also-manga

[brittle basin]

Earl, did you say BB and Loki are teaming up?

[sage temple]

The single strongest person in the world scared because Loki ate something

Are you deadass

[lofty fern]

Yes, but not Imu. You can't just jump from innocous words to suddenly thinking that everyone knows all the metaphors and nicknames and secret meanings that that one person had. WE know all the connections because we see all the parties and all the perspectives and have the backstory. You're trying to imply a chracter who is without most of that, suddenly knows everything we know and can make the same connections and puns. Which is not the case.

[steel stirrup]

Nah BB isn't the same man his father was so Loki won't follow him

[runic dock]

Yeah

[brittle basin]

Is it because they both mention something related to "the world?"

[latent hamlet]

Ye something about the chemicals of their flame sac that immolate once it comes contact with air

[sage temple]

They both basically share Rocks' will

[pulsar path]

Because the fruit is one of the two fruits rocks needed to beat him

[steel stirrup]

Oda seemed to just have Kaido channel the energy in his throat or some shit

[runic dock]

I mean that’s not the only thing , that’s a good branching off point , he also experienced his own domi reversi incident most likely , as well as having been highly inspired by rocks his whole young life and inspired by his words to Harald in the bar , like if we see Harald die the same way rocks did , it’s over , he’s going to bb

[sage temple]

Oh is that the counter point

[steel stirrup]

I cant see him following BB especially once he sees that BB is not going down the same path his father was

[brittle basin]

With this in mind, do you see Loki as a villain or antagonist if he does align his goals with BB?

[sage temple]

I doubt it'd be a "following" either

Rocks wanted Harald to work together as basically equals

Why can't the same be for Loki and BB

[steel stirrup]

That too

I can't see Loki following anyone

Again tho

Once Loki sees the shit BB is doing he will not want to work with him

[sage temple]

If he does see that

[runic dock]

Luffy may have to fight Loki in demon form in this arc already , he starts off as ally side character then maybe turns anti hero or something , idk how his time with bb pirates would go , I can’t see that far in the future , maybe he would end up not liking it there and turn into traitor to bb down the road

[sage temple]

Loki can still work with BB as an equal

[lofty fern]

"mentally aligned" doesn't mean that somehow through mental osmosis that Loki now knows everything Rocks probably spent years studying. Seeing the HKs does not in anyway mean that you can suddenly guess or figure out about Imu. The knights are public figures. A lot of people know about them and still no one knows about Imu. You're trying to make Loki jump to conclusions he can't possibly have all the pieces for. He doesn't even really understand what happened to his own father.

[sage temple]

Just like the theory where Luffy would temp side with BB

[ocean sigil]

BTW Shanks found the water fruit here

[latent hamlet]

Could be as simple as "devil fruit magic make fire in throat go brrr"

[sage temple]

That doesn't mean Luffy would FOLLOW BB

[steel stirrup]

They are in a closed off nation

But one trip to Hachinosu and they'll see the slaves

[runic dock]

Luffy doesn’t have to know about Roger’s life to inherit his will

Hello?

[hasty sable]

Loki is just going to be an arc character who shows up for the final war. Like Yamato.

[runic dock]

That’s like missing the whole point

[sage temple]

BB isn't even at Hachinosu right now he's likely on a mission to do something else

They don't have to meet at Hachi

[runic dock]

Luffy never had to do mental osmosis to figure out Roger’s life to follow Roger’s will

[sage temple]

[hasty sable]

Loki: “And that’s what happened to Harald and Rocks…”
Luffy: “How did you know the parts you weren’t there for?”

[steel stirrup]

Yea but thats his base of operations

If Loki ends up working alongside BB its likely he'll end up there at some point

[regal coral]

Loki and yamato doin an ikoku sovereignty would be peak

[runic dock]

“Obi wan Kenobi told me “

[hasty sable]

Yeah I think Loki will probably be an honorary straw hat like Yamato

[sage temple]

Yeah that'll probably be AFTER they complete the big parts of their plan

[hasty sable]

He won’t side with Blackbeard. If anything I think Loki will hate Blackbeard.

[hasty sable]

Because he really isn’t anything like Rocks

[lofty fern]

Dragon's not going to get his fruit here 😭
Maybe Garling gets pissed and enslaves Dragon for what he did and retribution for losing Shakky and Dragon is forced to eat a DF that way?

[runic dock]

Loki is highly impressionable , even if he should hate bb he won’t realize it

He will join bb and betray him later

[sage temple]

I personally don't have a concrete view of something like that but ruling it out completely doesn't quite make sense

[hasty sable]

I think he will admire Luffy instead because Luffy actually is a lot like Rocks

[sage temple]

There are theories where Luffy will side with BB because he must

[ocean sigil]

What if Saturn makes a fruit for Dragon???

[sage temple]

Or Loki will side with BB because they share the same goal

They have the same enemy

[hasty sable]

Luffy will in effect accomplish the same goal as Rocks also

[runic dock]

He doesn’t have to be , bb will use his silver tongue tho

[hasty sable]

Luffy and Loki share the same enemy

[steel stirrup]

Ngl all this shit Imu is capable off i dont see us beating this mf without having to team up with someone we usually wouldn't

[pulsar path]

I mean it's just one scenario I could see playing out. Loki eats the fruit when Imu is trying to get his hands on it and Harold

[sage temple]

True they could also work together

[runic dock]

Well nah hold up , this also goes into the theory that bb and luffy team up against imu

They ALL align

[hasty sable]

Loki is smart enough to figure out that Blackbeard is a giant grifter

[sage temple]

Oh alr that makes sense

[ocean sigil]

Did we hear an attack name of WB before?

[urban lodge]

Shattering void

[hasty sable]

Blackbeard will align with them only so long as he can kill Imu and then steal
Everything for himself

[runic dock]

Idk about that one , there’s a lot of hope riding on this statement

[runic dock]

Exactly

[vernal ravine]

no, in marineford he forgot

[trim lily]

wb kinda sucks at coming up with attack names huh

[runic dock]

Now we talking

[steel stirrup]

Hell nah

[ornate tartan]

Blackbeard and Luffy do NOT have the same interests😂

[ocean sigil]

Not even when Oden attacked him?

[lofty fern]

Yes, but will doesn't mean I suddenly know everything Roger knows or I know every term he used and thus understand it. Loki can admire Rocks and even see his father DRd and still have no idea who Imu is and what he can do. You can't just jump to that without showing Loki either maybe reading Rocks journal or talking to Rocks about it, we need more than just what we have to come to that conclusion.
Not every mention of "the world" in the story is going to be about Imu.

[runic dock]

He gave up after his first try

[urban lodge]

Yeah this is the first one

[runic dock]

[urban lodge]

First Rocks one too

[trim lily]

he made the right choice

[steel stirrup]

Nu uh

[urban lodge]

And last lol

[ocean sigil]

Damn

[trim lily]

oh the rocks one was pandemonium

[lofty fern]

I don't think Saturn can make a fruit

[trim lily]

a name like that made me think it’d be imu’s

[steel stirrup]

Which means WB wasnt fighting Akainu seriously

He didnt use a single named attack

[runic dock]

Well we shall see how the rest of the flashback goes , still need the Harald incident , half my thoughts are from assuming how Harald incident will go

[hasty sable]

I also do think Loki is a good character to show the difference between Xebec and Teach. The same feeling will simply not be there for Loki because he knows Teach isn’t authentic like Rocks. He’s greedy and a charlatan. Not a revolutionary like Xebec.

[steel stirrup]

What a lovely day

[formal wagon]

akainu didn't use named attacks either

[steel stirrup]

Cap

[hasty sable]

Rocks was the strongest man in the world and used that strength towards an end that liberated the world from tyranny. Blackbeard is a schemer that wants to sit at the top himself.

[runic dock]

He would have to learn that as he goes , he wouldn’t know that about bb instantly

Unless shanks has been whispering sweet nothings into his ears

[lofty fern]

Didn't he?

[sage temple]

That is true

But its still an option ig

[tranquil blade]

He did

[regal coral]

Narrator: "He did."

[formal wagon]

i don't actually know lol

[runic dock]

Thanks for including Shiki

We appreciate you

[formal wagon]

😭 how'd you have that ready

[ornate tartan]

there is absolutely 0% chance Loki joins Blackbeard

[trim lily]

0 is a bit much

[runic dock]

There is 0 chance of anything happening that I don’t like

That’s how this works

[tranquil blade]

I saw your message and immediately was like "that's such a lie" and googled the page

[sage temple]

[ornate tartan]

no i’m actually serious

[sage temple]

Never forget

[regal coral]

Yea he already told luffy he wouldn't be his subordinate

[trim lily]

if kid was here loki would be a good fit on his crew

[runic dock]

Saying zero is kind of being blind to certain things but ok

[trim lily]

he’d just need to learn some music references

[sage temple]

https://tenor.com/view/game-club-fish-penguin-fishing-gif-18077765825755482847

[tranquil blade]

I'm afraid Kid would have to be Loki's crew member not the other way around

[runic dock]

He’d mistake him for rocks himself

[hasty sable]

Kid is stronger than Loki imo

[tranquil blade]

or one of them would have to be a vice captain

[runic dock]

Yooooo what lmao

[wet condor]

Loki has a decent chance of having ACoC

[regal coral]

Nice bait mate

[tranquil blade]

If Oda was good this would be true

[wet condor]

So right now I'll say Loki

[ornate tartan]

Oda isn’t going to build up the nation of Elbaph and the importance of the giants to Nika, and Luffy and Loki dynamic for Loki to turn around and join Blackbeard who is an antagonist and most importantly doesn’t even know Teach personally. Do you know how random this would be?😂😂

[formal wagon]

was this unnamed?

