also-manga

[fringe ice]

Otherwise you wouldn't say that

His strength means nothing in this case

[grand flower]

Roger had even MORE capability than Garp because he had access to the one piece and he knew the true history

[sand plinth]

1. roger doesnt claim to be morally righteous
2. he turns himself in to be executed to set up the next generation to find the one piece, presumably to defeat imu?

[grand flower]

So it’s okay for Roger to set up the next generation

But you criticize Garp who’s setting up the next generation of Navy to rebel

And who has also been saving lives the entire time to boot

I have a feeling you’re gonna ignore these facts again

[fringe ice]

No kidding

[sand plinth]

presumably whatever roger discovered on laughtale lead him to believe that the best course of action was to enable the next joyboy to defeat the world government (ie. roger couldnt use the one piece, and there is nothing left within his control)

if garp tried to do something about the government, then discovered there was something more complicated going on and he would need to inspire the next generation in order to succeed, then yeah thats fine with me thats what i said at the start

[fringe ice]

What does half that message even mean

[sand plinth]

if superman was in nazi germany and he just ran around saving cats from trees instead of fighting hitler thats kinda shitty, even tho he is doing something objectively good

garp is sticking his head in the sand

oh sengoku ordered the deaths of children, i guess ill just save a few randos on this island in between naps

[alpine trench]

[grand flower]

That’s already what he’s doing

[sand plinth]

oh, ohara got wiped of the map for no good reason? ill tip my bartender a little more for this pina colada

[alpine trench]

I’m crying dawg

[fringe ice]

So here's what you're not getting, Superman would actually be capable of punching Hitler out of office, Garp can't and would be stopped and jailed for life for conspiring against the WG without making any long-term changes

[grand flower]

We know he’s doing this

I outlined how he’s doing this

All I’ve been explaining is how he’s been doing that and I posted panels!

[sand plinth]

garp literally punches imu in the face

[fringe ice]

Before he knows what's going on

[sage temple]

Strange sentence to walk in to

[grand flower]

https://tenor.com/view/what-wtf-eyes-look-phone-gif-3927559383930151204

[sand plinth]

and prompty forgets about it and goes about the rest of his life working in the marines

[grand flower]

I can’t believe this

[fringe ice]

Christ

[grand flower]

Doint what?

[sand plinth]

like bro is willing to fight imu on god valley, so he isnt worried about losing a fight, and then proceeds to do NOTHING

[fringe ice]

He doesn't forget it, he works around it. Because he alone, as he witnessed, cannot take him out

So your solution would be Garp should waltz into Mariejois and punch everybody out?

[sand plinth]

he should do what dragon does imo

except he would be much more effective because he is much stronger and has more connections and influence

(at the time)

[sage temple]

https://tenor.com/view/man-slaps-everyone-gif-24158547

[fringe ice]

Garp is saving lives and also raising marines to do the same while avoiding serving the CDs

[alpine trench]

Dragon didn’t declare direct war until many years of founding the revolutionary army

[fringe ice]

"He is stronger" again doesn't mean anything when you're trying to take down unbeatable satan

[fervent fable]

https://tenor.com/view/roger-gol-d-roger-king-of-pirates-laughing-one-piece-gif-26533390

[sand plinth]

i mean im surprised he didnt, seems like he would love to
i feel like there HAS to be a puzzle piece missing

[sage temple]

Tragic

[sage temple]

I wonder what the puzzle piece is

[fringe ice]

He didn't because he processed the situation

[sand plinth]

his response to roger isnt "oh we cant take on the government" its "who is going to protect the marines"

[fringe ice]

How does one read GV and not conclude Garp is a goat

[sage temple]

So Garp + Puzzle Piece > imu?

[fringe ice]

That is also correct

[sand plinth]

garp never lacks confidence in himself, he is just a marine glazer to the point of ignoring all the evil around him

[fringe ice]

We see that he does in fact not ignore evil

Only the ones he actually can't directly change with his fists

[sand plinth]

aokiji makes more sense to me, he wanted to become fleet admiral because anything below that doesnt really change anything

and when he didnt get the position he left the marines

garp has helped a few dozen marines at most

who, combined, are still less useful than himself at 1000 years old

[fringe ice]

I always felt that Kuzan left because he disagreed with Akainu's brand of justice so he refused to work under him as well

Ohara for instance

Kuzan secretly saves Saul and Robin, Akainu blows up an evacuation civilian ship. I would quit too if I had to take orders from that animal

[sand plinth]

i dont think he agreed with any of ohara, but he couldnt do anything at that point in time other than save nico robin and not completely kill saul

[azure wasp]

You cannot avoid serving CDs as a marine. Garp can only do it because he's strong enough to disobey orders

[sand plinth]

he is what you think garp is

[azure wasp]

No regular marine can avoid serving CDs if order comes from higher ranks

[fringe ice]

So he avoided serving CDs that's what I'm saying

[sand plinth]

even ignoring the CDs, hes buddy buddy with sengoku after all the stuff he knows sengoku has ordered

[azure wasp]

Garp himself? yes

Others? No

[fringe ice]

I'm not talking about others

[sand plinth]

hes also actively against opposing the government, hes mad that dragon is a revolutionary

[azure wasp]

If a marine gets assigned to protect CDs they have no choice but to comply

[sand plinth]

garp NEEDS a better motivation for staying in the marines

after everything he has seen

[fervent fable]

Can celestial dragons make marines their slaves?

[fringe ice]

Because he's proud of the marines as the organization he has always known. They save thousands, millions, and in an era of incredibly active piracy are the only protectors of the common people. You can't just condemn the entire force like it's garbage and beyond saving

[azure wasp]

Technically if they want to, but the elders won't allow that.

[fervent fable]

Maybe they can execute them

[ornate tartan]

why would they make their foot soldiers their slaves

[azure wasp]

More likely imprisoned but ya

[glass plume]

they can make anyone their slaves by their rue

[azure wasp]

If people like gerling has authority to execute other CDs he probably has authority to kill anyone

[glass plume]

if a Celestial Dragon sees someone who they appreciate in a way, they can make them their slave, and if they don't obey such command they'll just send down an admiral to take care of them

[sand plinth]

dude idk what to tell you, the marines are evil
yeah, they save the people they are allowed to save and the genocide the people they feel like genociding and garp is just a willing cog in the system

[fringe ice]

Admirals are miserable

[glass plume]

especially now as an gorosei

[azure wasp]

Kuzan isn't innocent in ohara massacre

[sand plinth]

garp wasnt allowed to save any of the pregnant women or children who were suspected of being rogers, he has no power in the marines except what they let him have

[glass plume]

Garling can probably execute literally anyone except for Imu of course

and otehr gorosei

[azure wasp]

He can do anything he wishes now, except going against imu

[glass plume]

yeah

[sand plinth]

its like fujitora and the warlords, they disbanded the warlords not because fujitora convinced them but because they had the seraphim ready to go as a replacement

the marines as an organisation are a tool for evil and any good acts are a side effect

[fringe ice]

The marines aren't evil

This is a whole new debate but the story points this out

[azure wasp]

Well said

[ornate tartan]

evil is a stretch

i’d say morally grey(very morally grey)

[fringe ice]

It's a flawed system because of who's up top

[vale heath]

A Marine can be good.
The Marines as an organization are body guards for billionaires.

[sand plinth]

as an organisation they are evil, individual marines are free to do good within the confines of what is allowed

[azure wasp]

Worse then any bodygaurd

[vale heath]

Yeah so they aren't very good, are they?

[fringe ice]

That's a very biased point of view when they save many times more people than they have condemned

[azure wasp]

Finally someone who agrees with me

[fringe ice]

The evil is the celestial dragons

The ones forcing them to do evil things

[vale heath]

Corruption works top-down too

[sand plinth]

take sengoku, he is a relatively reasonable dude and he does some good

but he also orders the bombardment of ohara under wg orders, he orders the mass murder of pregnant women and children suspected of being rogers

[fervent fable]

One piece characters will literally tank meteor and will die by a gun shot

[fringe ice]

He didn't

[sand plinth]

if you tell me sengoku is a morally grey character sure
he does some good but the organisation he works for is evil and forces him to do evil things

[fringe ice]

Wasn't fleet admiral

[azure wasp]

Not just evil, it's the most evil and oppressive force on the planet

[fringe ice]

Again you're confusing the marines for the government

[vale heath]

Admittedly Oda's solution will inevitably be what Jozamu is suggesting, take out the celestial dragons and the marines are now fine.
Supported by all the kings we've put back on the throne. Oda is presenting the story such that the leader is the problem, and not the structure.

[sand plinth]

chapter 395 page 10

[fluid cedar]

Its not a fully evil organization they still do protect some areas from pirates

[azure wasp]

Marine is government public military force, you cannot separate them

[vale heath]

So the disconnect is from what will actually happen afterward. In fantasy, yeah the idea is they just stay good forever.

In actual systems, the monarchy 3 grandkids down will be just as tyrannical as the one deposed.

[sand plinth]

the organisation itself from the top is evil, the people within do what good they are allowed to
equally, they are only allwoed to protect world government sanctioned countries (at an extreme cost) and they actively genocide or enable the genocide of non member contries

[fringe ice]

What is this page supposed to show?

