#manga-theories

1 messages · Page 104 of 1

compact glade
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We haven't seen anything from the revo army so how should we know

grizzled fog
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How so

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We haven’t seen them fight except for sabo and dragon lol. And sabo is a beast

weary cliff
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Sabo clowned on Burgess. The other commanders we saw vs peachbeard seem like they'll be capable

dusk willow
grizzled fog
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Yes he is

dusk willow
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might be weaker than we think

grizzled fog
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Stronger than we think is more likely, since a whole lot of people think Burgess is incredibly weak

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He hasn’t gotten a devil fruit yet anyway, so he has plenty of room to grow

pseudo swan
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People underestimate black beard, he took down ace without white beards fruit and full haki training

grizzled fog
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How do people underestimate him?

covert hazel
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I've seen some people shit on BB, saying he doesn't deserve his power cos he's apparently being carried by his fruit

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Yeah I disagree, but I've seen people saying it

weary cliff
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I think you can be carried by your fruit. Wasn't it Pekoms who brought up how often Logia users get over reliant and cocky, then hit the new world and get wrecked by CoA users? You have Enel's out there who just stand out for having an op fruit

dusky acorn
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@feral pike Please refer to the channel topic & keep beyond impossible scenarios out of here

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People hinging greatly on their fruits is definitely a real thing

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Don't think it stands well for Blackbeard's case though, considering how recent he got it compared to his age

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It's what elevated him to the next level for sure, but he's strong in his own right without it, which is the whole point Shanks was trying to drive to WB

proud tree
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theory: Cesars Shino Kuni poison gas wapeon will be used in Wano Kuni. Kid already knows about it (he listened to Cesars presentation). Luffy and crew also already knows. Shino Kuni being used in Wano Kuni would be a word play.

pure raven
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When BB fought ace it didn’t seem like he had haki, so he’s ability to hit ace came from his yami fruit there is a chance BB wouldn’t have beat ace without the fruit power, and now he has another powerful fruit

cedar sinew
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it's also repetitive because it overlaps with Queen's poison

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no one even has access to Caesar's poison except for like Caesar himself

proud tree
pure raven
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Ooooh wait

proud tree
versed hamlet
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how would it be a word play though

pure raven
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Actually that does bring into something quite intriuging.
Cause like... Orochi, assuming he'll be alive after the fact, is kinda fucked.

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He's lost Kaido's backing and if Kaido does take over Wano, then what are the implications of that?

dusky acorn
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Poison gas doesn't seem like it will play any part of the Wano conflict, going off Inu's words which Jack himself wasn't shown to rebuke

cedar sinew
proud tree
cedar sinew
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before the poison fully effects the person

dusky acorn
versed hamlet
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they just have the word 'country' in it (kuni), its not really a word play more like a commonality. also wano does not mean japanese it's its own word

cedar sinew
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that's how kinemon and g5 were saved in punk hazard.

cedar sinew
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he's on the run from BM AND Kaido now. Literally no reason for him to come to Wano and go against the SHs

proud tree
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or maybe cesar just returns to Punk Hazard ... and hides there

cedar sinew
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Don't think Kaido wants to protect someone who couldn't protect the SAD factories which directly affected his business

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There're a lot of other lokey places Caesar could hide in. He could disguise himself as well

pure raven
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Wasn't he with Bege?

cedar sinew
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he flew away

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got his heart back from bege

pure raven
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right right

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I don't think we gonna be seeing Caesar but I'm more intrigued about the ramifications of what is going to happen should the straw hats actually lose

proud tree
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after Kaido threw himself off the skyisland, Hawkins mentions there is a legend of a skyisland where monsters live. So is this kaidos favorite sky island for some reason?

unknown.png
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Why is there a legend of monsters living on Baloon terminal?

cedar sinew
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just fairy tail or old rumors?

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not sure what you mean by Kaido's favorite sky island. He probably jumped off a random one

shrewd spade
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I kinda expect Luffy to adapt a Gear 4th form dedicated for him just to catch up... and maybe hit Kaido so much force he'll fly like how Cracker did (thinking along the lines of a rocket)

Or he'll just take most of his third time in Gear 4th moving in Boundman form just to catch up

Either way I don't believe Luffy'll fall in water

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wait I'm confused on how Udon is close to the sea

cedar sinew
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how will he go g4 if he's unconscious

shrewd spade
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would he get a chance to rest?

proud tree
cedar sinew
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chance to rest mid air?

shrewd spade
cedar sinew
cedar sinew
proud tree
cedar sinew
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apoo and hawkins joined Kaido. Kidd refused to join. That's what happened

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it wasn't planned

pure raven
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Apoo had already betrayed them didn’t he?

grizzled fog
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Yes apoo was aligned with Kaido before he even joined kid’s alliance

dusky acorn
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I assume the legend of monsters in the skies above Kid's hideout is in reference to whatever ancient civilisation used to live on Balloon Terminal

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The only caveat being Oda dubs Balloon Terminal as a wandering island in the SBS

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So with this, we'd need to assume it doesn't stray off too far from that general area even in spite of it perpetually drifting

proud tree
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or this legend is somehow related to kaido and the beast pirates

dusky acorn
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I think it's both, actually. I've talked about this theory before, but basically if I were to take it a step further, the kind of monsters that lived on Balloon Terminal at one point was King's race.

A:- "Monsters" fits well wtih the general fierce look King seems to have with his wild fire, black wings, tall figure, and spikes.

B:- It's a ruined sky island that lost all its people.

  • King coincidentally comes from a very hard to find race. He also has wings as if his people evolved on some sort of sky island.

C:- Kaido went there himself, who is a character who has a connection to King. This point is loose considering Kaido went to the hideout for another goal entirely, but him merely knowing about the existence of the specific sky island to fly all those metres up there speaks for itself.
Him knowing King could have given him this knowledge, rather than it being a big coincidence for him to have been flying that high up to randomly find it.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but sky islands aren't in every stretch of the sky possible

modest skiff
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Right, there are huge gaps just like the ocean

gritty forge
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my theory is that vegapunks actually a woman and is luffys mother

-would make sense because the government is forcing him/her to build the ssg

-why dragon has such a strong hatred towards the wg

modest skiff
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Shimon, can you link me to information about Kaido going to that place? I remember knowing Kaido jumped off an island but I don't remember it being said where he was

dusky acorn
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It's chapters 793 and 795. Urouge's crew first reacts to someone being on the island, then we actually see Kaido right there in the latter chapter

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We never see him actually in the midst of heading there, so can't definitively say it was a coincidence or not that he did find it

dusky acorn
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Unless you're saying originally, which I find even unliklier

pure raven
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Mad monk dodged a bullet, Kaido was so close to him and he didn’t get conscripted into the beast pirates or thrown in jail

modest skiff
proud tree
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thats the only thing we get to see in 793 about kaidos aproach

unknown.png
amber oar
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Also, Oda has been quite open in the fact Luffy's biological mother is irrelevant, may never appear in the manga, and by all purposes the only maternal figure to Luffy is Dadan

pure raven
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I hope we get something on zoros background this arc

grim oyster
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like what? his parents?

pure raven
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That would be nice, he seems to be the only straw hat we don’t Have anything like that about. I know same goes for franky, brook but zoro is first mate, first straw hat after luffy we met

grim oyster
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it would be nice but i dont see how it would fit into wano, unless zoro somehow gets back into the fight does another asura thing and we see like a faint image of ryuma behind him (which is highly un likely)

amber oar
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I think we won't get anything else, also I think Oda intended to put something but couldn't find space. My reasoning:

  • Oda made a gag character called Minatomo back in East Blue, and then a real character with identical name and design in Wano (Franky's boss). Someone pointed it out in a SBS and Oda explained they were related, because a ship left Wano and reached East Blue long ago. He didn't go further and teased he may develop further on this.

  • Much later Oda put the whole storyline with Kuina's family line in a SBS, and unlike the Minatomo question, he gave the answer a closure and didn't tease anything else. My thought is that he decided to bring it all in the SBS because he already had given up on including it in the manga.

junior cape
pure raven
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Apparently those shadows were just shadows of the skypiea people

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Like how luffys shadow was also at the end of the arc

junior cape
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Yeah I know

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I'm saying the same phenomenon happened in Ballon Terminal, which caused the superstitions down below.

pure raven
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Ohhh mb I don’t read it properly

junior cape
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No worries. In a series with as much interconnected DEEP LORE as One Piece, it's fine.

pseudo swan
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Ok so katakuri is still in totland And most of the big mom heavy hitters are gone, is black beard going for big moms road poneglyph, and going to kill katakuri

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I do not know if this has been said before sorry if it’s unoriginal

pure raven
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Kaido can flywhere ever he wants

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Since i believe Two Yonko's won't die in one arc, and since Big Mom is being built up since fishman island (even thriller bark if u consider lola) she won't die in someone else's arc (kaido's arc).

So i think, there is a chance for Big Mom + Straw hats, vs BB.
With the Rep Katakuri has with Luffy, and Big mom not caring if a child or two dies (i am talking about you PerosPero).

feral pike
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I have a theory that 99.9% of theories in PIN are wrong. Oda will make sure that theorist will be slapped in their face

pseudo swan
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There is no way big mom is still in the story post wano

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She has definitely overstayed her welcome

pure raven
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A yonko dying is big deal, and Yonko's don't lose they die. so two yonkos losing aka dying at one place idk man

feral pike
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luffy wont kill anyone. Blackbeard or CP0 are the only one capable of killing yonkous 😅

pure raven
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Also one more thing, apart from like wanting to Kill Judge and Fam, Big Mom hasn't really done anything bad to Straw hats, she has tried yes. but she hasn't hurt anyone.

Then there is the big Idea of uniting all people of the world, although her methods are questionable. She's got the right idea.

Something akin to what many theorist say about JoyBoy's big party.

and with Tama friendship, although she tried to kill her too.

There seems an oppurtunity for an alliance.

feral pike
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Big mom in wano Oda will make sure old era will be erased 😅

pseudo swan
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As long as big mom doesn’t stay as an antagonist I’m cool, alliance would be cool and death would be cool

pure raven
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the other day I read a theory about Big Mom's desperation to make Giant friends and Ussop's rep as a Giant Friend.
Could be the Link that builds an Alliance.

