manga-theories

[pure raven]

First chapter of wano is coming out since july 2 2018

[warped coral]

That doesn't make sense, haki would immediately invalidate all Devil fruit powers.
If you think luffy can't defeat BB because he has 2 fruits less than BB, then shanks shouldn't be able to do it either.

[pure raven]

so it technically 3 or 4 years until it's ended

[pure raven]

Then it's 3 years and some weeks

[modest skiff]

CDs have slaves moving their floor so they don’t have to walk. Yonkos morals >>>>>> WG

[pure raven]

Hahaha true. But Kaido Big Mom and BB just want to conquer the world once the WG fall

[sonic spruce]

I said luffy can't not because of dfs. Bb and luffy are more or less on same haki level if not bb is stronger. Shanks defeating would make more sense because shanks has more experience and has been yonko since long

[smoky basin]

honestly rayleigh and mihawk being related is a theory i stand behind

[pure raven]

I don't think they would make any different. They still evil in some way

[sonic spruce]

Shanks could even bother/scare bigmom

[pure raven]

Luffy is the only pirate who doesn't kill lol

[pure raven]

Well I think Luffy crew and Roger crew are the same in some way. Roger Pirate won't steal from the people who just try to make a living and Luffy crew seem the same

Whitebeard is also not pure evil as a yonko

White beard was with the rocks lol

[warped coral]

Haki as we saw wielded by Kaido seems to be the cap, and Luffy already learned it and will likely have mastered it before he fights BB.

Like there doesn't seem to be anything higher than advanced conquerors haki. So I don't see how shanks can defeat BB with haki alone.

[pure raven]

That was during his teenage year.

He just wanna build a family hahaha

Doesn't change the fact, pirat all do what they like to achieve their purpose, only luffy is an innocent pure litle soul 😇😅
In reality and what oda doesn't show much.
Is the fittest and the strongest is the one who is in the right always even if he is more cruel.
So in my opinion even if kaido and big mom did all they did, they are still needed in the final plot

[pure raven]

I guess that's true.

[sonic spruce]

Idk if kaido's is cap. Shanks was able to do physical damage without intending to to wb's ship. Also, luffy defeating kaido wouldn't be luffy's feat alone. Kaido is fighting 3/4th of worst generation + red scabbards + yamato without any break

[warped coral]

Kaido definitely is cap if he were to live up to his title of world's strongest beast. He's been yonko for a long time as well.

Luffy defeating kaido will definitely be of his own power at the conclusion of wano. Sure Kaido proved to be more durable and has more stamina than luffy fresh, but it should turn out that both will be worn down to a similar state and luffy will finish kaido off by his own power.

Just saying that Shanks, no matter how OP he seems, don't look like he can defeat BB with Haki alone when DFs/ DF awakening exists. If haki is the ultimate power then wouldn't the concept of DFs be quite lame?

[modest skiff]

Not convinced of that at all

[woeful coral]

What are some of the theories regarding the importance of the gomu/rubber fruit and why it was protected by who's who? I don't believe we've had any particular comments from any outstanding individuals about Luffy's ability being particularly special (i.e. no comments from Sengoku, Whitebeard, etc saying anything about how he has the "mythical/special" rubber fruit), so I imagine it has more historical relevance. For example, it may have acted as a direct counter to the Goro/Lightning fruit from users of generations past, so maybe the government wanted someone capable / on standby with the Gomu fruit in case someone incredibly powerful with the Goro fruit were to ever challenge them? Besides the gomu fruit having some other special properties (being Joyboy's fruit, or having weird locked abilities), I can't think of why it would need CP9 protection. But then again, if it was that important you'd think it'd be protected by an admiral or something, considering admirals are utilized in important matters (such as celestial dragons being attacked).

[bleak basin]

is big mom immortal

[pure raven]

Because maybe it was east blue the weakest ocean so it didn't necessarily need an admiral, they didn't anticipate a shanks lvl being there ?
I think what's special about gomu fruit is Maybe being the only fruit related and linked to haki in some way as I explained in my theory before.
But we can't know for sur if the information about Cp transportation has any relevance in the plot or was it simply a fruit like others, what I mean in case it wasn't gum gum, it would have been any other fruit transported at that time to its destination, because any fruit is important to the WG.
Don't forget spandam giving fruits to his agents, imagine before the fruit arrive to innies loby they were taken by some one like shanks a pirate, then would we say the same thing about these zoan fruit?
What made all of this fishy and intriguing is not the Cp transporting gomu but it's shanks taking that fruit, that made it seems that way ⚠️⚠️⚠️

[pure raven]

I don't think that would be the case when we already know of brook

[reef grotto]

I think luffy will beat jack, then kaido, then finish off big mom

just like he promised

I'm unsure about jack cause it was sorta portrayed as a joke but not that much

[visual merlin]

Responded to that message from hours ago just for a hot take. I really don't understand how you expect him to do all that

[reef grotto]

it was just the first message after I stopped reading the chat

or one of the first messages

[reef grotto]

he can certainly beat jack relatively easily if he's injured now that he's learned CoC coating, after that he should still be able to beat kaido, after all that's how things have gone on enies lobby more or less. Big mom could be a 3v1 so I don't think it'd be that hard for him to make one last push. We also have the miracle medicine now.

maybe law is KO'd and it becomes a 2v1

so kid would be a step above the rest of the supernovas while still clearly under luffy

if they both just beat a yonko they'd be too close

[ancient vault]

Dont think laws talking about the jack part cause at this point luffy could one shot him. But after kaido luffy should technically be all out and done for a while

[grizzled fog]

..too close?

[ancient vault]

Whats wrong with being close???

[reef grotto]

oneshot is a stretch

[grizzled fog]

Kid and law needing luffy’s help to beat BM would undermine them anyway

[reef grotto]

yes, that's the point

[ancient vault]

its not really. Luffy will technixally be all healed by now after eating the meat while Jack is at deaths door lol

[grizzled fog]

What? You want them to be undermined?

[visual merlin]

Still shocking to me that people straight up want them to be undermined. Oda's made them his rivals, and it's not like he'll have no one close to him when he's PK

[reef grotto]

well, law for sure, it's kid who has to stay up and get some recognition if you want to keep the rivalry thing

[visual merlin]

these are the main people that'd be his rivals when he's at the top

[reef grotto]

beating a yonko 2v1 is still a big feat

[visual merlin]

indeed,

which is good for them

[reef grotto]

by 2v1 I mean luffy and kid

[grizzled fog]

I really don’t get this. It’s one thing to think they aren’t his rivals or whatever and haven’t had good showings, it’s another thing altogether to outright WANT them to be undermined out of dislike for them

[visual merlin]

well, there's no point in this, you've already said they should be undermined

[reef grotto]

no lol it's not because I dislike them, it's because luffy said he'd beat those 3

I have no feelings towards kid either way

[visual merlin]

And Luffy will beat Blackbeard and shanks as well?

[reef grotto]

uh, yeah lol?

[visual merlin]

Okay, so when Luffy has beaten every yonko himself, and is at his best as PK

will he just have no real pirate rivals

[reef grotto]

he'll have kid

[visual merlin]

the two main ones have been undermined

kidd isn't there either, he's been undermined

[reef grotto]

not to the point of not being luffy's rival

[visual merlin]

he watched as Luffy beat kaido, then came in and saved him from big mom

is probably much weaker at that point as well

but sure, does luffy have any other rivals?

[reef grotto]

luffy beat a yonko, then he was the only one who stood up to a yonko alongside luffy

[visual merlin]

Yea, still putting him much below luffy

[reef grotto]

then he'll get some powerup or something to justify him being his rival, idk who he'll fight

[grizzled fog]

Luffy beating kaido and then saving kid’s ass against BM not only ruins their moment but it makes kid look like total dirt. Hard to call him a rival at that point

[reef grotto]

I assume big mom isn't kid's last fight

[visual merlin]

who else would there be

Kaido is down, the commanders are down, Luffy took big mom out as well

[reef grotto]

maybe kuzan

[visual merlin]

is he gonna fight a number

what?

[reef grotto]

or a random admiral

[grizzled fog]

Guessing he didn’t mean this arc

[visual merlin]

beating an admiral isn't gonna make him seem like a real rival to luffy at that point, when that chance comes Luffy is probably already PK, or is much above one

but whatever, so Kidd is his rival

is Kidd luffy's only rival?

[reef grotto]

yeah, you want law to be his rival too? I guess he can beat an admiral as well

[visual merlin]

Im asking you

[reef grotto]

I'm not gonna bet on law being yonko level by eos

[visual merlin]

okay, so do you think Kidd will be Luffy's only rival

[reef grotto]

yeah

[visual merlin]

I see

[reef grotto]

unless kaido, shanks and BM stick around

[honest spade]

Wait what? How is kidd Luffy’s only rival?

[reef grotto]

which overall is likely, at least for one of them

[grand nymph]

WOW THIS SOME GOOD EMOJI

[reef grotto]

are you talking about law or what

law doesn't even have conqueror's

all yonko have had it except for BB

[grand nymph]

WOW

WOW

[reef grotto]

kid was the only supernova that originally had to stick around

[honest spade]

But comparing luffy and kidd and their feats is kidd really a rival or threat to luffy

[reef grotto]

wdym

we're talking eos here

[grizzled fog]

Hes a rival yes

[reef grotto]

nvm I found the answer, kid is gonna beat garp

[grizzled fog]

what?

Why would he fight garp? And how is that supposed to be impressive enough to make him seem like a rival after his character has already been humiliated and undermined like in your scenario

[pure raven]

He is not a rival lol, maybe a rival in name in fame in deeds, but not in power, he would be a rival in power only if oda mess up logic in the end

Right now luffy is stronger than kidd and law by atleast 100% in my opinion .
Neither learned ryou or have conqueror if I'm not mistaken, what?! how can they be rivals right now seriously I don't understand.
Also without ryou and coating CoC luffy would be above them just with gear 4 and advanced observation haki

[knotty sky]

Kid has conquerers

[reef grotto]

why would it be a humiliation, they've been going at the yonko in a group from the beginning

[pure raven]

That change nothing for him not being luffy's rival in overall

[visual merlin]

powerups are a thing for other characters too, Luffy's a lot stronger rn, but they should be getting stronger soon

[pure raven]

Yes they should get stronger I agree but luffy is already ahead of them by 2 arc in my opinion not just my opinion but that's a fact

[visual merlin]

arcs aren't a measurement of strength lol

[reef grotto]

uhhhh fighting garp? the person who fought by the side of the pirate king? are you serious?

[visual merlin]

but yes, he is far ahead of them

that is why I mentioned that powerups are a thing

[pure raven]

No I used it to simplify the idea 🙄

[visual merlin]

so after the powerups, they won't be so far behind

[reef grotto]

and he'll fight him because he's a pirate, there isn't really any specific reason

[pure raven]

Luffy would have also gotten a power up so no they will be more or less a litle far.
They can be as you Said only if oda make for them an illogical power up.

[reef grotto]

it's just a guess of who he could fight to show off

[visual merlin]

the guy who's also old and a lot weaker than back then

and there should be a specific reason if he's fighting garp of all people

[grizzled fog]

And? He’s an old man now. Soloing him isnt particularly impressive and certainly wouldn’t mean much that late in the story. And there’s literally 0 connection between them

[visual merlin]

Luffy has already gotten his powerup

[reef grotto]

still strong enough imo

[visual merlin]

not strong enough to be anything close to what Luffy would be doing

[reef grotto]

WB was still a threat

[visual merlin]

Garp also isn't WB

[grizzled fog]

Luffy will be at a point where he can one shot Garp by then soloing Garp really means jackshit for kid by then

[visual merlin]

beating an old ass garp wouldn't compare at all to anything Luffy has done Wano and beyond

also again, if he's fighting garp of all characters'

[reef grotto]

I'd say garp should be pretty close to WB

[visual merlin]

there should be a specific reason

[pure raven]

No it's not complete next time he fight kaido it will be the case, he will come up with something new, that would make him fight kaido in the same lvl, where kidd and law where not

[visual merlin]

He's not going to get a third big powerup, not in my opinion

[grizzled fog]

Garp is a significant and very specific character for Kid of all people to fight. They have 0 known connection atm

[reef grotto]

oneshot garp? no way

[visual merlin]

Coc coating is his big powerup

at best he gets slightly better at it

but not enough to be a huge difference

[grizzled fog]

By then? Yes lmao. Might be able to do it now.

[reef grotto]

he fought alongside the pirate king lol, why are you putting him so low in terms of strength

[visual merlin]

because he's not the same person who did that

this isn't prime garp

[reef grotto]

same goes for whitebeard

[pure raven]

He didn't have a complete power up yet he just advanced his haki men.
The next power up is mixing his gears with coating.
If you consider him right now already having a power up with nothing more, then how you conceive him winning kaido!?