[sand plinth]

sengoku gave the golden transponder snail for the buster call on ohara

[azure wasp]

Then years later kuzan gave it to the son of the man responsible for pressing that golden button

[fringe ice]

I was arguing he didn't order the pregnant women part

[azure wasp]

Marines carried it out, he's responsible as the fleet admiral

[fringe ice]

He wasn't fleet admiral

[azure wasp]

He wasn't?

[glass plume]

i really wonder what Akainu would've done, if he had no strings attached

would he for example, go to Hachinosu and rescue the face of the Marines?

part of me thinks that he absolutely would've

[sand plinth]

alrigth fair enough

[fluid cedar]

He wouldn’t garps part of sword they’re essentially resigned marines

[glass plume]

yeah of course but Garp is still a major part of the face of Marines, which Akainu deeply cares about

Garp is the hero of the people who believe in the Marines

they see him as a symbol of hope

[sand plinth]

but still, sengoku did some horrible things in the name of the marines while being a "moral" person

[fluid cedar]

They’d lose more by going over to his territory

[azure wasp]

He still share the responsibility tho

[sand plinth]

100%

[frozen rover]

He is a slave of CD too dude

[glass plume]

depends how many Akainu are willing to bring i'd say

[azure wasp]

The children killed in ohara be no less either

[glass plume]

it could be a Marineford situation, but this time on Hachinosu

[frozen rover]

Only thing i liked bout him until now is he is not irresponsible atleast

[glass plume]

Akainu alone could probably lay waste to Hachinosu without much effort, considering his fruit is extremely hazardous

[sand plinth]

this conversation is basically about how if u stay with the marines after finding out about all the terrible shit they do and who they work for, it doesnt really matter how moral you are, the organisation itself is evil and staying with it is ignorant at best

[fluid cedar]

They never take more than 1 admiral and maybe 5-6 bum vide admirals that wouldn’t be enough other marines would probably be captured too

[glass plume]

but then that brings up Blackbeard and Kuzan, which would be the main players against his revolt

[azure wasp]

If marines were the good guy they wouldn't have "lets commit genocide" button at hands length

The existence of buster call protocol alone ends any argument

[fringe ice]

He was an Admiral the same year when fighting Shiki

Or rather, months after that order

[glass plume]

Akainu has won out against Kuzan once before, i wouldn't put it past him to do it again...
Blackbeard becomes the main issue considering that he has the devil fruit to nullify other devil fruits...

ideally Blackbeard wouldn't be there, when this revolt occured

[sand plinth]

i didnt think oda could be any more heavy handed than the fact that the marines actively help set up genocide every 3 years from the god valley flashback but i guess not everyone gets it

and NONE of them do anything or even seem to feel guilty except for dragon

[fringe ice]

Kuzan does

[azure wasp]

Didn't shiki fight happen when roger was captured? That mean it's before the order

[unique lagoon]

aint kumas df almost a perfect counter to magma
he would just repel it

[glass plume]

Kuma?

[frozen rover]

He is no different than a fisherman catching a fish after saying that i am vegan

[fluid cedar]

What does kuma have to do with this

[frozen rover]

His DF can repel anything not only magma

[sand plinth]

"the donquixote pirates arent evil, the protect the (non-toy) people of dressrossa 😄 😄 yeah they do some bad stuff sometimes 🙄 but they keep a bunch of other people safe!!"

[glass plume]

i mean we saw Kuma go against Akainu for a brief minute, i don't know if he really does have it in him

[azure wasp]

Because people is politically unaware in real world too.Those who confuse order and law with justice cannot understand it.

Just by having marines call themselves the justice fools half the fandom

[glass plume]

then again he was rushing towards Bonney

[azure wasp]

[frozen rover]

And how
By sucking them to their bones

[sand plinth]

what do you think about garp, what motivation would be not terrible for him to be simping for the marines this whole time after seeing god valley

[fringe ice]

24 years ago - shiki vs garp and sengoku
24 years ago - roger gives himself up
Rouge is pregnant 5 months before Roger's execution

[azure wasp]

I share very much same opinion as you. Garp himself is a decent person but by staying in the marines he's complicit in all thier crimes and only help strengthen WG oppression

[glass plume]

I really wonder if we'll see how this went down

[unique lagoon]

btw where do u guys read colored chapters again? the one i used gone now

[sand plinth]

i really cant resolve in my head any of garps character, he is really willing to fight and kill roger after god valley but will not even question the literal devil that controls the world

[glass plume]

it seems like the Revolutionaries managed to get away unscathed, just in time for Blackbeard to be distracted by CP0

[sand plinth]

like yeah train up the next gen to be more moral or whatever, but he actively hates pirates, even ones he knows are on the same page as him on most things

[frozen rover]

He didnt try to KILL roger he just wanted a fight with him
And they respect each other

[fringe ice]

No... That's a pretty presumptuous statement. It's just the ability to discern nuance in a story intentionally written so that neither pirates nor marines are morally black or white. I'm not a big fan of the marines myself but they're simply not an evil organization because they contribute to a lot of good and are a necessary existence, only they're corrupted by the true evil

[glass plume]

i use WeebCentral

[sand plinth]

the idea of marines is not an evil concept, but the actual organisation itself is evil

for there to be a reasonable necessary good organisation, it would need to be rebuilt

[fringe ice]

Pirates aren't good guys. Roger has killed people, 90% of pirates are pillagers and scum

[azure wasp]

A person real world politics very much reflects in how you see politics in one piece too.

The marines are necessary because WG deems it so to spread thier control. Marine cannot be good when they are by far biggest injustice in the world

[sand plinth]

pirates arent an organisation tho, they are all separate people with different ideals

[glass plume]

the Celestial Dragons are the root to all the evil

[unique lagoon]

ok thanks

[azure wasp]

You are the only person that i seen bring this up beside me. Love to talk more about this

[sand plinth]

"garp cant fight the wg, whats he gonna do punch them?"
"garp can totally fight all the pirates tho, some of them are evil"

[fringe ice]

Again you're erasing how much good they contribute and assign all the government's sins to them with no room for nuance

[fringe ice]

Are you seriously defending pirates?

[hasty sable]

I’d argue the Marines as a state army made to enforce the status quo and protect interests of the rich and powerful are evil as a concept

[sand plinth]

are you seriously defending the marines?

this guy has to be larping as akainu or something

[glass plume]

Garp believes in the idea of the Marines, not the execution of it.
That's why he strives to set a seed in the Marines which uphold the idea that they were made for.

[fringe ice]

Bruh

I'm not even a marine fan

[sand plinth]

let me remind you THE STRAW HATS ARE PIRATES

[azure wasp]

Thier "good deeds" are what WG allow them to do so because it benefits WG agenda.

[fringe ice]

The straw hats are the exception

An outlier

[hasty sable]

Roger was also a good person in the end despite being a pirate

[fringe ice]

Your views are biased

[sand plinth]

whitebeard did more good than the marines

net

last i checked he didnt go around sinking islands into the sea, which is funny because he is one of the few people who actually could have

meanwhile the world government every 3 years for who knows how long hunted and robbed countries for sport

thanks to the marines

[small ember]

Nah we’re gonna see a split in the marines sooner or later

[fringe ice]

Murdered people and stole as well, simply lived as a pirate like most. He's not evil but we're not gonna turn him into a saint

[small ember]

The good ones peel but the loyal ones stay

[azure wasp]

Marines protect those who are allied with WG and pay them taxes.

It's no different from what emperors like BM does.

[glass plume]

i hope that we do, i hope that we see Akainu really tugging at the strings which he is attached by and start to realize that he needs to do it without the World Government's pull

[hasty sable]

He doesn’t have to be a saint but Roger is fundamentally a good person who used his death to unleash an era of dreams that will save the world

[sand plinth]

i think kaido's might be the only pirate crew we have seen actively be more evil than the marines

[hasty sable]

Roger also didn’t harm civilians

[fringe ice]

Yes precisely the government has. It's forced people who joined the ranks to do good to commit terrible things in the name of "justice" and it's wrong but that's the interesting part about the morality of OP

[fringe ice]

Blackbeard is good now?

[glass plume]

Blackbeard, Big Mom and Kaido I'd say

[hasty sable]

They told Oden that Roger would kill him if he attacked civilians

[glass plume]

Big Mom technically enslaves people with her fruit

and Blackbeard enables the slave auctions

[glass plume]

by feeding the World Government

[azure wasp]

Whisky wolf bridge alone out does any evil by any pirate crew

[fringe ice]

Again the government

[azure wasp]

Same as Marines

[fringe ice]

Wrong

[unique lagoon]

ive noticed theres been a shit ton of morality piece debate lately
what happened

[azure wasp]

Marines is branch of WG military

[glass plume]

Xebec, Garp

[fringe ice]

Correct they don't call the shots

[sand plinth]

blackbeard has done some evil stuff as a guy, but his crew as a whole doesnt quite have the scale of evil compared to the navy so i give the edge to the marines

[azure wasp]

This is trying to separate a country army from its government

[fringe ice]

And doesn't have the scale of good by an even larger amount

[glass plume]

keep in mind that Devon was notorious for killing pretty ladies and decapitating them

[gloomy tree]

https://fixupx.com/pewpiece/status/1988572542542430678?s=19

Pew (@pewpiece)

One Piece animator Tatsuya Miki responded to some fans who claimed that his work on Nusjuro is Ai because of a mistake he made when drawing the fingers.
︀︀
︀︀"I only realized it after an overseas fan pointed it out. I drew the wrong number of fingers, and I’m really sorry. I didn’t use AI at all it’s entirely my own drawing."

