.

[latent hamlet]

Literally some chapters ago

Harald: I SAVED U
Citizens: you're ok Harald. The rest of the giants tho? Yeah they can stay in their filthy island where they belong!
Harald: 🙁

[deep chasm]

pretty sure if the whole concept of fairness in WG is that theres no king on the throne, then if there happens to be a person on the throne controlling everything in the shadows you should start to question things

[sacred flume]

Yeah but it’s too late atp not enough for you to call it into question

[wet condor]

I mean, yes. If the story about why the throne is empty is because no one person should rule. And yet there is a supreme ruler sitting on it

[grand flower]

Yeah they lied about that, my question is do you expect Harald to make the immediate leap of “they lied so they must be villains?”

[deep chasm]

doesnt mean you have to assume hes evil sure, but you should be considering that the king probably is not a good thing lol

[latent hamlet]

Never mind being king
It just sucks in general to be hit with "you're one of the good ones"

[grand flower]

It’s kinda funny if so becausw the alternative you guys propose is helping rocks

[iron oriole]

Just somebody sitting on the throne is absolutely enough to question shit

[grand flower]

Someone who has also lied to Harald

[rich hornet]

It’s his failure that he couldnt see a way to do this without submitting to the WG. He absolutely could have if he embraced Elbaph for the good and the bad instead of fully demonizing their warrior culture

[deep chasm]

well yes you should think that to yourself lol. You would at least question if that is the case

[sturdy steeple]

That and Elbaf just suffering from starvation. You can see in real time where Harald is convinced he actually needs to beg.

[ashen perch]

I mean I would say to an extent, the self hatred was justified because the giants were terrorizing the world for centuries. Harald isn't in the wrong there either

[grand flower]

Rocks’ first interaction with Elbaph as a nation was an act of deception

[latent hamlet]

Rocks: they'll turn u into an army!
Harald: u want the same
Rocks: but im nice about it!

[grand flower]

He attacked Loki and made him lie to Harald about it

[stone terrace]

Naive idealist meets ruthless pragmatist

[bleak plover]

And that's why he tried so hard, sacrificing EVERYTHING in the process. He knew leaving behind a legacy of "Harald was okay for a giant" wasn't enough. He wanted to leave the world a place Giants could be active participants, contributors, and welcomed members of.

[stone terrace]

No surprise what happened

[sacred flume]

One it was already too late for to question anything standing in front of imu with the mark

Two Harald already expressed that he lost his best friend over this and wants to see it through

[cunning jacinth]

yeah, kind of? if one of the government's biggest founding principles is a complete lie, what else are they secretly plotting

[leaden rivet]

I don’t think Harald is actually like that stupid he was just far too desperate

[latent hamlet]

Bro got hit with centuries of "you're an ok giant but I aint trusting any other"

[iron oriole]

The Empty Throne having someone sat on it is basically the WGs biggest lie that they told the entire world... the moment you see someone sat there it should 100% start the alarm bells

[grand flower]

Shanks lied to buggy about the treasure map, evil shanks confirmed?

[distant vine]

Im glad Oda showed the giants rep being improved at the start of this chapter

[leaden rivet]

I suppose the desperation could be said to make him stupid

[sacred flume]

You to question it not Harald question anything regardless of him questioning anything it was too late

[leaden rivet]

No difference either way

[bleak plover]

Meanwhile the bickering guys behind him: "I wish Rocks would die already."

[hazy turret]

Lmao

[deep chasm]

No its not. Its never too late to have thoughts in your head. if he decided it was too late to act on the realization, sure bro. The problem is he didnt even do that. He didnt even consider that Imu could be bad.

Wanting to see it through also does not mean you go in blindly to shit, thats why hes currently regretting it

[stone terrace]

The alarm bells werent him being the king of the slavers?

[latent hamlet]

Also like
Remember he fucking went ballistic on 2 giants that fucked around after rocks death while screaming i cant turn back now

[grand flower]

You gonna act like you don’t see my point

And that’s cool

[deep chasm]

do you think these two things are equivalent

its not just any lie

[sacred flume]

Not stupid naive, you can’t call him stupid for not knowing something the reader know

[bleak plover]

Explain how you achieve that within a lifetime.

[wet condor]

Based on why the throne is supposed to be empty, yes. And considering that the people who genocided an island of people.

I'd be willing to cut Harald some more slack — though I can't completely excuse his behavior — if he inquired further and they fed him a lie. Now we can say that's what happened, offscreen but we didn't see any of that.

[distant vine]

I think Harald is naive in that he saw the WG as total allies rather as rulers he needs to be shrewd in dealing with

[olive sigil]

My problem with him is perception of himself. He wants Elbaf to do better but he’s never thought about how it impacts himself. He’s ready to give up on their culture because he hates what he did when he was young. He sees his culture as evil. And that’s really sad. For me regardless of if the wg was evil, he shouldn’t have tried to part with his culture. His self hatred has led to him leaving his friends behind and not being present for his family in needing times

[latent hamlet]

Rocks: i got a crew that'll help me!

Meanwhile the crew: so we should pawn off his sword right?

[ashen perch]

There's just no turning back at that point anyways, actually there's been no turning back for him since Xebec died, but yeah. What truly broke him is the realization that Imu wants them to go back to war and violence as he turns them into his slave soldiers.

[wet condor]

Yeah, he's desparate to see it through before he dies

[bleak plover]

@sturdy steeple@ashen perch
I'm really glad to see you again too, I missed ya lots!

[hazy turret]

A belief that’s held the wg together for centuries vs lying about a map

[latent hamlet]

I dont think he saw WG as total allies
But he needed that WG endorsement BAD

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/gdfactory-gif-17246498409427376873

[sacred flume]

You’re using readers knowledge to form that opinion, had you not known anything about the wg you wouldn’t think this way

[deep chasm]

Theres such thing as lies that arent as big of a deal as others.

When the idea of fairness in the world depends on there being no king on the throne, then someone sitting there would imply theyre lying about the world being fair. That means a lot more than shanks tricking buggy about a map

[latent hamlet]

Even tho elbaf didnt become a member nation
Harald's efforts alongside the WG helped clear the bad name

[grand flower]

Even so, I don’t think it’s unreasonable or foolish that Harald didnt immediately assume Imu was an agent of evil just because they lied

Harald has only seen the government at work and seen the benefit of it. He would also be ascribing that to Imu in that moment

[sacred flume]

Yes in turn Harald got more out of the deal than the wg did

[stone terrace]

Harald spent 20+years visiting mariejois and has seen government policy first hand

[wet condor]

The thing is Shuron. It's what the lie was about. He doesn't inquire further. And then when he says that he's actually thinking of relinquishing his crown, Imu tells him it's not his decision lol

[grand flower]

That’s where Harald seeing the government in practice comes in. Imu orchestrated the government to very much appear as a real working thing for this very purpose

[olive sigil]

I don’t think restoring a reputation is worth destroying an entire culture. The thing he’s built isn’t Elbaf

[stone terrace]

Policy by the way, not corruption

[latent hamlet]

Unironically outside of the pentagram, WG hasn't really...gained much from Harald's work

[noble carbon]

If someone grabs Buggy's feet as Buggy is carrying this person, would he able to fly indefinitely

[latent hamlet]

Harald just fucked up some pirate ships. Big whoops I guess??