[sage temple]

It's almost confirmed atp

[wet condor]

But if Kidd had it too then I'd be unsure

[urban lodge]

Loki has it for sure

[tranquil blade]

but I'm afraid Archer

[trim lily]

loki can be vice vice captain under killer

[hasty sable]

People only sleep on Kid because the Shanks humiliation was too great lmao

Yes I think he would defeat Loki

[tranquil blade]

Yes

[urban lodge]

He said he couldn't verbalize his power or something after Gaban mentioned conquerors

So he has it

[wet condor]

Yeah

[trim lily]

he might yeah

[wet condor]

So I think he has it

[trim lily]

we dunno how strong loki actually is

[jade rain]

Who kidd?

[formal wagon]

akainu could do more damage tbh

[runic dock]

It depends how things play out , at this exact point in time it might be random yes , but I don’t think things will stay static like this in terms of relationships as the arc progresses

[formal wagon]

if he wanted to

[runic dock]

And story

[hasty sable]

Kid didn’t get a 3 billion bounty to be slept on like this

[formal wagon]

luckily akainu values human life, unlike whitebeard

[wet condor]

I mean Loki wouldn't beat him easily

[sage temple]

Loki likely-ly has ACoC, CoC, CoO, CoA,and ACoA

[hasty sable]

He wouldn’t beat him at all

[wet condor]

It'd be high diff

[runic dock]

Loki was out at sea and only the strongest character in the series (shanks) could bring him back

[sage temple]

Loki might even have future sight ngl

[tranquil blade]

If Kid could use CoC (I know he has it) then I think he would be able to win

[wet condor]

Same

[hasty sable]

I also bounty scale

[urban lodge]

Kid will probably return, but the thing is this is Wano Oda we're talking about here with the bounty

[hasty sable]

[tranquil blade]

Bountyscaling is kinda inconsistent cause Oda is a hack

[sage temple]

L bait though

Also bountyscaling makes no sense if Loki's bounty was given over 5 years ago

[hasty sable]

Shanks probably did Loki in with one hit critical KO just like he did Eustass

[runic dock]

Can croc defeat katakuri?

[tranquil blade]

Well he's been chained up for all of those 6 years

[urban lodge]

We still don't know why Loki's bounty is special too, but I imagine it has to do with his fruit

[runic dock]

[sage temple]

I hope we see Loki's DF this fb

[hasty sable]

I’m not baiting I do think Kid is stronger than Loki

[sage temple]

It's gonna be legendary for sure

[ornate tartan]

Kid?😂😂

[sage temple]

Archer in that case you're js wrong but keep thinking that if you want

[tranquil blade]

I wouldn't mind it, but I don't have any faith in Oda

[hasty sable]

I think Shanks literally had just as easy a time taking out Loki as Kid lol.

[deep chasm]

maybe to do with the fact they want him to be a holy knight and or want the giants on their side?

[sage temple]

Anyways Loki's fruit imo has to be a zoan to complete the trio

[runic dock]

It depends how loki vs shanks went , we can get a direct confirmation on this , if he one tapped loki you may have ground to stand on

[hasty sable]

Shanks is just him

[runic dock]

If anything more then you don’t

[hasty sable]

He definitely one tapped Loki

[urban lodge]

Could be

[sage temple]

It might as well be bait

[deep chasm]

dunno how kid and loki compare exactly, but Id expect them to be similar

[sage temple]

He isn't supporting his claim with anything im crine 😭

[sage temple]

Based off what

[vale heath]

https://tenor.com/view/nether-portal-minecraft-portal-cool-gif-21449671

[formal wagon]

hope you feel better soon ❤️

[wet condor]

There's no way Kidd gets smoked man

[hasty sable]

There’s literally nothing to suggest Loki is stronger than Kid lol. It’s just because Kid got humiliated by Shanks that people say that.

[wet condor]

I'd be very surprised

[deep chasm]

not much, we know very little about lokis strength rn as far as Im aware

[tranquil blade]

I've seen people say Loki is weaker than Kid and I've seen people say he's stronger than Kaido

[sage temple]

My butt hairs make me feel like Otama is stronger than Luffy

[deep chasm]

ok

[runic dock]

Kid needed help and doesn’t even have acoc and got one tapped by shanks when shanks most likely didn’t even one tap loki I bet , so

[jade rain]

If Loki 1v1 defeated domi reversied harold then there is no way he is

[frozen ravine]

I don't think gaban would hype up Kidd that much

[formal wagon]

🟪🟪
🟪🟪
🟪🟪

[sage temple]

[wet condor]

If they both had ACoC then it's p much dead even

[deep chasm]

this seems like it stems from yall thinking kid is weak

kid aint weak tho so

[runic dock]

Judging from how much she controlled on the battlefield

[hasty sable]

Hello? Harald was killed before Loki even got there

[runic dock]

You may be right socrates

[ornate tartan]

Kid is Domi Reversi Harald level or even remotely close to it?

[formal wagon]

Eustass beats loki cause i like him more

[hasty sable]

Yes, I am lol

[sage temple]

This stems from you thinking you can estimate Loki's strength after him only losing to the strongest pirate alive rn

[deep chasm]

Kidd needed help vs big mom and I believe loki would too. Acoc shouldnt be needed to fight loki and I could believe shanks one tapping loki so

[sage temple]

Anyways I hope Loki completes the trio

I need a zoan

A myth zoan in fact

[deep chasm]

Id love to find out how the interaction went cuz I doubt loki is domi reversi harald level rn too

[runic dock]

Nah this isn’t confirmed , we just see Harald stabbed up when he got there , Harald could just flex this off him if he’s already in the middle of domi reversi

[hasty sable]

Kid is actually crazy powerful in the story. He just gets a string of abysmal luck and bites off more than he can chew. Also used as a punching bag to make Shanks look cool.

[runic dock]

This is false

[vale heath]

Zoan piece

[deep chasm]

I literally explained to you we dont know lokis strength much. He could be stronger, but we dont know it much, so why is it crazy if hes just kids level

[ornate tartan]

even if he isn’t he’s very relative
this is almost a fact

no one other then jarul and the guards were there, shanks and gaban arrived at the end

[runic dock]

Acoc is probably need to fight him ngl

[hasty sable]

And Kid isn’t my favorite character either so I say this from a place of non-bias

[deep chasm]

I dont think loki is on par with rocks

[urban lodge]

Cursed ass fruit

[wraith mantle]

kid is luffy

[urban lodge]

Poor John

[hasty sable]

He could beat Loki

[wraith mantle]

without plot armor

[sage temple]

Because you don't know his strength you're pulling that out of your butthole

😭

[trim lily]

people love to treat kid as leagues weaker than luffy and law cause he lost to shanks

[deep chasm]

again would love to see what happened rather than assume loki is as strong as rocks

[ornate tartan]

nah i meant Harald

[deep chasm]

doo you read

[formal wagon]

😔

[tranquil blade]

I don't see Kid as an equal to Luffy but I do think he's still really powerful

[wet condor]

Luffy is not trying to get hit with one of those gatling/minigun Damned Punks lol

[sage temple]

You're still basing that off of absolutely nothing

[deep chasm]

so you think loki is on par with rocks if youre saying he beat someone whos usually as strong as rocks

[sage temple]

You haven't taken account Loki's feats

[urban lodge]

You know it's bad when Sb posted this before unironically

[deep chasm]

do you read words carefully

[steel stirrup]

BB could've been another Rocks but he never had the chance

[runic dock]

A whole lot of nothing being said in the chat rn

[frigid gulch]

Oda is a coward when it comes to Rocks tho

He’s practically good

[alpine trench]

https://tenor.com/view/b-lou-zias-funny-meme-b-lou-typing-gif-16386530904561748567

[frigid gulch]

[glass plume]

Blackbeard should cut down on the cherry pies

[trim lily]

blackbeard basically is another rocks already

[ornate tartan]

yeah maybe not as strong but relative at worst
If he does good against Domi Reversi Harald and actually kills him when we see the castle incident, then he is actually superior

[sage temple]

Yes ask if I can read instead of giving a tangible response please I love talking like this you sure are the goat laww

[urban lodge]

Very weirdly presented character

[tranquil blade]

He could've been another Rocks if he didnt participate in the slave trade and actually didnt wanna be a tyrant

[runic dock]

Nah he did crimes wg can’t even talk about so we don’t talk about them

[deep chasm]

ok so youre saying rocks is equal to harald, and so loki is relative at worse to rocks

[frigid gulch]

His motivation for becoming King of the World is probably some noble shit

[hasty sable]

We are probably meant to see Kid as closer to a rival for Luffy just based on the fact they all three had a hand in taking our emperors and received the same bounty. Luffy just gets the edge because he’s a literal manifestation of freedom god

[brazen prawn]

Bb has blood of rocks but don't have what it takes too be rocks

[deep chasm]

youre welcome thats all you deserve when you just glaze loki without any real thought

[runic dock]

Is this some kind of reverse cope? Are you ok lmao

[ornate tartan]

yeah narratively this should be the case
but also could end up being wrong, after I see the castle incident i think we will have a better idea

[deep chasm]

Okay so I dont believe that , thats it

[steel stirrup]

Ain't that what I just said?

