#manga-theories

1 messages · Page 187 of 1

muted ember
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The manga doesn't contradict it tho lol

ancient vault
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better shot even

unknown.png
ancient vault
sand sail
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It wouldn't be King

modest skiff
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Thanks swrml for looking that up and verifying. Your scholarly qualities continue to shine

sand sail
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It's just a joke about how drunk people get lol

ancient vault
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I think so too tbh. Dont see the point in King having been in baratie

sand sail
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As in bloodshot eyes

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Probably spilled a drink on himself and lit himself on fire accidentally too lol

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I wouldn't be surprised if Oda used that as inspiration for King later, but it wouldn't have been him there

grizzled fog
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A 20ft tall man in a gimp suit would be of slightly more note than his eyes turning red I’d imagine

muted ember
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Ppl can change clothes

sand sail
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Pffft fuck the gimp suit

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the 8 foot wingspan is probably more noticeable

modest skiff
grizzled fog
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sure, there’s not technically anything explicitly preventing king from having been in the east blue years ago, there’s just not much reason to think it was him in the baratie. It was a gag. You can think it if you want and there’s not really any way to actually deconfirm it

muted ember
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Being 20 ft tall is rare but not too out there in the OP world

fathom matrix
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Oda is very subtle and peeps can miss things until they're revealed.

LIKE how when Luffy says "people in cold counries never sleep, because they'll die" was most likely a reference to how Blackbeard never sleeps and either killed Thatch in his sleep or he killed him when everyone else was sleeping.

So it's never 100% accurate, but it's bits and pieces that are interesting

sand sail
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It's a decent leap putting that to Thatch as well

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But Blackbeard's not from a cold country

grizzled fog
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It’s quite out there, aside from people that are actual giants there are very few people in this series who crack 20 feet lol, not like him being on fire all the time, having giant wings and the whole bdsm getup is insignificant either

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What luffy said about people in cold countries not sleeping wasnt even true no? He heard that from a guy in a bar

fathom matrix
sand sail
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"It's Oda" doesn't really mean much though

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There are plenty of throwaway things in the series

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Especially early on like that

modest skiff
sand sail
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It goes right up there with "anything is possible" for me LUL

ancient vault
grizzled fog
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Even if it’s possible, it’s quite easily rare enough to make note of

weak arrow
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Can argue Oda has just gotten more creative with body shapes since starting the series

modest skiff
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Just realized King wouldn’t be able to sit down in Baterie and would need to sit outside lol

sand sail
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He'd also probably light the place on fire

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Oh shit, yeah he really wouldn't be there, he was already in Wano with Kaido by the time all that would've been going down LUL

modest skiff
muted ember
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Maybe they just didn't recite every detail about this person when they're telling the story

modest skiff
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My take on this topic: It was likely a reference to King's character design, but we know Oda has swapped character designs based on his original plans in the past. It could be a character he never used. It could be King. It could be a million things. I think it was referring to King, but I think its totally possible it wasn't meant to be king.

If we wanna go Galaxy Brain on this topic: the guy at Baterie could have been referring to ANOTHER Lunarian, completely unrelated to King

muted ember
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I like the 2nd Lunarian idea too but I think it's King

modest skiff
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If we are strict about King being identical in both idea and form in 49 as current (this feels pretty wild tbh) King can't fit in Baterie. So if we are taking this as seriously as we can, it is worth pointing out it must have been another Lunarian. But there's just so many question marks I don't think that level of rigor/specificity is appropriate. I'm with you, Tray, I think this was a reference to King. King could fly around the world whenever he wants. He could be in Wano one day and Red Line the next.

ancient vault
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another lunarian would also have wings and im pretty sure king being tall is due to his race

modest skiff
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Correct me if I am wrong, but IIRC Oda has basically given us a world where someone of the same race can be anywhere from 0-20 ft tall. King could be a huge Lunarian, a small Lunarian, or an average Lunarian. We've only met one so far (that we know of..!)

ancient vault
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yeah true but the wing argument is still there and so is the flame in the back

muted ember
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He can probably not have the flame if he doesn't want to

sand sail
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Can't unwing himself, though

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They'd absolutely mention the wings lol

modest skiff
# muted ember He can probably not have the flame if he doesn't want to

My impression at this moment is that suppressing fire requires suppressing emotions. I think that is why he is so stone cold at all times. He basically has to focus on not being a giant nuclear bomb. So that's why when people betrayed Kaido, King basically lit the entire area on fire

muted ember
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I don't see why they have to mention any of that stuff it's their story

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They can tell it how they want to

modest skiff
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If King used to be a slave, it is conceivable he had his wings clipped and the current wings he has are artificial, perhaps a prosthetic, created by Queen. Also possible when King was at Baterie, he was trying to hide his Lunarian ancestry, so he withdrew his wings into a cloak or something. But then his steak was over cooked, so he exploded.

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I am perhaps entertaining this theory more than I should, but I think this is all reasonable. If we know Lunarians were hunted, and we know King has very poor emotional control, the people at Baterie may have assumed the person died when they exploded. The plume of smoke could have been large enough for King to just immediately fly away before anyone knew what happened as soon as the explosion happened. So let's say King had a cloak on, got pissed off for some reason, exploded, was like "ah shit lol" and just flew away without a trace. This feels mechanistically possible

sand sail
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Well, King's emotions have never really been tied to his fires so far

modest skiff
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Perhaps we are reading the scene where he gets mad at the traitors differently then

sand sail
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It's actually pretty heavily against it, because we do see that he's incredibly pissed in one of the recent chapters, and he doesn't use his fire at all. He just goes wild with wind slashes everywhere instead

modest skiff
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When he gets mad at the traitors, he loses his cool and ends up ALSO damaging the people who did not betray Kaido. He just levels the whole area. He doesn't only ignite the traitors

sand sail
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Which scene was this?

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When he and Queen are together?

modest skiff
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ah crap I'm terrible at finding panels but let me try

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When he is like "YOU WORTHLESS TRAITORS >:[ "

sand sail
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I'm drawing a blank on that one, is it the one where like Marco's all exhausted and Sanji's just beaten to hell trying to handle the two of them?

modest skiff
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I don't remember any other context other than it being explicitly stated "hey, stop that, you're not just harming the traitors, you are harming our allies too"

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I'm starting on chapter 1023 and working my way forward lol <_<

sand sail
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I don't even know why I specified the scene, honestly I can't remember where that chapter is either LUL

modest skiff
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This is not our fault. The last 20 chapters have been complete pandemonium.

grizzled fog
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That scene is in 1022

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I’m assuming you mean this?

image0.jpg
muted ember
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King is too clean

modest skiff
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I think that's the general area? lmao that is hilarious because I started on 1023 and have been reading up from there T_T thank you Vemqi

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In that scene, he is also harming allies and IIRC it is specified somewhere that he was harming allies.

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I'm going on a walk with my family but I'll be back later and will dig it up or see if I'm full of crap

abstract pond
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Sometimes I forget people die in One Piece. Then you see King executing a random guy by burning his head

near osprey
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Fodder mostly

muted ember
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Did Zoro kill 100 bounty hunters in Whiskey Peak?

near osprey
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I believe so yeah.

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Honestly wonder what the kill count is for each SH Member.

muted ember
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I like to think he did but idk

near osprey
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I mean probably doesn't matter either way as the series is still geared towards children.

sinful helm
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robin highest

muted ember
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Zoro the only confirmed killer imo

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Robin said her specialty is assassination but she has an incredibly dark sense of humor

near osprey
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I'd say Luffy has the largest kill count than anyone else on the crew.

muted ember
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Nah Luffy doesn't kill ppl

near osprey
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I'd imagine his punches are very life threatening to normal people

muted ember
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He knows how to hold back on fodder

near osprey
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I mean considering him Law and Kidd made a ship blow up at the beginning of Onigashima

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and the countless ships he's sunked

muted ember
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Explosions are super survivable in One Piece

near osprey
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Sure if you have a name

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But I think Luffy's punches are supposed to carry the force of a gun so I can't imagine everyone he's punched were simply knocked out.

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The force of his punches would cause insane head trauma

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Maybe Pre-Timeskip Luffy knocked em out but Post Luffy? Definitely has killed numerous people.

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But it's kinda irrelevant anyways as it's not expressed that way from the manga or anime perspective

little kelp
sand sail
near osprey
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Crazy that Wano's well over 120 chapters already can't imagine we'll have another arc that goes over 100 chapters after Wano

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Then again Oda has a lot of story shit to get through especially if he intends on ending it in four arcs.

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But once we leave Elbaf I'd imagine that would be the last batch of characters that are introduced before we head into the juicy stuff.

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If JoyBoy is a Giant maybe we'd get more info on him before LaughTale

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Still hard to believe Luffy is actually going to be a Yonko never ever actually really thought about when we'd reach this point, Kinda impatient about reaching the end of the series but it's been an incredible journey either way

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Oda's been winding up since Wano started and dropping outside events in between every act during Wano. Shits probably going to be massive by the time the Onigashima Act ends and we enter the Final Wano Act before we leave assuming it'll be four acts instead of five.

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Also @sand sail now that One Piece Red has been announced do you think he'll show up Post Onigashima?

modest skiff
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intending this and that is all meaningless and not worth including in any calculations or theories or anything IMO

near osprey
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and that's including post whatever the final arc is.

modest skiff
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I hope we get another 100+ arc because all the 100+ arcs have been outstanding. But I won't elaborate because discussions relating to potential story length don't feel like a good fit for this channel

near osprey
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Especially considering how old Luffy's VA is

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I'd like OP to end in the next decade

modest skiff
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I got nothing going on in a decade that will prevent me from reading One Piece chapters once a week

near osprey
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Same but we're also not about to reach 70 years of age.

junior cape
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I just don't want Oda to work himself into an early grave.

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Anyways, I think the people of Wano are gonna notice the giant fuck-off island floating in the sky towards them soon, and panic will set in in the next few chapters.

hidden tinsel
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Yo i was thinking, what if the red ribbon around the straw hat represents the red line, and whomever has the hat is tasked to destroy it. WapolTriggered

muted valley
muted valley
junior cape
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Yeah, age means nothing in the VA world, as long as you can speak.

muted valley
junior cape
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Yup

muted ember
muted valley
# muted ember I was just saying I like his character design

Ohhhhh, Gotcha my B, I wasnt thinking of it in a slang term but a literal term and was really confused.

But yeah, 100% agree he has a really good design. Reflects what we know about him pretty well IMO. I am sure that as we learn more itll explain his design choice.

muted valley
glass perch
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Blackbeard is going to use Geocko Moira’s DF and Hogback to make a zombie Ace. Calling it.

weak plaza
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Ohhh!!! Yeah Sanji seem to be a hybrid dna

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Theory theory fun fun is here

Zoro final ending story war. The three sword break and Zoro awaken an invisible imagination sword into reality through his unbreakable will as a sword man. a sword that invincible to the eyes could cut through air, time and space. Or anything he hold could become a great sword even a small branch of tree.
Sword god Zoro.

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We once see Zoro lock (stun) his opponent in time and space with his ability after time skip and slice her

desert hatch
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when oda flat out says ushimaru isnt zoros father in the sbs😂😂

muted valley
quiet nimbus
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Is oda trying to annihilate dinosaurs (ancient Zoan users ) by a meteor ( onigashima ) ... Same as when dinosaurs were annihilated from earth xd ..

severe edge
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yea the power up sanji got could've been executed better like in the case of luffy getting future sight that was one of the best power up executions i've seen

muted valley
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I don't think Oda will write himself in a corner. Like Naruto with its horrible and not thought out powerlevel scaling.

