manga-theories

[visual merlin]

all these allies, and they are still outnumbered and overwhelmed

[pure raven]

Luffys other allies need to get there to be of any help of not luffy is on his own

[placid kite]

Rn then any of those other arcs

[silent cosmos]

This is for 1014?

[pure raven]

For everything

[visual merlin]

yes, there are more allies, but that doesn't mean it's less difficult

[placid kite]

Enel literally tp one shot his whole crew trying to destroy Skypiea

[visual merlin]

this channel you mean?

[silent cosmos]

Yes

[visual merlin]

and yet luffy was able to beat him on his own, even if due to df matchup that's part of it

[pure raven]

Enel could come down and tango with kaido, he might have gotten stronger in the time skip hanging out on the moon

[placid kite]

True but luffy has overcame much more difficult situations w larger power gaps look at wci even

[queen arrow]

no

[visual merlin]

yes this channel, #manga and #also-manga all are caught up to the manga

[fast olive]

If it's one on one ...

[visual merlin]

Im explaining that they were not much more difficult though

and not larger power gaps

[placid kite]

But they were more difficult u admit

[visual merlin]

no

[pure raven]

Enel has to Come down eventually the story of the moon is connected to the main story

[placid kite]

? U just said

[visual merlin]

yes

that isn't me saying I agree with it being more difficult

[pure raven]

As the story goes on luffys challenges have to be harder and harder for him to keep getting stronger, so right now vs kaido and co. It’s the hardest he had faced I think

[verbal yew]

What if the sun pirates saves luffy.

[coarse salmon]

Calling it now, JoyBoy=Buggy

[pure raven]

I like buggy for joyboy 😎

[fast olive]

You can't save a corpse

[pure raven]

He like to Joy tho

[placid kite]

But they were more difficult cause they had a different sense of danger I don’t see how luffy beating Kaido is harder then rescuing Sanji from wci and escaping w being so much weaker then even katakuri at the start of the arc

[silent cosmos]

I have a theory but its kinda crazy, dragons in One Piece are kind confirmed cuz of Wanted! The ryouma one-shot, but we have never seen them on the serie(at least any original dragon and cannon) my theory is: Momonosuke is Urano and his power its to controll dragons, the reason of his headche at 1014 is cuz at least a group of dragons are near Onigashima

[proper kettle]

Would make sense. Maybe they got see kings with shirahoshi also and that's why momonosuke has headache

[visual merlin]

It's not just beating Kaido, and the gap is huge here too

[pure raven]

Nah kaido is his most difficult opponent yet man is know for his 1v1

[queen arrow]

Luffy beating Kaido is harder than rescuing Sanji

and the gap between him and Katakuri wasn't nearly as big

[placid kite]

Dude big mom was there and he got one shot by her

[pure raven]

Mom was prolly hearing kaido coming then cause kaido is an actual dragon

He didnt

[visual merlin]

no, he ran away from her

[placid kite]

dude they got captured as wel

[visual merlin]

also, Kaido is here and just knocked luffy into the sea

[queen arrow]

the plan wasn't beating Big Mom

[visual merlin]

as luffy did earlier this arc

as well as law and kidd

[pure raven]

After fighting a commander a army and getting himself beat up by sanji

Luffy been beaten up a few times already lol

[chrome oar]

Blackbeard raid on WCI when?

[silent cosmos]

I think maybe Tenguyama can save Luffy but rlly dk

[pure raven]

Some one else for sure is gonna jump into this war, the main fighting force ain’t doing anything. And zoro is still unable to move

Maybe cp0 or kizaru

I mean someone who will help the rebels lol kizaru will execute luffy if given the chance

But kaido's palace is on fire thanks to orochi

[placid kite]

Luffy ran of haki, is that why he fell or was he hit?

[pure raven]

He got defeated

[visual merlin]

we don't know if he ran out really

[placid kite]

Yeah I wasn’t sure

[silent cosmos]

Do u think Kaido can die burned??

[fast olive]

No

[pure raven]

He can die by drowning

[raven stratus]

which comes first: running out of haki meaning the next punch hurts you or getting punched in the face so hard you lose all haki

[pure raven]

Yeah if kaido really wants to die why hasn’t he just jumped in the ocean

[fast olive]

Pretty sure he can't

[pure raven]

He wants a Noble death

[silent cosmos]

I rlly don't think that cuz he has the fish fish no mi, I think he can breath underwater but can't move

[pure raven]

Suicide isn’t really noble

[raven stratus]

he tried to kill himself by jumping off a mountain, i dont think he really cares about a noble death

[fast olive]

He'd be like Jack he can breathe underwater

[pure raven]

Oh gotcha

[raven stratus]

he would prefer to die to a warrior, though, yeah

[silent cosmos]

Yeah

[fast olive]

Fish devil fruit

[placid kite]

D Clan = hidden 3 eyed Clan?

[cedar sinew]

no

[pure raven]

thats pudding

[cedar sinew]

D clan = will of D = luffy, law, etc

[raven stratus]

also, it would be absolutely hilarious if he just lost the ability to move in water but could still breath. imagine him just being immortal, stuck at the bottom of the sea

[silent cosmos]

I think Zoro will cut Kaido's head, is that or momo will kill him

[placid kite]

3 eyed people got voice of all things apparently

[cedar sinew]

only if they awaken

[fast olive]

Kaido can't drown

[cedar sinew]

we haven't seen it yet

and it's not voice of all things

it's being able to read poneglyphs

[pure raven]

Zoro is down for the count he ain’t cutting anyone’s head off

[placid kite]

I thought it’s voice of all things

[pure raven]

No food=death

But did kaido eat the fruit is the real question

[keen portal]

Voice of all things is not exclusive to the D clan anyway

[zinc iris]

maybe can breathe but will still be stuck on the seafloor and would eventually starve

[placid kite]

Is there a connection between luffy and momo with the three eyed clan?

[fast olive]

He's a dragon ...

[pure raven]

And no freshwater you cany surive on salt water

[silent cosmos]

Its more 4 the legend of Ryuma, if u read Ryuma's one shot u will notice, he cut a dragons head, and also Zoro is a Ryuma parallelism

[pure raven]

Yeah but maybe he is naturally a dragon, I read a theory on it i somewhere

[fast olive]

I dont think kaido has human limitations but sure maybe he can starve

[silent cosmos]

I thnk the dragon form is the awakened form

[fast olive]

Its not

[weary cliff]

Zoro already had that parallel in PH

[zinc iris]

kaido is insanely strong but still a mortal

[pure raven]

How was Wano closed? Whar if wano is an animal like zou?

By the oars race

[zinc iris]

it was an interesting idea but it has been revealed the model explicitly is Azure Dragon

[silent cosmos]

If u read the legend of the carp, is a fiah that turna into a dragon

[fast olive]

Yea behead him but who can actually cut him

[pure raven]

Ace found little oars je there maybe they close wano for the kozuki family

[queen arrow]

Zoro already cut a dragon's head off

[placid kite]

onigashima has always been there?

[silent cosmos]

Yeah, but ph is like a preview of Wano, they gave Zoro that parallel but that wasn't a real dragon

[pure raven]

Its a gaint skull with a gaint sword oars

Zoro can’t even move tho, he won’t be killing kaido

[queen arrow]

it's more of a dragon than Kaido is

[silent cosmos]

If not I think Momo will kill Kaido cuz I think he is Urano

[placid kite]

Momo weak though

[queen arrow]

Kaido's a devil fruit user, and Dragon Number Thirteen was a dragon

[pure raven]

lol momo cries and has to get carried away

[placid kite]

momo get one shot by east blue luffy

[zinc iris]

I say he can starve to death

[pure raven]

Nah momo is hearing the voice of the real monster now the oars skull is approching wano

[weary cliff]

The dragon in monsters also looked a lot more like what we saw on PH

[silent cosmos]

But he's also a Kozuki ans have a hidden power

[placid kite]

Momo is uranus

[pure raven]

He is a child tho

Hes 8

[placid kite]

Kozuki sigil is also a bird bird = sky, URANUS?

[fast olive]

Momo gets one shot by anyone .
I can one shot him hes a 8 year old brat

[placid kite]

Lol

[pure raven]

Lol why would you hit a little kid

Ask kaido

[fast olive]

Not saying I would but I could

[pure raven]

And garp

Oh yeah lol kaido is a monster

Garp is the fist of love tho

[placid kite]

Momo is dying i bet

[pure raven]

Or a arab Mexican asian parent

maybe that's what he read in odens diary. that he is uranus

[placid kite]

if he touches kaido he’s dying

[silent cosmos]

Did u read 1014? I think he cannot die

[zinc iris]

garp using armament haki on kids smh

[fast olive]

Momo:" I can't die"
dies next chapter

[placid kite]

momo is definitely Uranus

[pure raven]

quality content

[zinc iris]

no

[pure raven]

But yeah it prolly means like momo read that his bloodline can control monsters or sum

What would uranus do tho?

