manga-theories

[ornate spindle]

Makes no sense

Is Bonney an old lady?

[supple magnet]

Probably not but with her powers she could be

Also people who want immortality should seek out bonnys fruit instead of laws

[ornate spindle]

If anyone pass in the ultimate laws df skill, he will be immortal at all? Like had a gunshot in the heart?

Bonnye will die in this conditions

[supple magnet]

When did law get shot in the heart

Also laws fruit gives him the ability to make an immortal not become one

[warm narwhal]

Probably they did, that Akainu said He was surprised that she escape the government, and became a pirate. It could’ve happened years ago to make Kuma part of the revolutionary army. Because the government kidnapped his sister or wife or mom?

[supple magnet]

Are you saying that Bonney is kumas sister or mom?

[warm narwhal]

It’s one of the possibilities, i’m not 100%

Maybe daughter

[orchid meteor]

kuma was a king right?

or a ruler

[warm narwhal]

Likely a ruler who recently took over the country. Because early years photo he look like he was poor. Likely grew up to be a tyrant like they say

[pallid blade]

Man

When spoilers

[lunar whale]

Few hours if not probably tomorrow

[void sable]

I think the blackbeard arc will have some jewellery bonney connection. It could also lead to the flashbacks of bonney-kuma-blackbeard

[light pond]

Yes

[teal bay]

I mean how she reacts looking at kuma in reverie states that there is some kinda relation between them. Plus they both are from same kingdom the kingdom where kuma was king

[pure raven]

So what is tthe wano timeline do we have any ?

From kinemom and other planming at zou to raids start?

[fallow knot]

Maybe the lurking legend is xebec's right hand man.oda didn't tell us about his crew yet

[merry sentinel]

? context pls

[light pond]

What do u mean context? He asked if kuma was once a king/ruler, I said yes

[merry sentinel]

who did he rule? what was his kingdom

:(

[teal bay]

It was a kingdom starting with S lemme look it up rq

[light pond]

Have u even read the manga he is the former king of sorbet kingdom

[merry sentinel]

im caught up with the manga and anime

but i did skip a few chapters because i already watched it

[merry sentinel]

when did it say he ruled sorbet kingdom

[teal bay]

Yes sorbet thank you.also it's even in anime also

[merry sentinel]

OHHHH I Remember thisss nvm nvm thanks lads i was confused at first

[light pond]

Reverie there is even a scene there where bonney infiltrates the reverie as the queen dowager of sorbet kingdom

[teal bay]

You should see each and every detail clearly

[merry sentinel]

yyup yup thanks gonna look at it again

[light pond]

Bonney definitely related to kuma

[teal bay]

Yeah and that is why I think they somehow related

[light pond]

Bonney probably kuma's daughter

[teal bay]

Also this @light pond

[teal bay]

Can't be sure cuz she can use the fruit power can be mom,wife or daughter

[light pond]

Her age was 24 in sbs

[teal bay]

Daughter it is then ig

[snow herald]

Why does she need to be blood related. Fooking hell mate

[fathom matrix]

yet again, Oda could have maybe lied or skewed it be like she's 24 NOW, but when she manipulates her age, she can be any age she wants.

[light pond]

Just said sbs says 24

[fathom matrix]

True, maybe she just looks like the spitting image of the queen/grandma when she was younger and so when she grows up, she looks like her in her old age

[cyan berry]

no, Oda said her age based on appearance is 24

we dont actually know how old she is

[teal bay]

well if this case i will say it again that she can be her mom , wife or daughter

[cyan berry]

also @drowsy marsh no other series spoilers here

[muted ember]

Okay so this is kind of a weird one. Are we to assume she's never done the aging on herself, to go from 87 year old grandma to young teen / adult.

[cyan berry]

gonna need to ask you to reiterate that because i have no idea what this means

[muted ember]

Okay, how old do you think she is?

Because i'm pretty confident she's just gonna forever be 24

[teal bay]

if she can make herself younger or make her look older ofc she uses aging

[cyan berry]

we don't know how her fruit works, or if it makes her immortal

[muted ember]

Then isn't the most logical solution to just assume, that she's "aging" mentally, but she'll always look 24.

[teal bay]

i dont know about immortality but all i am saying is that she can be using her fruit to inc. or dec. her age

[cyan berry]

but we've seen her completely change her age multiple times

we've seen her turn into a child and an old woman

[muted ember]

but there has to be a "reset" point, right? Like a "normal" state.

I'd just assume the form we usually see her in, his her "normal" age.

[cyan berry]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[teal bay]

we cany say anything if she has any normal age or not

[cyan berry]

she might just prefer the 24 year old form because it's more convenient or something

we do not know her actual age

[teal bay]

what if that old is her original form

[muted ember]

Yeah, at this point you can only assume. I think her "normal" state is the one we first see her in though.

[last void]

Isn't there a Theory About Bonney x Ace?

Dk much tho lol

[teal bay]

we cant assume her normal age if you want her normal ages then say 24 cuz sbs says so

[muted ember]

I'd think its more a "mental age" then physical age. Even as that 88 year old grandma old person, she's still the normal 24 year old.

Atleast that's what I assume it is.

[last void]

Funny how Luffy is the Youngest,yet Strongest out of all of them

[cyan berry]

except chad apoo

[last void]

Apoo cringe

[teal bay]

just for fact sake people can think like mature even when they are not adult just cuz of the things they have experienced and some old people cant think maturely so using the term "mental age" is wrong instead use the term "appearance age" is more preferred

[last void]

He is just smart at Catching People Off guard

Zoro literally Destroyed him

[muted ember]

Damn, good point.

[teal bay]

i agree he just saw that they dont know how his power works if they knew there was no chance he could harm them

i read it somewhere that Oda said that the fruit was a success it is just momo who cant control it properly

[cyan berry]

yeah momo says he's gotten better at controlling it

[marsh warren]

woah, Law and everyone above are really tall

[teal bay]

if this happens gives another reason for him to not join strawhats

[teal bay]

yeah like when luffy got his fruit he was not abele to control powers properly but after practice and training he can use it anyway he wants as we see now

[muted ember]

just noticed, nice pfp.

[supple nimbus]

hmmm, but I don't think vegapunk would leave a successful artificial df, esp one made from Kadio's df, which is SCARY powerful.

[vestal rampart]

there’s prob an exception

like maybe the fact that he can’t rly control it. if you remember correctly, kaku, the cp9 agent was able to control his right away

or maybe some other exception idk

[muted ember]

Just saw another tweet about "Korean leaker not giving today"

[teal bay]

i mean people do say that he doesnt wanna work with WG and is forced to so ofc he would not let anyone get hands on it that was why it was rumored to fail and thrown

[muted ember]

people weird

[teal bay]

and he is a trained assassin not a 7 yr old kid and he had issues too

[vestal rampart]

lmaoo yea. there is prob smth it can do that kaido’s cant though i’d imagine

[teal bay]

like when fighting zoro he wanted the hybrid form but changed to a complete giraffe

[vestal rampart]

oh yea

[teal bay]

that can be looked into using google and japanese relations or theories regarding dragons like kaido is a dragon tranformed from koi what if momo is original dragon like one slayed long time ago

[vestal rampart]

i’ve heard about stuff like that^

[swift fox]

Yamato's devil fruit theory:
I wanna talk about yamato's devil fruit, I think it's being able to do telepathy for people. This power is very viable for communication if he joins the strawhats. And you ask, why do I think his power is telepathy? It might be possible that he told it to luffy about his power, that's why luffy can talk to momonosuke while unconscious. But, why would luffy talk to momo if he hasn't heard anything about momo being able to hear other people's thoughts? I know Oda won't do an asspull like that. Yamato can be the valid excuse why Luffy can talk directly to momo. And this ability is a very useful to the strawhats other than being a brawler.

[brazen notch]

i think yamato s fruit is a mythical zoan and there is also a scene with sasaki that he show him her teeth..its a hint i think

[swift fox]

Welp there goes my theory lol

[thick sky]

Luffy specifically mentioning Momo and talking to him is suspicious yes...

[supple nimbus]

That's a good point, it would be a pain if it fell into the hands of the govt.

[supple nimbus]

It's a zoan, asides from the panel showing her teeth, it's been the general trend for those associated with the beast pirates.

[teal bay]

it has nothing to do with DF power its their VOAT acting up

[muted ember]

its a sabertooth, so that instantly tells us that it's a sabertooth animal.

What type? God knows. Could be a lion, a cheetah, leopard, tiger, anything.

[thick sky]

Zoans can have telepathic abilities too, Mythical Zoans

[teal bay]

who's who is a sabertooth so definitely not sabertooth

[thick sky]

https://non-aliencreatures.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Telepathic_Creatures

[muted ember]

Sabertooth is a "category" of species.

They're animals, that have saberteeth.

[teal bay]

yes sabertooth tiger

[supple nimbus]

Most theories have Yamato's df be a Byakko

[thick sky]

VOAT doesn't allow his voice to be heard by Laws crew

[muted ember]

it could be any of these.

[teal bay]

his VOAT is too strong that they felt they could hear him

[coral zinc]

yamato df is a cat

[thick sky]

Well popular doesn't mean ut must be that

[supple nimbus]

Mythical tiger thingy and even many illustrations I've seen of them have a resemblance to Yamato's color scheme.

[coral zinc]

yamato for catgirl 2021

[supple nimbus]

You just want a cat girl in the crew don't you?

[teal bay]

can be related to cheetah considering how fast Yamato is

[coral zinc]

nya~

[tribal salmon]

Can king fly with his wings without his transformation

[swift fox]

Yamato could be a bug zoan. Insects uses signals to understand eachotber

[muted ember]

Plausible.

[supple nimbus]

cheetah feels lame tho

[thick sky]

No

[muted ember]

It can not be a bug. Bugs don't have saberteeth.

[thick sky]

We have seen their teeth

[teal bay]

how is cheetah lame and you wont say same if ist in front of you. he is the fatsest mf animal on land

[thick sky]

Cheetah's lame compared to ancient and mythical zoans

[coral zinc]

aight, on second thought, it could be a white tiger

or an albino sabretooth

im dead sure it'll be white tho

[teal bay]

guessing from his clothes??

[muted ember]

It can be any saberteeth animal, that DOESNT already exist.

[coral zinc]

and even hair

[brazen notch]

any1 has a theory about heart pirates and how can they hear luffy's "voice"?

[coral zinc]

luffy can telepathically communicate

[simple brook]

Luffy is a ancient weapon

Luffy is the second coming of Joy Boy

[brazen notch]

yeh i mean, i thought the voice thing power must be aquired by both to communicate

[coral zinc]

if luffy's an ancient weapon, his strength would be to create friends, not communicate telepathically.