Cause after all, Ussop's gotta top being a God. The best way to do that is turn a Yonko into a friend.

feral pike
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Im thinking another strong force which luffy or kaido/bigmom cannot defeat will enter wano. maybe one of the elders or imu sama himself 🤣

pure raven
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Doubt. cause You don't interfere when Men fight.
Men = Luffy and Kaido.

feral pike
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Thats how Oda think remember thriller bark? lol

pure raven
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Oars > Man.

dusk willow
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yamato was going to help luffy, and probably save him

pseudo swan
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Kaido= gecko Moria

pure raven
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Oars is Legend so is Oars Jr. Rip Oars Jr.

dusk willow
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Oars JR. > Man

proud tree
pseudo swan
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Who equals kuma??

dusk willow
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she has to be

pure raven
dusk willow
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because luffy said he will come back to WC and whoop her ass like whip cream

feral pike
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Someone that will trigger Shanks to move

pseudo swan
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Mihawk woild cause shanks to move

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Perfect time for mihawk to arrive too coz zoro is completely out for the count and cannot fight at the moment so it’d delay their fight till the end end

feral pike
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It must be one of the elders/imu sama/ blackbeard

dusk willow
pseudo swan
pure raven
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Shanks stopped partying since BB became a Yonko. BB worries Shanks

proud tree
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theory: chapter 1014 was kanjuros sacrifice: he drew a fake figure of Kinemon and pretended to die with him.

dusk willow
feral pike
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So i think blackbeard was targetting Law’s devil fruit. He needs that immortality operation

grizzled fog
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Why on earth would mihawk come to wano

dusk willow
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fr

visual plinth
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did people forget marines were gonna attack mihawk's island? do ppl actually think mihawk will just suddenly appear in wano too wrapped up in head canons UsoppSus

dusk willow
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what do you guys think the straw hats bounties and laws bounties are gonna be after wano

grizzled fog
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I don’t even think mihawk can feasibly make it to wano within that timeframe lmao, ignoring the numerous other issues with the idea

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He’ll be too busy fighting for his life with an admiral anyway

dusk willow
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whos going after mihawk?

proud tree
grizzled fog
dusk willow
proud tree
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kanjuro played his own suicide in 1014: he drew how kinemon kills him.

visual plinth
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doubt it

dusk willow
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no. kanjuro really wants to die. he said its so fitting that kinemon kills him. also kanjuro doesnt want to be himself thats why he took the spy job for orochi

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hes glad to play another part in a "play" so he doesnt have to be himself

visual plinth
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if BM and Kaido do go down this arc then probably luffy would have a bounty around 3-4 bil I'd say

dusk willow
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i think the crews bounty will be under no more than 500,000 except for chopper

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choppers will be 1,000 lmao. maybe imshooting to high'

oak mural
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poor chopper

pure raven
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idk why people keep obsessing about someone coming to Wano. No one is coming to Wano, no one wants to Come to wana (except my man Kizaru, whom Akainu won't allow).

dusk willow
visual plinth
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wano already has enough characters no one is realistically coming to wano until everything is resolved

feral pike
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CP0 is already in wano logic pls

oak mural
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the navy doesnt have force to contain two yonkos

dusk willow
feral pike
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so TWG is interested in wano

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So CP0 will do the last hit when the yonkos and luffy are super weak

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Imu sama and the elders i think will make their move

oak mural
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i want rob lucci vs luffy fight once more lol

feral pike
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CP0 was not enough they need reinforcement

visual plinth
pure raven
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Luffy must be much stronger than Lucci at this point

oak mural
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rob would also have improved but luffy is way stronger than rob

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i think luffy and shanks will have roger and whitebeard like relation

pure raven
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i think, bigmom is kinda based on Queen Victoria, she also used to marry her kids in political alliance, by the time she was old, She was like The GrandMum of every European Monarch

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aka Big Mom

proud tree
pure raven
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didn't say she is exact copy of her, just she is based of her

amber oar
oak mural
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shanks and luffy will be rivals eventually

amber oar
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At some point Shanks will stand in Luffy's way to be PK, but that's very different from a long term rivalry

round agate
grizzled fog
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Don’t think their relationship will ever be comparable to a rivalry

amber oar
pure raven
pure raven
sonic plaza
grizzled fog
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2b is way too high for zoro, there’s pretty much no way he can possibly be higher than law. Even 1.5 is a bit much I’d say

sonic plaza
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100k - 120k
300k - 320k

grizzled fog
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Ah it’s that pattern.

sonic plaza
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also zoro should be stronger than king after wano (who likely has slightly less than luffy rn)

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and he will be top 5 at the end of the series, so he deserves a lot, like luffy

grizzled fog
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Being stronger than king doesn’t mean he needs a higher bounty, not how that works, and he’s probably got another bounty raise or two after this arc anyway, this won’t be his final bounty

sonic plaza
grizzled fog
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I don’t think that would make much of an impact

sonic plaza
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its a pretty big deal cause the potentiality of learning imbument allows for insanely strong attacks

grizzled fog
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Yes they did, but even if they did find out about it which they probably wouldn’t, I still don’t think they’d necessarily increase it on that alone. At least not by much at all

sonic plaza
pastel summit
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okay and? Luffy's bounty went up from 300m to 400m from ID AND Marineford. That's after he was the centre of the largest breakout in ID history, as well as showing CoC in Marineford.

sonic plaza
pastel summit
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yeah, and it was only 100m increase. you're saying zoro will get 1.5b because WG will find out he has CoC? CoC he can't even control?

sonic plaza
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they gave a weak luffy who couldnt even control it an increase because of it

pastel summit
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his bounty is close to Luffy at that time. same time when luffy used CoC that he couldn't control.

grizzled fog
sonic plaza
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maybe he finally learns it then

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cause i think the key to him beating mihawk will be through advanced conquerers

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and wano would be the perfect chance to introduce his conq

pastel summit
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what does that have anything to do with his bounty? Your logic for zoro getting 1.5b was that he has CoC. but when you apply the same logic to Luffy, with a very similar bounty, his bounty only went up to 400m, and that's including the stuff he did at impel down.

light pond
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I bet they will add 500k to all of the bounties

sand relic
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I think after this arc both Sanji and Zoro will start being in that Commander range of anywhere between 600mil-1.3 bil

gleaming lintel
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i feel like luffys will be around 2b. it’s based off of how much the government fears you and look at all the things he’s done before that made his bounty only go up 100m.. unless something chaotic happens that would make raising his bounty a couple billion reasonable, it’d be jumping the gun for him to get one that’s 3b or higher

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maybe 3b at the max

grizzled fog
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I mean he went up by a whole ass bil last arc, and defeating a yonko is way more impressive than anything he did in wci

gleaming lintel
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yeah true

grizzled fog
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3bil is perfectly reasonable

last void
grizzled fog
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Those are all way too high

surreal pelican
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agreed

pastel summit
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sanji and zoro will be like 900-1b.

visual plinth
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zoro is not gonna be over 2 bill lol 1.5 at best mostly likely 900m- 1b

pastel summit
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around about triple their current bounties imo.

grizzled fog
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Luffy 3 bil
Kid 2.4 bil
Law 1.8 bil
Zoro 700-1.1 bil
Sanji 700-1.1 bil
Jinbe 600-900 bil
Franky 350 mil
Robin 400 mil
Brook 300 mil
Nami 150 mil
Usopp 300 mil (?)
Chopper 500 berries - 100 mil
My predictions

visual plinth
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yea that's more likely

pastel summit
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seems about right, yeah. I think Luffy and Kid will be like 2.5 and 2 respectively.

pure raven
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i expect both Zoro and Sanji to cross 1b

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along with Ussop

pastel summit
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I don't think Usopp is doing anything crazy this arc that gets him a huge bounty

pure raven
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yet

pastel summit
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so 250/300m seems about right.

pure raven
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in ussop's world, crazy does Ussop

pastel summit
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No, just not at all. The only person close to sugar is bao huang, and she's not core to kaido's operation like sugar was for doffy.

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You don't need to meme here. Keep it serious.

pure raven
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who made that rule?

pastel summit
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the moderators.

pure raven
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i ain't memeing anyway

formal quest
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I think ussop will have another moment like Dressrosa and then have higher bounty than Brook and Franky

pure raven
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oda is memeing

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oda will pull a fast one like always

grizzled fog
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Yea I don’t think usopp will have another crazy moment like that this arc, not much room for that. I think he won’t get anything too major til elbaf

pure raven
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tbh he didn't do anything major in Dressrosa either, it's justpeople interpreted it wrong

pastel summit
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Yeah but what moment? The whole thing with Dressrosa was purely that Doffy got pissed at Usopp, and put him as a 5* bounty.

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He did do something major. He pissed off Doffy incredibly. He destroyed the core of Doffy's operation, which was Sugar. Once Sugar was out, Doffy was exposed, which forced his hand.

pure raven
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what is core to onigashima? momo?

pastel summit
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The person who is core to Kaido's operation is Kaido. Unless Usopp is beating Kaido himself, he's not going to do something to that degree.

pure raven
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all Kaido really cares about is dying gloriously

pseudo pewter
ancient vault
leaden cargo
dark palm
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bao huang is an option for him

pastel summit
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What did he do in PH that was crazy?

dark palm
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caesar handcuffs LUL

grizzled fog
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I can’t even remember him in ph ngl

pastel summit
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Bao Huang is pretty much the only thing I can see Usopp really doing. Which is useful, but it's not KO'ing Sugar levels of useful.

night jewel
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I think something usopp can do is make a false announcement through bao huang regarding Kaido's defeat, which momentarily crushes the hopes of Beast Pirates. Not really sure what else has been setup for him so yea, it wont be anything too big

grizzled fog
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Usopp totally carried in wci

night jewel
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Didnt he take over the control room in PH? I need to reread but I remember something like that

pastel summit
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idr what he did either. was a genuine question.

grizzled fog
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Oh yea I think he helped convince some fodder that Caesar was full of hot air (hehe)?

pastel summit
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but he didn't have much presence in that arc. similar to wano atm. he's kind of been in the background, and has been overshadowed by nami and tama.

grizzled fog
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I’m proud of that joke

wild turret
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Where is Marco bounty

last void
keen portal
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Yes and WB's bounty was 5b+. Blackbeard was the one who killed him AND stole his fruit. Later defeated the remnants of WB pirates again

Did BB gain a 5 bil bounty?

last void
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Tbh he was Already Sick and Old,Almost on the verge of Death

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So it ain't count.Plus his Bounty s Already 2.247B

keen portal
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So if he was sick and old and on the verge of death, why wasn't his bounty lowered? Does that make WB not worth his 5 bil bounty then?

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By your logic, defeating a yonko immediately transfers a similar bounty over to the person who defeats/kills them

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Why shouldn't killing a man with 5 bil bounty give BB a 5 bil bounty raise, no matter what the external circumstances were?

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"it ain't count" only when it goes against your argument, it seems

surreal pelican
pure raven
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BB didn't kill WB

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BB just came back to Marineford at right time.

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A couple of things Killed WB, but if u wanna attribute it to a person, u can say it was Akainu, although even he wasn't 100% responsible

icy obsidian
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Yo What?time?do we get New stuffs🥶💥💖

keen portal
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Oh pls. Don't get into semantics. The credit for killing WB off goes to BB and his crew.
It was broadcasted for all the world to see.

And BB was the one who got his fruit

visual plinth
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BB killed WB it's as simple as that he landed the killing blow u tripping if u think otherwise yea others might have contributed to it but BB did kill WB

pure raven
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BB made multiple shots, that did little to no harm to WB, he then gave his speech and died.

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WB was already on verge of death when he arrived at Marineford. By the time BB arrived he was already a dead man walking, it was just his intense will that was keeping him going

keen portal
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Does any of that matter when literally the world considers BB as the man who killed WB

visual plinth
#

exactly

surreal pelican
keen portal
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So then the argument is that they will consider all this for BB.