[placid kite]

1000000 percent ur anis

[fast olive]

Ur anus haha gotem

[pure raven]

Lol

[zinc iris]

i will reiterate that uranus is going to be a space ship

[silent cosmos]

@pure raven

[pure raven]

A spaceship would be neat

[silent cosmos]

Just like a flying Shirahoshi

[placid kite]

Uranus is momo if momo is joy boy I’ll slap this guy

[zinc iris]

my guess is that momo cannot die because his lineage from toki is relevant

and maybe what makes zunesha answer to him (as oden could not)

[placid kite]

Toki is a amatsuki

[pure raven]

Agreed, Tokis blood is ancient

[pure raven]

so can dragons save luffy? xd

[silent cosmos]

Rlly don't know

[placid kite]

I think the octopus is saving luffy

[zinc iris]

maybe law's submarine

[placid kite]

the octopus with the drums is going to save him

[silent cosmos]

Maybe he will be saved another way or Urano(Momo for me) had another ability like control Zunesha

[placid kite]

the one who goes OOOO

[pure raven]

Whoever it is i think it will be a new addition to the war

[pure raven]

the submarine cant open down in the water

[silent cosmos]

Plss if this happends I will be hyped a lot jajajajajsjs

[placid kite]

dude the octopus is a ancient weapon?

[zinc iris]

some submarines have airlocks to do so actually

[placid kite]

😮

[silent cosmos]

Definitly yes

Why the octopus doesn't have a emoji here?

[pure raven]

🐙

[zinc iris]

my idea is that it's the spaceship the technologically advanced birkans used to come to earth from the moon

[silent cosmos]

Yeah but like a server emoji

[brazen acorn]

It might have an entrance from the bottom

[pure raven]

I like that idea a lot lol

[silent cosmos]

🐙

I think Luffy can take care of him, idk how but think he will

[next nimbus]

Momonuske is joyboy

[silent cosmos]

I bet Luffy is Joy Boy

[next nimbus]

Isn't joy boy dead

[pure raven]

Sure roger joyboy, luffy is joyboy,momo is joyboy,kaido and bm are joyboy ,bb shanks garp are Joyboy we are all joyboy

[silent cosmos]

Kuina joyboy?

Or Kuina is Kaido?

[next nimbus]

You can throw in Yamato too

[pure raven]

Nah she was killed by Joy the stairs boy

[next nimbus]

The stairs that killed kuina was joyboy?

[silent cosmos]

Yes

[pure raven]

The strongest of all

[next nimbus]

Sigh

[pure raven]

Even kaido is afraid of that thing

[silent cosmos]

But the real and strongest joyboy is im, the carpenter who made that stairs

[pure raven]

That is why doest use the stair case hes afraid that they might kill him

[weak arrow]

This channel isnt for jokes. Use the other channels for that.

[next nimbus]

Don't forget the one who cut the wood

[silent cosmos]

Okok, srry

[next nimbus]

Bro were theorising who's joyboy

[silent cosmos]

Nah, but for sure is Luffy

[pure raven]

one piece is about having fun

[next nimbus]

I don't want luffy to be joyboy

[silent cosmos]

Also, do u think Kaido can really die?

[next nimbus]

Yeah of course he can we just don't know how

[placid kite]

Luffy isn’t joyboy but he inherited his will

[fast olive]

Or did he

[silent cosmos]

But u don't think joyboy is more a title than a person? I think that tho

[placid kite]

joyboy is a person

[silent cosmos]

But, withou the time death, do u think he can die?

[placid kite]

it’s probably a nickname tho title though but he definitely was a person

[silent cosmos]

Yeah but there will be, at least 2 persons

[placid kite]

Maybe joyboy was Toki lol

[weak ether]

YO

[placid kite]

honestly don’t know

[fast olive]

Toki was joygirl

[placid kite]

Oars was probably joy boy or knew joy boy

[silent cosmos]

/1014spoiler/ Cuz at Gyojin joyboy write saying srry, but, Kaido at 1014 says "so u can't be joyboy eitherm"

[cedar sinew]

you dont have to spoilertag about the new chapter here

[silent cosmos]

So there was a joyboy when ponegyph were written, but now will be another

[cedar sinew]

What kaido basically means is that Luffy won't be the PK, nor find OP, nor find out about the Void Century

[ember trench]

So we are totally going to see Luffy smash Kaido’s club later right

[pure raven]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cedar sinew]

because of the crack?

[silent cosmos]

Yup

[ember trench]

Yes

[cedar sinew]

honestly maybe

[placid kite]

Luffy likely has inherited joy boys will remember fujitora and Mihawk comment

[cedar sinew]

Luffy obv has. Look at FMI

direct parallel

[placid kite]

Oda wouldn’t have those chars say those things, I don’t think individual strength matters as much as gathering allies strength

So I think kaido saying “he’s not joyboy” because he isn’t strong enough is dumb and shows that he misunderstands what the title means

[pure raven]

Just to clarify and clean up cause I want to get things clear

[cedar sinew]

it's not necessarily like that. In Kaido's eyes Luffy is dead, meaning he couldn't finish what Joyboy had started

aka, he couldn't become "the next joyboy"

[pure raven]

Roger went to Laugh Tale and found something from Joyboy and laughed.
Whitebeard knows about a prophecy that Roger told him telling blackbeard at marineford, he's not the one that Roger was waiting for.

Are we taking it that Whitebeard also knew of Joyboy?

[placid kite]

yes

[fast olive]

When you drop someone in the ocean its usually not bc you want them alive

[placid kite]

he was grooming ace to be pirate king remember squardo

he thought ace may inherit joy boy

especially since he was Rogers son

[fast olive]

Ace did inherit it

[pure raven]

Multiple people could inherit a will

[cedar sinew]

he didn't really though

[fast olive]

But he died and now luffy inherited but now luffy died too...
I wonder who the new joyboy is

[cedar sinew]

he wanted to make WB the PK

[placid kite]

I think luffy inherited Rogers will from shanks when they first met

[pure raven]

I think you all are thinking too linearly about the idea of Will

[fast olive]

Luffy was a psycho before shanks

[placid kite]

luffy always had guts but I think his dream was finalized being around Shanks

[pure raven]

Will isn't something that is like a successor to necessarily.
Will is more of an idea and an embodiment and while you can have someone outright embody said will, it's not something that's passed on to a single individual

[cedar sinew]

I dont think inherited wills happen at a certain moment like a switch. it's just a general flow of actions, events, and thought processes that eventually align to fufill a desire that has been left unfufilled in the past by someone in the future

[pure raven]

Yamato and the rest of the scabbards inherited Oden's Will

[placid kite]

Ofc like odens will being inherited in many ways

[placid kite]

Sounds like someone from the void century

[cedar sinew]

what does

[pure raven]

Joyboy's will I'm lowkey under the belief that it's like...

[placid kite]

Joy Boy ye

Especially w his promise to fishman island

[pure raven]

how shall I say... it's something actually tangible; it's not just an ideal is how I'd word it because it seems Roger wasn't able to fully do something about it.

Where Roger and Oden's wills are ideals and actions, Joyboy's will seems to be something that is actually physical and touchable or what have you.

something that presumably Luffy is capable of getting to

[placid kite]

Something to do with Conquerors maybe

strongest conquerors enforce their will on fate

Idk hmm

[cedar sinew]

he IS from the void century

it's confirmed

[placid kite]

I bet roger mirrored joy boys death

that’s why Rayleigh+Oden laughed and criedso hard when he died

[sand sail]

Why do you feel it's any different?

[placid kite]

I bet the rio poneglyph is just a large strawhat and only people w the voice of all things can hear the story that’s in it or something lol

[cedar sinew]

there are 9 rio poneglyphs

they're stones.

[placid kite]

Oh I mean the big one

[pure raven]

Maybe it's bad translations but it just seems that from Roger's perspective it seems he believes he was too early and Rayleigh's words that they were too early to do anything about it.
This makes me believe there's a specific circumstance that makes them ineligible to do whatever it is JoyBoy's will is.

Instead of say Roger and Oden's will which is just their life story affecting other people, JoyBoy's got a mission to do is how I'll word it.

[placid kite]

they said there was one where all of the information poneglyphs were on I forgot what it’s called

[cedar sinew]

there is no such thing

[placid kite]

The Rio Poneglyph (真の歴史の本文リオ・ポーネグリフ, Rio Pōnegurifu?, literally meaning "True Text of History") is, according to Robin, the message carried by all the Poneglyphs along the Grand Line. It is rumored to contain the true history of the world (including the "Void Century" of which research is forbidden).[9] In order to find it, one must take all other passages from the other Poneglyphs with them on their travels.[6]Gol D. Roger seemed to have accomplished this task, according to Rayleigh.[13] According to Tamago, the Rio Poneglyph is in fact composed of only nine Poneglyphs.[8]

[sand sail]

The specific circumstance is that Poseidon wasn't born yet

[placid kite]

there may be a actual rio poneglyph on laugh Tale

[sand sail]

There is, Roger brought them all there

He pieced together the Void Century's history at Laugh Tale

[placid kite]

OOO maybe

[pure raven]

Would that really be the only qualification? That could be one but it makes me believe there's a personal element to it that Roger wasn't qualified for

[cedar sinew]

it's not maybe

it literally happened

[sand sail]

^

For both of those actually, lol

[placid kite]

Wait lol did it

[cedar sinew]

just reread the flashback

[pure raven]

Roger made it state that there is going to be a crew that will inherit their will and surpass them

[sand sail]

Roger was too early because Poseidon wasn't around and Joyboy hadn't been born yet

[placid kite]

Lol mb

[pure raven]

Oh son of a bitch I didn't read it like that

[cedar sinew]

you mean poseidon hadn't been born yet lol

[pure raven]

You think he means he regrets not being born into the new era that the new joyboy (Presumably Luffy) was in?