[grizzled fog]

He’s an old man that’s very obviously a fragment of his former strength. Even ignoring the high balling that’s required to think he was ever where you think he was

[visual merlin]

Yes, WB was no longer the equal of the pirate king either

[reef grotto]

that's fine, because kid doesn't need to be a pirate king

[visual merlin]

He did, there's no such thing as a complete powerup

and why would that be a powerup

there's no reason he can't already use coating while in his gears

[grizzled fog]

Garp couldn’t bring down blackbeard when he teamed up with sengoku in Marineford lol luffy will 100% be capable of one shottinf him by the final war if he can’t already

[idle crown]

https://tenor.com/view/umm-confused-blinking-okay-white-guy-blinking-gif-7513882

[visual merlin]

and he would win by healing up, taking advantage of the help from Yamato, and enduring the rest of this

[reef grotto]

when did he try attacking blackbeard exactly?

[visual merlin]

Random comment. This comment was replying to the thing about Garp

[grizzled fog]

In Marineford

[idle crown]

What does complete power up even mean lmao

[reef grotto]

uh, I know that?

[visual merlin]

Right, random comment

[reef grotto]

I don't remember that

[reef grotto]

what does this mean

[pure raven]

It means that what you consider now as a power up is not yet finished. And I labeled what luffy will get next as a complet power up

[visual merlin]

It means that had nothing to do with that message, it wasn't like it was saying Kidd had to be WB or anything

[idle crown]

Nigga a power up is a power up lmao there ain’t no halfway to it

[grizzled fog]

Okay. Well it happened. And Whitebeard literally almost killed blackbeard while on death’s door earlier, and yet Garp who you seem to think was comparable to couldn’t beat him while teaming with sengoku.

[visual merlin]

It's a powerup, the potential to get stronger or better doesn't mean it's incomplete

[knotty sky]

Garp didn't fight him he punched Burgess

[reef grotto]

anyway, if kid ends up having some royal thing going on he could have a grudge with the gorosei and one of them could turn out to be really strong, that's also a possibility I'd say. We'd need an explanation why they don't fight themselves but oda could probably think of something

[reef grotto]

I'm gonna check

[idle crown]

Kid and law are gonna trap big mom in a box with sea stone and go back to fighting Kaido with Luffy

[pure raven]

Me and laww where talking in a discussion, so when I sayed that I didn't meant that what he got up until now is not a power up. Because @visual merlin said that he will not get anymore power up he did already get it, so I sayed that to simplify my tought ( not to creat a new polemic 😭)
Luffy for me didn't finish all his power up in general.
IN GENERAL⚠️⚠️⚠️

[visual merlin]

Okay anyway, I can't see Luffy getting three big boosts in one arc, again at best to me he gets slightly better at it in battle

[idle crown]

What other power up could Luffy get

[knotty sky]

What chapter is it? Cause from that screenshot they aren't fighting and I'd like to check

[visual merlin]

and Kidd and Law each getting their own big powerups means they can get to a point where they aren't equal to luffy, but are strong enough to compete

[idle crown]

Advanced advanced conquerors 👍🏿

[grizzled fog]

This is around 579.

[pure raven]

The next power up will be merging coating concept with his gear concept @idle crown
This is my conclusion

[knotty sky]

Aight thanks

[visual merlin]

sure, but why do you think he can't already do that?

[idle crown]

I was finna say lmao

Wouldn’t the power up just be the coating

I get what you saying tho

[knotty sky]

Ok looked at the chapter and Garp and Blackbeard didn't fight it's just Blackbeard boasting cause he got WB fruit

[pure raven]

Because we didn't see the last fight.
And probably what made luffy loose is the way he use coating with his devil fruit technique. (you can be against this idea, but this what I understand from kaido's statement)
I think it will not be as simple as coating one body, but something more complex, maybe a link he come up with to completely merge them together like he did with gear 4 + haki of armement ( just to explain my thoughts). @idle crown

[visual merlin]

How does not seeing the last fight make you think he can't use coating with gears?
Why is that probable?

I can't think of a reason he'd just be incapable of using gears with coating

his coating isn't good enough in general, but there's no reason that should affect gears

[grizzled fog]

They are fighting. Sengoku attacks them and Garp joins him. And that’s not even mentioning the fact that an order was given for like half the marines there to attack the BB pirates

[idle crown]

So Luffy beating Kaido by himself or he getting help?

[pure raven]

The last fight being skipped by oda, means that probably the next power up will be explained by a flash back of luffy's fight, where he probably in the fight come up with the idea or felt the link he will need to merge coating with his gears

[knotty sky]

Yeah I know Garp is there with Sengoku but there wasn't an onscreen exchange of blows between them in the manga or anime

Not saying it couldn't have happened we just can't say for sure it did

[visual merlin]

Okay, that's assuming there is another powerup in store

and you are saying that powerup is coating with gears, because we didn't see the fight

and we didn't see the fight because there's a powerup in store

it's hard to explain why this is bad, but do you get what Im saying here?

Your reason to believe x is y but your reason to believe y is x

[reef grotto]

that's called circular reasoning in case you couldn't remember the name

[sand sail]

Oh no, it can't be argued that they fought lol

It's an observation made in real time by an observer there, so it's a pretty hard confirmed fact that they were fighting to some degree at that time.

[reef grotto]

there's no reason to think they have fought, BB only said "are you gonna be able to stop me?"

nobody straight up said they fought

then again I can see how it makes it likely for garp to be weak

but we could also argue that BB just became really really strong on the spot with both the yami yami and the gura gura

[knotty sky]

He didn't say they fought though

[reef grotto]

plus he had all his crew with him

[grizzled fog]

He outright said he couldn’t control it well, plus this is the same BB that ran from Akainu

Actually not the same Bb, he would’ve likely been stronger when he ran from akainu if anything

[reef grotto]

maybe garp and sengoku were more interested in protecting marineford, while akainu straight up wanted BB dead

[pure raven]

Yes I feel you.
First let's organize this :
-For me the understanding of the situation is like this :
*Luffy lost not because he didn't use well coating but he didn't use well his devil fruit with coating. (conclusion due to the fight information and kaido claim after the fight).
*the fight being skipped let one start question of why?, for you I don't know, but for me it's intriguing so I concluded that luffy next power up will probably be explained due to a flash back of his last fight. (something luffy felt or understood in the fight), (oda strategy)
*also luffy advancing 3 type of haki in a continuous consistent manner in 2 arc when 2 of them in one arc, make me have some doubt that it's not the end because after all this luffy lost, so the next power can only be related to his devil fruit :
Now I believe its 100% not awakening so its probably related to merging coating principles with gears functions (like exemple gear 4 + haki of armement).
Now all of this is my line of tought and my understanding of the situation, yours can differ from mine because you think the only problem luffy has is due to him not using coating well in the best manner (I just suppose from what you said)
But me I think luffy already mastered coating of CoC we already saw him using it, so the problem is not the technique itself but it's use with other techniques.
@idle crown

[sand sail]

Now, I don't know if I'd care to argue whether or not Garp fought here, given that he was standing right next to Sengoku

[reef grotto]

to me it looks like they just didn't really care about fighting Blackbeard as long as he wasn't destroying marineford

[knotty sky]

Yeah that says Sengoku not Garp I dont see your point

[grizzled fog]

And how would they protect Marineford? By bringing down the dude slinging earthquakes?

[sand sail]

Garp is right next to Sengoku, and Sengoku was fighting. We're not gonna say Garp didn't jump in lmao

[knotty sky]

I mean this doesn't actually matter

[reef grotto]

perhaps he had already given up on that by then

[knotty sky]

I said it's possible he did we just don't confirmation?

[reef grotto]

we didn't see it, nobody said that it happened, thus it didn't happen

most likely at least

[sand sail]

Most likely is the opposite term you want to use here lol

[reef grotto]

no lol

[sand sail]

The most likely case is that Garp fought Blackbeard and his crew with Sengoku

'Cause we're not gonna argue about whether or not the hero of the navy, the main man Garp himself didn't leap in when the Gura Gura was around and some upstart was threatening to destroy everything

"Most likely" isn't something that's changing here, objectively speaking given everything we know about him, the last possibility is that he did nothing

[grizzled fog]

Sengoku attacks blackbeard
someone states that sengoku and BB are fighting
order is literally given for marines to attack BB pirates
Garp is standing right in front of sengoku facing off with Bb, while BB challenges them to stop him

I mean cmon

[knotty sky]

Look idk if you guys read what I wrote all I said was we didn't have confirmation and that it could have happened lol

[pure raven]

Garp would 100% jump in, bb was the main reason ace was killed 🤔i agree with you

[sand sail]

Yeh, that wasn't to you, that was to anarchist lol

[knotty sky]

Ohh ok my bad

[reef grotto]

sengoku just shot one shockwave, they weren't even "fighting"

[grizzled fog]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/477571830941614080/868230696202805248/unknown.png

[reef grotto]

yeah, they saw sengoku attack BB and they said they were fighting

sengoku didn't even do anything else the whole war iirc, that's enough to say he "fought" for them

they're also very far from the battlefield

[grizzled fog]

They said they were fighting because they could see them fighting. Cmon lol you must realize the gymnastics you’re having to do to deny this

[reef grotto]

not really, I read marineford and I never believed sengoku "fought" BB properly even before this argument

[grizzled fog]

Okay. You’re literally choosing to disregard a direct statement from a spectator there that says they were fighting

[reef grotto]

as I said, they saw him land one attack and said they were fighting

it's specifically a spectator who's very far from the battlefield

[sand sail]

You don't know who's shouting this, for all you know it's someone right next to both

[reef grotto]

reading those 3 panels it looks like they said it right after sengoku landed the attack

[sand sail]

They weren't that far away from each other and the entirety of the marines were moving at that point still

[reef grotto]

it's clearly someone on the ships we see

[sand sail]

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion?

[reef grotto]

the reaction is "oh no, sengoku started fighting himself, this battle is gonna drag on further"

[sand sail]

Oda uses that pan out shot constantly in Marineford, that's never the case

[reef grotto]

and they were wrong, because shanks came right after that

[grizzled fog]

He even uses the fruit again to shake the whole ass island and according to you sengoku and Garp just stood there staring at him the whole time

[reef grotto]

in marineford we've seen all of the fighting that goes on between the major players, thinking that sengoku and blackbeard, plus garp who would've had to make a serious move for the first time, thinking that all three of them fought and we didn't see them is really weird

[sand sail]

This is where the fight takes place. Like almost directly next to one another, there's maybe a couple battleships of space between where Akainu and Blackbeard would be

thinking that all three of them fought and we didn't see them is really weird

[grizzled fog]

There’s a fuck ton of fighting offscreen in Marineford

[sand sail]

That's almost all of the fighting in Marineford

We see almost none of it on screen

[reef grotto]

yeah but we see glimpses of it

[sand sail]

We saw legitimately one move at a time from anyone ever, and they didn't stop fighting outside of that, and we know this because we see their fights progressing as the war goes on

Yeah, we saw a glimpse of Sengoku and Garp too.

[reef grotto]

and garp would've literally had to join the fight there, we saw nothing of him fighting

[sand sail]

We really don't need to see him fighting to be able to say he most likely decided to do his job

[reef grotto]

we saw them standing with their arms clasped

[sand sail]

No, we saw their fight start when Sengoku blew Blackbeard and his crew away

That was the glimpse, that was the start of their fight

Just like almost every other encounter in Marineford that didn't have to do with Whitebeard or Luffy, we see the start and it goes somewhere else

Then we go back a bit later to see Blackbeard showing off, and then Shanks shows up. So basically what you're saying is Sengoku hits Blackbeard, and they do nothing but stand there as the war rages on around them. Garp looks at him and does nothing as he tries to destroy their base and turn the island over. Sengoku just doesn't move a muscle after that first hit.

Is that correct?

[reef grotto]

frankly, no. Rereading these pages it looks like we see everything that goes on between the major fighters in the war. We follow akainu all the way on his chase, we see kizaru and kuzan and the attacks they throw at luffy. Considering Blackbeard is probably the second most important pirate there after luffy at that moment, everything makes me think we see at least every attack they perform. Blackbeard did use one more earthquake before garp arrives but we don't even see whether he aimed it at sengoku or at marineford itself. Considering sengoku isn't bleeding at all I'd say he probably sent it to marineford, and certainly sengoku didn't have the time to retaliate before shanks ended the war

the marines say that sengoku is fighting not many panels after we see sengoku's shockwave, which is a chapter before garp even gets there

[sand sail]

How do you figure Sengoku didn't have time to retaliate when Akainu had time to do his entire chase simultaneously?

There was more than enough time for like a complete fight to have happened off screen for us

If this were a matter of we see them, nothing else, and a chapter later Shanks shows up, you'd have a point. But Akainu had enough time to chase from where Sengoku was to the shoreline, fight through the Whitebeard pirates, fight Jinbe, taunt Jinbe, get blown away by Crocodile, and for Kizaru to go over and blast Buggy. Oh, and for Law to show up, and for them to get Luffy to the submarine

There was a LOT of time.