[brazen notch]

it seems the one having communicate with others that dont have it..they just cant answer back..thats what i understand

[coral zinc]

his telepathy is something he acquired

or he was screaming fucking loud lmao

[simple brook]

Maybe all that observation haki plus being the chosen one

[daring crater]

Maybe Yamato himself isn’t aware of the fact that he is a df user, considering he wore those cuffs his entire life ?

[sand robin]

Luffy and momo can talk each other coz both have VOAT ability

[thick sky]

How can he talk with laws crew then?

[coral zinc]

nah, yamato is def aware. he can trans(form) at will

[teal bay]

well it can be a trex

[thick sky]

Yeah

[coral zinc]

it could be a housecat too? i mean a trap catgirl would be nice in the team

[thick sky]

Would feel anticlimatic

[muted ember]

Yamato doesnt feel like a trex to me.

[simple brook]

Yamato is female, destined to be sanji queen

[muted ember]

Uh oh.

[teal bay]

i got somepics too prove that but just a theory

[muted ember]

🚪 🚶‍♂️

[teal bay]

this photo and this photo

[obsidian edge]

The way I see it, luffy was yelling so loud in the water that he projected with the VOAT but lawn's crew just heard him screaming underwater

[coral zinc]

it wouldnt be audible tho

[muted ember]

I mean yeah, but they're sharp teeth. called canines. Almost every cat animal has those.

[obsidian edge]

Yeah idk what's up with that part

[coral zinc]

i highly doubt a t-rex would create a "grrr" sound effect

[teal bay]

Trex is extinct and matches beast pirate theme

[simple brook]

Have u ever seen a T. rex?

[coral zinc]

and look, it has hunting teeth.

[coral zinc]

did you?

[teal bay]

😐

[thick sky]

In movies 😎

[simple brook]

Then what do u want it to sound like

[coral zinc]

j-jurassic park

[teal bay]

they used turtles having sex sounds and used some mods to sound it like that

[pure raven]

If you think about it, it definitely is possible because kaido is a fish and cats eat fish. So instead of. The dragon vs byakko theories a cat vs fish sounds more possible at this point

[coral zinc]

tbh, i just thought it would be cool to have a catgirl on the team but you are making a lot of sense

[simple brook]

Cougar cat or bobcat?

[pure raven]

I don’t think it’s either of those because those cats have a gap between their canine teeth and the middle teeth

[coral zinc]

thats the traditional sound accepted worldwide. oda just wouldnt skip all that. and look yamato's teeth, its definitely not of a t-rex

[simple brook]

Like me hehe xd

[coral zinc]

more like a sabretooth

[teal bay]

you are just fixated on having a catgirl no sense if i get right point you wont accept them

[coral zinc]

nah, just by looking at his teeth, you can clearly tell it's of someone in the cat family

[pure raven]

Isn’t drake already a t rex? I don’t think oda would copy and paste a df for a character that seems to be important in the long run

[coral zinc]

wait, how tf can i upload a photo

[swift fox]

!roles

[teal bay]

get roles in #old-role-info

[coral zinc]

ahh

[pure raven]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[teal bay]

allosaurus

[pseudo citrus]

so far all of the mythical zoans have had special abilities that go with them, i.e.:
marco - healing
kaido - bolo breath
catarina devon - clone
orochi - extra lives?
if yamato/someone really is byakko, what extra/special powers could go with it?

[pure raven]

Those dinos have a bite force of a wolf, which is pretty weak compared to Dino’s

[swift fox]

Yamato only has 2 fangs

[slow sandal]

no spoilers yet

[teal bay]

it says on vivre card and wiki not me

[muted ember]

rawr

[sand robin]

We dont know yet, its somehow luffy thought can be hear by nearby people, maybe enchanted haki and we deserve oda confirmation

[cyan berry]

There's already a sabretooth fruit

and Who's Who has it

[sullen flume]

yamato is a white tiger

[muted ember]

yeah but sabertooth is a category of species. Are you saying, that because there's a sabretooth fruit, that there can be NONE of the saberteeth'd animals as devilfruits?

[cyan berry]

yes

this is his fruit

[muted ember]

Interesting. I don't agree. Just because there are literally almost hundreds of different species, that just HAPPEN to have saberteeth. Most known are Lion, Tiger, Cheetah & Leopard.

[cyan berry]

"cat fruit model sabretooth"

there is no way Yamato is also a sabretoothed cat

[muted ember]

"Saber-toothed TIGER"

So that just gets rid of tigers, not necessarily all sabertoothed animals.

[worldly anvil]

when people don't know that tigers are cats

[teal bay]

i have been saying same thing

[supple nimbus]

I honestly think it is the byakko, I mean come on the matching color scheme and the fact that it's mythical are too big to ignore

Many illustrations even have horns

[teal bay]

can be what is byakko again?
also saber toothed cats have 4 fangs not 2

[supple nimbus]

Byakko is one of the 4 Chinese constellation symbols. Kaido's Azure dragon is also one of them.

[copper cliff]

What’s the other 2?

[teal bay]

In Chinese Constellations, there are four mythological creatures who guard the world in four directions, which are named 'Four Symbols' or the 'Four Mythological Symbols' ('Si Xiang' in Chinese). They are the Azure Dragon, the Vermilion Bird, the White Tiger, and the Black Tortoise.

phoenix(Marco) vermillion bird
dragon (Kaido) is azure dragon

[weary cliff]

As I understand, the vermilion bird is separate from the idea of the phoenix, of which they have a version called fenghuang. So Marco probably has nothing to do with this pattern. Especially since he's blue and not red

[light pond]

But marco is blue not Vermillion

[teal bay]

phoenix represents the western society

The Fenghuang (similar to the phoenix in western mythologies)

[weary cliff]

What I mean is the zhuque (vermillion bird) and fenghuang (phoenix) are separate entities in chinese mythology

If there was a zhuque zoan, it'd likely have fire powers that burn people, not healing powers. Which seems redundant next to the plethora of other fire powers, so idk if we'd see one

[stone oak]

im more inclined to think that yamato's devil fruit is actually a white tiger

becuase i find it weird that kaido's devil fruit is specifically an AZURE dragon

[nocturne bison]

It was stated

When i read the Japanese spoiler

[tired osprey]

1. spoilers always go into the spoiler channel
2. thats a fake spoiler

[stone oak]

if we are talking about chinese mythology here the azure dragon represents the east while the white tiger represents the west

[nocturne bison]

Idk but if we gonna go mythilogy chimera head was a lion i think that would fit to represnts the west

[fallow knot]

What if lurking legend is right hand man of rocks pirates

[last halo]

I definitely believe she's has the white tiger devil fruit.

As a yokai it has the ability to control wind and reign over the other beasts. However, in Chinese legend, the Byakko only appears when the ruling emperor is exceptionally virtuous or the world is at peace.

[fallow knot]

So she has a great chance of giving kaido a lethal blow

[coral zinc]

i dare you to say the same sentence without the word "lethal"

[heady cairn]

I don't think Yamato can really hurt Kaido

[tribal roost]

Is there a break this week?

[heady cairn]

No

[last halo]

There's also this description for the white tiger, opposing the azure dragon. I think it really fits with Yamato and everything we know about her..

The white tiger represents great strength but not in a showy way as the green dragon, another Feng Shui guardian, and its complementary opposite. A white tiger’s energy symbolizes courage, daring, and fearlessness but in a stealthy way rather than the overtness of the green dragon. The white tiger is also considered a more dignified form of energy. It represents the yin (the feminine energy) to the green dragon’s yang (masculine energy). The white tiger’s energy is quieter protective energy.

[tribal roost]

Then where are the spoilers?

[last halo]

Not out yet

[tribal roost]

[heady cairn]

Don't know, I just saw on this server that they said there wouldn't be a break

[fallow knot]

I believe in oda if he is saving yamato's power for kaido then she really can hurt a kaido

[vestal rampart]

y’all are set on the fact that he has a df?

i think i agree tho actually. i mean, kaido is the captain of the beast/animal kingdom pirates

[weary cliff]

Well he did grow his teeth out that one time, as a threat. Simplest answer is a zoan fruit

[muted ember]

this isnt guaranteed, but the fact they're this late, makes me believe it's tomorrow.

[heady cairn]

And Oda said that Yamato's favorite food is fish, maybe because he will fight Kaido or maybe he has the akuma no mi of the tiger or something like that

[crystal quiver]

Fish could mean a cat fruit or a bear

[agile stream]

White tiger makes the most sense

[wraith helm]

yes

[marsh warren]

i cant wait to see Yamato interacting with Kaido next chapter

maybe we'll get the long awaited Kaido flashback soon

[agile stream]

The twitter war can finally end and kaido flashbacks

[weary cliff]

The tiger just checks so many boxes. I'm anxious for a hard confirm already, since its speculated to death.

But I know in my heart at best we'll get a silhouette next chapter and maybe a confirm after the flashback

[marsh warren]

i think Yamato is going to tell Kaido to his face that Luffy will become Pirate King

[weary cliff]

That would be extreme SH flags

[agile stream]

If Yamato does then he’s joining the crew automatically

If Yamato fights with luffy against kaido it’s over for carrot fans

[weary cliff]

I'd like it if Carrot did mink stuff instead, but I'm not convinced that we can't have both

[agile stream]

Yamato also not human so it’s still implies with diversity

Yamato is like two luffy”s in height so Yamato might be mixed with something else

[weary cliff]

Maybe, or he's just a really tall dude like the dozens of other super tall dudes. Even brook is taller

[agile stream]

Kaido flashback gonna be different

Compare to the others

[red spoke]

what if kaido wanted to kill himself because he wasn’t joy boy and only joy boy can find the one piece and it passed from roger to someone else like luffy

[midnight pendant]

but how does he know about joy boy

[weary cliff]

Nah, Roger wasn't Joyboy. That's not a prerequisite for being PK

[red spoke]

rocks

[midnight pendant]

any theory on yamato's df
she does have one right

[grizzled fog]

Being tall isn’t weird, there are loads of other humans taller than Yamato lol

[red spoke]

it’s most likely zoan

[vocal plaza]

white tiger most probs

[grizzled fog]

Byakko is the running theory, and yea it’s pretty much zoan or nothing

[red spoke]

u think vegapunk invented smile dfs that are logia and paramecia and gave it to multiple soldiers???

[midnight pendant]

why white tiger?

[vocal plaza]

design

[grizzled fog]

Design is a part of it, Byakko also is the counterpart to the Seiryu in Eastern Mythology, and what little we saw of her transformation matched the mouth of a tiger

[midnight pendant]

if he did that then akainu wouldnt have said we have our hands full with shichibukai

i missed on alot of theories

[errant wasp]

cuz of a japanese saying, the white tiger battles the black dragon like yin and yang

[scenic thicket]

theres gonna be a war greater than marineford after blackbeard gets beaten

[lusty hatch]

Could Zeus be a genius and leave a part of himself when he was in the climatact then "fake" his own death?
This way Big Mom doesn't even consider looking for him because he died before her eyes and Hera got powered.
By doing this Nami's power up wouldn't be that OP either since it's a significantly weaker Zeus.

