manga-theories

[vapid minnow]

oh! But there’s 8 D Families, unless Imu is the final D!

[willow ice]

Would make sense if she betrayed the leader of the families and destroyed the ancient kingdom.

[acoustic gale]

What if Roger established emperor system and asked them to be ruthless towards new generations in order to find out next joyboy

[versed hamlet]

the emperor system was never really a thing that needed to be established. its more of a social construct developed by the marines/public in order to classify the strongest pirates as a force that can contend with the WG

[snow herald]

Theory; 800 years from current timeline, laboon is gonna arrive at a NEO-Wano kuni and momonosuke the 8th, is gonna be like "its strawhat luffys nakama from 800 years ago!'

[vapid summit]

Hmmmm did big mom die latest chapter

[wet perch]

Neo Wano is about to explode. den-den daiko plays

[vapid summit]

I hope because I think one piece need to be darker like Luffy vs doflamingo I think flamingo should have died

[abstract pond]

One Piece doesn't need to be darker.

[pale laurel]

given that the story very rarely kills off villains, how powerful Big Mom is, and that she is still connected to a few plot threads, it is unlikely that she dies here

[true lily]

Raizo says I need water...maybe Zunesha comes and splashes water over Onigashima.

[reef sandal]

broad haki theory just to collect thoughts on the subject

haki fundamentally is supernatural will in different forms
the three basic forms can all be understood as this with
armament haki being the imposition of one's will on oneself
observation haki being the sensing and understanding of others' will
conqueror's haki being the imposition of one's will on others

with this, other abilities can also be understood as unorthodox forms of haki
diable jambe as sanji imposing his fiery passion on himself and his surroundings
asura as zoro imposing his fighting spirit on himself
the breath of all things as users understanding the will of not only humans, but animals and objects

objects can also be imbued with will, whether it be at creation (as with many meito and the poneglyphs) or through use (as with ships that have klabautermänner)

sorry if all this has already been said

[true lily]

I think that big mom will run away after she finds something in wano.

[muted ember]

I doubt it

[pale laurel]

that could be. I think Zunesha might move all of Onigashima though

[warped wagon]

Further Haki seems to directly consume stamina as you can Run out off Haki
(Good summary of Haki)

[reef sandal]

i was listing things that weren't directly stated, the thing you said has been said in the story more than once

[warped wagon]

Kinda curious what Momo is Planning with informing yamato
He can Control zunesha so why he dont just call him

[pale laurel]

Zunesha might have been ordered to something or has a strong will to do something that trumps even what Momo orders 🤷‍♂️

[stiff patrol]

Honestly I’m starting to think kid could be vegapunk’s son, nearly all of his attacks have the name “punk” in jt

[pale laurel]

Eustass D. Vegapunk

[stiff patrol]

I mean it’s a valid theory ngl

[warped wagon]

I mean, sanji himself said that his fire techniques are his Fiery Passion but well I understand
Still there is a difference imo between Haki being consumed and Haki being stamina consuming and in the Story they say Haki consumption so either its really something One can consume and df might also consume it or it just means ot consume stamina but they dont say it like that

[stiff patrol]

My bet is either franky or kid are vegapunk’s son, maybe even both

[reef sandal]

making the distinction between the two seems pointless to me

[fading sierra]

Is it possible there is a haki or willpower devil fruit/spirit fruit?

[warped wagon]

Thats actually an interesting thought
I always thought Blackbeard might be family member of vegapunk family or at least they could share the same home village
I mean both are probably from a Winter Island (at least looks like it, Looking at Baby teach)
And BB has a great knowledge of this world, maybe because he was raised in the house of vegapunk

[warped wagon]

Frankys Patents were ruthless pirates, Vegapunk seemed to be neither ruthless nor pirate

[fading sierra]

But BB is a fishy?

[pale laurel]

a soul fruit already exists but it seems unrelated to haki

[fading sierra]

BM fruits yhh i just wondered if there was one that like focused on the willpower element of it but idk

[warped wagon]

If Haki is consumable itself there shouldnt be interaction with other stamina consuming actions, if it consumes stamina it does Interfere

[warped wagon]

What do you mean?

[reef sandal]

no general power in one piece is consumable entirely on its own without drawing on stamina

[fading sierra]

One theory is that BB is a octupus fishman or ate the kraken fruit which is why hes able to eat more than 1 df , his historical counterparts death and his flag

[fading sierra]

The actual blackbeard died supposedly swimming around the ship he died on three times

And a bunch of other stuff basically theres a yuderon yt video about it

[warped wagon]

If I remember correctly the theory was even pretty good
But he can eat the kraken fruit and still have been vegapunks family member lol

[warped wagon]

Yeah I am pretty sure I watched it

[fading sierra]

Ik but part of the theory suggests relation to rocks considering the way his hair looks

[pure raven]

Prediction of Scenes for Next Chapter(s) [from ch1040]

⭕ Big Mom falls into magma (a common theory - magma from Mt. Fuji's magmatic chamber - ooOooOOo foreshadowing)
⭕ The explosion caused damage and magma is eating away at Big Mom
⭕ She tries to fix herself with her own soul, maybe even try CoCting the lava away
⭕ The lava doesn't stop
⭕ Big Mom keeps desperately trying to heal with the cost of lifespan over and over again
⭕ She screams, but no one can hear her
⭕ ***Law loses consciousness ***
⭕ We cut away to Mogura Port, where the Big Mom Pirates are
⭕ The explosion broke part of the walls and the floor/ceiling in Mogura port
⭕ Lava is flowing from there
⭕ Due to Law's fainting, they can hear a scream they recognize
⭕ They find the source of the sound enveloped in smoke
⭕ The smoke clears up
⭕ Big Mom is in a shriveled, old, maybe catatonic, maybe amnesiac, maybe comatose state
⭕ The lava did not break Big Mom's skin, but in trying to heal the damage, she used too much lifespan
⭕ Big Mom had lost consciousness in that old state, it's a permanent loss of vitality
⭕ The Big Mom Pirates take her in, she didn't die, but she won't be an Emperor again

[fading sierra]

Thats just extra i saw

[lavish maple]

zunesha accidentally shit on an island and that was his crime

[warped wagon]

Could explain why government really wants to keep vegapunk under their Control

[fading sierra]

But doesnt vegapunk choose to work at WG theres no mention he there against his will (unless i missed it)

[pure raven]

Law being conscious right now will be relevant for sure. Big Mom's scream should be too.

[warped wagon]

Thats pretty nice, but couldnt she just use the souls of her Crew to heal herself again?

[pale laurel]

if Law's ability stops BM probably also call her homies

[severe edge]

why does the current emperors need to get changed out anyway tho?

[pure raven]

if she had the brain capacity to do this.. I don't know

[fading sierra]

Cuz luffy comin thru

And all the worst generation and new replace old imagery

[severe edge]

there's not any foreshadowing of the current emperors changing, luffy said he'll take down the emperors doesn't mean that the emperors won't be emperors anymore they still have their huge armies and still control a great portion of the grand line which luffy does not get if he beats them

[warped wagon]

He was Part of MADS, arrested and then maybe chose to become governmental researcher but imo this Sounds more like "you can be governmental enemy for lifetime and your research will be interrupted allday or you just join us and we let you work with the highest and best Equipment"

[fading sierra]

Like when the government recruits hackers who hacked them

[fading sierra]

Ik but a lot of high level crew for kaidou and everyone in onigashima is essentially gone so a lot will be left without any kind of hierarchy

[warped wagon]

Exactly
And maybe this Hacker is also son of someone very very dangerous you somehow managed to kill, but you are so scared of his family you Decide to keep him as near as possible so he cant do something crazy

[kind canopy]

what yall think about the reaper?

[fading sierra]

Drugs or enma

[kind canopy]

mmm, i think either enma, or the actual reaper. either way its a direct path for zoro's haki to emerge even more powerful. I think if its death, he's given a means to interact with kuina, and maybe since overcoming death would have to do with haki, maybe her sword becomes a black blade from here

[pure raven]

drugs or enma, as stated

a bit crazier but plausible - Moria's zombie

a lot crazier and not as plausible - death itself

[fading sierra]

Or zoro dies and we get hell arc

[kind canopy]

aha i like this

[warped wagon]

Yeah I think the same lol

[versed hamlet]

yup

[fading sierra]

The moria thing makes sense but wouldnt there be mention of onigashima being haunted before that then one of morias dead crewmates to just show up in the middle of onigashima

[kind canopy]

uhh but anyways concerning zoro, it was hard to make out unless you had the colored version, but theres a couple of frames of him during big moms falling monologue

[warped wagon]

At least then there wont be any "Kuina is alive and Tashigi/Revolutionary/..." theories anymore lmao

[kind canopy]

first hes sitting in a pool of his own blood, and then in the next scene, it looks like his body is moving

[reef sandal]

he's falling because the floor under him is crumbling

[kind canopy]

not by his own control though

[reef sandal]

why are you saying this here

[kind canopy]

ya know.... i never thought of that lol

idk, it could open up a conversation

[fading sierra]

Do u think zoro will have miyamoto musashi character development considering him being put in his place by mihawk and now wandering around defeating others which follows the same story beats as miyamoto

[reef sandal]

that's not what this channel is really for tho

[kind canopy]

i saw it and thought. huh, thats not normal, what does it imply???

theories are all about trying to predict what could happen next aren't they?

[reef sandal]

kinda but short term speculation is more for the two manga channels from what i've seen

[kind canopy]

i suppose. everything concerning zoro right now is relevant though i think, since hes so close to either dying or powering up

[reef sandal]

relevance isn't the issue?

[kind canopy]

im especially interested to see how his conquerors develops

[fading sierra]

If the ground is breaking apart couldnt he fall into one of those dungeons where ushimaru was kept

[kind canopy]

relevant to theories....

[reef sandal]

if you want to initiate a conversation in this channel i'm pretty sure you're supposed to have a theory

[kind canopy]

ah but anyways, also concerning big moms falling dialogue. Yall saw how deep laws hole goes, even into wano itself. I think the fact that shes talking about wano hiding something about the one piece, its possible that we'll something just like how the straw hats stumbled upon that first poneglyph in alabasta

[warped wagon]

You mean Amano iwato?

[fading sierra]

Buh

[warped wagon]

?

[fading sierra]

I jus searched it up and it came up with yugioh and kizaru im jus confused

Imano iwato is rock dungeon thingy

[warped wagon]

Ama no iwato is what I find on Wikipedia lmao

[fading sierra]

Oh oh i see wat ur saying

[warped wagon]

The cave where ameterasu hid herself After being bullied by her Brother Susanoo and through that bringing darkness to the world as Amaterasu is the Sun goddess

[fading sierra]

U think zoro will find like a sun sword?

[warped wagon]

Or fitting to the chapter we saw
A small cave closed by a Rock

[fading sierra]

Laughter drew Amaterasu out of the cave which is quite sus

[warped wagon]

I dont Think it will have relevance for zoro, maybe it implied Yamato being partly Amaterasu like

[fading sierra]

The connection with ace and luffy makes sense that it symbolic of yamato yh

[warped wagon]

Yeah the Story of Amaterasu doesnt really fit to the Story of Yamato
I am not really sure what Oda tried to Show US by making the cave so highly similar to that cave

[fading sierra]

Nah luffy laughing and ace laughing sumbolises their whole theme and aesthetic drawing yamato out ( it shows how she leaves behind kaidou and all thats stuff)

[warped wagon]

Hmm yeah makes sense

[pure raven]

sad to see zoro die like that, but it had to happen
it was just a matter of time

[fading sierra]

Also something could be key to understanding nika in the cave considering the whole slave thing and luffy being compared to a sun god

[pure raven]

who do you think killed him?

[fading sierra]

He is bleeding out from king’s injuries ?

[pure raven]

there was a grim reaper

[warped wagon]

Now that you mention it, Sun God Nika could really fit yeah

[fading sierra]

Not sure if the reaper is acc there as a symbol or literally finishing him off

All sun gods in all mythos are mentioned so the japanese sun god makes sense considering we in wano rn and nika being the sun god icon in one piece all sun gods are reflected in nika

[warped wagon]

I Personally still think Nika was someone from the lunarian tribe, I mean sun=fire and God from.the Land of gods would fit

[fading sierra]

Ig but hes never seen with wings

[kind canopy]

three god swords?

enma god of death, nika god of the sun

but eh, kuina's blade prolly wont get replaced, instead itll just become a dark blade

[fading sierra]

Heaven(nika sword) hell(enma) and earth(kuinas sword) ???

[kind canopy]

ahh

whats her sword's name again? also are we just gonna ignore he's still carrying that kitetsu around from loguetown?

[fading sierra]

Could reference the way of the sword

[fading sierra]

Idk tbh

[kind canopy]

sure its a cursed blade but it seems so weak compared to the others

[warped wagon]

Well we only saw some very vague Figure of imagination of WW
(Just to mention it, the eye on WWs chest looks similar to the eye Tattoos of the tribe living on the timeskip Island Chopper was sent to and it has been started that the Island earlier was very high technology, its probably stupid but I still could imagine some conmection between that Island and lunarians)

[kind canopy]

Wado Ichimonji

someone find translation before i do

"
Straight Line through the Path of Harmony/Harmony Path Beeline"

[fading sierra]

All lot of islands can either reflect or are related to other islands so its either some kind of foreshadowing that chopper could revive a luranian?