Every single thing I just mentioned even occurs after their fight starts.

Having considered all of these things, the only option available here is that they did basically nothing but stand there and speak to each other for the entire time that Akainu's getting trolled by pirates.

[reef grotto]

I'm pretty sure the timeline isn't supposed to be exactly panel by panel, most things we see onscreen are supposed to take place at the same time

it's not like akainu started his chase right after sengoku hit BB just because we see it at that moment

moreover, we see glimpses of BB throughout, and all he's doing is laughing and talking about how great he is

he doesn't look more hurt than he was before, nor does sengoku, who's actually unscathed all throughout the arc

in the panel with sengoku we see garp raising his shirt to uncover his arm as if he's just gotten there, and I doubt it'd take that much time for him to get there, I believe we saw everything that happened between them with the exception of garp arriving and BB throwing one earthquake (we only miss his arm movement and potentially the start of the eartquake, depending on how long gura gura earthquakes last), we just got it split in more than one part

[sand sail]

Yeah, that's my point. Everything is happening at the same time, which means we see exactly when both events happen. While Akainu is going through his entire ordeal, Blackbeard is facing off with Sengoku and Garp.

Sengoku was not unscathed throughout the arc, he's actually injured.

[reef grotto]

no, you're saying that the things we see onscreen all happen consecutively, with some things continuing offscreen after a switch in perspective, I'm saying the things that happen onscreen usually happen at the same time, with little happening offscreen at least for the major players

[sand sail]

Presumably from fighting Blackbeard, given that's his only fight in the arc

[reef grotto]

well, that's pretty strange considering that he wasn't even bleeding, I guess that one earthquake did hit him

[sand sail]

No, not consecutively, concurrently. As Akainu is running around, Blackbeard and Sengoku are fighting. The only way for you to be right, that is for what we see to be the only things that happen, then it would be happening consecutively. Or in other words, they are not acting as Akainu is, they are only acting as we see them, which seems to be your argument here.

[crude solstice]

just remembered this, and zoro in wano (maybe just the anime idk) thats all

with the focus on mihawks eye

[reef grotto]

that's like, reverse observation haki

[crude solstice]

is that a thing

[reef grotto]

yes, what we see are the only things that happen, with the exception of garp arriving and the earthquake starting

they are acting at the same time as akainu, but also before and after

or rather, akainu is acting before and after considering his actions look like they take longer

[sand sail]

What you are describing is all of the events happening concurrently, what I've been saying. If they're all happening at the same time, then the only way for what there to have not been anything except what we see is for Sengoku, Garp and Blackbeard to just stand there and look at each other and nothing else

Not even speaking between panels

Given how much Oda loves offscreening things, including in that very arc, it's strange to have that stance in this case

[reef grotto]

it's not just them happening at the same time, it's them happening at times not completely related to each other

it's not sengoku and blackbeard's fight that got offscreened, it's whatever happened to them before and after that that got offscreened

[sand sail]

Yeah, which makes sense. Blackbeard being there was the only thing we needed to see, we didn't need to see their fight at all, it being off screened goes in line with the rest of the arc. What we got was what Luffy was getting up to. So yeah, everything about Sengoku, Blackbeard and Garp got off screened except what we saw, and obviously there was something more because we don't even see Blackbeard hitting Sengoku but he's still heavily bandaged after the war.

All signs point to some small struggle that happened that we did not get.

[reef grotto]

the small struggle is the one earthquake that we did see blackbeard throw from afar

and I specifically said we did see their fight, we just didn't see everything that happened before and after their fight. But all the moves that were thrown we did see

[sand sail]

Then Sengoku was decently injured from nothing hitting him?

[reef grotto]

from the second (iirc) BB earthquake we saw onscreen, that we didn't see who it hit

[fathom matrix]

Haki is will, so I wouldn't be too surprised if he projected what he intended to do to Luffy being like "Okay, Luffy, I am going to do this to you, what will you do?"

[reef grotto]

that's weird though, I wonder if it's just a special effect or it's a power

considering luffy commented on it it looks like it could come back as a powerup or related to it

the easiest answer is that it's conqueror's

[fathom matrix]

You can armor up objects, see the future and project black spark based attacks, so the idea of future sight projection and applying that to someone someone else.

I mean, Conquerors can knock out people with a shockwave, why can't a good obervation user grant termporary observation to someone?

[reef grotto]

nah I don't actually think it's observation being gifted to luffy, especially considering mihawk isn't supposed to be exremely good at observation

[grizzled fog]

Why has this bizarre idea of literally sharing your vision with others for some reason become popular all of a sudden?

[reef grotto]

yeah

[fathom matrix]

Not gifted, just a small bit of projection

[reef grotto]

if it's a projection of your will it makes more sense for it to be conqueor's

[fathom matrix]

I don't see conquerors being applied in this situation

[reef grotto]

conqueror's literally harms people through the mind with no body-related things happening, at least in base form, so it makes sense that it could send you a vision

maybe regular conqueror's haki is just sending people visions of them dying so strong that they faint

[fathom matrix]

conquerors is more about domination, that was more along the lines of observation and future sight.

as it was projecting what Mihawk intended

[reef grotto]

yeah, domination as in I'm gonna cut your head off

[young imp]

I thought it was just about strong will vs weak will

[fathom matrix]

that's what I mean, I don't think it was conquerors being used, probably Mihawk sending Luffy an observation intent of what he planned to do if he used jet bazooka on him

[reef grotto]

okay, the thing is the form of haki that is closest to doing that is conqueror's

unless, it was luffy's haki that bloomed during the fight

this might actually be more likely

[fathom matrix]

but it mainly just stronger wills overpowering weaker ones, and being used as a shockwave and physical power up, conquerors wouldn't have any future sight based aspects, because that's observation.

If it could do that, what's the point of observation and advanced observation being a thing, when predictions and future sight is THAT form's aspect?

Like, yeah, it could be the obvious that it is just Luffy using observation in that moment.

[cedar sinew]

it's just Mihawk's intimidation and then Luffy picking it up with a premature form of obs or just his animal instinct

similar to Luffy intimidating other animals

[fathom matrix]

actually, that is a good point

Humans and animals avoid danger because we realise that if we see something dangerous, we predict what would happen and we avoid it

so maybe Luffy didn't actually see his hands get cut off, but he was like "Oh shit wait a minute, he looks like he's ready to cut off my hands, I better stop my attack"

Or most likely he used observation to read Hihawk's intent visualised what would happen and stopped

[reef grotto]

yeah, this makes sense, I also see people saying that zoro's intimidation isn't conqueror's, and it makes sense to an extent, the problem is that it's really similar to what haki should be so it being another thing entirely bugs me a lot

[cedar sinew]

yeah. It happens with Luffy and moomoo, Kraken, Duval's bull. Even shanks and the lord of the coast. They're just natural survival instincts

[reef grotto]

actually, I'm pretty sure controlling animals is a conqueror's thing

[cedar sinew]

I think haki is a very magnified version of this

[reef grotto]

FMI was about showcasing the SW's power ups and one of the first things luffy does is taming a gigantic kraken

[fathom matrix]

In a sense yeah, more of less saying "I'm the pack leader, you do what I say" as some wild animal groups follow the strongest

[cedar sinew]

I mean Oda has made it so that a lot of things in this series (esp stuff that happened earlier) can be attributed to haki, retroactively. But at the same time a lot of the stuff that gets called out for being properties of conquerors are just natural intimidation

people also bring up urouge picking up on zoro's killing intent in saobody

no need to hyperanalyze it, it's just people's instincts. Even irl people give off certain vibes.

[modest skiff]

I think it’s possible that exertion of will always was going to be a power and it just got fleshed out more as time went on to be it’s current form

And I think intimidation ends up being what I suppose the result of exerting your will on someone is. Like if Mihawk looks at someone and says "Don't you fucking dare", them freezing in place is kind of intimidating/willing

[cedar sinew]

my take is that if it's anything other than people literally getting knocked out, it's just regular intimidation/instinct/presence. Anyone could look at Kaido and tell that he has a menacing presence. That doesn't make it observation.

one exception though is Luffy glaring at Kaido as he was knocked out

I feel that is potentially an application of conquerors

[modest skiff]

I agree with this

[iron lion]

Theory: Kaido won't end up dying by the end of Wano, but will end up Crippled/Paralyzed

[modest skiff]

I prefer he joins the fleet as Luffy’s Tsundere. I think it’s more likely he just gets a huge boner by being knocked out and becomes another Bartolomeo

[iron lion]

would be fitting for a man who's led via strength and power to ultimately be shorn of the One thing that makes him an emperor/pirate captain in his eyes.

fits with the idea of villains being defeated in 'poetic' ways. Like Crocodile being sent flying as his deeds are brought to life as with Doflamingo being sent to the ground from the heavans

@modest skiffwould luffy really forgive the guy who's been keeping the people of wano starving for so long?

I know with regards to impel down luffy freed crocodile but that was for the sole purpose of saving Ace, and thus they needed all the muscle they could get to break out of prison

[cedar sinew]

I see absolutely no way Kaido joining Luffy to work towards something in any capacity after Wano

[modest skiff]

Depends, I have no idea. A lot could happen between now and then.

I see Kaido as first and foremost a slave to his own boredom. Look at the way he sits with his face resting every time. I really see him as a dude who just wants to have fun one last time or perhaps for the first time. My other theory about Kaido is that he actually gets stronger from stronger opponents or longer fights, but I have less evidence of that. I think that it is conceivable that Luffy would represent something very unique to Kaido and that perhaps by finally giving Kaido a thrill, he will admire Luffy.

My theory breaks down when we consider the path to Kaido's redemption: Where is it? Seems totally impossible. So while I have a mechanism for Kaido wanting Luffy, I don't have a good mechanism in mind right now for Luffy wanting Kaido.

If I may theorize further than maybe I should: I think its entirely possible Kaido/BM do not end up being the final bosses of this arc. If Kaido saves Momo's life in some situation for some reason (perhaps he sees a glimmer of courage in Momo standing up to someone [remember how he wanted Momo to be brave at first? but when Momo wasn't, he was disappointed] and then Kaido defends him), then I can see my dream finally coming true of Kaido training Momo.

Overall, the thing I feel most comfortable with is BM/Kaido not being the final boss of the arc. Maybe the strongest, but not the last. I could see weakened Kaido and BM fumbling their way through the remainder of the arc when someone else shows up

[feral scroll]

Kaido training momo?

I don’t think kaido will get that sort of remdemption

[modest skiff]

Probably not, but that’s why it’s my dream but not expecting it. Some amazing dynamics would need to take place first

I do legitimately believe that the personality hints we have been given allow for the possibility for him to suddenly decide Momo is worthy or special

[weary cliff]

Kaido sparked Momo's entire fear of heights by traumatizing him and also murdered his dad. That's a hell of a relationship to mend

[modest skiff]

But he wanted to spare momo. He was hoping to be impressed and he wasn’t. He admired Oden and hoped Momo didn’t fall far from the tree

[weary cliff]

I'm more looking at it from Momo's side, which is a much harder sell

[scenic thicket]

alright hear me out cp0 isnt here to confirm that Whos who dies in the battle they are there to make sure King dies. hes part of an unidentified race that has dwindled out with possible ties to Im. this could be Im consolidating power

[modest skiff]

This only happens if cp0 has some super lame ability to both stun someone and vanish quickly. I honestly just don’t see how cp0 tries to kidnap anyone remotely relevant and still escapes

[scenic thicket]

no theyre gonna make sure he dies not kidnap him?

[grizzled fog]

I mean anyone remotely relevant is gonna be horribly injured or dead tired after the battle lol

[grizzled fog]

Well they can have multiple reasons for being there, we know who’s who is part of it. Unless you’re saying they were lying for some reason

[modest skiff]

Yeah if this ends up some kinda “everyone loses but Luffy barely loses less”, I can see cp0 being opportunistic and frustrating.

I fully and completely hate cp0 so much. Awful all around

[grizzled fog]

Uh why?

[modest skiff]

I don’t like their development, I don’t like the way they operate, I don’t like any of the character designs, I don’t like their speech patterns

[iron lion]

would you like them better if they were just Lucci and Co. from the Reverie?

[modest skiff]

Their actions. I was never a fan of cp9 because they all had garbage personalities. Then Lucci has an abomination for facial hair. But at least the giraffe was cool. Everyone else was meh except the guy who computed power levels (another incredibly stupid component of cp9)

[iron lion]

I thought they were rad as hell

[modest skiff]

Shrug, to each their own

[iron lion]

Dark Justice is the ultimate ideology
"Colleratal damage, what's that?"