[frigid gulch]

I’m serious

[brazen prawn]

Loki i want too see how strong is heee

[runic dock]

I think you’re coping with his presentation lol

[deep chasm]

when we see the castle incident I believe it will be revealed loki is not actually relative to rocks lol

[runic dock]

He’s clearly done bad stuff

[sage temple]

I glaze Loki without any real thought because I ask you to support what you say with any example at all

[runic dock]

And isn’t afraid of doing bad things

[sage temple]

Perfect reasoning laww

[glass plume]

he definitely isn't, given Shanks beat him some years after

[urban lodge]

But Oda doesn't show any of it except the Loki thing

[trim lily]

with how strong rocks is shown to be i think itd be silly for anyone on this island to be close to him right now

[deep chasm]

because ive seen you talk about loki before

[tranquil blade]

If Loki is relative to Rocks then literally every emperor surpassed Rocks too including Luffy

[frigid gulch]

It’s not really cope. He has but it’s really not that great in amount

[sage temple]

Holy mackrel you're a genius

[hasty sable]

I’d say that the fundamental difference between father and son is that, for Xebec, becoming king of the world is to free the world from Imu, and for Teach, killing Imu is to become king of the world. Blackbeard is a funhouse mirror of Xebec’s noble ambition presented from a self-absorbed perspective.

[deep chasm]

this as well lol

[ornate tartan]

who’s to say shanks isn’t stronger then Xebec or Roger during the time of god valley

[deep chasm]

thanks buddy

[runic dock]

He told us a lot thru narration , showed him harming a child for no reason , and showed him killing his own family , something a lot of good guys would bitch out on

Keep coping tho

[frigid gulch]

You’ll bring up the narrator but that’s exactly the point

[trim lily]

i guess he could be

[runic dock]

No dude lmao

[frigid gulch]

Yes

[steel stirrup]

Lying ass nigga

[sage temple]

That's completely irrelevant to this conversation. Because I enjoy talking about Loki means everything I say is indefinitely incorrect no matter what and I don't deserve reasoning behind anything 💔

[trim lily]

but i really doubt loki is nearly as strong as like big mom or kaido lmao

[runic dock]

Read my reply to penny

[hasty sable]

I don’t think Xebec is presented weirdly when you consider that the enemy he’s fighting is so much worse. He’s not a pure character but he is a true revolutionary at the end of the day.

[runic dock]

Read

[deep chasm]

so shanks>rocks=harald who is relative to loki

[deep chasm]

that wasnt the point lol

[runic dock]

@frigid gulch

[wet condor]

He clearly feels like a better option than Imu

[runic dock]

Yall need to stop coping fr

[tranquil blade]

If Loki is relative to Rocks it'd make Rocks easily the most overrated pirate in history in terms of strength at least

[sage temple]

God forbid I speak about a character. Oh nooo. Don't you dare do that in the presence of 85% Laww {CG/C4N}

[frigid gulch]

It’s an insufficient reply. The Loki thing sure, I’m not saying he’s a saint. The family thing? They were tryna attack him and would’ve also converted him into a demon, he had no choice to put them down

[deep chasm]

why are you so upset

[wet condor]

Well he killed his own family because they were attacking him and trying to kill his other family lol. I don't look at that as being particularly bad

[urban lodge]

Listen I do agree they're bad things, I just don't think Oda wants us to think of it too deeply, or we'd dwell on it more. Oda is going out of his way to make him as cool and likeable as possible

[runic dock]

If you’re only talking about the narration you’re being disingenuous , it’s clearly all those things put together , if it’s not enough for you it’s a personal problem I guess

[digital spear]

sandbag argument

[hasty sable]

Rocks is slightly evil as a treat. He’s obviously meant to be far more good than bad though.

[sage temple]

Anyway I feel like saying he is Rocks level right this second is still a bit of a stretch

[wet condor]

Intellectually understanding Rocks isn't that bad but just doesn't hit quite the same as actually seeing him do heinous shit

[trim lily]

if oda wanted to make us think rocks was a bad guy he'd actually show us him doing bad things

[runic dock]

Did you read my last part there? A lot of good guys bitch out on doing this

They simply don’t

[trim lily]

but we've seen more of a sympathetic and good side of him than the opposite

[wet condor]

I know they would

[runic dock]

And find other ways

So he’s not good

[deep chasm]

oda wants us to think rocks is a good person, its kjust he also previously showed rocks doing bad things

[glass plume]

i mean, he did give us a whole page where it says the crimes that he has commited

[wet condor]

But I still don't view it as being that bad lol

[frigid gulch]

But you’re assuming I’m only talking about that. I referenced what he did to Loki and I just addressed the family part. I’m considering all that

[wet condor]

It's self-defense

[ornate tartan]

or maybe it would just mean Loki is the strongest or one of the strongest members of the strongest race in One Piece

[trim lily]

yes but the key word is showing

[frigid gulch]

With the narrator

[sage temple]

Who's, mine?

[hasty sable]

Even Xebec’s death will be treated as a tragedy akin to Oden or some shit

[glass plume]

all of this for example

[trim lily]

you can say a lot, but showing it is important in a visual medium

[deep chasm]

oda wanted us to think rocks was bad, but then realize he was good

[steel stirrup]

I think its to show how the WG spread propaganda even amongst their own ranks

[warm falcon]

nah, we have already too much snakes

[tranquil blade]

He loses to every emperor not named Buggy so no

[deep chasm]

however well oda did that is a different question

[digital spear]

yeah. strawman was the word

[wet condor]

Showing instead of telling is always better to get the point across, yeah

[proud pivot]

Rocks isn't evil, He is chaotic neutral, Blackbeard is Chaotic evil while Imu is authoritarian evil

[glass plume]

i'd say the narration is as important, given that Oda doesn't have time to show everything

[runic dock]

Again , every traditional good guy in fiction never chooses the kill their own family option no matter how easy it is to solve the problem

He’s a bad person

That’s it

[frigid gulch]

No lol

There’s a nuance here

[brazen prawn]

It was world govt lies not oda says it's true

[deep chasm]

thats also just some finctional stories being ass lol

[trim lily]

he clearly had time to show us rocks' silly shenanigans at home and him raiding a nation that was actually a bunch of scammers

[frigid gulch]

He noted that everyone who got caught by the demons were “converted”

[deep chasm]

you cant make that a case of him being bad cuz other stories cant handle writing a good character whos not naive

[frigid gulch]

And they were going after him

[sage temple]

God forbid I ask him for evidence to support what he's saying apologies YC

[runic dock]

No there isn’t , not in fiction when this shit always plays out the same , the good guys let themselves die or get hurt more and find other cheap ways around this , not kill their own family

[deep chasm]

the issue with rocks being good is his piracy shit and beating up loki

[frigid gulch]

Why would he allow them to convert him into a demon?