[cunning narwhal]

him not joining the wg but not teaming up with xebec is another option. he still sees rocks as a criminal

[rich hornet]

The same way he already made a ton of allies who saved Elbaph from the famine. The difference being when he sees one of them being raided by CP, he stands up and protects them. And shows unaffiliated kingdoms he can help protect them from the WG. That they can form their own coalition.

It would go on to happen under the yonko, anyways. Harald had the military might to make that happen but he would never accept that path

[latent hamlet]

And the marines got giants but meh?

Harald was probably asking if any1 would like to volunteer to help

[stone terrace]

Harald trying to achieve this in a lifetime is exactly what his fn problem was

[deep chasm]

What did I say in that message that is using a readiers view? Also you know Harald is aware of the idea that theres meant to be no king on the throne, or else he wouldnt have been confused by it in the first place

[latent hamlet]

And those giants were like I wanna do some good

[ashen perch]

Yeah, Harald ultimately foiled their plans, he did it late but they still absolutely resent him for it for good reason.

[stone terrace]

Youre trying to erase 1000 years of negative with 200 good ones

Thats not how it works

[leaden rivet]

I mean what other choice did he have? He couldn’t trust his successor to pursue his same ends.

[deep chasm]

Again, questioning something is an option. If he didnt immediately assume thats one thign. The issue is he didnt even consider to himself that imu may not be a good entity

[latent hamlet]

Bruh they be like
"THAT DAMNED HARALD HE RUINED EVERYTHING"

Every1: what did he do?
The answer: die

[deep chasm]

Imu also orchestrated the government to seem like it was made fair upon the basis that there was no king. So now that he sees a king exists, he should at least question it

[latent hamlet]

Even with the mfing pentagram they make it sound like harald fucking dropkicked imu off a cliff

[olive sigil]

I think he’s removing more than the negative

[grand flower]

The second part also isn’t that crazy, Harald joined an organization as a king. It makes sense that organization in any form would go “yeah you can’t just decide you arent the representative among us like that”

And again, it makes sense that seeing what the government is in practice is why Harald isn’t alarmed enough about the reveal to have pressed it further.

I don’t think “they must be evil!” is the only natural response to learning someone is on the empty throne

[bleak plover]

Also keep in mind Harald had two options:

1. Comply even if you disagree
2. Letting the world turn its back on Elbaf again

Keep in mind, when you've got a bad reputation and try to turn it around, it only takes one slip for that trust you built to not only go down, but to serve as a reminder not to ever trust you again. Harald had one shot, and it was do or die, there was no room to find a third way.

[distant vine]

Indeed

[deep chasm]

But he doesnt even seem to disagree

[latent hamlet]

Harald would at most think its sus af
But its also like
What is he supposed to do? He's too far in.

[distant vine]

I think his naivety affected his attitude about it but the outcome would have been the same even if he was wiser

[rich hornet]

Yes he was in too deep by that point anyways

[grand flower]

Which he does initially

[latent hamlet]

Bro be like YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO SIT THERE
Imu: ....and? You want your elbaf to join or not
"Well when u put it that way..."

[royal orchid]

https://fixupx.com/sandman_AP/status/1996428313783652825?t=qNDQSDICdl08LUH3MwAnoA&s=19

I just saw this tweet from sandman and I think it's really funny

sandman (@sandman_AP)

Viz official translated it as “Empty Throne,” but that rendering is too weak. It fails to capture the religious, metaphysical, illusory, and deceptive connotations carried by Japanese word 虚. That is why I'd translate it as **Void Throne** as in Void Century.🔥

**💬 82 🔁 239 ❤️ 5.2K 👁️ 875.7K **

FixupX · Dec 4, 2025, 3:56 AM

[deep chasm]

No he doesnt. Hes just shocked to find out theres a king, then he goes immediately to being completely loyal. He shows no concern over anything until Imu starts telling him to make elbaf into warriors

[bleak plover]

I think his grieving scene after Rocks' death pretty much showcases he is filled with regrets but is committed to his choices. He knows what he signed up for.

[royal orchid]

guys I wonder why it's translated as "The Empty Throne" on Viz

[grand flower]

See that’s what’s funny. Harald’s response to learning Theres a king of the world should have been to join rocks instead, a guy who wants to be king of the world?

[latent hamlet]

Rocks even straight up was like MAN FUCK YOUR PEACE GIMME YOUR WARRIORS

Harald: ....nah

[distant vine]

He should have joined Rocks in burning down ports. Way to invite people to visit your ports

[deep chasm]

Okay but oda can also very easily show if he was concerned over thesr things in his head. Instead he consistently has no worries. He just thinks everything WG is doing is great and perfect.

We saw oden show reluctancy in what he was doing for example, harald never does that

[bleak plover]

Gawd dang it, I forgor choptir released. I hope it's good.

[latent hamlet]

Harald: rocks what's your plan to bring peace to elbaf
Rocks: we're gonna go fuck up a country and steal their loot
Harald: ....and how does this help me?
Rocks: idunno

[wet condor]

It will add context to what we're talking about. Though it is unofficial lol

[grand flower]

He literally asks why someone is on the empty throne when he sees Imu

He acquiesced in the same scene, but it starts with him questioning it. What I’m saying is that it makes sense Harald is satisfied when they divert his attention with the surge of power from the mark because “they must be evil” is a few steps from “they lied about the throne”

[alpine trench]

I hate having to be busy on Sundays

[sacred flume]

Yes, but as I already said, you’re relying on reader’s knowledge. Harald being surprised by that fact doesn’t contradict his ideals, he’s already expressed that he sacrificed a lot to get where he is, and from his perspective, that approach has worked up to now. Simply seeing Imu isn’t enough for him to abandon everything if, in his mind, his methods have been effective the entire time.

[grand flower]

This is why I asked earlier

[alpine trench]

Read the chapter

Was really good

[royal orchid]

still 2/10 chapter

[grand flower]

Do y’all think Harald is supposed to be under the impression that no other king has lied?