[thick sky]

zeus with nami's science's clouds would be strong

[agile stream]

But Yamato got horns

[weary cliff]

!horns

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/703457603887300608/unknown.png

[agile stream]

But kaido also makes remarks about humanity like he’s not even human

[modest skiff]

I still squint my eyes at "don't think too much" not being "they mean nothing". He's asking us to refocus our attention, not denying

[weary cliff]

Maybe Kaido doesn't relate with humanity because he has some kind of complex, or he is simply speaking philosophically. Either way, more reason to see them as human than not

[modest skiff]

If Oda didn't like being such a trickster I'd ignore it

[weary cliff]

I don't see it as worth paying anymore attention to than people with extra joints in arms/legs, people with 3 eyes, etc. People are just weird because Oda likes interesting designs

[modest skiff]

I don't think we have nearly enough info to form theories anyway, but I will be surprised if there doesn't end up being a larger reason

[pure raven]

Do you think that Moria is alive and will be able to mess something up in the world of "one piece", or is he already deleted? His power is extremely useful, and Luffy is now able to absorb more shadows.

[modest skiff]

I think Moria's fruit is a part of BB's master plan. Shadows are clearly a really, really big deal. The fact that BB is able to permanently store basically anything inside him feels like it goes well with shadows.

[heady cairn]

I think he is dead and a member of BB's crew ate it

[last halo]

Doc Q with Moria's fruit could be something interesting

[modest skiff]

I think BB is essentially building a "combo deck". Once he gets 5-6 certain devil fruits, I think he wins by default from overpowered combinations

[pure raven]

I hope Oda has plans to use the fruit, but maybe he won't kill him that quickly.

Moria may have been specific and irritating, but also loyal to his friends.

[modest skiff]

Theres just soooo much lore around shadows. They have to come into play later

[last halo]

Tbh I don't see Blackbeard missing the chance to take Moria's fruit

[modest skiff]

BB has no incentive not to kill Moria if he can just give his fruit to someone else. I agree @last halo

[weary cliff]

I like this idea, but the examples we've seen of the BB pirates fruit hunting have been luck based. But then again, BB's entire shichibukai "plan" only came together through good luck, so maybe he "planned" to lure Absalom and Moria in a similar way

[pure raven]

I was hoping that due to his connection to Kaido, we would see him in Wano under the BB flag.

[bright trench]

Guys... Can we believe unconsciously Luffy can communicate with TVOAT just like before timeskip he could use CoC?

[weary cliff]

I don't see why not. He unconsciously projected his will just this very arc, when he got laid out by Kaido the first time

[pseudo citrus]

byakko makes sense for the devil fruit, but isn't it a bit of a dumb move to give your kid the devil fruit which opposes yours? you're just asking for them to be rebellious

[exotic echo]

well, not like kaido would have any knowledge about planet earth's mythology

[pseudo citrus]

haha good point... but then kaido would be the type confident enough to care, just save the best fruit for his kid. that said, I think it'd be interesting if we learn whether yamato got the devil fruit before or after the execution

[modest skiff]

If his dream is to die, makes sense

[dense yew]

guys, you know the drill

[supple magnet]

Look at the spoilers tab it says everything you need there

[ruby thistle]

aaah sorry, blind af 😅

[agile stream]

Kaido dream is to die an honorable death in a great battle

[reef grotto]

I don't think we'll ever see shadow luffy again but I definitely think moria has more to offer. For starters, we know that the moria in thriller bark was a shadow of his former self (lmao) and he never directly fought luffy 1v1 with his own strength. This sets up some kind of second fight with him, maybe with brook for revenge idk. And I agree, the sadows have way too much potential not to be used (especially with all the deaths at marineford), plus moria's fruit is one of the coolest we've seen yet imo. There is also a remote chance that that new shichibukai was whitebeard's corpse with a random soul (that'd explain the difference in appearance between him and his mother idk and certainly the stitches) but I wouldn't bet on this one.

or maybe he was killed by BB and some of them have his fruit, or maybe he even joined them (probably not)

[modest skiff]

That’s why he told Kin to be thankful

[supple magnet]

I don’t think he will get that grand death he wants

[reef grotto]

considering we know BM won't die, it's likely kaido won't die too

[modest skiff]

“Know”?

[reef grotto]

nami's powerup depends on her staying alive

she could die after the series is over but that wouldn't make much sense anyway

[supple magnet]

Not really

[modest skiff]

I have been pondering the idea that if BM gives her life force to something, that may not go back when she’s dead. Not sure though. Either way I don’t think BM dies anyway because I think they end up as allies through Sanji’s cooking

[supple magnet]

Nahhh I think big mom will become a plot point for early elbaph and will actually kill Kaido

[reef grotto]

from what we've seen df powers tend to disappear even when the user goes unconscious, no way homies stay up after she dies

[reef grotto]

remember luffy promised he'd beat kaido himself

[modest skiff]

Eh there are lots of powers that change the world and the world doesn’t go back after they die. I think her power is unique because it does something that appears irreversible

[supple magnet]

That is true but in big moms case her homies have their own lifespan separate from big moms

[weary cliff]

Luffy can beat Kaido with BM or anyone else getting the kill

[reef grotto]

which ones?

[grand knoll]

i hope sanji doesn't use his suit against queen ( yes ima sanji fanboy)

[modest skiff]

Well for example I don’t think those buildings Doffy turned into string will reappear

[reef grotto]

it would be very weird to kill an unconscious/incapacitated man

[supple magnet]

While I would love to see it, I don’t think that luffy can beat Kaido in a 1v1 or even in a group vs Kaido also the theme of betrayal in Pirates alliances has been built up for a long time

[reef grotto]

the city turned into rubble after doflamingo was defeated, there were no strings anymore

[supple magnet]

I hope sanji flexes hard on queen and wins with little problems

[weary cliff]

The idea behind BM killing Kaido isnt going in to stab him Kinemon style, its that she takes advantage of his busted up self to steal his soul

[reef grotto]

I mean, at least I couldn't see any string on dressrosa after he was defeated

[reef grotto]

I'd like him to drop the suit as well but he's using it against queen for sure. The last hope would be for him to give it to franky and to get a different powerup, but considering shyliew has the suke suke no mi, it's clear the final fight for sanji is gonna involve him being invisible

as long as he has the suit on him, he's gonna use it

[reef grotto]

uhm, this could potentially happen I guess and it'd give more meaning to BM being on wano

[modest skiff]

This would be extremely pog

[weary cliff]

I think its more likely that Kaido goes the same way as every other villian. But it would be ironic if he died terrified of BM instead of in battle. And that way a Kaido homie can keep his relevance in the story

[reef grotto]

what homie would it be? Considering she has already had Zeus, Hera, Prometheus, and Napoleon (why the fuck is this one not named after greek mythology smh), it can't be Pluton nor Poseidon nor Uranus of course, so maybe it could be Gea? Kinda weird for a flying male dragon to be named after a female earth goddess

possibly Kronos?

[supple magnet]

My guess would be a dragon homie just named Kaido

[reef grotto]

BM's homies don't really have the names of the people they belonged to

[modest skiff]

Irrelevant because Nami will shoot Zeus in between BM and Kaido during transfer and Zeus will gain Kaido's soul

[reef grotto]

uhhhhhhhhhh nahhhhhhh

[supple magnet]

Sheesh bro Zeus

[modest skiff]

(this is rather wishful, I know), but I still have a lurking feeling that Kaido ends up being in some way beneficial to SHs at the end of this arc. My "leading" theory is that Kaido becomes a Tsundere for Luffy after being defeated

[reef grotto]

Imo thinking about it nami could've potentially beat all of the cp9 with the right setup, the powers of the climatact don't depend on physical strength after all and she was able to beat kalifa just fine

[pseudo citrus]

I thought orochi was created to keep most of the "evil" deeds off of kaido's hands so he could end up helping him, but if he's going around killing scabbards, I think he might be too far gone

[reef grotto]

nami vs lucci when

[supple magnet]

Kaido was always doing evil deeds not just orochi

[modest skiff]

Once the fight starts, the moral implications are removed IMO

[grizzled fog]

“Just fine”. Like all her opponents nami was only able to beat Kalifa because she was heavily underestimated and messed around with nami for a while. So any other member who actually regards her as a threat would just kill her

[pseudo citrus]

maybe they'll put kaido in the cell next to doflamingo so they can flash their faces every 100 chapters

[weary cliff]

Even back in Zou, Luffy was calling for Kaido's head. All of act 1 was also just an ongoing example of why he needs to go. Idk how he becomes any sort of ally with that build up

[reef grotto]

true

[modest skiff]

I suppose gaining minks and Wano as allies is enough for this arc, lol

[reef grotto]

maybe kalifa was just into nami and didn't want to kill her, that's why she used the df instead of the six powers

[bold gull]

i guess kalifa didn't know how to use her powers at the time

[pseudo citrus]

maybe if kalifa tried to shave her feet would just slip on the ground

[pure raven]

it's quite funny because there's some potential chat with like opening up borders and potentially joining the WG

[modest skiff]

It’s funny because Wano itself is way beyond many participants of WG

[bold gull]

it would be a direct parallel with the history of real japan after WW2 that has been a thing during the whole wano arc... but i can't see wano joining the WG

[modest skiff]

Wano will be a part of the new WG

Not old one IMO

[supple magnet]

Unless luffy makes it his territory they won’t be protected unless they join the wg

[bold gull]

lol the new world order

[modest skiff]

Luffy already allied with Wano

[ember trench]

Wano doesn’t need protection

[bold gull]

I agree

[modest skiff]

Wano is already a part of the Luffy alliance which is more than enough. IMO Luffy will form a new world government that isn’t actually a government and just has a party instead of reverie

[pure raven]

I don't really see what opening the borders to Wano means other than joining the WG cause like the political borders are closed cause of Kaido and Orochi and history but like what does opening Wano actually mean in terms of implications

[supple magnet]

They actually do. If they were protected by the WG maybe Kaido would’ve been attacked by now

[ember trench]

Lol the WG isn’t going to do that

[lusty hatch]

They didn't need protection from WG as long as Orochi didn't let Kaido in

[ember trench]

They’d have thrown Wano to the dogs and nothing would change

[bold gull]

well this whole topic of opening wano borders has not been explained yet... it looks that there's a reason why they were closed and there's a reason for oden wanting them open but it's not clear what those reasons are

[ember trench]

Besides the shogun of Wano is the one who invited the Beast Pirates

[supple magnet]

Kaido could’ve taken over regardless

[supple magnet]

Why wouldn’t they move to destroy one of if not the biggest threat in the world to them

[ember trench]

Because it is one of the biggest threats to the world

[bold gull]

kaido wouldn't have become so powerful if the borders were opens... there were so many pirates, revolutionary and marine to stop kaido even if it wasn't part of the WG

[lusty hatch]

Not likely its too difficult without inside help. Kaido would've been in a much different place without Kanjuro's spying

[pure raven]

WG vs Whitebeard at his low point was A LOT for them

Kaido is nowhere near as weak as Whitebeard was at present

[bold gull]

also kaido stated it himself... when he arrived in wano there was an high chance of him being defeated by oden

[pure raven]

The grandline is a stretch of ocean, one that arguably the WG has the least handle on because of all the major players

[supple magnet]

The marines beat the whitebeard Pirates easily the aftermath was the only part that affected them

[lusty hatch]

The Marines also had to protect the island so they couldn't go all out

[supple magnet]

He did but oden was naive and chose to wait to attack

[pure raven]

I remember the casualties, Akainu getting bodied by an OLD and SICK whitebeard and they had to call in the 7 war lords and they still were having a hard time.