But won't consider all of the multiple people who have fought kaido besides luffy? And give only luffy the credit for kaido's defeat in the end?

For the argument that luffy is going to get a 4.5 bil bounty for defeating kaido

surreal pelican
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i dont think luffy will get 4.5

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that dude dumb af

last void
keen portal
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Personally, even though I do give credit for killing WB to BB, I too don't think he should have gotten all of WB's bounty transferred over to him. As you said, there are other circumstances to consider.

But you can't have a special law or argument that only works for luffy and not work for other characters similarly.

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I was arguing that side as a rhetoric to prove how wrong that argument is

surreal pelican
surreal pelican
open vortex
#

today no manga spoilers RobinHUH

pastel summit
pure raven
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So Marines win the war and give credit to someone else. Yeah a likely story.

pastel summit
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that too.

pure raven
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as if Akainu the new Field Admiral will let anyone tell him that he wasn't the one who killed Whitebeadd

keen portal
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Wasn't that entire sequence broadcasted accidentally by buggy? It doesn't matter then what akainu wants to claim when everyone else in the world saw the following things in sequence:

Injured WB facing off against BB and his crew.
Being riddled with hundreds of bullets and being stabbed.
Die standing afterwards.
BB steals his fruit.

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Again, choc. That isn't quite what I'm arguing. Yeah a lot of things culminated in WB's death

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I'm not saying BB was the only and single factor in his death. Just the final and arguably the more decisive one.

surreal pelican
keen portal
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When exactly was buggys transmission cut off? Can't remember exactly

pastel summit
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but where is it stated the world's opinion? Are you only saying the world is too retarded to tell WB had half his face missing, see BB crew shoot him, WB still lives enough to shout his speech, then dies and goes "wow, BB killed WB!"?

surreal pelican
pastel summit
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I do not think BB was even close to being the decisive factor in WB's death.

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and I do not think many people really consider him to be as such. within the world of OP.

keen portal
#

Mmm if by decisive you mean that without BB, could WB have died regardless? Certainly. WB was not making it out of MF alive anyway

#

But regardless, the final shots were fired by BB weren't they

surreal pelican
#

as far as my understanding is, BB got his bounty increase from taking over whitebeards territory after marineford, not solely from shooting WB a couple times

pure raven
#

here is the visual the world saw, BB and his crew fire shit tonne of Bullets at WB. And then they realise it's doing nothing to him. they all fall down in despair as their bullets run out. Then WB gives a speech and mentions One Piece and then Dies , Still standing on his own two feet

pastel summit
#

Sure. but why does that matter? You shoot something that's already dying because someone else shot it before you, that doesn't mean you killed it. This isn't a game, there's no killstealing where you get the kill credit for getting in the last shot. WB was dying whether BB did anything or not.

#

so whatever BB did doesn't matter.

pure raven
#

yes , BB's bounty went up when he beat Marco-tachi at payback war

night jewel
#

well, atleast the WBP went to war against BB so they definitely blame him for whitebeard's death. I am not sure if "BB killed WB" was directly stated though

pure raven
#

they don't blame him for his death but for stealing his fruit and for "ace's deeath

#

which in a way led to his death, but he was already dying.

pastel summit
#

They blame him for killing Thatch, and breaking one of the crew's rules, as well as directly going against WB. Idk if they blame him for killing WB. They're not idiots, they saw what Akainu did.

pure raven
#

If someone killed WB it was Akainu

#

but what really killed whitebeard was time. it was end of his era

pastel summit
#

Again, nothing changes if BB crew doesn't shoot WB. Maybe he lives for a few more minutes, but he was still going to die.

pure raven
#

had to make way for the new era

night jewel
#

no they dont care about the devil fruit, not sure why they would lmao. And he didnt kill ace himself either so its not that too. BB is directly responsible for both ace and WB's deaths, so they do blame him for that

pastel summit
#

the point of that scene was BB fully breaking off any relationship he had to WB. Directly shooting his "father"

pure raven
#

Stealing DF is like a big disrespecr

#

also BB had come to Marineford with a plan to steak a DF

pastel summit
#

and also to show WB still being able to move after everything.

keen portal
#

Saying is "all of their bullets did nothing to him" is false in my opinion. If they truly did absolutely nothing, then he should not have died then and there.

Yes WB was on his last legs. Yes he would have died few minutes or hours after, regardless. But you can't count or say that those last bits of life weren't directly stolen off by BB and his crew's direct actions.

The very last thing that happened to him before he died standing was getting bullets and swords thrown at him. And he gave his speech after that and died.

pure raven
#

he didn't die then and there

pastel summit
#

Sure, they did something. but they weren't the main factor. They were A factor, definitely not the main one, definitely not significant.

pure raven
#

dyiing then and there means instantly, he gave a full on speech after tha

pastel summit
#

the bullets didn't kill him, it was everything on top of the bullets. He didn't die then and there, because he was still alive enough to speak.

pure raven
#

we can argue all day, the truth is no one killed WhiteBeard. Whitebeard saw the battle was over so he closed his eyes and left.

#

Moving on.

keen portal
#

Yes this was only a rhetoric argument brought up by me in the original argument against luffy getting a 4.5 bil bounty for defeating kaido and BB getting a 2.2 bil bounty for stealing WB's fruit, defeating remnants of WB crew, and indirectly or directly (however you wish to view it) causing the mf incident resulting in WB's ultimate death

pure raven
#

luffy ain't getting 4.5. Shanks doesn't has 4.5

#

Luffy's bounty is already way too high

#

i think luffy won't beat kaido alone. he will get help, from zoro or from law or kid.
The first Yonko he beats will be Shanks or BB.

pastel summit
#

yeah but BB was by far not even close to the main reason why WB died. Luffy would be one of, if not the main reason Kaido would be defeated. So there's a better line of logic there. I do not think he will get a 4.5b bounty since he's not going to beat Kaido alone, but the same logic was kinda used for beating katakuri. He beat a strong dude, so he completely overshadowed his bounty. If Luffy came out as being called the sole reason why Kaido was defeated, him having 4.5b+ would make sense. same if BB was called the sole reason why WB died. It'd be make sense for his bounty to be over 5b. because there's precedent for that.

night jewel
#

@harsh meteor no memes here, go to #memes but be sure to spoiler tag it before posting it

river plaza
pure raven
river plaza
#

That'll be awesome

pure raven
#

just realises there are only 5 alive Ds. Luffy, dragon, garp, teach and law

river plaza
#

Makes sense

surreal pelican
pure raven
#

oh i just assumed it was obvious

river plaza
#

I wonder if shanks has D in his name

last void
#

I am pretty sure he does

muted veldt
#

S H A N K S

Uhh nope

pseudo pewter
cerulean coyote
worthy belfry
#

any theory to save luffy in ocean and heal him

heady cairn
weak arrow
heady cairn
pure raven
heady cairn
visual plinth
#

every time i see the "luffy gonna use haki underwater it's hinted in the opening" theory i wanna punch my fkin screen

sly pilot
pure raven
visual plinth
#

i wasn't, was shit worse?

pure raven
#

What the people yelling bring Zunesha to Wano, don't understand is that a bunch of Civillians live atop Zunesha. I know a lot of Minks came to fight, but i am pretty sure they must have left the kids , the old, the sick at home.
So bringing Zunesha to Wano is like same as retreating them to what Jack did to them but at Kaido Scale.

#

Zunesha is not coming to wano, it has to be ordered to do anything else than wall and walk aimlessly

zinc iris
pure raven
#

one funny way to save ruffy, the octopus from the beginning after saving ruffy - act3 end

#

luffy should go Balloon and release air from his mouth to steer, so he can get away before hitting the watrr

#

Hes in the water

zinc iris
pure raven
#

So far we’ve only seen momo can command him, so he woulda had to give the order when he was there and oda didn’t show us lol

zinc iris
#

No really Luffy isn't going to save himself even for a matter of theme, he will be saved by someone else

pure raven
zinc iris
pure raven
#

Yeah luffy has to be saved by someone else or something, hes unconcious underwater so he cant use DF powers to escape. There is no alternate way out of this.

#

so we need a person, who can swim, and fly back to the floating island.

#

Why be so specific? This is one piece not real life.

#

this is manga-theories not general

#

?

#

we make theories here. that's why so specific

#

Your point is ?

zinc iris
pure raven
#

Being specific has no correlation with a theory, you just made an exclamation on what you think will happen, you didnt purpose a theory

#

ah a rebel.

pure raven
zinc iris
pure raven
#

or Sanji in raid suit

zinc iris
pure raven
#

raid suit will be faster

#

unless he wanna take time

zinc iris
#

Raid suit doesn't really make him faster than he already is

#

It's more resistant + strong + invis

pure raven
#

i am just a simple north blue boy who wants to see Stealth black in action.

actually it should in theory make it faster cause when he Geppos he is just jumping , while raid suit has Jets

#

Sanji is fighting at the moment, couldnt see him saving luffy anytime soon, he would have much too far to run... luffy would have drown before he got there

#

fighting whom?

zinc iris
pure raven
#

when has fodder held anyone back

#

When your presumably injured from past fights and holding a destroyed nakama on your back i suppose fodder could hold you back

#

put on the raid suit, dump marimo and go superman

zinc iris
#

Also another problem is almost nobody actually knows Luffy fell in the sea, only that he was defeated by kaido

visual plinth
#

no wonder crackpot theories exist ppl don't even read the chapter properly

fathom matrix
#

There's 2 ideas people have

#

The YOOOO Octopus or the Heart Pirates save him

zinc iris
#

Lol

pastel summit
#

not the octopus. it'll most likely be heart pirates at this point.

pure raven
#

Back in Alabasta, Crocoboi burys luffy in sand, the one who saves him is Robin.
See anyone from opposing side, who may be Robin like.

zinc iris
last void
#

Hmm

#

Btw is Yamato a DF user?

weak arrow
#

That or her mother was a fishman

#

the former being more likely imo

pure raven
#

a Dragon and a Fishwoman make baby. yum yum

fathom matrix
#

we don't know, but there's some ideas that she has a mythical tiger zoan, kaido's zoan DNA might have changed her, or she's just....IDK, yeah, maybe part fishman

pure raven
#

does have horns

tired osprey
#

kirin yamato SanjiDab

fathom matrix
#

Also, why the zoan DNA? Well, vegapunk was able to make a fruit using Kaido's lineage factor and it seems like zoans are a lot easier to DF clone than logias and paramecias, so it may be a lot of DF zoan users don't have kids or they die before they could have any, and so not a lot of traits pass on, or maybe they could/

#

BUT then there's issue of "well, why aren't there any tiger/lion/zebra/gorilla DF kids?"