[sand sail]

Yeh, that's why he has to start the golden age, he found out that Poseidon wouldn't be born for a good while yet

Both mai, they were also waiting for Joyboy's return lol

But they knew it'd coincide with Poseidon

'cause whatever history they've got going on there

[placid kite]

I wonder where laugh tale is

Is it really just at the end of the grand line

[grizzled fog]

There’s very likely something more to it that keeps it from being discovered

[placid kite]

How do log poses work, magnetic fields?

There’s went crazy

At lodestar

[cedar sinew]

each island has a magnetic field

takes a while to reset at every island. Then it directs you to the next island

it went crazy of lodestar because there is no island afterwards following the same pattern

[placid kite]

When they went to jaya, their log pose pointed up even to sky island

so yeah that island is probably gone

[pure raven]

Has this been talked about yet? 👀 I think it’s the elephant

I don’t think so cause he would recognize the elephants 🐘 voice since he has heard and talked with it before. And he’s asking who are you, it’s someone new to him I think it’s Poseidon coming with an army of sea kings to help luffy

[placid kite]

It’s the octopus

[pure raven]

Hm 🤔 were the sea kings’ voices loud?

[heady cedar]

I threw down a theory in Reddit after the release of the the newest chapter https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/nn6c9q/the_secret_of_the_rocks_pirates/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[gilded wagon]

Yo thats a really good thought 👀

[dense wing]

So now we have Kaido leaving the roof and flying through the hole BM created earlier, now focusing his attention on Momo

With Luffy fallen into the ocean near Wano’s shores, it’s likely that Law’s crew will pick him up or he’ll simply wash ashore, found by citizens of Wano

Then main question to pose now is this,
Where will the final confrontation of Kaido vs Luffy take place?

The Marys declaring Luffy’s defeat publicly to everyone involved in the raid likely leads to Luffy’s reappearance being very public, potentially somewhere with many players such as the Live Floor

However, there is the problem of Luffy getting back up to Oniganshima in the first place. Sure Boundman can fly, but I find it unlikely Luffy will go G4 simply to return to the floating island, even though that is a possibility

Being thrown by Law’s crew is also a possibility but we aren’t familiar with how capable they actually are to do so

Thus leads to what I personally believe can happen, Zunisha’s return

I’ve always thought Zunisha would come to Wano during the raid, simply due to Momo’s comment whilst we were leaving Zou, that he would “work on stuff” with Zunisha. That and I found it more likely for Oniganshima to be lifted/saved by Zunisha than Momo suddenly having amazing control of his DF and clouds

But now I can fully see Zunisha showing up and saving Luffy not only from drowning, but also putting him back on Oniganshima. Zunisha may not listen to orders from Luffy, but does listen to orders from Momo, who is currently freaking out probably because he senses Luffy’s condition

TLDR Zunisha may show up and Momo then may order Zunisha to save Luffy and then later on save Oniganshima. ~~Thus also making Momo the one who saved Luffy as well ~~

[modest skiff]

I just assumed it was other Sea Kings and that a sea king would basically pick Luffy up and toss him back on the scene

I think its possible they can sense Momo is in danger and they are going there to fuck up Kaido

[cyan berry]

i don't think sea kings would be able to fit through the tiny waterfall opening Wano has, all the ones Shirahoshi summoned were all huge

Though it'd be a different story if they were already on Wano's waters though

[modest skiff]

I feel like they could just jump

[cyan berry]

but that raises the question of why we haven't heard them before

[modest skiff]

Since they seem to just kind of cruise around the seas waiting hundreds of years, I imagine they are closer or further at times. Perhaps a couple happened to be in the neighborhood? Kinda grasping, but they seem like they make more sense. Feels like Zunesha would take a long time to get there and wouldn't travel very fast. So its not like we wouldn't see Zunesha coming. It seems more likely a Sea King is gonna Kool Aid man into the scene

[cerulean coyote]

Can who's who be squard (the pirate that betrayed WB)?

[cyan berry]

he doesn't have the same giant sword

also why would that be the case

seems like a random guess to me

[cerulean coyote]

Do they have both long pink hair? Who's who has a sword by the way. Normal not giant.

[cyan berry]

yes exactly

im saying Who's Who doesn't have Squardo's giant sword

[pure raven]

could who's who maybe be ace, who moria revived?

[cyan berry]

now you're just saying whatever

try to be serious here please

[cerulean coyote]

I was serious. I can not understand if who's who hair is pink. The only legit color pic is on the tankobon cover (and they are pink there).

[cyan berry]

lots of characters have the same hair color

is Rebecca Who's Who now?

[cerulean coyote]

She was at the reverie.

[cyan berry]

Oda could've also just introduced an entirely new character with pink hair

[cerulean coyote]

I thought it was legit guess. Sorry.

[sly mulch]

What if joy boy death is what started piracy

[cyan berry]

i doubt it, piracy was, is, and will always be a thing

Roger just started the Great Pirate Era and boosted the amount of pirates a ridiculous amounts

but they were always there

Brook and the Rumbar Pirates are a good example of that

[sly mulch]

But joy boy lived 800 years ago

[cyan berry]

yes and their were ships 800 years ago

flags as well

[sly mulch]

How do you know that ?

[modest skiff]

I'm assuming if Kaido said Luffy isn't Joy Boy, he has some vague idea what Joy Boy is. Wonder how

[keen path]

If there weren’t boat how else they travel 😂

[modest skiff]

yeah lol i guess at least boats?

If there are islands, gotta move somehow

[keen path]

Ahlie, next this mans gonna say how do we know island existed back then 👀😂

[cerulean coyote]

Noland arrived on jaya/skypiea on boat. It was quite long time ago.

[modest skiff]

Anyone else assuming the world government has kept technology very low? Lots of signs celestial dragons had way better technology than others

I think people being able to fly would fundamentally undercut the celestial dragons

[last halo]

Just read that Usopp and BM theory on the sub...

[weary cliff]

Even better: the Noah exists

[prisma vault]

I think kaido has someone strong/important held captive somewhere near by and their presence/voice is what is driving momo more crazy than normal. Maybe kaido took xebec captive after he was defeated so he could be a captain

[silk acorn]

This is interesting

Maybe momo hears joyboy lol

Momo hearing voices could be a kozuki trait rather than him being Uranus as most people are predicting. Oden probably wrote in his log that the Kozuki need to be shogun of Wano that will open the borders of wano. Oden also could hear voices like Momo

And the kozuki wrote the ponegliffs, so I think they were just a powerful clan that had connections to joyboy

[prisma vault]

Was it stated that the poneglyphs were made in wano or made by people from wano? Maybe he is hearing a ton of hidden poneglyphs.

[silk acorn]

I thought it was made by the Kozuki clan

[prisma vault]

I wasn't sure if it was only them specifically or if there were others in wano that could do it.

[light pond]

Kozuki clan made the stone cause they are the only stonemasons who know how to do it

[modest skiff]

Oh that would be glorious

[digital epoch]

What signs are those? The machinery in Enies Lobby and their monopoly on Vegapunk? Anything else? I'm interested to see what you've noticed...

[obsidian dock]

I KNOW WHAT THE WILL OF D IS

[pure raven]

Because artur said so

[compact glade]

Good for you

[rocky yoke]

guys i can't get out that scene of luffy in water in the op

like now my brain believe it has to do with either luffy awakening or coc haki

and he will overcome this drowning by himself

not the help of others such as law crew or just end up in the shore

[pure raven]

It would be terrible imo

[rocky yoke]

yeah but there are a lot of effects in that scene that are related to water

[pure raven]

I don’t think so, the rule is absolute regarding fruit users and water

Just because it happened in an opening doesn’t mean it’ll happen

[rocky yoke]

yes ik

and it would be absolutely stupid if luffys df can over come this rule

but what if there is more into that scene than we think

but also we need to keep in mind in kaido intro speech it was stated in land air or sea kaido is the strongest

[light pond]

He is unconscious underwater there is no way he could swim it would be stupid if he just fly out of water and from the looks of it momo hearing things indicates that someone will come help luffy

[rocky yoke]

hehe did you watch joyboy theories video too

[wicked grove]

I think its Zunesha

Only thing I can think of Momo can talk to and could change the water level

[pure raven]

Lol change the oceans water level, that would be crazy

[rocky yoke]

i mean this or these topics are very interesting and we can make a lot more realistic theories about them but sadly they won't last for too long bec the answer for who is momo talking to and who will save luffy will be found really soon like 2-3 chapters max

[wicked grove]

a literal walking island. If changing the water levels could happen Zunesha is the one who can pull it off

[rocky yoke]

hopefully

[pure raven]

but zunesha needs to be ordered

[rocky yoke]

flashback rn would make me hate oda more than ever

[pure raven]

only momo can do it

i think there is something new to this we havent seen before

[wicked grove]

You have any speculations?

