manga-theories

[fading thorn]

well then what would be the point of sending koby to capture boa only to have nothing happen

oh and how does garp know of the relationship between boa and luffy?

[pseudo citrus]

he could have seen when they got married at marineford

[bitter kraken]

I thought it was umm crap I can’t think of his name lol but the blind admiral and koby who went after boa not Garp

Fuji^ my bad

[fading thorn]

fujitora went after boa?

[bitter kraken]

That’s who I always thought it was that did, unless I’m nuts and it was actually garp lol

[fading thorn]

i dont think garp is going after boa, i think he could be a potential person that can highlight koby and boas relationship with luffy

because if boa doesnt know what luffy did for koby, shes gonna whoop kobys ass back to the east blue

[bitter kraken]

I just remembered, Garp isn’t active like that in marines anymore so they wouldn’t send him to capture a warlord

[grizzled fog]

Garp doesn’t know about boa and luffy’s relationship, and we don’t know who’s going after boa other than koby atm. Fujitora seems to just be potentially headed there, based on him being on a ship surrounded by sea kings last we saw, and him potentially being an ideal matchup for boa

[weak flicker]

That, or another vice admiral.

[bitter kraken]

No momos DF was created by the government for whatever reason

[grizzled fog]

Why would Vegapunk make Yamato a fruit

[weak flicker]

No, wait, sorry, I was thinking of a different DF user.

[bitter kraken]

Anyone else think Enels fruit was wasted on him? With how powerful it is and enel being on the moon. Another user who would be in the world woulda been better like Yamato imagine her having that fruit instead of the one she has 🤩

[weary cliff]

It's a good think the goro goro no mi got it's showcase early on in the series. Taking away one of the strongest fruits makes the later story easy to manage

[upbeat mist]

i mean i think it was made more powerful than if it was added later

[pure raven]

quick question , i just finished reading the enies lobby arc and remembered that lucci mentioned that luffy cuts his lifetime every time he uses gear 2 , is that confirmed or true by any chance?

[upbeat mist]

like its power seems so off the charts compared to everything else thats came later it doesnt make much snse

[bitter kraken]

I think that’s true, I actually think that roger had that fruit before luffy and it was the gears that cost him his life

[pure raven]

i thought it was a illness or something. what makes you say roger had luffys fruit tho?

[upbeat mist]

if roger had it, why would none of the people who knew him mention it? esp shanks when talking to anyone, or the WG wanting to kill him for having a roger connection

[upbeat mist]

iirc the translation is more "your body is under so much stress it might kill you, youre chipping away at your life whenever you use it"

[bitter kraken]

I could be hella wrong but it never really specified what the illness was, we saw roger throw up blood but he was still able to fight at a high caliber and then shanks goes and steals the fruit and who’s who was supposed to guard it, so the fruit is special it having belonged the the pirate king could be why but like I don’t have any concrete proof or anything it’s just what I’d like to happen lol

[pure raven]

yeah that's what it said , i assumed the "chipping away at your life" as in he is cutting his life in someway, read it somewhere where it said he looses some time off his life but i wasn't sure if it was a legit.

[grizzled fog]

!g2

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/833428729266438194/861888283901165578/image0-4__01.jpg

[pure raven]

Dont know why people saying that this panel meant that laughtale was below under the ennies lobby and merry was hinting them.

Because what i could understand was that merry was below(under the sea) and all the shs jumped into the sea and merry came up ()from under the sea

And as afr as laughtale under the en.lobby is concerned merry wouldnt have known as she wouldnt have known its whereabouts cause kf

1 laughtale needed to be too deep inside the sea similar to fishman island.

2 merry wouldnt have gone that deep as she didnt had coating anf coating is needed for ships to survivr form pressure under water

3 merry not in the condition to go too underwater she was a deadman already

3. And if merry didnt go so deep inside then she couldnt have known as i dont see any possiblity of her getting a dream of ltales location.

I think if we combine these two theory’s https://youtu.be/3ci1Wq2hby8

https://youtu.be/qYzqDJBeI9Q then I think we are on to something

[low heart]

I hope crocodile was previously a women at some point theory actually be true it will be very funny and it will explain why he's so insecure about it bc ivankov knows it lol..

I have to ask how many of y'all thought of that when watching /reading the scene for the first time cause it didn't cross my mind at all until I saw the theory myself and ppl talking about it lol

[ancient vault]

merry wasnt under the sea tho

she simply told them to look down from the tower lol. Theres nothing about being under water

[ancient vault]

i read it when i was like 10 or 11 i got an excuse

[low heart]

I don't have an excuse I didn't even consider it an option but damn props to anyone who thought of it at the moment of watching 💀💀

[pure raven]

Yeah but couldnt have gone too deep as sea pressure would have crushed it

[pure raven]

Yeah same

But some guys misunderstanding it as lookung at laughtale

[waxen dust]

Offline all day and people still talking about this overhyped theory smh

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/833428729266438194/861888283901165578/image0-4__01.jpg

[light onyx]

Oh my

[junior field]

wait also manga dissappered

[grizzled fog]

You probably hid it on accident

[junior field]

wtf

[runic osprey]

I think a new gear 4th form

Gear 4th form that will contain both advanved conq and armanent

[broken holly]

yo

i found this sick there from a youtube comment section on luffys df

*theory

[plush hornet]

i stopped reading right after i saw luffy's df not being gomu gomu lol

[broken holly]

u read it all it actually make sense

[pure raven]

@broken holly i read all of that for some reason. so you are saying luffy's df is this god:

i dont see any explanation for how he can stretch

it also needs to account for luffy being completely resistant to enel's logia attacks

[broken holly]

it’s more liked based off the god and the explanation kinda is like the god meaning disfigured jaw which could be a reference to stretching it/rubber

[broken holly]

that’s is true

[cyan berry]

You understand how big of a reach that is right

[broken holly]

yes ik this ain’t perfect but it aligns somewhat with the want story and i think it’s cool

[cyan berry]

It really doesn't

[broken holly]

*wano

[cyan berry]

There's a devil fruit encyclopedia

Almost every known fruit is in in book along with their name

[lost sky]

luffy cannot lie and hes said hes a rubber man many times

[cyan berry]

Unless you mean that the WG was able to successfully lie to the entire world and every printing press on the planet about the name of a singular fruit

[broken holly]

yeah the WG has the power to do so

[broken holly]

it never said luffy lied?

the theory is that the gomu gomu no mi awakening transform the fruit into the human human fruit

that is based of some god which could align with yamato having a df based of a god in most recent chapter

[lost sky]

chopper has the human human fruit

[broken holly]

oh yeah ur right i didn’t mean that

ik the theory has some wholes but i think it on the right track and luffys true df is being hidden by wg seeing as it was a heavily guarded fruit

*holes

[lost sky]

ye there is defo some god-level type powerup coming for luffy, idk if it will be from his fruit tho

[broken holly]

yeah i guess we will have to see
in Oda we trust 🙏🏾

[glad raft]

Luffy transforming into a monkey lol

[whole abyss]

So does Sengoku, it could be a different model

[pure raven]

anyone caught up and wanna talk about theories?

[ember trench]

Whatever powerup he gets next will have to be from his fruit

Can’t imagine any more haki boosts after Wano

Most likely will be awakening

[whole abyss]

Maybe he'll turn surfaces into rubber and bounce off of them into people

[autumn crane]

that's kinda lame

[whole abyss]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[peak cape]

Nah he'll be able to turn air into rubber and use it as a shield.

[pure raven]

[pure raven]

hello there, did someone heard about Yude Ron's theory? didn't saw it yet

[delicate sedge]

doesnt every df user know its fruit name and basic skill at the moment right after eating it?
Luffy is sure he has the gum gum

[pure raven]

i dont think so, iirc brook ate his df and had no idea what it did
edit: this is wrong, i need to double check.

[pine delta]

well he found out later

because at his death he was like dw im gonna come back eventually

[pure raven]

yes of course, but not immediately after eating it which is the main point being made here, don't think df users know the fruit name/effect immediately after eating, unless brook was just a special case
edit: this is wrong, i need to double check.

so its very possible luffy's df name is something different with additional effects, since he should not know the name based on eating the fruit alone, gum-gum is just a name assigned to it from others
(not arguing for that hanuman theory though)

[sinful wedge]

Is this just a throwaway or could this Salineden city be a thing later?

[waxen dust]

This actually might be an island we could visit Saline is commonly used in medicine, this island might be for a Chopper focused arc

[night jewel]

its a mistranslation.

Luffy says something like " I used to play with salt all the time when i was little" in the officials

[sinful wedge]

oh damn lol

[waxen dust]

Ah yeah, then so much for Chopper related stuff LOL. Idk how they can do such a big mistranslation and make up an entire island

[queen arrow]

in short, it's a gag where Luffy and Zoro have no idea of what Nami is talking about

[tired osprey]

thats why i hate fan translations lol

wonder whose translation the colored used, jbox, mstream?

[amber oar]

Varies depending on arc

[dapper glacier]

do you think luffy will really fight shanks

because he is one of the four emperor's of the sea

[modest skiff]

I think Shanks has protected Luffy because he has a reason to believe whoever ate the Gomu at roughly the time Luffy did is important. He’ll want to fight Luffy eventually, and he will make sure to try his hardest, but I don’t think there will be any bloodlust

[dapper glacier]

I think shanks will give up his position of empor for luffy

[bitter kraken]

I think shanks could kill luffy, luffy is hurt by blades and shanks is a top notch sword user presumably and known to have powerful coc and he for sure knows how to coat himself in it while why this dude hasn’t smoked BB is beyond me

[dapper glacier]

shanks has the strength to kill luffy but in the end it mite be a fight between them with dragon getting in the mix of things

[waxen dust]

Shanks gets the Straw Hat back from Luffy and says “Thanks” then proceeds to stab Luffy through the heart with Gryphon

[dapper glacier]

shanks would not kill luffy

[gusty cobalt]

i think shanks will try to stop Luffy.... i mean, he probably cant imagine luffy beating BB or gorosei. shanks obviously knows a lot and he seems to be a mediator of the world, kind of preventing a (the) war from happening. id like that to happen, yk, he wont want to see luffy defying the world government

[grim harness]

Guys, have you seen the viral theory yet?

[dapper glacier]

no

[waxen dust]

please no more

[gusty cobalt]

which one

[grim harness]

Search “The Best One Piece theory you’ll ever watch, i guess”

[gusty cobalt]

oh i saw this. it's really good

[grim harness]

His theory blown the op community😂

[waxen dust]

Please stop talking about that theory, it’s not even that good

[gusty cobalt]

still good

[grim harness]

True

[waxen dust]

https://tenor.com/view/friends-ross-yeah-right-big-eyes-i-dont-believe-you-gif-12376258

[gusty cobalt]

whose is the theory that says joyboy was a ope ope user and he kind of divided the world (pangea). it also fits on ohara's theory right?

[dapper glacier]

yo his theory is good

[gusty cobalt]

imagine a giant (joyboy) with ope ope lol "colossal room"

[dapper glacier]

oh god

ope ope fruit is my fav fruite

[gusty cobalt]

literally op 😵
it's a really good theory actually, if oda did that id be 120% satisfied. it makes a lot of sense because itd explain how the world became kind of a game. i mean, look at grand line, calm belt and the fact that that is a preprogrammed route. since the ope ope preserves things (like hearts), it would make sense for the islands to be so crazy

[dapper glacier]

I never thought of the ope ope fruit like that

[gusty cobalt]

and maybe im sama was the one ordering it. as if he forces joyboy to do what he wants and then forces him (joyboy) to make himself (im) immortal. then that's why he keeps that giant straw hat with him. (that's probably a theory already)

[dapper glacier]

the ope ope fruit is op

[gusty cobalt]

yeah I like it

bruh imagine any fruit used by a giant😵

[dapper glacier]

that wouldn't be fair at all

[gusty cobalt]

that's why oda doesn't do this. he always avoids difficult things to deal with

[dapper glacier]

the earth wouldn't be here any more it'd be just ruble everyware

[gusty cobalt]

ruble?

[tardy dune]

I think they meant rubble

[gusty cobalt]

sorry im not fluent lol

[gusty cobalt]

you're right, so what

[dapper glacier]

yea

rubble

it auto corected

[pure raven]

Could Kaido's full name be Kaido Kurozumi? 🤔 Since Kaido said losing that mythical zoan fruit to someone claiming to be Oden especially painful. It is weak, I know, but Kaidou seems to have a deeper tie to Wano than just being a place he conquered.

[amber oar]

nah, it's because what Oden means to him

Kaido feels like he never beat Oden; the hag helped him with a dirty trick when he was cornered. So Yamato wanting to be Oden is like his ghost haunting him all over again

[pure raven]

Fair enough

[amber oar]

Yamato getting that fruit on top of that, is the icing of the cake

[proud tree]

Does Kaido have no problems with killing Yamato? Or does he have some father feelings to her?

[peak cape]

I assume he'd prefer not to or he would have probably killed her all the other times.

[restive hearth]

ok guys so hear me out

i had a dream where in the next arc some bad guys take zoro

and they basically turn him into a snail phone somehow and his nose gets really long and it’s really weird and he can’t ever fight again until they fix him somehow

and then we meet dr vegapunk

and luffy kicks the shit out of him for testing on zoro

[pure raven]

lmao So like Uzoropp the Den-Den Mushi

[rough imp]

yk what if the main villian ends up being coby💀

[harsh river]

I feel like kaido has the slightest bit amount of love for yamato

shown by how yamatos not dead and that kaido goes along with yamato identifying as a man

[noble fractal]

I like to think Kaido loves Yamato, in a fatherly way. He's challenged Kaido multiple times, and Kaido could've killed Yamato, all of those times. It's very subtle, but I feel it's there.

[weary cliff]

Either twisted love or extreme pragmatism

[pseudo citrus]

I posted this on WorstGen, but I'm feeling pretty good about it, so I figured I might as well share here:

Yamato's "identity crisis" is not what it seems to be
Oden's journal contains a prophecy about how strong pirates will enter the New World and help take down Kaido. Yamato appears to be having an identity crisis, spouting off seemingly inconsistent lines left and right. However, Yamato has not once denied their birth name; what Yamato doesn't understand is who plays what role in the prophecy. As the story is unfolding, Yamato is actually trying to understand what's happening in the context of the prophecy, and we can understand everything they've said by stepping through chronologically with this in mind.