#

In which case the lineage factor passing down to children thing is rare and/or BS, so it needs to be the raw, unmixed DNA from the living host to work.

zinc iris
modest skiff
#

All the theories I think of for black beard to use multiple devil fruits are contradicted by the sword that had the devil fruit. Nothing is consistent between both of those things unless Blackbeard has 2 people in his stomach

pure raven
#

Shiki can touch the water and bring luffy up

zinc iris
# fathom matrix Also, why the zoan DNA? Well, vegapunk was able to make a fruit using Kaido's li...

even with the revelation that DF powers are genetic mutation (albeit non inheritable), it is still supposed to extremely hard to engineer a desired effect. How do you edit someone's DNA to give them the power to turn into lava? And it gets worse with the more bizzarre paramecias like the hobi hobi
with zoans instead it's pretty straightforward: "just splice some of the target creature DNA lmao" and this is the reason the zoans are the mass produced ones

#

to make a wolf zoan you just need to mix dna extracted from a wolf in it

fathom matrix
# zinc iris even with the revelation that DF powers are genetic mutation (albeit non inherit...

Maybe logias and paramecia utilise chemicals that awaken or change aspects of the body that could have been something else? There was this one show about how there was a monster, that just a what if scenario of what we could looke like. Suvival of the fittest made us what we are, and that monster was what we could have been in different circumstances.

Maybe the devil fruits awaken or unlock features/chemical or aspects of a human, that could have been maybe possible but were rejected?

zinc iris
#

bonus theory: Vinsmoke Judge tried to indeed edit specific DF powers into his kids' DNA and this is why they have curly eyebrows, it refelcts the curly pattern on DFs

fathom matrix
#

Maybe Judge tried to give them paramecia powers

zinc iris
# fathom matrix Maybe logias and paramecia utilise chemicals that awaken or change aspects of th...

I thought too it could be something similar to the X-gene or Terrigenesis from Marvel Mutants or Inhumans respectively but the power you get is entirely dependant on what DF you eat, that is Luffy for example did not have dormant rubber powers, if he ate a different DF he would have different powers now

also regarding logia and paramecia genetic engineering I meant that it's theoretically achievable in the one piece world, but that it would be extremely hard and also unsuited for mass production, compared to mass haversting animal dna

#

splicing already existing genetic material in another creature is much easier than creating working genes with a desired effect from scratch

fathom matrix
zinc iris
#

like the green rabbit that glows at night that they actually created IRL was made by adding the gene of a glowing jellyfish in the rabbit dna instead of making a "green glow gene" from zero

fathom matrix
#

Haki is from your own body, so maybe it could be like a white blood cell or a defence mechanism, to fighting off DF powers, because they're an unnatual change to the body?

#

@zinc iris OH I had an idea, I know this may be crazy, but what if the original members of the world goverment, the people that fabricated the void century, and 20 royal families, were originally a pirate group?

Like, they did something to backstab or betray a bunch of people's trust to take over the world, and the WG wants to hide it, because it would be the biggest act of hypocracy out there.

zinc iris
#

I'm not sure about the specifics

#

but I have something in mind similar about the WG founders taking over after backstabbing their allies

fathom matrix
#

And it could be that Joyboy was just the first pirate

zinc iris
#

basically the idea is that the AK was evil and had to be toppled, and this revolt was led by different factions, and like the wg founders and joyboy were allies in this effort
then after toppling the AK the wg founders betrayed joyboy's faction and took the power for themselves

#

also in this scenario I was wondering about the likes of Rocks and Blackbeard basically seeing themselves as the original heirs of the AK and wanting to conquer the world to restore it

pure raven
#

What do you guys think the theory is about Sabo

zinc iris
pure raven
zinc iris
#

I in fact say it's a fals report, but it is what has been published by the newspaper

#

tldr: the WG faked his death

pure raven
zinc iris
#

no rehash of marineford

#

the outside world will think he is dead

#

but it will turn out the WG actually kept him alive to torture him for info about the revolutionaries' location

pure raven
#

Well I just hope he's alive because it would be stupid for them to bring a character like him just to kill him

pure raven
zinc iris
left birch
#

there is a theory that Lindbergh betrayed sabo

gleaming lintel
pure raven
left birch
#

i saw a vid on tik tok its cuz of who Lindbergh is based on

pure raven
#

I think he supports cp-0 too

left birch
#

i also think it would make the story cooler

gleaming lintel
# pure raven What do you guys think the theory is about Sabo

i highly doubt he’s dead but i do believe he’s in danger. i think there will be another marineford type thing but also different because oda won’t do the exact same thing over again. if something like that happens tho to where it’s a little similar to marineford, that will be when dragon and luffy go to meet bc they’ll both be there to save him

pure raven
pure raven
zinc iris
#

seems too much of a redux anyway, considering that sabo already is an ace replacement on certain levels

gleaming lintel
modest skiff
pure raven
zinc iris
#

sabo framed for killing cobra can still happen in both scenarios as an added thing

gleaming lintel
#

so much is gonna happen when wano is over

somber sphinx
#

dont forget bonney

zinc iris
#

there's also the chance Sabo deliberately faked his own death to throw off WG pursuers but hasn't informed the other revos yet that he didn't actually died

gleaming lintel
#

they left us on a bunch of cliff hangers that are finally gonna be answered

restive light
#

did joy boy had gum gum?

heady cairn
pure raven
zinc iris
restive light
#

"you couldnt be joy boy"

zinc iris
#

it's more about kaido knowing becoming the pirate king is about joyboy's quest

gleaming lintel
heady cairn
pure raven
zinc iris
modest skiff
gleaming lintel
heady cairn
pure raven
#

What you don't think so

zinc iris
pure raven
modest skiff
#

I think if Sabo gave Fujitora the right information, he would flip. Like some kinda damning truth about the evils of the WG

zinc iris
# pure raven I mean he let luffy go

he left it up to chance and heavily rationalized what to do about it in "I need time to recover first"
then when the dice told to go he went in full force to arrest him, and relented only when the dressrosa people deliberately went in the line of fire

heady cairn
#

But a problems is that when sabo was in mariejoa, fujitora and that new almirant was there too, he seems to be friend of fujitora, maybe he goes to other side too, don't know

zinc iris
#

I mean that fujitora is the extremely lawful good type that would exploit the letter of the law if morality requires so but would never commit subterfuge, betrayal or be generally underhanded
so if he were to realize the wg/navy is so corrupt that he has to side with the people that are fighting it, he would rather openly resign from the navy to join this other group than become a double agent

#

kind of like jinbe still wanted to formally leave the big mom pirates before really join luffy's crew despite the fact that the pirate world should not even have laws

pure raven
#

Could it be possible that law is part of the sword

last void
pure raven
#

Why do you think so

last void
#

I don't see How exactly he can be a Part of one

#

Like he hated the WG.Even tho Cora was an Undercover Marine

zinc iris
#

i'd say it's not impossible but still extremely unlikely

zinc iris
snow cloak
#

Akainu gets tired of paperwork and him and borsolino takes an buster call boats for wano.Then he puts holes in kaido and bm destroys the supernova alliance.took the poneglyps with him(read it using NR) and become the pirate king himself and fleet admiral at the same time.(In the middle of the quest put holes in the chest for bb and shanks)

#

How awesome would it be?

#

One piece ends in one piece

lyric dust
#

please no

split ledge
#

This is never gonna happen stupid theoryWBDisgust

lyric dust
#

akainu would never give up his fleet admiral position unless he was about to die or something, "it's all for justice" he would say CrocoStare

split ledge
#

Even at stage of death he wouldn’t…

heady cairn
snow cloak
spark spear
#

1015 predictions? everyone?

sonic plaza
#

I feel like we will also get the aftermath of Kiku and Kin, and know what happened

#

Idk if we will figure out how Luffy will be saved yet

spark spear
#

spoilers tomorrow yes?

lucid shale
#

I’m thinking the voice Momo heard could be the egg that was on the oro Jackson obviously it hatched years ago could possibly be the actual dragon fish that kaido is

fresh galleon
pure raven
#

yo im wondering, yall think ruffy has diffrent versions of tank man? i just rewatched some of cake island. and when he transforms into tank man he says something along the lines of ,, gear fourth tank man: stuffed version'' could that implied that there are more versions? maybe one which is more fitted for fighting?

fresh galleon
lucid shale
modest skiff
#

Just making sure I never missed anything, we never actually learned anything about the egg on the oro jackson right?

grim oyster
pure raven
lucid shale
#

@modest skiff no we never did I believe last person on the ship was scopper but I could be wrong

hallow wigeon
#

Does sanji have plot armor? Or is it possible that he can be killed off this arc

grim oyster
#

plot armor, he will make it trough

modest skiff
hallow wigeon
#

I am getting strong feeling that someone from straw hats will die

coarse jewel
#

yall think shanks will rescue luffy from what happened in chapter 1014?

modest skiff
#

I need more sanji and pudding cooking content ;_;

lucid shale
#

No shanks isn’t coming

#

Shanks will come when the boarders of wano open

pure raven
lucid shale
#

Sorta like he did in marineford

coarse jewel
hallow wigeon
modest skiff
pure raven
coarse jewel
#

interesting

lucid shale
#

@coarse jewel only options are heart pirates submarine and what ever creature Momo was talking to

spark spear
pure raven
hallow wigeon
#

Sanjis death will be the greatest trigger for luffy. Or it can be his legs.

lucid shale
#

But as far as helping the alliance no one is coming to help them I think with Tama switching the gifters and chopper healing every one on main floor they are still in good standing

pure raven
lucid shale
#

Luffy just got burnt out from not focusing his haki and using it all up he’s going to come back with a better understanding

coarse jewel
#

i got another question

#

do think shanks is evil?

pure raven
lucid shale
#

Shanks isn’t evil but he is Luffy final obstacle to get to Raftel

modest skiff
#

No I think the reason his activities are kinda secret is he is trying to clear the way for Luffy. I think his meeting with the elders was protecting Luffy

lucid shale
#

Kind of like a test of power

#

Unless Luffy gets captured after wano battle

pure raven
lucid shale
#

Then that’s a different story and theory

pure raven
lucid shale
pure raven
coarse jewel
lucid shale
pure raven
coarse jewel
#

i think gear 5 will be in wano

lucid shale
#

Awakening will be at wano

hallow wigeon
#

Will one piece end at 1500 chapters?

lucid shale
#

Onigashima drops on the capital all of a sudden it bounces back up

#

We supposedly have 5 years left

modest skiff
lucid shale
#

I wouldn’t be surprised after the battle the WG comes and attacks

hallow wigeon
lucid shale
#

It would be prime opportunity to show off vegapunks new weapon

coarse jewel
#

what do yall think BB's third fruit will be? or do u think he already got a third devil fruit

vagrant wraith
toxic lintel
#

i dont want a g5, just luffy training without his df, that will be indispensable against blackbeard

coarse jewel
coarse jewel
#

but its most likely against some other enemy not kaido

toxic lintel
#

maybe a awakening can be good against kaido, but not g5 pls

pure raven
# toxic lintel maybe a awakening can be good against kaido, but not g5 pls

i dont think this, against kaido it seems like he just need to properly learn the coq attacks and obv be faster, although he maybe got faster during the battle? this is something that confuses me right now. when the fight startet, luffy said that he can see what kaido is gonna do but he simply isnt fast enough to react. but suddenly luffy can still take the attacks react etc.