I agree, CP0 should be the like Interpol of One Piececommanding all these different spy agencies

[modest skiff]

Another thing is that they are essentially the only characters in the entire show I’ve actually not enjoyed. Even villains I love to hate, I enjoy. Like Orochi in a sick way. I don’t like HIM, but he’s “enjoyable” as a character. I just didn’t like cp9 or cp0 for some reason

[amber oar]

I'm almost sure that Fukurou thing was a fourth-wall dig at powerlevelers

[iron lion]

What if the Power Level is how much food you can shove in your gullet

[modest skiff]

Agreed, it felt like a parody intended to make fun of it

[amber oar]

I wonder how many letters has Oda received asking him to powerlevel characters

either way, Kumadori was kinda funny, Jabra had a personality, and who I'm fooling, I'm a perv and Kalifa was smoking hot

[limpid schooner]

I really wanted to know franky's power when he hit him with the strong hammer

Thats true

[steep vigil]

luffy totally has self regeneration, since hes the only one that loses teeth in fights and they grow back

[amber oar]

Brook who isn't even biologically alive

[light pond]

They grow back cuz of milk 😂😂😂

It will be self regeneration if it grows back instantly. It might be a gag but still not self regeneration 😂😂😂

[pure raven]

Yo what is your prediction after wano end? What is some keys event that will happen ?

[agile vapor]

We would finally see what happened at the reverie

with cobra dying and sabo missing or something

[agile vapor]

but, personally I think there will be a arc revolving around kuma's backstory and bonney

[pure raven]

Yeah I'm curious with Bonney , I think she did escape from the marine at some point. How?

[agile vapor]

maybe they didn't use kairouseki on her

but that wouldn't make sense because akainu is not that dumb

[pure raven]

I don't think so. Why would they not ? She's one of the worst gen and it's akainu lmao

[agile vapor]

ikr

[grizzled fog]

Well they could’ve put seastone on her and she still escaped, most seastone handcuffs don’t drain the users energy so much that they can’t even move. Think they’re usually lower density. Should still be able to move, and being a worst gen she wouldn’t be totally useless without her fruit

Probably how kaido escaped so many times too. He was still strong even with seastone cuffs and he broke out before they could put him in a truly secure place

[modest skiff]

Really feels like they should just not use specific people for labor

Just put really high purity cuffs on people like Luffy lol

[forest rampart]

@zinc iris Any question for part one? I want to drop part two soon.

[dusky notch]

How many still blvs luffys gonna take down both kadio & big mom

[pure raven]

i dont think he is that strong to be able to take down 2 yonkos

he is already struggling against a single yonko

[sour reef]

likee

[pure raven]

DO YOU HAVE SOME THEORIES?????

[tired osprey]

thats weird

[pure raven]

⬆️Could it be big mom who fought them in the triangle before brooks crew die?
But I doubt it ! why wouldn't brook recognize her? Or he didn't say anything so that his crew (the straw hats) don't feel the need to take revenge for him?

Maybe she took a litle of brook soul and that affected the appearance of napoleon? At that time

weren't they killed by poison arrows?

I didn't say big mom killed them one by one 😅

I'm asking because I don't remember poison arrows being a Big Mom thing

Yes but what I only said is that big mom may have taken part of their soul not that she killed them, it just supposition based on the image, I sincerely don't have explanation to the poison part.

would taking their soul change Napoleon's appearance tho?

[fathom matrix]

Odd idea, but do you think if someone died, Marco could resurrect them with his fruit at the cost if his life?

Like like how a pheonix can resurrect from it's own ashes, maybe Marco could burn the corpse of someone's body, and with his own life, bring that person back?

or if Marco died, he could bring himself back to life once?

[pure raven]

That's one of my questions too, cause why would he add that, but not in her 70 years

maybe the hat hitself was damaged at some point for some reason

Could be

to the right, there's some dead Rumbar pirates, one of them has a crack similar to Brook's - could just be a common Oda design

[pure raven]

Indeed, still its awkward why would he do that at only her 48 years, I think there is a plot there

[zinc iris]

so I finally read the whole thing, and I have some points to raise:
crocodile has basically no way to know about the AK, it was just about what was known about Pluton in fame
if pluton was used to destroy the AK, then it meant it was used by the WG, that should know where it is instead of tasking CP9 with kidnapping robin for that knowledge
also it was who left the poneglyph behind that knew the location of the ancient weapons
roger named the island "laugh tale" on a whim, crocus was about to say the old name of the AK
also the WG would know where the AK was located considering they destroyed it in the first place
also while we know that leaving the poneglyph behind was done in relation to the AK, we also know it was this Joy Boy that spread them around the world, and we can't say if they were something as dominating as the king of the world
raftel likely is a location that even the WG was not aware of, so that the last piece of knowledge would be better preserved, as while the WG cannot destroy them it can definitely steal them

[lavish ember]

What is AK?

[pure raven]

Ancient kingdom

[lavish ember]

Ohh ty

[radiant geyser]

Do you think Laugh Tale's / AK's on the moon, given those corrections? Or at least not on the planet One Piece has been set on so far

[zinc iris]

not necessarily that far, i just think that the AK's capital and laugh tale are different locations

laugh tale is where important things were left for safekeeping

but the WG would know where the AK was so it would not be issue for them to find laugh tale to seize the artifacts in it if it were the same place

[radiant geyser]

I don’t think they Ancient Kingdom will return, so I’m not sure how important it is whether they’re different or the same tbh.

[split ledge]

Any theories on zoro vs mihawk.????

[modest skiff]

I’ve been actively assuming he has some kind of self resurrection but perhaps he can res others

[zinc iris]

I think it won't happen, mihawk will be defeated by someone else and zoro will defeat this character

[pure raven]

I don't think there is someone like that for now, even shanks after loosing his hand wouldn't get to completely rival him, he himself said that,
So aside from the gorosei / imu who we know nothing about I can't see who would be in 1 vs 1

[lost moat]

So this is kinda a theory I just thought of as I sit in the ER with some morphine in my system, but Zou and Chopper. Choppers whole goal is to make a medicine that can cure anything. What if the Minks are part of the reason that happens by him modyifying the medicine that the Minks use.

[modest skiff]

I think minks medicine will be a part of his ultimate journey but not the end, similar to sanji learning to cook various places

[lost moat]

I mean definetly not the end, but I think it will be Choppers first big step towards that goal. Is him working on modifying their medicine to have almost no side effects if possible.

[forest rampart]

crocodile has basically no way to know about the AK, it was just about what was known about Pluton in fame
i agree that there's no way for Crocodile to know about the AK since Prof Clover only came to realise about its existence from studying the poneglyphs after all. While i have no definite proof for this one, i'm confident enough to say that the island that was destroyed by Pluton is definitely the AK. At least, i could assume it is Raftel since Crocodile is a pirate that has a goal to become a Pirate King. Also, I agree this one is a stretch but since that was so early on and we didn't know any info of other islands that might be blown by Pluton, I can only think of Raftel, and no other islands.
if pluton was used to destroy the AK, then it meant it was used by the WG, that should know where it is instead of tasking CP9 with kidnapping robin for that knowledge
Yes, it would means that perhaps the 20 allied kingdom (later known as WG) used Pluton to destroy the AK.
As, for the WG wanted Blueprint of Pluton, the idea was suggested by Spandam, in which the Gorosei told him to bring the blueprint to them as a proof of its existence. Things is the WG never wanted to reveal the existence of the ancient weapons, something that is directly connected with the Void Century, the history that they deliberately wanted to hide and bury. Revealing the existence of ancient weapons only would eventually reveal something that is related to the VC. And WG only wished to hide the existence of those ancient weapons, not to uncover it. They seemed to very much fear the existence of those weapons.
roger named the island "laugh tale" on a whim, crocus was about to say the old name of the AK

Yes i could agree that perhaps Laugh Tale is not the old name of the island, but i can also see the possibility of it being Laugh Tale because of the last line of Binks Sake; ...waraibanashi, which if translated separately from the sentence of the lyric, it would literally means Laugh Tale (confirmed from fluent Japanese speak themselves).

also the WG would know where the AK was located considering they destroyed it in the first place
Yep WG definitely know the location of the AK, but that doesn't mean that they'll do anything to the island as AK already lost the Great War, and i don't think there's any need to go to the island either.
also while we know that leaving the poneglyph behind was done in relation to the AK, we also know it was this Joy Boy that spread them around the world, and we can't say if they were something as dominating as the king of the world
No, we don't know if it was Joyboy that spred those poneglyphs all around the world. There's a chance that the task was done by others that received Joyboy's words and will. Prof Clover said there was once a huge kingdom that have a great power in the past. And we know that those who have sun symbol in their flags are most likely the allies of those AK. Based on this, we can say that AK did have a huge power that could easily spans across the world, whether they rule the world or not, which is another story.
raftel likely is a location that even the WG was not aware of, so that the last piece of knowledge would be better preserved, as while the WG cannot destroy them it can definitely steal them
if AK and Raftel are the same place, ofc the WG would know its location. But if both are different places, then yes, there's a chance for WG to not know of its whereabouts. Yea maybe the WG can at least steal those poneglyphs and hide them at Mariejoa or somewhere. But we have very little info on those last piece itself.

but the WG would know where the AK was so it would not be issue for them to find laugh tale to seize the artifacts in it if it were the same place
it looks like you think that everything was there, but i think that Roger only managed to know about everything because they have every copy of each poneglyphs, and brought them along to the Laugh Tale, thus forming the Rio/ True Poneglyph, the one that Robin actively sought for. And i think this is also the reason why Rayleigh said that "perhaps you'll come to a different conclusion than ours" because Robin was from Ohara, the Island that studied the poneglyphs. And there's also a poneglyph hidden under the Tree of Knowledge. And Robin also found one in West Blue as seen during her flashback.

[pure raven]

can someone explain why laugh tale wud be on the moon

i dont get the theories abt the moon

[sand sail]

It stems from the theory that because Laugh Tale is so hard to get to, there's a decent chance that it's either hidden away or placed somewhere that almost no one can actually manage to get to with any kind of general sailing circumstances. So, the best bets for that would be either in the ocean or on the moon.

[lost moat]

Enel is on the moon too

[modest skiff]

We have tons of allusions to the Moon, Enel finding ancient stuff on the moon, Kozuki link to the moon, Mink link to the moon, probably other stuff I am forgetting. Add the fact that technology appears to have been actively squelched for the masses and it appears the moon is in some way related to something not the WG

[neon shoal]

Holy shit!

[scenic thicket]

i noticed in the anime the sun god pose so i found it in the manga too

[queen arrow]

why is the thing people are so hung on about the sun god his generic pose

[teal lion]

they have a crush on him

[neon shoal]

Because sun god seem important reference in one piece

[weary cliff]

Its either Oda who is hung up the pose, or these are intentional connections

[velvet edge]

@cold urchin please keep it to serious theories

[limpid holly]

i just didn't get it tbh

love the passion and effort you made into this theory

very creative

but still dont get it

how you come up with 1 tale in luffy's name?

whats Monogatari?

but whats that have to do with luffy's name?

lol not so smooth of you

...

[hidden oxide]

don't mind me im tired lol

[bright eagle]

I find it interesting that both Oden's son dan Kaido's son eat a DF becausre they were hungry

[modest skiff]

And so did Dragon's son

[pure raven]

@novel zephyr

[pure raven]

i just came up with the most basic theory ever, everyone with the strawhat is joyboy. easyyyyy

[karmic blaze]

[pure raven]

Late night theory time; jinbei is the sun god, inheriting the will of fisher, he will lead fishman island to the sun

Not literally, more like make them able to live on the surface

Also he used to be skinny

[small pasture]

hey guys , which real person does each one of the five elders correspond ?

[pure raven]

I know gahndi and Gorbachev

[small pasture]

the wiki doesn't say anything about ghandi

it says
France UK Russia CHina USA

[pure raven]

Maybe not then

[small pasture]

But ye Gorbachev is the Russian guy

[pure raven]

Are they even celestial dragons

They don't look ugly enough

[weary cliff]

Perhaps through ope ope no mi they come from a period where the CDs weren't inbred. On the other hand, the Don Quixote's all look fine

[warped furnace]

What if hear me out. Yamato's "role" on the crew is brewmaster. The title of her chapter with ace was "the sake I brewed while waiting for you". The straw hats always love to party. They got a chef who cooks massive banquets. I think they need someone to make some liquor for all the party's they throw. Also maybe she could make some soda for Franky so the sun y and our cyborg inventor have a constant power up with a bigger supply of cola. I will concede that there isn't a confirmation that she knows how to brew liquor or that she's a big drinker. Even though she did seem to enjoy drinking with ace. I do think she may supply the sake for the big post wano party!