[pure raven]

honestly no idea

[rocky yoke]

i think coc haki might be something here

[pure raven]

maybe it has to do with uranus

which can be momo

[rocky yoke]

tbh joyboy made me change my mind about this chapter and opened my mind to a lot of theories and also he gave really decent ones that are so possible like i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of what he speculated would be true

i at first rated it as 5-7/10

but after watching his review i changed my mind to 9-10/10

[pure raven]

which review?

[swift zenith]

obviously the octopus from the start of the arc will save Luffy

[rocky yoke]

https://youtu.be/qzVCey5_Nd0

[rocky yoke]

Everything is possible

[modest skiff]

Luffy could turn the water into rubber? Feels like a stretch but if Doffy can turn buildings into string…

[cyan berry]

buildings are very different from rubber

and besides

water is the common weakness of every devil fruit in the world

why would luffy somehow be able to magically turn into Rubber

(awakening is not a good answer)

[modest skiff]

Aokiji can freeze water

It’s not that devil fruit powers can’t interact with water, fire too

[zinc iris]

Aokiji is using the cold of his power to freeze water, it's not a a DF power directly affecting the water

[cyan berry]

yes because he's an ice logia and water freezes when you make it cold

he's just using normal Zoan rules

err

logia*

[zinc iris]

It's subtle but it's the same reason an acid arrow bypasses magic resistance/immunity in D&D

[weary cliff]

Using the chill chill fruit to chill water isn't his fruit affecting water? I don't buy it

[modest skiff]

I still think it’s 998x more likely some sort of large creature in the water saves him. Just trying to think of other possible things and some sort of turning water into rubber would also work though much less likely as we’ve discussed

[cyan berry]

how would turning water into rubber even work

there's still no air in the water

[zinc iris]

It's not a transmutation power applied to water but a result of touching the water while being cold

[cyan berry]

all he'd have done is create a rubber ball inside the water

[sand sail]

It'd be impossible for him to do that while in the water tho

He may not lose his powers, but he sure can't use them lol

[modest skiff]

How does turning buildings into string work? I think it’s really stupid but the precedent set by Doffy makes it hard to place limits

[pure raven]

luffy's awakening will allow him to swin, rubber is waterproof, that's why shanks carried that fruit and the main character will have an incredibly broken devil fruit

[zinc iris]

Oh no

[cyan berry]

affecting buildings is a lot more plausible than affecting water

[sand sail]

@pure raven Serious theories only here

[zinc iris]

Big Mom is not gonna make a water homie

[pure raven]

its serious

[sand sail]

And your support for it?

[modest skiff]

I really do think it is difficult to say a theory involving Luffy's awakening is unreasonable. We just have so little reference and we've seen such wild stuff

[pure raven]

Luffy vs kaido is also a parallelism with king kong vs godzilla (kaido looks like godzilla in the transformation) and king kong beats godzilla and afterwards swims towards his island. Also, in the opening luffy appears well underwater and then walks over it

[modest skiff]

In some ways, you could argue "Luffy awakening" applies to almost anything, which you could almost argue makes it something that isn't worth discussing. If I could justify just about anything ( within somewhat reason) why justify anything at all using awakening? The only thing is, in terms of what we have already seen, which is already bonkers, bonkers theories start to also feel "reasonable" due to string buildings

[sand sail]

The problem is he's already in the water

He's currently drowning as we speak

[pure raven]

I mean the akuma no mi awakening

[modest skiff]

Alright so I'll be honest I missed the part where he's in the water lol

[cyan berry]

And as a devil fruit user, he can't move or use his fruit on his own

[pure raven]

unless he carries the only devil fruit that allows him to do so

[sand sail]

Kaido looks literally nothing like Godzilla at all

Except for both being vaguely reptilian

[pure raven]

his fruit is also about some fish

[sand sail]

Yeah, no one caught him, he's currently just sinking beneath the waves

[cyan berry]

My favorite part of the new Godzilla movie was him grabbing his giant club and slamming it into the monkeys face while yelling "Ragnaraku"

[modest skiff]

I'm not seeing the Kaido Godzilla connection and tbh I think it is beneath what Oda would make. Starting to wonder what panels I missed by not noticing Luffy under water...

[pure raven]

kaido used an attack named like that iirc

[cyan berry]

Yes that is the joke

[pure raven]

oh sorry i didnt read the first part

[modest skiff]

Also are dragons not considered reptilian? Perhaps a discussion for another day...

[pure raven]

Uo Uo no Mi, Model: Seiryu

Fish-Fish Fruit

he's the legendary carp that became a dragon after going up a waterfall

Kinemon is a dead man 💀

[modest skiff]

Right but he does turn into a dragon, so what is he as a dragon

[cyan berry]

What

[modest skiff]

Reptilian or fish

[dusky acorn]

This shot, while the announcement is being made

Pans to Luffy so there's no room for doubt on his whereabouts

[pure raven]

It'll be so Oda that Luffy just ends up washing up on the shore instead of all the theories the community made

[dusky acorn]

I don't think he can wash up to the shore with the way he's continually plummeting

[modest skiff]

I would think Kaido's dragon form could swim if he was considered a fish

[pure raven]

Big Mom was in similar position though

BM went into a whirlpool

[cyan berry]

I doubt a fish fruit would let the user swim

It's the same logic as a Fishman with a devil fruit

Just reversed

[pure raven]

plus i've been wondering about those words about joy boy from kaido... im starting to believe that your haki along with the one piece allows you to become a kind of a god such as im (im would be the original joy boy, whose will got corrupted), i think it would be a hell of a plot twist

[modest skiff]

Thank you, I thought this was like the puff of steam after 4th gear lol

[pure raven]

Luffy is dead in the water, something or someone has to save him

[dusky acorn]

Yeah that might be specific to the waters by the waterfall. Wouldn't want the same thing to be pulled to save a DF user twice

[pure raven]

everyone expects the one piece to be the result of breaking the red line, but i think it would be nice if it were something tangible

[dusky acorn]

And I can't stress enough how huge in proportions Luffy's loss has been blown to be

[modest skiff]

Is it assumed Kaido was always a dragon, or a fish first?

[dusky acorn]

It has to be some comparably huge development that saves him at this point

[pure raven]

i think he was a fish first, and that the dragon form is the awakening

Kaido was never a fish I don’t think lol

[modest skiff]

Since momo started as a dragon

[pure raven]

Yamato dosnt seem fishy and she carries his dna 🧬

no but the fish part would be thanks to his akuma no mi

[cyan berry]

The fruit is the Dragon Model

[pure raven]

Momo started as a human

[pure raven]

Why would a mythical fruit make you a normal animal

[cyan berry]

No such thing as a fruit gaining a model for Awakening

[pure raven]

Was marco a bird that awakened? Was sengoku a human that awakened?

[pure raven]

well its the legendary carp

its japanese mythology...

[cyan berry]

No its not

His fruit is the Senryuu model

[pure raven]

So does the azure dragon have anything to do with fish

[cyan berry]

He wasn't a fish when he first ate it

[pure raven]

yes

[cyan berry]

He was always a dragon

[pure raven]

you cant be sure of that, youre just speculating

[modest skiff]

right

[pure raven]

It would be weak if he started out as a fish

[modest skiff]

I think he means based on what we have seen, that appears most probable

[cyan berry]

It really doesn't

We've barely seen anything about Kaidos past anyway

The only one speculating here is you two

[pure raven]

Did kaku start as an ox before he awakened?

[cyan berry]

There is no such thing as a Zoan getting a model after Awakening

[pure raven]

Kiku is dead

as far as we know*

[cyan berry]

[modest skiff]

I mean if we haven't seen Kaido transform the day he got his fruit, we don't know, but if I were to guess, I would assume he's always been a dragon. Especially since Momo was a dragon right away

[pure raven]

I wish oda would give tje model in the chapter instead of having kaido awakened fish fruit theories

But people would probably ignore the model because magicarp or something

[cyan berry]

No clue why he thought revealing it in an SBS was the best move

[pure raven]

If oda says it, that’s what it is

i came here to discuss with you all in a friendly way and what i get is just rude people using rude emojis, reddit sucks

For people that think kaido is an awakened fish
Was marco a bird at first or was sengoku a human?