1. Finding the journal: Yamato witnesses the death of Oden, and believes his family and all of his retainers are also dead. Upon finding the journal, Yamato learns that Oden was supposed to open Wano for Joyboy's arrival. Yamato begins to think of "Oden" as the one who fulfills the prophecy in the journal: a free man that helps strong pirates overcome Kaido and open Wano. Yamato thinks that they're the only one that knows this, and resolves to fulfill the prophecy and "become Oden".
2. Meeting Ace: Yamato meets Ace, and doesn't mention becoming "Oden" once. After all, nobody needs to be "Oden" until the time of the prophecy. However, Yamato does form a close connection with Ace, and learns all about Luffy.
3. Meeting Luffy: Yamato introduces themselves to Luffy, saying "I've been waiting for you! I'm Yamato, Kaido's son!" We're meant to think that this is "Oden" waiting for Joyboy, the one from the prophecy. However, Yamato is not sure which if any of the invading pirates is Joyboy. Instead, they seek out the one they do know: Luffy, Ace's brother. We know that Luffy is the one Yamato is waiting for from the titles of Chapters 999-1000: "The sake I brewed while waiting for you", "Straw Hat Luffy". Yamato even uses the name and title which Ace knew, in the off chance that Ace mentioned Yamato to Luffy.
4. Attic conversation: Yamato explains to Luffy that since the Akazaya Samurai are dead, "someone has to carry on Oden's will", so they will do it. When Luffy questions this, Yamato reacts by trying to apply the prophecy: maybe Luffy is the free man that will help open Wano, or "more Oden than me".
5. Learning that Momonosuke lives: One of the last things that Oden said before he entered the boiling oil was "it is imperative that I survive". He believes, from the prophecy, that he is the one that will guide the world to the Dawn. Yamato isn't able to reconcile this part of the prophecy until they learn that Momonosuke is alive, at which point Yamato realizes Momonosuke plays the role Oden believed was his. Yamato is willing to die for Momonosuke not because they think Momonosuke is their son, but because Momonosuke is that important.

6. Encounter with Ulti: Luffy has now freed Yamato, reinforcing their belief that they are the free man that will aid the pirates against Kaido. Yamato says "today is the day when I become Oden". Ulti is confused by this, as this is the first she's hearing about Yamato's "identity crisis".
7. Meeting Momonosuke: Yamato is surprised to be entrusted with Momonosuke by Luffy; why would Luffy trust Kaido's child, who he met 5 minutes ago, with the leader of the Samurai? However, Yamato remembers that they fit the role "Oden" from the prophecy, and Luffy's trust follows as a natural consequence.
8. Protecting Momonosuke: When Yamato finally catches up to Momonosuke, they say "I used your father's name earlier, but my other name is Yamato!" From here on, Yamato uses Oden's name only in the context of opposing Kaido, because they want to fulfill the prophecy. Yamato patiently explains: "Kaido is my father... But don't worry, I hate him! I told you, I'm Oden, right?" This is also when Yamato realizes that Luffy, the one that Momonosuke brought to Wano, must be the one Oden was waiting for.
9. Challenging Kaido: Armed with the knowledge that Luffy's role in the prophecy, Yamato accepts the role of "Oden", or the one who helps the pirates take down Kaido. "How can I call myself Oden if I don't fight for Wano?"... Oden abandoned Wano, but "Oden" is the one who will fight for it. Again, Yamato doesn't claim to literally be Oden, but is instead using the name.
   --
   Yamato is a character that has said many seemingly contradictory things. I feel that people who write them off as being a poorly written, shoehorned character are underestimating Oda, and that it's worth looking for a way to reconcile these contradictions. What I've presented here is the best I've been able to come up with yet, but I'm still missing some critical details, which I'm sure will be fleshed out once we learn more.

[pure raven]

i cant read

[modest skiff]

Yamato is a character that has said many seemingly contradictory things. I feel that people who write them off as being a poorly written, shoehorned character are underestimating Oda, and that it's worth looking for a way to reconcile these contradictions. What I've presented here is the best I've been able to come up with yet, but I'm still missing some critical details, which I'm sure will be fleshed out once we learn more.

First of all @pseudo citrus I totally agree with everything you've said. This whole thing seems like Yamato knows a lot of things we don't and the situation is also quite tense, so they are giving us the best they can in the 2 seconds they have to explain. Look at the situation going on. Do people really expect Yamato to sit Luffy down like Sengoku did with the navy? Of course not, the island is FLOATING IN THE AIR FFS. But I want to focus on this quoted part for a bit because there is a **tragic ** number of people on this server who always seem to think they are smarter than Oda. It happens all the time. It never turns out to be right. We will always be wrong and Oda will always be right. We should let ourselves enjoy what Oda is creating rather than arrogantly thinking we understand something he doesn't.

[pseudo citrus]

Thanks! It's clear Oda has something planned, and what I wrote is just what feels the most right to me, from what we know... but I can't help but be bothered when people write Yamato off so easily, especially since Oda has invested a lot into this thread

[modest skiff]

I think for people who have followed the manga weekly for many years, they've totally lost track of how many of their stupid predictions/criticisms ended up being wrong. They lose sight of just what kinda a % they are rocking when it comes to predictions. Many people are probably somewhere around 0%.

[pseudo citrus]

"it's 100% a Kirin"

[modest skiff]

Since I know some of those people will read this message, I'd like to use the Kirin arrogance as a perfect example of what you are describing: People just blab out ignorant crap and SOMEHOW have made it this long without realizing Oda is a genius

[tired osprey]

ehhh, its 100% byakko was way worse.

[pseudo citrus]

I thought it was probably byakko too, tbf

[proud tree]

Does CP0 know and care about Robin? Why dont they kill her now in the battle?

[modest skiff]

I'd like to also point out how much evidence people cited as Byakko being guaranteed as well. We can build a story so big that we start to believe it, despite being completely and total dog shit. There were a lot of mythological reasons for it to be a Byakko or Kirin, I guess? But apparently that meant nothing. Something to keep in mind when writing theories by citing mythology

[bitter kraken]

It looks like CPO wants to keep their existence in wano secret, going after robin isn’t a guarantee win and would expose them

[pseudo citrus]

the mythological choice for byakko was because it opposes kaido's power... but oda went for a protector spirit, so that the applicability isn't just to kaido alone

[opaque rain]

https://youtu.be/qYzqDJBeI9Q

[bitter kraken]

Wtf was that

[sand sail]

This channel is strictly for serious theories

No-meme zone

[quasi roost]

sorry

[modest skiff]

In general, I recommend searching for links before posting them. In this instance, we have discussed the theory you linked about 900 times so far

[opaque rain]

I was late to the party

[radiant geyser]

so was I lol

can discuss in dms if you like

[broken holly]

thoughts?

[proud tree]

CP0 did not try to hide their presence at Dressrosa. They showed up there to declare that Doflamingo is still a Warlord. But they did not take action against Luffy/ Robin(!) or any other Straw hat there. Theory: They saw Doflamingo as the greater threat then Luffy, letting Luffy defeat him without interfering.

[manic relic]

Maybe Luffys awakening will be the Monkey King?

[proud tree]

it is possible .. but hard to proof before we see it happen ... since the theory is based on the WG deceiving everyone

[manic relic]

And what if the pheasant is Aokiji and not Marco? Because Marco is a phoenix. And Aokiji is known as the blue pheasant. And Aokiji was researching on Kaido (Punk Hazard)

[grizzled fog]

They left dressrosa before the battle started iirc. There wasn’t much reason to stay when doffy seemed to be well in control

[modest skiff]

CP0 in Dressrosa doesn’t make sense and is a big question mark. Their behavior doesn’t really make sense. Their time is very valuable. IMO it is indeterminate their core reason for being in Dressrosa. But I think we might learn what they were up to in the current arc

[proud tree]

yeah ... maybe they thought protecting him makes no sense since Doflamingo should be strong enough to defend himself .. but did we see them leave Dressrosa?

[peak cape]

CP0 honestly just seem like a bunch of idiots.

[grizzled fog]

We didn’t see them leave, but there’s no reason to believe they stayed. And why were they? They made the announcement, which is what they came there to do. And there was no indication that they remained, especially during the chaos of the birdcage and such. I don’t think there’s a super deep reason behind it.

[sand sail]

They didn't remain, they left and came back for the Revolutionaries

Sabo comments on it when he's talking with the crew after the arc

[grizzled fog]

Ah

[opaque rain]

People are downplaying the theory alot but when u sum it all together and then u get merry saying those specific words, that's very crucial

I don't think it's the one piece under enies lobby but something just as important might be down there 🤔

[scenic thicket]

wano was being written in by thriller bark too

[ember trench]

[opaque rain]

[weary cliff]

Don't forget the context behind the Merry saying that

[queen arrow]

Merry didn't say "look down" randomly, she was calling them to her, and she was in a position below them

[ember trench]

Merry literally saying it wished it could have completed the journey with them like it wanted to...

OP theorists think they’re gigabrains when they haven’t even read the story it seems

[queen arrow]

context is everything

Usopp looks down and sees the Merry, which came to rescue them

extrapolating her saying that to anything else is ridiculous

[harsh river]

the ohara theory is kinda deconfirmed

[peak cape]

Look down

[harsh river]

the original theory was made before the statement of oda saying nobody has guessed the ending

[peak cape]

[opaque rain]

What if someone did guess it right but it's just not popular or well know

[pseudo citrus]

"nobody guessed makami" but when you look back, a few people did have it, but it never caught on

so that could totally be the case

[tired osprey]

ive seen wolf and okami a few times, but thats not really what yamato's df is.

[sand sail]

People guessed wolf based things, not Makami specifically, it seems to be less known. I saw mostly some video game gods that weren't part of actual myths, lol

As for the theory about Done Piece, it's big and it draws on a lot of elements, but the conclusion doesn't hold up very well. Just the whole D-One part makes it mostly fall apart for me. I'm sure Laugh Tale will be something like an island at the bottom of the sea, or some lost world somewhere, that seemed like it was the closest answer when we found out it wasn't somewhere you could just sail to

But if it were under Enies Lobby, most of the world would probably know it, and the World Government would have the place 100% impregnable

[upbeat mist]

am i dumb or does this just totally ignore luffy being bouncy and stretchy? like it's an interesting connection sure, but the only time it mentions anything about rubber is the jaw

[weary cliff]

This point especially dismantles the whole thing. In the video, the guy talks up Enies Lobby as one of the most guarded Marine strongholds, when it simply wasn't. Of the 3 connected by the whirlpool, it was easily the least defended

[modest skiff]

Any Yonko could have walked into Enies lobby and left nothing but rubble. Kaido could have solo'd enies lobby. Agreed with the points regarding the theory being not ideal

[pseudo citrus]

this guy guessed Makami in February https://twitter.com/osplover/status/1363784903020580864?s=20

osplover (@osplover)

@TakashiOowada @YouTube タカシさん、今日も動画最高です！
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Twitter · Feb 22, 2021, 9:37 AM

[weak flicker]

And wouldn’t that also imply Garp would know about the One Piece’s location? Okay, I’m sure that knowledge would have certain levels of clearance, but by that logic Aokiji probably knew and he’s currently working with BB.

[opaque rain]

This is said alot but is that because it was pre ts and in order for the story to progress the enemy's strength had to be weaker? I think it fits the same problem as with crocodile

[modest skiff]

Nah, I don't buy that. Oda is a much better writer than that. Maybe for a shit-tier story but not one piece

Crocodile is an arrogant buffoon who was patting himself on the back too much for being a noob stomper pirate. His aspirations were high and he didn't do what was necessary to reach that.

When a theory relies on Oda being a truly terrible writer, and we've seen over a thousand chapters indicating the opposite, the theory is poor. The fact that the actual content of the ohara theory is also very poor only makes matters worse

As I have said before "done piece" and "2D is a moon" are each individually disqualifying

Youtubers have an incentive to try to think of unique theories. They are content creators and they make money by having theories that appear plausible. View these theories through the lens of them wanting you to watch and them having a financial incentive

[weary cliff]

It is true that the scope of the story did exceed Oda's earlier expectations. There are some inconsistencies that can't be easily rectified, mostly with character strength. Oda is just talented to incorporate these earlier story points into the world and keeping building in a way that makes it all feel consistent

[modest skiff]

You're right and I should have been more clear. It is totally normal for a story to evolve over the course of it being written. How a writer responds to a sudden epiphany is directly correlated with the quality of the end result. In Oda's case, haki is essentially the only logical inconsistency in my eyes. There are a few situations where we need to either say a character was a complete moron or the story simply evolved. I would also say haki is an example of Oda's epiphany-induced-agility when it comes to story telling. He ended up making haki a very good thing and I'd say the story strongly benefited. Oda was writing himself into a corner with the way logias functioned and it was truly going to be terrible. He knew that and he adapted.

As it pertains to the ohara theory, Oda would have needed to have done a very bad job at adapting to epiphanies in order for the theory to be reasonable or probable.

[weary cliff]

100% agree

[bitter kraken]

Yeah I agree fuck all that

[opaque rain]

I wouldnt paint YouTubers as such as you would be saying the same thing about oda. If the product is good people will consume it. Wouldn't you agree enies lobby was unguarded? I'm not saying oda is a bad writer at all but I was given the impression enies lobby was this super high security facility so when Luffy took it over without haki and taking down lucci, I would count that as a inconsistency

[modest skiff]

Oda isn't arguing in favor of theories, he is creating a story. Since he isn't making an argument by writing One Piece, the situations are distinct. I am saying a youtuber's argument is necessarily harmed by the fact that uniqueness rather than probability is the driving factor in their revenue generation.

Enies lobby was still very guarded all things considered. Look at the force it took to do all that the straw hats did. Not a common occurrence. And ultimately they escaped, its not like they were able to fortify a position at enies lobby. Enies lobby was a long set of miracles and a good idea to leave when they did.

[bitter kraken]

The straw hats were a weak crew back then, they couldn’t do anything but run from kizaru but now they’ll happily take him on I think. Enies lobby just looks weak now because the story has evolved and things that have already happened seen weak compared to the feats the straw hats are now doing

[quartz dagger]

Theory: the one piece is an all you can eat meat buffet with a sign that says pirate kings eat for free.

[dusky acorn]

And I suppose this is meant to coincide with the belief that Luffy and Roger's secret dreams are/were to have a gargantuan party?

Seems a bit too coincidental for my liking right now, but maybe getting more context on Joyboy could help that kind of prize feel more befitting to be there

[pine hemlock]

Theory:Vivi rejoins the straw hats after Wano with the help of the Grand fleet

[upbeat mist]

I know a lot of people already believe that, as well as her getting the paw paw fruit around the same time to complete the counting

[tidal tapir]

I forgot, but I had this theory 2 years ago while re-reading One Piece ||https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/abg5fz/another_theory_about_zoros_eye/||||

[grizzled fog]

So you’re saying he uses that to train his coc in some bizarre way?