It's been shown consistently that we havnt seem the top, only glimpses of what possibilities there are. While Oda also relies on creativity more than naruto for battles and BS asspulls. Worst thing OP did was how it implemented Haki and has based alot of it around it. But even that isn't bad in comparison.

severe edge
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sanji just got the power ups like nothing i get that it fits with his character to be able to get out his own limits and figure out he can do more op shit in no time but it just doesn't feel that good i was hoping for a more pressured sanji after he gave up the raid suit

muted valley
severe edge
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as i said it fits his character it's just not executed as well as say zoro and luffy even just showing the power up for example in the case of zoro and killer that pressure on zoro when he used that move could be felt by the readers in this situation the dramatic pressure is just not there now it might be cause we're reading weekly and if you were to read the entire wano arc at once it would feel better but even considering everything else that had happened yet i'd have assumed a bit more pressure than what the chapter had

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tho if i do go back that's just how the 1st parts of sanji fights play out sort of it's in the 2nd half where sanji really gets cornered usually

muted valley
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I disagree, Sanji never has been one to be fully pushed into a corner like Zoro or Luffy before he surpasses himself. His fights almost always are more gag based and go into his own psyche.

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He always has been one to help support after his fights too, where he can't be on the brink of death to do so. So far it's been almost always that way with him and his fights.

Him getting nearly killed and having his powers start comming out as he goes through some sort of mental thing before he gets pissed and pulls out something and wins is pretty on par with how it's always been.

We also havnt seen them pushed to the edge for a long time. Well except luffy vs Doffy.

austere meteor
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So it was revealed in the SBS that Shimotsuki Ushimaru is not Zoro's father. Then do you think they're related or it's just s random similarity like between Luffy and Roger?

opaque ember
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Plasma lightning like this occurs at temperatures inside the sun its possible he has some sun level flames now
so its ether my theory or haki

SPOILER_unknown.png unknown.png
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if this ends up being correct power scaliers will have a field day

austere meteor
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If Sanji has Sun level flames, Queen is probably dead

opaque ember
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yeah lol

muted valley
amber oar
muted ember
drowsy marsh
muted ember
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I have a theory about the mouse lol I think it will lead Sanji to Denjiro, or it's Denjiro himself

drowsy marsh
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Denjiro the mouse?

muted ember
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The Robin Hood of Japan, Nezumi Kozo (rat boy), is the inspiration for the Witching Hour Boy, Denjiro

drowsy marsh
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Interesting theory

amber oar
drowsy marsh
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Wouldn't make sense for Denjiro to just chill with the geishas while the other scabbards are dying

ancient vault
opaque ember
ancient vault
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How? Sanjis flames could be blue. Since he says its hotter

muted ember
opaque ember
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its not about the color its about the plasma

ancient vault
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And the haki lightning could be white since red haki is usually shaded black in the manga (check luffy vs doffy)

opaque ember
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sanji does not have confermed conqurers haki

ancient vault
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Where do you see plasma? All i see is flames and haki

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Thats normal armanent haki. It can still be another color

opaque ember
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the lighning is most likely plasma if its not haki

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armament does not make lighning

ancient vault
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Yes it does

opaque ember
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lol no it does not that conquers

ancient vault
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Yes, it does. What conquerors does is like liquid haki that emits out of ur coated arm

opaque ember
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maybe but that looks like conqueres

amber oar
ancient vault
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How does this look like conquerors? Jinbei or sanji

opaque ember
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both

ancient vault
opaque ember
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luffy has conqures

ancient vault
muted ember
ancient vault
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This is COC

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What jinbei and sanji did is armanent haki unless you want to argue sanji and jinbei have coc

opaque ember
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he has armament but this could also be plasma

solemn ruin
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maybe sanji made his leg so hot it was almost like plasma

opaque ember
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thats what im saying

solemn ruin
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ye, basically how sanji himself put it in the chapter

ancient vault
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Yeah ig possible

solemn ruin
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I wonder if this be where queen loses for now

opaque ember
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if it is plasma that would give him some crazy high damage

muted ember
ancient vault
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Hotter flames at some point could end in plasma tho

amber oar
opaque ember
solemn ruin
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but hold up what the heckle is this plot about sanji hitting a woman but wait it was queen all along

opaque ember
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yeah cuz queen ripped of judge

muted ember
solemn ruin
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i think onigashima gonna fall in like the next 10 chapters

ancient vault
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Im hoping the fight isnt over yet.

Last round:

  • Queen goes ape shit and uses all germa abilities at once to trigger sanji.
  • Sanji gets so angry he activates hell memories with way hotter flames
  • Maybe he sets queen on fire and maybe melts his metal
muted valley
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Sanji was caught up in his bad headspace

Queen caused her to get hurt

Sanji freaks out cause he was already thinking he would hurt a woman

ancient vault
muted ember
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He destroyed the raid suit for no reason too

ancient vault
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He wouldve done it either way tho. He didnt like using it

muted valley
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I'm kinda glad he did, I didn't want sanji to use a raid suit as his new power up.

I wonder tho, if this new power up puts him above his bros wearing a raid suit

solemn ruin
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oh snap wait this means king might be able to use poison breath

muted ember
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He did like using it he took it to the bath house and said he would get Franky to customize it, meaning at one point he planned on wearing it again

solemn ruin
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and he is called the plague

muted ember
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He destroyed it bc he thought he was losing his emotions

ancient vault
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For his friends if he needed to

muted ember
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Peeping in the bath house was for his friends?

ancient vault
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But yh ig at least in this moment it was for no reason and he got fooled

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Thats sth else that oda shouldnt have included UsoppDisgust

muted ember
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But it was, and Sanji wore the suit purely for his own pleasure

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Literally he used it to accomplish one of his life's dreams

amber oar
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Sanji was legit gathering info and peeped in the bath house as a side activity

wJmwMUlkOXIlwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png
mortal field
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You think Queen will do Black Bug?

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Since that is a move all the three brothers do, also aye shout out to fire upgrade

sinful helm
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i think sanji should be imune too poisons

muted ember
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The context doesn't change the fact he used the raid suit for personal enjoyment

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Or that he destroyed the suit over faulty reasoning

muted valley
# muted ember He destroyed it bc he thought he was losing his emotions

Yes it's also because he thought the tech was awakening his genes. That he didn't want to use the suit if it ment continued use would turn him into his brother's. That he was unaware of how much already happened to him and that he didn't want to risk loosing emotions if he didn't already

muted ember
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You're proving my point bc Sanji fully awakened his genes he just hasn't realized, and he didn't lose his emotions, so he had no real reason to destroy it

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Both the rationale for Sanji destroying the suit were untrue

sinful helm
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the raid suit was only needed too start the awakening

severe ice
muted ember
severe ice
muted ember
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No he just thought he was losing himself

severe ice
muted ember
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He trusted it enough to peep on Nami and Robin

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And this chapter he said his exoskeleton was helping him so he's trusting Germa science already to an extent

severe ice
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(?)

split glacier
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Well he's forced to trust it because its a part of his DNA now

muted ember
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My argument isn't whether or not it was necessary or not, it's that he threw it away for no reason, which he did

muted valley
muted ember
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Germa genes awakening? Already happened. Hitting women and changing as a person? Didn't happen

severe ice
muted valley
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Sanji worked his way up to strength from what was a normal human.

His siblings were gifted with the DNA and were naturally powerful. He now has that power boost from exoskeleton and such. As we see he can disappear just through sheer speed.

Hes actually a monster. Curious if anything else comes out of him this arc.

severe ice
split glacier
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Then what's the purpose of keeping a suit only he can use that he won't be he's already reaped the benefits from it?

short pilot
muted valley
short pilot
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I wonder if the raid suit helped him awaken his true power though

split glacier
steep sundial
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i think its safe to say ushimaru is zoro's grandfather right

muted ember
split glacier
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But there's no certified info stating that the continued use of the suit wouldn't have changed his emotions too. The more he used it, the more he changed right? Dudes eyebrows even changed. The possible risk of becoming full on Germa-robot was why he destroyed and that he didn't want to rely or be connected to Judge, no?

ancient vault
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Yeah, the girl was the trigger

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Not the reason

split glacier
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You guys are equating your known info of the whole story and everything happens compared to the individuals actual experiences. He had a reason to destroy the suit otherwise he wouldn't have destroyed it...It wasn't an accident, he wasn't bored and thought it would be fun. To say he didn't have a reason is to say he's doing random acts for nothing.

weak plaza
muted ember
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By the time he threw away the raid suit he was already Germa

split glacier
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The statement is he destroyed it for no. He had a reason. If ifs and butts were coconuts.

muted ember
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His reasoning was flawed then

real swan
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But why does that matter? We only say this because we know what this outcome is. In sanji's pov, he wasn't sure yet if the suit was going to change him for the worse so he destroyed it, it's literally a decision that he thought was the best and doesn't matter if it was flawed or not.

Pretty sure the point is that it's not even needed anymore. He's now just as durable as the suit, could always fly to begin with and the chapter, like in whole cake island, showcases that he can move so fast he's basically invisible anyways.

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Plus, not sure what ya'lls thoughts are on the lightning bit but I'm pretty sure that's just him being able to generate so much heat now it just somewhat generates lightning too, like a lightning bender.

gray creek
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Lightning is just a stylistic effect for a powerful impact. That was probably the finisher

real swan
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The only thing that makes me think differently this time is that his leg is sparking when he says the name ifrit jambe.

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And the fire is designed white hot

muted ember
muted ember
shadow ruin
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Santoryu Rengoku Onigiri

real swan
muted ember
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They definitely had an effect Sanji said they were both worn out. But in WCI when they were stuck in Peros candy they couldn't get out but when they had the raid suits they could break through it, so it's a boost on top of their genetic enhancements

modest skiff
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I don't think we have the ability to definitively say whether this "awakened Sanji" is equivalent to raid suit Sanji, but they sure do seem to perform similarly

sand sail
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Sanji, as he is now, would have his body ripped open by the attack King did against him earlier. The suit is what saved his life at that point

modest skiff
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I don't think we can say that for sure

muted ember
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Pudding and other BM pirates had bullets that could puncture their exoskeletons, but not when they had the raid suits on

real swan
real swan
sand sail
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The bullets did puncture them with the suits on

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They get shot to hell later while helping the Strawhats and trying to escape

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However, the suits were their main source of power in WCI, implying that just their exoskeletons was not up to the task of fighting against the Big Mom pirates back then

muted ember
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Damn I forgot about that part

modest skiff
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So just to make sure I am on the same page: Sanji's family also have all the same exoskeleton/speed enhancements?

muted ember
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His seem to be stronger but yes

sand sail
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I'm sure Sanji's stronger at this point, but yeh generally speaking they all have the same enhancements

real swan
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Yea, cause there's that scene of yonji getting fixed up too

sand sail
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But Sanji got his enhancements like after he was already as strong or stronger than them, so it makes sense

modest skiff
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My impression from WCI was that they were weak without their suits and then incredibly powerful with them

real swan
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The suits definitely helped, I'm just arguing more a bit in sanji's favor.

muted ember
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Niji still had his powers without the raid suit, just lesser

sand sail
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Nah, they weren't weak by any means without their suits, but the suits are what put them on the map so to speak

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That's what makes them the big red flags of Germa

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But, they all get the enhanced physical capabilities and exoskeletons, that's the only actual genetic modification going on it seems

real swan
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I just find it incredibly ironic that Sanji ended up being the biggest success of the Germa family as of now.

real swan
modest skiff
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I just read through the wiki. You guys are right. They have a bunch of genetic enhancements that result in speed/power/agility. The raid suit provides additional physical durability and rocket boosters. I agree with Bean that Sanji appears to be on some totally different level of exoskeleton though after the whole battle axe breaking on Sanji's neck. I think the rough'ish theory of Sanji's being stronger due to developing later in life when he was already very strong makes sense.

muted ember
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His exoskeleton is almost definitely much stronger cause he kicked Yonji shit in before he awakened

modest skiff
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also true

real swan
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It doesn't help that his enemies keep beating up women in front of him

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They asking for it

plucky hound
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Wait did this fight happen before or after sanji found that girl beat up

abstract pond
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Before. Queen is just cruel and was going to beat her again.

real swan
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Which, again, fits the meme of queen helping enemies cause Sanji was really thinking he did it but knowing he didnt't gave him some closure. Queen really is the mvp.

pure raven
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Is it known how Mihawk knew about the abolishment of the Warlords?

muted ember
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He probably read it in the paper

muted ember
pure raven
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as if he learned it live. And the anime emphasizes that its currently running

muted ember
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After the abolition vote

pine delta
#

this seems kinda abrupt as the finisher, i hope its not. but at the same time idk what different kind of combat oda can display in the sanji fight. we've covered the tech, the woman, sanji''s choice, sanji's fire.

ancient vault
twilit dagger
#

Any Lunarian theories/

muted ember
#

I'm working on one

#

What if King uses fire with sparks on Zoro just like Sanji?

pure raven
#

was there a war on the moon and then they moved to the red line? because strong tribes like king's would seem to only lose if they were vulnerable in the red line perhaps

near osprey
muted ember
near osprey
#

Well that in mind maybe Sanji has flames because he actually just has part of King's own genetic code in him.