[bold gull]

also alabasta had marine roaming around and allegedly defeating crocodile even if it wasn't part of the wg

[pure raven]

and they basically called Whitebeard to their turf where they could set the playing field and rules

The WG coming to Wano to try and fuck with Kaido feels like it's ground for disaster and massive casualties that they're not willing to lose in the present

[bold gull]

yeah now picture whitebeard stopping by just to say hello and kaido being defeated

[supple magnet]

By the end of the war all 3 admirals were fine. Akainu was hit 2 times by whitebeard while he put a hole in his chest and blew half his head off the only reason the fight didn’t continue was because he was underground

[supple magnet]

Lol Kaido would be dead

[pure raven]

Yea and they still had all of marineford destroyed, innumerable casualties, and still were not in a readied position to conceivably attempt a fight with a healthier Yonko. This is not a clean sweep

[supple magnet]

They’re arguably strongest members we’re fine though gar and sengoku hardly fought the marines could beat Kaidos crew with little problems

[pure raven]

Fine =/= unscathed and that's a lot of faith in the belief of how strong the WG can actually force their hand

[grizzled fog]

Little problems? Lmao

[supple magnet]

They weren’t unscathed but their big players were all fine. Also whitebeard has a way stronger crew then Kaido so I see what you’re saying but if the WG had an opportunity to attack Kaido they could and they would’ve won

[supple magnet]

Read my other posts and you’ll see why

[bold gull]

i think oden not attacking earlier wasn't just naivety but some sort of guilt. i think he acknowledged the motivations of orochi's grudge against wano and wanted to amend

[grizzled fog]

I wouldn’t necessarily say Whitebeard has a way stronger crew

[supple magnet]

I think he was naive because he truly believed that orochi and Kaido would leave wano after five years like they said they would

[supple magnet]

From what we’ve seen he has stronger commanders, more commanders, and more allied crews. Arguments could be made for Kaido though because he has the smile fruit

[grizzled fog]

Stronger commanders is debate able, and as for having more commanders, most of Whitebeard’s commanders definitely aren’t even close to as strong as people like King, Marco, Jozu or Ace for instance, in fact the tobi roppo are probably stronger than most of them. As for having more allied crews, whitebeard’s crew plus his allied crews probably add up to less than kaido’s 30000 troops lol, and thats not even mentioning that the 500 gifters included in that are probably about as strong as another 5000 fodder.

[pure raven]

Queen also fights dirty and has now qualms about mass blowing through everyone with shit so that fodder rate also goes down another bunches of noticable notches

[grizzled fog]

At the end of the day kaido literally designed his crew for war. It’s built for that, whitebeard’s isn’t

[teal bay]

They were there cuz smoker wanted beef with luffy

[supple magnet]

Could you remind me how many people are in Kaidos crew? I can’t find it online

[grizzled fog]

About 30000

[supple magnet]

On paper the crews seem about equal but the beast Pirates are being pushed back by an alliance of about 5000 while the WB Pirates almost saved ace

[grizzled fog]

That’s not a great way to compare them lol, there’s been a number of factors going there way

Queen has caused hundreds, shit maybe thousands of his own side to turn traitor. Not to mention the samurai of wano are renowned and strong, so the average samurai is probably gonna be worth a couple fodder beast pirates

Then there’s tama turning gifters

They had the benefit of a surprise attack too, which gave them an initial jump on the enemy

[supple magnet]

That’s a good point but the beast Pirates also have big mom and perospero

During this raid at least

[grizzled fog]

Big mom has done more against the beast pirates atm lol, she’s taken down two officers, and Perospero has been attacking some fodder I guess? Many of whom were originally on the beast pirates side.

[ancient vault]

she took them doen casually i might add

[supple magnet]

As you said this isn’t the best comparison but if the alliance were attacking the marines they wouldn’t get nearly as far as they’ve gotten against the beast Pirates

[ancient vault]

im hoping for an SSG vs Kaido

[grizzled fog]

There’s also the numbers, and remember how big a deal Oars Jr was in Marineford? Imagine ten of him lmao

[supple magnet]

And the whitebeard Pirates put up a decent fight against the marines

[supple magnet]

Number == oars jr

[grizzled fog]

They aren’t the same, but they’re comparable

Also, if you’re assuming the beast pirates are simply attacking the marines, rather than trying to rescue them, then the marines are gonna take a lot more damage than they did in MF lol. Whitebeard couldn’t let loose because of ace, kaido on the other hand would have no issue slinging boro breathe around, and remember how devastating Queen’s plagues can be? Those things would totally fuck an army

[midnight heron]

Im thinking haki can give you the ability to walk on water, which would explain how shanks got there before his crew ship did

[grizzled fog]

Shanks didn’t really get there before them, they were all there

[midnight heron]

ah

[pure raven]

if haki gave you the ability to walk on water i don't know why some DF new world users would avoid it

[supple magnet]

I just think that what push’s the whitebeard Pirates over the Beast Pirates is the strength of the commanders and the crew dynamic also the whitebeard Pirates have been fighting stronger opponents for longer than the beast Pirates and the only thing better about the beast Pirates is Kaido is stronger than old whitebeard either way I see the marines beating the beast Pirates without major problems

[mild kite]

How many marines were there at marineford? Wiki is saying 100 thousand strong. Do we actually know?

[teal bay]

WB was trying to save Ace and other members of his crew he can literally and that why he was playing properly on other hand Kaido dont give a shit and he knows he can target his boro breath. so he can attack marines with it and they are all gone Kaido can mass destruction at Marineford and he would have fucked them up and considering his scales he wouldn't be harmed that much if he is in the air

[supple magnet]

The wiki is probably accurate

[mild kite]

I don't think any one yonko crew beats the force of the navy

[supple magnet]

Any combination of 2 admirals garp sengoku or mihawk can beat Kaido 2 v1 mid diff

[mild kite]

kaido's crew is 20,000 iirc

[supple magnet]

I’d say the force of the Marines is about equal to 2-3 Yonko and their crews

[teal bay]

then why is it that navy hasn't anything against Yonkos if they are biggest threats cuz they gonna get fucked up bad

[grizzled fog]

3 yonko crush the marines, 2 I’m not sure but the yonko probably win. 1 yonko loses

[teal bay]

admirals = yonko commander level
garp/sengoku = yonko level

[grizzled fog]

No lol

[supple magnet]

They monitor all of the yonko at all times and usually don’t have the resources to attack in times of conflict

[grizzled fog]

Admirals crap on probably any commander except MAYBE Ben beckman

[supple magnet]

Admirals clap any commander aside from Marco and maybe some shanks commanders low diff

[mild kite]

Well, if the navy just invade the new world without caution then yea. But the navy just cant take their WHOLE force and knock out 1 yonko crew at a time. The other yonkos arent going to wait their turn

[supple magnet]

Also garp/sengoku can’t beat a yonko 1v1 anymore

[mild kite]

plus the navy's bases and mariejois would be completely defenseless.

[teal bay]

hmm now i think of admirals are slightly upper then commander and lower than yonko and yonko is equal to fleet admiral

[grizzled fog]

The problem is the navy would have to pull all their forces from around the world and invade to defeat one emperor, and the casualties from doing so would be so immense any other yonko could clean up

Same reason why the yonko rarely fight each other

[fringe tide]

So any theories about yamato not actually being kaidos kid? Like shes some kid kaido long ago took pity on and adopted/trained. Kaidos using yamato to rule wano and yamato was just forced to follow him cause she/he was powerless to stop him.

[supple magnet]

I’m pretty sure akainu is yonko level rn but don’t quote me

[supple magnet]

There’s no evidence to these theories

[small frigate]

akainu not even close to yonko lvl

[supple magnet]

Then why did Blackbeard run from him ?

[small frigate]

in marinford?

[supple magnet]

Post marineford https://youtu.be/AjZbL0NKKUc

[grizzled fog]

Because blackbeard wasn’t strong enough then lol

[supple magnet]

It happened in the manga too I just can’t post pictures

[grizzled fog]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[supple magnet]

I know but @small frigate said that akainu was nowhere near yonko level

[grizzled fog]

Wouldn’t necessarily say that, but unless he got stronger during the timeskip he’s not up there with the yonko

[small frigate]

sick wb beat akainu and you want to tell me that he is yonko lvl? and yes in this time bb was not storbg

[supple magnet]

I think he did get stronger during timeskip because of his fight with aokiji

[supple magnet]

That’s a common misconception. Whitebeard hit akainu twice and bloodied his face and knocked him underground. Akainu on the other hang put a hole in his chest and blew off part of his head. The fight didn’t continue because of other circumstances but of it did akainu would beat him.

[small frigate]

get stronger yes but not yonko lvl, and if he is yonko lvl why he dont capture bm shanks or kaido

[devout hedge]

@supple magnet Probably you are right based on WB health condition Akainu would have win.

