manga-theories

[grizzled fog]

The official makes it seem like blackbeard thought he was worth less than 30m, but the fan scan I saw gave the impression BB knew he was stronger than that based on his haki

[pastel summit]

the raws do say haki, yeah.

[nimble hinge]

It was especially noteworthy back when that chapter first released, because that entire dialogue was written in a Strange way

[nimble hinge]

That's why people picked up on the word haki and didn't translate it literally, but kept it as haki

[pastel summit]

覇気

[nimble hinge]

Because it wasn't written in hiragana, I think

[pastel summit]

the scans I have suck, but it's the same kanji.

[nimble hinge]

Yeah, it's the only word written in kanji

[grizzled fog]

Shame it wasn’t translated as such in the official

[nimble hinge]

Rest is hiragana

[pastel summit]

because haki CAN be translated. It wasn't made clear it was some concept oda was going for until much later.

specifically the shanks scene on WB's ship.

[nimble hinge]

It can, but I meant that because it wasn't written in the traditional way, it remained as haki rather than being translated into will or ambition/disposition

[dusty galleon]

Haki from when Rayleigh explains it

[pastel summit]

yes, my point was that the first time it was used, the BB scene I just posted, it wasn't clear, so it wasn't left untranslated.

[dusty galleon]

Does look like the same kanji

[nimble hinge]

Officially yeah. Lots of other translations opted for spirit and chi

[pastel summit]

it's only afterwards where it became clear when translators began to recognise it as a specific concept oda was going for.

[dusty galleon]

So what is bb actually saying there?

If you figure in the haki part?

[grizzled fog]

Pretty much that he thought his haki was too strong for a 30m bounty

[pastel summit]

He was surprised at how low 30m was for someone with his "haki", but was also surprised because he didn't expect him to actually have 100m.

[dusty galleon]

Ah alright

Makes sense BB would pick it up having been around Haki beasts for most of his life

[pastel summit]

the fact that luffy wasn't able to materialize it any way though, it's pretty easy to get the impression he was talking literally about his ambition. especially with the bar scene.

[junior field]

do BB have CoC?

[pastel summit]

oda could've been being intentionally ambiguous, or it could be the classic oda retcon.

[grizzled fog]

Not that we know of

[dusty galleon]

Yeah it seems a stupid mistake in hindsight but actually using haki or chi or whatever must have sounded a bit foolish or exaggerated at that point

Since haki as such wasn't even a concept

[grizzled fog]

Interesting that BB could sense his strength without luffy himswlf using haki, but I guess that’s consistent with obs haki allowing you to get a general idea of a person’s strength

[pastel summit]

yeah. I'll remain steadfast in saying it only really became a concept with Shanks on WB's ship.

I don't anything before that should really be considered.

[grizzled fog]

Define concept in this context?

[pastel summit]

Like, a specific powerset/ability. Something unique to OP.

[nimble hinge]

Think they mean finalized as a concept. Because evidently it did exist prior that that moment as a concept

[dusty galleon]

Prior to Jaya?

[nimble hinge]

Prior to shanks vs wb

[dusty galleon]

You mean when Zoro cut steel?

[grizzled fog]

I’d agree with the idea that it was a rough idea at the time, the overall concept was mostly there but I think oda had a good vision for it in Shanks and WB’s scene

[dense wing]

Fully convinced Haki was mainly supposed to be focused around CoC and those with strong wills, with CoO just something anyone can do, whilst CoA was created just as a logia counter

[cedar sinew]

yeah I fully believe that as well Eman

with it being finalized and pieced together during the timeskip

[nimble hinge]

Isn't that almost exactly what it is now?

[pastel summit]

I think he had a basic vision of it at Shanks vs WB. It's obviously evolved over time, so I don't think Oda really had a full notion of what it'd be. 'cause it's referred to as haki early on, not specifically armament haki or conqueror's haki. conqueror's haki is mentioned in Amazon Lily, but they also say "haki" is what they use for their weapons, not specifically armament haki.

[cedar sinew]

haki is clearly outlined as three separate branches as of now

back then it was more of only coc

Shanks vs WB, Shanks and the Seaking, Luffy's willpower and the foreshadowings, all of the notable events point towards CoC

[pastel summit]

no, because rayleigh says haki is something that can be used by ANYONE. Conqueror's is the only one that specific people can use. It's not even really defined how "will" ties into the strength of it all, it seems to be more tied to the user's actual strength.

lord of the coast I think was more just intimidation. just shanks being scary so it ran away after realizing it pissed off a scary dude.

[nimble hinge]

I don't see the contradiction between that and what he said though?

He believes it was initially born as three individual ideas. The main one, CoC and strong wills. CoO which anyone can use, CoA to counter logias. All those things are still true

[cedar sinew]

I feel that intimidation is just inherently linked with CoC, same thing with emotions and CoO. So much so that they can be attributed to eachother

[pastel summit]

Oh. ye. It was. It was never really cohesive until MF/timeskip.

strong disagree. People can be intimidating without needing CoC, and CoC isn't exactly intimidation. It's overwhelming people to the point where they can't handle it and get knocked out.

[gloomy canyon]

Tbh I think what Shanks did to the lord of the coast is similar to what Luffy did to Hihimaru at the beginning of Wano

[cedar sinew]

You dont have to always knock them out. People with wills strong enough will resist it but still feel the effects of the user's will. Not saying that all intimidations are CoC, but that Shanks in chapter 1 is pretty close to it and may have very well served as a starting point of Oda's CoC outline later on as it's pretty clear that CoC is the only form of haki that's been shown extensively throughout even pre ts in comparison to the other two.

[pastel summit]

they feel the effects, but it's not like they get scared? Idk. That's never happened before. It's more shock at it being used, and confusion over what happened. Even for the people who don't get knocked out, it's less of an intimidation imo

[dusty galleon]

Besides CoC is also specifically used to tame beasts as well, which is what shanks does here

Luffy did that with Duval's bison ( or was it bull? ) And then again with the Ucy and again in Wano with komachiyo and hihimaru

Damn why do I remember so many animal names

[grizzled fog]

Surume too

[cedar sinew]

Yeah I think CoC on beasts and humans are slightly different, but they both have the same notion of imposing your will over their own. And it's a pretty recurring thing with Luffy so I mainly attribute it to CoC, but I can sorta understand if you dont buy it

[dusty galleon]

Wasn't surume just punched into submission?

[grizzled fog]

Maybe, idr

[dusty galleon]

I seem to remember Luffy Zoro Sanji going out in those mini bubbles

To fight him
And one of them bursting their bubbles

Maybe that was anime filler idr exactly

[grizzled fog]

Nah u right

[pure raven]

there should be a manga spinoff where kaido plays baseball

maybe we'll see that as a flashback

he was an baseball player which is why he carries the club around and he retired and became an alcoholic... i'm calling it

[cedar sinew]

serious theories only please 🙂 @pure raven

[waxen light]

Are these the best scans available?

[dusty galleon]

Is this any better?

Tho this is only the specific dialogue box

[waxen light]

Oh I wasn't refuting it or anything. I was just wondering about the scan quality.

[dusty galleon]

Maybe ask Mip? He posts raws sometimes that look pretty decent

[dusty galleon]

Check #also-manga

[pastel summit]

probably not, but since they're old chapters, it's harder to find more HQ scans. especially raws.

[waxen light]

Yeah, I was wondering if all the old chapters raws were low quality or not and if it was worth buying them myself and uploading them. They're super cheap at a JP bookstore near me.

[sturdy hound]

how cheap

[waxen light]

4.99

[sturdy hound]

so msrp

[waxen light]

Yeah, I guess. Seems cheapo to me.

[sturdy hound]

ye jp vols are cheaper

they might actually be even 4$ in japan

if you ever buy them tho, make sure to not get the brown paper vols

thinner low quality brown paper

[waxen light]

Do they have different covers?

[sturdy hound]

nah

basically identical

[waxen light]

Oh okay, so I have to inspect them

[sturdy hound]

bring a reference with you if you can

[pure raven]

So i read many thories above mentoning about haki stored in enma (which aint the case as per vivre card )

So question Can HAKI be STORED IN ANY OBJECT ?
As i havent seen it before or dont remember it ever being mentioned

If there are any mentions pls do post .

[amber oar]

Kuja arrows

though that's likely short term

[cyan berry]

i assume it only works for Kuja arrows because they make direct contact with the arrows so they are able to coat them

[thick sky]

How does Izo coat his bullets? He does that, right?

[visual merlin]

Either by coating the whole gun, or he could coat the bullets then shoot them, probably the former I'd say

[thick sky]

How difficult wwould that be? And would a logia survive a haki bullet headshot?

[visual merlin]

it shouldn't be any more difficult than coating any other weapon, and yea a logia should die from a haki bullet through their head

[weak arrow]

Probably the same as the kuja coating their arrows. And i mean, it probably just depends on the character if they die

[thick sky]

Yeah if it wasn't that difficult, why didn't we come across any one other than Izo?

[weak arrow]

Not relevant enough. I mean 99% of the world dont know armament haki

[thick sky]

Those many navy swordsman who could use haki in dressrosa would have be better off with guns and bullets.

[weak arrow]

Probably only Maynard, Bastille, and Fuji could use haki in dressrosa

[lunar shell]

Sad

[thick sky]

No many guys were uusing it to try to halt birdcage?

Or was it a animeonly stuff?

[visual merlin]

we don't see many strong gun users

and people like benn and yasopp have yet to fight

[weak arrow]

pretty sure it was anime only

Zoro, kinemon, and kanjuro hakified to stop it and maybe fuji

[thick sky]

Ok then it explains stuff

[visual merlin]

ye fuji too

[lunar shell]

In shanks crew they seem prolific

[night jewel]

fuji told non haki users to stay away

[thick sky]

Anyway I guess I should check. Which chapter was that Arsal? If you remember.