#

Fire could be a common attribute amongst Lunarians or they could have unique specific abilities.

#

Ohh never mind checked their wiki page fire is just a common attribute to Lunarians

modest skiff
sand sail
#

Sanji isn't likely to have had lunarian genes placed into him at any time, given what we know about Germa and all

velvet crown
#

Theory : Akainu will have a tragic backstory that includes either 1)him melting his family on accident or 2)snitching on them in the name of absolute justice

#

Not really a theory but prediction 😁

modest skiff
# sand sail Sanji isn't likely to have had lunarian genes placed into him at any time, given...

Until we know why Sanji's enhancements appeared to not work, and where exactly the lineage factor to create the various enhancements (Reiju sticks out the most in this way to me) of Germa came from, I consider it a question mark. I was able to buy into the "friction" thing early on post-TS, but we are at a point now where Sanji is a bit of a charizard and its hard to accept that's just friction

sand sail
#

The problem with it would be between Queen and Judge's comments for it, though. We don't know that their genes were spliced with other things in general, but if Sanji were planned to have Lunarian genes, Judge or his other kids would've definitely commented on how it seemed Sanji was some sort of success already

abstract pond
#

"While she was pregnant with their four sons, she took a drug that was intended to counteract the effects of the genetic modification surgery Judge would ultimately force her to undergo. However, the drug failed to work on Ichiji, Niji, and Yonji, leaving Sanji as the only one capable of experiencing empathy."

amber oar
#

People jumping on conclussions about Sanji and Lunarians are forgetting Judge and Vegapunk have been researching lineage factor on devil fruits as well. I remember when that was the most accepted theory and when the Vinsmokes' brows were considered a clue. Oda even joked about it in a pre-timeskip SBS.
We don't know any Mera Mera user before Ace got it <5 years ago. Same for Goro Goro before Enel destroyed Birka 8 ago.

muted ember
#

Maybe the drug had Lunarian lineage factor

sand sail
#

Yeh, we do know why his enhancements never took, but beyond that we've had Sanji denying it's a genetic thing in general, and at this point after referencing Germa science repeatedly, it's not something Queen's brought up as part of it anymore

muted ember
#

Queen basically said he's full of shit tho

sand sail
#

But even further, Queen has enhanced himself with every modification so far, but he doesn't have any kind of fire abilities. That's a soft confirmation that the fire was never part of his genes directly, although his enhancement seem to aid in making it stronger if nothing else

muted ember
#

Queen did use fire

sand sail
#

When?

muted ember
#

In the 2v2

#

I'll find it

visual merlin
#

if the fire were a germa thing he'd have used it this chapter with the others

#

probably also revealed that he already knew what it was too

modest skiff
sand sail
#

Well, we also didn't see him use poison yet, to be fair

visual merlin
#

Sure thats true, but still Im pretty sure he'd have used diable jambe here if that were a germa thing since he's fighting sanji and whatnot

#

instead he goes for the invis

muted ember
muted ember
sand sail
#

Is that fire? It looks mostly different to Sanji there

muted ember
#

Idk what else it could be

real swan
#

Either fire or because the edges look a bit...gloopy? Perhaps it's a poison since he dabbles in that as well

muted ember
#

Possible

sand sail
#

If it's fire, it's nothing like Diable Jambe at all, so I'm not going to count that in with this

#

That looks like it's his own enhancement, not a Germa copy thing

#

Otherwise, seeing as he did use it already, he'd have definitely pressed it in this chapter as a thing to one up Judge

real swan
#

Also the fact that Sanji is willingly increasing output and can control it freely

muted ember
#

It's heat ig the literal translation of the Kanji is "bridal heat fist"

sand sail
#

More than that, the fact that he's never been immune to fire, and his resistance was actually always blamed on him just growing up working in a kitchen

muted ember
#

According to the wiki

sand sail
#

Resistance that apparently only just increased, but didn't come from the genes so far

#

The Germa weren't fire proof, but their suits were

real swan
#

Some characters are definitely just unique and can willingly conjure up things through willpower or passion

#

I really hope the fire Sanji uses stays that way

hoary onyx
#

theories on the revealed shanks crew member names?

amber oar
limber python
#

First owner of Yami Yami No Mi theory:
my theory is that i believe that Rocks D. Xebec is the first user of yami yami no mi and also the owner of the gura gura no mi and mera mera no mi. The Blackbeard pirate has three skulls which i believe represents the hidden power of the yami yami no mi. As we know so far that Blackbeard is the holder of two devil fruit Dark and Quake, now that crosses out two of the skulls which leaves us with one more. as we all know the Black beard pirate attacked the Revolutionary army base where Sobo is so he can obtain the last fruit he needs. I believe that Xebec was also the owner of the Gura Gura No Mi because Whitebeard only obtained the quake fruit once he left the Rocks Pirate. I believe that he was also the owner of the Mera Mera No Mi because of the actions of Blackbeard targeting Sobo because Blackbeard wouldn’t just target Sobo for no reason. I also think why Teach wanted the Dark fruit so badly because i believe that Whitebeard told Teach the story of his old days serving under Xebec and that influenced Blackbeard to betray Whitebeard…

sand sail
#

Xebec didn't have two fruits, Blackbeard was stated as the first person in history to have achieved it

limber python
#

I know but i believe the world government has hidden it to the world

wind flame
#

Considering the world government tries to cover up Xebecs existence it is possible

limber python
visual merlin
#

they were saying it to one another, no need to hide it there

#

the gorosei that is

#

so BB is indeed the first

wind flame
limber python
limber python
#

another point imu is a mysterious figure and has unknown powers. Imu could have erased the mind of the five elders because he or she was afraid that the one of the five elders might over throw her or him

#

@visual merlin

visual merlin
#

I mean maybe, but at that point it's just stretching into ideas that lack any sort of evidence. For now I think it's safe enough to accept what we've been told and say BB is the first

limber python
#

yeah thats true

#

thank you for the info btw

sand sail
#

Unfortunately, it doesn't quite look like Xebec will have had any fruit that we know of these days, except maybe the Gura Gura. If Whitebeard found it after God Valley, it would make sense, but after the Xebec reveal there's a decent chance Sengoku would've referenced an ability he'd had if it were still in play and causing chaos

#

The Gura Gura was so bad that they lamented that its threat wasn't gone yet when Whitebeard died, since Blackbeard grabbed it immediately

wind flame
#

I've been wondering does anyone think pure haki top tiers have an asura equivalent but based off different myths. For example shanks having a form based off a Norse God or something. Or is asura probably just something unique to zoro.

#

If it is tied to CoC I mean

gray creek
#

I’m still not convinced it is. The only reason we had to speculate that was because that’s the attack that made Kaido realize the CoC. But last chapter shows us Zoro can let CoC flow into his attacks, so he was probably just doing that in addition to asura

wind flame
#

Ik it's only speculation but I feel like he left out the black lightning on purpose to show it's not exactly coating

#

Another reason I think this is it seems like Oda likes to preview haki through Zoro and maybe the next level of CoC is making it more personalized

gray creek
#

That would mean Zoro had Shanks level CoC since Enies Lobby

wind flame
#

Yea it's a bit of a stretch but if Asura ends up being CoC related Zoro cant be the only one. Also I may or may not want to see mihawk turn into a vampire

latent zodiac
#

I have a question that i thought of recently

Oden had a log book that basically tells all right?

Why the hell didnt he go public with it to big news morgans?

sand sail
#

A) This was 20 years ago, Morgans may not have been in business or known at all

#

B) He was an extremely wanted fugitive

#

C) He went straight to Wano and only cared to open those borders

#

D) Why would he?

latent zodiac
versed hamlet
#

plus consider that this text in the narration text box is could very well be the exact words in the notebook so it may not actually have that much information

unknown.png
latent zodiac
#

didnt yamato read the book when she got it too? i could have sworn she knew what was in it

pure raven
#

Zoro purple coc not black

Eyg9CzyWYAIRT79.jpg
craggy pumice
#

that’s a fan colorization

junior cape
#

Yeah

grave pilot
#

What if the gomu gomu fruit has multiple awakenings and each gear of luffy are different awakenings? That would explain why the fruit is so sought after

junior cape
latent zodiac
junior cape
#

Especially if they relate to Wano's past, and the fate of the world.

#

Even several Daimyos understood the significance, and chose to sacrifice themselves so that Yamato could carry the journal to the raid. That's how important the content is.

burnt harness
#

lunarians are lizard people

muted valley
pure raven
#

why did Oda make the lunarians migrate and THEN wipe them out? since they were from the moon most likely and then went to the red line

#

or maybe they escaped a cataclysm/war from the moon and when arrived to the red line, the celestial dragons let the survivors stay there temporeraly with the condition of being their slaves and maybe help build mariejois or parts of it. after using them, they tried to retaliate and the wg wiped them, maybe imu personally, who knows

muted valley
#

I think your making alot of assumptions that are never stated

potent swallow
#

the only thing i can think of is that since lunarians are one of the toughest races they were considered gods and the celestial dragons didnt like that so they used the ancient weapons to wipe them off

hoary onyx
#

king's parents theories?

#

since hes like in his late 40s

grizzled fog
#

I highly doubt we’ve ever seen or heard of his parents before. Lunarians that died off a while ago I’m guessing

pure raven
muted valley
# potent swallow the only thing i can think of is that since lunarians are one of the toughest ra...

My idea is they lived on the redline, the had a genocide and was kicked out. Then moved to God Valley.

The celestials wanted slaves and went there, at the same time Rocks went there to recruit the lunarians to fight against the celestial dragons else they'd be killed. (Rocks pirates already were known to kill each other. So it's not to crazy Rocks could have a attitude regarding "join or die"

Which everything about the lunarians , rock, God valley was wiped off the map after Rocks failed.

pure raven
#

Interesting, this might've gotten kaido to meet them there, maybe kid king was there and kaido might've saved him like "killed a big marine soldier" the says "hmm, don't think I did it cause I felt sorry!"

#

then*

sinful helm
obsidian charm
tropic surge
sinful helm
#

that logic lmao

ancient vault
muted ember
#

I like the idea but I would hate Kid being a D

obsidian charm
#

just found a theory in reels lmao

obsidian charm
ancient vault
#

Theories from social media are worse than youtube theories

muted valley
# obsidian charm

If this was a work from Kubo, id buy it. He did some wild foreshadowing that was as small as that. But I dont think Oda would, I know he had the ARCS laid out (and what theyd involve) and showed us covers. But that was Dressrossa I think

#

I dont recall but I think he had the general idea of the arcs and transitions. Not like it fully written out.

#

Also it has surprised me how much Oda kind of winged and improvised. Its not on Dragonball's Toriyama's level.(Where he just winged it weekly after a certain point) But Oda did kind of just have ideas for how he wanted it to go and who the characters were. Then at certain points introduce story elements that sounded better than his original idea and ran with it and started reworking the story.