last void
#

"I'm here to end the Onigashima War"
-Shanks,2021

autumn vapor
grim axle
#

Theory: big mom gave kaido the fruit at god's valley. Rocks d xebec died, big mom got the fruit and gave it to kaido

last void
#

Chapter 999

pure raven
#

Ok who’s gonna save luffy now

grim axle
last void
pure raven
#

Tako?

last void
grim axle
#

Blackbeard how?

last void
autumn vapor
#

Also do you think zoro could be compared to a caterpillar in its metamorphosis? Like he's gonna get a major power boost soon?

grim axle
pure raven
autumn vapor
grim axle
#

I think it will take him some time so no

#

Rayleigh helped luffy there's no one to help zoro

pure raven
grim axle
#

Lol

cedar sinew
#

because they've been near the entrance

#

assuming you're referring to BM and Luffy

pure raven
pure raven
# grim axle Lol

its true, as i said before. SH fell in, big mom, toki and nothing happend. they just woke up on the beach, all thight lmao

fast olive
pure raven
#

if he gets swept to the shore, luffy is far away from onigaishima, which would maybe give him time to recover and maybe get more motivation if he sees the people of wano in distress. could be a cool moment

fast olive
#

How is a corpse going to beat kaido

cedar sinew
#

not the case for Luffy rn

pure raven
cedar sinew
#

We don't know where it is exactly but I think it's more likely that they're further away than the entrance

last void
#

Maybe Hiyori could somehow spot him and save him? idk

pure raven
#

But hasn’t onigashima reached the mainland?

pure raven
cedar sinew
#

I'm assuming it via common sense? You get swept to the shore because you're right next to the shore. If you drown near the beach you'll get swept to the shore. If you drown in the middle of the ocean, there's a high chance you won't make it that far

pure raven
zinc iris
#

it seems that at least df users can still be dragged by currents

cedar sinew
#

oh also, luffy was with the Sunny.

#

He had something to hold on to, making it less likely for him to drown

coarse jewel
#

does anyone have an idea or a theory on who green bull is

normal imp
#

Con D. Oriano

queen arrow
#

Admiral GreenBull is Admiral GreenBull

cedar sinew
#

not the channel for shitposting @normal imp

fast olive
#

If luffy doesn't get saved do I get a sorry

cedar sinew
#

all we know about Greenbull is that he fasts

pure raven
pure raven
cedar sinew
#

the most common theory is that he's a plant

#

and he lives using photosynthesis

#

I don't know any mythical being that fasts, no

normal imp
coarse jewel
#

i heard a theory that brook's pervious captain is green bull

grizzled fog
#

Crocodiles can go a long time without eating, that’s one of the most prominent zoan theories

cedar sinew
#

Yorki?

#

Yorki's dead.

coarse jewel
#

his statues are unknown

fast olive
queen arrow
#

Yorki is super duper dead, he's a pirate, and him being alive would ruin the story

grizzled fog
fast olive
#

Photosynthesis seems the most plausible

pure raven
cedar sinew
#

yeah. Also because "green" matches with plants

grizzled fog
#

Some crocodiles can go up to 3 years without eating

fast olive
#

Oh

coarse jewel
#

yk enel is on the moon rn so do yall think he'll come back?

queen arrow
#

no

pure raven
#

BUT i do think we will get another sky island type thing. i think its needed for Frankys dream to come true

cedar sinew
#

Moon arc doesn't need to be fit. Enel didn't want to do anything with commoners aka people that live on the ground and got his own conclusion as a character by going to the moon.
The cover stories were just a fun way for Oda to give glimpses of worldbuilding

#

What does Franky's dream have to do with Sky island

coarse jewel
cedar sinew
#

that's the most likely outcome, yeah

pure raven
cedar sinew
#

He wants to build a ship that can circumvent the seas

#

I don't think that necessarily includes sky islands. And I'm not sure how that'd even fit narratively other than during a quick epilogue

coarse jewel
#

Sky island type of arc is cool but i dont think its that necessary to go back to sky island plus the thousand sunny can probably handle the drop bc it has been proven that its a strong ship so there isnt much point of it

dusk willow
#

fr the ship handled big mom on it ffs

gritty forge
acoustic gale
#

Ok here me out... All Blue is basicly entrance to grand line and sabaody part destroyed and makin it all a single see the all blue and thats why fishman island gonna be destroyed

modest skiff
digital epoch
#

I don't know if I'm on base here or not, but I think that there's something weird going on with specifically plants and molluscs in One Piece

#

Treasure Tree Adam, Sunlight Tree Eve, Lily Carnation (I know it's from a movie, but the idea of it being the Lilith to the Adam and Eve of the other two), Devil Fruits, Pop Greens... I think that one of the greatest mysteries in the series is going to be unraveling where Devil Fruits come from and how they tie in to all of these odd plants

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And Molluscs, I think there's some kind of secret to Dials and Transponder Snails and giant molluscs like the Wano Octopus and Surume, and finding out more about Transponder Snails and Dials is something I'm interested in looking at going forward. Who first discovered? Were they fully natural or engineered? What did Dials look like when they were alive?

digital epoch
# coarse jewel so u think he has a paramcia type fruit?

I think we're gonna see the three new admirals are gonna have a Logia, Paramecia, and a Zoan. We've seen a Logia with Kizaru, a Paramecia with Fujitora, and I think Greenbull is going to have a Zoan, something Green that doesn't eat- maybe a plant creature, maybe a mythical zoan, maybe something even stranger.

#

Aliens, Perhaps?

zinc iris
queen arrow
#

there's a lot of stuff in the one piece world i think just fit better being just how the world is, like the whole grand line and the magnetism stuff, the red line and reverse mountain, devil fruits

modest skiff
wild turret
#

Green bulls fruit 🍉 is going to be Sea 🌊 king 👑 :model Fighting bull fish

pure raven
#

They’re native of the water but I don’t think they woulda thrived on land

split hornet
#

Yo new here, i just remembered that Oden said Wano was closed to protect it from a great power, i thought it could be nearing Wano now or awakening or something but idk

still pelican
#

Hmm interesting

pure raven
#

It’s widely believed that it was closed to protect it from the emerging world government

still pelican
#

At this point the one piece has to be one big sea connecting the whole world

misty lantern
#

what if Tama uses her devil fruit on kaido..... Bc hes part beast it would work

light pond
misty lantern
#

o ok

light pond
#

It only works on smile users and real animals

misty lantern
#

ight ty for letting me know

split hornet
teal bay
cedar sinew
slow apex
#

I feel like luffy going to save himself like second fight with crocodile

pure raven
#

He can’t save himself, he’s unconscious, drowning and unable to move because of his DF

shadow jewel
#

I have a really really long theory

#

I'm going to put this in here. I have a theory about what Momo read, and what Kaido means by Joyboy. Momo read that Odens documentation of this panel below. Momo is Uranus and the Sea Kings are waiting for their Two Kings to meet, Momonsuke and Shirahoshi. Clearly they meant the ancient weapons here because they immediately mentioned Shirahoshi's birth. Now, I have multiple ideas about the joyboy part. I'll start with the least probable one that Kaido owned Fishman island at one point, and had access to the poneglyphs there including Joyboys apology. He read the apology and found out about the promise Joyboy broke. The promise could be about the meeting between the Two Kings, and an event that required them together, such as moving the Noah. Another detail he could have found out is the future arrival of Joyboy in Wano to escort Uranus to Poseidon. Something didn't work out with the previous Two Kings, because the panel below shows concern about something "working out this time." Hence the apology from Joyboy, the reuniter of Two Kings. Kaido found out about this Joyboy character, and potentially the location of the Land King Uranus. He invaded Wano and was looking for any information he could find about either Joyboy, Uranus, and potentially the event when the Two Kings meet. The reason Wano needs to be opened is because Uranus, Momo, needs to leave and fulfill the prophecy of the Two Kings, hence Joyboys arrival. I believe Momo was supposed to grow up and open Wano, but Kaido interfered. The reason I believe that is because the panel below says they are willing to wait 10 or 15 years for the Two Kings to grow strong, which also aligns perfectly with the arrival of Luffy. Toki clearly had a motive here, especially since she could have landed anywhere in time but chose to land at the birth of the Two Kings, and the turn of the century where Wano will be freed and prepared for Joyboys arrival.

quaint haven
#

So I guess the only question is WHO will save luffy this time 😂

shadow jewel
#

The reason I say Kaido owned Fishman Island is because Ryugo Castle is one with a huge dragon statue on top of it, which is especially unusual for a place 15,000 feet underwater. Kaido could have given Big Mom Fishman Island to repay the debt to Big Mom for giving him the Carp Fruit. This also allows for the recruitment of Jinbe to the Big Mom pirates. If you genuinely think about it, Big Mom acquiring Fishman Island through any other means is just not logical imo. She has no incentive to control an island that is out of her reach and not even in the New World in the first place. There are so many other details in my head, but this is the main stuff. Another final thing I'd like to say about another possibility on why Kaido is in Wano. He might have read the road poneglyph at Fishman along with the Joyboy apology letter. He might have stole the road poneglyph before giving Fishman Island to Big Mom. This could explain why the road poneglyph was being transported in Act 2 to presumably Onigashima. A mention of an anonymous arrival of a person named "Toki" or even Joyboy in Wano, could have been written on one of the poneglyphs.