[night jewel]

and later, some other marines helped him out against the birdcage, so it wasnt just anime only

let me check again, one sec

oh wasn't fuji, but this guy

[weak arrow]

Zoro giving us fans a voice

[night jewel]

the ones who are moving i assume are the non haki users, the ones who are staying can use haki

[thick sky]

So if coating bullets was easy as coating swords, aren't those soldiers better off with guns?

[visual merlin]

nah

they are better with swords

it's their weapon of choice

[night jewel]

some of them do have guns there, so some do think they are ok with using guns to stop birdcage too. but yea, its just their choice really

[lunar shell]

How would gun be usefull here. You need a constant push

[dusty galleon]

You use it Beckman style

[lunar shell]

In that case ok ^^

[pure raven]

Ponegylphs are most likely stored with haki because they have a voice that people can hear

Or at least the process of crafting them leaves haki in them

[hollow grotto]

Zoro's words might be so shocking to them because you could apply what he says on the left to Kaido. It may not be intentional but it's a cool line for him of all people to say to two scabbards.

[hardy iron]

When will sanji enter the fight 😖

(sad sanji fan noises)

[high portal]

Y’all think onigashima should be it’s own separate arc? Like Water7 and Enies Lobby, or Impel Down and Marineford?

[weak arrow]

no, but an arbitrary decision like that doesnt really matter in the long run

[gloomy canyon]

They went to water 7, shit happened, Robin got taken away by cp9, objective changed

boom we go to enies lobby

so it makes more sense that they are separate arcs

Whereas Wano has been the same objective the entire arc

Same characters, same buildup, same goal

[high portal]

I just feel like if Yamato is qualified to be straw hat he should be the center point for an arc, since we’ve seen Yamato only in onigashima and the objectives have kinda shifted from wano to onigashima (yes both places have their own common goal but I feel like the wano portion was more so planning and executing the raid while onigashima was the execution) kinda like how impel down and marineford had similar goals

I know this isn’t much of a theory but more talking about like meta crap bite me, but I’m just curious ok

[pure raven]

I just noticed if that in one if the panels it has been mentioned that D causes trouble like portags .

So is it possible that portgas could be one of the familiy from kingdom before 800 years ?
And also law mentions that water is also his secret family name together with D

And so both portgas and water are some kind of family name
Who supported the ones with D ?

And GOl D roger after finding the history of blank centuary knew this so he searched someone with these names to have a child?

And those who inherits other will

It is said that luffy inherited rogers will

Can we assume that law inherited ace's will as both ace and law wanted to die and belived that tgere existenece have no meaning but both found someone and smth which gave them the reason to live

[pure raven]

No.

[dense wing]

@pure raven Since the channel is for actual discourse on One Piece theories I would refrain from just saying no without anything else

[pure raven]

It's profoundly incorrect

[lunar shell]

I agree that "No." is the only answer here

[dense wing]

You’re free to discuss why it’s wrong

[pure raven]

It refutes itself tbh

[bitter agate]

when hes not a million times weaker than the duo (luffy & zoro)

[pure raven]

So is it possible that portgas could be one of the familiy from kingdom before 800 years ?
Yes, the D. name has been secretly inherited throughout world history.
Who supported the ones with D ?
They were pervasive throughout world history. Any number of answers is probably right.
Can we assume that law inherited ace's will as both ace and law wanted to die and belived that tgere existenece have no meaning but both found someone and smth which gave them the reason to live
No

[cyan berry]

please refer to this channel's topic and keep the memes out of it

[pure raven]

So in summary "No."

[thick sky]

Yeah, there was nothing of conclusive nature in that theory imo

[bitter agate]

alr i got u fam

[dense wing]

The idea is to just add a little backing to when you think something is wrong

Doesn’t have to be paragraphs but just pointing out an inconsistency is fine

Just not to sound rude and dismissive

[lunar shell]

You do with such a name

[thick sky]

To what statement was this a response tho? Iam kinda confused

[dense wing]

To lillahk

It’s a good general rule for everyone too

[dusty shadow]

What if I say no to you?

damn

Your message just got no'ed

I feel bad now

[thick sky]

Points bro points

[dusty shadow]

Poor lillahk

[edgy knot]

BTW planning to do a little project to when the thousand episode arrives

[thick sky]

Yes......

[edgy knot]

It's gonna be related to the animation of One Piece

So if anyone wants to aid I'll reveal the details when episode 989 arrives so forget it for now

[thick sky]

Ok. You can contact me. I will probably be free

[edgy knot]

I'll tell you more about it when the 989th episode arrives

Thanks

[pure raven]

No it's just that I realised you're a troll so I deleted my message. Have a nice day.

[pure raven]

Is it a theory?

[dusty shadow]

Does a troll correctly predict a major twist in the manga? No

[pure raven]

A broken clock is right twice a day.

[dusty shadow]

depends on the kind of clock

[weak arrow]

@dusty shadow @pure raven That's enough of that

[dusty shadow]

and how it's broken

[pure raven]

Anyway I don't think Law inherited Ace's will

[dusty shadow]

I think I agree. Just like Luffy hasnt inherited Rogers will. Most people fall for that misconception.

[pure raven]

Can you explain why you think Luffy hasn't?

[dusty shadow]

No

[pure raven]

Guys, I have a little weird thing that I've discovered on a chapter, could you tell me what you think about it ?

[dusty shadow]

No

[pure raven]

perfect

[grizzled fog]

Go ahead

[dusty shadow]

But sure

[pure raven]

https://tenor.com/view/luffy-monkey-d-luffy-one-piece-eating-luffy-eating-gif-17648796

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[pure raven]

Get a role so that pics and gifs will embed

yep

What's the theory?

[dusty shadow]

binku so no sake wo...

todoke ni yuku yo...

[vestal bone]

Wowthat is so easy to read

[pure raven]

So not really a theory but a questionning, about the guy that oden quoted on the brink of death,
he was talking about a guy, who needed wano open, after having gone through 800 years,

Everyone think about luffy's will, but.. is the real deal even here ?

(we talk about joyboy apparently but.. it's a little weird, because it's like they are talking about timetravel again, and not some kind of inherited will)

[dusty shadow]

No, Joy boy is 100% tama's tea pot. Personally told by Oda.

[pure raven]

you're a genius

[dusty shadow]

Thank you, most fools dont see my profound intelligence

[pure raven]

I can profoundly relate to your trolling art

no doubt ur smart

[pure raven]

Do you have a chapter where this was said?

yeah I giv u that right away (maybe it was a mistake of translation)

[weak arrow]

Keep the comments serious please.

[thick sky]

Yeah mangatheories is for serious discussions only

[pure raven]

972 page7

[weak arrow]

We know that “joy boy” is alive here and now in the current time, call it a title, inherited will, reincarnation, who knows right now. Shirahoshi is the other important piece of the puzzle. At least to me, it’s got to be Luffy unless Oda is going for some subversion with Usopp or something.

[thick sky]

Usopp?

[pure raven]

elbaf will be his arc

[thick sky]

How would Usopp fit the picture?

[pure raven]

There's no mention of 800 years in that chapter but the official says "long, long ago" that the Kozuki closed the borders

in french, it's not the exact same translation, but there is some mention of 800 too
error of translation ?

[weak arrow]

Just as a subversion type of a reveal. We don’t know exactly what the joyboy role is supposed to play. The obvious answer is it’s Luffy. But obviously some people are gonna think it’s too obvious so Oda does something different

[dusty shadow]

bruh, it says 800 right there

[pure raven]

thanks bro

[thick sky]

Yeah the volume scans says the same

[pure raven]

and the real question is, what is the fucking role of ener ?

[weak arrow]

He doesn’t need a role.

[pure raven]

he has been foreshadowed like hell

[weak arrow]

Just like Kuro, don krieg, etc don’t need one

[pure raven]

We don't know when they closed the borders. We only know that the information passed down was that 800 years from when the information began circulating, that somebody would appear

Yeah but ener is cool

[thick sky]

Well they didn't get a long cover arc

[dusty shadow]

What if this whole Joy boy thing is false hope?

[pure raven]

Guys

[night jewel]

has it really? we can tell that the moon itself is relevant somehow, but enel's future role hasnt been foreshadowed really

[pure raven]

Care to explain why it'd be false?

[dusty shadow]

No

[thick sky]

Well the info that the eneru cover arc gave seems kinda relevant with moons and the races and all

and given how CD wear spacesuit kinda dress

[dusty shadow]

Enel definitely has to come back I feel. He's gotta be on Luffy's side in some fight in the future as a throw back character.

[night jewel]

would you care to elaborate in a serious theories channel please ? 🙂

[night jewel]

yea, the info about the moon is most likely very important, but that doesn't really mean enel himself has to return as well

[zinc iris]

Is it allowed to talk about the latest batch of vivre card info or is it considered spoiler

[weak arrow]

You’re allowed

[thick sky]

Well someonne has to be there to provide info and connect the dots, right?

[pure raven]

I found something interesting also,
all the strawhat stuff that has been going on,
maybe it could be related to the ancient kingdom

(the two cool brothers also had one btw)

[zinc iris]

ok then
as it turned out that Toko was adopted by Yasue, it means that Kuina was the last Shmotsuki

[night jewel]

nope, if the info is included in poneglyphs already then robin can do it

[night jewel]

koushiro is still alive lol

[thick sky]

Yeah that can be the way

[weak arrow]

Koshiro also could have had siblings but obviously unexplored.

[night jewel]

and kouzaburo might have had more children too

[zinc iris]

but is not the most recent that has lived

in terms of family tree is not the one furthermost in the line

[night jewel]

ooh, by last you mean newest

[pure raven]

So the question I have, is do you think the "joy boy" guy, has already appeared ? and if not, what the hell and who the hell could he be ?
One of the crew member ? Or one ennemy ? or a friend ?