Which makes me wonder if Roger's treasure was changed along the way.

muted ember
#

That's not winging if u have a long term plan for something it's natural some things would adapt along the way. Being 100% tied to the original ideas would inhibit creativity

muted valley
#

"kind of winged it and improvised"

#

I disagree on the creativity part and it being a good thing. My ex used to write ALOT and did books. She almost always had EVERYTHING figured out with the story. Which is 100% creative. She structured the writing proccess and implemented the creative ideas. It is a very common method for writing. As it can be reviewed for narrative issues prior. To the rough draft to the publisher.

ancient vault
#

Agree but staying true to the script (so to say) does limit you in a way

#

For short running stories/series thatsabsolutely fine

muted ember
#

Did your ex write a story as epic and well crafted as OP?

ancient vault
#

For a series like OP that runs for decades literally its just natural that you will develop other and possibly better ideas which as tray said would in fact increase and promote creativity

#

Over time you will get different perspectives and staying true to the script 20 years later instead of adapting does limit you and your potential creaticiry

muted valley
#

If you want to change stories for sales then yes

muted ember
#

To get back to the theory though, Oda said the ending of One Piece has never changed

muted valley
#

didnt know, ty

novel burrow
#

Please give my compliments to the headchef, the dino meat was well cooked, tender and yet well juicy. I can only think of way this meat could have . Beat the shit out of the dino.

pure raven
#

yo sanji went SICKO MODE

shut trellis
#

sanji's ass

lapis prairie
#

Theory: chopper is gonna cure the smile fruit by-product of all those villagers smiling with the thing his first mentor was obsessed with - where you cure an island with a cherry blossom explosion.

wet perch
grizzled fog
#

That’s….way too much. When do you think these characters will even have time to unlock most of these abilities? Most of these just don’t fit these characters at all, zoro with future sight? Jinbe with advanced arms and brook? This just seems like handing out haki powerups for the sake of the crew being as overpowered as possible

#

Luffy is currently the only character in the series we know of with all three types of haki, I guess I can’t really argue with mihawk having it advanced observation because it’s total speculation. But Franky and robin both defeated haki wielding opponents just this arc without gaining haki of their own, they’ve done fine powering up in unique ways up til now

jade moon
#

I like the slingshot getting devil fruit idea a lot😍😍

muted ember
#

I think Nami could be foreshadowed to get observation when Sanji used it in her body

azure dust
#

are lunarians and eneru connected somehow

#

armament franky or robin will look so cursed.

abstract pond
#

Feels like Robin has armament and doesn't look cursed

muted ember
#

I don't think it's armament

sinful helm
#

She should have armament at least and observation for usage with her fruit powers

wicked perch
#

What if next arc is about conquerors haki. Let me explain as we may know the last arc is wci and the arc now is wano in wci we mainly focused on observation haki from the katakuri fight and within that fight luffy learned advanced observation haki and in wano luffy learnt advanced armament haki so the next arc luffy could learn about advanced conquerors and we might see some more conqueror users🧐

#

X

#

One piece theory 2: the seed theory. So when you eat a df it taste bad right wrong what if It taste like nothing and what makes it taste bad is a seed this seed will find it's way in the middle of the body and within the first hour you grow a apple or a fruit that the df originated from and when you die that fruit turns into ur df this explains why bb was bloody cuz he searched wb body for it and ate with while it was coated with blood this also explains how doffy got the flame fruit he stayed after the battle searched aces body found it washed it and took it to dressrosa but what smiley?. Well smiley dissolved the seed so the df went to a nearby fruit. That's my theorie from waffle

muted ember
#

This arc is about conquerors haki

wicked perch
#

No

muted ember
#

You said next arc we could learn about advanced conquerors Haki we're doing that right now

wicked perch
#

Luffy learns advanced then trains with advanced and zoro with enma which zoro will forge into a black blade with armament haki

#

Also luffy uses armament haki on kaido and kaido is the finale it's just like katakuri

muted ember
#

Luffy is literally using advanced conquerors to beat Kaido lol

wicked perch
#

The next arc could be a pirate group taking over the world btw

#

Because oda is doing alot of movies and stuff in 2021 2021 back wards is 1202 and what happens in 1202? Germa conquerors north blue for 66 days

ancient vault
#

This arc was the arc where they shouldve awakened haki but they didnt so i doubt majority will ever get haki. Except for usopp whos gonna get COC

ancient vault
ancient vault
wicked perch
#

Damn

#

One day one piece will end that day we won't be prepared to see

#

Like what do we do after

tacit veldt
#

We reread it and find all the cool foreshadowing

nimble thistle
#

The story will never be over. BBZehahaha

stiff patrol
pure raven
pure raven
pine nymph
#

i have a good theory. when luffy will find the one piece, roger will come to meet him as a ghost.

but wait roger is dead u idiot
well its proven that there are souls and ghost and the after life as brook can literally become a ghost and can become a soul.
even big mom can take soul fragments
but it can be devil fruit related, what if only certain devil fruit can make a soul

well there are other occasions where they show souls, like bellemere showed up, and even in sky island arc when merry was damaged as hell, a spirit showed up and fixed merry

leaden shoal
pine nymph
pure raven
#

yeah that spirit on the ship was the klabautermann , there was one for sunny as well, in wano they mention the afterlife all the time as well

#

but i think the one that will appear in raftel is Joy Boy, because he is said to return at the destined time (whether as a spirit or if he is still alive hiding somewhere) and he was the original procreator of the one piece

plucky kiln
#

What will Crocodiles Role be

#

He has his own goals and we know that he does everything to reach them but I dont think he could team up with luffy since their goals arent the same

#

But they could temporarily help each other out+

azure dust
#

wt is his goal?

#

ancient weapon? thats it? or was it overthrowing the government?

#

these side characters need to understand they dont have enough plot armor for those stuff ;-;

analog sun
#

His presence along with some others' (Moria, Dragon, Mihawk) at Roger's execution is still pretty mysterious to me. I don't think we know yet what Croc's deal really is. Without going full croco-mom, the fact we don't even see his face at the execution is still unexplained and likely very relevant

zinc iris
#

also like 90% of people was there because Roger was an objectively important dude so it was an event nobody wanted to miss

analog sun
zinc iris
tardy pulsar
sacred hawk
#

So given the placement of characters right now, I think it might be possible for a certain rematch to happen.

#

Usopp is headed to where Kinemon is right now. But given that the fire yokai has already reached the lower floors, it's unlikely that Usopp will run into it

#

But if does have something in mind for that subplot, I think that given everyone's location, it's possible for a Page One rematch to happen

visual merlin
#

eh it really seems like the flying six are down at this point

#

and he is on a time crunch to save kiku iirc

sacred hawk
#

Sure, but if Oda intends to give Usopp a good moment with this subplot, I don't really know what other option there is at this point.

visual merlin
#

he's gonna save kiku or sumn KingShrug

sacred hawk
#

Alright, here we go

map.png
#

Page One coming back is the only possible hurdle that Usopp can face in this subplot

lapis prairie
sinful helm
#

that w olf was in cp9 no sign that he is in cp0 only kaku-luci and spandam are confirmed

#

Jabura

tawdry bramble
#

I still think it’s absurd that Spandam got in considering how worthless he is.

reef oar
#

What if Luffys Gear 5th is turning into a giant concernbull

craggy pumice
#

that’s gear 3

reef oar
# craggy pumice that’s gear 3

No I mean like Oars in thriller bark giant. A giant form that he can hold for a certain amount of time. Rather than a tiny human cannon ball that bounces around like in Gear 4th he can instead turn into a giant and absolutely wreck shit.

sinful helm
hoary grove
#

Luffy Gear 5 is full body conquerors and armament making him untouchable and all of his attacks not having to land on the opponent but still hitting them

ebon fern
#

Aur maybe awakening of the devil fruit

#

Possibilities are low but still there is a chance

lavish raft
hoary grove
rustic granite
#

Usopp will always be the weakest Strawhat

heady plaza
#

Usopp will get conquers haki

rustic granite
#

Never denying that he will
Just stating that he would always be the Weakest Strawhat

#

I don't think he can beat Monster Point Chopper

hoary grove
#

Monster Point Chopper absolutely destroys Usopp in a fight

pure raven
#

What if Momonosuke tows Onigashima far enough out into the sea where the WG ships are, then the flame clouds disappear/weaken (from Kaido being defeated/weakening) and Onigashima cannonballs right into the sea creating a great tsunami, which would hit the WG’s ships right over the edge of Wano Kuni. Which would in turn, save Wano from being crushed by Onigashima, as well as buy the Straw Hats some time to recover while the WG ships make their way back up the waterfall

#

Or if Onigashima doesn’t cannonball in the sea, Yamato could somehow break off the whole armory floor, making it fall into the sea. The bombs and the giant rocks from that height would create the same huge tsunami effect as the whole Onigashima would, hitting the WG ships off Wano Kuni. This would lengthen our time on floating Onigashima tho

muted valley
# pure raven What if Momonosuke tows Onigashima far enough out into the sea where the WG ship...

That's a big old what if, specially since all Momo can do is hold Onigashima in place. Which I thought it was over Lans and not water at this point.

If it did land in the ocean I'm not too knowledgeable but it'd have to be at the side where the ships are below Wano.

They likley would be waiting in the waters offshore before they get violent. Which would have them far away from the water that would need to reach the edge of the upper level of wano. And just splash off the island.

Where the tsunami/rise in waves would need to be apart of the water where the ships are. Instead of on a different plateau that has waterfalls.

#

From 1027, they are over land it seems and not the ocean

#

But I think it'd be a cop out. I think BB is going to clash with the WG or Shanks and that is how they will be dealt with.

Seems unlike Oda to have it wipe out the WG in that way(to me)

muted valley
spice berry
#

Chopper can counter sleeping gas easily.

#

Anti-sleep point pill.

muted valley
# spice berry Anti-sleep point pill.

has he had that point?

But in monster point he couldn't make it. If he was preppy for it, yeah he'd have a drug for anti sleep. Not a rumble ball tho.

But that goes into prep time. Idk what everything is in ussopps arsenal but I think he has a sleep thing. Chopper I don't think has a drug to counteract knockout gas or a sleep pill.

spice berry
#

Point is wrong ig. Some adrenaline med more likely.

muted valley
# spice berry Point is wrong ig. Some adrenaline med more likely.

I think it'd depend.

Like if chopper KNEW what ussop had and how it worked. Yeah. Adrenaline would work for certain things like most sleep pills. But a gas that went after the CNS Adrenaline would just work up the body and not counteract the CNS from shutting down.

But if he knew of it and it's effects he'd be able to make something to counter act it.

abstract pond
muted valley
visual merlin
#

she got stronger, just not through armament ye

#

and thats definitely shading

exotic edge
#

Guys ik it sounds stupid and i know Sanji has no "Kingly Ambitions" but did you see the last panel?

timber silo
#

it was not conqueror's ffs

exotic edge
#

It was like Sanji is using CoC

exotic edge
timber silo
#

cuz it would have been revealed

pure raven
timber silo
#

it was just a combination of superheating+armament haki imo

exotic edge
#

Remember Zoro using the "Ashura" for the first time??

timber silo
#

bro why is there a 15 sec timer 💀

exotic edge
timber silo
pure raven
exotic edge
#

Yeah ik so maybe it can be.

#

Im not saying he has but dont you think so??

timber silo
#

he's talking about colour panels

#

the ones that fans do

exotic edge
#

Yes. That's what i meant.

timber silo
exotic edge
#

Ik as i said its just a theory of mine.

timber silo
#

that red lightning has been shown before from armament

#

it was a combination of superheating+exoskeleton+armament haki imo

exotic edge
#

Do we have proof about you firstly need to use armament for CoC

timber silo
#

no? and i never said u need to

exotic edge
timber silo
#

no worries

#

but i dont think sanji awakened coc during that chapter it would have been showcased with black lightning as well

mortal field
#

Sanji doesnt show signs of having CoC anyways, i doubt he would get it

dapper knoll
#

i just realized

#

the sea devil takes your ability to swim so that you fall to the bottom of the SEA

#

not saying sea devil is real

#

just an observation

fathom matrix
#

I hope that if Elbaf does happen, it's gonna be Usopp's arc.