[weary cliff]

Big if true. I'm going to screencap this

[warped furnace]

Yeah I hope it's true. Just a random thought that popped in my head

[novel zephyr]

https://twitter.com/sandman_AP/status/1340859630117777409 This is what the titles based on if you didnt know

sandman (@sandman_AP)

Chapter 999 title "The Sake I Brewed to Drink with You" is based on Japanese literature called Manyoushu written 1200 years ago. It goes, "I wonder if I'll have to drink this sake alone although I brewed to drink it with you.." Yamato will never drink sake with Ace again..😥

Retweets

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Twitter · Dec 21, 2020, 3:20 AM

[warped furnace]

You're probably right

But porque no Los dos?

[pure raven]

Did the latest episide just confirmed zoros coc?

It looks like that to me ?

[real cairn]

yeah def but its a filler

[dusky acorn]

In the world of One Piece that the non-canon anime exists in, it is confirmed for them

How much bearing one thinks the anime being solid on Zoro having Coc has on the manga varies from person to person, but what's certain is that this definitely doesn't hurt Zoro's chances of having it

And given all the likely indications we've had in the past.. I'm personally sold on him having it now, it feels like too much to deny now

I think we can expect to see him visibly use Conquerors in the manga once he gets back up to fight. He must have some idea he has it by now, after Kaido's comment

Could try to do some weird thing about exerting his will to test Kaido's comment to the mettle, then it clicks and he'll 100% know he has it

[pure raven]

💯

[halcyon forge]

Why aren't I able to post an image here? :I

[pure raven]

Honestly I don't much care for it cause logically he kinda has to have it

[grizzled fog]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[pure raven]

This isn't me being a Zoro stan; this is just me stating outright that if he wants the position as pronounced as like the best swordsman in the world, he'll have to stand up to some extreme heavy competition which makes sense that the real candidates for such a position would need CoC

[halcyon forge]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[halcyon forge]

So I pieced all these 3 together Thoughts? Looks like it is implied that Monet was lied to

[grizzled fog]

Not quite lied to. She just didn’t understand him like the others. Which makes sense, they literally raised him into what he is now

[halcyon forge]

But then again, she didn't appear in Law's flashback when he used to be in the family back then, as Oda pointed out at SBS 77 that Moent and Sugar are sisters

[restive kestrel]

Anyone saw the anime?

Zoro litteraly used CoC

[reef nest]

Can't find the huge ass theory on why Zoro didn't have CoC.. which was on pinned

[ancient vault]

You know the one on the left is not from one piece lmfao

or are these ust shitty scans

[acoustic helm]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/oqu2io/blackbeards_secret_hes_an_octopus_tako_tako_no_mi/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[tired osprey]

@pure raven

[pure raven]

Ohhhh, so it's making it rounds? Good. It's a creative theory

[pure raven]

wait so I just caught up did kiku and kinemon die fr? are the scabbards all gonna die like the theories? wouldn't that leave wano with basically no protection after LUffy and co leave? is oda gonna give wano to world government?

[robust sky]

maybe the gifters will be protecting it or something

[pure raven]

the way wano was closed off to keep wg out I don't think that would be possible, the gifters aren't THAT powerful. maybe whitebeards will get it? ig it depends on if izo dies too or not

[maiden terrace]

Yamato is my theory, if the scabbards die

[robust sky]

she wanted to sail hahahah so maybe the possibility of her staying is low

[pure raven]

oh that could be it. then the yamato new strawhat crew theories would be wrong which I would be 100% ok with

do y'all think we will get Luffy going after sabo after wano or we have to wait till after he reaches laugh tale to find out what happened to sabo. since sabo is in the holyland they would have to go back so I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon unless he is a slave like kuma and they see him with one of the nobles somewhere

[maiden terrace]

My sole basis for the theory is how Yamato identifies with Oden. And also how Yamato joining the crew changes the dynamic drastically

[steep vigil]

ryou might have another name, just like how "mantra" in skypiea was actually observation haki

and there are extreme parallels with wano and skypiea, closed in territory, strongest person lives off mainland, plus they dont mind destroying their territory to kill enemies

[gloomy canyon]

can you elaborate on what you mean by "the dynamic changes drastically" if Yamato were to join?

I keep seeing people say this and I have no idea what they mean

Because she's too strong? Would she not fit personality wise and destroy inter group banter?

[pure raven]

I'm also having trouble understanding how she'd ruin the dynamic?

The same arguments were used when Jinbe was in the process of joining and look how things are now.

[gloomy canyon]

The straw hats vary so much from smart to stupid, goofy to serious, and anywhere in between

There's no set personality traits one needs to join lol

[tired osprey]

jinbe got one shot by akainu, while yamato is taking kaido on 1v1 🤓

[gloomy canyon]

and they all get their own little quirks

[tired osprey]

and yamato lacks quirks except for the want to be oden quirks

[ember trench]

Yamato has no dynamic with anyone

[tired osprey]

i guess she has some weird pseudo parent dynamic going on with momo

[ember trench]

She just Oden

[gloomy canyon]

We haven't seen her interact with anyone but Luffy yet

[pure raven]

Franky

[ember trench]

And she never wiiiiiill

[gloomy canyon]

That was barely anything

[tired osprey]

and thats what we got and will get

[gloomy canyon]

I'm not talking about Yamato ever again on this server until we get to the fateful day of finding out whether she joins or not

[tired osprey]

why is your name back to normal?

[ember trench]

You’ll have to coward

[tired osprey]

misread and thought you wrote falafel day

[gloomy canyon]

let's take it to #also-manga

[pure raven]

How hilarious.

[pure raven]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/oqu2io/blackbeards_secret_hes_an_octopus_tako_tako_no_mi/

ABSOLUTELY INTERESTING... AND MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. WTF.

[jovial phoenix]

To the earlier discussion on Dynamics with Yamato. I can see Robin and maybe Nami becoming her mentor as her mental is that of an oppressed child wanting to be free. I think Robin can relate in some ways.

[proud crystal]

that would be really cool!!

[ancient vault]

Robin didnt really have an abusive father tho

Sanji could relate a lot more

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/eustass-kid-beats-big-mum-with-help-of-big-mum.15916/
@dusky acorn

[tepid kite]

big mom dies from diabeties

[bitter kraken]

Zoro isn’t confirmed to have CoC right?

[dense wing]

The anime showed Zoro having it in a filler scene, take that as you will

Personally I see it as them knowing he has it and wanting to flex it early, for better or worse

But it’s not fully officially confirmed in manga, we’re still in the same place we were before

[modest skiff]

Not confirmed but it is bizarre that people don’t think it’ll happen

[modest skiff]

Yeah there’s just no way the anime would show that without it being true. It would be like having Robin use haki in the anime but not the manga

[compact glade]

She gon die

[pseudo citrus]

so who kills her?

[compact glade]

Uh, kaido?

[pseudo citrus]

as part of his master plan to make her shogun?

[compact glade]

100%

[dusky acorn]

This is much different from the anime simply changing things up to make a character look stronger in a fight, or changing the choreography of a scene. Giving a main character a power like this is not only huge, but such a black and white thing that even for the anime, it'd almost feel disingenuous for me not to take that seriously.

And just think of it like this, if the anime somehow turned out wrong, then how far down the rabbit hole would they go with it? Do they end up doubling down by heavily deviating from the manga at that point by making Zoro use CoC for tons of future battles, when in the manga he doesn't since he ends up not having it. Or, does the anime shamelessly go back on it and never bring it up again? Both of these things sound very unlikely to occur.

Ch 1010 was just 3 months ago too, and I doubt this episode wasn't already in the making before that chapter came out. That's why I do think this was already a confirmation the Toei head honchos had prior and decided to include here, knowing it's true even without them having that manga chapter released to take into account.

[dusky acorn]

Thanks, I'll give it a read in a bit and see what I can salvage from the post

[pure raven]

Interesting theory but How would he activate the power of hera and prometheus, with his magnetic power, I think this part in the theory is missing
And is the most important part if there is no logic to how he would control their power with his magnetic devil fruit then all this theory would be very weak.
Only if they are dump enough to try to attack the cage of the robot like form, and he direct that attack to big mom.
But I don't know if that is possible
Or if that is even enough to beat big mom

[modest skiff]

Yeah this is a more elaborated version of my thoughts. I think it takes some serious mental gymnastics to think the anime went THAT rogue for something this important in the show.

[modest skiff]

I don’t think this theory makes much sense tbh. It’s a lot of stretches IMO

[pure raven]

Does octopus sleep?

If he doesn't sleep then black beard indeed has it but if not then this theory is invalid

[modest skiff]

That’s basically the entirety of the theory, octopi don’t sleep normally, neither does BB, and then random number stuff

There are a lot of reasons someone could not sleep. Octopi also not sleeping is nothing remotely close to evidence

And we are already told snow people don’t sleep. We have an easy answer and it’s just grasping to rely on the octopi thing

[pure raven]

in very short stretches, like 30-40 seconds, but they do take long naps sometimes. Then again, oda can stretch stuff.. like heliceratops

[modest skiff]

And just to be clear, Buggy watched BB the entire time. He never slept

[pure raven]

Black beard never sleep, I don't think it would be that much stretched by oda

Also if he does have it really why would he hide it up until now he has no reason for cause with 3 devil fruit he is already on pair or stronger than yonkos
If hiding it by oda himself for intriguing fans then it would be dump from oda in my opinion

[pure raven]

Pretty sure buggy wasn't starting at BB -- buggy surely slept?

[modest skiff]

So here’s what we know:

People in snow areas don’t sleep

BB doesn’t sleep

Octopi have unique sleeping
characteristics and 3 hearts. And since BB's flag has 3 skulls, tada. That’s silly.

In my eyes a lot of the evidence in that theory more so supports my other theory: BB is from a pole. The whole 8 bones and 3 heads thing just isn't compelling enough IMO

[pure raven]

For me, there is 2 logic theory that I tought of and seems to me logical until it's proven wrong :
-he is a person with 3 spirit in one body which imply 3 personalities in one body, so its like this he is born like that : imagine ( twins but born linked by a part of their body like the head or the hands)

conclusion he is born as a triplets with one body not 3 body's.
I hope I explained myself enough if not ask me to clarify this point.
My 2nd theory is black beard when he was a kid before joining white beard, he was modified genetically by a scientist like Vega punk maybe.
so what if he is a cyborg like Kuma and Franky,
Only a cyborg wouldn't need to sleep completely ? We already know that object can have devil fruit power maybe black beard used parts of his body which are not human part to use the
devil fruit of white beard.

I tought of this just right now so I don't have any arguments or evidence if you want I can search more to make it an official theory

@pure raven

[modest skiff]

We don't have any rason to think he has 3 spirits in one body. All we have is his beer preferences in Jaya. I don't buy the cyborg thing because, again, the only evidence is sleep. We already have other mechanisms for not sleeping. He doesn't need to be a robot or a octopus to not sleep. Therefore, nothing from that logic can be used to imply he is an octopus or robot. There are other options.

[pure raven]

For the cyborg there is also the fact he took more than one fruit, a inanimate object can have devil fruit power too

[modest skiff]

An inanimate object can have a fruit and we have no reason an inanimate object can have more than 1 simply by being inanimate

[pure raven]

We have reason to think he has 3 spirit because luffy and zoro sensed it maybe due to having conquerors and said to Nami its not him but they

[sudden patio]

Manga readers

Zoros conqueror haki today was anime only?

[modest skiff]

Where are you saying Luffy and Zoro sensed 3 spirits? Can you cite that please?

[grizzled fog]

Yes

[sudden patio]

What do you think of this move of toei?

[pure raven]

Men it's a conclusion that he has 3 spirit.
They said he is not he but thet which mean multiple person

[modest skiff]

Its only anime confirmed right now but we know the teams talk and we have never seen anything remotely this major be a 1-off from Toei. I think its entirely silly to think they would give Zoro CoC without any regard for the manga. It is too major to just be like "Anime xD" about it. It is likely just a spoiler of sorts.

[modest skiff]

If you show me where this is, I will have an easier time understanding what you are saying. But your description isn't convincing

[sudden patio]

Like i know kaido tells us about zoros haki when he asks him about it

[weary cliff]

That's in reference to the BB crew, not multiple spirits. How would Luffyband Zoro be able to sense that?

[sudden patio]

So like its an early reveal isnt it

[pure raven]

The animation team is in constant contact with Oda so what they did in today's episode was definitely with approval from Oda

[modest skiff]

Yes, this is my take on it. This has precedent. The anime and manga have revealed things in different ways previously

[pure raven]

What description?

[pure raven]

That would be illogical cause they didnt see his crew nor did we.

• the way Nami said what's going on prove more or less that oda is trying to make us feel that there is something not right about black beard

[weary cliff]

The illogical part is that they would be able to pick something like that up in a casual encounter lol

Pretty sure we saw Doc Q and others causing mayhem in Jaya

[sudden patio]

Do you believe zoro used conq h against monnet in punk hazard?