[night jewel]

then yea, she would be the "last", atleast as far as we know

[pure raven]

(Koushiro can still have kids)

[thick sky]

Koushiro can still have nephews

[pure raven]

there is actually few chances that it's luffy I think

[visual merlin]

Im pretty sure the consensus people have come to is that Joyboy is luffy

[weak arrow]

Luffy is the most blatant, obvious answer.

[visual merlin]

or like

[pure raven]

yeah but too obvious don't you think ?

[visual merlin]

luffy has joyboys will ig? whatever way you put it

[pure raven]

oda is kind of impredictable

[visual merlin]

Eh, it's too obvious to not be the case

[dusty shadow]

not true

[night jewel]

very very likely to be luffy, and it being predictable doesnt really make it bad lol

[pure raven]

it would be too easy for luffy to be obvious

[night jewel]

or well, more like an unpredictable answer wouldnt be automatically "better"

[pure raven]

yeah but it does not correspond to the philosophy of the writer I think

[visual merlin]

Oda doesn't make everything a twist for the sake of a twist

[night jewel]

^

[visual merlin]

again its pretty much too obvious to not be the case

[dusty shadow]

It wouldnt really be for the sake of a twist though

[night jewel]

One piece can be predictable, some theories that a lot of people believed in came true, could be the case here as well

[obtuse gazelle]

If it’s not Luffy I don’t see the point of all this tale from the start to the end

[pure raven]

What I'm trying to say here, it's that it's not logical for joyboy to be luffy, why ?

because oden was talking about opening wano to the world for the coming of joyboy,
wano is not open, and luffy is trying to open it,

oden would have spoke about someone opening wano otherwise

[dense wing]

Twists just for the sake of twists usually aren’t good, Luffy being the one to inherit Joy Boy’s will makes sense

[pure raven]

They failed to open the borders. Joyboy had to come and do it himself.

[white relic]

have they confirmed if kaido is a fishman yet?

[weak arrow]

no

[night jewel]

no

[pure raven]

they were already knowing at that time that some of the supernovae would come to fight kaido and win
so.. not logical

[white relic]

i bet like 5 dollars he is half fighting fish half human like dellinger

[pure raven]

Guys, can we get more constructive and in-depth answers than "no"?

[dusty shadow]

rich

[pure raven]

Sarcasm is lost on you

[dusty shadow]

No

[night jewel]

why did you post this gif?

[white relic]

cause look at his horns it's just like dellingers

[night jewel]

oh

!horns

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/703457603887300608/unknown.png

[pure raven]

And wtf is weeble ? a trump card ?

[dusty shadow]

OMG, Weeble could be Joy boy?! Na

[pure raven]

No.

heeeelll no

[dusty shadow]

beat you to it

[pure raven]

but weeble has a role to play, it's like the unexcpected overpowered opponent

Weevil's role is completely unknown

[obtuse gazelle]

And here I was wondering who Weeble is omg

[dusty shadow]

and how does a woman like that produce a child like that?

[pure raven]

and this is why it's interesting, those kind of opponents are those who makes the future of one piece difficulty predictible

self-named son of whitebeard, actually, very powerful according to sakazuki (If I'm not wrong)

[white relic]

wait does weevil have whitebeards sword thingy? i forgot

[pure raven]

Looks like Hogback's work met Vinsmoke Judge experiments

[white relic]

bro how tf did he just straight up vandilize one of the strongest if not the strongest of the 4 emporers grave and just get away with it

[pure raven]

But don't you think weeble is one of the proof that maybe, the main opponent of luffy, is not still among us ?

[queen arrow]

it's not the same

[pure raven]

I say, "maybe"

[pure raven]

No.

[obtuse gazelle]

Actually it’s the opposite, the way he’s introduced and how his mom is easily manipulating his decisions, makes it more clear that he might become on Luffy’s side at some point.

[pure raven]

Not sure about that

[zinc iris]

left on his own devices he just wanted to avenge wb

[edgy knot]

Edward Weevil is weird tho

[pure raven]

The fact that he his an idiot powerful and manipulated, is what making him very fearsome

[edgy knot]

He is Whitebeard's son yet he looks like a joke

[pure raven]

yeah, and why ?

[edgy knot]

But I can't judge a book by its cover

[obtuse gazelle]

Nobody’s sure but it’s the most likely prediction that might occur. Especially after the shichibukai ban and how Marco confirmed that WB knew Weevil’s mother

[edgy knot]

Acording to him but that is probably false

[pure raven]

why does he is so powerful, and so ridiculous ?
I genuinly think, that one ridiculous character like that, would be a great tool for drama against straw hats
like, if he "defeats" luffy, in a way, or do someting terribly horrible, it would be like tragedy : the ridiculous one that takes over the entitled ones

[edgy knot]

Yeah maybe

but Luffy has an alliance with Law

[pure raven]

(but he could appear maybe during wano, at critical time, so alliance, would be a little bit ineffective here)
maybe it could be the oponent of zoro in wano, or something else, don't know

[dusty shadow]

His stache is bigger than whitebeard's

[obtuse gazelle]

That’s a boomerang

[pure raven]

but that guy, there is something big coming in with him

[edgy knot]

The legs of Weevil tho

[dusty shadow]

Whitebeards pants are baggy, you cant really compare

[pure raven]

everyone's left ? :B

[edgy knot]

Yeah but damn, his legs are small

[dusty shadow]

Also how many key figures are there of this supposed war?

[edgy knot]

Final war?

[pure raven]

key figures ?

[dense wing]

Final War should have many different parties

[pure raven]

It's going to make Marineford look tame

[dense wing]

Luffy and allies, Revos, grand fleet, former villains like Croc Lucci and Moria

[pure raven]

yeah, some giants
some sky people

[dense wing]

The Admirals and Vice Admirals of course

[pure raven]

there's still the deal with loki

[dusty shadow]

Is this refering to the Worst generation?

[edgy knot]

The Final War is probably Marines and WG vs Pirates and RA

[pure raven]

There's no guarantee that people like Crocodile and Moria will be involved in the final war

[dense wing]

Would make sense that it is yeah

[pure raven]

There's also no guarantee that the war will take place in only one location

[obtuse gazelle]

That’s why I can’t take Oda seriously ... how’s Wano gonna make Marineford look cute

[dense wing]

Mariejois is likely as a central location

[pure raven]

no not wano

[dense wing]

Also that comment didnt refer to Wano I believe

[dusty shadow]

War's not necisserally in Wano

[pure raven]

It could be two all-out battles at Marie Geoise and Laugh Tale/Reverse Mountain

the final war,
don't forget, elbaf is coming

[edgy knot]

@obtuse gazelle how will the final war exceed Marineford, it was huge!

[dusty shadow]

Also how is Vegapunk going to fit in all of this?

[pure raven]

Ancient weapons are gonna add some serious stakes

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Loki

[dense wing]

I doubt there is going to be a final battle at Laugh Tale itself, rather the final war will happen after Luffy finds the One Piece

[obtuse gazelle]

Definitely not in Wano then

[dusty shadow]

and are they still going to collect all the poniglyphs like Robin was planning to?

[pure raven]

they are gonna get robin wrecked

[edgy knot]

Yeah the battle at Wano is probably the last HUGE fight in the Yonko Saga

[obtuse gazelle]

Vegapunk is gonna show up at the end of Wano. Mark my words

[pure raven]

true

[dense wing]

Possibly but I think that the main focus at Laugh Tale is reading out Joy Boy’s Void Century story

[pure raven]

Vegapunk appears then they cut straight to Blackbeard Pirates vs Red Haired Pirates

[dense wing]

We may get him revealed post Wano but I doubt he shows up to the island of Wano itself

[pure raven]

Location: Alabasta

[edgy knot]

Post Wano will probably end like Post Enies Lobby

[dusty shadow]

Yeah which I find annoying. I want them to collect all the ponygliphs instead of just going to Laughtale

[obtuse gazelle]

Stop lilhak that’s quite orgasmic for a chapter

[dusty shadow]

Sexual harrasment

[pure raven]

and where is laughtale ?

[obtuse gazelle]

I meant revealed

[dusty shadow]

Pakistan

[pure raven]

china

[pure raven]

Or even Banaro Island part 2 so that we can mimic Ace vs Teach

[dense wing]

Let’s not meme in the channel please

[edgy knot]

It was already taken by Con D oriano

[dusty shadow]

No it's definitely in Pakistan

[pure raven]

how could u say that
how u dare

[obtuse gazelle]

Cut to BB about to end Shanks while laughing at him with no context

[dusty shadow]

Because if you look at the red ponygliphs and you look at the text. It's clearly in Urdu

[pure raven]

https://tenor.com/view/word-oh-thats-why-realization-wow-gif-10000098

so one piece is all about arabs vs the rest of the world ?

[obtuse gazelle]

That’s not Urdu

Lmao that’s not Arabic either

[dusty shadow]

I think Pakistan is more Indian than Arab but sure

[edgy knot]

As an Arabian I am offended

[obtuse gazelle]

Same

[dusty shadow]

Alabasta was a good arc

[pure raven]

You've been trolling in here for an hour now. Isn't it past your bedtime, @dusty shadow?

[pure raven]

don't worry, we are joking

[edgy knot]

Yeah I know I was also joking

[dusty shadow]

What you call trolling, I call truth. Watch when what I say shows up in One Piece in a few years

[edgy knot]

But I am actually Arabian but nah I ain't mad

[pure raven]

arabians being the ancient kingdom is not cool enough
arabian are not cool enough

[obtuse gazelle]

Let’s bring up the good theories: Imu has the Den Den mushi df !!!