Like, Usopp's been getting stronger and smarter, as well as Braver (he has his moments though) as of late, and I want the arc to be him exporing Elbaf

#

I still have this one theory that once the arc ends he'll stay behind, and when the strawhats are in trouble, he'll arrive at that last moment, with that huge army he's always lied about, BUT he actually get it

pure raven
abstract trellis
#

Kaido’s awakening isn’t revealed after reviewing what zoan awakening does we seen at the prison from what I know is the full form of zoan is the animal state and the hybrid is the hybrid state, hybrid boosts your base power but is also efficient in movement since u r comfortable using it, full power is 100% of your devil fruit but u may be limited to what the animal is so the awakened koalas, zebras are in full animal bipedal form their ultimate form, Chopper has the human human no mo and monster point is the 100% use of all the points combined into one meaning monster point may or may not be his forced awakening so Kaido’s Awakening has to be a Bipedal Full Dragon Form

muted ember
#

I agree his awakening will be a more dragon-like giant hybrid form

abstract trellis
#

Big Mom’s awakening would work like Kid except anyone in the area gets their soul sucked away

#

Omg white beard’s awakening would be like Kid’s awakening where he cause an area to just break and Whitebeard is stupid powerful that be just breaks everything around him

fathom matrix
#

I found out Nikka is the name of a whisky, and Nike is the name of the goddess of vistory.

#

Maybe Nika's name is a combination of booze and visctory, and Nika is a sun god yes, but after every victory, people celebrate to have a drink

#

And there was an idea that the golden bell in skypeia looks like an upside cup.

And we saw a shadow of Luffy dancing by a fire at skypeia, and the shadow looks like Nika.

So maybe, Nika was a Skypeian, that celebrated every victory with a drink

#

Or at least not a skypian

#

but live in the city gold at the time during the void century

modest skiff
modest skiff
fathom matrix
modest skiff
#

Part of the reason to use armament is to keep your weapon from breaking. If you aren’t making physical contact, that use isn’t needed I guess lol

muted ember
#

Kaido's attacks make contact

fathom matrix
#

Imagine once his canabou does break, he's shocked but he says something like "guess things are gonna get more bloody" cause he's no longer creating blunt strikes, but he might resort to more animalistic and sharp attacks for Luffy

desert comet
#

hyogoro called luffy the god of fire in the new episode again

silk inlet
desert comet
#

yeah supports all those theories

silk inlet
#

I know haki is vague and not very well explained

But why is zoro the only one who can do this manifestation shit. Shouldn't all top tier conquerors have a manifestation of their will that is unique to them

#

It's like zoro has coating and then ashura. But everyone else only has coating

#

Like say garp for example or even Rayleigh

sand sail
#

Neither Garp nor Rayleigh have the conqueror's coating

#

But no, they shouldn't, Zoro's never been a top tier conqueror. Whatever he does is just unique to him, like most other abilities are to their users

junior cape
#

Well... Garp no, Rayleigh maybe.

sand sail
#

Neither so far have it, Rayleigh is extremely unlikely to

junior cape
#

We dont know how strong peak Rayleigh was, and he never got beyond the basics in training.

sand sail
#

We don't need to know how strong he was, that's irrelevant. It's the fact that Luffy never even knew it existed after training with him for almost 2 years, whereas he knew about the other forms of haki even without Rayleigh having taught him

#

The fact that Rayleigh doesn't so much as mention it, and the fact that he can't defeat Kizaru, both point heavily toward him just not having it

silk inlet
#

Wait why would it be unlikely that Rayleigh has conquerors coating

#

And if luffy is weaponizing conquerors coating in his fists and big mom aswell. Why wouldn't garp be able to do this

sand sail
#

Garp doesn't have conqueror's at all that we know of would be why for him

#

For Rayleigh, I explained why it's less likely ^

silk inlet
#

Why wouldn't garp have conquerors

spice berry
#

Bcoz Oda

silk inlet
#

I understand it hasn't been said in the story, I understand this completely

But from a logical standard point why would he not have it

#

In terms of combat his betrayal is above sengoku

sand sail
#

Because there's no reason for him to have it in the story, and it hasn't been indicated. There's no logic for why he should have it except power scaling

#

In terms of combat, his portrayal (I believe you meant) has never been above Sengoku's

#

Nor does that really matter, conqueror's isn't about how strong you are

silk inlet
#

Conquerors haki is about the dominion over others. Even of your dream isn't to become a king per say.

If you have the ability to stand above others and lead, you are a conqueror

#

But there are several characters in one piece who have displayed this yet aren't conquerors

sand sail
#

Leading has nothing to do with it, it's just about standing over others

#

And yes, that's the problem, those qualities are far from conqueror's unique

silk inlet
#

Kinemon has those qualities

#

Way more than yamato that's for sure.

So that highlights that lineage is more important than personality

sand sail
#

Kinemon doesn't really, no. He tries to lead, and it's awkward and depends a lot on luck, but he's got no propensity to stand above anyone else at all

silk inlet
#

Let's agree to disagree

sand sail
#

Yamato wants to be the model of an actual conqueror, so by all definition she does in fact fit it

#

Because she's literally trying to model herself after an actual conqueror

silk inlet
#

In regards to yamato the aspects she models herself after oden.

The aspects she copies from oden, aren't the ones that made him a conqueror

sand sail
#

Well, they are tho. She's trying to emulate his power will, his strength of character and his sheer strength for the sake of fighting for others

silk inlet
#

The parts of oden that made him a conqueror have not been displayed by yamato

#

Fighting for others isn't what makes a conqueror

sand sail
#

What has Oden showed as a conqueror that Yamato hasn't attempted to echo so far?

silk inlet
#

It was odens magnetism and ability to rally kuri that made him a conqueror

#

Hr literally gathered powerful samurai and the scum of kuri and made them his followers

#

That is what made him a conqueror

Based on what your saying, him wanting to go on adventures made him a conqueror

#

Which is wrong

sand sail
#

Yamato's actually got a good bit of magnetism herself, she's made a good deal of friends and has a powerful will to stand above others. She just does it for the sake of an ideal

silk inlet
#

Yamato has no magnetism
The so called friends she made, you mean the old men who felt sorry for her

sand sail
#

No, we don't know what the criteria for "conqueror" is, that's just an assumption on your part. What Yamato has lacked so far is just exposure to the outside world, she hasn't lacked an ability to make friends or influence people, and she hasn't lacked any willpower whatsoever

silk inlet
#

To say kinemon has less magnetism than yamato is crazy

sand sail
#

You can't say Yamato has no magnetism and then proceed to make an example of the part of her that's magnetic. There's also Ace, apparently at least one of the Numbers, Luffy, and Momonosuke

#

Kinemon does have less magnetism than Yamato, he's done everything based on past connections and he's been hardly able to actually bring anyone together. Luffy and Momonosuke are the ones who made the entire raid possible

#

That was part of the struggle of Wano for him, he actually couldn't get anyone following him for the longest time

silk inlet
#

What example did I give of her being magnetic

I literally said the samurai felt sorry for her being chained up

You think feeling sorry for her in that situation and helping her was her magnetism

#

Yamato is literally trying to steal someone else's identity

The point of being a conqueror is, is in sense being the ultimate individual.

sand sail
#

You have 0 idea of what the point of being a conqueror is

silk inlet
#

I don't you have any idea either

sand sail
#

You've also missed a lot of Yamato's character development to say she's only trying to steal someone else's identity

silk inlet
#

I mean that's literally what she is doing.

sand sail
#

She's very much her own person, she's just trying to follow Oden's ideals. Sure, she has the gag, but she's spent the last 20 years getting stronger just to fight Kaido and carry out Oden's will

#

No, it's not.

#

She cares deeply about the freedom of Wano because all of her friends she's made have come from there, and Kaido has made an attempt to rid himself of all of them

silk inlet
#

She has displayed no individual traits that aren't some oden emulation attempt.

She says she loves oden despite meeting him 1 time in which he barely displayed any of his best characteristics

#

Caring about freedom isn't being a conqueror man

sand sail
#

She saw him at a time that was so epic they called it the Hour of Legend

spice berry
#

Carried all the scabbards

silk inlet
#

Yamato is a conqueror purely based on lineage I don't know what else to tell you

sand sail
#

You really can't say anything about it, you're just wrong on this one lol. It's not about her lineage, Yamato's clearly an extremely willful person

silk inlet
#

She is already taking orders from luffy

sand sail
#

The object of her will is irreelvant. Chinjao was only in things to grow his treasure horde and he was still a conqueror

#

Rayleigh's got less qualities than Yamato does, and he's still one as well.

#

Zoro also takes orders from Luffy

#

Rayleigh took order from Roger, and Katakuri took them from Big Mom. I think you've got a set idea of what conqueror's means, but it's very inflexible and doesn't seem supported by the series so far

silk inlet
#

Chinjao is the perfect standard of a conqueror

I don't understand why people always run to chinjao

He literally molded luffys ideal of how to become pirate King

sand sail
#

We have a wide variety of personalities that possess whatever innate traits allow conqueror's, none of them are cookie cutter or standard beyond just having a strong will. Incidentally, caring about freedom is literally all of Luffy's life goal

#

He didn't mold anything for Luffy...

silk inlet
#

And the point isn't about taking orders

It's about the speed with which she took orders from him

You clearly are forgetting when luffy and zoro first met. Zoro told this guy that he had his own ambition and if luffy got in the way he would cut him down

#

Zoro eventually took orders yes. But there is hierarchy even among the conquerors

sand sail
#

There isn't, and Zoro didn't just eventually take orders, he's never had any problem following what Luffy does

#

If Luffy weren't in it for saving Wano, Yamato also would've gladly fought him, that's not really a good comparison here

silk inlet
#

Yamato was literally there waiting hopelessly for luffy

plucky kiln
silk inlet
#

If luffy didn't come regardless of his intentions she would be there waiting till she died

silk inlet
sand sail
#

Well yeah, just like all of the other samurai of Wano. They weren't waiting for Luffy, they were waiting for whoever would come to help take Kaido down

plucky kiln
#

I'm afraid I'm the wrong to ask

sand sail
#

That's not a matter of willpower at all, that's a matter of military strength. They all waited 20 years because they were literally told to, and Yamato literally read it herself as well

#

Had Luffy never come, she would have just joined the samurai when they inevitably rebelled as well, because that was the whole plan. She even says it herself as a kid, she was only saving up strength and getting as strong as possible so that she could help with that when the time came.

silk inlet
#

Yamato is a conqueror based solely on lineage. The will to defy isn't what makes a conqueror. It's being an individual.

When the yonko clash, they express their individuality and dominion. The reason oda emphasises the different nature of each yonko crew is to depict how these characters are ultimate conquerors

sand sail
#

All of that is an okay hypothesis, but your statements aren't actually supported by the series here

#

Especially when Yamato is literally modeling herself after a confirmed conqueror in every way possible, along with having her own personal stake in everything that's been grown for the last 20 years of her life

silk inlet
#

If your just trying to copy someone else. Your already limiting yourself as a conqueror

Therefore the fact that she still has it means lineage carries more weight than anything

sand sail
#

But that's incorrect

#

Or rather, can you prove that has any weight at all as a statement?

silk inlet
#

And I just told you that the parts she is modelling from oden aren't what made him a conqueror man

sand sail
#

Which is still just a hypothesis of yours, not any kind of fact at all

silk inlet
#

I feel like your not reading anything I'm saying

#

Yours is just as much of a hypothesis

sand sail
#

No, I'm just pointing out that in the series currently we have no actual idea about any of this, but you're stating it as if it's a fact we've been told directly

#

None of what you are saying has been indicated or shown in the series at all, nor has anyone with any kind of difference in personality yet still having conqueror's been outed as seemingly not being deserving of it completely

silk inlet
#

I mean that is true we don't have full explanation for this.

But the reasons your giving for why yamato is a conqueror aren't good man

sand sail
#

You mentioned that Yamato isn't one because one of her big goals is freedom, and yet that's literally the driving force of Luffy's entire character besides wanting to protect his crew

#

The reason being that she's emulating a known conqueror in every way?

silk inlet
#

I do accept we haven't been giving a full explanation on this and I'm using my headcanon

But your reasons aren't good for why yamato is a conqueror

sand sail
#

You know she's been shown doing nothing but making immediate friends with literally everyone she's come across, right?

silk inlet
#

And I just explained the parts that she is emulating of oden aren't what made him a conqueror

sand sail
#

No, you're hypothesizing that maybe they're not, despite there being no real reason to believe so

#

You keep stating these things as if they're fact, the series does not support that idea

silk inlet
#

Immediate friends. Luffy didn't like her until she mentioned she knows ace.