[deep chasm]

thats the fault of those other authors

[glass plume]

well even with the scammers, the Rocks pirates didn't know they were bad people, so they wouldn't care if they were good or not they'd still go through with it

[runic dock]

Yeah but I’m talking in reference to that very common trope lol

[trim lily]

like yeah rocks has obviously done bad things but we dont see most of them

[glass plume]

it's not like they did it because they were scammers

[sage temple]

That is tru snakes are like all over the place in OP 😭

We have a whole island for those things

[deep chasm]

that doesnt change that someone breaking the trope doesnt mean they must be evil

[hazy spade]

luffy gave loki a chance cmon, we already know he's not a villain

[deep chasm]

its just other stories choose to make the character naive

you can be good and not be naive

[digital spear]

your execution is set for tomorrow 3 pm

[trim lily]

but why go through the effort of covering for him then? if he wasnt aware then whats the point of making it better in retrospect

[runic dock]

By itself sure , but we’re talking about all these things compiled together

[sage temple]

[grand flower]

Rocks is rotten for being willing to hurt loki the way he did

[runic dock]

Stop singling out every one event he did

[warm falcon]

but the loki's power is truly essential to kil lImu

[eternal viper]

Yeah he's not a villain, just an immature guy

[deep chasm]

youre literally the one doing that

[hasty sable]

No pure revolutionaries. I mean Rocks did all of this, but look at what he’s fighting against lol

[frigid gulch]

Obviously he’s not letting himself die. He has his family to meet up with. This is more of a self defense thing here

[glass plume]

i think that Oda did this because he wants us to see the reason for why Loki could admire him

[sage temple]

Yeah I agree

[deep chasm]

Ive said already if you discuss him attacking loki or the crimes as a pirate thats more fair

[warm falcon]

to kill Imu

[runic dock]

No im compiling all the bad shit he’s ever done and saying he’s bad lmao

[warm falcon]

ofc

[glass plume]

this is set up as the explanation for why Loki is like he is, and who his Shanks was

[ornate tartan]

If Loki fights Demon Harald 1v1 while Roger and Garp fought Demon Xebec 2v1 how would this work from a portrayal standpoint for Loki

Jarul got hit with a sword in the head and taken out before he could do anything as we saw in Ch 1152

[sage temple]

Oh that yh

[trim lily]

but that isnt why loki admires him, loki admires him for his strength and freedom

[deep chasm]

ok so Im saying him killing demons who used to be his family doesnt help your point. But yes there are other things such as him beating up loki that makes him bad

[sage temple]

I think he's the only person on the island other than Luffy that can consistently keep up with Imu's fighting

[runic dock]

Luffy for example would try to save every single one of them

[hasty sable]

Worth mentioning that Rocks is also the only one trying to do something about the World Government at this point

[glass plume]

yes which is 90% of his character, lol

[brazen prawn]

Yeah

[wet condor]

I do think Loki admires the carnage

[sage temple]

Cap

[hot helm]

new born loki = yonko kaido's introduction
(feat wise)

[sage temple]

Rocks has done no wrong

[glass plume]

Loki would admire Xebec no matter what his ambition is

[sage temple]

He's a true saint

[eternal viper]

that's true, but you also can't forget his own motives. Even if he is doing good things that doesn't justify all the bad he has done and wants to do

[grand flower]

He was also more brutal in the Davy back fights than he needed to be

[deep chasm]

so you got loki above roger btw?

[wet condor]

In some capacity. There is probably some admiration that is based on strength alone

[hot helm]

except uhh wait you're actually right

[runic dock]

Some would say more of a saint than kuma , by how they’re talking

[hasty sable]

I think God Valley shows that it really isn’t about doing it solely for himself. He is disgusted by the notion that the world belongs to Imu.

[frigid gulch]

He would probably try ye. But he also wouldn’t let them get close to him if he’s seen what happened prior like Rocks did. That’s pretty much the double edged sword with Reversi

[glass plume]

oh yeah for sure, Loki seems to care a lot for that specifically given his mentality all his life

like looking down on the other giants for being physically weaker than him

[brazen prawn]

What bad he done there is nothing like this mentioned in manga

[wet condor]

I can see Loki having some respect for a guy just off him being incredibly strong

[tranquil blade]

He doesn't like the idea of a single tyrannical figure ruling the world

[sage temple]

Ngl Kuma DID give his body up as a model for genocide and mass destruction

[runic dock]

I guess so , wow domi reversi is such a nuanced ability it makes a bad guy seem neutral

[tranquil blade]

but would he apply that same standard to himself is the question

[grand flower]

Rocks has a callous disregard for human life that arent his pals

[glass plume]

yeah that's probably it, but i'd like if it was something more than just unga bunga

[hot helm]

mommy issues tends to do that

[ornate tartan]

nah i’m not jumping to conclusions

i have to see what happens for the rest of the flashback

mainly whether roger and garp vs xebec fight actually happens or it’s a different scenario

[runic dock]

Trueeeee good point

[eternal viper]

yeah and he was clearly trying to manipulate Harald

[sage temple]

Every single port, town, and nation he destroyed was evil

That was self defense

[vernal ravine]

not by his will

[icy wolf]

i really dont think rocks is dead

[eternal viper]

lol

[sage temple]

Looks like he needs a stronger will then 🤷‍♂️

[hazy spade]

I mean, they would make pacifistas anyways..... at least he could save his child

[hasty sable]

To me it’s the exact same thing as Roger’s dying words and legacy. Yes, he kickstarted a global crime wave like the world had never seen before - but he also started a revolution that will save the world. Xebec is much the same in that regard and I do think Roger was inspired by Rocks in that same way.

[sage temple]

L Haki

[glass plume]

why wouldn't he be?

[icy wolf]

why would imu kill rocks instead of keeping him as a minion

[glass plume]

Imu told you this chapter, lol

their world is incomplete with Xebec in it

[fallen meteor]

Hello you forgot

[tranquil blade]

because Imu isn't the one to kill Rocks

Roger and Garp are most likely

[icy wolf]

maybe without him being reversed

[runic dock]

Nah Roger just felt like the C in an A and B conversation and he didn’t want to feel left out so he went searching for clues

[glass plume]

Imu wants all of the Davy D. gone

that much is clear

no matter if they're on their side or not

[brittle basin]

Viz tomorrow

[hasty sable]

Roger will kill Rocks on his request imo

[eternal viper]

Imu doesn't need him as a minion, and assumedly they are just going to use Rocks as bait so they can leave while garp and roger fight him

[urban lodge]

I hate it but probably

[brazen prawn]

Well they could be world govt island or something related to them not much information is provided there

[glass plume]

definitely

[ornate tartan]

All Ik about the castle incident is

113 Giant guards got killed(whether it’s by Demon Harald or Loki like everyone says in the story still isn’t clear)

Jarul gets a sword in his head immediately, and probably wouldn’t have been that much help since Jorul got cooked by 5 yo Big Mom

Shanks and Gaban arrive late, so it most likely was Loki vs Harald in a 1v1

[wet condor]

There's more to it I think. He wouldn't respect guys that he deems as being too soft in spite of being strong. He says as much about his father. How much of that he means, who knows. Deep down I think he loves his dad but he's stated that he doesn't respect his peaceful ways or how he's trying to change Elbaf's culture

[vernal ravine]

the funny thing is they later allow teach to enter the warlords like he doesn't look exactly like xebec

[glass plume]

this is probably directly after Imu orders Rocks to kill Eris and Teech

[brittle basin]

This is where I'm at.

[eternal viper]

there is no way for you to try and reason that all of those places didn't have a single innocent person or bystander on it

especially towns

lol

[urban lodge]

Knowing Oda...

[glass plume]

yeah that could be

[tranquil blade]

So we know Roger and Garp are likely gonna fight Xebec, but what about Whitebeard, Big Mom and Kaido? Are they just gonna leave?

[urban lodge]

Couldn't even let the guy steal without making the guys he was stealing from bad

[deep chasm]

yea but again then you arrive at loki>roger or even rocks and do you believe that

[glass plume]

they will probably be against the rest of the God Knights

[hasty sable]

The giants choosing appeasement over conquest is what Loki despises and it’s also that appeasement that ultimately killed Harald

[sage temple]

This makes Rocks even more of a good person

🥹

[hot helm]

WB a loyal mf ain't no way he gon ditch, linlin? probably, and as for kaido i doubt he'll run either

[hasty sable]

Yes Rocks is a hero

[eternal viper]

I could be wrong but before this flashback wasn't it mentioned that the crew "betrayed" him? If so then I'd assume they would either leave or fight him

[glass plume]

tell that to the 14 ports he reduced to ash

[sage temple]

Rocks is gods gift for the future

[glass plume]

or the 5 towns he wiped off the map

[digital spear]

evil ports

evil towns

[hasty sable]

Probably government forts and towns.

[urban lodge]

God I hate him

[brittle basin]

corrupt everything. Wocks.

[tranquil blade]

Rocks is pretty fitting of the term anti-hero, or anti-villain, but he's not a pure hero or a pure villain

[eternal viper]

Those evil towns filled with children and the elderly

[winter oasis]

rocks is as much of an anti-hero as roger is, which is to say he isnt

[hasty sable]

There are no pure revolutions

[ornate tartan]

yes, I think he will end up being stronger then both

his weapon and devil fruit also give him an edge that Harald didnt have, Loki will end up being the strongest ancient giant in history

[brittle basin]

evil children surely

[digital spear]

genuinely the one place we saw the Rocks Pirates destroy, Oda made sure the people were corrupt lol

[frigid gulch]

Based

[deep chasm]

and just strongest person ever outside of imu and joyboy?