[dense wing]

Except this isn’t a channel for joking and maybe we can go back to actual theory discussion 🙂

[pure raven]

lol

[edgy knot]

Alright bro, so how do you think will Post Wano will end?

[pure raven]

Okay, so maybe we could put some order in here ? Each of us, after each other, we are gonna propose a big theory , or questioning of at least 5 lines

[dense wing]

We may get Marine intervention post-Wano

[dusty shadow]

Luffy finds out about Sabo

[pure raven]

luffy get wrecked by kaido

[edgy knot]

I think there will be a huge fight in the end, like BB vs Ace

[pure raven]

Oda takes inspiration from the real life black ships and the navy intervenes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Ships

[dusty shadow]

Luffy commits suicide thereafter due to major depression

[pure raven]

and also do you heard about the 5 act ?

[obtuse gazelle]

Wano will most likely end up and the SSG truth will come to light with Vegapunk Reveal and King’s race reveal as well

[dense wing]

My current theory is that Smoker shows up to Wano with the SSG in tow

[pure raven]

the structure of wano is actually following the kabuki theater form, it's a fact

[dense wing]

After the raid of course

[pure raven]

Still going

[edgy knot]

Totally Not Mark right? Yeah I heard about JoHaKyu

[pure raven]

we are at act 3, the act 3 apparently always end in tragedy,
what is the tragedy here ?

I think luffy is gonna get wrecked

[pure raven]

This is a big meme right now. People are starting to believe that Wano will only have 3 acts.

no chance

[dense wing]

Wano can have 4 acts

[warm gust]

It could be just 4

[dense wing]

Act 3 ending when we win and Act 4 being epilogue

[dusty shadow]

I'm still waiting on Sanji flooring CP0

[dense wing]

Act 4 is Post-Wano essentially

[edgy knot]

Zoro dies, if that happens the fandom will die

[dense wing]

I believe Sanji fights King

[dusty shadow]

but it would be soo cool if Sanji beats up CP0

[dense wing]

I do wonder what CP0 will do

[pure raven]

Can you not?

[edgy knot]

Then the finale of act 2 will be for nothing

[dusty shadow]

damn

[dense wing]

@pure raven please be serious thank you

[pure raven]

kaido is having a crush, it's a fact

[dusty shadow]

He's not wrong

[pure raven]

thanks bro

[edgy knot]

http://manual.shadowbody.com/jo-ha-kyu/#:~:text=Essentially%2C the Japanese words Jo,end%2Fclimax (synthesis). this is a good article about Johakyu structure

[dusty shadow]

That smile from Kaido wasnt something to be discarded. It was definitely signalling something special.

[dense wing]

Kaido is excited to have a strong opponent to fight

[edgy knot]

You (a character is in a zone of comfort) (Jo): The Thousand Sunny
Need (but they want something) (Jo): Defeat Kaido
Go (they enter an unfamiliar situation) (Ha): Wano
Search (adapt to it) (Ha): They live fake identities in Wano to learn about the country
Find (find what they wanted) (Ha/Kyu): First Kaido battle, training
Take (pay its price) (Kyu): ??

[copper frost]

What

[lone hedge]

ElonTusk#5144 was muted!

[pure raven]

Listen to Eman please

[copper frost]

I don't know what this means at all

[edgy knot]

For clarity’s sake, let’s take Joseph Campbell’s story circle (The Hero’s Journey) as fit into Dan Harmon’s categories as an example, and identify the Jo-Ha-Kyu.²

You (a character is in a zone of comfort) (Jo)
Need (but they want something) (Jo)
Go (they enter an unfamiliar situation) (Ha)
Search (adapt to it) (Ha)
Find (find what they wanted) (Ha/Kyu)
Take (pay its price) (Kyu)
Return (and go back to where they started) (Kyu/New Jo)
Change (now capable of change) (New Jo)
(As you can see, sometimes the placements of the Jo, Ha, and Kyus are up for interpretation. Not to mention there are meta-Jo-Ha-Kyus within each Jo, Ha, or Kyu.) found this in the article

[dusty shadow]

its the structure of the arc

[edgy knot]

Look at New Jo, go back to where they started

I do think Kaido will win

[copper frost]

What

[dense wing]

I believe Luffy will go G4 and Kaido will knock Luffy down, then Yamato stalls Kaido as Luffy recovers

We get the Kaido flashback and then Luffy gets up, goes a new G4 mode, and wins

[copper frost]

The raid won't fail, Kaido will lose

[dense wing]

Raid is not failing yeah

[edgy knot]

I think that Onigashima will be right at the brink of entering the Flower Capital

[copper frost]

Yamato arriving and fighting him would probably trigger his flashback eman

His own son coming in to fight him is going to put him back in his heels

[edgy knot]

Also that Oda showed us Doflamingo's backstory

So hr might also do Kaido

[sacred hawk]

So here's a question

If a female zoan user gets pregnant, but is transformed when she gives birth, what would the baby be?

[willow idol]

some questions are better left unanswered

[warm gust]

Arsal we need a highlighter

[sacred hawk]

Honestly, even if it's ridiculous, I think this counts as serious if it can provoke actual thought.

[night jewel]

well even if by your definition its serious (it is not), we generally don't allow topics like that to be discussed here anyways 🙂

[edgy knot]

Am I the only one who feels that someone important will die in Wano?

Like Zoro important, we are reaching the final saga tho so this might be false

[dense wing]

Considering the stakes we’re in it would be odd to me if no one dies

[edgy knot]

If Zoro dies tho 😩

[night jewel]

well i believe ashura doji has died, and he is plenty important in the arc. besides him, I see someone else die as well

[zinc iris]

nah he didn't die

[gloomy canyon]

I can see Inu dying to jack

After defeating him

[zinc iris]

but he will stay out until the end of the arc

[stuck ice]

u know oda and how he likes to play the long con and not a whole lot has been mentioned about this island other then the fact that they discovered it deserted in the middle of the ocean

[weak arrow]

!punkhazard

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/164971940648321024/795015111625801728/hdgmrphiqgm11.png%3Fwidth%3D1095%26height%3D227

[stuck ice]

its sad that theres a whole command just to destroy that theroy

[pure raven]

Hold on

That command doesn't prevent the idea of Kaido dropping Onigashima in that hole on Punk Hazard

[amber oar]

the fact he would have to transport it over half of the new world maybe does. Not because he can't, but because why the fuck

[pure raven]

Oda is a hack with heights, and a hack with lengths

If Enma can shrink by 50%, so can the New World

[slate zodiac]

Luffy and Blackbeard are a parallel I’m predicting that the way shanks is to Luffy is how rocks is to Blackbeard cuz it’s obvious bb is obsessed with that man

[dense wing]

I think that makes sense, although Whitebeard was the one who took Teach in so idk

Blackbeard seems to idolize Rocks for sure, but not really sure they had a personal connection

[slate zodiac]

I mean since they’re written to be complete opposites I’d say Luffy way to becoming a pirate is more lighthearted and bb could’ve had a negative influence that wasn’t personal from rocks

[obsidian phoenix]

fits like a glove, and every bit as logical

[pure raven]

It would take a loooooooooooong way to go for dropping it into, luffy would have became king of pirate at least twice

If Shanks can intercept Kaido somewhere in the New World, travel to Marineford and shock everyone with how fast he got there, Kaido can take Onigashima to Punk Hazard

[shadow pike]

Do you guys think luffy ever gets a weapon? gord logel, white beard, shanks, and kaido all have them

or do we count his sandals as his weapon

[dense wing]

Nope, Luffy will stay fighting as Luffy with kicks and punches

[slate zodiac]

Nah Luffy is straight hands and it’s gonna stay that way 100%

[weak arrow]

No. He's had this fighting style since forever. Gaining a weapon would only weaken him unless it's like brass knuckles

[dense wing]

Some have theorized a Sun Wukong style staff for like, Gear 5 or something but that’s super unlikely

[weak arrow]

and even then, the knuckles wouldnt stretch, so he couldnt even use it outside of g2

[cedar sinew]

he can morph his body parts so those are basically his "weapons"

[dense wing]

^

His different attacks can be utilized as a weapon

[light blade]

I mostly hear bounce house theories

[night jewel]

He might "get" a weapon but he will prolly not incorporate it in his fighting style. Like for example if he ends up taking nidai with him because he believes its cool, he will still prolly never use it

[light blade]

What kind of weapon would he ever use

[cedar sinew]

none

[night jewel]

nothing

[cedar sinew]

only as accessories

[shadow pike]

i thought maybe there was a chance when he took the nidai, the way roger swings his sword looks awkward so i wondered if roger maybe just carried it around to look cool or something

[cedar sinew]

roger uses it to fight lol

[light blade]

Roger just uses coc coating and two hands.

Two hands are how you're supposed to use a sword. Did you know that?

[cedar sinew]

https://pm1.narvii.com/7413/41a18150fc2dacef46384c8807ce2c5d0e410998r1-1770-1300v2_hq.jpg

[night jewel]

dont think we have ever seen him use his hands to fight, seems like a swordsman purely

[light blade]

I'm talking about hands on weapon

[night jewel]

ah, didnt read your second message

[shadow pike]

didn't he have a gun against shiki as well?

[light blade]

I've only seen a sword, when did he fight Shiki? Maybe I can find it?

I remember Roger, WB, and Shiki running the era after Garp and Roger beat Rocks.

And then Shiki declined after fighting Garp and Sengoku at Marineford--after Roger turned himself in.

[sacred hawk]

I just realized something. Even if Kizaru can move at light speed on paper, he can't actually fight at light speed, because doesn't have the required secondary power needed to pull a quicksilver and no-diff everyone in the verse in an instant

[light blade]

He can indeed, fight at light speed.