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I have 3 supporting pics, but I don't have pic privs

cedar sinew
#

I didn't read the full thing but gonna point out that FMI was unprotected

#

and then WB claimed it

#

during the pirate age

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BM only got her hands on it after he went down in MF

shadow jewel
pure raven
pure raven
# shadow jewel

daamn thanks for the first panel! could that mean that momo can also control sea kings??

cyan berry
#

uh

#

no

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That ability is Poseidon's only, Shirahoshi

pure raven
shadow jewel
#

I think Momo controls land kings like Zunisha

pure raven
#

english aint my first language but it sounds to me like they have multiple/2 kings. and as far as i know zounisha doesnt get looked at as a seakin/landking

cyan berry
#

it's a mystery for a reason, but we know that only Poseidon is able to control Sea Kings

shadow jewel
#

Uranus can't control sea kings because he has to play a different role when they meet

cyan berry
#

and the age is Shirahoshi's exact age

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also there's no such thing as Land Kings

shadow jewel
#

I know. I made it up for animals such as Zunisha or the Mtn Gods

pure raven
cyan berry
#

how are you going to make up a new entire species of animals to support your theory

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that's not how theories work

shadow jewel
#

Well I really only made up the term. The actual conceptual meaning is still there.

pure raven
cyan berry
#

not really, some animals are just larger than others

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The Mountain God for example is nothing compared to Zunisha

#

they're also completely different animals

shadow jewel
#

Well then I'd just make it exclusive to Zunisha

cyan berry
#

even then, you'd think we would have heard from anyone (Robin) that the giant walking elephant happens to be an ancient weapon on the league of Poseidon

pure raven
cyan berry
#

Just because one of the Ancient Weapons controls large animals doesn't mean they all have to

shadow jewel
#

No my theory is Momo is the ancient weapon similar to Shirahoshi. And Zunisha just plays the role of being controlled by Uranus

cyan berry
#

yes that is what i am saying

pure raven
#

Like the other two weapons, it was named after a Greco-Roman deity. Uranus (Ουρανός) was the personification of the sky, the father of the twelve Titans, and the grandfather of the first six Olympian gods. "Ouranos" can literally translate to "Sky" or "Heaven" in English. this is from the wiki, found it intressting

pure raven
zinc iris
#

also I'd posit that the ancient weapons don't have a common origin and just happened to be three very powerful entities that were used in the void century and then went missing but otherwise had independent origins and some likely predate the VC at all

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we have that one is a giga mermaid but another one is just an extremely powerful manmade battleship

pure raven
zinc iris
#

so the third can be anything instead of filling some pattern with the other two

pure raven
#

wait ima find it quickly

zinc iris
pure raven
#

obv theres no proof no nothing, just what i can imagine when im looking at this

zinc iris
#

you can notice the typical hats and hairstyles

pure raven
zinc iris
#

because all three peoples came from the moon together and just settled on different islands

cerulean coyote
zinc iris
#

however I now realized an incredibly funny thing from that pic

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those weird scepters the 3 birkans leaving the planet are holding

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they are actually holding baloons on a string QueenKEKW

pure raven
sleek vale
#

Just for reference Πλούτων is an Ancient Greek word as well. It was an epithet of Hades that means “wealth”

zinc iris
sleek vale
#

Before Roman times even

zinc iris
#

actually I'm not sure that' the case

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I actually heard it was Roman syncretism that merged Hades (god of underworld) and Plutus (god of wealth) together into Pluto

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however Hades' claim over earth was already a thing in greek times anyway

sleek vale
zinc iris
#

but from the merging it also got the connotation of domain over the gold and silver mined from underground

sleek vale
#

Largely popularized by the Eleusinian Mystery cult

zinc iris
#

lmao figures it was a mystery cult

sleek vale
#

But also the use of the n in the nominative makes it distinctly Greek imo

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I’d have to do a lot more in depth research to confirm all the other stuff with regard to the syncretism. That is not my area of expertise

zinc iris
#

it kinda depends on the souce

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In my language we just say "Plutone"

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in general my teory on what matters about these names is that they represent sky, sea and land

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the 3 ancient weapons are each from one people and that gives it their name
poseidon is the god of the seas, so it's the ancient weapon of the sea people that are fishmen and mermen
pluton is the god of earth, so it's the ancient weapon of land people like humans
uranus is the god of sky, so it's the ancient weapon of the sky (moon) people

sleek vale
#

Okay with some further research, Plato wrote about the use of Plouton instead of Hades in his dialogue Cratylus, so it was at least an established Greek phenomenon by the 4th century BC

cerulean coyote
#

I don't think Oda went that far. He just used the roman name...

modest skiff
zinc iris
#

unless the fishmen are aliens too

toxic mural
#

"you couldn't become JoyBoy"

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ig most of us saw that coming

modest skiff
# zinc iris unless the fishmen are aliens too

My very loose kind of theory is that at some point various planets all decided to take over the one piece planet together but the hole in my theory is fishmen. My adapted theory to that is that Poseidon was how the planet defended itself until it wasn’t enough. So perhaps the 2 other weapons are one faction and Poseidon is native to the planet. I think it’s more likely fishmen were allies of the ancient people

zinc iris
#

I was definitely not confident that Kaido would know about Joyboy and what it entails

modest skiff
#

I think we just don’t know enough for a good theory yet but it’s fun to try

modest skiff
queen arrow
#

what

toxic mural
modest skiff
#

I think Kaido just knows the gist of the prophecy and noticed Luffy getting strong at the right time

toxic mural
zinc iris
#

kaido still is somewhat shallow and expects this to be a matter of personal power

modest skiff
toxic mural
#

my guess is it has to do with it but not as much as Kaido may expect it

zinc iris
#

like luffy sill be saved by someone from drowning and will come back and win

toxic mural
zinc iris
#

this is going to happen because other people helped him

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while kaido is plotting his way to success in being personally stronger than anyone else

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but history is not a single man

toxic mural
#

well thats true, but also while gathering strong people

zinc iris
#

none of the people in the raid is stronger than kaido and maybe never will actually get to his power level even in a far future, but he's still going to lose because they are so many and can join forces

toxic mural
#

you are not completely wrong, but from what we have seen, the reason behind Luffy's recent loss, is not being able to control Co haki properly

pure raven
#

what do you guys think is gonna happen to luffy and momonsuke?

toxic mural
#

well obviously Luffy is not going to die and gonna come back, and I believe the same goes for momonsuke

dense wing
#

Luffy will be saved by Law’s crew, Zunisha, or wash up onshore

Momo is currently running with Shinobu

pure raven
#

you think is zunisha that was giving momonsuke that headache?>

toxic mural
#

Maybe it's an option

pure raven
#

may sound like cap but you guys think kaido knows about the void century and one piece and since he wants to die or whatever he realized that the only person that can help him achieve that is joyboy?

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meaning that hes been waiting for someone to take upt hat mantle and its the reason he said luffy isnt joyboy when he defeated him?

toxic mural
#

well it's impossible to know what is onepiece all about

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but others may be possible, but the joyboy theory is that its related to the D, so that maybe one of the Ds will become JoyBoy

cerulean coyote
toxic mural
#

thats what Oda been silhouetting since ages

modest skiff
toxic mural
feral pike
#

it is also possible the mountain god was talking to momo

digital epoch
dusky acorn
#

Hey, pardon the intrusion but I have a long theory post I want to share. Please standby for a few minutes

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Kid's Stolen Item From Totland THEORY

[Contents]

1 Sorting out Kid’s Journey
2 What's Notably in Totland/Eliminating Possibilities
3 What Kid took
4 Stolen Object's Importance
5. How Kid Found Out
6. Cover-Up
Rebuttal
_ _

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(1) Sorting out Kid's Journey in the New World.

  1. Kid's first target upon entering the New World was likely always the Red Hair Pirates, above every other Yonko. Before the events of Wano, Kid was never up in arms at going for all Emperors as a general rule of thumb. This is known by how he stated he never had tried to go after Big Mom before.
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_ _

  1. He ultimately found the Red Hair Pirates, fought them, and lost his left arm in the fight.
  1. After this, Kid naturally still had his sights locked on Shanks, even more than ever at this point in time.
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_ _

  1. Knowing this, he's of course still not going to be thinking of targeting different Emperors whatsoever, especially after what he had just gone through. Losing an arm must have made him bear a big grudge.
  1. However, after all that time had passed of never having gone into Totland, it was only right after losing to the Red Hairs that Kid felt the need to promptly go in and take something within Totland.
 The most important thing to note is that events "2" and "5" are extremely adjacent to each other chronologically. This is known by how Kid was not out and about enough in between the two events for the public eye to plainly be aware that he'd already lost his arm, before ever going into Totland.

 In other words, the false rumours about his lost arm must have only had the chance to spread in the first place due to there not being an adequate stretch of time in between the two Red Hair and Totland events.
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_ _

  1. Watched the Punk Hazard broadcast with Caesar's weapon in action.
#

_ _

  1. Formed an alliance with two pirates to overthrow Shanks.
  1. Kaido falls from the sky, and the plan against Shanks is set aside for now.
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_ _
But even now, the underlying target of Kid won't change. He's still going to be in it for the long game and targeting Shanks after everything in Wano is over.

 When taking into account both Kid's motives and grudge against the Red Hairs (1-4) and the exact timing of the Totland voyage which occurred right after losing to them (5), it means the one hint as to whatever was taken from Big Mom's territory must have instead been **something necessary to help against the Red Hair Pirates**, NOT Big Mom.
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_ _
(2) What's so Notable About Totland?

 Well first off, to name a few specialties of Totland that could have made Kid go there of all places, there's sweets, races, weapons, and poneglyphs...

 Sweets can easily be ruled out as a meme. They aren’t even listed in Kid/Killer’s favourite foods.

 Stealing some person of a special race while intriguing, given Kid's past desire to attend a human auction house, can also be thrown out. It's unfathomable to believe how such a person could help specifically against the Red Hairs. And a person from a unique race should have also been something that's blatantly visible to see as a new addition in Kid's forces by now. Yet, no new notable person of this nature has been highlighted to now be with Kid.

 As for weapons, this can be discredited when looking at 674, where Kid was seen watching Punk Hazard. Chronologically, this had already taken place after he stole something from Big Mom's territory.

 In such a situation as this, one of his subordinates still asked, "Captain, you're interested in weapons of mass murder *now*?"
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_ _
If what the Kid Pirates had already gotten from Big Mom's territory was some kind of lethal weaponry, then this wouldn't warrant one of his subordinates asking such a question. It'd already be well known within their crew that's the kind of thing their captain recently has his sights on, if it was the entire goal of WCI. And to top it off, Kid replied that he wasn't interested, and tossed the broadcoast aside in favour of starting up his alliance.

 In other words, Kid wasn't after any sort of unique, devastating weapon to defeat the Red Hairs through underhanded means. He's likely still planning on going at it with another brawl, when it does come down to it.
#

_ _
The Road Poneglyph, although widely speculated given Kid's motive of wanting the One Piece, is improbable to an extreme degree.

 First off, Brulee says that Kid and the others hadn't even caught a glimpse or word of Big Mom. The place Big Mom happens to predominantly reside in is the main isle, Whole Cake Island. This is also the only place the road poneglyph is kept. Therefore, if Kid and the rest hadn't caught any wind of Big Mom, then this indicates he shouldn't have feasibly made it deep enough to land on that island and take any glyphs.

 And regardless, knowing about Road Poneglyphs at all should only be something one gets taught, as Luffy was on Zou, or would have to learn upon making it into Lodestar. This is something very unlikely Kid has achieved yet, considering how long it took Roger to be the first one to reach the island in centuries.
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_ _
If Big Mom had seemingly not noticed something from her territory had gone missing, as she hadn't held a giant grudge with Kid before Wano, then whatever Kid took from Totland, it should have been something that was either insignificant, which is unlikely considering Kid risked his life in a Yonko territory for it, or it was merely unknown in that he took it at all. These are the only possible ways for.his successful mission to have been deemed inconsequential by Brulee and everyone.
_ _

#

To summarize all the options that have been ruled out thus far, before moving on:
A: Anything related towards helping against Big Mom,
B: Sweets,
C: A person of a unique race,
D: A lethal weapon for combat,
E: A road poneglyph to help find the One Piece

Then, the one hint that still remains intact as to what Kid stole:
F. "Something necessary to aid against the Red Hair Pirates."