[sacred flume]

Isn’t it supposed to be to say void throne

[alpine trench]

The cleaning of the scans this chapter was ROUGH

[royal orchid]

oda is a hack

[ashen perch]

half the chapter was unfinished so theres that too

[urban lodge]

Ida was too good for this world, it was only a matter of time

[latent hamlet]

Harald sees imu

And what is he supposed to do at that point
Even questioning imu would be dangerous lol

[alpine trench]

Even with the incomplete panels, I don’t mind that part, I’m sure when it’s released officially it’ll look better

[royal orchid]

the big text saying THE EMPTY THRONE is written in the manga

[bleak plover]

Doesn't the entire flashback feature Harald's struggle between what needs to be done and what he should/wants to do? I don't think he need to be explicitly told "hey, Harald is conflicted" when we've had like 20 chapters of that in a row.

[rich hornet]

Harald failed every wisdom check, that’s whats frustrating. His intuition is famously poor

[deep chasm]

He asks, thats not the same as actually considering if the dude is bad. He asks because hes grown up thinking theres no one on the throne, now he realizes there is one. That doesnt mean he isnt instantly just going along with it.

If the concept of equality in the world is based upon x, and x is a lie, you should at least consider that its a bad thing

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/nigerundayo-joseph-joestar-jojo-run-anime-gif-22126748

[cunning narwhal]

imo xebec should've told harald about the true nature of the wg at the very least. countless meetings yet it never occurred to him to tell harald about the ruler in the shadows in an effort to dissuade him from joining the wg

[latent hamlet]

And then ruin all his efforts

[deep chasm]

What did I say in that message that requires a readers knowledge?

[stone terrace]

Well yes

[sacred flume]

Even if you say they lied about it, Harald can see that even tho they lied about it they’ve kept their word and it’s been working out fine, seeing imu isn’t enough for Harald to call everything into question

[alpine trench]

Very interesting to see how the actual incident of Harald’s death takes shape, such a tragic character

[urban lodge]

Imu could have forced the mark onto him anyway

[latent hamlet]

Bro vented on 2 giants while screaming he cant turn back now

Plus Ida being sick probably didnt help him

[ashen perch]

oh yea, just saying that some of the more poorly cleaned panels are just unfinished too

[royal orchid]

Xebec to Harald like every other time: YOU ARE LETTING THEM FOOL YOU BROTHER, STOP BEING THEIR TOOL!

Harald:

[deep chasm]

Yes we do when hes had no conflictedness when it came to his troubles with WG. He was conflicted with things before this. Then he made a valient effort to give up his freedom to do the WGs work. He never shows concern that maybe what hes doing for WG is bad, or that theyre not thinking in elbafs best interest

[alpine trench]

Ida’s death got me emotional, another great emotional flashback moment

[stone terrace]

Harald almost sunk costed his nation into conscription

[alpine trench]

Yeah yeah I could see haha

[wet condor]

So you think it makes complete sense that Harald didn't think of any of this. Are you saying that you would've done the same thing in his position? That you wouldn't start asking questions?

"There is a man on the Empty Throne. throne that is supposed to be a symbol that no man should have complete control or supreme rule over all other nations. A symbol of fairness and equality amongst different people. That seems contradictory, but there's nothing potentially sinister about this at all."

Would you be thinking this?

[latent hamlet]

Rocks probably never brought up imu he's just like
"Nah man the government is craaaazy"

[wet condor]

Would you not inquire further about this?

[royal orchid]

Rocks wouldn't imagine in a million years that harald would be meeting imu

[cunning narwhal]

and it sounds stupid to harald cause he sees the wg as more legitimate than it turns out to be. they never had elbaf's best interests at heart like he thought they would

[alpine trench]

Though I can’t wait for the raws this week Arsal, it’s gonna be interesting to see how this chapter looks with crisp HQ lines even if incomplete

[bleak plover]

That's also a major factor. Ida was the spark that drove him towards redeeming Elbaf. Imagine seeing the life of the person who inspired you wither away as that goal seems to evade your grasp.

[wet condor]

The most egregious part is that we're not even seeing him show elevated levels of concern

[bleak plover]

Was the chapter a draft again?

[wet condor]

If he's having these thoughts, we're not seeing it

[deep chasm]

I think the part you guys are missing is that Harald doesnt question it. You guys are making this about actions. He can question some shit and still do the action

[sacred flume]

You know more about the wg’s doings than Harald, so thats where the skepticism forms from, hut clearly seeing imu isn’t enough for him to turn his back on his ideologies

[alpine trench]

A page or two were incomplete

[bleak plover]

Oh, I see.

[alpine trench]

Same as 1098

[deep chasm]

He could think to himself "man idk about this, they seem to not be great people" and still do it. Problem is he doesnt do that either

[latent hamlet]

Thats why Ida technically deserves blame cuz she convinced harald to do this

[alpine trench]

That chapter was far rougher than this one by the looks of it

[wet condor]

Like after his acolade, we can just have a seen of him sitting outside the chambers thinking this over

[deep chasm]

No its not. The basis of which harald should be questioning things is something we know hes aware of. The concept of equality in one piece rides on the idea that theres no true king. He knows this

[wet condor]

Thinking about everything Rocks, Jarul, what he saw they were doing to his allies

Just mulling it all over

[stone terrace]

Ida was ignorant to the evils of celestial dragons so i dont blame her for being the supportive wife

[deep chasm]

deadass, its that easy

and he can still do the same actions

[latent hamlet]

Oda is too lazy to draw harald doing a "let me think about this" panel of him brooding alone

[wet condor]

Yet the next couple of panels that we him rejoicing about this accomplishment. Not even reflecting on it

[pine ridge]

is it a coincidence that both unfinished chapters were about a character's life falling apart in front of their eyes

[sacred flume]

Yes but again you’re forgetting that everything he’s done has been working Harald got mostly what he wanted in fact he got more out of it than the wg did

[fiery steeple]

you blame him? manga been running since 1997

[stone terrace]

Harald being killed is a good thing. Even if he is well intentioned hes too easy to manipulate

Laud loki as a hero

[wet condor]

I don't think Harald deserved to die lol

[deep chasm]

That has nothing to do with what Im saying. If you are aware that the world functions on having no king. Then you find out there is a king whos been hiding his existence. You should consider this may be a bad thing. He can still decide to go through with the plans. The issue Im explaining is harald never expresses any issues with anything regarding the WG

[stone terrace]

I do. Its the same principle as putting your hand in a lions cage

[latent hamlet]

I do find it funny how the wg is so mad about harald

And its cuz they were denied the army, cuz harald allowed himself to be killed

[wet condor]

He did some good things. But people like him just shouldn't be rulers lol

[ashen perch]

Oda's romanizations aren't necessarily perfect tbf, his English is decent but not like great. Sandman presenting it as a failure of Viz is odd though when he could've focused on Oda there lol