[modest skiff]

Don't be discouraged Arlene, some people just have differnet approaches to evidence etc

[cyan berry]

Arlene

This is a discussion server mostly unrelated to Reddit

[pure raven]

i am a mathematician, for me evidence is proof, if theres no proof then there is no evidence

[cyan berry]

You have nothing to back up your argument

[modest skiff]

I think when we are all speculating, it isn't a bad thing when people want different evidence for various theories

[pure raven]

no, thats why it is a theory

Kaido could have been born a dragon and ate a fruit that let him turn humanish, we have minks which are walking talking animals

[cyan berry]

While I have every example of a Zoan model in the series to back up mind

[pure raven]

well that is not a proof

[cyan berry]

You can't go on about "evidence" when you have none of your own

It is infinitely more than what you have

[pure raven]

of course i can, that is a fallacy, and a huge one

[modest skiff]

We have no other examples of healing zoans, but marco can zoan. I think lots of weird stuff can happen that we haven't seen yet. That's the whole point of new stuff happening lol

[pure raven]

exactly

[cyan berry]

Fundamentally different

Marcos a mythical Zoan

We know these things have special properties over normal Zoans

Just like how Kaido is able to shoot wind slashes and lightning attacks

And also why his skin is so tough

[pure raven]

so what proof do you have to refute the theory? none
what proof do i have that the theory is correct? none
thats why i came to discuss. and it was a minor part of what i was trying to discuss

[modest skiff]

Doesn't that mean there could be other unique qualities to Kaido's fruit? Like the evolution thing?

[cyan berry]

But there has never been any reason to assume that a Zoan, mythical or otherwise, gains a model upon reaching Awakening

[pure raven]

your opinion's value or circumstancial evidence value is just zero

opinions dont have value

[cyan berry]

None of what I said is my opinion

[pure raven]

Youss has just been stating facts

[cyan berry]

All of it is stuff we do know from over 22 years worth of story telling

[pure raven]

.

Oda has never made a fruit gain a model after awaking tho

[modest skiff]

I really think you two don't disagree as much as you think you do

[pure raven]

sorry but this is not a fact

[pure raven]

Big mom also has crazy tough skin
Its prop not cause of kaidos fruit, but just haki

[cyan berry]

His fruit is a dragon model

Big Mom has been referred to as a freak of nature multiple times

[sand sail]

Big Mom's durability is from her genetics, Kaido's actually was confirmed to be from his fruit

[pure raven]

can you prove he was a dragon at first? no? then that's not a fact

[sand sail]

I like that they had that difference too

[modest skiff]

if his fruit is called a dragon model, I'd say that's more evidence he was always a dragon

[pure raven]

Where

[cyan berry]

Luffy learned Ryou for the sole of purpose of wounding Kaido through his scales

[sand sail]

^

[pure raven]

Kaidos is from his fruit and not natural like oden??

[polar bison]

you think big mom had haki when she tanked a giant's sword with her arm as a five year old?

[cedar sinew]

Kaku was a giraffe first @pure raven

[pure raven]

Based on literally any other zoan yes

[cedar sinew]

Lucci was a leopard first

[pure raven]

i think its more plausible that he was a dragon at first, but we can't be sure

[grizzled fog]

Kaku is a giraffe, but his fruit is the Ox Ox fruit. The MODEL is what matter

[cedar sinew]

So kaido is a dragon first

[sand sail]

The problem is, there's legitimately no reason to think otherwise @pure raven

[cyan berry]

Oh my God

If you agree with me then what's even the point of all this

[pure raven]

do you know what a counterexample is? every non trivial zero of the riemann zeta function has real part 1/2, so then the riemann hypothesis must be true lmfao

[sand sail]

It's really not more plausible at all, because of the complete lack of precedent here

[pure raven]

Was king a dragon that awakened into flying dinosaurs

[sand sail]

It's a possibility, sure

[pure raven]

i agree

[sand sail]

Oh, I misread, thought you said it was more plausible that he was a fish first

[pure raven]

the point is i get annoyed if someone starts acting rude and disrespecting other opinions with no evidence

and i think that should not be allowed

[sand sail]

No one disrespected your opinion, they just disagreed with it. They are just as allowed to disagree with no evidence as you are to state your opinion without it

[cyan berry]

If you say something I disagree with then it's natural that I'll tell you why

This is a discussion, not a playground

[pure raven]

no, they didnt just disagree, they started using emojis of tired and even making fun

[sand sail]

If you did feel disrespected, let one of us know, better than to go on the offensive in chat.

[pure raven]

of course, but you cant state facts that arent confirmed if you're rigorous

[cyan berry]

I give up

[pure raven]

okay, sorry

[cold current]

Kaido is a giant or other race first but not human, it is already stated as his title is the "strongest" creature. he then eat fish fish fruit, whether he first become fish and the "evolved" into dragon or a dragon from the start. I dont know how can this become a butthurt topic for someone.

[pure raven]

its about showing respect when writing

Because kaido was originally a dragon, kinda like the minks

[cyan berry]

What

[modest skiff]

Do people think Kaido's dragon is extra large because he himself is large?

[pure raven]

Why would a dragon have an azure dragon devil fruit

[cyan berry]

Kaido was a human who are a fruit to turn himself into a dragon

[pure raven]

Nothing stated that?

Idk I’m just spit ballin

[pure raven]

He def no normal human tho

i dont think he was a human, i think he was a mix of a human and something like oars

[cyan berry]

Neither is Luffy

[pure raven]

But it never says that kaido was a human when he ate the fruit

[cyan berry]

But he's still human

[velvet edge]

What do you think Moriah is?

[cold current]

might be, I want to say it is the same with momonosuke being small. Then again I realized momonosuke's fruit is a failure

[cyan berry]

!horns

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/703457603887300608/unknown.png

[cyan berry]

Horns and the like are irrelevant

[pure raven]

Like most the beast pirates have horns

[modest skiff]

LMAO so Oda is saying some people are just born with horns??

[cyan berry]

Yes

[sand sail]

It's more likely Kaido is just a human, given what we've seen and the lack of anything outside of it

[pure raven]

Kaido was a dragon first, and his father was killed by ryuma. But as a dragon he had the power to turn humanish and big mom gave him the fish fruit

[cyan berry]

We see kid Moriah have tiny horns

And he's human

[sand sail]

He could be something else, but ehh...at this point, we'd have gotten some kind of hint at it

He hasn't even been called inhuman since Punk Hazard

[cyan berry]

@pure raven you ever gonna be serious here or no

[sand sail]

I don't mention WCI 'cause apparently that may have been a translation issue

[pure raven]

kaido is almost 8m tall

[cyan berry]

We already told you that Kaido was human first then age the fruit

Keep this channel serious please

[grizzled fog]

Kaido seems pretty human. he’s big and has horns, but that’s literally it. BM is bigger and plenty of characters have horns

[pure raven]

He could have been a dragon, the minks are talking animals. What couldn’t there have been a talking dragon

[dark palm]

so he's a dragon that ate a dragon fruit?

[pure raven]

How about we talk about a serious topic, like zoros eye

No he ate a fish fruit bm gave him

[cyan berry]

The common link between all the Mnks is that they're all furry animals

[dark palm]

oda gave the model of said fruit

[cyan berry]

Dragons aren't furry

Especially not Kaido

[modest skiff]

I personally think Zoro's eye still works

[pure raven]

Oh lol my bad

[dark palm]

"uo uo no mi, model: seiryu"

[cold current]

but his title is the "strongest creature", if he is a human then Whitebeard should not be the strongest?

[dark palm]

he just called it a fish due to A. the mythos and B. not wanting to be redundant with dinosaurs

[sand sail]

These titles aren't objective

They're reputations

[dark palm]

since the words for those are the same

[pure raven]

And bb called him a thing I think

[sand sail]

No one could take down Kaido, and few people could even hurt him at all, so it makes sense that he'd be called the strongest thing on the planet

That on top of having the strength to back it up and not just being a tank

[cold current]

so "the strongest human" is actually not the strongest? lel

[sand sail]

Whitebeard gained his title...33 years ago?

[pure raven]

i think kaido's fruit is the best one among the yonko for that power level

imagine whitebeard with such a zoan at marineford, he would tank x 1010000

[dark palm]

he wouldn't be able to pump out as much damage though, but yeah

[sand sail]

^ That's a big tradeoff

[dark palm]

it makes kaido much more durable on top of his already impenetrable skin

[sand sail]

The Gura Gura is much stronger

[velvet edge]

Kaido is just a bit taller than BM. Could he be a half giant? Mayhaps. But def not a giant

[pure raven]

exactly, loses large scale but gains in 1 v 1

[dark palm]

big mom's fruit has a lot of potential but it's mostly carried by the fact that she's an absolute freak of nature

[sand sail]

Even 1v1 isn't that bad, not many people can take a quake and just keep going anyway

[dark palm]

since strong people are scared of her

[sand sail]

Yeh, hers would be a perfect utility fruit for anyone else, but easily becomes an Emperor's best weapon for her

[pure raven]

yes i mean whitebeard fruit is excellent, but i feel like for 1 v 1 kaido's fruit is almost perfect, and that also makes sense "if its 1 v 1 , bet on kaido"

[dark palm]

definitely agree

he's just so durable lol

that's why he fights in dragon I figure

[sand sail]

Whitebeard doesn't lose anything in a 1v1 tho, even if it comes to Kaido the fruit wouldn't help him in that case lol

I guess a big question would be just how invulnerable those scales are

Like, if they can legitimately just let him swim in magma or take meteors without a scratch

[pure raven]

I mean at this point one piece is just about haki tho

[dark palm]

all those cannon blasts and minor stabs whitebeard took that eventually had an effect on him

[pure raven]

i think that after what we've seen about king's haki, the most powerful attacks are with coated kings haki, and whoever is most durable has an edge imo

[dark palm]

would have just been negated

[cold current]

it was demonstarted that Killer sonic attack is effective. WB gura gura should have the same effect, no? Is quake = sonic?