#

_ _
(3) What Kid Took

 Encompassing everything previously analyzed with options A-E being ruled out beyond reasonable doubt, and if a handicap is to be placed on whatever Kid stole was somehow kept under the radar even despite its value, then the only thing left that makes practical sense is some kind of *information*. This is because the only remaining strong point that Totland stands out in compared to other, much safer places to have stolen from instead is its vast information network, which is widely known to be the very best in the business.

 If what Kid still had his sights on were solely the Red Hair Pirates even despite heading into the territory, then to help for that cause he must have obtained some kind of information about them. Big Mom having information on Yonko of all people such as Shanks, who she sees as her direct competitors to the One Piece fits very well. 

 Out of all possible informational aspects Kid could have wanted about their crew, an already established object of that nature within the story that Kid may have demanded to have is a vivre card. This would either be for one of the Red Hair subordinates, but most likely Shanks himself.
#

_ _
(4) Vivre Card's Importance

 The reason a vivre card would be important for Kid is so that he wouldn't have to rely on luck to find the Red Hairs again, which should presumably be how he found them the first time.

 It's also just due to the nature of the New World itself. Even if Shanks does have some sort of established base he resides in like the other Yonko, Kid would still need a card or eternal pose to easily get to him, rather than sluggishly following a log to log route.

 Vivre cards have already played a huge role in the navigation of the New World for the protagonists instead of arbitrary following log routes, so a development like this would be brought in to drive the story forward more smoothly.

 Even if they are potentially his territories, Shanks is still on the move often, and is frequently on different islands each time he’s shown. He has been seen at a jungle with Mihawk, a winter island before going to Whitebeard and when meeting Ace, a ruined old western town, a rocky looking isle reading the "5th Emperor" news, and then went to Reverie.

 Point stands, he's someone who gets around a lot, and doesn't stick to one place all the time. The stolen vivre card from Big Mom's intel gathering network may have been seen as necessary to have a surefire and fast method to reuinite with the Red Hairs again, this fits with how Kid's alliance seemed to have a calculated plan for Shanks in the first place. Which should include having a feasible way to easily get to the elusive Yonko.
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_ _
(5) How Kid Found Out

 It's not as though an in-depth story explanation will absolutely need to be given on how Kid found out the Big Mom Pirates had Shanks' vivre card if a development such as this does come into fruition, but there are still ways it can be generally explained. 

 An idea I have in mind is how Kid's ties to the underworld coming back in as what lead him to that knowledge of the card being escorted by a Sweet General given its importance, who Kid then went to plunder it away from may work as a possible scenario. It’s very doubtful Kid's underground connections were only developed to see Luffy back in action anyway, when he would have learned that from the newspaper right after regardless.
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_ _
(6) Cover-Up

 Although not necessary to have been done by either party, vivre cards are coincidentally something that can easily be replaced with another lookalike if need be, so as for nobody to notice Kid succeeded in taking it, and that it had gone missing. This fits the concealed nature of the valuable item, having been stolen seemingly under the rug.

 The reason this would have been done by the injured General would be to cover up their loss, so as to not risk a demotion. This already fits with how the General in question presumably lied to begin with, by passing Kid off as having been defeated with a statement such as "he injured me, but I drove him out and took one of his arms", which likely began the spread of the aforementioned false rumour.
#

_ _
Rebuttal

Why didn't Kid just capitalise on gaining a vivre card out of his first battle with the Red Hairs?

 Considering he was completely devastated by losing an arm and got many scars from the fight, it'd be assumed he was in critical condition, and wouldn't exactly have the luxury of thinking in regards to the far future at the time, or even having enough of an upper hand during the fight to steal one. When the realisation came that he was losing, the top priority should have rather been to ensure he left with his life at all, above all else at that very moment.
#

That's all! Feel free to discuss this or resume whatever yall were doing

tired osprey
#

Wow amazing write up shimon

#

Hope it gets mentioned in his fight against big mom

#

Makes me excited for the future and what role Kid will play with Shanks

dusky acorn
#

Thanks. Yeah, I think this if nothing else is going to get unveiled during the fight

#

Hopefully he gets a decent enough role, my main worry for his character is being overshadowed by Blackbeard

tired osprey
#

If its a vivrecard, I could see it coming into play of where Luffy and the co would head next after Wano too

dusky acorn
#

Yep probably. I hink Luffy would be fine with seeing Shanks after this, toppling over Kaido has to be what qualifies him as said "great pirate"

tired osprey
#

Kind of crazy if Big Mom got shanks vivrecard, but it fits with her whole network thing

#

She could have made her way to Wano with a vivre card of Kaido too

dusky acorn
#

She seemed to have Kaido's card too didn't she? I presume that's how she navigated to Wano without much of a hitch

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Oh right Oli, same thoughts lol

wintry lake
#

I see nobody talking about how jimbe can show up in any moment, I mean, luffy drowning, they have talked a lot about jimbe in wano arc yet he hasnt show

icy garnet
#

In terms of how Onigashima could be stopped from falling on the Flower Capital, do you guys think it’s too crazy for Law to create a room big enough to transport the island just out of the way?

cedar sinew
#

couple questions, not sure if you already answered these but

  1. How do you think Kid found Shanks in his first battle
  2. How do you think BM would have Shanks' vivre card? As far as we know vivre cards are spread amongst people they trust. I know BM has a wide information network, but info =/= physical vivre card, esp something as rare as Shanks.
  3. If BM did have one, wouldn't it be kept with her or at some treasure room in WCI?
#

@dusky acorn

pure raven
#

Also what does it matter if Kid stole a vivre card lol

dusky acorn
#
  1. How do you think Kid found Shanks in his first battle
    Basically just stumbling upon him through sheer luck,. A more intelligent scenario would be by going from territory to territory of Shanks', until he finally found him in one.
  2. How do you think BM would have Shanks' vivre card? As far as we know vivre cards are spread amongst people they trust. I know BM has a wide information network, but info =/= physical vivre card, esp something as rare as Shanks.
    By Big Mom's crew having defeated one of Shanks' subordinates who had it on him. Potentially even the Sweet General in question accomplished a task for it.
    And BM's info network did equate to a physical photo of Zeff for Judge, so the same general info gathering speciality can apply to physical objects like vivre cards as well.
  3. If BM did have one, wouldn't it be kept with her or at some treasure room in WCI?
    This is likely where it was going, but judging by how we know Kid sunk 2 ships, whatever he plundered was likely through some battle on sea. The treasure room may have been the final destination it was going to go to, but Kid may have gotten the jump on whatever General, while they were in the midst of escorting it back to the centre of Totland.
cedar sinew
#

to find Shanks for a rematch

dusky acorn
#

Because the Yonko are Big Mom's main competition, didn't she say if she had the giants she would have already defeated Red Hair, Kaido, etc. and become PK

#

Now she doesn't have a surefire way to one of the more elusive emperors

pure raven
#

Kid can’t use the card to push back shanks homies like nami did in BM territory cause shanks has no homies

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The Giaants woulda been like fire power I think, not a way to find the yonko. She had no problem finding where kaido was

dusky acorn
#

She had no problem finding where kaido was
Yes, because of a presumable vivre card

pure raven
#

We don’t know that

#

She coulda been knowing where he was

dusky acorn
#

It doesn't matter where you know someone is, lol

pure raven
#

Mihawk was able to find Shanks, and I don’t think shanks woulda given Mihawk a card considering dude was a gov dog

dusky acorn
#

The whole point of the New World is that you can't navigate normally

tired osprey
#

Big mom is heavily connected with the underworld, she is also the oldest yonkou, there is several ways she could have gotten a hold of most people’s vivrecards, id like to imagine she has a network center somewhere in tottoland where her kingdom keep tabs on what is going around the world with den den mushis, vivre cards and etc

dusky acorn
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There's 3 routes on a log pose and you're forced to go isle by isle

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And that's assuming you even know where every path takes you

cedar sinew
# dusky acorn > 1) How do you think Kid found Shanks in his first battle Basically just stumb...
  1. But why wouldn't Kid do the "more intelligent scenario" again, if it worked the first time?
  2. That makes sense yeah. A high ranking officer could've had Shanks' card
  3. If it was in the middle of the sea going to the treasure room or to BM or w/e how would Kid have known it's there? It made it seem like Kid had a certain objective going into Totland, which isn't the same as taking Shanks' card by chance from one of BM's subordinates. Idk I feel like Kid's connection to underworld that you used to support his information network is a little stretch to justify the fact that he somehow knew BM's subordinates had Shanks' vivre card
pure raven
#

I don’t think a vivre card is enough motivation for someone to raid a yonkos territory

tired osprey
#

A vivre card of a yonkou should be extremely valuable so id think it is, imagine the kind of ambush you could do with it, sky’s the limit.

cedar sinew
#

it lines up with Kid's goals and his crazy, risky personality so I somewhat buy it

pure raven
#

Sky isn’t the limit it’s a Yonko, why would Kid think he would fair better than last time he tried it

cedar sinew
#

the actual details I'm more iffy about

grizzled fog
wintry lake
#

Kid’s gonna handle that vivre card to luffy to meet shanks later after wano arc, probs right after he will meet big moms people again

cedar sinew
grizzled fog
#

He also tried making an alliance lol

pure raven
#

Because luffy is the protagonist

wintry lake
dusky acorn
#
  1. But why wouldn't Kid do the "more intelligent scenario" again, if it worked the first time?
    Well, it's just judging off what we saw from his alliance, they were biding their time and taking things in a more calculated manner by getting things ready. A vivre card would be a simple extension of this ideal.
  1. Idk I feel like Kid's connection to underworld that you used to support his information network is a little stretch to justify the fact that he somehow knew BM's subordinates had Shanks' vivre card
    It's definitely the biggest stretch, but it just feels like there's more to his his ties underworld ties than what we've seen thus far. There was really not much point in seeing Luffy as PH. He saw the newspaper of Luffy/Law back in action just a few chapters later
cedar sinew
#

after the first time he got knocked out and inevitably when he wakes up in the future

cedar sinew
pure raven
#

Kid isn’t the protagonist he dosnt need to do what luffy does

tired osprey
dusky acorn
#

He needed something from Big Mom's territory before feeling the need to kickstart his alliance, that's what we know

wintry lake
cedar sinew
#

Justifying Luffy's actions as valid simply because he's a protagonist is a shit and non valid reason.
Treat everyone as a character. Luffy and Kid both have the same end goals and they both have similar personalities. This isn't Luffy and Hawkins we're comparing. There's no reason to believe Kid wouldn't want a rematch with Shanks the same way Luffy wants a rematch with Kaido. @pure raven

tired osprey
#

Ambushing Shanks with Apoos and Hawkins crew in an enviroment that suits them definitely evens out the battlefield than randomly encountering shanks with his full strength

dusky acorn
#

It's just a fact that he does think he fairs better and wanted to go again for round 2. Same reason he wanted to go for Kaido again and thought he faired a better chance against Kaido now too

pure raven
#

Not the same, Kid can die and the series continues luffy won’t die atelast until one piece is all over

cedar sinew
cedar sinew
dusky acorn
#

Yeah definitely, road poneglyph would be one of the least interesting things considering One Piece won't be what his character ultimately accomplishes. May as well use the development to drive the story forward in a different, unique way

pure raven
#

Anyone except luffy

tired osprey
#

Could be that they tried to take shanks on by Kids way the first time around, and then Killer convinced Kid to try his way for the second time, like Shimon said, a more calculated approach.