[tidal tapir]

We still don't know if ||the eye actually has anything to do with his CoC, but I just thought that Rayleigh has the scar too, and the way he described CoC might have been the reason he has a scar on his eye||

[grizzled fog]

Zoro doesn’t know he has coc

[tidal tapir]

He might not know he has it, and it went out of control during his training and Mihawk had to scar his eye to stop it..

The anime also has a scene that he used his CoC and his closed eye sparked like the other times Rayleigh, Shanks and Luffy used theirs in the episode last week I think.

Luffy had to train in isolation to control it since it has an effect on innocent bystanders if not controlled properly iirc.

[grizzled fog]

The anime episode is irrelevant. But how exactly do you think something like that could happen with zoro knowing he has coc lol? Some weird thing happens to him for some reason and Mihawk cuts him in the eye (also no link between eyes and coc), and somehow zoro isn’t told he has coc? How is that supposed to work. Does zoro think Mihawk just attacked him for no reason?

Luffy trained in isolation because Ruskaina was the perfect envionrment for him, a harsh environment with strong animals to fight. And he’s a wanted man lol, he wouldn’t train around civilians anyway

[warm narwhal]

The reason why they showed Zoro with a little bit of coc, because they don’t want it to come off unexpectedly when he officially use it against Kaido

People want to act like he’s already a master

At this point he can only use it when he is at his very lowest

[visual merlin]

"can only use it when he is at his very lowest"

uses it casually and proficiently on fodder who are no threat to him while he's perfectly healthy

[pure raven]

Can a blind person use coc?

[visual merlin]

no reason why they can't

[tidal tapir]

I thought about this theory while I came across this panel in a re-read:

[pure raven]

Cool
A blind person
Knocking all the enemies

Would love to see such a person at elbaf

[warm narwhal]

Believe the anime is Canon.

[tidal tapir]

Might be why Rayleigh had him train in isolation, as well as the strong animals in Ruskaina.

[grizzled fog]

Um regardless of where he trained he wouldn’t be around civilians anyway

[pure raven]

He trained in isolation cause of better concentration and no outside interferance

[tidal tapir]

Also everytime someone in the manga actively uses the CoC, there is always an emphasis on one of their eye, so I thought of Zoro.

[pure raven]

No thats just visual effect for us to know abd eye is one of the intimidating factor

And shows a persons will

[tidal tapir]

Regardless, the mystery in his eye scar I think will be revealed before the end of Wano. Crossing my fingers that it has to do with his newly(?) discovered CoC.

And I'm now reminded that the timeskip was 10 years ago.....

[fervent eagle]

[pure raven]

hey is anyone online to hear because I think i have a theory for sun god nika

[pure raven]

just post it, people will read it eventually

ohh ohk

if anyone remember the chapter ( i forgot) where who's who said that they called him sun god nika

[reef nest]

1018?

[pure raven]

In anime episode 187

[pure raven]

Yeah

I have one photo however can't send it here

[reef nest]

Why..?

[pure raven]

In that does anyone remember calgara's daughter?

She said I am about to welcome by the sun god (clearly in sub)

And also in that in order to live they give lives of one person specifically women to live for the village when norland first see this he immediately jump to rescue her

hear me out ok?

[upper plank]

Spoiler Alert: Gaimon is the One Piece

[pure raven]

it can be a coincidence that village thought was like the dragon was sun god however deep down i believe the sun god nika is definetly NORLAND

i just like to hear people' thoughts on this

[honestly tbh i didn't sleep well at night still i am unable to see[

[copper frost]

There are different mentions of the sun god in the story, Nika doesn't seem to be related to that legend on Jaya since he's a slave legend

[pure raven]

yeah sun god nika as we see when who's who mentioned it looked a lot like norland as he was also strongest man 400 years ago and also a laughable person

[neon shoal]

Does anyone else believe this theory? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYzqDJBeI9Q&t=1360s

[pure raven]

brooo i have seen this video

bottom? am i right?

[neon shoal]

Yup

[pure raven]

this video not only helped me with this theory however if this was true oda would definetely change the one piece in manga

[grizzled fog]

He definitely wouldn’t

[pure raven]

he had said right those who spoil the one piece last chapter he will change the ending [in an interview)

[grizzled fog]

Do you have a source for that? It gets thrown around a lot and its pretty dumb to change an ending you’ve planned for years like that lol

[pure raven]

i have heard this from a friend of mine who is starting to watch one piece

[grizzled fog]

Yea people say it all the time because they heard it from other people. There’s never ever a source

[pure raven]

however he is the creator of one piece if he does this we can immediately spoil the another😁

[neon shoal]

I kinda half believe that theory though i dont think laugh tale is at bittom of “that”

[pure raven]

yeah some say enies lobby at the bottom is one piece [in that video]

[neon shoal]

I really believe laugh tale is at some unknown area that no one knows about though

[pure raven]

and our protangonist though he will find it or you know he will just say i had become kaizokuni so i dont need the treasure

[neon shoal]

But the theory that laugh tale is at the bottom pf an ocean is interesting it would make sense why no one is able to find it

[pure raven]

and roger execution it is clearly a sign that oda had given us the answer from the start and yet we were delusioned by his foreshadowing

[neon shoal]

Yup exactly

[pure raven]

i thought you are going to say someting big

[neon shoal]

I was but i stop

[oak mural]

that thoery is crack

done piece ?dennies lobby?

[pure raven]

uhh ohk thanks howeve for listening

[plain shell]

Ennies Lobby theory is good, but im pretty sure its implied that Raftel is somewhere BEYOND Lodestar island

[neon shoal]

Actually think ill say what I plan to put

I thought the final island was named raftel which gradually the final island name was really laugh tale. Why did kne piece change final island name from raftel to laugh tale? But turns out one piece was saying it correctly from start. In jap version laugh tale sound like “raftel” which caused confusion to english reader. It would have been more epic if eng version renamed raftel to laugh tale

I’ll give few references

[pure raven]

yeah mate

[neon shoal]

Wait did you know from the start

[pure raven]

the laught tale thing?

[neon shoal]

Yeah

[pure raven]

yeah i think

because in japanese they say a lot like other thing

[neon shoal]

Damn

It literally confused me
Why did one piece change raftel to laugh tale
I was thinking why

[pure raven]

hhey mate i am coming in 10 min we will discuss it ok?

ohh same here

[latent oar]

Where did you get the info that last island was Raftel tho

Apparently Laugh Tale smh has the same pronunciation as Raftel, so we could missunderstand at first

[pure raven]

it wasn't changed, it just has a different way to be read since r's and l's in japanese are the same thing
ラフテル
"rafuteru"
flip the first r to have the l and you get
"lafuteru"

[neon shoal]

Yeah i know now why

it just in offical one piece manga spelled raftel instead laugh tale

That part confused me

[pure raven]

yeah that part can be confusing, from the few months of japanese i remember, loan words are typically written in katakana (a writing system to show foreign words specifically) but oda chose to refer to "laugh tale" in hiragana which led to a lot of confusion on what the meaning was, raftel was a decent translation with the knowledge that was given

oh wait ignore that, i believe it was katakana

[neon shoal]

Heh oda tricked his readers wonderfully

[delicate badger]

For the people that have seen this video: https://youtu.be/qYzqDJBeI9Q I've another thing that will backup this theory! When The Going Merry returned to "safe" the crew he said: Look bellow! He meant look at the bottom of the sea and so his last goal was to help Luffy and the crew find the One Piece!

[queen arrow]

@dense wing

[pure raven]

@neon shoal hey

I know the pronunciation is a bit different from english however i surely believe that oda has something up on his sleeve

[neon shoal]

I know

[pure raven]

Yeah that's why

[neon shoal]

Why what

[dry dirge]

the highest trending One Piece theory atm. I hope Oda has something even crazier prepared and screw his fans, in the best way

[neon shoal]

Better than hajime isayama trolling

[pure raven]

Nothing mate i was thinking something however i forgot😅

[autumn igloo]

With this theory, adding D to the start of One piece is supposed to be a joke, right? I've seen the video a couple of times and I really can't tell

[robust sky]

"was the reason zoro is always lost because of the sword he got from loguetown?"
the sword always leads it bearer to its death, that is why zoro keep losing the way to avoid death?

was this theory already in?

[dusky acorn]

If you're asking about this already having been theorised before, then yes it has

But it's incorrect. The nature of Sandai Kitetsu's curse isn't about misdirecting its user. The gruesome death part is allegedly right though

Zoro already had a bad sense of direction before ever acquiring the sword. We could see that in Syrup Village, he was having trouble finding Kaya and the others in the forest, even with Usopp helping him

[ancient vault]

[dusky acorn]

In fact, the reason he never went back to Shimotsuki Village is because he got lost

[robust sky]

got it thanks hahahahaa

[robust sky]

Who would eat the mera mera no mi if luffy was able to win it?
Who would be the best candidate for the fruit in luffy crew?

[outer locust]

Sanji ❌
Franky
Nami ❌
Usopp
Zoro ❌
Jinbe ❌

Either Usopp or franky

[robust sky]

i though franky don't to lose his swimming ability?

[outer locust]

Oh so I guess Usopp then

[robust sky]

hahahaha

[outer locust]

Orrrr Sanji

[robust sky]

damn usopp being op hahahaha
can't imagine hahaha

[outer locust]

He would be great with that fruit cause he already has fire attacks

[robust sky]

yeah i was thinking about that too

[robust sky]

yeah

[ancient vault]

Usopp is a great swimmer and doesnt wanna lose his swimming ability either. Noone would really

[robust sky]

yeah figured hahahaha
but just guessing tho if sabo was not there

[dusky acorn]

Sanji, although not highly probable, would make the most sense for that hypothetical. He's the one Straw Hat whose actively shown an interest in devil fruits, outside the ones who already have them. He was intrigued enough to give the devil fruit encyclopedia a read in the first place, and then set an underlying goal for the clear clear fruit if it ever came his way

[robust sky]

yeah, could be it hhahah

[tacit veldt]

Luffy did offer It to Franky, who refused. So i think Usopp would be the only candidate

[robust sky]

yeah, but it could be sanji hahaha

[long rose]

did oda really confirm this

[devout frost]

a year ago

[cloud harness]

Yes

[devout frost]

i think he claimed not one piece but ani-manga as a whole

[jagged elbow]

I just wanted to say do y’all think it’s important fact that luffy was a good swimmer before eating his devil fruit

[lapis spruce]

If he knows how to hold his breath in the water that would be great and reduce his weakness to water

[past river]

Luffy couldn't swim before eating his devil fruit

he gets made fun for it by shanks in chapter 1

[lapis spruce]

Shanks said to him you cant be a pirate because you can swim

[past river]

No, that's not what he said

that doesn't even make sense

why wouldn't he be able to become a pirate if he can swim

that's a good thing, being able to swim when at sea is a positive

he wasn't able to swim and that's why shanks ridiculed his dream of becoming a pirate

[nova light]

That's what he said mate, re read it

[tired osprey]

The majority of the most successful pirates cant swim

[pastel summit]

raws if you don't trust early viz scans, though I'm pretty sure this translation is accurate.

mostly accurate.

[muted ember]

Shanks projecting, because he can't swim

or maybe he's mad that he can, but nobody else can

[runic osprey]

I hope the straw hat grand fleet will show up in wano

[oak mural]

no use for them

the samurai are already winning and that is without their leaders being present

[tired osprey]

Love these guys

[tired osprey]

Now when I think of it, wish we had a female captain in the fleet

[runic osprey]

Yea i know they dont need necessary need them but i just like their personalities

But im 100% sure they will be there once the throne wars start

[tired osprey]

Rating the GF captains:

1. Bartolomeo
2. Cavendish
3. Sai
4. Leo
5. Ideo
6. Oorlumbus
7. Hajrudin

Kind of funny half the crew dont even know about luffys grand fleet lmao

Which group do you like more, grand fleet or the red scabbards? Hard question

I think i like the grand fleet more tbh

[runic osprey]

Grandfleet 100%

[tired osprey]

Oh, didnt notice I was in manga-theories, thought i was in also-manga

[runic osprey]

They are strong af
And they are funny af

[tired osprey]

Would be nice if the GF showed up at the end to protect Wano from any other forces while the raid heroes recovers a few weeks from the battle

[dark palm]

Ideo and Leo over Orlumbus and Hajrudin...

[tired osprey]

Ideo, Leo and Oorlumbus was hard to rank, but I need more of hajrudin before ranking him higher, so far I think his crew is even more compelling than him

[harsh niche]

Straw Hat Grand Fleet literally useless, everything in the New World outclasses them by this point, am I wrong?

[past river]

it isn't

this is the official japanese

they call luffy カナヅチ which means a person that can't swim

if you weren't able to become a pirate if you can swim

then what the fuck is shanks doing

that man can swim

idk if you forgot

[plain shell]

Always found it kind of forced that they all just "decided" to become Luffy's underlings

[ancient vault]

Luffy literally saved them from death. They didnt "just" decide

[plain shell]

I can see Barto, Leo, Sai, and Hajrudin becoming a part of the fleet

but the rest of them? kind of weird for me

They didn't seem like the type to instantly want to become Luffy's underlings

I guess it's just Bartolomeo's convincing skills lmao

[shadow pollen]

am i allowed to share a vid?

[past river]

if it is relevant to the channel

inb4 you post the ohara video

[harsh niche]

yeah thats what i thought

[fathom matrix]

I'm sure Onigeshima has some cola

It would be funny if there are some pleasures, waiter, or gifters that are non alcoholics, and when Franky finds them he says "THIS IS A PARTY, AND YOU DON'T DRINK?" but they say "aren't YOU the one looking for cola to fuel yourself?" and he goes "...ok fair enough, NOW HAND IT OVER!"

[lost spoke]

Does Jinbe or Oda give us anymore evidence beyond what Jinbe says in 977 about why he was late? I think I remember a cover story or something with the Sunpirates. I just wanna stop feeling like Big Mom stole his life force and this is his last fight.

[nimble wagon]

did you guys saw this theory?

[visual merlin]

is it gonna be the Ohara theory

[nimble wagon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYzqDJBeI9Q&t=103s

[visual merlin]

yep

[nimble wagon]

yes

[visual merlin]

I personally haven't seen it since Im not interested in theory videos, but many people have

[sturdy hound]

[nimble wagon]

what do you guys think about it? seems legit tho

[obtuse gazelle]

[pure raven]

Same 💯

[oak mural]

can we just auto delete the vid link ,every 30 mins someones posts it and says this vid spoils one piece

[pure raven]

Gotta agree or altogether mute ban this link if possible

[lost spoke]

I havent finished watching his thoery so I cant speak much on it but I do know he talks about Shandoria, the Sun and the Moon which I answer in my Fifth Sun theory. You can read it on this channel, its pin to the top. I even reference Giolla's art.