[fading sierra]

Thats the way of the sword essentially which makes hella sense with the heaven hell and earth symbolism

[kind canopy]

tru

[fading sierra]

In reference to buddhism bushido and the path of the sword etc eyc

[kind canopy]

ahhh, yeah since the path exists on earth, the destination being heaven

[fading sierra]

Yuh

[warped wagon]

There is that giant tree(?) Or plant, I honestly could imagine These were the First ones who called them.lunarians gods and tried to be as near as possible to them through the plant or maybe that Country was once on the red line and the home of lunarians as it seems to have been high technological and through that they were called gods

[warped wagon]

Thats pretty nice

[warped wagon]

Even though I know it would be hella crazy

[fading sierra]

Isnt there a huge tree in marie jois (idk how to spell) that goes through fishman island and goes throught either grand or res line i forgot

[warped wagon]

Yeah Adam was its Name if I remeber correct

[fading sierra]

It makes loads of sense considering luranians and other winged ppl are probably worshipped but have been distorted in history which a theme in one piece and the angelic symbolism to adam

[warped wagon]

Exactly

[fading sierra]

Also im wondering wat ppl think of geb the evyptian king of gods who laughed causing earthquakes for crops and earthquakes can also form land masses and considering the theme of laughing could it be linked somehow to the red line grand line or the formation of laugh tale and nika

[warped wagon]

Well I was kinda wrong, eve is the tree which give sunlight to fishman Island
I dont remember if it goes to Mariejoa even though it probably should as Mariejoa was directly above fishman Island or?

[fading sierra]

Yh it goes through mariejoa and again sunlight imagery

[warped wagon]

I just checked it, at least officially it seems to not go through Mariejoa but still its a huge tree living sunlight to the dark low Level water residues

[fading sierra]

Buh

[pale laurel]

Here are some thought I have from reading the latest chapter

Perhaps Zunesha is coming to Wano right now because Yamato recently transformed into a makami. Yamato's transformation could be a form of trigger that would make Zunesha go to Wano to "Open Wano". So the devil fruit that the Gorosei was talking about was Yamato's Inu Inu fruit. The old World Government has attempted to hide this fruit away from history because they knew that it would cause the event of Zunesha going to Wano and do something.

As we learned lately, Zunesha is Joyboy's companion. I suspect that Zunesha is or used to be a mink on Wano who was banished from the island along with all the other minks because of some 'crime' that they committed.

Now, Kaido has stated that he intends to find the ancient weapons and also that he wants Yamato to be the next shogun on Wano. Furthermore he wants to move Onigashima to the middle of the island to create weapons and have a pirate paradise. Kaido has also told Yamato that her fruit is an important guardian of Wano.

What if Zunesha is supposed to be the one to "open Wano" and that opening Wano can be taken quite literally - as in the different islands that it consists off can be pulled apart? Perhaps revealing some form of weapon below Wano. Wano appears to be constructed from multiple islands, probably assembled by a continent pulling giant whose head now rests as Onigashima. Kaido might want to place Onigashima on the Flower Capital because it is a good location for controlling the weapon beneath Wano.

[warped wagon]

If you compare Nika with the inhabitants of torino Kingdom (Chopper ts Island) they look comparable beside the Body weight

[warped wagon]

Sounds kinda crazy but not completely unrealistic

[fluid snow]

We still have some bombs on board any guess what could they be used for? Is that drawing dead or not?

[fading sierra]

Yerg

[fading sierra]

They are frozen tho

[cerulean coyote]

Can big mom also give back years of life?

[fluid snow]

Most probably

[shell spoke]

Is big mom dead?

[warped wagon]

Nah

[fluid snow]

Dead? Nah this is one piece most probably not. It also seems like she has to witness luffys rise to pirate king and stuff. Most probably she will just retire.

[warped wagon]

Dont know how she'll retire

She is still full of hatred

Its not like she accepted her defeat or something
Only Option I could think of is amnesia Hits again

[silver sphinx]

i imagine she’ll become Olin and then stay on Wano and then come back into the story in the war arc or something.

[pure raven]

i freaking called this

[warped wagon]

Wasnt this always the most realistic option?😅
I heard many people say this already when zunesha was First introduced so way earlier than this year 😅

[dark palm]

why are you both talking like this is confirmed

[warped wagon]

Who else could have commited a crime that severe, to be punished to walk for eternity

[warped wagon]

I mean, it is confirmed..

[dark palm]

that joyboy's spirit is trapped inside of zunesha???

[warped wagon]

No that an Affiliate of JoyBoy=JoyBoys nakama is trapped in zunesha

[dark palm]

I think it's just the elephant that was joyboy's nakama/is speaking now lol

[warped wagon]

Ah I see, yeah that we dont know yet
I personally was sure it will be someone trapped in zunesha but nowadays I see both options having same probability

[glacial hearth]

yeah like laboon

[pure raven]

so if Luffy is the manifestation of Joyboy in the present time, there might be representation of Zunisha, Joyboy companion, as Luffy companion, one of the straw hats? would one of them betray Luffy? or commit unforgivable crime?

[gray creek]

Why does there need to be a new Zunesha? We still have the old one

[warped wagon]

I personally still Think Zuneshas "crime" was fighting the government and they rewrite it as a crime to Show that everyone who wants to fight the government could be punished in this horrible way

[terse lintel]

that or i betrayed joyboy

[warped wagon]

I dont think JoyBoy punished zunesha into eternal walking
Probably JoyBoy should be a sympathic character One can like and punishing your earlier friend into eternal walking is not the most sympathic

[terse lintel]

that makes sense

[split hornet]

Mingo's speech, who's gonna side with who, who's gonna betray who

Whose whoew

[uneven wharf]

Zunesha prolly got the akainu deception done to it and it betrayed joy boy

Causing his death

Making it feel guilty to forever repent for what it did as a result

[willow ice]

He didn't wear socks during their cuddling time

[native turret]

So now that we see kidd can spam damned punk does that change anything about how powerful you guys believed that attack to be

Everyone was hyping up damned punk acting like it was the most powerful thing ever then he casually uses it like 3 more times

[split hornet]

Big mom is kinky she gets turned on if you beam over her

[warm saffron]

Just thought of a scary devil fruit
Copy copy no mi

[late token]

But who commmended zunesha to walk forever? (It obviously needs someone to commend him) was ist momos ancestor who was a friend of joy boy and didn’t like that zunesha betrayed joyboy?

And were there already minks living on zunesha or did they settle there later?

[pure raven]

So i have a theory about what'll happen when zunisha reaches wano.
when zunisha arrives momo will let the island fall on her back.

[late token]

And destroy the city of the minks + the whale tree? Wouldn’t make sense to me. Why would he to that if he can just let it fall on land or the ocean? Or let zunesha catch it with its trunk? Is there any foreshadowing that he would let it fall in its back?

[pure raven]

True i didn't think of that

[warped wagon]

Wouldnt make sense imo, I guess it was someone of the First government to Show the world
"Look this happens to people who try to fight us"

[late token]

But how were they able to commend zunesha if they were not affiliated with wano? Some sort of fruit power?

[bitter kraken]

It seems to me that Zunesha himself or herself is telling momo that it committed the crime, not like momo got this info from the gov

[next shadow]

big monke theory is way too real

[warped wagon]

Yeah

[late token]

Could be. But would be lame writing to me ^^

[late token]

Thought he read this in the journal?

[warped wagon]

Depends imo
For me it would be better this way than zunesha being punished by some crazy JoyBoy Fanboy who didnt act like JoyBoy wanted and punished zunesha

[late token]

I wouldn’t say fanboy but more like a lover or best friend? I could imagine joy boy being best friends or lover to one of momos ancestors and they punished zunesha

[untold bone]

what if zunesha was punished in joyboys stead for the broken promise?

[warped wagon]

And it doesnt make sense if JoyBoy made this punshment or accepted it as I mentioned earlier it would make JoyBoy himself less likely

[late token]

I think joyboy was already dead when zunesha got punished and joyboy died because of zunesha

[late token]

That makes sense too

[warped wagon]

Doesnt rly Matter who, whoever it was then would have acted without talking to JoyBoy and just decided what would be the "right" punishment by themself

[late token]

Can’t talk to a dead guy ^^

[bitter kraken]

Zunesha coulda been a female giant and was joyboys wife or lover and betrayed his love this would seem like a good punishment. Plus how big it is and it having been alive so long, makes sense that it is a giant who ate a DF

[warped wagon]

Still would be Handling on his own and not acting in a way of JoyBoy

Its like Marco torturing squardo because he betrayed wb

Dunno if this would be well written
Do you rly think the best friend of JoyBoy would be so full of hate that he let zunesha Going through the biggest torture we saw yet in One piece ?

[late token]

Yeah pretty much

[bitter kraken]

Whoever ordered zunesha to talk was prolly a noble of the ancient kingdom right before it fell

[warped wagon]

Beside that, someone who helped the government probably wouldnt be humiliated in such a way I think

[untold bone]

unless zunesha betrayed joyboy to "save" the great kingdom? but somehow fucked up, causing him to be banished/punished to walk the seas forever

[late token]

Yeah it’s always smth bitter sweet in one piece. Like a big misunderstanding or smth

[warped wagon]

Well yeah that could be possible
In the End we anyway have to wait
Any possibility will finally depend in way of writing

[untold bone]

yeah, which couldve snowballed into events that triggered the void century

[warped wagon]

Some bittersweet plottwist could be nice
Even though I am waiting for this Kind of twist for Akainu or bb

[untold bone]

im waiting for an Im twist

for all we know, Im could be joyboy

[late token]

Im pretty much fine with any explanation except that zunesha is a person who ate a devil fruit^^ but that’s just my personal preference

[warped wagon]

Well for Im twist, Im needs to do something lol

[untold bone]

lmaoo true

[warped wagon]

Oh yeah, Zunesha having just a random ancient elephant fruit would rly be lame imo

[bitter kraken]

Why don’t you think it could be zunesha is someone who ate a fruit?

[safe snow]

It very well could be an ancient zoan, possible Mammoth 🦣

But yeah something more substantial would feel better

[warped wagon]

In a world were giants and ancient giants exist, why cant we have giant elephant

[untold bone]

but only those with the voice of all things can talk to zunesha?

[late token]

Not saying that it couldn’t be but I would really not like it ^^

[untold bone]

like, we've seen zoan users speak like normal

[bitter kraken]

No I think the voice of all things can sorta hear her but momo is special and can talk to her and order her

[late token]

Oh yeah good point

[bitter kraken]

Cause oden and roger couldn’t talk to her or luffy

[pale laurel]

We already have an elephant fruit in the story. Spandam's sword ate the elephant fruit, so it cannot just be a person/giant who ate an elephant fruit and became Zunesha

[late token]

Yeah I put my money on zunesha just being a huge freaking elephant ^^

[untold bone]

plus zunesha was punished for something. unless the great kingdom used to have the technology to control another persons df, im betting that zunesha isnt a zoan

[warped wagon]

If JoyBoy was an ancient giant, it wouldnt be surprising if his friend was a giant elephant lol

[untold bone]

luffy riding the giant squid was a foreshadowing /hj

[bitter kraken]

If zunesha is just an elephant how could anyone say she committed a crime, that to me seems like it was someone who was capable of understanding right and wrong and did something bad and was punished for it. Crime and punishment, it seems weird to me that they would punish an actual elephant

[untold bone]

you say that, but we have a whole deer on board who occasionally commits medical crimes

[warped wagon]

An actual normal elephant isnt that Big, probably this kinda elephant is intelligent enough to understand

[pale laurel]

I wondered if Zunesha used to be an elephant mink who ate a giant fruit

[warped wagon]

Or it is someone trapped in the elephant

[pale laurel]

then Zunesha could have been a recident mink in Wano

[bitter kraken]

Chopper ate a human human fruit lol not the same thing

[pale laurel]

and if JoyBoy wears a strawhat, he might be from Wano too

[bitter kraken]

But before that chopper was just a deer, the fruit is what made him special

[warped wagon]

We got more than enough special animals in the Story dont we?
Rabbits on drumm for example

Also wasnt it said that zunesha is Part of a specific Race of elephant

Naitamie norida

[late token]

Any opinions on zunesha being pluton? Think there are a few theories about that.

[amber oar]

Why Franky would be carrying the blueprints for an elephant

[warped wagon]

I dont like the idea
I mean, Franky had plans of pluton, wouldnt be a giant elephant sized weapon being remarkable enough so he would remeber it lmao

[short folio]

Zunesha is a giant sentient elephant and definitely not pluton as it was stated that pluton is a warship

[warped wagon]

Correct

That would be hella inkonsistent with way to many Informations we have about pluton

[late token]

True ^^ fck me morj for his theories

[warped wagon]

Lmao

[pale laurel]

Robin mihght also know where Pluton is because she read it from the poneglyph in Alabasta, but she did not care to mention it when on Zou

but I think that Morj's idea was that ZUnesha is a warship that ate a devil fruit, just like we have seen guns and swords have devil fruit powers

[fallow knot]

Did someone perform immortal surgery on zunesha?