[modest skiff]

Is this before or after he got the yami? After, right?

[pure raven]

Read what Nami said first zoro and luffy talking about black beard only I don't think it's also about his crew but I doubt it, it can be the case who knows its all about how we understand things differently

[pure raven]

Yes after, he was chased by ace at this time. So he already had it

[modest skiff]

Since this is after the Yami, and we know the Yami works as a black hole of sorts, I still believe the Yami has either 1 or more people within it, perhaps even Xebec himself. I think it is more likely that the Yami is the source of additional "souls" rather than BB himself

[pure raven]

He already has it even when luffy was at alabasta

[weary cliff]

Read what Nami says after, too. She picks up on their meaning about his companions. It's pretty black and white. Anyways, this is pre haki Luffy/Zoro. They wouldn't figure Teach out like that when he went undercover on a yonko crew for decades without raising that suspicion

[modest skiff]

I think a lot of the evidence presented is great. I just disagree with what it indicates. I think it is much more likely that the people who live in the poles are similar to octopi for reasons other than being an octopus themselves. Everything shown could also just mean they are similar and it makes sense if they live near them too

[modest skiff]

I'd say this is a conclusive counter argument. There is no conceivable way no one on WB's crew sensed this when no one else did. Unless it came from the Yami

[sand sail]

But we know it's something to do with his body, not the fruit, if it's about how he can hold multiple ones.

What happens at Jaya has nothing to do with anything of it tho

[modest skiff]

We don't know that because the yami was first and it would makes for the yami to be able to "store" things

[sand sail]

But we do know, because that's the indicator we're given. Marco states it's because of something they already knew from long before he had the yami yami.

[pure raven]

Nami supposed what any normal fan would, so it basically Nami talking in place of fans, she ask what we may have asked.
It's pretty smart from oda, + luffy and zoro never responded because I think they themselves don't know the why.
Zoro said probably so it was just a feeling maybe due to conqueror

[modest skiff]

They knew he was physiologically unique in interesting ways. Marco does not say "He can eat lots of fruits"

[pure raven]

Don't forget Shanks scar from BB.

[sand sail]

No, Marco indicates the reason he can have multiple fruits is because of his body being strange.

That's literally the only reason it's mentioned, that is the reason we have to go on so far. It wouldn't really make sense to go from that to the fruit does it all

[modest skiff]

Perhaps you can show me the panel but I remember this being a guess

[weary cliff]

All we really know is that the yami yami was crucial. Could be for having multiple fruits, could be for a future purpose. I don't know if Marco's comment is conclusive. It also read to me like he was just supposing if anyone could do it, it's a weirdo like Teach

[pure raven]

Maybe some Zoan with 3 stomachs?

[modest skiff]

I can't imagine Marco is like "Oh yeah, we know all about his physiology and apparently there are people who can eat lots of fruits"

[sand sail]

No, it's his best guess because that's the difference between Blackbeard and other people

[modest skiff]

Yeah that is a huuuuuge guess. That's not conclusive at all. He even says maybe lol

[sand sail]

That is objectively more concrete than your theory though

[weary cliff]

Again their are no shortage of conquerors with Teach on the WB crew that actually know how to use it and didn't jump to this conclusion

[modest skiff]

Nah, I don't think it is

[sand sail]

It's the actual lead we have in the series

[pure raven]

See they already know he was an od creature lol

[modest skiff]

Marco saying "lol idk" is not conclusive

[sand sail]

Marco blaming Teach's body and not the fruit is conclusive

[pure raven]

Men look what marco said the all crew know something is wrong with black beard in his nature

[sand sail]

Clearly it's not something to do with the yami yami that lets him house multiple fruits if no one's going to think this fruit, which was known in the world, was the reason for it

In fact, I'll go even further.

[modest skiff]

I respect that thought and I won't say you are "wrong", but I will say that I am not convinced. I don't think you really need to convince me, but feel free

[sand sail]

The Yami Yami was known in extreme detail already

This was not a surprise fruit/ability for the world. And yet, no one seems to know exactly why or how Blackbeard can use multiple fruits, and the yami yami has never been used to do so in the past as far as anyone in the world currently seems to know

[pure raven]

Most likely Yami Yami has the power to trap DF Spirit and use it's powers.

[pure raven]

They already know all of them that he is not normal, so maybe like zoro and luffy they felt it due to haki of observation or conqueror

[modest skiff]

I'm not convinced the yami is as high info as you are saying. I think it is possible some people know and they don't want anyone else to know

[sand sail]

Blackbeard learned all about it from a book

[pure raven]

I think it's related to his nature not yami yami

[sand sail]

The same book that Sanji learned about the Clear Clear fruit. Everything Blackbeard knew, he said he'd gotten from that book

[modest skiff]

He learned it exists, and we know the book is incomplete, so we don't know that is all the info. In fact we have reason to think it is incomplete

[sand sail]

Oh no, we know for a fact it's incomplete, not every fruit is in there and not every fruit in there has a picture. The Yami Yami was not one of the fruits in that category, and we know this because that's the only reason Blackbeard formed his entire 20 year plan around it

[weary cliff]

Whatever the reason is, it should be known but also obscure. I think that's the relevance of BB being a history guy. Justification for him uncovering some secret. So even if the fruit is known, it could have a secret property that is less obvious

[weary cliff]

They didn't have haki

[sand sail]

And if it's been catalogued in enough detail that Blackbeard knows exactly what it can do before he even gets it, and in fact pursued the fruit because he knew exactly what it could do before he ever got it, then it seems pretty clear to me that it had a decently length entry in the encyclopedia.

[modest skiff]

Perhaps I am wrong in my understanding. Can you show me where we know BB only learned about the Yami from the book? As I recall, we are shown BB gets info about it, but we do not have reason to think he learned about it for the first time from the book

[exotic echo]

theoretically that book would be something Thatch/other crew members would have communicated about before he planned to eat it as well, which would include Marco presumably

they should have had a vague understanding of the fruit's ability before BB killed thatch and ditched

[sand sail]

It was implied he'd read and memorized it before getting to the crew tho, fats

So they may not have actually ever known themselves

[modest skiff]

Until we know what the book said about it, if we know the books are incomplete, I think its just a question mark

[pure raven]

They didn't know how to use but they have it, that's why I told you they just felt it that something is wrong, luffy despite not knowing how to use haki used conqueror multiple time I just gave a possible explanation of why luffy and zoro felt it not Nami

[ancient vault]

didnt we see thatch talk about the fruit for a bit

[modest skiff]

Thank you, this is kind of what I was getting at. He knew about the Yami pre-WB, right?

[ancient vault]

what a timing

[sand sail]

Yes, he read the book and then formulated his plan to get onto Whitebeard's ship

[weary cliff]

It's a weak explanation. Notice how too even if Marco knew Teach was weird, that's all they say about it. Not that he's some secret multitude of souls

[sand sail]

Or, at the least, he formulated his plan to get onto someone's ship, and Whitebeard was the first pirate who showed up

Which, given Blackbeard, is actually the more likely case lol

[pure raven]

Haki is instinctive

[modest skiff]

And so if I may follow this train of thought: Does that not mean we have reason to think BB came into all of this with extra info? Through some mechanism, BB had a great deal of very uncommon knowledge as a very young child

[pure raven]

Lol luffy and zoro said he was not he.
Its my theory that he is a triplets but with one body due to being born like that

[sand sail]

Yes, because of the book

The point is the book had enough info that Blackbeard went and wrote the rest of his life around it

[modest skiff]

If I can extend beyond our available data: How did he happen upon this book? Where? Sure seems like a unique place. I wonder what else is there. I wonder who had that book and who showed it to BB. Leaves a lot of question marks

This is why I have a really hard time saying anything definitive about BB

[sand sail]

But despite the fruit being so well known that it could be visually identified, no one seems to think it has anything to do with him using two powers. I imagine they'd realize it's with the yami yami that he can steal them at least

[weary cliff]

The book can show up wherever it's convenient. Sanji had access as well

[sand sail]

Sure, those are good questions, we'll probably get some answer to it later

I'm sure it'll end up being a family thing

^ The book seemed available, just hard to get

[modest skiff]

If I may: Do we know the book described more than what it looks like? Is it possible BB knew about the fruit otherwise and then used the book to know what it looks like?

[weary cliff]

I would think the yami yami isn't related to hunting fruits. Burgess feels equipped for that task on Dressrosa by himself

[modest skiff]

@sand sail My memory: The book includes many fruits. Not all. It includes a lot of info about some fruits. For others, it only has the name and the image. No info whatsoever about some fruits. Am I wrong?

[sand sail]

Sure, that's always a possibility. And yes, the book is incomplete, they've only got a few fruits and most don't have pictures

[modest skiff]

So from my perspective, we do not have reason to think the innerworkings of the yami are wide known

[pure raven]

All this debate is based on the supposition that yami yami may be the reason, but if yami yami is indeed the reason why would oda say multiple time that black beard is not normal :
1 luffy and zoro
2 Marco
3 buggy and shanks
Why? If being able to have more than one fruit is due to yami yami whhy oda say all this 123

[modest skiff]

(1) has been disproven earlier in this chat, Griseo. Marco said he was guessing. Buggy and Shanks seem to be implying he is from somewhere special, not that he is an octopus lol

[pure raven]

This doesn't say that it reincarnates into the closest fruit. So, maybe BB can enhance fruits with his
gravity?

[weary cliff]

Isn't winter islanders not sleeping a myth propogated by Luffy on drum island that was immediately shut down?

[sand sail]

Marco's guessing is the most concrete thing we have to go on

And we've got legitimately nothing at all otherwise, we can't just say what if Marco was wrong and introduced an entirely different, kind of unreasonable theory on top

[pure raven]

No, not disproven just your understanding that want it to be like that.
But it's still intriguing for others

• Marco said we know he is odd ( they know its not supposition)
• shanks and buggy said it he never sleep, it's not them saying he is from somewhere special they say he is a monster not octopus

[modest skiff]

Just to directly state my theory:

I think the Yami essentially allows for things to existing in an alternate dimension, similar to the mirror fruit that one girl has, where Luffy and Kata fought.

I think BB can use this power to essentially only use one fruit at a time. He isolates a fruit within the Yami, then uses another fruit. In doing so, he avoids "exploding" as we understand to be what happens when you have 2 fruits.

@sand sail I agree with your assessment of all the info we have

[weary cliff]

I don't know if I take this random pirate as an authority. When Smiley died it went to a pretty close apple. And Caesar seemed to understand that process pretty well to plan for it

[sand sail]

Blackbeard doesn't use the powers one at a time, they're not like locked away and cycled through

He has full access at all times to both

[weary cliff]

BB manifested both powers simultaneously at MF to flex

[modest skiff]

This conflicts with my impression, can you please show me when he uses 2 fruits at the same time?

[sand sail]

Nothing about Jaya has anything to do with this conversation, I can't even keep entertaining that one tbh

Sure, one sec

[modest skiff]

I thought he used them one after the other, not like...BOTH AT ONCE

[pure raven]

He guessed that his od body may explain it. Not thaat he suppose his body is odd, they know for a fact that he isn't normal before having 2 fruit.
Is this how you understand it?

[pure raven]

That's what I also think. He got WB powers moments after he died, so maybe DF's have a spirit of some shorts.

[sand sail]

Yes, Marco's guessing based on Blackbeard just being weird already, and that seems to be the direction we're supposed to think as well

Otherwise, there's no reason to mention it

And mind you, Marco is a doctor. This isn't just some random dude giving a guess

[pure raven]

Gravity of darkness turn things to nothingness so 2nd or 3rd devil fruit if taken by his yami fruit would also turn to nothingness so he would never get it 😅😉

[modest skiff]

Thank you @sand sail Just to be clear, I think the Yami can be used with other fruits since it represents void and absence. I think the Yami is the only fruit that doesn't "count". So in order for my theory to be disproven (I know its not like super important or something, just saying according to my logic), it would need to show 2 different fruits other than yami at the same time

[sand sail]

We have another problem with that theory, though. Blackbeard knew he'd be able to do what he did before he had it

So either he got it out of the book, or someone told him about it, but either way it means someone's actually done it before for sure

[pure raven]

Yes he had the knowledge he can have 2 or 3 so how, indeed

[modest skiff]

Yes and I think he learned this a child. I think he is from somewhere or has family who know a great deal. I think he was after the Yami as a child

[sand sail]

But, it's stated no one else in history has ever achieved this, and to eat two devil fruits has been universally accepted as impossible

[pure raven]

Why wasn't he scared like others

[sand sail]

Which points to it not being about the fruit, but instead about Blackbeard himself and his own knowledge. It could've been a gamble, whatever is up with his body or whatever family thing he has going on could be what does it and no one else has ever known, but if the Yami Yami were a known fruit already, then it being used for that purpose would have to have been known as well

[modest skiff]

I think we have a lot of reason to doubt "history" in One Piece because a lot of things have turned out to be not quite true

[weary cliff]

That's not necessarily a problem. A lot of knowledge becomes lost to time. Granted, that's a remarkable feat so it would have to be VC if it ever happened at all

[sand sail]

Not much has turned out to be untrue, and while we have reason to doubt, there's no reason to doubt this at all. That was stated by the Gorosei to themselves, not trying to convince another party

[modest skiff]

My theory is that BB has had a grand master plan to get lots of fruits since a kid and he knew he needed the Yami to begin that journey. That's why he was laser focused on the Yami. Then once he had that, he could begin his work

[sand sail]

He wanted the yami yami so that he could steal the strongest fruits and be the most powerful person on the planet

[modest skiff]

And just to further elaborate, I think BB ultimately wants to eliminate light on their planet so that the oceans freeze. Once that happens, the people of the poles finally have the whole planet, which I think he is one of

[sand sail]

He needed it first to, I imagine, actually steal the power directly instead of trying to run a lottery

[modest skiff]

Thanks for the conversation everyone. Gotta run, but enjoyed it.