She has made no immediate friend in this arc

silk inlet
sand sail
#

Luffy, Momonosuke, Ace, the three daimyo?

#

She's barely met anyone outside of the Beast Pirates, but everyone she's met so far has quickly become a friend and ally to her

#

And she's about to end the arc great friends with everyone because of what she stepped up to do

silk inlet
#

The 3 daimyou felt sorry for a girl who was chained up by her father and forced to live without food

She literally took canons for momonouske and is protecting him with her life to gain his trust

sand sail
#

If you want, we could even say we know she deserves to be a conqueror because she's trying to be the man who stood above everyone already. What you're saying is lacking for her for being a conqueror not only isn't an actual thing, we have several people with the ability who actually don't do these things

silk inlet
#

Bro none of these examples are good man. I really don't know what to tell you

sand sail
#

They didn't sacrifice their lives and run to their deaths because they felt sorry for her, lol

silk inlet
#

Quickly became her friend. Bro that is because of luffys magnetism

sand sail
#

Yes, she protected Momonosuke, you're acting like anyone just follows Luffy in general before he does things for him either

#

None of what you're saying works here

silk inlet
#

They follow luffy because of his magnetic character

sand sail
#

No, they follow him because he runs face first into everything and always wins, and that sucks people in

#

He doesn't have some magnetic aura that makes people turn and look at him as soon as he shows up

#

He does things, and they love what he does, just like Oden. Just like literally everyone in the series with conqueror's. Your idea about the ability is entirely flawed here

silver raptor
#

What happened

spice berry
#

Magnetism everywhere

silver raptor
#

I liked this discussion

woven moth
#

My bad head canon:Tama will ask Shinobu to use the Ripe-Ripe fruit so she can join the SHsOTamaThink Shilikek

#

She still won't be able to fight.

zinc iris
#

the conclusion is that CoC was a mistake

modest skiff
zinc iris
#

it's one of the biggest flaws I see in One Piece in general

#

bloodline power that is a hard requirement for top tier confrontations

#

and is also supremely inconsistent in its correlation with leadership

sand sail
#

It's not a hard requirement for anything at all

#

And it's never been a matter of leadership at all either

#

These flaws do not exist for the power LUL

zinc iris
sand sail
#

The fight with Kaido where he'd been decently injured by 14 other people who didn't have conqueror's? One of whom, despite having it, didn't use it to coat his blades as he attacked and still managed to permanently scar him

#

There's also Law and Kid taking on Big Mom now, too

muted ember
zinc iris
#

I must have imagined "Conqueror", "supreme king" and "those who have the qualities of a king"

muted ember
#

Where does it say that the qualities of a king are leadership? The only description I know is the disposition to stand above others

sand sail
#

^

#

"Conqueror" doesn't mean "good leader". Luffy isn't a good leader at all, for example

#

Nor is Zoro, and Big Mom's kind of a slouch in that department too tbh

muted ember
#

There's also characters that prove leadership has nothing to do with it since they actively resist taking positions of leadership, like Oden wanting to sail, or Ace wanting to make WB king instead of wanting it for himself

zinc iris
sand sail
#

Yes, and he's a terrible leader

#

Following him, besides him winning the fight, is typically a near-fatal endeavor, and he never has any idea of what anyone should actually be doing when they do

#

In fact, most of the time they actually lead him

mild kite
fathom matrix
sand sail
#

Yeh, that's what the best conquerors seem to be. Whitebeard was a great leader, Roger didn't seem to be at all. Luffy's a terrible leader, but you'll rarely find anyone better to stand behind even still, while Doflamingo was a fantastic leader

#

There's a fairly even split in it imo

fathom matrix
#

This might sound dumb, but maybe Ace lost or couldn't use coc anymore, because he gave up being a leader or the head of something? He wanted whitebeard to be the king of the pirates, he was the second devision (not the first) leader, he doesn't have his own crew anymore, and he devoted himself to putting someone else on top.

#

Zoro at least had his own strive and goal to become the world's greatest swordsman, where as Ace's strive was for someone else to be great.

split glacier
#

I bet CoC and Will tie in together.

fathom matrix
#

That's kinda why I think Garp doesn't have it either, because he's cautious, he doesn't want to rise up in ranks, he's comfortable being free (to the safest degree) he gave up his vice admiral position after the war.

He was strong and one of the most powerful characters, but he doesn't have that will or goal to be above the rest or better than anyone in a position

fathom matrix
split glacier
modest skiff
fathom matrix
#

What if at the end of their battle, King us defeated. No mask, exposed and his face can be seen.

A bunch of guards are about to see if he's okay, King gets worried, but Zoro coc haki's them and puts a rag or some cloth over his face or head.

And he asks why he would do something like that, Zoro might say "Despite the dirty tricks you pulled, you gave me a fair enough fight in end. Swordsman show respect to their opponents, regardless if their friends or foes"

tawdry bramble
#

I still think CoC manifestation is still less clear cut than people think.

modest skiff
#

I completely agree Omni

hoary grove
real swan
modest skiff
#

since zoans super heal, it feels like a reasonable assumption

real swan
#

Just wish he could learn some CoA as well, can certainly tank a lot of damage but now needs that edge against seriously strong opponents.

sand sail
#

Monster Point is extremely draining to him, that's why he reverted to a tiny form

#

But he doesn't need armament, he just needs to get stronger. Provides the same benefit

real swan
#

That's true too, and I'm glad that other characters have found ways to be strong without haki as well. I'm hoping that Franky just loots through queens tech after this fight.

jade moon
#

Imagine franky now using sasaki’s neck propeller and quite a few germa’s tech on his shogun

plush pike
#

I hope Franky makes a new tech suit after Wano because the shogun is of course a reference to Wano.

jade moon
#

So he got to make a new one using things he find from wano

grand walrus
#

so black beard has 3 heads on his flag possibly 3 devil fruits. could it require 3 people to defeat black beard? when blackbeard had his famous speech about dreams he was opposite luffy zoro and nami. It seems like it may be a team effort to finish.

plush pike
proven sand
#

Dont see bb stronger than kaido, neither his crew stronger than kaido crew

tawdry bramble
#

They will be because that’s how story progression works.

#

BB will 100% be more of a threat than Kaidou by the time he needs taken down. He’s on a similar trajectory as Luffy but won marienford instead of losing it.

sand sail
#

Blackbeard doesn't need to be stronger than Kaido to be a bigger threat, nor does the story suffer if he's beaten that way

#

All Luffy would have to do is defeat him one on one and even if he's weaker than Kaido by a good bit, that's still tons of progress Luffy's made

amber oar
#

Well, Kaido has already fought fifteen people, even if Luffy wins this match it won't have been a 1v1

hoary onyx
#

SWORD vs Shield (Cipher Pol Divisions, likely the higher ups)

muted valley
muted valley
sand sail
#

Yes, because the form is too taxing to be used like that. The drug lets him do it for longer, and it's an incredibly physically stressing form for him, it always has been

hoary grove
muted valley
# hoary grove He has no means of manufacturing or producing such an item… and if you’re giving...

Hes always been ingenious when it comes to actually producing things for scenarios. He also never had sleep darts like you said. He has Bakusio Boshi a sleeping gas he has used and got from when he was on Punk Hazard to put the children to sleep. As well as his immediate sleeping gas pop Green one he used right at the start of the Onigashima raid. Hell he has shown to go and get things from others if needed for situations. It isnt some crazy belief that he could and would procure specific things for a fight. Usopp definitely could have the means to do something.
Chopper would need to know what he was going to do to counter it. Getting a weapon or preparing drugs is a possibility. I even mentioned that and what he would need for certain things. As even not all sleep inducing agents act on the body the same and that knowledge of how they work is needed for a countermeasure. Also chopper would need to either Kisuke Urahara it or know it was Usopp's plan.

weak plaza
#

Theory Theory Fun Fun No Mi is here

Nobody would become the pirate king. They’re all gonna continue their adventure with their relationship.

IMG_9632.png IMG_9633.png
muted valley
#

But Luffy did say that the Pirate King is the one with the most freedom. So him continuing on adventures makes sense. As freedom is a common motif

weak plaza
muted valley
#

Not really understanding what you mean "laugh tale"

weak plaza
#

Let’s all survive til then.
Take care and stay healthy ya all

#

G’Day CarueSalute

weak plaza
muted valley
#

Ohh

weak plaza
#

Spoiled Mystery Egg again Oda

IMG_9634.png
muted valley
#

Yeah, for sure. I dont believe its the end of the SH adventures tho. I do think that Luffy and the crew would help the world. However if Luffy does die by the end like Roger, which I see as a possibility of him consistently pushing his body to his limits and having years shaved off.

||With Luffy fully mimicking Roger as well as the Strawhats finding out about D and inherited will. Waiting for the next Luffy to appear. Knowing that he truly isnt dead. (which is a common thing about death and has been used as a narrative element through the story, stated/implied by many) ||

muted valley
# weak plaza Spoiled Mystery Egg again Oda

I think thats more a reference to Japanese culture than anything else. Oda did say he was excited for Wano and has been putting loads of japanese history, folklore, and mythology all throughout the entire arc. Just like Yamato's Mythical Zoan, yamato's name meaning Great Harmony a old name for Japan and specific time period, Her Hannya mask, Cant remember the name but Yamato is based on a Figure in color scheme and stuff.

This is just 1 character, there have been many mentions and parallels to Japan. so the god of fire could be referring to Kagu-tsuchi son of Izanami and Izanagi, known for his raw destructive force from fire, where he killed Izanami just from burnning her to death while being born.

||Altho if we take it seriously for Luffy's new progression, that whole meme theory of Gear 5 Monkey god awakening. lol||

hoary grove
muted ember
#

My MADS theory got more evidence with Queen having all the Germa tech

spice berry
opal sparrow
#

He scar shanks without a DF

plucky kiln
#

I think in a fair 1vs1 bb against kaido, bb would loose, but we know that bb doesnt play fair, so I wouldnt underestimate blackbeard

opal sparrow
#

Probably he truly caught him off guard

opal sparrow
plucky kiln
#

we dont know what happened back then and how old they were. if it was when they were like 18 we should take blackbeard serious

plucky kiln
opal sparrow
#

Like who would’ve expected this fucking dude from jaya island would be this. I started watching one piece beginning of 2021

muted ember
#

There's different kinds of pirates

plucky kiln
#

Maybe there is more behind that scar of shanks. I mean a reason why it didnt heal. maybe a connection to blackbeards power

plucky kiln
opal sparrow
#

When I started watching OP I thought the navy was bad guys. But when I caught up in reality everyone is just human beings

muted ember
#

Yea if you're talking about real life. I was speaking in the context of the story

opal sparrow
#

Oh yea my bad.