[stone terrace]

You can only blame yourself at some point

[tough igloo]

damn if only someone had warned Harald about this … maybe it would’ve changed things… oh wait

[wet condor]

His desperation lead him to this

[dull zenith]

What would Harald expressing any concern change exactly

Like arguably that’d just make him look even worse

[deep chasm]

I didnt say anything about it changing anything. The problem is too many people like to act like it makes sense that he doidnt express concern

[deep chasm]

gang. He can express concern is his head you know

[fiery steeple]

he was a terrorist

[pine ridge]

both of them became imu's slaves in the end and were only freed through death

[ashen perch]

Xebec also wanted to only harness Harald and Elbaf's Military Force, and called them soldiers

[deep chasm]

The issue Im explaining is how gullible and naive he is. He doesnt have to change his actions, but the fact that he never even thought to himself that there may be bad things going on is embarassing

[wet condor]

A good-natured guy. He was overall well-intentioned and wouldn't want him to die or suffer for it. But yeah, you can't have guys like him leading people lol. Just too naive and he was too desparate

[rich hornet]

Harald is a tragic character. He felt forced to make a bad choice. I don’t see why we should pretend it was the good choice from his perspective, or even the only way

[deep chasm]

if you dont disagree with that, then theres no argument

[bleak plover]

Ah, yes, the world's worst criminal whose actions already jeopardized his first attempt at building rapport at the Reverie.

[wet condor]

It is lol

[ashen perch]

he was nice enough to skip the slaves part I guess, but its deeply ironic coming from him

[stone terrace]

Was honest about it and never forced it

[tough igloo]

true , Rocks at least did it saving his family .. Harald did it on his own accord because of what he believed in

[royal orchid]

https://fixupx.com/mussi3x/status/1991213280749093244?t=6XGPEnlgXMl8pkMHDXlQaQ&s=19

mussie (@mussi3x)

LMAO WHAT IS THIS😭😭

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FixupX · Nov 19, 2025, 6:33 PM

[ashen perch]

well he couldnt have forced it

[dull zenith]

Why would it not? Up to this point the Giants and Elbaph were all getting their image improved. He had no reason to go against the plan, things were literally improving for the Giants.

[wet condor]

Xebec genuinely liked Harald

[latent hamlet]

The thing is rocks never offered any alternative to harald's goal

[pine ridge]

harald did it to save elbaf

[wet condor]

And he respected his ideals lol

[deep chasm]

Where did I say he should go against the plan

[bleak plover]

Using your people as an army v. Using your people as an army (pirates)

[latent hamlet]

At least with WG he can earn good-will back

Rocks?

[stone terrace]

Kidnap loki or ida ez lol

[latent hamlet]

Pft

[dull zenith]

I’m telling you why it would make sense for him to not be concerned.

[fiery steeple]

finally someone who isnt brainwashed

[sacred flume]

Harald never showed any real issues with the World Government, so finding out there’s a hidden king doesn’t contradict anything he believes. Knowing the world has no king isn’t the same as caring about it, and he never held ideals that would make this reveal a moral problem. A hidden king only matters if Harald opposed that idea to begin with (which he didn’t)

[tough igloo]

huh ?! Rocks didn’t jeopardize shit lmao he literally saved Harald there .. Harald was already getting set on fire and chased , you really think they wouldn’t notice a big ass ancient giant in mariejois cmon now.. that was just a dumb ass move by harald to think they wouldn’t notice anyway

[stone terrace]

He isnt even home 80% of the time

[dull zenith]

He’s been shown to be laser focused on his goal for the past 2 chapters

[ashen perch]

Harald opposed both Xebec and Imu's desire to use them as an army, he is clearly calling his son and Elder Jarul to kill him lol. I dont know what people are trying to prove with that panel.

[deep chasm]

No youre not. You can stick to a plan while being concerned in your own head that it may not be the right choice. Like we saw oden do

[wet condor]

Well, respected them enough that he wouldn't try to force him. Xebec but he wants Harald do to it with him willingly as basically brothers lol

[deep chasm]

Yes so much so that he became gullible and overly stupid

[bleak plover]

Please remind me why they were messing Harald up.

[urban lodge]

Rocks was not willing to force him but he sure was annoying as shit about it

[leaden yew]

https://x.com/gin_oji/status/1996762139961577644?t=nLM1C8O3pyip9h99vEjFrA&s=19

Gin Oji-san (@gin_oji)

X · Dec 5, 2025, 2:02 AM

[grand flower]

I think Harald being alarmed by the lie makes just as much sense as Harald not being alarmed because there’s a few steps between “there is someone on the empty throne” and “they must be evil”

Harald has not seen the worst of Marijoa that we have seen. Harald has seen the sham that Imu projects via the world government. Yes, it makes sense that Harald would question the integrity of the government because of that lie

I disagree that he should have, as in that’s the only thing that makes sense for him to do, because he’s seen in practice all the positives the WG has achieved, which gives the illusion that the integrity of the WG cant be denied

[deep chasm]

Yes it does. Because he believes like everyone else theres no king on the throne for the sake of keeping the world fair. If they are lying about that, its them lying about the world being fair. If he saw no issues with that, he is again overly gullible and stupid

[grand flower]

For your last question, it doesnr matter what I would be thinking

[leaden yew]

why is Kidd's awakened robot a potpurri of symbols 💀

[tough igloo]

please tell me that you don’t think that even if rocks wasn’t there that nobody would realize a ancient giant in a cloak walking around mariejois ..

[ashen perch]

Kuina/Zunesha

[dull zenith]

Once again, this is literally the reason why Harald is acting “gullible” towards the WG and why it makes sense.

[grand flower]

All that matters is, does it make sense that Harald would be thinking this with what Oda has portrayed him to know

[fiery steeple]

nah why did they add xbox logo

[alpine trench]

Oden and Harald have naïveté shown through different sides of the same prism, Oden’s deal with Kaido and Orochi he could’ve easy sidestepped on but then he did it anyway, Harald’s is to me far more egregious in that he’s perhaps purposefully convinced himself that this is going to do absolute good and nothing but good

[deep chasm]

No it doesnt. You can accept things are going well, and still think to yourself that some things dont seem right. Your "reasons" dont change the fact that hes overly gullible and stupid as a result

[deep chasm]

Yep

thats exactly it

[latent hamlet]

Remember
The first few pages was every1 praising giants. They wanted to get their goods, see giants, etc

Meanwhile with rocks
THE DREADED GIANT PIRATES HAVE TEAMED UP WITH THE ROCKS PIRATES. END OF THE WORLD

[rich hornet]

It takes some extreme willful ignorance from Harald to not be suspicious of the WG. He’s seen them engage in slavery, he knows about the GV genocide, those points are more than enough

[grand flower]

Exactly. People really fail to realize that the point of the WG is to project integrity, security and progress as smoke screens so people don’t end up discovering and rebelling against Imu

[deep chasm]

You could even argue harald's decision makes more sense than odens if you wanted. Issue is harald never even considered that this could be bad

Oden at least was aware his decision may be wrong, and reluctantly did things

[wet condor]

There is no introspection, yeah lol

Like it's embarrassing

[grand flower]

He doesn’t know about the native hunt iirc.