[brazen prawn]

Well they say they destroy island not kill people he's not that kinda guy soo far in the manga till today though he even care for his family the most
Well it is possible though others hurt the innocent people bcz that grp was barbarous and no unification and much trust and they don't follow every order just grp of individual so it is possible though for individuals too do that now what you say

[glass plume]

i don't hate him, i just dislike the lengths people will go to justify him

[urban lodge]

The thing is even Oda does that to an extent

[ornate tartan]

nah that’s going too far

[hasty sable]

Once again, look at what he is fighting

[winter oasis]

this is where you lose the plot with this

[brittle basin]

Sorry, folks, Rocks is just cool like that. 😎

[fast basalt]

who be this

[eternal viper]

I just don't understand how people are being blind to bro doing bad things, Like it's fine to have a character be nuanced, and not be completely a saint

[deep chasm]

but thats what that would be. In this case hes stronger than domi reversi harald, so hes stronger than rocks, roger, whitebeard, and everyone else besides imu and joyboy

[winter oasis]

if rocks is nuanced, does that make sengoku a nazi

[eternal viper]

it's funny cause people keep bring up world government propoganda, when people are making real life Rock's propoganda lol

[sage temple]

Just thinking about them makes me cringe in disgust

They deserve deaht

[brittle basin]

Sengoku is naturally harder to justify his actions right?

[sage temple]

Rocks restored order

[hasty sable]

I think if you hyperfixate a pirate doing pirate thing you are straight up missing the point that he is literally doing all of this to fight empire

[urban lodge]

It's nuance, sure, I just think it's done poorly

[digital spear]

balancing out

[brazen prawn]

Well yo can't be saint and demon lord at the same time you have to sacrifice something

[glass plume]

it's still bad stuff, lol

[sage temple]

Why is Sengoku not on God Valley

[eternal viper]

exactly

[tranquil blade]

Sengoku is nuanced to a degree but he is realistically still a pretty bad guy in reality

[sage temple]

Is Sengoku scared?

[digital spear]

scared

[ashen perch]

theres gonna be a lot of people fighting the WG/Imu, possibly the entire planet including former antagonists. I don't think him being better than them is a high bar to clear

[storm anvil]

mfs will smoke you for both being and not being in god valley 💔

[glass plume]

just because Imu is the literal devil, doesn't make Rocks a super hero

Roger isn't a super hero either

[hasty sable]

I think it’s pretty cool that Oda doesn’t shy away from Xebec being messy like this. It’s why I also liked Sabo taking credit for murdering Cobra since it fueled the revolution.

[vernal ravine]

he wasn't that strong

[brittle basin]

Rocks is chaotic good to me

[digital spear]

LOL

[eternal viper]

Exactly, he's not a saint. And he's not the most evil pirate in history. He's complex

[deep chasm]

well whos saying rocks is a super hero

[glass plume]

chaotic neutral

[winter oasis]

sengoku maintains order in the world through evil action, while also being personable and not acting rash in individual situations as akainu would; he's basically lawful evil. rocks is just chaotic good

[tranquil blade]

Do you mean to say both are heroic, or that neither are heroic at all?

[urban lodge]

You'd be surprised Laww

[proud pivot]

neutral

[deep chasm]

hes meant to be considered good but he has bad to him too

[brittle basin]

yeah i saw that options thrown around too. can't really argue with it

[glass plume]

i've seen plenty, lol

[brazen prawn]

I think he's character is just hype he was nowhere in the main fights and scenes always telling lie stories like old grandpa

[eternal viper]

half of the community

[runic dock]

Practicing for his desk job

[winter oasis]

that sengoku is an actual example of a nuanced character in the story, or kuzan, and that rocks being a pirate doesn't tip him towards evil even close to enough to register him as nuanced

[glass plume]

i've even seen people say that Rocks was right for hurting Loki since he "saved" him somehow

it's crazy...

[brittle basin]

the real question i have is: did Rocks want the world because he wanted to hurt people with an iron fist? Or did he think he could do a more righteous job than Imu? Was there some level of simple revenge to it in regards to Davy Jones?

[brazen prawn]

Now you get my point bro 👍🏻👍🏻

[deep chasm]

that is in fact crazy

[ashen perch]

I will wait for Roger to stab a child to make an equivalence between them

[proud pivot]

Rocks is just better written, more enjoyable and extremely strong with the best resume in the entire verse, that's why People call him good lol, he ain't exactly good, stabbing a kid like loki isn't a good trait

[sage temple]

How did Sengoku even become a fleet admiral

[runic dock]

Bro what lmao , yeah harming him randomly when he first appeared didn’t do anything like that

Convos did that later

[trim lily]

sengoku is a bit of a weird character in that i think oda made him a bit too chill post ts

[runic dock]

[glass plume]

it's still messed up

[brittle basin]

No Rocks hurt Loki. Twice. That's not up for debate.

[glass plume]

that people are willing to justify hurting a kid

[sage temple]

Well there's a few things that make Rocks hurting Loki a little less bad

[ashen perch]

Rocks stabs children, Roger's enemies say that he is as pure and straightforward as a child. No wonder they were enemies

[sage temple]

It was self defense for 1

[hard brook]

Actually true

[winter oasis]

i think it's perfectly reasonable for him to be chill and resigned, in a personal and immediate sense, while still holding the generally evil beliefs he does societally. it's honestly realistic lol

[glass plume]

if you're going to try to justify it, I don't want to hear it

[eternal viper]

He kind of feels like worse garp to me tbh, like he has the most inaction of any marine

[ruby moat]

Ppl are willing to justify rocks leveling entire towns lol

[deep chasm]

brotha said self defense

[brittle basin]

The best you can say is "Rocks knew Loki was a giant and was confident his attack would not hurt him too badly" But then he stabs him later, so?

[brazen prawn]

Who knows he's mystry more than even burn scar guy 😂

[glass plume]

i'm not interested in hearing how it's a "little less bad" when the context is hurting a kid

[sage temple]

Genuinely how do you know those towns weren't bad

[trim lily]

I guess I hoped to see him reflect on his past a bit more

[sage temple]

?

[urban lodge]

I don't think he's better written in any aspect, he's just more likeable

[deep chasm]

yea man this toddler was gonna punch me it was self defense

[urban lodge]

Sengoku is just as effective as a character

[runic dock]

Even then , it still hurt loki

[tranquil blade]

I would agree that yeah most of Xebec's actions are overall good enough that he isn't super nuanced, idk if that was intentional on Oda's part or not but it feels like we're supposed to see Xebec as not really that "evil"

[sage temple]

Yeah this 500 ton 200 meter tall toddler was about to decimate me

😭

[deep chasm]

right because height matters in one piece

[frigid gulch]

Xebec could’ve dodged the punch

[sage temple]

Mfs talk about kid Loki like he isn't a skyscraper tall

[brittle basin]

I just view him as chaotic at the core in that he has some kind of ambition (that I assume is good from his POV) and he will do whatever (chaos) to achieve it.

[ruby moat]

lol see this is what I mean like the mental gymnastics u gotta do to be like “hmmm yea the entire town was bad, and that goes for all of the five towns he leveled” like dawg u can’t seriously be saying this shit with a serious face

[eternal viper]

People try to compare Luffy playfighting with Momo to Rocks beating up Loki, ts actually crazy

[deep chasm]

we talk like he is complete fodder to rocks

which he was

[sage temple]

Sanjuan is exhibit A

[ashen perch]

The first time Loki didnt even do anything to Rocks, he was just being an annoying kid. I certainly wouldnt hit a kid with extreme force for that. The 2nd time he asked for a fight yes, but again, this is a delusional kid who certainly doesnt deserve to be mauled.

[deep chasm]

bro idc. Loki was nowhere near rocks in strength

[ornate tartan]

height really doesn’t matter in one piece, xebec and harald fighting equally when one is significantly bigger and physically stronger then him

[brittle basin]

it did. and he did it intentionally to get Harald to come back to be part of his master plan. it's bad, but I view it as part of that chaotic nature.

[deep chasm]

the point is loki was too weak to be any sort of threat

[trim lily]

even if loki attacked rocks, there was no reason for rocks to use a lethal weapon

[sage temple]

How do you know those towns weren't bad though? I wanna hear your reasoning

[deep chasm]

its not a case where self defense justifies it

[wet condor]

Rocks could've just got out the way

[ruby moat]

There aren’t ppl who are seriously tryna use the “all towns were bad” argument are there

[tranquil blade]

Like to me it feels like Xebec was supposed to be a little more nuanced but if that was Oda's goal he really didn't do the best at depicting it

[sage temple]

I'm giving up asking you for reasoning since you clearly have none no matter what you're arguing ngl

[wet condor]

Loki isn't any real threat to Rocks lol

[urban lodge]

You'd be surprised

[tranquil blade]

Well Socrates might actually be but me I think it's just a funny meme

[glass plume]

i think it's completely fine if Rocks was a bad guy, i see no point in trying to depict him as this hero

[hasty sable]

Honestly I am kind of surprised some people feel this strongly about it

[glass plume]

he does good and bad, like any pirate

[ashen perch]

ACoC sword cannon the first time, left him in a pool of his own blood by stabbing him the next time. Theres really no way to spin it.