#

When I watch anime I always use real life logic

#

Which made OP my favourite story ever told. Cuz that really ain’t the case sometimes

#

Anyways I truly believe that their needs@to be one more chapter of queen and Sanji fighting I understand people wanna get it over with. But I just love seeing the villians putting in work cuz it’s obvi they’re gonna win. Queen is my fav yonko commander after Katakuri. I just need to him to do one more attack at Sanji

#

Same with zoro I think it’s healthy af for the story he’s struggling against king. He hasn’t struggled in the new world since this.

muted ember
#

I think he's OK but I agree the fight not over

opal sparrow
#

I hope luffy is messed up and shirtless like movie z against kaido

#

I think law and kidd fight against big mom will end with a interference making it a tie cuz no way 2 yonkos going down in one arc

opal sparrow
#

And ulti she tanked big moms attack I got mad respects for her

#

Jack got wasted. He should’ve fought both neko and inu at the end not just inu but I understand he’s injured. But one thing that was satisfying was when ashura cut him. Made me believe the samurais are strong af

#

Wano as a whole has been a ride some flaws but still this my #1 arc so far cuz how everything from punk hazard lead to this moment.

devout tapir
#

yall reckon shank's bounty of 4 bill was made lower coz hes affiliated with the world gov? idk

ancient vault
ancient vault
#

Theres no time for a 3rd big mom arc and she was set up to be defeated next to Kaido

ancient vault
muted ember
ancient vault
#

How lol they disbanded decades ago

#

Didnt i disprove that to you already

#

You really think judge just recently developed germa tech? In order for it to be implemented in his children he would have had to have developed it long before getting kids anyway meaning your argument of „queen has germa tech so they mustve been together recently“ makes no real sense

devout tapir
ancient vault
#

Also how recent are you talkng about?

ancient vault
#

But shanks is clearly stronger than luffy so i dont really get the problem here

ancient vault
devout tapir
#

ye as in bounties for yonko are pretty much in terms of strength which the government knows of and if luffy does defeat kaido his bounty technically should surpass kaidos

#

ye ik aint this a theory channel

ancient vault
#

It goes more incline with his character if he himself decided to warn the gorosei of a potential threat for the world out of wanting to protect the world or keep the balance within the system

devout tapir
#

but no random pirate is gonna be able to pull up to the 5 elders

#

true

ancient vault
devout tapir
#

aight ceebs talking also moria isnt in wano

ancient vault
#

Luffy is not passing kaidos bounty. What? Hes not jumping just casually 3 bill especially if most of it was a team effort

#

This a theory channel. Expect people to criticize and challenge your ideas lol

ancient vault
#

But finally how much the bounty rises all depends on what will be reported

#

If drake says luffy solod kaido and was responsible for big mom defeat his bounty could easily jump up to 4 bil and up as u said

muted valley
muted valley
#

I remember your one theory.

ancient vault
#

We saw judge with his family when they were young. Dont really get what evidence he means

#

Queen was in wano with kaido at least 23 years ago

muted valley
#

More just curious Tray, cause it was a decent theory if it's the one I remember about MADS being recent

muted ember
ancient vault
#

Lying about what. Post the panel

ancient vault
muted ember
#

Niji said they were actually absorbed into the government

#

He said, "Vegapunk was arrested and they disbanded. Or rather, they were absorbed into the government"

#

Give the full context

ancient vault
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Yes and judge escaped

muted valley
#

Judge technically Is a king and was apart of Revire prior to WCI

ancient vault
#

I already told you that last time. Judge and queen escaped. You think they‘d let queen and judge roam freely but vegapunk has to stay home in WG facilities?

muted ember
#

Judge was part of the WG as well

muted valley
muted ember
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@muted valley

ancient vault
#

So youre saying they were together for 20 years?

muted ember
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Yes

ancient vault
#

Do you not see the issue here? Lol
Judge and queen would not have been able to roam freely if they were absorbed into the government and were together 4 years ago

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Queen was in Kaidos crew while judge was roaming around destroying kingdoms

muted ember
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That's not an issue they split their time between their own research and MADS

ancient vault
#

Let me get on my pc so i can respond proper to your text

muted ember
#

Queen doesn't have to be in Wano 24/7

proven sand
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do you think kaido and BM will be just defeated or they will be killed?

muted valley
#

Also researchers like Vegapunk do many things, vegapunk did have cyborg tech, also lasers were at Vegapunks base in his home town.

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@muted ember if we are to assume what you said it makes sense cause not all scientists need to be together. They all can do their own stuff and just meet up on occasion and share research.

muted ember
muted valley
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Because if it was sooner than later it explains vegapunks lab having loads of newer stuff. Like lasers and such.

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Actually I could be wrong but I know things were from his youth. But I didn't think it was stated all of it was.

muted ember
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I know about it he had the plans for a prototype version of the pacifista laser which is what Franky has now and some drafts for feeding objects devil fruits

ancient vault
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Everything he had there was from his youth im pretty sure. He left it behind

muted ember
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He also turned animals into cyborgs

muted valley
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Was the pacifista laser based on Kizaru? Or did he finish it with Kizaru

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Cause he could have worked on a laser idea, but it wasn't what he wanted. But once he studied kizaru it made sense and perfected it

muted ember
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He had a laser but Franky's has to charge I think he used Kizaru's fruit to upgrade it basically

ancient vault
muted valley
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I always assumed he was

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Due to Kuma and allowing him to preprogrammed a mission

ancient vault
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In his lab

muted valley
#

I assumed He allied with the revs

ancient vault
#

Vegapunk? We dont know that

muted valley
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I assumed

muted ember
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You're assuming Vegapunk can't leave his lab bc we haven't seen him in the story he probably has some level of autonomy as well

ancient vault
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Maybe him and kuma are just old friends. Maybe he just felt bad and wanted to do one good thing for kuma. Or maybe hes allied with the revs

ancient vault
#

Anyways im on my pc i wanted to reread some moments you mentioned in your big pos

muted ember
#

But still just an assumption

ancient vault
#

a very logical and reasonable one

muted valley
#

If vegapunk was loyal to WG and stuff. He likley wouldn't allow Kuma to protect the SHs. He had to have known what his mission was. As he programmed it into Kuma

We also know Kuma volunteered to be a cyborg. So there is a reason and working with the #1 scientist who makes all the stuff for gov. Is good for many reasons, knowledge and also if Vegapunk doesn't Ike the Celestial dragons and WG as is. He would likley try and help against them.

MADS shows that he isn't strictly WG affiliated rather under duress.

Also IF vegapunk was allied somewhat with the revs, him making the pacifistas and his new project. He likley would put counter measures in like a Order66 or Kill switch. If the time ever came to needing to. Which would benefit a war on the WG from Rev side.

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He also has the people's interest at hear, as was shown and stated with his hometown

muted ember
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Vegapunk would rather science be used to progress peace than war

muted valley
#

It also seems that MADS has a scientist from every affiliation

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If we assume vegapunk was to be more allied with the people/revs than wg

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It also ties Kuma sacrificing himself

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Recruiting and setting up plans with vegapunk who is doing soo much for the WG and is a major power source for them. Would be extremely beneficial. Like the WG has pacifistas and new weapons. Which is overwhelming

Being able to disable them or order 66 them if a opportunity comes out seems natural.

ancient vault
#

@muted ember is that one big post alll points you make or could you like add the others since I dont wanna go a back and forth

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Wano/Post time skip theory:

TLDR: MADS was together on PH 4 years ago.

First, I just find it hard to believe Momo's fruit was just sitting there for a long time (decades if they truly disbanded). Niji said Vegapunk was arrested, but then he said "they" were disbanded... "or rather absorbed into the government." We know Judge had a spot at the Reverie until recently when his attempt at an alliance with pirates was exposed. Is "they" Vegapunk and his team?

On Punk Hazard, one of the blocks is R-66 even though there are only blocks A-D, it seems out of place. Maybe this is a tribute to Reiju as the first enhanced child, who happens to have a 66 tattoo on her legs. Moreover, Sanji read the devil fruit encyclopedia as a small child, one of few characters who even mention it, and Koby heavily implies all these discoveries were made by Vegapunk. Did he show Sanji his book on a visit to Germa?

The sign on the entrance to PH has a World Government and Marine symbol next to what appears to be Onigashima, implying it could be jointly controlled by Kaido and the WG. The island does not appear on log poses, possibly because Kaido has moved it from its original location multiple times, and it is conveniently close enough to Dressrosa that Doflamingo can fly there in a few hours.

Kaido could have been made a Shichibukai at some point, establishing a connection with the WG, and when he left and became a Yonko he somehow made sure Joker would take his spot, maintaining the link between his underworld business and the government. Something interesting to note here is that Queen's laser is very similar to the pacifista, which Drake says employ Kizaru's lasers. If Queen has had recent encounters with Vegapunk, it would make sense for him to have access to the same technology

To lazy to scroll lol

muted ember
muted valley
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Also it might explain why Vegapunk Said the fruit was a failure. As he DIDNT want to give them a complete and powerful DF, then probably create more.

As we saw the Fruit was isolated and looked less like a failure but more like a museum piece of his work.

ancient vault
#

no additional points? alright then I'll just adress this

muted valley
#

Also if MADS was sooner, like the DF like you said. Queen might have just got Kaidos DNA and gave to vegapunk to research. Which might explain why they were allowed to operate so long.

muted ember
#

Besides the stuff Queen said about having Germa science this chapter, yea

ancient vault
muted valley
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Kaido doesn't need to know, selling DNA for something like numbers without him knowing the true intent. Isn't unlike scientists

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Especially if they just said it was research into stronger monsters

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I'm willing to bet they did something similar with Big mom to recreate her strength.

Finding what in DNA gave what attributes, like irl

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We know that Vegapunk studied DNA and did find the lineage factor

muted valley
#

@muted ember
@sw
if Kaido was a shibukai at one point. We have seen that pirates under the shibukai is fine and allowed. Which makes sense. As kaido was doing that

We saw Fujitora say that when he questioned Law and Luffys alliance. Stating if Luffy was under Law then its fine. But if it's an alliance Law is in trouble.

It'd make sense that kaido would have an underling that was free to do science with a bunch of mad scientists and get off the hook.

Also we know the shibukai use their positions to consolidate power while not worrying about the marines/wg.

As for the island I don't think it's much of a stretch if either the island is manmade(like could be kaido move it) or that vegapunk and them figured out how to completely negate a log pose. Destroying what causes the pose to work or having a tech that disrupts the natural magnetic waves.

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@ancient vault ment to add you but phone crapped out

muted ember
muted valley
#

Could elaborate more on my thoughts, but I'm tired. I have a bunch related to that

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Forgot about that

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Also I think we talked about how the Shibukai isn't a new system.

I theorized it started at the start of the great pirate Era. Due to the rapid influx of pirates.

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Also kaido fits having a animal motif that all the other shibukai have.

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Makes me wonder who the old emperors were (BM/WB were) but we know Shanks is relatively new. Kaido likley wasn't one when Oden died. So he's new as well.

muted ember
#

Kaido being a warlord is probably the most speculative part of the theory but what you're saying makes sense

muted valley
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But the new world might have been more chaotic 20 years prior and only after the 3 or 4 warlords did it come peacefull(relatively where each guards their territory but none actively start a war)

#

WB might mot have been a emperor till after Roger died. As we saw him with Oden and it seemed like he was still expanding and gaining power.

#

He didn't have his commanders yet

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The yonko might be a relatively new term in the OP world. Just had powerful pirates. As yonko = 4 emporer

waxen ether
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There is a creature bigger than giant race pulling the continent long before great pirate era begin, that's why god valley vanished from new World.

muted valley
#

We don't know how it disappeared

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The wg with a weapon I'd 1 way

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But oars the continent puller was likley dead

ancient vault
#

@drowsy pecan can you disable slow mode in here for a second? I wanna post sth long

prime bluff
#

Has anybody noticed gorosei swords
It looks like one of the special grade sword

ancient vault
#

In respond to Trays: "MADS was together on PH 4 years ago"- theory

In advance:
You havent really made any real hardcore argument which is why this is so hard to disprove. (I mean not a well thought out essay-like post but its okay). Youre just collecting ideas, stuff you remembered and assumptions here and there. It doesnt really have one following thought of line for a solid theory.

First, I just find it hard to believe Momo's fruit was just sitting there for a long time (decades if they truly disbanded).

Youre assuming it was MADS that developed on Kaido when thats simply not true. Only vegapunk alone was mentioned by CP0 and it was never said when exactly that experiment happened. It was between the time they disbanded and 4 years ago (that was when the fruit was created I believe correct me if wrong). Meaning its at least 2 decades ago maybe even more. Couldve happened anytime in between there. (I havent seen good theories trying to predict the time with proper reasoning and evidence yet)

#

Niji said Vegapunk was arrested, but then he said "they" were disbanded... "or rather absorbed into the government." We know Judge had a spot at the Reverie until recently when his attempt at an alliance with pirates was exposed. Is "they" Vegapunk and his team?

Yes, they is clearly the entirety of MADS. The three leading scientists Vegapunk, Queen and Judge (I think caesar wasnt that good yet he was more like an assistant based on the fact he started blooming 4 years ago in PH) probably with their team of scientists, engineers and whatever that helped them build whatever they needed to built or research on.