[robust sky]

was the golden flash from kidds eye same with how luffy make the baboon from the coast to stay calm or some shit?

Luffy eyes flash golden there

It was when luffy first landed in wano

[lost spoke]

The Ancient Kingdom was likely a melting pot of cultures that held no slaves and believed in total freedom regardless of race. Toki dispite being from Wano had never been to Wano. She likely lived in the Ancient Kingdom for sometime either just as a citizen or a delegate of Wano. Most Ancient Kingdom allies are of various races like giants, fishman and mink and keep isolated for a yet to be clear reason (The Aztec's last message kinda sheds a little light on this though).

[bitter kraken]

I think the theory is bs tbh

[oblique onyx]

I like the theory, its obvious there was a lot of work put into it, but I don’t think its correct. It’s reaching too hard.

[pine delta]

im almost convinced now that the WG (or maybe humans in general) are aliens

[lost spoke]

I agree, I think its fun and I actually like the idea of Shandoria being the kingdom but the One Piece being somewhere else (whether it used to be part of Shandoria or not) He mentioned Rodger laughing because he had already been there but I can promise you 100% its because he saw Joyboy's fruits of labor and his journey. Oda makes that really clear in Jaya with Cricket

Joyboy has likely gather many poneglifs there

[weary cliff]

These are about my thoughts. Although I'm even more skeptical than this guy because apparently some of the word play is less compelling than Ohara would have us think. https://youtu.be/ihGJGZ6bSyQ

[modest skiff]

I’m so sad this video exists. It just means the O’Hara video will end up posted more times from more people knowing about it

[weary cliff]

This is the kind of response there needed to be for Ohara's vid. All the rest are just trying to jump on the hype train

[modest skiff]

I’m sad there is a hype train to speak of

[light onyx]

What can counter the quake quake fruit ?

[lost spoke]

Lets go back to the Youtube days of video responses

I'm gathering manga panels around Jimbe and the more I read the more im convinced he is a dead man walking

[tiny lily]

The rubber rubber fruit?

[light onyx]

What if luffy awakens his devil fruit to make his surroundings rubber

That would make the quake quake fruit ineffective right ?

[runic osprey]

I could possibly counter it but dont forget that black beard has the fruit now and his yami yami no mi can disable df powers

[granite talon]

could it be that momonosuke's fruit is actually overpowered somehow (Hard to believe vegapunk failed specially since momo did transform)

[harsh niche]

Yes

[modest skiff]

Until we know what Vegapunk was trying to do, we don’t know what failure meant in that context

[granite talon]

What i think is that he tried replicating kaido's fruit and promised it to the government but he made it more powerful than he wanted so he lied that it was a failure

like he did not want shinokuni too

[balmy leaf]

Agreed, dude talks about dying and sacrificing himself a lot

[light onyx]

Ohh

[jagged lodge]

i need them spoilers

[modest skiff]

Wrong channel

[jagged lodge]

well they're not out

[modest skiff]

This channel is for discussion of theories. Not for “gimme spoilers xD”

[grand knoll]

uh

[jagged lodge]

i have a theory that spoileres will be out before tomorrow? discuss

[grand knoll]

lol

[modest skiff]

Just FYI once the moderators notice, this will be deleted because this channel is only for serious discussion. There are other non serious channels such as #manga so there’s really no reason for you to gunk up this channel

[visual merlin]

@jagged lodge I recommend getting the Spoiler updates roles from #old-role-info so you get pinged when they are out

Now lets get past that

[lost spoke]

Looking over this, Oda cramps down our throat that you can't mess with a Yonko without consequences. Aladdin says "Any member who joins me on this mission must be prepared for the consequences" Jinbe joins them and promises Luffy "He will fulfill his duty and return alive." Luffy tells him "Don't let even death stop you" which is also the title of the chapter. A song begins to open, some of the lyrics are "Take your candy coming in... and leave by execution. The fun is finding out who wins at the grand resolution." (I think at the end of Wano we'll learn of Jimbe's reduced life span which is a good mechanic to push us into Elbaf to retrieve it or avenge him). Jinbe speaks to Aladin who is upset that he doesnt have faith in him, Jinbe response "I'm making sure we all survive so you can send me off!" (We do know the Sun Pirates survive and Jimbe has a send off with them). Song continues, "The first step is to ask about the nature of its price" (Jinbe is exclusively featured in this panel). The song continues for a bit and aks "Will it be years off your life? or your life itself?" (We know Jinbe didn't give his life up and Soul Pocus normally wouldnt work against him but if its for another's sake Jinbe would do it, leave a short amount of time, return to the Straw Hats and help save Wano) Oda almost never kills important characters unless its a sacrifice. This would have great meaning to his mentality during Wano, a dead man walking who didnt let even death stop him from keeping his word. Also in Chapter 863 we see Jinbe agree to this exact bargain.

[balmy leaf]

Makes sense, but wouldn't Big Mom have mentioned something about this back when she met Jinbe on Onigashima? If memory serves she just said that she was going to kill him.

My reasons for why I think he might die is tied to how long it took him to join the crew in the first place. It just seems really strange for there to be 10 years of build up for him joining when there doesn't really seem to be much of a reason for it. Jinbe could have just joined at the end of Fishman Island and the story wouldn't really need to be changed that much. Instead he's gone from Punk Hazard until WCI and then he sails with them for half of WCI and then stays behind for another 80 chapters just so he can take out a random ship at the start of the raid. I could understand it if WCI was about getting Jinbe away from Big Mom, much like Nami and Arlong Park, but instead it was a relatively short subplot that got wrapped up with no significant payoff yet.

[lost spoke]

Let me confirm a few things before I give a proper response regarding Big Mom but yes his delay is what made me go back a look because they EVEN stopped the sake toast prior to which is killing me... and Jinbe

[light onyx]

Imagine the one piece is the power of friendship lmao

[balmy leaf]

Absolutely, there are other reasons as well.

He's the only straw hat that has a dream that doesn't require his involvement, perfectly set up for the crew to inherit that will if he were to die.
We are in an arc where the main villain is known for breaking people's spirit, Luffy has had his spirit broken once before and Jinbe was the one to bring him back, thematically it would work if Jinbe was then used to break Luffy's spirit again.

[lost spoke]

mirroring Marineford/Wano Ace's Death/Jinbe Death. Honestly its beautiful and for any of you Carrot or Yamato people, here's your job opening

[balmy leaf]

Yep, he is pretty closely tied to Ace if you think about it, water/fire, calm/hotheaded, they were in the same jail cell, they have fought against each other, they both love Whitebeard, Jinbe in some ways takes on a big brother role to Luffy.

[lost spoke]

In chapter 989 Jimbe and Big Mom have a panel where they talk to each other has Big Mom is being rolled out lol. Big Mom: "How dare you, Jimbe!!! I'll kill you too, for what you did to my fleet!!" Jimbe: "I welcome the attempt!!" So i think the outcome is still the same because there is just too much foreshadowing (Jimbe even uses his first panel back to reaffirm he kept his promise and returned alive) The Sun Pirates may have damaged Big Momo's ships on the initial encounter or even fought for a bit before Jimbe resorted to Soul Pocus. Not sure but if she did take his soul i wanna know what she used it on.

[balmy leaf]

Sounds about right, there is just no way that this was the conclusion to the cliffhanger from the end of WCI, at some point we have to pick up that thread again.

[lost spoke]

Agreed, do you recall if Brook has the ability to force the souls out of Homies?

[balmy leaf]

I don't think he does. Regardless, if Jinbe's soul gets taken, I don't think the solution would be to have Brook deal with it, it would probably be solved by beating Big Mom or something.

[gray lily]

[lost spoke]

The interesting thing about Big Mom as a villain is her goals and the Ancient Kingdom's goals seem to have been the same. "A world where all races of the globe are treated with normality" (Also thats part of a song in chapter 900 which ends with "but if you leave you'll have to face your imminent mortality") Then she has her character flaws yet she also seemed to save Kaido when he was abandoned (not confirmed but based off of a chapter) and her Olin personality is innocent a nice, albeit still dangerous. Idk if Oda is going to turn her full villain or swing her into an ally. If he makes her an ally maybe Jinbe gets his life back but if he dies prior to that I dont think Oda can redeem her to Luffy.

[balmy leaf]

That's true, it depends on if Oda actually wants to redeem her though. Luffy hates Crocodile but he was still willing to work with him in Impel Down, it could just be something along those lines. I personally hope she doesn't turn into an ally but the Olin-thing does set it up if that were to happen.

[lost spoke]

Agreed, ok so I went back and read chapter 848 and watched Episode 814. Brook does have the power to remove the souls from homies. He fights the chess pieces and in the manga its not as clear (you see wisps running away but it could be part of Brook's soul king form) in the anime it's MUCH clearer, he removes the human souls contained in the pieces. I can add a bit of proof to this if you want but souls in One Piece can exist outside the body and wander until called or pushed into something (I have a theory that devil fruits are devils but souls) regardless, I think Oda set up a mechanic to forcefully take back Jimbe or another's soul from Big Mom without having to knock her out (which i dont think works) or befriend/redeem her.

He cannot however do this to homies containing Big Mom's soul. I think it will work similar to the Moria's fruit if Oda does end up going that route. This opens a door for Jimbe to survive if the Strawhats get his soul out of whatever she put it in.

[pure raven]

World Govt Flag Theory:
The 4 outer circles are the 4 Red Poneglyphs. The lines connecting the poneglyphs intersect at the inner circle which is the island - "Laugh Tale".

[balmy leaf]

I see, I just think it would be strange narratively speaking for Brook to be the key to this, he's not that closely tied to Jinbe and big moments like this tend to fall to Luffy or at least one of the East Blue 5. Luffy and Nami are honestly the only straw hats with the connection to both Jinbe and Big Mom, so it would probably fall to one of them with Brook as a potential support. Regardless, I think if Oda were to go down the road of Jinbe's death, it would feel more fitting for Jinbe to die from sacrificing himself for Luffy's sake as that would tie into his promise to Ace and fit his self sacrificing character.

[weary cliff]

This would be an amazing plot for Jinbei. I have to wonder if there's time left in the series to give BM that much more focus, but you're right that it could be folded into Elbaf

[modest skiff]

IMO BM has tons of story left in her

I don’t think Wano is anywhere close to the end of BM

[weary cliff]

She has wicked potential. It's just post wano has so much to wrap up before the conclusion and not much time

[modest skiff]

The time consideration is where our estimations diverge. I don’t think it’s even slightly possible Oda cuts his story short after all this time. If the story needs more, he will add more. He won’t neglect a character like BM due to some previous estimation

[tawdry bramble]

I’ve always suggested that Kaidou is Luffy’s first Yonkou take down and he does so via a group and Big Mom is his first solo Yonkou take down.

[lost spoke]

If Brook is involved its only as a support to Luffy. i really want Oda to pull the trigger on this one though. There are some really cool moments in One Piece you can go back to once the arc is complete and see a whole new character, understanding what they went through. (Zoro's Thrillerbark scene is a short condensed version of that, which you dont have the reread to enjoy)

[weary cliff]

Thematically, it also feels right to drop the classic yonkou here. We're moving into a totally new era

[tawdry bramble]

Luffy needs to beat Big Mom to start his superiority to Roger.

[modest skiff]

I think Wano will be the end of Yonkos as an entirely conflicted faction. I still think BM and Kaido will end up being “non-enemies” at the end of Wano. Not allies but not military enemies

[sand sail]

If they're not allies, they're military enemies by default in their position

Unless they just give up being pirates entirely, the best they'd end up having is maybe a ceasefire with both of them half dead

[modest skiff]

I don't think it will be that simple. I think there is a core connection that is still able to be formed. The perspective you are describing makes sense in a modern context but I am saying I think the relationships and characters develop such that there is a lot more nuance necessary than enemy and not enemy

[balmy leaf]

I hope it happens as well, Jinbe dying or at least having a significant storyline with Big Mom here would at least justify why we spent so much time on getting him to join the crew. It would be tragic but it could be some really effective storytelling. One of the main reasons why Ace's death hit as hard as it did was that we spent so much time on the mission to save him.

[sand sail]

Well, there was always nuance to it, but they always came down to enemy because they're all in the running for the same thing. The problem is they can't be anything but enemies unless they just full on give up their goals, since their goals run directly opposed to one another. They both want to be the Pirate King, and they've both actually accepted they'd betray the other before the partnership even formed

[modest skiff]

I'm not convinced Kaido or BM want to be pirate king as an end, rather a means. I think we have been given enough hints regarding both BM and Kaido to entertain the possibility that they end up thinking Luffy is able to accomplish what they both want

[scenic thicket]

luffy spending all his time training to make sure his crew doesn’t die just for them to die

[modest skiff]

@lost spoke I agree with your basic premise that Jinbe made a deal such that his life is reduced or that he in some way has a debt to BM that Luffy will consider untenable. The only complication I foresee is that Jinbe is very wise and he may choose not to tell Luffy about his deal until it is too late. But it is also possible that Luffy smells something is off and asks Jinbe for details. I am not convinced Jinbe would lie to Luffy if directly asked. So I am unsure how things go from there, but I do agree Jinbe ended up making some other type of deal rather than just escaping

[sand sail]

I honestly can't overstate how much that's never even been a possibility to me, neither seem to have any kind of goal that Luffy could possibly fulfill on their behalf. Nor do either of them really seem to even want that to be a thing

Being the Pirate King isn't an end, but it is the biggest goal in the world right now, and they both want to get it. Luffy's probably not going to be any kind of deterrent in any way besides full on causing their defeats, I just can't see either being swayed like that. He's also never really done that before for anyone who wasn't a friend, so they shouldn't really fall under a category where it's a possibility for him to stick his neck out that way

[modest skiff]

Makes sense, people will take different things from the same panel. I choose to read BM's idealism and Kaido's weirdness around Joyboy/Wano/jumping off a cloud as a hint that they are motivated by something deeper than domination and glory. I think its entirely possible that if Kaido and BM end up convinced Luffy will indirectly lead to their (as of yet unknown) goals, they become "non-enemies". Our difference in opinion essentially comes down to me thinking there is a deeper level to their motivations that we haven't been shown yet. I choose to read certain parts of the story as clues, but you may be right that I am over complicating the situation

[pure raven]

Woo

[sand sail]

It's not that there isn't something deeper, it's just that nothing about their characters so far really lead us into that territory of thinking. Big Mom more so than Kaido, since with Kaido we do know that his goals are generally domination or just being the strongest thing around

[modest skiff]

What I am broadly saying is:

it's just that nothing about their characters so far really lead us into that territory of thinking
Is a difference in how we have read the story. You seem a lot more confident in Kaido/BM's goals than I think is appropriate based on our available information, but I see no downside to us seeing the situation differently

[sand sail]

But for example, their current goal is actually creating a world wide war that they dominate. That's at least Kaido's first and foremost goal besides a meaningful death.