[deep chasm]

idc what you think bruh youre only showing my point that you just glaze loki. "Self defense" as if loki was any sort of threat to rocks

[wet condor]

Loki isn't totally harmless but Rocks could've very easily dealt with that without attacking him. Could've just jumped out of the way

[ornate tartan]

even if the towns were bad
that’s not his job to blow them up
some good or innocent people could still be living there

[sage temple]

How do you know they weren't bad

[runic dock]

Chaotic manipulative nature

[brazen prawn]

Let's just wait for Tommorow hint

[brittle basin]

we don't know for sure if the various places that Rocks attacked were good or bad. I think most of us think it's very suspicious that the one place we are shown them targeting before those narrator boxes was a known corrupt organization. And Rocks intentionally originally targeted the World Government - which is also corrupt. It's a small pattern, I guess, but it is a pattern.

[sage temple]

[ashen perch]

Rocks does good?

[glass plume]

this is just sadistic at the end of the day

[winter oasis]

he isn't reflective like that - he compartmentalizes his evil actions as necessary ones for society to function on an overarching level, maybe with a tinge of regret that he "didn't do more" nebulously. sengoku might be the most realistic character in the entire story

[sage temple]

Lets hear it Bartsky what makes the towns not all bad

[ashen perch]

the lesser evil is not good lol

[ruby moat]

It’s funny how Socrates thinks his question even dignifies an answer

[ornate tartan]

I can’t imagine if I lived in a sketchy neighborhood minding my business and some mfs blew it up cause my neighbors were scammers

[hasty sable]

Sengoku is also in a place where he will likely escape punishment for all of his crimes

[wet condor]

You think he's overall evil?

[hasty sable]

Yes

[runic dock]

Those are just things that happened in moments in time of a long illustrious bad pirates career , it’s a much more nuanced take to say “this extremely bad person also saw how fucked the wg was and didn’t like that shit either, maybe even wanted it for himself “ instead of haha he was actually good all along

[eternal viper]

I think it's because people think if you fight against the world government and celestial dragons that automatically justifies every bad action you've done

[prisma yacht]

My boy did nothing wrong

[winter oasis]

i mean look at all he's done and excused

[runic dock]

Why wouldn’t people want and assume the former?

[ornate tartan]

Xebec is Morally Grey
he’s not evil, and he’s not good either

[sage temple]

Doesn't really matter ngl if a 30 year old man starts beating on someone but deals little to no damage in doing so, does that mean the person they're beating on should let it happen?

[glass plume]

well, only when it's Rocks they don't care when it comes to Dragon lol

[brittle basin]

I think Sengoku does have that one issue where he says something like "just obey what the WG says" or something like that. So I guess he maybe ain't that reflective.

[eternal viper]

yeah lol

[glass plume]

they'll blame him for anything atp, even if he works against the World Government

[sage temple]

But realistically Rocks hurting Loki was like the only bad thing he's done in his entire life bruh

[ruby moat]

lol

[ashen perch]

its like a lot man

[grand flower]

Yeah he was trying to have them af his soldiers too

[winter oasis]

this is just an expression of ideology, that he believes there needs to be something like the marines and the WG even if the cost of that is worldwide oppression, as anarchy and the transitionary period is worse. which is evil obviously given what the WG does

[runic dock]

Did you skip the narration?

That’s not true

[sage temple]

Every port, town, and island was evil

[ashen perch]

oh come on

[glass plume]

how do you know that?

[sage temple]

I'm dying on this hill idc the towns were all evil

[barren token]

Isn't this just boring man

[runic dock]

Alright you’re a lost cause or you’re trolling

wtf is that response

[sage temple]

How do you know they weren't

[trim lily]

it feels weird that socrates of all people would want to justify rocks having never done a bad thing

[brittle basin]

That's the thing, I don't think I could ever call Rocks "good" in and of itself. It's why I keep defaulting to chaotic good. I think any good was from his POV (not necessarily my opinion on what's good) and he would do whatever it took to achieve that good as he viewed it.

[barren token]

Why do you want rocks to be a paragon of virtue so bad

[ruby moat]

This is the kind of argument weve come to expect from Socrates unfortunately

[brazen prawn]

Yeah, he was also get challenge but I think that was too much on child

[glass plume]

I asked you, answer me

[wet condor]

This is his most controversial moment, yeah

[trim lily]

is it really just because loki looks up to rocks

[deep chasm]

bro youre making a dumb scenario. If an immature child is running up to hit you, and this child is 0 threat to you, you dont need to attack him and make him bleed and smile while doing so.

It doesnt matter how big loki is when rocks was a million times stronger than him. This is the wrong hill to die on

[sage temple]

I'm only saying this because you can't really prove the towns werent evil

[prisma yacht]

That's loki mindset xdd

[hasty sable]

Dragon’s problem is the opposite where there just isn’t much detail about what his revolution entails. I bet if they explored Dragon more some people would be calling him a villain too lol.

[ornate tartan]

yes😂

[sage temple]

[glass plume]

wouldn't surprise me given their whole personality is just Loki

[ruby moat]

I sure hope all Loki fans aren’t like this…

[trim lily]

theyre not

[runic dock]

It could even be from Lokis perspective , and how HE viewed rocks , since it is still his flashback

[trim lily]

dont let your view become biased

[runic dock]

Loki gave those bad things a pass

Essentially maybe

[barren token]

I'm already kinda disappointed rocks is just a slightly edgier roger why are you trying to make him even nicer

[sage temple]

I don't know if they were evil or not but neither do you

[glass plume]

it's kinda cringe when a fictional character becomes your whole personality

[urban lodge]

What if Loki realizes Rocks sucks and his father was the role model he should have looked up to by the end of the arc

[sage temple]

It seems we've come to a stalemate brachy

Good game

[wet condor]

I don't get why people go to such lengths to run cover for the likes of Xebec and Blackbeard lol. Just let them be bad. You can say they're bad and still like them and not unironically make excuses for what they do

[ashen perch]

I actually do think him being Loki's idol is the main reason why Oda has chosen not to focus on the bad bits of Rocks, Socrates is just a victim of Oda's propaganda here

[ornate tartan]

Shanks as a role Model> Rocks D Xebec

[wet condor]

People saying that they're bad dudes isn't the same as saying you can't like him lol

[brittle basin]

That is also a possibility. The only reason I hope it's not, and this may be shallow of me, is because I don't want Oda to then spend precious panel time explaining and/or showing why Loki's version was wrong.

[wet condor]

Or that it's bad to like them

[eternal viper]

I was kind of hoping this Domi Reversi thing didn't happen and Rocks had a moment showing his own hubris, doing something immoral

[trim lily]

name ONE bad thing blackbeard has done aside from the slave trading, pillaging, and several other crimes against humanity

[glass plume]

well then you can't be so confident that they were

[runic dock]

This is exactly it I just came up on the realization talking to Buffy lol

[barren token]

Be ugly

[sage temple]

Well then you can't be so confident that they weren't

[trim lily]

thats mean

[urban lodge]

His biggest crime

[ruby moat]

Fat

[urban lodge]

Especially as a kid

[ornate tartan]

I can give you 3😂
but ik what u mean, it’s crazy u have to explain this to ppl

[wet condor]

People seemingly reorienting their worldviews and holding positions that they wouldn't hold irl lol

[glass plume]

it's so weird

[digital spear]

Thats what ive been asking people and they are just speechless. Nobody could answer

[deep chasm]

fr

[prisma yacht]

Omfg

[sage temple]

See in this case we know for a fact that the people Blackbeard committed atrocities against were actually innocent

[brittle basin]

Wagellan

[runic dock]

It might not be necessary cause the narration and other bits were still there , so if you don’t have a biased scope like loki had perhaps , then you would see oh yeah those are bad things

[hasty sable]

The very coolest thing Oda’s done with the revolution is the Eight Nations revolt and Flame Emperor Sabo just because a “good” king was murdered… and the RA accepting this as a cruel but necessary ruse to keep this momentum going.

[trim lily]

how do you know those slaves werent evil

[runic dock]

It’s all for the greater good

[hazy turret]

Lowkey me asf

[runic dock]

[deep chasm]

I agree this was actually a good concept

[ashen perch]

I think it would be more accurate to say that it is an incomplete version of who Rocks is supposed to be. We're focusing on his redeeming qualities like his love for his family and his opposition to the literal devil, but nothing else.

[trim lily]

i really really hope this actually goes somewhere

[brittle basin]

But I'm also of the mindset that the Rocks backstory is accurate because it was hijacked by the Narrator. I don't actually think Loki is telling this part.