[pure raven]

Or maybe just maybe he is also a cyborg like Franky and Kuma genetically modified before joining white bird when he was still a kid , so he can use his cyborg part to get more fruit. We know that inanimate object can get devil fruit power
Don't forget the germa army and viga punk its possible he may have got the same fate when he was a kid by Vega punk or by another scientist.
Just a theory conclusion not that I say its for sure 😅

[sand sail]

I'd be willing to bet that can't work tho lol

[pure raven]

Lol I love betting

It's been said that Vegapunk will explain everything is need to know about DF. Maybe we'll get some Intel on BB.

[pure raven]

That's when @sand sail will loose the bet 🤣

[pure raven]

Probably.

[sand sail]

The problem is a Paramecia has no will to grant to activate the ability

A zoan being used with an object makes sense, it gives sentience. How is a sword supposed to activate a devil fruit being entirely dead?

[pure raven]

"suck in devil's powers" no phun intended

[pure raven]

It's a good question, but a cyborg part is still linked to black beard and controlled by it, not that his body part will alone activate the power or not

what does this sound effect mean

[sand sail]

Linked to Blackbeard, but it isn't actually his limb

[pure raven]

he just got punched.

[sand sail]

A devil fruit, as far as we've ever seen with activation, relies partially on just visualizing it going. At least in the case of zoan fruit users

How's that supposed to extend to something that is not an actual flesh and blood part of him?

[pure raven]

im confused what gara is here

[pure raven]

I cant argue with that cause I may have to suppose, and I can't write one piece in place of oda, I just concluded he may be a cyborg or genetically modified based on some information we have

we have this and...

this...

I'm pretty sure BB is not HUMAN just like Kaido or King.

Kaido is refereed to as a "beast" iirc

fitting for beast pirates, but also never calls him human

[sand sail]

Kaido seems to be completely human, and Blackbeard as well

The scar across shanks's eye was a weapon he used to use

[pure raven]

All the "evil" beasts / monsters have this "we > humans" power complex, in most animes.

[ancient vault]

5% ancient giant, oni Kaido

[pure raven]

that is true, it's what seems to be the case, but there's non human traits and hints of them being different

[pure raven]

My god, how in the name of god ya got this hint.

?

[weary cliff]

It was shown a bunch in flashbacks

[pure raven]

BB used a claw. I completely missed it.

yeah it's not obvious

this is from volume 96 @pure raven

[pure raven]

This really blows my mind. I have 0 interest for BB is a chimera or monster theories now.

oh you thought that scar was from like a monster claw? lol

Yeah. Like a bear or something with 2-3 heads or stomacks.

understandable

It's well known that the scar is due to black beard attack, shanks himself said that to white beard if I remember loool

[modest skiff]

Yeah but it doesn’t explain how he got so strong. It didn’t seem like he was much faster than ace when they fought. Felt more like BB just hugely outsmarted Ace. BB landing a hit like that on Shanks shows us BB has something hidden

[pure raven]

When Shanks asked WB to call ace back.

Who knows if it aches really his body or his mind

If it aches his body then something is not right, intriguing

[pure raven]

Ace was a Logia and he was relaying his power a bit too much. When BB started to "turn him back into a normal human" he kinda lost his hand.

the scar aching is symbolic of black beard's ferocity and shanks grudge against him

it's like if someone you really hate

[pure raven]

Yes that's what i meant by aches his mind, but I said we can also suppose that it hurt his body, and if thats true then it would be interesting

stabbed your back years ago, you will say this scar still aches because of this person

I think Oda has a problem with people that relay on DF powers too much. Kaido told luffy "Gomu Gomu Nooo... worororo. You found a weapon and now you think you're unstoppable?"

[modest skiff]

BB specifically said Ace is stronger than most logias and that he was impressed, right?

[pure raven]

They were enemys not a back stab?

it was an example

just trying to explain what I meant

[modest skiff]

Yeah that’s fair

[cedar sinew]

a scar aching in that context is a common expression

doesn't really mean it physically hurts

[pure raven]

Strong as a logia, but no impressive haki that a commander of white beard should have

[pure raven]

Yeah, but ACE wasn't used to physical damage. And on that field, BB is more powerfull.

[cedar sinew]

he was though

he didn't have a fruit for the majority of his life

people overplay his dependence on his fruit and ignore his monstrous strength

[pure raven]

He didn't show signs of HAKI, so probably that's why he needed Yami~Yami. A "haki like DF".

[grizzled fog]

We already know he has haki

[pure raven]

Ace?

[grizzled fog]

No, Blackbeard

[pure raven]

Maybe he didn't before the time skip, but after got it?

But, I think hes the 1st person to use the fruit in such a way in order to gain 2 powers. Remember BB crew said "We have to dismantle if he fails". Just like Zoro said that if Luffy didn't had COC they would've to look for another capt. 😂

[modest skiff]

BB was specifically saying Ace has great physical strength and that it makes him unique from other Logia users

[grizzled fog]

I see no reason to believe it only got it after the ts

And it’s not as though ace forgot what it was like to be hit or something. Dude was a logia but he was also on the crew of the strongest man. He most definitely got hit plenty

[modest skiff]

I can’t imagine Ace not learning haki as a member of WB upper echelon of crew. It would make zero sense

[pure raven]

But, BB had more.

[grizzled fog]

Even if he had a busted fruit that made up for that?

[cedar sinew]

he never shows coa

in places where he should've

[pure raven]

It does make zero sense, if he had haki, I think even without his devil fruit he wouldn't loose against Bb at that time

[modest skiff]

Yes, so long as other members of the crew have haki and it’s clearly useful, someone of Ace’s rank not knowing Haki would be incredibly weird

[exotic echo]

That theory up earlier which says BB has the Kraken zoan

I cannot express how much I hate it and also love it

[pure raven]

Like in the back when someone punches you with a lava fist?

[pure raven]

I just hate it

[cedar sinew]

yes

[cedar sinew]

oda didn't have a clear concept of haki at that time. That's just it

[grizzled fog]

Again. Ace was a monster with just his fruit and physical abilities alone, no one is saying that he would never have learnt it, eventually he would’ve, but he was already strong enough to be a commander without it lol. Didn’t need it at the time

[cedar sinew]

if he were to write the story again I'm sure there'd be more indications of Ace with haki

[grizzled fog]

I loved it until I realized it would probably require BB to be capable of swimming. No thanks

[pure raven]

I think he had the concept it was just too complicated and big of a factor that he didn't want to introduce it before going to the new world where luffy would have gotten stronger and would have to power up

[exotic echo]

I think it's actually the most creative 3 fruit theory I've seen for him out of any, so it deserves credit where it's due. But I also hate those just because of how prevalent and annoying they have been for years and years and years of being an OP fan

[modest skiff]

Ace had no viable way of punching kizaru. @cedar sinew you are totally right. The real thing is haki didn’t exist. We need to accept that.

This is a silly discussion because we are trying to rewrite one piece.

[tired osprey]

just have him being on of those land octopuses like the one in strong world

[grizzled fog]

It did exist lol

Haki absolutely existed and was present in Marineford. Even a bit earlier.

[modest skiff]

Oh yeah no I meant the Alabasta stuff

[cedar sinew]

haki was present in bits and pieces but it was never fleshed out

[grizzled fog]

Back then? Probably a very basic idea sure, not yet implemented

[pure raven]

Can BB absorb COC or armament haki too? 🤔

[modest skiff]

I thought we were talking about if Ace had Haki when he was hunting BB during Alabasta. My apologies @grizzled fog

[pure raven]

Shanks stopped akainu marco fought kizaro so it did exist and more...

[cedar sinew]

probably not

that sounds counter intuitive

[pure raven]

• skypea people had mantra haki did exist before time skip men

So basically if you coat yourself like luffy does in G4 he can't take away their powers? 🤔

[modest skiff]

I’m talking current form of haki; the whole Logia buster dynamic

[pure raven]

For logia, even sea stone as gauntlet would be as good as haki lol.😏
Oda lack imagination 😂

[exotic echo]

fuck it, I'm on board with the Kraken thing after a bit of thought. Why not? BB would basically be fucking Cthulhu

[cedar sinew]

coc was pretty well utilized from the very beginning of the series. Obs only existed in Skypia, but you can always attribute people's figthing instincts to obs. CoA was shown in bits and pieces but never fleshed out. We see Zoro using it to cut Mr1 and the Admirals stopping WB, Sentomaru using it, and some indications of it technically being present in MF even thoughh it's never explicitly shown or clarified

[pure raven]

Why?

[pure raven]

Each tentacle can use a fruit? That would be OP.

[exotic echo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/oqu2io/blackbeards_secret_hes_an_octopus_tako_tako_no_mi/ No

[grizzled fog]

Kraken is such a classic and iconic sea monster it’d be great as a fruit. But I REALLY don’t want the no swimming rule to be broken

[exotic echo]

It's just a fun theory. I actually like this one so much more than all the other BS theories about him

[pure raven]

Why start it again 😭

[exotic echo]

Oh, yeah nah. Fuck that. He can just do like Surume did at FMI and waddle around

[grizzled fog]

lmao

[modest skiff]

Me too. If a kraken could swim, we’d have tons of other stuff by now

[exotic echo]

Griseo???

[pure raven]

Fkk

[cedar sinew]

is this really relevant lol

[pure raven]

Sorry I wanted to send another picture lol I miss clicked

[exotic echo]

Not even CLOSE to relevant lmfao Mai

Checking the comments and his fucking birthday is 8/3

[pure raven]

This one 😭

[exotic echo]

I might actually be sold on it

[cedar sinew]

I find it funny that some theories try extremely hard to catch the most minute details and put them as like one of the main reasons

I like the flag match though

[exotic echo]

Yeah, it's like... That's totally unnecessary lol, the other information as it stands was enough for a decent theory

[modest skiff]

We have seen too many patterns used in various places for us to care about this IMO

[cedar sinew]

his pants just look like leaves

[pure raven]

This is cute, BB can have 3 fruits theory.

[grizzled fog]

Ugh anything but kaido’s fruit. I never want to see that dragon again after wano

[pure raven]

He shoots beams. Why hate?

[exotic echo]

I like Kaido's fruit but I do not think it will be reused

[fleet echo]

apparently there's a theory that says Nami is the ancient weapon uranus? I mean granted, Belle Mere/Nojiko found baby Nami in the ruins of Oykot, but that's about it?

[cedar sinew]

it's too distinct to be reused, it'd feel repetitve

[pure raven]

Rember that other Yonko? With that bara bara fruit?

[pure raven]

We we know where she found Nami?

[fleet echo]

extra evidence seem far fetched like pointing how uranus symbol looks similar to nami's tattoo and that apparently (another baseless theory) Uranus has the power to control the weather itself

[modest skiff]

One thing we know about Nami is that she really does understand weather in a way that is totally unmatched. She learned a lot in the sky lands but her intuition and instinct is totally unmatched IMO. But Sanji has a similar level of distinctiveness in cooking. We don’t have reason to think she’s special other than hair color

[pure raven]

Shirahoshi posseidon, vivi is in my opinion relates to pluton not thaat she is herself maybe some blood link to activate it,
So yeah I think uranus would probably be also a human a women also maybe, and as uranus is related to the sky and Nami is interested in sky climate so what if...

[tired osprey]

same, its simple and its fitting with an octopus/kraken theme

[cedar sinew]

also on the kraken theory, after having fully read it again, I like it more than most other BB theories. Flag comparison is great and the north pole connection (which always gets brought up) has another layer to it from the Hody comment which is good. No idea if Oda legitimately planned that, but considering how BB first gets mentioned in Drum Island and Luffy's comment about sleep is there, maybe it is intentional. Biological RNA editing or whatever is pretty sketchy, don't care enough to fact check but Oda never seems to go super bio/science in depth when explaining powers. They're all pretty self explanatory. Luffy's G2 might be the most complex thing we've gotten. So idk if that biological explanation matches up with Oda's style, also being able to change your body structure freely sounds extremely OP beyond the 2 DFs thing. Sleep also doesn't really match up because Octopus do sleep, but that can be somewhat easily be attributed to the mythological aspect. On a side note would be great if this kraken theory connects up with the 3 eyed tribe theory, since they have similar points shared.