[pale laurel]

but now I think he will revise the theory to be that Zunesha is joyboy's friend who became a warship who became an elephant who is going to make the raid fail

[late token]

Haha nice one ^^

[pale violet]

So joy boy must be a giant

[uneven wharf]

I wonder if there was an anti joyboy in the past, who commanded zunesha and as a result joyboy lost
then zunesha was cursed to walk the seas forever by anti joyboy

@pale violet ya there's a giant straw hat in the castle!

[pale violet]

Elbaf arc could be coming right after wano country

[uneven wharf]

elbaf is the arc I'm most excited for; been hyped for longer than wano and ussop's arc

[amber oar]

pretty sure Morj no longer believes the raid will fail and he's just riding the clickbait wave

[late token]

Oh so like an ancient xebec?

[weary cypress]

Raid is still gonna fail?

[uneven wharf]

maybe ionno :o, but if there was a luffy equivelant, in a storytelling perspective it would be weak to not have an anti luffy

[warped wagon]

Oars = JoyBoy
Look at the beautiful foreshadowing with Oars fighting with Luffys shadow with Luffy veing the One who inherited JoyBoys will
He even wears Ruffys strawhat
And both, strawhat and Oars where frozen

[uneven wharf]

yo he's onto something :o

[warped wagon]

It would fit perfectly

[uneven wharf]

I'mma fight oda if he doesn't go with that

[pale violet]

That would be wild

[rough helm]

will WCI, big mom's ship and zeus lose their sentience now?

[warped wagon]

And I love that idea

You could go even further, looking at Kaido as a probably Big Fan of JoyBoy could have come to Wano where Joyboy died/his Body was and Moria already took Ryuma from there, maybe he also took JoyBoy himself

[late token]

Damn bro good stuff

[uneven wharf]

ohh cos big mom is ko?
that would have some pretty devastating consequences..

I've been kinda out of one piece lately but honestly what you said kinda pulled me back in
now my mind is just combing through everything we know to fit more pieces into that puzzle :o

[warped wagon]

Ty ty
Came to that idea talking with friends and talking about Thriller Bark

[late token]

Thriller is so far back ^^ I think I was still in school when those chapters came out … think I have to do a reread

[warped wagon]

I am not sure if her fruit works that way
She should have lost consciousness now,

[rough helm]

not sure if BM's fruit operates the same way as sugar's cuz when she got KO'd, the toys came back to life. not sure if BM is ko'd her souls pass out too

[rough helm]

yeah thats what im wondering too

[warped wagon]

Yeah exactly
Not sure if bigmom fruit works the same

[rough helm]

big brain moment we have rn

[warped wagon]

Yeah we started to just go through different arcs and do some theories by just thinking in different directions
And yeah, I also started to reread whole One piece, coz I am pretty sure there are way more detsils which might make sense nowadays

Its the same way as I came to the idea of connection between Choppers ts Island torino Kingdom and Sun god Nika

[uneven wharf]

this one is kinda popular now, but I came up with a theory a long time ago, with my buddy talking about where one piece would be:
I think it's under reverse mountain
when we saw the info about the 4 road poneglyphs, it looked like where X marks the spot, was an explosion
my guess is that it's under reverse mountain
and if you look at a pic of reverse mountain itself, it's got this odd look of having an "X" shape almost from an aerial view

also further, I'm also guessing that the strawhats will not be the one to generate the 'all blue', it'll be akainu instead;
akainu will come to find out the location of where one piece is, and fire at it (perhaps with an ancient weapon), to try and stop the strawhats from getting the onepiece, or alltogether destroy it;

this allows for all the 4 seas to converge where reverse mountain once was, and it creates an all blue

[pale laurel]

what makes you think that Akainu would destroy Reverse Mountain? We have a prophecy from Sharley which is that Luffy will destroy Fishman Island, and I imagine that he will do so by destroying all or some of the Red Line

[rough helm]

i just reread the chapter , notice how hera and prometheus are gone when we go back and see law and kid slumped

[warped wagon]

Thats an interesting idea
I like it more than red line destruction but more coz red line destruction is so well known (reverse mountsin also well known but less than red line destruction)

[warped wagon]

Thats a Big brain move, completely forget they were still up in Onigashima

[uneven wharf]

luffy finds where the one piece is, heads there with crew
akainu hears from CP0 or some other spy source of the same info
akainu decides it's too dangerous and decides to fire the ancient wep at reverse mountain
fishman island is destroyed as a net result

luffy indirectly causes the destruction of fm island as a result
🤷

[late token]

Is FM island connected to reverse mountain? Didn’t know that. Thought it was connected to Marie jois?

[uneven wharf]

I'm not sure either , but as far as I remember; it's on the opposite end and the redline connects them or something

so destroy reverse mountain -> red line collapses and that destroys fm island which is underneath all that rock

[late token]

Would make sense if OP planet didn’t have a core and only water inside. But I think reverse mountain and Marie jois are opposite of each other

[late token]

Ah so a chain reaction?

[uneven wharf]

ya maybe, but that just kinda breaks the theory a bit, bc that means that akainu indirectly just fucked up the tenryubito's home
so unless he's that wreckless I don't know

he's a psychopath tho so I don't put it past him LOL

[late token]

Yeah don’t know if he is even that loyal to the tenryubito. Think he is just a hardcore marine ^^

[uneven wharf]

I'd respect him more if he treated the tenryubito just like he did pirates, considering they're really no better

[late token]

Totally 💯 but I really have no idea what his motivation is. Protecting people? Killing pirates? Career? Revenge? Who knows

[pale laurel]

it would be cool if Akainu decided to revolt against the Gorosei and install a military regime instead to finally be effective against pirates 😌

[uneven wharf]

much respect if he's just an iron will enforcer and a career military man LOL
"this is my job and I'll do anything to complete it"

[late token]

„Gotta provide for my family“

[uneven wharf]

akainu is the second scariest char imo.
blackbeard number one because in the manga that dude is just a psychopath too; he looks way scarier in every manga panel he's in, rather than in the anime where he's kinda like a bouncy pirate clown

[late token]

Yeah in manga that face and nose are haunting. In anime he is all zehahaha.

[uneven wharf]

that vs this

there's just something a little bit more menacing in oda's manga

[dire harbor]

It’s under Mariejois, I think the SH will destroy Reverse Mountain letting the 4 seas combine at a point and then Brook reunites with Laboon, adventure etc etc, they get to Mariejois where the final fight happens and in the end Mariejois is destroyed all the way through the red line which then destroys Fishman island

[late token]

Yeah that’s the most common theory I have seen about this too.

[dire harbor]

I haven’t seen that one so much tbh

[uneven wharf]

do you think they would do that tho :o
destroying the fishmen's ancient home, not to mention the deaths from the tsunamis that will be generated killing so many from just natural disaster

[dire harbor]

I’ve seen more of the really massive stretch theories

[south minnow]

Zunesha, Joyboy, Binks all part of a crew is what this chapter has me wondering

[short folio]

maybe thats what the ark noah was for, transporting all fishman to safety

[dire harbor]

It won’t kill thousands. Yes they’ll destroy the home it was already envisioned plus the Fishman are trying to move out of there anyway

[dire harbor]

Plus the fact they’ve already voiced how they wanted to get out of there and be a part in regular society🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[uneven wharf]

yup! it makes more sense to me that some other psycho would do it
this way it also let's oda to keep our characters good

Like the destruction of reverse mountain at the hands of the strawhats would not be an insignificant thing

[dire harbor]

What?:CrocNo: :CrocNo:

[uneven wharf]

well, I think like when wb was fighting at marineford he caused tsunamis world over
so if reverse mountain got nuked it would cause people to die from natural disasters

[dire harbor]

That’s the dumbest reasoning I’ve ever heard, no offense. But cmon none of the straw hats are “good” just because they’re the protagonists it doesn’t make them “good”

[dire harbor]

It wasn’t world over. He could MAKE them world over. There is a difference, but no it wouldn’t lmao it would cause some tsunamis but oh well

[uneven wharf]

why would the destruction of one of the most critical infrastructures on the entire one piece planet be less significant than wb fighting at marineford -- and ya he did cause tsunamis which gave them tsunami warnings

like how is that more dumb than thinking that it wouldn't cause destruction and have longer lasting consequences

[late token]

Isn’t that kinda confirmed already? That joyboy promised them to take them over sea level with Noah?

[dire harbor]

No I’m saying your argument that “oDa cAnT dO iT bECaUsE tHeYd bE bAd” was stupid. Because it made no real sense.

[late token]

Why binks though?

[dire harbor]

Now yes and no, there will be tsunamis maybe logically and realistically yes, but only if Oda writes it that way lmao

[uneven wharf]

?
LOL, we have rob lucci who promised to hunt down robin forever and luffy let him live, how are you justifying that in your head to be not oda keeping his characters 'good'

[dire harbor]

You’re trying to use real life logic to a very fictional world lmao

[dire harbor]

Luffy practically crippled him for weeks. Yeah he isn’t “good”

[uneven wharf]

it's not though, this was a very real worry, since one piece is written as a world
there was panels in the manga showing exactly that tsunami's were headed to islands surrounding marine ford

[dire harbor]

Luffy fought against government officials, freed pirates, thieves, and brutes, and then took them under the SH Fleet. Yeah that’s real “good”

[late token]

In my head it’s already canon that luffy destroys FM island in the process of beating the WG ^^

[dire harbor]

Exactly

[late token]

Was the first thing that came to my mind when we first heard about the prophecy

[brisk timber]

First I thought why does Blackbeard have rinnegan lol

[sand sail]

First off, don't be toxic. Second, you're being horribly disingenuous

No one is meaning "good" to be some saintly attitude, but you're going out of your way to ignore the Strawhats' character if you're denying that they have decent hearts and would be crushed to do something like destroying the Red Line

[dire harbor]

Yeah ok tru, but cmon have better logic than that for why it wouldn’t happen

[sand sail]

No, that's perfect logic. These people aren't monsters, if something comes up that requires them to destroy the Red Line or Fishman Island, they're going to stop and fight about it first every time

[dire harbor]

I’m not saying they aren’t moral, but they aren’t “good”, also no they wouldn’t be crushed destroying the red line. Literally that’s the only way Sanjis dream of the All Blue can be accomplished

[uneven wharf]

no one is saying they're saints though

[sand sail]

They would absolutely be crushed to have to do it, Sanji's dream wouldn't even factor into that choice

[dire harbor]

They’d make sure the Fishmen are safe, but other than that there is quite literally no other reason for them to care

[sand sail]

You've ruined all interpretation of their character if that isn't the first thing that pops into your head about this

[uneven wharf]

dude sanji is willing to die for his morals of not hitting a woman, what makes you think he'd be ok with that plan to destroy the red line like that

[dire harbor]

Why lmao, give some logical evidence here

[late token]

What about all the slaves living under Marie jois?

[dire harbor]

Yeah, and there’s a difference. A massive difference lmao

[sand sail]

Because they care about peoples' livelihoods and their homes. We have 100% of the manga showing us why they wouldn't willingly go around destroying a country. This is going to be on you to prove, or provide any evidence at all, of why you think they'd be okay with this

[dire harbor]

One is a human, the other is a wall. Nonliving. His mentor didn’t teach him “not to hit walls” lmao and to care about the red line

[sand sail]

No, his mentor taught him to care about the people it would affect. You're not really going to push that Sanji wouldn't care about destruction of that magnitude, right?

[dire harbor]

It’s just a massive barrier, destroy a COUNTRY AND THE CITIZENS WITH NOWHERE TO GO. The Fishmen are trying to go above water anyway

[late token]

The prerequestion of destroying Marie jois and the red line under it is that they evacuated all innocent people

[dire harbor]

You are the one arguing against it not me. You are the ones who should be providing evidence to baseless logic

[sand sail]

Evacuating everyone innocent may not be possible, and even if that happens, that doesn't mean everyone will just be okay with letting it all get destroyed lol

[late token]

That’s where law comes in

[sand sail]

No no, you're misrepresenting every character in the Strawhat crew here. This is entirely on you to prove, you're arguing against hard lines in their characters here

[dire harbor]

I’m quite literally not, YOU are the one arguing the main point here. This is on YOU kiddo. I made a point and SJ argued and couldn’t back it up, now you are too. If you have no evidence other than “because I say so” then that’s that lmao

[sand sail]

Nah, that's not how it works. What you're insisting isn't a quality that exists in the Strawhats as character. You have to provide some reasoning as to why you're, terribly mistakenly, assuming they'd be just fine with pulling something like this off

[dire harbor]

Luffy cares about country’s when they have nowhere to go, and BOTH of you overlooked the fact the Fishmen are trying to be accepted in an island above ground

[sand sail]

Now, if you want to say that there would be some stakes that make it so not destroying the Red Line is actually bad too, that's another story. That actually makes sense for them to choose at that point, they've had to make decisions like that before

[dire harbor]

Uh huh and that’s why it’s apparently a very popular theory as to the end of one piece. Yes that makes me “terribly mistaken”

[sand sail]

How is the fact that Fishmen want to be accepted above ground somehow relevant to their home being destroyed? They want that and are still terrified about the island getting wrecked lol

[sand sail]

Yes, it does. You think because people like to muse about things it validates your opinion here?