**💬 53 🔁 54 ❤️ 881 👁️ 22.2K **

FixupX · Nov 12, 2025, 11:40 AM

[glass plume]

Shiryu was a corrupt prison officer whom killed for the sake of his own blood lust

[grand flower]

You skipped Dressrosa?

[glass plume]

Vasco Shot, well... He was-

[sand plinth]

like betraying ur comrades and whatever is bad, killing ppl for their fruit is bad, but hes not enslaving/genociding whole countries

not defending him but the wg is on a diff scale

[grand flower]

WCI?

[small ember]

Yeah I could see Akainu spazzing out and taking the hardliners with him. Kind of like Z’s super extreme faction

[grand flower]

Blackbeard is a slaver

[glass plume]

the only one who really was justifiable in the BBp is Kuzan

[sand plinth]

so are the marines

[glass plume]

Pizarro was a corrupt king iirc

[azure wasp]

Those who commit the crimes is as responsible as those who order.

I was following oder wasn't accepted in nazi trials for a reason

[hasty sable]

The Marines as protectors of the people and common good is the lie the government is selling you. Maybe the idea of the Marines as a purely protective force exists in possibility (arguably) but it’s not the faction that exists in the story. They are a state police force that aids in genocide, puts down revolutions, and is compliant with slavery and exploitation.

[glass plume]

yeah, exactly

[grand flower]

Yeah they’re all bad

Difference is Navy will atone

[ornate tartan]

bro did u just say the navy is more evil then BB crew..😭

[sand plinth]

when i see blackbeard wipe a country of the face of the map (he might i wouldnt put it past him atp) then yeah they are equally bad

[glass plume]

the Celestial Dragons are what you should say could be more evil than any pirate crew

but the Marines isn't

[grand flower]

Mind you the Marines are endorsed by the Revos

[hasty sable]

The Marines on the whole do more collective harm than the BB Pirates

[fringe ice]

You're just gonna keep ignoringwhat I'm trynna point out but I'm not interested in that flat argument so Imma drop it here

[glass plume]

so is the World Government funny enough, Dragon's foremost goal is the Celestial Dragons need to get off their high seat

[stone terrace]

My favorite thing about the marines is how we consistently see them do more atrocities than actually saving people

[ornate tartan]

yeah bro how many times has this been reiterated, by Ivankov, by Vegapunk, even recently by King Harald

[fringe ice]

"all marines are evil" is plain wrong and argue with Oda is the verdict

[stone terrace]

[stone terrace]

All cops are bad

[hasty sable]

All Marines don’t have to be evil for the Marines being an evil organization to be true

[azure wasp]

Whats stopping "good marine" from doing what dragon did?

Why do they obey thise orders?

[ornate tartan]

cowardice

[grand flower]

Tje marines save people…

[ornate tartan]

everyone isn’t built like Dragon

[grand flower]

Because Imu has orchestrated a sham world with a false history to manipulate the navy into thinking their atrocities are protecting the world

[thin quest]

not having big enough balls

[ornate tartan]

the average marine is a fodder tryna feed his family

[fringe ice]

Thanks for betraying your stupid worldview

[azure wasp]

When WG allows them to for benefit of thier agenda

[glass plume]

i also find it strange to justify Blackbeard when he attacks the Revolutionaries, whom share a common goal with him. the problem is that Blackbeard isn't out for the good of it, he is in it just because of his own greed and powerlust

[stone terrace]

Betraying? Lol

[fringe ice]

Not to mention most join to do good

[hasty sable]

The Marines are fighting against the revolutions on the behalf of corrupt and evil kings their subjects are trying to overthrow. They’re not a force for good.

[ornate tartan]

they join to protect the citizens from pirates

without the marines the world would be cooked

every pirate isn’t luffy

[fringe ice]

And they're not a force for pure evil either, it's more than black and white

[ornate tartan]

these guys are constantly destroying ppls lives on a daily basis

[hasty sable]

They’re absolutely a force for evil

[ornate tartan]

especially to nations who don’t pay the tribute

[timber glacier]

This would be true if Rocks and Sabo said Marines are alright just the WG is ass

[hasty sable]

I mean look at the things they’re doing lol

[thin quest]

seeing a lot of tongues coated in Marine boot polish right now

[stone terrace]

Without the marines there would just be a different from of policing that arises

[hasty sable]

Even Rocks doesn’t say the Marines are alright

[sand plinth]

what would happen to all the people who are currently marines as good people? they would probably become local law enforcement of some kind that doesnt enable genocide

there are good people within the marines that do good, but the organisation itself is evil

[stone terrace]

People wont just let pirates run wild

[fringe ice]

Explain how a force of pure evil constantly protects the defenseless

[hasty sable]

Harald does but he’s an idiot

[stone terrace]

The difference is they wouldnt be tainted by WG agenda

[timber glacier]

Bounty hunter piece

[small ember]

Woop Slap as Comissioner of the High Seas

[fringe ice]

Ah yes the morally great guy Rocks

[glass plume]

lmfao

[fringe ice]

The beater of children

The actual fucking pirate

Christ

[small ember]

We won’t really see bounty hunters again huh

[hasty sable]

Explain how a force that aids in genocide has any moral argument the Marines should not exist

[sand plinth]

🤨

[ornate tartan]

I think a lot of people who read the story forget how much of a problem PIRATES are😂

[fringe ice]

Loki

[glass plume]

the hero

[unique lagoon]

look at dragon
he cut off food supplies not only for CD but for other kingdom also

[hasty sable]

Pirates are a problem and the Marines are the world’s largest pirate crew

[sand plinth]

im not saying he doesnt but garp is a notorious child beater

[ornate tartan]

don’t get me wrong, the Marines are not good and I know this

they are bad but they aren’t Evil

morally grey is better term

[hasty sable]

Yep, as I I said lol

[timber glacier]

Oh true I misread my b

[azure wasp]

All marines are not evil but all of them are complicit
Marine are evil as an organization

Oda always has written that individuals can be good or bad regardless of thier race or affiliation.

Also please don't base your moral compass on oda words alone

[stone terrace]

If you think youre a good person but you knowingly uphold an evil status quo

[glass plume]

people love to neglect the page which says all of the Rocks pirates heinous crimes

[stone terrace]

I have bad news for you

[glass plume]

"all of the ports were filled with bad people."

[fringe ice]

Branding the entire marine force and condemning/ignoring all their good because of the evils they also commit due to corruption from the story's actual main villain force. Just keep in mind if what you're supporting was right Garp wouldn't exist and be portrayed the way he is by Oda

[glass plume]

"the nations were evil.!"

[azure wasp]

They are evil as an organization. What you mean is there are decent people within it

[sand plinth]

ok i hate to pull this card but like, nazis wouldve done good things for the people they deemed worthy, wouldve stopped actual criminals and wouldve been "good" for anyone that was on their good side....

[timber glacier]

Like most marines don't see the corruption or know of it as seen in Egghead and Garp in God Valley

[azure wasp]

"We must commit ethinic cleansing every 3 years to be good"

[stone terrace]

Embezzlement operations destroyed

Rocks: 1
Marines: 0
WOW

[azure wasp]

[ornate tartan]

some people even say “prove the towns he blew up weren’t corrupt” what?😂😂 so if you nuke 5 towns let’s say around 40-50k ppl lived there. how can u justify that all of those ppl are bad

gotta be the most ridiculous argument i’ve seen

[glass plume]

that's the decision of the Celestial Dragons, the Marines don't even know about the cleansing

[unique lagoon]

i knew dragon would do anything for it
end justifies the means

[stone terrace]

Let the narrator describe how many islands were genocides rhanks to the world government

[thin quest]

pirate is just a term used by the WG to label people they view as enemies, let's never forget that

[stone terrace]

Actually we dont need that, we can do the math

[fallen dust]

[hasty sable]

What did Aramaki say? That the people of Wano don’t have human rights because they don’t pay up? The Marines are a protection racket for the CDs.