Yes there's nothing wrong with adding nuance to them, that's always good for a discussion

It's just with what we know of their goals so far, at the very least for Kaido if not both, Luffy objectively can't be one to fulfill or aid them, or be any kind of benefit

Big Mom, maybe. Her goal is more family oriented, so you never know with that. But Kaido specifically wants an actual war torn planet and domination of the entire sea through conflict and combat, he is entirely opposed to everything Luffy stands for here, so it can't really be a possibility unless he just has a goal that we've never been given

[fading thorn]

how are certain devil fruits made? cuz for example katakuris fruit, it allows his body to become mochi. Does that mean mochi is a naturally occuring substance, or did mochi exist before devil fruits?

[sand sail]

Even when it comes to him dying, it seems based in combat

Mochi existed before devil fruits I'm sure, but we don't know how they're made unfortunately.

[fading thorn]

if the 2nd option is true, then devil fruits had to be man made

[lost spoke]

Just catching up, yea I believe Jimbe wont say a word, he doesnt want Luffy worrying about him but he wont lie either. That's what makes this so great. This entire arc for him has been able honor. He has gone to extreme lengths to do exactly what he said he would do. He saved his crew, he returned alive as promised and joined the crew. Then Oda can rip our hearts out by taking him too soon, just like Ace.

[modest skiff]

I'm not necessarily trying to convince you with this, but just letting you know why I see Kaido as open ended: He is often openly bored/frustrated (unsatisfied with the direction of his life, or perhaps lost something, or is waiting for something/someone), has a weird boner for Wano that appears to go beyond their weapons, has some special plan for Yamato, was disappointed Luffy "wasn't joyboy". I fully understand I am a bit over skeptical at times, so maybe I am wrong. I am not trying to convince you here, just letting you know where I am coming from

[modest skiff]

Jinbe dying "early" wouldn't be as heart ripping for me because I would see it as him ultimately accomplishing his goals

[lost spoke]

It makes him Hard Boiled and we all gotta respect that lol

I think the key to Big Mom and Kaido (especially him) is Rocks D. Xebec. I think they learned about the ancient weapons and Joy Boy from him. Big Mom had been collecting ponegliphs before Rodger knew about them. I think they fought over Pluton on Gods Valley where Kaido nearly died and Big Mom saved him.

[sand sail]

Oh no I understand what you mean, and there's always room for it for sure. I'm not saying it's really strictly not a possibility, more so that from what we know it doesn't seem to be something Luffy would really want to have happen if that makes sense. Like for example, the obsession with Wano seems to come with the last 20 years of horror, it's kinda hard to imagine there's something beneath it that Luffy would be willing to say he fulfilled

There was supposed to be a quote on that @modest skiff lol

[modest skiff]

I agree that there is a lot of forgiveness that needs to happen before anything I am saying makes sense. For whatever it is worth, a part of what I have cooked up in my head:

(Vaguely): Momo shows some kind of extreme courage against Orochi. Orochi is about to kill Momo. Kaido noticed Momo's courage and immediately saves his life.

I can think of times where Luffy had one thought going into a situation, the situation changed, Luffy pauses for a moment and then says "Ok so lets do the opposite then!". If the situation is truly different, if someone is ACTUALLY apologetic, if Luffy thinks someone has changed, there is always room for forgiveness, IMO. Luffy's ethics prevent him from being merciless against someone who wants to repent.

More broadly speaking: It just feels like so many pieces are still moving (Onigashima still floating lol) that One Piece has been SO CRAZY in the past that I still see it as "anything can happen", up to and including Kaido saving Momo's life.

Getting back to your point: I think that there is so much that can happen that I do think it is possible Luffy would be satisfied. I can imagine situations where it ends up true and I think OP has been very unpredictable in the past

[sand sail]

In most other cases, I would agree there's a strong possibility of it. Even in a case like Foxy where he ends up taking a crew member, but what Kaido's done to Wano and Luffy's friends...there's just so much to forgive, y'know?

[modest skiff]

I totally get where you're coming from and I think its totally possible Kaido just gets fucking beheaded lol. I feel like I am smelling something else developing. Kaido wanted Momo to be something, Maybe Momo can still be that. I don't know. But just to be clear, I am not saying your predictions are unlikely. I am just saying I feel like I smell something else cooking @sand sail

[runic osprey]

How will kaido fall do you guys think? Will luffy be the one to do it? Luffy and yamato tag team would be destructive

[shell kettle]

I think Luffy

[runic osprey]

I think both luffy and yamato will do it

[shell kettle]

Maybe Katakuri

[modest skiff]

If Kaido dies I hope it is from a fight similar to Oars where everyone is needed. My hope is that Zoro would be the one to land the killing blow. Something along the lines of him "understanding better this time" and then going straight through Kaido would be

[visual merlin]

just luffy

[modest skiff]

I'm honestly skeptical of any mechanism of killing Kaido that doesn't involve a sword. I think its possible just Luffy knocks him out or something. But if we assume he is actually dying I don't think Luffy kills him

[visual merlin]

Luffy will be the one to beat him

someone else can come in and kill him while he's down though

yamato or the scabbards would be great to me

[lost spoke]

Could be CP0 that seizes the oppurtunity

[shell kettle]

I don’t think Kaido will die because One Piece is a young teens manga.

[visual merlin]

Maybe but I highly doubt they'd be the ones to do it

[modest skiff]

CP0 may be able to kill him but I don't buy the idea they manage to kidnap Kaido

[visual merlin]

characters still die lol

[shell kettle]

I don’t think the main characters will murder him

[visual merlin]

Ace WB Pedro Oden

[runic osprey]

People die anyway

But i think he is gonna get knocked down

[visual merlin]

it won't be the strawhats, it can be someone else, not that the strawhats can't kill him either but eh

[runic osprey]

Yea my guess either kid or CP0

[shell kettle]

If Luffy asked Zoro to kill a Nakama, he would do it

[runic osprey]

Kid as a revenge to what they did to his friend killer

CP0 for their own reasons

[runic osprey]

If there is a reason to it otherwise he wont like for example a huge betrayal or something like that

[modest skiff]

Only if it was Usopp during Water7

[runic osprey]

True

[shell kettle]

If Luffy wanted to kill Nami for some reason, if he asked Zoro, he would do it.

[visual merlin]

did you get this from an instagram post

[shell kettle]

😳

[runic osprey]

If zoro agrees with the reason

[shell kettle]

Zoro has never not done something Luffy asked

[visual merlin]

I mean

[runic osprey]

Because he is the captain

[visual merlin]

Water 7

and shit

He's disagreed with luffy and the past and done certain things

he's not gonna kill a crewmember just because luffy says to

[runic osprey]

Yea agreed

[scenic thicket]

i think CP0 was in dressrosa in the beginning to give doffy the flare fruit to bait luffy

[shell kettle]

Theory: At the end of Wano, after Luffy has defeated Kaido and big mom and Yamato has joined his crew, Blackbeard will appear (based on the relation of Blackbeard and the number 3, with Wano being the third Mega Arc and it being in the third saga post Timeskip) where they will reveal Blackbeard got his third devil fruit, being Moria’s Devil fruit (because of how he was wanted and Blackbeard suspiciously wanted to see him), where Blackbeard will bring back Ace, and Luffy will have to fight Zombie Ace, but will lose because he doesn’t want to. This will then lead to Luffy being captured with Sabo and Hancock (because of what Oda said). This will lead to the next arc being similar to Impel Down, and the next Post Timeskip saga will be similar to the Summit War Saga, where Blackbeard will also make Zombie Oden to read the poneglyphs, and Blackbeard will be the first to get the One Piece, so the arc has a sad ending like Marineford.

[modest skiff]

This is not remotely true

[gleaming wren]

bro are you kidding zombie ace

[pure raven]

Are u fr? He has when he was ready to accept ussop back zoro said no

[copper frost]

I don't think that's a serious theory at all

[modest skiff]

I think they are just trolling about zoro killing people, not the theory

[shell kettle]

No I’m not

[pure raven]

The manga has people gettig their hearts stabbed, akainus punch going through aces chest blowing his heart out etc

[lost spoke]

I see the 3 thing a lot and yes its true his design and flag have 3s but I wanna point this out. When kid Shanks is talking with Buggy about Blackbeard not sleeping. Shanks replies "I bet his life has been twice as fun" Twice is bolded like I have here. Oda tends to use bolds to highlight important stuff as well as random things to throw people off. During the arc you cant rely on it too much because of this but you can go back to confirm knowledge. In this case i really thing BB caps off at 2. He has two entities inside him so he can use 2 fruits. In Jaya we didnt get a number but I think Oda gave us a number here.

[solemn ravine]

as if it wouldn't take .1 seconds to get some salt in the bodies' mouths

[modest skiff]

2 entities doesn't quite sound reasonable because both powers are able to manifest within his hands, so it shows some form of continuity. Either he is able to control which he is using at a given time (which I believe, by using the yami to control which is active and which isn't) or his body is somehow able to use more than 1. Since we don't know what happens beyond "you explode lol" it is hard to really theorize what his body could be to allow that, so its just a question mark for me @lost spoke

[modest skiff]

By twice as fun he means since he doesn't sleep at night, he's awake twice as long as other people

[lost spoke]

I'm aware the Twice is suppose to mean because he doesnt sleep but I think its also a reference to this panel without Shanks or Buggy knowing the irony

[modest skiff]

People have discussed this connection before, the long story short is that the other context of this chapter/scenario made it seem extremely unlikely Luffy and Zoro somehow sensed multiple personalities but also failed to sense all sorts of other hidden things

In short, I don't think the more than 1 line has value

[lost spoke]

No, this is too out of the ordinary to dismiss, Nami responses to it. Whether it makes sense for them to sense it or not, its a factor for BB

[modest skiff]

I disagree, but to each their own

[visual merlin]

There's no reasonable explanation for why they'd be able to sense anything like that

[weary cliff]

Nami's response tells you what the line meant. Nami inferred that they were talking about the BB crew but she didn't realize there was anyone else with him

[visual merlin]

It is worded weirdly, but it likely is talking about his crew

[balmy leaf]

It's more likely that they were referring to Blackbeards crew, they picked up on the fact that there were more of them. That's why it was a reveal at the end of Jaya when blackbeard was on the ship with the guys that they had seen in Jaya.

[lost spoke]

More than one, then he turns out to be the one person to control more than one devil fruit, its not a throw away at all

[visual merlin]

it isn't a throw away

[lost spoke]

And they mention his body is weird

[visual merlin]

it was referrin to his crew

which we found out he had later

[lost spoke]

I dont think so

[visual merlin]

It at least has a reasonable explanation

We didn't know he was BB at the time

or that he had a crew

[weary cliff]

Not at Jaya they don't

[lost spoke]

I cant get there friends. He is first stated to have more than one around, ok I can get that but follow that up with "His body is weird" He can hold two fruits and he has twice as much fun?

[lost spoke]

I know, Marco says that. I'm adding it all together

[weary cliff]

It's simply two unconnected concepts lol

[visual merlin]

^

"Its they" refers to his crew, his body being weird connects with his ability to eat another fruit

we also don't know that its only 2

and that may also connect with his ability to never sleep apparently

[lost spoke]

We'll see but whats the explanation for his ability to use 2 fruits beyond having a weird body? I'm trying to answer what makes it weird

[dusky crest]

Have u heard of cerberus

Its my favorite throeyr about bb to this day

[modest skiff]

My theory is that the Yami allows him to “store” devil fruits in his void dimension (similar to the mirror dimension) so that he can use them when he wants. The Yami can be used with 1 other fruit is my theory. So you essentially pull one out when you need it and then mute it while not in use. Since the Yami disables devil fruits and we know BB has a void dimension, it makes sense to me. So he could have like 10 fruits in his void and just use them individually as needed

[lost spoke]

I'd get behind that but Marco's panel points to his body being the reason, not the fruit.

[modest skiff]

His body can be weird and it could have nothing to do with 2 fruits. Marco doesn’t know why he can use 2 fruits. He was openly guessing and made it clear he had no idea

[weary cliff]

I agree. The yami yami also isn't necessarily how he stole the gura gura out of WB. It could have a totally unrelated relevance in his plan

[dusky crest]

To summarize: Blackbeard already has 3 fruits, he has eaten the mythical zoan cerberus dog-dog fruit. And he has 3 different personalities. One has eaten the cerberus, one has the dark, and the other has the quake. He has three of everything btw, the three sword, which conveniently look like claws, the three guns on his hip and he has 3 beard things and three skulls on his flag

Cerberus has three heads so thats why

[weary cliff]

I was feeling this too, but they double downed with Buggy

[lost spoke]

Think of it from an author's POV, Oda is pushing a narrative, pointless speculation only confuses the audience. I follow your logic but its a story first.

[modest skiff]

If you needed heads for a devil fruit you couldn’t give it to a sword or other inanimate objects

[modest skiff]

I agree that it is a story and I think we have plenty of reasons to think a variety of things about BB. We know very little. Of course everything we say is a stretch

[dusky crest]

nah its not about heads its that cerberus has three heads which relates to the devil fruit's power of bestowing 3 personalities or maybe even three different people in one body

[lost spoke]

of course, its all tin foil speculation for sure

[modest skiff]

If it was 3 different people he wouldn’t have 1 in each hand. 3 personalities doesn’t make sense since swords don’t have personalities

[dusky crest]

damn i didnt realize that

but the whole void devil fruit theory you had also doesnt make sense, how could he use both in one hand then?

[weary cliff]

At this point the BB is so built up I'm having creeping doubts on Oda delivering. A sort of HL3 syndrome

[modest skiff]

If we have already been told the Yami is able to deactivate fruits, it sure does make sense to me that the Yami would allow someone to not blow up from using multiple fruits. It’s possible BB would die if he screwed up and accidentally used 2 (not including Yami) at the same time and he just manages it well

[dusky crest]

idk bro seems like a crazy stretch

although im not one to talk, considering my theory lmao

[modest skiff]

Everything related to BB is a crazy stretch

We have so little information and tons of really confusing details

[dusky crest]

hahahaha fax bro

[steel fjord]

Usopp makes his lies true eventually. Wouldn’t it be funny if he truly got a ten ton hammer (mjolnor) at elbaf through some sort of bravery trial? Eneru is going to return eventually it would be so funny if they gave the goro goro no mi to usopps mjolnor.