Harald has seen slavery within the WG, and he’s also seen people’s lives saved and secured by the WG

[alpine trench]

Oden’s last straw came when he came to know that Orochi had no intention of doing good by their words, and he took action subsequently and failed, Harald’s failure is his own doing because he blindly walked into a Faustian bargain with the enemy

[latent hamlet]

Oden needed a time travel to accomplish his goals

[wet condor]

I like harald and he's goodn-natured but I just can't defend it lol

[ashen perch]

Oden couldnt have sidestepped his deal with Kaido and Orochi though, remember the hostages. He was naive to trust them but they had him cornered anyways.

[grand flower]

Pretty much

[deep chasm]

Yea exactly

[grand flower]

I think you guys are too hung up on defending when all that matters for a story is understanding

[stone terrace]

Friendship ended with Rocks D. Xebec
Now Figarland Garling is my new best friend

[alpine trench]

Kaido as much says that they couldn’t have stood a chance if Oden took on them at that time, he wanted to save all the lives he could

[tough igloo]

this is basically how i feel about him too lol

[fallen meteor]

I think Harald was just desperate for it to work out
Even if he at some point thought it may be a trap he was willing to bet on it working
Very naive

[sacred flume]

Harald doesn’t need to view a hidden king as a threat because his loyalty wasn’t based on the belief that the system was perfectly fair, it was based on the fact that it worked thee revelation doesn’t contradict his ideals, so ignoring it doesn’t make him gulliblw

[deep chasm]

but he never thought it may be a trap

[alpine trench]

I’m saying Oden’s decision to hit back, even if late is admirable

[tough igloo]

i understand why but don’t agree with his decisions nor defend them

[grand flower]

Why would he?

[leaden yew]

not only that, but Imu has some real audacity. The way they behave screams of red flags

[alpine trench]

Harald has no chance of retaliation even

[pine ridge]

he's also seen every other wg ally doing fine. he didnt know imu had some special plans for elbaf. ofc he was stupid and fell to the sunk cost fallacy but it wasnt completely void of reason

[rich hornet]

How do you read the last convo between Rocks and Harald if he doesn’t know about the native hunting. What do you think Harald’s understanding was of the situation

[latent hamlet]

Even if he did
He'd ruin elbaf's reputation immediately

[ashen perch]

yeah, Kaido calls him soft for it, but it was the decent thing to do from Oden

[dull zenith]

And that leads to what I asked back, what would that change? What would Harald having a cloud bubble saying
“I got a bad feeling about those guys…” change exactly?
If at the end he’s still following through the plan, then he’s naive regardless.

[alpine trench]

It’s too late for Harald to do anything about it other than to prevent himself from doing shit

[grand flower]

What does Harald say in that convo that shows he knows?

[deep chasm]

Youre not addressing the point. If the world's equality is built on the concept there is no big king, then if theres a big king, you should consider that maybe this is a bad thing. He doesnt have to change his actions, he just at least needs to show hes not so damn gullible he doesnt even think for a second throughout everything hes done and seen "maybe this wont be the best move"

[fallen meteor]

Sure but you get what I was saying
If the thought popped up at some point it instantly died to the "this needs to work i need Elbaf joining the WG"

[alpine trench]

Yeah Oden doesn’t regret it, partly because of his samurai ethos and partly because of his own sense of atonement in doing the dancing in exchange of saving life

[rich hornet]

Read it for yourself real quick. He is aware something is going on. He’s not surprised about the killing, the only thing that shocks him is the possibility that it was a trap laid for rocks

[alpine trench]

Even then, the Giants reputation not allowing them to join the world government is a net negative to start with

[grand flower]

People forget that Oden used to attack civilians when he first went out to sea. Roger, a pirate, taught him to leave innocents out of it

So when Orochi and Kaido made a deal that would allow innocents to be saved, oden took it wholesale

[stone terrace]

Biggest difference for me is kaido invited himself into odens home

Harald invited the demons

[deep chasm]

And that leads me back to what I already told you. I dont care what it would change. Im not saying it would change anything. Im saying as a character with a brain he shouldve had that thought bubble.

Character A, considers that his choices in following this group may be wrong, but goes along with it anyway because hes considered all the factors and takes a gamble.

Character B, never even thinks maybe this is a bad move, and just excitedly goes along with everything.

character A is less embarassing of a character

[fallen meteor]

Its also interesting how he thinks Elbaf joining the WG means he can leave the crown and be free to sail with Ida

[grand flower]

Kaido doesnt just call oden soft

[alpine trench]

Harald just convincing himself the only way to safety is to join the WG is folly

[grand flower]

He says Roger and Whitebeard were like that too

“Mighty men, but soft in their way”

[grand flower]

That’s not what happened tho

[deep chasm]

But my point is Oda couldve portrayed that if he ever thought that. That would be an important thought to show the readers if he actually ever considered that

[sturdy steeple]

I do think one of the reasons Harald dropped his guard around WG because Imu for some reason decided not to grant him a batter mark from the start. Does it really make sense contextually? If Imu can control him via mark then he should've done it from the very beginning.

[grand flower]

We’ve seen three times now that Harald tried to foster diplomatic ties independently but people were too afraid of giants to accept

“We like you Harald, but we have people afraid of giants”

[alpine trench]

I know that’s what I was about to say as well

[grand flower]

Harald wanted to join the WG so people would look at giants as turned around

[fallen meteor]

https://fixupx.com/PokemanZ0N6/status/1996903691363013094?t=fblrsgEvRPc7EPPmMQcM0Q&s=33 the one piece base shop has some cool as fuck animations

Jason Klum (@PokemanZ0N6)

Transition from Ace to Sabo is criminal

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FixupX · Dec 5, 2025, 11:25 AM

[grand flower]

The protecting Elbaph thing was just giving Elbaph a way to thrive with the world instead of having to plunder it to survive

[ashen perch]

the WG was actively interfering in his efforts too

[grand flower]

But Harald wanted to join the WG for the sake of others

[alpine trench]

It’s a reputation thing yeah but also the fact that he didn’t want giants to be persecuted as a result of that impression the world had on them too

[ashen perch]

he had to join up with them, it was his only way forward

[grand flower]

Haralds whole MO was “we can make this world a better place thru unity” and like Arsal said, the WG was pushing it so that Harald would need them

[fallen meteor]

Yeah Oda should have portrayed more of Harald thinking about this whole thing
He seems very determined that it will all work out at the end

[dull zenith]

And that leads to what I said again. Him being naive is fine, especially when everything was going towards his favor even as he got close to the 5 elders.

character A is less embarrassing of a character
Barely lol

[grand flower]

They kept making it hard for trust in giants to form

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/dis-belief-surprised-oh-gif-10085527

[alpine trench]

This is most likely as a result of postpartum depression

[grand flower]

So Haralds only option was joining them as a symbol that giants can be part of the world

[bleak plover]

Dude, pardon my French, but what the fuck did you post?