[sand sail]

One Piece is far from just about haki

[pure raven]

yes, but i think you can hurt anyone with that haki

[sand sail]

Technically yes, but actually no

But that's the same logic yeh

[pure raven]

and the defence would be excellent with kaido's or marco's fruit

[sand sail]

Whitebeard attacks with vibrations, there shouldn't be a fruit in the world that gives a natural defense against it

Minus the Gomu Gomu or logias

[pure raven]

ofc, he would lose attack power, gura gura no mi is just extremely destructive

[pure raven]

It kinda is tho

[sand sail]

But this is also a discussion about whether a shield is better than a spear too

Kaido's fruit has a significant level of utility over the Gura Gura, for absolutely sure

[pure raven]

well kinda, i mean whitebeard in 1 v 1 doesnt really gain that that much with his fruit IMO

kaido's fruit seems like the absolute tank fruit for 1 v 1

i can hardly see him losing to literally anyone

[cold current]

AoE attack vs Single target dilemma

[sand sail]

Yeh, that's kind of his reputation too rofl

[wild turret]

Kaido has a way better fruit he can transform , use lightning air fire breath atacks

[sand sail]

Nah, they both have massive AOE attacks

[dark palm]

I'd say it's haki in tandem with other things. Someone with better armament haki than luffy might lose to him due to him generating more power with his fruit.

[sand sail]

Really, none of the Emperors are just single target individuals, there's no distinction to be made between whether their blows sweep or focus

Except I guess Shanks?

[pure raven]

and i dont see how kaido will lose, i mean he's been damaged by luffy, zoro... and he still doesnt loook that much in pain to me

[dark palm]

hopefully they'll open oden's scar

that seems like the best way to do it

[sand sail]

Or just use Zoro's tbh

[dark palm]

the whole thing

[pure raven]

that's a good point

[sand sail]

I thought that's what zoro would've ended up doing with Ashura or however he managed to scar Kaido, 'cause we all knew it was coming

Just open the Oden wound, not make a new one

[sand sail]

But I guess it's more impressive

[cold current]

indeed, kinda makes me think how this arc will end. Even if they can beat Kaidou, Big mom still"fresh",

[wild turret]

I think shanks will swim in ocean and save Luffy once again

[pure raven]

im wondering if luffy can get out on his own, with haki and the help of marine kings for example

[dark palm]

law's crew is still down there

but some folks hate the idea of designating an important duty to who they perceive as unimportant characters

[pure raven]

at this point i think we can say the raid failed

[sand sail]

Wouldn't it be a trip if the sea kings were showing up because they sensed Joyboy's return and saved Luffy 'cause they remembered him from FMI?

[pure raven]

so i think some external help is required

[sand sail]

Raid hasn't failed yet lol

[wild turret]

We will see next chapter the raid hasn’t failed yet

[pure raven]

also, momo heared some strong voice, that could be zunisha

[dark palm]

wouldn't say it's failed until they all have to evacuate and start over

[sand sail]

Give it a couple of chapters, let's see if they manage to actually drop down and spread over Wano

^

[dark palm]

until then it's a sort of continuous battle

[pure raven]

hmm, big mom and kaido seem kinda fresh, and zoro, luffy are almost dead, i see that as a L

[sand sail]

Kaido is miles from fresh

Dude looked like he was barely getting up a few chapters ago, he's been getting dunked on very hard this arc

[pure raven]

i think hes always overacting

[wild turret]

Kaidos definetly hurt

[sand sail]

He isn't, he was getting heavily fatigued and horribly injured

But he's an Emperor, so it's not stopping him

[dark palm]

honestly, I feel big mom is gonna have to fight kaido at this rate

[pure raven]

yes i mean he is definitely hurt and any other character would have been destroyed most likely, but i dont think the damage he has received until now is that significant

[dark palm]

or she'll at least confront him

[wild turret]

There’s two emperors there so another one is going to show up Mark my words shanks pirates coming

[dark palm]

I don't think shanks is gonna meet luffy before he's ready

[pure raven]

shanks was at the reverie which is really far from wano i think

[sand sail]

But the reason the fight was getting good was because it finally was significant

[pure raven]

so i dont know how will he arrive on time

[sand sail]

Reverie ended over 3 weeks ago

[dark palm]

that was a while ago but yeah, it's a very far distance to travel

he'd basically have to go straight there

[pure raven]

i agree, but i think his devil fruit allows him to regenerate that fast

[sand sail]

At this point, he'd be able to make it the same way the marines could, but yeh they'd have had to get a jump on it

I believe it was...two weeks ago that the warlords were disbanded and hunted?

Kaido's fruit might allow him that kind of regeneration, but doesn't particularly seem to so far

Or at least, there hasn't been mention of it

[pure raven]

the good old theory of shanks and kurohige appearing seems more possible now to me

[wild turret]

Let’s just see what and how it plays out because right now all We have seen his losses

[dark palm]

I just think that'd be too chaotic

[pure raven]

he just tanked every single attack, he is a fucking beast

[dark palm]

it'd be some sort of zoan awakening advanced recuperation

if we are gonna get an extrapolation on that, now's the time

[sand sail]

Sure, but that's just him being a beast, that doesn't necessarily imply any form of regeneration

^

He'd have to have it from being awakened if anything

[pure raven]

but he was getting excited with luffy, so i dont know what to think really, im getting so hyped up omg

[sand sail]

Unlike his top dogs, his fruit isn't one that is supposed to just give extra restorative properties

[dark palm]

he really believed luffy was the one to kill him

[sand sail]

So I wouldn't imagine he has anything over what may be standard zoan ability in that case

[pure raven]

agree

[dark palm]

a really cool thought is that he could have come to wano initially partly to wait for "joyboy"

thinking "joyboy" could finally kill him

which would explain his quote this chapter

[pure raven]

and what about him implying that there was another character who could neither become joy boy?

[sand sail]

I thought maybe that would end up being the thing, especially if he thought Joyboy would be Roger

And Roger died, lefting him wanting

Just like Whitebeard did

[dark palm]

yeah that's what I figured, he thought it was roger

then roger ended up dying

[pure raven]

oh so he might be referring to whitebeard

[wild turret]

No one really knows who or what is joyboy But you got to think of the hype for this chapter Momo know something that no one else knows except Yamato

[sand sail]

I tossed this around earlier, maybe Higurashi actually had some insider info about it and that's why she picked Kaido specifically?

[pure raven]

i think momo knows he's an ancient weapon now

[dark palm]

higurashi and semimaru being former rocks pirates is a natural direction

[sand sail]

She knew Joyboy would have to go around to wano and wanted to have the country dominated for Kaido to rule instead

Semimaru?

[dark palm]

barrier man

the biwa player

[sand sail]

Ahh, was he an outsider too?

[dark palm]

yeah, I mean

he seemed like her attendant

[sand sail]

I honestly don't even remember him outside of Orochi's castle lmao, I'll have to go back for that one

[dark palm]

I don't think it was directly stated

it would just make sense to me given his powers

[wild turret]

All I know is that Shanks was in all of the Flashbacks and that he had feelings for Oden

[pure raven]

also now im concerned about how did shanks really stop kaido before marineford

[dark palm]

the easy answer is that they're at least similar in strength, and kaido didn't feel it was worth his time

but who knows really

[pure raven]

but kaido wants to die, right?

[dark palm]

it's more he wants to die in a similar manner to roger or whitebeard

[pure raven]

true

oh that might be a reason for him to go to marineford

[dark palm]

yep, wanting to participate in this great war

[pure raven]

what do you think the outcome would have been?

[dark palm]

I think his forces would have run over an already weakened marines

[pure raven]

i just imagine him stomping

[sand sail]

He wants to be "perfected" in death, it seemed implied

From what he said to Kinemon back in 998 or 999 or so

[pure raven]

i think he wants to gain his son's respect

like he could be kinda envious of oden's death

[dark palm]

insecure doting father kaido

but yeah, this spread

[wild turret]

Imagine your son/daughter wanting to be the person you killed

[polar bison]

this chapter makes it clear to us I think what kind of death kaidou considers worthy of himself

he wants to die to either Wano and its forces or JoyBoy, the two parties we know to be integral to bringing the dawn

[dark palm]

yep

and the thought is that he positioned himself there due to a belief it WOULD happen

through knowledge from xebec or whoever else

[pure raven]

im so happy oda is such a good mangaka

[polar bison]

this might be why he bothered to control wano in the first place. by positioning himself as its ruler, he ensured that the only way someone could open wano’s borders - a probable pre requisite for bringing the dawn - is through killing himtough I got beaten to it

[pure raven]

he always makes a decision that satisfies me

[warped niche]

In Laugh Tale there's a black Poneglyph (the Rio Poneglyph) that contains the true story

[limpid zenith]

i just realized something

did kaido purposley take over wano to bring out joyboy because he knew the borders were shpposed to be open before joyboy comes?