Multiple people having a bad opinion doesn't make it suddenly a good opinion, it just makes it a commonly held bad one. Lots of people thought Big Mom wouldn't be beaten in Wano as well, but look where we are.

[dire harbor]

Ight you’re obviously not open to discussion on this, I’m not going to waste my time lmfao

[uneven wharf]

????????? that's litteraly you

[dark palm]

[dire harbor]

All you’re doing is saying “your wrong” over and over with no evidence and even when you did provide it I gave an argument against it and you moved past it

[sand sail]

Sure, I've only asked you to provide discussion multiple times It's okay, we can move on. In the future, please be less toxic and more open to discussion, this channel is for substantive conversation

[dire harbor]

HA ok buddy

[vestal gulch]

I think it's pretty reasonable to expect red line and by consequence fishman island to be destroyed given the prophecy as well as the heavy foreshadowing with noah and the sea kings etc. That said, idk why anyone would think the strawhats would destroy an unevacuated fishman island. If it does happen, which it very likely will, I expect not a soul will be there

[sand sail]

They've never evacuated a place before, so history tells us it's more likely that most of the fishmen will either be there or around the area when it happens

Having said that, if it comes to destroying it, it'll be to avert some other disaster I'm sure

[vestal gulch]

they've never evacuated before, no. but oda went out of his way to show us a mostly in tact noah which is likely being repaired currently

if it isn't used at some point that is an absolutely gargantuan chekhov's gun to never fire

really unlike oda to set something like that up with no intent to act on it

[sand sail]

Kinda depends on what Noah is supposed to be used for, but yeah, they could put everyone on it

[vestal gulch]

i mean it is an ark yeah

[sand sail]

But there's no real need for that

[vestal gulch]

one of the more plausible reasons I can think of off the top of my head: Shirahoshi mobilizing the sea kings to pull noah up to the surface, bringing the full force of fishman island to contribute to the upcoming war

oda has also primarily used fishmen as a narrative tool to talk about prejudice in various ways, so wrapping up that theme by bringing their very segregated nation to the surface to rejoin the rest of the world fits well

[uneven wharf]

agreed, for a proper conclusion fm island does need to be moved to above sea, there needs to be an all blue forsure, I think what caused a disagreement in here was just the idea of who would cause the destruction of fm island, directly

[vestal gulch]

yeah there's zero chance of the strawhats killing the people of fishman island

[uneven wharf]

what okama is saying, and I'm saying, is that it doesn't make sense that the sh crew would take an action that directly causes the destruction of fm island

even if they got everyone out, the destruction of fm island could cause the collapse of the red line and that would cause lots of worldwide disasters, killing people

[vestal gulch]

yeah the only way that's happening is with the people of fishman island both being safe from the destruction, and also giving luffy the explicit go-ahead

[uneven wharf]

ya, if it has to be that luffy destroys the fm by his own hands, it would surely be to prevent a worse disaster

[vestal gulch]

potential other fallout from red line falling - tsunamis etc - could be hand waved away since this is a jump comic

but the direct issue which has been set up, that marejois falling would destroy fishman island, is a chekhov's gun of massive proportion that kind of has to go off at this point

[sand sail]

That's not the chekhov's gun, it's the prophecy

[vestal gulch]

i mean both the prophecy and the ark are chekhov's guns

[sand sail]

How Fishman Island gets destroyed is up for debate, it probably is going to be wrecked and Luffy is most likely going to be the main hand in it for whatever reason

[uneven wharf]

yeahh agreed, it's been foreshadowed; no doubting it would happen, we're discussing the why for it

[vestal gulch]

you can't set something like that up and have no payoff ever for it. but yeah the how is still up in the air

[uneven wharf]

the how is the best part 😆

[sand sail]

No one is saying there wouldn't be payoff lol

[vestal gulch]

i was just saying that in a general sense. not trying to argue anyone

[modest skiff]

There is if my theory of Imu or the CDs having some capability of adjusting the sea level of the planet is true. It also contextualizes why water7 floats. I think that part of the reason the CDs tried to overtake Marie Jois was to seize the power to control the water level. In doing so, by living on the red line, they have a doomsday switch which gives them ultimate leverage over all other nations.

I think its possible this power is a big bluff and they don't actually have the key to using it though. Haven't decided if I think they actually have the capability or just pretend they do

[vestal gulch]

unless I'm severely misremembering, I don't believe water 7 floats

the railway floats

[sand sail]

It doesn't yet, Iceberg is making it into a ship

[sand sail]

Maybe, but their power so far has basically come from the marines and weaponry that CP0 could bring them

[vestal gulch]

oh yeah i do remember that bit to deal with the tide problem

[modest skiff]

Right, thanks for the correction. But the idea is that they are trying to make that happen. I think the idea to do so was passed on

[sand sail]

More manpower than single weapon mass destruction

[modest skiff]

And that all had to start at some time in history. The marines weren't always a thing. The WG didn't even exist at some point. There was a moment when the CDs became the biggest power in the world and they gripped that power through some mechanism after a war. Seizing an extreme means of strength is a good mechanism for being able to create that power structure

[vestal gulch]

I do think the WG having some kind of control of the water level is reasonable. Especially with oda repeatedly bringing up the moon

I can see a one piece level of exaggeration between tide levels and the moon becoming important

[sand sail]

Well, the Celestial Dragons were a coalition of 20 different nations coming together ultimately at one point, so it really could have been a matter of sheer manpower even back then for them to claim it

[modest skiff]

It could have been, but I don't think its that simple

[sand sail]

With their opposition at the time being the ancient weapons that the opposing kingdom would've had

[vestal gulch]

there's a very good chance the world wasn't always primarily ocean

[sand sail]

Or, maybe even they had access to a weapon back then as well, but I don't think they have that kind of power at the moment

[heady parrot]

what if all the islands in the op world are just the tops of mountains or extremely high elevation places and the water level has just been risen so high that they’re all disconnected islands now.

[sand sail]

There's a pretty even split between ocean and land in One Piece, it's just most of the land is concentrated in the Red Line

[vestal gulch]

this theory has been kicked around for many years now, but it's plausible enough

[modest skiff]

In my eyes, the idea of a boat which is freakishly gigantic, but not intended for giants, being called "Noah", strongly implies it is intended as a sort of refuge vessel for carrying an incredible number of people. But why? What event would make it necessary to carry that many people on a ship? It clearly isn't for fishmen, it is for people who live on islands. But if they already live on islands, why would you need some giant refuge ship?

Taking this and the fact that Marie Jois is the highest elevation land structure, I feel like it is a reasonable assumption that sea level is variable

[vestal gulch]

same with the idea of red line being man made in some way since it's so unnatural looking

[sand sail]

This is what I was trying to allude to earlier

The fishmen aren't going to be evacuated on Noah

They're just holding Noah down there

[modest skiff]

yeah of course

[sand sail]

Or, the sea kings are, rather

[modest skiff]

Fishmen being shipwrights throughout the story, and clearly not needing boats, means no matter what it isn't for fishmen

I typed up a theory about this previously and I always thought it was insane how people thought Noah was for fishmen lol

[vestal gulch]

it's still a pretty long way for fishmen to swim quickly, so a vessel could still be useful for them

[sand sail]

They don't have to surface quickly tho

[vestal gulch]

I wouldn't rule it out is all I'm saying

[sand sail]

There are also lots of over vessels

[modest skiff]

There's other ships, fishmen don't need to hurry, they swim amazingly fast, the ship is much bigger than the entire fishmen population. There's just no way it is for fishmen

Noah is clearly made for multiple nations of people

[sand sail]

It's like half the size of Fishman Island yeh

Well I wouldn't say multiple, but maybe for a select few

Well hell, maybe multiple nations could squeeze into there like shoulder to shoulder

[modest skiff]

yeah that's what i mean. In a situation where the sea level is rising, you want to pack into it like sardines

I see it as an evacuation device for when the sea level rises

And then, in the meantime, there was also an effort to create a floating island as a permanent refuge against this power held by CDs

[sand sail]

A floating island shouldn't be too terribly difficult to make tho, as far as we can tell, at least for a monarch of some kind

[modest skiff]

I won't pretend to know the logistics of making a floating island. But I will just speculate it is difficult based on the non-trivial attempt at doing so

[vestal gulch]

if marejois decides to completely flood the world that could be a great use case for noah yeah

as well as bringing back iceberg

[sand sail]

I'm sure it's not easy by any means, but it wouldn't be like an 800 year old legacy kind of venture

Iceberg's planning to turn Water 7 into a ship and I believe has started, and Thriller Bark was an island that got converted for Moria at some point

[modest skiff]

Yeah, Thriller Bark is an example of it working. I wonder if it was for the same reason. Who knows

[vestal gulch]

a world flooding would also help justify the destruction of red line if that meant connecting oceans and overall lowering the water level

[modest skiff]

yeah, one of my theories is that the enormous whirlpools and Enies Lobby are parts of a massive network that allows for water to be transported from one side to the other and that there is a whole network under the sea floor

[vestal gulch]

more hand wavey vegapunk tech maybe. who knows how old TB is

[modest skiff]

So I think you can perhaps do stuff like this:

1. Drain the ocean into some sub-sea-floor area in the center of the planet

2. Bring water up from the center of the planet

3. Change which side of the red line water is on, meaning you could make one side much higher water level by lowering the other

[vestal gulch]

it's hard to say if the many strange features in the world are just oda being colorful and fun, or if they're mechanically important to how the world works - but things like the eternal whirlpools, the abyss below enies lobby, reverse mountain, knock up streams, etc all kind of feed into the idea of there being a bizarre underwater/subterranean system going on

[modest skiff]

yeah exactly

I really don't think its just colorful writing. I think its all linked

[mystic sigil]

Hey can someone explain how trafalgar law extends his sword?

I didn't understand how it extended to like 100km

[vestal gulch]

the existence of fruits that can cause earthquakes, reshape the land, etc sets the groundwork for world scale man made changes. red line being a literal line that wraps the planet doesn't seem very natural to me

[uneven wharf]

Perhaps I am remembering incorrectly, but isn't there something that displayed the ability to float like that?

Not sure if it was germa tech or some ships being coated with seastone on the underside of the ship

[modest skiff]

We don’t know, similar to how we don’t know how he can limit sound. It appears his fruit’s core power goes further than we realized

[modest skiff]

That’s a great point. The entire Germa empire floats

[vestal gulch]

we've also conspicuously never been shown a water fruit

but presumably that would be a god-tier fruit in this world

[uneven wharf]

Also your theory about cds having control of the moon is mindblowing. I watched a vid from kurgzesagt on yt on what would happen if the moon started closing in, so the potential destruction is surely op enough for world dominance.

It also explains why the red line is so massive and they are situated within, very interesting!

[vestal gulch]

yeah oda has shown us the moon far too many times for it to not come up. i mean we got an entire front page arc of enel interacting with the moonmen and learning about the relics up there

[uneven wharf]

I would love a semi disconnected arc after all this chaos. Of them going to the moon potentially

Similar to skypeia, the adventetous pirate treasure hunt theme was so enjoyable for me

[vestal gulch]

yeah we haven't really had a 'for fun' arc since before the new world. I feel like elbaf could be that at least in part

[modest skiff]

Do you mean when I talked about the moon being uranus? Or do you mean just now how I talked about changing the sea level?

I don't think I've ever connected controlling the moon to controlling the sea level @uneven wharf , but I think that's a great thought on your part

[vestal gulch]

I was talking about it earlier

[modest skiff]

oh sorry, he meant you not me

[uneven wharf]

Oh sea level

[modest skiff]

tenma can you link me where you describe controlling the moon?

[uneven wharf]

Not sure, the stuff you guys are coming up with is mixing in my head 😆

But yeah the moon is what affects our tides here, so it would make sense in the op world as well

[vestal gulch]

it was like half an hour ago, but I basically just said that the moon controls tides in real life, so I can see oda exaggerating that in one piece style and explaining how CDs/Im/WG control the water level of the planet using the moon

the fact that the CDs all wear space suits further reinforces this idea

[uneven wharf]

Ya and it would make sense if that's how they got world dominance since its a primarily water planet, so they could potentially just sink an island if they had control of the sea like that

[vestal gulch]

exactly

[uneven wharf]

I believe enel is the silhouette we saw, which would tie in nicely for a space arc following wano's conclusion

[vestal gulch]

tie into that the almost certain existence of a water water fruit and controlling those two things could easily explain how they so quickly took control of the planet

[uneven wharf]

O, what there's a water fruit?