[alpine trench]

Also why would you post that here

[latent hamlet]

Ultimately I feel like no matter how harald could be sus of imu and wg

There's literally no other option

[grand flower]

Btw the people who say Harald should have given up on that mission when the people were too afraid to join are nuts

[alpine trench]

Not everything is analogous to OP lol

[royal orchid]

ok yeah

[leaden yew]

I would've understood if Harald genuinely got old and senile. But he seemed to be at his peak when he went through this. Not quite convincing imo

[latent hamlet]

"Harald should have stopped"

Every1: SEE THE GIANTS ARE EVIL. WG WE REQUEST BUSTER CALL

[fallen meteor]

This is a thing that can happen
I forgot the name but right after giving birth there's a chance the mother gets very antagonistic vs the baby
Its like an actual thing

[deep chasm]

I think its not fine. Because hes oddly stupid. To the point it seems weird even with the context of the story that someone would be that gullible and stupid to not ever think about any consequences of his actions, or that WG may not be perfectly good people.

Im saying hes overly gullible and stupid. If you agree, then we shouldnt be arguing

[fallen meteor]

Oh you deleted it

[grand flower]

I think it’s crazy that people think Harald should have just given up on trying to achieve peace and a better world

[dull zenith]

Gonna tore a hole on my brother’s body as a One Piece reference

[grand flower]

Imagine if we just stopped giving a fuck about making the world better csuse it got hard

[rich hornet]

I think for me I would have liked to see more of the WG actively foiling Harald’s peace plans behind the scenes so that he legitimately had no choice but to work with the WG

[stone terrace]

Meh

Its just how hes written

He HAD choices

But he tunnel visioned into that one

[grand flower]

Tbh we’ve seen enough from the WG to know how they get down doing thus stuff

[dark nymph]

Harald SUCKS

[sacred flume]

I did it address that it

You’re assuming Harald should automatically view a hidden king as “bad” but that only makes sense if the system wasn’t already working for him and everyone else from haralds perspective, everything he’s done has been successful under the current structure so even the reveal of a king doesn’t give him any concrete reason to all of a sudden assume malicious intent. If the world has functioned the way he expected, the existence of a king doesn’t automatically equal bad things.

And again, by the time this reveal even happens, it’s was already too late for him to rethink anything. He’s already committed,

[grand flower]

We see twice at least they had Morgans post propaganda

[sturdy steeple]

I dunno, I think it was pretty clear how WG fucked him over.

[olive sigil]

Yeah some moms reject the baby at first. I’ve seen it being the case with fathers and grandmothers as well

[grand flower]

Articles calling Harald “insane” for instance

[dull zenith]

We diverge because you think he has no reason to act so and I do, but at this point I think we’ll never agree on that and that’s fine.

[rich hornet]

That was after Harald had made his choice

[wet condor]

I mean, it'll get political, but most heads of state, don't orient their politics around making the world a better place — if any. They make efforts towards the aggrandizement and prosperity of their people and that, at times, leads to the betterment of other people as well. Mutually beneficial, but not necessarily because that's what was intended

[rich hornet]

Well after

[sturdy steeple]

His only other option for Elbaf to thrive was to pillage other nations like in the past. And that's something he wanted to never return to.

It's a messed up situation, really.

[grand flower]

Yeah and the planet is fucked because of it

[ashen perch]

they mentioned that he had finally shown his true colors after feigning innocence when he sank a WG ship that was hurting an Elbaf ally for not paying the tribute in time

[grand flower]

Clearly what world leaders have been doint irl hasn’t worked

[stone terrace]

Like harald just erased this from his mind

[grand flower]

They fucked it up

[stone terrace]

This is not one rogue agent

This is the government

[latent hamlet]

Way I see it
Theoretically harald could have tried to avoid the wg but continue peace work on his own
But his efforts would probably be slowed down a lot, and the wg may interfere a LOT more

[ashen perch]

no he didnt erase it at all

[stone terrace]

He definitely did

[latent hamlet]

And the public trusts the WG

[grand flower]

Why would I endorse that by saying “yeah man Harald should have been selfish and said fuck the rest of the world, works great for USA”

[ashen perch]

this actually made him realize that he had no other choice

[stone terrace]

Didnt even consider it moving forward

[deep chasm]

We're making excuses for dumb shit for no reason. I already explained it so Im not gonna keep repeating the same point. Your logic for this just doesnt make sense. A person with a brain considers maybe this isnt right. Previous things youve done being succesful doesnt change the next thing cant be a bad move. It also doesnt change that maybe everything up to now has just been the organization playing you.

There is never a "too late" to have a thought in your head. Oda couldve easily written him considering this may be a bad move, but deciding to do it anywya. Instead he showed that harald is just such a dumbass he didnt even consider it

[grand flower]

We see him trying that!

It didn’t work!

[olive sigil]

But he sees the evil of the giants as worse than the evil he’s seen from the wg

[sturdy steeple]

It's no "other choice" is what matters. He knows who WG are, lol.

[grand flower]

And we know the WG were actively working to make sure it wouldn’t work

[ashen perch]

defiantly, he said there that there's no way the WG can be making all the rules of the World lol

but they do

[pine ridge]

yeah he did this and everything got worse so he tried doing the opposite which made things better

[ashen perch]

thats what he realized

[stone terrace]

Well thats just self hatred nonsense on his part then

[olive sigil]

Please keep the USA comment to yourself. This is not the place

[grand flower]

People keep saying this in reference to the worst sides of the WG and it’s shortsighted because

1. Harald has also seen the good of it

2. Harald used to be a scumbag himself!

[deep chasm]

I told you Im not talking about actions. Im talking about having a normal human thought in your head. Which he doesnt ever have. Youre trying to make this about "what does it change" when my point was never about what it would change

[grand flower]

It makes no sense to expect Harald to turn from the WG becausw they have horrible aspects to it

[olive sigil]

I think that’s the case. The guy hates his past and wants to repent no matter the cost

[wet condor]

But even within your framework, Harald not joining the WG doesn't mean he'd only be acting in the interest of Elbaph

[grand flower]

Harald was once the most horrible person in the world

[deep chasm]

man maybe this guys superiors will be pure people!