[polar bison]

yea probably

[limpid zenith]

or because joyboy is believed to be strong asf and thats the only way he could kill himsepf

[sand sail]

Thinking about it, I don't think that can be the case anymore. Not unless Kaido somehow found out everything before Oden did

[polar bison]

not everything, but some things via rocks

[limpid zenith]

yea rocks

it doesent necessarily have to be before oden

[sand sail]

Well it does, he started dealing with Wano before Oden got to Laugh Tale and learned about Joyboy himself

[limpid zenith]

oh true

[sand sail]

Oden leaves to sail with Roger as Kaido starts in on the country

[limpid zenith]

wait a second the entire strawhats are hella related to the one piece kinda

usopp wanted to be brave like the gians and joyboy had a large hat implying he was a giant which is interesting

sanji the all blue which could be the one piece in itself

[fathom matrix]

There was this very common theory that once the red line's gone

[sand sail]

We don't know who the hat belonged to rofl, but it would've been bigger if it were giants I imagine

[fathom matrix]

all the oceans become the all blue

Also, You know what IS interesting? The fact Kaido also knows about the Joyboy thing, where's he's aware that it may not be the actual person, but someone carrying on his will. In fact, maybe he also read Odin's diary, thought it was garbage, and threw it back to Yamato? Like "JOY BOY? WHAT IS THIS CRAP?" but maybe after fighting Luffy, he maybe thought "maybe that joyboy crap....wasn't crap after all"

[limpid zenith]

chopper to cure anything like maybe even rid of devil fruits to balance power of the world, nami a map of the entire world which idk how to explain it just makes sense, zoros idk

wait ur so right what if kaido read the journal

[fathom matrix]

I'm sure Yamator maybe had it lying around at somewhere, Kaido found it, read it, threw it back and thought nothing of it

[limpid zenith]

imu sama is bewaring of monkey d luffy cause hes the incarnation of joyboy

[fathom matrix]

I don't think Odein wrote any significant details about getting to laughtale or the last island, or where the ponoglyphs are, as Kaido would have just been King of the Pirates already and would take away a lot of the story's mystery

[sand sail]

He wouldn't, he only has one Poneglyph

[limpid zenith]

i think we will see more on this in the next couple chapters, as luffy might question joyboy and we might get answers but idk that sounds too simple

[sand sail]

Everyone knew Big Mom already had one, he can't just take those lol

[fathom matrix]

I just meant an example of Odin didn't wrote down any specific on anything crucial in finding the once piece, as in actual coordinates and such

ALSO I still think it could be funny but a massive shocker, if Buggy was told by Roger about what they discovered

but Roger goes ".....OH, and knowing that you may want to lay low for a while, cause the marines will have your head"

I know it sounds memey, but I am serious and it would fit the one piece style of writing

[wicked wasp]

Momo is joy boy

[misty timber]

Idk but could it be all 9 scabbards will die before the dawn ?

[wicked wasp]

I believe one - three scabbards could die but not all of them

[river plaza]

Luffy swimming with a df

[wicked wasp]

Well he’s unconscious he isn’t doing it on purpose

[river plaza]

The anime op shows Luffy doing something under water then gets back up on the ground again

[wicked wasp]

Oh we are talking about two different things

[modest skiff]

Maybe the voice Momo hears is Joyboy manifesting in his mind, I dunno hmm. Still think the voice is sea kings. Don't think Momo is Joyboy

[rigid wadi]

I have read a theory that Momo is indeed Ancient Weapon Uranus and seems a really fun theory xD

[gusty cobalt]

o.O

[pure raven]

4 would die

[light pond]

This is the most dumb theory i have read anime is not even related to manga and df have always been fixed with its weaknesses

[pure raven]

anime hinted Kanjuro is the traitor even before the manga confirmed it is him so there's some precedence

[light pond]

It was not hinted in the anime the manga already revealed kanjuro was thw traitor that time

Also at what pretense could luffy swim? Cause that is plain stupid since even without df luffy does not know how to swim and then add the df weakness to that swimming is not an option

[river plaza]

Luffy knows how to swim haha but now he can't swim because of his df

[light pond]

He was learning how to swim but he does not fully know how to swim yet and this nonsense of luffy swimming now is plain stupid and dumb

[pure raven]

The rule about DFs that they grant you incredible power yet make you a slave to water, if luffy somehow got past that absolute rule it would be like wtf

[light pond]

And the basis of this is even dumber just from what an aesthetic of an anime opening? There has been many scenes in the anime opening that has never even come true

[pure raven]

Episode 892 which had the Opening 22 and the hint that Kanjuro was a traitor aired around July 2019. Chapter 974, where Kanjuro admitted to being the traitor, wasn't until March 2020. So yes, the anime opening & anime staff probably knows Oda's intention in advanced

[light pond]

Over the top is not even the opening that hinted kanjuro is the traitor it was dreamin' on

I might give it to you if you said that over the top hinted kyoshiro is denjiro since it was heavily hinted there but there is no scene hinting kanjuro as the traitor in over the top

[pure raven]

It was a talking point in /r/OnePiece, only Kanjuro had his back to the audience and it was enough for people to speculate that the anime staff had info on Oda's plans. Plus all the other clues in manga

At least only Kanjuro among the scabbards

[light pond]

Denjiro also is not facing front

[pure raven]

Even so if luffy can get past the DFs weakness it will be a wtf wtf moment, plus he is knocked out drowning lol he ain’t gonna move anything

And Denjiro is not yet confirmed to be a scabbard

[light pond]

And what evidence do u have that luffy will swim?

Inuarashi is also not facing forward in over the top

[pure raven]

Only speculated. Fact is only Kanjuro is among the known Scabbards that wasn't facing the front. But we're getting off topic, the topic was that the anime opening confirms that it was hinted and it's staff knows things in advanced that aren't even official in the manga.

Denjiro is a scab tho

I don't know how Luffy would get out of the ocean but my reply was that the anime Opening can hint and can be related to the manga which you said wasn't.

[light pond]

I am saying that one piece opening showing luffy underwater does not hint of him swimming!!!

I didnt say that anime opening didnt hint other stuff before

Cause your theorizing that Luffy will swim out of the sea because of an anime opening aesthetic?! Cause that is stupid

Luffy will get out of the water some way or another but him swimming his way out is not gonna happen

[dusk willow]

SPOILERS!!!!!!!! so when kaido says to luffy thathe cant even be joyboy, do you think joyboy is a person or a title?

[mild kite]

Joyboy is a person

[pseudo citrus]

do we have any theories on what the 9 shadows will be if the scabbards start dying? will it be another group entirely i.e. strawhats or something, or the remaining akazaya + a few add-ins?

[queen arrow]

i really don't get why people keep bringing the 9 shadows thing

[bronze spoke]

Can anyone help me tell why kaido shud be knowing about joyboy and stuffs that is probably only laugh tale knowledge? Could it be he kinda read oden's journal that yamato always carried around himself?

[queen arrow]

it's not like the prophecy was an actual prophecy

[queen arrow]

we learned about joy boy before going to laugh tale so who knows maybe he read it on his poneglyph or heard about it

[bronze spoke]

But we learned of joyboy as a person and not as reincarnation.

[queen arrow]

wasn't the stuff about him coming back also at FMI?

because of Noah and stuff

[bronze spoke]

No I think. It was never stated he wud come back. It only said that to repair Noah they will need some existence's help. I could be wrong tho.

Joyboy's apology was for to be unable to keep his promise. Later was just theory that Luffy wud be the joyboy to complete his promise

So I don't think there was any hint of joyboy to be a reincarnation of new generation (20 years after Roger found one piece) or passing of wills

Atleast not what kaido cud get his hands on. Unless he reads the journal. But I doubt yamato wud have not secured it. Maybe he had a chat with Roger? Or Oden told him that joyboy's reincarnation after 20 years will come and defeat him (?) Like before dying.

[pure raven]

Afaik, it isn't confirmed if Kaido has read Oden's journal. The speculation could be he know some of it from his Rock pirate days. There's probably a flashback coming that'll clear it up

[bronze spoke]

This hypes me up for Kaido's flashback more 😂

Imagine after this despair filled chapter, what comes next is flashback and hence more waiting

[sonic canyon]

Guys what If Roger used future sight when he about to be executed and knew the guy was gonna ask him the quistion about the one piece

[bronze spoke]

Well it is a question someone or other wud have asked eventually. Everyone wants treasure afterall.