[vestal gulch]

we've never been shown one

which is very conspicuous since we've seen fire, magama, electricity, light, earth/sand, etc

yet never water... in a world literally covered in water

[uneven wharf]

Yeah, forsure, but wouldn't it have something to do with the fact that dfs are negated by water

[vestal gulch]

presumably, but a water fruit being an exception to that rule is plausible

the fact that it hasn't come up at all is curious

[uneven wharf]

Yeah, the mother of all fruits lool?
Also wasnt there a mention of an ulti df a couple wks back

[modest skiff]

devil fruits aren't negated by water. As an example, WB's fruit has a big impact on water. So it is possible someone could have control of water without being able to enter the ocean. I don't think all water harms devil fruit users. I think its just the ocean

[vestal gulch]

a devil fruit with a special name yeah

which implies the existence of at least one fruit that is a tier above everything we've seen

[uneven wharf]

Ohhh I see! But wasnt luffy getting weak in saunas and showers as well? I recall that from the zephyr movie

[vestal gulch]

yeah this is kinda what i'm thinking. even if it doesn't allow explicitly entering the ocean, that doesn't rule out controlling it remotely

[uneven wharf]

Also, he used regular water to douse crocodile to negate his powers no?

[vestal gulch]

that was more to make him wet and solidify his sand

sort of how you get sand wet to make a sand castle

pre-haki one piece logic

[modest skiff]

Fisher Tiger described a "devil" inside him that makes him unwilling to accept humans. I think it is possible this resentment/hatred relates to the sea rejecting devil fruit users. I think its possible there is a history of devil fruits and that the sea itself rejects the souls of devil fruits. Fisher Tiger couldn't tolerate being injected with human blood, so he chose to die. I could see a similar dynamic where the ocean can't allow the soul of a devil fruit to be within it

[uneven wharf]

Ohh okok, yeah that would make sense
Also kizarus light beams shoot straight through and still destroy stuff inside the ocean so ya it makes sense

[uneven wharf]

That's interesting

[vestal gulch]

that could be, but the way I read fisher tiger as a character is that he's one piece's malcolm X

so the 'devil' inside of him is the resentment he holds for non fishmen as a result of their treatment

[modest skiff]

maybe, but I think it was also being used as a hint

[uneven wharf]

I wonder how far oda would go to explain all this, since he's been picking up the pace lately

What if dfs and haki are just the basics of that world, potential spoiler for another series:||like alchemy in fma||

[shadow ruin]

This ^^

[vestal gulch]

idk how in depth he's going to go, but he'll have to address how the WG rose to power eventually

[vestal gulch]

right? basically fisher is malcolm, and otohime is martin

it's a pretty clear reference imo

[modest skiff]

for the sake of preventing even slight spoiling, we ask people not to make comparisons to other series outside the #other-series channel

[uneven wharf]

Oh okay, will refrain going forward, although I don't think there's any spoiler in that specific comment. I can spoiler tag it if you'd like though

Ook should be fixed

[modest skiff]

I agree its not a big spoiler. I'm just letting you know that since everyone has their own definition of what is or isn't a spoiler, we just say "zero other series references" to keep things simple.

[uneven wharf]

Ook ty for letting me know

[shadow ruin]

i agree 100%

[chrome gyro]

we all know that silver reighley is mihawk father but people still say its just a theory i mean oda have proved that already the mother is still unknown but i strongly think that bonney is the mother

[civic anvil]

sheeeesh

[chrome gyro]

sorry i didnt write it completely read it again if u want

[weak arrow]

Well. It seems likely that Bonney is kuma’s daughter. And Kuma is 47. So… doubtful.

[lunar topaz]

Good night yall I'm gon have a dream watching big mom's fatass fell out of onigashima animated

[chrome gyro]

dude listen there is no doubt that reighley is mihawk father but as i said bonny may be the mother

[weak arrow]

There is plenty of doubt. It’s a theory for a reason.

[chrome gyro]

its not a theory

[weak arrow]

Has it been stated anywhere that Mihawk is the son of Rayleigh?

[modest skiff]

Saying “there’s no doubt” is not evidence. Either show the evidence you think makes it guaranteed true or move on. Restating the same thing isn’t an argument

[chrome gyro]

yes in alot of chapters and there is famous youtuber said it so it must be true

[teal tide]

am agree with that

[modest skiff]

!theories @teal tide

[reef sandal]

hey mohdoo am i allowed to repost a theory if it got immediately buried when it was first posted

[modest skiff]

Yeah go for it

[reef sandal]

awesome thanks

broad haki theory just to collect thoughts on the subject

haki fundamentally is supernatural will in different forms
the three basic forms can all be understood as this with
armament haki being the imposition of one's will on oneself
observation haki being the sensing and understanding of others' will
conqueror's haki being the imposition of one's will on others

with this, other abilities can also be understood as unorthodox forms of haki
diable jambe as sanji imposing his fiery passion on himself and his surroundings
asura as zoro imposing his fighting spirit on himself
the breath of all things as users understanding the will of not only humans, but animals and objects

objects can also be imbued with will, whether it be at creation (as with many meito and the poneglyphs) or through use (as with ships that have klabautermänner)

sorry if all this has already been said
(repost)

[prime bluff]

What happened with zoro

[vapid minnow]

Zoro fell into the abyss

[modest skiff]

I agree with this and I have said something similar before. I think users with strong Conq haki have the ability to bestow their wills on other people and essentially continue their legacy in a way that goes beyond inspiring people. It is why Momo sensed Oden in Yamato and why Kaido sensed Oden in the scabbards. Roger told Rayleigh he won’t die and at the time of his execution, he reaches out to the crowd. During Sabaody, the narrator specifies that many people who attended his execution went on to be big name players in the world. I think Conq haki essentially has the power to imbue someone else’s spirit in a unique way. One of my kind of wild theories is that the one piece allows a strong Conq haki user to project themselves to the planet, giving them the will to overthrow the CDs similar to Belo Betty’s power. I really think Conq haki has a special purpose that hasn’t been fully revealed and only hinted at in the evidence described above

[keen light]

What if Zunesha's crime was she tried to destroy a portion of RedLine and she caused a massive wave that took alot of peoples lives in a lot of nearby island and as such commited a serious crime. Zunesha was Joyboy's "ship" per say and and when she reached RL thats when she tried to destroy it.

[bright vapor]

Holy Land Mary Geoise is going to be Merry Joy isn't it

[knotty token]

What do you guys think happened to BM?

Also any theories about Nami's parents?

[gilded wagon]

I would say BM is pretty close to death at the moment, will probably be found by her crew and taken back to totoland where she will live the rest of her life as Olin

It’s the only happy ending I can see for her

[knotty token]

lol

[native turret]

law and kidd couldnt have finished off bm

yeah they used brains

They did abunch of tactical shit

bm was clearly way more powerful

people keep hyping up kidd and law giving them way too much respect

[unreal dew]

no one can't save BM because r-room effect still stay at BM, maybe Law will stole BM's heart later ( also kaido if luffy win )
Law will use BM and Kaido as suborninate, after nico robin read some important note from wano (maybe the red poneglyph) it will let them to big war plan

[native turret]

zoro had better feats this arc

[modest skiff]

Lets not do power/feat comparisons in this channel please

[native turret]

true

[modest skiff]

Feel free to bring up that topic in #manga

[rough jetty]

I don't think big mom is done yet

[unreal dew]

yeah

[rough jetty]

Even though it said kid and law won, I think she might come back

[unreal dew]

new gen pirates will use them for big war

[rough jetty]

She is done for this arc for sure

But this arc is for kaido, he'll be the big baddie to beat

[pure raven]

I love this bc it basically implies law and Kidd beat the yonko out of big Mom

[cinder coyote]

I remember a few weeks ago, where i asked who's stronger among the All stars, for instance Law or King, and people answered king, now it's quite obvious who's superior lol

[modest skiff]

Please keep power comparison conversations to the other manga channels

[cinder coyote]

Will do, thanks for the reminder

[snow epoch]

the egg on rodgers ship was somehow related to zunesha

a cool joyboy parallel i think

[warped wagon]

How can they be related?

Either the egg is waaaaaay older then Roger or another elephant of zuneshas tribe decided to lay an egg

[keen light]

ELEPHANTS DONT LAY EGGS

[snow epoch]

have you read one piece

everything is illogical

[warped wagon]

Thats the least Problem lol
Elephant normally dont have legs longer than the see being deep

[warped wagon]

Not rly for OP world everything is pretty logic

[snow epoch]

well zunesha has been around since joyboys era

[cerulean coyote]

Except for dinosaur behaviour

[modest skiff]

I prefer the idea of: There are unbelievably large creatures in sea, land, and air. Seakings rule the sea. Zunesha is a member of "land kings". And there also exist "sky kings", who we have not seen yet, in the area above Skypiea

And the egg is a sky king egg

[snow epoch]

if the island did have an offspring

[warped wagon]

You dont know op dinosaurs lol

[keen light]

Unless u corporate everything with df to make is sensible, lets say zunesha ate the shell shell fruit. Everything she eats turn into nuclear eggs

[snow epoch]

it would take an incredible amount of time for it to hatch

[warped wagon]

So a Dragon or a roc

[modest skiff]

Something like that, yes

[warped wagon]

Yeah exactly

[snow epoch]

i didnt really think the idea out i just kind a said it

it would be a good parallel for joyboys will if all "joyboys" were somehow related to zunesha

joyboy, rodger and luffy

[warped wagon]

Its not really logic imo lol
There are way too many ifs and problems for it to be correct

[keen light]

Bruh

[warped wagon]

All three can hear him probably

[snow epoch]

no all 3 can hear him

both rodger and luffy have the voice of all things

[warped wagon]

Who couldnt hear him? Couldnt Roger hear zunesha?

[keen light]

What if Joyboy apology letter in FMI was apology for Zunesha stepping on their island? Lmao

[cerulean coyote]

They talk about the original joyboy since Zunisha had the punishment 800y ago

[warped wagon]

Hahahahahahaha

[cerulean coyote]

Loool

[snow epoch]

its just an idea

[cerulean coyote]

Oden wrote about Zunisha's sin in his diary yet he didnt say anything when he went to zou.

This is kinda strange.

[warped wagon]

Sengoku goes to Laughtale?

[keen light]

He saying in the phoneglyph "my bad fish people, i fell asleep and forgot to tell zunesha to stop and take a rest. Lmao imma go back to sleep, took me long enough to go down and up from her back."

[warped wagon]

What should he do?

Wait do we know that he didnt say anything? We didnt see the whole Situation of him in zou or?

[celest oracle]

He found out after I'm pretty sure

He didn't go to zou after laugh tale

He probably read it off the reo poneglyff

[cerulean coyote]

Ok, but then he went to wano with the cat and dog saying nothing about it!

[celest oracle]

Yeah true

But then again it is the same with reyliegh

Some people need not know

[cerulean coyote]

Being too early seems a strong justification

[celest oracle]

Wdym

[cerulean coyote]

Like when Roger said: "we were too early"

[celest oracle]

Oooooh

[keen light]

Possible that sin came from the story roger told that he also told to WB

[celest oracle]

So like 20 years more to go

But still cat and dog don't need to know abt zunesha. There's no reason to.

[keen light]

Why not? Theyre leaders, theyre bound to know something, story told thru generations

Like "this island came right off of jaya's island right eye that zunesha stole" that kind of story

[celest oracle]

Not when oden was alive

[warped wagon]

Exactly

[celest oracle]

Thank you

[warped wagon]

There is not really a reason for oden to tell his lil mink mates about zunesha

[celest oracle]

Also you guys know how joyboys companion is zunesha. If luffy is the next joyboy then his companion would be laboon.

[keen light]

Ah right, the voat

[keen light]

Or the giant ass snake in sky island xD

[warped wagon]

I dont Think ruffy needs this Kinda companion

And zunesha is still alive

[celest oracle]

Nah cause laboon has an attachment wth the crew

[keen light]

Or Momo, he a dragon

I wonder what adult momo look like

[celest oracle]

Think abt it, brook would leave to crew to be with laboon

We don't want that so laboon is gonna come with them, plus it'll give them a massive advantage

[warped wagon]

I dont really think he would, coz then he already would have done this

[keen light]

Is there a blue whale fishman?

[celest oracle]

Don't think so

[keen light]

Can some fishman can talk to laboon?

[warped wagon]

Lol

[celest oracle]

Yeah all

[keen light]

Like what jinbei did in impel down?

[celest oracle]

Laboon is not a sea king so yeah

[pure raven]

If zunisha is companion of joy boy, and joy boy broke his promise, could it be that zunisha was responsible to use noah to get fishman out but for some reason he failed

[keen light]

Like whale to whale

[keen light]

Farfetched

[warped wagon]

And for this he was punished for eternal walking
Kinda overreacting

[celest oracle]

Oh yeah cause fishmen were forced to move into the sea

[pure raven]

we already have confirmations right - zunisha is companion, he committed some crime, joyboy failed his promise, noah was supposed to take them to land

[celest oracle]

So the noah was the mode of transport cause there wer so man fishmen

[keen light]

Zunesha is too big for noah, Seaking are the perfect sizs for noah

[celest oracle]

The noah will be used for fishmen to go back up to the land

[warped wagon]

You shouldnt forget, zunesha goss through the most horrible torture we saw yet in One piece
I dont Think JoyBoy or his friends would be so hateful to punish One of there friends in this kinda brutality

[keen light]

True, kinda shows that despite his name, he has some kind of merciless side

[celest oracle]

Ikr but for some reason zunesha took order from momo

[modest skiff]

This does not make any sense. Fishmen can swim extremely quickly and don't need a boat to reach land. It is significantly more likely the boat was built by fishmen for other nations to use

[celest oracle]

Ever heard of sea traffic?