cedar sinew
#

the fact that Kid can die doesn't mean he won't want a rematch

#

there's no connection there

#

if ANYTHING, him going up against Shanks fits narratively as the worst generation taking over the world and replacing the position one of the most crucial hierarchies- the yonkos

dusky acorn
pure raven
#

I’m not saying Kid dosnt want a rematch, what I said at first was what does it matter that what he took was a card if that was it but I don’t think that he or anyone would raid a yonkos territory for something like that

cedar sinew
#

what does it matter? To rematch with Shanks

#

which then you disagreed would happen because he's not the main character

tired osprey
pure raven
#

I don’t disagree that will happen, i what I’m saying is lol I don’t think a card is worth it to raid a yonkos territory

cedar sinew
#

even if Shanks is not the focus it's still important aspects of world building

tired osprey
#

Oda said that a certain red haired man will be making his moves soon, presumably Shanks

#

This vivrecard could tie in Luffy with whatever Shanks will do

#

Also fits the timeplan of Oda with 4-5 years left

#

Big things happening, and Kids vivrecard would give the excuse for Luffy finding Shanks relatively quickly

pure raven
#

Shanks move is prolly going to against or involving whatever pirate he went to talk with the old bald peeps about

dusky acorn
#

Yeah, and I doubt Shanks is the one that will be coming to Luffy, it's usually always Luffy that's the one going out and adventuring to these people

tired osprey
#

So far Luffy has been lucky, he had a mean to directly travel to dressrosa, zou, wci, wano, and a vivrecard to shanks would function in the same way

tired osprey
sleek vale
#

I don’t see Luffy fighting against Shanks unless it is a friendly fight. I think Shanks either is going to die at some point or he will support Luffy from the background

amber oar
#

I see Shanks testing Luffy

#

Doesn't have to be a fight to death, but Luffy will want to prove he's the strongest of all, and Shanks will want to test Luffy is worth the PK mantle

modest skiff
light pond
modest skiff
pure raven
#

if you guys remember the strawhats vs moria I think it will happen against kido the whole crew attacking

solemn ocean
#

Any spoilers for the next chapter?

pure raven
#

I just finished the new chapter and I had a question when he said you couldn’t be joy boy does that mean joy boy is a title and not a person or

mild kite
pure raven
#

Am I overthink it

pastel summit
#

joyboy is likely a title derivated from a person called joyboy.

#

but who knows. hard to say just yet.

pure raven
#

Oh so there is a joy boy person and a joy boy title oh ok thank you I just had to ask

pastel summit
#

We don't know the full story so don't take that as fact lol

solemn ocean
pure raven
#

Oh ok I need to go take care I guess

sly mulch
# shadow jewel

Could the sea kings be referring to another species besides them when they said “ “our” kings are soon to be born” ??

pure raven
crude abyss
#

Was joyboy destined to open wano, or did oden want to open wano for him?

modest skiff
meager coyote
#

what if luffy gives shanks' hat back and luffy settles for ace's instead

gray flower
#

I kind of expect luffy to give the hat away, it was his promise

pure raven
#

Well after seing similar hat in imus cold storage i m pretty sure the hat got some big importance

modest skiff
twin herald
#

idk I think a curveball might be thrown into wano with BB

leaden ore
#

and he'll challenge luffy to a davy back fight for it

pure raven
#

oof youtubers

amber oar
# leaden ore there's a theory by a youtuber (mr. morj) where he says shanks will be in elbaf ...

Morj is well known here

Makes sense to me except the davy back fight. I don't fancy it because gambling your crewmates goes against all themes of camaradery throughout the series. Even if it's a perceivedly friendly crew like Shanks would be.

Besides Luffy is friendly to them, but what about the rest. What if, say, one of Shanks's crew was the father that abandoned Franky, for example. Or what if one of them screwed up things in Baratie. What if one of them had conflicts with Robin as she was on the run. Just hypotheticals, not suggesting any of those as a theory. Point is that the rest of the crew may not fancy a davy back fight with them as much as Luffy or maybe Usopp.

People are adamant about davy back fight happening in the series because otherwise it looks isolated within the universe. But I don't think we have to see a davy back fight in the present. And a theory I've seen is that Rocks assembled his crew that way. All we know about Rocks and his crew fits with a davy back fight - the island, the crewmates not getting along, etc.

pure raven
#

don't know if it's canon or not. But laffite threatening to kill another crewmember. Is kinda reminds of Rocks. Drawing a parallel between BB and Rocks

Screenshot_20210601-0958462.png
mild kite
#

Who did he threaten? Shiryu?

dusky acorn
#

That happened in the manga alright

#

It was Pizarro he threatened to kill, who asked Bb to step down and make him captain

#

There's certainly a similarity to be had between the crews and their internal relationships

pure raven
#

That warning is a sign of true friemdship BBPieSmile

pastel summit
#

haven't really seen much speculation on how exactly kaido knows anything about joyboy. What are the common theories?

waxen light
#

I think Rocks is the most commonly speculated.

queen arrow
#

it's a simple "respect the captain" thing

last halo
#

Yeah

waxen light
#

And I wonder if Kaido calls Yamato his son because he wanted one to be the next Joyboy... ? CrocThink

pastel summit
#

but how did rocks know?

#

As of right now, there are only 2 known references to joyboy. FMI, and Laugh Tale. the FMI reference doesn't seem like what Kaido was referring to, since it was a specific promise to the fishmen, I don't think Kaido particularly cares about that.

last halo
#

From what it was said, Rocks seemed like a wild crew to be in, with strength being the only hierarchy. Maybe not even Rocks was respected in the crew, he was just the strongest so they stayed with him for the common goal they probably had.

pastel summit
#

So... was it the Laugh Tale reference? Or is there a 3rd reference that we don't know about?

last halo
#

For the Blackbeard pirates, especially for Teach's og 4, I think there's respect there.

waxen light
#

We really don't have much to go on, but seeing as how Rocks was trying to be king of the world or whatever, he was probably privy to some knowledge. Where he got it is up in the air but I don't think it's out of the question to say he was in the know.

last halo
#

As for the Joyboy thing, I'd expect the God's Valley incident to get Rocks really close to the world's truth.

#

There could be more there than "just protecting the celestial dragons"

dusky acorn
#

I think it's most likely a third poneglyph that will be added into the equation, might not see the text in Kaido's actual flashback though, and we instead get this explained through Rocks' word of mouth or something.

I heard people speculating on Rocks having taken an archaeologist from Ohara into his crew (probably by force?), which is how he deciphered them. Rocks' reign was before the buster call happened as well

pastel summit
#

Either way, I think it opened up a lot to the story. In any case, I think what we currently know is not even close to reality. either Roger was not the first person since void century to reach laugh tale, or there's a lot of missing parts to whatever is on laugh tale.

#

idk if oda will subvert roger being the first PK though. so I guess it's more likely the latter.

last halo
waxen light
#

Is there anything to suggest that he didn't go through FMI and glean this information through some means?

pastel summit
#

but why would the FMI glyph be relevant? Does Kaido care about the promise to the fishmen? The glyph on FMI does not seem relevant to what Kaido is talking about. Not on its own at least.

last halo
#

And since we probably won't see Pudding awakening it, I think it would make sense to have someone who did so in the past and is connected to BM and Kaido.

dusky acorn
# last halo I think it would make more sense to have an awakened third eyed with Rocks. The ...

Right, I was thinking this might make things iffy regarding what we do know about Ohara. It'd also beg the question of why didn't he just terrorize the entire island when he did go there.

Adding a full fledged third eye would be neat. It fits with how Kaido is also familiar with the clan and their potential to awaken the eye power, despite not having a current relation to a third eye himself that we know right now.

waxen light
#

Oh yeah, it was an apology letter right? I was just thinking about where he might've learned about Joyboy but there's the whole becoming Joyboy. My bad.

pastel summit
waxen light
#

You're wondering where he learned who Joyboy was and that Joyboy had some greater purpose and we only know of the one on Laugh Tale that has that info. I gotcha. Didn't click until just now.

pastel summit
#

Yeah.

#

The only 2 places joyboy has been mentioned are FMI and Laugh Tale. and the FMI reference is not relevant to what Kaido is talking about.

#

So either there's another reference we don't know, that Kaido has/had access to, or Kaido through some method, knows what was told on Laugh Tale.

pure raven
#

He is a yonko, he must have had his sourcds

last halo
pastel summit
#

robin asked who joyboy was

pure raven
#

one of the 4 peeps closest to One piece

waxen light
#

Well, there's a Poneglyph in the basement of Onigashima and even the Flower Capitol castle(?) Maybe one of them has that info, though that just means he would need someone to read it.

pastel summit
#

if he had someone who could read it, the whole robin/pudding stuff is irrelevant. So it's more than likely Rocks knew how to read them.

waxen light
#

Truuue

pastel summit
#

which means it's probably info kaido had access to in the past. so could be god valley related.

waxen light
#

So that basically means there's a 3rd source for it and he learned it during his time with Rocks. OTamaThink

pastel summit
#

I'd really love it if actually someone before roger made it to Laugh Tale and that it was either rocks himself, or someone connect to rocks, which is how kaido knows. but like I said earlier, doubt it'd be the case. but there being some additional source likely means "Laugh Tale" is a misdirect, because roger didn't have the full info.

#

or I guess more specifically, Oden didn't have the full info.

oak mural
#

rocks might have a ohara scholar in his crew

pastel summit
#

which ties into what Rayleigh said. They were too hasty, and robin might arrive at a different conclusion to roger pirates.

oak mural
#

the wg said rocks had to be killed cuz he knew too much info

modest skiff
#

when did they say that?

pastel summit
#

they didn't. he researched taboo subjects is all that we know.

#

which likely means poneglyphs, but there could be other stuff.

oak mural
#

there should be some more info abt rock pirates

#

he also carries the D

light pond
covert scroll
pure raven
#

Yohohohoho

#

Males characters have D in their names.
Females have V in their names..

waxen light
#

This channel is for serious discussion. Please refrain from that type of stuff.

unkempt talon
#

Does kaido know joyboy? Can anyone explain pls

pure raven
#

They're mutual friends.

edgy anchor
#

inherited will maybe

#

plus joyboy died 800 years ago so couldnt know each other

pure raven
#

But kaido know some secrets

#

all i want to see at the end of one piece luffy and blackbeard team up to defeat devil imu sama

#

who even said that Imu sama is evil

cedar sinew
#

it's implied

pure raven
#

for all we know he/she could be simping for luffy

covert scroll
pure raven
#

🤣🤣

cedar sinew
#

@covert scroll no shitposting in this channel.

teal nymph
#

is ace's mom the only known female D ?

snow cloak
#

I really don't want one piece to end as other dimenson or time travel stuff again after wano.Like one piece is a gate to the other world it'll we bad