[modest skiff]

Right now Kaido and BM feel incomparably stronger than WB before he died

[devout hedge]

@small frigate because it's not 1vs1, there are always casualties

[supple magnet]

He has other responsibilities and can’t really just decide to invade yonko territory and fight a yonko also I never said he would win against a yonko but he can give any yonko an extreme diff fight where he has a chance at winning

[supple magnet]

That is true but they are both in their primes and are more fleshed out with their abilities where whitebeard only fought for like 20 chapters

[small frigate]

kaido : wororororo am i joke to you

[gray ore]

do you guys think bb would be the final villian or im

[grizzled fog]

Imu being the final villain is more likely atm

[gray ore]

to me it seems high unlikely that bb will be the final villian

[supple magnet]

I think that both have good potential to be final antagonists but if it’s Im then they’d be fighting the whole world government which I think would be more interesting than a Blackbeard crew vs straw hat crew

[lunar heath]

I feel like bb and luffy gonna be fighting the final fight and luffy gonna be clapping him and then imu gonna come and one shot bb and then luffy fights imu

[gray ore]

as imu had bb's poster and was mb thinking about getting him killed so doesnt that mean imu knows how good bb is and also unlike luffy bb doesnt have plot armor

[lunar heath]

[pure raven]

Im probably wants to stop whatever JoyBoy's prophecy thing is
BB is a more personal antagonist and likely will be fought given that Luffy's Journey is effectively proving he's stronger than all the other Yonko and thus worthy of the title of pirate king even if the only requisite for it is find the one piece

[teal bay]

no spoilers yet

[supple magnet]

Also if im ends up being a mastermind well set up antagonist that makes the story better then oda will probably move from my 2nd favorite author to my number 1

[lunar heath]

who’s ur 1 rn

[supple magnet]

Bb kinda does have plot armor dude has everything going his way

[gray ore]

yea also im's subbordinates (the gorossei) are potentially much stronger than bb's subordinates

[pure raven]

Im has a major role to play as the literal ruler of the world and with the toppling of the Celestial Dragon, we can clearly see it'll fall

[supple magnet]

Kentaro Miura is my number 1

[pure raven]

the dude who wrote berserk?

[supple magnet]

Yes

[supple magnet]

The real question is if Blackbeard will fall before the war of be involved directly in the war

[pure raven]

I'd say directly involved given our current time table

[sand sail]

He'll be directly involved

He's the biggest potential player out there right now

And he's aiming to have the age defined as his

[gray ore]

wouldnt it be anti climatic if bb was the last enemy as after having the strongest people fight the gorrosei and luffy fighting im we would be fighting people like burges lol

[supple magnet]

Im could be a bigger player IMO also I think that right now the story has to move onto laughtale befor the final war and I don’t see the straw hats getting there without fighting BB

[sand sail]

You say this like anything the marines or Gorosei have compare at all to Big Mom and Kaido together

The Strawhats don't have to get there without fighting Blackbeard, but that doesn't mean they'll ever be able to beat him before Laugh Tale is found

Im is a bigger player right now because they're the most powerful political leader in the world, but Blackbeard has the physical ability to devastate the planet and is intent on forcing his time to shine

[gray ore]

the way the gorosei were introduced i think they are really strong

[sand sail]

Nothing about anything they've ever done has really indicated any kind of strength

[gray ore]

i mean they have swords and shits so they are fighters

[pure raven]

We know Oda wants to retire/end this story in approximately 5-6 years.

Oda has some stuff to wrap up seeing how we haven't gotten to shanks or Elbaf yet
What the void century is alongside who is JoyBoy
Bonney and Urogue and really Drake's eventual moment with the strawhats since I'm working on the assumption that Oda wants them all to have intimate interactions with the strawhats and Drake is atm not really in too deep with them unlike I'd argue Law and Kid and Bege are
Then of course the Revolutionary plotline and fleshing that out
The BIG AF war that Oda's been setting up and making us feel the impact of it there
The actual finding of the one piece.
Zoro getting the title of greatest swordsman (Probably at the greatest war if we're being honest)
Sanji finding the all Blue (Which some theories think is the destruction of the red line)
Im's backstory which is gonna take a few chapters

[supple magnet]

Do the gorosei even have names rn?

[pure raven]

There's a lot that Oda has to go through and that's just the major stuff that I vaguely can recall

Oh not to mention how BB can do what he does and his life before the BB pirates

[gray ore]

if they were figureheads why would they have swords

[sand sail]

None of that will be hard to put in

Oda is great at condensing information while still giving the full story

[sand sail]

Figureheads have swords constantly, it's a symbol of authority

[pure raven]

Course not; I'm just saying we've got a lot of ground to cover and I'm curious how they'll go about it

[sand sail]

Likewise, having a sword doesn't mean they're worth anything in any kind of meaningful fight

[pure raven]

like

[sand sail]

And exactly one person has a weapon of any kind in the group, let's not take a leap and call them consequential at all

[gray ore]

they have scars, swords and a big build

[supple magnet]

Everything you say makes sense but I’m not sure how it will play out I have 100 percent faith in oda to finish this adventure in a good way

[gray ore]

you dont see people that look like that to be figureheads in any anime

[pure raven]

I genuinely see Oda being capable

this won't be a Toriko
My real only last selfish wish for Oda is like

[supple magnet]

While that is true the sword is probably the shodai kitetsu which is potentially the strongest sword in the series and lots of people would like to see it

[pure raven]

A small Epilogue for the straw hats and that's really about it and Oda really showcasing full circle that Dreams never die

[sand sail]

The strongest sword in the series is Yoru, Mihawk's blade

[pure raven]

not saying Luffy dies or anything; just the idea and story and the will passing on is a very nice touch

[supple magnet]

That’s one of my favorite themes in one piece and a small epilogue would be great

[sand sail]

Their builds are average at best, and having scars doesn't mean anything

[supple magnet]

I said potentially but yeah I agree

[gray ore]

we have 12 strongest blades

[sand sail]

This isn't a good metric to try to determine if they're strong or not lol

At best, we can say they have maybe been in fights

[gray ore]

and the fact that we havent seen more means it is likely that we will see alot of them soon

[supple magnet]

My point is that with a sword that infamous and hyped up it would be a shame not to see it in action for some people

[gray ore]

it doesnt say anything but can you tell me any anime where serious old people who have scars and swords were anything but badass 😄

[pure raven]

I see the major war going hard, Zoro fighting Mihawk, The revolutionaries alongside the yonko or at least BB involved in this cluster fuck with Shirahoshi coming in and probably a reveal that the Sunny is Pluton or a major component to Pluton with Franky revisions

[sand sail]

It hasn't really been hyped up by anyone but the fans

[sand sail]

There are multiple people in One Piece alone that go against this

[supple magnet]

Oda has hyped up the kitetsu blades and all supreme grade swords throughout the series

[sand sail]

Likewise, "badass" is different from "worth fighting"

[gray ore]

can you name

[sand sail]

I'm not going to name anyone from another series, other series details aren't allowed here

[pure raven]

honestly I highly expect that like Mihawk has CoC which is only befitting as the world's strongest swordsman and Zoro meeting him in full force with the experience he's developed traveling the world as Mihawk stated at the end of their first duel

[sand sail]

In One Piece, just from early chapters, Genzo from Nami's village comes to mind

[gray ore]

no i mean from onepiece as you said

[supple magnet]

While some of those are a stretch I’m my opinion I agree the whole war is where shit will hit the fan. I think zoro vs mihawk is unlikely during the war since they won’t be on opposite sides

[pure raven]

I think

[gray ore]

he was a thin guy with no build + he didnt have these scars

[pure raven]

I'm just taking Oda's word too seriously when he stated that this war would make Marineford look small

[gray ore]

his scars were trolly

[sand sail]

He did have scars, and the dude who holds a sword in the Gorosei has an identical build to him

Do you need to see a picture of them again?

There's also Fossa from Whitebeard's crew, and while he was powerful, he was nothing special

[grizzled fog]

There’s maybe two dudes in the gorosei who are even remotely buff lol

We’ve seen loads of buff people who end up as total fodder

[sand sail]

Really only one, they're all pretty thin or just obese

[supple magnet]

Maybe the making of a black blade is related to coc coated weapons and zoro will learn how to do soon

[sand sail]

There's Hyogoro, while badass in his old age isn't even worth one of the Flying Six fighting now

[pure raven]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sand sail]

And that's from Wano. Seriously, that metric is just silly to go by, lmao

[pure raven]

Just enjoy the epic showdown for what it'll be

Finale; Brook sees Laboon again, Luffy pays his treasure tab at Makino's bar, Zoro finally becomes the world's strongest, Usopp has the stories he wants to tell, Robin learns the truth of the world, Franky really is sorta just happy to be there since he got to see his ship do what he wanted it to do. Chopper... Really is shafted here huh? Sanji probably finds the all blue through the destruction of the redline or whatever, Nami has completely mapped the Grandline/New World, Jinbei sees his captain prosper and helps bring the fishmen to the surface and maybe Yamato does some shit too idk.

[sand sail]

What's going on now is already bigger than Marineford was

[supple magnet]

I gotta disagree with that

[pure raven]

this feels like watching a tsunami climb and climb and climb as we're anticipating the fall

[modest skiff]

MF still feels bigger atm

[sand sail]

Marineford didn't have an island flying and two Emperors causing multiple islands worth of devastating

It had more people, but that's about it so far

[modest skiff]

true

[sand sail]

The implications are already far greater

[supple magnet]

Jinbe low key has the hardest dream to accomplish dudes trying to end racism

[modest skiff]

Much bigger implications, smaller total battle

[sand sail]

Two Emperors, if they go down, is far worse than Whitebeard dying solo

If they don't, it's far worse than anything the world's seen since presumably the Void Century at least

[digital horizon]

Marineford may be bigger in terms of how many people are impacted, but this war feels a lot more...intense? I'm gonna use intense. It feels like a lot more is at stake in this one

[modest skiff]

why worse?

[sand sail]

As far as numbers go, they only have about half of Marineford's at the absolute best

[pure raven]

BM and Kaido formed an alliance making them the strongest and most dangerous force in the one piece world since the early days of the Rocks pirates

[sand sail]

But yeh, waaaay more riding on it now. Also it's now Luffy's actual fight, and not just a rescue mission, so there's going to be an end to the conflict forced one way or the other

[supple magnet]

There was lots of destruction at marinford too and marineford had lots more important characters in the one piece world.

[sand sail]

They're worse than Rocks ever was

Marineford had one Emperor and the marines, Wano has two Emperors and the Worst Generation at stake

[supple magnet]

I still don’t think they could beat the marines

[sand sail]

And the destruction wasn't nearly as bad as Wano is about to get'

[pure raven]

I think you hype the marines up too much

[sand sail]

It was barely worse than Wano has been lol

They would wipe the marines out, that's why they're the worst thing to ever happen. One Emperor was already enough to force the marines to reach for outside help with the warlords and the SSG

[supple magnet]

I think the marines are too underrated given how many top tiers and pure numbers they have

[sand sail]

Two was enough that they don't even know if the SSG can stand up to it, let alone win

[pure raven]

Think we'll ever see Shiki in the canon of one piece? I know he's real and in the canon but doesn't play a major role as of yet

[sand sail]

The entire tone of the balance has been that the marines are on the losing end of it lol

[supple magnet]

If onigashima falls then absolutely

[sand sail]

Nah, we probably won't see shiki again any time soon, maybe if he like has a cameo looking into the carnage

[supple magnet]

Only right now because of everything they are dealing with like the revolutionary army and the warlords and the reverie

[sand sail]

No, the entire series

That's why they tried so hard to just keep Whitebeard and Shanks from meeting, and why they brought the entire marine force and the warlords together just for one Emperor

And still thought they might lose

Marineford alone should show you how the world and the marines themselves view how well they can measure up to the Emperors, and it's not a favorable light by any means

[pure raven]

what's the chance that Kuzan is a Sword member or something?