[grand flower]

Working independently from the WG was not working

[sturdy steeple]

I think if we want to hold Harald guilty for his cooperation then we should also start by directing this anger towards every 50 nations that are present in WG. Even Dressrosa, FMI and Alabasta.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense.

[tough igloo]

Harald seemingly erased a lot of crucial info from his mind to get to the point he is now lol

[wet condor]

Well some people do lol

[grand flower]

Really good point

[stone terrace]

We're shown straight up multiple alliances forged by harald

Just because some refused him doesnt mean everyone did

[grand flower]

It’s just baffling to me people think Harald would only consider the evil sides of the WG and ignore the good sides just because that’s what they like to do when reading the sto-OHHHHH

[upbeat yarrow]

its been a while since i saw a laww discussion, nature ia healing

[rich hornet]

I don’t understand where he hit a wall with this path. He fostered a ton of good will in his life

[stone terrace]

Wanting to be liked by everyone is not only unnecessary but unfeasible. But if he worked towards it instead of rushing he couldve slowly turned it around

[grand flower]

Harald is fundamentally progress minded

[sturdy steeple]

I mean, again

[grand flower]

It’s not about being friends with everyone

It’s about “we can do more”

[sturdy steeple]

I think the flashback does a good job at showing his desperation because his nation suffers in real time.

[grand flower]

He’s basically cut from the same cloth as captain America

[rich hornet]

Then his ambition is another of his flaws

[grand flower]

Again, Haralds framework all comes from him once being a complete scumbag

[sturdy steeple]

He lived for over 100 years. I don't know about their time perception but that's a long ass time.

[grand flower]

His lived experience is a complete 180

He’s not the type of man to settle for “enough”

[alpine trench]

Captain America is a pragmatist and a realist

[frozen aspen]

captain america is mid thiugh

[sturdy steeple]

Yeah, and he started as a vile person.

[grand flower]

There’s always gonna be “we can do better”

[alpine trench]

He’s very aware of the world he has been transported to

[grand flower]

A man like Harald is always going to think “we can do more” because that saved his life

[alpine trench]

And fights the authority that he served

[latent hamlet]

Harald can literally live through generations of families developing fear and hatred of giants

Thats...kinda rough

[sturdy steeple]

Yep.

[ashen perch]

His alliances with unaffiliated nations were nice for a bit, but the WG attacked one of the same unaffiliated nations that were an ally of Elbaf and showed him that they are the ones who run the world and decide who gets to have rights. They actively defamed him and interfered with the image change he was trying to do for himself and Elbaf. This in turn just convinced him more that the only path forward was joining up with the WG, if he wanted his nation to be respected.

[wet condor]

I caution framing it this way because it can make it seem like he's vane. I don't think vanity motivated any of his actions. But I agree, having good relations with everyone isn't realistic goal. And if I was a head of state, it wouldn't be the doctrine that I'd be orienting my foriegn policy around

[grand flower]

Hm. Funnily enough, Harald is going thru the same character arc MCU cap did with winter soldier and civil war

[random hinge]

i'm still mad about how nusjuro looks here

i hope the officials look better than this

[grand flower]

He’s got Kaido’s nose

[ashen perch]

Oda is Olda

[rich hornet]

I think this is the correct take

[frozen aspen]

ugly and bald?

[ashen perch]

its just an unfinished chapter, unfortunately

[bleak plover]

Thanks for reading, fren.

[muted hedge]

Shanks sure skipped a bullet by not showing up

[tranquil blade]

I mean the chapter is unfinished so it probably wont look much better in official

The viz scans are okay but they're arguably not even the best ones you can find

[frozen aspen]

shanks never imtended to stick aroumd anyways

he is not stupid

[stone terrace]

So you would say harald is ok with turning his back on people who came to his aid?

[muted hedge]

i really do wonder what Shanks last mission was though

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/yikes-jayz-awkward-gif-3574158

[wet condor]

Veering off topic but I wish we saw Harald fight more

[frozen aspen]

Kidnapping ginny

[wet condor]

Like I want to see guys like him fight man lol

[stone terrace]

Meh he seems very simple

[muted hedge]

i feel like that's going to be Sommers

[wet condor]

Wish he had more problems where swinging a sword was the correct answer

[upbeat yarrow]

no no you dont get it, it REALLY is sending shivers down his spine

[stone terrace]

Big ass strong ass dude with haki and a sword lol

[frozen aspen]

true it could have just been sommers

[ashen perch]

thats not what he is doing though, he even tells Xebec that his aim is for everyone to be equals. He won't stand for any sort of inequality that the WG tries to impose

[rich hornet]

He wasn’t willing to stick with his unaffiliated allies at the expense of his global image

[muted hedge]

Sommers is already made to be hated, so I think it's the most safe option to put into the scenario

[stone terrace]

I think that last line is absolutely bonkers

At least if he thought he had any chance of doing that

[ashen perch]

he literally said it

[wet condor]

True, but I just like seeing strong fellas tear shit up. It almost feels like a waste to have a guy like him and not really get to see him throwdown lol. One of the strongest men that we've ever seen and we never really get to see him cut loose really

[ashen perch]

it is what he believed lol

[solemn reef]

Who we talking about

[wet condor]

Harald lol

[ashen perch]

also, I think a respected, affiliated Elbaf will be able to help those nations too. He sees that as a net positive at the end of the day.

[solemn reef]

He did fight with rocks at one point

[muted hedge]

it's pretty sad that Xebec told Harald exactly what would happen, and those exact things happened

[wet condor]

Yeah, but that was it. And it was only so long

[muted hedge]

i know why Harald didn't listen, but i wonder how it would've been if he listened to Xebec

[stone terrace]

He'd be here to defend his country against "sommers"

[muted hedge]

maybe, lol

[stone terrace]

Granted if mu showed up anyway mightve been fucked lol

But hey luffy is here

[muted hedge]

by the way i feel like Shanks will tag in with the Harald incident

there's no way that Loki can take down an immortal Harald who rivaled Xebec before all of this

[dull zenith]

The country would have probably died long before Luffy even got there

[muted hedge]

i feel like it's damn near impossible

[stone terrace]

? Theyve been fine until now

[ashen perch]

they attack Marie Geoise together and get wiped out, I guess

[solemn reef]

Or what if Shanks killed Harald and that’s why Loki hates him

?

Cuz why does Loki hate Shanks

Or maybe it’s just him being chained

[dull zenith]

Because Harald affiliated himself with the government, yeah.