[glass plume]

yeah, it's funny

[sand plinth]

law enforcement of some kind is necessary yeah sure, but the marines AS AN ORGANISATION is evil evil, despite any necessary or good acts they do (in service of those worthy of recieving it)

[azure wasp]

😭

Marines bombs slaves in cuffs because they don't pay taxes

[unique lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/bamboozled-hoodwinked-led-astray-stephen-a-smith-run-amok-gif-12466806

[glass plume]

this doesn't effect the countries, they cut it off so the countries couldn't supply Marijoa

[sand plinth]

they look like evil pirates to me, more innocent civillians saved 😎

[glass plume]

the countries still have the food

[ornate tartan]

you have no human rights is still the craziest line i’ve seen😂😂 bro YOU the one who supposed to be protecting them😂

[glass plume]

they just can't supply it to the Celestial Dragons

[fallen dust]

The slaves shouldn't have been born poor

[hasty sable]

Aramaki probably would if they had money

[unique lagoon]

yes but the CDs will keep asking for it = these countries will ran out of their own

[timber glacier]

Saying Born to burn to burn better

[sand plinth]

"kaido creates jobs and protects US, he cant be evil.. dont look over there at those people they dont count"

[azure wasp]

Yes they do, thry literally carried slaves to the island. They bombed those who tried to leave.

[hasty sable]

Whitebeard and Shanks are the guys protecting those places that don’t pay tribute

And they’re pirates

[glass plume]

the Revolutionaries are still making sure that they get to keep their food by breaking the automation to the Celestial Dragons, now they have to rely on people fetching food for them instead of having it delivered

[ornate tartan]

they are morally better then most pirates though

[azure wasp]

Which is pretty much one piece story, anyone can be good or evil

[unique lagoon]

will that really stop WG forcing them to make more supplies

[hasty sable]

Pirates come in all colors

[glass plume]

clearly, given the Celestial Dragons are starving as we speak

[unique lagoon]

the idea is Country ran out of supplies cuz CDs ask for it
they will revolt cuz it would be too much
= more army for revos

[timber glacier]

Well sort of Whitebeard protects only 1 island by hiding it under a waterfall and Shanks protection got cleared by bart lmao

[glass plume]

trying to twist this into that the Revolutionaries are doing bad against the common folk, is messed up.

[fringe ice]

All of them are complicit even though not all of them have enacted genocide? ❌

"individuals can be good or bad regardless of race or affiliation" I completely agree with this one because there are good and evil people on every side. Except Revolutionaries because they're the greatest faction in the world

[thin quest]

this is a crazy statement

[fallen dust]

The slaves chose to be slaves

[stone terrace]

Complicity does not require action

[unique lagoon]

dragon is literally doing this to gain more power/supporters

[stone terrace]

Complicity in fact can be defined by inaction

[ornate tartan]

and also I don’t understand when people say “all of the celestial dragons should be murdered” at the end of the story and wonder where ppl reading comprehension goes. This is NOT the message Oda is trying to convey😂

[glass plume]

yes, but not at the cost of the common folk starving.
He cut the food supply for the Celestial Dragons, this isn't effecting the common folk of the countries which delivered it

[unique lagoon]

revos basically got 8 nations now to rally
well 7 one went kaboom

[fringe ice]

Tell that to all the marines across the world who had nothing to do with any of it

[timber glacier]

Or know of it

[hasty sable]

Depends how based Oda is feeling when he gets there I guess

[unique lagoon]

well no they need to suffer first before realizing they need the revos

[fringe ice]

💔

[fallen dust]

Just be Born Rich it is Not that Hard man ✌️🥱

[glass plume]

it's insane that you try to paint the Revolutionaries as the bad guys now

[stone terrace]

Obviously marines that dont know anything are not included

[glass plume]

i can't take this seriously

[unique lagoon]

what im saying is its not 1s and 0s

[sand plinth]

a marine who doesnt know what is going on is excused, they dont know any better (because the marines AS AN ORGANISATION actively hides stuff from them)

a marine who knows EVERYTHING and still stays on on the other hand...

[stone terrace]

But almost everybody knows how the celestial dragons get down

So i doubt many can truthfully claim that

[unique lagoon]

if you dint get that then i dunno

[stone terrace]

And it only gets worse as you go up the chain

[azure wasp]

They might not know every single thing because it's a world wide organization.
But everyone knows what CDs are, everyone knows about ohara.

A soldier bare responsible of action taken by the organization. By supporting those who commit thise evil acts they become complicit in it

[hasty sable]

https://tenor.com/view/garp-laughing-laugh-lol-lmao-gif-6571677330770807425

[timber glacier]

Probably like koby they join the marine to protect people and never really got a cd mission or ever interacted with them

[stone terrace]

Actual conversation that happens in the manga

[unique lagoon]

that is pretty funny

[hasty sable]

When the Marines are acting as slave hunters for the CDs later too

[azure wasp]

Biggest slave auction at "good guys" door step

[fringe ice]

What happens if all those Marines you say are complicit, stationed across the Blues on duty to protect the civilians, give up their arms because they all simultaneously do exactly what you wish and stop working as marines? Chaos, disorder, pirates running unchecked, pillaging and murdering and anything in between

[azure wasp]

[unique lagoon]

that was doffys slave trade right?

[hasty sable]

Shiet man there is no saving this organization and I wonder how Oda is going to make it work in the end lol

Are they just going to say sorry? Lol

[sand plinth]

giving up being a marine doesnt mean giving up doing whats right, they dont vanish off the face of the earth

they would probably just keep the peace without the label of marine and without having to potentially be drafted for slave capturing

[glass plume]

they'll be reformed

[fringe ice]

What I've been saying this whole time the heart if the disease is the government

[prisma yacht]

Yeah

[fringe ice]

^^^

[stone terrace]

Many who aided and abetted in slavery are gonna get a full pardon

[glass plume]

SWORD are the foundation to a reformed Marines

[hasty sable]

The Marines are their own part of the disease

[glass plume]

They're the "Good Marines" all collected into one

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-hmph-arms-crossed-mad-pout-gif-25252222

[unique lagoon]

it being owned by doffy just adds another layer to it being protected by WG

[fallen dust]

WG = Bad
Marines = Good/Bad

[fringe ice]

And you think money, funding, equipment, weapons, ships, organization and everything else simply grows on trees right?

[hasty sable]

Swore isn’t pro-reform. If anything they have even fewer checks than the public face of the Marines while still serving the same interests of the government.

[azure wasp]

The world is the way it is because WG has made it that way in past 800 years.

Dismantle of marines does not mean thier shouldn't be a force like marines to protect everyday citizens.
You don't need to be a marine to protect people.

[sand plinth]

no its stolen from the people the government genocides lmao

[stone terrace]

Where do you think shanks gets funding from

[prisma yacht]

Just like how capitalism works 🗣️

[fringe ice]

Cool made up response ig

[hasty sable]

Sword will have to go fully rogue and fight the Marines from within to change it. But that fundamentally different to what they are now. They exist to fight pirates on their own terms without red tape.

[unique lagoon]

📈

[timber glacier]

What funding he has 1 ship he is a bum

[fringe ice]

How does this force suddenly spawn in simultaneously around the globe in this ideal scenario of yours?

[distant vine]

I wonder how far this employment office coverup goes. If the citizens of Sabaody can actually get help there

[sand plinth]

actually mb the countries that are members (the only ones the marines are allowed to protect) pay exorbitant amounts of money to the government, thats where the money comes from

[fringe ice]

Which when you don't serve in the marines you don't have access to

None of the equipment

[azure wasp]

Name 1 good thing sword has done

[fringe ice]

None of the anything they need to help and protect

And certainly not trained soldiers

[unique lagoon]

i kinda wish oda would dive deeper into the underworld* blackmarket stuff
the same people who funded pirate island and got owned

[glass plume]

didn't you read Koby's rescue?

they managed to save the slaves

[unique lagoon]

he kinda did during the tea party i guess

[sand plinth]

if im a country and i need peacekeepers, i would use money to pay people on the island to be cops, instead of forking out shitloads to the WG, but the wg WILL kill everyone in my country if i dont
after i pay, then i get "protected" (20% from the pirates, who i couldve dealt with using a fraction of the money i gave away, and 80% from the government who will pillage everything if i dont)

[azure wasp]

Never said it had to be done in 1 day.
It's going to be generation struggle. It's not easy to undo 800 years of tyranny

[hasty sable]

Koby did free slaves yeah. Though that was a coincidence of him being there outside of his mission parameters. The first time we saw Koby in Sword he was invading Amazon Lily to arrest Hancock lol

Sword is just a special forces group for the Marines

[stone terrace]

Its ok to free slaves if theyre a pirates but not if its guvment property

[distant vine]

You guys are so mean to the Marines 😞

[unique lagoon]

wait they are called "emperors"
never heard of it

[hasty sable]

I’m pro-Cross Guild

[azure wasp]

Sure they saved some slaves from pirates but will never save skaves that lives right next to marines HQ

Literally the slave capital is above marines HQ, go save them.like fisher tiger did

[stone terrace]

I take extra offense to hypocrites

[timber glacier]

Its a viz translations thing

[distant vine]

Wonder if we'll see Umit soon

[fringe ice]

Might come as a surprise but most people don't want to irrationally surrender arms, throw themselves and their families and kingdoms to pirates for moral superiority since some others far away under the same banner committed an atrocity of vague implications since the WG 1000% branded Ohara as the evil ones

[unique lagoon]

ah makes sense

[stone terrace]

Wearing justice on your back and being a marine is a contradiction

[distant vine]

Its his place thats under seige now by Revos

[hasty sable]

I agree. I think the Marines have mastered their part in the exploitation model.