[sand sail]

Incredibly low, but maybe

[supple magnet]

They were scared but in the grand scheme of things they won the war with heavy casualties but still didn’t expend their most powerful members

[sand sail]

Irrelevant, they only managed to do it that well because of Sengoku's planning and Blackbeard's assistance, they were minutes away from full on losing the island entirely

And Sengoku still felt that they could have lost. It doesn't matter how the war actually turns out, that mindset never changed from start to finish

Even after he downed Akainu and had half of his face burned off, Sengoku and Garp were still gearing up for Whitebeard to blow the island away

[supple magnet]

I love the theory That aokiji is a secret revolutionary and that’s why the revs didn’t get completely wiped out when Blackbeard attacked their HQ was because aokiji informed them. It would also be a good way for the revs to get enough power for a potential war

[pure raven]

man is a dark horse in this story

[sand sail]

I could see a secret Revolutionary before being a Sword member

[supple magnet]

But the thing is the marines could’ve killed ace at any time and wiped out the whitebeard Pirates relatively easy especially is Garp wasn’t conflicted and fought and the admirals (aside from akainu) tried harder. There were so many opportunities for the marines to win easily. Whitebeard was a huge threat thanks to the nature of his ability and him wanting to die for his family

Aokiji really is an interesting character who has seen the world for lots of viewpoints

[pure raven]

makes sense for his character as a revolutionary

man sees WG genocide an island and sees the demonize a child who is constantly on the run over something basically arbitrary

sees the WG as shady and uses the cover of Lazy justice so that he can act or choose to not act in a way that won't actually fuck with his position as admiral

[supple magnet]

I hope that smoker becomes like aokiji after seeing how corrupt the marines really are

[pure raven]

he knows; he absolutely knows

[supple magnet]

Aokiji has been experiencing all of this firsthand and knew that it would only get worse is akainu became FA

[sand sail]

Oda considers all of this wrong

So, I will too

You think those opportunities were there, besides being able to kill Ace at any time, clearly you were mistaken lol

Especially when Sengoku himself is the one who states that Whitebeard still has more than enough power to wipe them out, and even has to brace himself for it after the Akainu beatdown

[pure raven]

Aokiji recollects and introspects
Akainu doubles down otherwise his world view shatters on this absolutism

[sand sail]

This is with him very much considering Garp part of the fighting forces, mind you. This isn't just a theory of his, he was stating this as an absolute possibility

Clearly, there was no scenario where the marines had any kind of "easy" victory, especially not when they almost lose an island for it, even if their admirals are still alive

[grizzled fog]

I strongly dislike the idea of Aokiji being a sword member, but I’m okay with him being a revolutionary. Although I think Aokiji being an independent agent of his own justice like what he said in punk hazard is far and away better than the other options imo

[supple magnet]

That was because of his ability that sengoku was scarred. Unless Kaido has a flying island at his disposal I don’t see him being able to destroy/sink MF like whitebeard could

[supple magnet]

That’s fair but being a secret revolutionary makes tons of sense especially after seeing what the WG does to people

[sand sail]

You don't? You don't see the man who can literally lift and carry the island being able to sink it somehow?

[pure raven]

Something I'd like to also bring to attention.

This was an execution of Ace; the WG/Marines stating to the world "Roger's will and legacy dies here" even though they knew this would bring Whitebeard.

In my POV, I see it as "If the marines can't handle pirates breaking into their headquarters to end 'Evil' then what use are they?" To the world when they were basically watching on. If it was just a simple shank and then fight, that'd be sort of unbecoming as people whom claim to stand for Justice

[grizzled fog]

Lol If kaido just grabbed an island on his way and lifted it far above marineford and dropped there’d pr probably be nothing they can do

[pure raven]

if Ace's death was all they were after, they wouldn't stage an execution akin to Roger. There's symbolic meaning that the WG and Marines see in the death of Ace on the public execution.

[supple magnet]

Sure he can cause mass destruction but he can’t outright destroy MF like whitebeard. If you disagrees just give me a plausible way for him to sink it.

[sand sail]

Literally pick it up and let it drop

[supple magnet]

That would be funny asf

[grizzled fog]

Literally dropping an island the size of Onigashima. No admiral could stop it

[sand sail]

And not one admiral, or even all three, could actually stop him from doing it

[supple magnet]

That would kill all his men as well

[sand sail]

Shanks can't sink an island like that, as far as we've seen. Every single other Emperor has an ability that can

And?

[grizzled fog]

Shit kaido could go all one his own and sink it by doing that

Wouldn’t even need his crew really

[supple magnet]

This is a stupid hypothetical but Fujitora could make the island too heavy to pick up

[pure raven]

Kaido lowkey already dont need his crew if we're being totally real. He just has them to handle the minute that he's too lazy to personally deal with

[supple magnet]

Also admirals teaming up could 100% kill Kaido

[teal bay]

if garp lost control and akainu didn't play shitty marines would have been underwater

[sand sail]

The admirals teaming up are more likely to lose to Kaido at this point

Or, if anything, die trying to take him down

[supple magnet]

Kaido loses to 2 admirals

[sand sail]

No lol, Kaido would dunk on two admirals

[pure raven]

None of the admirals have been shown really to have CoC and atm that's the main true damaging way to get to Kaido

[supple magnet]

That’s a horrible take

[sand sail]

Prove he wouldn't

[supple magnet]

Prove he could

[sand sail]

They've displayed genuinely zero ability that should make you think even two can take him

[pure raven]

I need to see like Kizaru in play cause Kizaru is definetly stronger than the super nova pre timeskip but I need to see him actually challenged before I make a call

[sand sail]

mkay. Well, he's naturally invulnerable to all of their fruits, they've displayed no further haki ability to actually penetrate his hide deep enough to matter

[pure raven]

but granted I think he'll fight blackbeard for an easy light vs darkness fight

[supple magnet]

The admirals have been shown to be extremely powerful and can fight with top tiers

[sand sail]

And he can hit them in a way that's worse than Whitebeard even did, and Whitebeard downed an admiral in two blows

[grizzled fog]

Kizaru was challenged by Rayleigh

[sand sail]

That they struggled just to match Rayleigh and Whitebeard on his actual deathbed

[dense wing]

I’d argue from what we’ve seen even the 3 MF admirals together would lose to Kaido

[pure raven]

true but rayleigh was/is past his prime at that point

[sand sail]

Should tell you about their chances with a fully functional Kaido wwho wants their blood

Mind you, Whitebeard didn't want to fight them. He just walked past them for the most part.

[grizzled fog]

Doesn’t matter, you said you needed to see him be challenged

[sand sail]

When Whitebeard wanted to fight one, look what happened

[supple magnet]

That’s a common misconception. Whitebeard hit akainu twice and bloodied his face and knocked him underground. Akainu on the other hang put a hole in his chest and blew off part of his head. The fight didn’t continue because of other circumstances but of it did akainu would beat him.

[sand sail]

It's not a misconception, it's what happened. Whitebeard knocks Akainu out for the duration of the rest of his life, pretty much

[grizzled fog]

The fight ended because whitebeard put Akainu in a hole in the ground lol, seemingly knocking him out

[sand sail]

If the fight continued, Akainu would have died. The fact that it ended with him being ragdolled into a ravine with Whitebeard just staring down and watching it happen

[supple magnet]

Akainu was hardly injured and was fine after coming back up

[sand sail]

Should be more than enough to tell you where they stood

He was pouring blood from his skull, lmao

[grizzled fog]

He was not fine

[pure raven]

Akainu was very much not fine

[supple magnet]

Whitebeard was missing half his skull

[sand sail]

And didn't even notice it

[grizzled fog]

Seriously how the hell do people say he wasn’t injured, just because we couldn’t see his brain?

[sand sail]

Akainu actually went down

[pure raven]

Whitebeard was also severely weakened

[sand sail]

^ This is the biggest part. Whitebeard was literal minutes from death

Horrifically injured, far worse than what Akainu did to him already

[pure raven]

Whitebeard arguably out of the 4 Yonko was probably the weakest from current implications.

[dense wing]

Minutes from death and ragdolled Akainu

[runic orchid]

For the

[sand sail]

And that on top of getting his face melted, and he's still the last man standing there

Everything shown points to the admirals being woefully weaker, at this point. Just from that one confrontation

[dense wing]

This is a more interesting discussion, like how well would oldbeard fight against the other Yonko

[sand sail]

Oh, there's also people like Luffy and Sabo being able to push them a little back in Dressrosa as well

[dense wing]

Without MF injuries

[sand sail]

As opposed to Big Mom no-selling a Kong Gun with just her forearm and some haki and not budging an inch

[supple magnet]

Akainu would have won against old beard in a pure 1v1 and Kaido would absolutely lose in a 2v1 against 2 admirals

[pure raven]

I think there's a real chance that prime whitebeard could fight current Kaido to a standstill

[sand sail]

Both of those things are very clearly incorrect, based on the conversation we're having here

I'm still waiting for you to provide some evidence, I'm citing straight from the only actual confrontation between an admiral and an Emperor we have

[supple magnet]

Primebeard would win high diff imo

[sand sail]

And the Emperor was barely even worth the title, potentially, at the time

[dense wing]

I mean repeating the argument isn’t an answer to Bean’s points

Which 2 admirals btw

[teal bay]

he was not even appointed yet sheesh you are not even being logical now you just wanna prove marine are strong

[dense wing]

Do you think can take Kaido

And why

Is what I want to hear

[sand sail]

The problem is, the only showing of an admiral against an Emperor resulted in either the admirals being thwarted by the Emperor's commanders, which should tell you exactly where they are comparatively, or with the admiral actually getting bodied beyond his control

[supple magnet]

Akainu melted away half of WB face and continued fighting once he got up from the fissure.

[sand sail]

The fact that commanders could stop and force the admirals to pay attention to them, or that Rayleigh for example could do it to Kizaru, whereas the Emperors are considered untouchable, should be enough indication where they stand

Akainu had to get up

[supple magnet]

Honestly any of them

[sand sail]

That's the bit you're skipping over here man. Whitebeard was the last man standing, and Akainu had to keep up.