[modest skiff]

Just in case you feel like more tin foil, here's my generalized BB theory:

By my estimation, there are probably varying levels of "got their salad tossed" during the void century. I think some races were essentially able to escape, some more than others. The Minks, for example, have basically retained their own island and whatnot, but they can't read their own glyph, so something clearly happened. I imagine at some point, the Minks could read glyphs. Then there is Wano. Wano seems to have retained more of its history and culture and whatnot than the Minks. But only kind of. It honestly feels to me like Wano made an agreement where if they burn all evidence of void century, they have a truce. But then they hid stuff? Why not just teach all citizens how to read the glyphs? Why keep this language secret? There's no clear motivation for the glyph language to be secret in Wano if they are isolated. So I think they were more like a negotiated draw. Wano agreed to keep the glyphs secret for a cease fire.

Then there is Elbaf, which we know was labeled the most powerful nation at one point. So they probably have tomes and tomes of history related to the void century and well beyond that. I think Elbaf will essentially be the point of full knowledge, but they have some form of truce it seems. Still kind of unclear how Elbaf fits into the world diplomatically. Wano and Elbaf aren't hidden from the world, but details are scarce.

How this relates to BB: I think it is possible he is a 3 eyed tribe person and person 3 eyed tribes live at the poles. But I don't know if Puddling sleeps. If she sleeps, BB is not a 3 eyed person IMO. What we know of the glyphs so far is that there are huge attempts to hide them all over the place. Certain glyphs say different things. Based on everything we know about the ancient folks, I think they could totally make their way to the poles, despite the ice. But I think the people who live at the poles are even more isolated than Elbaf.

I don't think they are as powerful as Elbaf, but I think it is essentially impossible to reach them due to living through miles and miles of ice. I think because of their ability to read glyphs (special power like 3 eyed? they have a book? They speak that language to begin with? I have no idea), the WG basically wants the poles to be the same as Ohara, no one knows it existed, the whole thing is just a giant secret. And since they live at the poles, the WG has no feasible way of eliminating them without extreme losses. But I think the people who live at the poles enjoy the fact that they are isolated. They want complete isolation and see no reason to engage with the world. I don't have any idea what the pole people did during the void century. I am basically totally comfortable leaving tons of question marks here. But the part that I do feel good about: BB is from a pole, pole people are a huge danger to the WG, no one knew BB was from a pole until Shanks told Gorosei.

Here's an extension of my BB theory: Since on Earth, some places like Alaska can have nights that last an incredibly long time, I think it is possible that one or more of the poles simply doesn't have day time. Or it is like 1 day a year. And I think it is possible BB wants to make the whole world as dark as the poles.

Yami awakening --> eat the sun or somehow remove light from the planet --> the entire world is now the dominion of the pole people once everything freezes. I think the pole people can essentially live on a frozen planet. If the whole planet froze, GG.

My other BB theory:

Xebec wanted to destroy the CDs by destroying the red line. Garp and Roger couldn't let thousands of slaves die, so they defeated Xebec. Xebec or his journal or something he left is in the yami dimension. BB found it/him/whatever and that info is informing his decisions. He is trying to get devil fruits to have a "checkmate" combination to destroy the red line and kill CDs.

[lost spoke]

Yea he is super confusing. I went back and read chapter 225 and its surround chapters. They introduce his crew early and I can see what your saying about it the panel talking about his crew. So I also found a japanese breakdown and its not much clearer there. It can refer to either but i see what your saying about it being their crew. Heres a link if anyone wants the breakdown: https://kaizokuou-ni-naru.tumblr.com/post/190236419061/page-breakdown-chapter-225

[modest skiff]

IMO the only support for multiple personalities in BB is what he says about the beer. When he drinks with Luffy, he hates it. When he leaves, he said he enjoyed it. But that could mean 100 other things too. Overall, the main reason I shy away from the multiple personality theories is that there is nothing about that which would enable multiple devil fruits. So long as inanimate objects can have devil fruits, personalities/brains/bodies/etc just doesn't hold water IMO.

Also, would enjoy hearing your thoughts on my theories above regarding BB

[lost spoke]

Yea i dont have any understand of his body or fruit that might explain his ability to keep them. Real quick are you saying BB was born in the poles or traveled there. We know from like 7+(estimating) on he was on White Beard's ship and we know from the card he was born in the grandline. He might never have left.

[modest skiff]

Yeah the only thing that my theory has a hard time with is the fact that they say he was born on the grand line. It is possible his parents could be pole people, but you're right to point out the poles aren't in the grand line. I don't think he traveled to the poles unless his parents brought him there

[lost spoke]

I currently operate under the idea that he is Xebec's son who would have been very young when he died but I have very little to go off of for that admittedly. Basically one circumstantial evidence is His ship name and the fact that he occupies the one island we have connected to Xebec (except Gods Valley)

[modest skiff]

which island is related to xebec?

[lost spoke]

Full of Lead (Hachinosu)

[modest skiff]

I think he could be Xebec's son but I also think he just admires Xebec. If Xebec and BB were both pole people, they would have motivation for destroying the CDs. Whatever the case, I think there is some crucial detail of BB that Shanks learned about. I think the Gorosei had no idea and they are perhaps the only other people who would know the implications of the information. I think he named his ship to arrogantly pronounce his plans but he also is clearly hiding his power/knowledge in some way. He's holding his cards close while being aggressive

Hard to ignore the skull on Hachinosu and the skull of Jaya

[lost spoke]

(Tin Foil Warning) If their is something like multiple personality or something like that I think Shanks met the most dangerous version of BB, one with CoC and high level haki. Shanks runs to Whitebeard and warns him about his will (haki) specifically

[modest skiff]

The only way I can explain BB damaging Shanks is if someone/something is in his void. BB would need an absolutely monstrous power bump to do what he did. A lot of things about his encounter with Shanks simply don't make sense

[lost spoke]

and he did it before the series started so it wasnt his fruit

[modest skiff]

Can you cite this, I was unaware of that. Where do we know that is true?

[lost spoke]

Shanks has his scare chapter 1 and Oda doubles down in the cards and says its BB who gave it to him with that claw thing

[noble fractal]

Anyone here think that Kaido's from a different tribe of humans? I recently came to think of this after looking at Oars, he has horns, his son has horns. No other giants have horns so Oars is probably from a different tribe of giants, he also a more distinct skin tone than other giants he's built different. It also travels down his lineage, as seen with Little Oars Jr.

[jovial bridge]

R there only theories regards 1021 or has it been released?

[grizzled fog]

Oars is an ancient giant, so he’s from a different race. But horns themselves don’t really indicate anything. We see loads of characters with horns.

[modest skiff]

This says he grew up on the red line, not that he was born there. Where we do have confirmation of birth?

[lost spoke]

I assume Kaido is fron the ancient giants race but only half or something. He even bought the reject giants from Punk Hazard and lives in the skull of one

[grizzled fog]

!horns

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/703457603887300608/unknown.png

[lost spoke]

You might need to translate it fron japanese but oda put his image under grandline for birth place

[grizzled fog]

Kaido just seems to be a big human tbh

[lost spoke]

His fixations with them makes me think that thats his heritage but if a scientist classified him today I think they would put him under human.

[modest skiff]

Fair enough, I'll take that as just directly true.

[grizzled fog]

Is he necessarily fixated with ancient giants? They’re strong, they’re a huge addition to his army. That’s why he bought the numbers

And we don’t even know if the Onigashima skull is real. And even if it is, it’s easily dozens of times bigger than any ancient giant we know of.

[lost spoke]

Yea i went back and its classified under "Ocean of Origin"

[modest skiff]

The WG is also fixated on giants. Or at least they used to be. Mr gas man had his giant kid research. Being giant is just a really big source of power and it makes sense to pursue it

[lost spoke]

Each ancient giant we see gets smaller, I've get assumed over time they genetically move closer to the standard.

[modest skiff]

FWIW, the skull looks WAY more like an "actual skull" in the anime. They put a lot of detail into parts of it. Based on other things being revealed/detailed/spoiled in the past by the anime, I am assuming it is a real skull

[grizzled fog]

Well the numbers aren’t even real ancient giants, they’re failures, that’s why they vary so much in size. So it’s like, 2 ancient giants we have to compre the sizes of lol

[modest skiff]

I think we will see a flash back where that skull was already there pre-kaido

[lost spoke]

Yea I'm not counting the numbers, they actually might have been made using Kaido DNA. If the skull is real which I assume it is you can start to see a pattern. If Kaido is as well then the pattern continuesm, if so then Yamoto continues that pattern. We'll just have to wait for more backstory

Black Maria is a bit confusing though

[grizzled fog]

Okay but assuming that kaido, Yamato and the skull all belong to the same race of ancient giants in the first place is a huge assumption

[lost spoke]

yes, thats why we wait and see

[modest skiff]

Yeah I don't think they are all the same race at all. I think Kaido just admires giants. I think its possible he has the fruit he has purely because its the biggest creature

[grizzled fog]

She’s just a big human. We see lots of them. Just like kaido honestly. There’s not really anything indicating kaido is of a non human race? Kaido is big and has horns, that’s it.

[lost spoke]

I agree but let me ask you, if this idea is true isnt there a point where an ancient giant and a big human cross? Kaido would kinda be that point and it would extend form there, its genes. If the numbers are made from Kaido then ancient giant dna is part of him. Again though I'm giving you a potential road map ***IF ***Kaido turns out to be linked the ancient giants.

[grizzled fog]

I get that, I just don’t see a reason for kaido to be linked to them in the first place

[lost spoke]

All ancient giants are is big with horns

[grizzled fog]

They’re clearly a different kind of big. Would you say Moria is linked to them too?

[modest skiff]

One thing we do know: Giants seem to be getting smaller over time and we don't have a good reason for that. We don't have any concept of how big giants used to be long ago

[lost spoke]

He lives in a giant skull with horns, all his crew wear horns, his son has horns, he is big with horns and he bought ancient giant reject. There are some reason to link the two.

[grizzled fog]

Okay but….how do we know that? Giants and ancient giants seem to just be two separate races

[modest skiff]

True, perhaps a better way to phrase it: We know we haven't seen giants as large as ancient ones so far in modern times

[grizzled fog]

That’s because they were probably never part of the same race in the first place

I mean oars jr is modern

[lost spoke]

Not to mention Wano is hinted to be the country Oar's pulled together

[modest skiff]

He's modern but he's much smaller, right? Or am I remembering wrong?

[lost spoke]

Oars Jr is 38m tall

[grizzled fog]

Oars jr is 60m, Oars is 67m. That’s a sizeable different but we see similar differences in giants of the same race. Not to mention oars jr was only 70

[modest skiff]

Yeah ok never mind then, I consider 60 and 67 close enough to not show something noteworthy. I still just can't shake the idea the giant dynamic 1000 years ago was different than it is today.

[grizzled fog]

The vivre card on ohara’s site says 38m for little oars jr, but that seems to be an error that was corrected

[sand sail]

They seem to just be different tribes of giants

[grizzled fog]

https://one-piece.com/vivre/revision.php

Somewhere in here I think but I can’t read it

[lost spoke]

Yup thats the 38m I pulled, thanks for the correction

[violet badge]

i think Im sama is in love with vivi

[empty holly]

I think people here already saw this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYzqDJBeI9Q

And i have a additional theory to that one.

What if Little Garden is also a reference to Fallen Kingdom...
Little Garden is a Prehistorical Island... Void Century is somewhat "prehistorical" in a way that it happened before recorded history. (Actually a gap in recorded history) There's two giants, two sides, who fight each other as equals, are equal rivals. And then, there's a third side interrupting their battle (Remember how "Don't interrupt a warrior's fight" is a common theme in One Piece since Zoro vs Kabajji, Zoro vs Nyaban Brothers... up to Luffy vs Katakuri"), not to mention that this third side has a large number 3 on their head, along with the girl named after Golden Week in Japan, that consists of 3 days... a week of joy and holiday followed by exams. (My speculation based on my walkthroughs of Persona games...).
And so, we have thought that a giant that lost is dead, but he's actually alive. And that giant's name is... Dorry. Starts with Letter D.
After Luffy defeated Mr 3 thanks to his... "Instinct", finding the real one among many vax copies.... (Might be a foreshadowing), the surviving giant, along with suddenly alive giant, make a gaping hole in a giant fish... might be a reference to Red Line There's something connected to giant Fish... Usopp in his many travels that he did before meeting Luffy and Kaya, had landed on a very long island, that is actually a poop of a fish. So, poop... a creation of a fish... and fish... that is a Mari Goese? The world Goverment? Or... Ym? Ym, or Yam, in Canaanite mythology is a god of water that holds a special hostility against Baal Hadad... Son of Dragon. In other words, two giants, two halves of a whole, unite their strength, make a gaping hole in a giant fish...

[lost spoke]

and Kaido is *around *8.5m. Thats a really big jump in size si unless he's like half AG or something I dont think they would natually drop in size that quickly (think his height isnt out yet though)

[lost spoke]

Watch his video, I think he does a good job addressing that theory: https://youtu.be/ihGJGZ6bSyQ

[violet badge]

https://youtu.be/Yfrt6hr7A7Q

This is about : vivi being a potential wife of im sama and his secret to immortality and reincarnation
One of the theories that makes sense.. This is underrated guys check this out

[solar jungle]

k

[bitter kraken]

There is no reason to think IM had different plans for them, but because all the pics where together id say their fate were the same at least in IM’s eyes 👀. So if Vivi was chosen to be his bride lol does that mean the others were considered to be brides as well lol wtf what the fuck even

[violet badge]

Hey hey it's only about vivi.. Not the others

[errant sandal]

Buggy is shanks dad

[bitter kraken]

Dosnt matter ViVi’s pic was with the others together

[violet badge]

You should watch the whole thing before talking bro

[gleaming vector]

@violet badge
so, the theory is that its true form is not a straw hat, but it changes shape depending on what will be the biggest threat to Im in the future. This would be Luffy cuz he gonna be King of the Pirates. Also, the Five Elder Stars asked Im who needed to be eliminated and its kinda weird that he/she knows who to eliminate even though he seems to be almost shut out from the world. After Marineford, I guess this told Im that Moria needed to be eliminated
Also, there is another part to the theory as well
This is that all 3 types of Haki correspond with the 3 ancient weapons

1. Pluton - Armament (Force + Power + Destruction)
2. Poseidon - Conquerors (Commanding the sea kings as the king of them)
3. ????? Uranus - Observation (foresight as to what will come)
   What do you think of this?

[violet badge]

Damn

[bitter kraken]

Nah I watched just a little bit of it and thought wtf lol

[lost spoke]

Is this your theory?

[waxen dust]

What if I told you we already saw Uranus

[violet badge]

No tink is explainkn me his theory he watched somehere.. It's a nice one tho

[gleaming vector]

I guess Oda might want us to think that the Straw Hat belonged to someone as an actual hat to wear. Maybe this is true, but this is what majority of people think and I think Oda likes to get us all to think one thing and then blow our minds

[grizzled fog]

Hope the ancient weapons have nothing to do with haki

[gleaming vector]

My friend sent me 2 videos that explained this. I can try to find them

[oblique onyx]

I have a hot take I just wanna throw out there. Big if but what if the giant straw hat is a makeshift sake cup? I know straw doesn't really hold water but its one piece not real life.