[sonic canyon]

He might have just said it himself

[bronze spoke]

Lol yea.. like any last words for example. Not like anyone could stop him there.

[sonic canyon]

"You guys can have my treasure goodbye now"

[pure raven]

I think Roger, once he reach Laugh Tale, knew he needed to spark a pirate age. As asked by Usopp at around chapter 500+. And Rayleigh replied only Roger would know that

The world they lived in didn't have enough allies to overthrow the world government

[sonic canyon]

Atleast he enjoyed life before doing a Chad sacrifice

[feral pike]

Luffy will likely be saved by bege

or zunesha (talking to momonosuke) will save luffy

[modest skiff]

Yeah Kaido has a glyph that we haven’t seen yet right? So it could be that he knows something specific about joy boy

[drowsy marsh]

Luffy couldn't swim before he got a devil fruit. I doubt He could swim if the swim restiction were to be removed

[ancient vault]

Rocks and poneglyphs

[pure raven]

I might remember things wrong, but I believe oden said something in the lines of joyboy will transcend time (時間を超える) when he tells Toki to go the future to see how the fate of Wano turns out.
I also wonder how Kaido knows about joyboy, maybe he’s into Roger’s plan too, to guide the next generation towards laughtale.

[modest skiff]

In my wild dreams, something happens that changes Kaido’s mind to think Luffy is Joyboy and he joins the fleet

Everyone is like “who will join the straw hats” and it’s the beasts pirates 😄

[light pond]

Joyboy is a person just like how posiedon was a mermaid princess from long ago but shirahoshi inherited the name and powers too

[bronze spoke]

He can't read poneglyphs. So maybe xebec cud have indeed told him something. Or its oden who before dying said to kaido that he isn't the joyboy everyone is waiting for .. or something along the lines.

[light pond]

We dont know if rocks cant read poneglyphs

[bronze spoke]

Kaido can't. We know that. So if rocks can and he said something, that is indeed possible

[modest skiff]

Can’t help but feel like there’s a connection between the D smile and the Joy in Joyboy

[distant crown]

Yes

[visual plinth]

1. Bege doesn't have any reason to come to Wano
2. I also don't think it's zunesha if it was everyone would already know considering how big he is and again why would he be in wano? there's also the fact that momo didn't recognise the voice he said "who are you?" he should be able to recognise it after what happened in zou. I don't see anything that's pointing towards it being zunesha

[ancient vault]

I mean I think he still has interest in taking down a yonko

[bronze spoke]

One theory I heard was that seakings needs wano's help to rebuild Noah. So it could be possible seakings are on their way and finally beneath wano bringing Noah with them. So maybe momo heard them.

[ancient vault]

so franky rebuilds noah or what

[bronze spoke]

Not franky. But wano craftsman maybe.

[ancient vault]

Kozuki are dead theyre not building shit

Maybe the carpenter whatever his name was but hes a carpenter not a shipwright

[bronze spoke]

Franky will learn a thing or two watching them. Maybe wano have good craftsman legacy to build things, hence the reason they could build minute stuffs of sea prism stones too.

[ancient vault]

probably would need help from franky

[visual plinth]

Doesn't mean he will come to wano NOW we just had him in WCI and from the cover story he's probably somewhere around Dressrosa

[ancient vault]

Honestly that'd be pretty funny considering the carpenter kicked out franky and now roles reversed carpenter has to learn from franky lmao

[ancient vault]

yeah hes not anywhere near. Normal ship route would take him weeks

[cedar sinew]

they mentioned a different clan (?) building the Noah in the first place during FMI. Don't think they're the kozukis

because the kozuki already played a role in building poneglyphs

[bronze spoke]

Maybe another reclusive clans in wano? Or maybe this is saved for elbaf. They are huge and maybe they have some legacies too.

[ancient vault]

Another clan?

Was it a wano clan? Or is it unknown

[cedar sinew]

yeah I actually kinda like that. We need more exposition on Elbaf other than the giant pirates

it was unknown

just said "another clan" or "a different clan" iirc

the seakings and neptune also say later that at a promised time, a clan will come to fix the Noah

[bronze spoke]

The thing was that seakings were doubtful if that clan would help or not considering the times. This difficulty could be coz they probably a closed country .. or they have partially allied with WG (given D clans are fighting against WG)

Hence wano and elbaf is like within the scenario.

[cedar sinew]

were they doubtful?

Seakings randomly appearing at Wano to get the Noah fixed without there being any hints of a group/clan that could do that at Wano is weird.

Also, fixing up the Wano would be the impetus for the eventual FMI liberation and Luffy destroying FMI prophecy

both of which I don't think would fit in the current storyline

[pure raven]

act 3 will be over in a week or 2

the arc feels like it's moving towards the end

like luffys big comeback is coming.. the energy just feels like that right now, same as it's felt in pretty much ever other arc right before luffy punches someone in the face

have a feeling act 3 will end with kinemon's death

kinemon will probably say something like " you have to be strong and lead our people"

wouldn't be surprised if momo is the one that stops onig from falling

[reef forum]

kaido had also been told by roger about the secrets revealed at laugh tale. that's why he thought that luffy would never be joy boy(or whatever else i don't really remember lol)

[haughty tide]

luffy will not make a comback and he will not win the battle

neither will the straw hat crew they all will leave wano

[cyan berry]

@haughty tide please refer to the channel topic here and keep things serious

Insisting that this is serious will only end up worse for you

[feral pike]

maybe shanks told kaido when they met

[keen kelp]

What was Kaido’s Joyboy reference?

[ancient vault]

I think its related to this

[mystic crown]

Some translations say laugh instesd of smile

[sturdy hound]

same same

[ancient vault]

Same thing. VIZ tl makes the dialogue a bit weird here tho. I like TCB here more

[mystic crown]

Laughings very importtant because of laugh tale and roger laughing

[ancient vault]

So is smiling

[sturdy hound]

i get what monk is saying

the kanji is mainly for laugh tbf

[ancient vault]

Well still. Its in my eyes related to joyboy

[sturdy hound]

ye fair assumption

[mystic crown]

Just wanted to highlight the connection.

[ancient vault]

You can simply connect smile to smiling in drsth situations

@sturdy hound can you check the raws for this btw

[sturdy hound]

the gomu gomu stuff?

[ancient vault]

Yeah the way its written. Does it hint at a new special attack?

Or just generic shit talk

[sturdy hound]

there's not much to tell there. just seems like "gomu gomu my ass" sorta thing

[ancient vault]

Alright

[pure raven]

Not really, more to D than joyboy directly

Its a traid every D has

[waxen light]

Yeah it just seemed he was mocking him cause he couldn't finish. I don't know why people think it was a new attack. Not like Kaido knows his every move.

[tribal latch]

What yall think about sanji being uranus theory

[pure raven]

To me it feels like thats a sign of respect

He actually remembers what the name of is his attack was

Like ,, what was the name again.. gomu gomu no... :

The way he said it seemd like something positive to me

Since the beginning of their interaction it feels like kaido goes from 0 respect to actually showing respect to luffy

[tribal latch]

Also i heavily believe dragon was once a formal admiral

[sturdy hound]

i can see why people think it's a new attack or such. and while it's plausible, i just dont see it being the case

[tribal latch]

@pure raven idk man someone made me think that he is uranus with stuff that totally makes sense

[pure raven]

Pls explain

[tribal latch]

I can send the site if you want

[pure raven]

Yell yea

[tribal latch]

https://pernanegra.tumblr.com/post/155817318443 just read a bit of it especially the end tho

[ancient vault]

https://pernanegra.tumblr.com/post/155817318443

[tribal latch]

Yes

[ancient vault]

🤨

[tribal latch]

What is there to be confused about

[pure raven]

thats definitly intressting, i hope it wont be him but it do be having good points

[ancient vault]

Yeah it has good points, well researched but I just can't see him being Uranus. I think the stuff he found rather supports the theory that Sanji will turn into "Lucifer" or well a flaming devil

[tribal latch]

For sure

[tribal latch]

I agree but its a theory to think about tho

[tribal latch]

Although what could he possibly light on fire to boost him even more or just make his heat more increased possibly

[ancient vault]

Himself

He has light himself on fire twice now. Thriller bark and Fishman Island. Both times his transformation was directed to anger

[tribal latch]

Although how does that really boost anything I understand legs cause he uses that primarily to fight

Maybe defense but attacking wise I don’t see it

[ancient vault]

Flaming powers. Well i also think he will get additional powers

[tribal latch]

What type i feel like he’s missing a lot it’s like luffy has inf ways he could possibly gets power-ups so as zoro with swords i want to know what could possibly happen

[pure raven]

i think he will just get suit upgrades and obv haki, i suspect he got conqueres haki and that usoop will get it too

[tribal latch]

But then i feel like he’d be too reliant on using the suit at all times and not something i’d want to see he has strength outside of using that so i feel he needs some other upgrade it’d be like nami still using that weapon but she has a whole diff power she could do something with.

[dark palm]

what

[weak jetty]

makes sense because ryuunosuke got them there similar to how merry got them there...