XD

OK I gtg nice talking with you guys

[warped wagon]

Thats why I think Zunesha was punished by government which would make way more sense, I mean we even know that zunesha was companion of JoyBoy

[keen light]

Or there used to be alot of noahs for other nations, so by the time redline is destroyed, all the islanders can survive from the massive waves caused by it

But zunesha commited a crime by destroying all noahs

And another D controled Zunesha to destroy noahs

[pure raven]

but for some reason he only takes command from momo and has ignored luffy so far, could it be someone other than joyboy gave that command to him. Maybe was meant to save zunisha but over centuries zunisha took it as punishment on himself

[keen light]

Unbeknownst there is still one more noah in fmi

[pure raven]

there are so many damn question - voice of all things, noah, that spiky spooky IM, luffy's fruit, will of D, meeting of 2 kings, joy boy and now we have zunisha

[warped wagon]

And there will come many more

[keen light]

This what makes op good. The world building story that leaves u wondering pondering

[warped wagon]

Exactly

[pure raven]

and when the answer comes you go back so many chapters and they fit so perfectly

[keen light]

Making theories that makes sensible but ended up oda slapping u with oda-sense story

[warped wagon]

Yeah lmao

[pure raven]

but a very likeable theory is that luffy awakening could be something related to giant, just like how some people having will of D are giant and even joy boy was a giant

[polar cedar]

My theory is that the GumGum fruit was what the gorosei were talking about, but based on what Luffy can do, what can his awakening be?
We know that Luffy is going to awaken his Devil Fruit at some point in the series, and his awakening has to be some broken BS lol

[polar cedar]

I think being able to grow is a very likely awakening

[keen light]

I believe too also that Luffy fruit is what they talk about, lemme explain.

[pure raven]

not to mention elbaf will most definitely have more answers and that arc will be entirely giants & possibly shanks

[polar cedar]

JoyBoy could have been regular sized, and grew to the size of a giant with the GumGum fruit awakening

or even bigger, which is what was the Gorosei worried

[warped wagon]

I still.hope that its not Ruffys fruit
I dont want that ruffy only is that strong cause he accidentally get the most feared fruit in OP world

[polar cedar]

Oda has given Luffy every other BS powerup

[pure raven]

and that's why world government wanted it and protected it, they are just crazy with making giants

[warped wagon]

Not really lol

[warped wagon]

Yeah thats very realistic

[keen light]

Hyogoro already gave us a hint, that luffy looks like the god of fire. Most likely the previous owner mastered the fruit to make diff forms.

[polar cedar]

Best Haki user, can hear and communicate with Voice of all things, ridiculous strength and endurance

I should say most versatile haki user

[pure raven]

more like shank knew and stole it, now he knows he played the ace game but lost it that's why world government is also ready to listen out. Cause they both lost the gem they wanted & shanks is betting that luffy will awaken the fruit

[warped wagon]

I heard he could have the Sun wukong fruit
Sun wukong could transform into 20 different things I remember

[warped wagon]

Shanks exists, cant communicate with zunesha, zoro showed more endurance

I dont know what you mean by ridiculous strength
Where?

[polar cedar]

You're right, Luffy isn't that strong

[abstract pond]

But Sun Wukong was immune specifically to electricity and blunt?
And if the gomu gomu is so special and important. Luffy would have been dead since he crossed the red line

[polar cedar]

Luffy mid af

[pure raven]

and let's not forget final battle will be among the 2 strongest D members, luffy & BB

[keen light]

Possible awakening is that, Gomu gomu no mi can inherit the previous owner characteristic and the current user can use that as power. The real power of gomu, is the power to inherit and absorb thru generations. For example the first user was a giant, then the mext user after him can use giant characteristics and so forth....

[warped wagon]

Thats the Single Option I could see working but still it would be very Lucky for Luffy being the One who are that fruit

[warped wagon]

Thank you 💯

[keen light]

You know, its kinda like One for All

[warped wagon]

Kinda? This Sounds like an exact copy lol

[keen light]

Hehe

[pure raven]

but world government won't be so intrested, and doesn't suit luffy's style either. I would say more of a giant theme that next arc will be about when luffy actually becomes a emperor after kaido. We would even uncover oden's log book in the end of this wano arc

[keen light]

What if one of the prev owner has access to immumity to all sickness, immortality, pass on thru the gomu fruit

[warped wagon]

Imo it should be someone who was in Wano the whole time and so was impossible to find for government
(Otherwise it needs to be known, so it makes sense to change Name of the fruit)

[keen light]

This what i thought too, logical came to mind is either Toki or Tama

[warped wagon]

I am pretty sure we wont, guess IT'll be the same as when rayleigh asked them if he should teöl them about the secret of the world

[pure raven]

a secret that made roger laugh and will make luffy laugh too I guess

[polar cedar]

Yeah, Tama's awakening could just be mindcontrol on humans

[warped wagon]

Yeah for both the Problem, why rename it if anyway noone knows about the fruit

[keen light]

And then came along Oda slapping us with "Its Mr2 df, lmao suckers"

[warped wagon]

I could imagine there was just written the special dream both Roger and ruffy had with the greatest banquet of all time with the whole world, so that JoyBoy also had this dream

[keen light]

One Piece is the greatest dad joke Joyboy invented.

[pure raven]

yes and would be dope and fit to luffy's personality too

[keen light]

"A giant, a long leg, a long neck, a long arm, a mink etc. Walk into a bar..." kind of joke

[warped wagon]

Yeah and also would fit for Roger/JoyBoy to have the opportunity to write something for next Generations and you write down your "childish" dream

[warped wagon]

Lmao

There is still 1 race missing or?

[keen light]

Etc.

[warped wagon]

Or do we know all OP races by now?

[keen light]

Hmmm

[warped wagon]

When Big mom met King I think she mentioned 3 races missing
Lunarian, Giant and what is nr 3?

[keen light]

I assume bigmom fcked a continent puller

[warped wagon]

Ok yeah I see

[keen light]

Ahh continet ouller

Oars kind

[warped wagon]

I mean she did maybe
With Kaido
Who might be of the same race as Oars family

[keen light]

They way too big for bm vajj

[warped wagon]

nervous Neptune sounds

[keen light]

Yea we know all races by now

I think i did see a sky islander in totland

[gilded wagon]

It’s the only happy ending I can see for her

[harsh niche]

what makes you think oda wont just make one up 500 chapters from now

[keen light]

Oda said some time ago op is 80% complete

No time to introduce more races and extend the story

[keen light]

I forgot which panel is it, but he def.said it at beginning of wano saga

[uneven wharf]

if we even have 500 chapters

[quaint trout]

What do you thenk zunesha's sin is?

[dapper bramble]

idk kidnap joyboy wife?

[warped wagon]

Zugetsa? Imo zunesha fight government and was punished for it
Others say he might betrayed JoyBoy and was punished by One of JoyBoys people or he took a punshment for JoyBoy to rescue him

[quaint trout]

There are a lotnof possibilitelies

Also i'm curios about the reason why the "king" of whano can control zunesha

[harsh niche]

look at the pace we're going. easily

[uneven wharf]

I don't think so! he said it's <5 years, so at his pace of let's say 48 chapters (no way btw it's way less) that's only 240 left

[harsh niche]

what percentage would a new race make up? just saying, oda could make a new race up just to explain some of the body types weve been seeing or just to introduce some new power

[quaint trout]

Wano has another 20 chaptet at least imo.

Then we have elbaf island, 4th stone, last war, one piece itself and against world governement

[uneven wharf]

we might only have 3ish arcs left
elbaf is a guarantee
final war is a guarantee
after math / denouement is a guarantee
I think the fight with blackbeard will be luffy's final fight, and it's going to be mixed in with the fight for the one piece and the fight against the WG

I might be wrong but it really seems like oda's trying to close out the story

[quaint trout]

Possibly. The big hat and imu are also big misteries

[harsh niche]

so another 20 years of one piece

sounds good

[uneven wharf]

honestly I felt the same way, until we started having massive developments in this arc

learning so much about roger and basically getting all the flashback we need from him
learning more about haki
big mom being defeated
etc

[quaint trout]

Big mom is deated now, she may come back in Elbaf.

[uneven wharf]

as much as I want to see one piece go for another 500, I think oda wants to finish and retire / take time with his family

also yeah agreed, she'll be back she's not finished -- luffy needs to go through her as promised to katakuri

[quaint trout]

Also we need more lore about dragon and the revolutionary army

[uneven wharf]

honestly sometimes I wonder if we're in for disappointment,
I really don't see him closing out with a satisfying conclusion even with 500 chapters, and it looks like he'll only do half that at best

[quaint trout]

We may get more chapters with story development amd less fights

Like the flashbacks of oden

[uneven wharf]

I guess, someone is bound to be disappointed no matter what right?
I was hoping for more info on stuff like the adam tree, or the other tree that gives rise to the special paper that nami uses, etc. I really love the worldbuilding stuff and the unique ideas he puts out, but it seems like we're less into that and more into the core of the story now

yes please, more chaden!

[quaint trout]

There are really a lot of things which would be nice to know about. And we really need an update from rever(l)y

[uneven wharf]

I wonder if he plans to open a new series and let his editors take over, to explain and open up more info into past events

would love to see akainu v aokiji for example

so he finishes the core story, and leaves his notes and just oversees with a light touch the other series that breaks down little parts of the story we didn't see in the core cannon

sort of like an archipelago of one piece events

[quaint trout]

I was dissapointed we didn't see it in the anime.

[uneven wharf]

right?!
I'm also disappointed in how short the zoro and sanji fights were with a commander
I was really hoping to see them struggle and be brought to near defeat multiple times the same way katakuri did

[quaint trout]

Yes, they looked so fast. Maybe because we only got fragments in multiple chapters

[uneven wharf]

forsure, that and the fact that if he spent a long time on each char, it would take forever

I was really hoping for just a brutal brawl sort of like enies lobby, this way the chars are forced to develop

but it's ok, we get the overall idea -- perhaps the anime can elaborate

[quaint trout]

They both got big powerups this arc. Zorro with enma and sanji with the raid suit and awakening

[uneven wharf]

it almost feels like they powered up faster than luffy did

you know one arc I would REALLY want? a space arc
something mirroring the adventerous feeling of skypeia

[muted ember]

I feel like we're going to the moon

[dire vector]

ngl, before the last 2 chapters I 100% assumed BM was gonna betray kaido and suck the soul out of him

im in a weird space of sad it didnt but glad abt what happened cause law and kid looked sick

[frigid bear]

She couldn’t get it out of jimbei, you think she’d be able to suck up Kaidos ?

[dire vector]

well this would be assuming luffy beats kaido and hes on the ground weakened and scared

then BM would be the final boss for luffy

[frigid bear]

Ah okay haha

[modest skiff]

We don't know what happened between her and Jinbe. We just know he escaped

[frigid bear]

I was just referring to the same cup return

[dire vector]

I think hes refrencing when jinbei left her crew and she coulnt get his soul

[fathom matrix]

OH, WHAT IF ONIGESHIMA ENDS UP LANDING ON ZUNISHA?

[frigid bear]

Speaking of though, these cover stories so far about what happened have been interesting!

[dire vector]

would be cool if an awakened soul soul fruit was that if you take some of the DF users life you get their fruit for said amount of time. like 1 yr of luffys life = 1 yr of gumu gumu no

[fathom matrix]

Maybe.

Maybe an awakening could allow you to pull out a devil fruit power and soul as a whole, or maybe seperate the power from the soul/body itself. But you can't use it.

So big mom can hold onto the gum gum fruit, but she can't combine the power with her body, or she would explode/die.

[dire vector]

I like the "every island is a zunesha" theory where theres a shit ton of elephants underwater

which in turn would make tamas fruit nuclear

[lapis panther]

Also, why is JoyBoy always in connection with more than gigantic things? Noah, Zunisha and an immense Strawhat

[dire vector]

now hear me out: hes a giant dude lol

[lapis panther]

That only explains the strawhat

[warped wagon]

Because he was running around with Luffys shadow in Thriller bark

[livid shuttle]

do you really think joyboy might be oars?

[dire vector]

no but that would be a cool theory, the giant straw hat probs fits

[lapis panther]

don't think anyone thinks that

[winged stirrup]

True

[lapis panther]

Nah, the strawhat actually isn't that big

[dire vector]

maybe hes from elbaf then

[lapis panther]

Not compared to Zunisha or the Noah

[warped wagon]

Strawhat frozen = oars frozen
Giant strawhat = ancient giant
Government has crazy addiction in making giants, maybe because there First and most dangerous enemy was an ancient giant

[livid shuttle]

hmm there is a giant D

[fathom matrix]

Zunisha could have been an experiment perhaps, but he got too big.