[unique lagoon]

oh umit guy the under sea current king or some shit right?

[hasty sable]

“Pay our tribute and our global military will protect you or don’t and we might kill you maybe.”

[unique lagoon]

this guy really did massive improvement/damage to the OP verse huh?

[ornate tartan]

that’s why they only use non affiliated nations for hunting games

[sand plinth]

yeah but individually some marines keep peace in those countries sometimes

[fringe ice]

Once again proving my point that the heart of the corruption is the WG

[hasty sable]

Organize against the king that was ruling like a tyrant? Well, you might as well be pirates then.

[timber glacier]

Ngl the hunting games seems like a last minute thing to set up god valley lmao.

[unique lagoon]

why

[azure wasp]

It's saying
"Those who benefit from imperialistic oppression and exploitation don't want it to end"

Ya no fucking shit, this is why revolutionary exist. They must be forced to lay down thier arms.

[fringe ice]

Not what I said

[hasty sable]

And you’re missing the point that the Marines exist as the weapon of empire and don’t actually have a pure core that’s being steered by external interest. They fundamentally exist as a state army that enforces the status quo and bends to the rich and powerful.

[timber glacier]

Because like nobody tried to stop it or it also went to plan and when one didnt they stopped it completely out of like the 270 times they did it

[hasty sable]

So yeah they are evil and they’re worse than the pirates they fight against in the grand scheme of things lol

[fringe ice]

In your opinion is Garp evil and fucked up as much as you make the marines out to be?

[hasty sable]

Garp is complicit in evil yes

[distant vine]

I think if you asked Oda's opinion he'd say this

[hasty sable]

Where do you think the whole Fist of Oppression thing comes from

[distant vine]

But I think what Archer is saying is valid

[timber glacier]

The pirates are worse the the marines we just didnt see any pirates being pirates

[fringe ice]

Then we have a fundamental difference in opinion because I actually read god valley

[hasty sable]

Yeah Oda is kind of a dumbass about this unfortunately

[sand plinth]

"the pirates" meaning who?

[hasty sable]

But he made a compelling situation

That is very reflective of real life

[unique lagoon]

guess it was just that much of a secret
like sengoku said it was all hush hush
not to mention the ocean is pretty big

[timber glacier]

Kidd pre timeskip when he was crucified people

[hasty sable]

I would take most of the things I’ve said about Oda back if he actually has a strong commentary about police action in the end using the Marines

[sand plinth]

saying pirates are bad is like saying criminals are bad

there is no connection between someone who got arrested by a bad cop vs someone who is legit doing evil shit

kidd and luffy are both pirates, but dont really share anything other than the fact that the government doesnt like them

meanwhile all marines activately paricipate under the same structured organisation and rules

[ornate tartan]

whoever is in power gets to decide who is a pirate or not

basically if u oppose them u labeled a pirate

[sand plinth]

and that includes both good and bad people

[timber glacier]

True I'm just saying that the majority of pirates are not like luffy, and saying marines are worse then the majority of pirates i don't believe because of intent

[ornate tartan]

like they say history is written by the winners

[sand plinth]

yeah but the label pirate itself is kinda meaningless

[unique lagoon]

how perfect do people want the marines be
considering OP world is pretty fuckup

[sand plinth]

"pirate" is anyone that is free and is strong enough to not get killed for it

[timber glacier]

Thats luffy definition

[ornate tartan]

people like Luffy understands what being a pirate really means

fans assume that u have to be evil to be a “real pirate”

[sand plinth]

not really, but "good" pirates die and "Strong" pirates are generally out for themselves and are evil

[fallen dust]

you're not gon believe this

[timber glacier]

Most pirates kill steal like Buggys delivery

Or kaido

[sand plinth]

the overlap of people who are "good" and "strong" is few

[ornate tartan]

they don’t kill and steal because they are a pirate

they kill and steal because they are bad people

[timber glacier]

Bad people can be pirates lmao

[prisma yacht]

Sounds like Blackbeard

[ornate tartan]

yes they can

[sand plinth]

yes obviously but the label itself has nothing to do with that

[ornate tartan]

good people can be pirates too

[sand plinth]

bad people can be marines too

[prisma yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-blackbeard-marshall-d-teach-teech-whitebeard-gif-19895487

[timber glacier]

True

[hasty sable]

Pirates are also ultimately on the right side of this war in OP. What do you make of that?

[timber glacier]

What war? Most pirates are not in a war

[hasty sable]

They’ve always been at war

[sand plinth]

this is interesting, the idea of needing power to overthrow evil, even if the power you need is evil itself

[timber glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/war-never-changes-war-fallout-soldier-run-gif-16498934

[sand plinth]

i mean its kinda like some revolutions irl, where the only people crazy enough to kill people and overthrow the government are as bad as the existing (already bad) government

[fallen dust]

Garp = 4 letters
Slaves= 6 letters
→ 4 + 6 = 10

→ 10 × 6 + 7 (the number of letters in Freedom) = 67

[timber glacier]

Number piece no

[hasty sable]

I wouldn’t even say that the power they need is evil. I don’t think that Roger or Whitebeard or Shanks are evil in any way. But I think resistance can be messy which we see in how piracy spread because of them.

[prisma yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/black-man-crying-cry-crying-crying-emoji-crying-meme-gif-3223392509479903783

[sand plinth]

my favourite garp slander is the fact that he named his son dragon (after the celestial dragons)

[timber glacier]

Or he just likes dragons

[hasty sable]

Roger started a global revolution with the Great Age of Piracy, he inspired a lot of evil people. But he also inspired a lot of good. And it was to save the world in the end.

[ornate tartan]

well said bro

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/saitama-one-punch-man-opm-glance-look-back-gif-13154418

[ornate tartan]

that’s what ppl fail to realize

[fallen dust]

don't hate garp 😢

[azure wasp]

I would say that but pretty obvious the marines vs pirates is clearly a setup by imu to prevent raise of joyboy or davy jones.

[timber glacier]

Not really rogar doesnt give a fuck about the WG he went to god valley to get a women / Df and money on whatever flashback you reading

[sand plinth]

we dont really know what roger was like tbh

[haughty saddle]

Roger wanted to upend the status quo

That much we do know

[alpine trench]

Do you think Archer was talking about Roger at God Valley

[sand plinth]

luffy didnt really give a fuck about the wg either, he was mostly motivated by random bs

[hasty sable]

https://tenor.com/view/principal-skinner-no-seymour-skinner-the-simpsons-hesitant-gif-15806752

[alpine trench]

The man changed over the years after GV

[prisma yacht]

He Obv didn't know much about wg when he was at gv

[sand plinth]

i can and will hate garp and his fists of opression

[azure wasp]

Revolutionary is the only actual people doing anything out of moral obligation

[timber glacier]

No I'm just saying his intent was not to gather pirates to over thru the goverment rather just a "fuck you" to the government

[azure wasp]

[hasty sable]

Garp is mostly just frustrating because Oda seems to still think he’s pretty noble despite everything

[sand plinth]

RIGHT thats what im saying

[fallen dust]

The slaves shouldn't have been born poor

[hasty sable]

Please please like this character he says

[haughty saddle]

He is noble despite everything

[ornate tartan]

bait?

[hasty sable]

I would like Garp more if Oda was honest about the kind of person he is

[sand plinth]

garp really really really needs better motivation or at least to regret his choices

[alpine trench]

You can be a noble guy at heart and also abet bad shit happening

[fallen dust]

No, he is taking responsibility that the slaves are in good Care of their rigtful owners

[sand plinth]

reminder: sengoku is a good dude at heart and he burned ohara to a crisp

[alpine trench]

It doesn’t turn Garp into a bad guy necessarily and he’s always been the way he is without any apology despite moral scruples

[hasty sable]

That’s fine too but Oda is hardly even critical of Garp. We are meant to take his whole hero of the marines thing at face value, or at least that’s how it seems to me

[fringe ice]

He is noble

[hasty sable]

Sengoku is different. I think Sengoku is written to be hated a little bit.

Garp not so much

[sand plinth]

agreed

[fringe ice]

Sengoku is way more grey due to his direct actions with bad shit

[alpine trench]

Sengoku and Garp are different people

[fringe ice]

Garp doesn't do that shit

[alpine trench]

Garp is more unapologetic

[fallen dust]

Oda doesn't seem to understand gray morality and Garp is a clear sign of that

[sand plinth]

garp knows about it and sticks his head in the sand

[urban lodge]

Huh

[sand plinth]

i would call that gray and i would call sengoku bad

[alpine trench]

This is just a stupid thing to say despite the entire discussion here

[azure wasp]

Luffy is a representing of extreme side of freedom not some moral clarity people should rely on.

He's a anarchist

[haughty saddle]

He just punched Imu in the head. I’m gonna throw up man.

I hate this Garp discourse in this community

[sand plinth]

and then worked under him as a dog for 40 years

[fringe ice]

Sengoku is mostly a person that wants to do good but ends up doing some pretty bad shit as well amidst it all, if we don't see more from him he's gonna end up as one of the most confusing OP characters to me

[alpine trench]

Garp explaining his reasoning to stay behind and One Piece fans can’t read what he said

[haughty saddle]

Literally this week. Literally written down explicitly. And shown. Explicitly.