[sacred hawk]

On paper

[pure raven]

If he could, he would solo everyone in the verse

[shadow pike]

can you see this?

[pure raven]

He can only move at light speed in straight lines when he converts his entire body to light like with the Mirror move

[sacred hawk]

His fruit lets him technically do that, but it doesn't give him the secondary power needed to make full use of it.

[shadow pike]

thats what i was about to post

[light blade]

You guys never thought, maybe everyone else is just light speed too, or faster?

[cedar sinew]

kizaru doesn't actually go at lightspeed

kizaru's actual mass travelling at light speed would shatter the world

[pure raven]

Kizaru doesn't have mass. He's light

[cedar sinew]

he can manipulate the properties of light, and go at an extremely fast speed, but it's not literally light speed

[sacred hawk]

What I mean is, in order to be able to freely move at light speed, he needs to be able to consciously perceive what's happening in small intervals of time. And that kind of enhanced perception is a secondary power that his fruit is not confirmed to give.

[cedar sinew]

he does when he materializes back

[sand sail]

There's no reason to think he doesn't have that power either, though

[sacred hawk]

So aside from simple "point a to point b" movements, he wouldn't be able to quicksilver the verse. So essentially, he's a lightspeed version of Kuro

[sand sail]

It wouldn't make much sense for a fruit to give an ability that the user then couldn't keep up with

He also seems to do exactly that to that supernova at Sabaody

Where he blinks from the ground to Apoo to Drake, then blows Hawkins away

[sacred hawk]

There actually is. Because all instances where he uses lightspeed are essentially just teleporting to where his opponent is, and then attacking them

[sand sail]

And he's doing it with such speed that Drake can't even follow his movements

There is not, his attacking like that for our benefit on the page doesn't mean he's not flitting around as he's doing it

[cedar sinew]

actually being able to harness light power would give kizaru enough momentum to completely obliterate whatever he "kicks"

[sand sail]

Yeh, the most accurate representation of what should happen every time he kicks is pretty much what happens with his first kick in the series

Where he destroys an entire grove tree

[sacred hawk]

What I mean is that he can't consciously perceive what's happining in that nanosecond interval, so when he actually uses light speed, he's just setting up a simple predefined motion beforehand, and then attacking. For example, his attack against Apoo is just setting up a path, teleporting to where apoo is, and kicking him.

[cedar sinew]

If it were to be really accurate, the entire island should've been instantly vaporized. But I do understand that OP can't always be scientifically accurate, so I choose to believe that Kizaru doesn't literally move at lightspeed as in irl lightspeed

[keen narwhal]

Could it be his whole body doesn't materialize at the speed of light, so only particles of of him are moving

[cedar sinew]

he has two techniques

1. his whole body materializes and he teleports
2. he "kicks" using speed of light

2. is the problem

[sacred hawk]

All I'm saying is that he doesn't have the enhanced perception that would let him do anything complex while moving at lightspeed. Otherwise, you couldn't even react to him with future sight

[sand sail]

But we know he doesn't need a predefined path, he blinks to somewhere different directly after kicking Apoo without needing to create any sort of path or bridge there

And we know that's not true either, because Rayleigh cuts him off after he starts traveling as light

[keen narwhal]

I think he exists in both places at once

[cedar sinew]

agree with this btw, which is another reason why I believe kizaru can't truly move at lightspeed, because his perception just wouldn't be possible

[visual merlin]

I also choose to believe that, the only alternative I can see is that all the characters who can keep up with kizaru's speed or attacks are also around light speed

[sand sail]

That he needs a path to travel is a misconception so far, half the time he's gone somewhere as light he's never needed one

[obtuse gazelle]

Kizaru turns into light

[sand sail]

He just has a move that gives him one

[keen narwhal]

So he would loose all the mater he transferred if interrupted

[sand sail]

That's not how it works thankfully, he was interrupted before

When Rayleigh stops him from getting to the Strawhats at Sabaody

[sacred hawk]

But we know that a large enough speed differential can counter future sight. So Rayleigh probably got him before he actually warped

[cedar sinew]

ye ye. Light's like one of the only logia that's hard to portray since it goes down to the atomic level and Oda still does a good job displaying its properties, but a lot of people don't seem to get that literal mass moving at lightspeed is not possible without mass nuclear fusion.

[keen narwhal]

Yeah he is reacting before he is actually moving just activating his skill

[sacred hawk]

He might not necessarily need to use yata no kagami. If it's just point a to point b, he could probably warp if there's a straight line from him to his destination

[sand sail]

But there's pretty much always going to be a straight line unless he's going through a building for some reason

But yeah, he doesn't need to create a path, he just blinks places

[sand sail]

Rayleigh gets him after he turns into light and begins his traveling, Kizaru stumbles out of the beam

But obviously, he's not going the actual speed of light, there's no future sight possible that would've let Rayleigh intercept him after he changed

[sacred hawk]

What I'm trying to say is this: If you gave Kizaru a marker and told him to write "Hello World" 100 times on a chalkboard in a fraction of a second, he wouldn't be able to do that. That would require him to consciously perceive intervals of time that small, and being able to do that would make him unfightable.

[sand sail]

Or, he can do that, and One Piece just isn't that set in stone physically

Like, someone using Soru would possibly even be able to do that

[sacred hawk]

But soru is just linear movement. And faster-than-eye travel can't really be compared to light speed, since you'd have to be working on nanosecond intervals

[cedar sinew]

basically, picking an arbitrary distance of 30 meters, Kizaru should be able to perceive everything happening at a 1x10^-7 second intervals if he wants to process everything.

I feel that soru is slow enough and not nearly as fast as lightspeed for it to make sense

[sacred hawk]

If it was something like Toriko, where they specifically say something like "It took you 0.5 seconds to prepare for battle. I could have killed you 20 times in that interval", then that'd be better support for that kind of feat

[pure raven]

If Kuzan was really ice, then he could just float in the sea and not sink to the bottom like a rock

[sand sail]

Soru isn't just linear movement, it's not limited in that way

But I used Soru as the example of why we can't use any kind of accurate physical perception to limit Kizaru's

[sacred hawk]

Even then, soru is still several orders of magnitude slower than light speed

[sand sail]

If they can move with Soru with perfect accuracy, I don't see why Kizaru can't take that to an extreme

[pure raven]

Applying real life physics to One Piece yields nothing fruitful

It's literally an isekai. There's nothing to suggest Earth physics apply there

[pure raven]

That's why I say stuff like this

It literally doesn't matter

[sacred hawk]

I guess it's just me, but I don't like the idea of handwaving it as "our physics are different". Part of what wows the audience about a feat of strength is the idea of what it would take for someone to do this in reality.

[pure raven]

How do you compare the impossibility of turning your body into light and turning your body into darkness?

In terms of what it would take for someone in reality to perform either feat

[sacred hawk]

Yeah, but the former case is something that can be compared to our physics

[pure raven]

Turning yourself into light?

[sacred hawk]

Moving at light speed I mean

[pure raven]

You have mass. It's impossible

You're actually more likely to turn into ice than move at light speed

I guess this makes Kizaru more impressive than Aokiji to you?

[sand sail]

This isn't something that can be compared accurately to physics at all is the thing

For example, literally all of Kizaru's attacks should be small nuclear explosions at worst and Beirut all over again at the very least

Just trying to move next to someone should vaporize them instantly, let alone touching them. And people besides Kizaru can apparently perceive him well enough that he can be intercepted or avoided, which should be completely impossible if he were going even just 40% of the actual speed of light

[pure raven]

Hence this

and then we close our eyes when he "kicks" at speed of light

[sacred hawk]

You're misrepresenting my argument. We know that turning into elements is impossible in our world. I'm saying there is appeal in seeing what happens in a world where all this shit is possible in contrast to our world. Seeing a guy turn into fire is cool, because we understand that fire is a powerful force of nature and it's amazing to see it tamed by humans. But even in that fictional world, fire is still fire, no matter what liberties you take with it. So it should still act in a ways that the audience would expect fire to act, at least to some extent.

[pure raven]

Are you dissatisfied with how Ace and Sabo use their fire?

[sacred hawk]

I'm using it as an example

So I'm saying if Oda is going to play up that speed aspect of Kizaru's light, then it's entirely fair to expect it to move like real light in that regard.

[pure raven]

Would you not argue that it's also fair to not expect realism in a story where the human mc is a literal rubber man?

[sacred hawk]

Realism has nothing to do with how much fantasy tropes you have. It means that the characters behave in ways you'd expect for people who were born and raised in that world.

Just because people have superpowers doesn't mean it's not realistic

[pure raven]

but you're also complaining about how realistic Kizaru's powers are

[sacred hawk]

I'm not complaining

[pure raven]

by our standards outside of the story in real life

I'm just struggling to understand the main point you're trying to make

[sacred hawk]

My theory was that Kizaru's devil fruit doesn't give him the secondary powers needed to pull quicksilver shit. We just went on a tangent somehow

[pure raven]

What's quicksilver stuff?