Youre skipping a lot of stuff.
They were arrested and absorbed. Absorbed here means that MADS was now working for the WG or was supposed to be. All of this happened before the birth of Reiju meaning at least 24 (or well at least 25 since reiju is 24) years ago. Couldve been way earlier too like maybe 30 years ago.
Niji specifically speaks in a past tense when talking about the time while working in MADS with Vegapunk before they were born indicating that was the end. After they were born Judge wasnt working in MADS anymore.
Important detail here is that judge escaped their grasp and we saw him at Reijus birth as well as the other boys'.
Queen on the other hand we saw in Wano with Kaido 23 years ago so he escaped as well.

Judge had a spot in reverie simply because Germa is a country. They were raiding other countries but not involved in any piracy up until WCI. Involvement with pirates means getting kicked out instantly. Exceptions are the shichibukai for example Doffy.

#

I just want to say the choices of words "arrest" and "absorb" are clearly an indicator for the fact that this happened against their will and Judge escaping means obviously this wasnt a business deal like you make it out to be. They dont leave in and out and research when ever they want to. That just simply doesnt make sense. If it was so they wouldve tried to hire them.

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On Punk Hazard, one of the blocks is R-66 even though there are only blocks A-D, it seems out of place. Maybe this is a tribute to Reiju as the first enhanced child, who happens to have a 66 tattoo on her legs.

First of all. We have no idea what this R-66 thing meant. It was mentioned only twice in Punk Hazard but we dont know its meaning. I agree that it sticks out but thats the way research facilities are built. I dont know why a building is called R. But the door R-66 leads through a gateway outside to the sea. In that gateway theres literally nothing. Its just a tunnel. Theres no connection to germa that can be made except for the number 66. (Also 66 has nothing to do with Reiju but everything with Germa, its germas "official" name/number. Germa-66)

0689-003.png
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Moreover, Sanji read the devil fruit encyclopedia as a small child, one of few characters who even mention it, and Koby heavily implies all these discoveries were made by Vegapunk. Did he show Sanji his book on a visit to Germa?

He didnt show it to Sanji. Judge owns a devil fruit book himself. We literally see it in the flashback next to sanji.

Teach also has or had a version of a Devil Fruit book. Thats how he knew about the yami yami no mi.

Btw I dont remember coby hinting at VP writing the devil fruit book could you show me that?

unknown.png
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The sign on the entrance to PH has a World Government and Marine symbol next to what appears to be Onigashima, implying it could be jointly controlled by Kaido and the WG. The island does not appear on log poses, possibly because Kaido has moved it from its original location multiple times, and it is conveniently close enough to Dressrosa that Doflamingo can fly there in a few hours.

I was argueing once for that too but if you look at the sign there are subtle differences in the signs of the marines and WG and in the sign with the Oni skull.

Dangers signs never point down. They always point up. Like the one with the oni skull. While the two other two point down. Thats because theyre tokens, emblems or insignias as the manga calls it.

The oni skull sign pointing up means danger because the World Government was experimenting on Ancient Giants (look like Oni skull). Further evidence for this is the melted Ancient Giant skull Usopp finds right after and generally Laws comments on gigantification experiments on this island.
It was a warning sign and is very likely not related to Onigashima nor to Kaido owning or being based on that island.

About the log pose. Some islands simply dont have a magnetic field that can be detected with the log pose. Maybe that was the reason why the WG specifically selected this island for secret scientific research. Maybe Vegapunk managed to do something about the magnetic field himself.

unknown.png
#

Kaido could have been made a Shichibukai at some point, establishing a connection with the WG, and when he left and became a Yonko he somehow made sure Joker would take his spot, maintaining the link between his underworld business and the government. Something interesting to note here is that Queen's laser is very similar to the pacifista, which Drake says employ Kizaru's lasers. If Queen has had recent encounters with Vegapunk, it would make sense for him to have access to the same technology

So regarding the shichibukai stuff. We dont know and I guess thats up for assumption. I doubt it since Kaido is not really the type to work for them and he got arrested multiple times in his youth so he shouldve been kicked him out long long ago anyways. But whatever, I wont really adress that since I already showed you why Kaido most likely didnt own or had control over the island previously to Caesar blowing it up.

Regarding laser its fairly simple. Vegapunk had already developed the lasers as a kid. Franky found those blueprints as you know.
Obviously the difference between the old and new one. The Pacifista and Queen can spam them unlike Franky due to longer charging time.

I dont really have a lot to say here aside from Queen possibly having captered a Pacifista and examined him. I think the lasers were already done and developed during the time with MADS. Especially since MADS wasnt really focused on lasers but rather on the biological aspect of science. Their biggest discovery after all was the linage factor and the ability to manipulate it.
But I dont have a lot to say here really.

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If Kaido was a shibukai at one point. We have seen that pirates under the shibukai is fine and allowed. Which makes sense. As kaido was doing that

Kaido was also constantly being arrested so yeah. You dont get arrested if youre a shichibukai. Especially not that often so that idea alone has holes already,

We saw Fujitora say that when he questioned Law and Luffys alliance. Stating if Luffy was under Law then its fine. But if it's an alliance Law is in trouble.

It'd make sense that kaido would have an underling that was free to do science with a bunch of mad scientists and get off the hook.

Same argument as above

As for the island I don't think it's much of a stretch if either the island is manmade(like could be kaido move it) or that vegapunk and them figured out how to completely negate a log pose. Destroying what causes the pose to work or having a tech that disrupts the natural magnetic waves.

I doubt its manmade but I agree with the ladder a I made the same point above (didnt read your message before)

All in all your theory lacks to much solid evidence. The arguments you bring up you dont provide with actual proof like panels, dialogue or sth from a vivrecard or so. Its also just many ideas you thought of listed underneath each other. Nothing has a particular thought of line. Probably because you didnt really think everything well out before you typed it out which is totally fine. Not everyone has to type out essay-like theories but it leads to mistakes like these.

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done

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@muted ember @muted valley @sand sail ( i saw u argueing a bit wth him to last time thought Id ping u sry if ur interested in it lmao)
@modest skiff

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thanks arsal

visual furnace
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Arsal the lurk master

night jewel
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np

daring tinsel
#

So I've been thinking about what if Oda wanted to translate One Piece to completely non supernatural elements, in order to get the real world metaphors behind some of the stuff in the series

#

So far I'm thinking:

  • Armament Haki - complete confidence in your own fighting abilities
  • Observation Haki - knowing thy enemy
  • Conqueror's Haki - self-actualization, and acceptance of self,
  • Devil fruit powers - using your own unique skills/quirks/personality traits to the best possible effect
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  • Will of D - full acceptance of your own eventual death, and using it to the best of your abilities
muted valley
#

@ancient vault kaido could be arrested prior to shibukai, not like Buggy wasn't arrested and given power. After the fact due to his notoriety and assumed power.

There's over 25 years between Rocks and Odens death. If he was a shibukai like I stated. It'd likley be after Rogers death and the start of the great pirate Era. He was in Wano building his power at that time, with Orochi. His younger years before Wano when he wasn't as strong but his body still would break spears and guillotines is likley due to how Oden was the ONLY one to leave a scar on him.

#

Also Kaido's introduction was no one wins 1 on 1, implying its a team effort to capture him

ancient vault
#

Letting him rule over Wano? Doesnt work. Wano was never under the WGs control

muted valley
#

Why the hell did the WG trust any of the warlords?

ancient vault
muted valley
#

The WG isn't always all knowing. We see there is lack of knowledge for many things, that they don't account for.

They let Crocodile nearly destroy Alabasta and get a Polnyglyph about an ancient weapon

ancient vault
#

Even if you take the likes of Crocodile in there. He is not comparable to Kaido

#

Sorry caught not sentenced to death

unknown.png
muted valley
#

Boa Hancock has an extreme hatred to the WG and its stated multiple times. That she doesn't care about them.

ancient vault
muted valley
#

Why would they trust her?

#

Shibukai are used to thin out new pirates

ancient vault
#

Because shes not stupid and reasonable. She fcks up and her country is getting raided

muted valley
#

It's been stated they are to maintain the balance, as a tool for the wg if called upon. However they expect the shibukai to take out pirate crews

#

She litterally was going to let it get raided till luffy convinced her to help him

ancient vault
#

No Im asking whats the point of Kaido entering the shichibukai

muted valley
#

The same as Moria, crocodile, BB, doffy

To not have the Navy after him and be able to consolidate power.

ancient vault
#

Dont you think thats a bit to late after getting captured 18 times?

muted valley
#

No

#

They caught him so many times, why didn't they think they could do it again? Use him to wipe out crews like he did to moria.

#

The shibukai have been talked about being wild cards with most marines having 0 trust in the system

#

Pirate alliances end with treachery. Its stated many times and we have seen the shibukai system has been used exactly for that against the wg/navy

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Should be noted, if they tried to get him so many times and failed, why not recruit for a system you have in place. With the sole purpose being to curb other pirates and be a military power if called on. As long as he isn't actively messing with the WG, he isn't a active threat to them and the benefits at the time will outweigh the negatives.

ancient vault
#

Could you give me a time in which that would have happened?

ancient vault
# muted valley They caught him so many times, why didn't they think they could do it again? Use...

Because he escaped every time and they would not let him out just like that. Therefore he either escaped out of sheer force or through some form of other help. Betrayal on WG side or blackmail?

Also their idea of them wanting the warlords to wipe out crews backfires when Kaido takes in almost every crew he defeats growing bigger and bigger becoming the pirate threat that the warlords are actually supposed to fight against.

muted valley
#

Also the marines wernt every single time

#

He had other pirate crews capture him

prime bluff
#

Does anybody see gorosei swords

ancient vault
# muted valley

I dont remember saying kaido was only captured by the navy

muted valley
#

You're implying it when you say "they captured him"

ancient vault
#

What?

#

Ah ik what you mean now

ancient vault
#

the oldest warlord we got is 16 years ago with croco right? THat already outdates the yonko system

muted valley
#

What warlord is that?

ancient vault
#

Crocodile is even older than 16 years ago

#

16 years ago is only the time where he relocated to alabasta

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Similar to Luffy, back when he was young, Crocodile's name spread across the seas with incredible momentum, but soon after he was admitted into the Shichibukai in his mid-20's, he tried to fight Whitebeard and was completely and utterly crushed by him.

About 21 years ago if we take "mid 20s" as 25 year old Crocodile

muted valley
#

And I stated they likley introduced the shibukai at the start of the great pirate Era, after Roger's death due to the insane influx of pirates and how it shifted the seas tremendously. Which yes would predate the yonko. Hell I don't think Kaido was a Emporer 20 years prior. WB Def wasn't when he picked up Oden. So the emporers are a newer system.

#

Crocodile is 44.

That also means the shibukai was in place at least 16 years prior, likley longer. While we also saw crocodile at Roger's execution IIRC. Which I think was implied he was there before he made his name.

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Doffy was 10 years ago

ancient vault
muted valley
#

The seas are always in a chaotic state. But WG recruiting a strong pirate who was strong and could wipe out others. Plays right in line with what they want Shibukai for. Not sure if moria was one then.

However we have seen that they come and go and do get replaced. It likley has been that way for a while. As pirates being pirates and trying to consolidate their power and use the shibukai position to their advantage is common among most of them. Law, doffy, crocodile, bb, moria. With mihawk just wiping out pirates looking for swordsmen, jinbei wanting to help his species, boa securing saftey of Kuja, Buggy using it to make money.

They all have a personal goal of some sort, either to be safe or the aim higher and still become king.

ancient vault
#

just for reference
Crocodile became one 21 years ago (around that)
Moria 12
Hancock 13
Jinbei 11
And Doffy 10 years ago

That leaves Kuma and Mihawk out

ancient vault
#

It might just be me personally but I dont see the need in Kaido having to go under the warlord title to seek protection and safety. He was already stationed in wano before Roger even died and the WG is not coming anywhere close to Wano at all

pure raven
pure raven
hollow grotto
pure raven
#

yea

hollow grotto
#

was this ever cleared up?

pure raven
#

idk, its just a theory

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chapter 49, panel 5