[modest skiff]

I’m more inclined to think Nami is from a sky island rather than a weapon

[fleet echo]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Oykot_Kingdom

[pure raven]

And where is that? East Blue?

[fleet echo]

yeah, but it was a destroyed kingdom

[real marten]

Do you expect any more of the sh pirates to awaken haki in wano?

[modest skiff]

Personally I see nothing to support Kraken exclusively. Every piece of evidence can support another theory too.

[fleet echo]

Nami/Nojiko seem to be the only survivors?

[cedar sinew]

the flag heavily supports it

[pure raven]

WHAT IF, WHAT IF, NAMI IS A QUEEN?

[cedar sinew]

basically the BB theory requirements are

1. flag
2. sleep
3. 2 dfs
4. north pole

theories like the cerberus theory only support one

[fleet echo]

not in wano, but usopp getting conqueror's haki in the future (elbaf?) because he lied so in the fishman island

[cedar sinew]

and even at that kraken is a better match

[exotic echo]

Absolutely. It's easily the best one I've seen. I guess it's been around for a little while (few years) but I hadn't seen it before since I don't really dig for theories or follow OPtube or anything

I would legitimately be happy to see Oda go with a classic Kraken as the pitboss of BB's arc

Or what essentially becomes some Cthulhu-esque abomination in tandem with the Yami Yami & Gura Gura

[cedar sinew]

and like, if I'm being honest every theory that tries to justify 2 dfs is either
a) simple and ridiculous like having 2 hearts = 2 dfs, or stomach, or some random body part
b) super biological. Like the chimera twin theory, or the kraken one

[real marten]

Usopp getting conquerors seems like a bit much.

[fleet echo]

well... it's a ruined kingdom. if she was a heir, her only subject would be... Nojiko? Besides, while she's greed personified, I don't think she'd like the idea of being stuck in a kingdom

[cedar sinew]

A for me feels like a copout, and B kinda goes against oda's style. So it's super hard for me to find a theory that I geuinely believe in after all these years

[fleet echo]

yes, but usopp's lies always come true, one way or another

[real marten]

Ig

I really want Choppers Haki to awaken

[pure raven]

I'm pretty sure that DF's have a spirit that gives the user its powers and by capturing that spirit into a black hole you can use it's power by releasing tiny parts of it or by lowering the gravitational pull.

[fleet echo]

or... blackbeard is built different from the start

[pure raven]

Look at how ODA pictured the "spirit" leaving the body. Has same symboll as DF + wings.

[cedar sinew]

I'm pretty much convinced it has to be a zoan just to fit the parallels and since Oda DOES like doing that. Maybe I'll look into the dna stuff later, but atm I like it a lot too yeah. Maybe it connects to BB being an awakened 3 eye too since

1. poles could be their origination
2. his interest in poneglyphs
3. was mentioned for a reason but we never see it again after Pudding
4. potentially explains the sleep aspect to make the kraken biology stuff less of a stretch

[fleet echo]

3 eyes blackbeard? lemme check something

[cedar sinew]

oh and 5) never takes off his headband

I don't actually know if 5 is completely true

but last time this convo was around nobody came up with a picture

[exotic echo]

Has he really never taken it off???

[fleet echo]

Yeah, blackbeard's forehead is either covered by a bandana or a hat or both

[cedar sinew]

I don't know, but if he has then this theory is bust lol. I haven't seen it tho myself

[exotic echo]

He does need a way to get to Laugh Tale, and his interests line up... I've always felt their conflict would potentially be there, too. Would feel very "Oda-esque" for them to have the final showdown at the final place

[waxen dust]

Burgess or Blackbeard with the third eye would be interesting

[cedar sinew]

random picture I got but he's wearing something even there lol

[fleet echo]

Imagine the brute of blackbeard's crew being ironically the smartest and most enlightened

[exotic echo]

I kind of feel like we've seen a good bit of his forehead, but hell, we'll see I guess.

[waxen dust]

Blackbeard having a third eye would also mean he has a personality disorder because Pudding has one and is third eye.

[exotic echo]

You'd think this would be something that shows enough of his forehead

[tired osprey]

oi, another blackbeard 3 eyes believer

[tired osprey]

yeah its a common trope for three eyed people

[cedar sinew]

the thing is he's always shown wearing SOMETHING

so the intention is there

[exotic echo]

Oli, what? Within OP?

[tired osprey]

in general

[modest skiff]

Wait what’s this from and what is it saying

[exotic echo]

& yeah Mai regardless of some tiny bits of art, I think it can still work

[waxen dust]

Blackbeard with third eye + VOAT likely means he can read the poneglyphs alone

[modest skiff]

My theory is that Yami creates a second dimension similar to the mirror fruit. I think the Yami was a necessary first step to having other fruits

[cedar sinew]

he doesn't even need voat

[fleet echo]

also shirahoshi and vivi are basically nami lookalikes with different hair/hair color

[tired osprey]

i think it could explain him not sleeping and eating multiple dfs too somehow

[exotic echo]

You'd think he would have harassed Luffy or been more active hunting Robin down or something if he didn't have his own way already. But I guess that sort of goes for all of the emperors, anyway...

[waxen dust]

Everyone thinks BB will kidnap Robin, but it’s definitely a red herring by Oda. Or BM will be the one to take her

[pure raven]

It's from dressrosa.

[modest skiff]

Yes and my theory is that he read an informational glyph in his home in a pole and that’s how he knew about that Yami and also why he started his journey. But maybe learned about Yami otherwise

[waxen dust]

Insomnia is a side effect for Personality Disorder

[tired osprey]

in some other mangas/animes, the three eyed people have multiple characters inside them, hence their personality disorder, that could explain BBs weird features if each character can have one devil fruit, and if they take turn sleeping

[modest skiff]

I think a glyph at the pole gave pole people a lot of reason to hate the ocean. If the Yami eats the sun, the ocean freezes. Pole people get the whole planet. GG

[fleet echo]

"schyzophrenia lets you eat more devil fruits"

[modest skiff]

If soul or spirit or whatever played any role it couldn’t be in inanimate objects

[waxen dust]

BB reminds me of a villain from Yu Yu Hakusho, he also has multiple personalities and it allowed him to power up faster because of it. Think it’s the same thing with BB.

[waxen dust]

I like to believe Xebec had some influence on BB’s actions because we need an explanation on why he named his ship after him. But possibly a ponglyph could be wherever Teach comes from.

[modest skiff]

One of my rough theories is that Xebec was still in the Yami when BB ate it. So when BB suddenly had access to the void dimension in the yami, he found xebec, and he has been using Xebec's info throughout this process. I don't feel super confident in that theory. I feel more confident he got all his info from his home world in the poles.

My theory is that the pole people have a robust society similar to Wano. They are not struggling over at the poles. They just wish they had more ice land to use, which is why BB wants to eat the sun using the yami

During the whole Xebec vs Garp/Roger thing, I think that's why they banded together. Potentially Xebec was also trying to freeze the planet, which is why they banded together. Rather than letting himself be defeated, he ate himself using the yami rather than being captured. He let his journey be paused until someone else ate his fruit

[waxen dust]

The first theory makes more sense especially since Yami is known as a Black space dimension, it’s actually a playing card in YuGiOh. I definitely think Xebec and BB have a way to communicate or had done so at one point because of the Yami Yami fruit and inherited will plays a factor in some manner.

[modest skiff]

Which theory is the first one?

i also think it is possible Xebec left a bunch of stuff in the yami, like a journal. So perhaps Xebec really is dead and its just that BB has access to Xebec's weapon's chest.

Perhaps Xebec had a blade and it was called the saber of Xebec. Maybe BB found it in the yami and he enjoyed the idea of naming his ship after it. There's tons of totally baseless theories I could think of

[ancient vault]

Doubt rocks had the yami

[modest skiff]

yeah i'm also not entirely convinced the yami was xebec's, mainly because it feels too obvious

[dusky acorn]

The jolly roger comparison for the Kraken theory was my favourite part. Going a step beyond the 3 skulls everyone already talks about and deciphering the exactly 8 bones as representing tentacles sort of blew my mind

It's a good theory, but one thing I question is Blackbeard's spirit animal. If he already had any sort of Zoan, why isn't his symbolic animal that already? Oda is entirely consistent with this and Zoan users as far as I know. He said Drake represents an Allosaur and Marco a phoenix, in the new vivre card

And yet, Blackbeard is supposed to be a hippo. It's a minor thing, but something I don't feel like I can just gloss over

[tired osprey]

its like Jinbe, he is a whaleshark fishman but his spirit animal is bear.

[dusky acorn]

Ah nice. I'd say that's good enough of an example to put a hole in the consistency of this sort of thing then, yeah

[tired osprey]

the spirit animal is more supposed to match their personality and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with their abilities.

also im completely sure if hippo being blackbeards spirit animal is canon or not, i can only remember it coming from the animal figure line

oh its canon

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_95

[tired osprey]

in the same sbs though

Drake: Gentiana, Allosaurus

[dusky acorn]

Yep lmao. But it's fine, as you proved it's not enough to debunk the theory in of itself. Oda may as well be giving Bb a generic animal that's easily believable for us to think it would fit him

Then later flip the tables by either giving him a Zoan, or secretly already having one

[tired osprey]

if we already had a major character with an octopus theme id be against it

but we dont really have that, we have a few minor characters but i dont think that hurts it

also, octopus is like one of the very few zoans i could see working and fitting with BBs pirate theme

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, it just sorta feels like an evil creature. And the original theorist in the reddit post brought up a good rebuttal with dragons already being relevant in Punk Hazard, before we learned about Kaido's fruit.

And surume, the kraken we do know, didn't have huuge relevance, I think his is comparable to those dragons at best, so it's totally fair game for someone to have the fruit rn

(Especially with fish fish models being a thing now)

[tired osprey]

and to keep the mythical zoan being japanese:y like id say all of them are, rather than a kraken fruit it could be a Koromodako fruit

reminds me of BBs black hole

[dusky acorn]

Man, this is epic

[modest skiff]

What feels more likely to me is that BB’s people as a whole are kraken’ish and it is a part of why he wanted the Yami

[dusky acorn]

You know the best part about Blackbeard potentially having a Zoan like this is the huge size he would have, like Big Mom and Kaido. I'd really want him to feel like them in how menacing their statures are

And then Shanks would turn out as the only normal human sized Yonko in battle, out of the current ones

[tired osprey]

I like this theory because its... simple. it explains everything and all of it makes sort of sense and is okey, no need for all that other BS like multiple souls or whatever

maybe some would say it would be a rip off from pirates of the caribbean, but who knows.. maybe oda came up it with earlier than them

[modest skiff]

Souls never made sense due to inanimate objects

[tired osprey]

i still dont understand what you mean by that

[modest skiff]

Inanimate objects can use devil fruits. You can give a sword a devil fruit. If swords have souls, ok, it can need a soul. If not, devil fruits are unrelated to biology

[tired osprey]

ah ok

[ancient vault]

kaido also got these bones

[queen arrow]

didn't we have 2?

[dusky acorn]

Well, there goes a fair amount of strength that existed for this specific piece of evidence

I still like it though

[queen arrow]

Hatchan and Hyouzou

[ancient vault]

Me and jugol I think talked about these bones once forgot what it was about

[tired osprey]

when im thinking of major characters its someone like a main villain etc

[modest skiff]

If we know there were 8 notable members of the Rocks pirates, this feels like further evidence Kaido's whole motivation probably isn't entirely selfish. 8 bones on both Kaido and BB's ship is the clue, not the fact that octopi also have 8 of something. I feel like we have gotten plenty of clues that Kaido and BB both have hidden objectives. Seeing they both likely have a similar allegiance also makes sense

One possibility I don't think people are accounting for: BB may be loyal to someone who is loyal to Xebec. I still just feel like there are all sorts of hints of Xebec's plans not ending with his "death"

[errant nova]

BB somehow got Rocks’ logbook

[modest skiff]

Something like that. I don't think I would disagree too badly with BB's plans, probably same with Xebec. The vagueness around the situation of Xebec makes it sound ethically ambiguous. I still think he had a way to kill the CDs but it would have caused a ton of other innocent death and that's why Roger/Garp teamed up.

[ember trench]

Issue is that it goes beyond killing CDs. Xebec wanted to be king of the world. Roger also had to protect the CD’s slaves.

He wasn’t a good guy out to free the world, he was pursuing his own ambition.