[pine ridge]

shanks is the one that caught him

[cold steppe]

Imagine shanks knows what's happening but he still blames it on loki

[trim lily]

cause shanks beat him up and let him get chained

[muted hedge]

it's pretty clear that Loki hates Shanks for capturing him

[solemn reef]

Yh

[muted hedge]

but i wouldn't put it against Oda to have Shanks show up and aid Loki with defeating Harald

[urban lodge]

Pretty sure we know that Gaban and Shanks only arrive after the incident

[ashen perch]

we do

[muted hedge]

Shanks must be that close to the incident for a reason, i feel

[solemn reef]

Possibly

[tough igloo]

they didn’t say they arrived after , Gaban said they were there and arrived but just didn’t see the whole thing

[stone terrace]

The government doesnt have anything to do with it. Jarul has been running the show without their influence. Even if harald didnt partner with them at first, theyd just be continuing on because the world government wouldnt be hasty to make a move

[ashen perch]

Gaban said they didnt see the whole thing, and the whole flashback is happening because no one knows why Loki killed Harald aside from Loki himself

[stone terrace]

Especially when known monster harald is there to squash any feeble attempts

[frozen aspen]

bc of harald's "fumble" probably related to the castle incident

[stone terrace]

The fumble is him dying

He was supposed to turn them into warriors

[frozen aspen]

yeah probably

[ashen perch]

its pretty clear that he wants to be killed

[tough igloo]

and Loki also doesn’t hate Shanks from what we know

we know he jokingly called shanks a coward to get luffy attention but that’s it

[solemn reef]

I just don’t understand domi reverse and the condition behind it

Why did Imu not use his book for rocks

[stone terrace]

Luckily its just a grimoire and not the death note

[wet condor]

Book?

[tough igloo]

the one gunko imu has

[wet condor]

Oh

[solemn reef]

Bruh

[frozen aspen]

I give up

[solemn reef]

No don’t

[frozen aspen]

I'm gonna leave

[solemn reef]

I believe in u

[vale heath]

I ungive up

I take down

[upbeat yarrow]

probably cause the gorosei members have a stronger connection/have deep deep contract, so they can use domi reversi without the book

[frozen aspen]

just made the same mistake for the third time in arow

[solemn reef]

Nah

That makes no sense

[frozen aspen]

whatever see u in two weeks

[olive sigil]

Imu has a book about rocks?

[bleak plover]

Is that from hthe illegal chapter?

[upbeat yarrow]

why not

[solemn reef]

[wraith mantle]

Shanks’ last mission

[bleak plover]

Golshi spotted in the wild.

[dull zenith]

If Harald didn’t affiliate himself with the government then Elbaf’s image around the world would still be of a violent kingdom that offers nothing to the world except terror on random kingdoms, so the WG going there to “pacify” the island would be more much easier to fabricate consent on.

Him going affiliating himself with the Government improved the giants’ image on the world stage so much so that people stopped seeing the place as just a violent ghetto, so invading would just objectively look bad for the government. And they already have Giants on their side, anyway.

[tough igloo]

Shanks also waited til all the rocks pirates were gone to start making his move … what’s his gripe with the rocks pirates 🥹😂

[dull zenith]

The WG still cares about their public image

[wraith mantle]

He a bitch that’s why

[tough igloo]

and now Shanks is actively trying to find Rocks son lol what did that rocks crew do to you shanks lol

[stone terrace]

Theyve been doing this for a millennium. Why are you assuming they would just invade on a whim? We can see that its happening today because the world government has been pushed to a breaking point with the awakening of nika amongst other instabilities.

[rich hornet]

The WG erased a kingdom that very publicly was recorded to have revolted. I don’t think they care

[tawny panther]

he blames them for destroying his hometown lol

[grand flower]

You know, between Garp and Harald

I’m really interested to see how the “oh the WG is making your goal hard? You should just give up” crowd are gonna handle the Revos part of the story

[stone terrace]

But otherwise elbaf is just another country like wano that they just leave alone because its not worth the trouble

[dull zenith]

One is a country just famous for being isolated
The other is famous for literally going around and destroying kingdoms

[pine ridge]

which leaves them susceptible to famines for example

[latent hamlet]

"Just be like the revs"
Meanwhile the revs:

Harald and Garp should join dragon in looking east

[stone terrace]

Which their numerous allies are prepared to assist them with

[dull zenith]

Like I said, it’s not on a whim. They literally just create consent out of the country’s actions.

[tawny panther]

I wonder if Harald would’ve changed his mind about all this WG stuff if he was born in the right era and met Luffy as Nika

[latent hamlet]

WG: dont help elbaf
All those nations: oh um...sorry

[dull zenith]

yeah, and that kingdom was erased from history and never mentioned again lol

[grand flower]

Lmaooo

[rich hornet]

The point is they don’t care about being liked. They simply demand compliance

[grand flower]

OP fans getting 1200 chapters in to advocate for

checks notes

Giving up on difficult goals and helping only as many people as is convenient for you

Sensational

[dull zenith]

publicly have to care because otherwise they wouldn’t have so many people working under them

Their real intentions are not quite there but they still need to have a friendly public face

[grand flower]

The WG doesnr care about their public image

That’s why they have all that ceremony about an empty throne

[rich hornet]

I don’t think they have to

[sacred flume]

Nah it seems that not only are you wrong but close minded as well

[grand flower]

They do becausw if they don’t, the world will rebel

[solemn reef]

Why hasent the world questioned the age of the gorosei

[grand flower]

Most people haven’t seen em

[rich hornet]

And they will squash it with super nukes

Until the revos win

[grand flower]

And rule over what

[pine ridge]

giants live for hundreds of years. they could just be similar

[dull zenith]

I mean, the throne being empty is what proves they care about the image, no? Like otherwise Imu would just be known across the world as the supreme ruler

[grand flower]

Yeah I was being sarcastic

That’s what I was getting at too

[dull zenith]

Oh lol

[solemn reef]

Yh but their not giants

[rich hornet]

Mariejois. We know from the VC and now Lulusia they don’t care about destroying the world to hold on to the right to rule the ashes

[pine ridge]

but why would a long lifespan be exclusive to the giants

[royal orchid]

what's another 800 years? I could always start again! Drown another planet!

[lofty fern]

Its also an interesting study on why it's better to rule people by making them think they are the ones in charge, rather than being an all powerful dictator just out there for everyone to hate

[pine ridge]

who's gonna be feeding them

[rich hornet]

Better hope Aramaki survives lol

[grand flower]

I don’t think they’re the ones who did that

[lofty fern]

How did you like the chapter Shur? Also, you're speaking french now?

[stone terrace]

Its funny because the plan really is to drown the planet