[runic dock]

That was incredibly dope and nuanced and I was like damn oda actually went that direction

[sage temple]

No I mean he killed Whitebeard

[trim lily]

it feels like oda is building up a divide between the more extremist members of the revo army and what dragon wants

[sage temple]

I'm not referring to the slaves

😭

[digital spear]

Dragon vs Sabo

[trim lily]

was wb innocent

[vernal ravine]

it goes the manga says sabo's popularity is equal to dragon now

[digital spear]

No he killed Oden

[trim lily]

yeah sabo is essentially the new face of the revolution

[hasty sable]

Nah I don’t think so. And I hope that’s not where it goes.

[sage temple]

[proud pivot]

Nah GGs WB for killing dogshit man

[hasty sable]

It’s just going to be slightly messy, I kind of hope the RAs get more messy.

[sage temple]

Now that I think about it WB was pretty evil

[brittle basin]

I'm totally open to this being the case! For now I'm just gonna stick to it all being accurate since I personally think it's the Narrator talking to us rather than Loki for a lot of the Rocks stuff.

[digital spear]

Piratefolker spotted

[tranquil blade]

I actually did say that Sabo and Dragon having different panels on that one spread may mean they do differ somewhat on how they want the world to be

[ornate tartan]

plz explain

[trim lily]

i think itll be fun to see how far the revo army actually wants to go

[runic dock]

Even if it’s not loki directly saying this stuff I think it’s still reflective of how he viewed rocks in terms of what’s being shown to us , like this is still a window into his bias in a way

[ornate tartan]

WB is evil but rocks isn’t

😂😂😂😂

[barren token]

I don't think there's really a divide ideologically. Dragon just wishes the revolts weren't caused by a good kings death and sabo doesn't really care

[sage temple]

Why do you respond to me and not the other people

I feel targetted

[trim lily]

dragon only wants to take down the CDs but a lot of revo fodder want to take down monarchy as a whole, mostly cause they come from countries with corrupt royalty

[sage temple]

I was just going with the crowd

[tranquil blade]

I mean we know Sabo didn't kill Cobra but he doesn't seem to be losing sleep over it compared to maybe Dragon either

[sage temple]

I'm a sheep

[brittle basin]

If Oda shows that in the coming arc, I'll totally bow out and say y'all were right.

[ornate tartan]

nah bro i’m not targeting u
u just saying some crazy shit😂

[barren token]

Sabo isn't going to go around murdering random kings to get more revolts going

[digital spear]

How you have fallen..

[barren token]

Unless...

[digital spear]

Unless...

[prisma yacht]

Nope

[digital spear]

[fossil mortar]

zosan happens

[trim lily]

yeah I dont think sabo himself has that ideology, but it does seem like he'd be willing to accept it for the sake of the revolution

[runic dock]

Dragon vs sabo for king of the revolutionaries

[barren token]

Sabo wouldn't. But maybe the Flame Emperor would

[brittle basin]

He should with Bello Betty (my beloved) at his side to cause further chaos.

[hasty sable]

This itself is a problem to me

[sage temple]

The only point I really believe about morality is nobody can prove Rocks' crimes weren't made against completely evil people

Because it is true since nobody can prove it

[hasty sable]

I would actually prefer it if Dragon isn’t so soft as that

[brittle basin]

https://tenor.com/view/roast-in-flame-boy-flame-human-torch-johnny-storm-gif-5576597

[fossil mortar]

I could see that

[tranquil blade]

This is why we have Sabo

[trim lily]

dont forget sabo is a psychopath

i will never forget that egg line

[tranquil blade]

Well yes but

A psychopath can still bring good change to the world even if they're not likely to

[ornate tartan]

calm calculated leader with a right hand man that is young and hot headed, wind and fire users

[hasty sable]

Sabo is just a shonen character

[tranquil blade]

In Sabo's case he brings more good to the world than bad

[brittle basin]

What was the egg line?

[sage temple]

Sabo is such a well written character

[runic dock]

Goda

[hasty sable]

I really want more Revos soon

[tranquil blade]

Said crushing a human skull is like cracking an egg

[brittle basin]

[runic dock]

Psychopath , bro had a wife and kids

[proud pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-flight-meme-notyouraverageflight-notyouraverageflight-meme-not-your-average-flight-gif-15102885231826256493

[hasty sable]

Getting a foundation for Dragon’s backstory here

[digital spear]

What other series is this from

[barren token]

-Dragon

[urban lodge]

The start of the vice admiral downfall

[trim lily]

poor bastille

[hasty sable]

I want to see a falling out between Dragon and Garp immediately post-God Valley

[tranquil blade]

Started in Punk Hazard

[sage temple]

[runic dock]

Pokémon

[trim lily]

actually that other VA bartolomeo beat really started it

[fossil mortar]

admiral downfall and vice admiral downfall

[trim lily]

at least smoker did something in punk hazard

[hasty sable]

And Dragon being tied to Shanks is cool

[digital spear]

Who in Pokemon

[tranquil blade]

Yeah but he also got his ass beat 3 different times in the same arc

[runic dock]

Oh idk I just guessed

Sounds like Pokemon

[tranquil blade]

By 3 different people

[fossil mortar]

losing to barto is instant agenda destroyed

[trim lily]

becoming a vice admiral is the worst thing that can happen to you in one piece

[urban lodge]

Maynard...

[tranquil blade]

Barto is tuff tho

[trim lily]

koby is lucky he gets to skip over it

[ornate tartan]

cant think of any off the top of my head

unless u consider aang from atla zuko leader, but zuko wasn’t hot headed when he joined him

[hasty sable]

Shanks more and more feels like the hero of a different story. Like he should have been the main character but for reasons he can’t be.

[olive sigil]

Losing to Barto is nothing to be ashamed of. He has a peak fruit

[brittle basin]

If Shanks dies you won't have to worry about that anymore.

[urban lodge]

Well yes

[fossil mortar]

shanks will die to bb

[hasty sable]

Even has his own personal antagonists

[ashen perch]

Well the narrator is just Oda in this instance, the idea is that he is picking and choosing what to depict of Rocks in service of Loki's story for now. Anything else remains hidden till its the right time, including things like Roger's hostility towards him and the reason why they were considered the greatest of enemies, or his past before suddenly dropping into Imu's chamber, or the raids on towns and ports, or the admiral he killed.

[digital spear]

So you werent referring to anything alright, just wanted to make sure cuz it sounded like that

[trim lily]

i feel this might actually be a thing in the story

[wraith mantle]

Need Rocks to resist it fr

[trim lily]

he was meant to carry on roger's torch but didnt

[runic dock]

It’s shounen jump not seinen jump

[barren token]

Who's gonna tell arsal ..

[urban lodge]

Oda finally made Shanks interesting

[hasty sable]

Yeah, I think it would be interesting if that was what Roger and Shanks’ final talk was about

[urban lodge]

I didn't believe he could do it

[trim lily]

i never thought id see the day

[ashen perch]

Shanks was the destined hero of the story till Luffy suddenly fucked everything up by eating the fruit

[hasty sable]

Imagine how heartbreaking it would be for Roger to tell Shanks it isn’t either of them

[ornate tartan]

https://x.com/writingpanini/status/1982115481948442696?s=46

Panini (@writingpanini)

#OnePiece #OnePiece1163

My justice vs Unclear justice
Two marines, two choices

X · Oct 25, 2025, 4:02 PM

[digital spear]

I kinda wish Gaban looked like this now to keep the time dilation theories going. And then its just "he aged well"

[hasty sable]

I feel this way about Ace too

Ace was who Shanks wanted to give the Gomu Gomu too

[sage temple]

Where did Garp get that scar from

[brittle basin]

Are you thinking Oda is gonna do a step back with BB's backstory or some other narrator moment to show what Rocks' darker qualities were like? Or just have someone, like Gaban, explain "nah this is what Rocks was really like?"

[trim lily]

turns out roger didnt plan for his son despising him

[ashen perch]

this is roughly only a year before Shanks loses his arm and the fruit, the timing is important

[urban lodge]

The baby Shanks sidequest has been really fun too

[sage temple]

Did Garp have a lobotomy

[ashen perch]

yeah I can see this be the case for Ace as well

[digital spear]

Random tiger in his childhood maybe

[ornate tartan]

I think he had it since he was a kid

[ashen perch]

Roger did want him to be the one after all

[runic dock]

Child of fate sounds super important but thinking about it more it could also mean “the cog in the machine that’s playing their part “

[proud pivot]

The story of shanks is truly tragic, he had to sacrifice everything for luffy's sake and in future even his life will be sacrificed for the sake of luffy

[sage temple]

So kid Loki > kid Garp

[trim lily]

i dont think he sacrificed everything

[sage temple]

Got it

[trim lily]

he just gave him a fruit

oh wait and his arm too lol

i forgot about that

[proud pivot]

a lot

he sacrificed a lot

[runic dock]

He gave up 1 arm not even 2

[barren token]

This Luffy guy sounds like an entitled cunt

[runic dock]

Calm down

[proud pivot]

he gave up finding one piece

[rare ivy]

Seems like it

[sage temple]

😭

[proud pivot]

he gave up being roger's successor

[barren token]

No he didn't?