[hasty sable]

Yeah he punched Imu and then immediately said he was going to continue being a tool of empire and giving their state army good public relations for forty years lol

[haughty saddle]

Ermmm yeah but Imu is evil

[sand plinth]

its a terrible reason thats why

[vestal heath]

Good morning

[alpine trench]

He is complicit yes

[hasty sable]

Garp also let Ace die

[fringe ice]

I've been dealing with it for like an hour it's your turn now

[hasty sable]

He sucks

[alpine trench]

Sure he sucks

[ornate tartan]

gm

[vestal mural]

Garp slander in chat

[glass plume]

lmfao, some people will just run with it into the wall and never realize they have been hit with a concussion

[alpine trench]

The fact that we’re disputing his actions and putting into the perspective of our own morality is evidence that he’s effective

[azure wasp]

No one has trouble understanding why he stayed.
People has problem with the reason he stayed with them

[haughty saddle]

And actively impeded his efforts. Raised dozens of morally solid men and women who are fighting against the status quo.

[hasty sable]

I don’t dislike Garp as a character at all tbh

I more just dislike the way I think Oda sees him lol

[azure wasp]

Neither do i, it's a different topic

[alpine trench]

Oda doesn’t see him as a perfect guy either if that’s what the dispute is

[fallen dust]

Garp is a grey character

[fringe ice]

No, he didn't. He was torn apart the whole arc and then he let Luffy free him

[azure wasp]

I dislike how the fandom sees him

[fallen dust]

But Oda never lets you actually think this about him, beyond one scene with Dadan

[azure wasp]

[glass plume]

i mean Garp was the FIRST one to get into gear against Akainu, threatening to kill him

[fringe ice]

90% of the fandom thinks he's "the fist of oppression"

[glass plume]

if it wasn't for Sengoku, Akainu would've been mush effectively

[sand plinth]

ok yeah but he didnt kill akainu

[alpine trench]

Garp is headstrong, he’s actively a hazard for the government to handle, he risks himself and puts himself into stupid situations, cannot separate work from real, has made decisions that actively impede his legacy

[azure wasp]

Because a temporary emotional outburst not out of obligation or sense or just

[sand plinth]

and he didnt free ace for however long he was in prison

[stone terrace]

If you think garps reasoning exonerates him totally then you're not worth speaking to truthfully

Go join uncle sam

[alpine trench]

No one thinks he’s exonerated

[haughty saddle]

First year polsci student energy

[alpine trench]

He’s complicit in all the bad that came as a result of the Marines actions he so wants to defend

[ornate tartan]

this channel loves Rocks and Garp discourse😂 seems like yall never talk about Roger as much as those 2

[glass plume]

yeah, the whole narrative around Garp is that he doesn't want to be bound by the Celestial Dragons, since he knows that they're shit heads.

[alpine trench]

What’s there to talk about Roger

[azure wasp]

Majority think he and the marines are good.
Fist of oppression simply a loud meme

[haughty saddle]

cool mustache

[stone terrace]

50,000 in student loan forgiveness it says it here in the fine print

[unique lagoon]

if he unlocked VOAT after or before Rocks fight

[alpine trench]

Especially in this regard

[dark nymph]

waiting for Roger to be HIM club

[glass plume]

SWORD is the seed for a reformation of the Marines, which Garp is the head of

[alpine trench]

What do you expect to be told about Roger

[ornate tartan]

Roger hasn’t had his flashback yet

[urban lodge]

Op fans think Roger is a fraud nowadays

[fringe ice]

Not really I'd argue most see him as objectively bad and don't dissect it past that

[ornate tartan]

i’m sure he will get one

[alpine trench]

Surely

[glass plume]

Roger was him through all of this flashback, it's just faulty for people to expect him to be a walking PNG of aura farm

[timber glacier]

Miss when his mustache was his nose hair

[glass plume]

they aren't even fans

[alpine trench]

But like, what did you intend when you said this channel doesn’t talk as much about Rocks or Garp

[unique lagoon]

keep an eye on smoker hes memed on
but i think the mf got heavy inspired by fujis action in dresrossa

guy about to do something crazy

[jade rain]

And he won't mostly, it's done with oden

[glass plume]

it's not done, lol

[ornate tartan]

smoker probably isn’t going to do anything major

[haughty saddle]

Yeah we had like a month where teenagers were calling him a simpgod goonlord soyboy and shit. They burned out on the Roger topic

[fringe ice]

Oh thank you for reminding me, I somehow forgot to mention GOATED marines like fuji and smoker exist too

[glass plume]

we barely know anything about Roger in it's entirety

[alpine trench]

Roger isn’t as complicated as Garp or part of the system like he is

[sand plinth]

i think the sad thing is garp is so many other marines have actually done their due diligence when they found out about how evil the marines are

[glass plume]

we just know what he accomplished

[sand plinth]

garp isnt evil so much as his plan just seems bad

[unique lagoon]

what is major action for you then

[alpine trench]

Countless marines exist who know the evil shit the government does and still stay

[glass plume]

we don't even know whom gave Roger the straw hat, or why he aspired to become a pirate in the first place

[upbeat yarrow]

we dont have much to talk about roger unless we see why they came with a different perspective for what the one piece is at laughtale

[ornate tartan]

you think we won’t learn the Pirate Kings childhood and younger years and how he got the strawhat

[sand plinth]

now that everyone is gathered here, lets talk about gecko moria :))

[glass plume]

why?

[fringe ice]

Man who cares about that poser

[sand plinth]

wtf is his piece in the story

[unique lagoon]

smoker is so fed up with WG/marines already because his rank was not high enough he cant do shit
thats what he said iirc
now he prob on a war path to "change" whatever that is in his eyes

[ashen perch]

We absolutely will, I think Oda covers it alongside Shanks

[fringe ice]

I meant to type loser but that works

[native seal]

first off all get it right its kozuki moria now

the hood got a new member

[dark nymph]

He's cool but I'm still waiting to know more about him, we'll get that at some point but this flashback still left a lot to be desired

[urban lodge]

Cross Guild poneglyph reader

[stone terrace]

Moria is the greatest fraudster in OP history

[alpine trench]

Yeah so far I’m expecting more of his younger years (especially considering the hat that’s been passed down) and his formative years with the Roger Pirates besides the One Piece and Laugh Tale

[glass plume]

waht's there to talk about with Gecko Moria that hasn't been said, lol
i remember when that coverpage came out and it was straight up 24/7 discussions about Kozuki Moria

[dark nymph]

for Roger at least

[wraith mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/masuka-dexter10-dexter-dexter-gi-fs-masuka-gif-6073014

[azure wasp]

Most see him as good and marines as grey
But i agree majority can't dissect beyond surface

[ashen perch]

Moria is cool, he is joining Cross Guild, but I am not convinced that he can read the poneglyphs though. We'll see

[unique lagoon]

im telling you buggy will defeat one of the SH fleet captain
take luffys vivre card and just follow it to laughtale

[glass plume]

it would certainly be in line with Buggy's luck if he could

[rare thunder]

It’s my birthday

[sand plinth]

moria tried to invade both kaido and blackbeard (yeah he got his ass kicked both times but hey points for trying)

[jade rain]

We won't, there might be a small bit about the straw hat and some details in shanks FB, but other than that i doubt we get a full on backstory.

[glass plume]

happy birthday dude

[rare thunder]

Thx

[fringe ice]

Luffy to moria after his sad speech: you went on live and said you pop pirates, you don't pop pirates. You went on live and said pirates know how you get down, pirates don't know how you get down

[stone terrace]

https://preview.redd.it/oe7t4o974ej31.jpg?auto=webp&s=b24406c921ee3962fe8a9479d685e92e1d3d9738

[sand plinth]

moria technically had 3 former rocks pirates in his crew

[upbeat yarrow]

moria is the key to all of this

[native seal]

kozuki moria being the poneglyph reader of crossguild is cinema

[rose rune]

Is this moria?

[native seal]

theyre 3 poneglyphs behind

[sand plinth]

dude hes weirdly relevant

[azure wasp]

He was a rice farmer

[unique lagoon]

what people think with LOKI killing former rocks pirates

[ornate tartan]

who said Moria can read poneglyphs

[glass plume]

why would he do that?

[azure wasp]

Potentially

[rose rune]

Kozuki moria

[ornate tartan]

i know it’s potentially but why do ppl act like it’s confirmed

[rose rune]

He knows all

[sand plinth]

hes a kozuki right 🤷‍♂️

[unique lagoon]

he thinks rocks crew betrayed him
did some revenge adventure

[stone terrace]

crossguild still doesnt have a single rp

[glass plume]

that would be cool, if Loki got that information

[stone terrace]

But i think captains john treasure will have rubbings

[ornate tartan]

wasn’t moria raised in the west blue

[wide star]

Loki already blames the WG for Rocks death , so idk if he would blame the crew too

[ornate tartan]

when the hell would he have learned to read poneglyphs

[rose rune]

Nothing is ever confirmed, we're just good at fooling ourselves in this fandom

[glass plume]

but if Loki did go on a rampage against all of the Rocks pirates former members, would his name really be hidden like this?