At his actual weakest, Whitebeard still canonically demonstrated being objectively superior. That's really all there is to it, that was the whole scene lol

[supple magnet]

Okay even if that’s true 2 admirals would still beat a yonko

[sand sail]

If one Emperor who was barely holding onto the title could ragdoll an admiral in two blows while being fatally wounded and minutes from death himself

[dense wing]

Depends on if you believe old WB is the weakest or not

[sand sail]

I don't see your logic behind two being able to take an Emperor down

[dense wing]

Of the Yonko

[sand sail]

A fresh, full health Emperor, let alone the strongest current one

[teal bay]

kizaru was challenged at that poiny rayleigh was fighting after so many years even when he was past his prime enough to take decisions

[sand sail]

Like, maybe Shanks? I can see them taking Shanks, depending on whatever he uses to defend himself, sure. But Big Mom? Kaido? Nah, that's a workout, but it'll be a victory for them

[supple magnet]

Once again even if WB was stronger it wasn’t by much considering Akainu did not damage than he received two admirals could still take the fight imo

[dense wing]

3 admirals could do very well against Shankd

But we don’t know enough to say who’d win tbh

[grizzled fog]

I think 2 admirals might be able to take down shanks for instance, but not kaido. Not because kaido is that much stronger but I think shanks is wayyy less durable

[sand sail]

He ended their confrontation in two direct blows, and just lets Akainu slip away instead of even trying to finish him off

None of what you are saying holds up to any scrutiny here

[dense wing]

2 admirals is a stretch for me imo, even if we don’t know ab Shanks’ strength

[supple magnet]

I can almost get behind that but the admiral and shanks strength are still too unknown

[dense wing]

I doubt Shanks would lose to 2

3 I can see it

[pure raven]

The fact Kizaru stepped down after seeing Beckman should be an indicator of strength and strength in relation to everyone else

[sand sail]

The only reason Shanks is an option for two to take down is because of what we know about him

[grizzled fog]

If you replace kaido with whitebeard against Akainu kaido definitely comes out with honestly probably minor damage assuming he’s serious

[sand sail]

The other 3 all have powers that directly work against anything the admirals could actually do

[dense wing]

This scene is too controversial for me imo

Kizaru could literally be trolling

[sand sail]

If it took less than 3 to end an Emperor, the balance wouldn't even make sense

[dense wing]

I don’t judge it as him being terrified of Beckman

[supple magnet]

He couldn’t have finished off akainu

[sand sail]

Kizaru was trolling, that wasn't a good scene lol

[sand sail]

He could have, easily. Akainu wasn't moving.

You can read back if you'd like, Akainu falls onto a rock and then slips into the ravine, the only movement he does is slightly speaking his last words before passing out

[supple magnet]

He was moving almost immediately after to make a hole to the surface and continue fighting

[grizzled fog]

Akainu’s unconscious body wasn’t gonna put up much of a fight

[sand sail]

He was not. He didn't get up again until after Whitebeard died

[dense wing]

Oh that I didn’t know

[sand sail]

That's how hard Whitebeard hit him, he knocked him out for the rest of Whitebeard's life

[dense wing]

Akainu was out out of it

Holy hell

[delicate sedge]

Kaido could probably swim in akainus magma transformed

[supple magnet]

WB also hit him with a surprise attack at the beginning of the fight giving him an advantage

[sand sail]

Yeh, people think he just bided his time or, the weirdest opinion I've seen so far, he spent the entire time from the ravine just traveling underground to get to Luffy a couple hundred feet away?

That wasn't an advantage lmao

[teal bay]

kizaru was overpowered by rayleigh who hasn't fought in years
aokiji was at same level of ace
mf akainu was playing bad and was yet thrown as a doll
this is enough to prove how weak they are

[sand sail]

Whitebeard had a chest filled with magma, multiple swords sticking out of him, and several hundred bullet wounds

On top of cannon balls

[dense wing]

Kizaru wasn’t overpowered by Rayleigh

Think Kizaru would beat him

[supple magnet]

Aokiji claps ace my dude

[sand sail]

There was no one in that entire war who had any kind of disadvantage against Whitebeard at any point lmao

Rayleigh was actually barely keeping up with Kizaru, Kizaru seemed to just be chilling out for the most part

Ray forced him to stay there, but he couldn't actually handle him beyond defending

[supple magnet]

A full power surprise hit to the face from whitebeard starts a fight off pretty poorly

[grizzled fog]

Aokiji was NOT at the same level of ace lol

[sand sail]

Yeah, not nearly as poorly as two heart attacks, a chest full of magma, and being turned into swiss cheese by every available weapon

Including the other admirals

[teal bay]

are you even looking for logic at this point you just want to prove that marines are overpowered forgetting show is about pirates and forgetting the content my dude
UwU clap cheeks

[sand sail]

You're reaching here, man, lol

[supple magnet]

Dude give me a single reason why ace beats aokiji

[sand sail]

Zoro, he's right. Aokiji dunks on Ace hard

Ace was not as strong as the admirals, he was just good enough to fight them, like the other commanders

[grizzled fog]

Kinda crazy to think that unlike whitebeard, there’s probably less than 5 marines who are even capable of damaging kaido or big mom. And likely not even significantly

[teal bay]

read the line again never said defeat . i said was at same level

[supple magnet]

Akainu low diffed ace and aokiji fought evenly with Akainu

[delicate sedge]

he is hot, also has fire

[supple magnet]

So a pokemon type advantage means ace would win?

[autumn dune]

I dont think aokiji and ace were the same level because we saw that akainu melted ace but aokiji withstood against akainu for 10 days. Ace just melted aokiji’s ice, it doesnt make that they were equal or something

[grizzled fog]

Aren’t at the same level either, Aokiji is quite a bit above him

[delicate sedge]

Its a joke bro, we cant compare them

[teal bay]

fire = ice < magma
clap cheeks

[supple magnet]

My response was also a joke

[supple magnet]

Can’t tell if you joking or not

[dense wing]

I’m gonna go on a limb and assume that Shanks is comparable to a slightly weaker Roger, so even if he isn’t as durable I’d hope his damage is insane

At this point him being the strongest CoC/ACoC user would accomplish that

[delicate sedge]

Magma includes stones and dirt, and fire is weak to earth tipes

[dense wing]

Alongside having Future sight

[supple magnet]

I think that shanks will fight almost exactly like Roger did

[dense wing]

I agree

[delicate sedge]

Probably, but without pistol

[dense wing]

Roger Shanks and Rayleigh same fighting style

Imo

Sword + punches + kicks

[supple magnet]

Prob mihawk too

[dense wing]

Mihawk is purely sword

[pure raven]

Mihawk doesn't do mobs

he does swipe and everything go shwoosh

[supple magnet]

From what we’ve seen Roger never fights without his sword

[grizzled fog]

I’m curious to know how Shanks would hold up if he had taken all the same hits that kaido has taken in Onigashima so far. Certainly not as well as kaido imo, and I think shanks wouldn’t allow most of those hits to land in the first place, but if he did he’d be in trouble.

[dense wing]

He was grabbing marines by the neck

[pure raven]

what poor marine is trying to take Mihawk again?

[dense wing]

I’d assume he was punching the crap out of them

[teal bay]

https://youtu.be/OGu0884-HU4 check this video he completely devoured his ice dude

[grizzled fog]

We’ve seen him fight like once

[supple magnet]

His durability doesn’t seem too special

[grizzled fog]

I think shanks might actually be dead if he’d taken all the same hits at kaido, not that he would

[dense wing]

Shanks can be like Kata Vem

Not as agile but like

He’d focus on dodging hits

Rather than tanking them

[grizzled fog]

I think he’ll be kinda like kata, but with WAYY stronger attacks and still being a lot more durable yea

[dense wing]

Yep

[supple magnet]

Was this in the manga?

[dense wing]

Think Kata with damage stronger than Kaido

[teal bay]

so you want manga proof lemme get it

[supple magnet]

Based on what we’ve seen aokiji is almost equal to akainu and akainu beats ace easily so aokiji wins as well

[supple magnet]

What you mean?

[dense wing]

As in like

[grizzled fog]

Hits harder

[dense wing]

Shanks isnt as tanky as BM or Kaido,

But with FS he’ll dodge attacks similarly to Kata

And hit back WAY harder

[supple magnet]

Oh okay I thought you meant that katakuri hits harder than Kaido and I was confused

[dense wing]

Yh

Honestly Kata has strong attacks but nothing of the likes of even G4

But that’s debatable

Like the actual strength of Buzzed Mochi

[supple magnet]

Pretty sure it’s not in the manga

[sand sail]

Katakuri had attacks as strong as Gear 4th, but he wasn't bringing out a King Kong Gun or anything

[teal bay]

i cant find the chapter online the one i found is on VIZ which is paid

[grizzled fog]

!mangawhere

[lone hedge]

<#🔗old-wiki message>

[grizzled fog]

You’re looking for this yes?

[teal bay]

yes

[grizzled fog]

A single panel clash doesn’t put ace on the same level of Aokiji at all

[supple magnet]

Dang I didn’t think that was in the manga

[teal bay]

i mean he was able to stop his ace and he was able to stop him

[maiden monolith]

Ace bounty was only 550k right? It seems so low for a commander

[sand sail]

He was only a commander for like...two years?

[supple magnet]

Aokiji is shown to have way better control over his logia than ace. He transformed his body to avoid a strong attack from whitebeard

[grizzled fog]

Consider how short his pirate career is yea

[dense wing]

550 is impressive

[supple magnet]

550M but yes

[dense wing]

Using Luffy as a standard is a bad call

In terms of bounty growth

[grizzled fog]

I mean luffy was at 500 before wci lol, and he was batting with commanders then

[maiden monolith]

I'm not using Luffy, but every other Yonko commanders

[supple magnet]

Honestly not too impressive for what we are dealing with currently

[dense wing]

They’ve been w their Yonko captain for like

Years

[grizzled fog]

Every other yonko commander has been established for years longer than ace

[dense wing]

Ace was w WB 2 years

[dense wing]

It’s a solid bounty even for NW

It means that Ace isn’t casually beatable by most

[maiden monolith]

Then compared to Luffy, he has been a pirate for 3 years or so

[supple magnet]

Yes but nothing too special its just solid

[dense wing]

Yeah

[supple magnet]

Ace is really powerful for his time in the story but he really doesn’t have the strength to crack the top 30 list

[teal bay]

broo where the spoilers at?? that just says that dont be angry if someone havn't met what you expected i am worried about that translator dude cuz people being angry at him

[grizzled fog]

Top 30? He might be

[dense wing]

@teal bay not in this channel

[teal bay]

ohh okki

[supple magnet]

Spoiler dude has some personal business to handle and that is said on the spoiler channel

[dense wing]

Ace may barely be in top 30

Though idk

I want to make a personal power ranking

Of top 50

[supple magnet]

I’d say he might barely make it but I think he’d get beat by sanji or doffy

[visual merlin]

top 30? nah

[supple magnet]

Sounds fun but I always end up forgetting people

[visual merlin]

even not including other dead characters, he probably wouldn't make that

[supple magnet]

Do y’all think rocks was stronger than Roger or whitebeard?