[winged stirrup]

True like the family of saul will be giants too so like more Giant Ds

[warped wagon]

Honestly I would love to see that, coz it would be wonderful foreshadwoing with Ruffys (who inheritet joyboys will) shadow in the Body of the real JoyBoy

[livid shuttle]

i wonder whether zoro actually died or not

[lapis panther]

By the way, does everyone still underestimate the giants on Elbaf just because Big Mom was able to wreck havoc as a child there?

[winged stirrup]

Nooo he can't

[dire vector]

im just saying, have we seen a giant w a df or haki yet? that sounds fucking terrifying

[vestal isle]

you would definitely know if zoro died, which he won't

[fathom matrix]

What if the crime Zunisha did was betray joyboy/the D clan/Kozuki clan 800 years ago? And he's following the orders of a kozuki and took the island on his back, to repent for that crime?

[dire vector]

imagine if harjuin got the mera mera no mi

[warped wagon]

Yeah I First thought JoyBoy D sauro but then thought that would be hella crazy to keep the ancestor of the biggest enemy of government as a normal Navy Admiral lmao

[livid shuttle]

hmmm perhaps he is like fighting death in a spiritual place perhaps

[lapis panther]

Haki most likely yes. Dorry and Brogy

[dire vector]

do we think enel will ever come back cause MAN I want him to just go nuts on the ocean

[vestal isle]

that might be cool. he could meet kuina lol

[livid shuttle]

yeah

[warped wagon]

Imo it would make JoyBoy/companions look very unsympathic for being so hateful

[livid shuttle]

and then zoro might become death itself/the king of death

[lapis panther]

Also, depending on how the standards were back in the day, Saul should probably have Haki as a Vice Admiral

[vestal isle]

i feel like i'm the only person who doesn't want enel to come back. i feel like he's just gonna buzz on the moon

[winged stirrup]

I mean we don't even know what is about his closed eye so hmmm

[warped wagon]

I mesn bis sword is Enma
King of the underworld

[fathom matrix]

I wouldn't say Joyboy/companions would do it to him, but more so he felt an immense amount of guilt and wanted to repent for what he did. Heck, Joyboy could have died or left by the time it happened to Zunisha

[quaint trout]

I think can use her soul power when people are scarred of her. Jimbei wasn't scared

[livid shuttle]

i thought that was when he was training

that definitely happened during his training

[vestal isle]

imo he was punished by the WG, not joyboy or his friends

[warped wagon]

Still hat Kind of Situation forces you to Commit a horrible betrayal on your friend and in the same Manner repay for it with eternal torture

[livid shuttle]

yeah

or maybe it wasnt a crime

[winged stirrup]

Yesyes but oda can't do it like yea he lost it you know what I mean. I guess it's some power up

[warped wagon]

Yeah thats what I think too

[livid shuttle]

i dont think so

[winged stirrup]

Wouldn't it be revealed?

[dire vector]

so do we think BM is dead, or is oda gonna pull a "pell"

[warped wagon]

It was revealed to be a normal wound through Training if I remember it correctly

[lapis panther]

Why don't you reply?

[livid shuttle]

how i see it, zunesha is arriving at wano just in time for luffys victory because how luffy is meant to be everything is perfect in time for him

[fathom matrix]

She's most likely not dead

[quaint trout]

I don't think she died

[warped wagon]

Pellen for sure

[fathom matrix]

maybe critically injured and out of it for a while

[dire vector]

wym

[winged stirrup]

Really when lul let me look

[livid shuttle]

oda never revealed why luffy got his x scar

[livid shuttle]

yeah it was

[fathom matrix]

that was because akainu's magma fist hit him when it went through jinbei

[warped wagon]

I hope its not like that, I dont like the "everything works so well, because Luffy is the chosen one"

[vestal isle]

Zunesha is likely based off the Wandering Jew, who was sentenced to roam the world after taunting Jesus on his way to crucifixion. He was told to wander until the Second Coming of Christ. I think Zunesha was forced to wander until the Second Coming of Joy Boy. But I think Oda is inverting the myth by making him one of Joy Boy's friends instead of an enemy.

[livid shuttle]

i think u were ovethinking zoros scar

[winged stirrup]

Yea I guess

[livid shuttle]

that is literally one piece tho

[vestal isle]

Like maybe Joy Boy forced Zunesha to commit a crime against him for some reason

[livid shuttle]

roger says himself that it was too early for him, telling us that there will be someone arriving just in time for everything

[vestal isle]

Luffy is the chosen one

[dire vector]

dragon ate a zoan fruit, a thunder bird which in native american folklore is able to change the weather

[livid shuttle]

interesting

[livid shuttle]

yes and it is soo tru

[fathom matrix]

or they committed it together and with a group, but Zunicha got the worse of it, cause he's stuck with an island on his back, forced to walk across the sea forever

[warped wagon]

Yet we only have inherited wills, not the chosen One has everything done for him because fate choose him

[vestal isle]

true, very possible

[fathom matrix]

Maybe Joyboy apologised to Posiden because he screwed up something, a plan to help her, but it ended up backfiring

[vestal isle]

yeah it's not Luffy has everything handed to him, it's that he is following the path of the chosen one by becoming the next joy boy and bringing the dawn of the world. certain things from the past are just bound to come along for that person

[warped wagon]

Yeah it could be fighting government lol, coz his Group is most likely JoyBoy group

[fathom matrix]

Most likely, yeah

[ripe geyser]

One piece was better when there was no "inherited will" and when anyone could've found the one piece. All the destiny and chosen one stuff sucks

[livid shuttle]

yeah luffy doesnt have everything handed to him but he still has a bunch of things that are

[fathom matrix]

it just depends how it's handled, but it's not handled poorly here

[warped wagon]

Because of that, I hope it doesnt go into the everything is perfectly done for the chosen One

[fathom matrix]

It's not the best and I will admit, I'm not 100%, but it's all mostly symbolism and coincidence for some of it, but it's not like there's an actual mystical being or divine god leading Luffy on this path

[livid shuttle]

yeah

[fathom matrix]

You could argue, any other D clan member with a similar will or personality like roger could have filled Luffy's shoes, but Luffy was just the mosy successful

[warped wagon]

Yeah for me Symbolism and stuff like that is different to being the chosen One

[fathom matrix]

Maybe every 100 years there's a new "Joyboy" but Luffy's just the most successful

[ripe geyser]

It probably will. It seems like only people who wear a particular hat can find the one piece, or have a chance to. Knowing that Roger had Luffy's hat and then the giant one in mariejois made me lose hope

[warped wagon]

I stay hopeful and see how the Story resolves

[fathom matrix]

Unless it has a really bad outcome, I don't judge it too much

[ripe geyser]

But the idea that it could only be people from a specific clan or race is what spoils the adventure. Anyone should have a chance at being pirate king

[fathom matrix]

I agree that everything doesn't need to be a big thing (Zoro can be a nobody who became a somebody, I think that's cooler), but even the "destiny" can work, if it's portrayed/handled well

but it's perfectly fine not to like it

[fathom matrix]

everyone else and everyone has. Like, not every D member creates a pirate crew and becomes king

it's not a pre-determined destiny

it's chance, luck, strategy and will power

heck, Luffy almost died many times

[ripe geyser]

Or it could be something to do with reincarnation, maybe that's why Luffy says and does things similar to Roger

[winged stirrup]

But the near death only made him stronger

[fathom matrix]

but he norrowly escaped death and needed months of recovery, even losing 2-3 times sometimes.

[livid shuttle]

or maybe its about what the person is pursuing

anyhow is it just me or is zoro chopped in half in 1040

does that require a spoiler btw?

[fathom matrix]

Looks like his body's finally just fucked up and he's out of it

[livid shuttle]

yeah

[fathom matrix]

Honestly, he could be a coma for a while.

[livid shuttle]

in a certain panel it looks like zoro might be out of his body

[fathom matrix]

I could see the WG leaving after Zunisha probably wipes them away or something

and they spend a couple of weeks or a week at wano recovering

[ripe geyser]

At the end of Luffy's fight everyone will be done and unable to fight, I doubt the WG will just leave. They'll probably bring an admiral and loads of marines to get rid of everyone in one swoop. It's their best chance to get rid of 2 of the Yonko for good as well as ending the new generation before they take off

And of course take control of Wano while it's weak

[short folio]

since wano only has 1 point of entrance at this point i think zunesha will block or defend that preventing the WG from entering wano

[frigid bear]

But anyone can ? All they need to do is obtain all the road poneglyphs … and then they’ve learnt the entire history and become PK the only thing they can’t do is whatever the OnePiece is and is waiting for, like Roger..

[frigid bear]

Onigashima landing on zunesha has probably got to be one of my favourite possibilities

Does anyone think cp0 will actually catch robin ?

[warped wagon]

You guys forget Zou on zunesha lol?

How should Onigashima Land in zunesha

[frigid bear]

Well we know momo doesn’t want it to land on Wano, (I’m going to exclude the ocean) zunesha I assume is big enough for onigashima to land on and momo is keeping onigashima afloat and can coordinate with zunesha….

Plus Zou has already been put to ruins

I can see Momo asking the minks to live in Wano if/when he becomes shogun also

[cerulean thistle]

guys, is there any theories regarding "two sovereign"??

[frigid bear]

One of them is princess shirahoshi right ?

[sand sail]

Yep. The other is either Luffy or Momonosuke, probably momo

[vapid minnow]

Could be Nami too because we seen her speak with Shirahoshi who said Nami seems familiar. Also the whales were already happy when the Straw Hats were leaving FMI. And we still don’t have any explanations with her weather predicting powers

[tired osprey]

Nami said she seems familiar? I must have completely missed this

do you have a pic or link, chapter no?

because we like to think Nami as a normal human, but she does have a super human sense of weather and weather changes

[vapid minnow]

yeah so when they’re talking about Otohime. Nami kind of comforts Shirahoshi and says that, it’s meant to be seen as since they have similar upbringings with losing their mothers and fishmen problems. But ironically then if that’s true Shirahoshi has special powers, so what about Nami?

[tired osprey]

Oh ok, I see

[vapid minnow]

Also there are different translations to what Shirahoshi says, pretty sure Viz translation is a bit different from the Spanish version and the anime version

[tired osprey]

well, Nami did have an ability that was sought after by arlong, not nearly as powerful or important as shirahoshi but still...

[vapid minnow]

Well here’s the thing Vivi also recognized that power, she literally says it’s like Nami feels the weather in her body

[vapid minnow]

Imo it’s because Nami is the Second Sovereign, she’s gonna be the centerpiece for many things by the end of the story. I just think Nami’s power and her reasoning for being a self taught Navigator are very vague. Also although it’s considered filler, Shiki wanted Nami because of her power and we know Shiki’s canon past had him want to be in possession of an ancient weapon. Maybe Oda is giving the hints and just downplaying them until we reach the final arcs. That’s some of my headcanon

[frigid bear]

Imo it’s shirahoshi and Luffy, the sea kings mention their sovereign is soon to be born and another in a distant sea. (This basically shuts off Momo due to his age) they also say “meet again” and “surely all will go well this time”… we know shirahoshi is Poseidon, and from what we do know about the history of One Piece, is that Joy Boy failed to keep his promise to her. So maybe this time round things will go smoothly, and assuming Luffy is the reincarnate of Joy Boy then he too is the other Sovereign. Pretty sure the promise was about the migration of fishman right ? And then there was the future that Shyarly saw of Luffy

I like the idea of nami having a latent ability though, but I feel like the sovereign is a massive role

[little kelp]

any theories on Wano's importance?

[amber oar]

I recall reading an theory that suggested Wano is the Ancient Kingdom, or at least its remnants
One of the clues was the way Oden worded his narration upon the arrival of Laugh Tale. He mentions learning about the D clan, the Ancient Weapons, but not the Ancient Kingdom, and instead goes to mention Wano was open to the world. Bear in mind he's writing for his vassals, who would take Wano for granted.

Found it. I'm not fully sold on it but it's intriguing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/q5xnsz/wano_is_the_ancient_kingdom_long_theory_let_me/

Either way there's something curious about this panel - TCB and other scanlations decided to translate it that way, I'm not in position to question their translating decisions for this. However, according to spoiler summaries, early rough translations, and corroborated by a translator's note in a Spanish version, the exact wording in this panel was "Is it in this country too?"
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/941872171607789588/FLUWCk-XsAAFA2-.jpg

Her words somewhat imply a "part" of the One Piece is in Wano, but that would contradict Roger's words that "it's all in that place".

Or maybe she just refers to the Rio/Real Poneglyph, which is composed by 9 poneglyphs scattered in the world, but whose message doesn't become complete until you arrive to Laugh Tale. There's a good chance one of the Real Poneglyphs is indeed in Wano. There's one poneglyph hidden in the Shogun's mansion, and another in Onigashima (the one Law found), and neither of them is the Road Poneglyph. So one of those two may be a Real Poneglyph.