[sacred hawk]

You then said we can't evaluate fictional worlds according to real world physics, I disagreed, and we started talking about that

[young rover]

What if luffys grandma is Gloriosa and she left the island for Garp

[waxen light]

Redacted other series stuff

[unreal sedge]

What if Xebec’s DF was some kind of hypnosis/mind control DF

Which would explain how he was able to get younger/less experienced versions of Yonkous and legendary pirates on his crew

Admittedly this may be lamer than just saying “Xebec was such a badass that he just tamed them all naturally”, but I mean realistically speaking people like Kaidou/Big Mom/Whitebeard aren’t really the type to bend the knee even to stronger people

Not to mention the moral conflict Whitebeard would have with a crew that actively kills everyone in it, considering what he wanted most was a family

Also, if we’re playing parallels with Blackbeard and Xebec, which Oda seems to be doing, Blackbeard gets his raw strength not through necessarily earning it, but with planning and trickery. A hypnosis power would thematically work as a parallel to Blackbird, gaining Yonkou tier strength through a tricky way

[pure raven]

i saw this theory that luffy will use a staff when he awaken's his devil fruit. it was an interesting theory that related the mythology of son wukong to luffy

and that when he awaken's his devil fruit he'll be able to stretch the staff at will

trying to find it, it had a lot of upvotes

[grizzled fog]

He’s been punching and kicking for over a 1000 chapters, using a staff wouldn’t fit his fighting style in the slightest

[pure raven]

yes but that doesn't mean he can't change his fighting style to take advantage of his awakened powers

i mean i doubt it happens, but the theory really connected things well

i can't find it though.. i'd like to reread it..anyone know what i'm talking about

luffy is at a big disadvantage against sword users

if Kaido had a sword instead of a club, luffy would already be dead

lol my daily routine since covid has been to work and smoke a cigar while reading one piece theories... I need to get a life 😄

He's done ok by surviving the world's strongest swordsman at Marineford

I think Luffy will be ok

well i mean he didn't acually fight mihawk though.. he was just kind of running and avoiding

He drew even with Zoro

Who will be the world's strongest swordsman. I think Luffy will be ok

[cedar sinew]

what's the difference between sword and a club

it's just whoever's haki is stronger

[pure raven]

a club smacks you.. a sword cuts you

[cyan berry]

but in the end it doesnt matter

if your haki is strong a sword won't cut you

[pure raven]

lufffy has always had a problem wih swords

[cyan berry]

same with the club

[cedar sinew]

superior haki will negate both

the "problem" was before armament

[pure raven]

cracker almost took his arm off

[cedar sinew]

kaido also one shotted him with his vlub

it's the same thing

[pure raven]

but a sword would have cu him in half if he go hit like that

cut*

[cedar sinew]

would've sliced him probably, and made him bleed, not cut in half. There's no reason to assume that

[pure raven]

i mean look at his battle with katakuri

[cyan berry]

katakuri used a spear, a thrusting weaon

[pure raven]

Slices vs blunt force

he got hit with katakuri's fists over and over again.. but he always made sure to avoid his staff

[cyan berry]

unlike a katana, which is a slashing weapon

[pure raven]

er trident

[cyan berry]

katanas don't usually go through their enemies

especially not in one piece

[pure raven]

Vergo

i mean do you really think zoro would have been injured as bad as he was against mihawk if mihawk was using a blunt weapon.. no.. he was cut and bleeding

[cyan berry]

yes

it would just be a different type of injury

no cuts, but a whole lot of brain trauma and broken bones

[cedar sinew]

cuts and bleeding makes it look worse, but blunt forces are equally as devastating. Your internal organs bleed and your bones get shattered

[visual merlin]

if mihawk was as good with a blunt weapon yea

[pure raven]

well i mean... that's saying that mihawk attack would have been deeper though.. if he did that with his sword zoro would have been in two pieces

[cedar sinew]

also Luffy will probably never have to face 1v1 against a swordsman when zoros there so it doesn't even justify Luffy getting a staff, though idrk what the theory is in the first place

[cyan berry]

oh was that how it started? luffy getting a staff?

[visual merlin]

maybe Shanks Mai

[cyan berry]

i mean even then

[cedar sinew]

yeah that's how it started

[visual merlin]

ah

[cyan berry]

we see time and time again that luffy just sucks with weapons in general

he's better off using his fists at every scenario

[pure raven]

well i read a theory that connected him to son wukong and that when he gets awakened devil fruit he'll be able to stretch his staff

[cyan berry]

He's inspired by Sun Wukong design wise, but that's it

[cedar sinew]

yeah it's just extremely weird to give him a random weapon at the end of the series for that one fight (if he ends up battling Shanks)

[cyan berry]

and even then, it's still a pretty loose similarity

[pure raven]

well i'm not disputing that it's unlikely to happen

but the theory was really good and i've been looking for it but can't find it

[cedar sinew]

he'll be able to stretch his staff but he never had a staff in the first place? I think Ive seen a bunch of variations with Luffy = son wukong awakening theories and most of them fall short in the aspect that you're entirely relying on luffy --> monkey like traits --> a legendary monkey figure, when the basis should be off of his rubber devil fruit (which actually has nothing to do with monkeys)

[pure raven]

i think he had a staff/pipe when he was younger as a kid

[cyan berry]

no, that was just sabo and ace

[pure raven]

no it was all of them

[cedar sinew]

nah he did have it at some parts

but that's a stretch

lmfao

[cyan berry]

guess so

still a giant stretch though

[pure raven]

but that's actually part of the theory, that he'll end up with sabo's pipe

[cedar sinew]

wouldve been more inclined to consider it if he had used it to fight Alvida or something but seeing as it was literally 10+ years ago and the fact that he only really uses it to copy his brothers makes it a stretch

[cyan berry]

you realize that sabo's pipe is just a normal pipe he stole from some house right

the only thing that makes it special is sabo's own haki

[pure raven]

yes

i don't know why that matters though

[cedar sinew]

where did you see this theory

reddit?

[pure raven]

yea but i can't find it

Why

[cedar sinew]

@pure raven keep this channel serious

[cyan berry]

please read the channel topic here

no memes in this channel

[pure raven]

It was serious And i have proof, let me dig out the files

[cedar sinew]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/91t1ku/sun_wukong_awakening/

this sounds very similar but doesn't have any supporting points

[pure raven]

not same thread but similar idea 😄

[cedar sinew]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/h9j3n0/fan_theory_gear_5/

[frozen prairie]

why does roger's crew have a pirate with a horned hat that has the same slice off of it as onigashima

[pure raven]

nah the one i'm talking about went into detail on the mythology of wukong

been looking for like two hours for it

[grizzled fog]

Millet Pine? Think that’s just a coincidence lol

[pure raven]

man i have the worst headache since getting my vaccine yesterday

[dense wing]

@pure raven this channel is only for serious manga theories and discussion

[wicked cairn]

I don't know if this was posted already, or if anyone seen it but I was scrolling through reddit and came across the same "Captain John is Kidd's Dad theory" (Link if you want to read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/n2bpgz/i_might_have_an_idea_on_what_eustass_kidd_took/)

what I found more interesting is one of the comment threads here: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/n2bpgz/i_might_have_an_idea_on_what_eustass_kidd_took/gwiki18?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[pure raven]

so the fact that i made a comment about having a headache means i broke the rules?

[wicked cairn]

the person points out that Kidd was born in the South Blue at the time of the witch hunt, and also his reaction to the marineford war which I haven't noticed

[dense wing]

Yes, this is not the channel for it, but I’m just giving a verbal warning

#off-topic is for off topic stuff

[dusky acorn]

This is a cool theory, if it's true I'm not sure how much of Kid's backstory we'd be getting in Wano though, if at all

We'd only be learning about the Captain John stuff before Kid was born, right

So just general worldbuilding about his supposed father

I like this though. Kid should have some more history with Big Mom if he wants to come close to matching the huge beef Luffy has with Kaido, if these are really our locked in final matchups. The tattered reputation is cool, but I don't think it's enough

[grizzled fog]

Really really hope kid gets a good long flashback

[dusky acorn]

If he is Johns son, Big Mom would already know just by his surname

So she'd probably be the one to reveal it if it does happen, maybe even just in some offhand remark like saying he's a nuisance just like his dad was or whatever lol. (Since Rocks Pirates didn't get along)

I suppose this would be like part 1 of Kids background, if we were to first learn about his dad and he ties into the Rocks FB. Then later on we learn about his actual childhood

[wicked cairn]

i feel like we are getting some of kidd's back story in wano but it will only be a small part of it. it will either be the rise of the kid pirates and the history of kidd and killer, or it will be kidd's connection to john, and a little bit of history about the former rocks pirates

including captain john, wang zhi, and silver axe

[pure raven]

i don't think Kidd is going to take down Big Mom, he'll have some big moments in this arc, but I think Luffy is going to take them both down somehow... I think Kid's destiny is to lose everything.. Killer is going to die and he's going to have to rebuild his crew out of other supernovas

[wicked cairn]

what

his crew will consist of the other supernovas...?

[pure raven]

yes

he'll have to rebuild from the ground up.. you ever notice how general kid's crew is

[grizzled fog]

....why do you think his destiny is to lose? He’s already had horrible luck, you think he’s just gonna keep getting smacked down?

[pure raven]

because he's based on a historical character that had incredibly bad luck and I think Luffy is going to take down all the Yonkos

[grizzled fog]

Also how do you think Luffy is possibly going to bring down BM this arc as well as kaido? Or do you think she’s going down later

[pure raven]

I think Kid will end up fighting Kaido at some point and are going to end up getting switched up by circumstance at some point... I mean it's assumed that Kid's crew is dead

[wicked cairn]

narrative-wise, none of that even makes sense

[vestal isle]

i like the kid is captain john's son theory, it makes a lot of sense

[pure raven]

and Killer is all that is left right?

[wicked cairn]

why would kidd recruit ANY of the other supernovas into his crew

[grizzled fog]

No? Heat and wire are fine

[dusky acorn]

Kid's crew is all in tact, we see them all at the start of the raid heading into Onigashima on the Victoria Punk

[vestal isle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfM5IAHY7Mo

[velvet edge]

Kids crew is alive. We saw them in 1005

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, Morj believes that Kid was originally planned to have many of the Supernova on his crew, but Oda scattered them all out as their own captains when told to spice the arc up

[wicked cairn]

yeah, i hope it is true too, it will let us look into the pirate generation before now but after roger's death

[vestal isle]

I completely disagree with that video but that is the reasoning behind believing Kid's crew will get killed

[dusky acorn]

And the crew he has now is his "prototype" one, with Heat/Killer/Wire

[wicked cairn]

tl;dw im going to watch the video but what is the reasoning?