[gleaming vector]

not as in haki gives them power, but it's just a parallel

[tall bane]

That would make Uranus kind of lame though and would that make sharley uranus?

[violet badge]

Lol

[gleaming vector]

not really. i can explain

I think Sharley just has observation haki that just shows the future for everyone
And I think Uranus adapts to its user and benefits them by showing exactly who will be threat to them in the future

thats why Uranus is a weapon

[violet badge]

I guess there were many doors to which Im sama had to enter and he entered one room that had the straw hat.. Maybe the other rooms had different items or symbols that tells Im the threats for him

[tall bane]

So that would make that big strawhat in Im's freezer Uranus?

I like that Idea

[gleaming vector]

oh also, how would Im know that Shirahoshi needs to be eliminated if Poseidon was a secret to the royal family. There would need to be an outside force to tell them

[waxen dust]

What if I told you guys, Uranus is the first weapon we’ve witnessed in the story

[gleaming vector]

so the blades that stabbed Roger?

[tall bane]

Axehand Morgan's arm? nvm

[lost spoke]

Even the whales knew lol

[waxen dust]

No I’m being serious
Also Tink the parallels with haki and the Ancient Weapons makes sense, Uranus definitely involves a foresight.

[tall bane]

what was the first weapon in the series then?

[gleaming vector]

the sea kings knew because they instinctively know that she commands them

[lost spoke]

Yup. she's their sovereign

[gleaming vector]

anyways, this theory is really good in my opinion so let me find the source so I dont take all credit

[waxen dust]

Uranus is the first one “revealed”, Oda just hasn’t confirmed yet because he’s saving the reveal for later.

[lost spoke]

I might have missed it, did you say what/who you though Uranus is?

If you say its Vivi I agree

[tall bane]

oh i see what you mean now I was still thinking you meant like alvida's hammer or the knife luffy used to stab his eye lol. What would Uranus be then? Do you think it has something to do with Skypiea

[gleaming vector]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WC0vDRNv-k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95ULAiLOW0
ok here they are. its from some guy named Mr Morj

[waxen dust]

I have a theory about, but I am not going to share it yet. But Oda definitely set it up from the very beginning as Uranus. And all the evidence is there to support it as Uranus.
And no it’s not Vivi, she’s Pluton or the key to it, similarly to Enel being the only one to activate the Ark Maxim

[gleaming vector]

i looked at his channel and a lot of his theories have came true like

1. Big Mom coming to Wano
2. Advanced Conquerors being used to beat Kaido
3. Zoro having Conquerors in Wano

[lost spoke]

I'll put my chips on Vivi being Uranus, she likely made the sky rain at the end of Alabasta which is what Uranus does and no it was not dance power from Smoker, you confirmed he didnt use it.

[tall bane]

Alabasta had connections to Pluton in the story though

[gleaming vector]

so what power would Uranus give

[modest skiff]

Where do we know Uranus causes rain? You’re saying that’s a theory right?

[waxen dust]

The rain fell down because Crocodile was defeated and he was the one holding the rain from coming down on Alabasta

[lost spoke]

He's a well respected YouTube who hosted the most recent Reverie. i like his theories because he approaches them from a narrative perspective.

[lost spoke]

Its greek mythology

[gleaming vector]

i think the rain was symbolism from Oda though. It was a way of saying that Crocodiles grip over the country was now over because he held the rain in the first place

[modest skiff]

Zeus is not true to mythology so I think that’s not sufficient evidence

[lost spoke]

Oda frequently matches these things up. The obvious and a secondary meaning. Both can be true. He does it a lot.

[lost spoke]

Just go research uranus

[tall bane]

Uranus was the primordial Sky god i think Uranus will have ties to Skypia and the moon rather than Alabasta

[gleaming vector]

oh i forgot to mention a point of the theory @violet badge

[waxen dust]

Uranus is a higher god than Zeus, Poseidon, Pluto, etc.

[modest skiff]

I suppose my point is that we have had enough examples of mythology not being true to its "source" that reading up on mythology is not necessarily productive or relevant

[tall bane]

Posiedon will have ties to the Sun, Uranus will have ties to the moon, and Pluton will represent the earth i think

[waxen dust]

Uranus-Sky
Pluton-Land
Poseidon-Ocean

And Uranus is the strongest of the three

[lost spoke]

If the name Oda gave it is Uranus, I think you should study Uranus. I get what you mean is its broad but thats up to you to narrow down what would logically fit the story.

[modest skiff]

Right, that's fair. Uranus may contain clues as to what it could be. So long as you aren't saying "Since Uranus is (thing), that means that in One Piece, Uranus must be (thing)" we agree

[tall bane]

I think Uranus could have extra significance because unlike Posiedon and Pluton (Hades) it's outside of the trio of brothers.

[gleaming vector]

so Uranus was the god of the Sky, and if Uranus was in Im's possession, it would be true to being in Mariejois being high up above everything else where Imu has the highest position, like he is looking down at everyone else from the sky

• Pluto was the god of Underworld and therefore death, which the weapon Pluton would cause by its destruction
• Poseidon was god of sea, and the weapon controls the sea kings
  So i think Oda would want Uranus to be symbolic too

I also had my own theory that Pluton was in the hole under Enies Lobby to show the irony in CP9 looking for it. Being in a big hole would resemble the underworld

[lost spoke]

Uranus in One Piece will have some relation to the Uranus in Greek Myth. Who knows what or how much but we know an aspect of the greek's Uranus will be portrayed in One Piece's Uranus, thus when trying to predict Uranus you'll need to know the greek version. From there its speculation but it will relate to the Greek's version in some aspect.

[waxen dust]

This is a part of my theory, I’m not gonna share it, but I’ll give you guys this
Imu had photos of the following:

Joyboy- Luffy/Blackbeard
Poseidon- Shirahoshi
Pluton -Vivi (Alabasta & The Key)
Uranus - N/A

Imu thinks the person tied to Uranus is dead, he doesn’t have any of the weapons.

[modest skiff]

Entirely reasonable and I agree. Thanks for the explanation

[gleaming vector]

do you have any reasoning for why Im doesnt have an ancient weapon or a better theory that Pluton is Vivi and Uranus is something else

[modest skiff]

Forgive me but where in your logic is it implied the person tied to Uranus is dead?

[waxen dust]

Nefertari knowledge of Pluton is passed down generations, so if Imu had her picture it’s likely because similar to Shirahoshi she’s the one who can activate Pluton. It’s like the Ark Maxim where Enel was the only one capable of activating it, the WG can have the Pluton but without the Nefertari bloodline they cannot utilize it.

[lost spoke]

Now where things get weird is whether or not all ancient weapons (Im calling them AC from now on) are sovereigns and if so are all sovereigns people? Pluton has been said to be a ship while we know Poseidon is a person.

[abstract hatch]

everyone dies (my theory)

[gleaming vector]

I don't really know about Vivi being Pluton's key. Alabasta was just the location of the poneglyph for Pluton. It is likely that Pluton is not there, because Poseidon's poneglyph was in Jaya/Skypeia but Poseidon was in Fishman-Island. Pluton actually has more ties to Water 7

[violet badge]

Ayo im back

[waxen dust]

It’s a part of my theory, I don’t want to go into full depth because I’m not ready to share yet. But the main point Imu believes Uranus is dead is because throughout the story we’ve had Marines invade islands and kill off innocent people for the benefit of the WG.

[gleaming vector]

why does invading islands and killing civilians have anything to do with the person tied to Uranus being dead

[sand sail]

That's rarely happened in this story at all

It's happened...what, twice?

And we know exactly why for both times, unless I'm forgetting one

[waxen dust]

Don’t forget Alaburna & W7 have the same design, so it’s likely because they have some ties to one another. I definitely think Alabasta has Pluton especially how much shit it seems they’re about to get into right now with the King & Princess missing and the WG & likely BB heading there as well.

[sand sail]

Pluton was created in Water 7

[violet badge]

Btw what is the purpose of ancient wepons? Is it to help find op?

[gleaming vector]

That is not really any direct proof of Pluton being in Alabasta.

[sand sail]

We don't know yet, Poseidon may not have an actual purpose. We know at least Pluton seems to be for war, Poseidon wants to be for peace and compassion, we don't have a clue for Uranus yet

[gray flower]

Okay what if boa’s ability doesn’t necessarily allow her to kick anything to stone, only those who are somewhat attracted to her or lack the will to resist (pacifistas for example had no way of resisting with will so they turned to stone easily)

[gleaming vector]

Check this theory out about Uranus being Im's straw hat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95ULAiLOW0

[sand sail]

I don't do youtubers

Morj is like #3 on the list of specifically folks I don't watch lol

[gleaming vector]

oh sorry that was a mistake. i summarized the theory here

[gray flower]

Furthermore what if her df also comes with the added bonus of beauty, it seems to me she don’t look much like her sisters

But maybe that’s because her sisters have snake morphology from their zoans

[gleaming vector]

check this message

I tried to copy link but it failed and my previous copy was there

[lost spoke]

I think Vivi is Uranus but I'll help my boy out with his Pluton idea regardless. This panel talks about Poseidon and mentions another "Sovereign". These seem to be the ones with the ability to command things. I've heard others say its Luffy but they also define Joyboy as a separate person that leads the sovereigns to use their powers for good. The Sea-Kings add on that these two sovereigns must meet and that neither are born yet. Both Vivi and Shirahosi are not born yet and met recently during the Reverie. If Sovereigns are ancient weapons (we know Posiden is considered both) then the other weapon must meet Shirahosi at some point.

[sand sail]

Pluton is a ship

[gleaming vector]

we know Pluton is a ship made in Water 7. Its location is unknown

[lost spoke]

I agree, I think Vivi is Uranus and the theory above works for me but I'll throw him a bone at the same time

[sand sail]

I don't think any person will end up being Uranus, personally

[lost spoke]

And here we see Im lumping them together

[gleaming vector]

yes thank you soooo much. I think it would be repetitive for 2 ancient weapons to be actual people

[violet badge]

The location of pluton was written in the poneglyph in alabasta .. croc said that pluton was indeed in alabasta but could not find the poneglyph. The poneglyph is said to have false knowledge regarding the location cause robin had a reaction when she read it .she said : is this all there is ?
So maybe the info is not clear in that poneglyph or the pluton is kept somewhere else cause pluton was infact a ship and it was built

[gleaming vector]

I dont think we should trust Crocodile. How would he even get that information in the first place?

[waxen dust]

Vivi is definitely not Uranus, I am not ready to explain the theory, which is why I am being a bit reserved. The rain incident in Alabasta happens because Luffy defeated Crocodile, it wasn’t Vivi summoning the rain. Crocodile was holding the country hostage and using the sand to dry out the air above from producing any rain clouds.

[sand sail]

Crocodile was going by his own information, not any fact from the poneglyph. The only person who knows for sure is Robin

[modest skiff]

If I may add nuance to what you are saying and give my own perspective: I think Pluton is essentially a totally insane water gun. Whether it works similar to Franky's cola or some other way, I think you can use Pluton for a variety of purposes. You can either wipe out an island...or you can use it to shoot an island into the sky to avoid the WG.

puts away tin foil hat

[sand sail]

The rain in Alabasta happens because Smoker uses the dance powder to bring the rain back

[lost spoke]

I've addressed this

[sand sail]

It had nothing to do with Crocodile being defeated directly

[pine delta]

would cobra know what the pluton is? Neptune knew what poseidon was. Would be odd if cobra didn't even know his daughter was uranus

[lost spoke]

No, he said he didnt use it

[sand sail]

That'd actually be pretty cool, I've always wondered if maybe Gaon Cannon was some form of a weapon from Pluton personally

[violet badge]

Cobra said he didnt know what pluton is

[sand sail]

Lmao he was being facetious

Because it was technically illegal, but he still did it because it helped the people, which is Smoker's whole thing

[gleaming vector]

yes, it was not a cause/effect scenario. However, I do think Oda made sure that it happened right after Crocodile was defeated to show another level of symbolism that Crocodile's tyrany was over

[sand sail]

Yeh, that's for sure. Smoker being a nice guy was cool and all, but it was definitely a metaphor there too

[modest skiff]

I think all sorts of things (such as the Goan canon) are inspired by pluton. Franky said he has perfect memory. I think he remembers a lot about Pluton and is expressing the technology of pluton piece by piece as he advances his scientific/engineering expertise. I think that eventually, the Sunny will get some giant make over that (if I get my wish) turns it into Pluton. Or at least Franky manages to add Pluton functionality to the Sunny. If I don't get my wish, I still think Franky has 1 final big upgrade to the sunny, though maybe it won't be pluton'esque 😢

[sand sail]

A lot of people have wanted that, me included. I'd love if it turned out that Franky used some Pluton designs in the Sunny, but at the same time I'm not sure if I want them to have a ship that broken

Even if it's just small parts from Pluton, that'd still make it one of the best ships on the sea lol

[gleaming vector]

The Thousand Sunny is the Straw Hats' ship. I am ok if it gets advanced upgrades inspired or taken from Pluton. But, if everything about its design becomes a copy of Pluton, I think it would just take away from the uniqueness of the ship

[waxen dust]

Well whether it was Dance Powder or Crocodile losing, Vivi either way didn’t summon the rain. Also if Crocodile wasn’t an effect for the rain to come down hard, how do you guys explain why the country was deprived of any rain throughout all that time. It always seemed like Crocodile was there as the hero so while he was playing this farce he was also drying up the air above the country.

[modest skiff]

I can think of no ship more worthy of that title than being the ship of the pirate king and the descendant of Tom (descendant technically, not genetically of course)

[sand sail]

We know why it happened, it's explained in the arc. It's actually the entire central problem of the arc, Crocodile was using the Dance Powder to keep the country selectively dry

[violet badge]

Guys ive got an awsome theory about the skull in onigasima

[sand sail]

That's why it was such a big thing

[gleaming vector]

Crocodile took all the rain powder away so his devil fruit couldn't be countered

[sand sail]

Hang on, let me get the page...

[modest skiff]

If I may expand a bit on this topic regarding pluton: One of my theories is that the Nefertari family stayed behind to help shoot all the other (AK ally) islands into the sky. Pluton was then hidden deep in the ocean. I think Pluton is able to travel under sea, under an island, and then shoot that island into the sky as a defensive capability. Or it can just gaon canon an entirely island into dust.

[gleaming vector]

shoot islands into the sky?