[visual merlin]

nah

[grizzled fog]

Definitely not

[maiden monolith]

You have Yonkos, commanders, Dragon, Sabo, Admirals, Shichibukais, pretty hard to be in the top 30 but possible tbh

[visual merlin]

more like 40 or 50 I imagine

[dense wing]

Rocks may be number 3

Of Roger WB

Like I can see him being up there

[maiden monolith]

I think Roger needed Garp's help because there were some powerful crew members like WB, Kaido, Big Mom, Shiki...

[supple magnet]

I either have him 3 or 1 honestly. It’s pure headcannon tho with little to know evidence

[dense wing]

Def

[dense wing]

I’d argue Rocks > Roger when they fought

[supple magnet]

My guess is that whitebeard betrayed rocks and helped Roger

[dense wing]

My b

[visual merlin]

I think rocks was about as strong as the yonko

[dense wing]

But prime Roger surpassed Rocks

[supple magnet]

There is a theme of betrayal recently and Kaido hates whitebeard for an unknown reason.

[sand sail]

Kaido doesn't hate Whitebeard

[dense wing]

Him going to MF wasnt out of hate

[visual merlin]

he just wants to fight him

[dense wing]

If anything he looks up to WB lol

He wants his dramatic death

[sand sail]

Yeh, he was actually sad about Whitebeard getting to do what he couldn't

[dense wing]

Wonder what Kaido’s whole MF plan was

Attack WB there?

Or intercept WB

[maiden monolith]

To wreak havoc in Marineford, because there were a lot of powerful opponents

[supple magnet]

Ok I just thought that implies there is a reason deeper than a good fight

[silk acorn]

That’s how I felt too, he respects whitebeard. He calls him old man whitebeard and Idk I didn’t think he ever talks about whitebeard in a harmful way

[gilded wagon]

Uh, we don’t know this for sure. We don’t know how the battle actually went we just know how it ended

[dense wing]

We don’t but I find it hard to believe that Roger and Primebeard didn’t surpass Rocks later

[supple magnet]

All we know is the end result

[supple magnet]

Lol nvm that’s what you said

[supple magnet]

It’s possible but rocks is too big of an unknown to say anything about his strength aside from the fact that he fought against the strongest in the series

[dense wing]

Well

He fought a younger Roger and Garp

[warm narwhal]

Does the spoilers actually go on the spoiler chat? There is usually something by now

[ancient vault]

if there was sth official it would be there. There isnt anything official yet tho

[supple magnet]

Could fujitora secretly have the strongest observation haki ever being able to fight and stuff while blind?

[visual merlin]

I doubt it's the strongest ever, but sure maybe

it's really good

though it's not like he's seeing something luffy for example can't see

[lusty hatch]

CP-0 will discover Vegapunk lied about the fake DF being a failure.
This will lead to Vegapunk leaving WG side eventually leading him to be an ally of SH.

[supple magnet]

Why would vagapunk side with the straw hats when he has no connection to them?

Aside from that I agree with your theory

[lusty hatch]

He does indirectly through Kuma and PH even

and I forsee him helping them in the future especially with SMILES

[supple magnet]

I personally think that if he doesn’t side with the marines he sided with the revolutionary army. Also I can picture chopper being able to cure the smile fruits

[lusty hatch]

Revolutionaries have their bootleg vegapunk the mink looking dude

[supple magnet]

Vegapunk really has potential to be an important figure in the revs more than the strawhats

Also I’m not sure who you’re talking about

[teal bay]

who??

[crystal quiver]

Lindhbergh

The jet pack cat

[supple magnet]

Forgot about him but he doesn’t strike me as someone like vegapunk

Also his design is really good

[teal bay]

he is a basic inventor and not scientist like vegapunk

[pure raven]

So I have a theory that I'm suprised I haven't seen anywhere else about Shiki. My theory is that Shiki floated up to the moon after escaping impel down since we don't know what actually canonnically happened to him after he escaped. Now you all proabably know that Enel is also currentley on the moon but as we see on the globe in Ohara, there are actually miltiple moons. And at the end of the cover story featuring enel, we see that he is now in control of an army of those robot soldiers. So here's what I think will happen. Shiki and Enel will eventually meet, clash, and then afterwards allign with each other, ( Idk maybe that part is a stretch but I feel like they could both get along because they both have big superiority complexes) and then finally conquer space, or at least all the moons in the surrounding area. Maybe they'd go on to challenge Luffy or the emporers or even the marines in the blue sea, but I doubt this sidestory could actually develop into the show in a way that impacts the plot. But then again the cow girl from aces cover story appeared when the rev army commanders were revealed and an abriged bersion of caribous cover story appeared in the anime. So idk.

[fathom matrix]

Here's a theory, what do you think will happen with the marines after the one piece is found and maybe the stuff about what happened in the void century is revealed?

[lusty hatch]

I think the Marines are separate from WG so they will stay in place but will be reformed to not serve the same WG aka Celestial dragons

[fathom matrix]

Like, they wouldn't go away or distband, but I can imagine that they would have to turn or reject the CDs and world nobels, probably have to pay for any masisve repairs and family damages that had been caused by some of their officers and the CDs, and people's opinions would not liking towards them for quite a while, but they have to earn back their trust, and there's no scary protection by the CDs to make people not speak out any negative comments towards them or the world goverment.

HELL, I can imagine either the WG being reformed or taken down

[fathom matrix]

yeah, I can imagine the older CDs being casted out or thrown in prison, but the younger CDs would have to be protected and sent to new families, or be re-educated to learn, "no, slavery and killing people is bad. Just because they don't have billion of beris, doesn't mean they're any less than you"

[teal bay]

WG is gonna be taken down

[lusty hatch]

WG has to be taken down they're the ones who came out strong after the void century
They've also been erasing anyone trying to find out the truth

[teal bay]

They have slaughtered people on the name of protection of justice and shit they haf to be taken down

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, but I can also see it as "at the same time, they have kinda been keeping the world stable as of now", so I can see it being reformed, as in "get rid of these 5 old guys and this cult looking leader, and actually make this fair with people that we can trust, because we still need some stable system to keep everything in check, just make sure it's not corrupt"

[lusty hatch]

not to mention they're still building random bridges with slave labor

can't wait to see what that's all about

[teal bay]

Yes that bridge there are lots of questions and no answer yet

[fathom matrix]

IDK, I think some CD wanted a bridge on a whim, and because of how fucked the WG is, they were like "yeah alright"

[teal bay]

I wanna know what happened to sabo in reverie and if he is captured there is gonna be a huge fight again ig

[fathom matrix]

I think they killed Cobra and blamed Sabo

[turbid plover]

And probably kidnapped vivi too

[fathom matrix]

I think it's too obvious that they would send him for execution or kill him, so I'm guessing that he got away, and so they were like "well, if he's getting away with attacking the holy land, may as well hit two birds with one stone" and so they killed cobra who was snooping for information or a talk, blamed Sabo.

Of that did happen, but they captured Sabo

[lusty hatch]

But were they able to rescue Kuma

I have theory about how his brain damage can be reversed but it depends on Bonney's fruit.
If Bonney's fruit returns a user to a certain age then she can just reverse Kuma to before the brain damage was done.

[weary cliff]

That's a slippery slope to having the best healing DF

[lusty hatch]

I'm sure it has its drawbacks just like Law's room isn't infinite and Marco's healing isn't infinite iether

[supple magnet]

That is interesting but after the movie with shiki I don’t see oda doing it. I was trolling the #manga chat about a moon arc but it’s probably unlikely. I still think the moon has some interesting lore and I would like to know more about it

[reef grotto]

why is cp0 involved in wano?

[pure raven]

they buy weapons from wano now directly

before they used doflamingo

[reef grotto]

so the outcome they want to ensure is the loss of the straw hats

[pure raven]

yes that would be in their favor

[supple magnet]

They might also play a role in the raid considering no matter which side wins the WG benefits from it

[pure raven]

i dont think they will join the fight. it would be too much for the alliance to handle

[supple magnet]

I was more thinking about the aftermath of the fight if Kaido loses they can swoop him up and take him into custody

[pure raven]

yeah that maybe

[reef grotto]

but they said that it would be favorable to them if they eliminate each other as much as possible. That sounds like they don't have one or two specific objectives but plan to outright finish all the remaining combatants themselves

[pure raven]

yeah ultimately weakening yonkos is better than buying weapons for other reasons

[supple magnet]

That’s true but it doesn’t make sense plot wise for them to eliminate the straw hats/ beast Pirates now

[reef grotto]

what I'm saying is, "weakening the yonkos" sounds like a vague goal, while ensuring weapon trade goes smoothly sounds like a relatively unimportant task for a force such as cp0

isn't it more likely they have some secret objective we don't know about?

[reef grotto]

the way it could go is they come in when the fight is almost finished and the straw hats escape while big mom chases after them

[supple magnet]

I can see that happening

[pure raven]

when they came, they didn't know what might happen. Not sure if they were expecting this

[reef grotto]

this doesn't convince me a lot though because it would mean the fights with cp0 would be left unfinished

[supple magnet]

An outcome where Kaido loses and big mom makes it out is actually what I want to see. Even if cp0 is strong they can’t be strong enough to interfere with an angry big mom

[reef grotto]

and the alliance too isn't strong enough to take down big mom after kaido imo

[pure raven]

yeah i don't expect big mom to be caught or anything similar

[supple magnet]

I agree especially since law and kid can’t win right now without any major power buffs

[reef grotto]

so uhhhh maaaaaybe the cp0, the alliance and BM fight each other, with one of them allying themselves with one of the others while the others are chased away or beaten

[supple magnet]

Big mom could go down in a later arc like elbaph or just live on and do her own thing

[pure raven]

who will handle the big mom pirates tho? i think they will be tired after fighting kaido

[reef grotto]

are they even coming at this point?

[pure raven]

they might come, who knows

[reef grotto]

if the big mom pirates come a big question is if cracker and katakuri would come as well

[pure raven]

we didn't see them on the ship actually

[reef grotto]

the rest of the straw hats doesn't look strong enough to beat katakuri and even then we've already seen him fight, it would be boring

[supple magnet]

Cp0 might not even have a big role. A way I see it is Big mom is somewhat weakened after a fight with law and kid almost how Kaido is now, and cp0 fights her thinking they might have a chance since she’s weakened. Then her crew could show up or she could just win normally and cp0 would be out of the picture

[reef grotto]

but katakuri should be healed by now, so id doesn't make sense for him not to come