[proud tree]

https://youtu.be/t3nI5QcxHmA?t=838 ... he mentions how Joyboy had a pirate crew, and his top 3 commanders where Pluton, Poseidon and Uranus. Kaido also has 3 commanders with titles instead: Wildfire, Plague, Draught.

Who where the people who called the ancient weapons weapons? And how did they leave behind One Piece? ... I think he means whoever won against the ancient kingdom.

[amber oar]

Except Pluton is a ship and that's already well established

[proud tree]

we know ships can have a living soul, and so a ship can be a companion in a pirate crew

So the ancient weapon/ship Pluton could have had a Klabautermann as well

someone like Joyboy (probably the ultimate pirate of ancient times) would know how to care well for his ship

[vapid minnow]

I wonder how someone can speak to Klabautermann? And I mean directly speaking to them

[proud tree]

voice of all things / observation Haki? ... but Usopp did not have Observation Haki back in Skypia right?

[vapid minnow]

We don’t know haki manifests over time, so maybe this was an early indicator for haki. Like how Zoro had an episode of haki in Alabasta

[steady dust]

A lot of characters have shown observation haki by accident or were born with it, and since Desrossa we now that Ussop has quite a latent CoA, so it's not far fetched to assume he saw Merry thanks to it

But... haki(mantra)/VoaT was probably still an early concept so it could just be the spirit deciding to show itself

I'm excited to see the Sunny's spirit

[reef sandal]

it would seem to me that if a klabautermann's invested will is strong enough, one doesn't need advanced ability to sense will to be able to comprehend that will
it may also be an exception because usopp is one of the people who put his will into the merry, so there would be something familiar about it for him to interpret

[vapid minnow]

I agree because Merry speaks and everyone heard her talking, however nobody but Usopp actually saw her manifest into a physical figure. That’s what I am mainly questioning here, it could be that the Klabutermann’s will is strong enough to interact with the world on its own through voice.

Just like how Roger says the Poneglyphs were “trying to speak to him”, but there seems to be a level of communication above that requires the human’s willpower to be strong enough to physically see the Klabautermann

Point being if the Klaubermann are somehow Void Century/Joyboy related then it could mean there are ways to communicate with other remnants like the Ancient Weapons, the Poneglyphs, etc.

[reef sandal]

i don't think that it needs to be related to the void century, as it seems a very similar case to the other supernatural phenomena that involve the imposition and understanding of will
a klabautermann is just the manifestation of a crew's will to maintain their ship, just as a sword's curse is a manifestation of its maker's will for it to kill and just as the voice coming from the poneglyphs is a manifestation of their carver's will to have their message be heard

[vapid minnow]

Right it doesn’t necessarily have to all be linked historically, but supernaturally they’re all likely connected through people enforcing their wills onto physical objects.

Another thing that the latest chapter makes me question is if people can exert will onto objects, then can it also be possible for people who are strong enough to exert their own will onto intangible objects like time? For example is Roger’s will so powerful that all these events in One Piece are playing out because he’s enforcing his will to the point it transcends time and shape the future? Similarly could Shanks or Dragon exert such will to sway certain events to occur. Also Luffy who exerts his will and somehow “lucks” out from dying?

[reef sandal]

i think the great pirate era is more easily explained as roger imposing his will on the people that were in his vicinity during his execution, because we know he had haoshoku haki (the ability to impose one's will on others)
his words were also just inspiring on their own

he wouldn't need to exert his will on something so nebulous as time when there are perfectly good people to grow in influence to exert his will after his death

we also haven't seen precedent for infusing will on nebulous concepts, just other things that have will and treasured objects

[vapid minnow]

That’s true and actually goes with what Big Mom was saying about Roger influencing the next era. Like it seems Roger’s goal was to create this era for someone to surpass him. That’s a greater long term exertion on will that also relies on the hearts of the people adventuring onto the sea.

However people like Dragon & Shanks might be intentionally “steering the ship” for this Great Era, like it could be possible for Will power or Advanced Haki to where someone can physically shift time and events into their convenience. That could explain how Dragon and Shanks suddenly appear at specific moments of the story. Like will might be bendable enough that it cam transcend the physical reality and also take form to shape the intangible.

[reef sandal]

that would somewhat defy the magic system we've been given so far with haki
for someone to exert enough will on their surroundings that they affected time they would need to have more will than monkey d luffy by an incredibly wide margin
which at that point is indescribable if not inconceivable

it's such an off-the-charts endpoint to the magic system that it isn't within the bounds of the amount of ability we've been shown by the strongest people in one piece by any stretch

the reason for dragon being where he needs to be when he needs to be there could just boil down to a combination of an information network, luck, and capability

and for shanks showing up when he needs to, i can't think of a time where that can't be taken at face value

[vapid minnow]

yeah but we really haven’t seen the strongest people go all out yet. I wouldn’t really discern the possibility that the magic system dives even deeper than we have fathomed thus far. The VOAT is still a newer concept that has yet to be given a real explanation of its power and to what extents. As well as the possibility of combining advanced haki, voat, and anything else related.

Don’t forget advanced observation lets you see into the future, so the stronger you train that then the more perceptive you’re bound to be. Luffy is inching near the top of the strongest and already has the ability to foresee certain events. It’s definitely not improbable to believe those even higher can showcase more capabilities and manipulation around their surroundings.

[reef sandal]

it's one thing to look at time and another thing entirely to breach it

[vapid minnow]

yup and that could be where the next stages of haki or the Voat can lead a person

[reef sandal]

we've seen the voice of all things basically as refined attunement to the will of others, and to speculate that it might branch into time control is frankly a little absurd

and with haki, we've seen 3 things
understanding of will
imposition of will on oneself
imposition of will on other individuals
these are all related to people's wills as the origins of power
time is very much not so

future sight haki can be understood as extreme attunement to the intent of surrounding individuals

[vapid minnow]

yeah and who is to say it’s not possible to go further beyond your haki just imposing on the individuals? If hypothetically the ceiling is higher then the next step is a broader enforcement on the world and not just events the individual wielder deals with. Their reach may be far greater to effect events indirectly related to them or their goals. But those indirect involvement can be shifted to benefit those wielders long term

Like Roger’s impact on the world practically branched off into an entire new era that includes him the posthumous. He’s more of a nobler cause for that implementation, as well as Whitebeard. They were more humble, but now if someone has that much will to the extreme extents then they can seriously do some damage.

[reef sandal]

roger was not by any means humble
he became the pirate king because his will was basically unrivaled

[vapid minnow]

Humble as in like he was a good person

[reef sandal]

i see

well luffy's will is much the same as roger's, and similar in strength. we saw WB and roger clash, both near their primes in terms of strength, and the ceiling of power seemed to be advanced applications of imposing one's will on oneself and others
there was nothing to indicate imposition of will on random surroundings or nebulous concepts, just a contest of who was more willing to win. if that was not the ceiling, that means whitebeard and roger had weak wills. roger was able to affect the next era because of planning and influence on a select few individuals which branched out towards the whole world as inspiration
he didn't affect time to make the great pirate era, because the foundation of the great pirate era is not the time that it consists of, it's the people

you don't need to have time superpowers to influence the world, because the world is made of people and haki already has built into it people superpowers

[vapid minnow]

no that’s what I’m saying though like Roger and Whitebeard should be able to reach that point of capabilities to have direct effect on time, but like their fight was more of a squabble than them going all out against each other. I don’t think we saw those two full power.

My thing is Roger & WB could have manipulated time themselves but chose a more humble approach and relied on the people of the world to carry on their wills. That showcases that they still indirectly impacted time and guided the new era. However people who aren’t as humble could possibly be deceitful enough to bend the will of others and the intangible like time and place to where it favors their own selfish desires. Like it explains how Blackbeard might be able to be so lucky and gain power so fast. As well as Shanks or Dragon suddenly appearing at specific events. These people are moreso guiding the era with their own intentions and self reliance.

[reef sandal]

what i'm saying is how does it follow whatsoever to be able to control time from being able to impose and understand the will of people

blackbeard didn't get lucky, he made and executed a plan

shanks and dragon don't need supernatural abilities to show up at important events in the manner that they do, they just need a network which is well within their power to have

[vapid minnow]

Well no they all don’t need it, but I’m saying it’s possible that is the final level of cognitive powers along the lines of advanced haki and voat. Somewhere along those lines you are strong enough to already impose your will and understand the will of others.

Being able to control time per say is what makes it a rare transcendence, like the wielders willpower has succumbed to a point to where most people will be easily swayed by their ambitions and actively be influenced. It’s like a domino effect where one push and then the momentum shifts in favor of the strongest. That’s why Mihawk highlights Luffy’s greatest strength is easily gaining allies, that willpower is transcending to where time and destiny are shifting in his favor and gain a massive following @reef sandal

[grand walrus]

is this a joke?

[lean pine]

No.

[grand walrus]

is this evidence of nami getting monet's fruit?

[reef sandal]

well now you're not even talking about time, you're just talking about luffy's luck being supernatural
which i will absolutely hear an argument for that being as a result of him imposing his will on his surroundings, but i don't know whether or not i'll agree

[lean pine]

He's lucky because he's a main character

All stories require the character to be somewhat lucky Luffy also just works hard but it's not like he's supernaturally lucky

[reef sandal]

repeated attention has been drawn to how incredibly lucky luffy is

within the story itself

[lean pine]

Lot of his luck comes from him being able to bring people to him and how he gains allies

[reef sandal]

here i found a thing compiling a bunch of his extreme lucky moments
https://imgur.com/a/azK1CDM

[vapid minnow]

well yeah Luffy imposes will in his surroundings, everywhere he goes he gains followers and greatly influences them. Something more transcending time is like Shanks giving Luffy the hat and setting him on the journey for some ulterior motive. Also Dragon letting Luffy go to the Grand Line and accepting him as a pirate is also an example of transcending time.

As they’re both placing direct influence on him and indirectly influencing the world through Luffy’s actions throughout the story. It accommodates to their own personal goals to whatever they may be.

[reef sandal]

your latter two examples don't at all seem like transcending time to me

influence of will is obviously persistent in objects, no reason to think it wouldn't be persistent in people
and the strawhat very well could be a vessel for the will of roger and shanks

[grand walrus]

is it possible that luffys luck is linked to his devil fruit? like the devil fruit makes you inherently more resilient. Put it this way, what if the fruit is not actually the rubber fruit but actually the "bounce back" fruit, and it's actually an OP top 5 fruits in the verse that makes you very hard to kill

[reef sandal]

narratively that would go against what oda's said in the past about wanting luffy to just be a silly rubber man even in serious situations
if his fruit was special and op by its very nature it would cheapen luffy's character and his creativity in giving himself power

[vapid minnow]

I hope Luffy’s fruit isn’t special

especially if it ends up as the Oil Oil fruit

[grand walrus]

something is special, not sure what it is

[vapid minnow]

changing Luffy’s fruit would feel like a retcon

[white gazelle]

so big mom might get another boatload of amnesia to maybe help SH to get out of wano

[grand walrus]

Another thing, if zoro survives, what is the explanation of that? like zoro has had his own string of good luck hasn't he? why are both zoro and luffy lucky?

[modest skiff]

My baseless theory is that Luffy has an innate ability to increase the luck of himself and Blackbeard has the innate ability to decrease the luck of his enemies. Throughout the story, that sort of thing happens

I think it is linked to conq haki in some way

[reef sandal]

i think that innate ability would have to not be unique to them yeah
rather a manifestation of their will in different measures

[modest skiff]

I believe conq haki has an ability to warp the world to the users will in a way that has not been explained yet

[reef sandal]

luffy wills himself to win and blackbeard wills his opponents to lose

[vapid minnow]

also possibly voat, if you scroll up we were just having a whole conversation about this

[reef sandal]

voice of all things makes way less sense because that one is interpretation of will rather than imposition of will

[modest skiff]

Yeah, I agree with that. I think it is the reason conq haki is a big deal in the OP universe. There are a very small number of people who understand the full extent of conq haki power. There is cocting and whatnot, but I think there is something that goes beyond it, where you essentially bend the universe to what you want it to be

[grand walrus]

do you think weevil is a conquerors user? since he is also kind of lucky and dominating

[reef sandal]

i think weevil doesn't have enough of his own will to have conqueror's haki
he just has raw power

[vapid minnow]

yeah I can agree to that, I just wouldn’t fully dismiss it yet as we don’t know it’s full extent. And even if it’s alone just for interpretation purposes that goes hand to hand with imposition since you’ll be able to tell whenever one’s will directly conflicts with your own

[reef sandal]

well obviously you need to sense other people's will to be able to influence it with your own but the voice of all things only listens to the things that have voices

it's for communication between parties, indirectly or not
it isn't for gaining power or winning battles

[modest skiff]

I think Luffy specifically calling out to Momo shows that Luffy has a unique ability to transmit and Momo has a unique ability to receive

Luffy wasn't trying to reach out to anyone else. I think Luffy was essentially able to sense Momo's ability to receive his message