[dense wing]

Never realized how simplistic the names of Kidd’s crew are

[dusky acorn]

That's also one of Morjs reasons for saying they clearly had less effort put into them

Because they were backup characters Oda had to make afterwards so to speak

It's a weird theory, but not terrible ig

[vestal isle]

basically that kid's crew is too generic and that the supernovas are going to be his real crew, it establishes kid's character growth as a leader (which has to do with his DF of magnetism)

[dusty shadow]

Ah I'm unmuted now. Would be nice if they told me why I was muted

[gloomy canyon]

I actually watched most of this video and disagree with pretty much everything said in it

[dusky acorn]

Oh yeah, Kids fruit is another aspect Morj talked about, how fruits tell a lot more of a story behind the user

And how it will live up to the magnetism Kid has a power by actually bringing people together, hence the Supernova join

[dusty shadow]

Magnets repel other magnets...

Luffy is a magnet

[pure raven]

yea... Kid uses magnetism, I think he'll eventually bring together the left over pieces

[vestal isle]

and also because morj believes that moria explaining how he lost his crew to Kaido is foreshadowing for Kid losing his crew in order to show Luffy the horror of having your crew taken away

[pure raven]

just like he brings together the metal scraps

[dusty shadow]

well actually thats only if the same sides are facing each other

[vestal isle]

I literally found maybe 2 minutes of the 20 believable, the theory is a massive stretch imo

[dusty shadow]

one flips and then joins the other magnet

so we need to know which of Luffy or Kid has more inertia

[dusky acorn]

Well, Kid already technically lost his crew upon losing to Kaido and at the beginning of Wano. If that's the kind of story Oda wanted to tell, I think he already nailed it pretty well

[wicked cairn]

i prefer for all of the supernova captains to be fleshed out more, but if some of them had to merge, i guess the only ones that makes sense are law and luffy and maybe hawkins and kid since hawkins is so neutral?

[vestal isle]

i agree, to return that thematically is overkill and redundant

[dense wing]

I think all the Supernovas stay their own separate parties

Obviously with alliances between them

[pure raven]

i mean kid would have to improve so much to beat big mom

he was kind of worthless in the battle with kaido

[wicked cairn]

kidd just needs CoC to beat big mom

[dense wing]

We haven’t seen much of Kidd’s techniques tbh

At least I hope not

[pure raven]

kid hasn't been practicing ryuo like luffy though

[wicked cairn]

well he already has it but he needs to use it

[pure raven]

the ryuo is what triggered the idea of using CoC

[wicked cairn]

neither as anyone of the other supernovas

[grizzled fog]

Solo, but I don’t think anyone expects him to do it solo, not even luffy can do that. Kid can get a powerup anyway

[pure raven]

I think Kid's only chance is if he awaken's his devil fruit or something

cause i can't see him doing the awakened CoC route, it'd feel like a stretch

er advanced*

[wicked cairn]

it'd also be a stretch for luffy to somehow beat big mom and kaido lol

[grizzled fog]

Why would it feel like a stretch? If he watches big mom use it, especially if he saw shanks use it too

[vestal isle]

if luffy takes down two emperors on the same day im will forfeit the empty throne to him

[pure raven]

like I said, one of the main reasons it triggered for Luffy is he's been developing Ryuo

Kid doesn't know Ryuo

[wicked cairn]

the trigger was luffy getting hit by kaido's club twice

well three times actually

[pure raven]

that allowed him to figure out what to channel.. not how to channel

[grizzled fog]

Luffy was able to learn it easier sure, because he already had the technique down with coA instead of coc. But it’s not like you have to have ryuo to learn advanced coc

[wicked cairn]

it seems big mom only used hardening no ryou to take down Page One (with CoC of course)\

who knows how CoC works? it seems other CoC members other than the yonko knows it can do damage or maybe even weaken, otherwise what is the point of the CoC clashes we get every now and then? Luffy v. Katakuri, Luffy v. Doflamingo

[grizzled fog]

I always thought that was just a flexing thing, but now that there’s a new kind of haki I don’t even know anymore

[pure raven]

well i mean she definitely didn't touch page one, there's definitely space between them

[obtuse gazelle]

Do you guys think that kurozumi old hag has awakened her df ?? Because how is it possible that she touched Momo to mimic his look

[weak arrow]

Momo had been living in wano for more than 5 years. Shouldn’t have been difficult to do it once

One trip to go see grandpa would have been good enough

[grizzled fog]

Could’ve easily disguised herself to get close

[weak arrow]

Well maybe not grandpa, but literally anyone

[obtuse gazelle]

Probably, I’ve been thinking about how she mimicked the whole look not only the face ... thought she might have awakened that df

[weak arrow]

You can make your entire body change

[velvet edge]

Yes that’s just the general effect of the df itself

[weak arrow]

Mr 2 turning into Magellan completely, for example and probably many other examples

[velvet edge]

Even for Bon Clay when he turned to Magellan he was as tall as him

[obtuse gazelle]

Bon clay had to change his outfit when he turned to Magellan

Because when he turned back he was still wearing the jailer outfit

[gloomy canyon]

Are you talking about transforming with the same clothes as well?

[obtuse gazelle]

Yeah the whole look and appearance

[velvet edge]

Hm.. maybe she managed to get some robes. The same way she touched him, it’s possible that she was able to find a similar outfit

I don’t think it changes the users clothes. When bon clay turned back to himself he was still wearing Magellan’s clothes

[novel zephyr]

He always had his own clothes on or clothes he stole

[obtuse gazelle]

Hence why I think that old hag has it awakened because she changes her whole look

[novel zephyr]

same clothes

[outer locust]

Imagine what an awakened clone clone fruit could do

[pure raven]

change objects to animated people ?

[desert hatch]

anyone see the theory that dragon is garps son in law? it was kinda interesting

[maiden ingot]

So dragon takes his wife’s name?

[pure raven]

I wanna know why Dragon was there at Roger's death

[dense wing]

The execution was a huge event

[pure raven]

Idk It seemed like a momentous moment that inspired a lot of the incoming upstarts and future figures but I'd assume there might be some other potential reason?

[dense wing]

Yeah it was just a huge event and inspiring moment

Doubt Dragon had a connection with Roger

[pure raven]

as do i

[pseudo citrus]

just trying to think of the possible connections... garp, dragon's dad, worked together with roger to defeat the rocks pirates

[dense wing]

If Dragon is anything like Luffy he disconnected from Garp and went his own path around that time

But who knows

[pure raven]

just wanted to know if there was greater symbolic meaning to it

Also Oda sort of made it clear he wasn't really ever gonna write about Luffy's mom

[hoary cove]

Could Nami learn armament haki ??

but I think her getting Zeus has a better chance

[grizzled fog]

Armament wouldn’t really help her much, her fighting style isn’t suited to that

Her getting Zeus back is incredibly likely anyway, and way better of a buff

[dusty shadow]

But Nami said it's over with Zeus

[grizzled fog]

Think that was a spur of the moment thing lol, pretty easy to see her getting over it if he saves her

[dusty shadow]

They broke up, I dont know if you've broken up with a girl. But when a girl says it like that...

[junior cape]

Nami has been known to flip positions on a dime, after all.

[dusty shadow]

...you could probably get her back with enough money

[junior cape]

yep

[dusty shadow]

Though Zeus is broke

unless, maybe she can use him to make more Tangerines faster...

Lightning for fertilizer, rain for water...

[dense wing]

Nami is most likely keeping Zeus, he's right there around the corner and BM has Hera now

[dusty shadow]

But what if she just says no, I mean they're on bad terms

[dense wing]

Nami will take Zeus for the buff

[junior cape]

Also, i lowkey think she already uses armament, albeit unconsciously, because she can hurt Luffy with punches, just like Garp. Like I know Oda's done it as a gag a bunch, but the fact remains, she can hurt a rubber man by punching him. HOWEVER, it is more likely that she gets Zeus back, as she said she needed "Stronger lightning"

[dense wing]

That's completely a gag, Nami injuring the crewmates

[dusty shadow]

btw when did they break up?

[dense wing]

No CoA

Nami lost Zeus on Wano

I believe

[dusty shadow]

I dont think so

[dusty shadow]

it was early in Onigashima, do you remember the chapter?

[dense wing]

I don't remember chapter no

[dusty shadow]

actually I would like to see a colage of Nami and the cloud's relationship

[gloomy canyon]

Prometheus catches Nami in ch 982

[pastel summit]

I hope Nami gets prometheus instead of zeus

[gloomy canyon]

And in 985 we see BM back with Zeus and Nami and Carrot injured

[dusty shadow]

end of 988

Zeus broke Nami's heart

[dense wing]

When it comes down to it she'll take him back

[dusty shadow]

Is she really going to be that accepting?

[dense wing]

Most likely

The other chapter she was saying how she needs stronger lightning

[dusty shadow]

You say that like you're Nami, who got her heart broken. Stop treating Zeus like he's some tool, for them they're in a relationship

[dense wing]

Nami 100% treats Zeus like a tool/slave

[dusty shadow]

True

[dense wing]

That was part of the gag

[dusty shadow]

but there is something inside Nami, that sees him as more than just... a cloud

But Mama being on Tama's side, Zeus might finally might not be conflicted anymore. But Nami could reject him, then the gag would be that the cloud never catches a break

[pure raven]

Zeus dies

[dusty shadow]

😦

[pure raven]

redemption arc we never knew we needed

[proper crown]

Y'all think Enel is coming back

[dusty shadow]

Tbf, I agree. Backstabbing cloud chasing cloud deserves to die

[proper crown]

There is a man from Wano's backstory with the same long earlopes as Enel

[dense wing]

Possibly

Nah I don't think who you're talking about was Enel

[proper crown]

Yeah but he's the only other one with long earlobes so probably from the main tribe

[dusty shadow]

I think it's more likely it's Orochi's subordinate

[proper crown]

the same tribe*

[dense wing]

Not sure if there's a long earlobe tribe in One Piece but who knows

[pure raven]

I was joking; I'm not expecting much

[keen portal]

Umm enel is a birkan. A sky race.