[sage temple]

I wish Shanks gave up both arms

[runic dock]

But he’s trying to find it rn

He said he was

[barren token]

He told benn that it's time to go get the one piece

[proud pivot]

yeah only to challenge luffy to grow

[trim lily]

i hope shanks hasnt just been sitting on his ass for 20 years and has the tools to find the one piece

[proud pivot]

like bro didn't even dared to find poneglyphs

[runic dock]

And what if luffy fails against him? He will have to be the one

[proud pivot]

when he could've

[brittle basin]

Yeah, Shanks straight up said in recent days they're going after the One Piece. Cross Guild, Shanks, BB, and Luffy are all gunning for it now.

[tranquil blade]

He was waiting for Kaido and Big Mom to go down

Just like everyone else

[trim lily]

coward

[sage temple]

What would Shanks even need to do? He's the strongest pirate rn

Maybe he's getting ready for BB

[barren token]

He knew nika needed to awaken beforehand

[trim lily]

get the poneglyph rubbings and a way to read them

[proud pivot]

is luffy fails, he was not the destined one, that's it

[barren token]

Its all coming together

[proud pivot]

yeah

[ashen perch]

I think it will be detailed during BB's flashback yea, I don't think Gaban is necessarily hearing of the things that we're seeing here, in reality Loki is likely sticking to the Harald thing lol. The admiral he killed could be important too, for example, if he was the father of Akainu, I can see his story really paint Rocks as a monster too.

[tranquil blade]

Interesting how 3 of the 4 emperors have been replaced by now, the only unchanged one is the rhp

[barren token]

Well he has 3 now

[trim lily]

right now shanks has no way to read them (unless monster can)

[brittle basin]

Perfect time for a server bet.

[sage temple]

With the way Luffy is doing it Shanks had enough time to get the rubbings and learn the language

[proud pivot]

only after luffy became a yonko aka a great pirate

[tranquil blade]

He has two

[ashen perch]

he has been but for 6 years

[proud pivot]

and he has 2

[tranquil blade]

Unless he knows the minks well enough

[runic dock]

Very possible

[barren token]

Did luffy not give kid the zou one

[trim lily]

no

[barren token]

Kinda a dick move

[tranquil blade]

Law gave Kid the Wano one

[trim lily]

shanks went to zou didnt he

[tranquil blade]

and Kid already had the Whole Cake one

[proud pivot]

Blackbeard is the closest to find one piece

[ashen perch]

maybe...

[tranquil blade]

When?

[brittle basin]

If I lose, you can mute Sb for 6 weeks.

[trim lily]

with the roger pirates

[rare ivy]

He went everywhere but Laughtale

[tranquil blade]

I mean I guess yeah but

[urban lodge]

Yeah he could probably just ask

[ornate tartan]

the only character who has 3 poneglyph rubbings is Luffy

anything else is speculation and hasn’t been confirmed

[tranquil blade]

Doesn't mean he has the poneglyph

[trim lily]

he at least knows zou exists

i dunno how he'd find it

[tranquil blade]

Tho he might have it too idk Shanks gets a lot of shit for damn near free

[urban lodge]

What if he rescues Law lol

[trim lily]

then it leaves the final poneglyph (which will be fought over in the four-way emperor battle at lodestar)

[ashen perch]

I am sure Shanks has 3, maybe we will get him visiting Zou but its probably something he already has lol

[tranquil blade]

Blackbeard probably has 3 now

and Luffy has 3

[trim lily]

buggy has uhh 0

[runic dock]

Why wouldn’t they have gotten the zou one? So they’re expected to find zou on their own and for the minks to give it to them ? They were always set to fail then

[ornate tartan]

Shanks and Teach have 2 confirmed ones
Buggy has 0

the next time we see them this can change but for now this is the amount of poneglyphs the other 3 emperors possess

[tranquil blade]

Buggy has jack shit

[hasty sable]

Buggy stealing all of Luffy’s would be the funniest route

[tranquil blade]

So he's gonna rob someone

[trim lily]

buggy will rob shanks

[runic dock]

When they don’t need it anymore

[digital spear]

Buggy finds the Man marked by flames

[ashen perch]

Buggy could find the 4th by sheer luck

[glass plume]

Shanks would just give it to him, lol

[ashen perch]

smh YC

[glass plume]

since the promise

[trim lily]

love wins

[digital spear]

[ashen perch]

great minds and all that

but yea

[ruby moat]

No reader

[trim lily]

pudding

[proud pivot]

Teech however is the closest to find one piece

3 Road poneglyphs
Poneglyph translator
strongest devil fruits (3rd one coming)

Pacifistas and seraphims inbound

Pluton inbound

YC+ captains (Lafitte, Van Augur)

Kuzan

Kaido + BM?

Mark my words, you all will not be laughing 50 chapters from now.

[ashen perch]

Buggy getting the one that no one could find would make things the most interesting for him

[digital spear]

BB has Pudding, Buggy has Moria, only Shanks is lacking a reader

[trim lily]

monster

[ruby moat]

Pudding isn’t a reader yet

[tranquil blade]

Well Shanks is inevitably cooked so

[ashen perch]

Alternatively, theres always KUROS-Guild. He decides to ally with BB in hopes of eventually betraying and stealing his glyphs.

[hasty sable]

Now that Buggy is actually trying and daring to dream again I still think the funniest thing Oda could do to him is finally having his luck run out and his tower of lies toppling down on top of him lol

[digital spear]

Moria didnt join Buggy either yet, I just have future sight

[ornate tartan]

Pudding is not a poneglyph translator UNTIL her power awakens, which is just Voice of All things

Robin is the only character that can immediately decipher them other then Oden father

[ruby moat]

[glass plume]

Shanks will give Buggy the rubbings so they can sail there with their own crew

[ashen perch]

Pudding is probably going to awaken any second now

[proud pivot]

Yeah that's the only thing holding back teech

[ornate tartan]

Luffy himself has the Voice of All Things

[hasty sable]

Inb4 Usopp takes out Buggy and gets a 3 billion bounty

[proud pivot]

pudding is a for sure translator

[sage temple]

https://tenor.com/view/bro-just-typing-wells-fargo-typing-random-what-gif-16997881292387626053

[proud pivot]

also BB is gonna attack Wano as we speak

[barren token]

Dare I ask about kaido + big mom?

[hasty sable]

Yeah I just be like brrrr

[proud pivot]

its my hypothesis, I mean Kaido and BM are not exactly dead, and BB has his eyes on ancient weapons, he is gonna attack Wano soon, Kaido and BM might join him or they could be dead, anyways Pluton already makes it better for him than having Kaido + BM

and wano's walls seems to be built only to be destructed exactly by gura gura no mi

[eternal viper]

I think Kaido and Big Mom have given up their titles to the new gen, I doubt they would be pirates again

[ashen perch]

BM is not joining his ass after he kidnapped her daughter and damaged her territory lol, she is going after him

Kaido is dead

[urban lodge]

Imu probably didn't even register that Garp punched him

[proud pivot]

BM ain't beating Blackbeard, she has to follow him

[hasty sable]

None of the emperors would ever join Teach anyway

[glass plume]

"All these insects look the same.."

[hasty sable]

I do think Big Mom would beat Blackbeard

[proud pivot]

never assume someone's dead in one piece until oda explicitly shows or states it out to us

[ruby moat]

She would but that’s a conversation ppl don’t wanna hear

[sage temple]

Shiki...

[proud pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-shaking-head-speed-shaking-head-speed-clapping-hands-gif-7797247252281441694

[hasty sable]

Remember this guy fled from Rayleigh

[ashen perch]

BM beats current BB but that wasnt the point

[glass plume]

and Akainu

[wraith mantle]

Bb is a bit of a bitch

[proud pivot]

do i need to say what rayleigh said afterwards?

[ornate tartan]

u don’t understand Big Mom or Kaido character if u think they would ever follow Blackbeard

[hasty sable]

He’s a phony

[barren token]

Big mom isn't giving up shit. Luckily she is dead tho so it doesn't matter

Unless....

[wraith mantle]

We sure that guy has rocks blood?

[sage temple]

If BB took all that effort to beat Law BM could definitely beat him

[ruby moat]

Big mom counters Bb pretyy well

[wraith mantle]

Maybe Eris lied

[sage temple]

Loki is Rocks' true son

[ashen perch]

Cunk youre eventually gonna have to come down from that fence

join the good side

[barren token]

She's dead

[ashen perch]

she is alive

[barren token]

Unless...

Its literally just that pudding panel man

[hasty sable]

Blackbeard is powerful but he’s also only gotten this far because he lied, cheated, schemed, and backstabbed his way there

[sage temple]

We don't know Rocks' age right?

[barren token]

Why would oda make her say that....

[ashen perch]

wait theres no fence emote

[sage temple]

So there's a chance Rocks birthed Loki