[lost spoke]

So this isnt sarcasm at all, Smoker clearly explains that he didnt use the powder and why he didnt @sand sail

[waxen dust]

Where was this explained?! All I remember was the dance powder’s purpose being explained. I don’t recall Crocodile stating he purposely used in other countries

[sand sail]

That is sarcasm, Hina even pokes him about caring for people. He used it lol

[modest skiff]

Yes, I think that is how Skypea got where it is.

[lost spoke]

The rain falling due to Vivi or Crocodile is up for literature interpretation but the power isnt

[gleaming vector]

let me find a panel for ya. hold on

[sand sail]

It's not, Vivi had nothing to do with it

[violet badge]

As one of the theory where morj explained , pluton is probably like buggy canon that will be used to blow away either red line or the grand line

[lost spoke]

Thats fine but the powder is clear

[sand sail]

Yeh, the powder's the thing messing with all of the weather in Alabasta, that was what caused the whole civil war

Or, was the central theme of it while Crocodile directed it all

[lost spoke]

Lets get on the same page, yes it messed with the city(thats clear) but it is not why the rains happened at the end of the war.

[waxen dust]

Bean, if you don’t think Vivi is Uranus nor she has a purpose for Pluton since it’s solely a ship for W7.
Then give me your thoughts as to why Imu had her picture?

[sand sail]

Yes, it is.

[sand sail]

Because she's the sovereign of Alabasta

She's the latest in the line of Celestial Dragon betrayers, and is potentially sitting on full access to Pluton

She is an extremely important and powerful person, and she doesn't even realize it yet

Im would

[modest skiff]

I think the Nefertari are seen as a traitor to Imu because I think they were a double agent of sorts during the void century. I think they were AK allies who deceived Imu

[waxen dust]

So you do agree then that Vivi has a purpose to serve for Pluton then

[violet badge]

Vivi is def a potential reincarnation of imu samas lover as i told before..she got no relation with pluton or anything im sure

[sand sail]

Sure, if anyone's going to awaken it, if it's actually at Alabasta, then absolutely I can see her being the one who ends up getting it dug up

I don't think she has to be the one to do it though. She'll be the key just because she's the one who ends up doing it, not because only a Nefertari could operate it or anything

[waxen dust]

Thank You, glad someone agrees with this notion. It’s not coincidental for the Nefertari to have the history of it passed down for generations without serving some kind of purpose.

[sand sail]

Well it's not coincidental, they're specifically the family from back then, so it's what's always been meant to happen

[waxen dust]

That’s upper yard, He was talking about Angel Island

[sand sail]

If Pluton's in Alabasta, they were the ones who chose to protect and guard it for sure

[violet badge]

Sky island

[gleaming vector]

I thought the Skypeians said that the solid clouds were formed from sea prism stone

[modest skiff]

Yes, I agree for sure. My theory is that Pluton is under water, under alabasta, which is a floating island

[violet badge]

Thats a big ass knock up stream .XD

[sand sail]

They're formed from a particle that gives seastone its sea properties

[lost spoke]

Yea they give a bit of and expiation to the cloud structure

[waxen dust]

Which gives a reason for the Nefertari deciding to step away from the Holy Land and live on the Blue Sea. Keep the weapon far away from Imu

[sand sail]

Sure, but if it were that simple, the government would've killed them ages ago and taken it

They don't know where Pluton is, so it may not be in Alabasta

[modest skiff]

Thank you for this. This second panel makes it look like the whole island got tossed up, but it also shows half the bell. What chapter is this? I'd like to look deeper.

[sand sail]

It's actually less likely to be there because of that, thinking about it

[gleaming vector]

292

[violet badge]

That knock up stream was 400 years ago ..what happened back then?

[lost spoke]

I think Pluton have been taken from Alabasta and fought over on God Valley

[modest skiff]

I think its just really well hidden in alabasta

[sand sail]

Remember, all of Enies Lobby and Water 7 happened because the Gorosei decided they finally wanted to actually get Pluton. If they knew Pluton was in Alabasta, they'd just get the original

[waxen dust]

Didn’t Crocodile directly state the weapon should be somewhere buried in Alabasta? I don’t remember exactly but I know he made mention of something like that to Cobra.

[gleaming vector]

his information is false. the only way to know is by the poneglyph

[modest skiff]

Yes, Croc said he had reason to believe Pluton was there, which is essentially what motivated his entire empire of Alabasta

[sand sail]

That was the idea, yeh. But we don't know if that were ever true, kinda like how Big Mom thought the Voice of All Things could read poneglyphs, but it turned out she was wrong

[violet badge]

Wg doesnt know the location of pluton

[waxen dust]

Yeah but was that ever disproven? We just know the poneglyph states the location, but that doesn’t necessarily mean Crocodile was wrong either.

[gleaming vector]

It is possible, but Crocodile doesn't know anything regardless.

[waxen dust]

Yeah so neither do we, so it definitely shouldn’t be ruled out it’s there. I guess it’ll depend on whoever told Crocodile that information and how reliable they are as a source.

[waxen dust]

When was it stated VOAT can’t read the poneglyphs? IIRC Was that during the Oden backstory?

[gleaming vector]

Given the fact that the ship was made in Water 7, there is no evidence that says Pluton would be in Alabasta

[sand sail]

Yeh, turns out Roger could find them because he could hear their Voices, but it was Oden who read for him

Read and wrote

Also yeh, the fact that Pluton was made in Water 7 kinda brings it away from Alabasta a little. Could've ended up buried there, but I dunno

[gleaming vector]

Also, since Poseidon's poneglyph was in Skypeia, we know that the poneglyph and the weapon don't need to be in the same place.

[lost spoke]

God Valley and Pluton: Rocks D. Xebec: His last name is a ship type and his first name is likely after Roche Braziliano who was known for capturing a ship of immense value on his first adventure. The Rocks crew was formed for one big score. Pluton is a ship of immense value due to its power. That power was said to be able to destroy islands. ROCKS may have stolen Pluton from Alabasta. God Valley is said to have disappeared after the incident, something only a few known powers can achieve. The government covers up many events but events with Ancient Weapons are always covered up. Sengoku directly stated the government covered up much of their activity. Any event regarding This event was important enough for Garp and Rodger to team up and would likely benefit both. We might learn more from Kaido and Big Mom over time. We'll see if this fits at all.

[waxen dust]

I wonder what that even means? Maybe within due time we can understand what the “voices” are saying and possibly understand what extent their purpose serves

[modest skiff]

Well ok then, apparently that was an entirely nonsense theory to have. I still think it is possible Pluton essentially has that same power and perhaps the upstream was a way to plant that seed in our head. But you're entirely right that we have a clear mechanism for Jaya getting tossed into the sky. If I was too committed to my theory, I would say it is possible someone used Pluton to try to destroy Jaya. But I don't have enough reason to say that.

[weary cliff]

If the big score was Pluton and that's what BB has his sights on then I like that. But if the WG covered up the Pluton, like Bean said, what was the point of water 7 arc?

[gleaming vector]

Pluton would definitely be an explanation for God Valley's disappearance, but it seems like all people at that island would have witnessed it, including Kaido and Big Mom. You think we would have heard them even mention its name once, considering that they are after the weapons.

[lost spoke]

Yea, it all depends how much they were told or learned. I think after this is when everyone started gathering ponegliffs and what not

[modest skiff]

I like this and it is consistent with my theory that Xebec's core goal is to destroy Marie Jois. Pluton may have been the best way to do that.

[violet badge]

Ora jacksom was pluton maybe

[glad raft]

Maybe Xebec is not dead

[modest skiff]

I think the island totally vanishing is more consistent with it being tossed in the air (my tinfoil hat theory regarding pluton) or being absorbed by the yami

[gleaming vector]

Tom built the Oro Jackson a few decades ago. Pluton was built centuries ago

[lost spoke]

Do you happen to remember the chapter he says he is going to go out and get something? i wanna look back on it.

[sand sail]

While I won't say that it can't be what destroyed God Valley, I do wanna point out a line you say here

"God Valley is said to have disappeared after the incident, something only a few known powers can achieve."

I think literally all but one power we know of that can do this was actually present and fighting at God Valley

Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, Roger arguably, potentially Garp even, Xebec himself

[modest skiff]

And the funny thing is, we have enough data to suggest a fight between those folks is perhaps enough to destroy an island incidentally, lol

[lost spoke]

Very good point actually, definitely for sure Whitebeard. Though are we sure they were all there or do we only have the confirmation of 3?

[sand sail]

Well, everyone I named for sure was there, others could have been but those were the highlights

[violet badge]

In chap 956 blackbeard says : instead of letting it in the hand of marines id rather much take it myself
I wonder if hes talking about pluton cause in the same chapter vivi was shown too

[lost spoke]

Do we get that confirmation in the story?

[queen arrow]

yeah

Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, Xebec, Roger and Garp are all there

[violet badge]

@queen arrow check out 956 hap where blackbeard said it bro

[soft vale]

Blackbeard is the future pirate king

[queen arrow]

why

[modest skiff]

Does anyone disagree with my basic premise of: Xebec wanted to kill CDs, was willing to let slaves die for some kinda greater good. Garp/Roger hated the CDs but had romantic ideals that prevented them from letting Xebec kill the CDs at such a high innocent life cost.

[soft vale]

he was definitely there to kill the cds

roger likes men for helping those marines

[modest skiff]

Not sure about the details, but everything seems to imply he was laser focused on killing CDs and saw that as the most important thing

[violet badge]

Xebec is not known to even the young marines..he prop f ed up celestial dragons or wg

[lost spoke]

Sweet thank you for the confirmation

[median slate]

What do you guys think about that Ohara theory

[modest skiff]

Most people here think it is quite bad

[median slate]

Is it because they didn’t think about it themselves

[waxen dust]

It’s an old theory

[lost spoke]

Grand Line Reviews gave a good response to it

[median slate]

Doesn’t mean it’s not a good one

[violet badge]

Yea

[sand sail]

No, the content of the theory is what means it's not a good one

It's an impressive attempt, but flimsy

[median slate]

My fault Oda

[soft vale]

it’s not bad but the denies lobby and done piece stuff is iffy

[waxen dust]

I mean the fact that it’s as old as the Red Line theory and not mentioned until a YouTuber learns about it 15 years later says alot

[lost spoke]

Yea I think Grandline Reviews deconstruct it fair way

[pure raven]

yeah, i feel like there is a lot more than meets the eye with rocks and he deserves more discussion, i also have a feeling the true history of rocks will portray a much different rocks than what we see now

[lost spoke]

I look forward to seeing his character explained more

[soft vale]

rocks is being made out to be an evil/chaotic villain rn

[pure raven]

perhaps rocks was the good guy during the god valley incident

[violet badge]

Is there any connection between oharars theory and morjs theory about connecting all seas?

[pure raven]

there is an immense amount of mystery surrounding him and oda doesnt do that for no reason, the explanation for everything will be juicy

[lost spoke]

Honestly some of both if there things are touched upon in my Fifth Sun theory, its pinned if you wanna read it but its long. He sun and moon parts are touched upon and so is the grandline falling

[soft vale]

man could’ve just been fighting for equality and a government that isn’t as corrupted

[pure raven]

yeah

the question arises with roger, if that was rocks main intention then why did roger prevent him from destroying marie jois

[queen arrow]

i don't think there's any chance that Rocks won't be portrayed as a bad guy

[violet badge]

Its upto the point for me now that well just have to wait and see

[pure raven]

to me it looks like rocks was the only D. who actually got close to the end goal of the series....

[ancient vault]

and theyre laughing

[soft vale]

I don’t think roger really cared about the wg he just wanted to have an adventure

[ancient vault]

kaido said to luffy "the wider your smile the..."

Im betting its related

[pure raven]

[soft vale]

of course the marines are going to describe them like that

[ancient vault]

they never said anything about that. THats the silhouette

thats oda showing us not the marines describing their appaearance lol

[soft vale]

it looks as though he’s portraying it in his head tho

[modest skiff]

He's a bad guy to most people. If he was willing to let a bunch of slaves die to save the world, I say he's a good guy. Net positive. So long as slaves are being worked to death to move floors for people, there is no moral justification in letting things continue as they are

[waxen dust]

Shanks definitely went to the Gorosei to discuss about Xebec. There’s too many conveniences not to be him. He’s introduced in that arc as the reason why Garp became a hero and emphasized even more during Sengoku’s discussion. Shanks is 39 Years old and God Valley happens 38 years ago, so there’s definitely some connection to be filled in for Shanks about Xebec. That’s most likely who Shanks was asking about to the Gorosei, it’s gonna setup whatever connection that needs to be made between the two

[queen arrow]

???

he didn't want to save the world, he wanted to rule it

[pure raven]

how hes currently portrayed, maybe not entirely true

[modest skiff]

I am saying since the situation is critically terrible, if he was trying to kill the CDs, he was doing a great thing

[tardy pumice]

Idk if I believe the Ohara theory video, but it's clear that there are a lot of kinds of theories the western One Piece community doesn't have simply due to not knowing Japanese. There must be some more interesting theories out there.

[modest skiff]

Whether he is a bad guy or not, I support that goal, regardless of the innocent deaths.

[queen arrow]

the whole reason why Xebec got in to Taboo territory is because he wanted to be King of the World and Imu got triggered

he wasn't trying to do good to anyone besides himself

[lost spoke]

Its also possible he is talking about Blackbeard (who I personally think is linked to Xebec). Shanks went on a tour warning everyone he could about BB

[waxen dust]

Rocks definitely evil, he probably is gonna represent what would happen if a Evil D tried to fulfill Joyboy’s promise and take down the WG with an alternative method

[modest skiff]

The specific wording regarding what Xebec aimed to do is a bit muddy. I am not convinced he wanted to rule. I think he just wanted to reshape the entire world the way he wanted

[soft vale]

I don’t think he’s evil, more along the lines of neutral

[queen arrow]

i don't think this is muddy or vague at all

[soft vale]

that’s like calling the revolutionaries evil

[queen arrow]

they weren't like revolutionaries if that's what you're thinking

[waxen dust]

I am pretty sure the WG are aware how much of a threat BB is already since he’s a Yonko. The Gorosei is always keeping tabs on the Yonkos, that happened all throughout the Pre TS before Marineford happened. So less likely Shanks warning about BB and more so asking about Rocks who’s a man of mystery.

[modest skiff]

It isn't clear if that was what he saw himself as, or if whiny CDs said he wanted to be a ruler, simply because he wanted them to be overthrown

[queen arrow]

Dragon doesn't want to rule the world or comits terrorism and attacks citizens (idk why i typed children)

[violet badge]

How the hell did garp and roger defeat xebec , wb ,kaido and big mom ..they too op for that..somethings more to this

[soft vale]

he wants to get rid of the wg