That Wano guy, Fukurokuju, is a Wano human.

[dusty shadow]

*whispers Be careful, jokes around here can get you in trouble

[dense wing]

They can, and we should focus on serious theory discussion

[dusty shadow]

*cough cough

Yes yes very serious

[proper crown]

Im thinking a space tribe of some sort

[dusty shadow]

Sky race is not human?

[gloomy canyon]

no

they originate from the moon

[grizzled fog]

Skypeians are skypeians, not human

[keen portal]

Not entirely. They're supposedly from the moon, and have wings.

[dusty shadow]

Moon people not human?

[gloomy canyon]

I mean

[dusty shadow]

they look pretty human to me. I mean I'm no racist but they look more human than those fishmen

[keen portal]

Enel had wings too, but he ripped them out himself at some point

[pure raven]

This is a writing thing.
They aren't human but they are people.
Human is just a classification of homo sapien
People refers to basically anything that can talk. Jinbei isn't human but he is people.

[gloomy canyon]

They're not human similar to how giants and tontatta are not human ig

[pure raven]

Chopper isn't human but he's also people if that helps your understanding and distinction better

[dusty shadow]

But chopper ate the Human Human no mi

[pure raven]

Also if we're being real; most of the people in one piece legit can't be classified as human just by sheer how outrageous they are in basically every regard

[keen portal]

Among humans there are also a variety of races, long arm long leg, etc

Sky races are more removed tho. They're not umm... Earth humans

[pure raven]

I mean the fact that White Beard is a "normal" human or BM for that matter is uhh yea humans in OP =/= Humans in our world

[dusty shadow]

Either way, is it possible the moon people are somehow related to Vegapunk?

[keen portal]

There's no indication for or against it, as of now. So who knows.

[dusty shadow]

except maybe the advanced tech

[keen portal]

The tech is attributed to vegapunk just being a genius

[dusty shadow]

and that there was a guy on Earth who knew how to work with that tech

[dusty shadow]

No 'genius' lives in a vacuum

Just like Franky

[keen portal]

With what tech? We can't say the tech vegapunk created is related to the moon people's technology at all

[pure raven]

That's implying the world government has reached the moon and hasn't told anybody at all

[dusty shadow]

No, but with advanced tech those two are the only examples I can think of

[dusty shadow]

More like the world government reached out to moon people on earth who knew about ancient tech

[dusty shadow]

and Government has this thing where they dont tell people things

[pure raven]

You could make these claims but this becomes an argument of burden of proof.

You have to give evidence to prove your theory otherwise it fails.

[dusty shadow]

Not really. More like looking at what we have and looking for connections. I like the approach where you have an idea that could work and you try to disprove it

So first is there any other example of advanced tech that isnt Vega Punk or moon people?

[keen portal]

We know next to nothing about the tech of the moon people. Can't even say how "advanced" it is.

Or how much it resembles what Vegapunk creates

[pure raven]

That is quite literally not the basis of how any argument is structured or any point is proven

I could say you are hiding the one piece in your asshole and now you have to disprove me

[dusty shadow]

That's how you do science, you start with a hypothesis and try to disprove it as you cant prove it in science

[pure raven]

The only argument historically that has ever gone that way was about religion and thats cause ppl back in the day would actually kill you if you said “prove your god exists”

[dusty shadow]

Advanced enough to use electricity to power a city of robots

[keen portal]

That's not relatively that advanced

[dusty shadow]

So who else makes robots in One Piece?

[pure raven]

Thats really not what happens. You have a theory then provide evidence that it exists or is applicable. If your theory holds weight then it can be further scrutinized for any potential lapse in logic or reasoning until further perfected. Science didnt start off with “Mitochondria exists now we got to find it.”

[dusty shadow]

No it didnt, but they way it lead up to it was to continually trying to disprove connections people found with the observations they had

[pure raven]

Yes observations that started off with people providing evidence of connection to attempt to prove legitimacy

[dusty shadow]

You look at your options and rule out the ones that dont work with the evidence you have

[dusty shadow]

if you try to look for evidence of your connection. You will definitely find it. Almost always. That's why it's more efficient to find something that will prove your connection wrong.

The theories that last are those that weren't proven wrong

not the ones that are proved. Because in science there is no such thing as proving (proving by providing supporting evidence)

[pastel summit]

this isn't science though. this is arguments about a fictional story.

[dusty shadow]

He's saying that my method is not used by anyone and only people that use it are religious people who want to persecute others

[pure raven]

Your observation is effectively: “These both have tech and therefore must be intermingled” which actually isn’t a reasonable assumption cause it comes from the underlying belief that it is connected.

China had paper and a myriad of other inventions before meeting other groups. This doesn’t prove britain and china are thus interrelated which you are using for your argument of vegapunk and the moon. There isnt evidence

[pure raven]

Because historically it was.

And it is faulty logic

[dusty shadow]

You misrepresent what I say and what I imply

[dusty shadow]

No it's used by the scientific method

Okay, then tell me. Do scientists go out to do experiments to try to prove their theories?

[pure raven]

You state and inply there’s a connection between the moon tech and vegapunk tech. Thus asking for evidence for proof when the burden of proof falls upon you. Then ask us to disprove you when you have to prove a connection to begin with that is more than just “Technology exists so therefore it is connection”

[pure raven]

Yes literally all the time; as we speak

Scientists routinely go to the International space station to literally test experiments of wide varieties and fields. They run experiments and tests to prove it exists or find proof that couldnt otherwise be disputed like steven Hawking with hawking radiation and black holes.

The international space station testing how gravity affects plant growth and development, literally everything is tested all the time. The covid-19 vaccine was made through literal trials and testing after studying it and thus breaking it down

[dusty shadow]

No you're completely wrong. They dont go out to prove their theories because they cant. They find all the ways they can disprove it and thats what they go and try to do

Look up the scientific method, falsification and Carl Popper

[pure raven]

Prove to me your god exists. That one piece isnt hidden inside your asshole or that zuckerberg isnt a lizard man

[dusty shadow]

Is that what I said?

[pure raven]

Its what you imply so disprove me

[pastel summit]

going back to what seems like the start of this, it's possible. There's some things that connect the moon civilization to the ancient kingdom, but we don't know enough about Vegapunk to say anything about what his whole deal is about.

[dusty shadow]

What you're trying to display is not what I'm talking about and you clearly misundertood me completely

[dusty shadow]

Yea, I was trying to look for other people or civilisations with advanced technology. If its more than just those two that lowers the likely hood of those two being connected

[pure raven]

Your stating it is up to everyone to prove a theory you have
I am stating it is up to you to prove your theory right.
You say no it’s not because you believe the nature of science is “here is my theory and now disprove me” rather than “here is my theory and here is my evidence proving me right; look through it to see if it makes sense or if there’s lapse in logic”

[dusty shadow]

No that is not what I said

[pastel summit]

I don't think "advanced tech" is much to go off, because there's AT LEAST 1000 years between the moon civilization and vegapunk.

[pure raven]

That is exactly what you said

And what choc just said is an argument with evidence proving something that contradicts your initial theory

[pastel summit]

and vegapunk's stuff was all self-made. That we know.

[dusty shadow]

Yes true but also there was atleast one person who was alive (relatively recently?) who knows how to work with that tech

[pastel summit]

But there's possibly a connection between the history of karakuri island and the ancient kingdom, which ties back to the moon (this is almost 100% guaranteed)

[dusty shadow]

it is not, why not have a little re read and maybe then you might be able to understand

[dusty shadow]

Yeah I was wondering if theres anything on that island that could discount this theory

[keen portal]

You should also probably elaborate more on what you mean by "related" too.

Vegapunk was born on Karakuri island and he made it that way since.

For connections to then being there, he would have to be indirectly related

As opposed to vegapunk literally descending from the moon

[dusty shadow]

I mean related as in any connection

[dusty shadow]

No thats a hard condition

[keen portal]

Maybe he stumbled on some ancient civilization technology or invention and learned to reverse engineer it.

Vegapunk-ancient kingdom tech ties seem very likely and strong. Now if you wanted to also make ancient kingdom-moon civilization ties, that would be one long but indirect way to connect vegapunk to the moon people and their tech

[pastel summit]

@dusty shadow you mean this? Hmm. possible. I guess there is a connection, yeah. Since the soldiers were made on Karakuri (Machine) Island, and then sent up to the moon. and Vegapunk was born on Karakuri Island. But we don't know if there's a direct connection with Vegapunk himself.

[proper crown]

yall still talking about that lol

[keen portal]

It's possible but it's something we just don't know much about yet

[dusty shadow]

omg I never knew this!

[pastel summit]

yeah

[dusty shadow]

Perhaps the people of Karakuri Island are decendants of those ancient people

[pastel summit]

and even then, we don't know what the connection between the moon people are and the automatons. They seem more to be enemies, since the moon people were attacking the automatons.

[proper crown]

To be honest, there's no way Enel is just gonna be out of the whole anime with no closure. He's for sure gonna come back at some point as an enemy.

No way Oda would just leave him like that

[dusty shadow]

I would say as an ally

[pastel summit]

I'm not too sure what to make of the current moon people that we see in Enel's cover story. People have made connections to the minks because they seem to be able to generate electricity, or they use electricity based weapons, and are also furry.