[urban lodge]

Born in west blue, raised in Ringo

[azure wasp]

Born in west blue, raised in wano

[unique lagoon]

well if you remember
when rocks got defeated the fodder pirates said the rocks crew dint like each other
and it would never work

[glass plume]

i always find it weird that Loki was this big giant monster who only Shanks could stop, and yet we've heard nothing from him

not a single ounce about what he accomplished in those 8 years

[azure wasp]

Loki name isn't hidden tho?

[sand plinth]

loki falling into hell and climbing back out as a newborn is one of the craziest feats in one piece ngl

[glass plume]

it essentialy is, given no one knew about him or his true nature up until Elbaph

[rose rune]

We used to have a toy store named ringo

[azure wasp]

Because his actions had no effect on people we follow in the story

[glass plume]

no one knew that he was a monster, who rampaged 8 years ago and only Shanks could stop him

[unique lagoon]

it is pretty funny
some random unstoppable giant gaban was gassing up
that went out at sea causing havoc

[glass plume]

i mean, Shanks was pretty integral

[stone terrace]

6 months until we find out lokis fruit name

[urban lodge]

Was it owned by Ringo Starr?

[glass plume]

yeah lol

[wide star]

plus loki got locked up before the worst generation result started making moves so he missed out on a lot

[stone terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-mr-krabs-ring-the-bell-ringing-bell-gif-16270849

[rose rune]

No

[azure wasp]

Know one his true nature because loki himself doesn't reveal it.

[sand plinth]

we dont know anything about any characters in one piece tbh its not surprising

[unique lagoon]

you could argue WG tried hiding his existence because they might "need" him in the future

DF stuff

[haughty saddle]

It sorta makes sense. He’s been locked up for like, most of our protagonist group’s lives. He’s the narrative crux around one of the bigger plot points in Whole Cake way back when. Big Mom was literally foaming at the mouth for him.

[stone terrace]

Whats a toy store? Everything is on amazon

[glass plume]

safe to assume that Gaban and Shanks knew about his true nature, and what he did.
and yet no news about him or any myths even

everyone just thought he was a harmless prince who was rejected by Lola

[wet condor]

Jinbe knew who he was

[glass plume]

yeah, maybe that's why the "Special Bounty"

[azure wasp]

The story started years after loki was imprisoned. So loki was very much out of story till now.

Whatever he did back then had not much influence beside lola rejection

[glass plume]

yes but not any deep information, just the shallow stuff

[wet condor]

That's a role that designates him for. To be the OG who knows the ropes

[haughty saddle]

Hasn’t he been in shackles most of Jinbei’s piracy career?

[wet condor]

What would be considered deep?

[glass plume]

like the fact that he rampaged around 8 years at the sea, until Shanks beat him

that would be widespread news i feel like

"the giant prince Loki, taken down by Shanks!.."

[urban lodge]

He didn't leave any survivors

[unique lagoon]

was it 8 years of rampage or 4?

[glass plume]

i suppose so, but still, i find it weird

[wet condor]

Jinbe's been a pirate for a long time. He was pirate for those 6 years & Jinbe probably heard about him during that time

[wide star]

how long has loki been chained up ? i assume it was before the seas got real crazy

[glass plume]

i think it was 8 years

[urban lodge]

Yeah he was at sea for 8 years

[stone terrace]

Jimbei, knows a lot because of his stature but cursed to not know too much because he'd spoil the plot

[urban lodge]

Chained up for 6

[unique lagoon]

shanks wasnt even a yonko

shanks yonko 6 years ago

[glass plume]

i find it strange that Jinbe didn't know about the rampaging giant then

it came to a surprise to everyone when the giants told them

[azure wasp]

Because we as readers lacked certain informations, information we wouldn't get because strawhats didn't really cross into whatever could reveal that information

[rose rune]

Kinda funny tho how the giants threw their cursed prince at BM and she thought they would have a good relationship

[glass plume]

i'd still like an explanation in universe for it

[wet condor]

I can understand why people not know that Shanks was the one who took him down

[tough igloo]

6 so before any of the worst gen started making moves .. Blackbeard was still a “nobody” on WB crew , Ace wasn’t a pirate yet

[wraith mantle]

Shanks defeating Loki gave him Yonko status

[unique lagoon]

i feel like shanks child of destiny mission made him spare loki
because if he dint capture him WG would have?

cuz WG did froze the legendary giant group ye?

[glass plume]

i am heavily into the idea that Shanks is a descendant of Joyboy btw, and that's what made him the destiny child

[glass plume]

probably

[azure wasp]

Because luffy doesn't concern himself with news, I'm sure robin and jinbae knows

[glass plume]

then they wouldn't be so shocked of the revelations right?

possibly have more information on it even

[wet condor]

I know Jinbe didn't say anything about it, but that doesn't mean he didn't know. I understand what you're saying though. If he did know that would've been a good time for Oda to have had Jinbe give some info on that considering that's one of the things Jinbe does on the crew

[glass plume]

i suppose so

[azure wasp]

What revelations?

[glass plume]

"accuresed prince Loki who rampaged at sea for 8 years, with no one but Shanks to stop him!"

[unique lagoon]

watch how jinbe just magically knows about it
"oh yeah i remember now"

[wide star]

ahhh that makes sense … would’ve been interesting if he did run into WB but it’s possible Shanks was the only yonko/top tier he ran into on the seas

[glass plume]

Lmfao, that would be hilarious

[unique lagoon]

like he said the gaban story was well known

SH never talks to each other

[glass plume]

"All this thinking made be remember... the news were big that day!"

[unique lagoon]

they are shit friends

[fringe ice]

Rayleigh was better known (I had to gas him up)

[ashen perch]

this is them talking to each other tho lol

[distant vine]

I wonder where are the elders who mandated the marriage to Estrid

[unique lagoon]

its all need to know basis

[stone terrace]

What goes on in luffys head during voyages

[ashen perch]

yea, because nobody usually brings up random things for no reason lol

[wet condor]

More like fantasizing about meat

And adventures

and being PK

[tough igloo]

yeah Loki probably knows absolutely nothing about the present day seas aside from Shanks & Big Mom (well she’s cooked so nvm he don’t know that either )

[wraith mantle]

lol

[azure wasp]

Jinbae knew

[frail cradle]

dead. because now Jarul is the oldest

[wet condor]

He said something like "You wouldn't happen to mean..."

[ashen perch]

"oh we are talking about X? yea I know that" makes tons more sense than them just hearing about it offscreen

[wet condor]

So like, that tells us that he knows a lil' something but not all of the details

[distant vine]

Surely they would want Loki to be king whether or not the public approves right?

[ashen perch]

yeah Jinbe knew about Loki

[frail cradle]

they’re dead my friend

[distant vine]

Oh, well they dont necessarily need to be the oldest right?

[frail cradle]

true that

[unique lagoon]

fixed it for you

[distant vine]

And surely even if they died there were others to take their place

[tough igloo]

probably not if they didn’t feel like Loki would listen to them like Harald was

[unique lagoon]

!shanks

[tropic nova]

https://i.imgur.com/xVMfR1O.png

[unique lagoon]

no not that

[fringe ice]

And his crew somewhere in a corner

[unique lagoon]

the zoro one

[frail cradle]

somehow these elders didnt object when Jarul took office over Loki

[urban lodge]

!shanks2

[tropic nova]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1212095298609094727/1385389375621435564/1385388957809905674remix-1750372965141.png?ex=6855e3e6&is=68549266&hm=cdd84ef0f567684daeb2c140dd63c2ee7c8f17dcabc17dec3e03b9a53a64140f&

[rose rune]

At some point these will fuse

[unique lagoon]

yee that one

[urban lodge]

I prefer the official translation

[frail cradle]

and that was after Harald’s death

[unique lagoon]

[urban lodge]

"Shanks obsessed fool"

[urban lodge]

Lmao

So funny

I like that Oda is self aware about how obsessed Luffy is

[tough igloo]

lol zoro being fed up with luffy talking about shanks is hilarious lol

[fringe ice]

He's a mihawk fan

[stone terrace]

I agree with zoro

[ashen perch]

Luffy really should have met Shamrock...

[tough igloo]

same lol i was tired of hearing luffy glaze shanks too lol y’all both yonkos now , act like it 😂

[ashen perch]

I really thought we were building to it based on all the emphasis on his relationship with Shanks lol

[frail cradle]

Chapter 433

[distant vine]

POV: Indigex talking to BB fans

[frail cradle]

Look it up

[ashen perch]

I guess the arc's far from over so perhaps later

[unique lagoon]

sometimes jinbes wisdom kicks in
sometimes hes just cliffhanger tool

[ashen perch]

When has his wisdom not kicked in?

[frail cradle]

Nami didnt even know shanks was that famous

[azure wasp]

He can never figure out what's happening.

[unique lagoon]

im sure theres times jinbe dint full reveal info he knew

got cut off and such

[distant vine]

Jinbe's still thinking about how to counter Gunko btw guys

Yall wanna 6 months post now?

[ashen perch]

I cant think of an instance tbh

[frail cradle]

wait

[distant vine]

[ashen perch]

and yes he will indi, trust

[frail cradle]

is Jinbe in chains with others rn?

[unique lagoon]

in arrows

[ornate tartan]

he will break out

[sand plinth]

not sure if luffy would "shanks your arm and scar healed!" or just immediately clock him through fanboy instincts

[ashen perch]

arrows but yea

[urban lodge]

The philosopher of the straw hats

[distant vine]

Yes he's tied up by Base Gunko

[frail cradle]

Jinbe should easily beat up Sommers no?

[golden valley]

No

[tough igloo]

lol oda would have him lose

[stone terrace]

Wtf do we need jimbei to counter that for 😭

[unique lagoon]

if jinbes armament is strong enough he should be able to deal with the arrow rope ye?

[stone terrace]

This isnt gunko its gunkmu

[golden valley]

In fact, he should lose

[tough igloo]

so luffy zoro or sanji can win

[ashen perch]

eh, its Luffy, he cant look through disguises and stuff already, he wouldnt clock that its not Shanks immediately imo

[frail cradle]

Im confused why is Jinbe in chains

bro should be strong enough

[golden valley]

Jinbei probably losing to every HK ngl

[unique lagoon]

surely gunkos arrow aint barto level barrier

[distant vine]

Gunko beat him up

[urban lodge]

Because Gunko is stronger?

[rose rune]

Jinbe in chains is the name of his band

[frail cradle]

Base Gunko > Jinbe?

[tough igloo]

cause he’s part of the weaker straw hats now lol that’s the downside to any decently strong character joining the straw hats post timeskip

[wet condor]

Long as they got that regen, I have to agree lol

[distant vine]

Monster Duo is full with Zoro and Luffy

[ashen perch]

Let Jinbe cook, he is figuring out his Fishman Karate counter for regen to beat Qilingham later in the arc, have faith

[frail cradle]

y’all with gunko pfp confuses me

[unique lagoon]

whats gunkos title again
God of what?

[frail cradle]

sword of somethinf

[native cloud]

[stone terrace]

Blade of god

[sand plinth]

something weird i realised is that its presumed the opop fruit procedure was used on imu, but all the elders are immortal too (and gunko presumably)

did they just cycle the fruit around a few times or is it a different immortality?

[azure wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/loki-one-piece-gif-6066045990477841212

[unique lagoon]

oh ryuma was god of blade i think

[rose rune]

Doesn't help that we're both pink

[frail cradle]

i know thats why

[distant vine]

Id have Bonney join before I have Loki join

[fringe ice]

They're multiplying

[sturdy steeple]

As one of the biggest Jinbei’s fans in the server
No

[fringe ice]

Get pest control

[frail cradle]

ok guys

[unique lagoon]

shame

[distant vine]

Ugh if Loki joins he might steal the Sanjuan Wolf fight from the Sunny Mech, thatd be terrible

[frail cradle]

is Jinbe the CURRENT WSF (world strongest fishmen) ?

[urban lodge]

No

[frail cradle]

who would beat him

[fringe ice]

Oh shit they included Vivi in this let's go

[urban lodge]

He still loses to Jack

[ashen perch]

by the end of Elbaf, you WILL learn to put MORE respect on Boss Jinbe's name

[tough igloo]

i think he can beat Jack

[frail cradle]

that shit doesnt count

[ashen perch]

no he doesnt

[fringe ice]

Is he still alive?

[frail cradle]

we want pureblood fishman

[azure wasp]

Jinbae and sanji will figure out water and fire is thier regen weakness

[frail cradle]

not hybrid

[unique lagoon]

vivi sh deniers in shambles

[stone terrace]

We'll never know unfortunately

[urban lodge]

Well no but for the sake of the hypothetical

[stone terrace]

Loda

[frail cradle]

Jack is hybrid

[fringe ice]

Hmm

[frail cradle]

lets do pureblood fishmen

who’ the WSF

[rose rune]

That's probably arlonbei, his father

[ashen perch]

Current Jinbe is beating Qilingham, who is stronger than Jack, its fine

[fringe ice]

Jack should hypothetically be stronger by a bit, but he's such a fuckin fraud he'd find a way to lose to chadbe

[fallen meteor]

Qili is a fishman??

Or is this a pointy teeth thing

[ashen perch]

no I didnt mean that per se

[fringe ice]

The billion berry jobber

[unique lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-the-drought-jack-one-piece-jack-jack-vs-fujitora-jack-vs-sengoku-gif-4423226422003544629

[frail cradle]

And the gill thing

[sand plinth]

jack the feat drought

[ashen perch]

I just meant he's stronger than Jack, even if he's human

[unique lagoon]

jack is brave tho i give him that

stupid brave

[frail cradle]

I think Killingham might be a hybrid as well

[urban lodge]

The HKs are weird so it wouldn't surprise me

[fringe ice]

Fujitora alone mogs him so hard

[ashen perch]

weakest HK clears the strongest YC, its fine

[tough igloo]

we saw 2 different scabbards whoop on Jack & i do believe Jinbei is stronger than the scabbards individually

[fringe ice]

Oda really was trynna make Jack look ferocious

[fallen meteor]

Hey YC seems very strong don't shit talk him like that

[fringe ice]

Haha no

[sand plinth]

jack 🤝 gecko moria
picking fights you absolutely can not win

[rose rune]

With that haircut?

[haughty saddle]

he’s a vers yeah

[ashen perch]

well unless they have CoC (99% of them dont)

[frail cradle]

jack got beat up by old sengoku-tsuru?

[urban lodge]

And Fujitora

[ashen perch]

Fujitora/Sengoku/Tsuru

[unique lagoon]

i dont think anyone thought jack could free doffy
when that got released

[frail cradle]

Ok since no one object, we crown Jinbei as the current WSF

[fringe ice]

Beckman clears gunko

[frail cradle]

Previous WSF was Barbell / Sunbell

[ashen perch]

Beckman isnt even hurting her for now

[frail cradle]

or Fisher Tiger perhaps

[glass plume]

i'm sure there were people saying "Jack will be top 1, mark my words...!"

[haughty saddle]

Killing Ham as is right now is probably the strongest fishman we’ve seen, no?

[fringe ice]

I'd wager he got conq is why

[urban lodge]

Databook man

[haughty saddle]

The dream shit is absurdly busted

[frail cradle]

he’s hybrid. we want pureblood fishmen

[unique lagoon]

i mean thats a former fleet admiral and an admiral + genius tsuru

[fringe ice]

If he is one, yes

[haughty saddle]

That’s fucked

[glass plume]

i don't think he is a fishman, lol

[ashen perch]

well he might...just saying for now

[fallen meteor]

Fishracism

[sturdy steeple]

It’s me putting respect on the rules that are introduced by Oda. Fishman Karate alone won’t do a thing, lol.

[azure wasp]

Qillingham is there to stall zoro through ussop endless fears untill luffy and loki comes up to fight imu

[haughty saddle]

What the hell is he then man

[glass plume]

a human with sharp teeth

[haughty saddle]

Get outta here

[fallen meteor]

People saw gills too

[frail cradle]

a hybrid fishmen, just like

• dellinger
• jack

[glass plume]

oh you mean his scarf

[sand plinth]

surely a fishman cant be a noble?

[unique lagoon]

you guys think this mf can also shoot lasers from his mouth?

[fallen meteor]

I don't mean anything

[glass plume]

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-op-kuzan-aokiji-bartolomeo-gif-17967641925911421659

[sturdy steeple]

I think it’s a given that in the arc where conquerors shine the most + Oda deliberately emphasizes on the monster trio, Jinbei won’t play the most important role.

[fringe ice]

Nusjuro in Egghead and Killingham in Elbaf, Oda really feeding me with these cool centaurs

[glass plume]

Bartolomeo must be a fishman too

[frail cradle]

yes but HK is atupid

[haughty saddle]

Mmph.

Whatever he is he’s fine as a mf

Fish man, man man, wotan

[ashen perch]

well he's cooking up a plan to counter regen the last time we saw, Oda also was the one who introduced that. Let him cook.

[haughty saddle]

He’s a piece of ass, man

[frail cradle]

St. Satchel Maffey was a fishman maybe

[glass plume]

doubt it

[unique lagoon]

hes the new law

[glass plume]

it would go against the Celestial Dragons racism

[haughty saddle]

Law was never fine

[glass plume]

having a fishman family, i don't think so

[unique lagoon]

tell that to the polls

[sturdy steeple]

He’s thinking on how to deal with them. That doesn’t mean he would quite literally counter regen.

[frail cradle]

they break their own rules everytime

[glass plume]

they do?

[haughty saddle]

I blame straight women

[fringe ice]

They can be holy knights

[sturdy steeple]

And Jinbei can be of great help if he does at least something to support the big hitters.

[fallen meteor]

Imagine the one to solve regenpiece being Jinbe

[frail cradle]

Yeah they just pick whoever they want

[glass plume]

guaranteed that's a zoan state

[fallen meteor]

Like he thinks and lands on the solution

[urban lodge]

Maffey is the weirder one